Ill drop a line in the DC20 general chat as soon as I get a chance. Thank you for you interest! I actually ran some DC20 this evening (not the campaign) and it was a blast.
Thank you for your comment! We put out 3 videos a week. Mondays we do a shorter video that I try to keep to 10 minutes. I have titled the concept “Refocus” because Pathfinder 2e has a 10 minute activity called “Refocus.” Wednesdays we put out a longer video titled “Short Rest” named after the D&D short rest. These videos we try to keep to around an hour, just like the name sake short rest. They are used for topics that need more time, collaborations, or session prep. Saturdays we put up live play of our games. Currently we have an Aliens rpg game that is posted on Saturdays. Thanks again, and I will for sure keep the content coming!
I agree. The spell system in DC20 fits perfectly with in the 4 point action economy, mana points, etc, making every spell casting feel dynamic and interesting.
Not sure where you are located but we just put this one up, maybe, it might hit a time frame that works. startplaying.games/adventure/clxcal08w009v1cn8n8tzzsu8
Thank you for the comment! I love DC20! It is my preferred system now. The moments at the table just feel more epic and impactful…and they lead to better storytelling in my opinion. Tomorrow’s video I will be showcasing my DM session prep for DC20! Come peek behind the screen and see how I plan out a game session!
Very handy. After 30 years of running different editions of D&D (and Pathfinder), I'm not picking up the new edition/revision. I am instead very intrigued by DC20. Thanks for posting this video.
Wow, thank you for your kind words! There are other videos like this on our channel, and I will keep making content like this. Fog Cloud comparison is coming Monday. I am also looking to do a comparison of D&D weapon masteries, PF2e Critical Specializations, and DC20 Weapon passives comparison video.
Thank you for your comment. I absolutely agree that the GM can add riders to spells and other things that occur in the game. My video was comparing the spells as written, and due to that I could not assume that a GM may add extra effects that are not listed. I think you do bring up a good point however and its that GMs should not be afraid to have cool extras happen when it makes sense. In the games that I run, I do allow for the dynamic use of spells outside what is written on the page.
@@garykinney16D&D 5e feels the need to specifically call out spells setting stuff on fire or not. Almost every spell that blasts fire has this text. I'd say that the lack of it in the other systems is more that they're leaving it to GM decision when that becomes relevant, and DC20 only calls it out when it becomes an extra damage source.
1e AD&D Player's Handbook states both Burning Hands, and Fireball ignite combustible material. However, Flame Arrow does not. It was a known medieval war tactic to light fire to arrows, and shoot them into combustible material.
The only official DC20 monsters are in the short adventure “The Hunted” which came with the Alpha. Dungeon Coach has said that those stat blocks are not what the official ones will be like. That said, there is a monster creation guide in the Alpha, and a bunch of monsters coming to kickstarter backers. I have also converted a bunch of 5e monsters to DC20. I even converted a young green dragon and the stats I came up with were similar to those that Dungeon Coach used for the young purple dragon. My video today will be a peek behind my screen as I show you my DM prep for DC20! Ill be showing off some of my stat blocks too! Look for that video in the “Short Rest” series later today!
In 1e AD&D this spell only had one thing going for it. The victim didn't get a saving throw. When the decision was made to grant Magic Missile no need for an attack roll. Burning Hands was only added to subsequent editions because of nostalgia.
@@samuelbroad11 If you pay an extra mana point when casting (the DC20 equivalent of) Find Familiar, can you have your cat familiar accompany all your spoken presentations? :)
Good catch! I think as a factor of the DC20 version being an “attack” in that it goes against PD rather than a save as in D&D and Pathfinder, yes, on a miss, you would deal 0 damage to the target. I believe you still deal +1 damage for heavy/brutal hits (or thats how I would rule it) and the spell check is compared to all creatures in the area, so it could have varied results amongst a group of enemies. Again, thank you for watching and thank you for your comment!
@@andrewh.9937 This is Gary from Roll With Us replying on the official login vs my usual one. Thank you so much for sharing this information. You also bring another aspect that I will need to consider going forward which is that each system has their own innate rules for spell casting. Like in Pathfinder 2e, "Basic Reflex Save" has its own built in damage thresholds depending on the saving throw result. No damage on a crit success, 1/2 damage on a success, full damage on a failure, and double damage on a crit failure. And of course Pathfinder 2e also has a by 10 crit system, so crit success and crit failure is more likely than in other systems. Again, I appreciate you replying in the comment section, especially this deep in a comment thread.
I think for comparing damage between drastically different damage styles would be to look at the overall resource cost versus the ratio of damage improvement. Maybe see how it would deal against that games beefiest hp player. Like the equivalent to 5e base barbarian at lv 20 being (d12*20)+(5*20) or “240+100” for 340 hp at max. Hypothetically repeatedly using Burning hands cast at 9th is 3d6+8d6, max of 66 (33avg?) vs 340. Thats a total of 6 hits (actually 5.16) to down the barb. That 9th burning hands is 3.66x stronger then base. Breathe fire at 10th doing 20d6, up from 2d6 is a 10x increase. I dont know pf2e but someone said 240+(120w/ apex item) for 360hp. At hypothetical max repeats, fire breath does 120 for 3 hits to down that pf2e barb. I never actually played the games, but i’ve been reading a bit on 5e. Is there any way for DC20 burning flames to get “extra effort” damage increases like the other two games?
Thank you for your comment! I can tell you put a lot of thought into your suggestion. I will definitely consider it going forward, and I may even revisit some of the other comparison videos as an addendum/part 2. I tried to do something similar with my “Heal/Cure Wounds” video where I took a comparably built fighter in each system and I figured out what percentage of their max hp would be healed at each of 5 different levels. As for DC20 Burning Flames, currently in Alpha 0.7 there are no mana point enhancements for damage increases. I think they will have to add that when they do the spell overhaul which is Beta 0.9 I think. Currently the way you deal extra damage with Burning Flames in DC20 is by your spell check getting heavy/brutal hits or even critical hits versus their PD. Spell checks do scale with level caping at +17 at level 20, but PD also increases with Combat Mastery, so PD at level 20 would be 8 + 10 (CM) + 7 (Agility) + Armor bonus. That could be a PD of 30+ so you’re not going to get crazy extra damage out of that higher spell check bonus.
The DC20 version looks more flavorful and versatile which makes it the most interesting to me DnD and Pathfinder 2 versions are just about deal damage and deal more damage (The scaling in Pathfinder seems better as upcasting may feel a bit underwhelming in many cases)
Thank you for your comment! I agree that the versatility with DC20 spell casting is a boon with most of their spells. The Mana Point system is well done and even DC20s 4 point action economy lets you seamlessly craft each spell the way you want. Mondays video is going to compare the spells Fog Cloud (Mist in PF2). We will also be live with more DC20 gameplay if you want to check that out. 7pm EDT.
What i desire is Burning Hands, Thunderwave and Cone of Cold to be onensoell where uou choose the element as they are all conenspells in the end... why can't I have cold dmg Fireball or Poison cone??
@@garykinney16I hope some rule is added in DC20 that allows players to Taylor for different elementa. Hard part is if you just change the Fire in to Cold what do you do with Burning for Cold or Lighting. Like cold could freez all liquids but Lighting? DC20 has been super interesting after I found abojt it resently. But until I can buh the published version I will probably play D&D 5e, PF2E and Cypher System ❤ gonna run one shot For brother's kids in Cypher System "Magical Wild West" but even in that it is bit weird to take something like bears the Halo of Fire and to say now it is Halo of Ice (I just love Ice magic personally.)
The mathematical average damage of a d6 is 3.5 so rounded up to a whole number that would be 4. For multiple dice, 3.5 for a d6 would be a more accurate average total. So in a sense, you’re both right but 70 would be the more accurate average over time. Either way, not something to worry about for those of us that will be running DC20 only going forward. 😁
@@davidrose7938 I wonder if all of the totals that use multiple dice in 5e use the fraction and round up the last one if its an odd number of dice. Hmmm…I think that is how the book does it. Good to know. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will say that another thing with DC20 that I like is the way it handles rounding. Always up. In 5e its usually down, except for a few times that its not (like with die averages). Also, I think that rounding up on things like the resistance of a barbarians rage helps to balance it better and allowing it to be an unlimited resource. (There is also the drop in PD which also helps balance rage. Now I want to see a fighter and a barbarian in a party and the fighter parries for the barbarian increasing his PD! That would be cool teamwork!)
Thank you for your support! I am glad you found us! I have been using our “Refocus” concept of 10ish minute videos (in the spirit of the Refocus mechanic from Pathfinder 2e) to do these spell comparisons. Maybe I should break these spell comparisons away from Refocus and make them their own series? Or maybe just set up a playlist that is for the spell comparisons and those videos can be in both Refocus and the comparison playlists? Either way, thank you for your input. We will see what is best, but you have definitely given me ideas! Thank you!
Thank you for the page number. These are the rules for a DM to create a new spell. They do not specifically modify the spell “Burning Hands” unless a DM decides to modify it. The spell is represented in the video as it is written. The same is true of the Pathfinder and DC20 versions. While a DM allowing extra modifications to spells is very cool, it does not work for a spell comparison video. I needed a baseline to compare against, and that required the spells as they appear.
@@josephkelly7278 would the spell modification be allowed in adventure league (or whatever the competitive play space is called)? Baseline RAW, a burning hands spell doesnt have the same flexibility as DC20 burning flames.
This is a really interesting side by side comparison. Please consider dropping more info about your campaign over in the DC20 discord!
Ill drop a line in the DC20 general chat as soon as I get a chance. Thank you for you interest!
I actually ran some DC20 this evening (not the campaign) and it was a blast.
Thank you for the discussion. Within an acceptable timeframe, It was entertaining and informative.
Please continue adding in the DC20 content.
Thank you for your comment! We put out 3 videos a week. Mondays we do a shorter video that I try to keep to 10 minutes. I have titled the concept “Refocus” because Pathfinder 2e has a 10 minute activity called “Refocus.”
Wednesdays we put out a longer video titled “Short Rest” named after the D&D short rest. These videos we try to keep to around an hour, just like the name sake short rest. They are used for topics that need more time, collaborations, or session prep.
Saturdays we put up live play of our games. Currently we have an Aliens rpg game that is posted on Saturdays.
Thanks again, and I will for sure keep the content coming!
DC20 video. Lets spread the word! So fun how DC20 handles spell. I’m looking foward to the spell overhaul!! It’s gonna be insane!
I agree. The spell system in DC20 fits perfectly with in the 4 point action economy, mana points, etc, making every spell casting feel dynamic and interesting.
I'd love to join a DC20 campaign, but being outside the US the timezone makes it difficult, sadly
Not sure where you are located but we just put this one up, maybe, it might hit a time frame that works. startplaying.games/adventure/clxcal08w009v1cn8n8tzzsu8
Greate comparison. Awesome to see you guys adopting DC20.
Thank you for the comment! I love DC20! It is my preferred system now. The moments at the table just feel more epic and impactful…and they lead to better storytelling in my opinion.
Tomorrow’s video I will be showcasing my DM session prep for DC20! Come peek behind the screen and see how I plan out a game session!
I’m super excited for DC 20!
Thank you for commenting! I look forward to ever chance I get to run DC20!
Very handy. After 30 years of running different editions of D&D (and Pathfinder), I'm not picking up the new edition/revision. I am instead very intrigued by DC20. Thanks for posting this video.
Wow, thank you for your kind words! There are other videos like this on our channel, and I will keep making content like this. Fog Cloud comparison is coming Monday. I am also looking to do a comparison of D&D weapon masteries, PF2e Critical Specializations, and DC20 Weapon passives comparison video.
It should be up to the GM to decide if other things are set on fire. The game should not have to tell you you it happens.
Thank you for your comment. I absolutely agree that the GM can add riders to spells and other things that occur in the game.
My video was comparing the spells as written, and due to that I could not assume that a GM may add extra effects that are not listed.
I think you do bring up a good point however and its that GMs should not be afraid to have cool extras happen when it makes sense. In the games that I run, I do allow for the dynamic use of spells outside what is written on the page.
@@garykinney16D&D 5e feels the need to specifically call out spells setting stuff on fire or not. Almost every spell that blasts fire has this text. I'd say that the lack of it in the other systems is more that they're leaving it to GM decision when that becomes relevant, and DC20 only calls it out when it becomes an extra damage source.
@@sethb3090all very good observations! Thank you again for participating in the comment section!
1e AD&D Player's Handbook states both Burning Hands, and Fireball ignite combustible material. However, Flame Arrow does not. It was a known medieval war tactic to light fire to arrows, and shoot them into combustible material.
All he best for your campaign DC20 really feels great
Thank you so much for the well wishes! And thank you for commenting!
Are there any monster stats out for dc20. How monster differ to pcs that kind of thing?
The only official DC20 monsters are in the short adventure “The Hunted” which came with the Alpha. Dungeon Coach has said that those stat blocks are not what the official ones will be like.
That said, there is a monster creation guide in the Alpha, and a bunch of monsters coming to kickstarter backers. I have also converted a bunch of 5e monsters to DC20. I even converted a young green dragon and the stats I came up with were similar to those that Dungeon Coach used for the young purple dragon.
My video today will be a peek behind my screen as I show you my DM prep for DC20! Ill be showing off some of my stat blocks too! Look for that video in the “Short Rest” series later today!
In 1e AD&D this spell only had one thing going for it. The victim didn't get a saving throw. When the decision was made to grant Magic Missile no need for an attack roll. Burning Hands was only added to subsequent editions because of nostalgia.
Thank you for your comment! I appreciate your knowledge of 1e D&D and the contribution that you added to this topic!
Thank you!
burning hand..
mrow
I don't know about comparing the damange..
mrow mrow
An extra mana point makes the burning make a "meow" sound as it blasts ;)
Yup, my kitty got very vocal at the end of the video😅
@@garykinney16 It was good ambiance :)
@@hellsente7826 Ill tell Simon he did good, and Ill give him a treat from you!
Puurrrr
@@samuelbroad11 If you pay an extra mana point when casting (the DC20 equivalent of) Find Familiar, can you have your cat familiar accompany all your spoken presentations? :)
In DC20 if you don't "hit" on the PD check, it does zero damage? (no half damage?)
Good catch! I think as a factor of the DC20 version being an “attack” in that it goes against PD rather than a save as in D&D and Pathfinder, yes, on a miss, you would deal 0 damage to the target.
I believe you still deal +1 damage for heavy/brutal hits (or thats how I would rule it) and the spell check is compared to all creatures in the area, so it could have varied results amongst a group of enemies.
Again, thank you for watching and thank you for your comment!
"When you spend MP to cast a Spell that deals damage, the target takes half damage on a miss." Page 56 of .7 alpha
@@andrewh.9937 This is Gary from Roll With Us replying on the official login vs my usual one. Thank you so much for sharing this information.
You also bring another aspect that I will need to consider going forward which is that each system has their own innate rules for spell casting. Like in Pathfinder 2e, "Basic Reflex Save" has its own built in damage thresholds depending on the saving throw result. No damage on a crit success, 1/2 damage on a success, full damage on a failure, and double damage on a crit failure. And of course Pathfinder 2e also has a by 10 crit system, so crit success and crit failure is more likely than in other systems.
Again, I appreciate you replying in the comment section, especially this deep in a comment thread.
I think for comparing damage between drastically different damage styles would be to look at the overall resource cost versus the ratio of damage improvement. Maybe see how it would deal against that games beefiest hp player. Like the equivalent to 5e base barbarian at lv 20 being (d12*20)+(5*20) or “240+100” for 340 hp at max. Hypothetically repeatedly using Burning hands cast at 9th is 3d6+8d6, max of 66 (33avg?) vs 340. Thats a total of 6 hits (actually 5.16) to down the barb. That 9th burning hands is 3.66x stronger then base.
Breathe fire at 10th doing 20d6, up from 2d6 is a 10x increase. I dont know pf2e but someone said 240+(120w/ apex item) for 360hp. At hypothetical max repeats, fire breath does 120 for 3 hits to down that pf2e barb.
I never actually played the games, but i’ve been reading a bit on 5e. Is there any way for DC20 burning flames to get “extra effort” damage increases like the other two games?
Thank you for your comment! I can tell you put a lot of thought into your suggestion. I will definitely consider it going forward, and I may even revisit some of the other comparison videos as an addendum/part 2.
I tried to do something similar with my “Heal/Cure Wounds” video where I took a comparably built fighter in each system and I figured out what percentage of their max hp would be healed at each of 5 different levels.
As for DC20 Burning Flames, currently in Alpha 0.7 there are no mana point enhancements for damage increases. I think they will have to add that when they do the spell overhaul which is Beta 0.9 I think.
Currently the way you deal extra damage with Burning Flames in DC20 is by your spell check getting heavy/brutal hits or even critical hits versus their PD. Spell checks do scale with level caping at +17 at level 20, but PD also increases with Combat Mastery, so PD at level 20 would be 8 + 10 (CM) + 7 (Agility) + Armor bonus. That could be a PD of 30+ so you’re not going to get crazy extra damage out of that higher spell check bonus.
Very cool comparison
Thank you! I have been enjoying comparing aspects of the three games. I do a “Refocus” video every Monday!
The DC20 version looks more flavorful and versatile which makes it the most interesting to me
DnD and Pathfinder 2 versions are just about deal damage and deal more damage (The scaling in Pathfinder seems better as upcasting may feel a bit underwhelming in many cases)
Thank you for your comment! I agree that the versatility with DC20 spell casting is a boon with most of their spells. The Mana Point system is well done and even DC20s 4 point action economy lets you seamlessly craft each spell the way you want.
Mondays video is going to compare the spells Fog Cloud (Mist in PF2). We will also be live with more DC20 gameplay if you want to check that out. 7pm EDT.
What i desire is Burning Hands, Thunderwave and Cone of Cold to be onensoell where uou choose the element as they are all conenspells in the end... why can't I have cold dmg Fireball or Poison cone??
Thank you for the comment!
I see your point. Maybe that will come with the spell upgrade in a Beta update. There is a spell update coming.
@@garykinney16I hope some rule is added in DC20 that allows players to Taylor for different elementa.
Hard part is if you just change the Fire in to Cold what do you do with Burning for Cold or Lighting. Like cold could freez all liquids but Lighting?
DC20 has been super interesting after I found abojt it resently. But until I can buh the published version I will probably play D&D 5e, PF2E and Cypher System ❤ gonna run one shot For brother's kids in Cypher System "Magical Wild West" but even in that it is bit weird to take something like bears the Halo of Fire and to say now it is Halo of Ice (I just love Ice magic personally.)
@@xezzee happy gaming my friend!
Isn't the average value of 20d6 70 not 80?!
The average per d6 is 3.5 which is 70, but, D&D average listed for a d6 is 4, so I used that number and you get 80.
The mathematical average damage of a d6 is 3.5 so rounded up to a whole number that would be 4. For multiple dice, 3.5 for a d6 would be a more accurate average total.
So in a sense, you’re both right but 70 would be the more accurate average over time.
Either way, not something to worry about for those of us that will be running DC20 only going forward. 😁
@@davidrose7938 I wonder if all of the totals that use multiple dice in 5e use the fraction and round up the last one if its an odd number of dice. Hmmm…I think that is how the book does it. Good to know. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
I will say that another thing with DC20 that I like is the way it handles rounding. Always up. In 5e its usually down, except for a few times that its not (like with die averages).
Also, I think that rounding up on things like the resistance of a barbarians rage helps to balance it better and allowing it to be an unlimited resource. (There is also the drop in PD which also helps balance rage. Now I want to see a fighter and a barbarian in a party and the fighter parries for the barbarian increasing his PD! That would be cool teamwork!)
@@garykinney16 That's ok. Just *another* error in the RAW.
@@davidrose7938 1) DC20 YES! 2) If you're rounding at all, round when done not in the middle of calculations no?!
Found your channel by chance of Luck. Like. Subcribe. Comment to push the YT-Algorithmn.
Would like to see a series "Spells Compared in.."
Thank you for your support! I am glad you found us!
I have been using our “Refocus” concept of 10ish minute videos (in the spirit of the Refocus mechanic from Pathfinder 2e) to do these spell comparisons.
Maybe I should break these spell comparisons away from Refocus and make them their own series? Or maybe just set up a playlist that is for the spell comparisons and those videos can be in both Refocus and the comparison playlists?
Either way, thank you for your input. We will see what is best, but you have definitely given me ideas! Thank you!
This is not true. A Wizard in 5e, can do any of the enhancements in any of the other systems. The rules for this is found in the DMG.
Thank you for your comment. Would you tell me what page number you are referencing in the DMG?
@@RollWithUsDMs creating new spells: pages 282-283
Thank you for the page number.
These are the rules for a DM to create a new spell. They do not specifically modify the spell “Burning Hands” unless a DM decides to modify it.
The spell is represented in the video as it is written. The same is true of the Pathfinder and DC20 versions.
While a DM allowing extra modifications to spells is very cool, it does not work for a spell comparison video. I needed a baseline to compare against, and that required the spells as they appear.
@@RollWithUsDMs in correct, creating new spells is also modification of spells. You follow the same rules.
@@josephkelly7278 would the spell modification be allowed in adventure league (or whatever the competitive play space is called)? Baseline RAW, a burning hands spell doesnt have the same flexibility as DC20 burning flames.