You guya should do a video with Optane SSDs, to see if its low storage latency has any effect on this system latency stuff. Some enterprise Optane PCIe drives can be had for like 200 euros for 500GB.
Doesn't the memory latency have something to do with the snappy system experience? Changing the CPU also means changing the motherboard and the sub timings of it. Each IMC + Motherboard will have a different timing configurations. If you wanna test and eliminate that factor you gotta try the same memory kit heavily tuned to the best possible on each CPU memory controller or just use some expectation formula that buldzoid have made for us for each kind of memory kit with IMC limitations for easy overclocking. That would show the truth behind whether it was memory configuration or just the IO being away from the CPU in 12th gen Intel. It will be really interesting.
I get some things you've mentioned about 11 driving you crazy at times. I early adopted it way back and had even switched to 10 and then Linux for a bit before I came back (does seem to work nice Tiny11 12700KF). Also use CTT's utility to get the right click menu back. As I use both, Am not really sure if the latency on file transfers between older machines are any different since most of my NAS and file transfer is done on the Linux side. Anyway, Kudos for taking time out to inform us about this series and do testing.
I recently went from a 3950x to the 11900k found that my experience navigating windows became noticeably smoother. It got a lot of hate when it came out but if you can get em cheap id say its worth it
I picked up a new i7 11700KF for a discounted price of about 6700 THB (180 USD) in Thailand in October 2022, was that a good deal? I also found a very nice MSI Z590 Gaming Plus motherboard for 4300 THB (116 USD), both for about the same price as a i5 12400F and B660 motherboard at that time... my son first wanted a gen12 i5, but then I saw the gen11 i7 for around the same price..... it received a lot of bad reviews, though, but is still pretty decent I think, doesn't even run all that hot with a 360mm AIO and UV + OC
@@CitarNosis317 the 11900kf you can get for like 200 bucks and performs on par with a 12700kf at 1440p. Anything up to an RTX 4080 should be fine. 10th gen is overpriced trash at this point
I always enjoy watching these kinds of videos just to stay informed even though all my current PCs are on AM4 for ease of maintenance and interchangeability. Makes things easier to solve when there are 10 computers in the house and I only need a spare kit of DDR4, a G SKU, and a cheap B450 on hand as backups for troubleshooting. Even though I have several extra am4 chips, and 2 trays of spare DDR4 at this point. I may pickup some newer secondhand intel stuff to mess around with in my homelab which currently is a dozen 6th gen i7 T SKUs in Lenovo M900 Tiny’s. Keep up the good work as a creator Bryan! These research rabbit holes are great.
9900k is ringbus and as such should be very snappy. It's still a great CPU and I wouldn't really change it if you don't do heavy multitasking or need the newer technologies that the new platforms provide.
@@bgtubber I had my 9900K from 2018 to around February of this year. I was still pretty happy with it, but I couldn't turn down the 12900K deal that Microcenter had for the CPU and an Asus Z690 motherboard for $420. I ended up selling my awesome Asus Strix Z380 E-Gaming motherboard, my old 240mm AIO, 32GB of DDR4-3600 RAM and the 9900K to my brother for $350. He absolutely loves it. He went from an i7-7700 to the 9900K. It was a win-win for both of us.
Hey, nice Video. Can you do more Videos about System Input Lag? Would love to see someone testing certain Windows Optimization Tweaks tested for Input Latency. No one really did that...
This is a really good series Brian. Could you test single CCD ryzens like the 7700x or 7800x3d? I'd think that those cpus should be close to 10th/11th since they don't need special schedulers.
i overclocked my 6600k to 4.5ghz and i noticed a big increase in snappyness, i know its slow compared to newer systems but i am still stoked about it 😅
I had my 8700k up to 5.0ghz, it’s amazing what an OC can do if your cooling can handle it. I had to delid and apply new paste under the IHS to break 4.3 on mine with air cooling though.
ya tbh when i do a cinebench run it reaches tjmax but i dont do anything demanding it idles at like 28c and spikes around 80 once in a blue moon so w.e. lol
I didn't catch this until just now, the algorithm never recommended me this video and I wound up having to look through your channel's posts to find it after getting recommended your old video again. I'm so glad you tested the 11th gen and confirmed my suspicions. Now I can rest easy knowing I made a good choice cornering the market on all those 11th gen CPUs no one wanted. :) My Intention is to use Windows 10 for a very long time, probably past the consumer EOL. So I wanted to bake in PCI-E 4.0 and AVX512 support on a monolithic die... the latter of which may turn out to be important since Alder Lake and Raptor Lake ripped it out, which was something I didn't even anticipate happening when I got this machine. Sure, the top model has two cores fewer than 10th gen, but the 11700K and the 10700K are pretty much directly comparable (I bought the 11700K at a discount, not the top 11900K anyway), plus it's not like Intel had yet standardized on 10 cores at that time anyway... I was upgrading from 4 cores/8 threads, so 8 cores was fine for me.
Latency is a great topic. I'm glad you're covering it. The problem with the 11900k is that it should've been on an i7 and intel shouldn't have had an i9 for 11th gen.
I run an 11900k with a 360 AIO in overclock and keeping on that load line, it is like lightning and only really peaks 300watts under all core load (5.4ghz). In terms of games paired with PCIE gen4, it really is a formidable chip for gaming in fact probably one of the best when you factor everything combined...and then theres the low latency... Its actually aged so well particularly with the price lately. The 11900k is low latency and rapid when optimised.
Nah. 10900K can oc ring and memory way higher without latency penalties, no way 11900K can handle this one with tuning, especially 9900K that does sub 35ns. Believe me, overall memory subsystem makes a whole lot of difference. Although it was a weird cpu overall, still glad that it got some deserved attention for its "improvements".
Dude absolutely love these videos so far! You should definitely make a video for 13th or 12th gen with disabled e-cores. It'd be phenomenal content because there's like a couple entry level chips from both 12th gen and 13th gen. It makes sense for a niche scenario; should you get a Ryzen 7600 or an intel 12400? I'll pick 400 fps over 450 fps for having a snappier windows experience.
i have done this on my 13600k and it didnt make a difference in at least dpc latency. What did was disabling hyperthreading with ecores on and my max dpc latency on a year old win 11 instal never got past 200 microseconds. Mind you it is overclocked including the ring frequency, which helps with latency but still
@@Frozoken could you try the same thing with windows 10 instead? By the way I have built a ryzen 7700, 32gb 6000mhz ram, rtx3070 pc for a friend of mine and it's snappy as hell. With the default bios, it took ages to boot but after the bios update, it's gotten incredibly better. I'll have him run the pc for a month or so to make sure no parts are defective, then I'll overclock it, and disable xmp and do manual oc for the ram like 7200 or maybe even 8000mhz after we are sure no parts are defective.
@@fy7589 Sorry man but not until I get another build order for a client where an intel part is better value at the time which is unfortunately quite rare. My 13600k system is my main system and I don't have the time to move to win 10 when I know I'll have to move back anyway seeing im using ecores. What I will say is that my dpc latency figure was given when I just thought id see if there was any improvement with HT off at all so I had some programs open that I had closed when testing with HT on. After testing the same way with HT off its even better, I'm getting around 140µs each time. Also ik the boot time issue ur talking about on ryzen 7000 and besides on select asus boards which is an Asus problem not intel, intel doesn't have that issue. I get about 10 seconds flat of bios time according to task manager and then about another 3-5s until I'm at the lock screen. Did tuning ram really help that issue? My main rig has very tuned ddr5 but didn't really seem to affect boot time besides maybe 10% faster? Well less than what would get the 30-40s of boot time down to a normal 15-25. Punching all the automatic sub timings, manually didn't even seem to really help on a r5 7600 rig I built recently. Regardless my 13600k system is extremely snappy now, there's functionally no hitches especially after installing a software called bloaty nosy where you can fix 90% of the crap that was introduced with Windows 11 such as full context menus and literally essentially all of the telemetry. If ur setting up a pc for a friend who for whatever reason needs to use Windows 11 I couldn't recommend that software more, you can even remove the stupid TPM check (and I've done this) meaning you can use Windows 11 without TPM. It's great. I also do suspect that software is partially responsible for the lower dpc latency but idk, most of the bloat that's removed doesn't even exist on win 10 yet I'm still get 15% less latency than his 10850k on win 10 so it can't just be that. Idk I feel like most of this is just down to ring clock, the 10 cores on 10th gen were already running into core to core latency issues where 10 cores were overwhelming the ring bus and now we have 8 much more demanding cores and an additional 16 ecores around the same ipc as 10th gen on an only slightly higher frequency ring? Connect the dots. Fyi that's actually why 13th gen has so mych l2 cache especially on the ecores because the cores only start going to the ring when they have to access the l3 cache and ofc the more l2 cache there is the less they need to do that. So tldr of ur willing to go through the mind numbing process that is ram overclocking to help these latency issues u can probably mitigate most of it with a ring overclock.
Picked up a Z590 Asrock Steel Legend and 11900k brand new from Newegg for barely over $300 + taxes (free shipping). I replaced my 10900 with overall the 11900k is definitely the faster cpu for the majority of games, especially if they do not take advantage of multiple cores well. Paired with 32gb of dual rank cl14-14-14 DDR 3733 it's great.
Nice! I got my 11900k and Asus XIII Hero for $500 around the 12th gen launch. I also loved having Thunderbolt 4.0 right on board. I got 32gb of b-die also but it’s 4x8gb so overclocking is a little harder than 2x16gb but I’m still able to get 4000 14-14-14-34 with them. B-die makes all the difference. I had a Corsair Dominator kit before that was 3600 cl16 but it was some garbage tier Micron die and wouldn’t overclock past XMP AT ALL. I tried it in a 8th gen build, 9th gen build, and my 11900k but it was trash no matter what. Never buying Corsair ram ever again. Worst $300 I ever spent.
Could it be ddr4 latency is lower so it's more snappier, where as ddr5 does have higher bandwidth but is much higher in terms of latency. Might be a venue worth looking into. I swear mouse input feels a tad better on my old ddr4 systems. I'm thinking of going 14th gen with d4 4000c14 gear 1 1t for next build xD. Thanks for making these videos is definitely an interesting and controversial topic.
@@ericdeltoro8484I'm talking about overall ns, you can check with adia 64. Ddr5 is about 55-80ns. Ddr4 is 35-50ns. We can't use ddr1 mate xD. Speeds do matter also. Although that's not what I'm talking about here.
weird your username is same as that one guy who started me on a journey of binning 10 lga1151 motherboards and 300+gb worth of b-die for the ultimate low latency setup
You should do some test using intel optane as your os drive paired with a 10th or 11th gen cpu. Optane has come down in price but is still spendy. However, the latency and user experience is great (in my experience). I bought a discounted 118GB nvme when it was on sale on newegg and when paired with my 13600K with tuned ddr4 and the desktop feels very snappy. This drive is small, but has enough room for my workstation linux install. I use a larger nvme to dump all my downloads and work files to.
I use an 11700K on an Asus Maximus XIII Hero with Windows 11. No problems whatsoever in daily use and (demanding) games, with a 4070ti. Can see myself using this system for a long while.
One thing I love about Linux: You can re-compile from source to get the most out of your hardware. Most people would be surprised that they could way better snappyness this way.* (It needs some in-depth knowledge, time and CPU power though, it's probably not something to recommend for normies).
I love dual-boot life. I'll compile when I need to. Flatpak is pretty nice. My Win11 boot is just for gaming, used to do that on Linux only for a bit but game launchers can get broken.
@@techyescity Any chance to see a test/benchmark with that ? 12th or 13th gen with E-cores disabled and ring cache multiplier increased. For gaming it's known to be a beast. Edit: ok, finished the video, I see you mentioned you'll probably try with 14th gen. I can't wait!
3:43 I remember having a vacuum like this when they first came out and they weren’t very good. I’m interested to see how they’ve improved since then. Pretty much it had NPC path finding would just pile up all the dirt in one spot and would be really noisy
As a computer user since the 80s with lots of experience in both Windows and Apple, just stay one OS behind. It's so much better. You don't have to be an unwilling beta tester, you don't have to deal with problems. Staying one OS behind keeps you in the sweet spot for computers. I don't know about you but I prefer to work with a mature OS over a new one with god knows what problems.
Is your Virtualization Based Security running in System Information? It is sometimes hard to disable on Windows 11 and causes massive perfomance hit. Also there is a microcode update file called mcupdate*.dll in system folder, renaming it will disable some of the vulnerabilty fixes, but will return some performance back, especially on older CPUs
Thank you for another awesome video. I found two dell Vostro 3902s in the dumpster and took them home. I tested them and they worked fine. I have one problem though. they did not have power supplies and I've been looking everywhere for one with no luck. Do you have any suggestions on any other power supply I can use even if its not a dell one?
makes me so happy i upgraded from 4670k to 7700x. Also I'm happy i've tried using linux desktop and switched to it the last 6 months. literally rejuvenited my faith in electronics. I wish i was not being punished to using nvidia gpu because dell refuses to release freesync firmware for aw3418dw lcd :/
Quiet enjoying my i9 11900K. I've had it for about 8Mo and enjoy it. I moved over from an i9 9900K and It seems to be faster on many levels. Cost me about $600 and it was worth the cost and peace of mind.
interesting findings... Curious though, would the i5 12600k provide better value for creators compared to this? and what midrange GPU would you recommend. thanks?
9:14 - That is why I use the old style right click on windows 11, Its snappy. but as you said no matter how much I fix the latency (removing bloat) there is always those 1 offs delays. This said the new Explorer from KB5030310 seems to be an improvement (although I did remove bloat: home & Gallery from it so unsure if that affects it)
If you want to get really annoyed, run your browser in a window and then right click on the desktop on Windows 11. I've counted up to 23 clicks before the menu eventually decided to pop up, and thats using the registry hack for the original menu.
@@H31MU7 It doesn't always do it, and I suspect it has to do with core parking. If I could tell when it was going to do it I would record it with my phone, but I've been able to get every Windows 11 system I've used regardless of the hardware to do it.
I'm using i9-13950HX in Razer Blade 16 and it applications freeze very often. Thanks for uncovering this! I though I installed drivers incorrectly or something.I wonder if it's possible to figure out if CPU is prone to such problem without paying a lot and finding out the hardway, but rather looking at some archetecture documentarion or something.
Sounds like a windows 11 problem tbh. I have these same issues with w11 on my laptop (with an 8th gen intel i7). I do not have these issues with any other device running w11. W11 is just really buggy with some very certain hardware configurations. Just try w10 or linux and see if it goes away. I highly doubt it is a hardware level issue. Edit: and he argues that previous non e core cpus dont have these issues, so technically my 8th gen cpu should not, but it does. Most of the problems people are experiencing are with w11 on certain devices.
I'm gonna throw a wrench into the review: have you tried different motherboards or BIOSes to see if things change? BIOS revisions can make a huge difference (had this experience first hand recently expecially with AMD parts).
This is definitely not a review. It`s more of a mistic, vague an conspiracy thing. You may have noticed that no real science is used to explain it all. You just have to trust him on his word.
DPC latency at idle is effected by power states, power savings etc. At minimum you want to enable High Performance Power Plan and disable NVIDIA P States (reg key, make sure to restart to apply). my 13700k system has a peak of 24ns from the NVIIDA driver. Average is 1.15ns
I like latency benchmarks a lot. I think many people are interested in them from a gaming/esports perspective also, so it would be great to see some 14900k vs 7800x3D measurements in games for example. The results will likely differ due to the fact video editing performance is based a lot around I/O handling/performance.
I wonder how the amd x3D parts do. Having fewer calls to ram could give a snappier experience, or there could be some hitching because of the time it takes to move the data from ram to cache. No idea how it would do but would be interesting
I had to build a 11900K system when my X99 based CPU kept dying(4 times) and 12th gen wasn't out yet.... still on that 11900K now but now I am thinking about upgrading to a 13900K when they get cheaper if they do.
Something I experienced back in the AMD FX 8000 Series that improved my responsiveness was to disable HPET. You can also disable this feature in modern systems even though it is not an option in the BIOS anymore. Could you maybe have a look into that as well?
this was board dependent from my exp, msi boards sometimes even had the option reversed off was on, on was off.. lol.. for the 1366 chips/x58 hpet had issues under xp, 7 and later have no problem running hpet properly, my exp is that hpet is a good thing on asus boards, msi its hit and miss, board to board, gb its mostly "keep it on" outside a few matx boards, asrock.. well only their top end boards are worth talking about for am3+, and all 3 models i had seemed to show no major dif on or off, on had no deleterious effects at least. its good stuff, honestly x58 held on way better then it had any right to... still able to game in 2023... thats a long long life... heh.. (faster then ryzen 1-2!!!)
I never knew why you could "disable HPET" in BIOS, I'm not sure it even did anything either. HPET in Windows cannot be disabled... It's literally the timer that ping the CPU every 1ms (or 0.5ms depending (long sttory)).
@@griffin1366 actually you can force disable it with a simple command line or editing the bcd file, hpet is now almost always better then legacy timer mode, BUT on rare systems with specific os's its problematic... HPET and XP with x58 for example is a no-go... 7 and up work great but theres some flaws with the drivers xp uses for HPET on x58, can cause some WEIRD behaviors.. on the other hand 7-11 al work great on x58 to this day.. you CAN force disable HPET mode in windows still last i checked though, its more of a trouble shooting feature and always has been. same with bios allowing it to be disabled, sort of like allowing HT to be disabled when it often harmed perf on apps that didnt realize 1/2 those cores were virtual... on os's that had the same issue...
with a 3080, 11700 should allow 90%+ GPU utilization most of the games, I upgraded from 3060Ti to 4070Ti and noticed some games only able to utilize 70%-80% of GPU, decided to upgrade to 11900k, and now 90-99% @2k with every game
I bought this as it was for a steal, along with the godlike mobo. Already have a i9 9900k build which still runs everything like it's nothing. I play cyberpunk with Firefox tab running my tv shows in the background in 4k, I can only imagine that this 11900k might be better still.
the extra hitching in windows 11 is caused by CPU core parking being turned on by default . windows 10 has it off unless on a laptop . this makes the scheduler take more time as it has to reschedule from single thread to multi thread as windows 11 loads non primary cores slower due to Core parking
I would be curious to see you replicate this experiment in Linux -- say a stable distro like Ubuntu -- if you would see latency issues similar to what you're seeing on Windows 10 & 11.
11900K still has a slower ring bus and higher memory latency. Let's not forget it's closer to the max out of the box. Very sure once you get 10900K to almost 5ghz ring and memory at 37ns, 11900K has no chance.
is this a processor-specific thing or is just the architecture that has low latency? i'd like to get one of these at some point but i don't want to pay the premium of course.
I have a Ryzen R7 5700 (Zen 3) laptop and an Intel i9 11800H laptop and the Intel laptop on Win 11, for me, feels a little more zippy and responsive in loading applications and even gaming over the AMD offering. I agree, 11th gen CPUs for desktop had its its critics and issues ….. but for laptops, 11th gen proved an amazing cpu imo.
Hey Tech Yes City! Can you Do a latency Test Against 12400. which does not have e cores. I blv i3 12100 & 12400 have not have latency Palenty. Can you test them plzz?
Thank you Bryan for shining the spotlight on these W11 issues. Win11 here, sometimes I right click and create a new folder and it sits there for like 15 seconds... wtf I actually hate Win10 also sadly.. was hoping 11 was better. I would take Win7 back in a heartbeat if it got updates and new tech. Sigh.. so much for a refined product
hey guys, i searched a bit on google but can't find anything relevant, i have some weird lag even freeze when i get my computer out of sleep, it require like 10 or 12 seconds to come back to normal, not the end of the world but when you throw all that money you expect it to be fast and responsive, what is happening? do someone knows? (windows 11 up to date) many thanks to any input
Remember, when ever running these systems. The last install before you test anything is the chipset drivers. These can make or break a test. Another reason I run primocache.
@@ryanbrowning5586 I’m having an issue getting mine to post. I get nothing except a little fan movement and a flash of light on my aio when I hit the power button. I’ve tried just about everything including using a USB to flashback the bios. Still Nada!
@@ryanbrowning5586 I also can see the led screen on the motherboard saying searching USB drive when I push the flash bios button, so I hope the motherboard is ok. Also, the power and reset led light up as well. I’ve ordered 4 different USB 2.0 drives that will arrive on Monday. Hopefully one of them will work. I have tried the 5 that I own and none of them will flash for more than 20 seconds.
- Hello, you can do a test with the Bios setting Uncore (Ring Bus) activated or deactivated, if it has an impact on the latency in the system. - As far as I know this setting is enabled in Bios by default and reduces Ring Bus speed by two times. - Setting in Bios is available on all Intel 10/11/12/13 Gen processors.
I have an 11900k on an AQUA Z490 board. Runs great, although only complaint is it seems to run hot even with watercooling. I've stopped overclocking it as I found my temps would shoot up under heavy loads caausing my fans to sound like my PC was taking off. Keep in mind this is a watercooled system with 3x 360mm radiators.... My next PC may be an AMD for power efficiency, but looks like I'll need to check latency as these numbers show the top of the line AMD can be laggy as well. Need a balance of performance, low power usage (relative) and snappy response. Hoping next gen Intel on an Z890 board or AMD 8xxxx CPU meets all three!
4:29 I had the same feeling about my Ryzen 5 3500x. But I was comparing the latency of start menu bring up without any camera. The comparission points were the exact same system under windows 11(with all drivers installed) and opensuse tumbleweed KDE. And I kept seeing it all the time, until I bought a 165hz monitor and it somehow completely went away there was 0 visual difference, before that it felt like it would take +1-3 extra frames before the start menu would start bringing itself up. And some of the core applications(like file manager) start up felt instant. Was using an Radeon RX 6400 card. I'm not sure if it wasn't just a jump from 60hz to 165hz. I only run with typical tweaks on Linux: 1. Use KDE wayland(wayland is meant to replace X11 in the near future, on old intel integrated gpus(core i3 6000u) it makes animations a lot smoother). 2. Swap the "no ioscheduler"(basically re-orders the applications read/write requests for reading/writting file data, the 'none' option is a new addition and only exists because nvme drives can do scheduling via NCQ) to once a default "bfq" option(it really noticeably reduces the occurance of random worst case stutters). 3. Setting the `amd_pstate` cpu frequency scalling driver option to "active" and making sure it's set to the balance_power(saving) preset. 4. Decrease animation speed so that it looks "neat". I've still used the default "force smoothest animations" option and not the "force lowest latency option". 5. During the installation process I made sure to use the mature/stable ext4 file system instead of BTRFS. Ubuntu and many others use ext4 by default. I also was measuring with a stop watch the difference between Hot and Cold application launch times. Most of the apps would launch a bit later under Windows 11. The other main difference was that the "hot" and "cold" times in Windows 11 were a whole lot closer to each other. Where I could see around 50% improvement in boot time of a program under Linux, it wouldn't be anything close to that under windows. It was much closer to around 10-20%(I had the exact numbers around 1 year ago).
I have Windows 10 on my lappy primarily because 11 is not supported on it. My gaming tower works perfectly fine on Windows 11, but even though I have an older Ryzen 3600 my mobo can support the fastest Ryzen AM4 CPUs. So perhaps the motherboards are somehow limiting 11. So maybe the experience really will vary from one user to the next. Of course with so many motherboard and CPU combos out there you cannot test them all.
heck im still running the i9 9900k with a 3080 evga ftw3.seems to work great harldly see cpu go above 51 percent usage just stock settings for gaming anyways
This is wierd! My oc'd 13900k with ddr5 got an avg of 1.37 and a max of 39.30 dpc latancy after 5 min of idle with Win11 (21H2) with no os optimization.
The blow up of OOB tech tubers testing chips for review windows has really led to tribalism, and people really not testing thing for themselves. The end goal for the consumer is now looking at the big bar charts. Not to say they are invalid tests, just that it's not the whole picture, and chips can all be tuned and prodded. Something that can't be dialed in and expanded on in the review window. I've kinda abandoned the stock techtubers as they don't give me the answers I want, and I believe that a lot of people watching don't seem to know what they want either. If gamers gave a shit, they'd look at maximising performance, and no one covers latency that well.
A strange idea , is the internet speed of windows 11 lower than windows 10, i have removed iobit and it is day and night, is that difference also in windows 10 and 11 ??
@@michal89chz Weird, I've been using mine for quite a while with MCE enabled and it's doing just fine. Your setup is overkill and clearly has an issue if it can't handle an 11900k, let alone a delidded one.
just got a 11900k with $260, can't say it's a steal, but definitely an upgrade from 11700F with my 4070Ti without buying a new motherboard with a new CPU
If you can get the 11900k cheap enough it’ll run great with your 3060ti. I had that setup as my daily for a while and just upgraded my gpu to a 4070 super. In all honesty, I may just return it and get 3060ti again. Not really a huge jump in my opinion.
could this be a problem with e-cores? maybe windows is just using the crappy e cores when nothing is happening causing this buggy behaviour and higher latency. u could try test this with an i5 12400 or something, see if that still has issues
Windows 11 is *mostly* fine, but little issues pop up that are annoying despite trying to debloat the OS. Only run it on my 4700U based laptop and Win 10 is for my main pc's.
There's also virtualization technology and other crap like that in the bios that I'm not sure what to make of. I would love to see some testing on all these settings.
@@LastExile1989 Some people say it's useful for emulators, I don't know if that's actually true or not. But there's other stuff in the bios as well like Isochronus Support, I have no idea what that is, and whether all these things bloat the CPU.
Hey guys, thanks for watching the content, sorry it's been slow, I have had to relocate back to Australia. Though some aussie content coming soon!
You guya should do a video with Optane SSDs, to see if its low storage latency has any effect on this system latency stuff. Some enterprise Optane PCIe drives can be had for like 200 euros for 500GB.
looking forward to it, mate
and hope everything goes smoothly
Both the Eufy robot Vac links are broken for me. Australia-chrome-win10
Doesn't the memory latency have something to do with the snappy system experience?
Changing the CPU also means changing the motherboard and the sub timings of it. Each IMC + Motherboard will have a different timing configurations.
If you wanna test and eliminate that factor you gotta try the same memory kit heavily tuned to the best possible on each CPU memory controller or just use some expectation formula that buldzoid have made for us for each kind of memory kit with IMC limitations for easy overclocking. That would show the truth behind whether it was memory configuration or just the IO being away from the CPU in 12th gen Intel. It will be really interesting.
I get some things you've mentioned about 11 driving you crazy at times. I early adopted it way back and had even switched to 10 and then Linux for a bit before I came back (does seem to work nice Tiny11 12700KF). Also use CTT's utility to get the right click menu back. As I use both, Am not really sure if the latency on file transfers between older machines are any different since most of my NAS and file transfer is done on the Linux side. Anyway, Kudos for taking time out to inform us about this series and do testing.
I recently went from a 3950x to the 11900k found that my experience navigating windows became noticeably smoother. It got a lot of hate when it came out but if you can get em cheap id say its worth it
I picked up a new i7 11700KF for a discounted price of about 6700 THB (180 USD) in Thailand in October 2022, was that a good deal? I also found a very nice MSI Z590 Gaming Plus motherboard for 4300 THB (116 USD), both for about the same price as a i5 12400F and B660 motherboard at that time... my son first wanted a gen12 i5, but then I saw the gen11 i7 for around the same price..... it received a lot of bad reviews, though, but is still pretty decent I think, doesn't even run all that hot with a 360mm AIO and UV + OC
Yeah sadly both the 10900K and 11900K are insanely expensive. You can buy a 5950X for the same price which just makes them not worth it at all.
@@CitarNosis317 the 11900kf you can get for like 200 bucks and performs on par with a 12700kf at 1440p. Anything up to an RTX 4080 should be fine. 10th gen is overpriced trash at this point
I had a 11900K and had a lot of issues overheating the CPU and then changed to a 5900X and that was the best thing I did. Now I can work in peace.
I recently upgraded from a 7700k to an 11900k and can definitely understand what you mean!! I got mine for $150 and it's very well worth the upgrade.
I built the "total waste of sand" rig: 11900K AND a 4060TI 16Gb....I love it......o.k. haters...have at it.
I too have a powerful contender for sand wasting: 11900k and a RTX 2080 Super I've bought right after a dip from the mining prices.
@@MiguelCorreiaDaCunha Nice.
I got a 11700k at the time really cheap and a great board reduced as well. Runs like a dream.
I always enjoy watching these kinds of videos just to stay informed even though all my current PCs are on AM4 for ease of maintenance and interchangeability.
Makes things easier to solve when there are 10 computers in the house and I only need a spare kit of DDR4, a G SKU, and a cheap B450 on hand as backups for troubleshooting. Even though I have several extra am4 chips, and 2 trays of spare DDR4 at this point.
I may pickup some newer secondhand intel stuff to mess around with in my homelab which currently is a dozen 6th gen i7 T SKUs in Lenovo M900 Tiny’s.
Keep up the good work as a creator Bryan! These research rabbit holes are great.
Testing the i9 9900k next? I know how many people still are using that cpu with great results in 2023. Would love to see the tests for it
9900k is ringbus and as such should be very snappy. It's still a great CPU and I wouldn't really change it if you don't do heavy multitasking or need the newer technologies that the new platforms provide.
@@bgtubber I had my 9900K from 2018 to around February of this year. I was still pretty happy with it, but I couldn't turn down the 12900K deal that Microcenter had for the CPU and an Asus Z690 motherboard for $420. I ended up selling my awesome Asus Strix Z380 E-Gaming motherboard, my old 240mm AIO, 32GB of DDR4-3600 RAM and the 9900K to my brother for $350. He absolutely loves it. He went from an i7-7700 to the 9900K. It was a win-win for both of us.
@@Gamevet $420? Now that's really NICE🤣🤣
@@baoquoc3710 What's with the emojis?
@@baoquoc3710 Ah! 420!
I might of had a little bit of 420 before reading that.
Top video man! Appreciated :)
THE 11900K WAS LOVED! THANK YOU, THANK YOU, ARIGATO YESMAN-SENSEI! 😊...waiting for your personal take on Windows Settings for input latency!
Hey, nice Video. Can you do more Videos about System Input Lag? Would love to see someone testing certain Windows Optimization Tweaks tested for Input Latency. No one really did that...
This is a really good series Brian. Could you test single CCD ryzens like the 7700x or 7800x3d? I'd think that those cpus should be close to 10th/11th since they don't need special schedulers.
i overclocked my 6600k to 4.5ghz and i noticed a big increase in snappyness, i know its slow compared to newer systems but i am still stoked about it 😅
I had my 8700k up to 5.0ghz, it’s amazing what an OC can do if your cooling can handle it. I had to delid and apply new paste under the IHS to break 4.3 on mine with air cooling though.
ya tbh when i do a cinebench run it reaches tjmax but i dont do anything demanding it idles at like 28c and spikes around 80 once in a blue moon so w.e. lol
@@Adamismmyname007 My old i7 2600k could do 4.5 GHz
@@grlmgor thats awesome! i think my cooler is just not very good lol
@@Adamismmyname007 fair enough i could get my 2600k to 4.8Ghz but would draw a tone of power and run super hot.
9:14 THANK YOU. I'm not crazy, I'm not alone on this. I went back from windows 11 to windows 10 exactly for that reason.
I simply love this channel!🎉
I didn't catch this until just now, the algorithm never recommended me this video and I wound up having to look through your channel's posts to find it after getting recommended your old video again. I'm so glad you tested the 11th gen and confirmed my suspicions. Now I can rest easy knowing I made a good choice cornering the market on all those 11th gen CPUs no one wanted. :) My Intention is to use Windows 10 for a very long time, probably past the consumer EOL. So I wanted to bake in PCI-E 4.0 and AVX512 support on a monolithic die... the latter of which may turn out to be important since Alder Lake and Raptor Lake ripped it out, which was something I didn't even anticipate happening when I got this machine. Sure, the top model has two cores fewer than 10th gen, but the 11700K and the 10700K are pretty much directly comparable (I bought the 11700K at a discount, not the top 11900K anyway), plus it's not like Intel had yet standardized on 10 cores at that time anyway... I was upgrading from 4 cores/8 threads, so 8 cores was fine for me.
Latency is a great topic. I'm glad you're covering it. The problem with the 11900k is that it should've been on an i7 and intel shouldn't have had an i9 for 11th gen.
I run an 11900k with a 360 AIO in overclock and keeping on that load line, it is like lightning and only really peaks 300watts under all core load (5.4ghz). In terms of games paired with PCIE gen4, it really is a formidable chip for gaming in fact probably one of the best when you factor everything combined...and then theres the low latency... Its actually aged so well particularly with the price lately. The 11900k is low latency and rapid when optimised.
Are we discovering even more snappy than the snappiest CPU?
Nah. 10900K can oc ring and memory way higher without latency penalties, no way 11900K can handle this one with tuning, especially 9900K that does sub 35ns. Believe me, overall memory subsystem makes a whole lot of difference. Although it was a weird cpu overall, still glad that it got some deserved attention for its "improvements".
12600 non k ?? Fastest non e-core chip.
@@sezwo5774 not sure how it'll do. But I guess you have seen their memory latency even with ddr4...
@@sezwo5774i'm pretty sure the i/o chip is off for these variants aswell.
@@HeartOfAdelwhat's the fastest ddr4 can hit and boot generally
Just seen you on ices stream. You a cool dood here's my sub.
Cx
Dude absolutely love these videos so far! You should definitely make a video for 13th or 12th gen with disabled e-cores. It'd be phenomenal content because there's like a couple entry level chips from both 12th gen and 13th gen. It makes sense for a niche scenario; should you get a Ryzen 7600 or an intel 12400? I'll pick 400 fps over 450 fps for having a snappier windows experience.
yeh i got the special 12900k with avx 512, still on it. more test with different bios and e cores off.
i have done this on my 13600k and it didnt make a difference in at least dpc latency. What did was disabling hyperthreading with ecores on and my max dpc latency on a year old win 11 instal never got past 200 microseconds. Mind you it is overclocked including the ring frequency, which helps with latency but still
@@Frozoken could you try the same thing with windows 10 instead? By the way I have built a ryzen 7700, 32gb 6000mhz ram, rtx3070 pc for a friend of mine and it's snappy as hell. With the default bios, it took ages to boot but after the bios update, it's gotten incredibly better. I'll have him run the pc for a month or so to make sure no parts are defective, then I'll overclock it, and disable xmp and do manual oc for the ram like 7200 or maybe even 8000mhz after we are sure no parts are defective.
@@fy7589 Sorry man but not until I get another build order for a client where an intel part is better value at the time which is unfortunately quite rare. My 13600k system is my main system and I don't have the time to move to win 10 when I know I'll have to move back anyway seeing im using ecores. What I will say is that my dpc latency figure was given when I just thought id see if there was any improvement with HT off at all so I had some programs open that I had closed when testing with HT on. After testing the same way with HT off its even better, I'm getting around 140µs each time.
Also ik the boot time issue ur talking about on ryzen 7000 and besides on select asus boards which is an Asus problem not intel, intel doesn't have that issue. I get about 10 seconds flat of bios time according to task manager and then about another 3-5s until I'm at the lock screen. Did tuning ram really help that issue? My main rig has very tuned ddr5 but didn't really seem to affect boot time besides maybe 10% faster? Well less than what would get the 30-40s of boot time down to a normal 15-25. Punching all the automatic sub timings, manually didn't even seem to really help on a r5 7600 rig I built recently.
Regardless my 13600k system is extremely snappy now, there's functionally no hitches especially after installing a software called bloaty nosy where you can fix 90% of the crap that was introduced with Windows 11 such as full context menus and literally essentially all of the telemetry. If ur setting up a pc for a friend who for whatever reason needs to use Windows 11 I couldn't recommend that software more, you can even remove the stupid TPM check (and I've done this) meaning you can use Windows 11 without TPM. It's great. I also do suspect that software is partially responsible for the lower dpc latency but idk, most of the bloat that's removed doesn't even exist on win 10 yet I'm still get 15% less latency than his 10850k on win 10 so it can't just be that. Idk I feel like most of this is just down to ring clock, the 10 cores on 10th gen were already running into core to core latency issues where 10 cores were overwhelming the ring bus and now we have 8 much more demanding cores and an additional 16 ecores around the same ipc as 10th gen on an only slightly higher frequency ring? Connect the dots. Fyi that's actually why 13th gen has so mych l2 cache especially on the ecores because the cores only start going to the ring when they have to access the l3 cache and ofc the more l2 cache there is the less they need to do that.
So tldr of ur willing to go through the mind numbing process that is ram overclocking to help these latency issues u can probably mitigate most of it with a ring overclock.
Great findings Bryan. I’ve yet to upgrade to Win11 for all those reasons.
Picked up a Z590 Asrock Steel Legend and 11900k brand new from Newegg for barely over $300 + taxes (free shipping). I replaced my 10900 with overall the 11900k is definitely the faster cpu for the majority of games, especially if they do not take advantage of multiple cores well. Paired with 32gb of dual rank cl14-14-14 DDR 3733 it's great.
Nice! I got my 11900k and Asus XIII Hero for $500 around the 12th gen launch. I also loved having Thunderbolt 4.0 right on board. I got 32gb of b-die also but it’s 4x8gb so overclocking is a little harder than 2x16gb but I’m still able to get 4000 14-14-14-34 with them. B-die makes all the difference. I had a Corsair Dominator kit before that was 3600 cl16 but it was some garbage tier Micron die and wouldn’t overclock past XMP AT ALL. I tried it in a 8th gen build, 9th gen build, and my 11900k but it was trash no matter what. Never buying Corsair ram ever again. Worst $300 I ever spent.
Interesting to see 11th gen test. I just upgraded to 11900 non-k and im running win11
Would love to see Ryzen 7s, 12100, 12400, and any other 12 or 13th gen with E-cores.
Thank you, really good.
I almost got one back in the day because of its AVX512 implementation
Could it be ddr4 latency is lower so it's more snappier, where as ddr5 does have higher bandwidth but is much higher in terms of latency. Might be a venue worth looking into. I swear mouse input feels a tad better on my old ddr4 systems. I'm thinking of going 14th gen with d4 4000c14 gear 1 1t for next build xD. Thanks for making these videos is definitely an interesting and controversial topic.
I think it was tested with DDR4 too?
If that's your argument, DDR1 is even snappier because you could get kits as low as CL2.
@@ericdeltoro8484I'm talking about overall ns, you can check with adia 64. Ddr5 is about 55-80ns. Ddr4 is 35-50ns. We can't use ddr1 mate xD. Speeds do matter also. Although that's not what I'm talking about here.
Curious too, I only own a 12700KF with DDR5. If DDR4 is snappier, would be willing to build one of those, reuse my old ram on a cheap board.
weird your username is same as that one guy who started me on a journey of binning 10 lga1151 motherboards and 300+gb worth of b-die for the ultimate low latency setup
I refuse to let my 10900k go. I am just not interested in this new stuff.
You should do some test using intel optane as your os drive paired with a 10th or 11th gen cpu. Optane has come down in price but is still spendy. However, the latency and user experience is great (in my experience). I bought a discounted 118GB nvme when it was on sale on newegg and when paired with my 13600K with tuned ddr4 and the desktop feels very snappy. This drive is small, but has enough room for my workstation linux install. I use a larger nvme to dump all my downloads and work files to.
fist time commenting love the video because i personally run the i9-11900k and rtx 3080 daily! been watching for a while love the videos!
how do you like the combo i have a 3080 with the i5-11400f but im buying a 11900k from someone for 100 today? do you like it and what's your cooling?
I use an 11700K on an Asus Maximus XIII Hero with Windows 11. No problems whatsoever in daily use and (demanding) games, with a 4070ti. Can see myself using this system for a long while.
I have the same motherboard with an 11900 and a 3060. I also see myself having this rig for quite some time.
Looking forward to the latency settings vid
One thing I love about Linux: You can re-compile from source to get the most out of your hardware. Most people would be surprised that they could way better snappyness this way.* (It needs some in-depth knowledge, time and CPU power though, it's probably not something to recommend for normies).
Welcome, fellow gentoo enjoyer.
This does almost nothing on modern systems lmao. The time it takes to compile and the effort is absolutely not worth it 99% of the time.
I love dual-boot life. I'll compile when I need to. Flatpak is pretty nice. My Win11 boot is just for gaming, used to do that on Linux only for a bit but game launchers can get broken.
2:31 If elements of Ringbus still exist in 12th/13th gen, does the snappy improve by disabling Ecores?
Windows 10 with e cores disabled is probably the only way to go atm, just my experience.
@@techyescity Any chance to see a test/benchmark with that ? 12th or 13th gen with E-cores disabled and ring cache multiplier increased. For gaming it's known to be a beast. Edit: ok, finished the video, I see you mentioned you'll probably try with 14th gen. I can't wait!
@@techyescity should i buy the 10900k or 11900k? :O
3:43 I remember having a vacuum like this when they first came out and they weren’t very good. I’m interested to see how they’ve improved since then. Pretty much it had NPC path finding would just pile up all the dirt in one spot and would be really noisy
As a computer user since the 80s with lots of experience in both Windows and Apple, just stay one OS behind. It's so much better. You don't have to be an unwilling beta tester, you don't have to deal with problems. Staying one OS behind keeps you in the sweet spot for computers. I don't know about you but I prefer to work with a mature OS over a new one with god knows what problems.
Or alternatively, move to Linux and everything is always snappy.
Is your Virtualization Based Security running in System Information? It is sometimes hard to disable on Windows 11 and causes massive perfomance hit. Also there is a microcode update file called mcupdate*.dll in system folder, renaming it will disable some of the vulnerabilty fixes, but will return some performance back, especially on older CPUs
Thank you for another awesome video. I found two dell Vostro 3902s in the dumpster and took them home. I tested them and they worked fine. I have one problem though. they did not have power supplies and I've been looking everywhere for one with no luck. Do you have any suggestions on any other power supply I can use even if its not a dell one?
makes me so happy i upgraded from 4670k to 7700x. Also I'm happy i've tried using linux desktop and switched to it the last 6 months. literally rejuvenited my faith in electronics. I wish i was not being punished to using nvidia gpu because dell refuses to release freesync firmware for aw3418dw lcd :/
Quiet enjoying my i9 11900K. I've had it for about 8Mo and enjoy it. I moved over from an i9 9900K and It seems to be faster on many levels. Cost me about $600 and it was worth the cost and peace of mind.
Can you also cover the increased latency from Dramless/HMB NVME drives?
interesting findings... Curious though, would the i5 12600k provide better value for creators compared to this? and what midrange GPU would you recommend. thanks?
9:14 - That is why I use the old style right click on windows 11, Its snappy. but as you said no matter how much I fix the latency (removing bloat) there is always those 1 offs delays. This said the new Explorer from KB5030310 seems to be an improvement (although I did remove bloat: home & Gallery from it so unsure if that affects it)
If you want to get really annoyed, run your browser in a window and then right click on the desktop on Windows 11. I've counted up to 23 clicks before the menu eventually decided to pop up, and thats using the registry hack for the original menu.
@@arc00ta just tried that, it took .25 sec
@@H31MU7 It doesn't always do it, and I suspect it has to do with core parking. If I could tell when it was going to do it I would record it with my phone, but I've been able to get every Windows 11 system I've used regardless of the hardware to do it.
i get it right away? @@arc00ta
I'm using i9-13950HX in Razer Blade 16 and it applications freeze very often. Thanks for uncovering this! I though I installed drivers incorrectly or something.I wonder if it's possible to figure out if CPU is prone to such problem without paying a lot and finding out the hardway, but rather looking at some archetecture documentarion or something.
Sounds like a windows 11 problem tbh. I have these same issues with w11 on my laptop (with an 8th gen intel i7). I do not have these issues with any other device running w11. W11 is just really buggy with some very certain hardware configurations. Just try w10 or linux and see if it goes away. I highly doubt it is a hardware level issue.
Edit: and he argues that previous non e core cpus dont have these issues, so technically my 8th gen cpu should not, but it does. Most of the problems people are experiencing are with w11 on certain devices.
I’m rocking i3 12100f still
get a 13600k 🔥
Not worth it
12100 still going strong
Watching you live at this very moment on Ice Poseidon's stream.
Got my 11600K at 200$ and I'm still very happy with it. Even does 5Ghz all core boost and those 220w max at 1.43v are definitely doable by an AIO.
Recently went from ddr4 cl18 at 3600 to cl14 bdie. Wow what a difference.
32 gig for 130.00 us.
great vid Bryan I love this stuff :-) You deserve that pizza
I used to have an 11700K, I only remember it being very hot.
Hey Brian, can you test an X3D cpu with those same tests, curious how the extra memory will affect these latencies.
I'm gonna throw a wrench into the review: have you tried different motherboards or BIOSes to see if things change? BIOS revisions can make a huge difference (had this experience first hand recently expecially with AMD parts).
This is definitely not a review.
It`s more of a mistic, vague an conspiracy thing.
You may have noticed that no real science is used to explain it all.
You just have to trust him on his word.
DPC latency at idle is effected by power states, power savings etc. At minimum you want to enable High Performance Power Plan and disable NVIDIA P States (reg key, make sure to restart to apply).
my 13700k system has a peak of 24ns from the NVIIDA driver. Average is 1.15ns
I like latency benchmarks a lot. I think many people are interested in them from a gaming/esports perspective also, so it would be great to see some 14900k vs 7800x3D measurements in games for example. The results will likely differ due to the fact video editing performance is based a lot around I/O handling/performance.
I wonder how the amd x3D parts do. Having fewer calls to ram could give a snappier experience, or there could be some hitching because of the time it takes to move the data from ram to cache. No idea how it would do but would be interesting
At least in terms of music production they perform better than their non-X3D counterparts when a small ASIO buffer with low latency is used.
This is the CPU that I roll these days. I really like AVX512 for emulation and I think the 11900k is an overclocking badass!
i got it and the special 12900k for the avx 512 still in there, havent tried it yet.
I had to build a 11900K system when my X99 based CPU kept dying(4 times) and 12th gen wasn't out yet.... still on that 11900K now but now I am thinking about upgrading to a 13900K when they get cheaper if they do.
It would be interesting to see how the latest Macs with the M2/M3 processor compare in latency.
Something I experienced back in the AMD FX 8000 Series that improved my responsiveness was to disable HPET. You can also disable this feature in modern systems even though it is not an option in the BIOS anymore.
Could you maybe have a look into that as well?
this was board dependent from my exp, msi boards sometimes even had the option reversed off was on, on was off.. lol..
for the 1366 chips/x58 hpet had issues under xp, 7 and later have no problem running hpet properly, my exp is that hpet is a good thing on asus boards, msi its hit and miss, board to board, gb its mostly "keep it on" outside a few matx boards, asrock.. well only their top end boards are worth talking about for am3+, and all 3 models i had seemed to show no major dif on or off, on had no deleterious effects at least.
its good stuff, honestly x58 held on way better then it had any right to... still able to game in 2023... thats a long long life... heh.. (faster then ryzen 1-2!!!)
I never knew why you could "disable HPET" in BIOS, I'm not sure it even did anything either. HPET in Windows cannot be disabled... It's literally the timer that ping the CPU every 1ms (or 0.5ms depending (long sttory)).
@@griffin1366 actually you can force disable it with a simple command line or editing the bcd file, hpet is now almost always better then legacy timer mode, BUT on rare systems with specific os's its problematic...
HPET and XP with x58 for example is a no-go... 7 and up work great but theres some flaws with the drivers xp uses for HPET on x58, can cause some WEIRD behaviors..
on the other hand 7-11 al work great on x58 to this day..
you CAN force disable HPET mode in windows still last i checked though, its more of a trouble shooting feature and always has been.
same with bios allowing it to be disabled, sort of like allowing HT to be disabled when it often harmed perf on apps that didnt realize 1/2 those cores were virtual... on os's that had the same issue...
I have got a 11700 non k on a 8 liter case plus 3080 i plan on keeping this system for at least another 2 years :)
with a 3080, 11700 should allow 90%+ GPU utilization most of the games, I upgraded from 3060Ti to 4070Ti and noticed some games only able to utilize 70%-80% of GPU, decided to upgrade to 11900k, and now 90-99% @2k with every game
I bought this as it was for a steal, along with the godlike mobo. Already have a i9 9900k build which still runs everything like it's nothing. I play cyberpunk with Firefox tab running my tv shows in the background in 4k, I can only imagine that this 11900k might be better still.
the extra hitching in windows 11 is caused by CPU core parking being turned on by default . windows 10 has it off unless on a laptop . this makes the scheduler take more time as it has to reschedule from single thread to multi thread as windows 11 loads non primary cores slower due to Core parking
Strange you mention that cause on windows 10 I don’t have this issues with parking cause for me it improves performance, it’s a weird 12th gen gimmic
Core parking can boost a 1 or 2 thread tasks, coz it is making the remaining cores truly idle.
I would be curious to see you replicate this experiment in Linux -- say a stable distro like Ubuntu -- if you would see latency issues similar to what you're seeing on Windows 10 & 11.
11900K still has a slower ring bus and higher memory latency. Let's not forget it's closer to the max out of the box. Very sure once you get 10900K to almost 5ghz ring and memory at 37ns, 11900K has no chance.
How would AM4 look, CPU-s like the 5800X3D and the 5950X?
Nice and snappy!
is this a processor-specific thing or is just the architecture that has low latency? i'd like to get one of these at some point but i don't want to pay the premium of course.
I have a Ryzen R7 5700 (Zen 3) laptop and an Intel i9 11800H laptop and the Intel laptop on Win 11, for me, feels a little more zippy and responsive in loading applications and even gaming over the AMD offering. I agree, 11th gen CPUs for desktop had its its critics and issues ….. but for laptops, 11th gen proved an amazing cpu imo.
Hey Tech Yes City! Can you Do a latency Test Against 12400. which does not have e cores. I blv i3 12100 & 12400 have not have latency Palenty. Can you test them plzz?
Thank you Bryan for shining the spotlight on these W11 issues. Win11 here, sometimes I right click and create a new folder and it sits there for like 15 seconds... wtf I actually hate Win10 also sadly.. was hoping 11 was better. I would take Win7 back in a heartbeat if it got updates and new tech. Sigh.. so much for a refined product
Your drives set to power down in the power options?
@@J_..._ nope, never. I disable PM immediatey on PC but good suggetion!
This is hardly related to the topic of this video. More likely some ill behaved 3rd party context menu shell extensions
hardly related? that guy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣@@J_..._
Probably my next CPU upgrade. I also have a 10700k/z470
hey guys, i searched a bit on google but can't find anything relevant, i have some weird lag even freeze when i get my computer out of sleep, it require like 10 or 12 seconds to come back to normal, not the end of the world but when you throw all that money you expect it to be fast and responsive, what is happening? do someone knows? (windows 11 up to date) many thanks to any input
Remember, when ever running these systems. The last install before you test anything is the chipset drivers.
These can make or break a test.
Another reason I run primocache.
I decided to pick up a Msi Z590 Godlike motherboard for my 11900k. I think the 11900k needs more VRM and more power!!
I got the exact same setup with corsair ram. Been using it a while and it's still pretty damn fast with the godlike pushing it.
@@ryanbrowning5586 I’m having an issue getting mine to post. I get nothing except a little fan movement and a flash of light on my aio when I hit the power button. I’ve tried just about everything including using a USB to flashback the bios. Still Nada!
@adamford4167 power source? If it was the MB it wouldn't do anything at all.
@@ryanbrowning5586 I also can see the led screen on the motherboard saying searching USB drive when I push the flash bios button, so I hope the motherboard is ok. Also, the power and reset led light up as well. I’ve ordered 4 different USB 2.0 drives that will arrive on Monday. Hopefully one of them will work. I have tried the 5 that I own and none of them will flash for more than 20 seconds.
@adamford4167 well let me know cause that's freaking weird. Possibly the boars but doubt it. Where did you get the board?
- Hello, you can do a test with the Bios setting Uncore (Ring Bus) activated or deactivated, if it has an impact on the latency in the system.
- As far as I know this setting is enabled in Bios by default and reduces Ring Bus speed by two times.
- Setting in Bios is available on all Intel 10/11/12/13 Gen processors.
Are you talking about ring down bin? It is enabled automatically everywhere. But 11900K's ring does not have much headroom in it.
@@HeartOfAdel YES
I've been waiting for someone to do this video I have a i-511 gen and I want to know is it worth upgrading to a I-9 11th gen
Does disabling E cores fix the latency issues with 13th gen?
I have an 11900k on an AQUA Z490 board. Runs great, although only complaint is it seems to run hot even with watercooling. I've stopped overclocking it as I found my temps would shoot up under heavy loads caausing my fans to sound like my PC was taking off. Keep in mind this is a watercooled system with 3x 360mm radiators.... My next PC may be an AMD for power efficiency, but looks like I'll need to check latency as these numbers show the top of the line AMD can be laggy as well. Need a balance of performance, low power usage (relative) and snappy response. Hoping next gen Intel on an Z890 board or AMD 8xxxx CPU meets all three!
Am interested now.
As a computer security expert I would recommend that you don’t turn off the security features in the bios.
Luv the mustang 💙
Next 7800x3d and 7700 for this snapping test. Surely this gonna be the snappiest amd part.
I think we need to wait till Microsoft release Windows 11 LTSC. BTW, did you also get a hold of the Windows 10 LTSC 2021 version for testing?
Just got the 11900K two days ago :). Still, if you don't overclock, you an get a 11900F for much lower price with basically the same performance.
4:29 I had the same feeling about my Ryzen 5 3500x.
But I was comparing the latency of start menu bring up without any camera.
The comparission points were the exact same system under windows 11(with all drivers installed) and opensuse tumbleweed KDE.
And I kept seeing it all the time, until I bought a 165hz monitor and it somehow completely went away there was 0 visual difference, before that it felt like it would take +1-3 extra frames before the start menu would start bringing itself up.
And some of the core applications(like file manager) start up felt instant.
Was using an Radeon RX 6400 card.
I'm not sure if it wasn't just a jump from 60hz to 165hz.
I only run with typical tweaks on Linux:
1. Use KDE wayland(wayland is meant to replace X11 in the near future, on old intel integrated gpus(core i3 6000u) it makes animations a lot smoother).
2. Swap the "no ioscheduler"(basically re-orders the applications read/write requests for reading/writting file data, the 'none' option is a new addition and only exists because nvme drives can do scheduling via NCQ) to once a default "bfq" option(it really noticeably reduces the occurance of random worst case stutters).
3. Setting the `amd_pstate` cpu frequency scalling driver option to "active" and making sure it's set to the balance_power(saving) preset.
4. Decrease animation speed so that it looks "neat". I've still used the default "force smoothest animations" option and not the "force lowest latency option".
5. During the installation process I made sure to use the mature/stable ext4 file system instead of BTRFS. Ubuntu and many others use ext4 by default.
I also was measuring with a stop watch the difference between Hot and Cold application launch times.
Most of the apps would launch a bit later under Windows 11.
The other main difference was that the "hot" and "cold" times in Windows 11 were a whole lot closer to each other.
Where I could see around 50% improvement in boot time of a program under Linux, it wouldn't be anything close to that under windows.
It was much closer to around 10-20%(I had the exact numbers around 1 year ago).
I have Windows 10 on my lappy primarily because 11 is not supported on it. My gaming tower works perfectly fine on Windows 11, but even though I have an older Ryzen 3600 my mobo can support the fastest Ryzen AM4 CPUs. So perhaps the motherboards are somehow limiting 11. So maybe the experience really will vary from one user to the next. Of course with so many motherboard and CPU combos out there you cannot test them all.
heck im still running the i9 9900k with a 3080 evga ftw3.seems to work great harldly see cpu go above 51 percent usage just stock settings for gaming anyways
This is wierd! My oc'd 13900k with ddr5 got an avg of 1.37 and a max of 39.30 dpc latancy after 5 min of idle with Win11 (21H2) with no os optimization.
good job.
The blow up of OOB tech tubers testing chips for review windows has really led to tribalism, and people really not testing thing for themselves. The end goal for the consumer is now looking at the big bar charts. Not to say they are invalid tests, just that it's not the whole picture, and chips can all be tuned and prodded. Something that can't be dialed in and expanded on in the review window.
I've kinda abandoned the stock techtubers as they don't give me the answers I want, and I believe that a lot of people watching don't seem to know what they want either. If gamers gave a shit, they'd look at maximising performance, and no one covers latency that well.
This.
maybe another video about debloating and optimization for windows to remove latency
A strange idea , is the internet speed of windows 11 lower than windows 10, i have removed iobit and it is day and night, is that difference also in windows 10 and 11 ??
Can you check the latency of the ryzen 5800x3d on windows 10 please????
NH-D15 handles the 11900k fine, but I've also got it in a Fractal Torrent so that definitely helps.
No lol , d15 was not enough, even if cpu delided, xc7pro and 2x420mm slim radiators barely are enough
@@michal89chz Weird, I've been using mine for quite a while with MCE enabled and it's doing just fine. Your setup is overkill and clearly has an issue if it can't handle an 11900k, let alone a delidded one.
just got a 11900k with $260, can't say it's a steal, but definitely an upgrade from 11700F with my 4070Ti without buying a new motherboard with a new CPU
Great video , i have a question what will be a good upgrade from a i5 10400 , i jave a b560m and a 3060ti.
If you can get the 11900k cheap enough it’ll run great with your 3060ti. I had that setup as my daily for a while and just upgraded my gpu to a 4070 super. In all honesty, I may just return it and get 3060ti again.
Not really a huge jump in my opinion.
If you know how to tune all the timings for ddr4 an 11900k is the same gaming performance as 5800X3D :) Though it does use a ton more power.
Interesting, are these figures including patches for Downfall or not?
could this be a problem with e-cores? maybe windows is just using the crappy e cores when nothing is happening causing this buggy behaviour and higher latency.
u could try test this with an i5 12400 or something, see if that still has issues
Windows 11 is *mostly* fine, but little issues pop up that are annoying despite trying to debloat the OS. Only run it on my 4700U based laptop and Win 10 is for my main pc's.
Everybody with an 11th Gen and older Intel cpu is rejoicing that their chip isn't prone to failure.
There's also virtualization technology and other crap like that in the bios that I'm not sure what to make of. I would love to see some testing on all these settings.
Unless you are using multiple machines virtualization is useless.
@@LastExile1989 Some people say it's useful for emulators, I don't know if that's actually true or not. But there's other stuff in the bios as well like Isochronus Support, I have no idea what that is, and whether all these things bloat the CPU.