Remember his quote from s1e7 "The Moth" when he spoke to charlie about life and struggling as a way of making you stronger. He needed his tough life to become what he was. ua-cam.com/video/b2-psZD4nzc/v-deo.html
I liked to imagine if Locke had done things differently. But on important issues it was already fated to happen the way it happened because of the time loop. Perhaps he could have avoided murdering Naomi, since she'd already been wounded and the island would have let her die after it served her purpose.
@@apple54345 To be honest I watched the show so many years ago (I think like almost a decade ago) that I don't remember scene with Richard and compass, so I didn't know what this was about. I thought he was trying to establish what is close to Lock and choosing knife symbolized violent tendencies (not that others are exactly pacifists) but I thought Richard was expecting more of of him.
I was always under the impression that he had to choose 3 things, the compass (obviously), the sand to represent the island and then the Book of Laws for Order.
Richard tested the boy to see if the time travelling John Locke was telling the truth, once he realised he was, he knew he was about to have a lot of trouble in his hands
No, the correct answer was sand (or ash) from the island, the compass (which existed only in the time loop), and the Book of Laws. Unfortunately, John Locke was never their official leader, so was never given the Book of Laws. (This was a test to see if he would become one of their leaders.) From his perspective he learned about knives in his far future, but it was wrong because it wasn't one of Locke's personal knives. Somehow Benjamin Linus passed the test, which has a 1/18 chance if you knew that 3/6 of the items were correct (less if 0-6 items were the correct answer). Ben had a vision of his dead mother, and was healed by the water in the temple, so could have had a psychic connection to pass the test. Or he could have cheated by being more savvy than John (perhaps being a natural psychologist and manipulator) and deduced as well as read from Richard's reactions what the correct answers were. A normal psychological experiment would have it double-blind, so both the subject and the researcher are unaware of the correct answers until opening an envelope or sending the subject's answers back to HQ.
@@sandal_thong8631 this still doesn't explain why Richard got mad. If I were him, I would've been like 'oh well, guess that bald fellow lied' and quietly left.
I think John has always had that special "feeling" or "sixth sense" since he was a child when he drew the smoke monster and chose those objects that the elder John would bring with him. Since he was a child he had a special connection with the island, but he didn't know it yet.
I believe the explanations are as follows: 1) The sand and the compass belong to the Island and John, that's clear. 2) By choosing the knife instead of the book, John did what he was doing his entire life: refusing to accept his natural gifts (he was more a mystic than a fighter or hunter) and trying to become someone different. 3) The Book of Laws may well be linked to all the rules that Jacob (also a Biblical name) imposed on the Others.
I think he saw the knife as one of the knives he would use in the future. The correct answer was the Book of Laws which is no doubt given to the leader. He never became their official leader so never received it. Therefore, he couldn't see it as belonging to him. Ben may have had prescience when tested, or cheated by using reasoning and psychology to figure out the correct answers from Richard's reactions and subliminal responses, like to tell how good a hand someone has in poker.
Oh my god. I now understand that all of those items have a meaning! 1) The baseball glove as Walt's and he used it to play catch with Vincent 2) The book of laws was from the others' camp 3) The vial of sand was from the island 4) The compass was passed on to Richard from time traveling Locke 5) The Spanish comic book was also Walt's. 6) Finally, the knife was John's from his suitcase on the plane. He also used the knife to teach Walt how to use it on the tree. EDIT: Here's the explanation as to why Richard got mad; *Spoilers* Young John picked the vial of sand from the island, which Locke had I believe. Then he picked the compass, which John Locke gave to Richard. Finally, young John picked the knife because it belonged to him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Richard didn't know Locke had a knife, so he was expecting young Locke to choose the Book Of Laws. Therefore, Richard got furious. Now, people speculate that Richard got mad either because of the above explanation, or he was somehow shaping what John Locke would eventually become. Note that older John Locke was used to rejection and people never noticed that he was truly special in the end, and that also developed a depressive mental disorder that John had before he died.
Why would Richard expect Locke to take the book of laws? (which was a clear allusion to Eko). Most of your theory is strong, but that part makes no sense. A knife seems to suggest John, and perhaps the darkest side of his nature (the obsession that got Boone killed, and John's calloused response to that), but THAT knife was very old, which suggests the man in black - which I'm assuming freaked Richard out because it implied predestination of being connected w/ MIB. I liked the subtle touch that Richard seemed to stack the deck in Locke's favour - first, by making the knife the only object placed on another object; second, by having the horrified face on the cover looking at / reaching toward the knife) - almost a kind of warning to try and steer Locke toward better choices. The logical extension of what you suggested (the glove, and comic book being Walt's) seems to lead to the true son / owner of the island being Walt, not Locke, which would be another reason to reject young John. (side Q, wasn't the comic Hurley's? I remember Walt and Hurley discussing it - but not who it originally belonged to)
LOL. Walt was not on the island in the 50s, he never time traveled, and Richard from the 50s never time traveled to the future. So no, that is not Walt's baseball glove.
Your explanation is too complicated. It is actually more simple than that. 1) The sand and the compass belong to the Island and John, that's clear. 2) By choosing the knife instead of the book, John did what he was doing his entire life: refusing to accept his natural gifts (he was more a mystic than a fighter or hunter) and trying to become someone different. 3) The Book of Laws may well be linked to all the rules that Jacob (also a Biblical name) imposed on the Others.
Fuck! That is why people don't understand the show. It is so simple..."which belongs to you already?" Locke Gave the compass to Richard prior his birth, so he wanted Locke to pick the compass, because that would mean that Old Locke on 50's was not lying.
For those who don't get it, Locke gives Richard the compass in 1954, but we don't see it happen on screen until season 5. So this scene won't make sense for quite a long time in terms of how the episodes play out. But chronologically, Richard had probably just been given the compass by old Locke recently, probably within a few years.
@@Zazzaro703 the year is 1961 so this was before Dharma and before the sub, Richard visited Locke both now and when he was born in 1956, the way he left is unknown
I can pretty much guarantee that very few people they watched the episode later in the series showing Locke give that compass to Richard remembered this scene.
Pretty sure it is intended as a test young Johns abilities/connection to the island and see if he is ready to join them there. The compass is from his future self, the sand is from the island which he correctly moves towards himself. With the way the camera pans with his eyes initially on the book of laws im assuming he was meant to pick that as well, them represents the laws in which the others follow (these laws would belong to Locke as lead). I dont remember the flashback parts before this with young John but im pretty sure he was being bullied which is why he looked at the knife and picked that up. I do remember when Richard tries to get teenage John to come to island for a science camp he turns it down because he was being bullied for being a nerd
I found it confusing but mostly _unnerving_ when showing that John drew *the smoke monster* that was on the island and doing *exactly* what it normally does, which is tunneling out of the ground and towering over it's prey if you know why, please don't tell me don't tell me, I don't like spoilers
Richard gave him an out "Are you sure," but he wasn't savvy enough to take the hint. I could see Ben cheating at this by reading Richard. It should have been double-blind with both not knowing the correct answers.
@@sandal_thong8631 this isn't a standard test and not something that's ever been asked of any other leadership candidate - Richard is testing John to see if there's anything special about him (he asks Jack about him too during the Dharma-period of season 5 and explains that he's met him a couple of times, both of which we see in this season 4 episode, and can't understand anything special about him) The tragic reveal by the end of season 5 (and to a degree season 6) is that John was never special and his even becoming leader is all due to MIB's manipulations; - it was MIB disguised as John that instructed Richard on what to tell time-travelling John (including that he'd have to die) and to give him the compass - it was MIB disguised as Christian that also reinforced a time-travelling John that he'd have to sacrifice himself to bring them all back (and fulfil the paradox whereby MIB takes his form) - time-travelling John gave Richard the compass in 1954 and explained that he was their leader in the future, planting that seed in Richard's head - Richard visited baby John and teenage John seeking answers but received none - Richard talks to Jack about Locke during their time in the 70's and Jack reinforces John's earlier story to Richard - when Richard finally meets with John following the crash, plans for him to become leader are already underway (and he has also already interacted with MIB in monster form), though he is then shot and left for dead by Ben - Locke's instructions for how to deal with the threat to the island in season 4 all comes from MIB disguised as Christian, pretending to be speaking on behalf of Jacob (the retcon in season 5 is also that Jacob was not involved in the season 3 cabin and its implied by Ilana's description that someone else has been using it that it was MIB) - when Locke finally returns to the others at the end of season 4, the island is moved and he is teleported away Locke is never successfully the leader of the others and the entire narrative of him being their leader is something MIB brought into existence through his manipulations. No other characters as ever predetermined to be the leader of the others - even Richard doubts the story the first time he hears it in 1954. Of the other leaders we know of, Charles and Eloise grew up as others and Ben joined the others very late into the game and only after Richard took interest in him upon learning that he'd been seeing his dead mother wandering the island (which season 6 then imports that Richard would be aware that MIB was interested in him). So to sum up, Ben was never subject to this test and this is a unique test by Richard to follow up on a time-travelling John giving him the compass 2 years prior.
@@Damon242 I can't disagree with most of what you said, other than your opening statement and conclusion which don't fit. It was stated that the test Richard gave was based on monks' testing children to see if they are the reincarnated Dalai Lama. While it may also have been used to test for prescience or psychic ability, the implication was that it was a test for leadership since only the leader would one day have the Book of Laws, which is the third correct answer (after island sand, and Locke's compass). I seem to recall Richard saying they have a specific test for leadership and this looks to be it, even if we didn't see him give it to Eloise, Charles or Ben. Because Locke never became the leader formally, he never received the Book of Laws, and hence couldn't have a psychic connection or prescience as a child to having the Book as one of his possessions as a grown man.
@@sandal_thong8631 'It was stated that the test Richard gave was based on monks' testing children to see if they are the reincarnated Dalai Lama' Inspiration aside, that is not this test and the only context ever given for this and all of Richard's appearances in this episode is after his meeting with John in 'Jughead'; the compass is literally the only thing on the table that actually belongs to John (a bootstrap paradox given to Richard by John) and the single instruction put forward by Richard in this test is to choose the thing that already belongs to him. Your argument about 'third correct answer' contradicts Richard's instruction - there is nothing to support that the answer involves more than one item and that it's up to John to put these in order. Richard asks John 'which of these items belongs to you already' ('belongs' attributes a third-person singular meaning that only one of the items), that is all. 'Because Locke never became the leader formally, he never received the Book of Laws' You have nothing from the series that substantiates that any leader of the others has ever or would ever receive a copy of the Book of Laws, this is a false premise that is driving your argument and it is not valid. Everything I have provided is canon to the series itself and uses only the events depicted on screen - I have not brought to the table any speculation outside of what is shown. Your personal headcanon does not supersede what the series itself contains.
For those who wondering why Richard left him and didn't take with him on island, the reason is being told in season 1 episode 7 "Moth" When Locke said to Charlie: " i can help this moth to emerge by widening the cocoon's opening with a knife, but it will be too weak and ill to survive. Struggling is nature's way of strengthening you" Locke needed his tough life and all that sh.t that had happened to him, for him to become the man he was.
@@5310yryr if he would choose compass, and Richard took him to Island, he wouldn't be able to meet his father who pushed him from window and then on the ground Jacob touched him, so whole chain of life events would've been broken. + His purpose was only to make Jack believer, which he did. So his purpose has been served.
@@5310yryr I don't think the test was to pick just one item. You don't check if someone is special by giving them a test with a 1 in 6 chance of accidentally getting it right.
@@BanzaiHeil It's 1/18 if you have to pick 3/6 items correctly, less if you don't know how many (0-6) are correct. Ben could do it with psychological training to help him read Richard's reactions (i.e. cheating). But Richard wasn't testing Locke to see if he was special, he was testing if he would be their future leader, hence the Book of Laws. Since he never became the official leader, he never got the Book of Laws, and so could not see it as his own. The reason he left him is told in another episode where Richard said he's checked up on Locke before (this test and as a newborn) and says he didn't pass or something.
Locke was never meant to lead the Island. He was meant to be an advisor to the leader, like Richard before him and Ben after him: a lost soul meant to channel their frustration into organising things so the leader could focus on empathy and helping people.
No. He was a candidate number 4 for replacing Jacob. But that didn't mean much other than being summoned to the island by Desmond (and predecessors) inputting his number every 109 minutes (duplicated by the radio transmission repeating his number) and being touched by Jacob, which prevented him from being killed directly by Smokey and maybe accidental harm. His purpose on the island was first to either keep Desmond pushing the button or do it for him, until Desmond was ready to turn the key. Second, to set in motion the time loop by fixing the donkey wheel that Ben got off its axis. The MiB, looking like him, left the Barracks for the Orchid, turned into Christian and convinced Locke to go through with it, at a time-jump after the Ajira flight had arrived. So it was already a done deal that Ben killed him.
@@sandal_thong8631 Not everything that's meant to happen happens, and not everything that happens is meant to happen. Locke would have been a better consigliere than leader, but because of his choices that ended up not being his destiny.
People in this comment thread are talking about Locke time traveling - he gives Richard the compass so it would make sense that is his, and he would select it. I have a different take. I believe the point of Richard seeing the drawing was that MIB sees John as special as Jacob/Richard, and has somehow made contact with John’s subconscious at an early age. After all, we know what Smokey needs John for in later seasons. Notice the picture: the smoke monster atop someone’s seemingly dead body. Locke later on? And I think the reason that Richard is so upset that John chose the knife, was because it foreshadows a violent side of him, and shows he’s lying, when he mostly seems like a good, pure soul, connected with nature. Remember what Bernard’s reason for not following Locke was: “Because he’s a murderer.” That’s actually true, but we don’t think about it much because we’re wrapped up in his sad backstory and his character development.
Smokey couldn't leave the island. This suggests that young Locke was having psychic connections to the island or of his future at a young age. Richard said the knife was the wrong answer. The Book of Laws was the correct answer for being their future leader since the leader would take possession of it. Since Locke never did, young Locke could not have a psychic connection to it. But Ben, if given the same test with similar or different objects, could cheat and deduce the book was important to the leader as well as use psychological training to interpret Richard's subliminal responses to the various objects he would show Ben.
He actually wanted him to choose the compass, since Locke gave it to him when the Time Travelled to the 50's. When he didnt choose it, he realized that Locke was telling the truth
because the book of laws is something that belongs to the others. if he had picked the book that would have changed everything and alpert would have taken him to the island where he says to adult locke at one point that he was destined to grow up and be their leader one day. so when he chose the knife that showed he wasnt ready to go with him.
What I like is the reason Young Locke has drawn the picture of Smoke Monster etc.. is because when Older Locke time travelled, those memories would have been flooded into Young Lockes head, like dreams.
Officer Dibbles likely just coincidence, you see those sorts of drawings made by children all of the time. For Richard though, he was looking for a sign
He should have choose the compass instead of the knife, because he had to choose all the items that were on the island or something like that. He would have pass but he chose the knife because he wanted to be cool and not a freak. It was addresed later, he was more interested in socialization than just studying like a nerd, so he wanted to do cool things so others would acknowledge him. It was always his weakness that he wanted the admiration of others.
@@Kupor23 but he did choose the compass. The book of laws is a Other thing, Locke did own that knife. Richard was just unaware and thought John must’ve owned the Book of Law at some point as the leader of the others. Richard is living things in chronological order he doesn’t know that Lockes stint as leader of the others was a very short lived thing.
Im guessing when John was traveling thriugh time. Same with the other survivors. Their younger selves probably had vivid dreams of what was happening on fne island.
Luc Cayrac because the younger him had memories of the older him due to all the time traveling. That's why Richard got so mad because the right answer would've been the compass
Richard came to test whether or not Locke was special, based on the discussion he had with Locke during the 1950's. He expected Locke to choose the compass, but when he didn't, Richard was frustrated as there continued to be no sign that this man was anything special and worth being a leader.
He chose the compass, but didn't choose the Book of Laws, which would be in the possession of every leader. Since Locke was never their official leader, he never received it, and so the somewhat-psychic kid didn't read it as his own. But perhaps he perceived that knives would one day be his thing, though he never owned that knife.
@@sandal_thong8631 Richard asks John to choose the thing that already belongs to him and this in season 4 - in season 5 we see Richard's first meeting with John in 1954 when he is given the compass and asked to seek John out in 2 years when he is born (we also see this scene in the same season 4 episode with Richard visiting an infant John in the hospital early into the episode). Of note too in this season 4 scene, John chooses the knife and not the compass which is what frustrates Richard.
@@Damon242 2:38 He chooses the compass as the 2nd of three! Watch the clip before you say something so ignorant again and again and again. HE CHOSE THE COMPASS!
@@sandal_thong8631 and then he put the compass down - it's the knife that John actually chooses and Richard reconfirms with him if he's sure that the knife is what belongs to him (perhaps you should watch the clip again) Look, I'm not here to suffer insults from you - if you have a genuine argument to offer and not just conjecture then please share your evidence (starting with your claim that every leader of the others would possess the Book of Laws)
If Richard just took John here then the plane would never have crashed and John would have taken over for Jacob and a lot of lives would have been saved
I never understood the compass paradox. Where did it come from? Locke (MIB?) gave the compass to Richard to give to young Locke, he later gave it to adult Locke, just for Locke to give it back to Richard in the past? I don’t get it.
MIB was playing the long con of making both Richard and Jon Locke think John was special just so MIV could use John's body to gain access to Jacob In S6 MIB John gave the compass to Richard to give to time travelling John so he can give the compass to Richard in the past so that Richard will think John is special Which worked Because in 1954 when John gave Richard the compass Richard was convinced that John was special because A. He knew about Jacob, B He said he was their leader, C. He was a time Traveller that literally disappeared in Richard's very eyes, D. He told Richard to confirm he's a time Traveller by coming to visit him So that was MIB's plan to get Richard to think John is special in 1954 and to make John think he's special through Richard in 2007 Now that it was established that John was very special it was the perfect time to use John's boy to gain access to Jacob so that he can find a loophole to kill him without anybody questioning his intentions because everybody will believe that John is special and knows what he's doing It was a long con that paid off in the end Because the entire point of everything was that John was never special None of them were... lmao That's why John couldn't tell that the compass was his own in this video .. because there was no way for him to actually know what he already owned. that's why Richard was frustrated We could also see Richard's frustration in 1977 when he told Jack that he has not seen anything special about John even though he saw him in 1954 and 1956 But Jack convinced Richard to believe in John that he is actually special because of what Jack had been through that period So the game continued because Richard still believed in John till 2004 when they crashed on the island because of Jack. Lmao The writers are too good
The compass is Doctor Who "timey-wimey," like in the Doctor Who episode where he says imagine if you heard Beethoven's music then went back in time to meet Beethoven and found he didn't exist (which supposedly can happen). Then where did the music you heard come from? That's the compass.
Well I assume they planned ahead with the island disappearing in the end of season 4 what that could do to the people on the island. Plus, they could have just thrown it in there and realised in season 5 that they had an opportunity to connect it so they did. Plus, as stated in the series, you can't change the past. So this always happened as John and co. always went to the island, the island was always moved and John was always sent back to tell Richard about it so that he would become the leader.
Because, in the fictional world of the show, Richard Alpert was living these events in chronological sequence. He wasn't watching them on TV in seasons like us.
As much as i love LOST, this scene make no sense... How could possibly young Locke know about his older-self actions? Or others leader supposed to see future? None of these things belong to Locke yet...
He gave richard the compass when he traveled in time, richard wanted him to pick it to see if he was truly "special". Richard got mad when he didn't pick it, end.
Richard is upset because he was under the impression that John had special powers, which from his perspective makes sense, since he witnessed adult John time travel right in front of him. But when he visits young John and he chooses the incorrect item (only the compass was his, which he later gave to Richard) he is disappointed because he thought John might be special. But in reality he's just a normal guy who through coincidence, luck and MIB intervening was able to convince people he was special.
@@GlassesAndCoffeeMugs Wrong. He was looking for a future leader, as John Locke claimed to be. The sand from the island and the compass had apparently been in Locke's possession or counted as correct answers. The Book of Laws was the third correct answer because only the Leader would own the Book. However, John was never officially anointed as the Leader, therefore he never received the Book, and so Young John couldn't get a psychic reading off of it as owning it in the future. This disappointed Richard, despite evidence of him having a vision of Smokey attacking someone. Later he would be healed on the island, and had dreams and visions, indicating he was special and important to the island. He was indeed important to the island's survival, making sure Desmond and others kept pushing the button until Desmond was ready to turn the key. And to fix the donkey wheel and thus complete the time loop. If he didn't do those two things, the island would probably explode or something, taking the world with it.
How many stupid people can watch this clip and think Locke did NOT choose the compass? He chose the compass, the sand and the knife, with the first two being correct answers and the third not, because he didn't own that knife personally (though he would be into knives) and never owned The Book of Laws, which a leader of the Others would possess if he were really their future leader. His psychic abilities to draw the Smoke Monster and get two correct answers wouldn't have helped him with the Book, because he never received it from them.
Watch this scene. ua-cam.com/video/4PAunulIVIY/v-deo.html anything but the compass was the wrong choice. Because Locke time traveled and gave the compass to Richard and told him to visit him as a kid. Richard was just testing to see if the young Locke knew about it yet. Which he didn’t.
![LOST: Locke sees himself at the Beechcraft [5x15 - Follow the Leader]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pQwkT_4mvj0/mqdefault.jpg)
Imagine how much better Johns life would have been if he was taken to the Island then.
But the survivors of 815 would’ve been doomed
Good for Them
Remember his quote from s1e7 "The Moth" when he spoke to charlie about life and struggling as a way of making you stronger.
He needed his tough life to become what he was.
ua-cam.com/video/b2-psZD4nzc/v-deo.html
I liked to imagine if Locke had done things differently. But on important issues it was already fated to happen the way it happened because of the time loop. Perhaps he could have avoided murdering Naomi, since she'd already been wounded and the island would have let her die after it served her purpose.
@@anonymousfx5254that's a perfect response
Lol, Richard booking it out of there like he's missing movie night on the island.
He was supposed to choose the compass because that is what John gave Richard when he was time travelling so it already belonged to him.
Captain obvious has bestowed his wisdom..
@@apple54345 , Well you'll be surprised at how many people struggle with things like that.
@@apple54345 To be honest I watched the show so many years ago (I think like almost a decade ago) that I don't remember scene with Richard and compass, so I didn't know what this was about. I thought he was trying to establish what is close to Lock and choosing knife symbolized violent tendencies (not that others are exactly pacifists) but I thought Richard was expecting more of of him.
Not exactly. It was Smokey who gave it to Alpert to give to John IIRC
I was always under the impression that he had to choose 3 things, the compass (obviously), the sand to represent the island and then the Book of Laws for Order.
Richard tested the boy to see if the time travelling John Locke was telling the truth, once he realised he was, he knew he was about to have a lot of trouble in his hands
No, he Assumed Without Communicating
The test was simple after time travelling John. Alpert couldn't believe that happened so he canceled the test and left.
No, the correct answer was sand (or ash) from the island, the compass (which existed only in the time loop), and the Book of Laws. Unfortunately, John Locke was never their official leader, so was never given the Book of Laws. (This was a test to see if he would become one of their leaders.) From his perspective he learned about knives in his far future, but it was wrong because it wasn't one of Locke's personal knives.
Somehow Benjamin Linus passed the test, which has a 1/18 chance if you knew that 3/6 of the items were correct (less if 0-6 items were the correct answer). Ben had a vision of his dead mother, and was healed by the water in the temple, so could have had a psychic connection to pass the test. Or he could have cheated by being more savvy than John (perhaps being a natural psychologist and manipulator) and deduced as well as read from Richard's reactions what the correct answers were.
A normal psychological experiment would have it double-blind, so both the subject and the researcher are unaware of the correct answers until opening an envelope or sending the subject's answers back to HQ.
@@sandal_thong8631 this still doesn't explain why Richard got mad. If I were him, I would've been like 'oh well, guess that bald fellow lied' and quietly left.
@@sandal_thong8631wowwwwww👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I think John has always had that special "feeling" or "sixth sense" since he was a child when he drew the smoke monster and chose those objects that the elder John would bring with him.
Since he was a child he had a special connection with the island, but he didn't know it yet.
I believe the explanations are as follows:
1) The sand and the compass belong to the Island and John, that's clear.
2) By choosing the knife instead of the book, John did what he was doing his entire life: refusing to accept his natural gifts (he was more a mystic than a fighter or hunter) and trying to become someone different.
3) The Book of Laws may well be linked to all the rules that Jacob (also a Biblical name) imposed on the Others.
I think he saw the knife as one of the knives he would use in the future. The correct answer was the Book of Laws which is no doubt given to the leader. He never became their official leader so never received it. Therefore, he couldn't see it as belonging to him. Ben may have had prescience when tested, or cheated by using reasoning and psychology to figure out the correct answers from Richard's reactions and subliminal responses, like to tell how good a hand someone has in poker.
It would have been fun if young Locke at the end have say to his mother "don't tell me what I can't choose!"
Poor little John... I love this character
They did a good casting job! That actor definitley looks like a young John!
No he don't. He looks like he will still have hair in 50 yrs.
@@TheSantachyou have no idea what are you talking about... You can have a lot of hair in 20s and be bald by 30..
The other actor also looks just like a young Richard!
@@GermaphobeMusic lol
He choose the knife AND the monster was on a draw.
So much foreshadowing
the writes for lost are MASTERS!
They were good but they had way too much over their heads eventually , this was perfect tho
Twelve year olds could have written this such a crap show
I miss this show.
So I guess Richard shaped the future Locke.
Oh my god. I now understand that all of those items have a meaning!
1) The baseball glove as Walt's and he used it to play catch with Vincent
2) The book of laws was from the others' camp
3) The vial of sand was from the island
4) The compass was passed on to Richard from time traveling Locke
5) The Spanish comic book was also Walt's.
6) Finally, the knife was John's from his suitcase on the plane. He also used the knife to teach Walt how to use it on the tree.
EDIT: Here's the explanation as to why Richard got mad;
*Spoilers*
Young John picked the vial of sand from the island, which Locke had I believe. Then he picked the compass, which John Locke gave to Richard. Finally, young John picked the knife because it belonged to him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Richard didn't know Locke had a knife, so he was expecting young Locke to choose the Book Of Laws. Therefore, Richard got furious. Now, people speculate that Richard got mad either because of the above explanation, or he was somehow shaping what John Locke would eventually become. Note that older John Locke was used to rejection and people never noticed that he was truly special in the end, and that also developed a depressive mental disorder that John had before he died.
Why would Richard expect Locke to take the book of laws? (which was a clear allusion to Eko). Most of your theory is strong, but that part makes no sense. A knife seems to suggest John, and perhaps the darkest side of his nature (the obsession that got Boone killed, and John's calloused response to that), but THAT knife was very old, which suggests the man in black - which I'm assuming freaked Richard out because it implied predestination of being connected w/ MIB.
I liked the subtle touch that Richard seemed to stack the deck in Locke's favour - first, by making the knife the only object placed on another object; second, by having the horrified face on the cover looking at / reaching toward the knife) - almost a kind of warning to try and steer Locke toward better choices.
The logical extension of what you suggested (the glove, and comic book being Walt's) seems to lead to the true son / owner of the island being Walt, not Locke, which would be another reason to reject young John.
(side Q, wasn't the comic Hurley's? I remember Walt and Hurley discussing it - but not who it originally belonged to)
LOL. Walt was not on the island in the 50s, he never time traveled, and Richard from the 50s never time traveled to the future. So no, that is not Walt's baseball glove.
Your explanation is too complicated. It is actually more simple than that.
1) The sand and the compass belong to the Island and John, that's clear.
2) By choosing the knife instead of the book, John did what he was doing his entire life: refusing to accept his natural gifts (he was more a mystic than a fighter or hunter) and trying to become someone different.
3) The Book of Laws may well be linked to all the rules that Jacob (also a Biblical name) imposed on the Others.
Fuck! That is why people don't understand the show. It is so simple..."which belongs to you already?"
Locke Gave the compass to Richard prior his birth, so he wanted Locke to pick the compass, because that would mean that Old Locke on 50's was not lying.
@@heitorabdias2212
John picked three things, among them was compass.
So i think you are also....LOST
I love how later you learn that Richard is as mind fucked by the whole thing as anyone, despite appearing to be entirely in the know initially.
For those who don't get it, Locke gives Richard the compass in 1954, but we don't see it happen on screen until season 5. So this scene won't make sense for quite a long time in terms of how the episodes play out. But chronologically, Richard had probably just been given the compass by old Locke recently, probably within a few years.
How he left the island to meet little john
@@ziadnaieem1597 the sub. Same way Tom left the island too and we saw him on the main land.
@@Zazzaro703 the year is 1961 so this was before Dharma and before the sub, Richard visited Locke both now and when he was born in 1956, the way he left is unknown
I can pretty much guarantee that very few people they watched the episode later in the series showing Locke give that compass to Richard remembered this scene.
I'd love to see a timeline video of the whole compass time travel thing in chronological order.
You can watch Chronologically LOST
@@0leg0101 where can I watch it ?
@@gtrevizan_ you have to illegally torrent it lol. I’ll send you a link. I think I uploaded the whole thing to a google drive
@@0leg0101please please please can you give me the drive too 😭😭😭
I love the little tie in"s, like Backgammon here and John playing it on the Island!
Richie is the best Character
+kappelmeister123 And his name is Richard, not Ricardo.
+kappelmeister123 Hes 160 years old, he's been alive since 1860's
@@mathiasalexander4444 No, his name was literally Ricardo.
So Richard assume that young John had already that compass?
Pretty sure it is intended as a test young Johns abilities/connection to the island and see if he is ready to join them there. The compass is from his future self, the sand is from the island which he correctly moves towards himself. With the way the camera pans with his eyes initially on the book of laws im assuming he was meant to pick that as well, them represents the laws in which the others follow (these laws would belong to Locke as lead).
I dont remember the flashback parts before this with young John but im pretty sure he was being bullied which is why he looked at the knife and picked that up. I do remember when Richard tries to get teenage John to come to island for a science camp he turns it down because he was being bullied for being a nerd
@@exiaR2x78 Interesting!
Yes because John gave it to Richard in the past
@@doct0rnic And Richard met him and gave it to him. So it only existed between the two gives, thus signifying the time loop.
I found it confusing but mostly _unnerving_ when showing that John drew *the smoke monster* that was on the island and doing *exactly* what it normally does, which is tunneling out of the ground and towering over it's prey
if you know why, please don't tell me don't tell me, I don't like spoilers
Actually John picked everything he owned
He didn't personally own that knife. Just knives throughout his life, and knives he brought to Australia.
This is actually how they find a new Dalai Lama in Tibet.
Lmfao
@@joeysfather2723 i don't think that was a joke lol
apple54345 oh it is a joke!
It might be true, doesn’t make it not a joke.
@@jimmy2k4o there is huge similarities between lost and the tibeten book of the dead.
i finally get this scene !! Omg the writers of this show are freakin amazing
Ending still sucks though
Zain, that is your opinion and I'm going to have to disagree with you on that
Can you explain this scene please
George it wasn’t great
Once I learned they were stuck in a time-loop and didn't have much free will, the first five seasons sucked. Only in the end do they have free will.
It was the compass!
How does Locke not remember this?
Do you remember everything from when you were 10?
I would definitely remember a weird fucking encounter like this.
he probably remembers, but no way he could recall the man's face, he saw him like for a few minutes, 40 years ago.
but he chose the compass!...and the sand...then richard expected him to choose the book of laws but he chose the knife instead...
He observed the other items, but he chose the knife. That's why he grabs it and then looks up at richard
Richard gave him an out "Are you sure," but he wasn't savvy enough to take the hint. I could see Ben cheating at this by reading Richard. It should have been double-blind with both not knowing the correct answers.
@@sandal_thong8631 this isn't a standard test and not something that's ever been asked of any other leadership candidate - Richard is testing John to see if there's anything special about him (he asks Jack about him too during the Dharma-period of season 5 and explains that he's met him a couple of times, both of which we see in this season 4 episode, and can't understand anything special about him)
The tragic reveal by the end of season 5 (and to a degree season 6) is that John was never special and his even becoming leader is all due to MIB's manipulations;
- it was MIB disguised as John that instructed Richard on what to tell time-travelling John (including that he'd have to die) and to give him the compass
- it was MIB disguised as Christian that also reinforced a time-travelling John that he'd have to sacrifice himself to bring them all back (and fulfil the paradox whereby MIB takes his form)
- time-travelling John gave Richard the compass in 1954 and explained that he was their leader in the future, planting that seed in Richard's head
- Richard visited baby John and teenage John seeking answers but received none
- Richard talks to Jack about Locke during their time in the 70's and Jack reinforces John's earlier story to Richard
- when Richard finally meets with John following the crash, plans for him to become leader are already underway (and he has also already interacted with MIB in monster form), though he is then shot and left for dead by Ben
- Locke's instructions for how to deal with the threat to the island in season 4 all comes from MIB disguised as Christian, pretending to be speaking on behalf of Jacob (the retcon in season 5 is also that Jacob was not involved in the season 3 cabin and its implied by Ilana's description that someone else has been using it that it was MIB)
- when Locke finally returns to the others at the end of season 4, the island is moved and he is teleported away
Locke is never successfully the leader of the others and the entire narrative of him being their leader is something MIB brought into existence through his manipulations.
No other characters as ever predetermined to be the leader of the others - even Richard doubts the story the first time he hears it in 1954. Of the other leaders we know of, Charles and Eloise grew up as others and Ben joined the others very late into the game and only after Richard took interest in him upon learning that he'd been seeing his dead mother wandering the island (which season 6 then imports that Richard would be aware that MIB was interested in him).
So to sum up, Ben was never subject to this test and this is a unique test by Richard to follow up on a time-travelling John giving him the compass 2 years prior.
@@Damon242 I can't disagree with most of what you said, other than your opening statement and conclusion which don't fit. It was stated that the test Richard gave was based on monks' testing children to see if they are the reincarnated Dalai Lama. While it may also have been used to test for prescience or psychic ability, the implication was that it was a test for leadership since only the leader would one day have the Book of Laws, which is the third correct answer (after island sand, and Locke's compass). I seem to recall Richard saying they have a specific test for leadership and this looks to be it, even if we didn't see him give it to Eloise, Charles or Ben.
Because Locke never became the leader formally, he never received the Book of Laws, and hence couldn't have a psychic connection or prescience as a child to having the Book as one of his possessions as a grown man.
@@sandal_thong8631 'It was stated that the test Richard gave was based on monks' testing children to see if they are the reincarnated Dalai Lama'
Inspiration aside, that is not this test and the only context ever given for this and all of Richard's appearances in this episode is after his meeting with John in 'Jughead'; the compass is literally the only thing on the table that actually belongs to John (a bootstrap paradox given to Richard by John) and the single instruction put forward by Richard in this test is to choose the thing that already belongs to him.
Your argument about 'third correct answer' contradicts Richard's instruction - there is nothing to support that the answer involves more than one item and that it's up to John to put these in order. Richard asks John 'which of these items belongs to you already' ('belongs' attributes a third-person singular meaning that only one of the items), that is all.
'Because Locke never became the leader formally, he never received the Book of Laws'
You have nothing from the series that substantiates that any leader of the others has ever or would ever receive a copy of the Book of Laws, this is a false premise that is driving your argument and it is not valid.
Everything I have provided is canon to the series itself and uses only the events depicted on screen - I have not brought to the table any speculation outside of what is shown.
Your personal headcanon does not supersede what the series itself contains.
that bald-ass stick figure is a pretty good likeness of future Locke #BestCharacterEver
I wonder how much this visit fueled John’s belief system later in life.
Compass was a clever trick by the Smoke Monster.
For those who wondering why Richard left him and didn't take with him on island, the reason is being told in season 1 episode 7 "Moth"
When Locke said to Charlie: " i can help this moth to emerge by widening the cocoon's opening with a knife, but it will be too weak and ill to survive. Struggling is nature's way of strengthening you"
Locke needed his tough life and all that sh.t that had happened to him, for him to become the man he was.
No, its cuz he picked the knife and not the compass.
@@5310yryr if he would choose compass, and Richard took him to Island, he wouldn't be able to meet his father who pushed him from window and then on the ground Jacob touched him, so whole chain of life events would've been broken.
+ His purpose was only to make Jack believer, which he did. So his purpose has been served.
@@5310yryr I don't think the test was to pick just one item. You don't check if someone is special by giving them a test with a 1 in 6 chance of accidentally getting it right.
@@BanzaiHeil It's 1/18 if you have to pick 3/6 items correctly, less if you don't know how many (0-6) are correct. Ben could do it with psychological training to help him read Richard's reactions (i.e. cheating). But Richard wasn't testing Locke to see if he was special, he was testing if he would be their future leader, hence the Book of Laws. Since he never became the official leader, he never got the Book of Laws, and so could not see it as his own.
The reason he left him is told in another episode where Richard said he's checked up on Locke before (this test and as a newborn) and says he didn't pass or something.
Locke was never meant to lead the Island. He was meant to be an advisor to the leader, like Richard before him and Ben after him: a lost soul meant to channel their frustration into organising things so the leader could focus on empathy and helping people.
No. He was a candidate number 4 for replacing Jacob. But that didn't mean much other than being summoned to the island by Desmond (and predecessors) inputting his number every 109 minutes (duplicated by the radio transmission repeating his number) and being touched by Jacob, which prevented him from being killed directly by Smokey and maybe accidental harm.
His purpose on the island was first to either keep Desmond pushing the button or do it for him, until Desmond was ready to turn the key. Second, to set in motion the time loop by fixing the donkey wheel that Ben got off its axis. The MiB, looking like him, left the Barracks for the Orchid, turned into Christian and convinced Locke to go through with it, at a time-jump after the Ajira flight had arrived. So it was already a done deal that Ben killed him.
@@sandal_thong8631 Not everything that's meant to happen happens, and not everything that happens is meant to happen. Locke would have been a better consigliere than leader, but because of his choices that ended up not being his destiny.
he was so cute!!
It’s time traveling Locke giving the compass
1:19 - he knew about Smoke Monster before he's ever met with it.
Richard is my man
People in this comment thread are talking about Locke time traveling - he gives Richard the compass so it would make sense that is his, and he would select it.
I have a different take. I believe the point of Richard seeing the drawing was that MIB sees John as special as Jacob/Richard, and has somehow made contact with John’s subconscious at an early age. After all, we know what Smokey needs John for in later seasons. Notice the picture: the smoke monster atop someone’s seemingly dead body. Locke later on? And I think the reason that Richard is so upset that John chose the knife, was because it foreshadows a violent side of him, and shows he’s lying, when he mostly seems like a good, pure soul, connected with nature. Remember what Bernard’s reason for not following Locke was: “Because he’s a murderer.” That’s actually true, but we don’t think about it much because we’re wrapped up in his sad backstory and his character development.
Technically it was Rose who didn't want to follow Locke, but otherwise I love your interpretation.
No, Richard doesn’t know the knife is John’s.
Smokey couldn't leave the island. This suggests that young Locke was having psychic connections to the island or of his future at a young age.
Richard said the knife was the wrong answer. The Book of Laws was the correct answer for being their future leader since the leader would take possession of it. Since Locke never did, young Locke could not have a psychic connection to it. But Ben, if given the same test with similar or different objects, could cheat and deduce the book was important to the leader as well as use psychological training to interpret Richard's subliminal responses to the various objects he would show Ben.
I don't understand why Richard got so mad.
he wanted him to choose the book of laws
why?
He actually wanted him to choose the compass, since Locke gave it to him when the Time Travelled to the 50's. When he didnt choose it, he realized that Locke was telling the truth
because the book of laws is something that belongs to the others. if he had picked the book that would have changed everything and alpert would have taken him to the island where he says to adult locke at one point that he was destined to grow up and be their leader one day. so when he chose the knife that showed he wasnt ready to go with him.
and you can see clearly he chose the compass right after the vial of sand lol
What I like is the reason Young Locke has drawn the picture of Smoke Monster etc.. is because when Older Locke time travelled, those memories would have been flooded into Young Lockes head, like dreams.
Officer Dibbles likely just coincidence, you see those sorts of drawings made by children all of the time. For Richard though, he was looking for a sign
@@Damon242 That was clearly the monster :)
@@giada951Looks like your mom
Thanks!
I still can't understand what was Richard's problem...
He should have choose the compass instead of the knife, because he had to choose all the items that were on the island or something like that. He would have pass but he chose the knife because he wanted to be cool and not a freak. It was addresed later, he was more interested in socialization than just studying like a nerd, so he wanted to do cool things so others would acknowledge him. It was always his weakness that he wanted the admiration of others.
@@Kupor23 but he did choose the compass. The book of laws is a Other thing, Locke did own that knife. Richard was just unaware and thought John must’ve owned the Book of Law at some point as the leader of the others. Richard is living things in chronological order he doesn’t know that Lockes stint as leader of the others was a very short lived thing.
Why choosing a knife was a wrong choice???
Im guessing when John was traveling thriugh time. Same with the other survivors. Their younger selves probably had vivid dreams of what was happening on fne island.
Its kind of like when the aliens come through the wall as a child . Might as well not say anything after the testing .
Thank you for this ^^
How did John Locke know about the smoke monster? this scene is very weird
Luc Cayrac because the younger him had memories of the older him due to all the time traveling. That's why Richard got so mad because the right answer would've been the compass
@@johnnybravo8129 John did choose the compass.
Richard came to test whether or not Locke was special, based on the discussion he had with Locke during the 1950's.
He expected Locke to choose the compass, but when he didn't, Richard was frustrated as there continued to be no sign that this man was anything special and worth being a leader.
stupid
He chose the compass, but didn't choose the Book of Laws, which would be in the possession of every leader. Since Locke was never their official leader, he never received it, and so the somewhat-psychic kid didn't read it as his own. But perhaps he perceived that knives would one day be his thing, though he never owned that knife.
@@sandal_thong8631 Richard asks John to choose the thing that already belongs to him and this in season 4 - in season 5 we see Richard's first meeting with John in 1954 when he is given the compass and asked to seek John out in 2 years when he is born (we also see this scene in the same season 4 episode with Richard visiting an infant John in the hospital early into the episode).
Of note too in this season 4 scene, John chooses the knife and not the compass which is what frustrates Richard.
@@Damon242 2:38 He chooses the compass as the 2nd of three! Watch the clip before you say something so ignorant again and again and again. HE CHOSE THE COMPASS!
@@sandal_thong8631 and then he put the compass down - it's the knife that John actually chooses and Richard reconfirms with him if he's sure that the knife is what belongs to him (perhaps you should watch the clip again)
Look, I'm not here to suffer insults from you - if you have a genuine argument to offer and not just conjecture then please share your evidence (starting with your claim that every leader of the others would possess the Book of Laws)
Well John isn't the Avatar I know that for sure.
If Richard just took John here then the plane would never have crashed and John would have taken over for Jacob and a lot of lives would have been saved
I never understood the compass paradox. Where did it come from? Locke (MIB?) gave the compass to Richard to give to young Locke, he later gave it to adult Locke, just for Locke to give it back to Richard in the past? I don’t get it.
MIB was playing the long con of making both Richard and Jon Locke think John was special just so MIV could use John's body to gain access to Jacob
In S6 MIB John gave the compass to Richard to give to time travelling John so he can give the compass to Richard in the past so that Richard will think John is special
Which worked
Because in 1954 when John gave Richard the compass Richard was convinced that John was special because A. He knew about Jacob, B He said he was their leader, C. He was a time Traveller that literally disappeared in Richard's very eyes, D. He told Richard to confirm he's a time Traveller by coming to visit him
So that was MIB's plan to get Richard to think John is special in 1954 and to make John think he's special through Richard in 2007
Now that it was established that John was very special it was the perfect time to use John's boy to gain access to Jacob so that he can find a loophole to kill him without anybody questioning his intentions because everybody will believe that John is special and knows what he's doing
It was a long con that paid off in the end
Because the entire point of everything was that John was never special
None of them were... lmao
That's why John couldn't tell that the compass was his own in this video .. because there was no way for him to actually know what he already owned. that's why Richard was frustrated
We could also see Richard's frustration in 1977 when he told Jack that he has not seen anything special about John even though he saw him in 1954 and 1956
But Jack convinced Richard to believe in John that he is actually special because of what Jack had been through that period
So the game continued because Richard still believed in John till 2004 when they crashed on the island because of Jack.
Lmao
The writers are too good
The compass is Doctor Who "timey-wimey," like in the Doctor Who episode where he says imagine if you heard Beethoven's music then went back in time to meet Beethoven and found he didn't exist (which supposedly can happen). Then where did the music you heard come from? That's the compass.
@@danielpeters2501They literally ruined the ending.
How come he knew in season 4 that they were time travelling? if this happened in season 5? They went back time in season 5, i don't get it at all.
Well I assume they planned ahead with the island disappearing in the end of season 4 what that could do to the people on the island. Plus, they could have just thrown it in there and realised in season 5 that they had an opportunity to connect it so they did. Plus, as stated in the series, you can't change the past. So this always happened as John and co. always went to the island, the island was always moved and John was always sent back to tell Richard about it so that he would become the leader.
Because, in the fictional world of the show, Richard Alpert was living these events in chronological sequence. He wasn't watching them on TV in seasons like us.
Lol. This is a tv show. The actors play like writers tells them.
The only part that doesn't make sense is the drawing. Does that mean hes already having dreams like those he had on the island?
Likely yes, emphasised more by the time traveling aspect I'd assume.
As much as i love LOST, this scene make no sense... How could possibly young Locke know about his older-self actions? Or others leader supposed to see future? None of these things belong to Locke yet...
He gave richard the compass when he traveled in time, richard wanted him to pick it to see if he was truly "special". Richard got mad when he didn't pick it, end.
Ricky Ray he actually picked the compass
He didn't pick wrong. Just saying.
What was this test about? Why did it upset Richard?
Richard is upset because he was under the impression that John had special powers, which from his perspective makes sense, since he witnessed adult John time travel right in front of him. But when he visits young John and he chooses the incorrect item (only the compass was his, which he later gave to Richard) he is disappointed because he thought John might be special. But in reality he's just a normal guy who through coincidence, luck and MIB intervening was able to convince people he was special.
@@GlassesAndCoffeeMugs Wrong. He was looking for a future leader, as John Locke claimed to be. The sand from the island and the compass had apparently been in Locke's possession or counted as correct answers. The Book of Laws was the third correct answer because only the Leader would own the Book. However, John was never officially anointed as the Leader, therefore he never received the Book, and so Young John couldn't get a psychic reading off of it as owning it in the future. This disappointed Richard, despite evidence of him having a vision of Smokey attacking someone.
Later he would be healed on the island, and had dreams and visions, indicating he was special and important to the island. He was indeed important to the island's survival, making sure Desmond and others kept pushing the button until Desmond was ready to turn the key. And to fix the donkey wheel and thus complete the time loop. If he didn't do those two things, the island would probably explode or something, taking the world with it.
Probably a repressed childhood memory.
why was he so pissed?
Wow, great thoughts there! Thanks brother! Very deep stuff and it makes sense now
+Bruno Carvalho I love that explanation! I was worried that Richard was disappointed in John's choice and was viewing him as a mistake! :')
nes trailer of Infinite just copyed this
i knowalways think ahead
i dont get!!
Matheus Cardoso he was testing him to see what memories of His older self he was getting
How many stupid people can watch this clip and think Locke did NOT choose the compass?
He chose the compass, the sand and the knife, with the first two being correct answers and the third not, because he didn't own that knife personally (though he would be into knives) and never owned The Book of Laws, which a leader of the Others would possess if he were really their future leader. His psychic abilities to draw the Smoke Monster and get two correct answers wouldn't have helped him with the Book, because he never received it from them.
Why choosing a knife was a wrong choice???
Watch this scene. ua-cam.com/video/4PAunulIVIY/v-deo.html anything but the compass was the wrong choice. Because Locke time traveled and gave the compass to Richard and told him to visit him as a kid. Richard was just testing to see if the young Locke knew about it yet. Which he didn’t.
@@johnnybravo8129 locke did choose the compass along with the vial of sand.