I’m middle aged, athletic, but not a racer - have had lots of low back issues in the past, so a good bike fit was important. My LBS owner worked hard to get me onto the right bike for my body - eventually selling me a Domane SL 6, which I’m very happy with. Have ridden it thousands of miles with no low back issues at all.
I work for a local Trek shop and we do everything we can to accommodate trying s bike, short of an actual fit (a service we charge for). We understand the ever looming on line threat and combat it with over expected service. We want our customers experience to be exceptional. No just because we want to sell books, but because it's the right thing to do . Your experience is that which is pushing peole to online retailers. That's awful and I'm sorry it happened.
There's reason on line is out selling bike shops, most shops are run by snotty a holes. Try being a middle aged woman and walking into a bike shop to buy a 8K road bike. My rule is if they try to steer me towards a hybrid I'm out of there haha! I also have experienced being completely ignored. I finally found a shop that takes me seriously. I have been riding bikes my entire adult life. Fast bikes! Now that I am getting older I don't want to slow down but I do want to be more comfortable so I bought a project one Domane it's a H 1.5 so still pretty aggressive but very comfortable and I love it!! My bike is a 2021 model available in H 2.0 and H 1.5 through project one. Loved the frame comparisons, thanks!
I just bought a new 2019 Domane SL6 at Jerry and Sparky's Cycle and Fitness in Davenport Iowa. I was immediately offered a test ride. Pedals were installed and saddle height adjusted in minutes. Also received a discount price and a 10% discount on all accessories. I will support my LBS!
Post sciatic surgery I went and test rode 4 bikes (Trek Domane, Giant Defy, Specialised Rubaix and Can Synapse) and , for me, the Domane SLR was the clear winner in comfort and handling. The SLR bit is important because it has the adjustable rear end. (SL just the front and rear iso thingies). So when my back feels good and I want to push it, I can adjust the rear to tighten things up. And vice versa. Most models are the h2 fit, but the top-of-the-range one you showed was H1. For pros mainly and sort of defeats the whole object of the design. Such endurance bikes are the one bit of pro tech that is applicable for the MAMIL market. And here is something you'll never read in the (cobble) reviews. The Domane SLR descends like no other bike I have ever ridden. 28 mm tyres and effectively damped rear end mean it handles like a motorbike. You just lean and lean and the back-end stays put over bumps. Your mate would be even faster... downhill at least :)
That's crazy! At my shop I do a full pr test ride size assessment and fit the bike for every customer before every test ride. I'm at a trek/specialized/cdale/pinarello dealer FYI.
Good question. Fitting is critical, as cyclists are prone to repetitive motion injuries. One 3 hour ride at an 85 cadence is 15,300 push/pull revolutions of the knee, hip, and ankle joints. Best, to find a certified bike fitter who are also a practicing rehabilitation specialist, ie: physio, sports medicine (your own rehab practitioners might know someone), and have them do a personalized assessment of your physical profile that takes into consideration type or riding, flexibility, leg length discrepancies, weight, other injuries, and my favorite "mindset" (how well you see yourself, can prevent injury) and help you not only with fit-fine-tuning, but recommend strengthening and flexibility work, that will ultimately put you on the right path to enjoyment on that new bike for many years to come.
I've had a bike fit and it solved a lot of issues that I was going to physical therapy for (shin splints, low back pulling, too much weight on the bars, shoulders). All went away after getting fit, went with different width bars, different length cranks, wider seat, and then dialed in the reach to have 80% weight on the back and 20% on the front. If the budget allows I say the bike fit is just as important as the bike. But you need to find an experienced and qualified bike fitter. I've been to 3 over the years and there is a difference depending on level of experience.
Many stores are corporate owned. That person was probably instructed to act that way. Most people want to be helpful. It is not normal to refuse something as simple as that. Although- I can say I also sensed some major attitudes in a Trek store I recently visited. I commented to a fellow customer who was admiring some bikes- gave him a courtesy heads up that "they would not have a bike in his size." They did not have any bikes big enough for me and he was ~2" taller than me. He completely ignored me like I was dirt. Thinking he didn't hear me, although we were very near each other, I then explained that they didn't have any Large sizes that fit me, so given he is taller than me... He very clearly heard me both time, but just looked past me without as much as a casual grin. I was not seeking a conversation! He really thought he was something special. He probably is on a professional level (if you can buy a $5k bike), but not so much on a personal level if you can treat others that poorly. It's probably not really good karma.
The bike shop should absolutely adjust the bike to see if it's there right bike for you. Attitudes like that bike shop are exactly WHY bike shops lose customers to online. My bike shop had amazing customer relations.
Definitely should have adjusted. But the LBS worded it wrong. Should have been sure we can adjust it but you will get a free bike fit if you decide to purchase and you might end up wanting something a little different.
Omg,this happened to me today.i practically had to tell him where I bought my previous bikes so he knew I didn’t buy online just so he would adjust the saddle. Bottom line the bike I was looking at Cannondale synapse was not good for me,and I won’t be returning to the shop again!
Emonda sl6 disc h2, even though most of you don't like em'. Ya never gotta mess with them and you get a torsional ridgity too. I think the iso frames will ride smooth til one day it'll crap out and you'll have a wet noodle for a frame that may or may not be serviceable.
After reviewing the current Trek bike prices I am changing my ethical standards with regards to bike theft. 10k bikes are for pros and guys that ride in groups on Wed evenings.
a bike fit is way more than just moving the seat up (eg. changing stem length, flipping stems, changing position of brifters, chranklength, etc)... ep for race bikes.... theyre also skepticle of why someone w a bad back who hasnt done any research is iterested in buying a $9000 race bike
I would not go back! First, you need a bike fit to establish the reach which will add or detract from riding comfort if not done or not done correctly. Secondly, if the shop owner is concerned about losing sales to online, he/she should go the extra mile to ensure the "in person" experience is always top notch. Seems like a simple application of the old "Golden Rule" to me!
Yup. I often buy stuff online because it's cheaper and more convenient but if I need some help and go to a store and get the help I wanted I'll buy it right there even if it costs a more. But if they won't help me or only reluctantly give me some info I'll probably end up buying it online after all because I'm not gonna pay for shit service. Also likely not gonna pick up other stuff while I'm there and might not be returning. Especially with a bike store.
A fit, for most non-pro's should take ~5 minutes provided. This assumes that the retailer has an intent to offer quality service. It also assumes that the employee(s) know what they are doing. It's really not rocket science. Like so many things, they intentionally try to make it complicated so that they charge for a service. Local shops should out compete them by offering free bike fit days! Watch the line around the store. If you are a pro (or wanna be pro) and have strong preferences based on your unique riding style, goals and you are spending a lot of time in the saddle; and dropping a lot of money, then a more in depth analysis could make sense. If a person has a bad back, swimming would be a far better endeavor than riding on a hard, bumpy rode where they could also fall hard. In most cases, the Domane line will probably be the most comfortable but riding can certainly create and/or exacerbate lower back issues.
If you live in hilly place, ride over mountains up and down (TREK emonda SL and SLR) is very good for that. Madone has 2 fit. H1 and H2. If you're not going to race check 9.0 version frame on trek project one. Upgrade wheels and tires, whatever you want. Madone is really confortable bike like Domane. But not that aero dynamic as Canyon aeroad cf slx i think
The bike shop did a very understandable offer, you can't just go and try Madone's and other high spec bikes and ask the bike shop to adjust them for you. They have to sell that bike after, imagine if everyone will want to try that Madone, after few weeks they will be forced to sell it as a used bike.
So from what I understand, they don't make a H2 anymore...its 1.5. Also the bar is longer in a 1.5 or H1 vs an H2 slightly. So not only will he reach lower, but a bit further. I think most of this can be solved by just getting a stem raised with spacers. It doesn't solve everything but pretty close....perhaps with a shorter stem as well.
Thanks for a great video. I’m currently having this debate. I bought a Madone 5.2 in 2014 and can’t ride it for too long anymore, have been seriously looking at a Domane, all I have to do now is find one #nostockanywhere, cheers.
I would invest in a bike fit. Then with that information see which models would suit. Even if he wanted the Madone he could raise and shorten the stem to suit him.
Thank you for the great, generally objective, information. I am deciding between the Canyon Endurace and the BMC Roadmachine. If you get a chance, I am just interested in your thoughts as you are obviously a very knowledgeable person. Thanks again. You've got a new subscriber. Much luck with your channel.
l m pretty both my LBS will give a full bike fit with all bike purchases of road bikes and will allow test rides one has an indoor track of sorts. Other lets you take it out and if you re a regular bike buyer take it home for the weekend .
Interesting video thanks. Is there any chance you could compare the trek Boone and checkpoint against the domaine and Émonda. The stack and reach is almost identical on the Boone and Émonda but all the other measurements are very different. The reason I’m interested is cause I’m wondering if I can get away with a Boone as both my road and gravel bike. Cheers
thanks for the comment - good idea. I am currently working on a video comparing the Canyon Inflite and Grail, so your idea would compliment this maybe as my next video, thanks.
Pre-bike-buying fit is a great idea. They offered him a free fit, and he refused? That's insane. As to the most comfortable bike, it's the Domane, hands down. Endurance geometry with iso-speed at front and back.
It's the same with bikeshops where you can't testride or they won't let you testride. Yoù're willing to spend a few 1000k on a bike but testriding....noooo not possible! That's a bye bye for me!
First if I was spending that much cash I’d get a bike fit for sure Second , I bet bike shops get sick of people going in a bike testing before leaving and purchasing off internet Exercising your right as a consumer sometimes upsets bike shops , it doesn’t make them black list shops #protectlocalshops
That's an odd shop and definitely not behavior approved by Trek. There's no reason why he can't quickly adjust the saddle height to give you a good idea. Unless he was saying that he couldnt adjust it enough for your friend and that they needed to order a different size?
Had a bike fit. In my view was a waste of time and money. You can't beat just getting your leg over a bike and feeling yourself. If the shop is unhelpful then go somewhere else.
I an with the bikeshop on that one. What does a bad back even mean? Is that a doctors diagnosis? This sounds ridiculous in the first place etc. I want to build a stonefence but I have a bad back. Or I want to become a weigt lifter, but i have a bad back. Or I want to become a college professor, but I have a low IQ. back muscles are a part of it a part of sport so you better start training them. Saddle adjustment might not be very good for a bike. Also expensive ones have a carbon seatpost, so there the adjustment might be even worse, might leave lines on the seatpost etc. Your friend should buy a 400-700€ bike first to see if he really wants to cycle. Excuse my bad grammatics.
Hello Peeter, thanks for your comment - I didn't want it to be a technical reference video of how to diagnose back pain - but the guy in question suffers from compressed vertebrae damage and was looking at a 7k bike because he is fast as f#ck. I take your comment about scratching the seatpost, but it highlights the issues we face trying to buy bikes that cost as much as cars sometimes without being able to try them out, especially when we have a confirmed medical diagnosis from a medical professional.
This Bike Shop is a CHEAT. What is the point of visiting a bike shop if you cant even alter the seat height to check what suits u better. Boycott this chap for sure.
I’m middle aged, athletic, but not a racer - have had lots of low back issues in the past, so a good bike fit was important. My LBS owner worked hard to get me onto the right bike for my body - eventually selling me a Domane SL 6, which I’m very happy with. Have ridden it thousands of miles with no low back issues at all.
I work for a local Trek shop and we do everything we can to accommodate trying s bike, short of an actual fit (a service we charge for). We understand the ever looming on line threat and combat it with over expected service. We want our customers experience to be exceptional. No just because we want to sell books, but because it's the right thing to do . Your experience is that which is pushing peole to online retailers. That's awful and I'm sorry it happened.
There's reason on line is out selling bike shops, most shops are run by snotty a holes. Try being a middle aged woman and walking into a bike shop to buy a 8K road bike. My rule is if they try to steer me towards a hybrid I'm out of there haha! I also have experienced being completely ignored. I finally found a shop that takes me seriously. I have been riding bikes my entire adult life. Fast bikes! Now that I am getting older I don't want to slow down but I do want to be more comfortable so I bought a project one Domane it's a H 1.5 so still pretty aggressive but very comfortable and I love it!! My bike is a 2021 model available in H 2.0 and H 1.5 through project one. Loved the frame comparisons, thanks!
I just bought a new 2019 Domane SL6 at Jerry and Sparky's Cycle and Fitness in Davenport Iowa. I was immediately offered a test ride. Pedals were installed and saddle height adjusted in minutes. Also received a discount price and a 10% discount on all accessories. I will support my LBS!
is it good with bad roads like full of potholes ?
Post sciatic surgery I went and test rode 4 bikes (Trek Domane, Giant Defy, Specialised Rubaix and Can Synapse) and , for me, the Domane SLR was the clear winner in comfort and handling. The SLR bit is important because it has the adjustable rear end. (SL just the front and rear iso thingies). So when my back feels good and I want to push it, I can adjust the rear to tighten things up. And vice versa. Most models are the h2 fit, but the top-of-the-range one you showed was H1. For pros mainly and sort of defeats the whole object of the design. Such endurance bikes are the one bit of pro tech that is applicable for the MAMIL market. And here is something you'll never read in the (cobble) reviews. The Domane SLR descends like no other bike I have ever ridden. 28 mm tyres and effectively damped rear end mean it handles like a motorbike. You just lean and lean and the back-end stays put over bumps. Your mate would be even faster... downhill at least :)
That's crazy! At my shop I do a full pr test ride size assessment and fit the bike for every customer before every test ride. I'm at a trek/specialized/cdale/pinarello dealer FYI.
I bet your customers come back!
what is your bike shop?
Good animations. Really shows the difference between the geometries.
Good question. Fitting is critical, as cyclists are prone to repetitive motion injuries. One 3 hour ride at an 85 cadence is 15,300 push/pull revolutions of the knee, hip, and ankle joints.
Best, to find a certified bike fitter who are also a practicing rehabilitation specialist, ie: physio, sports medicine (your own rehab practitioners might know someone), and have them do a personalized assessment of your physical profile that takes into consideration type or riding, flexibility, leg length discrepancies, weight, other injuries, and my favorite "mindset" (how well you see yourself, can prevent injury) and help you not only with fit-fine-tuning, but recommend strengthening and flexibility work, that will ultimately put you on the right path to enjoyment on that new bike for many years to come.
I've had a bike fit and it solved a lot of issues that I was going to physical therapy for (shin splints, low back pulling, too much weight on the bars, shoulders). All went away after getting fit, went with different width bars, different length cranks, wider seat, and then dialed in the reach to have 80% weight on the back and 20% on the front. If the budget allows I say the bike fit is just as important as the bike. But you need to find an experienced and qualified bike fitter. I've been to 3 over the years and there is a difference depending on level of experience.
Trek should dump that shop as a Trek retailer.
Many stores are corporate owned. That person was probably instructed to act that way. Most people want to be helpful. It is not normal to refuse something as simple as that. Although- I can say I also sensed some major attitudes in a Trek store I recently visited. I commented to a fellow customer who was admiring some bikes- gave him a courtesy heads up that "they would not have a bike in his size." They did not have any bikes big enough for me and he was ~2" taller than me. He completely ignored me like I was dirt. Thinking he didn't hear me, although we were very near each other, I then explained that they didn't have any Large sizes that fit me, so given he is taller than me... He very clearly heard me both time, but just looked past me without as much as a casual grin. I was not seeking a conversation! He really thought he was something special. He probably is on a professional level (if you can buy a $5k bike), but not so much on a personal level if you can treat others that poorly. It's probably not really good karma.
10/10 This is a great video. Really shows the difference between Trek's frame sets. I'd love to see similar vids for all the popular brands.
The bike shop should absolutely adjust the bike to see if it's there right bike for you. Attitudes like that bike shop are exactly WHY bike shops lose customers to online. My bike shop had amazing customer relations.
Definitely should have adjusted. But the LBS worded it wrong. Should have been sure we can adjust it but you will get a free bike fit if you decide to purchase and you might end up wanting something a little different.
Omg,this happened to me today.i practically had to tell him where I bought my previous bikes so he knew I didn’t buy online just so he would adjust the saddle. Bottom line the bike I was looking at Cannondale synapse was not good for me,and I won’t be returning to the shop again!
Very helpful. I’ve also noticed that the geometries have changed a lot based on model years.
I think your mate will continue to have a bad back 😂
Emonda sl6 disc h2, even though most of you don't like em'. Ya never gotta mess with them and you get a torsional ridgity too. I think the iso frames will ride smooth til one day it'll crap out and you'll have a wet noodle for a frame that may or may not be serviceable.
I"ve actually bought two Trek bikes because of the great experience I've had with their dealers
Could you do a video with the Specialized Roubaix and the Trek Domane?
That bike shop is begging to shut down with that attitude. Amazing...
Would you married someone without going on a date? Which shop is that so I won't go there!
haha, get married, are you mad!! I ride bikes!!
After reviewing the current Trek bike prices I am changing my ethical standards with regards to bike theft. 10k bikes are for pros and guys that ride in groups on Wed evenings.
Nothing is more fun than watching an athlete on an old steel bike pass a full carbon 10k bike! Like Lance said- "It's not about the bike."
Thanks for the video. Can you do a similar comparison between the Specialized Diverge and Tarmac?
Thanks for this. I never knew about the H1 and H2 head tube options. I thought the Domane was treks only comfort race option.
a bike fit is way more than just moving the seat up (eg. changing stem length, flipping stems, changing position of brifters, chranklength, etc)... ep for race bikes.... theyre also skepticle of why someone w a bad back who hasnt done any research is iterested in buying a $9000 race bike
I would not go back! First, you need a bike fit to establish the reach which will add or detract from riding comfort if not done or not done correctly. Secondly, if the shop owner is concerned about losing sales to online, he/she should go the extra mile to ensure the "in person" experience is always top notch. Seems like a simple application of the old "Golden Rule" to me!
Yup. I often buy stuff online because it's cheaper and more convenient but if I need some help and go to a store and get the help I wanted I'll buy it right there even if it costs a more. But if they won't help me or only reluctantly give me some info I'll probably end up buying it online after all because I'm not gonna pay for shit service. Also likely not gonna pick up other stuff while I'm there and might not be returning.
Especially with a bike store.
A fit, for most non-pro's should take ~5 minutes provided. This assumes that the retailer has an intent to offer quality service. It also assumes that the employee(s) know what they are doing. It's really not rocket science. Like so many things, they intentionally try to make it complicated so that they charge for a service. Local shops should out compete them by offering free bike fit days! Watch the line around the store. If you are a pro (or wanna be pro) and have strong preferences based on your unique riding style, goals and you are spending a lot of time in the saddle; and dropping a lot of money, then a more in depth analysis could make sense.
If a person has a bad back, swimming would be a far better endeavor than riding on a hard, bumpy rode where they could also fall hard. In most cases, the Domane line will probably be the most comfortable but riding can certainly create and/or exacerbate lower back issues.
If you live in hilly place, ride over mountains up and down (TREK emonda SL and SLR) is very good for that.
Madone has 2 fit. H1 and H2. If you're not going to race check 9.0 version frame on trek project one. Upgrade wheels and tires, whatever you want. Madone is really confortable bike like Domane. But not that aero dynamic as Canyon aeroad cf slx i think
The bike shop did a very understandable offer, you can't just go and try Madone's and other high spec bikes and ask the bike shop to adjust them for you. They have to sell that bike after, imagine if everyone will want to try that Madone, after few weeks they will be forced to sell it as a used bike.
So from what I understand, they don't make a H2 anymore...its 1.5. Also the bar is longer in a 1.5 or H1 vs an H2 slightly. So not only will he reach lower, but a bit further. I think most of this can be solved by just getting a stem raised with spacers. It doesn't solve everything but pretty close....perhaps with a shorter stem as well.
I'm considering on the Domane AL3 or AL2 to replace my B'Twin Triban 500
Thanks for a great video. I’m currently having this debate. I bought a Madone 5.2 in 2014 and can’t ride it for too long anymore, have been seriously looking at a Domane, all I have to do now is find one #nostockanywhere, cheers.
If you are still looking- I know someone with a 56 SL6 4 sale.
Unbelievable it would take less than 5 mins to figure out the guys ROUGH saddle height and adjust the seat. Not like he's giving anything away there.
Exactly right!
Yes they should help at the shop. If they don’t then the end will come soon because of the online stores
Its my opinion that THATS BAD SALESMENSHIP & I thought anyone with a bad back would be looking for a Trek Hybrid that sits higher up?
I would invest in a bike fit. Then with that information see which models would suit. Even if he wanted the Madone he could raise and shorten the stem to suit him.
Thank you for the great, generally objective, information. I am deciding between the Canyon Endurace and the BMC Roadmachine. If you get a chance, I am just interested in your thoughts as you are obviously a very knowledgeable person. Thanks again. You've got a new subscriber. Much luck with your channel.
Cheers mate - have a look through my videos, lots on the 2 bikes you are considering.
@@bikotic -Will do. Thank you.
l m pretty both my LBS will give a full bike fit with all bike purchases of road bikes and will allow test rides one has an indoor track of sorts. Other lets you take it out and if you re a regular bike buyer take it home for the weekend .
Interesting video thanks. Is there any chance you could compare the trek Boone and checkpoint against the domaine and Émonda. The stack and reach is almost identical on the Boone and Émonda but all the other measurements are very different. The reason I’m interested is cause I’m wondering if I can get away with a Boone as both my road and gravel bike. Cheers
thanks for the comment - good idea. I am currently working on a video comparing the Canyon Inflite and Grail, so your idea would compliment this maybe as my next video, thanks.
Pre-bike-buying fit is a great idea. They offered him a free fit, and he refused? That's insane. As to the most comfortable bike, it's the Domane, hands down. Endurance geometry with iso-speed at front and back.
It's the same with bikeshops where you can't testride or they won't let you testride. Yoù're willing to spend a few 1000k on a bike but testriding....noooo not possible! That's a bye bye for me!
I spent 300 USD on a performance bike fit. It's was easily; no close second, the best money I spent on the bike.
I'm not going to your mates bike shop now either, wherever it is. So thats 3 customers he lost.
haha!
Is there much difference in geometry between the Cannondale CAAD12 and Supersix Evo?
Pollex Cristi they share geometry. Exactly the same. Just like the tarmac and allez.
Noice. Might as well get the CAAD12 with better componentry then.
what bike between these 3 is the best for roads full of potholes and shattered glasses from beer bottles
Yes they should, set bikes for you
My neck is what always seems to hurt on a ride.
Think Cross Check is the better idea.
That shop is one of the reasons people buy bikes online.
l like the emonda best when l checked them out at the shop sad the one l liked was $4000 :( outta my price range
some bike shops are nasty.....
First if I was spending that much cash I’d get a bike fit for sure
Second , I bet bike shops get sick of people going in a bike testing before leaving and purchasing off internet
Exercising your right as a consumer sometimes upsets bike shops , it doesn’t make them black list shops #protectlocalshops
peebee1357 I think he exercised his right to walk away from that LBS. No sale, their loss! Always get fitted
That's an odd shop and definitely not behavior approved by Trek. There's no reason why he can't quickly adjust the saddle height to give you a good idea.
Unless he was saying that he couldnt adjust it enough for your friend and that they needed to order a different size?
Short answer: Domane
"normal human being" :)
Had a bike fit. In my view was a waste of time and money. You can't beat just getting your leg over a bike and feeling yourself. If the shop is unhelpful then go somewhere else.
I an with the bikeshop on that one. What does a bad back even mean? Is that a doctors diagnosis? This sounds ridiculous in the first place etc. I want to build a stonefence but I have a bad back. Or I want to become a weigt lifter, but i have a bad back. Or I want to become a college professor, but I have a low IQ. back muscles are a part of it a part of sport so you better start training them. Saddle adjustment might not be very good for a bike. Also expensive ones have a carbon seatpost, so there the adjustment might be even worse, might leave lines on the seatpost etc. Your friend should buy a 400-700€ bike first to see if he really wants to cycle. Excuse my bad grammatics.
Hello Peeter, thanks for your comment - I didn't want it to be a technical reference video of how to diagnose back pain - but the guy in question suffers from compressed vertebrae damage and was looking at a 7k bike because he is fast as f#ck. I take your comment about scratching the seatpost, but it highlights the issues we face trying to buy bikes that cost as much as cars sometimes without being able to try them out, especially when we have a confirmed medical diagnosis from a medical professional.
This Bike Shop is a CHEAT. What is the point of visiting a bike shop if you cant even alter the seat height to check what suits u better. Boycott this chap for sure.
bike shop wankers