As someone who worked in Silicon Valley for decades (now retired) as a software engineer, I find the characterization of China as a huge concern utterly absurd. The Chinese government is not doing anything that the US government and US corps aren't doing. The Chinese are currently open sourcing their AI models while the US corps and US govt are trying to wall them off. I'll tell you which approach I want to win - the open source approach. The worst bad actors are nation-states themselves, and that includes the US. The US has a history of abusing power on the international stage. US corps have a history of abusing consumers. I can't fathom how a US citizen is more afraid of China than the US with AI. I'm far more terrified of the US oligarchs and govt turning the world into an Orwellian dystopia than I am China.
This right here. And all US tech does the same to every other country that uses it as well. I tried this model today & found it was faster & more detailed & focused even in the entry level Han Perplexity Pro. However I noticed there was a notice that they’d been having issues with cyber attacks trying to create problems for them. It’s 1 of one 1/2 dozen of another.
I think that maybe comes from a tech background. I spent some time on modern Chinese history in college. The CCP having more power is not good for anyone but the CCP’s top leaders. That doesn’t mean the US government is soo good and Amazing, but even a deeply flawed democracy with too much power is better then a deeply flawed totalitarian government with too much power.
Funnily enough, Elon made the Tesla design open in order to get enough EVs on the road to make charging station numbers viable. I believe that's the case. And now, Teslas are rusting and falling apart and have crappy paintwork and people are refusing to buy them because of his astonishing hubris. Ain't life grand?!
This used to be called market competition and capitalists said it was necessary to make industry more competitive. Now they call competitors ‘enemies’…
Some people do love "war", and see other people's progress as their loss. Do they lose sleep just because any of their neighbors have new cars or find better jobs?
I heard a statistic that China has more highly educated, honor roll students than America has students, period. Education is valued in China whereas in the US, becoming a billionaire is the most highly valued goal. Think we need a reset?
The US has 4% of the population and a 4-year degree costs 50,000-100,000 dollars. China has 25% of the population and a 4-year degree costs $3200. There is no competition. We aren't big enough for competition to make sense and no one wants us to compete who is in charge of our government, they want us to serve while they compete. 😐
Most Chinese government officials have some kind of engineering backgrounds and typically get promoted based on performance rather than political connections. Unlike in some other countries, where lawyers, TV hosts, or business executives might be appointed as defense secretaries or ambassadors, China tends to prioritize technical and administrative expertise in its leadership.
Right now there are US STEM students and researchers whose studies and research are “paused” due to Trumps games. How that makes the US more competitive in tech is a mystery.
What difference does it make if the US loses to China when the US under Trump is looking to be China (or worse)? The whole reason the world was supposed to care about the battle between American and China was that one of those nations defended democracy, freedom, and open markets. We aren't seeing that from the US, so honestly who cares if the fascists or communists win if those are our two options?
@@goonerOZZ Yes it is inevitable that China will have the biggest economy. (Just from the size of their population and their economic growth.) And that can fund the biggest military too.
@@Goldsteinphoto It goes further than that… There is now “27” books out there on what the Chinese invented first that says the world copied from China the first of those books was published in the 1950s Yet our western Governments, Educational Institutions, Mainstream Media told us the Chinese copy, steal and can’t innovate These days China currently leads the “world” in 57 of 64 critical technologies of the future Where the Chinese don’t hold a clear lead? In the remaining 7 other technologies???? It’s usually the USA that holds the lead or co-lead with China Like AI for example… But then you have this 👇 In One Key A.I. Metric, China Pulls Ahead of the U.S.: Talent Paul Mozur reported from Taipei, Taiwan, and Cade Metz from San Francisco. March 22, 2024 Researchers originally from China now make up 38 percent of the top A.I. researchers working in the United States, with Americans making up 37 percent, according to the research. NYT
The oligarchs are spending their money on cornering the market rather than producing a better more efficient product. Corporate culture is the problem here, as you would expect in an environment where corporate neppbaby carpetbaggers rule the roost instead of engineers. Looking at you Elon. 😊
@@davidrink1291 Haha over half of China doesn't have indoor plumbing and the average American brings in 3 times the Average Chinese. Seems to me like instead of eliminating poverty they just keep everybody poor.
@@davidrink1291 Well the average American brings in 3 times what the average Chinese brings in in a year. Looks to me like instead of eliminating poverty they just kept everybody in it. If everyone is poor nobody is poor I guess.
China is also winning the battle of energy, due to the conservative's regressive dependance on fossil fuels refusing to support modern advances. AI, blockchain, data centers.... we need more energy and the US is refusing to adapt.
Honestly with all the horrifically terrible things happening i'm rooting for China at this point. They prove a nice mix of free market capitalism, and socialism really can work beautifully.
@American_Gooner i think YOU should be the one to do some research lmao. for instance uyghurs, like how US labelled them the T word before they decided to ramp up the anti chyna propaganda and how uyghurs committed acts of T. but i guess people blindly trust western media on that topic
American think they are they best and the smartest especially white American men. However, the Chinese produce top engineers educated in China and India produces top of the line geneticists. Americans voted for rich people to take more from their citizens including education , head start programs and college grants, stem programs while China has the foresight to invest in its people to ensure that their nation comes out on top which it will.
The US generally sucks because it's undergirded by racism and misogyny but it's always easier to appeal to the united sensitivities of a homogeneous society vs a diverse one not tied together specifically by culture
I just asked both DeepSeek and ChatGPT a simple sample question: How do woodchucks and prairie dogs differ? Very fast, good answers from both, except that DeepSeek provided more detail.
@@wadly99 I'm sorry I can't do that Dave. The fact that this is an opensource model is the bigger deal than what data it is trained on. LLMs are fun to play around with for a little bit but it is the small models that companies will create and use that will be a bigger game changer. If I ran a company called Spacely Sprockets and I put all my secret sprocket info into a ChatGPT or something and their data gets leaked someone like that no good nobody Cogswell could take my sprocket secrets and use them for his cogs. If I keep my data in house and use my own model, I don't have to worry about that.
I was watching a video about Fast Times at Ridgemont High, commonly referred to as FTARH. ChapGpt was able to decipher FTARH but DeepSeek was not. They'll each be useful
What Americans fail to understand is that China has educated its people on a scale the world has never seen, deepseek has set back scilicon valley a decade and this is not some dubious plan to over take the world, but made a scientific breakthrough they're willing to share it with the world, can you imagine the difference it'll make to children that won't have the opportunity to experience this technology, because this AI app is free. A big thank you is in order to the Chinese people.
Sorry, but as a non-american, I have the same security concerns about american tech companies. It’s an unfortunate side effect of the global digital world
Remember when Edward Snowden revealed we were wiretapping and recording the entire country of Brazil's cellphones just because we could? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
While America is fighting over stupid crap the Chinese for the past at least four decades have been working hard improving just about every aspect of life in general making amazing strides towards the future. No amount of shock and awe as well as denialism from the west can ignore the facts . We're literally running around a vicious cycle of stupidity while the Chinese are working extremely hard so you expect us to win some kind of prize for that????? America went to China just as the rest of the world did and asked it to become the world's factory and we were all lured in with the cheaper price of a product and the potential for increased profits. So a lot of people made a lot of money but it gave an opportunity for China to come out of the dark ages it was in the '70s to where it's leading the world today. It's that simple it's been going on since then with Giant leaps and bounds. It's amazing how we'll still believe our own propaganda instead of what's actually clearly happening. Most Americans think that the Chinese are only good for cheap takeout food and that's about it. Realize that the Chinese culture has been around for many many many centuries . It's not a young nation that's still trying to figure it out if you know what I mean. They work in slow paces but steady as she goes straight ahead keeping their history in mind and the amount of wisdom that comes from it while crafting a better future.
And I don't think they have ever forgotten the Opium wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the Opium Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
@@AM-fs1je My comment was expunged. I'll try again: And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century Opium Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the Opium Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
@@AM-fs1je Yes, spot on. (My comment has now been expunged three times. It could be the reference to the product of the poppy, starting with O. I'm interested to see exactly what is being censored here. I'll try again:) And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century [O] Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the [O] Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
@@AM-fs1je Yes, spot on. (My comment has now been expunged four times. It could be the reference to the product of the poppy, starting with O. Or the references to political actions. I'm interested to see exactly what is being censored here. I'll try again:) And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century [O] Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA [current actions] -- But how many Americans know about the [O] Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
I don't think that the big concern about AI was that it was too expensive. The problem is that it renders too many working people obsolete and will destroy the economy.
This was always Silicon Valley propaganda. These tech CEOs haven't innovated for a decade. Other than slashing costs to the bone, they have no means of supporting their wildly overrated valuation. Hence, the rush to create the AI bubble (ponzi scheme) of a future promised revolution abd ludicrous levels of funding. OpenAI to date has produced only glorified chatbots, with a ridiculous profit-to-loss ratio. This was always headed to an economic bubble. Hopefully, DeepSeek will head off the financial crash that was our near-term future.
@@hw-rg7gn Would you like to buy my new coin? It is the future bro, pretty soon you are going to be the new Tesla model SS with them. They are backed by 100% nothing.
The US graduates 558,000 STEM grads per year. China graduates 4.7 million STEM grads per year. And those students are not the sheltered Chinese of yesteryear. The battle cannot be won
It isn't a battle if the US sees immigration as a tool for advancement, as we have since the origins of the country. But if this is an arms race where China invests in its future and we gut education, then we've lost. Hell we'd probably lose to Finland, a country of 4 million, with how poor an effort we're making.
The US has more billionaires and wealthier billionaires. Half of those US STEM graduates are US born. Trump wants to eliminate the Dept. of Education, defund public education and turn the exploding home school industry over to his grifting lackeys.
Except the brightest of those Chinese will relocate to the US instantly if the U.S. was pro immigrant like it has been for most of its history. And not just the Chinese, but the Indians, Canadians, Europeans, etc would also be willing to do so. Unfortunately the U.S. has taken a hard turn away from immigration and is deliberately limiting itself to its significantly smaller population as opposed to the best and brightest among the 8bn people in the world.
I too would like to see some reasonable explanation of what AI will do for us. It seems to me that artificial intelligence remains a poor substitute for the real thing.
And not only do they outnumber the Americans in intellectual talent but they have began attracting the best brains from the US and Japan to work for them.Povey one of the innovators in voice activation technology is working for the Chinese government after failing to get financial support from the US and so is another scientist called David who has been conducting a research in cutting edge CCP definition cameras and the stupid thing I heard also is that ElonMusk was chased out from the white house by Trump so if the US won't handle him well,it could also loose him to China 🤣🤣🤣
Not only a superiority complex of the citizens, Paul. The corporate media perpetuates the myth of American exceptionalism to keep people artificially calm and content. They constantly promote the excellent research and innovation being conducted in US universities, but this is only partially true after China surpassed the US in the amount of annual quality research published almost 10 years ago. What they also don't mention is that many of the finest researchers and innovators in US institutions are actually foreign students from India and China! The brain drain will continue when these graduates return home to honor their short obligatory service to their governments in exchange for the governments' financing of their US education.
US tech firms chose the “bigger is better” route because it created a moat to protect themselves from disruptive startups. Also, most Western media outlets fail to acknowledge that DeepSeek uses Huawei Ascend 910C AI chips for inference - and not Nvidia H100 or H800 AI chips for inference. American chips were used for training only. This fact might be purposely omitted to protect Nvidia share prices - and save face because DeepSeek demonstrated that life goes on without Nvidia AI chips.
Although its from CCP, CPC, PRC or XYZ, ABC etc., this is still a gift to humanity. Especially for those little company/nerd group waiting for the budget friendly AI.
As an AI enthusiast, I get frustrated with how bad a lot of the commentary is around AI. But this was really good! DeepSeek should be seen as a positive development because energy use is one of the biggest risk factors with its huge growth.
AI PhD here. Thank you for bringing up tech research. Keep in mind a lot of who govt tech research funds is small businesses, who big tech is not looking out for! (This is one of few areas where your guest had a blind spot.) Many of those funded by DoD SBIRs and STTRs are the people who turned down much higher paying jobs in big tech companies to work on more meaningful applications of AI, for example. Congress is looking out for us, historically. Hope they can retain their power of the purse. Ps great topic, good guest. He was right on all the big picture stuff, even if there were a few slightly cringey moments talking about the details.
The big tech and defense companies (most of which have the same three investment owners...cough, cough, cough), have very much rigged the world of government contracts/grants/etc... so that only they can actually get them.
I'm not advocating for MAGA but apparently you have no idea what it means to be Chinese. I don't, either, but I have Chinese friends who naturalized as U.S. citizens and they could tell you a thing or two.
Sputnik moment translation: I want to government to finance my business; then when I win, I will become an Oligarch and turn against the government that help me in the first place.
Am i the only one who is like who asked for all this AI integration in our phones or google searches? I find it annoying and want nothing to do with any of it. Maybe i am just getting old.
I find myself being "given" a bunch of crappy things I never asked for. Like a car with a giant touchscreen for all of the controls (which doesn't work).
In 1912 French-American inventor Émile Bachelet demonstrated a model train with electromagnetic levitation and propulsion in Mount Vernon, New York. Bachelet's first related patent, U.S. patent 1,020,942 was granted in 1912.
🌟I'm glad you made this video it reminds me of my transformation from a nobody to good home, $37k bi weekly, Now I have a home, a beautiful queen and a lovely daughter (Jessica), Thank you Father Most High A Jesus Liberates.
I thank LAUREN RITA TRACY who has always been there to help me with detailed analysis and recommendations that I would not have had access to otherwise.
YES! That is exactly her name (LAUREN RITA TRACY). I saw her interview on CNN News and so many people highly recommended her and her trading skills❤❤❤❤
the cold fact is even in their most chaos time during great culture revolution, the STEM students were still highly respected country wide. so it is not just recenlty or 10 years, they have been building up their science base for last 60 years. and we value athletic kids way over "nerd"
Just go to any United States college or highschool and see who are the best scoring Stem students, notice a pattern?? Imagine having the best stem students in the world that are more numerous then all the students in the United States working for your economy.. how can you compete against that mind share.
...tim, you need a life jacket on the tech seas....we all wan't you to be able to swim but will be collectively relieved every time you reach shore....😂
DeepSeek’s monthly plan for its AI is *40 times* cheaper than OpenAI’s standard price. This suggests that big U.S. tech companies may be grossly inefficient or overcharging consumers far more than what newer, better alternatives in the global market can now offer. Affordable options like DeepSeek and other emerging low-cost open source AI tools are great choices for Americans looking to save money on their AI usage, especially now that budgets are tight for many people. This is legitimately game changing. I’m beginning to understand why DeepSeek is being a called a “profound gift” to the entire world.
No but that is the stuff we need to be focusing on not this AI trash. If we don't a lot of the security we use for the internet and basically everything will become very easy to crack. Think of it like this, you can add 1+1 in your head pretty quickly, you can't add 354568046804689 + 389549t459054094 in your head that quickly. Right now with our computing power we depend on very complex ciphers that are hard to figure out and/or by time you did they would be obsolete to secure things. Quantum takes that security and turns it into 1 + 1 because of the computing power it has. Another way to think of it is like this, the door to your house is pretty secure locked, it is even more secure if you reinforce it with steel and put some heavy duty locks on it. If a bad person is trying to get to you and all they had were their fists, they would be pretty useless. Even if you had someone that is FloridaMan on bath salts, a super computer you wouldn't be able to get in. Now what if you had The Hulk on bath salts? Your door would like like the straw house the big bad wolf blew down. That is quantum computing, the hulk on bath salts trying to break down your door that was designed to protect fort knox.
As a Bitcoin supporter, I'm furious over this and the entire industry getting rugged by the President and supporting this grift with crypto. This is true Trump Derangement Syndrome, it makes people wildly irrational to still support him.
@@ryancouture2508 Stop with the false equivalence. The West doesn't censor the stuff you're talking about. CharGPT is fine talking about bad things the U.S. has done.
As Alex said - they gave over the architecture. So US companies can use the superior Chinese system to give those answers. Of course, US propaganda from the right is even MORE restrictive and lying than anything China produces. So there's that ...
They did an experiment with kids. They gave one group two boards and some string and another group one board and a string. They had to go 30 feet without their feet touching the the ground. One group tied a board to each foot and walked across. The other tied their board to one foot and hopped across. The group with one board beat the two board team every time. Sometimes necessity results in better outcomes.
@CalmZeroChill Under preparing? The experiment shows that there are different ways to solve the same problem, and sometimes having fewer materials to work with results in superior results. The kids with two boards could have done the same thing as the others and been just as quick, but didn't. The Chinese had less to work with but were forced to use what they had available, and it produced a better result.
@@kevinskiles2033 what is the name of this experiment, when was it conducted, and by who?Was it only ran once in one class room? Where the results always the same? "sometimes having fewer materials to work with results in superior results. " _Sometimes_ does all the work for you in that sentence. _Sometimes_ my car says it's empty but I still have enough gas to get to the station does not mean I can rely at all on that ever being the case. It's only true sometimes. "The kids with two boards could have done the same thing " _could have_ does all your work in this one. The kids with one board _could have_ given up and never finished. "The Chinese had less to work with but were forced to use what they had available, and it produced a better result." okay. The sun rose at 7:38 EST today. What does that have to do with your anecdote? But really, just the people that ran the experiment or the name of it. I will do _all_ the legwork. I'll even come back and share my findings.
There are two costs that are sort of conflated here. One is the cost of training (ie building the model). Deepseek claims their costs were extremely low and Tim's questioning of this are certainly legitimate. The other is the cost of running it now. This is perhaps 3% of what it costs for OpenAI to run their models. This is easily verifiable, given that OpenAI is not overstating their costs drastically (and it would seem odd that the would overstate their costs). Also, at min 5:05 he says they are using new techniques like reinforcement learning "that have just begun to roll out in the US". This is not correct. Reinforcement learning is at the heart of what OpenAI started, and at least from 2017. The company likely experimented with RL techniques even earlier in their research process. He is correct that they have been creative in their use of RL.
@ First of all post your link about that 90% number. That's absolute bullshit you're just talking out of your ass Second of all, "the farthest from the truth"? We're the only industrialized nation with for-profit healthcare. Look at you, thinking the healthcare war is about who makes the most profit.
The US business model is competition fuels innovations. This business model is clearly broken as four tech companies control the entire sector and buy any startup before they can compete. It's technological stagnation. China business model is that everything is funded and allocated by the government with limited competition but a having a singular goal of innovation. When the smartest students from our universities end up working at a hedge fund or bank playing with numbers in a database and the smartest students from China are working on singular goal of technological innovation is anyone really surprised that the US is losing on almost every front?
What the US has failed to understand is that China's approach in everything whether AI or hardware manufacturing is to build for the whole world without putting regulations on who can have access to its products or technology while the US approach is to build for itself and put tough regulations on who can have access to its products and technology therefore limiting its market. China chose a longtime ago the path to be the world's manufacturer while the US is making a cholce of being self centered which isolates her from a larger part of the world.That is why the chinese tech including AI will spread fast and sell more than the American one and at even a cheaper cost.This puts the US tech giants at an Economic risk or disadvantage despite having the cutting edge semiconductor technologies like the best Nvdia chips.😏😏😏
This very comment section's most common response to the huge number of engineers in China is almost universally, "Hire all the Chinese engineers!!!" and not "Send all of our kids to college like China does!!!" We are so cooked as a country, even in a liberal podcast comment section. ABSOLUTELY COOKED. We can't even imagine a solution that isn't "throw the failures of capitalism at the failures of capitalism until we overload the failures of greed, self-sabotage, and endless capitalism and wealth and resource hoarding." 🤭
I reckon that DeepSeek's source code will help a lot of vendors in the secondary AI market, in particular the companies that are rolling out AI agents in healthcare, automotive, customer service and finance sectors. It will enable them to cut costs which will be a great benefit to the smaller startups.
Neccessity is the mother of invention. Quoting the Co-founder and CEO of Perplexity. This is how he defined Deepseeks development- the short time and less powerfull chips and less money ( 6 million NOT BILLIONS)
*looks left* *looks right* *gets handed a free LLM to design my own AI* "We? How are 'we' losing? I just see a bunch of sad billionaires who want to throw me in a concentration camp."
As someone who worked in Silicon Valley for decades (now retired) as a software engineer, I find the characterization of China as a huge concern utterly absurd. The Chinese government is not doing anything that the US government and US corps aren't doing. The Chinese are currently open sourcing their AI models while the US corps and US govt are trying to wall them off. I'll tell you which approach I want to win - the open source approach. The worst bad actors are nation-states themselves, and that includes the US. The US has a history of abusing power on the international stage. US corps have a history of abusing consumers. I can't fathom how a US citizen is more afraid of China than the US with AI. I'm far more terrified of the US oligarchs and govt turning the world into an Orwellian dystopia than I am China.
This is so bang on
I am in the same field, I wouldn’t say I’m more worried about china. I’m pretty equally worried for different reasons
This right here. And all US tech does the same to every other country that uses it as well. I tried this model today & found it was faster & more detailed & focused even in the entry level Han Perplexity Pro. However I noticed there was a notice that they’d been having issues with cyber attacks trying to create problems for them. It’s 1 of one 1/2 dozen of another.
I think that maybe comes from a tech background. I spent some time on modern Chinese history in college. The CCP having more power is not good for anyone but the CCP’s top leaders. That doesn’t mean the US government is soo good and Amazing, but even a deeply flawed democracy with too much power is better then a deeply flawed totalitarian government with too much power.
Funnily enough, Elon made the Tesla design open in order to get enough EVs on the road to make charging station numbers viable. I believe that's the case. And now, Teslas are rusting and falling apart and have crappy paintwork and people are refusing to buy them because of his astonishing hubris. Ain't life grand?!
This used to be called market competition and capitalists said it was necessary to make industry more competitive. Now they call competitors ‘enemies’…
Capitalism is on shaky ground. I hope the oligarchs are losing some sleep.
Now they call the winning party ＂national security risk＂ 😅
Very said. We are now running away from competition.
Some people do love "war", and see other people's progress as their loss. Do they lose sleep just because any of their neighbors have new cars or find better jobs?
💯👏
I heard a statistic that China has more highly educated, honor roll students than America has students, period. Education is valued in China whereas in the US, becoming a billionaire is the most highly valued goal. Think we need a reset?
But they don’t report their youth unemployment…odd.
@@davidradtke160 In a couple of months you won't be able to get any official figures out of the US on anything.
I taught in China. Those kids are crushing in math. I taught in the US. Our kids are crushing in ADHD.
The US has 4% of the population and a 4-year degree costs 50,000-100,000 dollars.
China has 25% of the population and a 4-year degree costs $3200.
There is no competition. We aren't big enough for competition to make sense and no one wants us to compete who is in charge of our government, they want us to serve while they compete. 😐
Most Chinese government officials have some kind of engineering backgrounds and typically get promoted based on performance rather than political connections. Unlike in some other countries, where lawyers, TV hosts, or business executives might be appointed as defense secretaries or ambassadors, China tends to prioritize technical and administrative expertise in its leadership.
Right now there are US STEM students and researchers whose studies and research are “paused” due to Trumps games. How that makes the US more competitive in tech is a mystery.
There's a guy in CNBC that says it best, "there's more honour students in China then there are students in the USA"
8 of the top 10 universities in the world are from China.
What difference does it make if the US loses to China when the US under Trump is looking to be China (or worse)? The whole reason the world was supposed to care about the battle between American and China was that one of those nations defended democracy, freedom, and open markets. We aren't seeing that from the US, so honestly who cares if the fascists or communists win if those are our two options?
@@goonerOZZ Yes it is inevitable that China will have the biggest economy. (Just from the size of their population and their economic growth.) And that can fund the biggest military too.
@@Goldsteinphoto
It goes further than that…
There is now “27” books out there on what the Chinese invented first that says the world copied from China the first of those books was published in the 1950s
Yet our western Governments, Educational Institutions, Mainstream Media told us the Chinese
copy, steal and can’t innovate
These days China currently leads the “world” in 57 of 64 critical technologies of the future
Where the Chinese don’t hold a clear lead? In the remaining 7 other technologies????
It’s usually the USA that holds the lead or co-lead with China
Like AI for example…
But then you have this
👇
In One Key A.I. Metric, China Pulls Ahead of the U.S.: Talent
Paul Mozur reported from Taipei, Taiwan, and Cade Metz from San Francisco.
March 22, 2024
Researchers originally from China now make up 38 percent of the top A.I. researchers working in the United States, with Americans making up 37 percent, according to the research.
NYT
We are only losing because the oligarchs don't want to pay to compete they want the American taxpayers to foot the bill then reep the rewards.
The "Oligarchs" of which you speak just pledged 500 billion into AI development so what are you talking about?
@@jakehutchison5761 To be clear, you are simply taking their word for it.
You have nothing to actually point to, you just have a "pledge".
@CalmZeroChill Haha okay be silly if you want
The oligarchs are spending their money on cornering the market rather than producing a better more efficient product. Corporate culture is the problem here, as you would expect in an environment where corporate neppbaby carpetbaggers rule the roost instead of engineers. Looking at you Elon. 😊
@@jakehutchison5761Oligrch is not footing the bill. They are telling the Japanese SoftBank CEO to invest 500 billions. 😂
Deepseek is doing you a favour. It is destroying the AI scam!
@@spidey5324 Exactly; American AI Scamgate. 😂😂😂😂😂
Why did WE not build high-speed trains, lower the cost of living, and eliminate poverty ? Let's do that first.
But then we wouldn't have as many billionaires and poor people that have to work for them to survive.
Who the hell did that?
@@jakehutchison5761China did.
@@davidrink1291 Haha over half of China doesn't have indoor plumbing and the average American brings in 3 times the Average Chinese. Seems to me like instead of eliminating poverty they just keep everybody poor.
@@davidrink1291 Well the average American brings in 3 times what the average Chinese brings in in a year. Looks to me like instead of eliminating poverty they just kept everybody in it. If everyone is poor nobody is poor I guess.
Thank you for finding influencers, writers, experts with special interests into these types of subjects! Thanks Alex Kantrowitz.
☝🏼
Well said 👏 A huge thank you for your content. ❤🎉❤
China is also winning the battle of energy, due to the conservative's regressive dependance on fossil fuels refusing to support modern advances. AI, blockchain, data centers.... we need more energy and the US is refusing to adapt.
AI uses more energy
@@sheilawade433 Please try and use some critical thinking skills.
Holy shit you don't pay any attention do you
Blockchain consumes more energy than it's worth.
Deepseek is one of the most important recent tech developments - a cheap, effective AI that is open source. Kudos for the Chinese firm.
Honestly with all the horrifically terrible things happening i'm rooting for China at this point. They prove a nice mix of free market capitalism, and socialism really can work beautifully.
😂😂😂😂😂 you should do some research my boy
@American_Gooner i think YOU should be the one to do some research lmao. for instance uyghurs, like how US labelled them the T word before they decided to ramp up the anti chyna propaganda and how uyghurs committed acts of T. but i guess people blindly trust western media on that topic
American think they are they best and the smartest especially white American men. However, the Chinese produce top engineers educated in China and India produces top of the line geneticists. Americans voted for rich people to take more from their citizens including education , head start programs and college grants, stem programs while China has the foresight to invest in its people to ensure that their nation comes out on top which it will.
I mean most of their top people were trained in the US. So bad planning on the US part to not keep them here.
Yeah 90% of the worlds new technology is developed in the USA but sure spout your BS
@@davidradtke160 Trained in the US by Chinese professors working for these universities.
The US generally sucks because it's undergirded by racism and misogyny but it's always easier to appeal to the united sensitivities of a homogeneous society vs a diverse one not tied together specifically by culture
@@davidradtke160unfortunately ,the deepseek none of their development team has a background in studying abroad
I just asked both DeepSeek and ChatGPT a simple sample question: How do woodchucks and prairie dogs differ? Very fast, good answers from both, except that DeepSeek provided more detail.
Ask both about the Tiananmen Square massacre. Ask about the Uyghur genocide.
If you ask ChatGPT religious questions, it will give you apologetics. You have to specifically go back and say no apologetics please. Just the facts.🥹
@@wadly99 I'm sorry I can't do that Dave. The fact that this is an opensource model is the bigger deal than what data it is trained on. LLMs are fun to play around with for a little bit but it is the small models that companies will create and use that will be a bigger game changer. If I ran a company called Spacely Sprockets and I put all my secret sprocket info into a ChatGPT or something and their data gets leaked someone like that no good nobody Cogswell could take my sprocket secrets and use them for his cogs. If I keep my data in house and use my own model, I don't have to worry about that.
I was watching a video about Fast Times at Ridgemont High, commonly referred to as FTARH.
ChapGpt was able to decipher FTARH but DeepSeek was not. They'll each be useful
@@wadly99 It is free, what is the issue?
What Americans fail to understand is that China has educated its people on a scale the world has never seen, deepseek has set back scilicon valley a decade and this is not some dubious plan to over take the world, but made a scientific breakthrough they're willing to share it with the world, can you imagine the difference it'll make to children that won't have the opportunity to experience this technology, because this AI app is free. A big thank you is in order to the Chinese people.
It's not a sputnik moment. It's the moment when Yankees realised they have been bent over and zuckered. 😂
lol it's the same thing man . But then whas whith space war not IA .
Sorry, but as a non-american, I have the same security concerns about american tech companies. It’s an unfortunate side effect of the global digital world
Remember when Edward Snowden revealed we were wiretapping and recording the entire country of Brazil's cellphones just because we could?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
@@MrBazBake I remember merkel phone hack
While America is fighting over stupid crap the Chinese for the past at least four decades have been working hard improving just about every aspect of life in general making amazing strides towards the future. No amount of shock and awe as well as denialism from the west can ignore the facts .
We're literally running around a vicious cycle of stupidity while the Chinese are working extremely hard so you expect us to win some kind of prize for that?????
America went to China just as the rest of the world did and asked it to become the world's factory and we were all lured in with the cheaper price of a product and the potential for increased profits. So a lot of people made a lot of money but it gave an opportunity for China to come out of the dark ages it was in the '70s to where it's leading the world today. It's that simple it's been going on since then with Giant leaps and bounds. It's amazing how we'll still believe our own propaganda instead of what's actually clearly happening. Most Americans think that the Chinese are only good for cheap takeout food and that's about it. Realize that the Chinese culture has been around for many many many centuries . It's not a young nation that's still trying to figure it out if you know what I mean.
They work in slow paces but steady as she goes straight ahead keeping their history in mind and the amount of wisdom that comes from it while crafting a better future.
And I don't think they have ever forgotten the Opium wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the Opium Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
4,000 years continuous culture, & most impactful inventions.
@@AM-fs1je
My comment was expunged. I'll try again:
And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century Opium Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the Opium Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
@@AM-fs1je
Yes, spot on. (My comment has now been expunged three times. It could be the reference to the product of the poppy, starting with O. I'm interested to see exactly what is being censored here. I'll try again:)
And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century [O] Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA trying to close itself off, get BLINDLY selfish about Ukraine, allow the top 0.5% to grab all the $$$ -- the writing is on the wall. But how many Americans know about the [O] Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
@@AM-fs1je
Yes, spot on. (My comment has now been expunged four times. It could be the reference to the product of the poppy, starting with O. Or the references to political actions. I'm interested to see exactly what is being censored here. I'll try again:)
And I don't think they have ever forgotten the 19th century [O] Wars. They tried to close themselves off to the world but were FORCED to open up. So ironic to see USA [current actions] -- But how many Americans know about the [O] Wars, or anything else beyond their own little world? " 'Not a Lot', said Spot."
I don't think that the big concern about AI was that it was too expensive. The problem is that it renders too many working people obsolete and will destroy the economy.
This was always Silicon Valley propaganda.
These tech CEOs haven't innovated for a decade. Other than slashing costs to the bone, they have no means of supporting their wildly overrated valuation.
Hence, the rush to create the AI bubble (ponzi scheme) of a future promised revolution abd ludicrous levels of funding. OpenAI to date has produced only glorified chatbots, with a ridiculous profit-to-loss ratio.
This was always headed to an economic bubble. Hopefully, DeepSeek will head off the financial crash that was our near-term future.
When it's cheap enough.
Nobody is talking about AI replacing half the clerical/admin/sales jobs in the world....maybe Covid was one solution?
@@hw-rg7gn Would you like to buy my new coin? It is the future bro, pretty soon you are going to be the new Tesla model SS with them. They are backed by 100% nothing.
It will also destroy the planet. Google’s energy use tripled because of AI.
The US graduates 558,000 STEM grads per year. China graduates 4.7 million STEM grads per year. And those students are not the sheltered Chinese of yesteryear. The battle cannot be won
Yeah they steal everything the US develops everything. Silly comment
It isn't a battle if the US sees immigration as a tool for advancement, as we have since the origins of the country. But if this is an arms race where China invests in its future and we gut education, then we've lost. Hell we'd probably lose to Finland, a country of 4 million, with how poor an effort we're making.
The US has more billionaires and wealthier billionaires. Half of those US STEM graduates are US born. Trump wants to eliminate the Dept. of Education, defund public education and turn the exploding home school industry over to his grifting lackeys.
@@jk2357 The US would probably lose to Ukraine if they weren't getting slaughtered by Putin. The Finnish education system is ranked #1 in the world.
Except the brightest of those Chinese will relocate to the US instantly if the U.S. was pro immigrant like it has been for most of its history. And not just the Chinese, but the Indians, Canadians, Europeans, etc would also be willing to do so.
Unfortunately the U.S. has taken a hard turn away from immigration and is deliberately limiting itself to its significantly smaller population as opposed to the best and brightest among the 8bn people in the world.
Is ai going to feed people? House people? or just gather more data about people and make a few excessively wealthy?
I’ve made $7k this year swing trading 2 AI stocks so for me it is both feeding and housing me 🤷♂️
Why are these pundits all pushing this AI bs?
AI will make a billion jobs obsolete
@@floridaknight3052 big money movements. Corp ownership would love to get rid of human employees.
I too would like to see some reasonable explanation of what AI will do for us. It seems to me that artificial intelligence remains a poor substitute for the real thing.
China has a billion people - for every really smart engineer we have, they have 3 really smart engineers
China hit 1 Billion citizens in early 1980’s. Has 1.4B citizens currently
And not only do they outnumber the Americans in intellectual talent but they have began attracting the best brains from the US and Japan to work for them.Povey one of the innovators in voice activation technology is working for the Chinese government after failing to get financial support from the US and so is another scientist called David who has been conducting a research in cutting edge CCP definition cameras and the stupid thing I heard also is that ElonMusk was chased out from the white house by Trump so if the US won't handle him well,it could also loose him to China 🤣🤣🤣
If that was true why is 99% of their technology just stolen? Their engeneers can reverse engeneer they really struggle going the other way
@@jakehutchison5761
Your analogy is interesting, which technology they stolen? Be specific? I'm sure you can offer ONE? 😁😁
@@jakehutchison5761typical muricans BS
If Trump puts at least $200,000 in Qardun, I am going all in
Americans have a superiority complex, which does not allow them to believe China could possibly beat them at Tech....ha ha
I guess we gotta get rid of the superiority complex along with the immigrants who actually made us superior ?
That's a given since it's a superpower which is interested in maintaining its supremacy.
Not only a superiority complex of the citizens, Paul. The corporate media perpetuates the myth of American exceptionalism to keep people artificially calm and content. They constantly promote the excellent research and innovation being conducted in US universities, but this is only partially true after China surpassed the US in the amount of annual quality research published almost 10 years ago. What they also don't mention is that many of the finest researchers and innovators in US institutions are actually foreign students from India and China! The brain drain will continue when these graduates return home to honor their short obligatory service to their governments in exchange for the governments' financing of their US education.
@@jppaul1261Yeah 90% of the worlds new technology is developed in the US. Nice try though.
As exactly what JPPaul said , there are too many folks in the US like yourself who just can’t accept the fact the US is on the decline.
Walmart, Amazon and Trump support? Qardun is going to 500x no doubt... I just hope there is not too many insiders
US tech firms chose the “bigger is better” route because it created a moat to protect themselves from disruptive startups. Also, most Western media outlets fail to acknowledge that DeepSeek uses Huawei Ascend 910C AI chips for inference - and not Nvidia H100 or H800 AI chips for inference. American chips were used for training only. This fact might be purposely omitted to protect Nvidia share prices - and save face because DeepSeek demonstrated that life goes on without Nvidia AI chips.
Although its from CCP, CPC, PRC or XYZ, ABC etc., this is still a gift to humanity. Especially for those little company/nerd group waiting for the budget friendly AI.
The big tech Bros got busted inflating their product and it looks good on them.
As an AI enthusiast, I get frustrated with how bad a lot of the commentary is around AI. But this was really good! DeepSeek should be seen as a positive development because energy use is one of the biggest risk factors with its huge growth.
Elon and Trump both jumping on Qardun..
ICO on is already at $54m, way too many insiders stacking up Qardun. I got my measly $400 in
This is an open source model so another company may leap frog them. This is what spurs innovation
So no more MOAT ..That is what China wanted happen to AI Scam 🤣 Scam Altman can't scam anymore🤣
AI PhD here. Thank you for bringing up tech research. Keep in mind a lot of who govt tech research funds is small businesses, who big tech is not looking out for! (This is one of few areas where your guest had a blind spot.) Many of those funded by DoD SBIRs and STTRs are the people who turned down much higher paying jobs in big tech companies to work on more meaningful applications of AI, for example. Congress is looking out for us, historically. Hope they can retain their power of the purse.
Ps great topic, good guest. He was right on all the big picture stuff, even if there were a few slightly cringey moments talking about the details.
The big tech and defense companies (most of which have the same three investment owners...cough, cough, cough), have very much rigged the world of government contracts/grants/etc... so that only they can actually get them.
Going to go all in on this $Qardun now after Trump endorsed it 😂
hope with deepseek we 'll find the answers to solve problems of dictatorship
Ha! Go ask DeepSeek what happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989 and see what it says.
@@VoicesEnEspanol Or ask the GOP what happened at the Capitol. Horses for courses, whever humans are involved.
Well a dictitorial country will have all of your data
What war? We'd better start learning Mandarin. Would I rather be Maga or Chinese ? I'm thinking Chinese.🤷🏻♀️
I'm not advocating for MAGA but apparently you have no idea what it means to be Chinese. I don't, either, but I have Chinese friends who naturalized as U.S. citizens and they could tell you a thing or two.
$Qardun 10x coming in the morning.. people still sleeping
This will chap some oligarch asses.
MAGA saliva will soothe the dryness.
AI needs to be less expensive. This is excellent news.
Sputnik moment translation: I want to government to finance my business; then when I win, I will become an Oligarch and turn against the government that help me in the first place.
" Spunik moment " is old school thinking, New China is not Soviet union. It shows how far US has fallen.
@@lucaskamba5869 USA is new Soviet Union.
Bought everything I could of $Qardun before it launches
Exceptionally informative and useful discussion. Many thanks!
Thanks so much Tim for this interview!!!
I’m now understanding this AI marketing!
thank you for the analysis. I have seen a lot of videos on this subject and yours are the best so far!
Am i the only one who is like who asked for all this AI integration in our phones or google searches? I find it annoying and want nothing to do with any of it. Maybe i am just getting old.
Nah. I'm like, _Well? Hell, If they already pushed the phones and the Google on us...?_
If anything you're not old or beaten down enough? I am , as evident by the "THE Google."
@@ttacking_you that's true. I miss the time before cell phones.
@@ttacking_you 😂
I find myself being "given" a bunch of crappy things I never asked for. Like a car with a giant touchscreen for all of the controls (which doesn't work).
Reason is simple people here spent most of their energy speculating stock market than doing real work!!!
Chinese are great innovators - gunpowder, noodles, yum cha, floating maglev trains and now Deep Seek AI.
In 1912 French-American inventor Émile Bachelet demonstrated a model train with electromagnetic levitation and propulsion in Mount Vernon, New York. Bachelet's first related patent, U.S. patent 1,020,942 was granted in 1912.
I only recently discovered Alex Kantrowitz. He’s my new favorite technology podcaster/UA-camr. He’s an excellent communicator.
Excellent excellent timing! Awesome show!
🌟I'm glad you made this video it reminds me of my transformation from a nobody to good home, $37k bi weekly, Now I have a home, a beautiful queen and a lovely daughter (Jessica), Thank you Father Most High A Jesus Liberates.
That's lovely 🌹if I may ask, How did you come up with so much biweekly?
It is simply the digital market. A lot of folks in the US and abroad are getting so much from it.
I thank LAUREN RITA TRACY who has always been there to help me with detailed analysis and recommendations that I would not have had access to otherwise.
$_700k and yet still counting on. LAUREN RITA is the kind of person one needs in his or her life to be honest❤❤❤️>>>>
YES! That is exactly her name (LAUREN RITA TRACY). I saw her interview on CNN News and so many people highly recommended her and her trading skills❤❤❤❤
Thank you both from Sterling Heights Michigan
The scariest sentence: "Allow people to build whatever their first desire is." With humans at this level of development...
Well, the creation of Deepseek at such a conservative price and conservative energy use really showed-up the Western World technology companies.
If its what it claims and with who we are talking about healthy skeptisism is probably a goos idea.
the cold fact is even in their most chaos time during great culture revolution, the STEM students were still highly respected country wide. so it is not just recenlty or 10 years, they have been building up their science base for last 60 years. and we value athletic kids way over "nerd"
We all win because DeepSeek's democratized Open AI. Now every country has a chance to develop it, not just a few US huge companies.
I can’t lie. I have a new respect for China because its technology is way more advanced than any other country.
Over half of the country doesn't have indoor plumbing but sure.
@@jakehutchison5761 LOL...god the ignorance. but it's a good mentality! that's why the US got beaten front, left and centre.
@@t_w_7821 Not sure stating a fact is ignorance but hey you do you.
@@jakehutchison5761Show us the fact then ? Where did you get your facts from ?
😂😂😂 this is not a fact sir
Just go to any United States college or highschool and see who are the best scoring Stem students, notice a pattern?? Imagine having the best stem students in the world that are more numerous then all the students in the United States working for your economy.. how can you compete against that mind share.
Deepseek is a good name.
Goodonya Tim, and thank you Alex your update and explanation. 👍🏻
Its fantastic. I started using it for work and it saves me so much time.
So you’re telling me I don’t need to own a nuclear power plant 🤷🏾♂️
"We are seeing the early stages of the bifuracation of the market, into a Walmart and Tiffany's." - Scott Galloway
If the U.S. oligarchs win, then we STILL lose!
Great show! bring Alex back again!
The Chinese are just like the Ukrainians! Both are performing much better than expected!!! 😂
Great interview. Alex is a rare thing: an industry pundit with a clue.
The AI Crash in markets is just beginning... Imho.
The art community DOESN'T WANT AI in the first place! It's destroyed so many careers that we've built our lifetimes achieving!
Game over America.
This was excellent and informative. Thank you!
Crypto? The currency of criminals!!!
That's what the Juice bankers would say.
The part I don’t get is why did they make it open source instead of proprietary? Was it just to hurt Nvidia? If so they succeeded.
very interesting conversation ! Thank you
And it's great to use! DS helped me with a quiche recipe and made an unprompted reference to my fave novel, so now we're bonding 😅
Cool now the Chinese has ALL of the information on your machine
If you needed ai help making quiche, I feel sorry for you.
...tim, you need a life jacket on the tech seas....we all wan't you to be able to swim but will be collectively relieved every time you reach shore....😂
Gee, are the rich people crying 😢😅
DeepSeek’s monthly plan for its AI is *40 times* cheaper than OpenAI’s standard price. This suggests that big U.S. tech companies may be grossly inefficient or overcharging consumers far more than what newer, better alternatives in the global market can now offer. Affordable options like DeepSeek and other emerging low-cost open source AI tools are great choices for Americans looking to save money on their AI usage, especially now that budgets are tight for many people.
This is legitimately game changing. I’m beginning to understand why DeepSeek is being a called a “profound gift” to the entire world.
Won’t quantum computing make all of this irrelevant?
No it doesn’t different stuff entirely.
No but that is the stuff we need to be focusing on not this AI trash. If we don't a lot of the security we use for the internet and basically everything will become very easy to crack. Think of it like this, you can add 1+1 in your head pretty quickly, you can't add 354568046804689 + 389549t459054094 in your head that quickly. Right now with our computing power we depend on very complex ciphers that are hard to figure out and/or by time you did they would be obsolete to secure things. Quantum takes that security and turns it into 1 + 1 because of the computing power it has. Another way to think of it is like this, the door to your house is pretty secure locked, it is even more secure if you reinforce it with steel and put some heavy duty locks on it. If a bad person is trying to get to you and all they had were their fists, they would be pretty useless. Even if you had someone that is FloridaMan on bath salts, a super computer you wouldn't be able to get in. Now what if you had The Hulk on bath salts? Your door would like like the straw house the big bad wolf blew down. That is quantum computing, the hulk on bath salts trying to break down your door that was designed to protect fort knox.
As a Bitcoin supporter, I'm furious over this and the entire industry getting rugged by the President and supporting this grift with crypto. This is true Trump Derangement Syndrome, it makes people wildly irrational to still support him.
Ask it about Tiananmen Square or Taiwan
Or Iraq, Iran or Gaza or Cuba or…. Vietnam, Cambodia or Korea or….
Or Xi Jinping and Winnie the Pooh.
@@ryancouture2508 Stop with the false equivalence. The West doesn't censor the stuff you're talking about. CharGPT is fine talking about bad things the U.S. has done.
As Alex said - they gave over the architecture. So US companies can use the superior Chinese system to give those answers. Of course, US propaganda from the right is even MORE restrictive and lying than anything China produces. So there's that ...
As 1/2 of American’s who won the 2020 US presidential election. Ask the president himself
Tim: Prometheus just handed humankind fire. This is beyond game changing.
Wow! That is what Fe Fi Li at Stanford wanted to achieve with her $230 mil start up.
Alex nails it!!!
Those standing with President Trump will pocket the $500 billion shares in between 😅😅😅😅
Imagine what would be possible if as fellow humans we actuall worked together. 🤦🏾♂️
Alex has such a nice and soothing voice!
DeepSeek just proved that monopolies suffocate innovation!
Extreme good analysis from your guest. 👍👍👍
They did an experiment with kids. They gave one group two boards and some string and another group one board and a string. They had to go 30 feet without their feet touching the the ground. One group tied a board to each foot and walked across. The other tied their board to one foot and hopped across. The group with one board beat the two board team every time.
Sometimes necessity results in better outcomes.
"Underpreparing children yields better results." is a weird stance to take.
@CalmZeroChill
Under preparing? The experiment shows that there are different ways to solve the same problem, and sometimes having fewer materials to work with results in superior results. The kids with two boards could have done the same thing as the others and been just as quick, but didn't. The Chinese had less to work with but were forced to use what they had available, and it produced a better result.
@@kevinskiles2033 what is the name of this experiment, when was it conducted, and by who?Was it only ran once in one class room? Where the results always the same?
"sometimes having fewer materials to work with results in superior results. " _Sometimes_ does all the work for you in that sentence. _Sometimes_ my car says it's empty but I still have enough gas to get to the station does not mean I can rely at all on that ever being the case. It's only true sometimes.
"The kids with two boards could have done the same thing "
_could have_ does all your work in this one. The kids with one board _could have_ given up and never finished.
"The Chinese had less to work with but were forced to use what they had available, and it produced a better result."
okay. The sun rose at 7:38 EST today. What does that have to do with your anecdote?
But really, just the people that ran the experiment or the name of it. I will do _all_ the legwork. I'll even come back and share my findings.
There are two costs that are sort of conflated here. One is the cost of training (ie building the model). Deepseek claims their costs were extremely low and Tim's questioning of this are certainly legitimate. The other is the cost of running it now. This is perhaps 3% of what it costs for OpenAI to run their models. This is easily verifiable, given that OpenAI is not overstating their costs drastically (and it would seem odd that the would overstate their costs).
Also, at min 5:05 he says they are using new techniques like reinforcement learning "that have just begun to roll out in the US". This is not correct. Reinforcement learning is at the heart of what OpenAI started, and at least from 2017. The company likely experimented with RL techniques even earlier in their research process. He is correct that they have been creative in their use of RL.
Well we've been losing the healthcare war for decades so what the heck
That is the furthest possible thing from the truth. 90% of the worlds technology is invented and developed in the USA.
@
First of all post your link about that 90% number. That's absolute bullshit you're just talking out of your ass
Second of all, "the farthest from the truth"?
We're the only industrialized nation with for-profit healthcare.
Look at you, thinking the healthcare war is about who makes the most profit.
The US business model is competition fuels innovations. This business model is clearly broken as four tech companies control the entire sector and buy any startup before they can compete. It's technological stagnation. China business model is that everything is funded and allocated by the government with limited competition but a having a singular goal of innovation. When the smartest students from our universities end up working at a hedge fund or bank playing with numbers in a database and the smartest students from China are working on singular goal of technological innovation is anyone really surprised that the US is losing on almost every front?
This is a good thing. Open Source software has proven to bring benefits like this for decades. This is a Linux moment.
China is a 5000 year old civilization . Watching these two ignore this fact is the very reason why this will be the century of the dragon..
What the US has failed to understand is that China's approach in everything whether AI or hardware manufacturing is to build for the whole world without putting regulations on who can have access to its products or technology while the US approach is to build for itself and put tough regulations on who can have access to its products and technology therefore limiting its market. China chose a longtime ago the path to be the world's manufacturer while the US is making a cholce of being self centered which isolates her from a larger part of the world.That is why the chinese tech including AI will spread fast and sell more than the American one and at even a cheaper cost.This puts the US tech giants at an Economic risk or disadvantage despite having the cutting edge semiconductor technologies like the best Nvdia chips.😏😏😏
This very comment section's most common response to the huge number of engineers in China is almost universally, "Hire all the Chinese engineers!!!" and not "Send all of our kids to college like China does!!!"
We are so cooked as a country, even in a liberal podcast comment section. ABSOLUTELY COOKED. We can't even imagine a solution that isn't "throw the failures of capitalism at the failures of capitalism until we overload the failures of greed, self-sabotage, and endless capitalism and wealth and resource hoarding." 🤭
Well mainly so they can steal all of your data but sure
I want the CCP to have my data.
i think that sometimes when you create in a bubble / silo without competition, you will never be the best and first to the finish line
I reckon that DeepSeek's source code will help a lot of vendors in the secondary AI market, in particular the companies that are rolling out AI agents in healthcare, automotive, customer service and finance sectors. It will enable them to cut costs which will be a great benefit to the smaller startups.
Neccessity is the mother of invention. Quoting the Co-founder and CEO of Perplexity. This is how he defined Deepseeks development- the short time and less powerfull chips and less money ( 6 million NOT BILLIONS)
*looks left*
*looks right*
*gets handed a free LLM to design my own AI*
"We? How are 'we' losing? I just see a bunch of sad billionaires who want to throw me in a concentration camp."
1986: Chernobyl killed the U.S.S.R.
2025: Dump killed the U.S.A.
100% facts but maga says this is all Biden & harris fault 😂