Thanks for this. I'm a new sourdough baker (Baker period), made one loaf yesterday in a clay cloche I'd never used before (Unlined clay ) and it was great.
HI Kate! A friend said she was watching this video so I decided to check it out as I LOVE rye bread. I have made it before , and even from that same recipe (I love that book, too! It is my go-to for sourdough anything). Anyway, I made a loaf this morning (I do the bulk rise overnight in a cupboard because our kitchen is cold AND I always start later in the day ) and it turned out SO good! I added both caraway and dill seeds to it and it is super yummy. Thank you for the great idea. :)
Thanks so much for sharing this! I’m so happy to hear you have and love the book too. Caraway and dill sounds like a great combo, I will definitely try that! Thanks for checking us out! ☺️🤗
Hi, I came across your channel tonight as I have a loaf on the 2nd rise. My dough was quite wet and had a difficult time with it. It is June 2nd here in Colorado and it was 100 % humidity and 55 today. Very cold and wet this time of year for us. So I'm hoping this is my problem 😕. Thank you for your video, it helped me realize that it's a wet dough. I also love your apron!
Thanks so much! My mom gave me the apron and made a matching one for my daughter 🥰 Next time you bake, try adding a bit more flour to see if that helps. Over proofing can also cause a wet-like dough, but I’m guessing that’s not the case here. Let me know how it goes! Thanks for watching! ☺️
WOW....Excellent Looking Loaves....have the recipe. Definitely make it. AND I will use a cold oven and bake for 40 mins in my Sasafrass Dutch Oven 425 oven for 40 mins remove lid and cook until golden. See what happens? Thanks again for sharing.
Thank you so much!! That sounds great! I haven’t tried baking in a cold oven yet but I’ve heard good things about it! I also have a sassafras! Let me know how it turns out! Thanks for sharing! ☺️
Thanks! I purchased them off Amazon and they are great! After about 8 seconds you start to feel the heat, but they definitely work for my bread making purposes! I put a link in my "Description" for you, under LINKS. Thanks so much! :)
Hi! I purchased the cloches at breadtopia.com. They’re in Iowa I believe. They work very well and don’t need any seasoning or oil. Just be sure to put them in the oven before you preheat it, so they don’t crack. ☺️
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you don’t use the mixer for at least the initial mixing/autolyse until you do stretch and folds during bulk fermentation? I was thinking about getting an ank, but if I primarily make these types of sourdoughs and the mixer doesn’t have the efficacy maybe I should reconsider. (My KA finally kicked so I’m in the market, but at it’s price point may not be worth it if still doing that portion by hand)
Hi! Great question. You could absolutely use the ank for the initial mix. It is very powerful and will handle large batches. I’ve always mixed my sourdough loaves by hand so I guess it’s just habit. The one sourdough I mix using the ank for is when I make bagels as the dough is a bit more dense and thus harder to mix by hand. But yes, you can definitely use the ank for initial mixing if you’d like to. The ank’s dough roller works nicely to ensure all ingredients are combined well. ☺️
Hello and thanks. Would you please tell me why you put them in the proving baskets? Since you don’t refrigerate them like many recipes, why not after a short rest just pop the in the oven?
Hi! The proofing baskets help with structure after the shaping and allow a final rest where the gluten can relax a bit after that shaping, before baking. I believe it helps with the rise when baking. Good question! I’ve always done it this way but perhaps it’s worth an experiment to see the difference without a final proof!
Thank you. I am making a single loaf right now. So far so good. My dough was a bit too sticky so I added a little bit of flour after about 3 hours/2 stretch and fold. Looking forward to baking it this afternoon.
Thanks for asking. The loaf tastes good, but....my kitchen was too cold, so I should have taken a much longer rise time. I went 8 hours, but not enough. I live in Southern California but it’s been a cold winter. My house maybe 65. I was concerned that a rise in the oven with the light on was too warm. Lots of variables including that I had to go somewhere...So, heck, I baked it anyways. We will eat it and be thankful. Next time I will get things under control better.
Sometimes we have to go through the trial and error before we get it right. At least you gave it a shot and learned something from it. Hopefully next time it works out! Thanks for the update. ☺️
Why don't people just knead with the Ankasrum, or do slap and fold kneading? Is it something peculiar to sourdough? Do people like to work sourdough less?
You know, I get this question a lot! I mix by hand out of habit and tradition but there’s absolutely no reason not to use the mixer. I do use it for denser recipes like bagels that require a little more elbow grease. I have not tried using the mixer for kneading or folding/stretching sourdough but I know there are people that do that. It’s on my list of things to try out! Hope that’s helpful!! ☺️
You can go a lot higher with your rye content. With 20% rye only, it can hardly be called a rye bread. Although, in Japan where I am, you will find a white sandwich loaf made with white wheat flour that contains 2 or 3% rye berries and it will be sold as rye bread. Isn't that fraud? Where shall we draw the line? In Germany, the line is legally drawn at 90%, in France at 65%, but I'd say at the very least the rye content should be larger than the wheat content, thus >50% in order for the bread to be called a rye bread. Try to reverse the ratio and use 80% rye and 20% wheat. If you use a strong wheat flour, you should still get a nice rise and you'll actually have a bread that tastes predominantly of rye, not wheat.
Thanks so much. I’ve continued to follow this recipe because it tastes good, but you have a good point. Next time I’ll try a higher ratio of rye with less wheat to see how that affects the flavor and structure.
@@farmbread Nothing wrong with the bread. I just wouldn't call it a rye bread. In the English speaking world it has become customary amongst artisan bakers to name all the cereals in the name in descending order of their ratios. Using this nomenclature, the bread would be called a wheat-rye bread. If you want to make a bread with a high rye content, keep in mind that the water absorption and dough consistency will change as the rye ratio increases. The non-water soluble proteins of wheat form a viscoelastic gel that traps the CO2 gas produced by yeasts, thereby causing the dough to expand and rise. This gel is called gluten. The proteins of rye do not form any gluten, despite nutritionists false claims to the contrary which are based on an assumption made back in the 1950s which has since turned out to have been false. Instead of gluten-forming proteins, rye contains a higher ratio of water absorbing fibres which also form a gel that can trap CO2 gas. However, the gel formed by the fibres is not as elastic as the gluten formed by the proteins of wheat. For this reason rye dough is less elastic and thus less extensible, limiting its ability to expand. As a result, rye dough does not rise as much as wheat dough. Wheat also has such fibres, but they are only in the outer layers of the grain. Thus when using darker wheat flours, the resulting doughs will form a fibre based gel in addition to the protein based gluten, making the dough even stronger. However, the fibres need much longer to absorb water than proteins do. Thus when using a dough with more fibres, such as darker wheat flours or rye flour or both, the dough needs longer resting times. This is the reason why wholewheat doughs and rye doughs are stickier. Think of the fibres as the tentacles of an octopus and of water molecules as marbles that the octopus is trying to collect. The fewer marbles are attached to the suction cups, the more free suction cups can stick to your hands. If all the suction cups have captured a marble, there are none left to stick to your hands. It is also important to know that the finer the flour, the more water it can absorb. More water is generally better. Of course there is a limit to how much water can be added to a dough because we want to make a bread and not a pancake. However, adding more fibre will bind more water without the dough becoming runny. You can use a small amount of fleawort, mix it with 20 times its own weight of water, stirr for a minute to make sure there won't be any clumps and then let it rest for 2-3 minutes until it has set and becomes a gel. Then add this gel to your dough. To a certain extent this can complement the gluten in a dough with lower wheat content, or even in a wheat dough with low protein content. A small amount of fleawort will be sufficient, typically 0.5-1% of the weight of the flour. Alternatively, you can add dried gluten extract to your flour, about 10% of the weight of the rye flour should do. Last but not least, add some apple cider vinegar to your bulk water. This strengthens the gluten network. About 3% of the total bulk water will do.
I bake 30% dark rye sourdough and it has a good open crumb, but it takes higher hydration, gentler pre-shaping and shaping, and longer proofing in the baskets before baking. I retard mine in the fridge for 10-12 hours, and do a proper poke test to ensure it retains some power to spring in the oven but not too much to burst whenever.
Update: the recipe made me cry and angry. I’ve spent some time and flour to make as per your recipe and dough is sticky, doesn’t combine, especially when you make at home. I have been making sourdough for the last 3 months and wanted to try rye flour, however I have never experienced like this. Don’t recommend this recipe
I’m sorry you had that experience! It sounds like you were on the right track, it’s supposed to be very shaggy and sticky when you first mix the ingredients together. Then you let the dough rest. I’m not sure why your ingredients would not combine, perhaps not enough water? I’ll be happy to try and troubleshoot with you. Thanks for sharing!
Oh my goodness I just can't stop making this bread. I even ordered the book. That's one amazing book. Thank you for the great instructions.
I’m so, so happy to hear this! The book really is amazing. Have fun with it!! 💗
So grateful for these instructors. Thank you so much!!!!!
Aww, thank you so much! 🤗
Spectacular!!!!
Thank you so much!! ☺️
Looks good. Will have to give it a try. Thanks!
Wonderful! Thank you! ☺️
Thanks for this. I'm a new sourdough baker (Baker period), made one loaf yesterday in a clay cloche I'd never used before (Unlined clay ) and it was great.
Thanks so much! How exciting! So glad to hear your first loaf was a success!! Happy baking! ☺️
HI Kate! A friend said she was watching this video so I decided to check it out as I LOVE rye bread. I have made it before , and even from that same recipe (I love that book, too! It is my go-to for sourdough anything). Anyway, I made a loaf this morning (I do the bulk rise overnight in a cupboard because our kitchen is cold AND I always start later in the day ) and it turned out SO good! I added both caraway and dill seeds to it and it is super yummy. Thank you for the great idea. :)
Thanks so much for sharing this! I’m so happy to hear you have and love the book too. Caraway and dill sounds like a great combo, I will definitely try that! Thanks for checking us out! ☺️🤗
Oh, wow! I can't wait to try your recipe. Thanks for the video.
Thanks so much! Let me know how it goes! ☺️
Hi, I came across your channel tonight as I have a loaf on the 2nd rise. My dough was quite wet and had a difficult time with it. It is June 2nd here in Colorado and it was 100 % humidity and 55 today. Very cold and wet this time of year for us. So I'm hoping this is my problem 😕. Thank you for your video, it helped me realize that it's a wet dough. I also love your apron!
Thanks so much! My mom gave me the apron and made a matching one for my daughter 🥰
Next time you bake, try adding a bit more flour to see if that helps. Over proofing can also cause a wet-like dough, but I’m guessing that’s not the case here. Let me know how it goes! Thanks for watching! ☺️
I had the same problem. Now I’m angry, upset and left with so much dough that I can’t work with
WOW....Excellent Looking Loaves....have the recipe. Definitely make it. AND I will use
a cold oven and bake for 40 mins in my Sasafrass Dutch Oven 425 oven for 40 mins remove lid and cook until golden. See what happens? Thanks again for sharing.
Thank you so much!! That sounds great! I haven’t tried baking in a cold oven yet but I’ve heard good things about it! I also have a sassafras! Let me know how it turns out! Thanks for sharing! ☺️
Where can get those gloves you have? Love them😊
Thanks! I purchased them off Amazon and they are great! After about 8 seconds you start to feel the heat, but they definitely work for my bread making purposes! I put a link in my "Description" for you, under LINKS. Thanks so much! :)
Can you tell me where you got those baking cloches, and whether you oiled them before heating them?
Hi! I purchased the cloches at breadtopia.com. They’re in Iowa I believe. They work very well and don’t need any seasoning or oil. Just be sure to put them in the oven before you preheat it, so they don’t crack. ☺️
You can use a seeding heat mat to proof your rise, 20 degrees hotter so 80 degrees ay 68 degrees
Thank you so much, I’ll definitely look into that!
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you don’t use the mixer for at least the initial mixing/autolyse until you do stretch and folds during bulk fermentation? I was thinking about getting an ank, but if I primarily make these types of sourdoughs and the mixer doesn’t have the efficacy maybe I should reconsider. (My KA finally kicked so I’m in the market, but at it’s price point may not be worth it if still doing that portion by hand)
Hi! Great question. You could absolutely use the ank for the initial mix. It is very powerful and will handle large batches. I’ve always mixed my sourdough loaves by hand so I guess it’s just habit. The one sourdough I mix using the ank for is when I make bagels as the dough is a bit more dense and thus harder to mix by hand. But yes, you can definitely use the ank for initial mixing if you’d like to. The ank’s dough roller works nicely to ensure all ingredients are combined well. ☺️
Hello and thanks. Would you please tell me why you put them in the proving baskets? Since you don’t refrigerate them like many recipes, why not after a short rest just pop the in the oven?
Hi! The proofing baskets help with structure after the shaping and allow a final rest where the gluten can relax a bit after that shaping, before baking. I believe it helps with the rise when baking. Good question! I’ve always done it this way but perhaps it’s worth an experiment to see the difference without a final proof!
Thank you. I am making a single loaf right now. So far so good. My dough was a bit too sticky so I added a little bit of flour after about 3 hours/2 stretch and fold. Looking forward to baking it this afternoon.
Sounds like a good adjustment to add a bit more flour. How did it turn out? Thanks so much!
Thanks for asking. The loaf tastes good, but....my kitchen was too cold, so I should have taken a much longer rise time. I went 8 hours, but not enough. I live in Southern California but it’s been a cold winter. My house maybe 65. I was concerned that a rise in the oven with the light on was too warm. Lots of variables including that I had to go somewhere...So, heck, I baked it anyways. We will eat it and be thankful. Next time I will get things under control better.
Sometimes we have to go through the trial and error before we get it right. At least you gave it a shot and learned something from it. Hopefully next time it works out! Thanks for the update. ☺️
Why don't people just knead with the Ankasrum, or do slap and fold kneading? Is it something peculiar to sourdough? Do people like to work sourdough less?
You know, I get this question a lot! I mix by hand out of habit and tradition but there’s absolutely no reason not to use the mixer. I do use it for denser recipes like bagels that require a little more elbow grease.
I have not tried using the mixer for kneading or folding/stretching sourdough but I know there are people that do that. It’s on my list of things to try out! Hope that’s helpful!! ☺️
You can go a lot higher with your rye content. With 20% rye only, it can hardly be called a rye bread. Although, in Japan where I am, you will find a white sandwich loaf made with white wheat flour that contains 2 or 3% rye berries and it will be sold as rye bread. Isn't that fraud? Where shall we draw the line? In Germany, the line is legally drawn at 90%, in France at 65%, but I'd say at the very least the rye content should be larger than the wheat content, thus >50% in order for the bread to be called a rye bread. Try to reverse the ratio and use 80% rye and 20% wheat. If you use a strong wheat flour, you should still get a nice rise and you'll actually have a bread that tastes predominantly of rye, not wheat.
Thanks so much. I’ve continued to follow this recipe because it tastes good, but you have a good point. Next time I’ll try a higher ratio of rye with less wheat to see how that affects the flavor and structure.
@@farmbread Nothing wrong with the bread. I just wouldn't call it a rye bread. In the English speaking world it has become customary amongst artisan bakers to name all the cereals in the name in descending order of their ratios. Using this nomenclature, the bread would be called a wheat-rye bread.
If you want to make a bread with a high rye content, keep in mind that the water absorption and dough consistency will change as the rye ratio increases. The non-water soluble proteins of wheat form a viscoelastic gel that traps the CO2 gas produced by yeasts, thereby causing the dough to expand and rise. This gel is called gluten. The proteins of rye do not form any gluten, despite nutritionists false claims to the contrary which are based on an assumption made back in the 1950s which has since turned out to have been false. Instead of gluten-forming proteins, rye contains a higher ratio of water absorbing fibres which also form a gel that can trap CO2 gas. However, the gel formed by the fibres is not as elastic as the gluten formed by the proteins of wheat. For this reason rye dough is less elastic and thus less extensible, limiting its ability to expand. As a result, rye dough does not rise as much as wheat dough.
Wheat also has such fibres, but they are only in the outer layers of the grain. Thus when using darker wheat flours, the resulting doughs will form a fibre based gel in addition to the protein based gluten, making the dough even stronger. However, the fibres need much longer to absorb water than proteins do. Thus when using a dough with more fibres, such as darker wheat flours or rye flour or both, the dough needs longer resting times. This is the reason why wholewheat doughs and rye doughs are stickier. Think of the fibres as the tentacles of an octopus and of water molecules as marbles that the octopus is trying to collect. The fewer marbles are attached to the suction cups, the more free suction cups can stick to your hands. If all the suction cups have captured a marble, there are none left to stick to your hands.
It is also important to know that the finer the flour, the more water it can absorb. More water is generally better. Of course there is a limit to how much water can be added to a dough because we want to make a bread and not a pancake. However, adding more fibre will bind more water without the dough becoming runny. You can use a small amount of fleawort, mix it with 20 times its own weight of water, stirr for a minute to make sure there won't be any clumps and then let it rest for 2-3 minutes until it has set and becomes a gel. Then add this gel to your dough. To a certain extent this can complement the gluten in a dough with lower wheat content, or even in a wheat dough with low protein content. A small amount of fleawort will be sufficient, typically 0.5-1% of the weight of the flour. Alternatively, you can add dried gluten extract to your flour, about 10% of the weight of the rye flour should do.
Last but not least, add some apple cider vinegar to your bulk water. This strengthens the gluten network. About 3% of the total bulk water will do.
Wow, thank you!
@@farmbread You're welcome. I am looking forward to see the results of your adventures with rye.
What is the crumb like? Disappointing to watch the whole thing and not see the inside of the bread.
Thanks for your question. You’ll see the crumb all the way at the very end of the video.
Not a good open crumb either. Good lord!!
Good crumb shot! It’s got rye flour in it, what do you expect?
I bake 30% dark rye sourdough and it has a good open crumb, but it takes higher hydration, gentler pre-shaping and shaping, and longer proofing in the baskets before baking. I retard mine in the fridge for 10-12 hours, and do a proper poke test to ensure it retains some power to spring in the oven but not too much to burst whenever.
Update: the recipe made me cry and angry. I’ve spent some time and flour to make as per your recipe and dough is sticky, doesn’t combine, especially when you make at home. I have been making sourdough for the last 3 months and wanted to try rye flour, however I have never experienced like this. Don’t recommend this recipe
I’m sorry you had that experience! It sounds like you were on the right track, it’s supposed to be very shaggy and sticky when you first mix the ingredients together. Then you let the dough rest. I’m not sure why your ingredients would not combine, perhaps not enough water?
I’ll be happy to try and troubleshoot with you. Thanks for sharing!