Just to be clear too, neither I nor Silly knew the other was working on a video like this; we just happened to come to the same conclusion around the same time and made independent videos about it. Check out Silly's video here: ua-cam.com/video/eDbanJ0ouwY/v-deo.html
I’ve never gotten the mentality behind “the hardest fights are at Meta”. Honestly the hardest fought invasions are woods at sl30-40 against tricked out, optimized sl50-60 ganks where (unless you’re using DSA) a wet noodle would do more damage than your weapon
I agree. Plus, you get a lot of awful/non-twink co-invaders. You literally can't win if you've got your own team mates hitting you or feeding estus. Invasions in the woods are cancer.
Huh, I'm going to have to try invading there to see what you're talking about. I'm normally at meta, and the only invasions I see at SL30-40 are the ones that happen to me as I run through the game. I really hope it doesn't turn out like you're saying, that woul really, really suck lol.
@@Eric_The_Cleric There's a bit of a mix in the woods, you get twinks hosting improptu fight clubs, newbies, regular ganks then the absolute tryhard gank squads with OL phantoms which, unsurprisingly enough, are fucking cancer.
Partly why I like the woods is that the wet noodle aspect means I can survive a bit better, but as Amish has commented - that also lets you get away with mistakes that you might be drilling into your muscle memory
Wow, they really were similar :) At the end of the day fun is paramount. Sure, the people you invade at meta post-pontiff do tend to be better on average than the people you invade everywhere else in the game, and fighting good players is the best way to improve, but the main draw of improvement, for me at least, is that it's fun to get better. But if the process is often not fun besides the actual improvement itself, then it probably just isn't worth it to get better through that process overall, and it's better to find a different way to improve where the process is fun.
"Invade at meta," to me, is a relic of the DaS1 (and maybe Demon's, didn't play) era when invasions doubled as a more reliable way to find duels than using soapstones (because peer-to-peer limits on sign visibility). Unless you're still at the point where people are doing NG+ runs in large numbers, like shortly after a game's release, very few people you invade at meta level are actually playing through the level with intent to beat it. But invasions are designed with the idea that the host IS trying to beat the level, and moreso that as the games progressed and Fromsoft refined the design implementation of the multiplayer. So I, too, stopped focusing on meta-level invading after DaS2 (either max SM bracket or min. SM for SL 150), and I actually never made a single meta-level character in DaS3 that was intended as an invader. Not only has it resulted in encountering fewer ganks and been more fun for me, but I don't wind up with beloved, but stranded, characters once the population well and truly moves on (e.g. my 120 Bloodborne character with ~400 hours on him can only really find duels now; my BL 43 and BL 75 can get near constant invasions even 5 years after launch). I do respect the people who can beat such dire odds, but I've little interest in subjecting myself to them. Esp. when a lot of the "tech" starts being abuse of glitches that allow one shots or complete negation of counterplay (e.g. the DS3 glitches like FaP Ring and bow, as opposed to the DS1 glitches that "balanced" the game out like toggle-escape, or the DS2 ones that made the game less clunky and still had counterplay like quick-attack/quick-roll).
Seconded on the problem of player actions clashing with design principles! While we can always deal with these problems on a personal level (be it through glitching or just BC out of the world), it's good to reflect on root causes.
Completely agree. I didn't invade much in earlier games, so cannot comment on that, but organic invasions are so much more fun to me than dealing with optimized ganks at meta.
Honestly I’ve just never liked invading Pontiff or the Woods. I have a few of my own personal reasons as well. I prefer to play in other areas because I like to invade on my own. That’s what I call true invading. Plus it seems like more times then not there’s this thing that happens where “strays” follow you home in your inbox & are salty for petty reasons, then they just take it really far with the whole grudge thing. By the way Amish I’ve been watching a lot of your videos the past few days & I like your view points on a lot of topics. They’re similar to my own
Another reason you'll find fewer good reds at meta levels/locations is that a lot of decent to good players also avoid that. I like having a variety of level ranges, but I don't even have any builds past SL 90 anymore, and most are in 45-75. Playing at the so-called meta is no longer meta.
it'll be a very painful road, but after 200 hours, I can reliably take down 3 man ganks if they get too coplacent, my punish game has gotten better as well with backstabs. It'll just take a lot of dedication and pain.
@@w1nr322 well, im now at 800 hours lol. Get better at spacing. Learning to put yourself in a position where you can punish them but they can't punish you is the most important part of this game. And get a feel for psychology. For example. When you're low, people will tend to desperately r1 you to death, use this to your advantage because people get so caught up in trying to kill you they make many mistakes themselves, next thing they know, they've been parried or back stabbed. The lower you are the more desperate they become.
SL90 is where it's at. I've been doing a lot of PvP at this level recently and I'm having a blast. You can basically finish your build, you get to invade a variety of great areas, and there's plenty of hosts/phantoms playing through the game as intended. Personally, I don't think I'll ever do meta invasions. Constantly enountering organised ganks from across the other side of the world isn't my idea of fun. Defeating 3 average players at SL90 with high latency is hard enough for me.
I can't get over how much I enjoy your honest, humble, no nonsense approach to each point you bring up. I just found you today, and I'm very glad I did. Thought provoking and informative.
I feel like you really should have mentioned just how glitch heavy everything has gotten as well. Gankers at pontiff not only estus cancel and fap spam, but they also constantly top off their estus with bow/parting flame. I miss organically surviving for 30 minutes on skill and good decision making just skirting around the edges of battles wearing people down. Why do that when the gank is at full estus and will fap glitch away to top off estus/resummon if I start to gain a health advantage? Savescummed siegs and blessings are also a necessity and I hate it.
@Jinxed Swashbuckler I agree with everything except DS3 being more broken than DS1. DS1 imposed levels of brokenness not yet reached by other games. DS2 is the "best" out of the bunch in that regard, that's for sure.
I always find it funny that people say that siegs balance out pvp in DS3 when they are effectively upgraded life gems from DS2. You know the thing people always complain about in DS2.
I'm OK with ganking, but when it was inexperienced players looking to compensate for their inexperience. When ganks are run by good players, they have too many advantages and it is not fun.
I agree with you amish, that’s why I don’t invade meta level pontiff either. And you know, Ringed City is getting like this as well. Good video as always, took inspiration from you and dangitjm for my recent videos!
Just soemthing off topic real quick: I think it's so cool to see that you have a 200 likes to 5 dislikes ratio. Really shows how much we love you, happy easter
Thanks! Funny, enough, 4 of those dislikes always come within about an hour of the video going up, so I'm pretty sure there are a handful of people who are subscribed only to leave dislikes on my videos.
@@iamamish that's a shame, well, should you decide to create one, you dont have to administer it all yourself, for example, you could make two or three people you trust admin, but you probably know that already
This was weirdly validating, thanks Amish. I was invading all day at 60+7 today and having an absolute blast haunting the dungeon and Lothric castle, and then moved to meta and realized I was having a lot less fun. Not just that the ganks were harder, though they usually were; it was that they were either optimized to the point of absurdity or passive to such an extent that it made me fall asleep at the wheel. On my first invasion in TRC, I spawned as the projectile-heavy gank killed the last of the Haralds, but instead of fighting the 3v1 with no PvE left, the gank literally just turned tail and ran all the way from the streets to the inner wall bonfire, for maximum campiness advantage. At that point I just sat my character down and turned on Netflix and hung out for an hour because I felt wasting their time and catching up on my shows was the only way I could get any fun out of that situation. The transition to meta from mid-level felt like night and day. You get passivity at mid level, but at least folks are pressured to progress, and the overleveleds are more glass cannon-y so they die quick to smart plays (or a buffed LKGS). These days low level can also wear on me, but the sweet spot of 60-90 has been really nice. I even get invasions in some of the coolest, less common areas like Snowy Mountain Pass - it’s such a treat, honestly. The variety makes the game so fun.
haha, same here buddy. I've beaten every souls game multiple times, but never really PvP'd until the Demon's Souls Remake got me into it. I've gotten pretty good at that, so have been giving DS3's PvP a shot. My dueling record is getting close to 50-50, but in the chaotic Aldrich fights, I'm lucky if I escape without death like 5% of the time lol
Since Sillydog’s video I’ve been mostly taking a break from meta pontiff (though not ringed city) and trying out some different levels more frequently to see what I can extract from them. I think I got into a mental hole with feeling like I wasn’t good enough at the game to criticize meta pontiff or avoid it without it just being an ego shield. I don’t want to wind up in a position where I’m just avoiding challenging invasions, but I have to say that not reloading my save on a daily basis has been a huge quality of life improvement. Not dealing with that or getting the last hit on a host and finding out they have nodead on or getting shadowrealmed if you land a riposte is... much more enjoyable in all honesty. Different soul levels offer different opportunities. You can work on higher risk skills or ones you don’t have consistently yet (for me it’s reversing backstabs when someone rolls into me atm) at lower SL’s where punishment isn’t as severe. You can still find very skilled hosts and ganks if you choose where you invade (SL 90 ringed/archives, for instance). The game still has a lot to offer, and unlike meta pontiff, once you see one gank you haven’t seen them all. But I think that there being a discussion about meta pontiff means it holds it’s own place in that variety the game has to offer. I’m not off meta pontiff for good I don’t think, though I totally understand why many people will be, but for now I’m going to try and appreciate the variety the game has to offer a little bit more.
I think the worse experience in pvp i got was when i was fighting with phantom u kno regular 1v1 and when host saw that his phantom is near to death i got backstabbed by host :/
GG! That was fun, I got lucky and just barely caught you with that first charged r2, and if I'd have whiffed that, the fight would have gone quite differently
Invasions at meta have always been in a weird spot with the way an invaders HP caps at 1300 in DS3. Its almost like Fromsoft never really intended for you to be invading Timmy and his 3 phantoms at SL120 where you can die in 3 hits... But thats the beauty of Souls, those who want to play at meta can, and those of us that like to actually have fun can play at SL44 or 90 :P
Exactly. And as I mentioned, this was definitely NOT intended as a critique of people who enjoy that experience - have at. It was an answer to the many questions I get - "hey Amish why don't you invade meta?"
I'm still completely green at this game I just picked it up a month ago. I dont shy away from getting invaded though I always run around embered. 99% of the time I get my ass handed to me but sometimes I'll get a clutch win. I avoid invading others cause most of the time its 1v4. Thanks for taking the time to keep making DS3 videos.
Cato Hostilius glad to hear you actually fight. That’s how you get better. So many people disconnect or simply play offline. You get better by fighting and dying. Eventually, you’ll feel better actively invading.
Cato Hostilius gank squads get almost everybody lol. When it’s 3 or 4 on 1 with no PvE left, you generally lose (except for the best of the best). When you get better though, you learn to handle people 2 on 1. When you win the 3 or 4 on 1 matches, you feel like a god lol. Keep playing!
@@del1000005 sooner or later that day will come when I hold my ground against a gank lol. I appreciate your replies and hope you stay safe during this crazy pandemic.
I've been invading at sl44 (Central Irithyll/Cathedral/Catacombs/sometimes the swamp) for many months now, and sometimes running Gank City at sl55. Both feel waaaay more fun and organic than anything approaching meta. Organized ganks aside, the damage-to-HP ratio alone makes lower level a lot more fun for me. There is more room for error, and pressure is more important to chip down health. When I go back to the 'three hit kills' at meta (and one mistake = blender instakill), it just seems boring and frustrating by comparison.
Great commentary man. I don't much a meta either. Also I prefer the more organic invasions like you. Plus I'm doing cosplays that in most cases wouldn't stand a chance in organizined gank situations.
Question: Do you think next souls like games (including ER) should have friendly fire turned on for co-opers? it could make invasions more interesting and less brain dead blender,some summons could troll the hosts with it but fromsoftware could implement a reputation system to know whant kind of people you'd summon. Or maybe have friendly fire turn on only when someone invades. Some invaders would see it as ez mode but it could actually make hosts improve to adapt
Yea i like the idea more too, but when i thought about both concepts they might be tricky, imagine someone, say an invader get a parry and the host would hit the phantom to get him out of riposte frames, people would also run offhand low damage weapons to hit their friends and save them from a true combo or stuff like that
It truly is sad to say after playing this game for years, I am closing the books here really soon on it as far as me playing. I have always been an invader at heart, never really cared much for the try hard duels. A really good friend of mine taught me a bunch of important lessons that apply to pvp/invasions. Your perspective here is right on par with the way I think. I also agree with QY as to their favorite range being SL90. I have found that SL90 also sits better with me as well. I also like the SL60 range as I have a none optimized dark build going on there as well, but I have a lot of fun with it. Here recently meta Pontiff invasions has turned into absolute craziness. Last invasion I did there, I was caught right in the back (only Aldrich there go figure) with the sacred flame bow glitch. GG I guess smh. So us as invaders try to find another range to get our gank stomping in, then oh you got the summon glitch to deal with now. Last time I invaded on my 60+6, host summons his buddy red that comes out of nowhere and starts fighting me. I knew it was their buddy because I literally saw the summoning dark spirit message, then no scale down icon on that red. It has honestly became cancer invasions in general on the PS4, hence why I believe it is time to throw in the towel after so many years of playing.
@@shtshw eh, I thought I was done a few years ago too, this game is pretty on off for me as well, but overall I guess I'm a masochist cause I always come back even though I think I'm done with the game. But ultimately it's you who chooses weather or not that's the case for you.
@@MsDestroyer900 I wish it wasn't so because tbh almost all newage games suck IMHO. You try to find a range where you have the least amount of stupid (I call glitches stupid) to deal with, and the exploits have expanded the meta so much that it is nearly unplayable from an invasion perspective. I would honestly just rather call it quits on being a serious invader because the playstyle I use is a thing of the past no ifs ands or buts about it sadly.
@@shtshw I guess that is kinda sad. Although really hate the bow glitch (It's an absolute crutch and has nearly 0 counterplay) I guess I can see how some people wouldn't wanna play hardcore invasions the same way I do. But imo I find disrespecting password phantoms 10x more satifying than getting ganked to death. at least when I get ganked to death, I can safely say in my heart that they only won because it was a ridiculous 4v1 and many people woulnt have survived odds like that, but oh boy when you do beat a 4v1 It feels so much better than beating a hard boss in this game (a feeling i havent felt in a while as well). If you like pve however, with souls-like elements. You should play monster hunter world. I've been playing since the 2nd game in the series and I can honestly say the game has great boss mechanics and is also a fun game for friends. It's gank the boss the game tbh. And this recent game is most likely to be the most acessible for beginners since you play this game with dual stick, instead of the older games where you can only really play with one.
I’ve been avoiding meta pontiff since 2019. It was just getting way too frustrated for me (mostly due to the glitches and bad co-invaders) I’ll do mid-level pontiff but that’s it. (Then again I might change my point of view in a few hours)
I prefer other areas for the better level design, primarily a more linear design instead of pontiffs ring around the Rosie set up. Arch dragon peak, grand archives and ariandel are pretty nice. I will do pontiff/trc but I don't lurk for long as it is frustrating. Great vid. Keep it up
Good video man! Playing at Gank City is like attaining your Masters in Invasions. I recently spent two full weekends there with my cleric build. I didn't win many matches and got wiped on every gank. But! I learnt so much on cast speed, and spacing. That might sound like trivial but being a cleric and casting spells to counter is not the easiest thing ever.
As a moderately skilled player, I also share the same sentiments as you do. Unfortunately I play exclusively on Ps4 and Pontif meta is the only place that has to most activity.
Try Lothric Castle, on PS4 you'll often find young sunbros trying to get those sunmedals. Funtimes. Crux Woods can have a few diamond in the rough hosts if you enjoy social fight clubs or rainbow fights with all colors. I find SL30/60/120 on ps4 (people trying for wolfblood grass) I also find Central Irrithyl is quite busy for pvp, without as many ganks or havel monsters as pontiff. Some are like minded PvPers tired of Havel Ganks-and some are newer players trying to get past.
I’m definitely in the invader-as-obstacle camp. Duels are mostly boring to me. I love the levels and enjoy the added variety for where fights can break out. It’s not that I want to stack the deck in my favor with npcs, it’s that I enjoy being on the receiving end of an invasion and wondering what corner the invader is gonna pop out of. That feeling of fear and anxiety when you spot a red coming down some stairs and you rush to finish the mobs you’ve already engaged is so unique to Souls. I love that mechanically it’s a counter to coop. Sure, you can gang up with friends to circle jerk the ai, but you’re gonna have real players showing up to bring the difficulty back. I absolutely love the ramparts of Pontiff leading up to Anor Londo. I’ve made so many great memories of epic clashes on narrow walkways with archers launching ballistic missiles and the terror of seeing another invader connection. In the era of walkthroughs and wikis, it’s nice to know that every play through isn’t just going to hit the same beats. Organized ganks sitting around the bonfire waiting to mock duel and then jump in as soon as their guy is losing is just lame. It’s fun watching a pro take on an optimized straight sword, ugs, soul spear combo but I just don’t have the patience for it. I also don’t have the patience or will to save scum a million seigbraus and divine blessings. I know it isn’t that hard, but it just feels dirty. I want the challenge of knowing we both have relatively equal and sparse resources and 14 estus, 10 brews and 2 blessings doesn’t fit my definition of sparse. It extends the fights to a point that I just get bored and make mistakes so I can move on to start over fresh.
I feel you bud. Some of my favorite invasions are at max so level where you can just constantly change cosplays. But the hardcore organized ganks at pontiff will just demoralize me eventually.
The thing that always ground my gears more than anything was the connections. I'm trying to train and learn and get hit via phantom range on some player who is well out side of visual range for any weapon he holds. Made working on spacing and reaction feel impossible.
Lv 60+6 is fun in the dungeons, irythll and maybe catacombs. I have done lots of "meta" invasions. In fact I ran out of space in my box for pale tongues. This video is spot on. (Except for trashing on favor toggling, sometimes even a poise turn and burn is too risky for 3 phantoms layering shockwave crucifix running attacks and cbvs at 120). Bow glitch is reserved exclusively for gankers who glitch past the down scaling. I had to put down a sl515 with my level 60 a few days ago and he was able to tank 10 great arrows. The guy did 800 to me with curved sword running attacks and would have killed in one stunlock.
favor toggling will always be a bigger friend to gank squads than it is to invaders. I get the utility of it, but I've had my fill of chasing hosts who use it as a 'get out of jail free' card during invasions. Not 10 minutes ago at SL 90 I ran into somebody with full Havel's, Havel's greatshield, DSGA 1h, and was medium rolling and doing crazy amounts of damage. He had no downscaling icon, so was most likely abusing the glitch. Really frustrating.
I'm bad, but I finished the Watchdogs at 25 +2, Aldrich Faithful and Warriors of Sunlight at 45 +6. Working on Shackles now. Been invading for a couple months
Great video explaining it amish, all these points are 100% true and the fact the 90% of my coinvaders at meta pontiff are terrible. I would much rather solo host sometimes than invade cause it's frustrating when i got a 3v3 and my two coinvaders die within seconds. Then i end up dying to a 3v1 and these people are definitly skilled
@@iamamish This is 100% true. I think what frustrates me the most is that when i host, i get the good players invading me, versus when i invade, i get the noobs
I understand man, furthermore, at meta level the host is way stronger than any other level cuz often the host is a duelist who know the pvp, the meta weapon, glitch, and generally who to play against every opponent
I love getting invaded using dried fingers at the gank city at sl80. The way the game's balanced makes it feel really good when you are outnumbered by random invaders. You have more hp and twice the heals, while they could have been unprepared, dragged out of their world by aldritch faithfuls covenant to fight you, especially at sl80. Still, they have the numbers and the mobs on their side to fight you back, which creates some really fun encounters.
I agree with you. My only issue is that when you're outnumbered, your strategic options really don't amount to much - you're looking at either turn & burns, relying on the invaders to hit each other, or running away.
Not so much on invasions but on red sign summon fighting, I still get plenty of noobs at Pontiff. But yeah 90% of my invasions there are people just waiting to gank. But then again, the reason these areas are so popular to invade is that you're almost gaurenteed to get Aldrich's, Watch Dogs, or Spears to help you.
I usually only invade Pontiff Meta & Max. I like fighting against finely tuned ganks. The level depends on my mood, because they are so sweaty. As you go up in SL and stat investment starts to become not a thing anymore, and real builds disappear over the horizon, for some reason I like that chaos.
More than anything, I relate to your point on whether the host and phantoms engage with the level: I strongly believe that PvP is at its best when your co-invader is the level and its mobs, and at its worst when either the party won't try to complete their goal or has already cleared the level and won't progress. I think we, your viewers and invaders ourselves, understand the asymmetry baked into DS3's balance, but the community at large doesn't (hence the demand for things like arenas). To be clear, any of these problems can be solved at the personal level through equally passive play, indulgence in glitches and cheats, or the good old black crystal, but their prevalence speaks to a deeper problem. I may be preaching to the choir, but if I could magically cause every player to want to play the level, I think the community would be far healthier than if I removed every glitch we know of or guaranteed skilled coinvaders. Yet, in spite of the principles that FROM has based their PvP on, I think they've done a poor job of explaining how and why they do so. A really good example is how you deal with Creighton in Sirris' questline, where your goal as "hosts" is to kill the invader within one very safe zone -- this is unrealistic! Or how NPC dark spirits drop key loot that can't be found any other way. New players are not only given a material incentive to kill dark spirits, but shown that's a goal unto itself; these principles are not transferable to online play, where a host (let alone their white/gold phantoms!) scarcely earns anything from killing reds. I can only hope that going forward into Elden RIng and beyond, FROM is more careful about what they teach players, and more open with what they seem to believe the goals of online play really are.
On ps4 its sl120 or around/+. No questions. Theres no players except at invasion areas like ringed city or pontiff, trying to get a darkmoon blade on a character is practically impossible as well.
For a long time now I play DS very rarely and don't care about improving, winning and all of that stuff. However, when I occasionally invade, I 100% agree with you that it's much more fun to invade people in their "natural habitat". Like when host with phantom(s) clear the level or just pretending that they do that :) In any location basically (except gank locations obviously). And as you said it's not because they are "casuls" and I'm a big boy. Just it's more natural, more fun for both parties I guess, well for me for sure XD, and overall it's just completely different experience than tryharding at meta. Btw I'm also not saying that meta is bad, just it's ganks all over the shop. That's why "natural" invasions on any level are a much more better way to enjoy the game.
@@Joseph-jn1xb yeah areas that are typically active are the woods (SL 20 - 50), central irithyll (SL 45 - 60), Archives (SL 65 - 90), Dragonkin Mausoleum (SL 60 - 90), and Lothric Castle (SL 60 - 90). If you're looking for a new build I'd try SL 70 - 80 and see how that goes. Good luck!
I play on the ps4 and i still find ringed city (invasion city) Meta level a lot of fun, not so much pontiff, or the woods. god i hate the woods at meta level.
I was too harsh on TRC. I do enjoy TRC invasions a lot more than Pontiff. I have issues with TRC that are personal and go beyond what I discussed in the video. Most of what I said applies to Pontiff.
@@iamamish i will say this about TRC invasions it seems i get stuck in these invasions were i do nothing but invade host's that are only looking for help to beat the boss. and so go right for the fog wall its been like that for me all night tonight .
@@iamamish It’s been a year now since this video and I moved to PC and I can tell you right now pontiff on pc is far worse then on the ps4 like omg put the Game down for a couple months I got so frustrated
@@iamamish let me just put it this way, when I finally got to pontiff I told myself I would invade at meta level for a bit within 20 minutes I got sent back to the beginning of the game somehow when I invaded someone, rush right back to pontiff took me like an hour. I started invading again within another two hours I had another guy put gestures in my inventory which of course I had to delete that character That way I wouldn’t get banned for having a illegal items in my inventory. I now keep a back up save ready at all times.
I love meta and pontiff, that's how I've acquired most of my experience. But I do invade at other levels too. I tend to get less hackers, and glitch spammers at 65 and 91.
I hate invading at Pontiff. Gankers clear out all the PvE. They often summon their friends as reds to make it a 5 on 1 gank. Also, many gankers have figured out how to align their team so they know where a phantom will invade and will be immediately surrounded. I don’t mind the Ringed City though.
Yeah TRC isn't nearly as toxic but I've definitely invaded when the PVE is all cleared and they're standing around in the open water, and you're screwed without competent backup.
Here's why I invade meta: my character was almost SL120 when I reached the end of the DLCs and I don't want to level it further because then it might be harder to find matches lol Edit: also the enemies in ringed city are really useful to help you in an invasion so that's fun
Amish, I absolutely love your content, I would listen to you just reading me a boring book. I saw your video on playing to win, and read an interesting comment by Lord Kelvin talking about glitches and playing to win. The pontiff meta gank is the only argument I have against that particular thread. As the IQ of the gankers go up, the tactics of the invaders must as well, and recently, theres almost not enough skill in actual game mechanics to be able to beat some of these pontiff ganks. If you are interested in using glitches, this is the place to go for a true challenge. I've only recently been going to pontiff at 125 only because I've gotten pretty bored with most PVP. I do still love my Spears invasions with a 4 man squad, but these are winnable without use of glitches. Occasionally a group will come in and absolutely steamroll me but its not often enough for me to lose interest. I have a build ive been running which is essentially a glass cannon with light roll, but I've kept the defense good enough to be able to survive with Fap glitch, estus cancels, and bow glitch to pop a Wrath of God or fill back up on estus. (Yes, infinite estus is a thing now) I lose more than I win, but damn it feels good when I do win, and thats what its all about, having fun and enjoying the fight. Maybe you could say that makes me a cheater, but the challenges involved with actual execution of these glitches does take alot of practice and skill, and i do enjoy a good chellenge.
Thanks Ryan, and there is a lot here I agree with. You have to be a lot better than the gankers to win, and once the gankers hit a certain level of skill, it's nearly impossible to be that good. So yeah, I understand that justification for using glitches. The problem is that the gankers will use a similar justification for using glitches, and then you're in an even worse spot than you started. Estus cancel means hosts are basically unkillable, and if you are lucky enough to get them low on estus, they'll fap glitch away and use the estus refill. It's such a boring game, it is frustrating to play, so I just stopped playing it. Glitches killed meta invasions for me.
Well I'm planning to restart invading there. I grew a lot as pvper there (when I started i barely even knew what a build was), and now that I can win easily in arena I want to lose. I now get salty easily, but when I was at pontiff I wasn't because it was shaping my character; I know my arena wins won't matter but I want to improve (not only myself) also in areas where the arena is not that useful (crit fishing, backstabbing, hard swaps, all these things are a mistery for me). Who knows maybe I'll give UGSs a try (I couldn't wield one properly even if God, Satan and Gabri were guiding my controller). Sorry for potato English, I know my syntax is bad.
@Jinxed Swashbuckler yes, I put a ton of effort into ds3 pvp in the short amount of time I've been playing that when I lose I fell like an idiot. Unless I know the guy who beated me is really good (a tournament player, a youtuber exc.). Also I often can't practice because I have no friends who play ds3
It depends but I play with my Spear build quite a bit. I have a few different ones, but if you look at "Lore'd Silly" you'll see my primary SL 90 Spear build: soulsplanner.com/users/iamamish/darksouls3
Theres also annoying glitches going on ps4 which can instant kill like the arrows and spells glitches.. it's getting boring to the point i went to invade in ds2 few days ago
*Some* invaders have 10 siegs + blessing. Even then, each sieg heals 250 hp (i think), so even an invader who ran through every sieg/estus/blessing still has less healing than the host. This also ignores the fact that many hosts & phantoms also use siegs/blessings. The advantages hosts have are so legion that anyone that has spent any time engaging in PvP knows this is true and I don't know of any reasonable counter argument. You are welcome to try tho.
When i invade pontif, it's never more than one hour, and always with a specific idea. Like, having just a chaos dagger and no health, the white ring and the hidden spell to look like a phantom, and wait the good moment to get an instant kill backstab. If i miss, i die, usually :D . Ringed city, it's more fun, thanks to the pve, even if the party play well. At 133 on PS4 it's active and a lot of different players. There is just that host who go to the Midir elevator if he going to lose, and wait at the bottom. If you want to go to him, you have to run the ALL level :(
this is kind of a late comment but I agree with u on everything u said, especially the part about most good players turning into gankers and not being able to rely on co-invaders for support because about 90% of them arent really good and they will die fast and u will end up in a 1v3 or 1v4 situation most of the time against well organized gankers that may even be using glitches for extra advantage.
I wish the game had cross save so I could move to PC. I played this game on Xbox and still do occasionally and honestly most area's are super dead except Pontiff and the DLC area's there. You may find the one guy at undead graves or something but when you go back invasion will fail. Plus nearly everyone you find weather you invade or get invaded is pretty much a super tryhard because we're all that's left. Agree that I love the organic invasions. So fun.
Would you say pivot backstabs on ultra gs' like the Zweihander or Lothric knight ugs is more reliable and safe to pull off as opposed to a rolling backstab?
I think either is OK, but more experienced players will not spam R1 and will move away if they see you rolling for their back, but you can sometimes surprise them with a pivot.
Nice video, by the way do you stream at all? Can't seem to find a link to your Twitch. Also, it'd be interesting to hear your opinions on whether the epidemic changed the community in any way, because the player numbers basically increased by 50% overnight and everywhere seems to be very active.
My Twitch is iamamishTV, but I'm not very active. There are definitely more people playing (esp on PC) and my channel activity is up by about 50% as well.
I would rather invade in the forest in dark souls 1 atleast I have fun there then Pontiff so many toxic people, overleveled phantoms and bow glitchers that that is not fun for me. Great video already been subbed ages ago but you make a good point!!
I havent hardly touched my xbox at all in nearly 2 months, let alone Dark Souls 3 in nigh on a year. What level ranges and weapon upgrades could I expect the most Active invasions at in this point in the games lifecycle do you reckon? If I were to guess I'd say possibly level 55-60 weapon upgrade +6. How accurate is that in your experience? Asking for me :)
I just like to invade casuals with whatever build I want lol. You can't do that at meta pontiff, usually. In fact, I don't even watch pontiff invasions, unless it's a content creator I really enjoy.
Yes glitching is on both platforms, but out-right cheating is pretty much limited to PC (with some exceptions on PS4; sometimes people have infinite health, or infinite stamina, or both)
I have, but I'm honestly not the right person to make that video. Somebody like Silly would do that better, and in fact I think he did (though as I recall the video was somewhat sarcastic, and not as informative).
iamamish Thanks for the advice. :) funny enough I was having trouble fighting ganks yesterday but today I beat three separate ganks quite well. Weird how this game works. maybe it all clicked or something
I only recently started my META SL invasions on PS4: I honestly don't mind a lot of the ones I've encountered, with some exceptions: - I actually really dislike META level fight clubs: it's like the Arena, where you only see the same builds over and over, but worse, because there's the threat of a bunch of other randoms that are super unpredictable. - I really don't care for Ringed City Invasions: I've tried them, but I just don't like them as much as Pontiff invasions. I think a big part of why I enjoy Pontiff invasions, is that while I'm not a great solo invader, I actually am a pretty decent co-invader, and the way that Pontiff invasions work, it just really fits my skill set. It's one of the biggest reasons why I don't like invading in Farron: it has a lot of the same "parts" as META, but it's just so much more cancerous. I stick around long enough to get the Wolf Ring, since I run poise heavy builds usually, then I'm out.
I agree comp,etely on your opinion on defeats: i too hate losing against cheap tactics, gonkers and ultra-meta builds, no fun in that; on the contrary if the adversary is skilled and their build is unique i compliment them, as i can only learn from them. That said, i'm more of a fight club/duel guy myself, i rarely invade, preferring to be summoned
I totally understand your and Silly's position on this. I can't help but feel like I got into this game at the worst possible point in its life cycle. I started playing in the summer of 2019, got into dueling (actually inspired by your gittin' gud series and spear invasions) around the fall, and only really started trying to invade recently in the last few months, something put on hold by my terrible internet connection. The game is tired now. The people playing it are also tired, and I know a few people who have sworn off DS3 altogether due to the prevalence of glitches, exploits, and all-out cheats, at any level. The no downscale summon, gatling bow, and force dropping gestures all come to mind. It's not a good time to LRN2INVADE. I just have to hope I can get comfortable with invading before the playerbase moves on entirely to greener pastures.
I came to similar conclusions a long time ago. On paper a 3v3 is more favorable than a 2v4 but time and time again my co-invaders at Gank City/Forest are a hindrance or a direct obstacle while the average random co-invader elsewhere is just a disappointment at worst. Ultimately I mostly grew tired of it because ganks stopped pressing forward and the moment you stop pressing forward a co-invader dies which feeds them all an estus. Another more subtle reason though was that I felt annoyed of seeing the same exact weapon/build/strat in almost every invasion because Gank City lost the idea of originality and variety a long time ago.
I assume this is the bow glitch? I think these things are way too overpowered, even though it is possible to use them in ways that aren't as OP - it really depends on the spell/miracle you are casting, and what it appears you are casting.
well said amish. i invade religiously and dont ever REO or red sign at pontiff. the ganks are no fun to fight, cheese/glitch, or just waste your time. by far 100% more fun to encounter random other players throughout the world. these encounters show you people from all builds, in diverse level design, with complexity and and also a more organic fight.
I host pontiff and we wait till it's a 3v3 situation we dont just storm and 3v1 everyone that invades, I love the 3v3 fights not necessarily ganking, but helping each other out through out the fight, and the last guy we let live till 2 more invade, I feel this more fun for me and invaders
I ran into a LOT of cheaters in the duel area at sl135. Mostly ∞ health/s/poise but you get game crashing curse crossbow players now and again. Their Steam almost always says they are from China or Russia with a few Americans.
i think the whole thing with gankers is a lot of people want to pvp with their friends but they really can't unless they wanna do controlled arena matches. which isn't that fun. I hope Elden ring finds a place for 2 people who want to invade together or w/e.
Thanks! If you're just starting out, I recommend around SL 55/+6, and try out central irithyll. It's always active and you'll learn the ropes there. You can also go a bit higher to around 70/+7 and invade Lothric Castle. Good luck!
how i see invasions starter lvls max lvl 15 weapon +1----> extra hard, a lot of over leveled phantoms, you can cheese them with the dark hand and that you can get it at a really low level 20 to 100 weapon max +8-----> players start to get comfortable with the game, attempt to advance on their own, and you get easy invasions most of the time, gank squads are less common 110 and weapon +10 and above ----> just ganksquads, organized teams of phantoms, solo host who live beside the bonfire. if you wanna invade and win most of the time, invade below meta levels, if you want a challenge, invade at sl 120
Good video as always man I haven’t invaded at pontiff much here in last few months But I always hosted at pontiff for a long time I was doing that just because I could get a lot more fighting in and 85% of the time it was just me and my brother and we would turn way of blew on on occasion especially when the invaders was running and shooting bows at us from a distance but I always enjoyed being out numbered. And it would be a 3v2 for the better part of 2 hours. But I always done it because it was just fun to meet you just to constantly be fighting that when I was invading their eye very seldomly would run into a post using the fap glitch other than maybe just to make space and heal. Anymore all I see glitch wise is people using the Estus cancel which in my opinion is one of the worst ones order using the move set swap glitch. But as invader there at pontiff I get why invaders get frustrated cause I sure did. Lol. But anyway I always enjoy your content. Man. And I love the discussion. Peace out
Interestingly enough, your comments about invaders being at a disadvantage because the game assumes certain things about the host made me wonder if DS2 didn't have the right idea letting you summon and be invaded after the area boss is dead? Some sort of system to inform invaders of what they're invading might be required for that to work, idk. I really hope FROMSOFT takes a more active approach to maintaining the online aspect of future games
I'm going to defend the unpopular opinion that invasions with dead bosses are actually a huge mistake. If the boss is dead, how are you supposed to get rid of the invader? Sure, if he fights you straight up, it's no problem, but if he's salty and goes and hides somewhere, what do you do? You can't go through the boss fog (though you could enable it). I think this is one of the reasons invasions had timers in DS 2. It would also be frustrating if you're trying to invade. Bloodborne compromised by making it an inherent part of invading - by invading, you are explicitly opening yourself to invasion. I think that's a good approach.
@@iamamish Definitely not my most well thought out idea ahaha. I'm just trying to gather opinions on what could be done to improve the PVP in these games, and extend the games online shelf life
@@iamamish The cynicism of Souls fans warms my undead heart, genuinely. Sometimes it feels like they made a game so good that its flaws just became glaringly obvious. Dammit, I consider the PVP mechanics to be revolutionary and I need more of iy
I know man, I only ever point up but if you need to get them off your back obscuring ring works wonders. And when the gank squad almost kills them you run in and get the last hit for a spicy point down
Just to be clear too, neither I nor Silly knew the other was working on a video like this; we just happened to come to the same conclusion around the same time and made independent videos about it. Check out Silly's video here: ua-cam.com/video/eDbanJ0ouwY/v-deo.html
'my first main reason for avoiding meta pontiff is that I play on pc' 😂😂😂 enough said, great vid man.
I’ve never gotten the mentality behind “the hardest fights are at Meta”. Honestly the hardest fought invasions are woods at sl30-40 against tricked out, optimized sl50-60 ganks where (unless you’re using DSA) a wet noodle would do more damage than your weapon
I agree. Plus, you get a lot of awful/non-twink co-invaders. You literally can't win if you've got your own team mates hitting you or feeding estus. Invasions in the woods are cancer.
Huh, I'm going to have to try invading there to see what you're talking about. I'm normally at meta, and the only invasions I see at SL30-40 are the ones that happen to me as I run through the game. I really hope it doesn't turn out like you're saying, that woul really, really suck lol.
@@Eric_The_Cleric There's a bit of a mix in the woods, you get twinks hosting improptu fight clubs, newbies, regular ganks then the absolute tryhard gank squads with OL phantoms which, unsurprisingly enough, are fucking cancer.
Woods gankers are some of the most toxic around
Partly why I like the woods is that the wet noodle aspect means I can survive a bit better, but as Amish has commented - that also lets you get away with mistakes that you might be drilling into your muscle memory
I avoid because there's so many toxic laggy people and overleveled noobs using bow glitches
@Zero Two can you teach me the effects glitch?😂
Wow, they really were similar :)
At the end of the day fun is paramount. Sure, the people you invade at meta post-pontiff do tend to be better on average than the people you invade everywhere else in the game, and fighting good players is the best way to improve, but the main draw of improvement, for me at least, is that it's fun to get better. But if the process is often not fun besides the actual improvement itself, then it probably just isn't worth it to get better through that process overall, and it's better to find a different way to improve where the process is fun.
Mr. Sillydog amen!
"Invade at meta," to me, is a relic of the DaS1 (and maybe Demon's, didn't play) era when invasions doubled as a more reliable way to find duels than using soapstones (because peer-to-peer limits on sign visibility). Unless you're still at the point where people are doing NG+ runs in large numbers, like shortly after a game's release, very few people you invade at meta level are actually playing through the level with intent to beat it. But invasions are designed with the idea that the host IS trying to beat the level, and moreso that as the games progressed and Fromsoft refined the design implementation of the multiplayer.
So I, too, stopped focusing on meta-level invading after DaS2 (either max SM bracket or min. SM for SL 150), and I actually never made a single meta-level character in DaS3 that was intended as an invader. Not only has it resulted in encountering fewer ganks and been more fun for me, but I don't wind up with beloved, but stranded, characters once the population well and truly moves on (e.g. my 120 Bloodborne character with ~400 hours on him can only really find duels now; my BL 43 and BL 75 can get near constant invasions even 5 years after launch).
I do respect the people who can beat such dire odds, but I've little interest in subjecting myself to them. Esp. when a lot of the "tech" starts being abuse of glitches that allow one shots or complete negation of counterplay (e.g. the DS3 glitches like FaP Ring and bow, as opposed to the DS1 glitches that "balanced" the game out like toggle-escape, or the DS2 ones that made the game less clunky and still had counterplay like quick-attack/quick-roll).
Seconded on the problem of player actions clashing with design principles! While we can always deal with these problems on a personal level (be it through glitching or just BC out of the world), it's good to reflect on root causes.
This is such a fresh perspective.
Completely agree. I didn't invade much in earlier games, so cannot comment on that, but organic invasions are so much more fun to me than dealing with optimized ganks at meta.
Honestly I’ve just never liked invading Pontiff or the Woods. I have a few of my own personal reasons as well. I prefer to play in other areas because I like to invade on my own. That’s what I call true invading. Plus it seems like more times then not there’s this thing that happens where “strays” follow you home in your inbox & are salty for petty reasons, then they just take it really far with the whole grudge thing. By the way Amish I’ve been watching a lot of your videos the past few days & I like your view points on a lot of topics. They’re similar to my own
Thanks man, you must have some really good viewpoints then :P
Another reason you'll find fewer good reds at meta levels/locations is that a lot of decent to good players also avoid that. I like having a variety of level ranges, but I don't even have any builds past SL 90 anymore, and most are in 45-75.
Playing at the so-called meta is no longer meta.
great points dude! I prefer to avoid those spots also as they annoy me at this point.
"Success at Pontiff requires you to play in a way I don't enjoy." Amen brother Amen
I’ve been really struggling with these problems. It’s not been easy trying to learn to invade in ds3 in 2020
it'll be a very painful road, but after 200 hours, I can reliably take down 3 man ganks if they get too coplacent, my punish game has gotten better as well with backstabs. It'll just take a lot of dedication and pain.
Keep pushing fellow invader! You will succeed!
@@MsDestroyer900 tips? I also have 250 hours but still suck😅
@@w1nr322 well, im now at 800 hours lol.
Get better at spacing. Learning to put yourself in a position where you can punish them but they can't punish you is the most important part of this game. And get a feel for psychology. For example. When you're low, people will tend to desperately r1 you to death, use this to your advantage because people get so caught up in trying to kill you they make many mistakes themselves, next thing they know, they've been parried or back stabbed. The lower you are the more desperate they become.
@@MsDestroyer900 thanks man
SL90 is where it's at. I've been doing a lot of PvP at this level recently and I'm having a blast. You can basically finish your build, you get to invade a variety of great areas, and there's plenty of hosts/phantoms playing through the game as intended.
Personally, I don't think I'll ever do meta invasions. Constantly enountering organised ganks from across the other side of the world isn't my idea of fun. Defeating 3 average players at SL90 with high latency is hard enough for me.
Yeah 90 is like the perfect compromise to me. I really like SL 90 invasions.
Just got lvl90 and gotta agree.
You can do alot of PvP's, as well as Invading or help people and have alot of fun.
I can't get over how much I enjoy your honest, humble, no nonsense approach to each point you bring up. I just found you today, and I'm very glad I did. Thought provoking and informative.
Wow, thank you! I'm glad you're enjoying it!
I feel like you really should have mentioned just how glitch heavy everything has gotten as well. Gankers at pontiff not only estus cancel and fap spam, but they also constantly top off their estus with bow/parting flame. I miss organically surviving for 30 minutes on skill and good decision making just skirting around the edges of battles wearing people down. Why do that when the gank is at full estus and will fap glitch away to top off estus/resummon if I start to gain a health advantage?
Savescummed siegs and blessings are also a necessity and I hate it.
I thought I did - maybe it got cut. Definitely one of the main reasons I avoid Pontiff.
@Jinxed Swashbuckler I agree with everything except DS3 being more broken than DS1. DS1 imposed levels of brokenness not yet reached by other games. DS2 is the "best" out of the bunch in that regard, that's for sure.
I always find it funny that people say that siegs balance out pvp in DS3 when they are effectively upgraded life gems from DS2.
You know the thing people always complain about in DS2.
@@Warcrafter4 I feel like the reason for that might be that you can only have 10 Siegs, compared to 99 of each type of lifegem in ds2.
@@Wuuff Which unless your the host you can't use as life gems are disabled for both invaders and phantoms when both are present in the world in DS2.
The ganking mechanic and the lag tool killed invasions for me.
I'm OK with ganking, but when it was inexperienced players looking to compensate for their inexperience. When ganks are run by good players, they have too many advantages and it is not fun.
Keep your head up skeleton, I will be there for you at meta pontiff, whoever you are.
Not on pc :/
I agree with you amish, that’s why I don’t invade meta level pontiff either. And you know, Ringed City is getting like this as well. Good video as always, took inspiration from you and dangitjm for my recent videos!
Thanks man, I looked through some of your videos and they look good! Looking forward to watching more.
iamamish I’m honored amish, I hope you continue to like what you see:)
Don't forget estus glitch. That's probably by far the most sweaty glitch I've ever seen, and the fact that it's so easy to perform makes it even worse
Yes I wish it were not a thing.
Just soemthing off topic real quick:
I think it's so cool to see that you have a 200 likes to 5 dislikes ratio.
Really shows how much we love you, happy easter
Thanks! Funny, enough, 4 of those dislikes always come within about an hour of the video going up, so I'm pretty sure there are a handful of people who are subscribed only to leave dislikes on my videos.
@@iamamish I really think you should maybe open up a discord soon, it's a great way to stay in contact with your fans/community
@@MyLungsStillBurn i'd really like to but I just don't have the time to administer it. I wish I did, because I would like to create one.
@@iamamish that's a shame, well, should you decide to create one, you dont have to administer it all yourself, for example, you could make two or three people you trust admin, but you probably know that already
That thumbnail is all the explanation you need.
This was weirdly validating, thanks Amish. I was invading all day at 60+7 today and having an absolute blast haunting the dungeon and Lothric castle, and then moved to meta and realized I was having a lot less fun. Not just that the ganks were harder, though they usually were; it was that they were either optimized to the point of absurdity or passive to such an extent that it made me fall asleep at the wheel. On my first invasion in TRC, I spawned as the projectile-heavy gank killed the last of the Haralds, but instead of fighting the 3v1 with no PvE left, the gank literally just turned tail and ran all the way from the streets to the inner wall bonfire, for maximum campiness advantage. At that point I just sat my character down and turned on Netflix and hung out for an hour because I felt wasting their time and catching up on my shows was the only way I could get any fun out of that situation. The transition to meta from mid-level felt like night and day. You get passivity at mid level, but at least folks are pressured to progress, and the overleveleds are more glass cannon-y so they die quick to smart plays (or a buffed LKGS).
These days low level can also wear on me, but the sweet spot of 60-90 has been really nice. I even get invasions in some of the coolest, less common areas like Snowy Mountain Pass - it’s such a treat, honestly. The variety makes the game so fun.
That’s why I got back to DSR “insert shrug gesture”
That game died so quickly for me on PC. I actually bought a PS4 copy and never took it out of the cellophane because the game was so dead.
“Everyone playing this knows what they’re doing”
Me getting into this game and invasions like a month ago
“Fuck my life”
Yeah I imagine 2021 is a rude awakening
haha, same here buddy. I've beaten every souls game multiple times, but never really PvP'd until the Demon's Souls Remake got me into it. I've gotten pretty good at that, so have been giving DS3's PvP a shot. My dueling record is getting close to 50-50, but in the chaotic Aldrich fights, I'm lucky if I escape without death like 5% of the time lol
the runners should play some mario kart
Since Sillydog’s video I’ve been mostly taking a break from meta pontiff (though not ringed city) and trying out some different levels more frequently to see what I can extract from them. I think I got into a mental hole with feeling like I wasn’t good enough at the game to criticize meta pontiff or avoid it without it just being an ego shield. I don’t want to wind up in a position where I’m just avoiding challenging invasions, but I have to say that not reloading my save on a daily basis has been a huge quality of life improvement. Not dealing with that or getting the last hit on a host and finding out they have nodead on or getting shadowrealmed if you land a riposte is... much more enjoyable in all honesty.
Different soul levels offer different opportunities. You can work on higher risk skills or ones you don’t have consistently yet (for me it’s reversing backstabs when someone rolls into me atm) at lower SL’s where punishment isn’t as severe. You can still find very skilled hosts and ganks if you choose where you invade (SL 90 ringed/archives, for instance). The game still has a lot to offer, and unlike meta pontiff, once you see one gank you haven’t seen them all.
But I think that there being a discussion about meta pontiff means it holds it’s own place in that variety the game has to offer. I’m not off meta pontiff for good I don’t think, though I totally understand why many people will be, but for now I’m going to try and appreciate the variety the game has to offer a little bit more.
Amen -- like sillydog said here in the comments, we've gotta respect our own desire to enjoy the game!
I think the worse experience in pvp i got was when i was fighting with phantom u kno regular 1v1 and when host saw that his phantom is near to death i got backstabbed by host :/
4:57 mom Look I’m famous
GG! That was fun, I got lucky and just barely caught you with that first charged r2, and if I'd have whiffed that, the fight would have gone quite differently
Invasions at meta have always been in a weird spot with the way an invaders HP caps at 1300 in DS3. Its almost like Fromsoft never really intended for you to be invading Timmy and his 3 phantoms at SL120 where you can die in 3 hits...
But thats the beauty of Souls, those who want to play at meta can, and those of us that like to actually have fun can play at SL44 or 90 :P
Exactly. And as I mentioned, this was definitely NOT intended as a critique of people who enjoy that experience - have at. It was an answer to the many questions I get - "hey Amish why don't you invade meta?"
I'm still completely green at this game I just picked it up a month ago. I dont shy away from getting invaded though I always run around embered. 99% of the time I get my ass handed to me but sometimes I'll get a clutch win. I avoid invading others cause most of the time its 1v4. Thanks for taking the time to keep making DS3 videos.
Cato Hostilius glad to hear you actually fight. That’s how you get better. So many people disconnect or simply play offline. You get better by fighting and dying. Eventually, you’ll feel better actively invading.
@@del1000005 Yessir I agree 100%. You cant get better without practice. The gank squad always gets me though.
Cato Hostilius gank squads get almost everybody lol. When it’s 3 or 4 on 1 with no PvE left, you generally lose (except for the best of the best). When you get better though, you learn to handle people 2 on 1. When you win the 3 or 4 on 1 matches, you feel like a god lol. Keep playing!
@@del1000005 sooner or later that day will come when I hold my ground against a gank lol. I appreciate your replies and hope you stay safe during this crazy pandemic.
Cato Hostilius Wholesome thread, really nice to see new players get into PvP, and especially with this positive attitude
I've been invading at sl44 (Central Irithyll/Cathedral/Catacombs/sometimes the swamp) for many months now, and sometimes running Gank City at sl55. Both feel waaaay more fun and organic than anything approaching meta.
Organized ganks aside, the damage-to-HP ratio alone makes lower level a lot more fun for me. There is more room for error, and pressure is more important to chip down health. When I go back to the 'three hit kills' at meta (and one mistake = blender instakill), it just seems boring and frustrating by comparison.
Great commentary man. I don't much a meta either. Also I prefer the more organic invasions like you. Plus I'm doing cosplays that in most cases wouldn't stand a chance in organizined gank situations.
Question: Do you think next souls like games (including ER) should have friendly fire turned on for co-opers? it could make invasions more interesting and less brain dead blender,some summons could troll the hosts with it but fromsoftware could implement a reputation system to know whant kind of people you'd summon. Or maybe have friendly fire turn on only when someone invades. Some invaders would see it as ez mode but it could actually make hosts improve to adapt
An idea I like more is friendly stagger (but I think it's unlikely that we'll see either).
Yea i like the idea more too, but when i thought about both concepts they might be tricky, imagine someone, say an invader get a parry and the host would hit the phantom to get him out of riposte frames, people would also run offhand low damage weapons to hit their friends and save them from a true combo or stuff like that
It truly is sad to say after playing this game for years, I am closing the books here really soon on it as far as me playing. I have always been an invader at heart, never really cared much for the try hard duels. A really good friend of mine taught me a bunch of important lessons that apply to pvp/invasions. Your perspective here is right on par with the way I think. I also agree with QY as to their favorite range being SL90. I have found that SL90 also sits better with me as well. I also like the SL60 range as I have a none optimized dark build going on there as well, but I have a lot of fun with it. Here recently meta Pontiff invasions has turned into absolute craziness. Last invasion I did there, I was caught right in the back (only Aldrich there go figure) with the sacred flame bow glitch. GG I guess smh. So us as invaders try to find another range to get our gank stomping in, then oh you got the summon glitch to deal with now. Last time I invaded on my 60+6, host summons his buddy red that comes out of nowhere and starts fighting me. I knew it was their buddy because I literally saw the summoning dark spirit message, then no scale down icon on that red. It has honestly became cancer invasions in general on the PS4, hence why I believe it is time to throw in the towel after so many years of playing.
Don't lie to yourself, you'll come back. They always do.
@@MsDestroyer900 haven't played since other than a few duels with friends and that is about it.
@@shtshw eh, I thought I was done a few years ago too, this game is pretty on off for me as well, but overall I guess I'm a masochist cause I always come back even though I think I'm done with the game.
But ultimately it's you who chooses weather or not that's the case for you.
@@MsDestroyer900 I wish it wasn't so because tbh almost all newage games suck IMHO. You try to find a range where you have the least amount of stupid (I call glitches stupid) to deal with, and the exploits have expanded the meta so much that it is nearly unplayable from an invasion perspective. I would honestly just rather call it quits on being a serious invader because the playstyle I use is a thing of the past no ifs ands or buts about it sadly.
@@shtshw I guess that is kinda sad. Although really hate the bow glitch (It's an absolute crutch and has nearly 0 counterplay) I guess I can see how some people wouldn't wanna play hardcore invasions the same way I do. But imo I find disrespecting password phantoms 10x more satifying than getting ganked to death. at least when I get ganked to death, I can safely say in my heart that they only won because it was a ridiculous 4v1 and many people woulnt have survived odds like that, but oh boy when you do beat a 4v1 It feels so much better than beating a hard boss in this game (a feeling i havent felt in a while as well).
If you like pve however, with souls-like elements. You should play monster hunter world. I've been playing since the 2nd game in the series and I can honestly say the game has great boss mechanics and is also a fun game for friends. It's gank the boss the game tbh. And this recent game is most likely to be the most acessible for beginners since you play this game with dual stick, instead of the older games where you can only really play with one.
I’ve been avoiding meta pontiff since 2019. It was just getting way too frustrated for me (mostly due to the glitches and bad co-invaders) I’ll do mid-level pontiff but that’s it. (Then again I might change my point of view in a few hours)
I prefer other areas for the better level design, primarily a more linear design instead of pontiffs ring around the Rosie set up. Arch dragon peak, grand archives and ariandel are pretty nice.
I will do pontiff/trc but I don't lurk for long as it is frustrating. Great vid. Keep it up
Me too - I'll jump in for a stream or something but I'm always happy to leave.
Good video man! Playing at Gank City is like attaining your Masters in Invasions. I recently spent two full weekends there with my cleric build. I didn't win many matches and got wiped on every gank. But! I learnt so much on cast speed, and spacing. That might sound like trivial but being a cleric and casting spells to counter is not the easiest thing ever.
As a moderately skilled player, I also share the same sentiments as you do.
Unfortunately I play exclusively on Ps4 and Pontif meta is the only place that has to most activity.
Try Lothric Castle, on PS4 you'll often find young sunbros trying to get those sunmedals. Funtimes.
Crux Woods can have a few diamond in the rough hosts if you enjoy social fight clubs or rainbow fights with all colors. I find SL30/60/120 on ps4 (people trying for wolfblood grass)
I also find Central Irrithyl is quite busy for pvp, without as many ganks or havel monsters as pontiff. Some are like minded PvPers tired of Havel Ganks-and some are newer players trying to get past.
Really? I never knew about those two places.
Thanks for letting me know guys.
I’m definitely in the invader-as-obstacle camp. Duels are mostly boring to me. I love the levels and enjoy the added variety for where fights can break out. It’s not that I want to stack the deck in my favor with npcs, it’s that I enjoy being on the receiving end of an invasion and wondering what corner the invader is gonna pop out of. That feeling of fear and anxiety when you spot a red coming down some stairs and you rush to finish the mobs you’ve already engaged is so unique to Souls. I love that mechanically it’s a counter to coop. Sure, you can gang up with friends to circle jerk the ai, but you’re gonna have real players showing up to bring the difficulty back.
I absolutely love the ramparts of Pontiff leading up to Anor Londo. I’ve made so many great memories of epic clashes on narrow walkways with archers launching ballistic missiles and the terror of seeing another invader connection. In the era of walkthroughs and wikis, it’s nice to know that every play through isn’t just going to hit the same beats.
Organized ganks sitting around the bonfire waiting to mock duel and then jump in as soon as their guy is losing is just lame. It’s fun watching a pro take on an optimized straight sword, ugs, soul spear combo but I just don’t have the patience for it. I also don’t have the patience or will to save scum a million seigbraus and divine blessings. I know it isn’t that hard, but it just feels dirty. I want the challenge of knowing we both have relatively equal and sparse resources and 14 estus, 10 brews and 2 blessings doesn’t fit my definition of sparse. It extends the fights to a point that I just get bored and make mistakes so I can move on to start over fresh.
I feel you bud. Some of my favorite invasions are at max so level where you can just constantly change cosplays. But the hardcore organized ganks at pontiff will just demoralize me eventually.
The thing that always ground my gears more than anything was the connections. I'm trying to train and learn and get hit via phantom range on some player who is well out side of visual range for any weapon he holds. Made working on spacing and reaction feel impossible.
Awesome vid Iamamish, I heard about your channel from co-invading with G9 on PS4, good stuff! TL;DR: Playing Pontiff meta on PC. Too many cheaters.
Two days ago there were 3-4 gankers all with ringed paired greatswords. I was trying to use a bow. . .
Lv 60+6 is fun in the dungeons, irythll and maybe catacombs. I have done lots of "meta" invasions. In fact I ran out of space in my box for pale tongues. This video is spot on. (Except for trashing on favor toggling, sometimes even a poise turn and burn is too risky for 3 phantoms layering shockwave crucifix running attacks and cbvs at 120). Bow glitch is reserved exclusively for gankers who glitch past the down scaling. I had to put down a sl515 with my level 60 a few days ago and he was able to tank 10 great arrows. The guy did 800 to me with curved sword running attacks and would have killed in one stunlock.
favor toggling will always be a bigger friend to gank squads than it is to invaders. I get the utility of it, but I've had my fill of chasing hosts who use it as a 'get out of jail free' card during invasions.
Not 10 minutes ago at SL 90 I ran into somebody with full Havel's, Havel's greatshield, DSGA 1h, and was medium rolling and doing crazy amounts of damage. He had no downscaling icon, so was most likely abusing the glitch. Really frustrating.
I'm bad, but I finished the Watchdogs at 25 +2, Aldrich Faithful and Warriors of Sunlight at 45 +6. Working on Shackles now. Been invading for a couple months
Great video explaining it amish, all these points are 100% true and the fact the 90% of my coinvaders at meta pontiff are terrible. I would much rather solo host sometimes than invade cause it's frustrating when i got a 3v3 and my two coinvaders die within seconds. Then i end up dying to a 3v1 and these people are definitly skilled
I feel like meta pontiff these days either attracts supremely skilled invaders, or noobs; there is almost no in between.
@@iamamish This is 100% true. I think what frustrates me the most is that when i host, i get the good players invading me, versus when i invade, i get the noobs
Oh hey I recognize that host at 0:25. They do a lot of twinked out woods hosting.
I understand man, furthermore, at meta level the host is way stronger than any other level cuz often the host is a duelist who know the pvp, the meta weapon, glitch, and generally who to play against every opponent
I love getting invaded using dried fingers at the gank city at sl80. The way the game's balanced makes it feel really good when you are outnumbered by random invaders. You have more hp and twice the heals, while they could have been unprepared, dragged out of their world by aldritch faithfuls covenant to fight you, especially at sl80. Still, they have the numbers and the mobs on their side to fight you back, which creates some really fun encounters.
I agree with you. My only issue is that when you're outnumbered, your strategic options really don't amount to much - you're looking at either turn & burns, relying on the invaders to hit each other, or running away.
Not so much on invasions but on red sign summon fighting, I still get plenty of noobs at Pontiff. But yeah 90% of my invasions there are people just waiting to gank. But then again, the reason these areas are so popular to invade is that you're almost gaurenteed to get Aldrich's, Watch Dogs, or Spears to help you.
I usually only invade Pontiff Meta & Max. I like fighting against finely tuned ganks. The level depends on my mood, because they are so sweaty. As you go up in SL and stat investment starts to become not a thing anymore, and real builds disappear over the horizon, for some reason I like that chaos.
Anyone can be good a dark souls, it just depends on how many advantages you are willing to stack in your favor.
More than anything, I relate to your point on whether the host and phantoms engage with the level: I strongly believe that PvP is at its best when your co-invader is the level and its mobs, and at its worst when either the party won't try to complete their goal or has already cleared the level and won't progress. I think we, your viewers and invaders ourselves, understand the asymmetry baked into DS3's balance, but the community at large doesn't (hence the demand for things like arenas).
To be clear, any of these problems can be solved at the personal level through equally passive play, indulgence in glitches and cheats, or the good old black crystal, but their prevalence speaks to a deeper problem. I may be preaching to the choir, but if I could magically cause every player to want to play the level, I think the community would be far healthier than if I removed every glitch we know of or guaranteed skilled coinvaders. Yet, in spite of the principles that FROM has based their PvP on, I think they've done a poor job of explaining how and why they do so.
A really good example is how you deal with Creighton in Sirris' questline, where your goal as "hosts" is to kill the invader within one very safe zone -- this is unrealistic! Or how NPC dark spirits drop key loot that can't be found any other way. New players are not only given a material incentive to kill dark spirits, but shown that's a goal unto itself; these principles are not transferable to online play, where a host (let alone their white/gold phantoms!) scarcely earns anything from killing reds.
I can only hope that going forward into Elden RIng and beyond, FROM is more careful about what they teach players, and more open with what they seem to believe the goals of online play really are.
this is why we need a wombo combo or strong 1HKO builds.
On ps4 its sl120 or around/+. No questions. Theres no players except at invasion areas like ringed city or pontiff, trying to get a darkmoon blade on a character is practically impossible as well.
For a long time now I play DS very rarely and don't care about improving, winning and all of that stuff. However, when I occasionally invade, I 100% agree with you that it's much more fun to invade people in their "natural habitat". Like when host with phantom(s) clear the level or just pretending that they do that :) In any location basically (except gank locations obviously).
And as you said it's not because they are "casuls" and I'm a big boy. Just it's more natural, more fun for both parties I guess, well for me for sure XD, and overall it's just completely different experience than tryharding at meta. Btw I'm also not saying that meta is bad, just it's ganks all over the shop.
That's why "natural" invasions on any level are a much more better way to enjoy the game.
I left for awhile and am just getting back into it, any high activity spots other than meta to try out?
Depends on the platform. On PC, lots of areas are really active, but on PS4, it's harder to find activity.
@@iamamish PC for me so that sounds nice. Honestly kinda glad to get a change of scenery following years of post pontiff
@@Joseph-jn1xb yeah areas that are typically active are the woods (SL 20 - 50), central irithyll (SL 45 - 60), Archives (SL 65 - 90), Dragonkin Mausoleum (SL 60 - 90), and Lothric Castle (SL 60 - 90).
If you're looking for a new build I'd try SL 70 - 80 and see how that goes. Good luck!
I play on the ps4 and i still find ringed city (invasion city) Meta level a lot of fun, not so much pontiff, or the woods. god i hate the woods at meta level.
I was too harsh on TRC. I do enjoy TRC invasions a lot more than Pontiff. I have issues with TRC that are personal and go beyond what I discussed in the video. Most of what I said applies to Pontiff.
@@iamamish i will say this about TRC invasions it seems i get stuck in these invasions were i do nothing but invade host's that are only looking for help to beat the boss. and so go right for the fog wall its been like that for me all night tonight .
@@iamamish It’s been a year now since this video and I moved to PC and I can tell you right now pontiff on pc is far worse then on the ps4 like omg put the Game down for a couple months I got so frustrated
@@andrewgardner58 I watch ppl stream meta pontiff invasions on pc and have no idea how they put up with it
@@iamamish let me just put it this way, when I finally got to pontiff I told myself I would invade at meta level for a bit within 20 minutes I got sent back to the beginning of the game somehow when I invaded someone, rush right back to pontiff took me like an hour. I started invading again within another two hours I had another guy put gestures in my inventory which of course I had to delete that character That way I wouldn’t get banned for having a illegal items in my inventory. I now keep a back up save ready at all times.
I love meta and pontiff, that's how I've acquired most of my experience. But I do invade at other levels too. I tend to get less hackers, and glitch spammers at 65 and 91.
I hate invading at Pontiff. Gankers clear out all the PvE. They often summon their friends as reds to make it a 5 on 1 gank. Also, many gankers have figured out how to align their team so they know where a phantom will invade and will be immediately surrounded. I don’t mind the Ringed City though.
Yeah TRC isn't nearly as toxic but I've definitely invaded when the PVE is all cleared and they're standing around in the open water, and you're screwed without competent backup.
What a kill at 4:45 😉
It is much stressless to invade other areas than pontiff at any sl lvl thats what i personally feel
Ggs bro
Here's why I invade meta: my character was almost SL120 when I reached the end of the DLCs and I don't want to level it further because then it might be harder to find matches lol
Edit: also the enemies in ringed city are really useful to help you in an invasion so that's fun
Amish, I absolutely love your content, I would listen to you just reading me a boring book. I saw your video on playing to win, and read an interesting comment by Lord Kelvin talking about glitches and playing to win. The pontiff meta gank is the only argument I have against that particular thread. As the IQ of the gankers go up, the tactics of the invaders must as well, and recently, theres almost not enough skill in actual game mechanics to be able to beat some of these pontiff ganks. If you are interested in using glitches, this is the place to go for a true challenge. I've only recently been going to pontiff at 125 only because I've gotten pretty bored with most PVP. I do still love my Spears invasions with a 4 man squad, but these are winnable without use of glitches. Occasionally a group will come in and absolutely steamroll me but its not often enough for me to lose interest. I have a build ive been running which is essentially a glass cannon with light roll, but I've kept the defense good enough to be able to survive with Fap glitch, estus cancels, and bow glitch to pop a Wrath of God or fill back up on estus. (Yes, infinite estus is a thing now) I lose more than I win, but damn it feels good when I do win, and thats what its all about, having fun and enjoying the fight. Maybe you could say that makes me a cheater, but the challenges involved with actual execution of these glitches does take alot of practice and skill, and i do enjoy a good chellenge.
Thanks Ryan, and there is a lot here I agree with. You have to be a lot better than the gankers to win, and once the gankers hit a certain level of skill, it's nearly impossible to be that good.
So yeah, I understand that justification for using glitches. The problem is that the gankers will use a similar justification for using glitches, and then you're in an even worse spot than you started. Estus cancel means hosts are basically unkillable, and if you are lucky enough to get them low on estus, they'll fap glitch away and use the estus refill.
It's such a boring game, it is frustrating to play, so I just stopped playing it. Glitches killed meta invasions for me.
Well I'm planning to restart invading there. I grew a lot as pvper there (when I started i barely even knew what a build was), and now that I can win easily in arena I want to lose. I now get salty easily, but when I was at pontiff I wasn't because it was shaping my character; I know my arena wins won't matter but I want to improve (not only myself) also in areas where the arena is not that useful (crit fishing, backstabbing, hard swaps, all these things are a mistery for me). Who knows maybe I'll give UGSs a try (I couldn't wield one properly even if God, Satan and Gabri were guiding my controller). Sorry for potato English, I know my syntax is bad.
@Jinxed Swashbuckler yes, I put a ton of effort into ds3 pvp in the short amount of time I've been playing that when I lose I fell like an idiot. Unless I know the guy who beated me is really good (a tournament player, a youtuber exc.). Also I often can't practice because I have no friends who play ds3
@Jinxed Swashbuckler thanks for the advice; also I'm on ps4, but thank you for the offer.
Can you post Ur usual build? Or aluno to it? Is it a lightning faith right? Would like to try one
It depends but I play with my Spear build quite a bit. I have a few different ones, but if you look at "Lore'd Silly" you'll see my primary SL 90 Spear build: soulsplanner.com/users/iamamish/darksouls3
Reds became gankers? Never thought about that, makes sense
Theres also annoying glitches going on ps4 which can instant kill like the arrows and spells glitches.. it's getting boring to the point i went to invade in ds2 few days ago
To be honest invaders only in disvantage if the host have up to 1 phantom invaders have 10 siegbrau + 7 estus so this is disvantage?
*Some* invaders have 10 siegs + blessing. Even then, each sieg heals 250 hp (i think), so even an invader who ran through every sieg/estus/blessing still has less healing than the host. This also ignores the fact that many hosts & phantoms also use siegs/blessings.
The advantages hosts have are so legion that anyone that has spent any time engaging in PvP knows this is true and I don't know of any reasonable counter argument. You are welcome to try tho.
When i invade pontif, it's never more than one hour, and always with a specific idea. Like, having just a chaos dagger and no health, the white ring and the hidden spell to look like a phantom, and wait the good moment to get an instant kill backstab. If i miss, i die, usually :D . Ringed city, it's more fun, thanks to the pve, even if the party play well. At 133 on PS4 it's active and a lot of different players. There is just that host who go to the Midir elevator if he going to lose, and wait at the bottom. If you want to go to him, you have to run the ALL level :(
Me and a friend found a glitch and will be making a video on it and sending it one of the larger channels. We found a way to buff unbuffable weapons
this is kind of a late comment but I agree with u on everything u said, especially the part about most good players turning into gankers and not being able to rely on co-invaders for support because about 90% of them arent really good and they will die fast and u will end up in a 1v3 or 1v4 situation most of the time against well organized gankers that may even be using glitches for extra advantage.
I wish the game had cross save so I could move to PC. I played this game on Xbox and still do occasionally and honestly most area's are super dead except Pontiff and the DLC area's there. You may find the one guy at undead graves or something but when you go back invasion will fail. Plus nearly everyone you find weather you invade or get invaded is pretty much a super tryhard because we're all that's left. Agree that I love the organic invasions. So fun.
Would you say pivot backstabs on ultra gs' like the Zweihander or Lothric knight ugs is more reliable and safe to pull off as opposed to a rolling backstab?
I think either is OK, but more experienced players will not spam R1 and will move away if they see you rolling for their back, but you can sometimes surprise them with a pivot.
Nice video, by the way do you stream at all? Can't seem to find a link to your Twitch. Also, it'd be interesting to hear your opinions on whether the epidemic changed the community in any way, because the player numbers basically increased by 50% overnight and everywhere seems to be very active.
My Twitch is iamamishTV, but I'm not very active. There are definitely more people playing (esp on PC) and my channel activity is up by about 50% as well.
5:23 This is very true. I have much more fun nowadays being part of a gank, rather than invading a gank with coinvaders.
I would rather invade in the forest in dark souls 1 atleast I have fun there then Pontiff so many toxic people, overleveled phantoms and bow glitchers that that is not fun for me. Great video already been subbed ages ago but you make a good point!!
I love dark souls 3, played on Xbox for many hours before switching to pc. And it’s players like you who make it interesting even after all this time.
thanks man I try
I havent hardly touched my xbox at all in nearly 2 months, let alone Dark Souls 3 in nigh on a year. What level ranges and weapon upgrades could I expect the most Active invasions at in this point in the games lifecycle do you reckon? If I were to guess I'd say possibly level 55-60 weapon upgrade +6. How accurate is that in your experience? Asking for me :)
Edit one: maybe level 85ish weapon upgrade+10?
I just like to invade casuals with whatever build I want lol. You can't do that at meta pontiff, usually. In fact, I don't even watch pontiff invasions, unless it's a content creator I really enjoy.
I actually just ran into someone glitching today at Pontiff on PS4.
Yes glitching is on both platforms, but out-right cheating is pretty much limited to PC (with some exceptions on PS4; sometimes people have infinite health, or infinite stamina, or both)
Have you ever thought of making a video on tips to deal with ganks?
I have, but I'm honestly not the right person to make that video. Somebody like Silly would do that better, and in fact I think he did (though as I recall the video was somewhat sarcastic, and not as informative).
iamamish Thanks for the advice. :) funny enough I was having trouble fighting ganks yesterday but today I beat three separate ganks quite well. Weird how this game works. maybe it all clicked or something
Good shit man.
I only recently started my META SL invasions on PS4: I honestly don't mind a lot of the ones I've encountered, with some exceptions:
- I actually really dislike META level fight clubs: it's like the Arena, where you only see the same builds over and over, but worse, because there's the threat of a bunch of other randoms that are super unpredictable.
- I really don't care for Ringed City Invasions: I've tried them, but I just don't like them as much as Pontiff invasions.
I think a big part of why I enjoy Pontiff invasions, is that while I'm not a great solo invader, I actually am a pretty decent co-invader, and the way that Pontiff invasions work, it just really fits my skill set.
It's one of the biggest reasons why I don't like invading in Farron: it has a lot of the same "parts" as META, but it's just so much more cancerous. I stick around long enough to get the Wolf Ring, since I run poise heavy builds usually, then I'm out.
I agree comp,etely on your opinion on defeats: i too hate losing against cheap tactics, gonkers and ultra-meta builds, no fun in that; on the contrary if the adversary is skilled and their build is unique i compliment them, as i can only learn from them. That said, i'm more of a fight club/duel guy myself, i rarely invade, preferring to be summoned
Hey Amish can i ask you something are you mocha mook g9 silly etc gonna come back to ps4 to snipe or co invade with Chase when he does his ps4 stream?
Well I can't speak for those guys but if I'm around I will. Been busy lately tho so hard to say for sure.
I totally understand your and Silly's position on this. I can't help but feel like I got into this game at the worst possible point in its life cycle. I started playing in the summer of 2019, got into dueling (actually inspired by your gittin' gud series and spear invasions) around the fall, and only really started trying to invade recently in the last few months, something put on hold by my terrible internet connection.
The game is tired now. The people playing it are also tired, and I know a few people who have sworn off DS3 altogether due to the prevalence of glitches, exploits, and all-out cheats, at any level. The no downscale summon, gatling bow, and force dropping gestures all come to mind. It's not a good time to LRN2INVADE. I just have to hope I can get comfortable with invading before the playerbase moves on entirely to greener pastures.
I came to similar conclusions a long time ago. On paper a 3v3 is more favorable than a 2v4 but time and time again my co-invaders at Gank City/Forest are a hindrance or a direct obstacle while the average random co-invader elsewhere is just a disappointment at worst. Ultimately I mostly grew tired of it because ganks stopped pressing forward and the moment you stop pressing forward a co-invader dies which feeds them all an estus. Another more subtle reason though was that I felt annoyed of seeing the same exact weapon/build/strat in almost every invasion because Gank City lost the idea of originality and variety a long time ago.
What do you think about sorcery insta casting glitch?
I assume this is the bow glitch? I think these things are way too overpowered, even though it is possible to use them in ways that aren't as OP - it really depends on the spell/miracle you are casting, and what it appears you are casting.
Still an animation exploit like black knight greataxe or Estus flask animation cancel, wouldn’t it be a tool?
well said amish. i invade religiously and dont ever REO or red sign at pontiff. the ganks are no fun to fight, cheese/glitch, or just waste your time. by far 100% more fun to encounter random other players throughout the world. these encounters show you people from all builds, in diverse level design, with complexity and and also a more organic fight.
Great comeback at 4:42 !
@iamamish
I host pontiff and we wait till it's a 3v3 situation we dont just storm and 3v1 everyone that invades, I love the 3v3 fights not necessarily ganking, but helping each other out through out the fight, and the last guy we let live till 2 more invade, I feel this more fun for me and invaders
That sounds more fun than normal, that's for sure
When I get invaded, I usually get wumped
That’s ok! It’s ok to lose invasions.
@@iamamish Its mostly my connection. My internet is an invader's dream.
The lag is always in their side :)
@@kiharihate2897 it just looks that way. Most of the time latency is symmetric.
I ran into a LOT of cheaters in the duel area at sl135.
Mostly ∞ health/s/poise but you get game crashing curse crossbow players now and again.
Their Steam almost always says they are from China or Russia with a few Americans.
i think the whole thing with gankers is a lot of people want to pvp with their friends but they really can't unless they wanna do controlled arena matches. which isn't that fun. I hope Elden ring finds a place for 2 people who want to invade together or w/e.
Probably the only place in the game where I immediately kms after Pontiff to remove my ember status. I hate PVP in this area.
Pontif usually very toxic as an invader vs gank squads. And alot of hosts like to close the application if their phantoms die
Nice video man. I'm just really getting into invading on ds3. What would build/SL do you think I should start with to practice? Thanks man!
Thanks! If you're just starting out, I recommend around SL 55/+6, and try out central irithyll. It's always active and you'll learn the ropes there. You can also go a bit higher to around 70/+7 and invade Lothric Castle. Good luck!
how i see invasions
starter lvls max lvl 15 weapon +1----> extra hard, a lot of over leveled phantoms, you can cheese them with the dark hand and that you can get it at a really low level
20 to 100 weapon max +8-----> players start to get comfortable with the game, attempt to advance on their own, and you get easy invasions most of the time, gank squads are less common
110 and weapon +10 and above ----> just ganksquads, organized teams of phantoms, solo host who live beside the bonfire.
if you wanna invade and win most of the time, invade below meta levels, if you want a challenge, invade at sl 120
Good video as always man I haven’t invaded at pontiff much here in last few months But I always hosted at pontiff for a long time I was doing that just because I could get a lot more fighting in and 85% of the time it was just me and my brother and we would turn way of blew on on occasion especially when the invaders was running and shooting bows at us from a distance but I always enjoyed being out numbered. And it would be a 3v2 for the better part of 2 hours. But I always done it because it was just fun to meet you just to constantly be fighting that when I was invading their eye very seldomly would run into a post using the fap glitch other than maybe just to make space and heal. Anymore all I see glitch wise is people using the Estus cancel which in my opinion is one of the worst ones order using the move set swap glitch. But as invader there at pontiff I get why invaders get frustrated cause I sure did. Lol. But anyway I always enjoy your content. Man. And I love the discussion. Peace out
Interestingly enough, your comments about invaders being at a disadvantage because the game assumes certain things about the host made me wonder if DS2 didn't have the right idea letting you summon and be invaded after the area boss is dead? Some sort of system to inform invaders of what they're invading might be required for that to work, idk. I really hope FROMSOFT takes a more active approach to maintaining the online aspect of future games
I'm going to defend the unpopular opinion that invasions with dead bosses are actually a huge mistake.
If the boss is dead, how are you supposed to get rid of the invader? Sure, if he fights you straight up, it's no problem, but if he's salty and goes and hides somewhere, what do you do? You can't go through the boss fog (though you could enable it). I think this is one of the reasons invasions had timers in DS 2.
It would also be frustrating if you're trying to invade. Bloodborne compromised by making it an inherent part of invading - by invading, you are explicitly opening yourself to invasion. I think that's a good approach.
@@iamamish Definitely not my most well thought out idea ahaha. I'm just trying to gather opinions on what could be done to improve the PVP in these games, and extend the games online shelf life
@@LliamSangiorgio19 no, the core idea is a good idea, but I think that's why you don't see it
@@iamamish The cynicism of Souls fans warms my undead heart, genuinely. Sometimes it feels like they made a game so good that its flaws just became glaringly obvious. Dammit, I consider the PVP mechanics to be revolutionary and I need more of iy
Absolutely, I've been attacked by so damn many aldrich's while invading. Like bro! Wrong team!
God, it really proves my theory, 90 percent of aldrichs are useless.
I know man, I only ever point up but if you need to get them off your back obscuring ring works wonders. And when the gank squad almost kills them you run in and get the last hit for a spicy point down