The DOWNGRADES | 2022-2024 Code of Points
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- #gymnastics #masterclass #sports
In this video, we'll take a look at skills that were downgraded in the 2022-2024 Code.
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D-Score
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Sporteverywhere
Gymnastics
Simone Biles
2020
Tokyo 2021
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Just because something became popular does not mean it becomes less difficulty.
Exactly!!
You’re correct, but that’s how all of those Wolf turns have made it in to these routines. FIG is tired of seeing them 😂
@@i.am.heather That's something that I don't understand they didn't devalue wolf turns
@@triplefull7057 ikr? I believe we are all very tired of seeing them!
EXACTLY!
I think upgrading the other apparatuses would have been a better idea than downgrading the vaults.
precisely. Just because vault is a shorter routine doesn't mean that it is any easier.
They are doing that bc the U.S. kicks ass every quad mostly bc of vaults.
They should have just added back the 5th requirement on all the other events.
Exactly!! It’s so exiting to see big scores. It’s one of the reasons I love gymnastics
This might be unpopular but the Nabieva shouldn’t have been downgraded. No one can do it without flexed feet and a leg separation 💀💀. Yea it was popular but it’s definitely more difficult than the Downie, Derwael-Fenton, etc.
I agree!
I love the way it looks 😍
Well its not more difficult than counter kim
@@account-kc1gz I’m not sure if I agree with that. The counter Kim seems more complicated but I think the Nabieva probably requires a lot more power. For instance, Melanie DJDS connected into a counter kim. I can’t imagine anyone connecting into a Nabieva. I think the thing stopping most people from doing the counter kim is the dead hang after. But either way I think that’s an argument to upgrade to counter kim rather than downgrade the Nabieva.
Agree
Why was the cartwheel mount downgraded? Literally noone does it, we should encourage diversity
It was likely because the candle mount got downgraded. Since that skill got lowered, every progression/related skill under it had to go down as well. It's like (hypothetically) if they downgraded the full twisting double back tuck on floor to D, it wouldn't make sense to keep the regular double back tuck at D. This usually happens when there is not much of a gap in difficulty between the elements to begin with unlike the Nabieva (toe on layout tkachev) that went from G to F, the Church (toe on piked tkachev) stayed at E and the Ray (toe on straddled tkachev) stayed at D. Since the Nabieva is still higher than the Church, there's no need to downgrade those elements. Then there are the strange cases where they don't value pikes/tucks differently like with the jaegers on bars or front 1/2 on beam but that is a completely different situation than what you are asking about. I do want them to encourage diversity though. I sort of wish that the 0.2 dismount bonus could be applied to a D+ acrobatic mount as well. Like if you do either a D+ mount or dismount, you can get the 0.2 bonus (but only once for a max bonus of 0.2). Since the candle mount was downgraded, it would not qualify for the bonus and gymnasts would have to do something else if they want to get it.
@@jacksonxu9901 yes! I would love more difficult mounts, and it would actually encourage change, while everyone is doing a D-dismount, +0.3 doesn't make sense
It’s because in he next cycle a low to the beam circling element is required and lots of people probably would have used it
The code of points is getting absolutely ridiculous at this point. It’s penalizing athletes for taking risks and progressing the sport
The fact that a good Amanar won't even break the 15s in the new Code is just...
Only if you are Simone Biles
Yeah, I hate the vault downgrades
Remember during the 2008 Olympics when it was 6.5? Major downgrade!
It is absurd.
The federation keeps downgrading everything. It's starting to get annoying that pretty much these difficult and rare skills have been sort of devalued just bc gymnasts keep upgrading. What were they expecting? Obviously they have to upgrade, bc they keep downgrading. Every gymnast upgrade their skills to elevate their scores, enough to earn medals. Isn't that the purpose of it all? Come on, FIG!
Ummmm can we downgrade the Wolf turn?? EVERYBODY does it, so by their own standard this should have been a no brainer.
They did make a rule so that people would not do Wolf turns back to back.
@@tiffany3784 Well that's a good start lol.
@@tiffany3784
The rule is actually that you can only do ONE turn from each family once during an exercise.
So no more double wolf turns no matter what.
@@noahbyrd6080 It only applies to turn it tuck position (aka wolf turn)
They actually upgraded that one..
Kind of disappointed they didn't downgrade the wolfturns haha
I disagree with downgrading the Nabieva, one of the hardest skills on UB!
They made it so you can only do one rotation in a routine, so there should be less!!!!
Agreed on all counts!
Wow I can’t believe the jump full twist on floor was valued the same as back layout full twist!
Yeah, that was my crazy takeaway from this vid.
I always found it ridiculous with the jump full turn that despite personally being completely un-athletic and not even able to do a handstand I could do a B rated floor element!
Isn't a back layout full twist a B? It's a B in my gym but idk
@@jeffandangiemeans794 that’s the rating everywhere
@@00hl4l4 word. It is admittedly kinda harder on beam than you would think, but still should just be an A skill.
i wish they would upgrade the non-yurchenko vaults to encourage some more versatility in the event
Agreed!
The McIntosh and DTT(Zamo) need to be upgraded!
If downgrading vaults didn't work on 2013-2016 CoP and 2017-2021 CoP, how FIG thinks the very same measures will work next cycle?
The vault move is different from the others, i think. Fig is trying to lower its impact on the overall score and not trying to discourage people. So if all of the vaults are being downgraded by 0.4, it really doesn't matter. A 6.0 is the same as a 6.4 compared to the other years and vaults. I hope that makes sense. It sounded better in my head.
@@tawhneebaby you are right, when they downgraded in the previous codes, they closed the gaps between the vaults to encourage strong execution over doing a harder vault. Before, the amanar was worth 0.7 more than a DTY so it was worth chucking it because you would usually always out score a DTY with even a messy amanar. Now it’s only 0.4 more so a really clean DTY can be worth it and potentially score higher than a poorly executed amanar. What they’re doing this time is just lowering the D scores across the board to reflect more consistent average scores on all apparatuses without changing the gap in difficulty between the vaults themselves. Even if they increased all the vault start values, the margins would still be the same but then you get significantly higher scores on Vault than the other three events. It still would not change the rankings, but the numbers are not well rounded so it doesn’t really seem balanced to have vaults scoring at/near 16 again while the other events average around 13/14
@@jacksonxu9901 your explanation sounds so much better than mine. Thanks for explaining the way i thought.😊
Agree with almost all of them EXCEPT the Fan dismount. Fan starts with a L grip and forward giant entry, into a half twist and double back, technically it is even more difficult than a full twisting double back yet they are downgrading it?! It is not even a popular element among the gymnasts.
Such decision is more political than technical in my opinion.
Totally agree with you
Agreed.
i really hate the idea of downgrading all the vaults.. simone doing the double pike only for it to be downgraded next year wth
She will still be ahead by the same margin since everyone is affected the same way. If every vault is devalued, then it’s not really “downgraded” relative to every other vault, it just makes the average scores across all events more consistent with each other without affecting the rankings. If she continues after the olympics with her YDP, it will still score very well compared to everyone else
All vaults got downgraded so it doesn't really make a difference tbh, you just wont see a big D score number is all.
Doesn’t really make a difference in standings
@@jacksonxu9901 she wanted to do triple apparently, like she does on floor, but she was told no. Too difficult and other gymnasts would get hurt doing it.
I disagree with downgrading the piked Jaeger: it is far more difficult than a simple Jaege
But no way it should be an E
It shouldn’t be an E though
I hate all of these downgrades, especially the vault start values!! I really miss the 2009-2012 CoP...
I don’t understand the point in devaluing vaults to even out the 4 events...if every all arounder vaults, what difference does it make if vaults get valued high or low?
Maybe because vault specialists have an advantage on all around competitions. If is like one event worth more than others.
It can make a difference in the outcomes based on where the strengths or weaknesses are for an AA or team competition. It’s more valuable to be strong on the higher scoring event and a disadvantage to be weak on that event. If your strong event or you hit big on vault you can get a huge score. If your strong event is floor or beam or you really hit big then you can get a good score but it’s not going to be a huge jump in the standings...unless you’re Simone.
@@klw8173 Wasn't this the case with Nastia though? I'm no gymnastics expert by any means, but from what I understand she got REALLY lucky that bars were valued so highly in that Cop. Shawn was great at vault, but that didn't get her gold in the AA.
@@amyparker9816 I can see how one could argue that point but I don’t remember the discrepancy between events being as big as it is now. Maybe I’m just forgetting the code of that quad but a strong vaulter like Shawn and a bar worker like Nastia both had a good chance at winning. The code counted more elements and Nastia had a ton of highly valued elements that she could connect with good execution. With more elements in UB, BB, and FX they could get higher D scores. I still think an individual or team who has beam or floor as a standout strong event and vault as a weaker event in the current code would be at a mathematical disadvantage.
@@klw8173 I think beam and floor were the events that were and still are to a degree, weighted the least. Bars and Vault were weighted higher. In 2008 Kexin/Nastia's event winning score was more than 1.1 higher than Izbasa's. Possibly one of the many things that contributed to Romania's demise as their two best events- although they are pretty reasonable vaulters- had less weighting. I also think Komova and Russia would have been more competitive in 2012 if it had been more even. Maybe they might not have won but it would have been closer.
An Amanar doesn’t even seem like it’s worth it anymore bc of it being +.4 from a DTY. Compared to previous years from it being .5-.8 plus. The only gymnasts who have done it at a worlds this quad is Simone, Jade and Maria Paseka. So why downgrade? It’s not like everyone is doing it!
The maximum difference it once had was .7 from DTY. And It is not because of the value that people don't risk an amanar anymore. Its because gymnasts aren't being able to do that. Look around! Every gymnast around the world, but simone and a few americans, aren't being able to pull out hard skills in ANY event! You don't see a Komova/Mustafinas doing double arabians on floor anymore. You don't see Sui Lus, Fei Chengs on floor anymore. WHERE IS ROMANIA At all?? LOL see?
because the quad before everyone did it. And badly.
@@eimardgomes1128 on bars FIG has done a fantastic job of promoting difficult routines. The other three events are a total mess though, everyone is downgrading vault because the Amanar DTY and FTY gap is all wrong, plus the cheng and rudi are way easier to land than the Amanar.
Beam - no one does any difficult saltos anymore because front aerial + split + straddle connection.
Floor - no reason to go for any difficult when Urazova with a double pike mount is placing 4th in the floor final with the same score as Sunisa Lee at the Olympics with a Silivas and DLO. Donatella has set floor back a decade with her focus on “artistry”
@@eimardgomes1128 tbh considering the amount of bad landings and acl tears on amanars, it's better that it's gone. Like gymnasts were so forced to do them that it didn't seem to matter whether they finished the rotation in time or not. So now that it's downgraded coaches don't risk it anymore. Of course there are a few gymnastics with exceptional amanars
Tho I got to admit, I loved to see good amanars being performed
FIG:
I think this skill is too easy. Undervalued.
I think this skill is too used. Undervalued.
I think this skill is too dangerous. Undervalued.
I think this skill is too poorly done. Undervalued.
I just don't like this skill. Undervalued.
Agree except they still haven't downgraded the wolf turn and it's both over used and poorly done
^^^Facts upon facts^^^
@@kgoulding1237 they did make it so that you can't do 2 in a row. Lol...baby steps i guess.
@@kgoulding1237 they actually upgraded it 🤦🏻♀️
Really happy about the downgrade of the candle mount, split leap, and the hops. Mind numbingly uncreative as well as overused. I will never agree with the downgrading of vaults. It's a moment, rather than a journey like the others. Perhaps a separate scoring system altogether for such a unique event instead of downgrading.
Tbh i don't het the downgrading of the split leap while the split jump keeps on being a B element on beam. It's pretty uncommon to see it well performed in combination so it feels kind of pointless
I really would like to understand that. People never do it properly yet they downgrade it to A. But keeps split jump at B. WHAT?
I wish they'd downgrade the wolf turn. It's not very appealing to watch, and few gymnasts do it well.
YES! Uch get rid of wolf turns please!! So ugly, I don't think any gymnasts do it well. Pretty much downright awful as the gymnast just falls out of them...uch!!!
@@robynzelickson6164 vladislava urazova is the goddess of wolf turns, she's the only one who does it right and beautifully
@@kimochiyokatta1710 I agree. She knows how to balance her arms correctly without flailing them everywhere. She does it with less speed, which gives her proper balace and is so much more graceful.
Maybe they could also downgrade the Silivas from G to H, since too many gymnasts can now perform it
you mean from H to G? But they should also downgrade the double tuck on floor as well, it has no business being a D element along with the double pike
Silivas should be a G. I just dont know how the double tuck 1/1 is an E and the silivas is H
@@jukihiw because they’re both just as easy, ask gymnasts many will even tell you pike isn’t any harder
Instead of lowering vaults, they should just require gymnasts who want to qualify for the AA finals to perform two different vaults and average the two scores. I still don't get how like most gymnasts in the AA finals still cannot qualify for a vault event finals....like if you're an AA gymnast you should have the ability to potentially qualify into all event finals.
I think the Silivas skill on floor exercise should be downgraded from H to G.
Where's downgrade Silivas?
Exactly lol. They downgrade everything but the one thing they SHOULD.
Where's the double tuck (FX) downgrade as well??
The Amanar and Cheng should be worth the same , if you look at the 2019 worlds everyone had a problem with their Amanar (Excluding Simone of course) but easily did their Cheng.
The Cheng has more built in deductions.
Cheng should be .1 higher than Amanar instead of .2 currently. Only one gymnast since the new 2017 CoP that does Amanar (Jade). Simone and Paseka already have Amanar since before that. A LOT of gymnast upgrade to Cheng since 2017 because it is higher than Amanar (Shallon Olsen, Boglarka Devai, Jade Carey, Ellie Downie, Yu Linmin)
Gymnasts: everyone doing a full-in or double layout dismount on bars with no variety
FIG: let’s give it a +0.2 bonus
Fan Yilin: comes up with innovative dismount that can get connection value and is way harder to land
FIG: let’s downgrade it
The produnova and the biles having the same value I-
They really shouldn't
So true
True. You could literally die doing a produnova. And no one has done it in years. Cheng ½ could even be done by rebeca, jade, biles this worlds and maybe melnikova in a few years. Just absurd
I expected them to downgrade wolf turns. They dont look so artistic
I dont know what a normal double pike is worth, however it seems weird to downgrade the Fan, especially since they are doing the 0.2 bonus for D dismounts. Seems rude. However, I like the downgraded vaults, unlike most people. I do think there are better ways to try and even out the scores other than down grading the D score, however FIG doesnt seem to want to consider those methods so this is the best compromise.
double pike dismount is a c
"It's popular, so downgrade it!" is so stupid. Double tuck and pike was done by everybody and their mother yet their values stayed the same for the past 15 years.
Split leap or sissone jump + aerials were some of my favorite beam connections. Eythora Thorsdottir’s beam routine in 2016 was extremely creative. I’m so disappointed that the COP now requires B+D and both elements are now A. #upgradedanceelements
same
Really? Downgrade Produnova even more? And it deserves higher value than Biles. Sorry Simone, I love you, but Produnova is fcking original and brutally difficult vault, it just deserves more appreciation.
Lol No it isn’t. The rotation can be cheated by cowboying it. It requires less technique than both of Biles’ vaults. The reason why so many women fail on it is because it’s attempted by mediocre vault specialists who lack proper technique and thus cannot do vaults from other families with good enough execution to win. The Produnova was always over-valued in the COP and now it’s getting its rightful difficulty value, which is much more in line with how it’s rated in men’s gymnastics.
@@DeepSeas.. It should be technically more difficult. Produnova are two sommersaults (tucked), Biles is one layout sommersault with twists. Adding saltos is technically harder than adding twists. Now Biles II on vault is two saltos as well and it will be probably valued higher than Produnova. In this case it's not fair. Produnova are two forward saltos when forward tumbling is probably considered more difficult than backward tumbling. Produnova was the only two-saltos vault upon now before Biles II. As Biles II is piked, it should get the same value as Produnova or maybe higher by 0.2
Personally, I think they should be the same difficulty, but yeah if I had to choose a more difficult one it’d probably be the Produnova. It basically has a built-in deduction of cowboyed legs.
Edit: Oop just realized you’re talking about the Biles I
@@DeepSeas.. to be fair, I’m sure the Biles can be “cowboyed” too. Most men have leg separations on their piked vaults. Maybe it requires less technique to get it around, but it requires a lot of power to do it well. There’s a reason front handspring vaults are rated so much higher on the women’s side.
@@haxicle5378 Front handspring vaults are higher on the women's side because females lack the upper body strength of men to generate power; which is why the Prudonova on the men's side isn't worth much. it is also much, much harder to 'cowboy' a pike than it is a tuck.
Fan dismount grip is extremely difficult. This is unfair to Chinese gymnasts.
Why does this feel like online gaming where OP characters/skills are nerfed routinely.
😫 Lol great analogy
The candlestick mount is horrendous to me
Basically, this is the middle finger to the USA women's gymnastics team since most of their points come from the vault.
That doesn’t effect them because everyone scores will be lowered evenly lol. Makes no difference.
This is why ppl struggle to see gymnastics as an actual sport. The rules are constantly changing JUST for the sake of it. Gym was 5 minutes from Olympic teams of 2 members each (to 'make things more fair' for the gymnasts from Antarctica to make team finals) and they keep trying to make sure that being more powerful isn't a leg up, in a sport where u literally use ur body weight to throw yourself through the air. This 'sport' will always be about late teen to literally, fully grown (sometimes parents) adult, 'little girls dancing for gold' once every four years in ribbons, glitter and bows like a dance recital.
Who si struggle to ser Wag like a actual SPORT?
I nevera Heard nothing like that
Hmm true. I do like more intricate choreo. Reminds me of skating years ago where there was always a conflict between artistic vs power debate, like Cranston vs Stojko
@@robynzelickson6164 not too versed in skating, but I remember stojko
@@brandonbrown1916 he was a power skater. Cranston was more of a skater with beautiful lines and lovely choreo. He'd throw in the odd jump but I don't think he had a triple axel. Triple toe or loop maybe, but those were different times. Once Stojko got to the end of his career and couldn't jump as well he tried to put in more choreo. Problem was he didn't have the body type for elegance and grace. Surya Bonaly from France had the same problem. She could do a wicked back flip but it was still an illegal move, even on one blade. She did better in Europeans but never did well in Olympics or Worlds. I'm sure her horrible stage mother didn't help!
@@robynzelickson6164 I don't remember cranston. But I remember stojko and bonaly from my childhood, prob because of the back flips lol
You have a beautiful way of presenting, love the vids as a gymnast from way back - can't wait for the Olympics this year to see all my gals doing the ting!
Is there a MAG version of this?
how interesting; there were a few unfamiliar toutines as I hadn't seen it done or I missed during competitions but this showed individual skill, popularity and reason for downgraded points so this was 👍👍👍👏💙
Why did they downgrade the candle mount?!? It was freaking amazing and also requires skill to hold the perfect position while maintaining balance. Why they are making beam works boring day by day? 😥💔😥💔
If popularity of the skill is the reason for the downgrade, why downgrade the Fan and retain the value of wolf turns?
how can they downgrade the produnova vault to 6.0 ?? produnova is so difficult to do
Didn't they thought about downgrading the wolfl turns? 😢 I mean, four years more with such horrible turns! Haha
Couldn’t they have done something about the wolf turns...? They’re so ugly and overrated.
I agree, although you can only count one in the new code so that’s a start.
@@klw8173 thank you! I agree! I love M Laurent's comment about Wolf turns
goodbye candle mount😁😁
I don't know how I got here. I don't know what any of these words mean. 😅
can you do for men also?
I do just want to point out that in 2017-2022 the straight jump 1/1 on floor was the same value as a back 1/1 on floor💀
I agree the candle mount & nabieva should be downgraded. It makes them not seem easy, it’ll make it look awesome!
The fact that vault has less chances for deductions to occur is literally the nature of the vault like it’s the shortest apparatus and therefore will have less opportunities for judges to deduct points????
Thanks for the video! For future reference the Yeo vault is pronounced “Yuh” not “Yao”.
i don’t agree with the nabieva or piked jaegar being downgraded, gymnast did it for the risk to reward ratio
So we're still stuck with wolf turns...
What will Biles II start value be then?
maybe 6.2
Probably 6.2
Anyone else think it's really wrong for the Biles and Produnova vaults to be rated the same? The Produnova is wayy harder
did the wolf turn not get devalued?
They got upgraded 🤢🤦
What about the Mustafina vault???
There's no such thing as "mustafina" vault
also now the amanars won’t even reach near the 15s is crazy AND THE PRODONOVA SHOULD BE STILL AT 7.0 HARDEST VAULT BY FAR AND NO ONE DOES. IT
no wolf turn downgrade?????
Nope they upgraded it 🤦🤢
So F.I.G downgrades moves that become too popular & gives low grades to moves that are too difficult
Gurl bye 🙄
What about wolf turns?
See above comment by M Laurent!! Totally!!
Upgraded 🤦
Am I the only one who agrees with downgrading the vaults across the board? ._. I would have preferred that they hammer execution scores but since the FIG clearly wasn't going to do that any time soon this seemed like the next best bet. But I thought it was becoming ridiculous how necessary difficult vaults were in getting a top AA score, especially when there are so many great beam (and bar in some respect) workers who get hammered E-score wise but happened to not have as much strength on vault
Are they downgrading all the vaults or just the difficult ones. I think it is unfair to penalize those who can do harder vaults. They should be downgraded across the board.
@@arcane7298 It's all vaults
@@luig2121 Thank you!
I mean, it doesn't really change anything other than all the vault/AA scores being 0,4 lower than usual. The gap between the scores will remain exactly the same. Like, if now three gymnasts get 57 56 and 55 next quad it will be 56,6 55,6 and 54,6. Literally a change that doesn't change anything. Maybe it will just be a little more pleasing to the eye to see VT scores not being so much bigger next to the bb/fx ones, nothing else. xD
@@harry4596 That's what I mean actually. A good score on BB and FX is usually like 14...if you're lucky...Meanwhile on vault, the scores are always 14.5-14.9 for a DTY. The new change brings those closer together.
Justice for the Fan dismount😭
i think people complaining about the vault downgrades don’t grasp how much higher vault scores than the other events. compare vault and beam E scores.
Yes but on beam I can fall and try again...I get one chance on vault...all or nothing
@@marcelle215 THIS!
My tip
Wowlf turn from whatever c or d to a
😌👏😌🙏😌🙌
🙏🏼👏👏👏 what's lower than a
I think Silivas should be downgrade too..
That downgraded the Produnova vault? Nice to know that the FIG still think of women as dainty little girls who can’t hack it.
The DTY ia a Baitova!
They look so cool I can’t believe they downgraded the skills
1:01 it’s pronounced like YUH. Not Yao.
Thank you for educating us.
Basically in 2072, you’ll be an Olympic champion on vault with a 10 because the Produnova and the Biles will be downgraded to 1.2 by then.
It seems strange to me that they would downgrade the Nabieva because it was becoming more popular.
I think I can do the last move !!
No one does the candle mount
I can't believe it! It must be downgrade skills of Gymnastics.
They all look hard so why downgrade them. I can do an illusion but to do it on a 4 inch beam, no way.
Downgrading split leaps… erm
31th
The FIG is full of utter crap.
That pronunciation of Produnova hurt my soul. And these downgrades are a mess, exactly as expected.
The pronunciation of Yeo rattled my brain as well
Van leuwen should be downgraded
3 wolf turn should be C
2 Wolf turn should be B
1 wolf turn should be A
------------------------------------------------------
Triple Double should be H
Double Double tuck should be F
Full twisting double tuck should be D
Double Tuck should be C
----------------------------------------------------------
Double double pike should be G
Full twisting double pike should be E
Double pike should be D
---------------------------------------------------------
Double double layout G
Full twisting double layout F
Double Layout should be E
Does double double pike even exist? I have never seen anyone perform it.
Double twist in, back pike out.
@@maussolo no one perform the twist in piked position, they do full twist in (stretched), back pike out. But I've never seen a double double piked
31th