Loving all the "RUN WUT YA BRUNG" and "these ain't Outlaws" comments on today's show. Thanks for admitting to everyone you haven't paid attention to the sport in several decades. 🤣🤣
COME ON…The turned up exhaust has around 20 ft pounds of thrust to keep those 900 HP SMALL BLOCK CHEVYS from lifting those front tires and doing wheelies in the turns ..! Hard to steer if tires aint touching…! What’s Larson gunna do now ? 🤦🏻♂️🤔🏁
My buddy had a desert race car that had "dune buggy" headers on it that looked boat headers with O2 ports in each. I told him we should put a couple of 18mm spark plugs in them with a plug wire running to a hidden location & that if we won a race, the next race EVERYBODY would have spark plugs in their exhaust. Psyching out the competition is part of the game. Several NHRA Pro Stock drag racers used to hide everything from view, not necessarily because they were cheating, but to keep everybody guessing as to why they were sucessful! A lot of monkey see, monkey do shit in racing!
Danny and Billy Dietrich actually talked about the turned up headers in a video earlier in the offseason (i think it was a video about the new High Limit Rules) and they mentioned some safety concerns and i think they even mentioned they expected WOO to ban them. I think one of their main points was that it kind of blocks the cockpit and theyre very hot, causing problems with safety workers being able to attend to a driver in a crash
They should be worried about making a fire blanket that can be drapped across that area that can be deployed to shield drivers and safety for extraction. Especially considering fluids getting on those areas flash making it considerably harder to get drivers out. It would serve multiple purposes to shield safety crews from the hot exhaust and also act as a shield for flash fires occurring from fluids being spilled. Something similarly shaped like an engine blanket but specifically to wrap in a way that can be thrown over and drapped around the exit point.
I kind of like how the SuperDIRT Modified series does it -- random draw for which "heat" you are in, you are only time trialing against the other guys in your heat. It is fairer since everyone is on the track at roughly the same time. (They also do group qualifying, but we won't go there.)
well for a new one yes but many many use older rebuilt engines, but saving a little here a little there its all relative to topic, 1000 dollers for a car cheap, 1000 for a bottle of whisky or a steak expensive, 20 dollers for a bottle of wine resonable, 20 for a can of beer expensive.
Slight downforce to running headers pointing up. Top fuel cars have multiple angle headers for a larger gain than what’s happening with an N.A. sprint car. So it does compute in my mind.
You are 100% correct. The ONLY thing turning the headers up will accomplish is keeping the 1500 degree exhaust gases from heating up & softening the tread on the rear tires & decreasing tire life.
It was more about traveling & racing everywhere & "robbing" the locals of their track's $$$$! WOO has had rules since day 1. They had to institute weight rules for car & driver, along with rods, pistons & wrist pins to try to keep the costs down by outlawing "Exotic materials" that are stupid expensive. 40 years ago, a set of Carillo rods was under $1,000. The same set in titanium was $3,000. Now, a set of TD rocker arms is $2500, & Ross pistons & pins are $2500
I guess I was fooled into thinking Larson was winning on his skills. It was fun to watch while it lasted but now he’ll probably never win again. Bummer
It was snowing good in Las Cruces this morning, 20 miles from Vado, was not expecting this 😭 I got faith for tomorrow though, the track is doing Free Admission tomorrow, I was excited for tonight.
the thing about the fuel cell breaking away is i can see it being a good thing as well. for the driver that is obviously they are doing thst for other competitors and fans
Light the turned up headers been around for a long time just like mention it keeps your headers go straight back they're pointing right towards the tires so yes it it it it affects the tires
The turned up exhaust/muffler isn't a recent innovation and they have been used in sprintcar racing and midget racing at various times over the latest 40 years. These types of exhaust/muffuers were common on sprintcars in the 90s when Rodeck Engines and Donovan Engines used this type of exhaust configurations on their motors. The Rodeck and Donovan 410 engines were popular at the time in New Zealand and most sprintcars at that time had a upturned exhaust/muffler. The same applied to midget cars more so the Pontiac, Cosworth and Gaerte Engines used in the 90s. These upturned exhaust/muffler systems are banned in New Zealand under Speedway New Zealand regulations for two reasons one being noise. Speedway in New Zealand operates under noise control regulations and decibel levels. Mufflers under Speedway New Zealand regulations must be designed to suppress engine noise and meet a set decibel level. The second reason is the most important and that's for safety reasons. A modern sprintcar and midget are very different now days with carbon body panels and arm guards used as aero dynamic aids. Gone are the days of a driver being able to remove themselves or be removed via other areas of the car. All drivers now enter and exit a sprintcar via one point and thats the open left hand side were the headers and exhaust run along that side of the engine bank and headers. The right hand side of the car is protected by a carbon panel arm guard. Their is no protection on the open left hand side of the car unless you install a full carbon panel over this area. Some chassis manufacturers do and some drivers out of preference will cover this area with a carbon panel. Brad Sweet and the KKR team are an example with the Maxim Chassis having a carbon panel covering the left hand side with Brad Sweet enclosed within the cockpit. A modern Midget car is pretty much fully covered with carbon panels these days including the left hand side of the car as driver can enter or exit via the top of the cage (unless you run a hoop across the top of the cage and chassis bracing) or via the left hand side. In a sprintcar with a top wing, you don't have any other option. If you have an upturned exhaust pointing upwards and the throttle sticks the engine will emit a flame from out of the exhaust straight into the path of a driver existing the car or a safety worker removing the driver on the left hand side of the car.
Personally, I wish winged sprints had a fixed wing rule (not a big $ saver per say). But guessing where to set the wing for laps 25-30 would add to driver-crew chief strategy. Just a thought, opinions welcome, no need to hate.
@speedybuilds2878 Possibly. But you still have to have your initial set up right anyway at that level (does this track most always take rubber? Will there be any cushion left?)
@@planestrainsandautos Gotcha. Maybe because I'm a bit of a dinosaur (in my mid 60s) & appreciate the non wing Silver Crown cars on dirt mile & half mile guessing the set up for 100 miles & burning off over 200lbs of fuel, lol. Love it all: Midgets at Chili Bowl or Eldora, non wing at Knoxville (having to lift & steer with throttle more-so than wing), Silver Crown & Late models going 50-100 laps & the fastest on dirt...winged sprints
@mikelyons2831 I'm in western PA, almost no wingless sprints except some extremely local, budget classes. Wish there were more, but they've just never been popular in this neck of the woods.
On the off chance you read this and want to discuss the topic I'd like to bring something up Justin. It seems to me there are more and more instances of very young drivers in some of the big time classes, where even seasoned experienced grown men sometimes struggle to keep things safe. These kids often cause major problems and all too often do things that get others cars torn up and sometimes they or others get injured due to their immaturity and inexperience. Should the minimum driver age be a topic of discussion at least?
eh the powers that be always have to spoil the fun but I understand, its like the icing the kicker in football with the timeouts they wait right till snap and call timeout to throw off the kicker and the headers well why its not like it has enough pressure to put any sort of downforce on the car, and wouldn't it increase backpressure cutting into performance I dont know, maybe he was on it something but I know that when you introduce a bend it interups the flow or gases or fluids, thats why one theory in steam engine piping design was to straighten the pipes that lead to the pistons that would drive the wheels, and back pressure on one of those takes away power that the pressure could have used to drive the wheels and devices since it then has to fight it trying to push the old colder steam though the exaust and usually to blast pipe which shoots it up though the stack with the combustion exaust of coal, oil or wood most often, or if it has a second set of drive wheels to the larger low pressure cyclinders before then exuasting. as for results, um thats kyle larson, a semi young but already ledgendary driver piloting the car thats why it did as well as it did, I dont think the headers have much to do with it.
I like the exhaust rule. Having pointed up is a safety deal. Flames come out and they can bend in a crash and burn the driver. And being it’s not a competitive advantage why put yourself in a situation to get burned or trapped in a car?
The problem is that when WOO started, nobody had all the expensive stuff they run today. Guys were still running cast iron stock block engines & "double hump" heads. WOO started seriously regulating things when the exotic materials became the rage 30 or so years ago. Titanium & unobtanium parts, etc. They were trying to even things out so that it wasn't only the bucks up teams winning. A friend owned a car that won a shit ton of big races in 1988. I asked him how they did that year. Hie answer was "We only lost $85,000!" That's a load of $$$$ in 1988. Well known AZ engine builder, Tom Klein, said in the mid 80s that "racing is a rich man's sport that every poor s.o.b. wants to be involved in." & in reference to WOO, "Everybody cheats. You can't pass anybody with a 410 inch engine!"
It was NEVER "run what ya brung". WOO had rules from day 1, but EVERYBODY cheated so NOBODY complained nor protested. Well known AZ engine builder, Tom Kleln told me "Ya can't pass anybody with a 410!"
Well then I would run a longer pipe after the collector and put a turn down on the end and angle it toward the center of the car the theory is to keep the heat off the tires
We used to have to run the pipe to the center of the rear axle and turn down towards the track to be legal at Golden gate in 1981 to keep epa off the tracks butt cause people moved in around the track and started complaining about the noise so It can be done
That exhaust rule is the dumbest rule the Outlaws have ever come up with! There is no proven advantage or disadvantage of using turned up exhausts. Reminds me of the old days with Karl Kinser. He would try different things just to mess with the other teams.
there are some advantages to it being turned up. i dont get why the outlaws get the hate when pretty much every track and other sanction goes by the same rules. theres very few rules that differ across the country from the outlaws to local tracks. thats why you can go run a 410 pretty much anywhere in the country.
My guess is it's a safety issue if crash crews are responding to an incident and need to get in near the driver. I know in New Zealand some of our classes tried something similar and it got outlawed and stated that the exhaust must not exit by the drivers window because of the hazards to track crews. You could imagine if someone crashed bad and needed medical assistance or needed to be cut out of the car, that an upturned exhaust would be much harder to work around than your standard exhaust. Not every rule is an advantage/disadvantage reasoning.
No! The exhaust heat up the tires without the turn-ups. It doesn't affect stagger because they have pressure relief valves but it does affect the rubber by softening it & increasing wear
just don't get the headers rule. Paul Silvia is well known for recycled parts and tires, probably just surplus from the eighties. World of outlaws proving why another series was necessary.
Do the exhaust elbows pose a safety issue? 2 elbows per car can't really cost too much can they (really!)? And let's not forget the #1 rule of Paul Silva - we don't talk about Paul Silva.
My question has always been Why are local tracks following the rules of a series that only runs in their area a couple times a year? Local tracks need to configure rules to decrease cost to make sure 410 sprint car racing has a future.
There is NO way to "decrease the cost" of racing! LOL Somebody will ALWAYS spend more $$$$$ to make cheating harder to detect! 1 of the Crower kids told me, 30 years ago at the Copper World at PIR, that after WOO made the no titanium rods rule that Crower simply "metal sprayed" the titanium rods to make them pass magnet test. A couple years later, WOO put minimum weight rules into effect for rods, pistons & wrist pins!
@bradgriffith4231 My message was for local racing. When WOO teams spend 75k for motors it has already destroyed any chance for the average local racers to compete. As far as the weight rule that is a joke it should be much heavier. Race cars from the 70s and 80s the cars weighed more and it was even better racing. WOO rules do nothing for low budget teams. Local tracks need to do what is best for there area whether it is weight, engines or tires.
@@AK-zw1re I doubt WOO teams are spending $75,000 on an engine. IF they are, then engine builders are fucking them to death. My buddy owns the quickest Olds in the country. He builds his own engines. This small block Oldsmobile engine started with a set of raw casting heads & a blueprint. His heads were probably somewhere in the $10,000 range after paying for the machining & porting. He has about $20,000 invested plus his time in the entire engine. It makes 850hp on gas with 1, Pro Systems carb. Standardized rules make it easy for the "local guys" to compete & they usually do very well on their home track. Amatuer racers who race once a week in the summer are never going to be on par as drivers with guys who race several nights per week & then in Australia in the winter. It's all about practice & personel. Like in most every activity, practice makes perfect. Talent & practice wins races, NOT truck loads of $$$$!
Don’t even want to hear about cost. When it takes 5 to 7 thousand a race just to unload and you run for 12 to win and 1500 to start, I don’t think cost is the issue.
I wish you guys would come up with more creative trolling. I thought you were better than this. If you're going to hide behind anonymous accounts, at least don't waste your time on lazy comments like this.
This kind of nit-picking bs is how they slowly kill the sport. Turned up exhaust is really where they drew the line? I would have to know what part of doing that is seen as being unfair or is seen as an advancement so unfair that other's could not do the same without serious financial impact. Are they claiming the turned up exhaust is a safety hazard?
Turned up is Austin's nothing new looking back in the day of great car counts 100 plus at Chico in 80's and 90s the old super traps we ran back then they didn't have a problem way back then.
WOO ruling themselves out. Anyone can turn up a header and it costs nothing but the time to cut it and weld it. Its why WOOs technology never advances. Adding a rule against it makes it seem like it was cheating. If anything, if it does make the car handle better, then it makes it just that much more safer. Same for cockpit adj shocks.. makes it handle better and safer.
Woo just dont get it and this is just another thing to add to the list on how they want no innovation anymore and they want everybody running the same exact shit like the old IROC series which leads to more Parades and makes things boring, but this is what they do which is continually dull the sport to make it shit and gone are the days of people thinking outside the walmart sprintcar store that Woo wants every driver shopping at and running the same everything leading to follow the leader shitshows. Everybody is the same meaning at the start of a feature if Macedo switched cars with Gravel without people knowing none of you would be able to tell the difference because everyone's that equal which is why the features are front two rows dominate with winners and 99.9% of heats are won off the fromt row just stale/boring and repetitive
A lot of "innovations" are nothing more than "do nothing devices" put on leading cars to sell shit to other racers convinced that they are losing because they haven't bought the latest and greatest do nothing device and joined the header of the month club. Meanwhile....the fast keep getting faster because they can actually drive, and have great setups by doing more testing than you. They got the wiz bang parts for free and spent money on track rental....you continue to stay slow because you're trying to compete in the absolute shitiest game of "keeping up with the Jones' by spending your budget on bullshit parts rather than what would actually make you faster.
Highly disagree with your opinion on allowing more innovation on these cars “that have effectively been the same for decades.” They’re already faster than ever and it’s almost impossible for anyone to compete at this level without being born rich. Which is drastically different then the sprint car racing of old. If anything the interest should be keeping costs controlled more in an effort to keep more people involved with less money instead of less people involveded with more money.
theyve been the same for a long time. the only difference is the shocks, and more downforce. if they would take away all the downforce stuff it would make the racing so much better.
I personally love that innovation is limited in sprint cars. Look at what innovation did to NASCAR. It’s cool that the baddest cars at the track are the most simple.
I actually disagree with you on this one. Keeping rules tight and limiting what teams can do is what keeps sprint car racing amazing. Leave innovation to the late model guys. Sprint cars are just tube frames with a 410 and that's what makes it amazing.
Loving all the "RUN WUT YA BRUNG" and "these ain't Outlaws" comments on today's show. Thanks for admitting to everyone you haven't paid attention to the sport in several decades. 🤣🤣
The Indy 500 used to be that way
Turned up exhaust (mostly Supertraps) were the standard in the 80's.
@@frankbruegger9094 I’ve got pictures from a Gold Cup @ Chico Ca nearly everyone had them.
Silva is probably laughing his ass off,
I wonder what he’ll come up with this year to mess with everybody.
I wouldn't be surprised if Silva was doing it to take away attention from something else he was doing to the car
COME ON…The turned up exhaust has around 20 ft pounds of thrust to keep those 900 HP SMALL BLOCK CHEVYS from lifting those front tires and doing wheelies in the turns ..! Hard to steer if tires aint touching…! What’s Larson gunna do now ? 🤦🏻♂️🤔🏁
@@Hotrodclassic win with out turned up headers.
@@werxed7289 kidding aside thats the answer i was looking for…!!!!! 😂🤣🏁
My buddy had a desert race car that had "dune buggy" headers on it that looked boat headers with O2 ports in each. I told him we should put a couple of 18mm spark plugs in them with a plug wire running to a hidden location & that if we won a race, the next race EVERYBODY would have spark plugs in their exhaust. Psyching out the competition is part of the game. Several NHRA Pro Stock drag racers used to hide everything from view, not necessarily because they were cheating, but to keep everybody guessing as to why they were sucessful! A lot of monkey see, monkey do shit in racing!
Danny and Billy Dietrich actually talked about the turned up headers in a video earlier in the offseason (i think it was a video about the new High Limit Rules) and they mentioned some safety concerns and i think they even mentioned they expected WOO to ban them. I think one of their main points was that it kind of blocks the cockpit and theyre very hot, causing problems with safety workers being able to attend to a driver in a crash
Bingo
They should be worried about making a fire blanket that can be drapped across that area that can be deployed to shield drivers and safety for extraction. Especially considering fluids getting on those areas flash making it considerably harder to get drivers out. It would serve multiple purposes to shield safety crews from the hot exhaust and also act as a shield for flash fires occurring from fluids being spilled. Something similarly shaped like an engine blanket but specifically to wrap in a way that can be thrown over and drapped around the exit point.
I kind of like how the SuperDIRT Modified series does it -- random draw for which "heat" you are in, you are only time trialing against the other guys in your heat. It is fairer since everyone is on the track at roughly the same time. (They also do group qualifying, but we won't go there.)
I also like time trials against your heat race group.
When you're talking 70k+ for a 410 sprint engine alone, using the phrase "keeping the cost down" just seems redundant.
It's actually oxymoronic.... like jumbo shrimp
@@zepplinrox3perfect analogy
well for a new one yes but many many use older rebuilt engines, but saving a little here a little there its all relative to topic, 1000 dollers for a car cheap, 1000 for a bottle of whisky or a steak expensive, 20 dollers for a bottle of wine resonable, 20 for a can of beer expensive.
A spec 410 engine affordable would help level the field and increase the number of drivers and teams.
@@chuckg6039I agree. Spec racing is always the best racing. Let the driver make the difference.
Lol I think the headers had nothing to do with young money winning.
DON'T RUIN MY FUN JOSHUA
@@DIRTRACKRAfter I-55 and Knoxville, Silva definitely lives in the heads of other crew chiefs
Keeps the heat off the rear shocks
Slight downforce to running headers pointing up. Top fuel cars have multiple angle headers for a larger gain than what’s happening with an N.A. sprint car. So it does compute in my mind.
You are 100% correct. The ONLY thing turning the headers up will accomplish is keeping the 1500 degree exhaust gases from heating up & softening the tread on the rear tires & decreasing tire life.
Everytime racing organizations put a rule in to "keep costs down" teams spend more money to get around said rule.
'OUTLAWS' RUN WHAT YA BRUNG !!!! ain't that how it all started ???
It was more about traveling & racing everywhere & "robbing" the locals of their track's $$$$! WOO has had rules since day 1. They had to institute weight rules for car & driver, along with rods, pistons & wrist pins to try to keep the costs down by outlawing "Exotic materials" that are stupid expensive. 40 years ago, a set of Carillo rods was under $1,000. The same set in titanium was $3,000. Now, a set of TD rocker arms is $2500, & Ross pistons & pins are $2500
Tuned up headers were the rage with super trap mufflers in the 80's
Very informative sir I do appreciate your work.
I think it would be great of Paul Silva kept the turn ups for High Limit.
I guess I was fooled into thinking Larson was winning on his skills. It was fun to watch while it lasted but now he’ll probably never win again. Bummer
More rules = less innovation. We even talk about it down at the go kart level.
The header rule is a new low for WRG
It was snowing good in Las Cruces this morning, 20 miles from Vado, was not expecting this 😭 I got faith for tomorrow though, the track is doing Free Admission tomorrow, I was excited for tonight.
the thing about the fuel cell breaking away is i can see it being a good thing as well. for the driver that is obviously they are doing thst for other competitors and fans
Light the turned up headers been around for a long time just like mention it keeps your headers go straight back they're pointing right towards the tires so yes it it it it affects the tires
Dang… and I was hoping they’d allow piezo injectors in the turned up collectors. Now that would be Mad Max level excitement.
World of Outlaws too many goddamn rules
Yeah what's "outlaw" about it?
The turned up exhaust/muffler isn't a recent innovation and they have been used in sprintcar racing and midget racing at various times over the latest 40 years. These types of exhaust/muffuers were common on sprintcars in the 90s when Rodeck Engines and Donovan Engines used this type of exhaust configurations on their motors. The Rodeck and Donovan 410 engines were popular at the time in New Zealand and most sprintcars at that time had a upturned exhaust/muffler.
The same applied to midget cars more so the Pontiac, Cosworth and Gaerte Engines used in the 90s.
These upturned exhaust/muffler systems are banned in New Zealand under Speedway New Zealand regulations for two reasons one being noise. Speedway in New Zealand operates under noise control regulations and decibel levels.
Mufflers under Speedway New Zealand regulations must be designed to suppress engine noise and meet a set decibel level.
The second reason is the most important and that's for safety reasons.
A modern sprintcar and midget are very different now days with carbon body panels and arm guards used as aero dynamic aids. Gone are the days of a driver being able to remove themselves or be removed via other areas of the car.
All drivers now enter and exit a sprintcar via one point and thats the open left hand side were the headers and exhaust run along that side of the engine bank and headers. The right hand side of the car is protected by a carbon panel arm guard. Their is no protection on the open left hand side of the car unless you install a full carbon panel over this area. Some chassis manufacturers do and some drivers out of preference will cover this area with a carbon panel. Brad Sweet and the KKR team are an example with the Maxim Chassis having a carbon panel covering the left hand side with Brad Sweet enclosed within the cockpit.
A modern Midget car is pretty much fully covered with carbon panels these days including the left hand side of the car as driver can enter or exit via the top of the cage (unless you run a hoop across the top of the cage and chassis bracing) or via the left hand side.
In a sprintcar with a top wing, you don't have any other option.
If you have an upturned exhaust pointing upwards and the throttle sticks the engine will emit a flame from out of the exhaust straight into the path of a driver existing the car or a safety worker removing the driver on the left hand side of the car.
if the throttle sticks no ones going to be trying to get out.
Honestly, the cars remaining largely unchanged is one of the things I love about sprint car racing.
Exactly.
Outlaw class should have very few rules,other than safety rules. Basic rules only.
And then, only the teams with the most $$$$$ would win!
Personally, I wish winged sprints had a fixed wing rule (not a big $ saver per say). But guessing where to set the wing for laps 25-30 would add to driver-crew chief strategy. Just a thought, opinions welcome, no need to hate.
I'd be afraid that it would make the races less competitive as you got deeper into the lap count.
@speedybuilds2878 Possibly. But you still have to have your initial set up right anyway at that level (does this track most always take rubber? Will there be any cushion left?)
@mikelyons2831 I guess, from a spectator's perspective, I just don't see the upside of a fixed wing.
@@planestrainsandautos Gotcha. Maybe because I'm a bit of a dinosaur (in my mid 60s) & appreciate the non wing Silver Crown cars on dirt mile & half mile guessing the set up for 100 miles & burning off over 200lbs of fuel, lol.
Love it all: Midgets at Chili Bowl or Eldora, non wing at Knoxville (having to lift & steer with throttle more-so than wing), Silver Crown & Late models going 50-100 laps & the fastest on dirt...winged sprints
@mikelyons2831 I'm in western PA, almost no wingless sprints except some extremely local, budget classes. Wish there were more, but they've just never been popular in this neck of the woods.
On the off chance you read this and want to discuss the topic I'd like to bring something up Justin. It seems to me there are more and more instances of very young drivers in some of the big time classes, where even seasoned experienced grown men sometimes struggle to keep things safe. These kids often cause major problems and all too often do things that get others cars torn up and sometimes they or others get injured due to their immaturity and inexperience. Should the minimum driver age be a topic of discussion at least?
They gotta learn somewhere. "Little" Al Unser was successfully driving a sprint car when he was 14
Hey Justin any news on who will drive the Hoffman USSC sprint car this year
Hahahhaha they will do anything to try and make sure Larson doesn't win i hope he dominates this season
Mount an elbow 1/8" behind the header
Just have all the tubes turn out and then a short collector
eh the powers that be always have to spoil the fun but I understand, its like the icing the kicker in football with the timeouts they wait right till snap and call timeout to throw off the kicker and the headers well why its not like it has enough pressure to put any sort of downforce on the car, and wouldn't it increase backpressure cutting into performance I dont know, maybe he was on it something but I know that when you introduce a bend it interups the flow or gases or fluids, thats why one theory in steam engine piping design was to straighten the pipes that lead to the pistons that would drive the wheels, and back pressure on one of those takes away power that the pressure could have used to drive the wheels and devices since it then has to fight it trying to push the old colder steam though the exaust and usually to blast pipe which shoots it up though the stack with the combustion exaust of coal, oil or wood most often, or if it has a second set of drive wheels to the larger low pressure cyclinders before then exuasting.
as for results, um thats kyle larson, a semi young but already ledgendary driver piloting the car thats why it did as well as it did, I dont think the headers have much to do with it.
it creates a low pressure area under the wing, keeps some heat off of the tires and shocks. so yea it does have some performance advantage to it.
@@nickmanning3307 ah using it for venturie effect
I like the exhaust rule. Having pointed up is a safety deal. Flames come out and they can bend in a crash and burn the driver. And being it’s not a competitive advantage why put yourself in a situation to get burned or trapped in a car?
WoO used to be run what you bring and hope you bring enough. I’d like to see us lean back that way. Great show!
The problem is that when WOO started, nobody had all the expensive stuff they run today. Guys were still running cast iron stock block engines & "double hump" heads. WOO started seriously regulating things when the exotic materials became the rage 30 or so years ago. Titanium & unobtanium parts, etc. They were trying to even things out so that it wasn't only the bucks up teams winning. A friend owned a car that won a shit ton of big races in 1988. I asked him how they did that year. Hie answer was "We only lost $85,000!" That's a load of $$$$ in 1988. Well known AZ engine builder, Tom Klein, said in the mid 80s that "racing is a rich man's sport that every poor s.o.b. wants to be involved in." & in reference to WOO, "Everybody cheats. You can't pass anybody with a 410 inch engine!"
It was NEVER "run what ya brung". WOO had rules from day 1, but EVERYBODY cheated so NOBODY complained nor protested. Well known AZ engine builder, Tom Kleln told me "Ya can't pass anybody with a 410!"
Well then I would run a longer pipe after the collector and put a turn down on the end and angle it toward the center of the car the theory is to keep the heat off the tires
No place to run a longer collector & collector length affects the power band of the engine.
We used to have to run the pipe to the center of the rear axle and turn down towards the track to be legal at Golden gate in 1981 to keep epa off the tracks butt cause people moved in around the track and started complaining about the noise so It can be done
That exhaust rule is the dumbest rule the Outlaws have ever come up with! There is no proven advantage or disadvantage of using turned up exhausts. Reminds me of the old days with Karl Kinser. He would try different things just to mess with the other teams.
there are some advantages to it being turned up. i dont get why the outlaws get the hate when pretty much every track and other sanction goes by the same rules. theres very few rules that differ across the country from the outlaws to local tracks. thats why you can go run a 410 pretty much anywhere in the country.
@@nickmanning3307 well said !!
My guess is it's a safety issue if crash crews are responding to an incident and need to get in near the driver. I know in New Zealand some of our classes tried something similar and it got outlawed and stated that the exhaust must not exit by the drivers window because of the hazards to track crews. You could imagine if someone crashed bad and needed medical assistance or needed to be cut out of the car, that an upturned exhaust would be much harder to work around than your standard exhaust. Not every rule is an advantage/disadvantage reasoning.
@@NathanM4A1very good point
I would think the turn up would be on the right side if it actually worked 🤣
Just make the "body panel " defect the exhaust.... no it isn't a wing they used to use at the cheaters day in sioux falls.. it is an exhaust defuser😁
So the dirt gets blown of the tires into the driver?
No! The exhaust heat up the tires without the turn-ups. It doesn't affect stagger because they have pressure relief valves but it does affect the rubber by softening it & increasing wear
just don't get the headers rule. Paul Silvia is well known for recycled parts and tires, probably just surplus from the eighties. World of outlaws proving why another series was necessary.
Hey WoO, whatever happened to "Run Watcha Brung"??
@@karaburch7611 did they ever claim that? They have limits on engines, wings, tires, body panels, etc
Do the exhaust elbows pose a safety issue? 2 elbows per car can't really cost too much can they (really!)? And let's not forget the #1 rule of Paul Silva - we don't talk about Paul Silva.
My question has always been
Why are local tracks following the rules of a series that only runs in their area a couple times a year?
Local tracks need to configure rules to decrease cost to make sure 410 sprint car racing has a future.
There is NO way to "decrease the cost" of racing! LOL Somebody will ALWAYS spend more $$$$$ to make cheating harder to detect! 1 of the Crower kids told me, 30 years ago at the Copper World at PIR, that after WOO made the no titanium rods rule that Crower simply "metal sprayed" the titanium rods to make them pass magnet test. A couple years later, WOO put minimum weight rules into effect for rods, pistons & wrist pins!
@bradgriffith4231 My message was for local racing. When WOO teams spend 75k for motors it has already destroyed any chance for the average local racers to compete. As far as the weight rule that is a joke it should be much heavier. Race cars from the 70s and 80s the cars weighed more and it was even better racing. WOO rules do nothing for low budget teams.
Local tracks need to do what is best for there area whether it is weight, engines or tires.
@@AK-zw1re I doubt WOO teams are spending $75,000 on an engine. IF they are, then engine builders are fucking them to death. My buddy owns the quickest Olds in the country. He builds his own engines. This small block Oldsmobile engine started with a set of raw casting heads & a blueprint. His heads were probably somewhere in the $10,000 range after paying for the machining & porting. He has about $20,000 invested plus his time in the entire engine. It makes 850hp on gas with 1, Pro Systems carb. Standardized rules make it easy for the "local guys" to compete & they usually do very well on their home track. Amatuer racers who race once a week in the summer are never going to be on par as drivers with guys who race several nights per week & then in Australia in the winter. It's all about practice & personel. Like in most every activity, practice makes perfect. Talent & practice wins races, NOT truck loads of $$$$!
that exhaust rule is stupid the outlaws allowed the in the 80s with super trapp mufflers
Build a roll cage around the fuel cell that would keep the fuel cell in the car
Not sure how you enforce the Boyles rule to be honest.
Don’t even want to hear about cost. When it takes 5 to 7 thousand a race just to unload and you run for 12 to win and 1500 to start, I don’t think cost is the issue.
It's never the issue. 75% of the time, new rules end up costing more money if anything.
Amusing how many rules there are for what is supposed to be "Outlaw" sprint cars........probably have more rules than USAC
👍
Of course you don’t agree that they shut down your golden boy Silva 😂😂😂
I wish you guys would come up with more creative trolling. I thought you were better than this. If you're going to hide behind anonymous accounts, at least don't waste your time on lazy comments like this.
Didn’t Larson/Silva not even make the Kings Royal? Maybe his headers aren’t so special after all.
He put them on the car after that.
This kind of nit-picking bs is how they slowly kill the sport. Turned up exhaust is really where they drew the line? I would have to know what part of doing that is seen as being unfair or is seen as an advancement so unfair that other's could not do the same without serious financial impact. Are they claiming the turned up exhaust is a safety hazard?
ever think it could have something to do with noise? seeing how more tracks are constantly battling with neighbors over the noise.
World of Outlaws more like world of rules,who cares if cars have turned up mufflers, smokey would find a way around the rules !
Outlaws should not have rules only for safety
Are we NASCAR
or The World of Outlaws????
Turned up is Austin's nothing new looking back in the day of great car counts 100 plus at Chico in 80's and 90s the old super traps we ran back then they didn't have a problem way back then.
WOO ruling themselves out. Anyone can turn up a header and it costs nothing but the time to cut it and weld it. Its why WOOs technology never advances. Adding a rule against it makes it seem like it was cheating. If anything, if it does make the car handle better, then it makes it just that much more safer. Same for cockpit adj shocks.. makes it handle better and safer.
Fuel cells coming off aren't anything new in the world of sprint car racing...
Kyle
Woo just dont get it and this is just another thing to add to the list on how they want no innovation anymore and they want everybody running the same exact shit like the old IROC series which leads to more Parades and makes things boring, but this is what they do which is continually dull the sport to make it shit and gone are the days of people thinking outside the walmart sprintcar store that Woo wants every driver shopping at and running the same everything leading to follow the leader shitshows.
Everybody is the same meaning at the start of a feature if Macedo switched cars with Gravel without people knowing none of you would be able to tell the difference because everyone's that equal which is why the features are front two rows dominate with winners and 99.9% of heats are won off the fromt row just stale/boring and repetitive
They won't have to worry about it once the Sprint car start running electric motors
World of outlaws ??? Not even close, lol, more like the world of law abiding
citizens ... Jmo
The turned up headers sounded like trash on the track.
A lot of "innovations" are nothing more than "do nothing devices" put on leading cars to sell shit to other racers convinced that they are losing because they haven't bought the latest and greatest do nothing device and joined the header of the month club.
Meanwhile....the fast keep getting faster because they can actually drive, and have great setups by doing more testing than you. They got the wiz bang parts for free and spent money on track rental....you continue to stay slow because you're trying to compete in the absolute shitiest game of "keeping up with the Jones' by spending your budget on bullshit parts rather than what would actually make you faster.
Highly disagree with your opinion on allowing more innovation on these cars “that have effectively been the same for decades.” They’re already faster than ever and it’s almost impossible for anyone to compete at this level without being born rich. Which is drastically different then the sprint car racing of old. If anything the interest should be keeping costs controlled more in an effort to keep more people involved with less money instead of less people involveded with more money.
theyve been the same for a long time. the only difference is the shocks, and more downforce. if they would take away all the downforce stuff it would make the racing so much better.
@@nickmanning3307 I would much rather see a "Sprint Car" race over an "Outlaw" show. Wings SUCK! Real Sprint Cars don't have wings!
I personally love that innovation is limited in sprint cars. Look at what innovation did to NASCAR. It’s cool that the baddest cars at the track are the most simple.
NASCAR is not Innovation. It's mandated rules by NASCAR. Innovation was the creating force in NASCAR
I actually disagree with you on this one. Keeping rules tight and limiting what teams can do is what keeps sprint car racing amazing. Leave innovation to the late model guys. Sprint cars are just tube frames with a 410 and that's what makes it amazing.