Very unpopular opinion but I think the first 2 movements of this sonata are a great example of how to write without inspiration. And it would make sense because this sonata was written around the funeral march (the march was composed about 2 years prior to the rest) i.e. on "order" with the rest.
Maybe the playing is what makes you think this. Neuhaus said this piece was about a hero the birth of the hero is the first movement, the second his triumphs, the third the death, and the fourth is the wind blowing over his grave. KZ plays this like a Czerny etude
@@pablobear4241 Lizst, in his book on Chopin, says his sonatas (and concerti) are more a work of effort than inspiration. Being Chopin, he naturally made these movements very well finished, but I'm saying that it's written like an artist drawing painting with technique rather than with creativity
mvt 1 w: revolt against the death , 2 the hope , 3 funeral march 4 out of our planet , somewhere in the universe . This first sonata in the world of piano was written ten years before the death of Frederick ( Baleares ) ; it's what j think when j listen this colossal sonata , the first sonata in the history of the piano , more important than Lizst Sonata by expression in front the death : Philosophy sonata j don't known an other sonata for make a comparison .
Personally, I always found the last movement brilliant but weak, in the sense that seems out of step with the rest of the movements. It’s not my favourite - that, for me, would be the third.
such a shame that most of the audience was just there to say "I was at that concert".......without appreciating the pure soud and technic and profound investment Zimerman put in his rendition... Poor world we're living in that's for sure
Fun fact: the repeat sign in this version is actually incorrect, due to the double bar line written after bar 4 being misread as a repeat sign in the original manuscript. The correct version has it repeating from bar 1, resolving the A-flat dominant chord to the beginning note of D-flat.
Well - it is a fact that is contested - but the evidence is not conclusive - particularly as so many variant versions of Chopin's works existed - many clearly originating with Chopin himself - who continually tinkered with many of his major pieces. Never-the-less I think that the piece is either better without the repeat - or as you assert, including the Grave.
french : Le signe de reprise dans cette version est en fait incorrect, en raison de la double barre de mesure écrite après la mesure 4 qui a été mal interprétée comme un signe de reprise dans le manuscrit original. La version correcte le fait répéter à partir de la mesure 1, en résolvant l’accord de dominante en la bémol jusqu’à la première note de ré bémol.
@@schubertuk french : Eh bien, c’est un fait qui est contesté, mais les preuves ne sont pas concluantes, d’autant plus qu’il existait de nombreuses versions variantes des œuvres de Chopin - dont beaucoup provenaient clairement de Chopin lui-même - qui a continuellement bricolé nombre de ses pièces majeures. Néanmoins, je pense que la pièce est soi meilleure sans la répétition - ou, comme vous l’affirmez, y compris la Grave.
@@1947laurence are you trying to show off? Your reply implies you are responding to my 'English' post, but you have chosen to not respond in kind? I'd love to understand your reply, but I'll leave that to you.
Such a shame that Zimerman was taken aback by negative press coverage that he abandoned his project on Szymanowski and Chopin Sonatas back in the 2010's. It would be a marvellous recording were it finished.
@@kuba550 in 2010-2012 Zimerman was working on his series of recordings of works by Polish composers (Chopin, Szymanowski, and one undisclosed composer [Bacewicz, perhaps?]). But around that time, he was allegedly attacked by two Polish newspapers and such incident "poisoned the atmosphere" that Zimerman withdrew from the project.
The repeat of the exposition in the first movement begins from the Grave, not m. 5. The double dots at “Doppio movimento” (an instruction that Zimerman ignores) are spurious - they were added by the editor of the first German edition.
Zimmerman sound great as always but i dont know much about him as far listening to his works....this Sonata has been a benchmark for many Great pianists....Horowizt and Arthur Rubinstein version of this Sonata are Legendary
it's nutso how he captures the feeling after the funeral lol. you process all your feelings with everyone, you're making awful miserable sense of things, you're carrying everyone through, you're being strong, you said the right words, you held up your friends, you mostly held it together, they held you together, you get home, you close the door, and they're still gone and nothing makes sense and you live in crazy land for a really long time. Those days are the worst, where the next logical step is to go back to real life and your heart is just taking a big step on a broken leg and it's just a really stupid idea
The dynamics in some editions are different in this area. I suspect Zimerman used the Paderewski edition because it has a crescendo marking instead of piano and decresendo.
I’ll have to check out other recordings of this piece. Is the final movement usually played so fast? Without the notation, I would be completely disoriented in the blizzard of notes. Even WITH notation, I find it difficult to place myself within the beat, and get a coherent sense of harmonic rhythm.
I think with the 4th movement, it's not really about the beat or harmonic structure/rhythm, but instead a sound that describes the image of the piece. To me, it sounds like the howling winds of a graveyard ;)
It was written for unequal temperment as opposed to equal temperment used since the mid to late 19th century. There's an interesting comparison of the last 2 mvmts played both ways. Check it out. To me it was revelatory with the last mvmt finally making sense. Here's the you tube link: ua-cam.com/video/hgA1-I5MfNY/v-deo.htmlsi=hUw35a157DmhnUYk
Which came first? Chopin’s so-called Hades prelude (Op 28 No 16) or this sonata? Because the eight bars of both of the pieces’ main themes have an identical chord progression and identical rhythm in (respectively) the left and right hands. It’s why I feel that the Hades prelude would make a great alternative finale to the 2nd sonata.
Rachmaninoffs recording of chopin sonata 2 is amazing, the raging 3rd movement and the voicings of the 4th movement. Absolute gold recording of a great pianist!
@@MrHullU about philosophy op35-2 is the first in historical-piano : revolt hope funeral q view after death ; it's no only musicality with op35-2 but above beautiful piano , j don't see similar sonata ( for me )
Do you mean Michelangeli? He has multiple versions posted on youtube. The one he performed in London 59 has to be my favorite ;D Theres something about the performance that creates a story, almost spooky-like. To me, it really reminds me of death, the sadness, and a funeral!
Incredibly great sound quality. Thanks for sharing this great recording!
So happy now we have a scored version of this, it gets taken down all the time.
Μaybe the best interpretation of this sonata ever! And live!
No, no, and no !!!!
Chopin is The master of movement, 🔥🔥🌡️
17:17 that one kid with their CASIO watch
dam, u have godly hearing
Naaaah thats some godly hearing
insane
Thank you for sharing this performance
I❤chopin. Thank U😊
ほぼ50年後のツアーを聴いてからの…。マエストロの素晴らしい演奏に、目も眩みそうたが、各ムーブメントごと、それぞれ１つの小品として成立する、革新的な構成のソナタであると、認識する、完璧な演奏である。27歳のマエストロらしい、力強く陰影を表現し、ショパンの時代・世界へと、心をわしすかみにして、連れて行く。昨年９月まだ未解決です、とコメントされていたが、一番シンプルな型をオーソライズした、50年後の演奏でした。是非とも、1984年も令和５年も、両方CD録音を残して下さい。最近、バラード１番をバイオリン🎻ソナタに編曲して、演奏されていましたが、このソナタも、当初期待されていた、個性の表現を競うソナタとして、世界にひろがり、マエストロの芸術家としての評価の証明となります。職人魂で解決した楽譜解釈、ブラームス、ラフマニノフなど、ピアノ表現の可能性を楽器そのものまで拡げた功績は、明確です。60周年記念を楽しみにしています。
Incredible !!!
Yes, incredibly brutal ! What's the point in breaking a keyboard to pieces ?
Very unpopular opinion but I think the first 2 movements of this sonata are a great example of how to write without inspiration. And it would make sense because this sonata was written around the funeral march (the march was composed about 2 years prior to the rest) i.e. on "order" with the rest.
Maybe the playing is what makes you think this.
Neuhaus said this piece was about a hero the birth of the hero is the first movement, the second his triumphs, the third the death, and the fourth is the wind blowing over his grave.
KZ plays this like a Czerny etude
@@pablobear4241 Lizst, in his book on Chopin, says his sonatas (and concerti) are more a work of effort than inspiration. Being Chopin, he naturally made these movements very well finished, but I'm saying that it's written like an artist drawing painting with technique rather than with creativity
mvt 1 w: revolt against the death , 2 the hope , 3 funeral march 4 out of our planet , somewhere in the universe . This first sonata in the world of piano was written ten years before the death of Frederick ( Baleares ) ; it's what j think when j listen this colossal sonata , the first sonata in the history of the piano , more important than Lizst Sonata by expression in front the death : Philosophy sonata j don't known an other sonata for make a comparison .
@@alainspiteri502 very nice, I like it
Personally, I always found the last movement brilliant but weak, in the sense that seems out of step with the rest of the movements. It’s not my favourite - that, for me, would be the third.
FUNERAL MARCH at 15:00
05:06
Beginning sounded like a sequel to fantaisie impromptu
such a shame that most of the audience was just there to say "I was at that concert".......without appreciating the pure soud and technic and profound investment Zimerman put in his rendition...
Poor world we're living in that's for sure
How do you know that??
@@ilovecats581 unfortunately we live in a world of « showing » don’t need any proof
What?
I think you're complaining about the coughs and I understand that.
@@ilovecats581 because I happen to experience it unfortunately…..
Chopin should write this in A minor.
Five b is too much for reading
You could have it transposed by MuseScore
I prefer 5 Bs than 5 #s....😅
Fun fact: the repeat sign in this version is actually incorrect, due to the double bar line written after bar 4 being misread as a repeat sign in the original manuscript. The correct version has it repeating from bar 1, resolving the A-flat dominant chord to the beginning note of D-flat.
Well - it is a fact that is contested - but the evidence is not conclusive - particularly as so many variant versions of Chopin's works existed - many clearly originating with Chopin himself - who continually tinkered with many of his major pieces. Never-the-less I think that the piece is either better without the repeat - or as you assert, including the Grave.
french : Le signe de reprise dans cette version est en fait incorrect, en raison de la double barre de mesure écrite après la mesure 4 qui a été mal interprétée comme un signe de reprise dans le manuscrit original. La version correcte le fait répéter à partir de la mesure 1, en résolvant l’accord de dominante en la bémol jusqu’à la première note de ré bémol.
@@schubertuk french :
Eh bien, c’est un fait qui est contesté, mais les preuves ne sont pas concluantes, d’autant plus qu’il existait de nombreuses versions variantes des œuvres de Chopin - dont beaucoup provenaient clairement de Chopin lui-même - qui a continuellement bricolé nombre de ses pièces majeures. Néanmoins, je pense que la pièce est soi meilleure sans la répétition - ou, comme vous l’affirmez, y compris la Grave.
@@1947laurence are you trying to show off? Your reply implies you are responding to my 'English' post, but you have chosen to not respond in kind? I'd love to understand your reply, but I'll leave that to you.
@@schubertuk I have only translated your comment into French
It's amazing that such a gorgeous melody can be realized with just one piano.... and this is the reason that I like Chopin
The piano is the only instrument that allows extraordinary wonders to be performed
Such a shame that Zimerman was taken aback by negative press coverage that he abandoned his project on Szymanowski and Chopin Sonatas back in the 2010's. It would be a marvellous recording were it finished.
Where did you hear about the bad press?
What project? Can you say more about it?
@@kuba550 in 2010-2012 Zimerman was working on his series of recordings of works by Polish composers (Chopin, Szymanowski, and one undisclosed composer [Bacewicz, perhaps?]). But around that time, he was allegedly attacked by two Polish newspapers and such incident "poisoned the atmosphere" that Zimerman withdrew from the project.
@@FrostDirt thanks, didn't know that
Why did they attacked him?
3:59 such an overwhelming melody
A great piece, very difficult but with a beautiful melody all thru it.. Zimmerman at his best....marvellous!!!.
Chopins music plumbs the depths of the soul. One of the great works played beautifully by Zimmerman. Thanks for making this available.
SPETTACOLARE !!! MERAVIGLIA DELLE MERAVIGLIE ....GRANDE ZIMERMAN
His sense of form in the Marche Funèbre is astonishing… What an incredible performance!
Because UA-cam doesn't have enough of Zimmerman playing Chopin 😂.
NEVER ENOUGH
The repeat of the exposition in the first movement begins from the Grave, not m. 5. The double dots at “Doppio movimento” (an instruction that Zimerman ignores) are spurious - they were added by the editor of the first German edition.
The third movement is one of the greatest achievements by Chopin.
Zimmerman sound great as always but i dont know much about him as far listening to his works....this Sonata has been a benchmark for many Great pianists....Horowizt and Arthur Rubinstein version of this Sonata are Legendary
Your channel should be called ZimermanScores
The first time a recording makes sense
it's nutso how he captures the feeling after the funeral lol. you process all your feelings with everyone, you're making awful miserable sense of things, you're carrying everyone through, you're being strong, you said the right words, you held up your friends, you mostly held it together, they held you together, you get home, you close the door, and they're still gone and nothing makes sense and you live in crazy land for a really long time. Those days are the worst, where the next logical step is to go back to real life and your heart is just taking a big step on a broken leg and it's just a really stupid idea
5:43 Zimerman totally neglects the dynamics
The dynamics in some editions are different in this area. I suspect Zimerman used the Paderewski edition because it has a crescendo marking instead of piano and decresendo.
Based
Цимерман игнорирует тихие нюансы, но мне это нравится. Мне тоже эти места хочется играть громко.
Incredible! Bravo! I hope we post more. Looking forward to it. 💚✨
#Kohya Suechika #Music
I’ll have to check out other recordings of this piece. Is the final movement usually played so fast? Without the notation, I would be completely disoriented in the blizzard of notes. Even WITH notation, I find it difficult to place myself within the beat, and get a coherent sense of harmonic rhythm.
I think with the 4th movement, it's not really about the beat or harmonic structure/rhythm, but instead a sound that describes the image of the piece. To me, it sounds like the howling winds of a graveyard ;)
It was written for unequal temperment as opposed to equal temperment used since the mid to late 19th century. There's an interesting comparison of the last 2 mvmts played both ways. Check it out. To me it was revelatory with the last mvmt finally making sense. Here's the you tube link: ua-cam.com/video/hgA1-I5MfNY/v-deo.htmlsi=hUw35a157DmhnUYk
It seems to me that the fourth movement is a brilliant depiction of entropy!
I love your videos! I hope you post more
Looking forward to it!😍
上手ですね🐒🥺
Which came first? Chopin’s so-called Hades prelude (Op 28 No 16) or this sonata? Because the eight bars of both of the pieces’ main themes have an identical chord progression and identical rhythm in (respectively) the left and right hands. It’s why I feel that the Hades prelude would make a great alternative finale to the 2nd sonata.
There is also some similarity with his prelude op 28 no 14 and 4th part of this sonata.
@@danissimo9852 yes, the E flat minor prelude that only lasts some forty seconds right?
17:07
Bravo!!!
❤❤❤
Класс
😮😮🎉🎉😂❤😂😮😊😊😊😅😮😢🎉🎉😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😂😂😂🎉🎉😢😢😮😮😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😮😮😮😮😮😢😢😢😢😢🎉🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤
For me 1) Rachmaninov ( 1930 original not piano-roll ) also Aschkenazy , true history of the man in front of the death .
Rachmaninoffs recording of chopin sonata 2 is amazing, the raging 3rd movement and the voicings of the 4th movement. Absolute gold recording of a great pianist!
@@MrHullU about philosophy op35-2 is the first in historical-piano : revolt hope funeral q view after death ; it's no only musicality with op35-2 but above beautiful piano , j don't see similar sonata ( for me )
It's great!! Fantastic!! Can you do Michelangi ?? it's even better 😅😆
Do you mean Michelangeli? He has multiple versions posted on youtube. The one he performed in London 59 has to be my favorite ;D Theres something about the performance that creates a story, almost spooky-like. To me, it really reminds me of death, the sadness, and a funeral!