The comment at the 35 minute mark does touch on a serious issue with upgrading mains supplies but ignores solar and battery solutions for that depot. This video is one year old and now but since then more businesses are installing solar and batteries to supplement their power supplies from a limiting mains supply. For larger long distance vehicles battery swapping seems to be a solution being introduced in places such as Australia and New Zealand.
a useful discussion. For comparison, Tesla claims that its BEV semi truck with its 1MWh battery will have a 500 mile ( ~ 800km) range. The battery is likely to weigh around 5 tons although that will reduce over time to ~ 3.5 ton. Total truck weight limits are ~ 40ton, so the overall tractor weight will be about 25% of that. There is certainly an argument that long range ( eg 1200+ km) EV trucks will be needed in Europe for the longest routes, which are heavily used. Daimler and Volvo Truck have jointly created cellcentric to develop long range ( 1000 - 1200+ km) liquid hydrogen (LH2) powered FCEVs for this purpose so there must be at least an outline commercial case for them. LH2 has also got potential for some aviation and energy storage applications so there may be sufficient demand to liquify hydrogen at scale so as to make it viable.
do you have an answer to the cuestion where are we going to get all the water we need to electrolize, the power to do it and what are we going to do with the "residue" of O2 that weights more than twice the amount of H2 we are supossed to get?
Just to set the record straight: the Tesla Semi does NOT have a 1 MWh battery, but a ca. 850 kWh one! It ALREADY weighs hardly more than 3.5 ton. The total weight of the tractor is 10.5 ton which, in conjunction with the 2 ton max weight advantage (42 tons vs 40) given to electric trucks in Europe, result in the Semi having a HIGHER payload capacity than the average diesel rig by 1-1.5 ton! There is ABSOLUTELY no need for an electric truck to have more than around 800 km of range (and certainly not 1200+ km) in Europe. The reason is simple: a driver is not allowed to drive more than 9 hours per 24-hour period (10 in some limited exceptions). The speed limit on European highways for large trucks is either 80 or 90 km/h (70 in Greece, 100 in Bulgaria). Therefore, the most a truck can do in a day (on a single shift) is 9 * 90 = 810 km... which, due to traffic and other causes NEVER happens. The European real-life average truck speed on highways is in fact 74 km/h, which translates into 666 (!) km in a day. Given that the mandatory min. 45 mn pause can be spent at a regular supercharger (hopefully installed as a drive-through) to top off the battery by around 200 kWh, there is absolutely no need for a range superior to ca. 800 (real) km! And the Tesla Semi is pretty much the only e-truck having demonstrated in practice such a range. On long-haul duties, the battery would have all the time necessary to be recharged at night on a mere 50-80 kW charge (possibly a simple and inexpensive AC one). A number of parking spots at truck stops must however be so equipped... but that is neither complicated nor very expensive. Hydrogen has NO business case in road transport, and at most niche ones in grid storage. It is an inefficient, dangerous and way too expensive technology.... not to mention that all "green" hydrogen produced for the next 2 decades will be best used in industry, neither that there is no hydrogen distribution network to talk about...and I know a thing or two on the topic, having worked several years, as a chemical engineer, improving hydrogen electrolyzing!
@@st-ex8506 Im afriad you are completely wrong as you dont understand truck economics. Long range trucks change crews to get the maximum return on the high capital investment involved and to shorten end to end delivery times on the 9 longest Eoropean truck routes, which are all several thousand km long. For some reason you think you know better than Daimler and Volvo who are developing Cryo Compressed Liquid Hydrogen long range ( 1200km+) trucks because there is a demand for them
@@ldm3027 contrary to what you wrote, so called team operations practically do NOT exist in Europe ( with some very rare exceptions)! No, long-haul trucks do Not have two drivers taking turns. The reason is simple, and the reverse of what you just said: if the investment in the truck is important, the salary of the second driver is much more! It is LESS costly having the truck sitting in a rest area for another 9 hours a day, than to pay a second driver! You see, if I am no trucker myself, my neighbor and friend is the retired CEO of a trucking company. We have discussed the subject of the electrification of trucks to great lengths! However, there are many two-shift operations! But that is not at all the same than team operations! The driver is changed ALWAYS at terminals of a constant route (two DHL warehouses for example). But, in this case, there is no problem recharging the truck during the change of shift. That is, for example, precisely what Pepsi is doing with its Tesla Semis in Sacramento. There are also car companies still developing, respectively manufacturing hydrogen vehicles (Toyota, Hyundai, BMW). Yes, they are ALL mistaken! Hydrogen road vehicles ARE a dead-end street. Hydrogen has, vs batteries, only disadvantages, the worsts and inescapable ones being inefficiency and much higher costs. Except one in the case of trucks, but not cars: longer range. But now that Tesla has brought a truck that has a range longer than the truck can legally be driven in a day, that one advantage is gone.
@@ldm3027 I am indeed no trucker myself. But my neighbor is the retired CEO of a sizable logistics company. He spent his entire career in trucking, starting as a driver, and ending up as the CEO. I suppose he could write a book on European trucking. And I do check my hypotheses with him. There is virtually NO so-called "team" operations in Europe, i.e. long-haul trucks with two drivers taking turn at the wheel. The only time it happens is when a transport is extremely urgent, and the client is ready to pay a supplement. The reason for that is most straightforward: the salary + associated costs to the employer of the second driver are 3 to 4 TIMES more than the financial costs of the truck sitting 9 more hours a day at a rest area. Furthermore, there is a severe penury of truck drivers in Europe... so no one to be the second driver. I am afraid YOU are the one ill-informed! Having said this, there are trucks, even lots of them (like precisely the Tesla Semis operated by Pepsi from their Sacramento warehouse, or all DHL, FEDEX, .... trucks), which are operated dual-shift. But the change of shift happens at one of the two terminals of a constant route. But that is no problem for electrical trucks, as they are being recharged in hour or less in between shifts. Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles have been pioneered by Toyota and its Mirai. It is an abject failure! Such vehicles have no present and even less future in road transport. The two reasons for that are also simple: (very) bad efficiency and (very) high costs! - Let's say that for a vehicle to drive 1 mile, it takes a battery vehicle 1 unit of (hopefully) renewable power, to drive the same mile with an identical but hydrogen vehicle takes 3 units of power! As we won't have for another at least 2 decades any excess of renewable power, the HFCV make NEITHER economic NOR environmental sense. - "Green" hydrogen is presently extremely rare (
How wrong Professor Cebon is in his comment on the size of the battery necessary for a truck to go all day without recharging. The range of the Tesla Semi (800 km, actually more like 850 km in real-life, as was demonstrated) is already enough to achieve that in Europe, where driving hours are limited to 9 per 24-hour period (10 hours in some exceptions), and highway speed limits for heavy trucks are 80, respectively 90 km/h, depending on the countries... and the average speed achieved by heavy trucks on European highways stands at around 74 km/h! The Semi's battery has a capacity of ca. 850 kWh, weighs about 3.5 ton, and certainly does not cost "many hundreds of thousands of pounds", but more like 80-100k£ (cost to the manufacturer, not the price of a replacement one to the end customer)!
Now this is something i dint expect to see at DAF. I do hope you also act on it! Electrify the world!
The comment at the 35 minute mark does touch on a serious issue with upgrading mains supplies but ignores solar and battery solutions for that depot. This video is one year old and now but since then more businesses are installing solar and batteries to supplement their power supplies from a limiting mains supply. For larger long distance vehicles battery swapping seems to be a solution being introduced in places such as Australia and New Zealand.
a useful discussion. For comparison, Tesla claims that its BEV semi truck with its 1MWh battery will have a 500 mile ( ~ 800km) range. The battery is likely to weigh around 5 tons although that will reduce over time to ~ 3.5 ton. Total truck weight limits are ~ 40ton, so the overall tractor weight will be about 25% of that. There is certainly an argument that long range ( eg 1200+ km) EV trucks will be needed in Europe for the longest routes, which are heavily used. Daimler and Volvo Truck have jointly created cellcentric to develop long range ( 1000 - 1200+ km) liquid hydrogen (LH2) powered FCEVs for this purpose so there must be at least an outline commercial case for them. LH2 has also got potential for some aviation and energy storage applications so there may be sufficient demand to liquify hydrogen at scale so as to make it viable.
do you have an answer to the cuestion where are we going to get all the water we need to electrolize, the power to do it and what are we going to do with the "residue" of O2 that weights more than twice the amount of H2 we are supossed to get?
Just to set the record straight: the Tesla Semi does NOT have a 1 MWh battery, but a ca. 850 kWh one! It ALREADY weighs hardly more than 3.5 ton. The total weight of the tractor is 10.5 ton which, in conjunction with the 2 ton max weight advantage (42 tons vs 40) given to electric trucks in Europe, result in the Semi having a HIGHER payload capacity than the average diesel rig by 1-1.5 ton!
There is ABSOLUTELY no need for an electric truck to have more than around 800 km of range (and certainly not 1200+ km) in Europe. The reason is simple: a driver is not allowed to drive more than 9 hours per 24-hour period (10 in some limited exceptions). The speed limit on European highways for large trucks is either 80 or 90 km/h (70 in Greece, 100 in Bulgaria). Therefore, the most a truck can do in a day (on a single shift) is 9 * 90 = 810 km... which, due to traffic and other causes NEVER happens. The European real-life average truck speed on highways is in fact 74 km/h, which translates into 666 (!) km in a day. Given that the mandatory min. 45 mn pause can be spent at a regular supercharger (hopefully installed as a drive-through) to top off the battery by around 200 kWh, there is absolutely no need for a range superior to ca. 800 (real) km! And the Tesla Semi is pretty much the only e-truck having demonstrated in practice such a range. On long-haul duties, the battery would have all the time necessary to be recharged at night on a mere 50-80 kW charge (possibly a simple and inexpensive AC one). A number of parking spots at truck stops must however be so equipped... but that is neither complicated nor very expensive.
Hydrogen has NO business case in road transport, and at most niche ones in grid storage. It is an inefficient, dangerous and way too expensive technology.... not to mention that all "green" hydrogen produced for the next 2 decades will be best used in industry, neither that there is no hydrogen distribution network to talk about...and I know a thing or two on the topic, having worked several years, as a chemical engineer, improving hydrogen electrolyzing!
@@st-ex8506 Im afriad you are completely wrong as you dont understand truck economics. Long range trucks change crews to get the maximum return on the high capital investment involved and to shorten end to end delivery times on the 9 longest Eoropean truck routes, which are all several thousand km long.
For some reason you think you know better than Daimler and Volvo who are developing Cryo Compressed Liquid Hydrogen long range ( 1200km+) trucks because there is a demand for them
@@ldm3027 contrary to what you wrote, so called team operations practically do NOT exist in Europe ( with some very rare exceptions)! No, long-haul trucks do Not have two drivers taking turns. The reason is simple, and the reverse of what you just said: if the investment in the truck is important, the salary of the second driver is much more! It is LESS costly having the truck sitting in a rest area for another 9 hours a day, than to pay a second driver!
You see, if I am no trucker myself, my neighbor and friend is the retired CEO of a trucking company. We have discussed the subject of the electrification of trucks to great lengths!
However, there are many two-shift operations! But that is not at all the same than team operations! The driver is changed ALWAYS at terminals of a constant route (two DHL warehouses for example). But, in this case, there is no problem recharging the truck during the change of shift. That is, for example, precisely what Pepsi is doing with its Tesla Semis in Sacramento.
There are also car companies still developing, respectively manufacturing hydrogen vehicles (Toyota, Hyundai, BMW). Yes, they are ALL mistaken! Hydrogen road vehicles ARE a dead-end street. Hydrogen has, vs batteries, only disadvantages, the worsts and inescapable ones being inefficiency and much higher costs. Except one in the case of trucks, but not cars: longer range. But now that Tesla has brought a truck that has a range longer than the truck can legally be driven in a day, that one advantage is gone.
@@ldm3027 I am indeed no trucker myself. But my neighbor is the retired CEO of a sizable logistics company. He spent his entire career in trucking, starting as a driver, and ending up as the CEO. I suppose he could write a book on European trucking. And I do check my hypotheses with him.
There is virtually NO so-called "team" operations in Europe, i.e. long-haul trucks with two drivers taking turn at the wheel. The only time it happens is when a transport is extremely urgent, and the client is ready to pay a supplement. The reason for that is most straightforward:
the salary + associated costs to the employer of the second driver are 3 to 4 TIMES more than the financial costs of the truck sitting 9 more hours a day at a rest area. Furthermore, there is a severe penury of truck drivers in Europe... so no one to be the second driver. I am afraid YOU are the one ill-informed!
Having said this, there are trucks, even lots of them (like precisely the Tesla Semis operated by Pepsi from their Sacramento warehouse, or all DHL, FEDEX, .... trucks), which are operated dual-shift. But the change of shift happens at one of the two terminals of a constant route. But that is no problem for electrical trucks, as they are being recharged in hour or less in between shifts.
Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles have been pioneered by Toyota and its Mirai. It is an abject failure! Such vehicles have no present and even less future in road transport. The two reasons for that are also simple: (very) bad efficiency and (very) high costs!
- Let's say that for a vehicle to drive 1 mile, it takes a battery vehicle 1 unit of (hopefully) renewable power, to drive the same mile with an identical but hydrogen vehicle takes 3 units of power! As we won't have for another at least 2 decades any excess of renewable power, the HFCV make NEITHER economic NOR environmental sense.
- "Green" hydrogen is presently extremely rare (
How wrong Professor Cebon is in his comment on the size of the battery necessary for a truck to go all day without recharging. The range of the Tesla Semi (800 km, actually more like 850 km in real-life, as was demonstrated) is already enough to achieve that in Europe, where driving hours are limited to 9 per 24-hour period (10 hours in some exceptions), and highway speed limits for heavy trucks are 80, respectively 90 km/h, depending on the countries... and the average speed achieved by heavy trucks on European highways stands at around 74 km/h!
The Semi's battery has a capacity of ca. 850 kWh, weighs about 3.5 ton, and certainly does not cost "many hundreds of thousands of pounds", but more like 80-100k£ (cost to the manufacturer, not the price of a replacement one to the end customer)!