I wonder if grunts have segregated units based on race the same way the US did before Vietnam, it would explain why we only ever see grunts of one particular race at a time, rather than mixtures of all variations.
This actually does make me feel a lot better about the discrepancy between the different visual styles, I always thought the “new” grunts were a retcon but now that I think about it, it actually makes way more sense that there would just be different looking grunts out there we hadn’t seen before.
It was a retcon, then later on they added a half assed lore reason why they look different. The reason why they went back to normal looking grunts in infinite was because of the back lash lol. Guarantee the race of grunts in 4 and 5 will never be seen again
It doesn’t matter if “it was a retcon”. It’s not a retcon. And no, this isn’t half assed. Half assed would be giving no explanation whatsoever. This is far better than just pretending it didn’t happen.
@@Gameprojordan oh so it’s okay for elites to come in 17 different bright neon colours but not for the grunts to have a slightly different shaped backpack?
It’s the best decision. It allows them to use the classic designs while still keeping reclaimer designs canon so they can be used in other material, like what HW2 did. Maybe someday a mainline Halo game will multiple types of the aliens for different roles or just to increase enemy visual diversity. I’d love to see the reclaimer Jackals return, easily best looking version of them.
Because they kinda slid it in after the fact upon realizing "oh shit people actually care about why these guys look different." Theoretically the same thing applies to the elites even though the arbiter is somehow different too? Same as the flimsy "nanomachines" excuse for chief's armor being different. They could have fleshed it out but instead they went art first, story later for the sake of making "their halo" unique.
The 343 designs being retconned as subspecies is an almost perfect explanation of why the artstyle changed so much. Although it does lead to the confusing implication of Thel 'Vadam somehow just changing phenotypes between 3 and 5
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic but if you aren’t, that’s actually a decent explanation. I’ve never really noticed the drastic difference in his appearance that everyone mentions though.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Kinda sarcastic kinda not, I doubt that if the Arbiter appears again his body being kinda different would be explained as him being mixed, but if it where that would be a fun little character tidbit.
@@Woodyisasexybeast The difference in Arbiter's appearance in 5 isn't super noticeable because his armor covers most of his body, and I think this was intentional, since the most obvious difference is that, beyond his increased body-mass, his mandibles have the more diagonal design you'd see in 4 and 5. This is ironically the most noticeable in his cosmetics for Killer Instinct, where his default look, along with most of his cosmetics give him 4/5's elite head, but his skins based on H2 give him the more traditional ones.
I don’t think “species” is the right term. Subspecies generally can’t interbreed and if they do, their offspring is typically sterile. Grunts don’t seem to have that problem. The 2022 Halo encyclopedia refers to the different versions as “morphological variations” and not “subspecies”. There is a distinct difference. Therefore, these variants are more akin to races or “breeds”.
@@Woodyisasexybeast I’ve not heard of them interbreeding I’ll have to look that up, that being said there are species that can interbreed with other species like cats for instance but I assumed as much because there aren’t any cross breeds in game. I mean if you ask me it’s just kind of a bad excuse from 343 to explain why they changed every single thing in the game.
There aren’t any direct mentions of this, that’s mostly conjecture on my part. It isn’t a lame explanation though. In real life, humans and animals have lots of different morphological variants and appearances. Cats interbreeding aren’t technically different species though, they’re different “breeds”. The term “breed” doesn’t actually fit into any formal taxonomical system and by definition, all house cats are part of the “domestic cat” species. Many animals have vastly different morphologies while still being apart of the same species.
@@olibarrett4283 interbreeding is more like a mule...horse and donkey have a baby. They're usually sterile and if I remember right they're not evenly split between male and female, they're more likely to be one than the other.
@@Woodyisasexybeast let’s not discount the possibility that culture could play a factor in why we only see grunts of one particular variation in the same spot. Perhaps Unggoy are actually huge racists and have a form of segregation in their military, it would explain not only why we only see one type of grunt at a time, but also why we never see evidence of cross breeding or “bi-racial” grunts.
No, Cortana modified his armor using nano bots. A common practice for armor repair during cryo sleep. Not an amazing explanation but that’s the one we got.
@@WoodyisasexybeastExcept for the fact that she said she updated the firmware. Also, if she can modify the armour to that degree, how come she didn't fix the damage on it? Very flimsy explanation, just like 95% of 343's writing.
I never said it was a good explanation. But that’s what we got. She updates the firmware AND modified it in cryo. I didn’t write it, I’m just the messenger.
In my language which is BISAYA (one of the major languages spoken in the Philippines) the word UNGGOY means monkey and the way I see it, they do look like small monkeys 😅
Hunters even more so. The named hunter bosses in halo 5 are Tagalog. Funnily enough, despite their seeming similarities to monkeys, they’re actually hyper evolved crustaceans.
@@Woodyisasexybeast I totally forgot that UNGGOY also means monkey in Tagalog 😅 but yeah, they still look like monkeys specially the way they raise their hands and run away when scared 🤣
No it’s exactly that, a change in art styles. The whole “it’s a different species” was just added in later one as an excuse, the same with “nanobots changing Chief’s armour”, and the brutish looking elites
I love how people complain about 343 changing lore when 343 is the only reason lore exists because Bungie was winging it now until they hired 343 for the lore. Now of course I think the Bungie games played way better but 343 has more continuity as far as I have seen. Just a note this isn't directed at the creater of the video
If you play halo wars 2, amd use The Arbiter as your leader, the suicide grunts use the Halo 4/5 models while the rest of them are classic grunts. Its the only game that has both styles in the same game as far as I'm aware
Like most people I’m not a big fan of how the Grunts look in 4 and 5 (the 4 ones look like Wretches from Gears of War, and the 5 ones are slightly better but are still really weird). But I personally really like their new armor. I think that if it was less overly designed and put in a Bungie styled Grunt you’d have something great (think what Infinite did with the major ranks). I know it’s not canon but I think the design for the CE/2 Grunts could be considered their own subspecies. They have what look like horn spikes on their elbows, clawed toes/fingers, and their skin is a leathery purple/dark blue. Their eyes are also facing forwards and underneath their helmet there’s a preset that has lips (check out Hunterunt’s content. He has lots of videos showing off all these little details in 2). The Halo Legends Grunts that were being repopulated is what I imagine they’d look like with more detail. One thing that I don’t like about the 3/Reach Grunts is how rather than toes they just have nubs. It looks weird and doesn’t make much anatomical sense for their feet to just be stubs.
I think when it comes to the CE/2/3/Reach designs, a lot of the differences are much smaller and could be explained away as different individuals simply having different appearances. If that makes sense. I’m not a fan of the grunts in 4/5 either but I am thankful they actually created an explanation. I wish they would’ve used all variants in Infinite. That would’ve really fit the philosophies of the Banished. I understand designing more models costs more resources but it would’ve been very helpful to drive home the ideals of the Banished. Anyone is welcome, so long as you’re willing to prove yourself.
@@michealjaymurphy That's kinda dumb for hating on them for being a "Challenging enemy" in my opinion you need good enemies designs and unique enemy tactics to appreciate a challenge. A good example is Doom 2016 and Eternal, in that game all enemies have unique designs and different fighting styles. Most people hate the Marauder for being to hard despite very good players knows how rekt them very quickly! Its how build your "gaming skills" For me thats the reason why I love the Skimmishers from halo reach and now I barely realize they return in halo infinite, the skirmishers are enemies that makes you be "aware" of your surrounding and if you don't pay attention to your surroundings they will punish you for letting them flank you. On top of that they encourage you to have good aiming skills and reflex shots! Which why skrimishers have amazing agility and dodging skills.
Subspecies can’t always interbreed though. A lot of the time, their offspring is sterile. The semantics used in the encyclopedia are kind of confusing. They say “morphological variances”. That implies they’re more akin to races than separate subspecies. The term “subspecies” already has sort of a gray definition though so I’m not sure
@@Woodyisasexybeast subspecies literally can interbreed, that's why they're a subspecies and not a separate species. What makes them a subspecies is quite a few differences in the physiology but the allowance of interbreeding, like the quagga and the zebra.
No, subspecies, for the most part, do not interbreed and if they do, their offspring is usually sterile. Mules are an excellent example. Mules are almost always sterile.
Guess the elites are a different story. Still remember arbiter look different in H3 and in H5 he's now one of the new elite subspecies. Is 343 gonna make another retcon that elites can morph at will? Nano machines son?
If so, why morph into one of the most ugliest forms more brutish than anything else. H4&5 had some really bad design choices but people will cope I guess, so... 🤷
halo 4 and 5 are years later so maybe just age and working out, the elites changed the least between games, mainly just size and facial features. nothing too drastic like the grunts or jackals.
@@Woodyisasexybeast excellent. Well done. I love the fact that Bungie and in less measure also 343i have designed an entire universe so detailed and realistic. I cant get tired of Halo even if Im a fan from 23 years straight. Excellently done my friend. You have my like. 👍
Yes! Halo is such a vast and detailed universe. I don’t think I could ever be truly done with the franchise. The characters and world are just too damn good.
Uh, yeah. That’s the entire point. And it’s not a “retcon”. It’s to prevent a retcon. This is the best of both worlds because now both designs are canon. Besides, bungie literally did this first in Reach with Skirmishers
@@Woodyisasexybeast it was a form of recon considering how they went back to the original elites and grunts after their backlash with halo 4 and 5 with infinite, where are those elites anyways, and no it's a horrible excuse considering how they changes arbiter too, you wanna tell me how arbiter change sub species from halo 3 to 4 stop defending 343
I will defend 343 in necessary situations. If he mentioned their inability to develop games, I’d agree. If he mentioned how they’ve lied over the years, I’d agree. But I won’t agree with things that are incorrect. 343 doesn’t retcon story elements (minus the weirdness with the forward unto dawn and an armor design in a cutscene but that was less a retcon and more an inconsistency). I have no issues with holding 343 accountable for the things that they’ve ACTUALLY done wrong. This isn’t one of them.
This lore was clearly made to explain the dramatic art style changes, you can always tell when writers have to make something up because of a stupid change
Og fan: how dare you change the original grunt design and change the arbiter Me: them having different races of the same species makes sense though it’s stupid but understandable on why they changed the arbiter
It still does not change the fact that in my language "unggoy" means "monkey" so in Halo cannon the people from my country who believe the theory of evolution are probably so confused that or have conspirasies about us "Humans" being either distant relatives, different evolution paths due to environmental difference or a pre-evolution (during war) as they are physically stronger than us and stand at around similar heights or the more evolved version (post war) as we did win the war and definitely feel superior again.
I love how literally every faction we've seen (humanity, Covenant, etc) in the Halo universe has been racist, it doesn't matter if they have allies from other species even they will be treated differently Now that I think about it, a lot of Halo's history happens because of racism, the human-covenant war, enslaving the grunts, the Human-Forerunner War, the separation of the Covenant by the hatred between elites and brutes, etc.
Variations of a race and different races isn’t the same thing. Also the grunt are all the same race, the other ones are just subspecies. It’s like the Panther and then the Florida Panther.
My information is based on the writers wording in the 2022 encyclopedia. At no point do they use the term “species” or “subspecies” when describing variations in Unggoy. Instead they use the term “morphologies” which refers to structure and appearance. For example, there are multiple different color morphs of certain bird species. Each color is part of the same species despite a distinct morphology. If the only difference is their structure or appearance then they could be considered races or “breeds” but not different species or subspecies. That is all of the information that currently exists and unless something changes, there’s nothing incorrect about what I said
Yes, this is bothersome. I heard an interesting theory regarding that recently. Perhaps Thel is a mixed race and as he’s aged, his appearance has come to more closely represent the other race
Modders should add the different Races and even the Vehicles and Weapons to every Halo Game, mixing them all together. It really bothers me that for example some Vehicles looks this way in Halo A B and C, but then different in D and E. But not just their design, even their behavior in each Game is weird and sometimes kinda annoying, for example the Banshee. In Halo 3 it just falls from the Sky when you press the Left Stick (or S key), in Halo 3 ODST however they Hover in the Air. Also if you go with the Lore Timeline, it is just weird asf to see only Type 26B banshees on fall of reach, months later on Earth and later on the Ark you fight against Type 26A banshees, and 4 Years later you see type 26B again, THEN the Covenant suddenly have a Type 54 Banshee with Shields, and THEN LATER, many Covenant troops converted to the Banished, WHO HAVE THE TYPE 26A IN HALO WARS 2 AGAIN, *JUST TO APPEAR IN TYPE 26B IN INFINITE AFTERWARD!!!* Just who the fuck took the Pills that were responsible for the Vehicle Designs?
I get what you’re saying but I don’t 100% agree. Different groups may have preferred different designs. The covenant was HUGE. It’s not super weird to think the designs would be all over the place. I think the enemy count/strategies employed by protagonists in game is kept vague for a reason. It’s a basic approximation of what the battles looked like. With that in mind, I think that could apply to what you’re saying too. That’s my thought process at least. That being said: I would LOVE to see multiple variants of weapons and vehicles in game that either function ever so slightly differently or exactly the same. Even for some aesthetic variety.
Is that the same with the Kig-yar (jackals) they have a noticeable difference between bungies to 4 and 5's Infinite I think goes back to the more traditional look like the Unggoy
The armor also is different for an in lore reason. The ones in halo 4 and 5 arent military grade armor. In fact they arent even armor, they are diving gear lol.
Yeah I'm not entirely on board with the whole "race" like there's nothing wrong with it but there's also nothing wrong with it just being a art style change. The Elites for example have a different art style for every game but Halo 4 and 5 Overall though this is my opinion, I think it's unnecessary to give reason to art style changes in lore kinda like current Star Trek explaining why the Klingons used to not have head ridges in the original, that being some kind of sickness that changed the shape of their skulls.. cause that makes sense.
I think it’s cool world building. It’s akin to the different subspecies of homo or different animal morphologies on earth. Different appearances throughout a species is common in any life form
tbh i like the 5 grunts the most, they actually take more features from the classic grunts and blend it with the new. they have the spines from 3 and reach, some have blue skin like the original ce and 2, and overall just on top of the H4 bodies. actually hate infinites, they just look like an extremely less detailed version of reachs grunts, just a big brown lump of.. well you know.
They actually did. Cryo tubes all have nano bots in them, typically used for repairing damaged suits during extended hibernation. Cortana modified his armor during the 4 years he was asleep. She actually mentions this in game. “I rewrote your suits firmware while you were out”
Is t it amazing how they stuck to one design all the way upto 343, it’s almost like they tried changing the look of everything like they did the Elite…. Bro I’m still waiting for brutes to be playable on halo 3 👀😂
That’s not just something 343 did though. Reach radically changed the brutes. They look horrible in that game. I remember seeing a rumor that brutes would be playable in Infinite. Sadly just a rumor. You can play as brutes in Halo 2 through glitches. It’s not the same though
Is it bad that when you cut from the Halo 3 grunt to the Halo infinite grunt the quality of grunt designs went from the late 2000s Halo Realistic Action chad figures to the modern early 2020s Halo virgin lego figures? Asking for a friend
What’s the proper spelling for the names of their races? And how are they going to explain the variations of Sangheili? I know that for the Bungie games Reach’s are considered anatomically correct because they based the head model after the Legendary skull.
@@Woodyisasexybeast *Do they have different names for how they look.* Are they JUST Sangheili or do the different designs across the series have a name for the subspecies?
@@Woodyisasexybeast Yes, that's a real shame honestly, I miss the old design and would enjoy to see them as they are with improved graphics. But since they are classified as the same species, they are practically replaced for the crustacean-looking gremlins. 😣
This was all before 343 ruined everything. So yeah, it was an art design decision that they had to fix by re-adding the original designs and giving them subspecies.
@@evild4v329 There wasn't much focus on lore in halo ce and 2 iirc. They only started to really flush out the lore around when h3 came out so there was probably some backpedaling during bungie era too.
ill be honest i stopped when 343 got involved, played 4 and it was bad. tried 5 stopped after a few missions and sold it. halo aint what it use to be. 2 and 3 where great tho, one of the best soundtracks and campaigns ive ever heared and played
The only thing is that humans don't have races. We're not genetically different enough for it to be constituted as such, and so comparing Unggoy races to human tones is... inaccurate, to say the least. It is, however, very likely that when we become a highly advanced space-faring people in the far distant future, we will eventually have races as our bodies adapt to our new environments.
“I don’t want my sweet baby triangular backpacked baby grunt hanging out with any of them no good circular backpacked fellas”
“And don’t even get me STARTED on the SQUARE backpack mfs”
I love sci fi racism
I'm racist against the circular back grunts
@@CAnDiecoRN316 facts
I think calling them grunts is bad alone lol
Grunt racists lol
Hey other grunt, I don’t like you cause your race has different mouth shapes than me
Me*
@@phanto6599 so you said “grunt me”
I wonder if grunts have segregated units based on race the same way the US did before Vietnam, it would explain why we only ever see grunts of one particular race at a time, rather than mixtures of all variations.
@@trainknut we demand grunt integration!
I need a tv series just about grunts. That's how much I like them
I’d love any story with a grunt protagonist. I’m not picky
This actually does make me feel a lot better about the discrepancy between the different visual styles, I always thought the “new” grunts were a retcon but now that I think about it, it actually makes way more sense that there would just be different looking grunts out there we hadn’t seen before.
It was a retcon, then later on they added a half assed lore reason why they look different. The reason why they went back to normal looking grunts in infinite was because of the back lash lol. Guarantee the race of grunts in 4 and 5 will never be seen again
It doesn’t matter if “it was a retcon”. It’s not a retcon. And no, this isn’t half assed. Half assed would be giving no explanation whatsoever. This is far better than just pretending it didn’t happen.
@@Gameprojordan oh so it’s okay for elites to come in 17 different bright neon colours but not for the grunts to have a slightly different shaped backpack?
I’m glad 343 can explain away bad design choice 😂
That’s literally the entire point of the explanation.
Bro now that's just racist. But that's just a theory, a game theory!
@@AGleeBustHard69 Idk 343 gave them mouths to eat food and talk. Bungie grunts would have to starve or take off there face mask 😷
It’s the best decision. It allows them to use the classic designs while still keeping reclaimer designs canon so they can be used in other material, like what HW2 did. Maybe someday a mainline Halo game will multiple types of the aliens for different roles or just to increase enemy visual diversity. I’d love to see the reclaimer Jackals return, easily best looking version of them.
@@BigGleemRecords If you shoot the masks off in Halo 3 you can see their face.
That’s actually a good theory and never really thought about this in halo
Not a theory, my friend. 100% canon
Not a theory. Been confirmed since 2012.
Because its not a theory
A GAME Theory!
Because they kinda slid it in after the fact upon realizing "oh shit people actually care about why these guys look different." Theoretically the same thing applies to the elites even though the arbiter is somehow different too?
Same as the flimsy "nanomachines" excuse for chief's armor being different. They could have fleshed it out but instead they went art first, story later for the sake of making "their halo" unique.
The 343 designs being retconned as subspecies is an almost perfect explanation of why the artstyle changed so much. Although it does lead to the confusing implication of Thel 'Vadam somehow just changing phenotypes between 3 and 5
I guess Thel was the child of an interracial couple and he started looking more so like one than the other when he got older?
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic but if you aren’t, that’s actually a decent explanation. I’ve never really noticed the drastic difference in his appearance that everyone mentions though.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Kinda sarcastic kinda not, I doubt that if the Arbiter appears again his body being kinda different would be explained as him being mixed, but if it where that would be a fun little character tidbit.
@@Woodyisasexybeast The difference in Arbiter's appearance in 5 isn't super noticeable because his armor covers most of his body, and I think this was intentional, since the most obvious difference is that, beyond his increased body-mass, his mandibles have the more diagonal design you'd see in 4 and 5. This is ironically the most noticeable in his cosmetics for Killer Instinct, where his default look, along with most of his cosmetics give him 4/5's elite head, but his skins based on H2 give him the more traditional ones.
Ah, that explains it. Thank you!
Actually I mean technically speaking they’re a different grunt species.
I don’t think “species” is the right term. Subspecies generally can’t interbreed and if they do, their offspring is typically sterile. Grunts don’t seem to have that problem. The 2022 Halo encyclopedia refers to the different versions as “morphological variations” and not “subspecies”. There is a distinct difference. Therefore, these variants are more akin to races or “breeds”.
@@Woodyisasexybeast I’ve not heard of them interbreeding I’ll have to look that up, that being said there are species that can interbreed with other species like cats for instance but I assumed as much because there aren’t any cross breeds in game. I mean if you ask me it’s just kind of a bad excuse from 343 to explain why they changed every single thing in the game.
There aren’t any direct mentions of this, that’s mostly conjecture on my part. It isn’t a lame explanation though. In real life, humans and animals have lots of different morphological variants and appearances. Cats interbreeding aren’t technically different species though, they’re different “breeds”. The term “breed” doesn’t actually fit into any formal taxonomical system and by definition, all house cats are part of the “domestic cat” species. Many animals have vastly different morphologies while still being apart of the same species.
@@olibarrett4283 interbreeding is more like a mule...horse and donkey have a baby. They're usually sterile and if I remember right they're not evenly split between male and female, they're more likely to be one than the other.
@@Woodyisasexybeast let’s not discount the possibility that culture could play a factor in why we only see grunts of one particular variation in the same spot.
Perhaps Unggoy are actually huge racists and have a form of segregation in their military, it would explain not only why we only see one type of grunt at a time, but also why we never see evidence of cross breeding or “bi-racial” grunts.
Guess master chief became a different species too when he was sitting in a tube when they made that decision
No, Cortana modified his armor using nano bots. A common practice for armor repair during cryo sleep. Not an amazing explanation but that’s the one we got.
@@WoodyisasexybeastExcept for the fact that she said she updated the firmware. Also, if she can modify the armour to that degree, how come she didn't fix the damage on it? Very flimsy explanation, just like 95% of 343's writing.
I never said it was a good explanation. But that’s what we got. She updates the firmware AND modified it in cryo. I didn’t write it, I’m just the messenger.
wonderfully made
Thank you 😊
In my language which is BISAYA (one of the major languages spoken in the Philippines) the word UNGGOY means monkey and the way I see it, they do look like small monkeys 😅
Hunters even more so. The named hunter bosses in halo 5 are Tagalog.
Funnily enough, despite their seeming similarities to monkeys, they’re actually hyper evolved crustaceans.
You say they look like small monkeys but you forget master chief is like almost 9' tall. The ungoy are around five feet five inches
Average Unggoy height is 4-5 feet. Chief is 7. Still quite the disparity between them though
@@Woodyisasexybeast I totally forgot that UNGGOY also means monkey in Tagalog 😅 but yeah, they still look like monkeys specially the way they raise their hands and run away when scared 🤣
Kinda ironic because they look more crustacean or turtle like lol.
No it’s exactly that, a change in art styles. The whole “it’s a different species” was just added in later one as an excuse, the same with “nanobots changing Chief’s armour”, and the brutish looking elites
That’s literally the entire point.
Would have been nice if they had the different variants in the game. Like how they did jackals and skirmishers in reach and infinite.
They may have different names but they all have one thing in common, They are all targets!
I wish we didn’t have to fight them….imagine fighting along side one of these guys :3
You kinda get a little bit of that in Halo 2, but I agree.
Glad this is explained now. I didn’t notice that 4 and 5 were different from each other.
It’s quite subtle
Yea I noticed the change between 3 and 4. But I just assumed 5 used the same models as 4.
I absolutely love the grunts lol. Funny little dudes
Today I finally learned the names of each phenotype
I like the Zim-zibs look. Lol
I love how people complain about 343 changing lore when 343 is the only reason lore exists because Bungie was winging it now until they hired 343 for the lore. Now of course I think the Bungie games played way better but 343 has more continuity as far as I have seen. Just a note this isn't directed at the creater of the video
Honestly, the explanation that the grunts and elites of 4 and 5 are a subspecies has really helped me appreciate 343's designs.
Grunt racism
They're all baby man's in my eyes.
If you play halo wars 2, amd use The Arbiter as your leader, the suicide grunts use the Halo 4/5 models while the rest of them are classic grunts. Its the only game that has both styles in the same game as far as I'm aware
Never knew that. Very cool
Like most people I’m not a big fan of how the Grunts look in 4 and 5 (the 4 ones look like Wretches from Gears of War, and the 5 ones are slightly better but are still really weird). But I personally really like their new armor. I think that if it was less overly designed and put in a Bungie styled Grunt you’d have something great (think what Infinite did with the major ranks).
I know it’s not canon but I think the design for the CE/2 Grunts could be considered their own subspecies. They have what look like horn spikes on their elbows, clawed toes/fingers, and their skin is a leathery purple/dark blue. Their eyes are also facing forwards and underneath their helmet there’s a preset that has lips (check out Hunterunt’s content. He has lots of videos showing off all these little details in 2). The Halo Legends Grunts that were being repopulated is what I imagine they’d look like with more detail.
One thing that I don’t like about the 3/Reach Grunts is how rather than toes they just have nubs. It looks weird and doesn’t make much anatomical sense for their feet to just be stubs.
I think when it comes to the CE/2/3/Reach designs, a lot of the differences are much smaller and could be explained away as different individuals simply having different appearances. If that makes sense.
I’m not a fan of the grunts in 4/5 either but I am thankful they actually created an explanation. I wish they would’ve used all variants in Infinite. That would’ve really fit the philosophies of the Banished. I understand designing more models costs more resources but it would’ve been very helpful to drive home the ideals of the Banished. Anyone is welcome, so long as you’re willing to prove yourself.
Its just like the Jackals! My favorite is the awesome unique aggressive ones from halo reach!
Skirmishers/T’Voaons. I agree, they’re awesome
@@Woodyisasexybeast I remember lots of people hating them cuz they weren’t fun to shoot
I can get that but I love their design
@@michealjaymurphy That's kinda dumb for hating on them for being a "Challenging enemy" in my opinion you need good enemies designs and unique enemy tactics to appreciate a challenge. A good example is Doom 2016 and Eternal, in that game all enemies have unique designs and different fighting styles. Most people hate the Marauder for being to hard despite very good players knows how rekt them very quickly! Its how build your "gaming skills"
For me thats the reason why I love the Skimmishers from halo reach and now I barely realize they return in halo infinite, the skirmishers are enemies that makes you be "aware" of your surrounding and if you don't pay attention to your surroundings they will punish you for letting them flank you. On top of that they encourage you to have good aiming skills and reflex shots! Which why skrimishers have amazing agility and dodging skills.
@@messageinthebottle1673 nope nope and nope, this wasn’t a gaming skill this was a "fun thing"
they're adorable in that drastically hideous way
Well, seeming that they have distinctive features but can still interbreed, they would be subspecies.
Subspecies can’t always interbreed though. A lot of the time, their offspring is sterile. The semantics used in the encyclopedia are kind of confusing. They say “morphological variances”. That implies they’re more akin to races than separate subspecies. The term “subspecies” already has sort of a gray definition though so I’m not sure
@@Woodyisasexybeast subspecies literally can interbreed, that's why they're a subspecies and not a separate species. What makes them a subspecies is quite a few differences in the physiology but the allowance of interbreeding, like the quagga and the zebra.
No, subspecies, for the most part, do not interbreed and if they do, their offspring is usually sterile. Mules are an excellent example. Mules are almost always sterile.
Guess the elites are a different story. Still remember arbiter look different in H3 and in H5 he's now one of the new elite subspecies. Is 343 gonna make another retcon that elites can morph at will? Nano machines son?
If so, why morph into one of the most ugliest forms more brutish than anything else. H4&5 had some really bad design choices but people will cope I guess, so... 🤷
halo 4 and 5 are years later so maybe just age and working out, the elites changed the least between games, mainly just size and facial features. nothing too drastic like the grunts or jackals.
And here I just thought it was a backpack for them to breath
That’s on all grunts. Their facial structure is totally different from 3-4-5. That’s what I’m referring to in this video
@@Woodyisasexybeast oh. Guess I'm just an idiot
Nah, not at all. You’re good
We need to make a grunt appreciation group
Grunts are people too
Love me some unggoy! Yap Yap for Prez!
That’s a cool lore point. Hiwever, if it were me, then I would’ve kept the og designs lol.
Triangle backpacks for the win
Man that was some deep lore explanation into their differences
Balls deep into the lore
@@Woodyisasexybeast you must be going to China then for something that small
Deeper
Same for Jackals. There are three separates ethnic groups inside Kig-Yar species.
Those from Reach for example are T'vaon.
Yes. I have a video about that as well
@@Woodyisasexybeast excellent. Well done.
I love the fact that Bungie and in less measure also 343i have designed an entire universe so detailed and realistic.
I cant get tired of Halo even if Im a fan from 23 years straight.
Excellently done my friend. You have my like. 👍
Yes! Halo is such a vast and detailed universe. I don’t think I could ever be truly done with the franchise. The characters and world are just too damn good.
@@Woodyisasexybeast indeed.
Im also a fan of Alien franchie, from which Halo was inspired.
But still Halo comes first.
The first grunts are strangely adorable
They’ve got lots of sharp teeth
@@Woodyisasexybeast I with there mask on
God I love that they made into lore
First it was a art style change then because of how much everyone disliked the new look they used the different species explanation
Makes sense like have you heard their roast sessions.😂😂😂
That’s my headcanon with the elites
I believe that's also already cannon too
Also the fact that one ungoy lays a fuck load of eggs most grunts ypu run into are probably related closely lol
Sweet home Balaho, where the skies are so blue
Separate but equal huh? Solid plan
I had no idea I was a grunt racist
The whole idea of subraces within covenant races is just a tool to retcon new and old artstyle changes. I’m not giving 343 any leeway 😂
Uh, yeah. That’s the entire point. And it’s not a “retcon”. It’s to prevent a retcon. This is the best of both worlds because now both designs are canon. Besides, bungie literally did this first in Reach with Skirmishers
@@Woodyisasexybeast it was a form of recon considering how they went back to the original elites and grunts after their backlash with halo 4 and 5 with infinite, where are those elites anyways, and no it's a horrible excuse considering how they changes arbiter too, you wanna tell me how arbiter change sub species from halo 3 to 4 stop defending 343
I will defend 343 in necessary situations. If he mentioned their inability to develop games, I’d agree. If he mentioned how they’ve lied over the years, I’d agree. But I won’t agree with things that are incorrect. 343 doesn’t retcon story elements (minus the weirdness with the forward unto dawn and an armor design in a cutscene but that was less a retcon and more an inconsistency).
I have no issues with holding 343 accountable for the things that they’ve ACTUALLY done wrong. This isn’t one of them.
@@Woodyisasexybeastwell the point is lame
Grunts make a genocide look cute
So they are, Kafiff, zimzib and rit rit??
“Kafv” but yes.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Kafv's are the funniest.
I feel like they were given the most personality
This lore was clearly made to explain the dramatic art style changes, you can always tell when writers have to make something up because of a stupid change
Well yeah. That’s the entire point. It’s actually a decent explanation though and adds some additional depth to the Unggoy
Og fan: how dare you change the original grunt design and change the arbiter
Me: them having different races of the same species makes sense though it’s stupid but understandable on why they changed the arbiter
It still does not change the fact that in my language "unggoy" means "monkey" so in Halo cannon the people from my country who believe the theory of evolution are probably so confused that or have conspirasies about us "Humans" being either distant relatives, different evolution paths due to environmental difference or a pre-evolution (during war) as they are physically stronger than us and stand at around similar heights or the more evolved version (post war) as we did win the war and definitely feel superior again.
I love how literally every faction we've seen (humanity, Covenant, etc) in the Halo universe has been racist, it doesn't matter if they have allies from other species even they will be treated differently
Now that I think about it, a lot of Halo's history happens because of racism, the human-covenant war, enslaving the grunts, the Human-Forerunner War, the separation of the Covenant by the hatred between elites and brutes, etc.
Unfortunately, it’s been the same in real life. That’s what makes Halo so believable. It’s rooted in reality
Theres the one from reach who wears like a white box
Variations of a race and different races isn’t the same thing. Also the grunt are all the same race, the other ones are just subspecies. It’s like the Panther and then the Florida Panther.
My information is based on the writers wording in the 2022 encyclopedia. At no point do they use the term “species” or “subspecies” when describing variations in Unggoy. Instead they use the term “morphologies” which refers to structure and appearance. For example, there are multiple different color morphs of certain bird species. Each color is part of the same species despite a distinct morphology. If the only difference is their structure or appearance then they could be considered races or “breeds” but not different species or subspecies. That is all of the information that currently exists and unless something changes, there’s nothing incorrect about what I said
halo 1 and 2 grunts are there own race
Maybe but the 2022 encyclopedia makes no mention of it. Just the 3
Didn’t know that
Well they said the same for the elites, but arbiter is a different race now
Yes, this is bothersome. I heard an interesting theory regarding that recently. Perhaps Thel is a mixed race and as he’s aged, his appearance has come to more closely represent the other race
Modders should add the different Races and even the Vehicles and Weapons to every Halo Game, mixing them all together. It really bothers me that for example some Vehicles looks this way in Halo A B and C, but then different in D and E. But not just their design, even their behavior in each Game is weird and sometimes kinda annoying, for example the Banshee. In Halo 3 it just falls from the Sky when you press the Left Stick (or S key), in Halo 3 ODST however they Hover in the Air.
Also if you go with the Lore Timeline, it is just weird asf to see only Type 26B banshees on fall of reach, months later on Earth and later on the Ark you fight against Type 26A banshees, and 4 Years later you see type 26B again, THEN the Covenant suddenly have a Type 54 Banshee with Shields, and THEN LATER, many Covenant troops converted to the Banished, WHO HAVE THE TYPE 26A IN HALO WARS 2 AGAIN, *JUST TO APPEAR IN TYPE 26B IN INFINITE AFTERWARD!!!*
Just who the fuck took the Pills that were responsible for the Vehicle Designs?
I get what you’re saying but I don’t 100% agree. Different groups may have preferred different designs. The covenant was HUGE. It’s not super weird to think the designs would be all over the place. I think the enemy count/strategies employed by protagonists in game is kept vague for a reason. It’s a basic approximation of what the battles looked like. With that in mind, I think that could apply to what you’re saying too. That’s my thought process at least.
That being said: I would LOVE to see multiple variants of weapons and vehicles in game that either function ever so slightly differently or exactly the same. Even for some aesthetic variety.
Wait from 4 to 5 they changed? God I hate how they look so much I never took the time to tell them apart
Apparently 🤷♂️
Is that the same with the Kig-yar (jackals) they have a noticeable difference between bungies to 4 and 5's Infinite I think goes back to the more traditional look like the Unggoy
Yes. I have a video about that too
The armor also is different for an in lore reason. The ones in halo 4 and 5 arent military grade armor. In fact they arent even armor, they are diving gear lol.
Covenant splinter groups don’t have the money to spend on good gear. Instead they get the goodwill shit lol
@@Woodyisasexybeast 😂
Idc about subcategories of grunts. All I want to know is, does birthday confetti pop out their head when I shoot it?
Absolutely
I always thought they were just from different regiments/squads
It’s both. The remnant factions had different armor and stuff too. They didn’t have the wealth and resources that the Covenant had
They may be called different things, but they die all the same
Nah anything after Halo 3 chronologically never happened. That's my head canon anyway
What about the original grunt with the eyes in front of their head from the original ce and halo 2?
Those are Kafv. They’re in this video
What home world?
I wonder if anyone will get the reference.
Ex-post facto explanations!!!!
Yeah I'm not entirely on board with the whole "race" like there's nothing wrong with it but there's also nothing wrong with it just being a art style change.
The Elites for example have a different art style for every game but Halo 4 and 5
Overall though this is my opinion, I think it's unnecessary to give reason to art style changes in lore
kinda like current Star Trek explaining why the Klingons used to not have head ridges in the original, that being some kind of sickness that changed the shape of their skulls.. cause that makes sense.
I think it’s cool world building. It’s akin to the different subspecies of homo or different animal morphologies on earth. Different appearances throughout a species is common in any life form
I love seeing different races of aliens most scifi species are too uniform
tbh i like the 5 grunts the most, they actually take more features from the classic grunts and blend it with the new. they have the spines from 3 and reach, some have blue skin like the original ce and 2, and overall just on top of the H4 bodies. actually hate infinites, they just look like an extremely less detailed version of reachs grunts, just a big brown lump of.. well you know.
I don’t hate the infinite grunts but I agree with your H5 grunt assessment
I just thought it was different armor
It’s both
Grunt KKK (GGG) ☠️
This is all just because 343 sucks and messes up everything including design just trying to be different from bungi
Bungie literally did the exact same thing in Reach when adding skirmishers.
"messes up everything"
number company bad, rope company good
you know what they can’t write off the tho? Master chiefs armor changing “species”…. Master chef changed to Mjolnir Model X in cryo-sleep🤣🤪
They actually did. Cryo tubes all have nano bots in them, typically used for repairing damaged suits during extended hibernation. Cortana modified his armor during the 4 years he was asleep. She actually mentions this in game. “I rewrote your suits firmware while you were out”
"Those zimzibs could work on my farm" 👴
Oh no
Is t it amazing how they stuck to one design all the way upto 343, it’s almost like they tried changing the look of everything like they did the Elite…. Bro I’m still waiting for brutes to be playable on halo 3 👀😂
That’s not just something 343 did though. Reach radically changed the brutes. They look horrible in that game.
I remember seeing a rumor that brutes would be playable in Infinite. Sadly just a rumor. You can play as brutes in Halo 2 through glitches. It’s not the same though
Idk about you, but same flood reaction. As long as they are present of course.
Is it bad that when you cut from the Halo 3 grunt to the Halo infinite grunt the quality of grunt designs went from the late 2000s Halo Realistic Action chad figures to the modern early 2020s Halo virgin lego figures? Asking for a friend
I mean, I disagree. The designs in Infinite are great.
Is ghaul from destiny 2 a different type
I thought it was just different armor ngl
It’s both
So now we have "Unggoy Racism"
The thing is the OG is an insect thing and the new ones are clearly mammalian like
Neither is technically correct. They’re actually hyper evolved crustaceans
Ungoy racism
What about ce and 2?
What’s the proper spelling for the names of their races?
And how are they going to explain the variations of Sangheili? I know that for the Bungie games Reach’s are considered anatomically correct because they based the head model after the Legendary skull.
Kafv
Ritrit
Zimzib
The elite variances have the same explanation.
@@Woodyisasexybeast Do they alternate names for how they look?
Alternate names? What do you mean?
@@Woodyisasexybeast *Do they have different names for how they look.* Are they JUST Sangheili or do the different designs across the series have a name for the subspecies?
Their variances aren’t quite as distinct as the Unggoy or the Kig-Yar, for example. I assume that’s why they haven’t been given separate names
Would be a lot more appropriate to just have these variants serve different purposes
I'm happy they decided to change the race then just say it's a redesign because I think the covenant in Halo 4 and 5 are so ugly
What about elites?
Nah there's no way you're convincing me that Halo CE and 2's grunts are the same as 3 and Reach...
They’re not explicitly outlined as separate subspecies 🤷♂️
@@Woodyisasexybeast Yes, that's a real shame honestly, I miss the old design and would enjoy to see them as they are with improved graphics.
But since they are classified as the same species, they are practically replaced for the crustacean-looking gremlins. 😣
Perhaps it’s just individual morphological diversity. Like how individual people can look vastly different from one another
@@Woodyisasexybeast Yeah that makes sense, oh well, nice short btw.
In Tagalog their name means monkey
This was all before 343 ruined everything. So yeah, it was an art design decision that they had to fix by re-adding the original designs and giving them subspecies.
343 have done some really stupid things over the years but this explanation is definitely not one of them.
Which one is in Halo wars 1 and 2?
Not sure. Kafv I think but it’s hard to tell cause they’re tiny
Did they make up stuff to justify the artstyle change?
That’s sorta the whole point. This is a fictional universe, everything is made up
@@Woodyisasexybeast but isnt there a differnec between
"Creating Art around a Story"
And
"Crating Story because of 'art'"
There isn’t a problem with either methodology. Both work and can be compelling.
@@evild4v329 There wasn't much focus on lore in halo ce and 2 iirc. They only started to really flush out the lore around when h3 came out so there was probably some backpedaling during bungie era too.
What if I told you it was an artstyle shift that was explained away by the writers?
Thats kinda the point of lore at times yknow
I thought it was the drug infusions that damaged their skin, eyes etc.
That could be a contributing factor with certain individuals but that’s not 100% the cause of the visual differences.
Nice excuse for 343
Explanation ≠ excuse
ill be honest i stopped when 343 got involved, played 4 and it was bad. tried 5 stopped after a few missions and sold it. halo aint what it use to be. 2 and 3 where great tho, one of the best soundtracks and campaigns ive ever heared and played
I strongly disagree. Halo 4 is amazing. One of the best in the series imo. Reach, 2 and 4.
The soundtracks are all phenomenal for sure.
Smart lol
Basically 343 trying backpedal out of their ugly artstyle changes lol
I wouldn’t say “back pedal”. Just explain away so as to make the shift not jarring or weird.
The only thing is that humans don't have races. We're not genetically different enough for it to be constituted as such, and so comparing Unggoy races to human tones is... inaccurate, to say the least.
It is, however, very likely that when we become a highly advanced space-faring people in the far distant future, we will eventually have races as our bodies adapt to our new environments.
Every time I play halo I always let the grunts live .