I don't know, like it could be that being as polar as possible (which donk shoves usually are though at these stakes maybe slightly less) just maximizes the value villain gets from the weaker parts of hero's range without inducing many more folds. Obviously if he knew hero had QQ would have played things differently.
To make the play the villain has to have to put you on exactly Queens...which he did. Villain is a tricky player indeed. Very dangerous value bed given the board as JJ, 10 10 VERY easily in Hero's range
Line was terrible, Hero would have called river or at least called a bet 50% (900) on the turn. Then the bet all in (2250 in to 3600) would be a lot better of a price.
I love it too. I use another one, minsesh, when you're just gonna play for a little bit. Or, if you feel like bombing a tournament, you can say " I'm gonna minsesh this tournament" lol
That happened to me in Vegas last year playing 1-3. I showed pocket queens (for top set) to a friendly guy next to me after villain folded, some annoying lady pipes up "show one show all". Dealer makes me show. Two hands later I stack someone else at the table, and promptly get up and walk off just to tilt her. She starts pleading that I'm hit and running. Sorry.
If you have QQs and the board has J 10 it's definitely no bueno if you think villain had a premium hand. Pocket 10s is now a set, Pocket JJs are now a set, KK s are beating you and AA are beating you. Even AK has quite a few outs. So what are you ahead of exactly ?
Haven't seen the reveal yet. This would be a sexy value shove from Js full, quads, and even AA. The turn bet from hero signifies either a semi-bluff, which isn't calling any lead on the river, or a protection bet with QQ or KK, which will feel forced to call the river. Having said that, I don't quite know what to do. But just saying that it would be a really sexy value shove.
Well accordint to Bart people should collude and give info to rheir buddy but not eberyone else and not enforce when someone calls sometimes to see their hand they dont have to show. Just because you want rules followed it doesnt mean youre miserable.
Commenting before the reveal… we’ve given the villain so many opportunities to bluff. He could bluff the flop, he could bluff the turn after we check, he could check raise all in the turn with a draw…. and if villain has a hand like AA or KK, they are talking so much risk to check twice and then just check call turn… I have no idea what villain is up to, but I’m confused and villain seems to want us to fold, I have an overpair, I call. Maybe this tricky has a float-everything-and-jam-all-rivers plan, because nothing makes sense to me.
Kind of an inexperienced player here....I don't understand the villains river shove. Was he turning kk into a bluff? Trying to fold out aa..... despite pre flop action? Or attempting to get called by exactly qq....? Line is so weird by villain considering heros turn action....I would have definitely called his shove. But just not sure what villain could have been thinking....
What a setup, last hand of the night running QQ into KK, 4 handed. Gross, but good fold though. Another line, although super nitty, could have been to just flat the 100 pre. Not optimal, but if you were just gonna flat the 850 4 bet pre you might as well have flatted the 100 instead, factoring in "last hand of the night" and keeping the pot manageble and all.
I’m never checking behind there on the flop. Never. Guess that’s why I still have a regular job. Probably shoving Preflop depending on player and live read.
Is there any combos of AA, Hero just call IP Pre. Or facing an aggressive player, AA is always 5Bet jam for value. Trapping with AA is a good play heads-up in 4B pot, hero will take the same line, and the river should be a call.
This seems like something I would do with JJ or 1010 and how I would bluff with AK because Check, Check, All In is a pretty scary move unless you have "The Nuts".
I'm surprised not having the Qd wasn't mentioned at some point. Strange hand and good fold, although I don't think calling w/ QQ here is terrible. It's close.
I’ve watched about 8 or 9 of these and in the ‘tricky’ hand the caller always ended up making the right play 😂. They could still be interesting hands but come on guys. You tend to learn more from your mistakes.
I agree with the fold here: unless it's a Q on the R, I'm folding. Call me a nit ;) Also, I wouldn't show my hand to get a 'read' private game or not. The whole flow of information is away from you, with zero info coming in. Lastly, in the 'show one' comment, I find this telling of the player and use that info later on. For profit players, as Bart time and time again has said, why poke these guys? You want them to keep playing :) Great YT vid as always!!
I suppose that, as played, villain knows hero likely does not have JJ, 10,10 or AA...so likely put hero on either AK (which obviously folds) or QQ that might pay a shove at some frequency.
His river bet weirdly only targets QQ? or some hero calls with 99s at most. No sense to bet all-in in the river against AK, so you would rather bet small and induce a bluff. A bad play since he's not valuing any hands except the hand the hero had exactly lol. Which is quite lucky and unfortunate at the same time since hero folded. AA would almost always C-Bet the flop or would delayed C-bet a larger sizing on the turn. 99s should bet on the turn to make AK, AQ fold when you double barrel and their draw doesn't come up in the turn.
MisNit is a term I came up with. Nits are mannequins at the table never talk as if they are gonna give a tell, they always look miserable and upset. So I call them a MisNit
Biggest pot ive won in cash was QQ on the button, had built 500 into 2700 in a 5/5 game. Dude who just won 13k in a daily tournament sat down and matched my stack and made it 100 to go. I three bet my QQ to 350 because I recognized the spot for what it was. Dude feeling the heater he was on believing it would translate to the cash tables. He insta rips I call he shows AK I hold. Im probably not supposed to flip for over 500 bbs…but i knew i was good?
I really love the advanced analysis but I don't think this is that hard to figure out. I thought KK myself. It's not that tricky, it's certainly a move in my toolbox. All that really happened is that opp knew you had QQ, because he had KK, and there was J10 on board. I think we can almost rule out AA here. KK seemed obvious to me after I thought about it a little. Great fold! You saved $2700 that you could have lost by shoving pf. Great play caller!
@@timmyp34 If you think about the hands opp can have here, AK seems pretty unlikely after the turn, really even after the flop. But if you just consider KK it makes a lot of sense. KK calls down small bets in this spot all the time, he's really likely to be best here, and especially with the sizing, I think calling is perfectly fine in his spot, raising sometimes is fine too. Raising or calling is fine for opp. And it's not that far out of any player's range to do this with KK in this spot, I think. Obviously both players have great hands. They're probably AA KK QQ JJ etc. Well jack on the board makes JJ less likely, and then Hero's bets made it less likely still. Hero could have AA here, and be value betting sometimes, but his bet here almost directly signaled QQ, when opp had KK in hand. It could also be KK, but that's fine, because we either win or chop. Sometimes hero will show up with Aces instead of kings betting like this, but I think it's rare. Aces wants to size big post flop on all streets. Takes a LOT of discipline to slow play that board with AA. It can be done, I have done it, but it's a risky proposition and you have to be ready to fold.
Respectfully, what’s wrong with show one show all? Especially if you were in the hand earlier and folded to a bet. I understand if a player who had not put in any money asks but not a player who had been in the hand. I see this quite a bit in the lower limit games and have done it on occasion.
There's nothing wrong with it, but be weary. You could kill the action, you could upset people and then they won't give you any action .I think it's more detrimental than beneficial. If you say that to a whale, you could kill your whole game. Like Bart said if he gets up and leaves, what was all that for? Whales have no rhyme or reason. They don't construct properly lmao. You're not getting any information seeing a whale or a fishes cards. Another pro? Different story. By all means, do it. Recreational/whale/fish, I recommend not doing it. It's happened at one of my tables before. Only guy giving action showed me his cards cuz it was just me and him in the hand, somebody chimed in with the show one show all, he got upset, didn't leave, but changed the whole game. He wasn't talkative anymore, he wasn't giving as much action. Whole aura at the table changed and the next 2 hours of the game were brutal. I ended up leaving it was so bad.
The primary purpose of the rule is to discourage collusion. This is essentially a "don't tap the glass" pet peeve... any edge gained from seeing those cards is going to be far less important than keeping a player who is good for the game at the table. Most feel the same way about demanding to see a mucked hand at showdown.
@@AvatarKava I admit that I am a recreational player who is lucky to get to the poker room once a month. I have often seen a player who is in the hand show his cards to the person to the left or right who were not in the hand before mucking their cards at showdown. In this case, the player is giving information about his hand to a portion of the table and that doesn't seem right. If they were not in the hand, why should those players get the benefit of this information. However, assume that I am in a hand at the turn and fold on a river bet. At the river, both players call all bets. I would like to know the value of the winning hand and mucked hand if there is a showdown since I folded on the river bet. If I put money in pre flop or post flop and have to fold to a bet, I will not ask to see a showdown. I only ask the question because I don't want to disrupt the unwritten rule of the game or have players who like to bluff get embarrassed by showing their hand. Any comments are appreciated.
@@beachliving3127 you're within your rights to ask and none of the points you are making above are incorrect in regards to how that information can be valuable. In the end, if your goal is to give yourself the best chance of winning, you usually don't want to risk doing anything to discourage the weakest players at the table from continuing to play. Sometimes that means not exercising all of your rights at the table to the fullest extent. The weakest players tend not to know rules like this and forcing someone to show a hand in this situation (while completely legal) will often result in them getting angry or embarrassed and just leaving the game.
@@AvatarKava Going forward, I will only consider asking to see a player's cards if he shows them to their neighbors before mucking at showdown. For me, this is not right. I don't think a player is going to show their neighbor a bluff but only a hand that might have been counterfeited or a weaker hand but a calling hand. We will see. Thanks for the information. You definitely don't want weaker players leaving the game. I have seen some folks complain that a player catches that inside straight early in a session and starts to berate them a little regarding their play. This is absolute nuts because you want him to continue to chase hands because most of time they won't win and you can get their money. Last time I played, I was at the $2/$3 table with a buy in of $400 max. There was a young player who was playing every hand and had $1,500 in chips at one time. At the end of the session, all of his stack was gone. Luckily, all anyone said was encouraging to keep him in the game! After he lost most of the stack, one guy told him to reload because he might get lucky again.
I'm saying this before I see any result it sort of smells like a guy who checked flop to switch it up and then checked again bc he was scared of the board pairing. Solid chance he has AA or KK, especially if he's a profitable player/"pro" I'm just saying that it seems like he took this line at the end to try and look like a bluff. Any compitant guy knows that this is not a normal line. Also the small sizing could have him thinking you aren't stronger than KK Yeah I was correct but to be fair its a sort of close spot.
If you check flop, then why not check turn. You said he's likely to be cbetting AK or AQs on the flop. You are unlikely to get value from an underpair and risk bloating the pot to a better hand. How often would villain take this line with an overpair? Maybe 20% of the time on this flop and maybe 80% when the board pairs on the turn and he's already checked with the overpair on the flop. He's probably very unbalanced by the river with this line and has very few if any bluffs. If he would take a similar line with AK, then I would probably overfold when the board pairs and look to defend on other runouts.
That is a very scary flop in a 3 bet pot. Of course you can annihilate AJ here but probably not getting 3 bet. You already lose to AA and KK but now with that flop you are losing to 1010 and JJ. It's either those 4 pairs or you are beating a bluff by AK or AQs. Tough spot.
My first ever casino game, I asked my friend what he had after winning a pot, he showed me, and then the loser did that exact thing - “ShOw oNe sHOw aLL” - and the dealer ended up forcing it by flipping over the cards. Stuck with me how lame that reg was
Bro I’m always gonna be like “what’d he have?” If someone shows someone else their cards or exposes them to part of the table. I’m always trying to get information on my opponents and that’s a legal way to do so🤷♂️ I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Next time if u don’t want that guy to ask to see the cards u and ur friend can text what each other had
@@wompwomp7177 yeah I was just echoing Bart’s sentiment with my own experience. You’re totally fine to do that, you just become similar to the annoying reg that Bart mentions here which caused a VIP to leave
@@maff_ yeah like Bart was saying I would never do this above 2/5, at a private game, against a rec (bc who cares plus we wanna keep him happy), etc. But on the casino floor against some better or solid regs at 1/3 or 2/5 (the bulk of my hours) I needa see them cards bro😂 especially when they’re all gonna take any opportunity possible to do the same to me
Do you sit at a table and not want to know whether a player had a bluff or the nuts after a big bet? I'll ask to see it 90% of the time if I think it matters at all. No need to be a dick about it but especially if they habitually show their neighbor that is am absurd amount of info
seems like QQ can just fold on the river theoretically, vs that size, you get to fold so much, and even if you have a 5bet range here you still have some JJ, TT, JTs that checked back flop, if you dont have a 5bet range which I think is best then you have AA and KK also. out of theory land, vs donk river shove for pot in this line... shit I have no idea, seems super polarized like JJ, TT or AK, elaborate button clicking really puts middle of range in a shitty spot. if villain has a small % JJ/TT and a small % AK, getting 2 to 1 it seems like calling would be okay in long run, but again theoretically I would imagine solver would just fold vs this size edit: vs KK I would be fucked, I would never expect donk shove river for pot to be this depolarized, like I would think AA and QQ in hero spot are quite similar
I always find it odd when someone says their opponent is capable of 4bet bluffing. How would you even know? How often does a four-bet bluff get to showdown? How often is someone really throwing their cards in your face when you fold instead of continuing to exploit you with bluffs like this? I feel like accusing someone of being " capable of four bet bluffing " or even three bet bluffing is really just wishful thinking to justify whatever bad play you're about to make next
I don't think there is a "correct" decision here. This is 4 handed & heads up to the flop. The villain is described as a young aggressive pro. Based on those things it's tough to lay down QQ on a board with no ace or king on it. On the other hand, hero showed respect for villains 4 bet pre by checking back this flop. Which he should *not* do if he thinks villain 4 bet light. Checking back flop here is much more traditional play vs a 4 bet because we now lose to all the other premium pairs. AA & KK were already ahead of us, and now JJ & TT are sets. Anyways... I think calling here is fine with over pair & the set up we are given, but folding is fine too because we don't really beat anything at the river. I will finish by saying this, villains line is talked about here as strange, tricky, etc. Villains line is awful. It actually allowed hero to escape, while still risking his entire stack. A small flop C-bet should be getting called by hero at a 100% rate. However, hero bailed villain out by betting turn.
Uhhh This is typical line of someone whos sandbagging out of position. Check call check call then jam because he doesn't want to lose value on river from a check back. Also, by playing this way, his hand looks potentially bluffy from people who don't recognize this line. This line is taken in limit games ALL the time where it goes check/call x2, then Villian leads on a brick river.
Right, as played, vill could also jam with AK to put pressure on heros QQ and get off of a chop with AK (because I think hero takes a stab OTT with AK some of the time). I don't like vills line at all, but it's not as unbalanced as it seems IMO.
Am I the only one who felt very strongly hero was behind the whole time. That flop is terrible for him. Only hope was heavy bet on flop thinking along these lines and hoping villain can find a fold to a lot of sets hero has. Or just give up. Even 4 handed getting 4 bet with qs, you are never good after flop. I'm an average player.
Definitely calls into question the line the KK guy took, considering hero had the prime hand to get value from and he found the fold
Not just the prime hand, literally the only hand besides maybe AJ suited? Loses to AT, JT, JJ, TT, AA.
I don't know, like it could be that being as polar as possible (which donk shoves usually are though at these stakes maybe slightly less) just maximizes the value villain gets from the weaker parts of hero's range without inducing many more folds. Obviously if he knew hero had QQ would have played things differently.
Def. If QQ folds you get value from literally nothing. You get owned when he has a boat or quads. Which to some extent hero could have any of them.
To make the play the villain has to have to put you on exactly Queens...which he did. Villain is a tricky player indeed. Very dangerous value bed given the board as JJ, 10 10 VERY easily in Hero's range
Line was terrible, Hero would have called river or at least called a bet 50% (900) on the turn. Then the bet all in (2250 in to 3600) would be a lot better of a price.
'what are you going to do, check your whole life'... I am going to make t'shirts!!!
i'd be the first to order one of those :)
@@mkader2494 i'd be second :)
“Misreg” is my new favorite poker term. It’s amazing how short sighted pro poker players can be
I love it too. I use another one, minsesh, when you're just gonna play for a little bit. Or, if you feel like bombing a tournament, you can say " I'm gonna minsesh this tournament" lol
7:02 why checking flop back is a good play? What is H going to respond to a bet on a Brick turn?
That happened to me in Vegas last year playing 1-3. I showed pocket queens (for top set) to a friendly guy next to me after villain folded, some annoying lady pipes up "show one show all". Dealer makes me show. Two hands later I stack someone else at the table, and promptly get up and walk off just to tilt her. She starts pleading that I'm hit and running. Sorry.
I really love this thumbnail. That's what I learned from this one.
If you have QQs and the board has J 10 it's definitely no bueno if you think villain had a premium hand. Pocket 10s is now a set, Pocket JJs are now a set, KK s are beating you and AA are beating you. Even AK has quite a few outs. So what are you ahead of exactly ?
Love the new thumbnail game
Haven't seen the reveal yet. This would be a sexy value shove from Js full, quads, and even AA. The turn bet from hero signifies either a semi-bluff, which isn't calling any lead on the river, or a protection bet with QQ or KK, which will feel forced to call the river.
Having said that, I don't quite know what to do. But just saying that it would be a really sexy value shove.
I don’t know the reveal: This is a jam pf. As played snap fold river.
Agreed
Well accordint to Bart people should collude and give info to rheir buddy but not eberyone else and not enforce when someone calls sometimes to see their hand they dont have to show. Just because you want rules followed it doesnt mean youre miserable.
Commenting before the reveal… we’ve given the villain so many opportunities to bluff. He could bluff the flop, he could bluff the turn after we check, he could check raise all in the turn with a draw…. and if villain has a hand like AA or KK, they are talking so much risk to check twice and then just check call turn… I have no idea what villain is up to, but I’m confused and villain seems to want us to fold, I have an overpair, I call. Maybe this tricky has a float-everything-and-jam-all-rivers plan, because nothing makes sense to me.
Kind of an inexperienced player here....I don't understand the villains river shove. Was he turning kk into a bluff? Trying to fold out aa..... despite pre flop action? Or attempting to get called by exactly qq....? Line is so weird by villain considering heros turn action....I would have definitely called his shove. But just not sure what villain could have been thinking....
What a setup, last hand of the night running QQ into KK, 4 handed. Gross, but good fold though. Another line, although super nitty, could have been to just flat the 100 pre. Not optimal, but if you were just gonna flat the 850 4 bet pre you might as well have flatted the 100 instead, factoring in "last hand of the night" and keeping the pot manageble and all.
I’m never checking behind there on the flop. Never. Guess that’s why I still have a regular job. Probably shoving Preflop depending on player and live read.
Wow. How does villain play that flop and turn that way? Crazy imo
dwan is such a freak he is the maradona of poker
Is there any combos of AA, Hero just call IP Pre. Or facing an aggressive player, AA is always 5Bet jam for value. Trapping with AA is a good play heads-up in 4B pot, hero will take the same line, and the river should be a call.
Sounds like Ryan Feldman on the line
This seems like something I would do with JJ or 1010 and how I would bluff with AK because Check, Check, All In is a pretty scary move unless you have "The Nuts".
I'm surprised not having the Qd wasn't mentioned at some point. Strange hand and good fold, although I don't think calling w/ QQ here is terrible. It's close.
Love the graphic!
Villain shovin to push nit hero off chop pot
I’ve watched about 8 or 9 of these and in the ‘tricky’ hand the caller always ended up making the right play 😂. They could still be interesting hands but come on guys. You tend to learn more from your mistakes.
I agree with the fold here: unless it's a Q on the R, I'm folding. Call me a nit ;) Also, I wouldn't show my hand to get a 'read' private game or not. The whole flow of information is away from you, with zero info coming in. Lastly, in the 'show one' comment, I find this telling of the player and use that info later on. For profit players, as Bart time and time again has said, why poke these guys? You want them to keep playing :) Great YT vid as always!!
I suppose that, as played, villain knows hero likely does not have JJ, 10,10 or AA...so likely put hero on either AK (which obviously folds) or QQ that might pay a shove at some frequency.
His river bet weirdly only targets QQ? or some hero calls with 99s at most. No sense to bet all-in in the river against AK, so you would rather bet small and induce a bluff. A bad play since he's not valuing any hands except the hand the hero had exactly lol. Which is quite lucky and unfortunate at the same time since hero folded.
AA would almost always C-Bet the flop or would delayed C-bet a larger sizing on the turn. 99s should bet on the turn to make AK, AQ fold when you double barrel and their draw doesn't come up in the turn.
MisNit is a term I came up with. Nits are mannequins at the table never talk as if they are gonna give a tell, they always look miserable and upset. So I call them a MisNit
2:03 it's a fold. (Don't know the end result yet.)
Damn that villain will have a long way to go.. he prolly reads the hero got queens!
I think this is Ryan Feldman, can tell by his voice.
On the flop most people are really imbalanced with their checks. I’m at 9:06 guessing he has AA
On a J-10-x board and QQ you almost always have the best hand here.?!? bet BIG with a high frequency.
Biggest pot ive won in cash was QQ on the button, had built 500 into 2700 in a 5/5 game. Dude who just won 13k in a daily tournament sat down and matched my stack and made it 100 to go. I three bet my QQ to 350 because I recognized the spot for what it was. Dude feeling the heater he was on believing it would translate to the cash tables. He insta rips I call he shows AK I hold. Im probably not supposed to flip for over 500 bbs…but i knew i was good?
He sounds like Ryan Feldman this caller
He’s Fyan Reldman
I really love the advanced analysis but I don't think this is that hard to figure out. I thought KK myself. It's not that tricky, it's certainly a move in my toolbox. All that really happened is that opp knew you had QQ, because he had KK, and there was J10 on board. I think we can almost rule out AA here. KK seemed obvious to me after I thought about it a little.
Great fold! You saved $2700 that you could have lost by shoving pf. Great play caller!
You would have wiped me out, because I thought villain had AK. One of many reasons I almost never play, I am....not good.
@@timmyp34 If you think about the hands opp can have here, AK seems pretty unlikely after the turn, really even after the flop. But if you just consider KK it makes a lot of sense. KK calls down small bets in this spot all the time, he's really likely to be best here, and especially with the sizing, I think calling is perfectly fine in his spot, raising sometimes is fine too. Raising or calling is fine for opp.
And it's not that far out of any player's range to do this with KK in this spot, I think. Obviously both players have great hands. They're probably AA KK QQ JJ etc. Well jack on the board makes JJ less likely, and then Hero's bets made it less likely still.
Hero could have AA here, and be value betting sometimes, but his bet here almost directly signaled QQ, when opp had KK in hand. It could also be KK, but that's fine, because we either win or chop.
Sometimes hero will show up with Aces instead of kings betting like this, but I think it's rare. Aces wants to size big post flop on all streets. Takes a LOT of discipline to slow play that board with AA. It can be done, I have done it, but it's a risky proposition and you have to be ready to fold.
Nice fold!
Respectfully, what’s wrong with show one show all? Especially if you were in the hand earlier and folded to a bet. I understand if a player who had not put in any money asks but not a player who had been in the hand. I see this quite a bit in the lower limit games and have done it on occasion.
There's nothing wrong with it, but be weary. You could kill the action, you could upset people and then they won't give you any action .I think it's more detrimental than beneficial. If you say that to a whale, you could kill your whole game. Like Bart said if he gets up and leaves, what was all that for? Whales have no rhyme or reason. They don't construct properly lmao. You're not getting any information seeing a whale or a fishes cards. Another pro? Different story. By all means, do it. Recreational/whale/fish, I recommend not doing it. It's happened at one of my tables before. Only guy giving action showed me his cards cuz it was just me and him in the hand, somebody chimed in with the show one show all, he got upset, didn't leave, but changed the whole game. He wasn't talkative anymore, he wasn't giving as much action. Whole aura at the table changed and the next 2 hours of the game were brutal. I ended up leaving it was so bad.
The primary purpose of the rule is to discourage collusion. This is essentially a "don't tap the glass" pet peeve... any edge gained from seeing those cards is going to be far less important than keeping a player who is good for the game at the table. Most feel the same way about demanding to see a mucked hand at showdown.
@@AvatarKava I admit that I am a recreational player who is lucky to get to the poker room once a month. I have often seen a player who is in the hand show his cards to the person to the left or right who were not in the hand before mucking their cards at showdown. In this case, the player is giving information about his hand to a portion of the table and that doesn't seem right. If they were not in the hand, why should those players get the benefit of this information.
However, assume that I am in a hand at the turn and fold on a river bet. At the river, both players call all bets. I would like to know the value of the winning hand and mucked hand if there is a showdown since I folded on the river bet.
If I put money in pre flop or post flop and have to fold to a bet, I will not ask to see a showdown.
I only ask the question because I don't want to disrupt the unwritten rule of the game or have players who like to bluff get embarrassed by showing their hand.
Any comments are appreciated.
@@beachliving3127 you're within your rights to ask and none of the points you are making above are incorrect in regards to how that information can be valuable.
In the end, if your goal is to give yourself the best chance of winning, you usually don't want to risk doing anything to discourage the weakest players at the table from continuing to play. Sometimes that means not exercising all of your rights at the table to the fullest extent. The weakest players tend not to know rules like this and forcing someone to show a hand in this situation (while completely legal) will often result in them getting angry or embarrassed and just leaving the game.
@@AvatarKava Going forward, I will only consider asking to see a player's cards if he shows them to their neighbors before mucking at showdown. For me, this is not right. I don't think a player is going to show their neighbor a bluff but only a hand that might have been counterfeited or a weaker hand but a calling hand.
We will see. Thanks for the information. You definitely don't want weaker players leaving the game.
I have seen some folks complain that a player catches that inside straight early in a session and starts to berate them a little regarding their play. This is absolute nuts because you want him to continue to chase hands because most of time they won't win and you can get their money.
Last time I played, I was at the $2/$3 table with a buy in of $400 max. There was a young player who was playing every hand and had $1,500 in chips at one time. At the end of the session, all of his stack was gone. Luckily, all anyone said was encouraging to keep him in the game! After he lost most of the stack, one guy told him to reload because he might get lucky again.
10:22 my comment
I don’t understand why Bart thinks the 3b is small… isn’t 3x in position pretty standard?
Isn't standard 3x last bet plus the remaining $ in the pot? Could be 4x plus?
You flop an overpair in 4bet pot pretty much best scenario? Otherwise why call 4bet
On the flop ur losing to everything. AA, Kk, JJ, 10 10. Great fold!! Would’ve been so tuff for me
You’re not losing to AK, AQs.
I'm saying this before I see any result it sort of smells like a guy who checked flop to switch it up and then checked again bc he was scared of the board pairing. Solid chance he has AA or KK, especially if he's a profitable player/"pro" I'm just saying that it seems like he took this line at the end to try and look like a bluff. Any compitant guy knows that this is not a normal line. Also the small sizing could have him thinking you aren't stronger than KK
Yeah I was correct but to be fair its a sort of close spot.
Never calling here. That spot is so underbluffed, classic "tricky" value line from fishreg
If you check flop, then why not check turn. You said he's likely to be cbetting AK or AQs on the flop. You are unlikely to get value from an underpair and risk bloating the pot to a better hand. How often would villain take this line with an overpair? Maybe 20% of the time on this flop and maybe 80% when the board pairs on the turn and he's already checked with the overpair on the flop. He's probably very unbalanced by the river with this line and has very few if any bluffs. If he would take a similar line with AK, then I would probably overfold when the board pairs and look to defend on other runouts.
That is a very scary flop in a 3 bet pot. Of course you can annihilate AJ here but probably not getting 3 bet. You already lose to AA and KK but now with that flop you are losing to 1010 and JJ. It's either those 4 pairs or you are beating a bluff by AK or AQs. Tough spot.
Wanting to know the outcome is considered miserable? Isn't it just a human element? We need to know, bart.😂
My first ever casino game, I asked my friend what he had after winning a pot, he showed me, and then the loser did that exact thing - “ShOw oNe sHOw aLL” - and the dealer ended up forcing it by flipping over the cards. Stuck with me how lame that reg was
Bro I’m always gonna be like “what’d he have?” If someone shows someone else their cards or exposes them to part of the table. I’m always trying to get information on my opponents and that’s a legal way to do so🤷♂️ I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Next time if u don’t want that guy to ask to see the cards u and ur friend can text what each other had
@@wompwomp7177 yeah I was just echoing Bart’s sentiment with my own experience. You’re totally fine to do that, you just become similar to the annoying reg that Bart mentions here which caused a VIP to leave
@@maff_ yeah like Bart was saying I would never do this above 2/5, at a private game, against a rec (bc who cares plus we wanna keep him happy), etc. But on the casino floor against some better or solid regs at 1/3 or 2/5 (the bulk of my hours) I needa see them cards bro😂 especially when they’re all gonna take any opportunity possible to do the same to me
Do you sit at a table and not want to know whether a player had a bluff or the nuts after a big bet? I'll ask to see it 90% of the time if I think it matters at all. No need to be a dick about it but especially if they habitually show their neighbor that is am absurd amount of info
@@wompwomp7177that's fine just know nobody wants to play with you, having to get 60 cents worth of info at every opportunity well done sir 👏
seems like QQ can just fold on the river theoretically, vs that size, you get to fold so much, and even if you have a 5bet range here you still have some JJ, TT, JTs that checked back flop, if you dont have a 5bet range which I think is best then you have AA and KK also. out of theory land, vs donk river shove for pot in this line... shit I have no idea, seems super polarized like JJ, TT or AK, elaborate button clicking really puts middle of range in a shitty spot. if villain has a small % JJ/TT and a small % AK, getting 2 to 1 it seems like calling would be okay in long run, but again theoretically I would imagine solver would just fold vs this size
edit: vs KK I would be fucked, I would never expect donk shove river for pot to be this depolarized, like I would think AA and QQ in hero spot are quite similar
Clicking here would be to 1350. He goes to 1350, it leaves 2650 behind, or roughly 34-35% of his stack, which leaves no room for this move.
Tom Dwan would call
Is it just me or the caller sounds like Ryan Feldman
Wanting to value bet the river if it’s checked to you is completely bananas. You’re not beating anything
I knew he had kings
This is a Garrett Adelstein special
I always find it odd when someone says their opponent is capable of 4bet bluffing. How would you even know? How often does a four-bet bluff get to showdown? How often is someone really throwing their cards in your face when you fold instead of continuing to exploit you with bluffs like this? I feel like accusing someone of being " capable of four bet bluffing " or even three bet bluffing is really just wishful thinking to justify whatever bad play you're about to make next
Bro the show one show all rule pisses me off so hard. I’ve given up on berating people about it
Is the caller Ryan Feldman?
"Why should I bet 20%, that's no Protection" ... bets 26% on the Turn...
I don't think there is a "correct" decision here. This is 4 handed & heads up to the flop. The villain is described as a young aggressive pro. Based on those things it's tough to lay down QQ on a board with no ace or king on it. On the other hand, hero showed respect for villains 4 bet pre by checking back this flop. Which he should *not* do if he thinks villain 4 bet light. Checking back flop here is much more traditional play vs a 4 bet because we now lose to all the other premium pairs. AA & KK were already ahead of us, and now JJ & TT are sets. Anyways... I think calling here is fine with over pair & the set up we are given, but folding is fine too because we don't really beat anything at the river.
I will finish by saying this, villains line is talked about here as strange, tricky, etc. Villains line is awful. It actually allowed hero to escape, while still risking his entire stack. A small flop C-bet should be getting called by hero at a 100% rate. However, hero bailed villain out by betting turn.
Uhhh This is typical line of someone whos sandbagging out of position. Check call check call then jam because he doesn't want to lose value on river from a check back. Also, by playing this way, his hand looks potentially bluffy from people who don't recognize this line.
This line is taken in limit games ALL the time where it goes check/call x2, then Villian leads on a brick river.
Right, as played, vill could also jam with AK to put pressure on heros QQ and get off of a chop with AK (because I think hero takes a stab OTT with AK some of the time). I don't like vills line at all, but it's not as unbalanced as it seems IMO.
Why would you shove Ks here?
Am I the only one who felt very strongly hero was behind the whole time. That flop is terrible for him. Only hope was heavy bet on flop thinking along these lines and hoping villain can find a fold to a lot of sets hero has. Or just give up. Even 4 handed getting 4 bet with qs, you are never good after flop. I'm an average player.
He knows you know so he is overbetting you to make it look like a bluff havent seen reveal yet
The difference between three hundred and four hundred is one hundred,
You're welcome
Callers voice sounds like Ryan Feldman to me
How is a 3x 3! Unorthodox small sizing lol smh barts better than this
What's wrong with that guy. He played like he wanted not how he had to