Lead ROPE SOLO: FALLING tests with new anchor system
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лис 2020
- ═════════════════════════════════
Before asking questions, please read my lead rope solo manual here:
My channel → About → My lead rope solo manual
If you want to discuss rope soloing please join the Facebook group "Lead Rope Solo Climbing", where you can find more decent information than on internet forums and UA-cam comments.
═════════════════════════════════
2020/11/04, Italy, Aurisina (TS), "Vespa 50" 5b (~ 5.8 or 5.9)
Some test falls.
2:44 #1
3:22 #2
4:16 #3
System:
Unmodded Grigri 2019, Petzl Volta 9.2 mm, Micro Traxion for the cache loop. Grigri upside down for better feeding. Steel carabiner for the main anchor, 8 mm maillon for the backup bolt (knot against maillon).
Tags: technical, tutorial, howto, climbing falls, falling, whippers, rope solo, rope solo lead, lead solo, self-belaying, self belay, climbing alone, Karst, Karst edge, Karst coast, Karst Plateau, Karst region, Friuli Venezia Giulia, FVG, Trieste, Gorizia, Udine, crag, single pitch, sport route, limestone, cadute, voli, arrampicata, arrampicata libera, autosicura, autoassicurazione, autosicura da primo, solitaria, Carso, Friuli, falesia, monotiro, via sportiva, calcare, Full HD, FHD, 1080p, 60 FPS, 60fps, 60p - Спорт
Getting geared up (and psyched) to learn rope solo by your method. The Manual along with videos of the system in action make it all perfectly understandable. I dabbled in rope solo "in the day" but modern gear and technique makes it so much more appealing.
Great to see your setup and how you do fall. Lots of learning with watching this video. Thanks.
YOur manual is amazing, I can't believe you put that much work into it and give it away. I have seen tests where a grigri doesn't catch so I prefer my soloist with backup knots. Happy to see you've not had any issues with your grigri setup.
Yep, no issues even though at some point I switched to the Revo because it's less of an hassle to climb with it.
Hey it's a neat trick with the mallion on the second bolt!
Great demonstration video!
I just don't know how I feel about the anchor. If the first bolt fails (very unlikely) then the distance to the catch on the backup bolt is quite large. That will put a big shock load on to the backup bolt, making it likely to fail too.
What I´d recommend is eyeballing the distance between the first two bolts from the ground and pre-clipping a clove hitch (in about the right distance) to the carabiner for my second bolt, leaving as little slack to the first bolt as possible. That way the second bolt technically becomes your anchor and the first your backup. If the top one fails, the distance to the catch on the backup bolt is minimal and does not put such a shock load onto the bolt.
Two possible variations: 1. If you can tie a one-handed clove hitch, you don't need to pre clip it and therefore you don´t have to guess the distance beforehand. 2. If you have a good stance on the second bolt, you can adjust the clove hitch, taking in the slack and essentially equalizing the two bolts, making it even more unlikely to fail.
In the end, everyone has to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with, so that is just my opinion. Stay safe and have fun!
In the manual you can find the more safe alpine butterfly variation.
Awesome videos you make! I'm a novice to lead solo climbing (but experienced in trad and multipitch), so no idea of what I say makes any sense. First of all, I think it is brave of you to do those falls without a backup knot. From the comments here I understand that you position the trax in such a way it generates friction to engage the grigri instead. This got me thinking. Would it be possible to use a thick, not to grabby, prusik knot too? That might even make a better second hand if it still feeds well.
Prusik as a fake hand is not recommended because of possible damage to the rope (burn).
Yes he should have used backup knotend.
I do have redundancy. PDF manual → "Anchor solutions" → "Anchor system 2: Improved (quicker) maillon rapide trick".
I use the duck for cache loop in the way showed by Andrea (attacched back to the harness e through the legs) - I quite feel to not use back up knots how much it seems to work properly (not headdown falls)
Hey man, I read your whole manual and it was so much help! That kind of info shouldn’t be free ;) I just have a thought I’d like to pass by you, what do you think of the idea of putting a 5mm tech cord Prussic (smaller diameter to grab easier) at the second bolt to keep the anchor biner upright and to potentially give you more redundancy with little to no extension in the case of the first bolt popping. What do you think? Thanks, I appreciate all your help so much!
It's free because after all 90% is stuff I've found on the internet and on the Facebook group. So I "only" did the job of putting it all together.
I don't like the system you're suggesting because it's too much work: when I LRS sport routes I try to do a proper redpoint so I need something very quick. Also, if the first bolt pops you're probably damaging the rope because of the friction.
If you don't care for a technically perfect redpoint, just do 1st bolt figure-eight and 2nd bolt alpine butterfly, then get down and climb; or, if you are very good at preparing everything on the ground, it can be used for a perfect redpoint too.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing Big crazy legs is suggesting that because if the first bolt pops, you don't need to worry about the rope getting damaged, you will be more focused on the fact that you are falling to the ground. The danger is that the system will fail if the first bolt fails. What about using nearby materials to connect the rope to another anchor point before climbing? It looks like there are trees nearby and this can be done before, not to interfere with your perfect redpoint. I'm curious what you think, otherwise this system is pretty interesting, and appears not to interfere too much with climbing.
What do you mean "rope getting damaged"? There are videos on the internet where the knot against a constriction holds up to insane kN values.
The alternative solution, as I wrote, it's to do an alpine butterfly immediately before the second bolt so you won't have sliding of the rope nor increased fall distance. That's better than your other solutions, because:
* A tree is not always available;
* Using nearby bolts makes for a messy system and occupies another route.
All this is covered in the manual.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing cool. I am going to try this system tomorrow.
you could take some use of a clove hitch on the quickdraws from time to time to avoid having too much slack between your grigri and the anchor. Especially i'd put one on the second bolt to keep the anchor pointed upwards and positioned as i intended it to be (it would prevent crossloading and add up some redundancy aswell). For the micro traxion, i hope it is clipped to a solid loop on your harness
Clove hitch for backfeeding: only when the route is longer, and I prefer the munter hitch or other systems.
Cross-loading: no, I use a bombproof carabiner.
Redundancy: already there, but you have to look carefully.
Micro Traxion: absolutely not.
My channel → "About" → "My lead rope solo manual"
Have a nice read!
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing " → "My lead rope solo manual" Wow! Merci, thanks a lot Andrea!
Can you make a detailed video of the setup? Thanks!
app.box.com/s/xe19rd4mymgu63vqaq1owf1doh2na92g
Hey, i really like your system of lead rope soloing ! Can you explain it a bit ? Thanks ;)
My channel → About → My lead rope solo manual
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing tanks!
At 5:00, you reflexively grabbed the rope with the left hand; this can slow just enough that the autobraking may not activate, as noticed by all the slack that went through even with the right hand on the braking side. No backup at all is asking for trouble, as every serious climber I know who used Grigris for lead soloing had at least one total failure to lock, resulting in sliding until the tied end of the rope was impacted. Not novices, but experts with decades of experience, big walls, free, etc. Without the backup, they'd have gone off the end to their deaths.
Grabbing the rope is impulsive but because I know that I shouldn't grab it, I actually never **actually** grab it, meaning I just slightly touch the rope (that can't be understood via video, of course). This is touched in my manual, section "Climbing" → "Falling" → "Grabbing the rope while falling". In fact, this would be even more dangerous with the Revo, but both the GriGri and the Revo never failed on me.
Moreover, my "backup" is the friction of the rope against my perineum area, see "My own Micro Traxion positioning - Back of the harness", which is going to work even if there is a bit of friction due to the hand slightly grabbing.
Anyway, depending on the height of the route, sometimes I use slip-knots as a backup, especially with the Revo.
LRSing is always a balance between speed plus comfort while climbing, and safety.
Wait a second. That would have been my answer assuming you meant while I was falling. But I noticed you meant specifically 5:00: there I was just sitting on the GriGri, that's even less of a problem, because I'm grabbing the brake side of the rope too, and I'm not really falling, I'm just sitting on the GriGri. To make it fail I would have to grab the brake side of the rope really loosely, which is not the case here (I was actually grabbing it harder than normal). Also it was not reflexively, it was on purpose to control my balance.
I mean, I understand your concern, but the important thing is to know how the GriGri works: if one does, than what one will do with the hands will always reflect that, and so you will apply the correct amount of force instinctively, etc.
I’d feel better about having the Microtraxion attached to the belay loop of the harness, then create separation from the Grigri with a sewn lanyard.
No reason.
Also, the Micro Traxion is not acting as a backup anyway, so you can attach it wherever you want.
bel video complimenti per la bravura.... mi piacerebbe vederti all'opera dal vivo.... possibile?
Bè io giro per le falesie del monfalconese, prima o poi magari mi becchi :D
Falesie del monfalconese??????
Tra Gorizia e Trieste. "Karst Edge".
if you fell on the 1st bolt, its wouldnt stop you, right?
Yes, it would. It's a high factor fall, but it will catch. For some reason, the GriGri immediately catches when you fall directly on the anchor. Probably because there is very short live rope and so it immediately get into tension.
What device do you use to give slack ?
Micro Traxion.
In the info you can find a link to my PDF manual.
Sul primo rinvio di solito faccio un Marchand che tiene tirato il moschettone di partenza sia esso su ancoraggio naturale che su pianta. Per tiri molto lunghi (mi capita su Multipitch) ripeto il Marchand a 20/25mt perché ho notato che il grigri prende corda solo con la gravità dello stesso peso della corda.
Sì, viene chiamato backfeeding, si crea lasco col peso della corda. Io faccio semplicemente un mezzo barcaiolo.
All'inizio invece non metto in tensione la corda per essere più veloce e in compenso uso un moschettone in acciaio o una maglia rapida per sopportare eventuali carichi a sbalzo.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing vero il moschettone in acciaio è un ottima soluzione specie se con chiusura triplo movimento. Facendo delle prove di caduta random ho notato che alcune volte si vanno a creare strane leve per cui, ecco, tensionando sei certo che lui lavora nella posizione ottimale. Vecchi chiodi uniti in un vertice o soste ibride è un bel vantaggio. Bel video comunque toglie tanti fantasmi nelle menti di molti.
Butta un occhio qua anche, se non l'hai già fatto:
Mio canale → Informazioni → My lead rope solo manual
In what regard would you say the fall length is dependent on amount of rope in cache loop? Does the grigri normally only grip when some tension in the cache loop is created? Blissclimbing posted a video with a fall test with grigri and it stopped immeadiately two falls with cache loop on the side of the leg, but he fell whole length of cache with the loop between his legs, any thoughts on this?
100% dependent at least with thin ropes like this.
With 9.8 it feeds worse but it stops before the cache loop runs out. Sometimes it stopped before the cache loop runs out with a 9.4 too, but only sometimes.
There are various factors: another important one is if you're falling quite above the last quickdraw: in that case the big fall will create friction on the GriGri, probably what Yann calls "the magic hand", and it will catch very soon; on the contrary, if you fall in a "top rope" position (below the quick-draw) the GriGri may take super long to catch (even though it will always catch at some point IMHO regardless of your cache loop system) and so the cache loop running out is what will activate the device.
The Revo is definitely more consistent, that's another thing that I like about it when compared to other devices.
Why is the grigri upside down?
Better feeding.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing thanks. Do you think a munter hitch on a biner would work instead of the micro traxion?
That's how I started, it's obviously worse, it twists the rope and it feeds bad.
No backup..... Very brave.....
It's not about being brave, it's that when you find a good setup and you really understand how it works, you understand that the Grigri can never completely fail.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing You take small falls with small fall factor. Have you tried it with bigger FFs? At least bigger than 1 ?
I unintentionally take FF > 1 falls when I fall on the first bolt, if the start of the route is hard. Which is slightly unpleasant but nothing crazy. Never fell extremely high above the last quickdraw, but that will always be max FF1 anyway, you just fall longer so it's more about the risk of hitting something, but the forces are low.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbing very well said. thank you. couldn't agree more. ropes break too, rocks fall, etc. your car drive to this place is probably more dangerous than your setup.
To be honest I generally don't enjoy the debatable car comparison that almost every climber does, especially those who do some more risky climbing like LRS or free solo, like I do. In LRS you have more chances of breaking your heels, etc. The reason why I have no backup with this system is because I understand it thoroughly, which is different than just saying "Oh well, there is more risk while driving". Just have a look at my LRS manual and you'll see how much I've studied, researched, and tested before feeling confident with using certain systems.
( not attacking you, just nit-picking about my point of view 👍 )
Lol I just tie a figure 8 to a tree then rapel down the rock and start climbing, all I use on me is a carabina and a grigri and that 1 figure 8 on the tree nothing else
Wut? Are you talking about top rope soloing? This video is about lead rope soloing.
El Mudo is coming…
Yup and it sucks because it requires a chest harness, which I hate. Revo is the best option IMHO.
@@AndreaCalligarisClimbingI got one and I don't mind the chest harness and I liked the added safety of bullet-proof steel. I can't climb near my Max level with it but I can safely do all kinds of multi-pitch climbs. So, I am wondering why you think it sucks. Is it bc of the extra hassle or that it's less simple? Just wondering if I have overlooked something. Btw, I also have a Gnome. What's your opinion on that one? And finally, have you tried using a supermunter at the first bolt with some extra slack (like around one meter) and another bolt tied back to it to allow for a softer catch? It works well with the improved maillon trick at the second bolt. You don't need a knot below the second bolt then but you could still tie one but then around a meter or a bit less below the second bolt).
Thanks a ton for your manual!!! Well, and thanks for your response if you find the time.
Not Save bevor 3. of 4. bolt... ! Like climbing with a sleepy belayor...
With the GriGri you generally fall the length of the cache loop. With the modded Revo you generally fall less than 1 meter.
I now use the Revo. Of course it's not like climbing with a partner.
Hay veces que si haces eso el grigri 2 actúa de polea , cuidado
Your rope management system looks efficient, using one bolt as your anchor though isn’t. Definitely shouldn’t be emulated.
Have a better look. The idea is that if the first bolt fails, the knot smashes into the maillon. So it's a redundant anchor but with a big extension (shock load), which is good enough as a backup.
More in my manual:
app.box.com/s/xe19rd4mymgu63vqaq1owf1doh2na92g