Instead of Traditionalist Leader it should say TRADITIONALIST BISHOP. In fact EVERY catholic should be a Traditionalist, because ideally we all try to follow and live by the Sacred Tradition of our Catholic Church.
@@davidstanton3174 a Zionist satanists have infiltrated every group world over. Wakeup lipservers to Jesus and Mary. About fellay less said the better. He is FRANKY's man. His henchmen promote Frankie everywhere as Franciscus..... Hohoho. Wake up again brainwashed zombies. You are no worse off than V2 Zombies. Hahaha.
God bless and grant Bishop Bernard Fellay many years! He is serving what is true and only wants the best for the Church, not to split it. I hope the bishops and cardinals in the Vatican will recognise them as soon as possible, we need what the SSPX does!
+Kralperri Fellay is totally a traitor to archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. His Lordship left specific instrucctions as to when back to Rome. It was a total mistake to leave this mole to take over the SSPX. The new SSPX is a totally new concoction that has nothing to do with Catholic Tradition. Judas Fellay has accepted the new protestant Mass, he fell in the mouse trap of Ratzinger. Shame on this sellout.
@@ixtoc999 wow! Great! Only the Holy Ghost inspired person can speak thus. Messrs. Couture & Co., should wake up. Otherwise, their state will be like Ratzinger's today. Not even a priest wants to shake his hand. Hahaha. Hehehe. Curse of God on such traitors to Christ and Mother Mary. God bless you bro/sis.
"We cleave, with all our heart and with all our soul, to Catholic Rome, the guardian of the Catholic Faith and of the traditions necessary for the maintenance of that Faith and to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth. On the other hand we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of the neo-Protestant trend clearly manifested throughout the Second Vatican Council and later, in all the reforms born of it." Archbishop Lefebvre to the Seminary Professors & students 21/11/ 1974.
JuanMaria2012 I love this quote filled with hope and authentic joy in Christ, even during then what was theretofore an unfathomable tempest. Lefebvre will be canonized and I pray for the people who claim to be members of Our Church, but are severed from the Body of Christ by their free will and internal assent to heresy even unto apostasy, and this is demonstrably true for many people who scattered fruitless seeds and laid waste to our vineyard. Christ is still King, though. The heel of the Virgin should also assure us of victory in Christ and remember that despite dire prophecies that should be taken quite seriously, the purpose of prophecy is to effect a change in humanity by individuals using free will to follow Christ in His Church...No Catholic of sincere faith and properly educated conscience thinks Francis is a good pope or that the New Mass is a good thing, for they are wolves like Michael Voris who has dressed as a lamb to manipulate poor Alice von Hildebrand to contradict her husband and Voris will do anything to gain attention and a sense of strength by picking on others who have a hard enough time as it is.
These priests of the SSPX hold much in the credit of retaining the Church's tradition! Many have failed to see and understand this. The Holy Father was very fond of Bishop Lefebvre. He was the founder of the Holy Ghost Fathers and he opened opened up schools and missions throughout the third world countries spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. We should hope for such good and holy priests who re commited to Saving Souls!
The Church before Vatican II had evolved and the Church in 1962 was not the same as the Church of 100 AD. So Vatican II helped establish the Church's existence in the modern world without losing her apostolicity and authority. So our Church is indeed dynamic.
@John M Phiri...can't agree with you more. Although I can say that the SSPX are composed of pious members, they are disobedient and are not humble. Why can't the parishioner participate in the mass, the mass the Lord gifted us and in the Eucharist HE specifically asked for us to participate in to remember Him...what is so wrong with that? No question that the Latin mass is beautiful, buut so is the current mass....I don't understand the stubborness of the SSPX, 3 Popes have already reached out to them, Pope Benedict removed their ex-communication already & Pope Francis too has been trying to dialogue with them, but they are all too proud.
I believe you've misunderstood Bishop Fellay. He is not a politician, rather, he is orthodox and measured and balanced. He works within the parameters of the Second Vatican Council while finding it extraordinarily difficult to reconcile with Tradition. Privately, he may wish it could be just thrown out, but he understands that it never will be because it's a valid Council, as the SSPX officially maintains, though pastoral in nature and ambiguously written.
A shame to see the trolls have already arrived to spout their rubbish and ignorance, we should pray for them! I hope the normalisation proceeds well and as for those shouting traitor, how exactly? The Archbishop made it clear that being Roman was an essential part of being catholic and if we can be normalised with Rome and keep the faith, how can we say no? That would be schismatic
I think it would be a good idea for Bishop Fellay to send out a newsletter concerning this matter and exactly what is going on with Rome, etc. It seems many are confused and concerned.
But the conciliar church teaches that there IS salvation outside the Church,not only by baptism of desire, but also BY MEANS of the "ecclesial communities." Wouldn't that apply to we, poor traditionalists also?
That is the unfortunate truth. The new mass is a protestantisation of the Mass of Ages, that was admitted by Abp. Bugnini, the architect of the Novus Ordo. This was done directly by the wishes of Paul VI which makes the whole thing worse. But, it is in no way related to the Council since the rite of Paul VI was only promulgated in 1970 whereas Vatican II had been concluded by 1965.
We owe Bishop Fellay our respect and prayers. But we must be alert and prepared at all times for the devil seeks to devour the good. In our times and with the prophecies of Our Lady we cannot expect Bishop Fellay to have some special ability to cleanse the Catholic Church. No. The Church belongs to God and it has got to the point in which God Himself will cleanse His Church. God have mercy on us on that day!
I'd also like to stress that one reason Bishop Fellay may appear to be glossing over the contentious nature of the Vatican II is because he has faith in the supernatural nature of the Church, as he made clear in the recent letter he wrote to the other three Bishops. He fully believes that the gates of hell will not prevail, and that the Holy Ghost will work all of this out if the Society only stays faithful and fights for Tradition. We needn't worry about things which we have no power over.
"Valid council" is ambiguous in itself. The SSPX also maintains that the Novus Ordo is, in its originally promulgated form, "valid" also, but that does not mean that they don't unhesitatingly desire it to be condemned and suppressed. Vatican II, not defining any dogmas and having no parts endowed with extraordinary infallibility was, simply, fallible. And it did err, in a few points. (Not simply mere bad wording.) The SSPX has always maintained this, and it is now being resolutely glossed over.
846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation... He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. continued
A spokesman for the Vatican just published an article about the SSPX , and said that the two documents SSPX complains about are not "doctrinal". Two paragraphs later, they say it is the teaching of the magisterium and must be taken seriously. In other words, it's doctrinal. What does it mean when they say in one paragraph that it is not doctrinal, and in the next paragraph, that it is doctrinal? It means that no matter what you say, you will be right!
I think you need to learn to respect religious life. Bishop Fellay is an amazing soul and leader. I agree Bishop Williamson made a huge mistake. However, who is without sin? Don't point fingers unless your soul is without sin. Trying to make the right decision for the glory of God and the salvation of souls is very hard. Bishop Fellay needs our prayers. He has mine and I hope that you will pray for him, too.
The purpose of a Traditonal Catholic is to adhere to the Magisterium of the Faith. That faith which has endured for a full 2,000 years. To receive the Sacraments from validly ordained Catholic Priests who hear Confessions (Sacrament of Penance not Reconciliation), and who are working to save the souls of their penitents. To spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to be the example to a world gone mad with sin. Just to live in peace as examples of Piety, Holiness and to gain Heaven. et al.
William Thomas Walsh received a B.A. fromYale University in 1913, and a honorary Litt.D. from Fordham University. He wrote no less than 16 books from 1910 to 1948, treating on such subjects as "The Spanish Inquisition", Philip II of Spain, Saint Teresa of Avila, Isabella of Spain, and Our Lady of Fatima. You are reading slanted history. The fact that Dominic Guzman, or Saint Dominic, was monitoring the Inquisition, gave it the balance it needed to prescribe Mercy and not vengeance.
I pray for a union between the SSPX and Rome. The SSPX has a lot to offer the present day church and we'd be blessed to have them reunite with us. +AMGD+
His bishops were forced to come out publicly with their opposition because he refused to consider the thinking of the majority, he was madder than hell. Yet, he's smiling? Why is he smiling? Shouldn't he be upset? Isn't it natural to be upset. Yet, he's smiling. What an actor!
Vatican Council II is not a break with the past unless implicit salvation mentioned in the text, is assumed to be explicit and known in 2012. Archbishop Gerhard Muller's recent statement could suggest that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) has tracked the 'missing link' responsible for heretical interpretations of Vatican Council II.He seems to have detected the primary cause of Vatican Council II being considered a break with the past.
While I don't agree with your stand on the Vatican, I do have a question. Wouldn't the union of the Vatican and the SSPX bring greater holiness to the Vatican?
There is no going back. This is clear.The post-conciliar church is now fixed in its ways, its new theology, its liturgy. If you truly believe that Francis validly governs the Roman Church, your should humbly follow not only what he and the bishops grudgingly permit (the various indults),, but what they enthusiastically embrace as the "new springtime."
Quite the contrary, I believe they will be a voice that will be listened to. It would have been better if they had accepted Pope Bennedict 16ths offer, as it now will be harder under Pope Francis.
They can seek canonical status knowing that the Council indicates that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II ) (2), that all the members of Christian communities are also oriented to Hell without Catholic Faith (Ad Gentes 7) and though non Catholics are physically free they have a moral obligation, to enter the Catholic Church... continued
"We have never wished to belong to this system that calls itself the Conciliar Church and defines itself with the Novus Ordo "Mass" and with an oecumenism that leads to Indifferentism and the laicization of all society. We have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi."
We don't enjoy "turmoil or consternation". But we want the Truth. What did we Trads fight for all these years? Our posterity needs the Truth that saves,no counterfeit. We fought and sacrificed for integral Catholicism, sometimes at great cost to ourselves and our families. We were the object of scorn and vilification. Now we are to sell out to an unrepentant Vatican establishment, more disorderd and alienated from the Roman Tradition than it was 50 years ago? I don't think so!!!!
The Council no where contradicts Fr.Leonard Feeney's understanding of the dogma on exclusive salvation. If the cardinal who issued the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston assumed that invincible ignorance etc were exceptions to the dogma, he made a mistake. The Letter does not explicitly say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy.One has to imply it - and just about every one is doing just this!
The difference btwn the SSPX bishops and the others is that SSPX members hold on to holiness and TRADITION, while MANY in the mo dern church hold on to NOVELTIES. THATS IT! In a nutshell and there's no pt; in arguing! It is what it is!
I am afraid SSPX, sooner or later, would be crushed and digested by the conciliar church like a crispy corn fritter. That would be a great loss, because SSPX represents the largest force in the Traditionalist movement. I would grieve to see SSPX priests forced to celebrate the new mass, or adopt disfigured doctrinal models in their public role as teachers of the faithful. Let's hope they ride out this storm and remain the "loyal opposition"--outside the confines of the Vatican.
The Council is infallible because it was convoked at an Ecumenical level, thus invoking the ordinary authority of the Magisterium which is de facto infallible. It is true that it was not a dogmatic council, yet it was pastoral and through this it transmitted doctrine. We must accept it as valid because if it is not, then the Popes and subsequent bishops who signed the Conciliar documents have acted without the authority of the successors of the apostles and are still without their authority.
Actually no, only the ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, it is entirely questionable whether the council belongs to that, so you are begging the question. I notice you have not responded to any of my points, perhaps because you have no answer?
Be that as it may, (and I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Council erring, time will tell as the Holy Ghost enables the Church to sort all of this out), why would you suggest that the entire Council should be thrown out if, say, 95% of it is compatible with Catholic orthodoxy? In my opinion, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum, is actually helpful and necessary, and clarifies some things *against* modernism, such as the infallibility of Sacred Scripture.
Civility by all means. And prayer for those lost in a haze of confusion.That being said, we can never succumb to the Subjectivistic notion that FEELING one is right makes one right. The truth is not about feeling. This is especially so concerning the Truths of the Faith. We are confronted by issues of both doctrinal purity and praxis. An uncritical, supine attitude towards ecclesiastical figures is precisely how so many were spirited on board the "ship of fools", called Vatican II!
but we can apply some correnctions or notes to the text of the vatican II and give the traditional interpretation, and then we can do our own thing with the r mass and traditional church and let the novus ordo do their thing at the end we will win more and more ppl bc we have the true faith we just need not to be persecuted but we cannot be schismatics otherwise we would be damned bc there is no salus outside the church
I respectfully disagree with you. Sometimes I wonder if people who think as you do enjoy the turmoil, consternation and ever present discord amongst 'traditionalist Catholics, and who fail to realise that constant attacks and slander really only does the devils work. You would be better to simply pray for the guidance of Almighty God for Bishop Fellay (who I am confident) also realizes he constantly needs that guidance.
Sounds to me like the "three bishops" are being much more faithful to their holy founder than Bishop Fellay's naive optimism. Look at the FSSP, Campos, Bon Pasteur, Le Barroux, etc. All have capitulated, and all have accepted Conciliarism and the Novus Ordo to one degree or another, in return for being able to rub shoulders with a cardinal now and again, while patting one another on the back for being "in communion."
It is not your place to judge a Superior General and an orthodox Roman Catholic Bishop. You may disagree with him, but your choice is either follow him or schism.
Dang. What a stark difference 'tween this bishop and that Bp Wuerl dude. And Kmiec and Clark. Mahoney, Trautman, Hubbard, Brown, Weakland, Ochoa, Adamec. That ain't even touching Canada, Europe, etc. Wheweee! France,Germany and Austria alone would take this ol' boy all dang day to list. Well heck, guess there's a purdy darn stark difference between a SSPX bishop and every other bishop I ever heard of. It's like them others is from some whole nother religion. Well,... I guess they is, ain't they?
"Let your speech be always in grace seasoned with salt: that you may know how you ought to answer every man." - St. Paul, Epistle to the Colossians 4:6 Do not speak profanely and blaspheme the sacred by using profanity while talking of the Eternal City.
I have a suggestion. How about you heed Blessed Cardinal Newman's advice: "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." Go deep down in history and you will find out that the opinions held by SSPX "hard-liners" such as the three other bishops are based on errors. The integralist ideas of Charles Maurras, the lie that St. Athanasius was excommunicated by Pope St. Liberius, the wrong assumption that Cardinal Wright's 71 letter officially approved the SSPX, just to cite a few.
Just no, you presuppose the council is infallible without showing why this has to be the case and ignoring the fact that those who attended and implemented it clearly stated that they were overturning the 'old faith' and that it was not infallible. And no Archbishop Lefebvre blamed the council for most of his life, for a few years after it he thought it was only interpretations but that is all. Please educate yourself on the facts rather than your opinion.
Solar Wind Yeah I encourage people to think critically! I don’t care what nameless types on UA-cam supposedly referencing my person, because online I only maintain a persona and I don’t maintain it well...I get bored after I make my point so feel free to criticize me, but I am bored with you ideas or words now and won’t be returning to the chat. I’m sure you love criticism (sarcastic you see) because only someone insecure would take my words personally and write something so ridiculous. This is UA-cam! Not the Oxford Union! You have nothing special to offer and when you feel like typing then type - whatever keeps you mentally alert and putting ideas from books you read into a cohesive argument or discourse or narrative, whatever. Just work your brain buddy, whether you have goblin t-Rex hands and a troll penis or not. Obviously I don’t know what you look like so why would you take my words as anything but funny. If you don’t feel like chuckling even due to a cool smart response to my poorly worded reply here, then laugh! Be happy I cared enough to reply. I didn’t do it for myself in this case. Reality on a screen is VIRTUALLY real but NOT REAL.
I love how you said all kidding aside-the main point of writing to you. He is definitely a smart man and very ssintly...I love when cowards are emboldened to slander good people from mother’s basement. Let me watch you confront him with that no kidding attitude. Christ gives you joy, not an attitude of recklessness and vitriol.
But you want to be recognized by the enemies of Christ....what did YOUR FOUNDER tell you 4 Bishops....now you have backstabbed him and Christ and indeed the Roman Catholic Church itself. Vatican II and Nuvous Ordo are NOT GOOD and you should preach this to all!...Please come back and and tell your Priests you made a mistake in 2012 and will not make any agreement with Rome until they convert to the Catholic faith. This should be clear to you.
When you find evidence pre Vatican 2 that the church approved of religious liberty please tell me, until then accept the reality that all popes prior to the 1960's condemned as 'a moral wound against the catholic church' 'madnes'' etc... As for you attending the traditional latin rite, this proves exactly what the SSPX has always said, the true liturgy alone does not a catholic make
"Our own "excommunication" by a decree of Your Eminence [Cardinal Gantin] or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this. We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit that has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years. We ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly." -Archbishop Lefebvre
What incredible presumption and conceit. One could easily wager that almost half, half or even more than half the membership is against these actions he is taking. Yet, he did not consult anyone & forges ahead like a blockhead. . He did not even heed the advice of his equals, his bishops, the majority of whom are opposed to what he is doing and who were forced to come out publicly. . It is sheer diabolical delusion to believe that things are better in Rome, when they are so visibly worse.
Why is this man smiling? His fellow bishops have come out publicly in opposition to what he is doing, and he should be upset, but he is smiling. What is he smiling about? Why would he smile, knowing that the SSPX is divided and in chaos? What is there to smile about? This smile is very disconverting. What kind of man is this?
God Bless bishop Fellay, thank you
Instead of Traditionalist Leader it should say TRADITIONALIST BISHOP. In fact EVERY catholic should be a Traditionalist, because ideally we all try to follow and live by the Sacred Tradition of our Catholic Church.
True, my friend .u tube Leo's encyclical on freemasonry,plus pacendi by Pius X, I'll learn early the people and the problems and who was k
@@davidstanton3174 a
Zionist satanists have infiltrated every group world over. Wakeup lipservers to Jesus and Mary. About fellay less said the better. He is FRANKY's man. His henchmen promote Frankie everywhere as Franciscus..... Hohoho. Wake up again brainwashed zombies. You are no worse off than V2 Zombies. Hahaha.
Prayers for both the Holy Father and His Excellency Bishop Fellay. May God's will be done.
It was pleasure to hear you speak Your Grace . The church needs to return to it's traditionalist roots .
God bless and grant Bishop Bernard Fellay many years! He is serving what is true and only wants the best for the Church, not to split it. I hope the bishops and cardinals in the Vatican will recognise them as soon as possible, we need what the SSPX does!
+Kralperri Fellay is totally a traitor to archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. His Lordship left specific instrucctions as to when back to Rome. It was a total mistake to leave this mole to take over the SSPX. The new SSPX is a totally new concoction that has nothing to do with Catholic Tradition. Judas Fellay has accepted the new protestant Mass, he fell in the mouse trap of Ratzinger. Shame on this sellout.
Recognition from present day Satanists at Vatican you are as brainwashed as the V2 Zombies. Pity you'll.
@@ixtoc999 wow! Great! Only the Holy Ghost inspired person can speak thus. Messrs. Couture & Co., should wake up. Otherwise, their state will be like Ratzinger's today. Not even a priest wants to shake his hand. Hahaha. Hehehe. Curse of God on such traitors to Christ and Mother Mary. God bless you bro/sis.
Did you notice the masonic handshake with Ratzinger? Bishop Fellon is a mole, a destroyer. A Judas.
"We cleave, with all our heart and with all our soul, to Catholic Rome, the guardian of the Catholic Faith and of the traditions necessary for the maintenance of that Faith and to eternal Rome, mistress of wisdom and truth.
On the other hand we refuse and have always refused to follow the Rome of the neo-Protestant trend clearly manifested throughout the Second Vatican Council and later, in all the reforms born of it."
Archbishop Lefebvre to the Seminary Professors & students 21/11/ 1974.
JuanMaria2012 I love this quote filled with hope and authentic joy in Christ, even during then what was theretofore an unfathomable tempest. Lefebvre will be canonized and I pray for the people who claim to be members of Our Church, but are severed from the Body of Christ by their free will and internal assent to heresy even unto apostasy, and this is demonstrably true for many people who scattered fruitless seeds and laid waste to our vineyard. Christ is still King, though. The heel of the Virgin should also assure us of victory in Christ and remember that despite dire prophecies that should be taken quite seriously, the purpose of prophecy is to effect a change in humanity by individuals using free will to follow Christ in His Church...No Catholic of sincere faith and properly educated conscience thinks Francis is a good pope or that the New Mass is a good thing, for they are wolves like Michael Voris who has dressed as a lamb to manipulate poor Alice von Hildebrand to contradict her husband and Voris will do anything to gain attention and a sense of strength by picking on others who have a hard enough time as it is.
Modernist Rome must convert first! Till then no deal!
The Eastern Orthodox Patriarch comes to the installation mass of Pope Francis, now there is more talks with the SSPX...
I pray for Christian unity!
These priests of the SSPX hold much in the credit of retaining the Church's tradition! Many have failed to see and understand this. The Holy Father was very fond of Bishop Lefebvre. He was the founder of the Holy Ghost Fathers and he opened opened up schools and missions throughout the third world countries spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. We should hope for such good and holy priests who re commited to Saving Souls!
If the SSPX was necessary some 20-odd years ago, then what has changed in the Church to make the SSPX unnecessary today?
Thank you, Bishop Fellay. Bring the Vatican back home to The Church.
Vive le Christ Roi! Thank you, Abp Lefebvre! Sancto subito!!!
Thank you, your excellency!
Bishop Fellay is doing was is right.
I'm happy Bishop Fellay did not take Rome offer.
Saint Pius X Pray For US
The Church before Vatican II had evolved and the Church in 1962 was not the same as the Church of 100 AD. So Vatican II helped establish the Church's existence in the modern world without losing her apostolicity and authority. So our Church is indeed dynamic.
@John M Phiri...can't agree with you more. Although I can say that the SSPX are composed of pious members, they are disobedient and are not humble. Why can't the parishioner participate in the mass, the mass the Lord gifted us and in the Eucharist HE specifically asked for us to participate in to remember Him...what is so wrong with that? No question that the Latin mass is beautiful, buut so is the current mass....I don't understand the stubborness of the SSPX, 3 Popes have already reached out to them, Pope Benedict removed their ex-communication already & Pope Francis too has been trying to dialogue with them, but they are all too proud.
The Title should absolutely be “Discussion with a renowned Catholic Bishop”
I pray that the SSPX and the Holy See enter into full communion again.
I thought a part 2 of this was going to be released? Does anyone know about that? Thanks
I believe you've misunderstood Bishop Fellay. He is not a politician, rather, he is orthodox and measured and balanced. He works within the parameters of the Second Vatican Council while finding it extraordinarily difficult to reconcile with Tradition. Privately, he may wish it could be just thrown out, but he understands that it never will be because it's a valid Council, as the SSPX officially maintains, though pastoral in nature and ambiguously written.
A shame to see the trolls have already arrived to spout their rubbish and ignorance, we should pray for them! I hope the normalisation proceeds well and as for those shouting traitor, how exactly? The Archbishop made it clear that being Roman was an essential part of being catholic and if we can be normalised with Rome and keep the faith, how can we say no? That would be schismatic
thank you Lord for giving us bishop fellay to defend the tradition ., our catholic church🙏🙏🙏
I think it would be a good idea for Bishop Fellay to send out a newsletter concerning this matter and exactly what is going on with Rome, etc. It seems many are confused and concerned.
I heard there was going to be a second part to this interview released?
To everyone on the comments, just say your opinion and leave. The problem of the bishops are to the bishops, just as Caesar is to Caesar's.
But the conciliar church teaches that there IS salvation outside the Church,not only by baptism of desire, but also BY MEANS of the "ecclesial communities." Wouldn't that apply to we, poor traditionalists also?
That is the unfortunate truth. The new mass is a protestantisation of the Mass of Ages, that was admitted by Abp. Bugnini, the architect of the Novus Ordo. This was done directly by the wishes of Paul VI which makes the whole thing worse. But, it is in no way related to the Council since the rite of Paul VI was only promulgated in 1970 whereas Vatican II had been concluded by 1965.
Where there is the Bishop (of Rome), there is the church.
Hermann Kepfer The consecration ritual post-Vatican II is problematic. I really sympathize with Bishops Fellay & Williamson.
We owe Bishop Fellay our respect and prayers. But we must be alert and prepared at all times for the devil seeks to devour the good. In our times and with the prophecies of Our Lady we cannot expect Bishop Fellay to have some special ability to cleanse the Catholic Church. No. The Church belongs to God and it has got to the point in which God Himself will cleanse His Church. God have mercy on us on that day!
I'd also like to stress that one reason Bishop Fellay may appear to be glossing over the contentious nature of the Vatican II is because he has faith in the supernatural nature of the Church, as he made clear in the recent letter he wrote to the other three Bishops. He fully believes that the gates of hell will not prevail, and that the Holy Ghost will work all of this out if the Society only stays faithful and fights for Tradition. We needn't worry about things which we have no power over.
It's now December 2012. Did anyting get announced in May?
"Valid council" is ambiguous in itself. The SSPX also maintains that the Novus Ordo is, in its originally promulgated form, "valid" also, but that does not mean that they don't unhesitatingly desire it to be condemned and suppressed. Vatican II, not defining any dogmas and having no parts endowed with extraordinary infallibility was, simply, fallible. And it did err, in a few points. (Not simply mere bad wording.) The SSPX has always maintained this, and it is now being resolutely glossed over.
846
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation... He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.
continued
Well said!
A spokesman for the Vatican just published an article about the SSPX , and said that the two documents SSPX complains about are not "doctrinal". Two paragraphs later, they say it is the teaching of the magisterium and must be taken seriously. In other words, it's doctrinal. What does it mean when they say in one paragraph that it is not doctrinal, and in the next paragraph, that it is doctrinal? It means that no matter what you say, you will be right!
I think you need to learn to respect religious life. Bishop Fellay is an amazing soul and leader. I agree Bishop Williamson made a huge mistake. However, who is without sin? Don't point fingers unless your soul is without sin. Trying to make the right decision for the glory of God and the salvation of souls is very hard. Bishop Fellay needs our prayers. He has mine and I hope that you will pray for him, too.
What is the outcome between the SSPX and the Vatican?
Amigo, que opinas de la SSPX? Estas a favor de la comunion total con el Vaticano? Gracias.
The purpose of a Traditonal Catholic is to adhere to the Magisterium of the Faith. That faith which has endured for a full 2,000 years. To receive the Sacraments from validly ordained Catholic Priests who hear Confessions (Sacrament of Penance not Reconciliation), and who are working to save the souls of their penitents. To spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to be the example to a world gone mad with sin. Just to live in peace as examples of Piety, Holiness and to gain Heaven. et al.
William Thomas Walsh received a B.A. fromYale University in 1913, and a honorary Litt.D. from Fordham University. He wrote no less than 16 books from 1910 to 1948, treating on such subjects as "The Spanish Inquisition", Philip II of Spain, Saint Teresa of Avila, Isabella of Spain, and Our Lady of Fatima. You are reading slanted history. The fact that Dominic Guzman, or Saint Dominic, was monitoring the Inquisition, gave it the balance it needed to prescribe Mercy and not vengeance.
I pray for a union between the SSPX and Rome. The SSPX has a lot to offer the present day church and we'd be blessed to have them reunite with us. +AMGD+
His bishops were forced to come out publicly with their opposition because he refused to consider the thinking of the majority, he was madder than hell. Yet, he's smiling? Why is he smiling? Shouldn't he be upset? Isn't it natural to be upset. Yet, he's smiling. What an actor!
Vatican Council II is not a break with the past unless implicit salvation mentioned in the text, is assumed to be explicit and known in 2012.
Archbishop Gerhard Muller's recent statement could suggest that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF) has tracked the 'missing link' responsible for heretical interpretations of Vatican Council II.He seems to have detected the primary cause of Vatican Council II being considered a break with the past.
the best question for a bishop would be> is it true that you can only move sideways?
Apparently the bishop hasnt heard of Saints Justus and Pastor--feast day August 6.
While I don't agree with your stand on the Vatican, I do have a question. Wouldn't the union of the Vatican and the SSPX bring greater holiness to the Vatican?
There is no going back. This is clear.The post-conciliar church is now fixed in its ways, its new theology, its liturgy. If you truly believe that Francis validly governs the Roman Church, your should humbly follow not only what he and the bishops grudgingly permit (the various indults),, but what they enthusiastically embrace as the "new springtime."
"The devil can imitate humility but not OBEDIENCE." - St. Faustina
"He who is not with the Pope is not with God." - Sr Lucia
🤡🤣😂
Quite the contrary, I believe they will be a voice that will be listened to. It would have been better if they had accepted Pope Bennedict 16ths offer, as it now will be harder under Pope Francis.
MSR. Lefebvre said: DO NOT MAKE A PRACTICAL AGREEMENT BEFORE A DOCTRINAL .
Where is the doctrinal agreement?? The talks failed.
He said it must be taken seriously but is not doctrinal, that’s a difference.
serious is not doctrinal
SSPX is not against Rome its the only catholic group fighting for the Pope
amen!
The ordinary magisterium was used by merit of convoking a council at an ecumenical level, therefore involving the entirety of the apostolic Church.
Orientalium Ecclesiarum was also very helpful clarification and Catholic teaching.
Good response!
Merci mgr!
They can seek canonical status knowing that the Council indicates that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell unless they convert into the Catholic Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II ) (2), that all the members of Christian communities are also oriented to Hell without Catholic Faith (Ad Gentes 7) and though non Catholics are physically free they have a moral obligation, to enter the Catholic Church...
continued
"We have never wished to belong to this system that calls itself the Conciliar Church and defines itself with the Novus Ordo "Mass" and with an oecumenism that leads to Indifferentism and the laicization of all society. We have no part, nullam partem habemus, with the pantheon of the religions of Assisi."
We don't enjoy "turmoil or consternation". But we want the Truth. What did we Trads fight for all these years? Our posterity needs the Truth that saves,no counterfeit. We fought and sacrificed for integral Catholicism, sometimes at great cost to ourselves and our families. We were the object of scorn and vilification. Now we are to sell out to an unrepentant Vatican establishment, more disorderd and alienated from the Roman Tradition than it was 50 years ago? I don't think so!!!!
The Council no where contradicts Fr.Leonard Feeney's understanding of the dogma on exclusive salvation.
If the cardinal who issued the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston assumed that invincible ignorance etc were exceptions to the dogma, he made a mistake.
The Letter does not explicitly say that Fr.Leonard Feeney was excommunicated for heresy.One has to imply it - and just about every one is doing just this!
The difference btwn the SSPX bishops and the others is that SSPX members hold on to holiness and TRADITION, while MANY in the mo dern church hold on to NOVELTIES. THATS IT! In a nutshell and there's no pt; in arguing! It is what it is!
I am afraid SSPX, sooner or later, would be crushed and digested by the conciliar church like a crispy corn fritter. That would be a great loss, because SSPX represents the largest force in the Traditionalist movement. I would grieve to see SSPX priests forced to celebrate the new mass, or adopt disfigured doctrinal models in their public role as teachers of the faithful. Let's hope they ride out this storm and remain the "loyal opposition"--outside the confines of the Vatican.
The Council is infallible because it was convoked at an Ecumenical level, thus invoking the ordinary authority of the Magisterium which is de facto infallible. It is true that it was not a dogmatic council, yet it was pastoral and through this it transmitted doctrine. We must accept it as valid because if it is not, then the Popes and subsequent bishops who signed the Conciliar documents have acted without the authority of the successors of the apostles and are still without their authority.
pastoral means "not infallible", it can contain error and even the pope said that
5:10 *truth*
Actually no, only the ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible, it is entirely questionable whether the council belongs to that, so you are begging the question. I notice you have not responded to any of my points, perhaps because you have no answer?
Be that as it may, (and I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Council erring, time will tell as the Holy Ghost enables the Church to sort all of this out), why would you suggest that the entire Council should be thrown out if, say, 95% of it is compatible with Catholic orthodoxy? In my opinion, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum, is actually helpful and necessary, and clarifies some things *against* modernism, such as the infallibility of Sacred Scripture.
No sell-out, no capitulation, no surrender!!!!
"Bow down...during times of persecution"? "No one is obliged to provoke the persecutor?"
Tell that to John the Baptist or Bishop John Fisher.
AMEN!~
Civility by all means. And prayer for those lost in a haze of confusion.That being said, we can never succumb to the Subjectivistic notion that FEELING one is right makes one right. The truth is not about feeling. This is especially so concerning the Truths of the Faith. We are confronted by issues of both doctrinal purity and praxis. An uncritical, supine attitude towards ecclesiastical figures is precisely how so many were spirited on board the "ship of fools", called Vatican II!
0:26 the priest does not say words to transform the eucharist host. Jesus said the 3 words of transformation," I AM the way & truth& life
but we can apply some correnctions or notes to the text of the vatican II and give the traditional interpretation, and then we can do our own thing with the r mass and traditional church and let the novus ordo do their thing at the end we will win more and more ppl bc we have the true faith we just need not to be persecuted but we cannot be schismatics otherwise we would be damned bc there is no salus outside the church
Give us Barabbas!
I respectfully disagree with you. Sometimes I wonder if people who think as you do enjoy the turmoil, consternation and ever present discord amongst 'traditionalist Catholics, and who fail to realise that constant attacks and slander really only does the devils work. You would be better to simply pray for the guidance of Almighty God for Bishop Fellay (who I am confident) also realizes he constantly needs that guidance.
Sounds to me like the "three bishops" are being much more faithful to their holy founder than Bishop Fellay's naive optimism. Look at the FSSP, Campos, Bon Pasteur, Le Barroux, etc. All have capitulated, and all have accepted Conciliarism and the Novus Ordo to one degree or another, in return for being able to rub shoulders with a cardinal now and again, while patting one another on the back for being "in communion."
WHO GIVES A YOUNG BOYS MENTAL HEALTH!
It is not your place to judge a Superior General and an orthodox Roman Catholic Bishop. You may disagree with him, but your choice is either follow him or schism.
Dang. What a stark difference 'tween this bishop and that Bp Wuerl dude. And Kmiec and Clark. Mahoney, Trautman, Hubbard, Brown, Weakland, Ochoa, Adamec. That ain't even touching Canada, Europe, etc. Wheweee! France,Germany and Austria alone would take this ol' boy all dang day to list. Well heck, guess there's a purdy darn stark difference between a SSPX bishop and every other bishop I ever heard of. It's like them others is from some whole nother religion. Well,... I guess they is, ain't they?
oh, yeah, bishop Fellay, you are going to get your cardinal hat, archbishop hat or just 30 silver coins!
"Let your speech be always in grace seasoned with salt: that you may know how you ought to answer every man." - St. Paul, Epistle to the Colossians 4:6
Do not speak profanely and blaspheme the sacred by using profanity while talking of the Eternal City.
It’s not so holy right now asshole.
I have a suggestion. How about you heed Blessed Cardinal Newman's advice: "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
Go deep down in history and you will find out that the opinions held by SSPX "hard-liners" such as the three other bishops are based on errors. The integralist ideas of Charles Maurras, the lie that St. Athanasius was excommunicated by Pope St. Liberius, the wrong assumption that Cardinal Wright's 71 letter officially approved the SSPX, just to cite a few.
About Bishop Fellay;
VALID Priest ✔
UNVALID Bishop ✔
Just no, you presuppose the council is infallible without showing why this has to be the case and ignoring the fact that those who attended and implemented it clearly stated that they were overturning the 'old faith' and that it was not infallible. And no Archbishop Lefebvre blamed the council for most of his life, for a few years after it he thought it was only interpretations but that is all. Please educate yourself on the facts rather than your opinion.
Of course the SSPX is against the apostate Rome.
Oremus pro FSSPX and Benedict XVI!Greetings from Poland!:)
Some people like a lot of icing on their cake, it kinda makes me sick.
He's a protestant!
Solar Wind Are you a troll or goblin?
@@Joel-G-C I am both..and many other things. All kidding aside..you dont like criticism correct?
Solar Wind Yeah I encourage people to think critically! I don’t care what nameless types on UA-cam supposedly referencing my person, because online I only maintain a persona and I don’t maintain it well...I get bored after I make my point so feel free to criticize me, but I am bored with you ideas or words now and won’t be returning to the chat. I’m sure you love criticism (sarcastic you see) because only someone insecure would take my words personally and write something so ridiculous. This is UA-cam! Not the Oxford Union! You have nothing special to offer and when you feel like typing then type - whatever keeps you mentally alert and putting ideas from books you read into a cohesive argument or discourse or narrative, whatever. Just work your brain buddy, whether you have goblin t-Rex hands and a troll penis or not. Obviously I don’t know what you look like so why would you take my words as anything but funny. If you don’t feel like chuckling even due to a cool smart response to my poorly worded reply here, then laugh! Be happy I cared enough to reply. I didn’t do it for myself in this case. Reality on a screen is VIRTUALLY real but NOT REAL.
I love how you said all kidding aside-the main point of writing to you. He is definitely a smart man and very ssintly...I love when cowards are emboldened to slander good people from mother’s basement. Let me watch you confront him with that no kidding attitude. Christ gives you joy, not an attitude of recklessness and vitriol.
Gosh I wish I was in my mom's basement. I could avoid this terrible mortgage. Fact is friend, he is a protestant, by definition.
But you want to be recognized by the enemies of Christ....what did YOUR FOUNDER tell you 4 Bishops....now you have backstabbed him and Christ and indeed the Roman Catholic Church itself. Vatican II and Nuvous Ordo are NOT GOOD and you should preach this to all!...Please come back and and tell your Priests you made a mistake in 2012 and will not make any agreement with Rome until they convert to the Catholic faith. This should be clear to you.
No shit. Why do you think the Society's stayed away from Rome for 40 years.
When you find evidence pre Vatican 2 that the church approved of religious liberty please tell me, until then accept the reality that all popes prior to the 1960's condemned as 'a moral wound against the catholic church' 'madnes'' etc... As for you attending the traditional latin rite, this proves exactly what the SSPX has always said, the true liturgy alone does not a catholic make
Learn about the Church.
All these men wearing robes do not work.
Best gig to not get your hands dirty.
So you say.
"Our own "excommunication" by a decree of Your Eminence [Cardinal Gantin] or of another Roman Congregation would only be the irrefutable proof of this. We ask for nothing better than to be declared out of communion with this adulterous spirit that has been blowing in the Church for the last 25 years. We ask for nothing better than to be declared outside of this impious communion of the ungodly." -Archbishop Lefebvre
What incredible presumption and conceit. One could easily wager that almost half, half or even more than half the membership is against these actions he is taking. Yet, he did not consult anyone & forges ahead like a blockhead. . He did not even heed the advice of his equals, his bishops, the majority of whom are opposed to what he is doing and who were forced to come out publicly. . It is sheer diabolical delusion to believe that things are better in Rome, when they are so visibly worse.
He is negotiating with a novus ordo priest.
Or St. Stephen. Or St. Paul. People are getting duped by Pachelbel and Smiles.
I reject vatican 2
Do you even know what fascist means? Have you eve read what the church taught before 1960? I think the answer to both questions is no.
Why is this man smiling? His fellow bishops have come out publicly in opposition to what he is doing, and he should be upset, but he is smiling. What is he smiling about? Why would he smile, knowing that the SSPX is divided and in chaos? What is there to smile about? This smile is very disconverting. What kind of man is this?