It's scary how such a small amount of people were adamant on that theory being true, just like the people now who think Lila is Manon. Imo it's one of those things where people just didn't want to believe it was true, there's evidence and it's plausible but people hate it so much that they won't even consider it.
This reminds me of the rose is pink diamond theory from Steven Universe, where the fandom both hates the implications and sees evidence. I always liked the sentimonster Adrien theory, since he’s constantly seen as inhumanly perfect. I just wish miraculous portrayed Adrien better instead of it feeling like jingling keys in my face whenever he gets a plot moment. He has the sentimonster AND Gabe is Hawkmoth secrets kept from him. It’s depressing how they’re always keeping him in the dark. Since they’ve made such crazy plot twists cannon and the creator is clearly inspired by comics, I’m not surprised by this as much anymore. Time travel and alternate universes are par for the course in comics.
@@Ekenebricksnah fam. I was a HARD senti-Adrien denier. The minute I heard ALL of Lila’s names on Manon’s overalls…it’s over. She is definitely Lila lol
One more thing the modeling.... Remember when Lylia/Cerise says she modeled with Adrian before but he clearly doesn't remember.... Manon modeled with him. And for the people saying their eye colors don't match.. just saying colored contacts are a thing.
and another thing about manon's tantrum's, as a kid - if you have a certain temper, it will stick with you as you grow older (that is if you don't get help) and manon has been neglected way too many times by other people for her to have a short temper. not getting what she wants, not enough attention, always losing to ladybug and cat noir whenever she plays with marinette with those dolls. so it makes sense why lila's and manon's tantrums connect. and thomas saying if we'll find out who lila really is is intentional, he didn't say who the hawk moth in the future is (even tho its obvious), but he lets us have guesses and theories on what's lila's real identity (i.e when it revealed lila as "cerise" bianca, and cerise flowers on manon's overalls as a kid). it has some kind of connection, and this theory hits close to home.
@@xtessa1 yet it can also stem from other reasons. like trauma, neglect, abandonment...so many other reasons. sometimes a child needs discipline to not always have a explosive temper tantrum
Yes a lot of this theory seems to center around the idea of Manon having a kind of stunted development due to the obvious neglect she endures Neglect and a young age can lead to someone becoming desperate for attention as they mature which fits fairly well since again Manon is clearly neglected and Lila has always been out for the attention telling her lies and making herself seem like a big deal so that she can get said attention. Heck I’ll bet that her wish remade the world into a reality where every lie she’s ever told is the truth and she’s living the dream life as some celebrity
when you were talking about how each character design has a purpose, i remembered that marinette and adrien's designs are eachother inverted. look it up lol
Honestly feels on brand for them to be taking fan theories and making them canon just to keep the shock/engagement for the show fr. The Manon outfit having the same flowers feels most plausible rn for sure
I have to disagree, with Adrien being a sentimonster there was that painting of Emilie inspired of an infertile woman so they had to have planned it from the start. And then with Manon, like stated in this video she was in the first episode, she has all the same flowers on her overalls as names Lila goes by, the theory only came out I believe after Lila started going by all 3 names so I doubt it was unintentional and made canon because of fans
And as someone that has read a fanfic very similar to the Shadybug episode, it definitely makes sense that they're relying on fans now. (I don't remember the name of the fanfic since it was on UA-cam but Shadybug was a criminal, Hawkmoth was a detective, etc)
@@andres_david25 I know that. But the designs remind me of fanart I saw years ago and I mostly have an issue with other aspects of the show since I recognize the potential as a writer and artist
The fact that Lila becomes the new Hawkmoth in a time travel special may be a hint that she’s a time traveler from the future. Like, she (Teenage Manon) realizes she can’t defeat adult Ladybug and Cat Noir so she uses Nooroo and Chris/TimeTagger to send her back in time to Season 1 where she assumes the identity of Lila
ohh dang, that's smart. and since akuma victims can't remember what they've done, timetagger wouldn't remember that and whats more, future bunnix can't say anything because it'll disrupt the timeline
Possibly because if she used it, the 1'st season hawk moth might find out and use her instead of her using him. I mean he felt the timetagger, so using a miraculous of butterfly was risky, or another possibility, that she might have lost it in the future and this way she could have laerned first handed about thier weaknesses in the past when they were just learning. I mean it is as good explanation as any other
thats cuz she stole the book about miraculouses from adrien's bag, went to a jewelry store and asked them to make a replica of the fox miraculous necklace
This reminds me of the reason that I came up with for this theory, and I think it stems from Manon not having a loving family, I mean she does have her mother dunno about her dad, but I think the reason Manon,Lila,Cerise or Iris whatever her name is, is doing all of this is because she hated that Marinette has both her parents around all the time, wheread she doesn't, her mother is working at that tv station so she doesn't get to see her as often as Marinette does her parents
Yeah I abousloty despise Nadia champick and I will give 3 reasons why: 1.in season 1 episode 18 puppter marinette is kindly allowing manol to have her lady wifi doll but Nadia is so strict on her overly demanding manol to give it back i still hate manol but I don't think she deserves to be neglected by her mother like this is think Nadia is the real villan behind lila's back I'll still hate her though 2.in season 2 episode 2 prime queen at the huge interview of ladybug and cat noir she shows the whole live stream including ladybug and cat noir about their "romantic" moments how inappropriate 3. She always insists marinette babysitting why not alya? She seems to handle manol more than marinette!
no bc literally she is already so outrageous as a character this might as well happen. she's long wrapped back around into being iconic for me and this just might be the cherry on top
im 50/50 with this theory THE ONLY LOGICAL way i can believe this is that maybe future lila as hawkmoth used an akuma to send her teen self(manon) to the past to get the miraculous sooner then she did in her original time, but it’s so far fetched for me idk 😭
Also, wouldn't dealing with the Akuma and using the Miraculous Ladybug send Lila back to her time? Unless it's like the first special, where Ladybug had to choose between healing Paris and healing robot-girl because of the distance - or when she dealt with chat blanc, she also had to go back to her own time, or it would only fix the damage in that timeline
Okay your theory really makes sense. What if Lila is Manon in the future and she somehow time traveled because something bad happened in the future (maybe with her mother) because of Ladybug and Chat Noir. That would explain why she hates Ladybug so much.
wow i used to NEVER believe this theory cus i thought it was so random and could be possible. I thought that there would be no reason for lila to be manon. But now that i watch this video, i think it could be very possible actually. If this theory is true, one thing i want to know is why would manon turn evil in the future. Also guys remember, astruc literally said one time that there are NO coincidences in miraculous , everything is there for a reason. So the flowers on her overalls could definetly mean something, not to mention manon WAS also in the first episode. ALSO OMG I NEVER NOTICED HOW CERISE AND NADYA HAVE SIMIALIAR FACIAL FEATURES
I only thoirezid this because the whole Fandom is i had always Alec was her dad because he has the same skin color as her their faces are similar! And he's kind of a reporter himself!
Y'all, Marinette is Manon's babysitter and Lila is Chris'. Lila is giving Chris too much attention, while Marinette does not towards Manon. I wasn't convinced but this video made me skeptical. Plus their eyes are identical and pretty much their whole image.
1:05 the way my jaw dropped like that is so creepyyy . Miraculous has given me enough nightmares 😂3:05 that is how Rena talks when she makes illusions and that’s also how shadow moth controls his sentis but everything else you said makes total sense
But the thing is in one of the episodes, Marinette was babysitting Manon, Chris and the Twins, they were playing with the Kwamiis thinking that they were plushies. If Lila were to be Manon, then she should have figured out that Marinette was Ladybug because by that episode, Ladybug was the guardian and a season or seasons back Lila had a miraculous so she’d already know what a Kwamii is and how is looks like.
@@FINDTHEMAGICINYOURSELF123 Bruh what? It kinda contridicts the London specials existance.If her holding fluff in a filler episode was supposed to mean something then as soon as season 5 ended and Lila saw Nooro she should have recognised how a Kwami looked and instantely known the Marinette was Ladybug but did she? No she didn't as we see Lila finds out in different ways in the London special
Honestly? I don't think she'd recognise them as kwamis from memory's about a decade old. Can you remember what beanibabies your babysitter had in their house? That's how the kids saw them after all
Yea, before this video I definitely wasn't thinking about this DEEPLY(i did take note tho) and the evidence is all adding up and totally makes sense( i also love the way Thomas is kinda giving us all the clues and also when manon is being babysat you would think that we would still see lila but no its one or the other) anyway if lila turns out to be somone else then I might just stop watching miraculous all TOGETHER😂🐞
Everything u said is facts...i believe manon,Chris, etta and ella is all from the past but their future selves is from the future somehow sucked in the present.is stuck and now couldn't get out yet even if they tried which means ..that made them all look crazy.
Here comes the debunking: One, Astruc is not to be trusted. He's said a lot of things in the past. Of course a lot of it is true, like the Tokyo special, but people are still skeptical about the live action movie, as well as the AU comic, but at 1:42, I'll still try to keep an open mind. It was pretty much established that Lila would be the new Hawkmoth, and Time Tagger would be Chris in the Time Tagger episode, but so far, I'm still skeptical about Manon and Lila being one of the same. (2:22) OK, I can see your point about Wishmaker, but I think that's still a bit of a stretch. (3:02) At 3:17 we have to remember that Wishmaker manipulates people when Akumatized, but Lila is never Akumatized when she manipulates people.(And don't bother to point out the sad baby eyes Manon makes to manipulate Marinette. ANYBODY could manipulate Marinette with their wide baby eyes. She's kind of gullible that way.) (3:17) Manon throws tantrums when she doesn't get attention, but Lila throws a tantrum when she doesn't get her way. There is a huge difference. (3:30) Going back to the eyes issue, Manon's and Lila's eyes are shaped differently. (4:05) OK, the facial structure of Nadia and Cerese are quite similar. I'll give you that much, but, at 4:31, I still remain skeptical. I think the eye brow theory is a stretch, since a good set of tweezers can do that, but I'll keep an open mind. (4:56) Now comparing the angles of Lila's face to Manon, well, maybe one could see similarities, but Manon throws a temper tantrum when nobody pays attention to her, while Lila is throwing a temper tantrum because she not only failed to defeat Chronobug, but Chronobug changed the name of Ladybug's identity in her journal. This is more of a 'Curses! Foiled again" tantrum than it is a "Pay attention to me" tantrum. (5:48) OK, it is interesting that they introduce Manon in the first episode, but don't utilize the character to their full potential, and that Lila appears more often than Manon, but I still feel that's a bit of a stretch. That's like saying Ringo Starr and Yassir Arafat are the same person, because of their similarities in physical characteristics, and nobody's ever seen them in the same room together. (6:29) Again, Astruc is not to be trusted, and, from my point of view really has nothing to do with any fact or theory that Lila and Manon are one of the same. (But, like I said, That's just my point of view.) (6:50) So that's the way I see it. Of course you DO bring up some good points, such as we know nothing about Manon's father. We should also remember that Lila has at least three different mothers. Hey, you might be right all along. I remain skeptical, but I'll keep an open mind, and watch for clues during Season six. I don't agree with your theories, but, as always, another great, interesting video. A fun watch to be sure. I hope you, your husband, and Luke have a great weekend. Christina Vee and Bryce Papenbrook are going to be in Chicago this weekend. I can't wait to meet them. (I'm either gonna dress up as Adrien, or Felix impersonating Adrien. I haven't decided yet. Unfortunately, I have no orange sneakers, but I have everything else. OH, DRAT! It seems that I can't post a smiley face emoji here, for some reason!) Anyway, I hope you get the rest you need. I look forward to your next ML vlog as soon as you are ready. Take care of yourself.
I believed it when i first heard and saw theories... But now i 100% do believe them but before i didn't think of anything...❤because i didn't really know them at all until now.
I remember when I first watched the scene where Lila got so mad that she wasn’t invited to the Diamond’s Dance. I was a bit shocked that she got really mad over that; I never knew she wanted that much attention. Now, given the fact that, Manon never got attention from her mum as she always had to be babysat…
2:03 ⏱ Also, Lila in the London Episode has time traveling abilities, so this theory can confirm WHY she has that of out of all abilities (Which I personally considered strange. No super liar powers of ‘Volipina’ 🦊 but time traveling? Anyone else question that in their heads? )
If Lila/Cerise or whatever her real name is Manon, why does she hate Marinette so much? Marinette practically spoils Manon when babysitting her which leads me to think about what Marinette might do in the future to Manon.
Yeah she kindly allowed to have the lady wifi doll despite nadia's disapproval is she just jealous of her wanting to spend more time with Adrian than her? I think she should want to get revenge on her mom!
Maybe she’s jealous that Marinette has a loving family. I mean, these are just assumptions but, we haven’t seen her dad at all and Nadia is always too busy with work. She sees Marinette have parents who spend time with her and care for her while she doesn’t have that.
I think Lila does not like Marinette because she figured her out. Manon may have found out Marinette is Ladybug in the future, already disliking Ladybug and that just ruined Marinette for her as well. I mean her mom constantly reports on Ladybug and probably talks about the heroes nonstop, so who knows.
@@virnalassiter382I think her issues with Marinette are mostly over her calling Lila’s bull shit I highly doubt she ever had any genuine feelings for Adrienne
Another good point I've seen is that in the London special, Lila already seems pretty experienced with time travel. She seemed to know exactly what she was doing the whole time and was super prepared. If she's Manon from the future and time travelled to the past, obviously that means she has experience with time travel.
Check season 2 episode 10 manon is shown with different colored hair and a different mum. Lila could be manon doing this for years ever since she was a kid
And also how she pretends to have the fox miraculous could be a tribute to hoe close she and Alya were because of Marinette always leaving and Alya stepping in. Not to mention how she seemed to have a specific interest for Alya and dislike for Marinette. You could reason this because she wants to take Mari closest friend since Mari caught her lying but with a plot like Miraculous Ladybug anything is up to debate and nothing should be unconsidered
Remember when the theory of Adrain being a Sentimonster came out it was rejected as be too insane, too impossible. But when the hint of there are at least three sentimonsters in miraculous ladybug it started to gain traction but the nayers believes sentimonster couldn’t be akumitized or use miraculous. Thanks to both Feast and optigami prove the opposite. Then Felix was the first one confirmed followed by Kagomi
Also one thing Astruc (he lies time to time so don't believe everything he says) said that the reason why Lila is a villain in the show is shown but no-one found out! Manon vibes if any?
We haven't seen Manon get mad at her mum exept for the Ladybug doll. Oh my gosh Lila's motivation is to destroy her mum for not letting her have a doll
@@HamziHakim-x9r I honestly think Manon is the most random character for a theory like this.The flowers on her dress have as much merit as me saying. Wait Marinette and Kagami have similar skin tones and they both have blue hair. Marinette is Kagami
My theory is that Manon grew up, something happened, and she decided to somehow time travel to take revenge/prevent it. Imagine there's multiple Manons from different timelines walking around, pretending to be someone else, which would explain how Lila was shown to have multiple moms and how she keeps up so many different identities. I think that in the future Manon's mom dies, leaving her all alone in the world, and she decided to try wnd prevent that through making a wish using the chat noir and ladybug miraculouses, but to do that she needed to become the new hawk moth. I also think she learned to lie and manipulate FROM Marinette, since she often lied to her, or, she observed Marinette's behaviour z which is something kids do. It's also possible Lila hates Ladybug because in little Manon's eyes, Ladybug was a hero she looked up to her entire life, who saved her, only for that hero to embarrass her over a few lies
mild critisism "thats kind of a red flag" she also said that she wanted to play cat noir, because keep in mind, she IS a kid and she wants to win, which is reasonable when your babysitter keeps making you lose. love the video tho ❤ may be a crazy theory but thats what i thought about adrien being a sentimonster...
No cuz thats really interesting if it's true that she grew up to hating Marinette although she literally grew up with her... maybe something really important will happen between them?
umm... Do we forget that Adrien is someone she also wants? My guess is that She wants Adrien in her future.. so- she goes back as a teen to find out who Ladybug is several times... no Manon and Lilia at the same time? Think about this.. WE know Lilia is smart af! Marinette is just a pawn in her plan. Do you remember how mean L.B was mean to Lilia? As if Adrien is her property?
Man i was told Thomas wouldn't be working on the show anymore 😮💨 Tho i do very much like this theory and it would be cool if it's true. And it seems very likely
After hearing this theory the world of miraculous I know is shattered. There is too much details for this theory to not to be true. What an insane theory!
The Puppetter, Timestalker and Lila's henchman Timetagger all wear blue and black. And Puppetter and Timetagger's skins turn purple when assuming these personas. Also, season 4 only has one full fletched filler episode : Simpleman. Unless Lila is Manon and that is the only episode that gives her a major role. The more I think about it and the more it makes sense !
Well it would make sense, as she saw the book "for the first time" but somehow already knew what those pictures in the book were without even being able to read what it says. It would also make sense that she time travelled cuz she constantly helps hawkmoth and Kagami's mom with tips and gets mad when they don't do what she says because she knows how it will end. It would also make sense how she knew the incident happened at the Agreste house. (what if Lila is a sentimonster too? we don't know her dad. ) (Also i just looked up that Kagami's name means mirror. It would make sense that they created her as an opposite ver of marinette, and would make sense why they both have the same color pallet for their fight designs ) (Omg imagine Luka comes back and the new girl they introduced in the trailers play as a hindrance to Adrien and marinettes relationship, and luka ends up with the new girl???) (also we may be getting Zoe back for the bee miraculous? maybe a finally deserved chloe redemption arc?)
Hear me out what if cerise/lila is actually manon(e?) that give us a cause why she wants the ladybug and cat noir miraculous my theory is that we've seen manon(e?) being ignored countless times Which could explain why cerise/lila wants /likes attention directly towards her only ,she does that by the help of her lies ,she might maybe want to get revenge on those who ignored her so she came from the future to take the miraculous of ladybug and cat noir. There's something odd about cerise/lila wanting to make Marinettes life a living hell ,i mean i know there enemies but i think there's another reason why Cerise/lila hates marinette my theory is if she's future manon(e?) then she might hate her for basically being her baby sitter or she did something in the future bad to her so she wants revenge idk is it just me?
another thing is how marinette would babysit manon, manon knew that she loved adrien and also because she loved adrien she was neglecting manon without realsing, which, if manon is lila, probably caused lila to target adrien and also become enemies with marinette
(Idk if my first comment was sent, so having most of it saved, I'll try to recap the points of what I couldn't save) I'm not gonna think too much about it for now. Firstly, because I know this will annoy me if I try to dig deeper to find evidence for myself at such an uncertain time. Secondly, while I was one of the first ones to believe the sentimonster theory, there's something that lacks in comparison. A narrative. By the end of season 3, Emily using the peacock miraculous is confirmed. So with that in mind, it makes sense narratively that Adrien would be a sentimonster. With the Lila and Manon theory, there aren't just simple gaps, because whether you try to look at it on paper or dig deeper into it - it still doesn't make sense in any sense. How would the time loop work without breaking time and space, and why would Lila being future Manon be satisfying? Despite the Senti-Adrien haters, his narrative mattered for the story. With Manon as Lila, I can't see it mattering in a way that isn't just for shock value. My last side 2 points are: Literally in Simpleman Manon and the kids were all *for* stopping the villain, not siding with them. I can't see using Manon's akumatizations and whatever else as proof for being hinted as a "baddie," when in later episodes she wants Ladybug and Chat Noir to win. My second point is that while the Semtimonster theory made sense narratively, I remind you there was also another theory of Zoe being from the future as Adrien and Marinette's child. Which is so awkward, considering Zoe fell in love with Marinette. Ew. In conclusion, I can't take this theory too seriously until time passes and it clears up all doubts towards whichever direction.
I might have a theory. Like WHAT IF since like Lila (Manon) had some problems with her mother and other people because of her short temper etc. ladybug and cat noir have to go back in time to “defeat her” as Manon, so they help her and making that happen, since changing things with time traveling has consequences, Marinette and Adrian won’t be superheroes anymore. Like that, Marinette wouldn’t have to erase her memory. It doesn’t make that much sense, mostly because we see Bunnix in her older versions in the London special (50yrs old) so it means that either way Marinette had give her the miraculous as some point and because the loving thing with Adrian being Cat noir etc. won’t have sense, but yeah it would be pretty interesting.
If Lila is future Manon she would have more resons then anybody else to hate Marinett/Ladybug. Manons mother Nadja spent very much time to report about Ladybug + Cat Noir and give Manon not the attention she need as an kid. And she was acumatasiest in a very young age like Aljas littel sisters to. Maybe this cause mental problems who makes her evil.
I’m like… 90% convinced but there is one issue: Lila has a lighter skin tone than Manon. But Pegasus has a lighter skin tone than Max so who tf cares ig
some people get lighter as they age😅i was a pretty tan kid and i'm much lighter now. if manon spends a lot of time outside but lila doesn't, it could easily explain the skin tone differences ! but yeah also miraculous and white washing🫣hoo boy
What about the fact that their skin colors are different? Unless somehow Manon magically became lighter skinned in the future I don't see how this would work
One question still bothers me, How did lila get to the present where manon is still a child. Bunix still has the miraculous of time and they said in one episode two powers in the same universe cannot exist ( i think it was when monarch was trying to get the time power from the rooster kwami ) so Lila "future manon" cannot possibly go back into the present.
Maybe instead of magic, tech was used? Or whoever is responsible for the time travel is using a different magic, unrelated to kwamis, to allow Lila to time travel
BTW bunnix only knows after the time travel had consequences but for most time its pretty normal none can suspect that lila time traveled if bunnix didnt know
Could have used an Akuma to travel back also there are other time traveling miraculous according to Suhan OR maybe she found an entirely different method of time traveling. She could’ve hitched a ride in the Tardis for all we know
Well in Timebreaker we see Alix going back in time. Plus London special the akuamatized victim/ Lila used time travel. Also, we see future Chris use time travel so there are other ways. Since how the plot connects my guess is that Chris was just a distraction to sneak future Lila in time to defeat kid Mari and Adrien and nobody figured out yet. She seems like even if she loses she doesn't care maybe that's because she can go back in time. Maybe that's how she was able to easily minupulate Gabriel, because she tried and failed before. I feel there is more to Lila then we will ever be shown until the very finale season of her arc. And to think Lila is the person who got kid Chris to be akumatized in the future, if you see the end of Time Tagger then future Chris got akumatized because Lila lied, so she is connected to a time travel episode.
I mean Chris has a crush on or maybe in love with Lila aka Cerise aka Iris. So he would probably do anything for her in the future because she is now the holder of the butterfly miraculous. And also Manon could be adopted by Nadja Chamack(The news reporter) because they don't look alike like at all yk(We already know it ofc). Everything is literally getting confusing rn. We could be the detectors of finding out Lila's or Manon's true identity😂😂😂.
Manon shoved again in season 5 when marinette and the others tried to convice the king of plastic and when he refused they tried to get help from other adults and when marinette was searching help from manons mother then manon was right here
I still don't know Lila/Cerise's goal and why she wanted the both Ladybug & Cat Noir's Miraculous but I am definately right that she will become the next Hawkmoth now that Gabriel Agrest is gone forever.
Jackie, the flower theory is certainly intriguing, but you're suggesting that young Lila (Manon) and Lila from the future (Lila) can exist at the same time. There are a few problems with this. We know from the London special and Timetagger that Lila is extremely intelligent and intentional in her plans. For instance, in the London special she knew that she had missed important details that would lead her to uncover Ladybug's identity. This is why she decided it was essential to travel to the past, to obtain this information. It is therefore highly likely that if Lila is Manon's older self, she time travelled with the same intention of unmasking Ladybug and/or obtaining the Bug and Cat miraculouses. If she had akumatized herself to perform time travel, she would have written herself a note describing what she came to the past to do, as she did in the London special. However, we are shown the origins of Lila's hatred for Ladybug (Volpina) and for Marinette (Chameleon), which are formed in the present, not the future. If Lila really is an older Manon who time travelled to the past, she would already have reasons to hate Ladybug and Marinette. What's more, if she had time travelled via akumatization, she would only forget the events which take place during her akumatization. This means that she would still remember Marinette, who helped raise her. On the contrary, Lila reacts to Marinette as if they were meeting for the first time. Take the Chameleon bathroom scene for example, where the language uses to assess Marinette's character suggests that this is their first proper conversation: 'You seem less dumb than the others' (Lila initially tries her clueless, nice girl act on Marinette thinking it will fool her, which suggests she doesn't know Marinette personally or any better than the others at her school. She then notes Marinette's intelligence, indicating that Lila doesn't know what Marinette is like. Marinette's two most obvious traits, which her classmates are aware of, are her crush on Adrien and her intelligence, which is clear to everyone because she always scores the highest on Ms Bustier's tests. They also note her sense of justice and integrity, refusing to believe she'd ever cheat or cause another classmate to fail. So if Lila knew anything about Marinette, other than her crush on Adrien, it would be Marinette's intelligence. But Lila doesn't know this, the two most obvious traits to any observer, which is why she tries the nice girl act. This suggests that Lila knows nothing about Marinette's character and that they are meeting for the first time.) '...you're either with me or against me' (Lila is asking Marinette to decide where they stand with one another - they're in the process of forming, not continuing, a relationship.) If Lila were Manon she would have known how to get on Marinette's good side because she was raised by Marinette. If she were Manon she would have been more familiar with the ins and outs of Marinette's room in the London special. Instead, she enters it as if it were her first time being there. I dare say she would have had more of a (surprised? contemplative?) reaction to discovering that Marinette is Ladybug. Moreover, Manon has no reason to hate Marinette. Manon loves spending time with Marinette and even though Nadja is often at work, it is obvious in Prime Queen that Manon is proud of her mother and loves her very much. We can also tell that Nadja loves her too and Marinette cares deeply for her. It is suggested that this genuine familial love, or love in general, has been absent from Lila's life. The camera cuts to Lila narrowing her eyes with anger/distress when she hears Andre speak about Gabriel's loving family, how his life is a recipe for happiness, and how he takes it all for granted. Manon is definitely surrounded by loving people: if her mother isn't around she has Marinette, and if she's not there she has Alya, and if Alya's not there she has her friends... An endless net of loving support. So if she had a massive disagreement with Marinette, she had other people to turn to. Also, because we see Lila develop her hatred for Ladybug/Marinette first hand, in the present, it is unlikely that something happened in the future to make her hate Marinette. On the contrary, love for Lila is suggested to be unattainable. She doesn't have the opportunity to be happy. Her lies prevent her from getting to know anyone. She has no parents or people who have known her since birth to pull her out of this. You can't deny that her rage at the end of the London special is terrifying, because it is more than a toddler that didn't grow up - it's the rage of someone who desires the end of the world. She has nothing left to lose. To return to my point about Lila's intentionality, existing in the same period of time as her younger self for no apparent reason goes against Lila's calculated character. Her interest in the Miraculous is too casual and gradual to suggest that she intended to steal the Miraculouses from the very beginning. This is evident from the gradual escalation of her plans with the Miraculous, from petty to existential. At first they are a way of winning Adrien over, through this she meets Gabriel and Hawkmoth, and finally she decides she wants to grant a wish. Also, Bunnix states that nothing should disturb the way things are meant to be. Let's say Lila did travel to the past - from her intentional actions we can assume that she must have travelled to the past to obtain the Miraculous. If this allowed her to grant her world-ending wish, like in the London special, wouldn't Bunnix consider this a perversion of the true order of the universe? Wouldn't she have to be stopped immediately, or at least sent back? Bunnix didn't allow Marinette to see herself in the London special, why would Lila (the villain) be the exception? Also, if Lila is in a relationship with Chris in the future, that would mean that Lila and Marinette are not the same age. Chris is a teenager in the future. If Lila travelled to the present and is age 14-15, this means that she is the same age in the future. We know from Timetagger that Marinette and Adrien are adults (adult Bunnix's age) in the future. This would mean that Lila is significantly younger than them in the future. While this doesn't change the fact that Lila is Hawkmoth in the future, the show clearly wants Lila, Marinette and Adrien on an equal playing field. The days of Gabriel are over; it would be strange if Lila were just a teenager. Also, if Lila did travel to the past, that would mean that there is an extended period of time in the future during which there is no Hawkmoth. The show suggests that Lila will stay and grow in the present, with Marinette. But if Lila is Hawkmoth, Timetagger is impossible. There would be no future Hawkmoth to send Timetagger because Lila is in the present when this event takes place. You could argue that Timetagger is sent to the present before Lila time travels to the present. This wouldn't make sense because, again, Lila is already in the present/she does not show up after Timetagger. I'd also like to offer a rebuttal to the flower theory. The flowers on Manon's clothes are also too generic to be clearly identified. Yes, the big flower could be the iris flower, but the flower clusters look more like chrysanthemums and dahlias than clusters of lila flowers (and out of cerises, irises and lilas, lilas are the only flowers that grow in clusters). There is a third, dark flower on Manon's dungarees which looks more like a carnation. Of the three flowers, irises are the best known; a quick Google search reveals that cerise usually refers to a colour and lila to a dance in Hindu mythology. Chrysanthemums, dahlias and carnations are far better known, so it is highly likely that they are the flowers depicted on Manon's dungarees, rather than the very obscure lila and cerise flowers. This would also explain the 4th flower which went unmentioned in your video - it is an outlier because Lila only has 3 officially named disguises. If the flowers point to Lila being Manon, then the 4th flower shouldn't appear on her dungarees. Sure, maybe her London special fit has a flower name too, but we can only assume, and this doesn't change the fact that two flower names we know of are super obscure. This is just a bit of fun
From season 1 to 5 it's only one school year like how could Manon grow up into Lila . And also all the other characters are still in the same age.I think you guys can understand what I'm saying.
the only thing i can’t get past- how would manon even get to lila’s age without marinette ageing? and even if it was some time travel thing- they’d notice manon was gone, no?
i agree except for manon important because of the first episode. if you see all the changes instory, lore and characters than i got the feeling that miraculous was supose to be a monster of the week show . the next seasons shaped the show
Are we saying that Manon and Lila are the same, so is she a sentimonster by any chance? Because I do not see how Lila can be Manon when thw age gap is so big? Lila is in the same class as them and Manon was nowhere near that age range. Yes the many similarities do make a good point but besides Lila being a sentimonster there is no other reason for them to be the same person. Also Manon loves Marinette, she clearly does, so if Lila is Manon? Why does she despise Marinette now? Did she just forget all the days Marinette has babysitter her, watched her, played with her during her childhood? I understand the theory and it really has a point bur I just have more questions... I need answers cause I just don't get it. It'll be easier if Lila was a sentimonster which ocassionally transform into Manon but rhat would mean that Lila's mother in the Hero's Day special was what? just a random character then? I'm not dismissing the theory just that I have additional questions, because if these questions were to come into play then almost half of the "facts" in the theory does make sense anymore, unless Lila is a sentimonster then that would bw more believable.
I'm still trying to FIND this. I can't figure out WHERE people watched this at, because the internet says it's not available on any streaming site and basically says it hasn't come out yet, from what I can find... I can't find Miraculous World London ANYWHERE.
Wait a minute Lila has been shown to have like 3 moms, and Manon rarely hangs out with her mother because she is so busy, could it be that she is trying to fill up the love she never got ? 🤔 Also Lila just seems so freaking random, she just showed up in class, and started messing with all the classes, she had different families she is crazy talented at shifting her appearance, we don't even know if she is the same age as Marinette and the rest, and we saw she had other classmates and they could be maybe older, she is so talented for someone like 15 or something
I honestly think that Lila is actually adult Chloe from the future, who made a surgery and come back to take revenge on Ladybug. A psycho like Chloe can do this, there’s a lot proof. But I don't understand the thing why Manon would be Lila? what really happened to her that she comes in past and doing all this things? Tell me your theories guys....
I think it makes sense but I don’t think that as of what we’ve seen from Manon is not convincing enough for her to be a Villain now like especially with her final wish. If Manon is her she needs to actually have a way more drastic reason not just “my mom didn’t have time for me”
Oh snap, another Miraculous Ladybug conspiracy theory! Idk who Lila really is but I guess we'll have to wait until season 6 to find out, I have a strong feeling that it's Manon.
![Lets redesign Marinette!! [this took 3 years to make]](/img/n.gif)
I once thought Adrien wasn't a sentimonster... I could buy anything now 😂
It's scary how such a small amount of people were adamant on that theory being true, just like the people now who think Lila is Manon. Imo it's one of those things where people just didn't want to believe it was true, there's evidence and it's plausible but people hate it so much that they won't even consider it.
This reminds me of the rose is pink diamond theory from Steven Universe, where the fandom both hates the implications and sees evidence.
I always liked the sentimonster Adrien theory, since he’s constantly seen as inhumanly perfect. I just wish miraculous portrayed Adrien better instead of it feeling like jingling keys in my face whenever he gets a plot moment. He has the sentimonster AND Gabe is Hawkmoth secrets kept from him. It’s depressing how they’re always keeping him in the dark.
Since they’ve made such crazy plot twists cannon and the creator is clearly inspired by comics, I’m not surprised by this as much anymore. Time travel and alternate universes are par for the course in comics.
HE’S A WHAT?? (I haven’t)t watched the show for like a few years lol)
@@NobodyUndefined There's a difference between Adrien's father twisting his ring to make Adrien obey him and the flowers on a little girls overalls
@@Ekenebricksnah fam. I was a HARD senti-Adrien denier. The minute I heard ALL of Lila’s names on Manon’s overalls…it’s over. She is definitely Lila lol
One more thing the modeling.... Remember when Lylia/Cerise says she modeled with Adrian before but he clearly doesn't remember.... Manon modeled with him.
And for the people saying their eye colors don't match.. just saying colored contacts are a thing.
Yeah but that line was clearly meant to be a lie
YESS WHATT
when did lila say she modeled w adrien?
Or when she said she was best friends with ladybug, could be a reference to Manon's ladybug doll
Also doesnt Lila eyes changes color sometimes when She is changing "personas"?
and another thing about manon's tantrum's, as a kid - if you have a certain temper, it will stick with you as you grow older (that is if you don't get help) and manon has been neglected way too many times by other people for her to have a short temper. not getting what she wants, not enough attention, always losing to ladybug and cat noir whenever she plays with marinette with those dolls. so it makes sense why lila's and manon's tantrums connect. and thomas saying if we'll find out who lila really is is intentional, he didn't say who the hawk moth in the future is (even tho its obvious), but he lets us have guesses and theories on what's lila's real identity (i.e when it revealed lila as "cerise" bianca, and cerise flowers on manon's overalls as a kid). it has some kind of connection, and this theory hits close to home.
temper tantrum is just a part of being a kid.
@@xtessa1 yet it can also stem from other reasons. like trauma, neglect, abandonment...so many other reasons. sometimes a child needs discipline to not always have a explosive temper tantrum
Yes a lot of this theory seems to center around the idea of Manon having a kind of stunted development due to the obvious neglect she endures
Neglect and a young age can lead to someone becoming desperate for attention as they mature which fits fairly well since again Manon is clearly neglected and Lila has always been out for the attention telling her lies and making herself seem like a big deal so that she can get said attention. Heck I’ll bet that her wish remade the world into a reality where every lie she’s ever told is the truth and she’s living the dream life as some celebrity
when you were talking about how each character design has a purpose, i remembered that marinette and adrien's designs are eachother inverted. look it up lol
Yeah it's so obvious Tom made them for eachother-
Honestly feels on brand for them to be taking fan theories and making them canon just to keep the shock/engagement for the show fr. The Manon outfit having the same flowers feels most plausible rn for sure
I have to disagree, with Adrien being a sentimonster there was that painting of Emilie inspired of an infertile woman so they had to have planned it from the start. And then with Manon, like stated in this video she was in the first episode, she has all the same flowers on her overalls as names Lila goes by, the theory only came out I believe after Lila started going by all 3 names so I doubt it was unintentional and made canon because of fans
And as someone that has read a fanfic very similar to the Shadybug episode, it definitely makes sense that they're relying on fans now. (I don't remember the name of the fanfic since it was on UA-cam but Shadybug was a criminal, Hawkmoth was a detective, etc)
@@jenmiranda13 it's a "what if...?" episode, it obviouly has that fanfic AU vibe
@@andres_david25 I know that. But the designs remind me of fanart I saw years ago and I mostly have an issue with other aspects of the show since I recognize the potential as a writer and artist
@@NobodyUndefined The show was originally supposed to have 3 seasons I doubt they could have added the Lila is Manon stuff.
The fact that Lila becomes the new Hawkmoth in a time travel special may be a hint that she’s a time traveler from the future. Like, she (Teenage Manon) realizes she can’t defeat adult Ladybug and Cat Noir so she uses Nooroo and Chris/TimeTagger to send her back in time to Season 1 where she assumes the identity of Lila
ohh dang, that's smart. and since akuma victims can't remember what they've done, timetagger wouldn't remember that and whats more, future bunnix can't say anything because it'll disrupt the timeline
Then why didn't she have butterfly miraculous in S1?
@@tff_thefictionfan Because she would renounce it before traveling to the past.
@@matthewnord5238 and why would she do that?
Possibly because if she used it, the 1'st season hawk moth might find out and use her instead of her using him. I mean he felt the timetagger, so using a miraculous of butterfly was risky, or another possibility, that she might have lost it in the future and this way she could have laerned first handed about thier weaknesses in the past when they were just learning. I mean it is as good explanation as any other
Not to mention she straight away jumped to time travel and i think it would explain why tf she had a fox miraculous lookalike tbh
We actually see Lila in her first showing getting the miraculous from a shop, but the time travel part is true.
thats cuz she stole the book about miraculouses from adrien's bag, went to a jewelry store and asked them to make a replica of the fox miraculous necklace
The Puppeteer (Manon akumatized) and Timestalker (Lila in the special) also have a VERY similar colour palette
So do Ryuko and Ladybug gasp... Oh my gosh Kagami is Marinette
@@EkenebricksLOLL
@@Ekenebricks lmao😂
@@Ekenebricks😂
@@Ekenebricks Well, Marinette is Kagami's closest friend.
She even sounded a bit like manon at the end of the London special.. just me?
I thought too that her voice changed.
The voice actors may change throughout the series, I don't think the voice should be too important for the storyline
@@NaomiLOL-x9o Lila had the same voices actress She had before Lisa Kay Jennings.
Maybe she's Just making her sound different
especially when Lila showed up, we never saw Manon anymore. so i'm very convinced
Puppeteer 2 left the chat
Simple Man Also left the chat
As did action leave the chat.
This reminds me of the reason that I came up with for this theory, and I think it stems from Manon not having a loving family, I mean she does have her mother dunno about her dad, but I think the reason Manon,Lila,Cerise or Iris whatever her name is, is doing all of this is because she hated that Marinette has both her parents around all the time, wheread she doesn't, her mother is working at that tv station so she doesn't get to see her as often as Marinette does her parents
@@Neo-Queenserenityt2l Yess!!! This!!
I believe that too!
Yeah I abousloty despise Nadia champick and I will give 3 reasons why:
1.in season 1 episode 18 puppter marinette is kindly allowing manol to have her lady wifi doll but Nadia is so strict on her overly demanding manol to give it back i still hate manol but I don't think she deserves to be neglected by her mother like this is think Nadia is the real villan behind lila's back I'll still hate her though
2.in season 2 episode 2 prime queen at the huge interview of ladybug and cat noir she shows the whole live stream including ladybug and cat noir about their "romantic" moments how inappropriate
3. She always insists marinette babysitting why not alya? She seems to handle manol more than marinette!
And in season 5 lila said to Sabine "you're like a mother to me"
@@zoe-leighadelman300 maybe because..the last thing she wants to do is take over Mari `s life by taking everyone away from her..
no bc literally she is already so outrageous as a character this might as well happen. she's long wrapped back around into being iconic for me and this just might be the cherry on top
im 50/50 with this theory THE ONLY LOGICAL way i can believe this is that maybe future lila as hawkmoth used an akuma to send her teen self(manon) to the past to get the miraculous sooner then she did in her original time, but it’s so far fetched for me idk 😭
Perhaps she used time tagger to send her younger self back
Also, wouldn't dealing with the Akuma and using the Miraculous Ladybug send Lila back to her time? Unless it's like the first special, where Ladybug had to choose between healing Paris and healing robot-girl because of the distance - or when she dealt with chat blanc, she also had to go back to her own time, or it would only fix the damage in that timeline
Okay your theory really makes sense. What if Lila is Manon in the future and she somehow time traveled because something bad happened in the future (maybe with her mother) because of Ladybug and Chat Noir. That would explain why she hates Ladybug so much.
ARE WE FORGETTING LILA’S DEBUT!”ladybug and I ,we’re like this🤞“And then only hating LB AFTER she calls Lila out.
wow i used to NEVER believe this theory cus i thought it was so random and could be possible. I thought that there would be no reason for lila to be manon. But now that i watch this video, i think it could be very possible actually. If this theory is true, one thing i want to know is why would manon turn evil in the future. Also guys remember, astruc literally said one time that there are NO coincidences in miraculous , everything is there for a reason. So the flowers on her overalls could definetly mean something, not to mention manon WAS also in the first episode. ALSO OMG I NEVER NOTICED HOW CERISE AND NADYA HAVE SIMIALIAR FACIAL FEATURES
I only thoirezid this because the whole Fandom is i had always Alec was her dad because he has the same skin color as her their faces are similar! And he's kind of a reporter himself!
@@virnalassiter382 hmm i dont think alec is her dad.
itd be very interesting to talk about the relationship between Lila and Sabine like what does she want from her? what’s the connection?
As much as I love Sabine I really hate how nice she is to Lila even after what happened in ladybug!
@@virnalassiter382 like everyone likes lila even after all she’s done. its like they totally forget
she wants to steal from marinette everything and everyone, including her own mother 💀☠
If you search up Lila's connection to Marinette on google it says that they are half-siblings...
@@FINDTHEMAGICINYOURSELF123yeah id like to see how are they going to explain that.
Y'all, Marinette is Manon's babysitter and Lila is Chris'. Lila is giving Chris too much attention, while Marinette does not towards Manon. I wasn't convinced but this video made me skeptical.
Plus their eyes are identical and pretty much their whole image.
How'd you get a Blue Comment on UA-cam!?!?!??!
@@wwg2005I guess you have to type specific phrases
@@unknownguywholovespizza lol I literally thought I was tweaking a bit when I saw it.
1:05 the way my jaw dropped like that is so creepyyy . Miraculous has given me enough nightmares 😂3:05 that is how Rena talks when she makes illusions and that’s also how shadow moth controls his sentis but everything else you said makes total sense
But the thing is in one of the episodes, Marinette was babysitting Manon, Chris and the Twins, they were playing with the Kwamiis thinking that they were plushies. If Lila were to be Manon, then she should have figured out that Marinette was Ladybug because by that episode, Ladybug was the guardian and a season or seasons back Lila had a miraculous so she’d already know what a Kwamii is and how is looks like.
in that epsidoe, Chris (Timetagger) adn Manon both hold Fluff AKA the Kwami of timetravelling! Coincidence? I don't think so
@@FINDTHEMAGICINYOURSELF123 Bruh what? It kinda contridicts the London specials existance.If her holding fluff in a filler episode was supposed to mean something then as soon as season 5 ended and Lila saw Nooro she should have recognised how a Kwami looked and instantely known the Marinette was Ladybug but did she? No she didn't as we see Lila finds out in different ways in the London special
Honestly? I don't think she'd recognise them as kwamis from memory's about a decade old. Can you remember what beanibabies your babysitter had in their house? That's how the kids saw them after all
Could be she forgot I mean it would have been years ago and kids don’t always have the best memory
@@samuelspagnoli7326 Yeah but we know Lila is a smart Character she wouldn't forget something like that
6:41 Okay I Believe You Now But Still This Is Crazy How Can Manon And Lila Be The Same Person
Lila is probably Manon from the future.
@@cimsonrose6844That makes a lot of sense. With all peoples theories combined, we already know the truth.
Yea, before this video I definitely wasn't thinking about this DEEPLY(i did take note tho) and the evidence is all adding up and totally makes sense( i also love the way Thomas is kinda giving us all the clues and also when manon is being babysat you would think that we would still see lila but no its one or the other) anyway if lila turns out to be somone else then I might just stop watching miraculous all TOGETHER😂🐞
Hey it's okay if they aren't the same person!
Everything u said is facts...i believe manon,Chris, etta and ella is all from the past but their future selves is from the future somehow sucked in the present.is stuck and now couldn't get out yet even if they tried which means ..that made them all look crazy.
Here comes the debunking: One, Astruc is not to be trusted. He's said a lot of things in the past. Of course a lot of it is true, like the Tokyo special, but people are still skeptical about the live action movie, as well as the AU comic, but at 1:42, I'll still try to keep an open mind. It was pretty much established that Lila would be the new Hawkmoth, and Time Tagger would be Chris in the Time Tagger episode, but so far, I'm still skeptical about Manon and Lila being one of the same. (2:22) OK, I can see your point about Wishmaker, but I think that's still a bit of a stretch. (3:02) At 3:17 we have to remember that Wishmaker manipulates people when Akumatized, but Lila is never Akumatized when she manipulates people.(And don't bother to point out the sad baby eyes Manon makes to manipulate Marinette. ANYBODY could manipulate Marinette with their wide baby eyes. She's kind of gullible that way.) (3:17) Manon throws tantrums when she doesn't get attention, but Lila throws a tantrum when she doesn't get her way. There is a huge difference. (3:30) Going back to the eyes issue, Manon's and Lila's eyes are shaped differently. (4:05) OK, the facial structure of Nadia and Cerese are quite similar. I'll give you that much, but, at 4:31, I still remain skeptical. I think the eye brow theory is a stretch, since a good set of tweezers can do that, but I'll keep an open mind. (4:56) Now comparing the angles of Lila's face to Manon, well, maybe one could see similarities, but Manon throws a temper tantrum when nobody pays attention to her, while Lila is throwing a temper tantrum because she not only failed to defeat Chronobug, but Chronobug changed the name of Ladybug's identity in her journal. This is more of a 'Curses! Foiled again" tantrum than it is a "Pay attention to me" tantrum. (5:48) OK, it is interesting that they introduce Manon in the first episode, but don't utilize the character to their full potential, and that Lila appears more often than Manon, but I still feel that's a bit of a stretch. That's like saying Ringo Starr and Yassir Arafat are the same person, because of their similarities in physical characteristics, and nobody's ever seen them in the same room together. (6:29) Again, Astruc is not to be trusted, and, from my point of view really has nothing to do with any fact or theory that Lila and Manon are one of the same. (But, like I said, That's just my point of view.) (6:50)
So that's the way I see it. Of course you DO bring up some good points, such as we know nothing about Manon's father. We should also remember that Lila has at least three different mothers. Hey, you might be right all along. I remain skeptical, but I'll keep an open mind, and watch for clues during Season six.
I don't agree with your theories, but, as always, another great, interesting video. A fun watch to be sure. I hope you, your husband, and Luke have a great weekend. Christina Vee and Bryce Papenbrook are going to be in Chicago this weekend. I can't wait to meet them. (I'm either gonna dress up as Adrien, or Felix impersonating Adrien. I haven't decided yet. Unfortunately, I have no orange sneakers, but I have everything else. OH, DRAT! It seems that I can't post a smiley face emoji here, for some reason!)
Anyway, I hope you get the rest you need. I look forward to your next ML vlog as soon as you are ready. Take care of yourself.
@@nankypooh655 Thanks for at least keeping an open mind!! Also thank you, i hope you have a great weekend!😊
@@Miraculouslyjackie 😊
I believed it when i first heard and saw theories... But now i 100% do believe them but before i didn't think of anything...❤because i didn't really know them at all until now.
I remember when I first watched the scene where Lila got so mad that she wasn’t invited to the Diamond’s Dance. I was a bit shocked that she got really mad over that; I never knew she wanted that much attention. Now, given the fact that, Manon never got attention from her mum as she always had to be babysat…
2:03 ⏱ Also, Lila in the London Episode has time traveling abilities, so this theory can confirm WHY she has that of out of all abilities (Which I personally considered strange. No super liar powers of ‘Volipina’ 🦊 but time traveling? Anyone else question that in their heads? )
Also the smirk when she found out mari is ladybug really reminds me of manon
If Lila/Cerise or whatever her real name is Manon, why does she hate Marinette so much? Marinette practically spoils Manon when babysitting her which leads me to think about what Marinette might do in the future to Manon.
Yeah she kindly allowed to have the lady wifi doll despite nadia's disapproval is she just jealous of her wanting to spend more time with Adrian than her? I think she should want to get revenge on her mom!
Maybe she’s jealous that Marinette has a loving family. I mean, these are just assumptions but, we haven’t seen her dad at all and Nadia is always too busy with work. She sees Marinette have parents who spend time with her and care for her while she doesn’t have that.
I think Lila does not like Marinette because she figured her out. Manon may have found out Marinette is Ladybug in the future, already disliking Ladybug and that just ruined Marinette for her as well. I mean her mom constantly reports on Ladybug and probably talks about the heroes nonstop, so who knows.
@@virnalassiter382I think her issues with Marinette are mostly over her calling Lila’s bull shit
I highly doubt she ever had any genuine feelings for Adrienne
@@EgoisticPerson That would be a dumb motivation for Lila my mum didn't give me enough attention so I will terrorise the city of paris
Another good point I've seen is that in the London special, Lila already seems pretty experienced with time travel. She seemed to know exactly what she was doing the whole time and was super prepared. If she's Manon from the future and time travelled to the past, obviously that means she has experience with time travel.
Keep in mind chloe’s jacket and shirt was made to foreshadow that she’s the bee miraculous holder.. it’s possible but i don’t see it.
At first I was like who tf is Manon but then I realised OHHHHH
Ngl i thought Manon from Katseye😭
Check season 2 episode 10 manon is shown with different colored hair and a different mum. Lila could be manon doing this for years ever since she was a kid
I believe it too... It makes sense
And also how she pretends to have the fox miraculous could be a tribute to hoe close she and Alya were because of Marinette always leaving and Alya stepping in. Not to mention how she seemed to have a specific interest for Alya and dislike for Marinette. You could reason this because she wants to take Mari closest friend since Mari caught her lying but with a plot like Miraculous Ladybug anything is up to debate and nothing should be unconsidered
Remember when the theory of Adrain being a Sentimonster came out it was rejected as be too insane, too impossible. But when the hint of there are at least three sentimonsters in miraculous ladybug it started to gain traction but the nayers believes sentimonster couldn’t be akumitized or use miraculous. Thanks to both Feast and optigami prove the opposite. Then Felix was the first one confirmed followed by Kagomi
I got the same Theory since a lot of time, since before that Theory Becomes famous
I also would say that if it was a random character to be the new Hawkmoth then it would be the most incredible plot twist in Miraculous history!
This could possibly be true
Also one thing Astruc (he lies time to time so don't believe everything he says) said that the reason why Lila is a villain in the show is shown but no-one found out! Manon vibes if any?
He said that??
We haven't seen Manon get mad at her mum exept for the Ladybug doll. Oh my gosh Lila's motivation is to destroy her mum for not letting her have a doll
@@СимонаСергиева-с5ф Yes he did in an interview, Haze Clarke did make a video of that.
@@Ekenebricks We haven't seen it yet and we haven't seen everything! But you're right for that to be a strange motivation!
@@HamziHakim-x9r I honestly think Manon is the most random character for a theory like this.The flowers on her dress have as much merit as me saying. Wait Marinette and Kagami have similar skin tones and they both have blue hair. Marinette is Kagami
My theory is that Manon grew up, something happened, and she decided to somehow time travel to take revenge/prevent it. Imagine there's multiple Manons from different timelines walking around, pretending to be someone else, which would explain how Lila was shown to have multiple moms and how she keeps up so many different identities. I think that in the future Manon's mom dies, leaving her all alone in the world, and she decided to try wnd prevent that through making a wish using the chat noir and ladybug miraculouses, but to do that she needed to become the new hawk moth. I also think she learned to lie and manipulate FROM Marinette, since she often lied to her, or, she observed Marinette's behaviour z which is something kids do. It's also possible Lila hates Ladybug because in little Manon's eyes, Ladybug was a hero she looked up to her entire life, who saved her, only for that hero to embarrass her over a few lies
@@ktostam35 this is a really good theory omg
Manon, Chris and Alya's sisters do like justice and ladybug though.
mild critisism "thats kind of a red flag"
she also said that she wanted to play cat noir, because keep in mind, she IS a kid and she wants to win, which is reasonable when your babysitter keeps making you lose.
love the video tho ❤
may be a crazy theory but thats what i thought about adrien being a sentimonster...
No cuz thats really interesting if it's true that she grew up to hating Marinette although she literally grew up with her... maybe something really important will happen between them?
umm... Do we forget that Adrien is someone she also wants? My guess is that She wants Adrien in her future.. so- she goes back as a teen to find out who Ladybug is several times... no Manon and Lilia at the same time? Think about this.. WE know Lilia is smart af! Marinette is just a pawn in her plan. Do you remember how mean L.B was mean to Lilia? As if Adrien is her property?
Man i was told Thomas wouldn't be working on the show anymore 😮💨
Tho i do very much like this theory and it would be cool if it's true. And it seems very likely
After hearing this theory the world of miraculous I know is shattered. There is too much details for this theory to not to be true. What an insane theory!
The Puppetter, Timestalker and Lila's henchman Timetagger all wear blue and black. And Puppetter and Timetagger's skins turn purple when assuming these personas.
Also, season 4 only has one full fletched filler episode : Simpleman. Unless Lila is Manon and that is the only episode that gives her a major role.
The more I think about it and the more it makes sense !
but how can manon and lila be the same person but diffrent age in the same timeline??????
🤯
The miracle of time travel
It was so sad seeing Adrian cry,my heart is broken 😢💔
Well it would make sense, as she saw the book "for the first time" but somehow already knew what those pictures in the book were without even being able to read what it says. It would also make sense that she time travelled cuz she constantly helps hawkmoth and Kagami's mom with tips and gets mad when they don't do what she says because she knows how it will end. It would also make sense how she knew the incident happened at the Agreste house.
(what if Lila is a sentimonster too? we don't know her dad. )
(Also i just looked up that Kagami's name means mirror. It would make sense that they created her as an opposite ver of marinette, and would make sense why they both have the same color pallet for their fight designs )
(Omg imagine Luka comes back and the new girl they introduced in the trailers play as a hindrance to Adrien and marinettes relationship, and luka ends up with the new girl???)
(also we may be getting Zoe back for the bee miraculous? maybe a finally deserved chloe redemption arc?)
Y’all need to remember that manon is… an absolute angel… 😊😊😊
Hear me out what if cerise/lila is actually manon(e?) that give us a cause why she wants the ladybug and cat noir miraculous my theory is that we've seen manon(e?) being ignored countless times Which could explain why cerise/lila wants /likes attention directly towards her only ,she does that by the help of her lies ,she might maybe want to get revenge on those who ignored her so she came from the future to take the miraculous of ladybug and cat noir. There's something odd about cerise/lila wanting to make Marinettes life a living hell ,i mean i know there enemies but i think there's another reason why Cerise/lila hates marinette my theory is if she's future manon(e?) then she might hate her for basically being her baby sitter or she did something in the future bad to her so she wants revenge idk is it just me?
another thing is how marinette would babysit manon, manon knew that she loved adrien and also because she loved adrien she was neglecting manon without realsing, which, if manon is lila, probably caused lila to target adrien and also become enemies with marinette
(Idk if my first comment was sent, so having most of it saved, I'll try to recap the points of what I couldn't save)
I'm not gonna think too much about it for now. Firstly, because I know this will annoy me if I try to dig deeper to find evidence for myself at such an uncertain time.
Secondly, while I was one of the first ones to believe the sentimonster theory, there's something that lacks in comparison. A narrative.
By the end of season 3, Emily using the peacock miraculous is confirmed. So with that in mind, it makes sense narratively that Adrien would be a sentimonster. With the Lila and Manon theory, there aren't just simple gaps, because whether you try to look at it on paper or dig deeper into it - it still doesn't make sense in any sense. How would the time loop work without breaking time and space, and why would Lila being future Manon be satisfying?
Despite the Senti-Adrien haters, his narrative mattered for the story. With Manon as Lila, I can't see it mattering in a way that isn't just for shock value.
My last side 2 points are:
Literally in Simpleman Manon and the kids were all *for* stopping the villain, not siding with them. I can't see using Manon's akumatizations and whatever else as proof for being hinted as a "baddie," when in later episodes she wants Ladybug and Chat Noir to win.
My second point is that while the Semtimonster theory made sense narratively, I remind you there was also another theory of Zoe being from the future as Adrien and Marinette's child. Which is so awkward, considering Zoe fell in love with Marinette. Ew.
In conclusion, I can't take this theory too seriously until time passes and it clears up all doubts towards whichever direction.
"lila is manon" SAY WHA-?
I might have a theory. Like WHAT IF since like Lila (Manon) had some problems with her mother and other people because of her short temper etc. ladybug and cat noir have to go back in time to “defeat her” as Manon, so they help her and making that happen, since changing things with time traveling has consequences, Marinette and Adrian won’t be superheroes anymore. Like that, Marinette wouldn’t have to erase her memory.
It doesn’t make that much sense, mostly because we see Bunnix in her older versions in the London special (50yrs old) so it means that either way Marinette had give her the miraculous as some point and because the loving thing with Adrian being Cat noir etc. won’t have sense, but yeah it would be pretty interesting.
5:18 yup 😭 that’s what I thought when watching 😭
If Lila is future Manon she would have more resons then anybody else to hate Marinett/Ladybug. Manons mother Nadja spent very much time to report about Ladybug + Cat Noir and give Manon not the attention she need as an kid. And she was acumatasiest in a very young age like Aljas littel sisters to. Maybe this cause mental problems who makes her evil.
I've been thinking about this for a while and this video comes up at the right time
no wonder y i thought the Lila from London special looks like someone i am already familiar with
an extra one blonde manon i think she’s been switching identities since she was a child
nope thats just reusing model, the child was white
@@denjiiiyttyooo244 Wait Lila is white as well and Manon isn't so that means Manon can't be Lila theory debunked
@@Ekenebricks theres no evidence of lila being white
@Ekene-rk3uw Lila is slightly brown
She is darker than Marinette
@@estherhazina889 In the episode risk Lila is clearly white but Manon is always shown with darker skin
I’m like… 90% convinced but there is one issue: Lila has a lighter skin tone than Manon. But Pegasus has a lighter skin tone than Max so who tf cares ig
some people get lighter as they age😅i was a pretty tan kid and i'm much lighter now. if manon spends a lot of time outside but lila doesn't, it could easily explain the skin tone differences !
but yeah also miraculous and white washing🫣hoo boy
Yeah plus miraculous makes a lot of errors...
omg i didn't realise that was lila in the London special
Manon would know about the miraculous because of her mother’s job.
This theory reminds me of the theory Adrien being a sentimonster and it's as interesting as Adrien sentimonster theory so I believe in it.
6:41 He Just Hinted It
Y'all did anyone else notice that in the London special when Lila talked she sounded so different from her original voice? 🤔
What about the fact that their skin colors are different? Unless somehow Manon magically became lighter skinned in the future I don't see how this would work
One question still bothers me, How did lila get to the present where manon is still a child. Bunix still has the miraculous of time and they said in one episode two powers in the same universe cannot exist ( i think it was when monarch was trying to get the time power from the rooster kwami ) so Lila "future manon" cannot possibly go back into the present.
I dunno what your saying, but yeah Bunnix would have stopped her,
Maybe instead of magic, tech was used? Or whoever is responsible for the time travel is using a different magic, unrelated to kwamis, to allow Lila to time travel
BTW bunnix only knows after the time travel had consequences but for most time its pretty normal none can suspect that lila time traveled if bunnix didnt know
Could have used an Akuma to travel back also there are other time traveling miraculous according to Suhan OR maybe she found an entirely different method of time traveling. She could’ve hitched a ride in the Tardis for all we know
Well in Timebreaker we see Alix going back in time. Plus London special the akuamatized victim/ Lila used time travel. Also, we see future Chris use time travel so there are other ways. Since how the plot connects my guess is that Chris was just a distraction to sneak future Lila in time to defeat kid Mari and Adrien and nobody figured out yet. She seems like even if she loses she doesn't care maybe that's because she can go back in time. Maybe that's how she was able to easily minupulate Gabriel, because she tried and failed before. I feel there is more to Lila then we will ever be shown until the very finale season of her arc. And to think Lila is the person who got kid Chris to be akumatized in the future, if you see the end of Time Tagger then future Chris got akumatized because Lila lied, so she is connected to a time travel episode.
I would hate for this to be true because Manon has darker skin than Lila and it feels problematic to make them the same person.
some people get lighter as they get older! - someone who got lighter as they got older
Wait this theory is FIRE actually!!
Im starting to think Lila's eyebrows are fake like her hair
I remember a few years ago I didn’t like their theory or the Adrien is a senti monster but I have to accept it 😭
I mean Chris has a crush on or maybe in love with Lila aka Cerise aka Iris. So he would probably do anything for her in the future because she is now the holder of the butterfly miraculous. And also Manon could be adopted by
Nadja Chamack(The news reporter) because they don't look alike like at all yk(We already know it ofc). Everything is literally getting confusing rn. We could be the detectors of finding out Lila's or Manon's true identity😂😂😂.
6:45 It’s Adult version of Manon, seriously NO GOD DAMN JOKE & ESPECIALLY 🤯NO DOUBT ABOUT IT TOO🤯!!!!!
Manon shoved again in season 5 when marinette and the others tried to convice the king of plastic and when he refused they tried to get help from other adults and when marinette was searching help from manons mother then manon was right here
I still don't know Lila/Cerise's goal and why she wanted the both Ladybug & Cat Noir's Miraculous but I am definately right that she will become the next Hawkmoth now that Gabriel Agrest is gone forever.
I didn’t think about this before🤔
icl this lowkey makes sense
I actually think that the new hawk moth isn't Cerise or Lila but is actually the Supreme from Betterfly's World!
I still don’t think it makes sense they are completely different characters and she likes ladybug when Lyla doesn’t
Lila also has three moms and weve only seen two........
we've seen all 3.Her first mom in heroes day.Her second one in strikeback and her 3rd one in revelation
@@Ekenebricks oh sorry i just rewatched seasons 4 and 5 so i only remember those parts
@@SarSaryt333 It's okay
Jackie, the flower theory is certainly intriguing, but you're suggesting that young Lila (Manon) and Lila from the future (Lila) can exist at the same time. There are a few problems with this.
We know from the London special and Timetagger that Lila is extremely intelligent and intentional in her plans. For instance, in the London special she knew that she had missed important details that would lead her to uncover Ladybug's identity. This is why she decided it was essential to travel to the past, to obtain this information. It is therefore highly likely that if Lila is Manon's older self, she time travelled with the same intention of unmasking Ladybug and/or obtaining the Bug and Cat miraculouses. If she had akumatized herself to perform time travel, she would have written herself a note describing what she came to the past to do, as she did in the London special.
However, we are shown the origins of Lila's hatred for Ladybug (Volpina) and for Marinette (Chameleon), which are formed in the present, not the future. If Lila really is an older Manon who time travelled to the past, she would already have reasons to hate Ladybug and Marinette. What's more, if she had time travelled via akumatization, she would only forget the events which take place during her akumatization. This means that she would still remember Marinette, who helped raise her. On the contrary, Lila reacts to Marinette as if they were meeting for the first time. Take the Chameleon bathroom scene for example, where the language uses to assess Marinette's character suggests that this is their first proper conversation:
'You seem less dumb than the others' (Lila initially tries her clueless, nice girl act on Marinette thinking it will fool her, which suggests she doesn't know Marinette personally or any better than the others at her school. She then notes Marinette's intelligence, indicating that Lila doesn't know what Marinette is like. Marinette's two most obvious traits, which her classmates are aware of, are her crush on Adrien and her intelligence, which is clear to everyone because she always scores the highest on Ms Bustier's tests. They also note her sense of justice and integrity, refusing to believe she'd ever cheat or cause another classmate to fail. So if Lila knew anything about Marinette, other than her crush on Adrien, it would be Marinette's intelligence. But Lila doesn't know this, the two most obvious traits to any observer, which is why she tries the nice girl act. This suggests that Lila knows nothing about Marinette's character and that they are meeting for the first time.)
'...you're either with me or against me' (Lila is asking Marinette to decide where they stand with one another - they're in the process of forming, not continuing, a relationship.)
If Lila were Manon she would have known how to get on Marinette's good side because she was raised by Marinette. If she were Manon she would have been more familiar with the ins and outs of Marinette's room in the London special. Instead, she enters it as if it were her first time being there. I dare say she would have had more of a (surprised? contemplative?) reaction to discovering that Marinette is Ladybug.
Moreover, Manon has no reason to hate Marinette. Manon loves spending time with Marinette and even though Nadja is often at work, it is obvious in Prime Queen that Manon is proud of her mother and loves her very much. We can also tell that Nadja loves her too and Marinette cares deeply for her. It is suggested that this genuine familial love, or love in general, has been absent from Lila's life. The camera cuts to Lila narrowing her eyes with anger/distress when she hears Andre speak about Gabriel's loving family, how his life is a recipe for happiness, and how he takes it all for granted. Manon is definitely surrounded by loving people: if her mother isn't around she has Marinette, and if she's not there she has Alya, and if Alya's not there she has her friends... An endless net of loving support. So if she had a massive disagreement with Marinette, she had other people to turn to. Also, because we see Lila develop her hatred for Ladybug/Marinette first hand, in the present, it is unlikely that something happened in the future to make her hate Marinette.
On the contrary, love for Lila is suggested to be unattainable. She doesn't have the opportunity to be happy. Her lies prevent her from getting to know anyone. She has no parents or people who have known her since birth to pull her out of this. You can't deny that her rage at the end of the London special is terrifying, because it is more than a toddler that didn't grow up - it's the rage of someone who desires the end of the world. She has nothing left to lose.
To return to my point about Lila's intentionality, existing in the same period of time as her younger self for no apparent reason goes against Lila's calculated character. Her interest in the Miraculous is too casual and gradual to suggest that she intended to steal the Miraculouses from the very beginning. This is evident from the gradual escalation of her plans with the Miraculous, from petty to existential. At first they are a way of winning Adrien over, through this she meets Gabriel and Hawkmoth, and finally she decides she wants to grant a wish.
Also, Bunnix states that nothing should disturb the way things are meant to be. Let's say Lila did travel to the past - from her intentional actions we can assume that she must have travelled to the past to obtain the Miraculous. If this allowed her to grant her world-ending wish, like in the London special, wouldn't Bunnix consider this a perversion of the true order of the universe? Wouldn't she have to be stopped immediately, or at least sent back? Bunnix didn't allow Marinette to see herself in the London special, why would Lila (the villain) be the exception?
Also, if Lila is in a relationship with Chris in the future, that would mean that Lila and Marinette are not the same age. Chris is a teenager in the future. If Lila travelled to the present and is age 14-15, this means that she is the same age in the future. We know from Timetagger that Marinette and Adrien are adults (adult Bunnix's age) in the future. This would mean that Lila is significantly younger than them in the future. While this doesn't change the fact that Lila is Hawkmoth in the future, the show clearly wants Lila, Marinette and Adrien on an equal playing field. The days of Gabriel are over; it would be strange if Lila were just a teenager.
Also, if Lila did travel to the past, that would mean that there is an extended period of time in the future during which there is no Hawkmoth. The show suggests that Lila will stay and grow in the present, with Marinette. But if Lila is Hawkmoth, Timetagger is impossible. There would be no future Hawkmoth to send Timetagger because Lila is in the present when this event takes place. You could argue that Timetagger is sent to the present before Lila time travels to the present. This wouldn't make sense because, again, Lila is already in the present/she does not show up after Timetagger.
I'd also like to offer a rebuttal to the flower theory. The flowers on Manon's clothes are also too generic to be clearly identified. Yes, the big flower could be the iris flower, but the flower clusters look more like chrysanthemums and dahlias than clusters of lila flowers (and out of cerises, irises and lilas, lilas are the only flowers that grow in clusters). There is a third, dark flower on Manon's dungarees which looks more like a carnation. Of the three flowers, irises are the best known; a quick Google search reveals that cerise usually refers to a colour and lila to a dance in Hindu mythology. Chrysanthemums, dahlias and carnations are far better known, so it is highly likely that they are the flowers depicted on Manon's dungarees, rather than the very obscure lila and cerise flowers. This would also explain the 4th flower which went unmentioned in your video - it is an outlier because Lila only has 3 officially named disguises. If the flowers point to Lila being Manon, then the 4th flower shouldn't appear on her dungarees. Sure, maybe her London special fit has a flower name too, but we can only assume, and this doesn't change the fact that two flower names we know of are super obscure.
This is just a bit of fun
Ate ✨
Hungarians: We thinking the same too for years! 😭
From season 1 to 5 it's only one school year like how could Manon grow up into Lila . And also all the other characters are still in the same age.I think you guys can understand what I'm saying.
the only thing i can’t get past- how would manon even get to lila’s age without marinette ageing? and even if it was some time travel thing- they’d notice manon was gone, no?
i agree except for manon important because of the first episode. if you see all the changes instory, lore and characters than i got the feeling that miraculous was supose to be a monster of the week show . the next seasons shaped the show
Yea i think your right and i think lila/"cerise"(sry if i spelled that wrong) is from the future
Are we saying that Manon and Lila are the same, so is she a sentimonster by any chance? Because I do not see how Lila can be Manon when thw age gap is so big?
Lila is in the same class as them and Manon was nowhere near that age range. Yes the many similarities do make a good point but besides Lila being a sentimonster there is no other reason for them to be the same person.
Also Manon loves Marinette, she clearly does, so if Lila is Manon? Why does she despise Marinette now? Did she just forget all the days Marinette has babysitter her, watched her, played with her during her childhood?
I understand the theory and it really has a point bur I just have more questions... I need answers cause I just don't get it. It'll be easier if Lila was a sentimonster which ocassionally transform into Manon but rhat would mean that Lila's mother in the Hero's Day special was what? just a random character then?
I'm not dismissing the theory just that I have additional questions, because if these questions were to come into play then almost half of the "facts" in the theory does make sense anymore, unless Lila is a sentimonster then that would bw more believable.
I'm still trying to FIND this. I can't figure out WHERE people watched this at, because the internet says it's not available on any streaming site and basically says it hasn't come out yet, from what I can find... I can't find Miraculous World London ANYWHERE.
Wait a minute
Lila has been shown to have like 3 moms, and Manon rarely hangs out with her mother because she is so busy, could it be that she is trying to fill up the love she never got ? 🤔
Also Lila just seems so freaking random, she just showed up in class, and started messing with all the classes, she had different families she is crazy talented at shifting her appearance, we don't even know if she is the same age as Marinette and the rest, and we saw she had other classmates and they could be maybe older, she is so talented for someone like 15 or something
if this theory is true i will literally be so angry - its sooo ridiculous, utterly ridiculous
I honestly think that Lila is actually adult Chloe from the future, who made a surgery and come back to take revenge on Ladybug.
A psycho like Chloe can do this, there’s a lot proof. But I don't understand the thing why Manon would be Lila? what really happened to her that she comes in past and doing all this things?
Tell me your theories guys....
I think it makes sense but I don’t think that as of what we’ve seen from Manon is not convincing enough for her to be a Villain now like especially with her final wish. If Manon is her she needs to actually have a way more drastic reason not just “my mom didn’t have time for me”
Giga Manon. After all she akumatized Chris in timetagger
I mean we used to see manon all the time along with Chris and Chris was time tagger so what is manon???? I totally believe this
Since rose quartz was pink diamond I can believe Lila is Manon
At this point i feel like anything is possible with this show lol, i wouldnt be surprised
Manon And Lila Are The Same Person No Way
Oh snap, another Miraculous Ladybug conspiracy theory! Idk who Lila really is but I guess we'll have to wait until season 6 to find out, I have a strong feeling that it's Manon.