The issue is the lack of AI dinosaurs. Most survival multiplayer games have some sort of NPC creatures/enemies that the player base has to interact with, but for some reason that’s a feature that all these dinosaur games lack. Sure they have AI critters, but these don’t replace the majesty or excitement of seeing huge herbivore herds or running away from carnivore packs. I mean imagine a dinosaur survival game with the AI capabilities of Jurassic World: Evolution 2! This would also make interacting with actual player dinosaurs more meaningful
I know a little about current MMOs and play MMO and some are designed that you can entirely go solo, you don't need to join group, you don't need friends and many of games despite being multiplayer cater to solo play. When I play at night where there's almost nobody I can go and kill bandits or do side mission from NPC and I have fun even if there's nobody around
@@realdragon Exactly. You can’t do that in any of these dinosaur games. Everything from combat to food is reliant on other players being online. AI dinosaurs would literally solve all these issues. Either the developers don’t know how to make proper AI or it’s too expensive for them to do so. Imo, the moment a new dinosaur game gets proper AI mechanics it will steam roll the other dinosaur games
@@Lethal_Giggles The problem I see with AI in those games is that each species should have different AI. In MMOs NPCs don't have AI, they just hang around in the area but you can also talk to them and there's story so enemies just walking in circles isn't big deal
I agree that AI dinosaurs can make the world feel more alive, but its got two flaws. 1. Regardless of whether or not you add AI dinosaurs, players crave player on player interaction. Do you feel more adrenaline hunting an AI in The Isle Evrima or hunting a player dryo? Of course the latter. On top of that, even if you have AI herds and all that, a player logging on to see "0/200" players is still demotivating because of a player's desire to see other players. 2. AI is extremely intensive on servers. Having multiplayer, which is already difficult to support optimization wise, then adding easily 100+ AI creatures around the map with unique interactions, constantly running checks on their environment to have complex interactions, it would make the connection a living hell hole. Honestly, the issue is the genre itself. The dinosaur survival game genre is pretty copy and paste, this is due to the fact that it is limited as a genre. What are your options? Growth, nesting, and combat. That's really not much. You can add new mechanics, but its still limited. However, the first point Velocci makes is both wrong and not wrong. New games are often compared to The isle, POT, and BOB. However, BOB and The isle are veterans in the genre, so why is POT up there? Path of Titans was able to offer something completely new, thats why it gained itself its own demographic. These new games just keep following in The isle's footsteps and its just not working. If they want to make it the Big 4 with their names in the books, they need something new. But.. once again, its a limited genre.
@@tipykip 1.) AI cannot replace PvP aspects of the game, and o never said it should, it supplements it. PoT and Isle, even with a full server feels completely empty and you cannot possibly compare the current AI they have now with potential larger dinosaur AI. 2.) Optimization of servers and AI is part of the struggle of gaming, other genres like MMO’s do it all the time. I don’t think it’s a valid excuse not to have it. Animal simulation games as a whole is niche. And I don’t disagree with velocci that you can only add so much. Isle and BoB are similar games with different mechanics and are good at what they do. But PoT came from Isle and in many ways is what Isle was supposed to be. I’m old enough to remember when Isle had modding capabilities.
The combat is also just kinda weird to me too, at least since im on console so i just go Herbie to avoid combat all together (I still fight, and kill, but its easier as a defender) and just chill around
Pretty sure they are working on that since they used to have ai that would walk around and fight each other but you could only spectate them not play with them so hopefully they add it back soon.
Saurian had the potential to be a good singleplayer alternative to the "Big Three" for people that want to avoid the toxicity on online play, but it's development has been so, so, so slow.
And at that the manger for that project stole thousands of dollars for there own gain, saurian managed to get the money back but as u said development is slow
Saurian looked like an amazing project, sadly one of the team cut and run with the studio's resources. I think just a few people were left with the project and had to do other things to put food on the table.
The genre as a whole has many many problems, including the current top 3, however they were fortunate by the time they were released and the developers that worked on them. The Isle has over 7 years under its belt and path is composed of very talented devs, some of which came from Afterthought (the isle dev company), They had both the time and skill factor to flourish and succeed. unfortunately tho the overwhelming majority of the new dinosaur survival games are unable to compete with the big 3, but not only because of content, but also quality. The models are low quality, the animations are bad, the audio is mediocre, the mechanics are clunky, non functional or simply worse versions of systems we already saw before and most importantly, they dont innovate. many of these games dont have mechanics or features that makes them worthwhile, specially if the game as a whole lacks quality, and i believe a big contributor to that is both aiming too high and showcasing the game way way too soon. People dont care if your game is in pre alpha, if they see your product in a bad state they will permanently have a bad impression, thats why it is crucial for developers to show their titles only when its ready. i can comment about this topic for a long time but at the end of the day, the genre is young and very niche, as of right now only a very small portion of the gamming community enjoys these games, but things will eventually get better, they already are with path's success. At the moment these sad failures are stepping stones for better games, however they will only get better if people stop making these mistakes, only time will tell.
Have you seen some of the dino games in development recently? IMO Instinction and The Lost Wild hold promise, for the sole reason that they seem to be deviating from the Dino RP Sim approach that the big 3 have taken. While not much for the titles in on the market right now, I think that they are certainly something to keep an eye on.
They really do need to innovate. If I want an isle-like experience, the isle exists, and the same goes for BoB and PoT. Why ape their style so heavily if you're not going to add anything worthwhile to these games that already have tons of room for improvement? I really do hope that we are just in the growing pains of an emerging genre, because a dinosaur game has a ton of potential to be something awe inspiring.
How many games of the same kind do you expect to exist though? And your modern warfare 3 multiplayer comparison, seems like common sense. Some people hop on it for nostalgia sake but after that they go on the newest one that is going to have the largest player base and most advancements.
the innovate part , or hel just improvement would been something i settle just as fine for , yee... its why despite loving me some dino games well leets put it this way.. i can get more dino fun with actual mechanics , interactive entities & world size out of hooking a dino mod up to minecraft ...then the big publishers dino games i seen :/ most of them are like tiny things of ''leets pretend your building a park while what realy happens is we trick you to be a janitor and do old mechanics and a lot of window dressing as we slapped some dino models on a generic park or 'hunting' simulator'' and the small ones thatmight have good ideas neither have the funding to fight for space on the steam or such storefront tops long enough to get recognition , nor do they have the crews to pump them out fast enough to compete with the big publishers wich is a dam shame because i soding love me a good drm free dino game..sigh
I am still waiting for a true singleplayer dinosaur survival where I don't have to rely on player base. But again, AI is not easy to make alive instantly
It’s pretty hard to have a single player dinosaur survival game. The only ones that work is where you play as a human, as getting chased by a dinosaur when your a human is a lot more scary than getting chased by a dinosaur while your a dinosaur.
I think the main problem is they're just trying to make the same game that is already out there. We already see this with the current top dogs of the genre. They can be summed up as "Dino walking sims" I would love to see dinosaur games that ain't just walk sims
Aswell as the park builders too. yknow looking back, I really miss the old jurassic park games whether it be a side scroller platformer, an arcade shooter, a first person shooter, and many more. even the non jp games like the well known dino crisis 1 & 2 was pretty good at its time. it's always survival or park builders these days. Sure we have games like Dino D-day, Primal Carnage, & Second Extinction and yeah they're pretty well known but for SE & D-day are pretty much "extinct" & PC is actually doing alright but it's just not enough. We have a lot of upcoming horror first person survival games which I'm pretty excited for but I also want more of the platformer or action style games you know. Idk, something that plays like the remastered Spyro games or the very obscure Power Rangers Dino Thunder game in the game cube. (anyone remember that?)
I go back to Primal Carnage every now and then, but PS4’s just been abandoned, so theres only so many lobbies you can join without seeing the same guy with 24,500 kills on soldier
This fits into the content section of the video, but I feel like dinosaur/ animal games suffer from a massive thing….Unoriginality. Too many new animal survival games are focused on dinosaurs, even though there are 3 large games that do it a lot better, and they seem to copy and paste the Isle’s gameplay loop of eat, grow, fight, die, and repeat. There are countless of themes that developers can create for an animal survival games. I’d personally love to see a game set on a fantasy world with creatures that are inspired from different cultures or play as a creature on an alien planet as I try to survive in a open world. There are also opportunities to explore the Cenozoic or Cambrian or other geologic periods. Most of these developers seem to play it “safe” and appeal to the dinosaur market, which is already dominated by The Isle, Path of Titans, and Beasts of Bermuda. As Velocci said before, “why would people visit a new game if they are already comfortable with the one they have?”
Never really thought that much into it. Makes me what to give other games a better shot other than the big 3. I'm usually hesitant due to the low player counts which is counterproductive. Thank you Velocci!
The thing is that these games also need to be cross platform and cross play to bring in more players. One thing I love most about POT is that it does just that. I'm a Switch player, and POT allowed me to play with friends who either only had a PC, Xbox, ps, or even just a mobile device. I know it takes a lot for a game to be able to do that and be a decent game. But all multiplayer games should aim for this if they hope to achieve a bigger following
I play The Isle and Path of Titans. Now much more PoT because it's less stressful. I really liked The Isle back when we had different maps and mods and progression instead of growth. I know a lot of people like growth more, but for me that wasn't the case. Since all that is gone, I like PoT way more (yes, it has growth too, but on community servers it does not take that long and if you die you don't need to start all over).
To me why i kinda drifted from path of titans is the fact i really do not like gondwa but every single server runs it (realism that is) if there were more servers with more maps to choice from to fit my playstyle i would be really invested into this game. It's why i am hoping a new modded map gets added in the future that servers run as i am so sick of gondwa lol.
Looking at upcoming titles like Instinction and The Lost Wild gives me hope for the dinosaur video game franchise as a whole, maybe they aren't the exact dino rp sims like the isle and PoT, but they still hold their own weight in the genre. Also, if The Isle's devs can actually put their money where their mouth is with their latest Roadmap, then maybe the Isle is going places.
I am always interested in playing any new dinosaur games that are released. Being a Path of Titans player, I’ve been very interested in playing The Isle, however, being that it’s only on PC, I’ve been restricted to my console. If more of these games would consider being cross platform, I think that they would have a much higher player base. I think if given the opportunity, I would play many of the newer games that are coming out, like Primal Earth for example. But again, I’m restricted to my console, as many of these games only release on certain systems or pc
The problem with console is that it is literally hot garbage in comparison to a pc. There are plenty of games that run really poorly even though I have a high tier graphics card and good pc. Console just wouldn't be able to handle pc games without completely shitting on the visuals and mechanics to optimize it for a significantly worse platform. I'm pretty sure consoles aren't even capable of running more than 60fps right now, which is on the low end for most pc players.
The problem I see with this type of game is the very same problem I see with any wildlife game. Which is why I avoid them. It's easy to for us humans to make a human based game, but to make a wildlife game is about as challenging if not more, than a space Sim. To make immersive, you have to know the physical mechanics of almost every animal that exists. Impossible. Millions of different scenarios for each action taken. It's alot.
i undertsand this completly. i my self am working on a dinosaur game on roblox with a few of my freinds. not only is it hard to get people even enterested in the idea of playing the game, but its also hard to get people to help work on it. i thought i was being smart because if you are in the roblox dinosaur community, you know that currerntly we have a lack of good dinosaur games on the platform. so with this being said i thought to take the oppertunity and start the project, it is most certainly an up-hill battle. as me and my small group work i can only hope. (btw sorry for a long comment)
WE NEED A DINO GAME WHICH IS EVERYBODY'S FRIEND. What i mean is a game which perhaps has a story but also multiplayer, no survival maybe a genre like rpg but thats not my point. A game which maybe completely works with its community by actually using feedback and even collaborating with the big 3 could lead to people not competing or arguing which is better, but actually acknoweleging that both are good in their own right.
I'd like to try a new or single player dino game. The Isle is buggy and I feel like I waste my time trying to grow anything. Path of titans was my favorite until it got ridiculously toxic and community sever being fun until I had to download mods all the time
Games like PoT and The isle set new bars for what Dinosaur games should be. If people wanna make new dinosaur games they should strive to be like those games or better. If developers find it too hard then they shouldn’t have chosen the Dino survival genre
Biggest issue for games is the fact that no one joins empty servers. The classical Server Client setup with limited slot for player to join a constantly running server is not working anymore as it seems. The Isle has a lot of empty servers on unofficial, but since only officials are shown on default many try to join them and might even not be aware of the existence of those servers. And if they are aware, the emptiness of those is not luring them to change that. The Irony is that there would be enough players who could fill those servers with ease. But no one is making the start and so they stay empty.
I just dont understand how theres so many survival/simulator dinosaur games, and a lesser degree park builders. Like, wheres the fps, strategy, monster tamer, etc. (I know there are games that are in these genres, but they're either old or not that good imo) try making some variety, how many dino survival sims do we need?
i play the isle and path of titans. i used to just have the isle and play that but then i got path of titans and these past few months ive only been play path of titans. i think i like it more than the isle because it has more dinos and i like the different environments
Following is very PoT biased: Existing games have a massive issue too, Indy games can’t keep up with the player support and development pace of major studios which can make things repetitive but the bigger issue is TOXICITY within the multiplayer. There’s two sides to this: 1-you’re a new player scratting around for acorns with a baby Allo, finally getting somewhere and SNAP you’re dead. You try again and you’re questing and now a psychotic mixpack has run you down and CRUNCH you’re dead. It can be really demoralising when you’re trying to make your way in the world but you get destroyed over and over until you switch off; unless you’re part of a massive group with various characters that would never be together, you’re getting nowhere. KOS after KOS even when you’re no threat. 2-at the opposite end, it’s a survival game and cat eats mouse and dog eats dog. If you’re a Sarco hiding alone on the shores waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike just like in real life, you take it and win, you’re on the receiving end of questions about your heritage and your mother’s fidelity. You’ve KOS’d but surely that’s part of the point of playing as an ambush predator? For me I’ve always wanted roaming packs of AI herbivores that as a player you can attack as a carnivore or as herbi to join or lead (challenge for dominance) so that you’re so much more than foodstock to be picked off. Goals should include migration or stopping infirm, young and old falling behind. Otherwise small critters could be free roaming much as the fish are, and include small lone Dinos as well as existing creatures, and be some sport to hunt as juvenile or small predators. Then, the game is good whether you’re single player or multiplayer and doesn’t punish anyone for realism but also hopefully quells the trend of mixpackers killing everything and everyone on sight, whether they’re different or same species, a threat or just going about their own business. Another feature that might be good and I have no idea of others offer this is going a step further with the weather and having periods of disaster such as volcanism, drought or flooding, maybe even strong winds that make it harder for some to get around with there being bonuses for players that weather the events better…
I'm an owner of all the big 3. I don't feel the need to go out of my way to find or play new Dino games. Sometimes I'll check out some of the Roblox creature games that exist, but I don't think that a person like me or others like me who own 2 or all 3 of the big Dino games would really be interested in buying the newer, W.I.P. games. I think that you brought up very good points and I agree with all of them. I'm an example of somebody who is very comfortable where I'm at and don't really wish to move around. I also have Primal Carnage in my roster, but I don't find myself really playing it as much as I do with The Isle or PoT.
I believe they some people Should Not try to do another dinosaur Survivors game and instead focus on a different games type like a Fantasy Dinosarur RPG Game Like Fossil Fighters and Dinosarur King Everyone seem to focus on dinosaur Survivors too much like I really missed dinosarur games like Fossil Fighters Dinosarur King even Battle of Giant Dinosarur was a Soild Fighting game to a degree
Had Wildcard not blue balled us with Ark: Primal Survival by choosing to make their game a sci fun alien RPG with dinosaurs, many dino sim games would have slogged. Ark has what we need. AI, maps, functional mechanics that can be rescripted for creature play, etc. The biggest one being AI that can be fought and hunted.
The issues with Dino/ animal sim games has really nothing to do with the communities of these games being segmented between three major different games that define the genre. Its that they are waaay too simple in their execution of overall gameplay. Because yes walking around in a map as a big dino with other players who are also dinos is fun and novel for like 15 minutes. Until you realise that most of the time you spend your game time, doing basically fucking nothing thats in any way interesting in said maps until you find other players. The gameplay loop is just mind numbingly boring if I'm being 100% honest. There's a reason the most popular servers on these games tend to be pvp/hardcore roleplay servers with fast growth timers and fast times of interaction with other players. The fact of the matter is that ALL of these animal sim games need to have much more, SMART A.I. running around in their game worlds to populate their servers. With different benefits they provide the players for either carnis or herbis. Where herbis can flock with certain A.I. dinos and gain passives that aid in combat/food gathering, etc. While carnis are tasked with gaining certain diets by hunting specific A.I. like they should for doing the same against players but albiet obviously providing less progression. To gain certain combat benifits with a healthy diet. To reward players for their actions in the game. In ways that feel natural and realistic. But these are just some personal ideas i have from having played a fair amount of these games. The lack of player reward for our time spent in game is a major factor on why these games are failing. There isn't enough incentive to get good at these games and thats obviously a huge issue. A game can be a similation of something sure but if it wants to succeed as an actual product for the avarage person it also needs to provide the player with a tangible reason to play. Basically what i'm trying to say is there needs to be an actual GAME first, and then a simulation second. Also I feel like a lot of the maps in these games as shocking as this going to sound could do with some major shrinkage especially if the goal is to have real people interacting with eachother on a regular basis. As cool as the big maps are in these games the fact of the matter is that they are just too large. A problem thats very apperent when there's nothing passively existing in these maps to make them feel populated and lived in. They have a lot of static geometry specled all around sure. But that doesn't help make the maps feel any less barren and devoid of any actual life. Visuals are cool sure, but they aren't the only important aspect of level design. There needs to be creatures roaming for players to encounter, there also needs to be events that can happen that let us the players shape the world around us in some tangible way that's memorable. Like for instence letting us move some things around in the game world. To create certain gameplay scenarios. Like let's say pushing a big rock or log off a ledge to cause a landslide or something. Or to hit other creatures to kill them, etc. These are just some suggestions that come to mind to me. But anyway what I'm tryinh to say is that a game world is basically nothing without inhabitants/ events to populate and help define it. Without these things it might as well be an empty void at the end of the day.
One of the biggest problems is the image dinosaurs and dinosaur games have. Their seen as directed toward kids and hence has created ad ridden (if their on mobile) poorly made, cash grabs and who would willingly play a game made to only take a kids parents money? Occasionally we get the good ones like the big three but the image of dinosaurs is tainted so much. There isn’t much you can do with dinosaur games either besides survival and multiplayer survival games have also been tainted. Think rust or ark having the people who put 110% of their day into the game just to wipe the newer players off the map and commonly their player base is seen as bottom of the barrel which redirects the players to either pve servers like ark servers or to not play the game entirely
I agree with all of this dinosaur survival games are very repetitive because when I try out new dinosaur game its the exact same playstyle as the isle and or path of Titans
In my opinion for people who want to make dinosaur games is don’t make dinosaur sim we have too many of them and honestly it’s getting redundant and it’s going to be a lot harder for your game to be recognized especially if you have a small team I’m not against dinosim if that’s what you want to make then more power to you but variety is always a good thing in games it also means you don’t have to compete with the big 3 and other million dinosim it also helps catch the eye of other people seeing something unique honestly I miss old dinosaur games like lost world dino crisis and others I want to see more Dino games like these
Personally i can't agree with all of this really, but that may just be me, idk. I have checked out all 3 "big games" and i have my personal opinions on each of them. Each of them have something good, something bad, something better than the other, something worse than the other. And hence that's the case, i appreciate every game for how it is and don't compare it to the others too much. Imo none are "the better one" or smth like that. To that, i am always happy to try out new dinosaur games, especially the ones that isn't about shooting the dinosaurs down but playing as them. I always loved those types of games, and the more games for these with wonderful mechanics and communities, the better (imo). Also gotta add: i especially wanna try new games cause i found out for myself that the games i already loved to play (The isle and Path of Titans) gets boring for me after a while. The Isle takes ages with actual updates, and PoT gets a bit more frustrating cause yea sure- mods are a thing, a frequent thing, but all modders really do is slam the newest op dino or mythical creature into the game. And not only does that give me crashing issues lmao but i also hate it cause things i personally love to play (sadly the smol little weak raptors) are just unplayable at this point. And no, i do not want to join the pile of new creature spammers and oneshit everything with my 8+ new abilities all over my keyboard. But yea the multiplayer games with no active servsers or people in general in it are pretty sad. I wish there was a fix to that cause i honestly wanted to try out games like The Archotek Project or Animalia.
I feel like they gotta stop releasing new Dino’s and focus on working Ai Dino’s. Look at rainworld. You’re alone but the world feels filled with life cause of how the ai works
Great topic. I’d say it’s a fair community take to feel with the history we have on the animal games that has recently been announced. More then half dinosaur games have an open world, trees with extremely high polys with no LODs or culling setup, the performance is so bad 90% can’t play it unless you have an 2-3000$ computer. What the animal game industries must be better on is finalise the game. Don’t do a half done open world, some trees & rocks and some simple animations & a paid Dinosaur from Fiverr so you can have a budget boost based on a 3 min video ad with some background sound. This sounds rough. But this is the reality how most of these games are done. I generally don’t feel bad for these young developers. Im disappointed. ☕️
It’s like the old Minecraft Xbox version, the minigames were lively until most people moved on to other games, leaving people in servers with usually no players online as of now I believe
Not going to lie I loved Ark and got it for the dinos but more and more dlc that came out I hated that it became more and more alien robots. . . I would of loved Ark with dino only even when it wasn't realistic due to size, abilities, or realism but was willing to over look it due to story and dna manipulation. That and I mean who doesn't like a crafting survival game. . .
I think the biggest problem is trying to find food. I understand survival mode but you should be able to find food easier. I am sick of running around the map sniffing out a bunch of shit that leads to nothing.
I used to play the isle until I played PoT for the first time, then I occasionally tried going back to the isle but couldn't. I eventually got BoB, but felt it did t compare to either the isle or PoT...
I think this same thing happened to primal carnage, because i used to play the game years ago, i used to play it everyday, but then i stopped playing for a year, or two, and came back to see 3-5 servers with my least favorite game mode, team deathmatch and get to the chopper, i usually like free roam, and also had only 3 or 4 players, rip primal carnage 😢 🙏 Goodbye, for now...
Here’s an idea for game creators to break into the big 3 BE ORIGINAL. Nobody has mad a mmo survival for ice age creatures yet. You could even through some stuff from the ploostiene era in there. Yeah I spelled it wrong lol
Simple answer: Dinosaur games require too much work on the game, especially since most of them are based on realism, and a small indie game can't handle all of that. most dinosaur survival games suck.
I think this is an issue because of a broader problem, the early access problem. Most indie games nowadays release in "early access" and players have been abused by this system so much that they're tired of keeping an open mind only to watch them game fail because players lose interest or the devs lose interest. Why buy an incomplete game on the promise of completion when you're already playing the same type of game that's done, or at least more complete than the new game.
This is very much the reason why I'm not touching any of these new games for a long time. Been burned too many times by pretty promises only for the games to never go where they wanted/said they would go. There's also not much that sets these games apart from one another at first glance. Just the regular old throw a bunch of completely random dinos/reptiles on a mostly tropical map. PoT subverts this a little but not by much. I'd be much more interested in a dino game that's set in colder climates and/or focuses on a specific time period and location like Saurian does. Or even better yet: why not a survival game focused on non-dino prehistoric life? There's an open niche there. I don't need another "big 3" copy.
Animal survival games in general do have alot of issues, but when it comes to the demand issue, yeah, that's certainly something mostly only relevant in dinosaur survival games: the demand for dinosaur survival has already been met multiple times and people have latched onto the games they play. Another 'issuue', from what I've seen, most animal survival issues relate to the playerbase: the amount of average players, how the community acts, what the community wants and how they react to what they get. The development of some games can be shifted by the feedback of its players, for better or worse.
There has been an oversaturation in savannah survival games imo which is a damn shame considering about none of them are really what I would want from a good survival game. I’d preffer the mechanics and map to be fleshed out before the models. I also think people have a tendency to neglect making herbivore gameplay fun when the game’s entire playability basically depends on it
The DbD community voiced similar concerns about their game and why all the upstart competitors keep failing. That game has even more of a monopoly on its genre than the dino survival games do because it was the only one to do it right for a while. At least for the dino survival games, we have healthy competition between PoT, BoB, and Isle so when one is ignoring its fanbase, many of them will shift over to another one with a different niche that they can tolerate. For instance, I shifted from the Isle to PoT because the Isle's development is too slow.
Ya as a former DBD player I understand this struggle more with dino games. Played DBD for 6 years off and on but finally left after the last 2 chapters came out. The devs ignored hacking and bugs to just push for monetary items but not fix their game. Granted the alien chapter has caught my eye but idk if it would be enough for me to come back.
Same here, been playing since it came out on Xbox. I took a break for a couple years until Demogorgon came out, and i’ve been playing on and off. I moved to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and for now, its kind of casual-friendly.
The biggest problem I am seeing with these new games is they look very rushed and unfinished. The environment feels empty or stiff. the textures rough and glitchy. They want to compete so badly that they rush through the product and skip out on quality control to just have a product out there. Time is money, and if they put time into making a polished and emersive product, they may stand a better chance.
I would like to see more small/new dinosaur games get some popularity because some of the major games in this genre have some issues that need to be resolved. Like The Isle; most or hopefully, all of us know that their devs are next to completely incompetent and toxic like no other. PoT is good, but them trying to make it an MMO specifically is really getting in their own way. Haven't really touched BoB. But my point is, I want to see if these newer games can maybe even "copy and paste" one of three, but also improve its flaws. Use different dinosaurs, etc.
This already one hidden gem called prior extinction that recently got updated, and although its on roblox, the devs really powered through and made it feel more like an official game, with more realistic models, and more balancing than stuff like path of titans, with a lot of new features, with more than 1K current players a day
For me, the reason they are dying is becasue we are CONSTANTLY being shown and told about new dinos and features and then NOT receiving them and never being told about it ever again until it secretly and unknowingly get put into the game. And here's the kicker, 50% of the servers don't have the new mods. So it's IMPOSSIBLE to find out where the new stuff is at, and if you choose a server it takes 20 mintues to load the mods. For you to then join multiple servers that dont have the NEW features
This vid reminds me of ReaverJolts video on a very very similar topic. I wanted to believe in saurian for example. I backed their game, I made a overview video that the developers themselves retweeted and everything, but unfortunately even after that one person ran off with a bunch of their money, they've never recovered. I had high hopes for the game, but now after the development is taking years to release anything meaningful, I've essentially given up on it now.
A key element in these new survival games is offering something meaningful that the others don't provide. I've played The Isle and Path of Titans, so I can only speak to those two. The Isle has more of a Jurassic Park feel, with the inclusion of man-made structures and seems to have humans in mind as playable in the future. The dinosaurs are more in line with the JP style, grow through a timed system, and can navigate via a scent system. They also have night vision, which in the pitch black of night can amp up the terror greatly. Path of Titans is focused on a more realistic feel rather than JP horror. Its dinosaurs are a bit more customizable, having subspecies, and having an in-game currency that afford a variety of upgrades in skins, abilities, and home caves. Growth, and said currency, operate on a quest system which gives additional activity beyond just wandering and surviving. The game is also built to allow for mods, providing whole new possibilities for players. Having an at least somewhat unique roster of playable dinosaurs can also work in the game's favor. Superstar dinos like T-Rex are all but required, it seems, but adding less utilized species that the other games don't have can be a boon, even if they occupy very similar niches. It's important to note that player behavior can play a crucial role as well. One of my favorite episodes of South Park is Make Love, Not Warcraft, and it showcases wonderfully how toxic players can put a game's success at risk. On the flip side, I've also played Draconia, and while multiplayer doesn't have many people, it's one of the friendliest communities I've ever seen.
This genre is niche and that is the problem, there isn't much to expand from. Seems like all the starting devs do the same mistake: not enough content and the content they have is pretty much clone from one of the bigger games but can't deliver same quality models, map etc. I would love to see game that has creatures from devonian period, carboniferious period or permian period, those creatures were very interesting. And animal games have same problem, they are falling in same niche, all I see is present day animals that are from Africa, just give me frigging ice age animals to play as or try continent with different animals for crying out loud.
Its not as great as it looks. I know that feeling. I wanted to play it so desperatly and when i finally had it, i thought i wouldnt want to buy Path of Titans for PC again, (transfering accounts from mobile to PC didnt work back then) because i thought the Isle was better anyways. I was so wrong and only after 1 week i realised that i wanted to play Path of Titans again (and it didnt even have growth system or anything at that time). Yes the Isle is good and worth a buy, but it somehow looks cooler when others play it. I went through the same shit, trust me
My two cents: dino games need to not be based on the same sort of thing. For example, the big three all started out as survival games, and still are. But BoB implemented and enhanced a detailed nesting system alongside a talent tree, and PoT allowed for mods, questing, and will have other game modes in the future, making both games different from The Isle. I feel like what new dino games need to do is be actively different. They can still fall into the survival genre, but instead of the basics, maybe you need to hunt a specific herbivore, or as that herbivore, you need to escape a specific carnivore. Protect X nest for Y time, or from Z dino. Just something that isn't the same grow, eat, drink, fight that all of the big three have in common. Heck, the whole reason Oakwood worked other than its price point was the fact it -wasn't- survival; it was horror, and it did that very well in spite of its graphics.
Except the core gameplay loop for the isle is almost perfect. I dont want an mmo and quests and shitty force fed time based shit that will get stale really quick, I want the isle with more dinos and more people. Nothing even comes close to the combat system in the isle from what I've played and seen so far.
@@dylancrosby2451 Might want to watch the video & read what I said again, as you seem to lack the context of what I was talking about. The question in the video was why do new dino games struggle. I gave an answer based on my experience and understanding. At no point in my response did I trash The Isle; I simply stated what I thought about the context of the video. If you want to argue about why you think The Isle is "perfect," you should find a better comment & video to start that conversation with, cause it sounds like you don't want new dino games at all based on this response to an opinion post.
I disagree, i think people get over excited for small and unfully games, cuz they want new content that bob, path of titans and mostly the isle take more time to release something
@@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533 sorry i wrote excited wrong, i mesnt players get hyped for small games thst are unfinish and get frustated when its not what they expected
The biggest thing that a new dino game needs to do to successfully compete is to offer something that the others dont. Like a create a dinosaur suite. I can guarantee that a lot of us want to create our own dinos like we did on paper and in Spore. It's easy to compete when you offer things that are unique to your company. That's why Long John Silver's was around for so long or why WWE keeps pumping out video games. They offer things that the competition doesn't. Yes, LJS was ran out of business because McDonald's now serves fish and 2K Sports had released an absolutely terrible game that made the company not release WWE 2k21. Bumps will happen. But it's always good to offer things that are unique. Think about the Isle and it's unique mutations
I don't think customisation will work, there are a great deal of players that enjoy a more realistic take on the dino sims genre. There are servers that enforce rules like herbivores not pursuing carnivores or players forming packs only with members of the same species. Custom dinos (other then "skin" color) with mutations would be a very polarising feature, to the point that making a spore clone would yield a better outcome. I think that the people that argue in favor of a solo experience with a more immersive world are on the right track, but that's my opinion
The problem with new dinosaur games, atleast imo is that they start off promising to be they're own thing but ultimately end up more or less just copying what The Isle did.
Nothing even comes close to the isle from what ive played. Pot looks like an mmo and doesn't seem very fun or realistic, like wow you collected flowers and shit, such great dino gameplay. Havent played bob though, but if that's more like the isle and not like pot ill probably play it eventually. Anything is better than the level 200 dodo birds from ark, I cant stand leveling systems in pvp games, especially ones that are supposed to emulate realism.
- I enjoy The Isle but it takes way too long to get into the real meat of the game(adulthood). If they just cut growing times in half, it'd be a much more enjoyable and less stressful game. - Path of Titans is way too gamey with the silly quest system and switch out perk system. It feels more like an MMORPG than a survival game. - Beasts of Bermuda isn't anywhere near the quality of the other two.
May I add: - Isles of Yore, a visually stunning and beautiful game, but the game is empty because no one plays it because it is so empty and there are less playable dinos to play than what its competitors have - Saurian is not even close to a finished game even though it has been developed for 6 years due to slow development and in terms of graphics and textures it has fallen behind and they are not up to date - Historia, well this game was in development and crowdfunded but then disappeared a couple of years ago and we haven't heard from it since then and the game has not even been available at the Early Access
The issue with smaller games is that they're not really offering anything new, they are just copycats of copycats. Even the big 3 are constantly copying ideas from each other (for example, BoB had flight mechanics first, then Isle and PoT followed; or PoT had body collision first and the Isle followed). New games will not succeed unless they can offer something radically different that is not present in the big 3. PoT was late to the competition but managed to catch up thanks to having an unusual roster of species as well as being extremely mod-friendly.
I feel like there are so many single player dinosaur games where you play as the human. But.. like zero where you play as the other side. The only one I can think of is that Lost World PS1 game. It could easily be done, maybe as a stealth game or even reverse-horror. But all the devs just make games where you're some person with a gun. The one's that do make games where you play as a dinosaur (heck, any animal or beast) just make them solely multiplayer. They also never do a great job of making the dinosaurs feel unique with regards to combat. A Tyrannosaurus should be able to grab smaller creatures, a raptor should be able to pounce and grip.
The problem is the ‘big three’ are effectively empty battle sims, rather than survival. The isle has very little npc Dino’s and they’re only small prey Dino’s. Path of titans has npcs you have to interact with a spawner to release and are just prey that run away from you. And dunno what the hell bob is doin. Glad to see someone bring up multiplayer as a struggling point of Dino games, since even the big three just use it as an excuse to avoid content, or get sucked into trying to be a people pleaser (cough cough bob cough cough) Something I want to see is a dino survival game thats solely singleplayer or at the very least has a singleplayer mode or campaign. It makes sure developers properly flesh out mechanics and their vision, because they can't just release a paid game with like 2 solo missions.
Not to mention that even the BIG 3 games have a LOT of problems that have to be resolved, and we don't know if they ever will. We are so used to games trying and failing, even the successful ones that we play, that people stopped believing to animal games actually implementing what they promise. It's impossible. And if you add the multiplayer problem, they are doomed. I really hope one day a small team with brain and no megalomania, will try to create a small game, with few but well thought and immersive mechanics. The mega projects, with hundreds of species and mechanics, with a totally free gameplay will NEVER work in this genre (unless you play for pvp and chaos).
Idk if there's too much to discuss here. After one dino survival simulation game releases, all the others are going to be derivative unless their goal is to make something different. The 'big 3' have enough substantial differences between them to allow them these top spots, but most other ones are either so derivative of them to the point of being so similar they're pretty much irrelevant, or just so different from the 'mmo dino survival' shtick that people who are into the genre don't really pay much attention to them. We're talking a pretty niche 'market' here, so it's extra difficult.
This has gotten me thinking about my game i want to make. It would be about alien survival. I wanted to take elements from all the big three, while adding my own mechanics, making a functional, fun, and replayable single player mode, while also having key differences such as procedurally generated terrain, in game currency that doesn't require real money, co-op Multiplayer. RPG elements like npcs, shops, crafting, and building... Hoping that this would be enough to make my game stand out from the big three enough to not have a comparison point.
Just waiting for a survival game with modern animals (those games are a WIP) and of course dragon games, and survival games with their own creatures. Indie developers should take the survival simulator aspect but apply it to a different world/creatures, and stop riding off the dino craze.
My favorite dinosaur game till this day is 'Primal Carnage'. If a game only offers survival as an objective, then the best way to not die is to not play. It just isn't my cup of tea to be constantly on edge during a walking simulator. My point is, if a new dinosaur game is going to come out and be successful, it needs to not be trying to emulate the big 3 whatsoever. Instead, it needs to focus on more round-based gameplay instead of shared world gameplay, so that it isn't competing in the same niche.
Ok this may get a lot of hate, but I think it needs to be said. A game is supposed to be fun. I don't care how much you funded a project on kickstarter, I don't care that you're in the Devs obscure Discord, if they're not working on the game overtime, do a charge back. They possess a responsibility. The point of a game is supposed to be fun. Having intriguing and good mechanics within a game is crucial, this isn't to say, realism shouldn't be implemented but it has its time in place. Just because something is nich doesn't make it good. The reason the big 3 suffer so much is due to generic structure. Start out as boring juvenile, play it for a cumbersome amount of time before you mature. Oh look you need to watch out and manage hunger, stamina and thirst. As you walk on a mostly large empty map. Time to praise the devs for adding another animal and doing bear minimum work.
I like all of the dinosaur games, but my favorite must be path of titans, even tho i dont fight about who likes what, i only like path of titans, because its my first dinosaur survival game i ever played - not counting ark.
@@venrix2049 I think it is in early access but when the isle first came out like the progression days were leagues better honestly even path before gondwa was better it is so bad
Another big problem with dinosaur games is outside of the big names (The Isle, Path of Titans, etc) a lot of them end up coming out looking like some cheap mobile game
You made a lot of great points that I hadn't thought about before, Velocci. It's a sad situation. I don't like to see these developers struggle. I would love to see more dinosaur games out there but seems so much more difficult for developers to break through on this genre for all these reasons and more. You touched on the cross-platform aspect and that point is incredibly important for me, at least. I got started on iOS and now play on Mac and Xbox so Path of Titans is my preferred and only dinosaur game [noting here that I prefer no humans and semi-realism aesthetics. Sorry 'bout that, Ark, Paleo Pines, etc.] I appreciate how Alderon Games (Path of Titans) has tapped into the players of console, Switch, Mac, mobile, and more. PC players have had it pretty good and has left those players rather spoiled for choice at this point. It's probably going to be hard to beat the well-established PC-only games and the cross-platforming PoT if no other dinosaur games choose to implement cross-platform capabilities into their own development. But I will admit (toward your first point) that even if the Isle or BoB (or even the single-player Saurian) or any of the new games were cross-platform, PoT is my ideal game. The game style is ideal since I can quest and don't feel obligated to PVP, no humans coming to the game (I've waited many years for a dinosaur game that isn't through from the perspective of a human hunter/exterminator), and the models and atmospheric elements look good enough to take pretty wallpaper screenshots (shallow as it seems, aesthetics matter for me here)! PLUS modding is giving me even more lovely dinosaurs and playables to take pictures of and hang out with my friends. I'm not sure what elements would be needed for launching a new game that gets to be as played and favored as the big 3 in this genre but I hope that future developers in this genre (and even the current ones trying to stand out in the crowd) consider aiming for cross-platform. I can't help but think that it could help broaden their player-base opportunities. Despite not being a developer myself, I'm sure it is likely easier said than done. But if they could manage it, I expect it would help AT LEAST improve their odds of growing a community and thriving for the long haul.
Every dino game I play adds a new oc to my roster. Ark gave me -my rhyniognatha oc scarab -my yutyrannus oc omega -my my charcharodontosaurus oc dreadbought -my dakotaraptor oc blade Dinosaur arcade gave me -my giganotosaurus oc bastion Path of titans contributed to blade's design
Just lack of creativeness and realism. Life of a dinosaur wasn’t “collect 35 nuts”. It was find specific food, find water, watch for danger, find shelter, find a mate, guard the babys, find food for babies. Ai dinosaur mates would be a great addition in my opinion. Creating your own ai herd for your specific Dino. Finding your food water etc. Defending your territory and young from predators. Imagine migrating to the far side of the map for food and water bc your area is in the dry season. For a dinosaur game you need a massive map, bountiful ai, dangers lurking, and things to constantly do or avoid.
Have you ever heard about "for the hive"? Two developers who have been spending years on that game. It will be the first insect open world mmo and I'm super excited for it! It's not dinosaurs but it's something new and i think it's going to do very well.
If anything is pushing people from dino games its the toxicity that comes with playing them. Path for example is a solid game but the interactions with other players in global or party chat is too tribalistic to enjoy it.
It also sucks that any new dinosaur survival game that comes out will be super judged on what the dinosaurs do, their abilities, what you can do with the dinosaur youre playing as, how customizable it is, etc. It will be soley compared to one of the big 3. A game developer would need to create a whole new system for a dinosaur survival game that none of the big 3 have. And that would be really hard to do. But it IS doable. I just hope there comes a time when there will be a game that takes everything from all 3 big dino games and implement it all into one game. The isles graphics, beasts of bermudas weather, skills tree, colors etc. Path of titans mods and fighting abilities and animations. Etc. It would be the ultimate game
The main issue is they compete for the sane niche. There's too many dino survival games. Best way for a new game to thrive is to walk away from survival and into different genres
here way i see it .....people need to get off their high horses and stop compairing a new game to old one and not let the new one have a chance.....people will disrepect a game till it is almost a mirror to the old one bur at that time they will disrespect the game cause it dont have new content and it not just dino games but any new game have this same up evil to deal with
Imagine if somebody made a dino game with AI, like a survival game, but with rpg elements like skill trees, levels, and have the skill tree basicly upgrade/ enhance your dino and their survival ability, say like movement buffs, less hunger, deeper attacks(more dmg) quieter sounds(stealth) so you can create dinos, your own way. And then just make appearnces of your dino either buyable cosmetics or ingame achievements for killing so and so or being alive for so long
One thing that's strikes me from POT not lasting as its ruthless in learning curve. Problem being is the new comers trying to learn the point of the game. The mechanics of every dinosaur without being KOS by accomplished veterans. Young dinosaurs have zero chance as if they can't fight and are to slow to flee. A very harsh game to even grow a little. Private lobbies with AI Dinosaurs the player can learn without been bullied from the game before they really start to grow. Challenges of territories of dominant packs of species. Learning how to fight and when best to split. Multiplayer doesn't always have to be PVP to succeed especially when thrown in with day one players with fully grown perked up Dino's who know it of by heart. A mode as such with friends vs AI would definitely appeal to many as the PVP no killing lobby players a place to team up and enjoy. I agree the game needs far more content then collecting branches, acorns etc to work but it's something for the players who just can't compete with the death loss of growth respawn far far away from the group. It seriously needs different modes in PVP and definitely PVE even if it's still to its survival genre.
My problem is that there's barely any variety. It's rather an Isle copy or broken hunting game, or Ark. Honestly want a Platformer or a RPG dino game. I do like how we're getting Horror games but only one I'm excited for because unlike others it's not going for the realistic look and instead going for PSOne visuals which looks really good.
New dino games should cater the attention of settled players by doing the obvious things the big three fail at. Beasts of Bermuda is terrible at everything except skills, Path of Titans is empty AI-wise, the Isle legacy is not being updated anymore while evrima is horribly underoptimized and glitchy. There are also more specific issues and generally bad features that can be easily fixed but developers prefer to focus on other stuff, like releasing new dinos rather than make their games more playable. New dino games should go for what the community needs, wants and the current devs are not giving anytime soon.
This isn't a problem. It's a normal thing in every aspect of life. From games to cars to foods. At the end of the day if you create a quality product, people will buy it. If a game comes along thats better than the "big 3", people will play it. Bring something new to the table.
Because the people making them either rush them or don’t bring any new interesting ideas for dinosaur games to the table? Lots of repetitive types of games being made when related to dinosaurs. Probably the most unique ones is a Pokémon like in the form of Fossil Fighters that basically got killed off in the 3rd game because they had to make it vehicle based and absolutely gutted the team making aspect of the game and Ark Survival evolved just for it really the biggest fully fledged dinosaur survival game out there that isn’t stuck in beta testing hell or relying on kickstarters for development costs. I’ve actually talked about an experimental idea for a dinosaur themed game that is a blend of survival and action shooter genre. Think of the titanfall 2 time travel segment of the game but make that the whole game and replace the past portion with becoming a dinosaur and having to manage need bars while figuring out mysteries. Think of it like two overarching stories that you have to figure out both of to end up solving how to get through the entire game. That’s the general idea but alas I don’t have any clue how to get the idea out there or how to run a development company. So this idea will be kept in the back of my head till I can get a solid monetary foundation to stand on.
The issue is the lack of AI dinosaurs. Most survival multiplayer games have some sort of NPC creatures/enemies that the player base has to interact with, but for some reason that’s a feature that all these dinosaur games lack. Sure they have AI critters, but these don’t replace the majesty or excitement of seeing huge herbivore herds or running away from carnivore packs. I mean imagine a dinosaur survival game with the AI capabilities of Jurassic World: Evolution 2!
This would also make interacting with actual player dinosaurs more meaningful
I know a little about current MMOs and play MMO and some are designed that you can entirely go solo, you don't need to join group, you don't need friends and many of games despite being multiplayer cater to solo play. When I play at night where there's almost nobody I can go and kill bandits or do side mission from NPC and I have fun even if there's nobody around
@@realdragon Exactly. You can’t do that in any of these dinosaur games. Everything from combat to food is reliant on other players being online. AI dinosaurs would literally solve all these issues. Either the developers don’t know how to make proper AI or it’s too expensive for them to do so. Imo, the moment a new dinosaur game gets proper AI mechanics it will steam roll the other dinosaur games
@@Lethal_Giggles The problem I see with AI in those games is that each species should have different AI. In MMOs NPCs don't have AI, they just hang around in the area but you can also talk to them and there's story so enemies just walking in circles isn't big deal
I agree that AI dinosaurs can make the world feel more alive, but its got two flaws.
1. Regardless of whether or not you add AI dinosaurs, players crave player on player interaction. Do you feel more adrenaline hunting an AI in The Isle Evrima or hunting a player dryo? Of course the latter. On top of that, even if you have AI herds and all that, a player logging on to see "0/200" players is still demotivating because of a player's desire to see other players.
2. AI is extremely intensive on servers. Having multiplayer, which is already difficult to support optimization wise, then adding easily 100+ AI creatures around the map with unique interactions, constantly running checks on their environment to have complex interactions, it would make the connection a living hell hole.
Honestly, the issue is the genre itself. The dinosaur survival game genre is pretty copy and paste, this is due to the fact that it is limited as a genre. What are your options? Growth, nesting, and combat. That's really not much. You can add new mechanics, but its still limited.
However, the first point Velocci makes is both wrong and not wrong. New games are often compared to The isle, POT, and BOB. However, BOB and The isle are veterans in the genre, so why is POT up there? Path of Titans was able to offer something completely new, thats why it gained itself its own demographic. These new games just keep following in The isle's footsteps and its just not working. If they want to make it the Big 4 with their names in the books, they need something new. But.. once again, its a limited genre.
@@tipykip
1.) AI cannot replace PvP aspects of the game, and o never said it should, it supplements it. PoT and Isle, even with a full server feels completely empty and you cannot possibly compare the current AI they have now with potential larger dinosaur AI.
2.) Optimization of servers and AI is part of the struggle of gaming, other genres like MMO’s do it all the time. I don’t think it’s a valid excuse not to have it.
Animal simulation games as a whole is niche. And I don’t disagree with velocci that you can only add so much. Isle and BoB are similar games with different mechanics and are good at what they do. But PoT came from Isle and in many ways is what Isle was supposed to be. I’m old enough to remember when Isle had modding capabilities.
I am still hoping that Path of Titans will release a TRUE singleplayer experience, with AI Dinos roaming around and filling the world
This is all I want as well. Sometimes I'm not feeling social
That's the only thing that would bring me back to it, I cannot handle the toxicity on that game.
FOR REAL
The combat is also just kinda weird to me too, at least since im on console so i just go Herbie to avoid combat all together (I still fight, and kill, but its easier as a defender) and just chill around
Pretty sure they are working on that since they used to have ai that would walk around and fight each other but you could only spectate them not play with them so hopefully they add it back soon.
Saurian had the potential to be a good singleplayer alternative to the "Big Three" for people that want to avoid the toxicity on online play, but it's development has been so, so, so slow.
And at that the manger for that project stole thousands of dollars for there own gain,
saurian managed to get the money back but as u said development is slow
@@Czesin Oh damn I didn't know that, or at least I don't remember that happening. Who was the manager in question? Were there legal repercussions?
Saurian looked like an amazing project, sadly one of the team cut and run with the studio's resources. I think just a few people were left with the project and had to do other things to put food on the table.
The genre as a whole has many many problems, including the current top 3, however they were fortunate by the time they were released and the developers that worked on them.
The Isle has over 7 years under its belt and path is composed of very talented devs, some of which came from Afterthought (the isle dev company), They had both the time and skill factor to flourish and succeed. unfortunately tho the overwhelming majority of the new dinosaur survival games are unable to compete with the big 3, but not only because of content, but also quality.
The models are low quality, the animations are bad, the audio is mediocre, the mechanics are clunky, non functional or simply worse versions of systems we already saw before and most importantly, they dont innovate. many of these games dont have mechanics or features that makes them worthwhile, specially if the game as a whole lacks quality, and i believe a big contributor to that is both aiming too high and showcasing the game way way too soon. People dont care if your game is in pre alpha, if they see your product in a bad state they will permanently have a bad impression, thats why it is crucial for developers to show their titles only when its ready. i can comment about this topic for a long time but at the end of the day, the genre is young and very niche, as of right now only a very small portion of the gamming community enjoys these games, but things will eventually get better, they already are with path's success.
At the moment these sad failures are stepping stones for better games, however they will only get better if people stop making these mistakes, only time will tell.
Have you seen some of the dino games in development recently? IMO Instinction and The Lost Wild hold promise, for the sole reason that they seem to be deviating from the Dino RP Sim approach that the big 3 have taken. While not much for the titles in on the market right now, I think that they are certainly something to keep an eye on.
They really do need to innovate. If I want an isle-like experience, the isle exists, and the same goes for BoB and PoT. Why ape their style so heavily if you're not going to add anything worthwhile to these games that already have tons of room for improvement? I really do hope that we are just in the growing pains of an emerging genre, because a dinosaur game has a ton of potential to be something awe inspiring.
How many games of the same kind do you expect to exist though? And your modern warfare 3 multiplayer comparison, seems like common sense.
Some people hop on it for nostalgia sake but after that they go on the newest one that is going to have the largest player base and most advancements.
the innovate part , or hel just improvement would been something i settle just as fine for , yee... its why despite loving me some dino games well leets put it this way..
i can get more dino fun with actual mechanics , interactive entities & world size out of hooking a dino mod up to minecraft ...then the big publishers dino games i seen :/ most of them are like tiny things of ''leets pretend your building a park while what realy happens is we trick you to be a janitor and do old mechanics and a lot of window dressing as we slapped some dino models on a generic park or 'hunting' simulator''
and the small ones thatmight have good ideas neither have the funding to fight for space on the steam or such storefront tops long enough to get recognition , nor do they have the crews to pump them out fast enough to compete with the big publishers
wich is a dam shame because i soding love me a good drm free dino game..sigh
but i dont wanna be a human in a world with dinosaurs I wanna be a dinosaur myself@@kratosdertoten4035
I am still waiting for a true singleplayer dinosaur survival where I don't have to rely on player base. But again, AI is not easy to make alive instantly
There is one. It's called ark
@@zechariahrurak3456 You don't play as a dinosaur in that game, and frankly ark is pretty shit
It’s pretty hard to have a single player dinosaur survival game. The only ones that work is where you play as a human, as getting chased by a dinosaur when your a human is a lot more scary than getting chased by a dinosaur while your a dinosaur.
Bruh u can make ur own ecosystem of Dinos in evolution 2
@@nightjokerrz I'm assuming you're referring to Jurassic World Evolution 2, which isn't a survival game and doesn't really match what OP has in mind.
I think the main problem is they're just trying to make the same game that is already out there. We already see this with the current top dogs of the genre. They can be summed up as "Dino walking sims" I would love to see dinosaur games that ain't just walk sims
Aswell as the park builders too.
yknow looking back, I really miss the old jurassic park games whether it be a side scroller platformer, an arcade shooter, a first person shooter, and many more.
even the non jp games like the well known dino crisis 1 & 2 was pretty good at its time.
it's always survival or park builders these days. Sure we have games like Dino D-day, Primal Carnage, & Second Extinction and yeah they're pretty well known but for SE & D-day are pretty much "extinct" & PC is actually doing alright but it's just not enough.
We have a lot of upcoming horror first person survival games which I'm pretty excited for but I also want more of the platformer or action style games you know.
Idk, something that plays like the remastered Spyro games or the very obscure Power Rangers Dino Thunder game in the game cube. (anyone remember that?)
I go back to Primal Carnage every now and then, but PS4’s just been abandoned, so theres only so many lobbies you can join without seeing the same guy with 24,500 kills on soldier
Path is planning on adding game modes like deathmatch.
What if dino game but asteroid is coming? There's impending doom and you know it, what will you do
@@realdragon one word. run.
This fits into the content section of the video, but I feel like dinosaur/ animal games suffer from a massive thing….Unoriginality. Too many new animal survival games are focused on dinosaurs, even though there are 3 large games that do it a lot better, and they seem to copy and paste the Isle’s gameplay loop of eat, grow, fight, die, and repeat.
There are countless of themes that developers can create for an animal survival games. I’d personally love to see a game set on a fantasy world with creatures that are inspired from different cultures or play as a creature on an alien planet as I try to survive in a open world. There are also opportunities to explore the Cenozoic or Cambrian or other geologic periods.
Most of these developers seem to play it “safe” and appeal to the dinosaur market, which is already dominated by The Isle, Path of Titans, and Beasts of Bermuda.
As Velocci said before, “why would people visit a new game if they are already comfortable with the one they have?”
Never really thought that much into it. Makes me what to give other games a better shot other than the big 3.
I'm usually hesitant due to the low player counts which is counterproductive.
Thank you Velocci!
The thing is that these games also need to be cross platform and cross play to bring in more players. One thing I love most about POT is that it does just that. I'm a Switch player, and POT allowed me to play with friends who either only had a PC, Xbox, ps, or even just a mobile device.
I know it takes a lot for a game to be able to do that and be a decent game. But all multiplayer games should aim for this if they hope to achieve a bigger following
I play The Isle and Path of Titans. Now much more PoT because it's less stressful. I really liked The Isle back when we had different maps and mods and progression instead of growth. I know a lot of people like growth more, but for me that wasn't the case. Since all that is gone, I like PoT way more (yes, it has growth too, but on community servers it does not take that long and if you die you don't need to start all over).
To me why i kinda drifted from path of titans is the fact i really do not like gondwa but every single server runs it (realism that is) if there were more servers with more maps to choice from to fit my playstyle i would be really invested into this game. It's why i am hoping a new modded map gets added in the future that servers run as i am so sick of gondwa lol.
Looking at upcoming titles like Instinction and The Lost Wild gives me hope for the dinosaur video game franchise as a whole, maybe they aren't the exact dino rp sims like the isle and PoT, but they still hold their own weight in the genre. Also, if The Isle's devs can actually put their money where their mouth is with their latest Roadmap, then maybe the Isle is going places.
I am always interested in playing any new dinosaur games that are released. Being a Path of Titans player, I’ve been very interested in playing The Isle, however, being that it’s only on PC, I’ve been restricted to my console. If more of these games would consider being cross platform, I think that they would have a much higher player base. I think if given the opportunity, I would play many of the newer games that are coming out, like Primal Earth for example. But again, I’m restricted to my console, as many of these games only release on certain systems or pc
The problem with console is that it is literally hot garbage in comparison to a pc. There are plenty of games that run really poorly even though I have a high tier graphics card and good pc. Console just wouldn't be able to handle pc games without completely shitting on the visuals and mechanics to optimize it for a significantly worse platform. I'm pretty sure consoles aren't even capable of running more than 60fps right now, which is on the low end for most pc players.
The problem I see with this type of game is the very same problem I see with any wildlife game. Which is why I avoid them. It's easy to for us humans to make a human based game, but to make a wildlife game is about as challenging if not more, than a space Sim. To make immersive, you have to know the physical mechanics of almost every animal that exists. Impossible. Millions of different scenarios for each action taken. It's alot.
I think this is exactly why Ark and Primal Carnage did better as Dinosaur games.
i undertsand this completly. i my self am working on a dinosaur game on roblox with a few of my freinds. not only is it hard to get people even enterested in the idea of playing the game, but its also hard to get people to help work on it. i thought i was being smart because if you are in the roblox dinosaur community, you know that currerntly we have a lack of good dinosaur games on the platform. so with this being said i thought to take the oppertunity and start the project, it is most certainly an up-hill battle. as me and my small group work i can only hope. (btw sorry for a long comment)
WE NEED A DINO GAME WHICH IS EVERYBODY'S FRIEND. What i mean is a game which perhaps has a story but also multiplayer, no survival maybe a genre like rpg but thats not my point. A game which maybe completely works with its community by actually using feedback and even collaborating with the big 3 could lead to people not competing or arguing which is better, but actually acknoweleging that both are good in their own right.
I'd like to try a new or single player dino game. The Isle is buggy and I feel like I waste my time trying to grow anything. Path of titans was my favorite until it got ridiculously toxic and community sever being fun until I had to download mods all the time
Games like PoT and The isle set new bars for what Dinosaur games should be. If people wanna make new dinosaur games they should strive to be like those games or better. If developers find it too hard then they shouldn’t have chosen the Dino survival genre
Biggest issue for games is the fact that no one joins empty servers.
The classical Server Client setup with limited slot for player to join a constantly running server is not working anymore as it seems.
The Isle has a lot of empty servers on unofficial, but since only officials are shown on default many try to join them and might even not be aware of the existence of those servers.
And if they are aware, the emptiness of those is not luring them to change that.
The Irony is that there would be enough players who could fill those servers with ease. But no one is making the start and so they stay empty.
I just dont understand how theres so many survival/simulator dinosaur games, and a lesser degree park builders. Like, wheres the fps, strategy, monster tamer, etc. (I know there are games that are in these genres, but they're either old or not that good imo) try making some variety, how many dino survival sims do we need?
i play the isle and path of titans. i used to just have the isle and play that but then i got path of titans and these past few months ive only been play path of titans. i think i like it more than the isle because it has more dinos and i like the different environments
Following is very PoT biased:
Existing games have a massive issue too, Indy games can’t keep up with the player support and development pace of major studios which can make things repetitive but the bigger issue is TOXICITY within the multiplayer. There’s two sides to this:
1-you’re a new player scratting around for acorns with a baby Allo, finally getting somewhere and SNAP you’re dead. You try again and you’re questing and now a psychotic mixpack has run you down and CRUNCH you’re dead. It can be really demoralising when you’re trying to make your way in the world but you get destroyed over and over until you switch off; unless you’re part of a massive group with various characters that would never be together, you’re getting nowhere. KOS after KOS even when you’re no threat.
2-at the opposite end, it’s a survival game and cat eats mouse and dog eats dog. If you’re a Sarco hiding alone on the shores waiting for the perfect opportunity to strike just like in real life, you take it and win, you’re on the receiving end of questions about your heritage and your mother’s fidelity. You’ve KOS’d but surely that’s part of the point of playing as an ambush predator?
For me I’ve always wanted roaming packs of AI herbivores that as a player you can attack as a carnivore or as herbi to join or lead (challenge for dominance) so that you’re so much more than foodstock to be picked off. Goals should include migration or stopping infirm, young and old falling behind. Otherwise small critters could be free roaming much as the fish are, and include small lone Dinos as well as existing creatures, and be some sport to hunt as juvenile or small predators. Then, the game is good whether you’re single player or multiplayer and doesn’t punish anyone for realism but also hopefully quells the trend of mixpackers killing everything and everyone on sight, whether they’re different or same species, a threat or just going about their own business.
Another feature that might be good and I have no idea of others offer this is going a step further with the weather and having periods of disaster such as volcanism, drought or flooding, maybe even strong winds that make it harder for some to get around with there being bonuses for players that weather the events better…
The biggest problem carnovores can't kill herbivores in POT
Instead of a survival game, maybe we could have other types of games (aside from fps ones). Kind of like Iggy’s Egg Adventure!
need me more battle arena games
I'm an owner of all the big 3. I don't feel the need to go out of my way to find or play new Dino games. Sometimes I'll check out some of the Roblox creature games that exist, but I don't think that a person like me or others like me who own 2 or all 3 of the big Dino games would really be interested in buying the newer, W.I.P. games. I think that you brought up very good points and I agree with all of them. I'm an example of somebody who is very comfortable where I'm at and don't really wish to move around. I also have Primal Carnage in my roster, but I don't find myself really playing it as much as I do with The Isle or PoT.
You talking about the big three, wile Ark is evil laughing in the background and put a spyglass out to see His little challengers better.
I believe they some people Should Not try to do another dinosaur Survivors game and instead focus on a different games type like a Fantasy Dinosarur RPG Game Like Fossil Fighters and Dinosarur King
Everyone seem to focus on dinosaur Survivors too much like I really missed dinosarur games like Fossil Fighters Dinosarur King even Battle of Giant Dinosarur was a Soild Fighting game to a degree
Had Wildcard not blue balled us with Ark: Primal Survival by choosing to make their game a sci fun alien RPG with dinosaurs, many dino sim games would have slogged. Ark has what we need. AI, maps, functional mechanics that can be rescripted for creature play, etc. The biggest one being AI that can be fought and hunted.
1:56 idk. I play Bob, PoT, and The Isle, I haven't got a favourite, although I wish BoB was less clunky and more immersive
The issues with Dino/ animal sim games has really nothing to do with the communities of these games being segmented between three major different games that define the genre. Its that they are waaay too simple in their execution of overall gameplay. Because yes walking around in a map as a big dino with other players who are also dinos is fun and novel for like 15 minutes. Until you realise that most of the time you spend your game time, doing basically fucking nothing thats in any way interesting in said maps until you find other players. The gameplay loop is just mind numbingly boring if I'm being 100% honest. There's a reason the most popular servers on these games tend to be pvp/hardcore roleplay servers with fast growth timers and fast times of interaction with other players.
The fact of the matter is that ALL of these animal sim games need to have much more, SMART A.I. running around in their game worlds to populate their servers. With different benefits they provide the players for either carnis or herbis. Where herbis can flock with certain A.I. dinos and gain passives that aid in combat/food gathering, etc. While carnis are tasked with gaining certain diets by hunting specific A.I. like they should for doing the same against players but albiet obviously providing less progression. To gain certain combat benifits with a healthy diet. To reward players for their actions in the game. In ways that feel natural and realistic. But these are just some personal ideas i have from having played a fair amount of these games.
The lack of player reward for our time spent in game is a major factor on why these games are failing. There isn't enough incentive to get good at these games and thats obviously a huge issue. A game can be a similation of something sure but if it wants to succeed as an actual product for the avarage person it also needs to provide the player with a tangible reason to play. Basically what i'm trying to say is there needs to be an actual GAME first, and then a simulation second.
Also I feel like a lot of the maps in these games as shocking as this going to sound could do with some major shrinkage especially if the goal is to have real people interacting with eachother on a regular basis. As cool as the big maps are in these games the fact of the matter is that they are just too large. A problem thats very apperent when there's nothing passively existing in these maps to make them feel populated and lived in. They have a lot of static geometry specled all around sure. But that doesn't help make the maps feel any less barren and devoid of any actual life. Visuals are cool sure, but they aren't the only important aspect of level design. There needs to be creatures roaming for players to encounter, there also needs to be events that can happen that let us the players shape the world around us in some tangible way that's memorable. Like for instence letting us move some things around in the game world. To create certain gameplay scenarios. Like let's say pushing a big rock or log off a ledge to cause a landslide or something. Or to hit other creatures to kill them, etc. These are just some suggestions that come to mind to me. But anyway what I'm tryinh to say is that a game world is basically nothing without inhabitants/ events to populate and help define it. Without these things it might as well be an empty void at the end of the day.
Should have mentioned that multi-player games should have npc and AI to fight while maintaining multi-player server drop in, drop out features
One of the biggest problems is the image dinosaurs and dinosaur games have. Their seen as directed toward kids and hence has created ad ridden (if their on mobile) poorly made, cash grabs and who would willingly play a game made to only take a kids parents money? Occasionally we get the good ones like the big three but the image of dinosaurs is tainted so much. There isn’t much you can do with dinosaur games either besides survival and multiplayer survival games have also been tainted. Think rust or ark having the people who put 110% of their day into the game just to wipe the newer players off the map and commonly their player base is seen as bottom of the barrel which redirects the players to either pve servers like ark servers or to not play the game entirely
Pangea survival ive played quite a few hours of... Its an alright game but the animations feel off.
I agree with all of this dinosaur survival games are very repetitive because when I try out new dinosaur game its the exact same playstyle as the isle and or path of Titans
In my opinion for people who want to make dinosaur games is don’t make dinosaur sim we have too many of them and honestly it’s getting redundant and it’s going to be a lot harder for your game to be recognized especially if you have a small team I’m not against dinosim if that’s what you want to make then more power to you but variety is always a good thing in games it also means you don’t have to compete with the big 3 and other million dinosim it also helps catch the eye of other people seeing something unique honestly I miss old dinosaur games like lost world dino crisis and others I want to see more Dino games like these
It's so devastating am gonna cry aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh btw velocci can u release a new mod vid citipati is in testing but still aaaaaaaaaaahhhh
Personally i can't agree with all of this really, but that may just be me, idk. I have checked out all 3 "big games" and i have my personal opinions on each of them. Each of them have something good, something bad, something better than the other, something worse than the other. And hence that's the case, i appreciate every game for how it is and don't compare it to the others too much. Imo none are "the better one" or smth like that. To that, i am always happy to try out new dinosaur games, especially the ones that isn't about shooting the dinosaurs down but playing as them. I always loved those types of games, and the more games for these with wonderful mechanics and communities, the better (imo).
Also gotta add: i especially wanna try new games cause i found out for myself that the games i already loved to play (The isle and Path of Titans) gets boring for me after a while. The Isle takes ages with actual updates, and PoT gets a bit more frustrating cause yea sure- mods are a thing, a frequent thing, but all modders really do is slam the newest op dino or mythical creature into the game. And not only does that give me crashing issues lmao but i also hate it cause things i personally love to play (sadly the smol little weak raptors) are just unplayable at this point. And no, i do not want to join the pile of new creature spammers and oneshit everything with my 8+ new abilities all over my keyboard.
But yea the multiplayer games with no active servsers or people in general in it are pretty sad. I wish there was a fix to that cause i honestly wanted to try out games like The Archotek Project or Animalia.
I feel like they gotta stop releasing new Dino’s and focus on working Ai Dino’s. Look at rainworld. You’re alone but the world feels filled with life cause of how the ai works
Great topic.
I’d say it’s a fair community take to feel with the history we have on the animal games that has recently been announced.
More then half dinosaur games have an open world, trees with extremely high polys with no LODs or culling setup, the performance is so bad 90% can’t play it unless you have an 2-3000$ computer.
What the animal game industries must be better on is finalise the game. Don’t do a half done open world, some trees & rocks and some simple animations & a paid Dinosaur from Fiverr so you can have a budget boost based on a 3 min video ad with some background sound.
This sounds rough. But this is the reality how most of these games are done. I generally don’t feel bad for these young developers. Im disappointed. ☕️
Damn Velocci why you gotta hit us with the “Dad’s not coming back” music, now I’m bawling
It’s like the old Minecraft Xbox version, the minigames were lively until most people moved on to other games, leaving people in servers with usually no players online as of now I believe
Not going to lie I loved Ark and got it for the dinos but more and more dlc that came out I hated that it became more and more alien robots. . . I would of loved Ark with dino only even when it wasn't realistic due to size, abilities, or realism but was willing to over look it due to story and dna manipulation. That and I mean who doesn't like a crafting survival game. . .
I think the biggest problem is trying to find food. I understand survival mode but you should be able to find food easier. I am sick of running around the map sniffing out a bunch of shit that leads to nothing.
I used to play the isle until I played PoT for the first time, then I occasionally tried going back to the isle but couldn't. I eventually got BoB, but felt it did t compare to either the isle or PoT...
i think more games need to be realised is a different style or genre like ancsetors or something else
I think this same thing happened to primal carnage, because i used to play the game years ago, i used to play it everyday, but then i stopped playing for a year, or two, and came back to see 3-5 servers with my least favorite game mode, team deathmatch and get to the chopper, i usually like free roam, and also had only 3 or 4 players, rip primal carnage 😢 🙏 Goodbye, for now...
Extinctions pretty ok still. Its development is in no way dead.
ok :D@@tearex8688
Here’s an idea for game creators to break into the big 3 BE ORIGINAL. Nobody has mad a mmo survival for ice age creatures yet. You could even through some stuff from the ploostiene era in there. Yeah I spelled it wrong lol
1:27 what about Ark & JW ?
Simple answer:
Dinosaur games require too much work on the game, especially since most of them are based on realism, and a small indie game can't handle all of that. most dinosaur survival games suck.
Same problem with community servers too unfortunately.
I'll tell you one reason. Some people are sick and tired of having to make every single dinosaur 100% accurate to a paper that came out 5 seconds ago.
i feel like this problem isnt talked about much, so cool that someone is adressing it lol
good job velocci!
Shiftyvee did it too
yeah pretty cool@@jurassic_hobbyonmyaltaccou3878
I think this is an issue because of a broader problem, the early access problem. Most indie games nowadays release in "early access" and players have been abused by this system so much that they're tired of keeping an open mind only to watch them game fail because players lose interest or the devs lose interest. Why buy an incomplete game on the promise of completion when you're already playing the same type of game that's done, or at least more complete than the new game.
This is very much the reason why I'm not touching any of these new games for a long time. Been burned too many times by pretty promises only for the games to never go where they wanted/said they would go. There's also not much that sets these games apart from one another at first glance. Just the regular old throw a bunch of completely random dinos/reptiles on a mostly tropical map. PoT subverts this a little but not by much. I'd be much more interested in a dino game that's set in colder climates and/or focuses on a specific time period and location like Saurian does. Or even better yet: why not a survival game focused on non-dino prehistoric life? There's an open niche there. I don't need another "big 3" copy.
We need more dinosaur games.
We don't need more dinosaur survival games.
Animal survival games in general do have alot of issues, but when it comes to the demand issue, yeah, that's certainly something mostly only relevant in dinosaur survival games: the demand for dinosaur survival has already been met multiple times and people have latched onto the games they play. Another 'issuue', from what I've seen, most animal survival issues relate to the playerbase: the amount of average players, how the community acts, what the community wants and how they react to what they get. The development of some games can be shifted by the feedback of its players, for better or worse.
There has been an oversaturation in savannah survival games imo which is a damn shame considering about none of them are really what I would want from a good survival game. I’d preffer the mechanics and map to be fleshed out before the models. I also think people have a tendency to neglect making herbivore gameplay fun when the game’s entire playability basically depends on it
The DbD community voiced similar concerns about their game and why all the upstart competitors keep failing. That game has even more of a monopoly on its genre than the dino survival games do because it was the only one to do it right for a while. At least for the dino survival games, we have healthy competition between PoT, BoB, and Isle so when one is ignoring its fanbase, many of them will shift over to another one with a different niche that they can tolerate. For instance, I shifted from the Isle to PoT because the Isle's development is too slow.
Ya as a former DBD player I understand this struggle more with dino games. Played DBD for 6 years off and on but finally left after the last 2 chapters came out. The devs ignored hacking and bugs to just push for monetary items but not fix their game. Granted the alien chapter has caught my eye but idk if it would be enough for me to come back.
I'm going back since alien is being introduced oh, check out the Texas chainsaw massacre game, it's a nice mix up from the same ole dbd
Same here, been playing since it came out on Xbox. I took a break for a couple years until Demogorgon came out, and i’ve been playing on and off. I moved to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and for now, its kind of casual-friendly.
The isle is very slow, too bad its significantly better and more realistic of an experience than pot.
The biggest problem I am seeing with these new games is they look very rushed and unfinished. The environment feels empty or stiff. the textures rough and glitchy. They want to compete so badly that they rush through the product and skip out on quality control to just have a product out there. Time is money, and if they put time into making a polished and emersive product, they may stand a better chance.
Guaranteed this is ark 2 on release with reused assets and rushed development.
That's what you get with cheap indie devs. Triple a devs won't ever make one cause money runs the world
I would like to see more small/new dinosaur games get some popularity because some of the major games in this genre have some issues that need to be resolved. Like The Isle; most or hopefully, all of us know that their devs are next to completely incompetent and toxic like no other. PoT is good, but them trying to make it an MMO specifically is really getting in their own way. Haven't really touched BoB. But my point is, I want to see if these newer games can maybe even "copy and paste" one of three, but also improve its flaws. Use different dinosaurs, etc.
This already one hidden gem called prior extinction that recently got updated, and although its on roblox, the devs really powered through and made it feel more like an official game, with more realistic models, and more balancing than stuff like path of titans, with a lot of new features, with more than 1K current players a day
@majungabunga Yeah I've tried Prior Extinction, its like it doesn't quite work on console.
@@greg_the_llama5022 Ah yeah, they arent prioritizing console yet really, sorry about that dude :/
@@greg_the_llama5022 But I still think what they are doing is better than the isle and pot, its basically saurian multiplayer
@@majungabunga that makes more sense now. Is there any way to reach out to the devs?
For me, the reason they are dying is becasue we are CONSTANTLY being shown and told about new dinos and features and then NOT receiving them and never being told about it ever again until it secretly and unknowingly get put into the game. And here's the kicker, 50% of the servers don't have the new mods. So it's IMPOSSIBLE to find out where the new stuff is at, and if you choose a server it takes 20 mintues to load the mods. For you to then join multiple servers that dont have the NEW features
This vid reminds me of ReaverJolts video on a very very similar topic.
I wanted to believe in saurian for example. I backed their game, I made a overview video that the developers themselves retweeted and everything, but unfortunately even after that one person ran off with a bunch of their money, they've never recovered.
I had high hopes for the game, but now after the development is taking years to release anything meaningful, I've essentially given up on it now.
A key element in these new survival games is offering something meaningful that the others don't provide. I've played The Isle and Path of Titans, so I can only speak to those two.
The Isle has more of a Jurassic Park feel, with the inclusion of man-made structures and seems to have humans in mind as playable in the future. The dinosaurs are more in line with the JP style, grow through a timed system, and can navigate via a scent system. They also have night vision, which in the pitch black of night can amp up the terror greatly.
Path of Titans is focused on a more realistic feel rather than JP horror. Its dinosaurs are a bit more customizable, having subspecies, and having an in-game currency that afford a variety of upgrades in skins, abilities, and home caves. Growth, and said currency, operate on a quest system which gives additional activity beyond just wandering and surviving. The game is also built to allow for mods, providing whole new possibilities for players.
Having an at least somewhat unique roster of playable dinosaurs can also work in the game's favor. Superstar dinos like T-Rex are all but required, it seems, but adding less utilized species that the other games don't have can be a boon, even if they occupy very similar niches.
It's important to note that player behavior can play a crucial role as well. One of my favorite episodes of South Park is Make Love, Not Warcraft, and it showcases wonderfully how toxic players can put a game's success at risk. On the flip side, I've also played Draconia, and while multiplayer doesn't have many people, it's one of the friendliest communities I've ever seen.
You did not just say path of titans that has currency and quest system for dinosaurs is more realistic than the isle
This genre is niche and that is the problem, there isn't much to expand from. Seems like all the starting devs do the same mistake: not enough content and the content they have is pretty much clone from one of the bigger games but can't deliver same quality models, map etc. I would love to see game that has creatures from devonian period, carboniferious period or permian period, those creatures were very interesting. And animal games have same problem, they are falling in same niche, all I see is present day animals that are from Africa, just give me frigging ice age animals to play as or try continent with different animals for crying out loud.
É uma pena que o The Isle não tenha para consoles. 😢 Quem sabe venha num futuro...
Its not as great as it looks. I know that feeling. I wanted to play it so desperatly and when i finally had it, i thought i wouldnt want to buy Path of Titans for PC again, (transfering accounts from mobile to PC didnt work back then) because i thought the Isle was better anyways. I was so wrong and only after 1 week i realised that i wanted to play Path of Titans again (and it didnt even have growth system or anything at that time). Yes the Isle is good and worth a buy, but it somehow looks cooler when others play it. I went through the same shit, trust me
The Isle can be interesting to watch. But gameplay is extremely boring in my opinion.
My two cents: dino games need to not be based on the same sort of thing. For example, the big three all started out as survival games, and still are. But BoB implemented and enhanced a detailed nesting system alongside a talent tree, and PoT allowed for mods, questing, and will have other game modes in the future, making both games different from The Isle. I feel like what new dino games need to do is be actively different. They can still fall into the survival genre, but instead of the basics, maybe you need to hunt a specific herbivore, or as that herbivore, you need to escape a specific carnivore. Protect X nest for Y time, or from Z dino. Just something that isn't the same grow, eat, drink, fight that all of the big three have in common. Heck, the whole reason Oakwood worked other than its price point was the fact it -wasn't- survival; it was horror, and it did that very well in spite of its graphics.
Except the core gameplay loop for the isle is almost perfect. I dont want an mmo and quests and shitty force fed time based shit that will get stale really quick, I want the isle with more dinos and more people. Nothing even comes close to the combat system in the isle from what I've played and seen so far.
@@dylancrosby2451 Might want to watch the video & read what I said again, as you seem to lack the context of what I was talking about. The question in the video was why do new dino games struggle. I gave an answer based on my experience and understanding. At no point in my response did I trash The Isle; I simply stated what I thought about the context of the video. If you want to argue about why you think The Isle is "perfect," you should find a better comment & video to start that conversation with, cause it sounds like you don't want new dino games at all based on this response to an opinion post.
Shiftyvee mentioned 🗣🔥
🗣🔥
I disagree, i think people get over excited for small and unfully games, cuz they want new content that bob, path of titans and mostly the isle take more time to release something
What?
@@kadita-legendarysevenspear4533 sorry i wrote excited wrong, i mesnt players get hyped for small games thst are unfinish and get frustated when its not what they expected
@jonashumberto5544 I agree with you, there can only be one best Dino game and others starting to try will have a very hard time.
@@jonashumberto5544 oh I see, yeah
The biggest thing that a new dino game needs to do to successfully compete is to offer something that the others dont. Like a create a dinosaur suite. I can guarantee that a lot of us want to create our own dinos like we did on paper and in Spore. It's easy to compete when you offer things that are unique to your company. That's why Long John Silver's was around for so long or why WWE keeps pumping out video games. They offer things that the competition doesn't. Yes, LJS was ran out of business because McDonald's now serves fish and 2K Sports had released an absolutely terrible game that made the company not release WWE 2k21. Bumps will happen. But it's always good to offer things that are unique. Think about the Isle and it's unique mutations
I don't think customisation will work, there are a great deal of players that enjoy a more realistic take on the dino sims genre. There are servers that enforce rules like herbivores not pursuing carnivores or players forming packs only with members of the same species.
Custom dinos (other then "skin" color) with mutations would be a very polarising feature, to the point that making a spore clone would yield a better outcome.
I think that the people that argue in favor of a solo experience with a more immersive world are on the right track, but that's my opinion
There's a super old Dino game for the DS that lets you customize your dino 😂 Used to play it tons! Then you used them to fight others, was so much fun
and not have multiplayer just go singler player with incredible NPC interactions
The problem with new dinosaur games, atleast imo is that they start off promising to be they're own thing but ultimately end up more or less just copying what The Isle did.
Nothing even comes close to the isle from what ive played. Pot looks like an mmo and doesn't seem very fun or realistic, like wow you collected flowers and shit, such great dino gameplay. Havent played bob though, but if that's more like the isle and not like pot ill probably play it eventually. Anything is better than the level 200 dodo birds from ark, I cant stand leveling systems in pvp games, especially ones that are supposed to emulate realism.
- I enjoy The Isle but it takes way too long to get into the real meat of the game(adulthood). If they just cut growing times in half, it'd be a much more enjoyable and less stressful game.
- Path of Titans is way too gamey with the silly quest system and switch out perk system. It feels more like an MMORPG than a survival game.
- Beasts of Bermuda isn't anywhere near the quality of the other two.
May I add:
- Isles of Yore, a visually stunning and beautiful game, but the game is empty because no one plays it because it is so empty and there are less playable dinos to play than what its competitors have
- Saurian is not even close to a finished game even though it has been developed for 6 years due to slow development and in terms of graphics and textures it has fallen behind and they are not up to date
- Historia, well this game was in development and crowdfunded but then disappeared a couple of years ago and we haven't heard from it since then and the game has not even been available at the Early Access
The issue with smaller games is that they're not really offering anything new, they are just copycats of copycats. Even the big 3 are constantly copying ideas from each other (for example, BoB had flight mechanics first, then Isle and PoT followed; or PoT had body collision first and the Isle followed). New games will not succeed unless they can offer something radically different that is not present in the big 3. PoT was late to the competition but managed to catch up thanks to having an unusual roster of species as well as being extremely mod-friendly.
I feel like there are so many single player dinosaur games where you play as the human. But.. like zero where you play as the other side. The only one I can think of is that Lost World PS1 game.
It could easily be done, maybe as a stealth game or even reverse-horror. But all the devs just make games where you're some person with a gun. The one's that do make games where you play as a dinosaur (heck, any animal or beast) just make them solely multiplayer.
They also never do a great job of making the dinosaurs feel unique with regards to combat. A Tyrannosaurus should be able to grab smaller creatures, a raptor should be able to pounce and grip.
The problem is the ‘big three’ are effectively empty battle sims, rather than survival.
The isle has very little npc Dino’s and they’re only small prey Dino’s. Path of titans has npcs you have to interact with a spawner to release and are just prey that run away from you. And dunno what the hell bob is doin.
Glad to see someone bring up multiplayer as a struggling point of Dino games, since even the big three just use it as an excuse to avoid content, or get sucked into trying to be a people pleaser (cough cough bob cough cough)
Something I want to see is a dino survival game thats solely singleplayer or at the very least has a singleplayer mode or campaign. It makes sure developers properly flesh out mechanics and their vision, because they can't just release a paid game with like 2 solo missions.
Not to mention that even the BIG 3 games have a LOT of problems that have to be resolved, and we don't know if they ever will. We are so used to games trying and failing, even the successful ones that we play, that people stopped believing to animal games actually implementing what they promise. It's impossible. And if you add the multiplayer problem, they are doomed. I really hope one day a small team with brain and no megalomania, will try to create a small game, with few but well thought and immersive mechanics. The mega projects, with hundreds of species and mechanics, with a totally free gameplay will NEVER work in this genre (unless you play for pvp and chaos).
Idk if there's too much to discuss here.
After one dino survival simulation game releases, all the others are going to be derivative unless their goal is to make something different.
The 'big 3' have enough substantial differences between them to allow them these top spots, but most other ones are either so derivative of them to the point of being so similar they're pretty much irrelevant, or just so different from the 'mmo dino survival' shtick that people who are into the genre don't really pay much attention to them.
We're talking a pretty niche 'market' here, so it's extra difficult.
This has gotten me thinking about my game i want to make. It would be about alien survival. I wanted to take elements from all the big three, while adding my own mechanics, making a functional, fun, and replayable single player mode, while also having key differences such as procedurally generated terrain, in game currency that doesn't require real money, co-op Multiplayer. RPG elements like npcs, shops, crafting, and building...
Hoping that this would be enough to make my game stand out from the big three enough to not have a comparison point.
Go for it. Never give up.
Reminds me slightly of Dinosaur Arcade. It’s on roblox but I have been having a blast with it, and the map is enjoyable
You need something that sets u apart from what's out there.
Wish I could check out all the new games. But I’m on PlayStation. Thankfully we at least have POT.
Just waiting for a survival game with modern animals (those games are a WIP) and of course dragon games, and survival games with their own creatures. Indie developers should take the survival simulator aspect but apply it to a different world/creatures, and stop riding off the dino craze.
Path of Titans, for example, hasn't had a real update since the beginning of the year, so it's only natural that players are leaving.
🤡
My favorite dinosaur game till this day is 'Primal Carnage'. If a game only offers survival as an objective, then the best way to not die is to not play. It just isn't my cup of tea to be constantly on edge during a walking simulator.
My point is, if a new dinosaur game is going to come out and be successful, it needs to not be trying to emulate the big 3 whatsoever. Instead, it needs to focus on more round-based gameplay instead of shared world gameplay, so that it isn't competing in the same niche.
Love primal carnage! Used to play it quite a bit back in the day
This video has made me realize how weird my opinions are! I play all of the big 3 and I play or want to play all of the big 3 consoles!
Ok this may get a lot of hate, but I think it needs to be said. A game is supposed to be fun. I don't care how much you funded a project on kickstarter, I don't care that you're in the Devs obscure Discord, if they're not working on the game overtime, do a charge back. They possess a responsibility. The point of a game is supposed to be fun. Having intriguing and good mechanics within a game is crucial, this isn't to say, realism shouldn't be implemented but it has its time in place. Just because something is nich doesn't make it good.
The reason the big 3 suffer so much is due to generic structure. Start out as boring juvenile, play it for a cumbersome amount of time before you mature. Oh look you need to watch out and manage hunger, stamina and thirst. As you walk on a mostly large empty map.
Time to praise the devs for adding another animal and doing bear minimum work.
You spitting facts
I like all of the dinosaur games, but my favorite must be path of titans, even tho i dont fight about who likes what, i only like path of titans, because its my first dinosaur survival game i ever played - not counting ark.
I just want a early cenozoic era mammals reptiles birds fish and the ice age aswell would be so awesome to play
There is a game on steam called The Cenozoic Era. It's still in development I think. I could be wrong though
@@venrix2049it sucks ass like really bad only one server with 200 players and no food
@@TheKingofCoral oh really? I haven't played it, just heard about it from another UA-cam video. Was under the impression it was early access
@@venrix2049 I think it is in early access but when the isle first came out like the progression days were leagues better honestly even path before gondwa was better it is so bad
@@TheKingofCoral oh geez. Thanks for the heads up
Another big problem with dinosaur games is outside of the big names (The Isle, Path of Titans, etc) a lot of them end up coming out looking like some cheap mobile game
The big three also looked like that when they were first released.
You made a lot of great points that I hadn't thought about before, Velocci. It's a sad situation. I don't like to see these developers struggle. I would love to see more dinosaur games out there but seems so much more difficult for developers to break through on this genre for all these reasons and more.
You touched on the cross-platform aspect and that point is incredibly important for me, at least. I got started on iOS and now play on Mac and Xbox so Path of Titans is my preferred and only dinosaur game [noting here that I prefer no humans and semi-realism aesthetics. Sorry 'bout that, Ark, Paleo Pines, etc.]
I appreciate how Alderon Games (Path of Titans) has tapped into the players of console, Switch, Mac, mobile, and more. PC players have had it pretty good and has left those players rather spoiled for choice at this point. It's probably going to be hard to beat the well-established PC-only games and the cross-platforming PoT if no other dinosaur games choose to implement cross-platform capabilities into their own development.
But I will admit (toward your first point) that even if the Isle or BoB (or even the single-player Saurian) or any of the new games were cross-platform, PoT is my ideal game. The game style is ideal since I can quest and don't feel obligated to PVP, no humans coming to the game (I've waited many years for a dinosaur game that isn't through from the perspective of a human hunter/exterminator), and the models and atmospheric elements look good enough to take pretty wallpaper screenshots (shallow as it seems, aesthetics matter for me here)! PLUS modding is giving me even more lovely dinosaurs and playables to take pictures of and hang out with my friends.
I'm not sure what elements would be needed for launching a new game that gets to be as played and favored as the big 3 in this genre but I hope that future developers in this genre (and even the current ones trying to stand out in the crowd) consider aiming for cross-platform. I can't help but think that it could help broaden their player-base opportunities. Despite not being a developer myself, I'm sure it is likely easier said than done. But if they could manage it, I expect it would help AT LEAST improve their odds of growing a community and thriving for the long haul.
Every dino game I play adds a new oc to my roster.
Ark gave me
-my rhyniognatha oc scarab
-my yutyrannus oc omega
-my my charcharodontosaurus oc dreadbought
-my dakotaraptor oc blade
Dinosaur arcade gave me
-my giganotosaurus oc bastion
Path of titans contributed to blade's design
Also when I get a gaming PC, path of titans and ark are the games I want to get the most.
Just lack of creativeness and realism. Life of a dinosaur wasn’t “collect 35 nuts”. It was find specific food, find water, watch for danger, find shelter, find a mate, guard the babys, find food for babies. Ai dinosaur mates would be a great addition in my opinion. Creating your own ai herd for your specific Dino. Finding your food water etc. Defending your territory and young from predators. Imagine migrating to the far side of the map for food and water bc your area is in the dry season. For a dinosaur game you need a massive map, bountiful ai, dangers lurking, and things to constantly do or avoid.
I don't get the mindset of just sticking to one game. Even though you play as dinosaurs in all of them, they each do something unique with them.
Have you ever heard about "for the hive"? Two developers who have been spending years on that game. It will be the first insect open world mmo and I'm super excited for it! It's not dinosaurs but it's something new and i think it's going to do very well.
If anything is pushing people from dino games its the toxicity that comes with playing them. Path for example is a solid game but the interactions with other players in global or party chat is too tribalistic to enjoy it.
It also sucks that any new dinosaur survival game that comes out will be super judged on what the dinosaurs do, their abilities, what you can do with the dinosaur youre playing as, how customizable it is, etc. It will be soley compared to one of the big 3.
A game developer would need to create a whole new system for a dinosaur survival game that none of the big 3 have. And that would be really hard to do. But it IS doable. I just hope there comes a time when there will be a game that takes everything from all 3 big dino games and implement it all into one game. The isles graphics, beasts of bermudas weather, skills tree, colors etc. Path of titans mods and fighting abilities and animations. Etc. It would be the ultimate game
The main issue is they compete for the sane niche. There's too many dino survival games. Best way for a new game to thrive is to walk away from survival and into different genres
here way i see it .....people need to get off their high horses and stop compairing a new game to old one and not let the new one have a chance.....people will disrepect a game till it is almost a mirror to the old one bur at that time they will disrespect the game cause it dont have new content and it not just dino games but any new game have this same up evil to deal with
Imagine if somebody made a dino game with AI, like a survival game, but with rpg elements like skill trees, levels, and have the skill tree basicly upgrade/ enhance your dino and their survival ability, say like movement buffs, less hunger, deeper attacks(more dmg) quieter sounds(stealth) so you can create dinos, your own way. And then just make appearnces of your dino either buyable cosmetics or ingame achievements for killing so and so or being alive for so long
There already is one. Beasts of Bermuda.
One thing that's strikes me from POT not lasting as its ruthless in learning curve. Problem being is the new comers trying to learn the point of the game. The mechanics of every dinosaur without being KOS by accomplished veterans. Young dinosaurs have zero chance as if they can't fight and are to slow to flee. A very harsh game to even grow a little. Private lobbies with AI Dinosaurs the player can learn without been bullied from the game before they really start to grow. Challenges of territories of dominant packs of species. Learning how to fight and when best to split. Multiplayer doesn't always have to be PVP to succeed especially when thrown in with day one players with fully grown perked up Dino's who know it of by heart. A mode as such with friends vs AI would definitely appeal to many as the PVP no killing lobby players a place to team up and enjoy. I agree the game needs far more content then collecting branches, acorns etc to work but it's something for the players who just can't compete with the death loss of growth respawn far far away from the group. It seriously needs different modes in PVP and definitely PVE even if it's still to its survival genre.
My problem is that there's barely any variety.
It's rather an Isle copy or broken hunting game, or Ark.
Honestly want a Platformer or a RPG dino game.
I do like how we're getting Horror games but only one I'm excited for because unlike others it's not going for the realistic look and instead going for PSOne visuals which looks really good.
New dino games should cater the attention of settled players by doing the obvious things the big three fail at. Beasts of Bermuda is terrible at everything except skills, Path of Titans is empty AI-wise, the Isle legacy is not being updated anymore while evrima is horribly underoptimized and glitchy. There are also more specific issues and generally bad features that can be easily fixed but developers prefer to focus on other stuff, like releasing new dinos rather than make their games more playable. New dino games should go for what the community needs, wants and the current devs are not giving anytime soon.
This isn't a problem. It's a normal thing in every aspect of life. From games to cars to foods. At the end of the day if you create a quality product, people will buy it. If a game comes along thats better than the "big 3", people will play it. Bring something new to the table.
Because the people making them either rush them or don’t bring any new interesting ideas for dinosaur games to the table? Lots of repetitive types of games being made when related to dinosaurs. Probably the most unique ones is a Pokémon like in the form of Fossil Fighters that basically got killed off in the 3rd game because they had to make it vehicle based and absolutely gutted the team making aspect of the game and Ark Survival evolved just for it really the biggest fully fledged dinosaur survival game out there that isn’t stuck in beta testing hell or relying on kickstarters for development costs. I’ve actually talked about an experimental idea for a dinosaur themed game that is a blend of survival and action shooter genre. Think of the titanfall 2 time travel segment of the game but make that the whole game and replace the past portion with becoming a dinosaur and having to manage need bars while figuring out mysteries. Think of it like two overarching stories that you have to figure out both of to end up solving how to get through the entire game. That’s the general idea but alas I don’t have any clue how to get the idea out there or how to run a development company. So this idea will be kept in the back of my head till I can get a solid monetary foundation to stand on.