My stack & tilt golf swing experiment: The Conclusion
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2023
- After watching a lot of stack & tilt golf swing instruction videos on UA-cam (mainly Tom Saguto, plus a few others), I decided to try it for myself. That was a few months ago, so now it's time to decide if I'm going full tilt on stack and tilt or moving on to my next desperate attempt to get good at golf...
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I agree Rob. I've tried s&t in an attempt to get off my right side but i don't like the way it feels at all so will continue in my quest to open up and get forward another way. Truth is though, I'll probably die trying. On my gravestone, it will say "tried to get his low point in front of the ball.....but failed. Rest in peace John, forever fat"
Who ever you are out there… John, that was hilarious 😂
Trying throwing your hips like a baseball or hockey swing at impact start once your downswing is near your hips just fire thst turn. Make sure you feel it in your right big toe if youre right handed to be doing it right. Exaggerate it at the range for a session and it will click. Goodluck
Brilliant...at least you'll be a dab hand at gardening Mr Fatter ha ha
Imagine giving up on better golf because you don't like how it feels
@@robchapman3514"hit my best drives ever but felt weird" -- I'd feel a bit out of place striping the ball down the fairway as well.
I've been waiting for this video brother.
EDIT: I found Saguto Golf and tried it out. Love that guy! lol. I use some of it's/his principles and his videos have helped me find "MY" best swing.
EDIT EDIT LOL: Your swing is phenomenal. I would stick with what ever you're doing... and it's your putting letting you down, not the striking. Love your videos and journey.
Rob you shouldn't give up on it. Both times you played the weather was pants yet on the range when the weather was kind you was striping it. May I be so bold to say all your putts were push right may be worth checking your alignment also your takeaway on the putts are quite quick and snatchy, I have the same putter as you and I let the weight of the clubhead do the work. Great content mate. Thank you.
I've been playing golf for
2 years. S&t for 4months and I must say I'm hitting them pure. Key point for me was tilting the left shoulder as low as possible on the upswing, keeping your head centre's throughout the entire transition and after impact, weight on lead leg. Keep practicing the system so come gameday, you don't think about it. Just aim and shoot. Love the video brother
Thanks for your input Rob because I came to the same conclusion so now I'm happy it's not just me.
Have you ever tried stack & tilt? How did it go for you ?🏌♀🤔
I tried it after watching a guy do a golf clinic in Spain, he was the best ball striker I have seen and could move the ball wherever you asked him to - initially like you I was striping the ball and playing some of the best approach shots into greens I have ever hit.
I am an 18 Hcp and watching the shot you just hit do exactly as you wanted it to is a great feeling, little baby draw from the edge of the green into the pin, just beautiful!
but then I started over drawing everything and couldn't get it back so ended up going back to a more conventional swing, I have kept some of the set up to try and keep the strike as clean as possible.
As others have said keep going with the driver at the very least as it looked great!
Best ball striking ever. You're doing something right.
As a S&T convert for 8 months, I have also noticed that I will sometimes hit a shot a lot better then average and airmail a green. When I watch your video I think you will benefit most from better putting, your swing looks great.
Rob, I’m a fairly decent golfer (usually flit between 2 & 4 hcp) and I went to S&T in 2015 after a couple of years of horrendous iron striking (constantly hitting it fat with huge divots, just awful). I looked at it online first and bought the first book too which is great, but I then found an authorised S&T instructor near to me in Manchester, which has been a revelation and I’ve been having lessons with him ever since.
My ball striking has been superb as I understand the components of the swing which control the low point and how to make adjustments when I’m strugging. Darren only uses the pieces of the S&T model that are relevant to me and use them as reference points when my swing is out. My advice would be to find a local certified instructor and give it a go properly for a season rather than trying to figure it out yourself and giving up after 2 rounds!
I think the main thing for me is the consistency in theory over the years, by that I mean that I’m now always working on the same things and it’s more a case of fine tuning. I can not play for 2 months then come back and have the same swing thoughts as before which is a big confidence boost.
I had the same issue with my irons. I was horrific for a while. I had that soft floaty sliced pushy thing going on and it irritated the life out me. Since going to S&T my ball striking has been crispy. Good to know that there are instructors out their who teach this method. I feel it goes against the grain with some teaching pro’s and is sometimes frowned upon.
Your understanding of the swing is something I relate to. Before when I hit a bad iron shit I had no idea what I was doing. Now when I’m in the S&T setup I know exactly what I’ve done when the ball flight goes one way or the other. I mostly struggle with over active hands through impact and as long as I can keep them quiet and feel as though I ‘trap’ the ball I can be pretty consistent.
I couldn't agree with any more. Well said. S&T has made golf fun again and I've been a student of this swing now for 3 years.
Golf looks so awesome and flat over there! hells yeah
Hey Rob, I started watching you when you looked into Zen golf ⛳️. Now I’m hooked on it! I’d like to see you back on that. Cheers!
Hi Rob, this has happened to me several times over the past 5 years (thinking I have found the next thing that worked but it didn’t translate and have given up on searching like this)It’s very difficult to transfer to the course because of the differences in time between shots and the complex nature of variety of skills/shots compared to just a full swing. I would definitely suggest not worrying about scores when you play golf and be more aware of what your ball is doing and less on swing thoughts. It’s very often that we all swing it a certain way on a day. The trick is to adapt on the day to what you are doing. For example knowing what happened when you flipped that first one over and having a thought to rehearse the correct move the next similar shot. Knowing whether those puts where poor pushed putts or an alignment issue and correcting quicker than just keep doing the same thing.
This is very good advice for all amateur golfers. Also range/practice time will always be better used than playing if you're trying to get better. Do the work at the range. The course is not for tinkering its for fun and sticking to something and like op said adapting to whats going on with your swing that day
Nice to see you persevering with S&T. From what I can see, the driving and approach shots seem solid - GIR looks good. It may actually be just the dancefloor you need to work on to keep those scores nice and low. I am sure you'll see the obvious push of the putts which really only seemed like the issue this round. Great round in pretty grim weather!
Rob, love your vlogs as so much relates to my game.
Whether you go stack and tilt, thought free, or conscious 1 or 2 swing thoughts with your “usual” swing, I don’t think matters that much. I don’t think your long/mid game cost you any shots in this vid, but putting cost you loads (I know, you already knew that!) What I would say with your putting is it appears your hands are level or maybe a fraction behind the ball at impact (freeze frame at 3:52, again on 6th green). Look at the best putters (Woods, Faxon etc) and their hands, or a line from their sternum through their hands, are all in front of the ball. I am in no way a putting coach, but working on this has helped me loads.
Yeah you’re right and that’s actually something that was pointed out years ago when I had a putter fitting. Something to experiment with for sure!
I really liked how you edited this video Rob!
Thank you!
Great vid, classic BBC forecast by the sounds of the old “no rain”! I wondered how you were getting on with S&T it wasn’t me. Look up Ron Del Barrio been messing with it at the range and some pure strikes. Roll on the next vid always interesting.
Nice to see you back on the course again Robb. Too bad about the weather, but hey, you live in Britain, so...
My New Year resolutions are all golf related. My effort to be a better man is fully linked to my golf handicap. How shallow is that?!
Ha, what are the resolutions?
Read all the comments so far, I'd just say well done and "rhythm is the glue that holds it all together" but more importantly well done (Oh yep and get some socks !!😉)
Rob, you helped me find S&T and the guru Tom Saguto. I'm hitting it better than ever. Don't give up. Play more golf in better weather, on better greens and you'll come to a different conclusion.
Glad to hear it dude!
@@RobMcGarrI follow Tom too. I’m beginning to get it.
I discovered S&T during the covid lockdowns. I took up the sport again after a twenty-year break because I needed to find something to get me out of the house. Long story short, my game has vastly improved. My drives used to be 225 yds with a terrible slice. Now my drives are between 250 and 280 consistently with a slight draw. Of course, I still have bad rounds, but now I understand the golf swing better when things go wrong. I, too, struggled with sometimes way over hooking/pulling iron shots. That was fixed by not "thrusting" my hips lateral toward the target so much. What makes the swing so controversial is back in 2005 when S & T came on the golfing scene Mark Bennette and Andy Plummer made the very unwise claim that anything that wasn't S&T was swinging the club wrong. Needless to say, no one in the know has forgotten that.
Hey Rob, love the video. Do you have to fire your hips any faster? I had a spinal fusion and need a swing that doesn’t require as much bend as hips clear.
You should look at Rob Cheney videos. He sets up a really useful grid to help with set up and explains everything in detail and how to turn, ball position etc. Love your videos!
Yes to Rob Cheney he's an expert.
I will not compare your level with mine ... as I'm a bogey player at best at the moment. But in context of your game ... stack and tilt might be molded to something that would feel more natural for you. Conditions seem to be rough. Keep it coming Rob. Stay metal dude, Eric. 🤘😎🤘
Made the right decision Rob leave the stack and tilt alone!
Great video Rob. I changed to S&T about 4 months ago and have seen great improvements in ball striking, distance and consistency. I understand it’s not for everyone but for someone like me who can’t hit buckets of balls 5, 6 days a week I feel it’s a method that can drop you right back into a consistent form if you haven’t hit balls/played in a few days.
I would say I use ‘elements’ of the method. Weight on left side about 65% at address….left ear over ball giving me nice spine angle at set up with all irons….I feel as though I just pivot around left leg while weight stays the same…..I would use a towel under the right armpit at the range to encourage upper body rotation in backswing and downswing to stay in rhythm. My only issue with this method is over active hands through impact which I can relate to your pull draw on the first hole with.
Did you use exact same technique hitting driver?? All my irons are consistent with this method except when hitting my 2 iron hybrid and driver. I have to go back to a more neutral weight distribution at address to achieve some consistency.
Only other problem I had was the increase in distance completely threw my distance control off. Played a par 5 at my local club with my buddy and he couldn’t believe I was pin high from 190 with a 7 iron 😂😂😂
Rob, I like your video’s and your honesty about your golf, on your last video you were striking the ball so well, IMO, you should do what feels best, the reason I say this is, golf is to be enjoyed so do the things that work for you, we can all do more putting, maybe a putting clinic may help? Great content keep it up.
Cheers, Richard. You're absolutely right. As for the putting, I just need to practise, but it's not very appealing in the weather we've got at the moment!
Great video, awful weather. I converted to S&T due to a bad hip. Changed my iron game quickly but still can't hit the driver as it feels odd like you said. With that said 2 rounds in the rain is probably not enough to toss S&T in the bin.
s&t can make the swing very in to out. due to weight being very left there is a tendency to turn the club too far around the body on the back swing and flat and out on the way through. if the club face is too closed to path it's going to duck hook. Best to pick your hands up higher in the back swing as a feel and let the club drop naturally before you swing through. This is what I have been doing and it's working for me. baby draws instead of hooks now. keep it up is what I would say as it is a simple swing and gets you into position without having to think about it.
I turned to s&t during lockdown and been hooked ever since. Makes the swing a little but more understandable for the average golfer. It also means the various instructors on YT all talk about same things. You seemed to take to it straight away but you can clearly play a bit so can probably play using s&t or traditional swing thoughts.
The basics are that same , just the weight transfer really .
Too many comments, observations and questions to come from 1 12minute video! In no particular order, here goes!
You were striping it in horrible conditions! 2 pulled iron shots is probably just a bit of a timing issue.
No one ever found a golf game on you tube! Especially someone who's already really good!
It's winter, get some proper socks man!
Do stack and tilt have a putting equivalent?
Love the videos Rob!
I've never heard of stack and tilt till you. I thought you were absolutely striping your long shots. If it feels wrong and makes it rain I don't want any part of that. I struggle enough lol.
I tried Stack and tilt and loved the instant improvement.I’m a few months in and feel that now I don’t consciously feel the weight is stacked on the front foot too much,it feels more natural over time. I’d say give a touch longer to bed in and get a putting lesson for Gods sake!😂
You should see lewis sparrow golf, he doesn't proclaimed to be a stack and tilt guy , and he didn't tried too..but if you see in his IG and UA-cam channel, it's the perfect blend between conventional swing and s&t, and for me his swing is magnificent,it's up there with tour pros , and it doesn't come in a few month of practice
His swing is so pure 😍
Love stack and tilt..check out Jim venetos too..stillness is the key to either method.
No No No Rob... Don't give up as the previous comment before mine suggests.
Unless I have an eyesight problem, you're literally playing off of scratch but having a terrible time with putting at the moment .
I changed to that style and my ball striking is sweet, my divots actually look like a divot is supposed to.
Give it a chance brother..
Nice content. What you are doing is your interpretation of stack and tilt. I think it’s fair to evaluate it properly with a S&T coach.. personally what I love about it that its a systematic approach, a framework to work from..so you are never endlessly searching and moving from the latest fad to another. It’s the only instruction where I find coaches being clear accountable and consistent with their instruction. Personally I find most golf instructors are vague and inconsistent.
All being said, it depends on if it improves your performance but more importantly your ability to and lose dependency on a golf instructor or article to give you a fix / feel to only get lost again…everyone is different..For me it has been great…feels always change but frameworks and alignments do not.
Hey Rob welcome back. The secret is in the dirt. Stick with it just practice the way you did when you were serious last time. All it does is simplify things. Goodluck
Heres a tip. Before those short putts just accept that you might miss it. Then youll be free to make it. You can feel the tension through the screen.
Swing looks great with the Driver
I went down the S&T route eventually started to reverse pivot.
I tried it and hooked a lot of shots. You had a very good swing before so I think you should work on the old swing
In my experience, it's good for shorter irons. When I hit the longer irons and woods, i load up on the back foot. It gives me a lot more rotation and consistency. It's like anything in life, each to their own!!
Rob one thing I've noticed is you have a very nice fluidity to your swing. How tight/loosely are you holding the club? What would you say is your grip pressure is on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the lightest and 10 being the tightest?
Loved this, cant help thinking the stack/tilt thing is taking what is a pretty solid swing and keeping you centered. Btw, have you tried a line on your ball when putting? For shorter putts it really helps as you a) forget line, its a given and you trust it b) focus 100% on pace and being positive c) the small target of the line really improves strike. I switched last year and have gone from a 32-34 putts a round down to 28. Don't line up longer ones but for 3-10ft its killer. Worth a try?
I used to always use a line for putting, not really sure why I stopped! Will get back on it.
Spot on ,its just a formula for selling books etc. That said you can always take something away from such an experiment & i daresay it does work for some. Gravity golf,David Lee has some great advantages but hard to do under pressure.great video.
Buy four foundations of golf excellent book. Definitely go for a putting lesson. Just enjoy golf. Also try and play with better golfers. I’m off 1 I played with guys off +1 and +3 I learn so much from them.
I’d suggest you keep doing whatever you were doing there with your driver. Hitting that great 👍 Keeping your weight on your left is something I do with my wedges and I find it promotes a good, consistent strike which makes for better distance control. Not sure what’s happened with your short putting though. That was always a strength when you were really putting in the practice. Definitely between the ears that 😬
Driver has been going well for a while with any swing thought! Putting needs a bit of practice...
Also watch your posture rob youre falling back on your heels a bit on your downswing try to stay down more at impact feel like youre gonna fat it. If you draw a circle around your head on video youll see quickly the movement
I tried it and ended up with a very similar conclusion. As with most things in life with time you end up doing too much of it. Therefore it wasn’t long before I was putting too much weight on my lead foot and I was topping shots. One thing I will say is your swing is great as is. I can’t help but think if all of those 4ft putts go in you would have come away with a completely different opinion. Whatever it is your searching for I throughly enjoy your documentation of the journey. 👏
I try to literally not care about golfing, it helps my body relax and with a relaxed body your swings will be buttery smooth. Your main issue in this round just looked like putting.
You hit the ball really well, I've not seen many of your other videos where you've played with a more traditional swing so can't say whether or not you're better using it, however, had you not putted like a 50 handicapper you'd have been about level par in those horrendous conditions which would have been very impressive.
I think that might be offensive to 50-handicappers! short game needs a bit of practice, I think...
@@RobMcGarr you should read Bob Rotella's 'Putting out of your mind' if you haven't already, in fact all his books on golf are excellent.
If you over do the weight on the lead side it will cause you to flip the club.
All the pros talk about the first three or four inches in the backswing which puts weight rightly on your right side immediately. Which means to move it back those three or four inches you need to start with about 60% weight on back foot which will increase to 80% in a milisecond then push off back foot hips turn, and the golf club comes crashing down.
Rob or anyone reading the comments, which one youtube Stack and Tilt video would you recommend to watch? there are almost too many out there!
I'd try this: go.saguto.golf/
Do Eureka golf swing
Great results from that and very consistent
Stack & Tilt seemed to help with your driver. You didn't miss too many fairways. Is a draw your normal shot?
Whatever approach to swinging you take - I like Stack and Tilt personally - spend your time practicing wedges, short irons and putting, that's where you'll make your score given how well you drive it - best of luck however you go about it.
This
100% agree mate.
I apologize in advance for giving advice in the comments section, I know it's cringe worthy. But putting the stack and tilt aside, I simply couldn't help but notice that you miss nearly every putt just right of target with your face balanced putter. You may be very well served to try some putters with a bit to moderate toe hang. I had the same issue and same miss as yourself with the same putter you are currently playing and changing to a toe hang putter made a world of difference. Just a thought, thatnks for the video.
I think I just need to put a little practice in with the putting, something I haven't really done in a lonnnnnng time!
I'm coming to the exact same conclusion. It helps to get the weight forward. I can swing irons with it but the long clubs just don't seem to work.
You might want to check out the My swing evolution over the top swing...... It'll probably feel a bit more natural
Nearly all your missed putts was to the right again. Might be worth thinking about. 🤔 👍🏻
You hit 300+ drives mostly on the fairway and you want to give up?
Your irons were a bit hooky, maybe re-think that area only.
Have you tried stack and tilt with the putter? 😉
I read a lot on stack and tilt and my conclusion (take it with a pinch of salt!) is that as long as you transfer weight onto your lead foot nearing impact with head & chest over/just in front of the ball too, then the strike is ‘crispy’. I moved to a more conventional swing as 100% of pro golfers cannot be wrong! Sounds like you have too…
For me S & T helped me understand golf better, low point, shaft lean, compression that I can then take to other swings. A bit of a Rosetta stone
@@nepheshr290 That's a good way of looking at it!
“As long as you transfer your weight” I thought S&T was about not transferring your weight.
I had a 25 handicap switch to stack and tilt two years later. I have a nine handicap. The reason why people don’t like it the driver feels wrong at first. The driver feels great now. It’s so easy I don’t know why they teach a different technique
PS. After bombing a drive over 300 yards I now have a more powerful erection
I was dying watching you putt then. Maybe have a video on a putting lesson? You hit a lot of GIR but your pace was well off. Keep the videos coming, it’s good following your journey
Need to do some putting practice f'sure!
Looks like you need some short game work. Other than that, -a few miss hits, seems like it's working well for you.
Short game definitely needs some love!
i came up with the same conclusion.. tried it for awhile and it wasn't working for me.. makes sense but i think it make you one dimensional and it's more for people who struggle.. as a 5 handicap it wasn't a good idea to try it and i shot back up to 8-9 and now back down to 6 .. i think it could work for some but it wasn't for me.. i took a couple things from it like keeping more weight on my lead side but that's about it
I would say stick with it. You hit some great shots. No golf swing promises you wil never hit a few bad ones. Maybe give Eureka a shot. 😮
You were crushing the ball, by your own account, and because it feels different you’re giving up? I’m so confused.
You looked really good with driver, there isn’t one swing for everything.
Driver has been going great for a while with any swing!
Stack and tilt looks good for you, it appears your tempo just really fast
Tempo gets fast when not comfortable, I find 🤔
Interesting that your swing doesnt look stack & tilt at all. But your drives were great.
Stack and Tilt wrecked my left knee and back. All that loaded torque on the left side took me out of golf for almost 2 years. .
I was never a decent iron player with any of the clubs longer than the wedge. I was so jealous of my pal who could smoke those irons to the greens and rip out a divot in front of the ball not behind it like me. I tried S&T, and guess what? I'm still jealous because I don't have the talent, balance and strength he has. But hey, try it anyway it might work for you.
Stack and tilt takes time to develop. I would say for an average player like me, try it at least for 2 to 3 months. Stand closer to your putts and you’ll stop pushing them.
hmm I always felt that the worst day of stack and tilt feels alot better than my worst day of regular swing. However.. regular swing on good days is just awesome which is a feeling i do not get with stack and tilt
Go and have a look at Jim Venetos. It's not stack & tilt, it is weight on the front and a closed stance, except for putting which is weight on the back foot with an open stance, BUT it's very different and it works. At the very least give it a try
Stack and tilt took me from 110-115 to 90-92 consistently.
Rob i need your help bro i commented on your old videos months ago but you havent reached out i am losing my hair and i am 24 turning 25 soon does that suck man? Does it suck to be losing your hair (balding) at only 24 years of age? What should i do about it bro? I recently shaved my head was that a good thing? If i want to have hair again what do you suggest i do? Please let me know in a response asap 🤞😌
I'm sure I replied to one of your other comments but I'd say that at some point every guy realises it's not worth worrying so much about hair loss - life is too short and there are more important things to focus on. My advice would be to get to that point as soon as you can; I certainly wish I'd got there sooner! Watch some Baldcafe videos - they should help speed up the process.
Have you watched Zen Golf Mechanic, Marcus Bell?
I have. Mentioned in a video a while ago that going to see those guys is one avenue I'm considering. I also had this lesson years ago which was a similar thing: ua-cam.com/video/nCouVHCy1go/v-deo.html
Going to Zen would make a great video, but tbf rob there's not much wrong with your game.
It may be a late comment but your swing with s&t looks very similar to a pga pros swing. Super centered over the ball.
What was the song at the end there?
'In the Rain' by Flagship.
@@RobMcGarr ah okay cool, thought it was someone else
@@Stephenpettitt198 Sounds like The National to me.
@@RobMcGarr oh yeah does a bit, I thought it might be Conor Oberst/Bright eyes but that would be unlikely for a golf video
The putter killed you and gave you a lack of confidence on your game , but i think your bad shots they were no that bad actually,but who am i to tell you how to play. Keep up the hard work ,all the best
Just once I'd like to swing a golf club like Mike Bennett and have it on video. My body says no.
When I am checking your swings in 0.25 speed, you don’t always S&T. On range almost all of them were S&T.
Putting. Lesson. Essential.
Putting. Practice. Needed.
@@RobMcGarr Absolutely Rob, I struggle with my putting too.
Wellputt mat inside has helped, it's much better for pressure practice than other mats as it comes with games on the app (you can download and recreate similar games if you have a mat)
My new years resolutions for putting (during winter) are,
Putting mat 2x a week, 36 holes, 3 goes a hole so about 109 putts when I do that session.
10 x putts down a ruler 2x a week
Eyeline and gate drill, 10 putts, 2 x a week.
Plan will change when weather gets better to get using proper holes but for now this will do.
I was hitting a lot of pull hooks too. So I gave up.
I think SandT is a shot to have in you bag but not your main swing, basically if you have a shot where you want to keep the ball low and a bit left with power use the s and t
Our swings are very similar and i see one of your main issues like mine is hip position at impact. We should talk i can help. Im a teacher
Look Rob work on your putting your a good golfer you can drive your score down with or without S and T
Stack and tilt is really how all pros hit.
Also rob I think you do yourself an injustice...look at the weather your playing ffs man 🤣🤣🤣 game and swing looks good to me ...do you put to much pressure on yourself maybe🤷♂️
Maybe... 😃
I think making a final conclusion after
one effort on a crappy day is a bit rash. Looking at you putts, I dont think you were at your optimum
to begin with.
Your off your head boy. Your strikes and driver were class. Shit weather and bad putting. Putting had nothing to do with swing. If you had your conventional swing you would have been double bogey and more on some of those holes
Switch to Milo Lines Golf.
Putting and your mental game you let it all get on top of you, but on the range where there’s no pressure you was flushing it 🤷🏼♂️
Is golf too bloody hard 🤣🤣🤣 that's my conclusion of this game ...enjoy it and work on 2 things only
If you don't want your s&t swing ,can l have it.
Haha I sometimes watch this back and think I didn't give it enough credit!
Currently only 4 minutes through the video, but already want to comment. Can we please call a 40 yard pull draw by it's proper name, "a tiny weenie mistake easily made by even the best of us" as it sounds much less negative and my fragile psyche won't survive another 11 minutes or so of such blasphemy. I have been known to call such a shot a near miss! Now, on with the rest of the video.....
Haha, it was a near miss for those poor sheep!
It doesn’t works for driver and it’s been proven by trackman