You are SO RIGHT with that last statement. People who think AC's Rufus is a retcon and a forced redemption don't understand that the alternative we had until then was deeply flawed. If the story ended with him dying in a last heroic attempt at defeating the weapons it would just be "meh", but having him be deeply injured, frail, and still heroic out of the public eye and even some private eyes (He could've told Cloud what the deal was but still chose to carry the burden alone) is way more powerful. I had no idea about all that stuff in the novel, but it just elevates his position in AC even further. Him accepting death just to realize it takes the form of geostima and choosing to LIVE and to BE BETTER is once again reforcing the idea that a simple redemption-through-sacrifice would've been weak. This is a game about life and loss, after all, and how we shouldn't give up even in the direst of circumstances. It's so great to see that theme carried over to the "big villain" himself, the apparent one-note bad guy who is supposed to represent all Shinra.
I just love how Rufus Shinra continues to be needy and desperate for validation from himself, not from others, for being able to exert impact and influence on the world. He doesn't try to get validated by others, that is why he uses others and tries to control people to vanquish his need to feel self-reliant and control. That what's most intriguing about the character. Kind of like Thomas Shelby, they both fight other people to understand themselves, albeit in unhealthy, or healthy ways.
@@HarveyMcCloud I think in FF7 Remake, President Shinra and Rufus are further going to be developed to be different. The President Shinra we see in the Remake is more calculating and ruthless as he not only wants to maintain his political and economic monopoly but is also willing to use any means to do so. He purposely destroys Shinra Mako Reactors to frame AVALANCHE thus stoking fear and paranoia among the citizenry that he exploits to further centralize his power. Additionally he seems much more of a war-monger as he wants to exploit AVALANCHE actions and his acts of self-sabotage which includes Mako reactor destruction and sector 7 plate's fall to blame Wutai to re-ignite a second war against that nation rallying the citizenry of Midgar City under Shinra's banner further increasing his political power and control over the citizenry. He also allows Hojo to interrogate and torment Aerith psychologically and even seem receptive to Hojo's plans of making Aerith a Breeding slave if it allows him to find the mythical promised land. Rufus was given very less screen-time but I think he is being built as more morally ambiguous character from the get go since he doesn't make any speech or indication that he plans on ruling with fear or terror but gives a vague announcement that he marks "a new beginning for Shinra. I feel this is intentional so that his transition and development to become more empathetic character will go more smoothly.
Okay, now I see Rufus in a completely new light. I think what Rebirth did to him actually help emphasize his more nuanced morality that stem from hardening his heart and his hatred of his father, rather than him just an evil dictator. I think the change in character actually help make him a foil to his father rather than him being President Shinra 2.0 with his evilness and apathy dialed up. I can't wait for Part 3 to explore his backstory and relation with Glenn, because I can't help but feel like what Rufus done to Glenn is the catalyst for the person he is in Remake series.
I definitely think initially og ff7 Rufus died. That's what they intended until they realized they could milk the series and that's how it would have stayed had they not. However, I am glad they chose to resurrect him for the extended compilation and give him more story worth telling. To me, he was never really that bad or uninteresting enough to be killed off as simply a secondary villain. Also big agree on the simping part. Not so much back in the day but remake really awakened something that cannot be undone.
Agreed. I do think the extended universe retroactively makes Rufus' death more impactful, but of course, it retcons it at the same time. Writers need to understand that bringing a villain (or any character back really) back when they presumably died, severely undermines the hero's triumph. The writers did it with Sephiroth for Advent Children. Resident Evil brought Wesker back in the most ridiculous way. When they do that, then you can't ever believe that any character is truly gone and the story would never end. It's just "okay, let's see until he comes back again somehow." I myself have mild hang ups about Rufus' survival. But at least the writers _tried_ to make it somewhat believable. At least, not any more unbelievable than other stuff people have been capable of surviving in the FF7 universe. That being said, yes Rufus is insanely sexy in the remake, even if his redesign is hella dumb. I'm streaming FF7 intergrade on Twitch now too, if you would like to stop by.
@@HarveyMcCloud idk if you've read some of the novels written by Nojima but, The Kids Are Alright: A Turks Side Story (which is a book I really love) also brings back Don Corneo as a cripple. He's still a disgusting creep, so at least he's not given some aweful redemption. But it does further raise the point of- who DOES die in this universe? Anyways, thank you for taking the time. I'll look into your streams 👍
@@catarena8031 I have listened to the Audiobook of just the first story of "The Kids are Alright." If I recall correctly, the main character is another half brother to Rufus.
@@HarveyMcCloudthink in terms of how japanese people think of style. Asian royal peoples robes were more wide in the past. Writers wanted to make Rufus look like the monarchy of Japan, albeit evil, but you get my point why they made his style very wide and white.
I really like this. I didn't really like Rufus in the OG. But man I came to love him in Advent Children. And then playing Remake just reaffirmed my adoration for him. I have actually never read the novel so I didn't know all of that about his childhood but I'm definitely gonna buy it and read it now. I LOVE character redemption arcs. Especially when they own their mistakes and don't shift the blame. Rufus wasn't a good person at the start but he is getting there. Just a little at a time. And it makes my sappy heart proud ❤
I love Rufus cause I noticed he is never like his father. The father has done do much damage to the planet and kills people where he deemed fit. Rufus is never like that.
👏👏👏 POUR ONE OUT FOR MY RUFUS SHINRA SIMPS! but honestly this was so good!! you did such a great job going over his character and his developement! AAAHH!!
I never played Before Crisis. That kinda helps me understand Advent Children a bit more. The action was great, but the story always felt pretty confusing.
Same, it's all very confusing. Before Crisis is extremely confusing. My little brief overview deals primarily with just Rufus but I didn't scratch the surface with that game.
Love this. He's always been my favorite character in FF7. His family life gets even more complicated knowing his half-brother shows up in Before Crisis, too. And they don't seem to be on good terms either. I love the breakdown, it's been YEARS since I read On a Way to a Smile and you made it seem much more interesting a read than I remember it being originally lol Thank you!
I kind of cheated. I listened to the fan audiobook by Thelifestream that featured music and voice acting. _They_ made it a very enjoyable experience. Thank you for your comment!
Your research is top notched! I had no clue about the Japan-only games. Your narration has gotten really good, too!! I was waiting for you to make a video like this.
I'm curious, do you think his use of an animal companion in the form of Darkstar reflects his suppressed compassion and desire for companionship? The animal seems almost crazed and its collar does not look all to comfortable but he doesn't outright mistreat it either so it's unclear if it follows his command out of fear of pain or actual training.
I'd like to think that Darkstar was trained. The collar is for "Just in case he goes feral" but with how he commands and actually calls off Darkstar when you beat it shows that he does care for his loyal monstrous pet
Given how darkstar reacts when Rufus in losing in the gold saucer arena, having to be restrained from assisting and then breaking through to help Rufus, I think there’s some genuine companionship between them. I like that they gave Rufus a pet, even though it’s a fiend there for his protection. Which is a cool idea on its own.
this is really good the other video i saw was just simplifying him as a fearless narcissist, this is much more thorough. i did feel he had a ambiguous sense of redemption about him that i couldnt put my finger on
hi! i know im late to this video but i defend the turks with me life and i heard you say “since the only way out of the turks is death”, where did you get that info from? i want to use that as an argument to defend them 😂
Still we have to consider, that the original FF7 stood for itself. Before the novels and compilation. And in this original closed story, he stays the cold bad guy. And dies in the end. I still like to see FF7 for what it was, before they add so much stuff to it. With an uncertain fate for humanity and... a dead rufus (and hojo, tseng, cornero etc.)
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
You are SO RIGHT with that last statement.
People who think AC's Rufus is a retcon and a forced redemption don't understand that the alternative we had until then was deeply flawed. If the story ended with him dying in a last heroic attempt at defeating the weapons it would just be "meh", but having him be deeply injured, frail, and still heroic out of the public eye and even some private eyes (He could've told Cloud what the deal was but still chose to carry the burden alone) is way more powerful.
I had no idea about all that stuff in the novel, but it just elevates his position in AC even further. Him accepting death just to realize it takes the form of geostima and choosing to LIVE and to BE BETTER is once again reforcing the idea that a simple redemption-through-sacrifice would've been weak. This is a game about life and loss, after all, and how we shouldn't give up even in the direst of circumstances. It's so great to see that theme carried over to the "big villain" himself, the apparent one-note bad guy who is supposed to represent all Shinra.
I just love how Rufus Shinra continues to be needy and desperate for validation from himself, not from others, for being able to exert impact and influence on the world. He doesn't try to get validated by others, that is why he uses others and tries to control people to vanquish his need to feel self-reliant and control. That what's most intriguing about the character. Kind of like Thomas Shelby, they both fight other people to understand themselves, albeit in unhealthy, or healthy ways.
I'm interested to see how he's portrayed in the last part. Do you think he will be arrogant about beating the weapon with mako tech?
Yea he's got some father issues.
This has got the be the best breakdown of his characterization and character arc yet! Keep up the great work
Thank you so much! I just saw Final Fantasy Union's video on him uploaded last night. I think my breaks him down just a smidge better ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@HarveyMcCloud I think in FF7 Remake, President Shinra and Rufus are further going to be developed to be different.
The President Shinra we see in the Remake is more calculating and ruthless as he not only wants to maintain his political and economic monopoly but is also willing to use any means to do so. He purposely destroys Shinra Mako Reactors to frame AVALANCHE thus stoking fear and paranoia among the citizenry that he exploits to further centralize his power.
Additionally he seems much more of a war-monger as he wants to exploit AVALANCHE actions and his acts of self-sabotage which includes Mako reactor destruction and sector 7 plate's fall to blame Wutai to re-ignite a second war against that nation rallying the citizenry of Midgar City under Shinra's banner further increasing his political power and control over the citizenry. He also allows Hojo to interrogate and torment Aerith psychologically and even seem receptive to Hojo's plans of making Aerith a Breeding slave if it allows him to find the mythical promised land.
Rufus was given very less screen-time but I think he is being built as more morally ambiguous character from the get go since he doesn't make any speech or indication that he plans on ruling with fear or terror but gives a vague announcement that he marks "a new beginning for Shinra. I feel this is intentional so that his transition and development to become more empathetic character will go more smoothly.
Okay, now I see Rufus in a completely new light. I think what Rebirth did to him actually help emphasize his more nuanced morality that stem from hardening his heart and his hatred of his father, rather than him just an evil dictator. I think the change in character actually help make him a foil to his father rather than him being President Shinra 2.0 with his evilness and apathy dialed up. I can't wait for Part 3 to explore his backstory and relation with Glenn, because I can't help but feel like what Rufus done to Glenn is the catalyst for the person he is in Remake series.
I definitely think initially og ff7 Rufus died. That's what they intended until they realized they could milk the series and that's how it would have stayed had they not.
However, I am glad they chose to resurrect him for the extended compilation and give him more story worth telling. To me, he was never really that bad or uninteresting enough to be killed off as simply a secondary villain.
Also big agree on the simping part. Not so much back in the day but remake really awakened something that cannot be undone.
Agreed. I do think the extended universe retroactively makes Rufus' death more impactful, but of course, it retcons it at the same time. Writers need to understand that bringing a villain (or any character back really) back when they presumably died, severely undermines the hero's triumph. The writers did it with Sephiroth for Advent Children. Resident Evil brought Wesker back in the most ridiculous way. When they do that, then you can't ever believe that any character is truly gone and the story would never end. It's just "okay, let's see until he comes back again somehow."
I myself have mild hang ups about Rufus' survival. But at least the writers _tried_ to make it somewhat believable. At least, not any more unbelievable than other stuff people have been capable of surviving in the FF7 universe. That being said, yes Rufus is insanely sexy in the remake, even if his redesign is hella dumb. I'm streaming FF7 intergrade on Twitch now too, if you would like to stop by.
@@HarveyMcCloud idk if you've read some of the novels written by Nojima but, The Kids Are Alright: A Turks Side Story (which is a book I really love) also brings back Don Corneo as a cripple. He's still a disgusting creep, so at least he's not given some aweful redemption. But it does further raise the point of- who DOES die in this universe?
Anyways, thank you for taking the time. I'll look into your streams 👍
@@catarena8031 I have listened to the Audiobook of just the first story of "The Kids are Alright." If I recall correctly, the main character is another half brother to Rufus.
@@HarveyMcCloud yep, that's it.
@@HarveyMcCloudthink in terms of how japanese people think of style. Asian royal peoples robes were more wide in the past. Writers wanted to make Rufus look like the monarchy of Japan, albeit evil, but you get my point why they made his style very wide and white.
I really like this. I didn't really like Rufus in the OG. But man I came to love him in Advent Children. And then playing Remake just reaffirmed my adoration for him. I have actually never read the novel so I didn't know all of that about his childhood but I'm definitely gonna buy it and read it now. I LOVE character redemption arcs. Especially when they own their mistakes and don't shift the blame. Rufus wasn't a good person at the start but he is getting there. Just a little at a time. And it makes my sappy heart proud ❤
I love Rufus cause I noticed he is never like his father. The father has done do much damage to the planet and kills people where he deemed fit. Rufus is never like that.
What a beautiful miracle is Rufus . So underquoted...he's so kind when he protects people with is intelligence.❤😊
👏👏👏 POUR ONE OUT FOR MY RUFUS SHINRA SIMPS!
but honestly this was so good!! you did such a great job going over his character and his developement! AAAHH!!
🥂
I never played Before Crisis. That kinda helps me understand Advent Children a bit more. The action was great, but the story always felt pretty confusing.
Actually, some parts of the original still confuse the shit outta me.
Same, it's all very confusing. Before Crisis is extremely confusing. My little brief overview deals primarily with just Rufus but I didn't scratch the surface with that game.
Love this. He's always been my favorite character in FF7. His family life gets even more complicated knowing his half-brother shows up in Before Crisis, too. And they don't seem to be on good terms either. I love the breakdown, it's been YEARS since I read On a Way to a Smile and you made it seem much more interesting a read than I remember it being originally lol Thank you!
I kind of cheated. I listened to the fan audiobook by Thelifestream that featured music and voice acting. _They_ made it a very enjoyable experience. Thank you for your comment!
I miss ginger Rufus. I understand changing it for the battle sprite in the original, but I wish they had kept it in Advent and everything else.
Your research is top notched! I had no clue about the Japan-only games. Your narration has gotten really good, too!!
I was waiting for you to make a video like this.
Quite a bit of lore indeed
I'm curious, do you think his use of an animal companion in the form of Darkstar reflects his suppressed compassion and desire for companionship?
The animal seems almost crazed and its collar does not look all to comfortable but he doesn't outright mistreat it either so it's unclear if it follows his command out of fear of pain or actual training.
I'd like to think that Darkstar was trained. The collar is for "Just in case he goes feral" but with how he commands and actually calls off Darkstar when you beat it shows that he does care for his loyal monstrous pet
Given how darkstar reacts when Rufus in losing in the gold saucer arena, having to be restrained from assisting and then breaking through to help Rufus, I think there’s some genuine companionship between them. I like that they gave Rufus a pet, even though it’s a fiend there for his protection. Which is a cool idea on its own.
I really hope before crisis is remade or referenced.
I think Ever Crisis will include Before Crisis.
this is really good the other video i saw was just simplifying him as a fearless narcissist, this is much more thorough. i did feel he had a ambiguous sense of redemption about him that i couldnt put my finger on
I appreciate your hard work! Such interesting depth analysis!
I hope they don't ruin him in the remake
Wonderful =) thx you for your work! Merry Chrismas and be health!
I love him so much. I love him much more after Episode: Turks😍
And hes hot :)
Me love him long time.
@@HarveyMcCloud him and light Yagami, proof I didn't have a chance to be straight, xD
@@Fehorder I was more of an L gal myself but I getchu 😘
I kind of feel like there is a ff7 game we never got after doc.
I gotta ask, at the end of the Retrilogy are you going to remake this with the new info we have and will have on Rufus?
I hope so. I haven't played rebirth yet but have seen many scenes and there's a lot to work with.
@@HarveyMcCloud I look forward to it!
Good video, well done
hi! i know im late to this video but i defend the turks with me life and i heard you say “since the only way out of the turks is death”, where did you get that info from? i want to use that as an argument to defend them 😂
I think it's mentioned in Before Crisis.
Still we have to consider, that the original FF7 stood for itself. Before the novels and compilation. And in this original closed story, he stays the cold bad guy. And dies in the end.
I still like to see FF7 for what it was, before they add so much stuff to it.
With an uncertain fate for humanity and... a dead rufus (and hojo, tseng, cornero etc.)