If you were Ong Teng Cheong during that time, shouldering the responsibility to help govt make such a tough decision, would you hv cowered and settled for the easier, less expensive options (which we now know would hv been disastrous)? Or push through his choice of MRT with bus system? He was then only a Minister of State (for Communications). OTC was very courageous and visionary, he knew what was best for Singapore, and didnt bend backwards under tremendous pressure. A hero. We pay tribute to our late President Ong Teng Cheong, and will always be grateful to him.
For his achievements. OTH should have been given a state funeral but egotistic establishment thought otherwise. His vision and legacy shall be etched in Singapore’s history.
@@imycunt372 *But OTC fell out with LKY. LKY forced OTC not to seek a second term as head of state. And just to rub salt into the wound, OTC was denied a state funeral. This is how things are done in SG. If you cross the Lee family, even if the person crossing the Lees happens to be a Lee himself, watch out. LHY is now an outcast, an outcast who'll never return to SG because he crossed his big brother. LHY's son is a professor of economics at Harvard and he'll be arrested the moment he steps foot in SG, so he'll never return to his place of birth, either. SG is a highly vindictive and vengeful society. Basically, a giant prison camp. Or a police state. Pick your adjective. Little wonder then that thousands of SG people emigrate abroad, to Australia, to the USA, to the UK, to NZ. Those places are far more relaxed, far less threatening.*
Refreshing to see national issues being discussed in an open and respectful manner. Open sharing of data to substantiate their points helps us understand their thought process.
Another observation: no military scholars in that debate. Everyone present there left us with positive impressions: they did their homework, had worthy views to contribute, confident yet respectful. Somehow i feel that those from military background tend to exert their authority, maybe too used to the commanding style of managemt, rather than consultation & concensus style. Just my personal views.
Not all, my prof is a retired Colonel and he's amongst the most liberal and democratic in decision making. We always joke that's why he hentak kaki at Colonel 😂
I heard that once after retired Lieutenant General Desmond Kuek became the president and chief executive officer of the SMRT Corporation, everything went downhill.
This debate showcased the substance of our local talents. I am impressed by the local panelists. And that was the 70s and 80s, where ministerial salaries were not astronomical figures. Prof Bill Lim nailed it, as he stood firm on the need for a MRT with bus system. He was then the Dean of NUS Faculty of Architecture & Building Science. I marvel at our pioneer leaders' pick of talents. LKY & Goh Keng Swee team did a miraculous job of building Singapore from scratch.
Went to Singapore a few months back, the SMRT is one of the most amazing public transport system I've ever experience in my life in any country. I'm glad they did it and I would imagine Singaporeans are so grateful to be able to use such amazing transport system everyday. I would go to Singapore just to ride the MRT.
@@rc.... noo, not really. I've taken trains in Japan, Taiwan, China, HongKong and some countries in Europe. I think it's not necessarily the quality of the transportation, rather how small Singapore is and how well connected everything are.
Deep down I can't thank President Ong Teng Cheong enough. For someone like me who can't drive car, commuting by buses and taxis over long distances is simply not feasible due to slow speed (former) and high fare (latter). Ong Teng Cheong advocated for MRT against the advice of a team of Harvard experts hired by Lee Kuan Yew, which said that buses are enough to serve a small island like Singapore. Without the trains , i can't imagine how hard my life would be. Proud to have attended the same high school as him ✌️
I still have this book ‘opinion’ withe regards to adopting the MRT or All Bus System. A debate on this issues between 2 opposition profession group. p. s. Wah, All so young. Should be 70~90 yrs by now 2023.
Ong Teng Cheong posed challenging questions that didn't align with LKY's views, leading to his suppression. Today, we tend to overlook those who advocated for improving Singaporeans' quality of life, despite the state media's political bias.
This speaks volumes of everyone involved to have such an important process transparent for the citizens. If only they had such a discussion when they tabled the white paper to increase population to 6.9m
Thanks to the MRT, SG can now transport millions of foreign new immigrants around the island, not forgetting the millions of tourists that arrived in sg every month. Our MRT now is still undergoing expansion to meets the increasing needs of our rising population as well as tourists.
1) With the benefit of hindsight, it feels quite strange that people were debating over whether to build the MRT 2) It is really weird to see a bunch of "Ang Moh" debating this very important issue for Singapore. I don't believe we see that anymore.
Simply because using foreigners from reputable universities is seen as the best way to advance a viewpoint. These foreign specialists were only brought in after a debate in parliament in the early 1980s. "A team of specialists from Harvard University, recommended that an all-bus system would be sufficient into the 1990s, and would cost 50% less than a rail-based system." This team was likely put forward by opponents of the MRT system, mainly Goh Keng Swee and Tony Tan. "Later on, two independent American transport and urban planning specialist teams were then appointed by the government to conduct their own independent reviews as part of the Comprehensive Traffic Study in 1981. This debate was also brought to national television in September 1980, which was rare at that time. " They may be appointed by the government, but likely led by Ong Teng Cheong. When Singapore was ready to have our national examinations outsourced to Cambridge, it is not that unusual to enlist people from these foreign elite universities to push forward a debate based on facts alone rather than partisan opinion.
The number of angmo presenting is quite amazing. Given how much has changed since then. We cannot keep relying on "foreign" expertise. We have it already.
Foreigners were asked to be involved not simply because we supposedly lack talent. It is to allow third-party views which are more politically neutral, professionally objective, and bring with them real-life experiences from other cities which had already implemented or experimented with either transport model. People back then are certainly not reading too much into this as you do today.
Seeing the debate about having an MRT in Singapore reminds me of the debate in Penang about their LRT system and the debate still continues even after the federal government approved the construction of the line
We are a young nation! Our democracy will mature as long as we continue to vote in QUALITY people, not necessarily from the ruling party or opposition.
We can always learn valuable lessons from history, as this debate shows. Most importantly, that we need a good debate for crucial issues, eg safeguarding our national reserves, CECA, and how to stop wasting our local human resources. As we can see, it is beneficial to hear views from many experts with different backgrounds, rather than to hv the same old familiar teams, bcos after a while, become too agreeing, too inward looking and complacent.
The concern in this debate is cost. Com'on, everything in life there is cost. If MRT railway didn't happen, SG wouldn't be a metropolis city as it is today.
This is the most decisive decision that ever made by singapore govt. can you imagine singapore without MRT now. It was expensive by then but very useful for next generation.
long foresight is really important.. if the decision was to stay put because the current system is sufficient to handle to traffic into 90s, then the same study would have been required when time moved into the 90s.. the projection of population into 2000s would most likely be upward than downward and the study would most likely favor the construction of MRT. However, the construction of such infrastructure would have been more challenging by then than in the 80s because the road would have seen a lot more traffic. the country would have to endure a longer construction period in order not to severely disrupt the traffic conditions due to road closure, or in the worst case scenario, that the plan was deemed not executable anymore because of the traffic population. Take a few examples like Jakarta and Bangkok.
Professor William (Bill) Lim was far sighted and one that knew if this city were to challenge the great cities of the world we need to have a transit system like the rest of first world cities.
My goodness! For a while I was thinking that Prof Y T Lee was compering this TV discussion! 😱😁 Does anybody else think that this gentleman looks very similar to Prof Y T Lee, Taiwan's famous Chemistry Nobel Laureate?
A time when educated Singaporeans can participate in a debate without preparation material written by someone, and without hum and haws, putting their points eloquently across. These days no televised debates at school levels.
Wow, these are fine men and fine english. They speak more like english men as compared to today's sg parliament. In the yester years the term singlish isnt't coined and those who spoke as such are considered speaking broken english. I almost can't recognise Mah..
Short summary: Premise of increasing urban congestion with growth (thereby necessitating MRT) did indeed manifest, but blockhead nay-sayer had the vanity of under-investing in MRT capacity, resulting in a long period of FUBAR, i.e. lost the plot that prior wise mens had drawn out... One of the numpties participated in this debate, I don't have to tell you who...
Yeah, its like people who are news announcers and guests (including the ang mohs) speak good English on TV. Definitely not like news announcers now eh? *SMFH* Hopefully the ones upvoting are not Singaporeans or the future of Singapore will be on the shoulders of morons
Do u whole ass believe that that DONT speak Singlish at all, and that they would use Singlish in a televised formal debate? You’re not v smart, are you?
I'm against the construction of the MRT. It's too expensive and buses will serve us as well. I bet in 2023 we'll be regretting the construction of an MRT system and will be seeking to shrink our public transport network!!!
You're not wrong. Even former transport minister Khaw Boon Wan revealed that Singapore's LRT system is a failure. Moreover, with each station costing an average SGD 300m, it's hard to justify the benefits. There was even report done, stating that a tram system was simulated to deliver a greater cost benefit ratio as it was a lot more flexible and cheaper than trains.
![[Online Special] What makes up Singapore’s reserves? - Pt 1/5 | Singapore Reserves Revealed](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h0wI1dHL9sw/mqdefault.jpg)
If you were Ong Teng Cheong during that time, shouldering the responsibility to help govt make such a tough decision, would you hv cowered and settled for the easier, less expensive options (which we now know would hv been disastrous)? Or push through his choice of MRT with bus system? He was then only a Minister of State (for Communications). OTC was very courageous and visionary, he knew what was best for Singapore, and didnt bend backwards under tremendous pressure. A hero.
We pay tribute to our late President Ong Teng Cheong, and will always be grateful to him.
For his achievements. OTH should have been given a state funeral but egotistic establishment thought otherwise. His vision and legacy shall be etched in Singapore’s history.
We love President Ong TC! ❤
What do hard about the decision to have MRT?
@@rc.... for the Kia Su and always must be 101% sure, that’s hard.
@@imycunt372 *But OTC fell out with LKY. LKY forced OTC not to seek a second term as head of state. And just to rub salt into the wound, OTC was denied a state funeral. This is how things are done in SG. If you cross the Lee family, even if the person crossing the Lees happens to be a Lee himself, watch out. LHY is now an outcast, an outcast who'll never return to SG because he crossed his big brother. LHY's son is a professor of economics at Harvard and he'll be arrested the moment he steps foot in SG, so he'll never return to his place of birth, either. SG is a highly vindictive and vengeful society. Basically, a giant prison camp. Or a police state. Pick your adjective. Little wonder then that thousands of SG people emigrate abroad, to Australia, to the USA, to the UK, to NZ. Those places are far more relaxed, far less threatening.*
Refreshing to see national issues being discussed in an open and respectful manner. Open sharing of data to substantiate their points helps us understand their thought process.
back then yes, now not so
Lies again? Spank Bang Captain
And 43 yrs later wow ! Cannot imagine life without the MRT
You can, just look over to JB 😭
Neither can I.
Another observation: no military scholars in that debate. Everyone present there left us with positive impressions: they did their homework, had worthy views to contribute, confident yet respectful.
Somehow i feel that those from military background tend to exert their authority, maybe too used to the commanding style of managemt, rather than consultation & concensus style. Just my personal views.
Not all, my prof is a retired Colonel and he's amongst the most liberal and democratic in decision making. We always joke that's why he hentak kaki at Colonel 😂
well, the track for military scholars was'nt established yet in a relatively young nation.
its more about this panel is chaired by subject matter specialist
I heard that once after retired Lieutenant General Desmond Kuek became the president and chief executive officer of the SMRT Corporation, everything went downhill.
@@yanc6727 bro thats why he the exception mah cos he too happy go lucky to get the one star rank
This debate showcased the substance of our local talents. I am impressed by the local panelists. And that was the 70s and 80s, where ministerial salaries were not astronomical figures.
Prof Bill Lim nailed it, as he stood firm on the need for a MRT with bus system. He was then the Dean of NUS Faculty of Architecture & Building Science.
I marvel at our pioneer leaders' pick of talents. LKY & Goh Keng Swee team did a miraculous job of building Singapore from scratch.
They have to hold on to their power.
Not LKY, it was Goh Keng Swee’s brain that brought about the economic miracle Singaporeans are proud of today.
“Building Singapore from scratch” 😂
Respects to Mr Ong who push MRT forwards.👏💪
Went to Singapore a few months back, the SMRT is one of the most amazing public transport system I've ever experience in my life in any country. I'm glad they did it and I would imagine Singaporeans are so grateful to be able to use such amazing transport system everyday. I would go to Singapore just to ride the MRT.
You must not have been to many developed countries.
@@rc.... noo, not really. I've taken trains in Japan, Taiwan, China, HongKong and some countries in Europe. I think it's not necessarily the quality of the transportation, rather how small Singapore is and how well connected everything are.
Just imagine if this didn’t happen! What should be like?
BRT (Bus Rail Transit) just like Xiamen
@@AbcdEfgh-sq2tfthis is the current status quo
or the busway which failed badly@@AbcdEfgh-sq2tf
Become like jb
Everyone owned car no COE
Deep down I can't thank President Ong Teng Cheong enough. For someone like me who can't drive car, commuting by buses and taxis over long distances is simply not feasible due to slow speed (former) and high fare (latter).
Ong Teng Cheong advocated for MRT against the advice of a team of Harvard experts hired by Lee Kuan Yew, which said that buses are enough to serve a small island like Singapore.
Without the trains , i can't imagine how hard my life would be. Proud to have attended the same high school as him ✌️
very bright minds, they are just a small portion of a group of impressive men that made Singapore today
Bruno Wildermuth is a true legend. He is still a resident in Singapore and only retired a few years ago.
Those days, they spoke so much better, clearer English
Now is Singlish
His English is very fluent :)
@@90Lengthose spoke bad English then too, just not so much on TV
@@JeffDayzwas
U have PCK and Police and Thief to thank for that
I recognize the express service described from 31:00 as SBS Bus #8. It was eventually closed once the East-West line got underway.
Tony Tan was all against the idea of building MRT system. What a president.
"Witnessing Singapore’s first Olympic gold win was one of the highlights of my presidency" - Tony Tan
This Tony Tan was a sleeping President during his term.
wondered why LKY favoured him so much.
Because of his hair cream
It prove one thing he is not foresighted than Mr Ong Teng Chong a person
現在回頭看40年前還有這種debate真的蠻好笑的😁
I still have this book ‘opinion’ withe regards to adopting the MRT or All Bus System.
A debate on this issues between 2 opposition profession group.
p. s. Wah, All so young.
Should be 70~90 yrs by now 2023.
Ong Teng Cheong posed challenging questions that didn't align with LKY's views, leading to his suppression. Today, we tend to overlook those who advocated for improving Singaporeans' quality of life, despite the state media's political bias.
This speaks volumes of everyone involved to have such an important process transparent for the citizens. If only they had such a discussion when they tabled the white paper to increase population to 6.9m
Thanks to the late President, Mr. Ong Teng Chong . for the MRT system
😊 Correct 💯
Once upon a time where there's actual real debate about public policy...
Major changes… now… Lee Kuan Yew used to be seen as Dictator.
Is there one now?
This standard of English was commendable. Today, everyone at CNA trying to sound American, which isn't even the standard we use in Singapore
All thanks to Ong Teng Cheong who faced so much resistance from his colleagues.
Thanks to the MRT, SG can now transport millions of foreign new immigrants around the island, not forgetting the millions of tourists that arrived in sg every month. Our MRT now is still undergoing expansion to meets the increasing needs of our rising population as well as tourists.
1) With the benefit of hindsight, it feels quite strange that people were debating over whether to build the MRT
2) It is really weird to see a bunch of "Ang Moh" debating this very important issue for Singapore. I don't believe we see that anymore.
This is why foreign talents are needed.
1) Hindsight is always 20/20.
2) Probably consultants or "experts" lor.
now times are different. they did assist us a great deal though.
Simply because using foreigners from reputable universities is seen as the best way to advance a viewpoint. These foreign specialists were only brought in after a debate in parliament in the early 1980s.
"A team of specialists from Harvard University, recommended that an all-bus system would be sufficient into the 1990s, and would cost 50% less than a rail-based system."
This team was likely put forward by opponents of the MRT system, mainly Goh Keng Swee and Tony Tan.
"Later on, two independent American transport and urban planning specialist teams were then appointed by the government to conduct their own independent reviews as part of the Comprehensive Traffic Study in 1981. This debate was also brought to national television in September 1980, which was rare at that time. "
They may be appointed by the government, but likely led by Ong Teng Cheong.
When Singapore was ready to have our national examinations outsourced to Cambridge, it is not that unusual to enlist people from these foreign elite universities to push forward a debate based on facts alone rather than partisan opinion.
2) i beleive those westerners are probably invited here to help solve our problems, but definitely is with business interest naturally
The number of angmo presenting is quite amazing. Given how much has changed since then. We cannot keep relying on "foreign" expertise. We have it already.
Why would you need to " " the word foreign???
@@rc.... why not ? It is a sacred cow even up till today only from a different country.
Foreigners were asked to be involved not simply because we supposedly lack talent. It is to allow third-party views which are more politically neutral, professionally objective, and bring with them real-life experiences from other cities which had already implemented or experimented with either transport model.
People back then are certainly not reading too much into this as you do today.
@@huaiwei Singaporeans are always "not" productive or smart. Thats the prevailing thing even till today.
@@pigmoonk2545 quotations isn't about sacred cows 😂 it isn't used when there is a fear of using certain words...that's why!
Seeing the debate about having an MRT in Singapore reminds me of the debate in Penang about their LRT system and the debate still continues even after the federal government approved the construction of the line
We should have more of these debates to spur Singaporeans interest in national matters. Nation building never stops!
now we have a sort of squables in the parliament...
We are a young nation! Our democracy will mature as long as we continue to vote in QUALITY people, not necessarily from the ruling party or opposition.
We can always learn valuable lessons from history, as this debate shows. Most importantly, that we need a good debate for crucial issues, eg safeguarding our national reserves, CECA, and how to stop wasting our local human resources. As we can see, it is beneficial to hear views from many experts with different backgrounds, rather than to hv the same old familiar teams, bcos after a while, become too agreeing, too inward looking and complacent.
The concern in this debate is cost.
Com'on, everything in life there is cost. If MRT railway didn't happen, SG wouldn't be a metropolis city as it is today.
One day we'll probably be having this debate over constructing a $1 trillion space elevator from Marina Bay to Orbital Station 14-2.
This is the most decisive decision that ever made by singapore govt. can you imagine singapore without MRT now. It was expensive by then but very useful for next generation.
Wow Singapore so forwarding thinking. Singapore is the best ❤
Please upload part 2 of this video. Thank you.
long foresight is really important.. if the decision was to stay put because the current system is sufficient to handle to traffic into 90s, then the same study would have been required when time moved into the 90s.. the projection of population into 2000s would most likely be upward than downward and the study would most likely favor the construction of MRT. However, the construction of such infrastructure would have been more challenging by then than in the 80s because the road would have seen a lot more traffic. the country would have to endure a longer construction period in order not to severely disrupt the traffic conditions due to road closure, or in the worst case scenario, that the plan was deemed not executable anymore because of the traffic population. Take a few examples like Jakarta and Bangkok.
Delightful blast from the past!
At that point of time, even Singaporean also have divided view on whether to build MRT. During that time even Japan metro was losing money yearly.
For Part 2, title is the same, but ending with (Part 2/2).
Wow this guy is the first ceo of the public housing in sg!
Professor William (Bill) Lim was far sighted and one that knew if this city were to challenge the great cities of the world we need to have a transit system like the rest of first world cities.
1:22 background is Hong Kong MTR?
Yes, Kwung Tong station oposite the firehouse, with a Victory 2/Dennis Jubilant bus
1984 instead of mrt . Msia PM Dr.Mahati. Decide to built Msia car name Proton. Today 2023 . Proton is not even a taxi in the 3rd world. 😂
Anyone other than me is getting ASMR on the left ear while muted on the right?
YES... the answer is YES.
My goodness! For a while I was thinking that Prof Y T Lee was compering this TV discussion! 😱😁
Does anybody else think that this gentleman looks very similar to Prof Y T Lee, Taiwan's famous Chemistry Nobel Laureate?
Singapore is Uhmazing! A true visionary! ❤
Tks for uploading.
Shall we also put COE policy under such a debate?
they claim Lee Kuan Yew was dictator. But issues were often debated.
We have to be open to suggestion but finally we have to make our own decision and we did.
With hindsight, thinking that a network of express bus route is better than a rail network is extremely short sighted and absolutely hilarious.
35 years later, which is now....tracks are already worn n torn
A time when educated Singaporeans can participate in a debate without preparation material written by someone, and without hum and haws, putting their points eloquently across. These days no televised debates at school levels.
Kenneth made so much noise yet said nothing. Exactly what I expect from an American boomer.
BRT vs Metro vs City buses
I was in secondary school then. So long ago
Was SG population under 3m in 1980 ?
PAP should remind all voters especially the new generation of voters of this in the next GE.
Remind voters Tony Tan was fiercely against building the MRT?
OTC forever our hero
Who are the living and dead ppl here?
Their English very good.
Wow, these are fine men and fine english. They speak more like english men as compared to today's sg parliament. In the yester years the term singlish isnt't coined and those who spoke as such are considered speaking broken english. I almost can't recognise Mah..
what year was this?
Short summary: Premise of increasing urban congestion with growth (thereby necessitating MRT) did indeed manifest, but blockhead nay-sayer had the vanity of under-investing in MRT capacity, resulting in a long period of FUBAR, i.e. lost the plot that prior wise mens had drawn out... One of the numpties participated in this debate, I don't have to tell you who...
tony tan is the one who reject the mrt plan. mfk.
Thanks to MRT, SG can now transport millions of new CECA every month, not to miss millions of new citizens and their family around Singapore
least racist S*ngaporean
MRT Singapore is best in the world allowing forign worker to go anyway cheaply in the city.
not having singapore accent
Singaporeans spoke English much better back then! Why did we go down the path of Singlish?
EXCATLY, why are people in 1980 speaking better english than our current team...........
@Andy-ik9ti Ask the current leadership... SAD
Yeah, its like people who are news announcers and guests (including the ang mohs) speak good English on TV. Definitely not like news announcers now eh? *SMFH* Hopefully the ones upvoting are not Singaporeans or the future of Singapore will be on the shoulders of morons
Do u whole ass believe that that DONT speak Singlish at all, and that they would use Singlish in a televised formal debate? You’re not v smart, are you?
科学，高效，邓小平当年便以新加坡为师
Excellent mix of talents both local and overseas
Whose the foolish one now? 😂😂😂😂
Why’s Mindef doing a study on this? This whole video makes me question govt efficiency.
mrt best bro i can go anywhr
They spoke better English then.
so that ang moh speaking first is noob.
I'm against the construction of the MRT. It's too expensive and buses will serve us as well. I bet in 2023 we'll be regretting the construction of an MRT system and will be seeking to shrink our public transport network!!!
Luckily Singapore didn’t have any politicians included the opposition parties like you! Heng ah!!!
username checks out lol
@@vicho8762 Tell me you don't understand sarcasm without telling me you don't understand sarcasm
You're not wrong. Even former transport minister Khaw Boon Wan revealed that Singapore's LRT system is a failure. Moreover, with each station costing an average SGD 300m, it's hard to justify the benefits. There was even report done, stating that a tram system was simulated to deliver a greater cost benefit ratio as it was a lot more flexible and cheaper than trains.
Thanks idiot for the suggestions
😊we don't like him. This man married an Australian woman