Nightwish: The Poet and Pendulum- Premiere (This is the big one!) : Reaction
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Premiere event. We have recorded this reaction and will be in the Live Chat window to join in when this first airs. Come join your voice for a truly epic piece of music.
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Due to technical reasons, we had to repost. No time changes... Same as. Apologies to anyone who submitted comments and likes, but due to a re-upload we have lost comments! See you on Saturday!! Thanks Alex ad George
Shit happens sometimes, don't worry there will be enough of "us". 😃
A song that dives not only lyrically but also in the composition deeply into the functioning of a full-blown depression. In this case, in Tuoma's mind. Just as depression causes extreme mood swings, the chapters of this song are also very different in mood. Just as abrupt changes of music. Here you go through all stages of depression up to suicide.
From grief, to love, to anger to peace of mind in the thought of putting an end to his life and then doing it.
Tuomas himself said that so that he didn't have to take life in real life, he did it on stage in a song. An absolute masterpiece.
So well coordinated that it takes exactly 3 minutes for the pendulum to fall and kill Tuomas, as announced by the boy's voice ("3 minutes counting").
On the Pacific question. I don't know if the part really allens to the following event, but I think so.
The band had a few days off between concerts and everyone was on the beach together. All except Tarja. She once again did her own thing with her husband. I think that was the moment that broke the camel's back and that was the moment when the band finally decided to end that.
This song has not been played for a long time and will never be played again. Unfortunately. Tuomas is over it and overjoyed with Floor. But he also said that if Floor decides to leave the band one day, then Nightwish is no more. That would also be the end from his side.
Doesn't matter. Watched it again.
You guys sound like you may be among the few who are interested enough to maybe enjoy reading my personal analysis of these Poet & the Pendulum lyrics. A lot of other viewers get sick of seeing me copy and paste this, but it's only for you not for them. So have a look thru if you so fancy. --->
Poe's "The Pit & the Pendulum" is the overall metaphor. But the song isn't a musical rendition of Poe's story. Rather, it uses Poe's story as a metaphor (or maybe allegory... not sure what the more correct word is there) for telling a much different story... about Tuomas himself and the history of Nightwish. I sometimes cut & paste this analysis of the lyrics that I pieced together and re-edited many, many times over the years, but I save it only for reactors who appear to appreciate the song deeply enough that they might enjoy reading my thoughts. So it's for you, not for others who have seen it before ad nauseum! LOL! It overflows UA-cam's character limit so look for about three or four continuation panes below:
START. PART 1: THE “CLIFF NOTES” VERSION OF POET & THE PENDULUM
My Analysis of the Lyrics
[Legal Disclaimer: This is, in no way, purporting to be a biography of the band; has, in no way, ever been stated explicitly in public by the band; has, in no way, been verified or authorized by the band. It is merely my personal, rational analysis based on stitching together publicly available information to try to better understand the mind and heart of the composer when he wrote this---a very fascinating quest in this case!]
As an overview, I assume all immediately recognize the allusion to Edgar Allan Poe's "The Pit & The Pendulum" wherein the victim is strapped unto a stone altar and must lay watching the ever-so-slowly descending pendulum blade, forcing him to contemplate for hours the agonizing death to come when the blade eventually starts cutting him in half.
With Poe in mind as the overall metaphor, notice that the song begins with the whispered, "The end" and ends with the whispered, "The beginning." Tuomas told us in lyrics of a previous song written years before this that he felt like he "needed to die in order to feel alive." The metaphorical suicide in this song carried out that plan. The suicide (both literal and career suicide) is introduced at the beginning as "the end." After that is over, the rebirth of his spirit, his romance, his creativity, and his career is given us at the end as "the beginning." A pretty clever poetic device in my humble opinion!
"Movement I: White Lands of Empathica"
This part is like an "Executive Summary" or the "Frontmatter" of the book he is about to present us. The ghostly, ethereal intro is provided by, I'm told, a choir boy soprano contracted from a children’s choir company in London. It gives us a succinct summary of the whole song: "The songwriter's dead. The blade fell upon him; Taking him to the white lands; Of Empathica; Of Innocence."
The White Lands of Empathica is a mythical land in the Dark Tower fantasy series, and I conclude he is using it as somewhat analogous to an afterlife destination in "End World."
"Movement II: Home"
This part lays out his living hell in the normal "home" world before his abrupt transition to End World when the descending pendulum blade strikes him.
"The dreamer and the wine; Poet without a rhyme. A widowed writer torn apart by chains of hell."
Tuomas is clearly both the poet and the dreamer. He is a fan of wine. Whenever you see Empuu slugging a Corona on stage, Tuomas is sipping from a bottle of wine behind his keyboards. He is without a rhyme because poetry comes from the heart, and his heart is currently dead. He views himself as being "widowed" in that his angel has had her "angel wings burnt to dust" by dismissal from the band. The chains of hell tearing him apart were the opposing requirements of his heart and head: the desire to keep her in the band and continue wallowing in his pain versus the harsh business decision required to end the problem and give both careers a new start, both Tarja's and Nightwish's.
"One last perfect verse; Is still the same old song. Oh Christ how I hate what I have become!"
Tuomas is telling us here that the one chain of hell tugging his heart to maintain the status quo has driven him to keep trying to write "that one perfect verse" that will get through to her and "fix" the situation, making the problem go away; even though the other chain of hell tugging his head tells him this is hopeless and futile. He has told us this same thing in lyrics from previous songs written years ago also such as in "Nemo" ("This line the last endeavor to find the missing life line!") and "Dead Boy's Poem" ("Walk within my poetry. This dying music: my loveletter to nobody.") The continued futile attempts seem, to him, as "still the same old song" in that he keeps trying to say the same thing expecting a different result. He hates that circumstances have driven him to become this person.
"Take me home. Get away, run away, fly away! Lead me astray to dreamer's hideaway! I cannot cry 'cause the shoulder cries more; I cannot die, I, a whore for the cold world!"
Tuomas often refers to himself as the dreamer, the introvert, the escapist. This chorus is revealing his inner escapist telling him to run from the problem that he might hideaway from it rather than face it. He has no shoulder left to cry on. He is finding no more joy in pursuing his passion of writing and performing music for "the cold world" who cares nothing for his sorrows and pain. They only want him for his music. This makes him tantamount to a whore, selling his mind and body to that cold world without joy in return.
"Forgive me: I have but two faces. One for the world; One for God; Save me!"
He asks for forgiveness for this. His whore face he presents to the cold world. He tells us about this face again on the next album in "Song of Myself" ("All that great heart lying still; In silent suffering; Smiling like a clown until the show has come to an end. What's left for encore; Is the same old Dead Boy's song; Sung in silence") When the "show has come to an end" he has his other face only for God. Note that he is not religious in real life, and that is well known, but the metaphor which the rest of the world understands is appropriate and meaningful nonetheless.
"My home was there and then; Those meadows of heaven. Adventure-filled days; One with every smiling face."
He is imagining here his anticipation of the death to come at the hand of the pendulum blade. One second he is home in the normal world. The next second he is in the meadows of heaven; apparently Empathica.
"Please, no more words; Thoughts from a severed head. No more praise! Tell me once my heart goes right!"
He wants no more words of advice or encouragement from others. His thoughts are as those from a severed head: useless to effect response of the body. His head has been severed from his heart by the "chains of hell" in verse one... or has it been severed by Poe's blade? Or is it both? Or are they both really the same thing? Tuomas is a master of double meaning, and he uses that poetic device often throughout much of Nightwish's lyrics.
He wants no more praise for his musical talent from the cold world. He just wants, for once, to be reassured that his heart has made the right decision.
Continued in PART 2--->
PART 2 ----->CONTINUED FROM PART 1 ABOVE:
"Movement III: The Pacific"
This part is the pensive, dreamlike longing for the life of innocence the way it used to be; or perhaps it is the dreamlike transition during the moments of his death as he transitions from Home World to Empathica’s End World. Both would be valid interpretations. Or, again, perhaps they are both the same thing. [As a side note it is also a verse which caused some obvious tension between him and the replacement singer Annette. It is supposed to be sung in the ultra-high octave falsetto similar to the intro to evoke the dreamlike quality. Annette did a beautiful job on this on the studio album "Dark Passion Play" (so he knew she was capable of that range), but seemed to refuse to sing it correctly when live. In some live vid captures you can see him snap his head up from the keyboards and give her the evil stink eye that just seems to scream out, "We talked about this back stage, and you promised to do it right!" But who knows. We can only speculate on that. Floor, of course, sings it to perfection!]
"Sparkle my scenery; With turquoise waterfalls; With beauty underneath; The Ever Free. Tuck me in beneath the blue; Beneath the pain, beneath the rain. Goodnight kiss for a child in time; Swaying blade my lullaby."
An overriding theme of the band is that of being "Oceansouls." The imagery of peaceful blue water, sirens calling seamen to their watery deaths, the blue mist atmosphere during the orchestral intermezzo of Ghost Love Score, etc., pervades nearly everything. He sees peace and beauty beneath the water...in this case waterfalls...as a place for his inner escapist to hide from the pain. The kiss of death from the approaching blade has become this child's lullaby. Tuomas often makes reference to the innocent heart of the little boy inside throughout many of Nightwish's songs.
"On the shore we sat and hoped; Under the same pale moon; Whose guiding light chose you; Chose you all."
This verse drops back out of the dreamlike ultra-high octave falsetto to give us more real world thoughts. If one acquires some familiarity with the formation of the band, this simple sentence is pretty unmistakably a reference to that time. The concept for Nightwish was allegedly posed to his founding bandmates (including that first, dismissed singer) over a night time campfire in the Finnish wilderness during a group camping trip. It was probably on a lakeshore, since Finland is a land of 10,000 lakes, and water imagery plays such a large role in many lyrics. There have also been important references to swimming "in places no one has seen before" under the midnight full moon, such as in the touching poem at the end of "Song of Myself."
He is telling, probably not us but the other band members ...including the absent singer should she ever hear this verse..., that they sat on that lakeshore and hoped for success as Nightwish, all together under the same pale moon. The guiding light of the moon chose them ALL (a pointed jab at the dismissed singer, I believe) to be in this experimental project together.
The spoken word verse, "I'm afraid. I'm so afraid; Of being raped again, and again, and again! I know I will die alone. But loved," alarms some listeners with its darkness, particularly because it seems to be spoken in a female voice, although I’m told it is spoken by the choir boy again...don't know for sure. But either way, this represents Tuomas's last thoughts as he lays with only three minutes remaining before the pendulum blade first begins to strike his torso, "raping" him again and again and again as it swings. He knows he is going to die alone in this pit of sadness beneath the pendulum, but he also knows his family loves him.
"You live long enough to hear the sound of guns, long enough to find yourself screaming every night, long enough to see your friends betray you."
Not sure about the "guns" reference. It likely refers to the cruel shots fired by the news tabloids---a very big thing in Finland when it comes to covering metal bands. He found himself screaming (crying?) every night, both from the pain he lived before the "death" and the pain from the cruel things being written in the press. The reference to seeing your friends betray you is pretty certainly another jab at the singer, as he plainly describes in the infamous Open Letter the dismissal in terms of her being a very old and dear friend who chose to betray him. Keeping the art of double meanings in mind, it also likely refers to seeing many of his friends betray him afterward by siding with the cruel press.
"For years I've been strapped unto this altar. Now I only have 3 minutes and counting. I just wish the tide would catch me first and give me a death I always longed for."
He is telling us that, unlike Poe's character who was strapped to the stone altar for hours, he saw this pendulum blade approaching for years. If we map the whole history of Nightwish lyrics on to the timing of events in real life (to the extent that they are publicly known) we can see this shift that suggests when he knew everything had started to go south. We see the transition from romantically hopeful youth to morose impending doom and sadness as we study lyrics from “Angels Fall First” up to “Once,” and then the anger catharsis of “Dark Passion Play” followed by the final installment of the saga: the denouement and reflection of “Imaginaerum.”
To what might the "3 minute" statement be referring? I believe the first strike of the pendulum blade was the moment when he handed over the envelope containing the Open Letter to Tarja or her manager or whoever was the physical courier. It was at that point that it became too late to recall the act. Torpedo in the water! I surmise, based on this, it was about 3 minutes from the ending of the last song at the "End of An Era" concert (during which he made her sing about the impending "burning of her angel wings to dust") to the time he handed off the letter. And this was the final agonizing 3 minutes where he knew the decision was final. The opening verse of that last song even includes the ominous warning, "This night will hurt you like never before!" which she had to sing about herself.
CONTINUED IN PART 3---->
Floor really brought out all of the passion, fear, love and raw feelings in the Poet and the Pendulum, I think the whole Wembley gig is one of the classics.
So glad it was recorded!
In the last part she almost breaks. You can see tears in her eyes. It must be hard for all of them. You can see them joining Tuomas at the end.
The ending is so telling about how powerful it is for all of them. Emppu and Marko - say no more. And watch Kai and Floor once the song ends. The focus of all is in one direction! The band is so tight!
Cool - will do
"The beach on the shoreline" is when they put the band together 1996. They sat together around the campfire in moonlight, when Tuomas tells about his idea of the band.
Ahhh. Makes sense.
Tuomas often refers to himself as an Ocean Soul, he feels very tied to the ocean. The end mother and father, were actual words to him from his mother when she realized how depressed he was and felt the weight of the world on him. You guys got the gravity of it though and I think it was wonderful. They do not play this anymore, and may never again. When he plays this song, he goes back to those feelings. I am so glad Tuomas carried on, the man is a genius. When Emppu and Marko joins him (the only remaining others from that time) at the end, it is very moving to me. They all signed off on Tarja's letter, but Tuomas took it way harder than the others, and the world was coming down on him for it.
Great info! Thanks for being here and supporting us on this journey!
Tuomas has said recently that he's been able to move past those feelings, even when playing this song. It's now just a part of his past. However the song overall is still a part of that past that he doesn't want to keep dredging up. Further, with the departure of Marco, whose vocals are an important element to the 4th part, I don't know if they'll ever play it again live.
And everybody blame Tuomas even though they all wanted it. What happened then would be cancel culture today. I'm happy Tuomas get over it and is happy now ❤️
And at the end, just before Floor says Thank You, she is looking over at Tuomas, as is Kai. They are tight!
@@helky8 they have been over it for ages or else there would be no Nightwish.
It was a crisis and it wasn't handled right. Whatever the bands' feelings towards Tarja; it was a dick move. And I think that record-company might have whispered words in Tuomas' ear when they realised tarja was going to do her own thing and eventually leave. She might draw fans away and they scapegoated her. To blast her like that. So publicly. It was so heartless. I had little pity for Tuomas bleeding heart, after that stunt. Keep it professional and indoors. Don't fuck up eachothers hustle. Look at Floor today; she is a member of Nightwish and has her own career. Something they didn't want for Tarja.
Oh well. That was then. They have all moved on.
While I have watched this video/song many times...2 thoughts always surface...
1.) Kai absolutely ownes those drums, his ability is second to none...
2.) Much admiration to the crew for the sound and lighting...simply amazing!
👊
Well said.
while Kai is an absolute beast on the drums, i feel Jukka is slightly better (maybe not in technical ability but he really "feels" the music. both of them have impeccable timing!
@@mushymarlin- Completely agree...Jukka has "Swag" while Kai is a more a "Function Over Fashion" ...both rock out!
Appreciate the reply 👊
Not many songs or performances on this level.
I'm pretty sure I've seen a Tuomas interview saying the song has now been retired from live performances.
They kind of stopped before playing it live in 2009 but brought it back on this 2015-16 Endless Forms Most Beautiful tour, and glad they did, so we could hear Floor sing it.
If you’ve seen Annette perform it, you can understand why they retired it in 2009…. But so glad they immortalized it at Wembley with Floor. She doesn’t just sing the song, she fills it with emotion!
@@northof4912 I imagine it was written before Annette joining, pretty sure they started recording the Dark Passion Play album in 2006, with Marko doing temporary vocals.
I can imagine it went like "Hey Floor, what do you make of this song?" - "Let me show you" - "Ok, we are totally going to bring it back!"
@@RenThraysk They did start recording in 2006, the Reach version of Amaranth is so passionate.
@@RenThraysk It was written before Annette joined and I have my theory, with absolutely nothing to back it up, that Tuomas may have written it with the hopes a certain Dutch singer may one day be available to sing it……. because it sure was not written for Annette’s skill set….
great,!!! sorry i missed this. Thanks from Colombia
Next time. Be well.
Until this day Tuomas and Tarja has not met or spoke to each other yet they have been in contact via email only. Tarja and Marko sang for the first time together after this at the 2019 Heavy Christmas concert there are some beautiful videos when they sing Ave Maria together.
I also don't think they should...... considering!
Finally glad you enjoyed it
It was heavy !!
First time watching the whole Wacken from beginning to end is an experience, enjoy it!
Looking forward to it so much. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Flying home over the Pacific Ocean from South America.... Tuomas looked at the water out of the plane and began to feel better - enough to write the song.... Marko sang the original demo in its entirity - darker and coarser - with 4 letter words and graphic imagery.
It was really his earthly parents because he actually went there after. They email each other but no face to face talking. Iike how Floor looks at Tuomas in the Mother FATHER part. I loved how Marco and Emppu checking in out Tuomas. The beginning could also be the end with Tuomas Marco and Emppu were there at the break up. I know that Marco has sung Ave Maria with Tarja at the Christmas concert in Finland
lake and bonfire is a thing because that is how Nightwish started out. all that water talk, oceans and stuff.
Ah!! Too much history!
Wondeful! I really enjoy your guys' reactions!
Great reaction as ever. I appreciate you both very much.
Our pleasure! Be well and have an amazing weekend
@@TheThamesmen Greetings from Vienna (Sausage...). You should also go to Buenos Aires 2018....
@@BigzampanoXXL might fine sausage!
Ahhh the Pit Demon from Nightwish. Good on ya!
Be well.
This song brings always tears to my eyes. Loved Your reaction! You did homework well, which is key in this song. You have great analysis on song as well. I have read from somewhere that last part of this song is pretty much from word-to-word discussion between Tuomas and his (actual) parents. Pretty much discussion that saved him!
Well that makes sense of the final part. Thank you for sharing
That last section....every time.
I know. X
Song/Performance = Definitely a masterpiece...and they did this LIVE! You guys appear to realize how special this is. Well Done.
Thank you for watching and being part of our reaction
Id heard when Floor joined the band she had only 3 days to learn the full set for the forthcoming world tour in 2012 into 2013
Great review guys was there on the night at Wembley 5 years ago and still gives me chills. Shame they will never play this again but just a great band. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the great reactions. I really enjoy these.
Listening to the hole song and feeling the song in one take.
I would love to start a crowdfunding to build a time machine and go back to Wacken, Wembley and Buenos Aires.
For now looking forward to November 22 Amsterdam Ziggo dome.
I agree those would’ve been amazing shows to go back to
So much to say... I will say this.. Floor and Marko really bring the emotions in this song! The 2 together live has brought tears to my eyes many times portraying Tuomas' heartfelt lyrics, so much for being a "tough guy" right... Musically the entire band was great shaping the background to the pain, suffering, love and redemption leading to all of them starting a new chapter in their lives!
That is the wonder of music. It is like magic and can transform so many things. Thanks for being here much appreciated
@@TheThamesmen Music is Magic!
💛🤘💛
Thank you
I think the part in the pacific is so specific because, as far as I know, they were at the beach one night when they decided to form nightwish.
Ahhhh..... thanks. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Great reaction guys, I enjoy the genuine reactions you show. The hype that is created around this song beforehand , demanding you do this and read that, could spoils any spontaneous enjoyment for the reactor imo. I think the first time I heard it, it had the biggest impact on me, while not knowing anything about the backstory. I hope Nightwish fans don’t become as insufferable as some of the Tool fans have :) Keep it up!
It is obviously sacred ground so does deserve respect and we are okay with that. As long as everyone is polite!
Nice first read of the song guys. Second robber being Tuomas himself…Never thought of that. So much depht in these songs.
Still got to have balls to tease Jesus. His Dad is pretty big
great reaction guys. i remember that episode,that we only miss tarja and hope she come back to band. there was not any bad feelings about nightwish band members. Anette olzen key moment was when nightwish go to performance brazil, audience have blankets there where writing WE want tarja back. anette hear and see those things and get angry and stop singing half set list. she go back back room and later shout ( very angry ) band members why they playing concert to end. ( they say anette what happen if they stop playing in brazil, RIOT happen, band not get out without fighting). well thanx thamesman and have great sunday there and soon new week.
Wow great story thank you for sharing how crazy!
@@TheThamesmen your welcome :)
They don't do this live anymore, to hard on Tuomas.
Thamesman Tuomas can tell great story,s , for me Tuomas is the Mozart from this time , i say only good music is good music. thanks i love it .
Be well. Thanks
Always thought this song should be in a rock opera. Would love to see Toumas compose a rock opera he has the tools to do it, great reaction. In my opinion it is a masterpiece ! Never seen any one that has reacted to this song really delve into the meaning of this song the way you both have. BRAVO that's why I like watching the Thamesmen. The Thamesmen 2, eh! Just kidding, I enjoy both. New Patron by the way
Ohhhh that's great!!
If I'm recalling the history of the founding moment correctly the three of them, Tuomas, Empu and Tarja founded the band at a camp fire at the shore of a beach. So I think this is part of that because this started their journey together at this time. So I always thought about that moment when this part comes up. I guess Tuomas loved Tarja like he loves Empu and the other members. The band is also his family, his life, his meaning. Being betrayed because of wanting more money and fame (which never really came back after this moment) is really a deep pain for everyone in the band as I guess the others also see the other band members as their family. Tuomas took the most blaming even though it was a full band decision. I can't imagine how bad this time was for him almost losing his family and his life just because of money and fame was more important than the journey with them.
OK.... Understood. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Alex - I think your British broke down and there was a tear hiding behind those big frames right at “turquoise waterfall”…….. 😉
You are spot on. I did.
@@northof4924 She’s a goddess and she can get any man! I’m not British, but us Canadians think we are tough, but it still gets me every time I watch!
So you gotta love….. a music video reaction by some ex-pat Brits living in California, US of A……. Reacting to a band fronted by a Dutch singer, married to a Swede and living in Sweden, performing with a Finnish band, singing a song about pseudo suicide, performed at Wembley Awwena! Can it get any better?
HA HA So true
There is no evidence that they had more than friendship.
Cool.
I've seen a few reactions to this masterpiece by now, but no one else before you learned gentlemen has ever got me thinking about the meaning of the lyric "Second robber to the right of Christ, Cut in half, infanticide." I used to think, why infanticide, the robber wasn't an infant and he didn't murder an infant? But this must be referring to the fact that Tuomas and Tarja were childhood friends, so it felt to Tuomas like he was being torn in two between wanting to defend Tarja's position in the band and realising that she should go. There's always more to mined from Nightwish music and lyrics with repeated listens.
I also listened to a little of the audiobook of The Pit and the Pendulum, but it sounds a bit too scary! I can however recommend the poem Song of Myself to be added to your reading list though, as I believe it may have inspired the Nightwish song of the same name. It's a real ground-breaking piece of American 19th century mega-poetry.
Graham.... way too deep for me, I haven't even had my coffee. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Tuomas' the most impressive song ever 🤘💕
So far ……
Everytime I see your opening I expect a Benny Hill episode. I miss Benny Hill.
Ha ha :) Imagine on day if we bring Benny in!
How does one even talk after such emotional rollercoster. I cried like a little bitch after first hearing this one. 😔😔
We are English!
@@TheThamesmen Greetings from Manchester.... 😉
@@gnomche aah!
And this song totally encapsulates why this band is so loved by the Nightwish Army. ❤️🇬🇧. Ive never come across another band that makes me feel ‘wanted’ in the way that Nightwish do, they share their emotions with the fans in a way that makes you part of their family. Dammit, I frikken love this band and their music so much 🤘
Ha ha .... Good got you Jeff!! I like that. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
I remember recommending Nightwish a couple of times in the early days of this channel, many subscribers ago. You were still doing this 'wheel of fortune' thing and the wheel never seemed to stop at a good spot for a Nightwish reaction... 😂 Look at you now, passionate Nightwish fans like the rest of us. Great reaction, I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Thank you so much. We were all so young there. I miss the wheel of fortune.
Just called George. The wheel is coming back due to you!!
@@TheThamesmen Hahaha, looking forward to that! 🎡
Are they even so far that...? I believe they might...
We're all gonna cry. That is just a fact. 😭👩🏻🎤❤️
No....... no don't. I'm British for gods sake. We cannot deal with emotion.
@@TheThamesmen Then just join... it's allmost inevitable.
Everytime my boyfriend walks into the room and I'm listening to Poet and the pendulum, he asks me if I have a box or 2 of kleenex's since he knows the tears and snot will be running down my face 😆
Floor has some kinda range from opera to heavy metal. Im impressed had never listened to them . thank you for the intro to them.
Mike..... Its great. Once your ear has tuned its amazing
@@weshwn1083 , it’s his first time hearing them, why shouldn’t he sat to the reactors, he isn’t talking to everyone!
This song is one of the big three ("Ghost Love Score" given us by Tarja, "The Poet And The Pendulum" given us by Anette and "The Greatest Show On Earth" given us by Floor), and for Nightwish fans , this song is the most meaningful... I have seen plenty reactors fail to do this song justice, but you guys (first time reaction wise) did Great . This songs backstory is deep and dark , especially for Tuomas (suicide by song).
And yet, Floor took this song to a new astral level (originally sung by Anette).
The reason for Tuomas’ depression was not the firing of Tarja itself, it was what came after that. The fans idolized Tarja and they could not accept the fact that she got fired. In their heads Tarja was the one that made the band famous and they became really angry and hostile, especially towards Tuomas. They really took it out on him. They called him all kinds of ugly things and a lot of them expressed that they did not care if he would die.
Even the prime minister of Finland got in on the act. It was headline news. He didn't know if he could continue.
The song "The Poet and the Pendulum" is a 13 Minute journey through the mind and turmoil of Tuomas Holopainen after the year 2005. It was in that year the band parted with their long-time singer Tarja Turunen and had a personal falling out with her. The pain of the separation was big on both sides, and shown in this song. There is guilt for what happened, there is the responsibility that the band and Holopainen had to show towards the fans,. It was the End of an Era for them, and reason for Holopainen being lost as described in these lyrics. We can only of course to a certain degree suppose how much of these are truly Holopainen's feelings, wishes and pains - but we do know that the lyrics of Nightwish have been up to then very personal. Other songs on the album also digest this separation and falling out of the members with Turunen.
However personal and "real" these thoughts are, I feel like this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does.
NOW: The Heavyest song of Nightwish .....Master Passion Greed ua-cam.com/video/wS7NrPNjACI/v-deo.html (Tuomas wrote this song with Marko (if i am not mistaken) towards Tarja's husband / manager , after Tarja left . Because the angry nature of that song , it will never see live concert .
Tuomas said that he is not that person anymore and that's why this song remains only in album version...) !!! This song is one of the Tarja departure Trilogy. The other two are"The poet and the pendulum" and "Bye bye beautiful".These three are very different from each other, yet awesome in their own way.
"The poet and the pendulum" is an epic symphony
"Master passion greed" is thrash metal
"Bye bye beautiful" is kind of like a pop-rock song
Just little something-something ....
Thank You Thamesmen !!!!
NWSU 🤘😎🤘.
Thanks Tim for this - Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
A song that dives not only lyrically but also in the composition deeply into the functioning of a full-blown depression. In this case, in Tuoma's mind. Just as depression causes extreme mood swings, the chapters of this song are also very different in mood. Just as abrupt changes of music. Here you go through all stages of depression up to suicide.
From grief, to love, to anger to peace of mind in the thought of putting an end to his life and then doing it.
Tuomas himself said that so that he didn't have to take life in real life, he did it on stage in a song. An absolute masterpiece.
So well coordinated that it takes exactly 3 minutes for the pendulum to fall and kill Tuomas, as announced by the boy's voice ("3 minutes counting").
On the Pacific question. I don't know if the part really allens to the following event, but I think so.
The band had a few days off between concerts and everyone was on the beach together. All except Tarja. She once again did her own thing with her husband. I think that was the moment that broke the camel's back and that was the moment when the band finally decided to end that.
This song has not been played for a long time and will never be played again. Unfortunately. Tuomas is over it and overjoyed with Floor. But he also said that if Floor decides to leave the band one day, then Nightwish is no more. That would also be the end from his side.
Thnaks for comment on Pacific. It did feel very specific event or place driven moment
@@TheThamesmen
When you do the Wacken concert you have to pay attention to the version. Here on youtube there are several recordings, but the speed is not right. Either too slow or too fast.
ua-cam.com/video/6KH4vtpdN8c/v-deo.html
With subtitles and the right tempo
@@TomTomson81 a sub has shared some content with us and we are told right versions. Just need to work out how to handle such a big project!
@@TheThamesmen There should be no copyright problems. Label and band are very youtube friendly. Even at the complete concert
@@TheThamesmen the "Mother & Father " part is referring to his actual parents,who where pivotal in helping to pull him out of his depression and restore his confidence & that he had so much more to give
What I have come to know about Thomas is he doesn’t discuss his songs in detail about their meaning. He lets his audience make their own interpretations. He speaks sometimes in broad terms, but never about the lyrics. 2 suicide survivors with YT reaction channels have described this song as the stages of depression that can lead to death. And that description fits for me.
Great lyrics when you can have many interpretations and allow you to from your own views
@@TheThamesmen If it wasn’t abundantly clear why we have dubbed Thomas the Metal Mozart, it should be crystal clear now. His lyrics are as deep as that Pacific Ocean you will be obsessed by now. Great reaction. Gents. Thanks for the shoutout again.
@@TheIpadfanatic thanks for your help. We appreciate it
@@TheThamesmen “In for a penny, in for a pound” as my Mother always says. You had me at Hello.
Tuomas...
For me this is Floor's most impressive performance. You surely need 3 different singers to perform this song and she does it all. So versatile and it's perfect too. Also try not to cry at 12:09.
I agree ! Be well
Breathtaking songsnd perfomance. Everytime I wanna cry my bad feelings out, I watch this. There is also that hope in this. Thank you 🙏🏻❤️🔥🇫🇮
Truly amazing. thanks for being here
Yes I remember the first time watching and listening to these amazing performances. There's nothing like that first-time experience that will never happen again. The next best thing is to watch guys (and gals) like you experience those same feelings for that important first time. It's hard to explain, but it gives me a sense of pride watching you enjoy those same feelings I experienced. Nice job Thamesmen on such an important piece of Nightwish history.
Thanks Ward. I'm so happy you came along! Be well
Indeed, there is something like a pride among the feelings when watching reactors enjoying similar feelings i had watching those works for first (and many more) time...
Well, what a great job you two have done here! George, the Pacific comment, my guess is that if you have ever (as a resident of the "left" coast) been to Big Sur and sat upon some rocky outcropping and looked upon the ocean, then you have an understanding of the lyric, I've listened to this performance many times and am still getting meaning from it. It just proves Tuomas's genius in composition,. Basically, IMO, it's suicide in a "virtual" world. Thanks for a great post & stream. Peace and long life to you both.
Thank you for joining us. Yes I know Big Sur and I have done my best thinking sitting on rocks watching the ocean so I do get that.
There are 2 docu's Please learn the setlist in 48 hours and making the album endless forms most beautifull ,you can sre behind the scenes
You guys still have so many Nightwish Bangers to get to!!! Song of Myself and Yours is an Empty Hope are the glaring omissions! 😉
This is not the end of our journey. Just a point we wanted to experience as heard so much about it!
@@TheThamesmen For sure! You guys are deep enough down the Nightwish rabbit hole to tackle the Poet and the Pendulum. I’ve seen a reactor who did this song as his first and it was cringy to watch from someone who knew nothing about the band, their history and their dynamics - the performance is too deep for that and deserves more respect. And at least a minimum of background is helpful - especially to understand why certain interactions occur between band members and the deeper meaning behind those interactions (ie. it may appear that Emppu is being his usual goofy self, but……). Anyways, Enjoy!
@Mika Lampinen Vantaa they've done Shudder already
@Mika Lampinen Vantaa i think this song has helped many people overcoming difficult times in their lives, it's a masterpiece. Glad you are ok now. Have you checked out their Shudder video...if not do so it's great.
@Mika Lampinen Vantaa I was a big fan during Tarjas period, she is a wonderful singer. I kind of listen less on Anettes time and yes came back with Floor.
I’m a bit confused:
The beginning: “We are not that smart”
The end: saying a lot of smart things😲
But loved your reactions as always🤘
Thank you for the kind words. We just try to express what we think and what we here. We know we’re not always right!
and then. getting to know floor better, watch 'you have 48 hrs to learn the setlist, .Dave south africa
Thanks Dave South africa. Thanks for being here and supporting us on this journey!
I believe this performed of the "The Poet and Pendulum" was the last time they have played the song in concert!
This song is a masterpiece!
I have listened to the Wacken concert from beginning until the end., it's fantastic!
As for reacting to "The Greatest Show on Earth"... I would suggest you react to " Endless Forms Most Beautiful!" it's a lead into" The Greatest Show On Earth!"
Thanks for the excellent reaction!! By the way...I am a 64 year old heavy metal/ rock and roll enthusiast from way back to when I was young fella of 8 years old!I found Nightwish by chance in 2020....and I still don't know why I had never heard of them ever here in the US! Now...I listen to them all the time! They are fantastic!!
Oh..new subscriber!!! Texas Regiment Of Nightwish Army signing out!
Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Dear Thamesmen, even when this a sad song: liked a lot in your individual facial expressions during the progression.
Tuomas had known Tarja from high school. The rumors about anything more than an artistic involvement are baseless. When Nightwish finally had to let Tarja go it was a huge blow to the band and Tarja. It was widely reported in the news media here in Finland, and no-one got out of it smelling like roses. Half of * got heaped on Tarja, the second half on the band in general but especially on Tuomas. He was treading the danger border between ho-hum and you-know-what.
In this performance of 2015 Tuomas is the Tuomas with vigor, the band members coming to him at this stage was more a band tradition than actual need. He said in an interview something to the effect that he's no longer that person of 10 years past.
Thanks for the info!!! Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Symphonic Rock at its best.... Pain and music make great creative bedfellows....
I've probably seen dozens of reactions of this song and everytime I see people I appreciate this masterpiece even more. This might be my favorite song ever and I knew Nightwish only a year or so ago, Im glad that from that from that pain and dark time came out something so beautiful and powerful, and Im happy Toumas is still with us creating amazing music.
Well said. Thanks for being here. We have just started on this journey too
Tnx for your reacts!!greets from Finland!!
Hello and thank you for an amazing band!
Again I hear the same misconceptions about the song as always. This song is not about pain, it is about hate. The song is not about the breakuptself, it is mostly about what happened after the breakup when everybody had an (negative) opinion about the whole event, and the fans largely turned against Tuomas. The fans were angry about what had happened, they never would have believed it was even possible, and they blamed Tuomas for it. Tuomas received lots and lots of hate in that period, and that is what drove him into this depression. This song was his way to deal with all the negativity that became his part.
I went through a lot of therapy for a painful reason in my life. I grappled with this until I was told that hate is the truest form of love. You don’t hate people you don’t love. You only hate if you do love otherwise it’s nothing to you and you let the emotion go. To dwell on hate will be painful. I’m no expert at all and it’s just one persons opinion do feel free to disagree but this helped me through some dark times.
Nightwish army UK popping in for this masterpiece ... amazing song full of emotion, great reaction.
Stay Dry UK! Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Tuomas told that she had to kill himself in a song to avoid doing it in real life. You even can see Kai and Floor broken on that last part. So hard to see them that way.
Fully agree. Above and beyond all the other magnificent compositions, this is Tuomas`s masterpiece (to date…).
It really is a masterpiece
No worries mates. This was very well done. Loved it as usual. You guys ROCK! 🙏🙏🙏🤘🤘🤘☝☝☝👍
Thnaks for being here and joining in
Gentlemen, all my respect and appreciation is yours,thank you very much for responding to your favorite song.
Our pleasure. Thank you for being here
23:43 That's probably a reference to "the camp", when Tuomas revealed his vision of Nightwish to his close friends Emppu, Tarja I assume was there as well, Jukka. They were very young.
Ahhhh. Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
Im pretty sure i heard that they will not perform this song anymore ....which is selfishly unfortunate .
I believe the " mother father " section are actual words that his parents said to him .
You're right. At the height of his depression, Tuomas did go home. And were it not for his mother, he might really have killed himself. The words at the end were spoken to him by his mother.
@@martine3293 I thought so , thank you for letting me know !!
I can understand why! Thanks for being here and supporting us on this journey!
"Endlessness" i dare you!
When Emppu goes to talk with Tuomas at the begining, he was checking if his friend was fine. Good reaction!! Thanks!!! Greettings from Argentina!!!!
Thanks for watching!
This is a good song on its own. People, who listened to the song first, didn´t know the text and compared feelings and tragedies to their own experiences.
So interesting to watch the experience.
Thanks so much for sharing
Brilliant banter and Greatest music on Earth.
Hey Thamesmen! Lets goooooo!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Someone’s channeling Tank!
You guys are smarter than you look, lol. Excellent reaction and analysis of this masterpiece. Maybe I'll see you in L.A. as I have tickets too.
Chasing birds..... see you there and we are thick! I waved to myself in the mirror today , as I thought I recognized him
BTW Alex……. don’t stop about Floor being the best singer in Europe………. George is being a wimp!!! (Sorry George, you are a great guy!!!). She is the best female singer in the world, right at this time!!
SHE IS!~!!!! I WON'T NOW YO HAVE ENCOURAGED ME!!!
@@TheThamesmen I got your back!
You're only the second reactor's I've seen to really understand it. Nice job, guys
Thank you we appreciate your thoughts. With you how important this song was to everyone and so we did take our time to read up and consider it before we did the video. Apologies on our pronunciations even when we’ve been told multiple times we still get it wrong!
@@TheThamesmen Don't be too hard on yourselves XD It's tough to remember everything.
Hi guys. My reaction to your reaction is........ Excellent. You took time to do your homework on the background to this epic which it deserves. I thought your respect for Toumas is admirable. It's so easy to throw your penneth in but you didn't, which I respect. Keep it going, you're the best!
When you how important this song is to everyone and so did take some time reading up on it before hand. We’re glad we did though we are still discussing it now amongst ourselves as there is much to unfold
Mother and Father; the 5th section or Coda of the song, is taken from conversations with his parents when he came home super depressed. You have to remember Tuomas and Tarja were school mates. You can actually find videos of them together in school. Being a fan at the time, it was a lot of too many people saying too much shite about what should have been a semi-private matter. They penned the letter after Tarja was on a German T.V show and all but through them under the bus, based on things her new husband/manager said, to launch her solo carrier. Tarja had already made plans on leaving after their current album and tour. The original Dark Passion Play, was a song Tuomas wrote for Tarja, before she said she was leaving. And yes, the main basis of the song was about E.A. Poe. Tuomas is a well read person, who takes ideas from many literary sources. You can write a book on just this song, let alone all the other work they have done. Tuomas has said in interviews, this was his musical suicide note, so he didn't have to kill himself in reality. It is said he tells the techs not to have the words in his in-ears during this song in live performances.
Thanks for this and be well
😭😭😭⛄👬👍 (haha, you've done much better homework than most)
Still not enough!!
@@TheThamesmen ⛄👍
This is the last time we'll see this song live. Masterful performance!
A great analysis of this masterpiece! Thanks and all the best from Finland!
Hello Finland. Thank you for your support most appreciated
3 & 1/2 days stiil a long time to wait. Looking forward to it. Hope you did your homework. So much emotion with this one.
I hope so too!
Totally agree! Counting down…..
Excellent reaction guys!
Thank you for being with us
tuomas never said this but i think the pacific for him is so deep and full of mysteries.even dark and dangereous.he lost a siren and he won a siren.
Great reaction guys. Thanks for the time, respect, and appreciation you showed this piece of work, that has become something holy to the NW army.
Thanks for being here and be well
Now that you are aware of what they went through, you should react to the whole "End of An Era" show and see their body language, knowing what was gonna happen right after the show.
I have seen many clips from that tour and you can really see how much they all hated to be together... It was so clear. That split needed to happen. If it wouldn't there wouldn't be Nightwish today.
I think we should leave all that alone now.... especially after that pain in that song.
I'm not sure if anyone else has commented, but Tarja and her husband wrote a response letter to the band's open letter which explains things from her perspective. There were things that had happened that were handled poorly, and it caused a lot of tension on both sides. Also, Tarja found out about her open letter firing the same time the public did. It wasn't handled privately, however, and she actually found out when a journalist she was interviewing with asked her about it during the interview.
I read it. Very restrained x
When it comes to "The Pacific", I believe you're interpreting it too literally. While the Pacific can refer to the Pacific Ocean, the meaning of "pacific" is peaceful. In this case, he is thinking back to a more peaceful time in that chapter of Nightwish, where they were all friends, dreaming up the concept of this band, and what each person can bring to the table. Tuomas, Emppu, Tarja, Sami, and Jukka all dreaming of what Nightwish can be. And Tuomas leading the charge: "the guiding light that chose him, yet chose them all".
As for "the end" being the beginning, it is simple: The story is being told in retrospect. You're starting at the end, where that Poet is dead, but then retrospectively go back through his life up to what brought him to that point of being dead.
That's the beauty of Tuomas' writing: it has so many avenues of interpretation.
Ahhhh.... Its hard not to take it literally when he says PAcific :) I told you we are not smart
I’d really like to know how Tuomas’ parents think about Floor’s renditions of Mother and Father……………….
Proud!!!
Great reaction gentlemen! Thnx🙏🏼
Thank you too!
awesome reaction as always. This piece has a very special place in my life. I know the back story but this piece is also an anthem for those people with mental health issues such as depression with suicidal thoughts, Yep I am one of those! Also in the Pit and the Pendulum Poe talks about the point at which you both give up hope and accept the end, which you really get the sense of in this.
If I may I would like to give you my interpretation of the lyrics and what they mean to me.
The first part, which you note starts with the words the end!! Is taken from Stephen Kings Tower series, the white lands were the home of a type of vampire that fed on emotions, (empathy), so a person left feeling nothing, empty and without emotion.
In the second part, those lines expressing a feeling of futility, all same old same old yet, hating how you feel, then the verse seems to express the effort of trying to pretend to be ok, hence those two faces, one for everyone else and the real one that is private, no one to turn to for help as the people around you seem as upset as you so no shoulder to cry on so you just carry on pretending becoming that whore for the cold world. Then there is the remembering back to when all was good, yet you cannot get there despite everyone telling you “you are ok, it will be fine” till those words just sink you even further into the mess.
Then we have the Pacific, oh wow, the wishing and planning stage, the beautiful sea, just wishing it was over, that you could be under the waves, beneath the pain tucked into that beauty., last goodnight kiss and a valentine that ends everything.
Then that part that starts with being afraid, being raped, not in the traditional sense but feeling violated, alone and bloody scared, For Tuomas, feeling that those who he felt should have been there for him somehow betrayed him, a not uncommon feeling with severe depression, feeling that even life betrayed you, also again the mention of the tide and drowning, many see it as the perfect death!
On a side note here, three minutes and counting, yep exactly three minutes to the point that Tuomas simulates the blade.
Here also note how the music becomes chaotic, mirroring the thought process of someone planning their own death, no logic, well there is but only to the individual. Yet also a sense of excitement and of a journey, proceeding the calm.
Then the passion play, traditionally passion plays were performed at Easter and were about the death of Christ, and Tuomas plays with us a little here, “second robber to the right of Christ! Well at the crucifixion there was only one robber either side of Christ but in the painting The Last Supper the person second to the right of Christ is Judas!!!!!
Then of course the symbolic death and the slowing faltering heartbeat.
The beginning or last part of the piece are the words that brought Tuomas back from the edge. In his case words from his parents but many of us will have people who were there at just the right time and who cared enough to be the rock and love us enough to hold on.
If there is a message in this work surely it is to be kind, to look out for each other and if you can be there, you never know you may just save a person’s life. As someone did mine.
Pete….Helene here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and emotions with us. It gave me even more insight into this song, and allowed me to have even more empathy for the feelings that Tuomas (and others who are in the midst of deep depression) was struggling with. I sincerely hope that life is good for you now, and that you have found some semblance of peace in your soul. Thank you again for sharing.
Hi Pete. My wife suffers from depression and my heart bleeds for anyone with poor mental health. Seeing the pain she goes through I wish you,. my wife, anyone..... anyone with poor health all the love in the world!!
Almost everything is said in the earlier comments, for example that it wasn’t the letting go of Tarja that broke Tuomas, it was the hate from the public he couldn’t take. He didn’t know if he could go on but his good friend Tony Kakko (from band Sonata Arctica) persuaded him to continue. The one thing I need to mention is, that the”mother” is an actual reference to his mother. He got a lot of support from his parents and he has said that he loves his parents very much and thinks of them as his best friends. Thanks for the great reaction.
Thanks. Be well.
I'm glad I got to see that live, on what could be it's last performance. Amazing
Nightwish - PAN - 2020
Noted
Check the new Star One just released, ( The Ayreon guy) with Roy Khan, Tony Martin, Irene Jansen, Marcela Bovio... and oh yeah, guitarsolo by Steve Vai
Oh thanks for the tip. We love Ayreon!
@@TheThamesmen Yes, and Tony Martin ( ex black sabbath) still got it. track is called Lost children of the universe
lucky ii have cats.. even live thrue.....tht.... what ever :)
Redundant to say but what a fantastic reaction! And really appreciate the homework you guys did for this song in beforehand. Love the respect you guys pay as well as your true interrest in the meaning of the song. Hope to see many more NW reactions in the future, Its so very enjoyable to watch!
We love watching and learning from these videos. It is a journey that we are having a lot of fun and emotion with
There is some songs what I recommend check:
One Morning Left - Neon Highway and Beat It cover.
Also Eskimo Callboy - Hypa Hypa.
Beast in Black - Moonlight Rendenvouz
Many thanks!!
React to *Master Passion Greed* (No live to be found) (Message to Tarjas husbend Marcello who is behaind all of this drama) (Even Finlands PM come to Tuomas "What to F hawe you don "Are you grazy"??!!) You newer heard Marko SOOOO PIIIIST !!!!! Like in this one .
Well 99•9 % of the population of Europe couldn't name the Finnish PM if they were asked. I think many in Europe are familiar with one of Finlands most loved exports alongside wood pulp and Finlandia vodka
True, Thanks for being here and supporting us on this journey!
Poet and the Pendulum is not the only great song coming out of Tarja's firing. My favorite Nightwish song ever is "Master, Passion, Greed" which was written against Tarja's husband by both Tuomas and Marco. It's a dark, hard song, probably their hardest ever written rivalling "Yours is an Empty Hope."
Phew..... there's MORE drama!! Thanks for being here and supporting our little channel. More soon!
ya. pretty much.
Exactly!