Reading the comments, and something I find interesting is the assumption that a lot of the anime style critique comes from people who don't understand or generally hate anime. It's possible to enjoy drawing in the style and also be critical of certain aspects of it. I will say that the person who made the 'anime is an incestuous style' comment is someone who has worked in the Japanese and Western animation industries, so it's more of an observation born from being quite knowledgeable and deep in the field and not otherwise. Maybe they could have worded it differently tho hahaha
I think what needs to happen is just an understanding of why anime style or "cal-arts" style, or Disney style, or comic book style ect exists as it is. The point is to make something that can be animated or made into a comic quickly and efficiently where the emphasis is more on storytelling. It's been honed down to a sort of system which especially helps when working as a team. The issue happens when young people come into art and just want to draw from stories that they like. An extreme example is the kid who only knows how to draw batman. They aren't thinking about why the style exists in its current form, they just want to draw what they currently like. A good art teacher should encourage them to try other things, not because that style is bad but because it's not an efficient way of learning about aspects of art that don't have to do with animation or storytelling. Just making people aware of the "why" their chosen art style is the way it is will hopefully get them thinking about art in a more well-rounded way. This also applies to the conversation about modern/abstract art.
the "incestuous artstyle" comment/logic is just so weird to me like, I kind of understand it in the sense of variety, but if what they meant is stylization that drifts away from reality... Out of all the art I see, not even 20% of them are ultra stylized, and I think that's very boring. Which makes me think: if every artstyle was purely "breeded" out of your interpretation of physical reality, everything would be a very limited semi-realistic artstyle, which honestly it's what the art community reality is feeling like to me rn. what I would say is, BREED YOUR ARTSTYLE INCESTUOUSLY IDC, add your own twist to it, and beware of basics of how things interact in the physical reality, BUT PLEASE, PLEAAASE don't just have a realistic artstyle that you use 100% of the time, that's so boring. Treat your artstyle like humanity treated bulldogs, cause at least your artstyle won't have to live as a living being, that's the fun of it.
^ adding to my previous reply, I think it's pretty clear that the one saying those things above is an artist who's whole spark for art was stabilized by _adding magic shrooms to_ and/or _drifting away from_ reality, and having experimental fun with it. The whole reason I was charmed by art was the fact that it _wasn't_ reality, and that people could just do psychedelic stuff with it and MAKE IT _INTO_ reality. So like, by saying that you're basically telling an art shroomer to tone down the shroom and face reality. Would get way more burnt out and depressed if I had to do that
@jo-flowbmoonsmell8564 I mean, if you look into the background of every great contemporary artist presenting their beginnings, they pretty much all drew either anime or superheroes from marvel or DC. It's not that big of a crisis that some people make it. If you don't start by drawing something you are interested, you lose interest afterwards and don't get anywhere. Some people will start by drawing cars all the time, or flowers, and that's all they'll draw, and it's not bad. Drawing what you want to draw is the only path to individuality. And frankly, there is a lot to learn from drawing the style of a comic book or animation that you like, I knew how to stylize and experiment in different ways at a much younger age because I just tried to copy and learn different styles of shows that I liked and I became way ahead of a lot of people who stopped doing it because teachers told them to. It's simply a field difference, my painting teacher always told me to stop doing it, my animation teacher told me that it was the best thing I did.
@@herssel1145 literally or theyve just seen clips of some weird anime made in like 2012. plus the reason why anime artstyles look """"the same"""" according to them, is bc anime is ANIMATED and you cant perfectly recreate the mangaka's artstyle (and all mangaka's art styles are different btw) while also keeping the animation fluid and consistent. its so dummb i swaear
@@edgarallanpoe209 yep. Also it is really risty to create an anime with different art style since the public might not really like it, wich even causes some of them to sell really bad to the point of the studio to close. Still, even the ones that are the most famous have really different art styles (like One Piece, DBZ and Naruto)
Agreed I found a lot of these to be really petty? Like the one saying they will unfollow artists who only draw fanart.. like.. idk, that’s your choice but personally I’d never let something like that get to me eso if I really like the art itself. We all know drawing fanart is a way that bring artists attention for their work
To say anime is a "style" isn't wrong, but it also is a very very broad style (it's more of a genre). You won't confuse for example, the work of Horikoshi with the work of Takeshi Obata or Aidairo or Junji Ito or Demizu Posuka. Like any other simplistic style born from caricature/cartoon, anime/manga style is limiting, but that's the point. It definitely doesn't limit how far you can go though. To say that it all looks the same and is limiting and says you have "no skill", is just a terribly blindsided statement. That'd just be looking at 1 side of the thing and pretending that it's all there is to see, it's choosing to ignore that there actually really good styles and works in the anime art genre. By saying that it shows "0 skill" or that it's "style incest" just shows how much you don't understand. That's actually just saying that you don't know how to make it your own, how to take it and go far with it. That kind of comment is just really maddening, because clearly, they don't understand a thing about how art styles or genres work.
this is exactly what i was thinking, there is so much variation in the anime genre and to just boil it down to the style hoyoverse uses is very... strange? hoyoverse is so newly popular and while its art might be "generic" (for lack of a better word) its absolutely not a representation of the genre as a whole and actually does have some unique aspects to itself as well. there are tons of famous anime artists who have extremely unique styles and the genre as a whole has had some really interesting trend development... not to mention all the smaller independent artists who have their own amazing twists building on the genre. just because the style is limiting for one person doesnt mean its limiting for everyone.
While it's true that the 'anime art style' isn't a monolith, there are outliers and trends in it just as much as anything else. Artists like Osamu Tezuka, Junji Ito, Imaishi, Sushio, Hirohiko Araki, take, Naoki Urasawa etc etc are great artists that show the full diversity of anime art styles BECAUSE they reference and take influence from other mediums. Yes, 'anime' isn't a singular style and it's very diverse, but it's diverse BECAUSE of the people who actually reference from real life and not...just other anime. Which is what people are critiquing.
I'm just going to add this, I think that "Manga" has a wide variety in style. Not so much when it comes to getting an anime, because most mangas that get animated don't get the same treatment and aren't always consistent with the style of the manga. Which gives a lot of animes a same-ish type feeling. (Which has been talked about a bit recently - Isekai's suffer heavily from this) Not that it's a bad thing, but when you get people who only know anime styles from literally anime, it can have the impression that it all looks the same.
Yeah, I had a lot of art teachers that I saw the studies of, and it did not compare to the level of study japanese artists have before they go into the animation or manga industry.
Honestly the whole child prodigy thing, I mostly ignore those because they fuck with my ego and I dont want to spill my poison It's great how people share my toxic mindset less go lmao(😭)
@@AUSWQPCV I think thats just an assumption, some people just improve faster than others, Id like to add art is subjective Ive seen people upset when they see child prodigies when, imo they have better art
I got a headache from seeing similar art styles being described as "incest between styles" people should learn how to study language before criticizing art Edit: I made this take at 3am cause "incest of styles" is the most ridiculous thing to call hoyo's generic art style which is made to be marketable to any anime fan despite being made in China, where many artists have more diverse art styles. Most anime artists study from life but have similar styles because they follow the rules of what anime is supposed to look like. There are so many subtleties to the aesthetics of the anime art style it feels rude to call it incestuous.
saying a group of things or people is 'incestuous' is actually a common phrase, especially with older generations. It essentially means that the group only deals with themselves or itself and doesn't allow outsiders. eg. "the world of classical music is very hard to break into unless your a child of someone who has already made it. It's an incestuous community." Hope this comment helps.
The part where Anna talks about how "art school was most useful in terms of exposing her to things she wouldn't have sought out on her own" and how "she didn't know what she didn't know if she were entirely self direct her studies" resonated with me because after graduating I was thinking that I didn't learn much but then I realized that now I knew for sure what wasn't my thing thanks to that exposure to different forms of art and design, and it was helpful. Also opportunity to communicate with people interested in different forms of art and seeing them at work may contribute to developing new ideas you could've not come up with being in your own bubble.
I think that more kids nowadays are getting better at art earlier than it's expected because of two things. Time and resources. The kids on the internet have all the tutorials and concepts like color theory and perspective in the world available to them, and they have so much more time to devote to their craft. The only thing they really have to worry about (at least most kids) is their schoolwork and even then they can still draw at school. Not to mention they already have the built-in imagination and energy to draw all the time! So, if you're an older artist with the same timeframe of drawing as a younger artist and your skill levels are at completely different (assuming you both have the same goalpoint in mind like realism or vibrant cohesive palettes) just remember that everyone learns at different paces and you probably don't have the same time and energy as the younger artist does. Like I've been drawing since middle school and I have friends who are younger than me who ,objectively, draw better than I do but we both have different tools, inspirations and goals for our art so it doesn't bug me that much anymore
Hey can we stop shaming artists drawing what they want to draw I'm getting sick of this shit. An artist, by definition, is "a person engaged in an activity related to creating art, practicing the arts, or demonstrating an art." Art is, by definition, "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." This incorporates both art for the sake of art and art with meaning behind it. Both of these fall under the definition. Both are valid. Stop gatekeeping artists! The point is literally to express ourselves and/or *have fun*, and as a community it really sucks how we have a bit of a problem with toxicity online (To be fair, it is a negativity bias, but takes that are becoming more commonplace are fucking wild; What the hell is "incest between styles?" Tell me you don't know how artists create an original artstyle without telling me you don't know how artists create an original artstyle). Given that we should primarily be a safe space for artists of all skill levels, we should be building each other up instead of trying to invalidate one another. I am NOT talking about constructive criticism by the way; I want to make that as clear as possible. I am specifically addressing all the gatekeeping. Telling someone they aren't an artist because they're drawing... shit differently than you..? You can do art for you, you don't owe anybody anything and if you want to aim for a professional level? Go ahead! Wanna vent your emotions through painting? Sounds great! Want to draw for the sake of drawing? HELL YEAH! Want to shame someone for doing any of these? *HELL NO!*
Nobody said that people who like drawing stereotypical anime characters aren't real artists. They were just saying they thought the artstyle was ugly and that one of the reasons it has become so ugly is because it borrows from itself too much and therefore has lost touch with how reality looks and become unrecognisable. It borrowing from itself is being compared to incest in a metaphor.
@@FrankTheAmazing Two things 1) When talking about the 'aren't real artists' thing, I was referring to specific comments starting at and between 10:09-10:34, not specifically to stereotypical anime artists. I guess I didn't separate it enough to avoid confusion, that's my bad. 2) I get the whole gist about the metaphor.. but incest is the worst way to put it. Not only does it immediately give it a negative connotation, but plenty of genres intentionally lose touch with reality in exchange for aesthetic appeal and it feels like exaggerated hate (Especially when people start yapping about how such art takes no effort) and then to expand on that artstyle people take what they like about it or other art in the same genre and make their own version. When I say it's a wild take, it's because of the implications of the term itself. (By the way! I do have trouble communicating tone through text so my apologies if this came off passive aggressive in any way! D:)
That might apply to hobby artists who can do whatever they want but if you're serious about being an artist and improving, relying on the anime 'style' as a crutch is very much a bad thing. Think about how many artists complain that they can't draw darker skin, or older people or different faces, or anything other than the most stick thin of characters because it doesn't fit their "style". Think about how many people get their characters whitewashed or drawn off model or even have commissions rejected because it doesn't fit that artist's anime 'style'. It's not even that anime inherently doesn't allow those things, because there are plenty of shows and character designers that does (Satoshi Kon and Sushio off the top of my mind) but it's because they can reference things that aren't just anime and actively work to make things fit into their style. The same can't be said about people who exclusively reference other anime and uses it as an excuse to not improve themselves. It stagnates your ability and the range of things you can draw. Look at all the same faces in shit like Hoyolab's character designs and Love Live. The classic "Anime art style" and character designs are just boring to look at and this feeding off itself to look like the same sanitized pretty anime girls is then likened to incest as a metaphor. And every time someone critiques this, people LOVE to come out of the woodworks to talk about 'but actually, we should be able to draw whatever we want'. Yeah you can. Doesnt mean people still cant criticize it or comment on a trend that actively harms your growth as an artist.
Everything cartoony is Anime to some people.. Hell, even my scruffy, no line art, saturated colours in your face artstyle gets packaged into "Anime" by the wide majority SIMPLY because it's not overrendered and realistic. Hell, depending on what work - I'd label my art more abstract than anime sometimes... I swear, it's the same with clothing styles and "cores" too. Not everything should be able to be defined with one word, not every style has to be labelled. As for soulless modern art - this is incredibly anecdotal but my grandmother is an abstract artist and she just did it for fun. Eventually got some paintings in a local gallery and I'm proud of her for it. At first i didn't particularly like abstract art too, but the beauty in it is that - when done right, everyone can see different things in it.
I think you guys referred to genshin way too much when talking about anime , there are plenty of diverse styles. Paprika cowboy bebop berserk dragon ball Hunter x Hunter ghibli Persona panty and stocking Vagabond One Piece Danganronpa Just to name a few examples. Hoyo art isn't representative of Anime as a whole .
I absolutely hate it when people say 'the anime artstyle' because you want to look at me dead in the eye and tell me that chainsaw man and lucky star look like the same art style
I will look you straight in the eye and tell you that anime that doesn’t looks like other plain anime are the exceptions and not the rule, by n large anime has homogenized look too it
i feel insane thank u for saying this 😭 Like animanga is stylistically homogenous and it wouldnt kill anyone to point out the obvious. the differences between works in animanga are miniscule on average + the differences are usually among outliers. u can like anime and draw it but lets not lie to ourselves @@doctordice2doctordice210
personally i believe that people should be able to draw or do whatever they want, and it can still be art. there isnt a restriction on what is or isnt art, whether its anime or modern or whatever else. just let people do what they want, art is about self expression...
As someone who's art leans towards anime (At least that's what some of my real life acquaintances tell me when they see my art for the first time) I don't think the anime style is limiting. It depends on how the artist approaches their art. At first, some artist may look like they're just "copying" the anime style and it looks the same. But some are doing so for studying or that it's the art style of their favorite artist and they're "copying" it to learn how their art works and slowly developed their own style. I don't think that's a bad thing all the time! People might just be a bit impatient X,D. When I first started doing art, I was inspired by anime. I liked Precure, Aikatsu, and Pokémon. I remember I would take screenshots of almost every single frame of the Pokémon anime to use as reference. I never thought early on that I could use real life references or that I could make my style more painterly or something. So I did limit myself since I was trying so hard to make my style similar to Pokémon since I had a Pokémon Trainer OC and I felt that was necessary. I did eventually stop doing this though and my style slowly evolved into a painterly style after being exposed to more artists on Social Media and I began trying to put my own flare with my art and not to limit myself so much. I just dislike how that one person said anime style is like "incest between styles" it just felt disturbing. I understand if they don't like the anime style since people are entitled to their own opinions and their opinion is valid. But that was not a nice comment, they could've just say they look the same without using that word :,)...
Indeed specially when yes there are generic anime styles there is also a big diversity of styles (specially in manga I feel) you can see multiple styles. Personally when I am trying to improve my own art I grab multiple artists I adore (being internet artists of like manga/anime art) and simply note down the things that I like about those style and create "my Frankenstein" with the things I enjoyed and just change it as I go. It feels like so many people are just entitled when it comes to art that if looks a way they don't like their first instinct is insult it (like with the incest comments🤢)
I really don’t get what they mean by it being “ limiting” though. If the artist has committed to drawing in a “anime” style and could drawing everything you could imagine in that same style, would going behind that “limit”mean starting to draw realism? But the artist doesn’t want to do that.
And IKR about the phrase of calling it “incestuous”? Like in another reply people were going off about how supposedly “common” it is to call what they mean that and it’s like… no? Not at all? I have never heard that phrase describe similar styles by any professional artist or art teacher. Seems like another recent chronically online term that came around from people not liking a specific thing so bad that they gave it a name with bad connotations and ran with it. Like the term “pro shipper” art even if the artist doesn’t draw ships. By next week all the art tiktok community will be calling any style they don’t like this. 💀
Idk if this unpopular but i think that we should stop shaming ppl for having "repetitive" art styles and same face syndrome. There is a diference between recommending young artist that want to have an art career to experiment more on styles, body types and distinct faces. and bullying 12 year old's because they're pink haired anime tsundere girl is too similar to they're yandere blue haired girl. Not everyone wants to take art serious, and is not ok to shame them for that.
Unrelated to the topic of the video, seeing how slowly you draw/go through the process in your speedpaint is weirdly reassuring. I've been trying to speed up my art for years and get so frustrated when I take a long time, so finally seeing someone who isn't like 'look at this thing I drew in five minutes' is comforting
honestly the art community needs to start minding their business !! 😭 like why are we mad that people like drawing in a more "anime" (which is a very broad not that good way of describing the style) style. people will draw what they wanna draw and getting mad at people that draw the way they do isnt gonna do anything
29:04 I nearly choked at this comment As a self-aware beginner, I ask the skilled artists out there, please don't blast amateurs. I can usually tell what's wrong with my work, I just don't have the talent/experience to fix it yet. I know my art is "bad" in some areas, but I'm still proud of what I am doing right and the progress I'm making, so let us newbies be happy with our work. We're working hard to improve, after all.
My opinion is that artists who are closed minded towards unconventional ideas like modern or interpretive art have missed the whole point of art. Art is a space that makes you reflect on another person's point of view. Even when you create realistic piece, it's still your interpretation. I dont agree with people dismissing someone's artistic pov just because they dont get it. Sometime even, the whole point is to get a reaction out of you, anger , disappointment, etc. Maybe by getting mad at it we just proved their point. hahahah
I love this style of video, it gives me stuff to think about long after it's over (similarly to art that requires more thought than just what you see on first glance!). Early 20s and graduating from art school is a very interesting time to reflect on art and how our relationship to it has changed since being teens on the internet, honestly it can be kinda scary a lot of the time, like staring into the void a bit 😭 But your discussion made me want to talk about these kinds of things with my own friends rather than shying away from it, so thank you! :)
As a person who used to draw cats, then later started to draw humans, being told that drawing anime style is limiting, stereotypical and templated by an art teacher makes my blood boil. Yes, the message is supposed to be about exploring other styles, but to achieve that, we should stop degrading it or shaming it. There is a bunch of things to learn about techniques if we just stop dissing on it and observe what makes it a really endearing or popular.
reg anime art style and teachers: I think the only time where the teacher's are in the right abt telling their students to not draw anime, is when the student favors their current preferred art style over the art assignment. Like if the student pretty much ignores the point of the assignment of for example... draw a face that follows the average proportions, and instead just draws their fav anime character with massive eyes and a single dot for a nose, then obviously the teacher would be bothered. Because it isn't about anime style per say, it's about students ignoring their tasks and just draw whatever they want to. Those are times where I am on the teachers side. THAT SAID, I have heard enough stories of teachers drawing over/tearing apart drawings or even disrespect students in front of the whole class for the dumbest reasons. I've heard of teachers who permanently ruined someones love and will to draw and make art just because they like to draw anime style. And in those cases I am on the students side. You can point out things for someone they need to work on without treating them like shit.
The thing about fine art, modern art, contemporary art is that yes, there's a bit of a hump to actually get into it and start understanding it, and there is some gatekeeping around it and I do not blame people if they feel a bit alienated. That said if I were to give a comparison of why you might want to consider giving it some more of your time. Internet memes, if you have ever had the experience of trying to explain internet memes to someone, how self-referential it can be, some of the history, subcultures, and lexicon around it. Then that might give you a bit of an idea why you might be having a bit of a tough time with some art movements. You are stepping into the middle of some ongoing shenanigans, sometimes an art piece is a shitpost.
i learned a lot from drawing jojos characters. the art style accentuates anatomy a lot, and i could learn from araki's triumphs and his mistakes. drawing fanart can also be a really good step into learning how to come up with creative concepts - you already have a "base" story and character to work with.
regarding the very first opinion, i see where people who got annoyed at their teachers for saying "anime style" bad come from, bc a. that is objective, so say a specific style is wrong is .... just wrong. but also b. the teacher wont get their point across just by putting down the things the students like (or what i assume what is their point) i ge that teachers have to many students and not enough time, but i think a student would really benefit from having a genuine conversation on why their teacher would want them to try other styles. i personally dont think i ever want to teach at an high school, (i did study for that, but i think i much rather teach outside of school to people who genuinly want to learn) but if i were to teach and had a student who really likes anime i would have 2 main points to discuss with them, and considering that im sure multiple students are into anime/manga yearly, id say investing in some research before hand would help them understand, so i would 1. explain to the student why exploring other styles and drawing from life is important and i would try and see if i could find big names in anime/manga who have shown to have done this either in their published sketches or in their works. 2. and that i do want them to keep drawing anime/manga style as well, just not for school assigments, bc that is what they enjoy, and i dont take that away from them, i would tell them to explore different artist in that style and study them to help explore and develop their own style eventually. i dont want them to eventually get discouraged from art all together. and i feel like if they keep on making art for themselves they will either get really good in this style or eventually look at other styles anyway. aside from this, i feel like a lot more people would enjoy art more if their experience at school were more encouraging
On talking about modern or abstract art I feel like it is up to interpretation, when I was applying to an art school a while ago my mom took me to an art museum to look at some of the pieces, and a lot of it was modern or abstract! When there we played almost a game of trying to figure out what it meant before reading the plaque about what it was actually representing, I feel like in order to understand modern or abstract art you need to experience it in a place where your already given the context to really go through what the thought process was for the artist or just try and figure out what if means. Like you said, all art has meaning even what seems pointless and while I was at the museum a place I thoroughly thought I was going to get nothing out of I learned a lot about how I can put messages and themeing in my art without telling the viewer directly. There's always something to learn with art even stuff we think is pointless.
Art is your subjective emotional experience and when modern art requires a dissertation to "explain" what it means, it destroys the purpose of art. In fact, if you have to be told how to experience a modern art piece like a blob of paint, it's just wrong. The modern art movement is run by galleries, auction houses, and the ultra rich. It is a money laundering scheme for the ultra rich. There are plenty of YT videos which explain why a blob of paint can sell for $100 million USD.
@@asimian8500 since i wrote this comment yeah i deffinitly agree, I feel like the first art, maybe a few after might have been original (though not worth the price) and everything after that was just unoriginal and boring, a cash grab.
It's crazy how uncreative the real world museum art is than on the internet. Getting their paintings sold for THOUSANDS for a simple painting ANYONE can do. It doesn't even have to be a painting like the banana taped to a wall. 😭
@@pinksywedarnoc8017 Even though I personally don't like the giant canvases of one solid color, not everyone can do them. The thing about the big canvas with one color of paint is that, when you see them in real life, the paint is spread so evenly that it looks machine made/ it hides the texture of the canvas. (I don't remember the actual artist's name) but that's why their art is impressive, it's about the technique and patience it took.
@@juli5945 See I would agree if it wasn't the fact that a good chunk of famous artists like this actually use a whole slew of interns to make the art and the 'artist' that has the name slapped on doesn't actually have much if any contact with the art piece itself (example - Damien Hirst who is notorious for having his assistant's do his paintings, Jewlers make his famous Diamond skull and another company to taxidermy all his shock value art pieces). Hell a lot of em don't have any care at akll and will literally throw paint at a canvas and make up some bs message that makes the big bucks feel important. That's really the only reason this no-effort stuff sells for such big money - marketing and a brand name.
I hope you're not talking about International Klein Blue canvas. Because Yves Klein the artist had to do TONS of experiments to turn that "blue" into a color while keeping its original qualities. He basically invented that color.
I believe art schools are very useful but when I attended hearing teachers constantly say we could’ve learned this on UA-cam for free is very nerve wracking and made me rethink on whether I should be there or not and if I’m wasting time and money
I don’t really have much to add to the convo but I do want to give props to y’all for honestly giving one of the most measured responses when it comes to the topic of Modern Art that I haven’t seen in a long while👏🏾
Whenever someone say anime style they always mean the typical moe art while blatantly ignoring how different animes styles from each other are. Like Junji Ito is a big example and majority of the shounen anime like my hero academia don't even fall into the typical moe art category.
Anime definitely has a lot of variety, and many manga authors have a very distinctive style, but that doesn't change the fact that anime art can be super repetitive. I don't think people are talking about the style of Junji Ito or MHA when they say that, more so about the endless flood of anime that is constantly getting produced, and the huge amount of online artists that do similar anime art using the same techniques as everyone else in the community.
People who really do think that 'Anime art style is all the same!" really, truly I think have bothered to do enough research. While yes, I do know that there are some anime/manga art styles that can be similar to one another. But sometimes, this is often the case when they are made under the same Studio.
10:09 this is genuinely the worst take in the entire video I think, and I find it ridiculous that some people actually agree with it. If drawing/painting (or in other words) making art, doesn't make you an artist then what does? How popular your art is? How 'good' it is? At what point do you decide that someone finally meets the qualifications to be an artist outside of simply making art? When they do it professionally? Some of my favourite artists do art as nothing more than a hobby, yet create some of the best art I've seen, why do they not deserve the title of an artist? The entire take feels outdated and stupid. It doesn't matter what metric you decide, because the only proper way to know if someone is an artist, is if they make art. Just because it isn't art you deem 'good enough' doesn't mean it isn't art. I hate stupid takes like this. They do nothing for the community and in general add nothing of worth to a discussion besides unnecessary discourse and a 'holier than thou' attitude.
One of my 10B unpopular art opinions is That people have to sometimes keep their blind mouth shut about art styles or types they do not know anything about Anime/manga/webtoon/comic artists (my people) have to shut up about realistic or modern art and the reverse goes too
Anime styles are definitely a thing to me, and I do appreciate the changes between an anime artist and other, many have some thing in common but for the love of god.......Everyone creates their style, give one personal touch here and there and I can tell after sooooo many years that those lil changes do have impact. I do agree though, as an artist AND ex genshin player, genshin impact negatively changed my artstyle for a time and now I and again taking joy in drawing different things, like my pets and the plants at my city parks, and doing cartoony portraits of people I know well. A personal tip because this saved my drawings, if anyone feels that their faces are getting a bit of ``same face syndrome´´, try drawing older people, doesn´t matter, but drawn them also from different races and body type, that fat bald white man that is always smiling, the old black lady that is wise due to her age and studies, the grumpy asian shopkeeper that complains about the heat, those kind of people are people I get along almost on a daily basis here, friends and faces I know since I was little, and I bet there is people like that close to you. I´m not sure if it will help you, but im secure you will start loving it and even give your more typical animey draws some spice. Keep trying and you will end doing it as part of your journey.
Personal unpopular (idk though since I rarely socialise with people outside of my immediate circle) opinion of mine: No. Hoyoverse did not "ruin your style". Your lack and inability to take a character design and translate it to your own personal style with your personal headcanons of a character imbued into how you draw the character is what ruined your style. This is like if I looked at my JJBA phase of art and said that ruined my style. It would be untrue because the issue is specifically the fact I was not able to take the characters and add my personal flare to the art and was just drawing like a poor man's Araki. You can draw inspiration from something like genshin's characters and make your own spin on the characters. There are many artists who do so and still retain their own personal unique style despite using these designs. You just lack the general skill needed to do so in a way that doesn't just take the style hoyoverse has and use it one to one as a blueprint rather than allowing your style act as the blueprint for how you translate a design or character.
i feel that just drawing one type of person can do so bad for your journey in art even as a hobbyist, i noticed that when the new spiderverse movie came out and, even if there were many gorgeus fanart, there were a lot o artists who liked the movie but drew hobie, pavitr and even miles so wrong, lightining their skin or taking away their features (drawing small noses, etc)
The funny thing to me about the frustration with Hoyo artstyle is that yeah, its repetitive, it can be frustrating sometimes, and has other flaws, but at the end of the day i still would pick it over some other "anime styles" purely because their color palletes are so good and one thing i love more than anything is looking at pretty colors lmao.
I really appreciate the thoughtful conversation! The bit about modern art was so funny to me because I've always been of the opinion that it's worth studying in the same way that we should study the history of leeches as a legitimate medical practice 💀 I just believe artists still have more to offer besides this post-capitalistic fever dream of "meaning"
I'm not too much of an artist but I enjoyed this discussion and found myself able agree with most points but to be honest the interpretation/validity of abstract art in my opinion is as arbitrary and abstract as the art itself you might vaguely be able to infer certain ideas based on the usage of colors but what one person may process as sad another may see as comforting to me it feels like less of an emphasis on the intentional application of artistic skills to convey an idea and more of an emphasis on creative self-expression
I haven't even watched the video yet, but I'm feeling INCREDIBLY called out by the person in the bg who is styling that wig. I think that's the SAME wig I have, so seeing it while I procrastinate on styling my wig and instead watch videos on youtube feels like a sign lmao.
2:34 So, I draw anime style...and maybe it's just me because I'm perfectionist, but before I learnt to draw anime style I had to learn and get better at semirealism. Again maybe it's just me, but I was struggling a lot to simplify real life to make it look good in anime style but the reason I wanted to do anime style is because I wanted to do a webcomic and I'm not going to spent 3+ hours just drawing one character in semi-realism, but I had to learn semi-realism before anime to be able to fully understand how to simplify it to look good, so I don't know it's wild to me that people just immediately assume if your main artstyle is anime it automatically means you don't know how to draw other artstyles...
My "unpopular" art opinion: people should be allowed to draw whatever they want, they wanna draw only elfs. Power to them, only draw animals power to them. I honestly find it annoying people telling random artists, especially those who did not ask for a some sort of recommendation. Saying to draw something else, its the artist job to draw what you want, its what tgey want. Its even more annoying seeing people demand people to draw a certain thing, for example different races. I'm sorry but artist don't have to draw other races, much less different people with different skin colors. Art is supposed to allow self expression and they don't have to draw what they want. If you're commissioning an artist or if they're trying to be a professional artists, then yes they should draw different things. And can draw what you want (specifically an artist that is being commissioned), or if there asking for requests at what to draw, they don't have to draw what you want. It honestly gets tiring when being told what you should draw, or even demanded to by complete strangers who just want you to draw what they want. Even though they can easily just try doing it themselves or find an actual artist who draws what they want.
Schools like Cal-arts and such are not pay-to-win. The amount of students that go to those schools and take years, or sometimes never, get a job, are a huge %. The school itself doesn’t matter, just getting an education in some form is important, like super important. Your skills are what get you a job NOT what school you went to. Your education is the secondary thing company’s look at when they want to hire you.
My unpopular art opinion: i hate how children are depicted in animation. In the west they all have giant heads, giant eyes, and tiny bodies. Or they're animals or inanimate objects. In the east it's the same thing just with an anime style. I used to draw cartoons and then I started drawing anime style, but I could never emotionally invest in them because they just looked like toys. Then when I wanted to get better at art, I started to learn realistic portrait and gesture drawing. What made me fall in love and become emotionally attached to my work was drawing realistic looking children. From the chubby faces and missing teeth to the variety of proportions across the different ages, it just became so much more challenging, and consequently more fulfilling to get them to look right. And when they did, it felt like a real person came to life on the page. It's just a shame the same level of realism isn't applied to them in modern media. Because classical artwork goes to great lengths to depict humans with painstaking detail. There are so many amazing oil paintings that capture the subtle expressions of a child and it's something you don't really pay attention to until you see it in your own kids.
11:25 Came across an abstract art piece recently that was going for $8000 in a Manhattan gallery. The art? Four yellow uneven vertical lines on a white canvas. The lines don't even stretch the full height of the canvas. I'm pretty sure the canvas wasn't even painted, the artist just grabbed a fresh one, painted the lines on it in less than two minutes, and called it a day. That's supposed to be art? And someone with more money than sense will buy it? What even are we doing anymore?
10:44 ima say that a lot of that sentiment is a result of rigorous art programs being cut from schools. Also it makes me really uneasy when people rag on an art style like Abstract or contemporary art, because the last time an opinion like that was widely expressed it encapsulated things like expressionism and cubism and was called "Degenerate" by 1940s Fascists from Europe.
With the hoyo stuff, I think this is why the redesigns are good cause I love drawing diverse people and hoyo is severely lacking in the department so I like to change up the designs a bit when drawing fanart, but a lot of people in the fandom HATE redesigns (however I will say some redesigns are really boring and miss the whole point of redesigning hoyo characters)
About modern art, I somewhat agree, As a lot of “modern art” be shown in art museums now is like like A dude making a stack of buckets filled with sand fall, a literal banana peel stuck to a canvas, A pickle someone threw and it got stuck on the ceiling, banana peels on a ladder, a dude spreading ink around on a large piece of paper on the floor. None of this is meaningful, none of it has a reason, none of this fills you with a kind of emotion. It’s all just random stuff. How is it considered art?
contemporary art doesnt exist to fullfill your old fashioned beauty standards. All the pieces you mentioned have meaning if you actually bothered looking into it
Imo function/character based designs are a lot more interesting. I agree. I find it better to give an existing character an appearance where you can take into account what they do. That being said, if you come up with a cool design and can give it a character without compromising either, that is good. That's it. I don't agree with any of the other takes regarding anime (except the encouragement for experimentation)
Some people like cute stylized girls (anime) but *only* doing fanart of mostly mihoyo games gets boring. As you can see from my pfp, I draw in an anime-like style but I actuallu rarely draw fanart and its kinda hard for me to.
When ATSV/Encanto came out sooo many artists didn't know how to draw the black characters cause they didn't practice beforehand because it was “too hard” or “out of their comfort zone” or some other dumb excuse. Nobody wants to question why the default/popular art style that artists go for is pale skin and small/white facial features or thin bodies. Most artists have internalized prejudices but don't want to acknowledge or correct that bias, hobby or not.
No, it's because people are way too critical of how some artists draw minority characters. It's either "the color palette is too light" or "they look too stereotypical" or "they don't look accurate enough." People rarely criticize characters that are straight, white, able -bodied, etc, so people are more inclined to draw those characters. Maybe if people were more accepting of different art styles and artistic choices, more diverse characters would be drawn.
@@chynaanderson494 A few people being too eager with criticism isn't at all comparable to societal standards. It's absolutely true that many artists simply don't draw people who aren't pale/light and skinny, or at most slim thick or lean. I understand that people can be hard but it's very disingenuous to say that any character or people who isn't part of this beauty standard can't be drawn because of that. Please don't try to 'justify' people's hardheadedness.
I agree. As a black woman one of my guilty pleasures was always drawing pale anime characters but never drawing from my own real life experience. Which includes an array of diversity. This was one of the reasons why my art was never improving. I wasn't drawing for me. Eventually when I decided to challenge myself to draw more people of color my art got better.
@@chynaanderson494People ALWAYS say this, and I just think it's a very weak excuse. People have been reluctant to draw POC characters long before this became a phenomenon. If anything, the reason why this has happened is because the resources we learn to draw and improve from have implicit racial biases based off of eurocentric beauty standards. Even I didn't start off drawing POC characters, or remember using that as reference early on. Also, if people really give that much of a fuck about what Twitter says or something, just.... don't post it? You are allowed to do that, y'know. There are many colour pick resources for darker skintones, and as long as you're not literally giving someone minstrel lips or making them 5 shades lighter, I highly doubt that'll ever happen.
Yeah legit People online can be flamed for anything, if I said that as a reason to not learn like. anatomy then that's clearly a flimsy excuse but somehow it is accepted when drawing minorities
I think drawing is supposed to be fun, no matter the age, race, level, or experience. So many people tend to look at art thinking that the only thing the artist seeks is to please the audience, but if the artist believes that their art is genuinely important to them than I don't see why others should criticize it so much. If a 13 year old likes to draw manga characters, or realism, and they spend a lot of time doing it, I think we should let them do what they love, and if they want to post it, they can. We're not forced to comment or like or whatever to their account, so why stop just to make fun of them? Another example would be that if we look online, and we stumble across the most gorgeous, mesmerizing piece of art we have ever seen, and then look at the description, and it states: ''14 year old artist'', then suddenly people find oh so many flaws. If that piece would have been created by a famous artist, then the same exact art would have been put in a museum. Well, all that just to say that we should let young artists do what they love, and stop judging them by their artworks.
as both avid manga and manhwa reader, i think it depends on the comic itself. i certainly see more mangas with good anatomy basic (and deliberately simplify it) than in manhwas. but the good manhwas are usualy masterpieces themselves
@@carnngi ehh not really. I get what you mean by that but when ppl said manhwa style, ppl will mostly think about the webtoon True Beauty-like art style. It's a very distinct look because it reflects the korean beauty standards which is very far from your typical mainstream japanese "anime" art style (and very different from japanese beauty standard)
29:00 personally, if you can't give a rounded critique to younger artists or any artist asking for a critique, you suck at giving critiques. like tit for tat that's a garbage opinion.
the art teacher telling you to stop drawing anime depends on the situation, if you’re just copying the drawing you find on pinterest and not varying it up then yes, you’re not going to progress or get good marks in your art class but also anime is an art style that should be valued more in art circles, especially those who vary their styles
I want to comment on the section of modern art. In my opinion, the problem of modern art is the economic and commercial side of the art exhibition(?) industry. A fair number of modern art work is usually (or from what I've personally seen) done with little to no technique behind it and somehow is valued higher than other works seen at an exhibition. While a piece can have wonderful and intriguing meaning behind it but is objectively unappealing, the pricing of them is completely unfair and unbalanced. I do not have examples of cost comparisons, but with what has occurred over the years in this particular industry, I would assume this happens often enough.
not a single opinion was had here, genuine fence sitters. Theres no point of this video if your hottest take is tap water hot. good video idea, but both of you sound scared of saying anything
Saying that people who dont include all races in their drawings are racist is just ridiculous to me. Coming from a person that tries to include everyone in their art, just let artists draw what they want to draw. Its childish to try to force everyone into what you want them to do. The only thing that would make them racist is whitewashing characters intentionally. But sticking to what you know because you're comfortable with it (and not looking to improve) isn't racist at all. Only blatant ignorance is. I especially hate when people call beginner artists racist for doing this too, like calm down they just fucking started. I understand that throwing around accusations on the internet is just normal at this point- but can we quit normalising it instead?
Is it wrong for a company to have an artstyle throughout their games? people arent complaining about zelda characters looking the same. Sure Hoyoverse does have really similair characters way too often but i think thats more because of them leaning heavily into fanservice.
To be my beef with anime art is that a decently huge amount of people that spans from basement dwelling coomer degens and fojos all the way to complete normies sorta view anime art as the standard for good, anything diverting away from that to be “not good” like how when mob psycho (one of the best shows of all time.. period) was criticized for looking bad, because the characters didn’t look “anime enough” it’s a space that sort of worships a certain specific look and puts it on a pedestal (unironically, this is why most anime looks forgettable, because genuinely most anime of A given decade just straight up look the same) Personally I don’t care for anime-ish designs, at heady I find them neat, at worse, they’re copy pasted, plain, and boring, I just hate the culture around the anime style more then the anime style itself because I don’t care
sometimes when i see those "art has to have meaning" comments my heart seizes up. does me drawing attractive women from the shoulders up wearing no expression not count as art? it never fails to make me laugh. i just be drawing shi ! and no one can take that away from me
I mean, that does have meaning. The meaning here is just "this is a picture of an attractive woman [also impliying what the artist considers attractive]". Same as the sentence, "the boy picked up the ball" means something. Sometimes "meaning" is just really basic stuff that no one consciously thinks about, but is still there
@@sofastuffing yea fairs. I don't think everything has to have some deep elaborate message behind it to mean Something. to me art is what the human mind and hands create, no matter how simple or complex. there's something beautiful about looking at children's art, as much as there is beauty in analyzing a piece someone spent hours on. Beyond that idrc ill be drawing my girls n noone can stop me
Reading the comments, and something I find interesting is the assumption that a lot of the anime style critique comes from people who don't understand or generally hate anime. It's possible to enjoy drawing in the style and also be critical of certain aspects of it. I will say that the person who made the 'anime is an incestuous style' comment is someone who has worked in the Japanese and Western animation industries, so it's more of an observation born from being quite knowledgeable and deep in the field and not otherwise. Maybe they could have worded it differently tho hahaha
def agree
I think what needs to happen is just an understanding of why anime style or "cal-arts" style, or Disney style, or comic book style ect exists as it is. The point is to make something that can be animated or made into a comic quickly and efficiently where the emphasis is more on storytelling. It's been honed down to a sort of system which especially helps when working as a team.
The issue happens when young people come into art and just want to draw from stories that they like. An extreme example is the kid who only knows how to draw batman. They aren't thinking about why the style exists in its current form, they just want to draw what they currently like. A good art teacher should encourage them to try other things, not because that style is bad but because it's not an efficient way of learning about aspects of art that don't have to do with animation or storytelling. Just making people aware of the "why" their chosen art style is the way it is will hopefully get them thinking about art in a more well-rounded way.
This also applies to the conversation about modern/abstract art.
the "incestuous artstyle" comment/logic is just so weird to me
like, I kind of understand it in the sense of variety, but if what they meant is stylization that drifts away from reality...
Out of all the art I see, not even 20% of them are ultra stylized, and I think that's very boring. Which makes me think: if every artstyle was purely "breeded" out of your interpretation of physical reality, everything would be a very limited semi-realistic artstyle, which honestly it's what the art community reality is feeling like to me rn.
what I would say is, BREED YOUR ARTSTYLE INCESTUOUSLY IDC, add your own twist to it, and beware of basics of how things interact in the physical reality, BUT PLEASE, PLEAAASE don't just have a realistic artstyle that you use 100% of the time, that's so boring. Treat your artstyle like humanity treated bulldogs, cause at least your artstyle won't have to live as a living being, that's the fun of it.
^ adding to my previous reply, I think it's pretty clear that the one saying those things above is an artist who's whole spark for art was stabilized by _adding magic shrooms to_ and/or _drifting away from_ reality, and having experimental fun with it.
The whole reason I was charmed by art was the fact that it _wasn't_ reality, and that people could just do psychedelic stuff with it and MAKE IT _INTO_ reality.
So like, by saying that you're basically telling an art shroomer to tone down the shroom and face reality. Would get way more burnt out and depressed if I had to do that
@jo-flowbmoonsmell8564 I mean, if you look into the background of every great contemporary artist presenting their beginnings, they pretty much all drew either anime or superheroes from marvel or DC. It's not that big of a crisis that some people make it. If you don't start by drawing something you are interested, you lose interest afterwards and don't get anywhere. Some people will start by drawing cars all the time, or flowers, and that's all they'll draw, and it's not bad. Drawing what you want to draw is the only path to individuality. And frankly, there is a lot to learn from drawing the style of a comic book or animation that you like, I knew how to stylize and experiment in different ways at a much younger age because I just tried to copy and learn different styles of shows that I liked and I became way ahead of a lot of people who stopped doing it because teachers told them to. It's simply a field difference, my painting teacher always told me to stop doing it, my animation teacher told me that it was the best thing I did.
my unpopular art opinion is that people who say that all anime artstyles look the same don't have eyes
They just dont watch anime actually
@@herssel1145 literally or theyve just seen clips of some weird anime made in like 2012. plus the reason why anime artstyles look """"the same"""" according to them, is bc anime is ANIMATED and you cant perfectly recreate the mangaka's artstyle (and all mangaka's art styles are different btw) while also keeping the animation fluid and consistent. its so dummb i swaear
@@edgarallanpoe209 yep. Also it is really risty to create an anime with different art style since the public might not really like it, wich even causes some of them to sell really bad to the point of the studio to close. Still, even the ones that are the most famous have really different art styles (like One Piece, DBZ and Naruto)
This right here. There are differences, even if they're subtle.
@herssel1145 yea that's why some ppl can't tell the difference
I feel like people are way to worried what others are doing with their art and need to just start focusing on their own art journey.
Agreed I found a lot of these to be really petty? Like the one saying they will unfollow artists who only draw fanart.. like.. idk, that’s your choice but personally I’d never let something like that get to me eso if I really like the art itself. We all know drawing fanart is a way that bring artists attention for their work
you took the words outta my mouth...
the art community needs to chill and let others enjoy their art.
This!!
I 100% agree
To say anime is a "style" isn't wrong, but it also is a very very broad style (it's more of a genre). You won't confuse for example, the work of Horikoshi with the work of Takeshi Obata or Aidairo or Junji Ito or Demizu Posuka. Like any other simplistic style born from caricature/cartoon, anime/manga style is limiting, but that's the point. It definitely doesn't limit how far you can go though. To say that it all looks the same and is limiting and says you have "no skill", is just a terribly blindsided statement. That'd just be looking at 1 side of the thing and pretending that it's all there is to see, it's choosing to ignore that there actually really good styles and works in the anime art genre.
By saying that it shows "0 skill" or that it's "style incest" just shows how much you don't understand. That's actually just saying that you don't know how to make it your own, how to take it and go far with it. That kind of comment is just really maddening, because clearly, they don't understand a thing about how art styles or genres work.
this is exactly what i was thinking, there is so much variation in the anime genre and to just boil it down to the style hoyoverse uses is very... strange? hoyoverse is so newly popular and while its art might be "generic" (for lack of a better word) its absolutely not a representation of the genre as a whole and actually does have some unique aspects to itself as well. there are tons of famous anime artists who have extremely unique styles and the genre as a whole has had some really interesting trend development... not to mention all the smaller independent artists who have their own amazing twists building on the genre. just because the style is limiting for one person doesnt mean its limiting for everyone.
While it's true that the 'anime art style' isn't a monolith, there are outliers and trends in it just as much as anything else. Artists like Osamu Tezuka, Junji Ito, Imaishi, Sushio, Hirohiko Araki, take, Naoki Urasawa etc etc are great artists that show the full diversity of anime art styles BECAUSE they reference and take influence from other mediums. Yes, 'anime' isn't a singular style and it's very diverse, but it's diverse BECAUSE of the people who actually reference from real life and not...just other anime. Which is what people are critiquing.
exactly this. you can’t be looking at CSM and HXH and tell me that they have the same style.
I'm just going to add this, I think that "Manga" has a wide variety in style. Not so much when it comes to getting an anime, because most mangas that get animated don't get the same treatment and aren't always consistent with the style of the manga. Which gives a lot of animes a same-ish type feeling. (Which has been talked about a bit recently - Isekai's suffer heavily from this) Not that it's a bad thing, but when you get people who only know anime styles from literally anime, it can have the impression that it all looks the same.
Yeah, I had a lot of art teachers that I saw the studies of, and it did not compare to the level of study japanese artists have before they go into the animation or manga industry.
I never thought about how hobbyists and professionals are sharing the same spaces online now. It sure explains a lot of drama
HA! and don't forget the non-artists or trolls that stoke the fires. socmedia is an ocean you never know what kinda people are out there.
Honestly the whole child prodigy thing, I mostly ignore those because they fuck with my ego and I dont want to spill my poison
It's great how people share my toxic mindset less go lmao(😭)
It means they've been practicing longer and harder than you
@@AUSWQPCV I guess but I'll never admit that until I'm satisfied with myself
@@AUSWQPCV I think thats just an assumption, some people just improve faster than others, Id like to add art is subjective Ive seen people upset when they see child prodigies when, imo they have better art
I got a headache from seeing similar art styles being described as "incest between styles" people should learn how to study language before criticizing art
Edit: I made this take at 3am cause "incest of styles" is the most ridiculous thing to call hoyo's generic art style which is made to be marketable to any anime fan despite being made in China, where many artists have more diverse art styles. Most anime artists study from life but have similar styles because they follow the rules of what anime is supposed to look like. There are so many subtleties to the aesthetics of the anime art style it feels rude to call it incestuous.
I was definitely taken aback after hearing that lol
I feel nauseous after hearing that because what the frick-
such a weird phrase 😭😭 there are so many better ways to describe what they meant for sure
It leaves a strange impression for sure. Gives me the impression that person is like,, 15 maybe.
saying a group of things or people is 'incestuous' is actually a common phrase, especially with older generations. It essentially means that the group only deals with themselves or itself and doesn't allow outsiders.
eg. "the world of classical music is very hard to break into unless your a child of someone who has already made it. It's an incestuous community."
Hope this comment helps.
The part where Anna talks about how "art school was most useful in terms of exposing her to things she wouldn't have sought out on her own" and how "she didn't know what she didn't know if she were entirely self direct her studies" resonated with me because after graduating I was thinking that I didn't learn much but then I realized that now I knew for sure what wasn't my thing thanks to that exposure to different forms of art and design, and it was helpful. Also opportunity to communicate with people interested in different forms of art and seeing them at work may contribute to developing new ideas you could've not come up with being in your own bubble.
I think that more kids nowadays are getting better at art earlier than it's expected because of two things. Time and resources. The kids on the internet have all the tutorials and concepts like color theory and perspective in the world available to them, and they have so much more time to devote to their craft. The only thing they really have to worry about (at least most kids) is their schoolwork and even then they can still draw at school. Not to mention they already have the built-in imagination and energy to draw all the time!
So, if you're an older artist with the same timeframe of drawing as a younger artist and your skill levels are at completely different (assuming you both have the same goalpoint in mind like realism or vibrant cohesive palettes) just remember that everyone learns at different paces and you probably don't have the same time and energy as the younger artist does.
Like I've been drawing since middle school and I have friends who are younger than me who ,objectively, draw better than I do but we both have different tools, inspirations and goals for our art so it doesn't bug me that much anymore
Hey can we stop shaming artists drawing what they want to draw I'm getting sick of this shit.
An artist, by definition, is "a person engaged in an activity related to creating art, practicing the arts, or demonstrating an art." Art is, by definition, "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." This incorporates both art for the sake of art and art with meaning behind it. Both of these fall under the definition. Both are valid.
Stop gatekeeping artists! The point is literally to express ourselves and/or *have fun*, and as a community it really sucks how we have a bit of a problem with toxicity online (To be fair, it is a negativity bias, but takes that are becoming more commonplace are fucking wild; What the hell is "incest between styles?" Tell me you don't know how artists create an original artstyle without telling me you don't know how artists create an original artstyle). Given that we should primarily be a safe space for artists of all skill levels, we should be building each other up instead of trying to invalidate one another.
I am NOT talking about constructive criticism by the way; I want to make that as clear as possible. I am specifically addressing all the gatekeeping. Telling someone they aren't an artist because they're drawing... shit differently than you..?
You can do art for you, you don't owe anybody anything and if you want to aim for a professional level? Go ahead! Wanna vent your emotions through painting? Sounds great! Want to draw for the sake of drawing? HELL YEAH! Want to shame someone for doing any of these? *HELL NO!*
right like GODD yall r acting like anime killed ur grandma shut up and do ur still lifes that you keep talking about so much
BASED
Nobody said that people who like drawing stereotypical anime characters aren't real artists. They were just saying they thought the artstyle was ugly and that one of the reasons it has become so ugly is because it borrows from itself too much and therefore has lost touch with how reality looks and become unrecognisable. It borrowing from itself is being compared to incest in a metaphor.
@@FrankTheAmazing Two things
1) When talking about the 'aren't real artists' thing, I was referring to specific comments starting at and between 10:09-10:34, not specifically to stereotypical anime artists. I guess I didn't separate it enough to avoid confusion, that's my bad.
2) I get the whole gist about the metaphor.. but incest is the worst way to put it. Not only does it immediately give it a negative connotation, but plenty of genres intentionally lose touch with reality in exchange for aesthetic appeal and it feels like exaggerated hate (Especially when people start yapping about how such art takes no effort) and then to expand on that artstyle people take what they like about it or other art in the same genre and make their own version. When I say it's a wild take, it's because of the implications of the term itself.
(By the way! I do have trouble communicating tone through text so my apologies if this came off passive aggressive in any way! D:)
That might apply to hobby artists who can do whatever they want but if you're serious about being an artist and improving, relying on the anime 'style' as a crutch is very much a bad thing. Think about how many artists complain that they can't draw darker skin, or older people or different faces, or anything other than the most stick thin of characters because it doesn't fit their "style". Think about how many people get their characters whitewashed or drawn off model or even have commissions rejected because it doesn't fit that artist's anime 'style'. It's not even that anime inherently doesn't allow those things, because there are plenty of shows and character designers that does (Satoshi Kon and Sushio off the top of my mind) but it's because they can reference things that aren't just anime and actively work to make things fit into their style.
The same can't be said about people who exclusively reference other anime and uses it as an excuse to not improve themselves. It stagnates your ability and the range of things you can draw. Look at all the same faces in shit like Hoyolab's character designs and Love Live. The classic "Anime art style" and character designs are just boring to look at and this feeding off itself to look like the same sanitized pretty anime girls is then likened to incest as a metaphor.
And every time someone critiques this, people LOVE to come out of the woodworks to talk about 'but actually, we should be able to draw whatever we want'. Yeah you can. Doesnt mean people still cant criticize it or comment on a trend that actively harms your growth as an artist.
Everything cartoony is Anime to some people.. Hell, even my scruffy, no line art, saturated colours in your face artstyle gets packaged into "Anime" by the wide majority SIMPLY because it's not overrendered and realistic. Hell, depending on what work - I'd label my art more abstract than anime sometimes... I swear, it's the same with clothing styles and "cores" too. Not everything should be able to be defined with one word, not every style has to be labelled.
As for soulless modern art - this is incredibly anecdotal but my grandmother is an abstract artist and she just did it for fun. Eventually got some paintings in a local gallery and I'm proud of her for it. At first i didn't particularly like abstract art too, but the beauty in it is that - when done right, everyone can see different things in it.
My stuff is in a semi realistic riot-like style, and people still think it's anime😂
ur art is fucking ass
I think you guys referred to genshin way too much when talking about anime , there are plenty of diverse styles.
Paprika
cowboy bebop
berserk
dragon ball
Hunter x Hunter
ghibli
Persona
panty and stocking
Vagabond
One Piece
Danganronpa
Just to name a few examples.
Hoyo art isn't representative of Anime as a whole .
Exactly
Ghibli doesn't only have one style.
Kinda hurt me to see you named the different series…and not the series’ artists but that’s just me ig
@@Aesos3429how are you gonna name an artist for a show? Do you mean the studio because name the singular Genshin artist please
Don't forget JoJo's Bizare Adventures. It has an extremely unique and detailed art style
I absolutely hate it when people say 'the anime artstyle' because you want to look at me dead in the eye and tell me that chainsaw man and lucky star look like the same art style
I will look you straight in the eye and tell you that anime that doesn’t looks like other plain anime are the exceptions and not the rule, by n large anime has homogenized look too it
i feel insane thank u for saying this 😭 Like animanga is stylistically homogenous and it wouldnt kill anyone to point out the obvious. the differences between works in animanga are miniscule on average + the differences are usually among outliers. u can like anime and draw it but lets not lie to ourselves @@doctordice2doctordice210
personally i believe that people should be able to draw or do whatever they want, and it can still be art. there isnt a restriction on what is or isnt art, whether its anime or modern or whatever else. just let people do what they want, art is about self expression...
As someone who's art leans towards anime (At least that's what some of my real life acquaintances tell me when they see my art for the first time) I don't think the anime style is limiting. It depends on how the artist approaches their art.
At first, some artist may look like they're just "copying" the anime style and it looks the same. But some are doing so for studying or that it's the art style of their favorite artist and they're "copying" it to learn how their art works and slowly developed their own style. I don't think that's a bad thing all the time! People might just be a bit impatient X,D.
When I first started doing art, I was inspired by anime. I liked Precure, Aikatsu, and Pokémon. I remember I would take screenshots of almost every single frame of the Pokémon anime to use as reference.
I never thought early on that I could use real life references or that I could make my style more painterly or something. So I did limit myself since I was trying so hard to make my style similar to Pokémon since I had a Pokémon Trainer OC and I felt that was necessary. I did eventually stop doing this though and my style slowly evolved into a painterly style after being exposed to more artists on Social Media and I began trying to put my own flare with my art and not to limit myself so much.
I just dislike how that one person said anime style is like "incest between styles" it just felt disturbing. I understand if they don't like the anime style since people are entitled to their own opinions and their opinion is valid. But that was not a nice comment, they could've just say they look the same without using that word :,)...
Indeed specially when yes there are generic anime styles there is also a big diversity of styles (specially in manga I feel) you can see multiple styles.
Personally when I am trying to improve my own art I grab multiple artists I adore (being internet artists of like manga/anime art) and simply note down the things that I like about those style and create "my Frankenstein" with the things I enjoyed and just change it as I go.
It feels like so many people are just entitled when it comes to art that if looks a way they don't like their first instinct is insult it (like with the incest comments🤢)
I really don’t get what they mean by it being “ limiting” though. If the artist has committed to drawing in a “anime” style and could drawing everything you could imagine in that same style, would going behind that “limit”mean starting to draw realism? But the artist doesn’t want to do that.
And IKR about the phrase of calling it “incestuous”? Like in another reply people were going off about how supposedly “common” it is to call what they mean that and it’s like… no? Not at all? I have never heard that phrase describe similar styles by any professional artist or art teacher. Seems like another recent chronically online term that came around from people not liking a specific thing so bad that they gave it a name with bad connotations and ran with it. Like the term “pro shipper” art even if the artist doesn’t draw ships.
By next week all the art tiktok community will be calling any style they don’t like this. 💀
precure mention!!
yeah i agree with the above replies
Idk if this unpopular but i think that we should stop shaming ppl for having "repetitive" art styles and same face syndrome. There is a diference between recommending young artist that want to have an art career to experiment more on styles, body types and distinct faces. and bullying 12 year old's because they're pink haired anime tsundere girl is too similar to they're yandere blue haired girl. Not everyone wants to take art serious, and is not ok to shame them for that.
Unrelated to the topic of the video, seeing how slowly you draw/go through the process in your speedpaint is weirdly reassuring. I've been trying to speed up my art for years and get so frustrated when I take a long time, so finally seeing someone who isn't like 'look at this thing I drew in five minutes' is comforting
honestly the art community needs to start minding their business !! 😭 like why are we mad that people like drawing in a more "anime" (which is a very broad not that good way of describing the style) style. people will draw what they wanna draw and getting mad at people that draw the way they do isnt gonna do anything
29:04 I nearly choked at this comment
As a self-aware beginner, I ask the skilled artists out there, please don't blast amateurs. I can usually tell what's wrong with my work, I just don't have the talent/experience to fix it yet. I know my art is "bad" in some areas, but I'm still proud of what I am doing right and the progress I'm making, so let us newbies be happy with our work. We're working hard to improve, after all.
My opinion is that artists who are closed minded towards unconventional ideas like modern or interpretive art have missed the whole point of art.
Art is a space that makes you reflect on another person's point of view. Even when you create realistic piece, it's still your interpretation.
I dont agree with people dismissing someone's artistic pov just because they dont get it.
Sometime even, the whole point is to get a reaction out of you, anger , disappointment, etc. Maybe by getting mad at it we just proved their point. hahahah
I love this style of video, it gives me stuff to think about long after it's over (similarly to art that requires more thought than just what you see on first glance!). Early 20s and graduating from art school is a very interesting time to reflect on art and how our relationship to it has changed since being teens on the internet, honestly it can be kinda scary a lot of the time, like staring into the void a bit 😭 But your discussion made me want to talk about these kinds of things with my own friends rather than shying away from it, so thank you! :)
the one "anime art isnt art" still makes me feel 😠
"Animation in Japanese is not art >:("
@@amitypride2429anime is also a style btw
They’re unpopular opinions for a reason
I dunno most of the people in the third segment had a point imo.
As a person who used to draw cats, then later started to draw humans, being told that drawing anime style is limiting, stereotypical and templated by an art teacher makes my blood boil. Yes, the message is supposed to be about exploring other styles, but to achieve that, we should stop degrading it or shaming it. There is a bunch of things to learn about techniques if we just stop dissing on it and observe what makes it a really endearing or popular.
reg anime art style and teachers: I think the only time where the teacher's are in the right abt telling their students to not draw anime, is when the student favors their current preferred art style over the art assignment. Like if the student pretty much ignores the point of the assignment of for example... draw a face that follows the average proportions, and instead just draws their fav anime character with massive eyes and a single dot for a nose, then obviously the teacher would be bothered. Because it isn't about anime style per say, it's about students ignoring their tasks and just draw whatever they want to. Those are times where I am on the teachers side.
THAT SAID, I have heard enough stories of teachers drawing over/tearing apart drawings or even disrespect students in front of the whole class for the dumbest reasons. I've heard of teachers who permanently ruined someones love and will to draw and make art just because they like to draw anime style. And in those cases I am on the students side. You can point out things for someone they need to work on without treating them like shit.
The thing about fine art, modern art, contemporary art is that yes, there's a bit of a hump to actually get into it and start understanding it, and there is some gatekeeping around it and I do not blame people if they feel a bit alienated.
That said if I were to give a comparison of why you might want to consider giving it some more of your time. Internet memes, if you have ever had the experience of trying to explain internet memes to someone, how self-referential it can be, some of the history, subcultures, and lexicon around it. Then that might give you a bit of an idea why you might be having a bit of a tough time with some art movements. You are stepping into the middle of some ongoing shenanigans, sometimes an art piece is a shitpost.
i learned a lot from drawing jojos characters. the art style accentuates anatomy a lot, and i could learn from araki's triumphs and his mistakes. drawing fanart can also be a really good step into learning how to come up with creative concepts - you already have a "base" story and character to work with.
Great video, adds a lot of needed nuance to an already massively discussed conversation. Also love the art!
regarding the very first opinion, i see where people who got annoyed at their teachers for saying "anime style" bad come from, bc a. that is objective, so say a specific style is wrong is .... just wrong. but also b. the teacher wont get their point across just by putting down the things the students like (or what i assume what is their point) i ge that teachers have to many students and not enough time, but i think a student would really benefit from having a genuine conversation on why their teacher would want them to try other styles.
i personally dont think i ever want to teach at an high school, (i did study for that, but i think i much rather teach outside of school to people who genuinly want to learn) but if i were to teach and had a student who really likes anime i would have 2 main points to discuss with them, and considering that im sure multiple students are into anime/manga yearly, id say investing in some research before hand would help them understand,
so i would 1. explain to the student why exploring other styles and drawing from life is important and i would try and see if i could find big names in anime/manga who have shown to have done this either in their published sketches or in their works. 2. and that i do want them to keep drawing anime/manga style as well, just not for school assigments, bc that is what they enjoy, and i dont take that away from them, i would tell them to explore different artist in that style and study them to help explore and develop their own style eventually. i dont want them to eventually get discouraged from art all together. and i feel like if they keep on making art for themselves they will either get really good in this style or eventually look at other styles anyway.
aside from this, i feel like a lot more people would enjoy art more if their experience at school were more encouraging
On talking about modern or abstract art I feel like it is up to interpretation, when I was applying to an art school a while ago my mom took me to an art museum to look at some of the pieces, and a lot of it was modern or abstract! When there we played almost a game of trying to figure out what it meant before reading the plaque about what it was actually representing, I feel like in order to understand modern or abstract art you need to experience it in a place where your already given the context to really go through what the thought process was for the artist or just try and figure out what if means. Like you said, all art has meaning even what seems pointless and while I was at the museum a place I thoroughly thought I was going to get nothing out of I learned a lot about how I can put messages and themeing in my art without telling the viewer directly. There's always something to learn with art even stuff we think is pointless.
Art is your subjective emotional experience and when modern art requires a dissertation to "explain" what it means, it destroys the purpose of art. In fact, if you have to be told how to experience a modern art piece like a blob of paint, it's just wrong. The modern art movement is run by galleries, auction houses, and the ultra rich. It is a money laundering scheme for the ultra rich. There are plenty of YT videos which explain why a blob of paint can sell for $100 million USD.
@@asimian8500 since i wrote this comment yeah i deffinitly agree, I feel like the first art, maybe a few after might have been original (though not worth the price) and everything after that was just unoriginal and boring, a cash grab.
im fine with abstract art except for the prices. I saw this one piece where it was a blank, blue canvas selling for $4000. like what is going on 😭
It's crazy how uncreative the real world museum art is than on the internet. Getting their paintings sold for THOUSANDS for a simple painting ANYONE can do. It doesn't even have to be a painting like the banana taped to a wall. 😭
Money laundering
@@pinksywedarnoc8017 Even though I personally don't like the giant canvases of one solid color, not everyone can do them.
The thing about the big canvas with one color of paint is that, when you see them in real life, the paint is spread so evenly that it looks machine made/ it hides the texture of the canvas. (I don't remember the actual artist's name) but that's why their art is impressive, it's about the technique and patience it took.
@@juli5945 See I would agree if it wasn't the fact that a good chunk of famous artists like this actually use a whole slew of interns to make the art and the 'artist' that has the name slapped on doesn't actually have much if any contact with the art piece itself (example - Damien Hirst who is notorious for having his assistant's do his paintings, Jewlers make his famous Diamond skull and another company to taxidermy all his shock value art pieces). Hell a lot of em don't have any care at akll and will literally throw paint at a canvas and make up some bs message that makes the big bucks feel important. That's really the only reason this no-effort stuff sells for such big money - marketing and a brand name.
I hope you're not talking about International Klein Blue canvas. Because Yves Klein the artist had to do TONS of experiments to turn that "blue" into a color while keeping its original qualities. He basically invented that color.
I believe art schools are very useful but when I attended hearing teachers constantly say we could’ve learned this on UA-cam for free is very nerve wracking and made me rethink on whether I should be there or not and if I’m wasting time and money
This was so fun to listen to :)
Just found the channel from tablet reviews and I’ve watched three vids back to back
I don’t really have much to add to the convo but I do want to give props to y’all for honestly giving one of the most measured responses when it comes to the topic of Modern Art that I haven’t seen in a long while👏🏾
I would genuinely pay for y’all to make a podcast I love this so much
This was very fun to listen to please do more!
Definitely some hot takes, but I really enjoyed listening to you two talking :)
Whenever someone say anime style they always mean the typical moe art while blatantly ignoring how different animes styles from each other are. Like Junji Ito is a big example and majority of the shounen anime like my hero academia don't even fall into the typical moe art category.
Anime definitely has a lot of variety, and many manga authors have a very distinctive style, but that doesn't change the fact that anime art can be super repetitive. I don't think people are talking about the style of Junji Ito or MHA when they say that, more so about the endless flood of anime that is constantly getting produced, and the huge amount of online artists that do similar anime art using the same techniques as everyone else in the community.
bro this video helped me clean my room. pls make a podcast
People who really do think that 'Anime art style is all the same!" really, truly I think have bothered to do enough research. While yes, I do know that there are some anime/manga art styles that can be similar to one another. But sometimes, this is often the case when they are made under the same Studio.
10:09 this is genuinely the worst take in the entire video I think, and I find it ridiculous that some people actually agree with it. If drawing/painting (or in other words) making art, doesn't make you an artist then what does? How popular your art is? How 'good' it is? At what point do you decide that someone finally meets the qualifications to be an artist outside of simply making art? When they do it professionally? Some of my favourite artists do art as nothing more than a hobby, yet create some of the best art I've seen, why do they not deserve the title of an artist?
The entire take feels outdated and stupid. It doesn't matter what metric you decide, because the only proper way to know if someone is an artist, is if they make art. Just because it isn't art you deem 'good enough' doesn't mean it isn't art.
I hate stupid takes like this. They do nothing for the community and in general add nothing of worth to a discussion besides unnecessary discourse and a 'holier than thou' attitude.
Side note, I really like the mini vlog at the end! It’s like a breath of fresh air haha
One of my 10B unpopular art opinions is That people have to sometimes keep their blind mouth shut about art styles or types they do not know anything about
Anime/manga/webtoon/comic artists (my people) have to shut up about realistic or modern art and the reverse goes too
i actually really love art with deep storytelling, but i struggle so much trying to create it, and it seems just easier to design things :'D
Anime styles are definitely a thing to me, and I do appreciate the changes between an anime artist and other, many have some thing in common but for the love of god.......Everyone creates their style, give one personal touch here and there and I can tell after sooooo many years that those lil changes do have impact.
I do agree though, as an artist AND ex genshin player, genshin impact negatively changed my artstyle for a time and now I and again taking joy in drawing different things, like my pets and the plants at my city parks, and doing cartoony portraits of people I know well.
A personal tip because this saved my drawings, if anyone feels that their faces are getting a bit of ``same face syndrome´´, try drawing older people, doesn´t matter, but drawn them also from different races and body type, that fat bald white man that is always smiling, the old black lady that is wise due to her age and studies, the grumpy asian shopkeeper that complains about the heat, those kind of people are people I get along almost on a daily basis here, friends and faces I know since I was little, and I bet there is people like that close to you. I´m not sure if it will help you, but im secure you will start loving it and even give your more typical animey draws some spice. Keep trying and you will end doing it as part of your journey.
Personal unpopular (idk though since I rarely socialise with people outside of my immediate circle) opinion of mine: No. Hoyoverse did not "ruin your style". Your lack and inability to take a character design and translate it to your own personal style with your personal headcanons of a character imbued into how you draw the character is what ruined your style. This is like if I looked at my JJBA phase of art and said that ruined my style. It would be untrue because the issue is specifically the fact I was not able to take the characters and add my personal flare to the art and was just drawing like a poor man's Araki.
You can draw inspiration from something like genshin's characters and make your own spin on the characters. There are many artists who do so and still retain their own personal unique style despite using these designs. You just lack the general skill needed to do so in a way that doesn't just take the style hoyoverse has and use it one to one as a blueprint rather than allowing your style act as the blueprint for how you translate a design or character.
i feel that just drawing one type of person can do so bad for your journey in art even as a hobbyist, i noticed that when the new spiderverse movie came out and, even if there were many gorgeus fanart, there were a lot o artists who liked the movie but drew hobie, pavitr and even miles so wrong, lightining their skin or taking away their features (drawing small noses, etc)
True, I saw that happen with Miguel since he became really popular
The funny thing to me about the frustration with Hoyo artstyle is that yeah, its repetitive, it can be frustrating sometimes, and has other flaws, but at the end of the day i still would pick it over some other "anime styles" purely because their color palletes are so good and one thing i love more than anything is looking at pretty colors lmao.
I really appreciate the thoughtful conversation! The bit about modern art was so funny to me because I've always been of the opinion that it's worth studying in the same way that we should study the history of leeches as a legitimate medical practice 💀 I just believe artists still have more to offer besides this post-capitalistic fever dream of "meaning"
My unpopular art opinion is that this video is very interesting and well made, and you make some great points
This was so good! Was a pleasant listen
I'm not too much of an artist but I enjoyed this discussion and found myself able agree with most points but to be honest the interpretation/validity of abstract art in my opinion is as arbitrary and abstract as the art itself you might vaguely be able to infer certain ideas based on the usage of colors but what one person may process as sad another may see as comforting to me it feels like less of an emphasis on the intentional application of artistic skills to convey an idea and more of an emphasis on creative self-expression
ok but this thumbnail>>>>>
I haven't even watched the video yet, but I'm feeling INCREDIBLY called out by the person in the bg who is styling that wig. I think that's the SAME wig I have, so seeing it while I procrastinate on styling my wig and instead watch videos on youtube feels like a sign lmao.
I miss being “the drawing kid”
That feeling was the best ❤
The internet destroyed that
And AI eradicated the soul.
8:51 not even just that but the DRAWING of a comic page is so different than of a single pic 😭
2:34 So, I draw anime style...and maybe it's just me because I'm perfectionist, but before I learnt to draw anime style I had to learn and get better at semirealism. Again maybe it's just me, but I was struggling a lot to simplify real life to make it look good in anime style but the reason I wanted to do anime style is because I wanted to do a webcomic and I'm not going to spent 3+ hours just drawing one character in semi-realism, but I had to learn semi-realism before anime to be able to fully understand how to simplify it to look good, so I don't know it's wild to me that people just immediately assume if your main artstyle is anime it automatically means you don't know how to draw other artstyles...
My "unpopular" art opinion: people should be allowed to draw whatever they want, they wanna draw only elfs. Power to them, only draw animals power to them. I honestly find it annoying people telling random artists, especially those who did not ask for a some sort of recommendation. Saying to draw something else, its the artist job to draw what you want, its what tgey want.
Its even more annoying seeing people demand people to draw a certain thing, for example different races. I'm sorry but artist don't have to draw other races, much less different people with different skin colors. Art is supposed to allow self expression and they don't have to draw what they want.
If you're commissioning an artist or if they're trying to be a professional artists, then yes they should draw different things. And can draw what you want (specifically an artist that is being commissioned), or if there asking for requests at what to draw, they don't have to draw what you want.
It honestly gets tiring when being told what you should draw, or even demanded to by complete strangers who just want you to draw what they want. Even though they can easily just try doing it themselves or find an actual artist who draws what they want.
Schools like Cal-arts and such are not pay-to-win. The amount of students that go to those schools and take years, or sometimes never, get a job, are a huge %.
The school itself doesn’t matter, just getting an education in some form is important, like super important.
Your skills are what get you a job NOT what school you went to. Your education is the secondary thing company’s look at when they want to hire you.
My unpopular art opinion: i hate how children are depicted in animation. In the west they all have giant heads, giant eyes, and tiny bodies. Or they're animals or inanimate objects. In the east it's the same thing just with an anime style. I used to draw cartoons and then I started drawing anime style, but I could never emotionally invest in them because they just looked like toys. Then when I wanted to get better at art, I started to learn realistic portrait and gesture drawing. What made me fall in love and become emotionally attached to my work was drawing realistic looking children. From the chubby faces and missing teeth to the variety of proportions across the different ages, it just became so much more challenging, and consequently more fulfilling to get them to look right. And when they did, it felt like a real person came to life on the page. It's just a shame the same level of realism isn't applied to them in modern media. Because classical artwork goes to great lengths to depict humans with painstaking detail. There are so many amazing oil paintings that capture the subtle expressions of a child and it's something you don't really pay attention to until you see it in your own kids.
What she says at 23:00 was the best thing in the entire video ❤
Thank you 🙏🏽
Oh god the first one jeez
11:25 Came across an abstract art piece recently that was going for $8000 in a Manhattan gallery. The art? Four yellow uneven vertical lines on a white canvas. The lines don't even stretch the full height of the canvas. I'm pretty sure the canvas wasn't even painted, the artist just grabbed a fresh one, painted the lines on it in less than two minutes, and called it a day.
That's supposed to be art? And someone with more money than sense will buy it? What even are we doing anymore?
why does the argument always start with the price. If you dont like it and dont think its worth it then dont buy it.
10:44 ima say that a lot of that sentiment is a result of rigorous art programs being cut from schools.
Also it makes me really uneasy when people rag on an art style like Abstract or contemporary art, because the last time an opinion like that was widely expressed it encapsulated things like expressionism and cubism and was called "Degenerate" by 1940s Fascists from Europe.
@stardoogalaxie9314 tbh, the current today has nothing to do with the current back then. Contemporary modern art is the most in line with capitalism.
I agree, although I love their character design, there's something very static about hoyoverse that I don't find interesting.
With the hoyo stuff, I think this is why the redesigns are good cause I love drawing diverse people and hoyo is severely lacking in the department so I like to change up the designs a bit when drawing fanart, but a lot of people in the fandom HATE redesigns (however I will say some redesigns are really boring and miss the whole point of redesigning hoyo characters)
About modern art, I somewhat agree,
As a lot of “modern art” be shown in art museums now is like like
A dude making a stack of buckets filled with sand fall, a literal banana peel stuck to a canvas,
A pickle someone threw and it got stuck on the ceiling, banana peels on a ladder, a dude spreading ink around on a large piece of paper on the floor.
None of this is meaningful, none of it has a reason, none of this fills you with a kind of emotion.
It’s all just random stuff. How is it considered art?
contemporary art doesnt exist to fullfill your old fashioned beauty standards. All the pieces you mentioned have meaning if you actually bothered looking into it
Imo function/character based designs are a lot more interesting. I agree. I find it better to give an existing character an appearance where you can take into account what they do. That being said, if you come up with a cool design and can give it a character without compromising either, that is good. That's it. I don't agree with any of the other takes regarding anime (except the encouragement for experimentation)
Like just for the advice to read Dungeon Meshi alone. Great Manga, so happy it got the anime adaptation, really deserves it
People claiming art styles is too similar will have a stroke when they see how similar languages are
Dungeon meshi! Ryoko Kui is so good at designing characters
Thank you for the video.
I loved this. pls more videos like this ❤❤👍
Yo your friend is so smart and articulate
Every art community I find just feels like an anime art community
Some people like cute stylized girls (anime) but *only* doing fanart of mostly mihoyo games gets boring. As you can see from my pfp, I draw in an anime-like style but I actuallu rarely draw fanart and its kinda hard for me to.
You can do much more things with real people than 1 million numbers on the internet
I’m a fifteen-year-old artist. That section of the video, man. Ouch.
Why don't we just stop shaming people for a fcking artstyle???
Literally got an ad for adobe ai as i was watching this video smh
When ATSV/Encanto came out sooo many artists didn't know how to draw the black characters cause they didn't practice beforehand because it was “too hard” or “out of their comfort zone” or some other dumb excuse. Nobody wants to question why the default/popular art style that artists go for is pale skin and small/white facial features or thin bodies. Most artists have internalized prejudices but don't want to acknowledge or correct that bias, hobby or not.
No, it's because people are way too critical of how some artists draw minority characters. It's either "the color palette is too light" or "they look too stereotypical" or "they don't look accurate enough." People rarely criticize characters that are straight, white, able -bodied, etc, so people are more inclined to draw those characters. Maybe if people were more accepting of different art styles and artistic choices, more diverse characters would be drawn.
@@chynaanderson494 A few people being too eager with criticism isn't at all comparable to societal standards. It's absolutely true that many artists simply don't draw people who aren't pale/light and skinny, or at most slim thick or lean. I understand that people can be hard but it's very disingenuous to say that any character or people who isn't part of this beauty standard can't be drawn because of that. Please don't try to 'justify' people's hardheadedness.
I agree. As a black woman one of my guilty pleasures was always drawing pale anime characters but never drawing from my own real life experience. Which includes an array of diversity. This was one of the reasons why my art was never improving. I wasn't drawing for me. Eventually when I decided to challenge myself to draw more people of color my art got better.
@@chynaanderson494People ALWAYS say this, and I just think it's a very weak excuse. People have been reluctant to draw POC characters long before this became a phenomenon. If anything, the reason why this has happened is because the resources we learn to draw and improve from have implicit racial biases based off of eurocentric beauty standards. Even I didn't start off drawing POC characters, or remember using that as reference early on. Also, if people really give that much of a fuck about what Twitter says or something, just.... don't post it? You are allowed to do that, y'know. There are many colour pick resources for darker skintones, and as long as you're not literally giving someone minstrel lips or making them 5 shades lighter, I highly doubt that'll ever happen.
Yeah legit
People online can be flamed for anything, if I said that as a reason to not learn like. anatomy then that's clearly a flimsy excuse but somehow it is accepted when drawing minorities
Hoyoverse isnt anime it was made to be in a game . Its very different than making 2d designs
I have been sitting here figuring out what a hoyoverse is
20:37 "the lack of belly buttons and nipples unnerved me." 😭 BYE
I think drawing is supposed to be fun, no matter the age, race, level, or experience. So many people tend to look at art thinking that the only thing the artist seeks is to please the audience, but if the artist believes that their art is genuinely important to them than I don't see why others should criticize it so much. If a 13 year old likes to draw manga characters, or realism, and they spend a lot of time doing it, I think we should let them do what they love, and if they want to post it, they can. We're not forced to comment or like or whatever to their account, so why stop just to make fun of them? Another example would be that if we look online, and we stumble across the most gorgeous, mesmerizing piece of art we have ever seen, and then look at the description, and it states: ''14 year old artist'', then suddenly people find oh so many flaws. If that piece would have been created by a famous artist, then the same exact art would have been put in a museum. Well, all that just to say that we should let young artists do what they love, and stop judging them by their artworks.
manhwa is pretty neat, and has a more (semi) realistic look than anime😔
as both avid manga and manhwa reader, i think it depends on the comic itself. i certainly see more mangas with good anatomy basic (and deliberately simplify it) than in manhwas. but the good manhwas are usualy masterpieces themselves
manhwa, manhua, and manga styles all fall under the mega art style genre of the anime, you know?
@@carnngi ehh not really. I get what you mean by that but when ppl said manhwa style, ppl will mostly think about the webtoon True Beauty-like art style. It's a very distinct look because it reflects the korean beauty standards which is very far from your typical mainstream japanese "anime" art style (and very different from japanese beauty standard)
I love how people read the videos title, click on it, and then get offended like they didn't know what was coming lmfao
29:00 personally, if you can't give a rounded critique to younger artists or any artist asking for a critique, you suck at giving critiques.
like tit for tat that's a garbage opinion.
the art teacher telling you to stop drawing anime depends on the situation, if you’re just copying the drawing you find on pinterest and not varying it up then yes, you’re not going to progress or get good marks in your art class but also anime is an art style that should be valued more in art circles, especially those who vary their styles
Usted to draw a lot but never drew Anime it was too Hard, I only drew FLAT geometric ugly cartoon shit.
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I want to comment on the section of modern art.
In my opinion, the problem of modern art is the economic and commercial side of the art exhibition(?) industry. A fair number of modern art work is usually (or from what I've personally seen) done with little to no technique behind it and somehow is valued higher than other works seen at an exhibition. While a piece can have wonderful and intriguing meaning behind it but is objectively unappealing, the pricing of them is completely unfair and unbalanced. I do not have examples of cost comparisons, but with what has occurred over the years in this particular industry, I would assume this happens often enough.
not a single opinion was had here, genuine fence sitters. Theres no point of this video if your hottest take is tap water hot. good video idea, but both of you sound scared of saying anything
Fear of cancellation is real.
I agree that the video is fence sitting and being agreeable more than anything else.
2:30 minutes in and like 99% of the takes here are ass 😭
I mean... they're unpopular for a reason 💀
Saying that people who dont include all races in their drawings are racist is just ridiculous to me. Coming from a person that tries to include everyone in their art, just let artists draw what they want to draw. Its childish to try to force everyone into what you want them to do.
The only thing that would make them racist is whitewashing characters intentionally. But sticking to what you know because you're comfortable with it (and not looking to improve) isn't racist at all. Only blatant ignorance is. I especially hate when people call beginner artists racist for doing this too, like calm down they just fucking started. I understand that throwing around accusations on the internet is just normal at this point- but can we quit normalising it instead?
Is it wrong for a company to have an artstyle throughout their games? people arent complaining about zelda characters looking the same. Sure Hoyoverse does have really similair characters way too often but i think thats more because of them leaning heavily into fanservice.
Is Hoyo the modern default now 😅😂
"drawing doesent make you an artist" is bro stupid
Does microwaving pizza make you a chef
To be my beef with anime art is that a decently huge amount of people that spans from basement dwelling coomer degens and fojos all the way to complete normies sorta view anime art as the standard for good, anything diverting away from that to be “not good” like how when mob psycho (one of the best shows of all time.. period) was criticized for looking bad, because the characters didn’t look “anime enough” it’s a space that sort of worships a certain specific look and puts it on a pedestal (unironically, this is why most anime looks forgettable, because genuinely most anime of A given decade just straight up look the same)
Personally I don’t care for anime-ish designs, at heady I find them neat, at worse, they’re copy pasted, plain, and boring, I just hate the culture around the anime style more then the anime style itself because I don’t care
sometimes when i see those "art has to have meaning" comments my heart seizes up. does me drawing attractive women from the shoulders up wearing no expression not count as art? it never fails to make me laugh. i just be drawing shi ! and no one can take that away from me
I mean, that does have meaning. The meaning here is just "this is a picture of an attractive woman [also impliying what the artist considers attractive]". Same as the sentence, "the boy picked up the ball" means something. Sometimes "meaning" is just really basic stuff that no one consciously thinks about, but is still there
Though yeah I def agree that art doesn't have to have some deeper meaning to be valuable
@@sofastuffing yea fairs. I don't think everything has to have some deep elaborate message behind it to mean Something. to me art is what the human mind and hands create, no matter how simple or complex. there's something beautiful about looking at children's art, as much as there is beauty in analyzing a piece someone spent hours on. Beyond that idrc ill be drawing my girls n noone can stop me