I hate this channel. Found it about a week ago. Since then, I have purchased over $2500 in new hunting gear and firearms. Why do you have to do such a good job on your reviews? Man this channel is addicting.
If you bought rifles via their recommendation i really would hate them, their numbers are always way off. Their averages are a joke on this chart. Average .308 being 202gr? Really, 180gr is the .308 prime, one guy said when using 200+ gr bullets in .308 its for subsonic applications for like supressors and getting the most from a surpressor
Hunted the heavy woods all my life. Never had to shoot past 80 yards at anything. I've found that in those conditions the best round is the one on target. Every other characteristic becomes pretty academic at these ranges. So practice is far more important than cartridge selection. Good Video.
Same here.. I did purchase a 350 Legend in January 2020. I got to use it this past season. Downed a big bodied pennsylvania eight point. Complete pass through double lung shot and the buck stumbled thirty yards to his death bed. Definitely impressed!
@@nataliedeyton6829 that's pretty much what I'm used to in Pennsylvania. You may catch glimpse of deer further away.. but you'd be shooting at them unless they are under 75 yards. I've used several different calibers over the years.. and they all perform the same. The 303 British The 30-06 Springfield The 7mm-08 Remington The 350 Remington Mag The 350 Legend My first rifle was actually an H&R single shot 20 gauge. Shot at a few deer.. didn't hit any!
Most tree stand hunters will shoot less than 80 yards, But if you're hunting in a different environment such as the great plains grass land where 300 yards is a must. Choosing the right caliber will really help
Hunting cartridges were designed right a long time ago. 45-70 (1870's) - 150yds any game in North America. 30-30 (1890's) 200yds - low recoil - ergonomic rifle - 90% of all hunting. A 308 Win (1950's) or 30-06 (1906) 400yds = 99.99% of hunting A 270 Win (1920's) out to 500yds= 99.999% of all hunting, no Magnums needed.
My most used deer cartridge has been 308. I love the caliber. On a couple occasions, including this years deer, I’ve used a 243 from a 20” model 7. The buck this year was at 350 yards trotting angled away. I was in the open having just come over the rise of the land. I didn’t have a rest and couldn’t get lower (kneeling or prone) due to the curvature of the ground. Leading for the deers movement and the wind, I delivered a standing unsupported shot to the heart with a 100 grain soft-nose bullet. The buck reared up and drilled his antlers into the ground the laid motionless. He was done and the bullet was not recovered. That hit was like lightening! On a previous hunt, I punched an antelope at 100 yards with that rifle, using a 100 grain plastic tipped bullet right through the heart. The antelope didn’t move but took 20 seconds to finally tip over. That bullet was recovered under the off side shoulder.
I have never exceeded the usable range of .308. I picked it because I knew it would be one of the easiest cartridges to source and I haven’t been disappointed. 6.5 CM has been far more difficult to source so I shoot 6.5 less.
Ammo availability is the biggest reason I chose a rifle in .308 Win. It's especially nice being able to find surplus military ball ammo just to go have fun with at the range, and still have a really good selection of hunting ammo available to me.
yep thats exactly why I went with 308. I liked 308 for a long time but never owned one and mostly shot intermediary rifle and pistol calibers the last few years. Bought my 308 last year for deer hunting and had so many good options for ammo between ballistic tips, soft points and fmj. Ended up shooting my first deer in the neck with a softpoint then rechambered and hit it in the shoulder with an tipped amax 308.
Love my Grendel. We normally only hunt Whitetail and hogs. I don’t know if I’ll ever hunt with a different rifle. I do have my 30-06 if a moose happens to show up in Mississippi .
I have a 257 Roberts and a 6.5 x 55 swede and have never lost a deer . It really comes down to projectile type and where you place it. Not sure why people think that the Creedmore is better than the 260 or the Swede as there is bugger all difference in performance. All though the creedmore was designed as a target round originally , I think that marketing has a lot to do with it's popularity. My hand loaded Swede easily matches it.
Had a 257 Roberts until a friend wanted it really, really bad to hunt deer back home in Wisconsin. Very accurate, light recoil, and an overall really sweet round in a Ruger M77.
Marketing had everything to do with its popularity. As a result, for me, it’s the best option with the most rifles being produced and by far the cheapest factory ammo, obviously outside of ammo shortages when I generally do not buy ammo.
@@krohn-education3906 They are fine shooting and handling bolt action rifles. The 257 Roberts is a sweet shooting round, definitely worth reloading for.
I've got a Marlin 30-30 and it's nice, but my absolute favorite was my Marlin 35 Remington. With 180 gr Speer Grand Slam bullets it got me some blacktails here in California. I don't reload anymore, and nobody makes factory non-lead ammo for it, so I shipped it to my nephew in Indiana, since they have some funny rifle rules there. I'm from Michigan, and don't remember any funny rifle rules, just the shotgun and black powder only in the lower part of the Lower Peninsula. When I shipped the Marlin 35, I also shipped him my grandfather's old Remington pump rifle in 25 Remington. When they were recording the info at the my local gun shop to ship them, the young guy pointed out that the rifle was manufactured in 1909. My nephew reloads and gets nice open sight groups with it. At least Hornady still makes the 30-30 LeveRevolution 140 gr non-lead loads. Even though I've got 30-06 and 308 bolt actions, there's just "something" about carrying a lever action through the forests of the Sierras that just feels perfect.
Michigan still has a "limited firearms zone" for deer hunting in the southern part of the state. Centerfire rifles are restricted to straight-wall cartridges .35 caliber or greater with length restrictions - no .45-70, for instance. Handguns must use straight-wall cartridges, also. Shotguns and muzzle loaders are pretty much unrestricted. If it isn't deer season, you can use a .460 Weatherby magnum in the "limited firearms zone" if you want to for rabbits, squirrels, coyotes, starlings, whatever, just not for deer, turkeys, and migratory game birds. I think the State expected .44 magnum and .357 lever guns, but along came the .450 Bushmaster and the .350 Legend.
I live your analysis and approach. I take great exception to 202 grains as the average weight of a .308 Bullet. 147 to 165 is the most common, and 180 is the maximum in have ever seen. Have never even seen a bullet over 200 grains in a .308. That is really skewing the .308 data.
I agree with you from my own experience, owning a handful of .308 rifles and constantly on the look out for ammo. 180 grain is the heaviest I found. Usually Federal Nontypical Whitetail 180, which works great with my MVP LR-308.
There are a number of factory loads with 185s, and I’m aware of a couple subsonic 200 grain options. They are certainly not the most common, obviously.
@@phild9813 Well, that is news to me. I learn something new. I also do not see that on the shelves of gun stores. Probably the only place I might find it is on fundbroker. If there, at all. But, in my experience, 180 grain was the heaviest I have had access to.
As a reloader what you can get out of a cartridge is always super fun! I have multiple hunting rifles for different niches. Reloading I can kinda perfect them for each niche.
There is very rarely a round that I don’t like. I may not have the same fondness or bis towards some, but I think there’s only 1 that I just do not like. 7.62x39 has always been cow fodder to me
My British .303 Lee Enfield sort of forced me to become a reloader. Ammo prices are sky high, IF you are lucky to get any. Had it not been for the price of ammo, I would have considered it an excellent round under 300 yards as well.
Craig nice to talk with a fellow reloader. I’ve reloaded extensively for many calibers and this young man sounds like a armchair expert that needs to get off the computer a while and take so lessons from old rifleman like me with the experience and knowledge to teach the way or the real hunter/ rifleman. to the ones who reached this great rewards we have become the weapon. not bragging just been there and excelled in marksmanship and the passion of shooting. so could call it obsession. I admit I often expect to much of people as I do myself. iam a gray headed old fart who loves to help people be everything that they don’t know they could be. that’s not bad thing I don’t think. time is so short but then today most people don’t care or take time to just listen. that’s my two cents. I hope you do well and wonderful in life. nana and papa the hunter from the foothills of the blue ridge mountains in North Carolina .
@@johnnymccann5607 to me the best cartridge for hunting under 300 yards will be an effective one shot kill at the lowest price. I reload .303 British (not cheap) and 9mm ( not effective), .38 special, (not effective), .308 (not cheap). It seems according to my own I criteria I should not hunt, (I do not hunt further than 200 yards) I should keep looking....? Joking, .308 is a good all rounder to me. .303 served me well for 4 decades.
2506 is making a huge come back in my area of Wisconsin for deer. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Personally love the 25 for its devastating effects to deer.
As a data nerd, I love the chart! The 30-30 is on the hook for, dare I say, hundreds of thousands of dead deer in N America. The .243 is another one that has taken its fair share. I’m of the mind, if you don’t need the recoil, why have it? Both the .308 and 30-06 are great rounds, but a dead deer is just as dead, if taken by either of those or a .243.
The chart is wrong, avg velocities arent correct for the 6.5 at all. I have also seen a few say the .308 info like average bullet weight was sorta inflated and off like they are trying to make it shine a little brighter than it actually is. Avg bullet weight for .308 has always been 180gr, its all i see for the most part but they have average weight as 202gr but one guy said over 200gr in .308 would be subsonic stuff. They post these fancy charts that look so professional but are chuck full of incorrect data. They got the 6.5 creedmoor data way wrong, a 138gr bullet in 6.5 creedmoor is not going 2,695fps if its under 2,750fps id be shocked, the majority of 129 grainers are just barely under 3,000fps in 6.5 creedmoor. Do your own research and its safe to say considering i have caught these guys a few times blasting false numbers out there to not trust these videos when making decisions on a new caliber.
.243 is an excellent round for deer hunting. If you want variety of Big Game to Small game, it is tough to turn away the .06, because grain range is so large. From 220 down to 150 for the most part. Just my opinion, but .243 is great for taking things like Mules, Whitetails, Caribou, Blacktails.
I agree with many of you who are saying practice and shot placement are really where it’s at when taking big game. I recently switched from a .308 to a 7mm-08 for recoil and ballistics but both are great. I love the channel! Keep the good videos coming.
I love my old Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage. Where l hunt 50 yards is a pretty good poke. I have put a lot of venison on the table with it. I have lots of other rifles but that old 99 is my lucky gun.
Most of my hunting was in wide-open areas of Colorado, and most of the elk, deer and pronghorn I took were at 350+ yards. My 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Weatherby served me very well for these. Of course if I'd been a more skilled hunter, I wouldn't have had to shoot from so far!
I have been a fan of the 7mm-08 for decades getting mine in 1990. I got it primarily for deer. I wanted something that would be pleasant enough to shoot to allow more practice. I am somewhat surprised you chose a 160 grain bullet for your chart when on deer, a 140 grain would be the normal load. With my rifle, the Hornady SST Superformance do 2900 fps at the muzzle and would good for deer even up to 500 yards. I have reloaded some 160 grain for moose and their muzzle velocity was about 2590. I shot 2 moose with that load with one shot and the furthest was over 200 yards (DRT). For years Randy Newburg killed elk with this caliber so its no slouch. When using the HITS formula you should remember they call heavy game up to 2000 lbs. There's nothing around here that big and if I had encountered a huge bull moose I would have chosen my shot more carefully and gotten as close as I could but have no doubt the rifle would do the job with the right bullet. Its always harder to shoot a more powerful rifle precisely than one that recoils less. For the east coast you would be hard pressed to find a light recoiling caliber that would be more capable than the 7mm-08... yes even the 6.5 Creed can't match it at reasonable ranges.
Definitely agree with you 100 percent! Somehow.. someway writers painted the 7mm-08 Remington into a corner. They wrote many stories about it being good for youth/ladies. This has a lot of people with little to no experience with the cartridge believing that it's for kids. My question is if they do this in regards to the 7mm-08.. why are they praising the 243 Winchester and the 6.5 Creedmoor in their stories. At any rate.. I believe that the 7mm-08 is the BEST whitetail cartridge. Yes .. there's plenty others that get the job done.. but it just plain works for me :)
@@jamespruitt6718 I highly recommend a Tikka T3x... I picked one up in 7mm-08 in March. $720 was the out the door price. Took it to the range with three brands of factory ammo.. Winchester Ballistic Silver tips = .55 inches at 100 yards Norma Whitetail Ammunition = .67 inches at 100 yards Hornady American Whitetail = 1.37 inches at 100 yards I am definitely pleased with the purchase :)
@@jamespruitt6718 I got a Sako AII Forester. It had iron sights that just fell perfect when I shouldered it so I changed the included rings for for a set of low ones and mounted a Leupold 2-7 on it. They don't make that one anymore. Mark Black Bear has a good suggestion. Browning, Weatherby and Howa also make good ones from what I read. I've read some don't like heavy 160 grains because the twist is a little slow. Try and get a 1 in 9 twist if you plan on shooting really heavy bullets. Mine is 1 in 9.5 and shoots them fine but I've read some are 1 in 10.
@@blackie1of4 Agreed. Apparently the 7mm-08 was for youth and ladies while the 6.5 Creed are for manly snipers. Go figure. It can do pretty much everything a 308 Win or even a 270 Win can do in a compact efficient package. Whats not to like.
The 7mm08 is my favorite, hands down, but I wish you had included the .358 Winchester. Yes, it’s not as widely available and yes, it takes reloading to bring out its versatility, but it’s overlooked too much. 150 - 250 grain bullets cover a LOT of critters from deer to moose within 300 yards. Hopefully you will include it in a future video. Love the channel!
I'm a 270 winchester guy myself. Also 30-06 but not because it fascinated me (cuz it didn't like 270). But because I found a nice 1917 on amazing condition in 06 for under $200 with almost perfect rifling and stock, I would wager 97ish % bluing still on it. Like it wasn't really used but kinda stuffed in a cabinet or safe for decades. Action is smooth as butter too. I will probably get a second 3006 for more sporting purposes. I'm think to pair it with my Savage 110 storm in 270. But maybe I'll get a Begara and add a nice muzzle break. Idk, but I've always had good luck with Savage/Steven's. Been the primary brand across multiple platforms for us over 3 generations now and it's never failed us yet. For the money I save I can get some nice glass and or ammo
A great selection of cartridges. I think the 7x57mm Mauser would have been right at home on this list. I have used it extensively within 300 yards with phenomenal results. It is one of those cartridges where both rifles and ammo are hard to come by, though.
I know you guys do a lot of research and a lot of your videos I thoroughly enjoy but I whole heartedly believe that you get far to wrapped up in the numbers. I have personally seen or have been on the trigger when all but 2 of these cartridges have dropped deer well past 300 yards. Good bullets and proper shot placement are far bigger factors than the foot lbs of energy on paper.
I appreciate this follow up to the last video, as I was one of those asking for just 300 yards and in. As much as I don't like Creedmoors, the 6 CM should also be considered here. And I don't mean to be negative once again, but I think the average bullet weight for a lot of the rounds on your chart are far too high for typical hunting loads. You certainly can get .243 rounds over 100gr, but it seems most of the hunting loads are 95 - 100gr. That's not much of a difference, but the majority of 7mm-08 hunting rounds I see are around 140gr, not 160gr ( even 7mm Mag doesn't go above 160gr very often ). Calculating an average weight for a .308 bullet can be tough since there's such a huge range, from 110gr varmint rounds to 200gr+ specialty loads. But for medium-large game, it's usually between 150 - 180gr. Dropping bullet weight would also increase your expected velocity, so better drop and terminal performance figures and less average recoil. I'm not sure how you currently calculate average bullet weight, but I'd use something like a modified mode formula. Because 160gr and 202gr are nowhere near average for 7mm or .308 hunting bullets.
This topic is much more relevant to my region than the long range stuff. Please do more scenarios like this... maybe more specific geographies or hunting situations?
My Daughter (13) shoots .243 I've have .308...last season I switched to 6.5...and love it. That said. I really like the .243. I'm all about connect energy. the velocity of the 243 and six/5 have serious energy at impact
@@johngoodman9380 Yeah like 150, 165, and 180 grains going 3000, 2700, and 2600 fps respectively is the sweetspot of the .308. Never have I seen someone hunt with something over 180 grain in .308.
Nice to have the tried and true .308, 7mm-08, and .243 highlighted. The bullet weights are all heavy for caliber though. They don’t reflect the true performance of these rifles and show their “sweet spots”.
I'm 73, hunting since a 12 year old. I've always preferred a bolt action rifle. My 3 top choices after all these years are the 22.250, the .243, and the .270. No complaints on the 06 either, just never needed that much gun, even for black bear.
My wife is hunting for the first time in her life this fall. To date, she hasn't even shot a firearm yet.... ever. So naturally I told her we would start her off with the .243 knowing the recoil is very mild and it is plenty enough to kill a deer if you place the shot well and don't try to reach out too far. I shoot a .270 which naturally has more recoil but having hunted with my 12ga slug gun shooting 385gr Sabot slugs around 1,900fps for years the .270 is like a walk in the park. Still I thought it might be too much for a smaller framed woman just starting to shoot. Ammo is very hard to find, I had to order mine from a store in Alabama and have it shipped to where I live in PA. Thanks for the video!
While I appreciate a lot of the newer tech and have adopted some (like the 7mm-08), I've killed a lot of animals with 45-70 and 30-06. I bought my premium hunting ammo on sale for under $20 with rebate and it gets me multiple seasons. We get caught up in paying a lot of money for hot new tech we don't need, much like a phone that would probably be better for the bulk of its users by being cheaper with a larger battery. Older, standard cartridges are great for the vast majority of americans.
Amen! With few exceptions, modern creations are either filling a legal need that didn't exist before, or are making marginal improvements with cutting edge ballistics. Even the highest BC bullets and most efficient cartridges don't change much in normal hunting distances inside of 400 yards.
When I started picking up my grandkids from school and events in the 2018-2019 school year, I finally got a smart phone. If it was easier to input a text on, I'd still have a flip phone.
The old timers back in 1900 and 1940's were killing Elk, Deer, Bear just fine with the 1870's designed 45-70, and 1906 designed 30-06. All these newer calibers are just a way for gun industry to make a buck. Even the 1890's 6.5x55mm Swede does the same velocity as 6.5 Creed so it is just marketing to me.
Great information and video! I haven't been hunting for for too many years, 23 years tops! In guns, started with a 12ga and quickly transitioned to a 20ga for the areas I hunted in, during shotgun season. For rifle season, I started with a .270 and found it very effective but slowly moved into .308 and returned back to my earlier familiar Army days during the 1990's. Soon, afterwards the .270 and .308 were retired back to the safe and 6.5 creedmoor took their place. All had served me well and filled my freezers, but overall very satisfied with my choices! Happy hunting, stay safe!
The 308 one thing over the others: I can reliably find it, and I can reliably afford it. Only other calibers I can say the same for are 5.56 and 7.62x39.
Good point, espectially in today's market. The beauty of the 7mm-08 and .243 are, if you are a handloader, you can neck down .308 brass for your needs.
@@carlosfigueroa847 berger’s making the 133 Elite Hunter; Hammer’s making 121 & 128 gr. Hammer Hunters (which are all copper so they penetrate better); a lot of people hunt with Blackjack ACEs which are 131gr; and there are other companies that make heavier monolithic projectiles in .257. That’s all been in the last few years
Be sure your barrel has a fast enough twist rate to keep the heavier bullets stable. That's a common issue with the older caliber rifles. My 25.06 is so much better than my 6.5 cree
Love the parameters for the cartridges in this video! Due to my rebuilt shoulder I need to try to keep that recoil number under 10. Example: when I realized I could only shoot 8 rounds of 6.5CM sighting in my son’s deer rifle I built an AR308 in 6.5CM and I could shoot a whole lot more with it. I extrapolated this possibility after building a 6.5 Grendel AR and could shoot it all day; I bought the first CZ bolt gun in that caliber and ouch! So it’s mostly semi-autos for me. And the 300 yard limit probably describes my practical shooting limit. Anyway, terrific video! You got my sub and I’m now looking through your video list for other fun stuff.
Love your videos. I live in northern Arkansas and a long shot is usually less than 200 yrds and more often around 100 yds. Your videos showing the capabilities and limitations of different cartridges has helped me select rifles for harvesting different animals. My friends and I hunt feral hogs, bear, whitetail deer and coyotes. We also have elk hunts available but that's not what I love to hunt. Great job.
Fantastic video man! Thank you for making it. To many super duper long range videos out there that are encouraging hunters to take irresponsible shots. Good to see someone focusing on responsible hunting. Thumbs up dude
Many good choices of calibers for deer hunting. In New York, opening day in the Catskills back in the 80’s and 90’s was on a Monday. You would hear the shots echoing from miles away. The 30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington Leveraction rifles were very popular. Another popular rifle was the Remington 742,7400 semi automatic and Remington 760 7600 pump action rifles in 30-06. In Hunter Safety course, the instructor said most shots in the woods were under 35 yards and recommended a Marlin 336 in 30-30 or Winchester 94 in 30-30 without a scope. He claims that the 30-30 could kill a deer with iron sights easily to 100 yards. My experience hunting, the 30-30 Winchester is all you need for hunting most game in North America. It has a proven track record. I used 170 grain Remington Corelokt ammunition and deer always dropped. The new Hornady Leverevolution 160 grain loads will make the 30-30 a 200 yard rifle when hunting an open field. The .35 Remington Marlin 336 using 200 grain Remington Corelokt is a good deer or black bear load. It definitely is a good brush round for the heavily wooded areas. I use the Hornady Leverevolution 200 grain load. It seems to hit just as hard but noticed more bullet fragments.
I think the .260 Rem belonged in the in the trio you mentioned. Great BC, light recoil, and larger caliber seems to me to be better than the .243. All great for the intentions being discussed. Excellent video!
In a 10 minute video it just makes more sense to mention the most popular cartridge of a certain type then discuss the .260, 6mm Remington, .32 Special, 7mm-30 Waters, .257 Roberts, 6mm Creedmoor, etc...
I'm glad you mentioned 350 legend because I live in Indiana and hunt public. So I'm restricted to what calibers I can use. And that 350 legend with 180gr federal is a laser beam out to 200 yards
You missed the #1 reason for the 350-Legend. It fits in an AR15 mag. It is the perfect combination for youth/small frame hunters. 200 yards and in on deer, perfect for pigs, low recoil, super fast follow ups if needed. Also subsonic loads!
@@twintwo1429 Ive been hunting over 2 decades. I love traditional bolt actions. The reason the 350 legend was designed was to fit an AR mag while suiting the needs for straight wall only states as well. It is genius by winchester in that they use resized .223 brass and 9mm bullets they (prior to covid) could pump both out at astonishing rates. You make practice ammo sub $.50per round (again appealing to AR guys) you are going to sell a ton of ammo. As far as sales proven, it does very well. Like I said it is great for sub 200 yard encounters on deer/pigs with its low recoil and 150-180 grain standard loadings with 260 grain subs available. Sure its fine in a bolt gun for alot of the same reasons, but the AR shines for its ability to fit youth/small frame with even lighter recoil and faster follow-ups. It is also easily sub moa capable. There isnt much to dislike if you understand its limitations and fits your scenario for hunting. Ive taken 200-270lb pigs with it, and taken many youth hunters out with great success on whitetails
@@twintwo1429 if that's how you read my response you read it wrong. By the same token of calling me a lib i could call you a fud. Nothing i said was insulting to you or out of emotion. Simply explaining the case for a cartridge many know little about.
Not to mention less projection deflection in heavy brush and branches. (Proven catch some you tube videos) I built an ultra light for my wife and she loves it (I do as well). Less recoil than the 45-70 and 30-30.
Great perspective. Well done. All good deer rifle choices. I am not too sure about the 350 Legend & 30/30 out to 300 but 200 they are really good options.
The 30-30 , 7mm-08 , añd 25-06 is my favorite s of the list. 30-30 because I like lever actions. 7mm-08 because it give you the most in a light compact hunting rifle without kicking your arm off. 25-06 because of ballistic performance and splat factor on varmints to medium de ever size game.
Good info, except on the 25-06. Even the heaviest (117-120gr) factory leadings are well into the 3000 FPS range. Even without crazy pressures I can get a Blackjack 131 or Berger 135 to 3100 FPS. I know that Handloading is a totally different argument, but to state an average MV of below 3000 FPS for the 25-06 is a serious injustice.
All the numbers are off, read through the comments. These guys are a joke plastering wrong numbers on a fancy buttoned up chart looking professional but are very incorrect. So far i know the 6.5creedmoor data is wrong, others have said the .308 data was also wrong so id say its safe to say they are all wrong on the data. This isnt the first video where they were talking wrong numbers either, i have caught them several times saying stuff far from true
@@boredboiseboy i would never recommend using these videos to ever help make a decision on a rifle purchase or caliber research. They have been wrong in pretty much every single video where they "talk numbers" or graphs. They seem to take like 100 grain and 150 grain and literally average those numbers instead of relevancy or popularity. .308 and .30-06 is usually 180 grain but he takes the lowest grain and highest grain and average it out to get the numbe and to be honest i have never really seen a 200gr or whatever he said .308 but to be fair i dont research .308 since i use 6.5 theres no need too. But you cant average grain with math, you aver grain based on popularity, theres more 180gr .308 floating around than any other grain figuratively so you say common grain or popular grain as 180 not math the average out. Also the dude acted shocked at the explosion in the ballistics gel from the compression of air and oils and other debris from the bullet to technically diesel in the gel and explode. Yeah he googled the fancy definition name but he seemed shocked and i have known about it for a loooooong time. Never use this channel for research.
I will say a 243 shooting the winchester deer season XP bullets with a frontal heart shot will give you that instant dirt nap you're looking for. Just don't expect those bullets to bust a shoulder!!
I had the distinctly dumb idea to use a .243 ballistic tip at less than 20 yards and got greeted with a large orange sized hole right in the middle of the shoulder on the other side of the deer. Needless to say the angle I was shooting from wasn't great but it did drop it right on the spot.
A 110 grain soft tip put one deer down last year with a frontal shot, didn't hit the heart or lungs...strangest shit I've ever seen hunting. That deer didn't go 20 yards.
As a bow hunter, the only times I pick up a rifle is during rifle seasons. All of my shots are still under 40 yards, I generally use either a 7.62x39 or a 300 blackout. I do occasionally use an old savage 99 chambered in 308
The ONLY ammo that I could consistently buy at my local gun store throughout the last 18 months, including pistol calibers, rifle centerfire and rimfire, is .308 WIN or 7.62x51 NATO. There's your answer right there.
Excellent comparison. I have started hunting with short action non magnum rifles and limiting my range to bring back the sport of the hunt. I have no problem with long range hunting if one is well practiced and can place a quick killing ethical shot. For me it became to unsporting and wasn't hunting. Thanks for your time and effort putting together excellent informational videos.
There is no such thing as long range hunting, only long range unethical shooting at legal game. Hunting requires a plethora of skills beyond those needed for "Shooting!"
I've used several of these cartridges on deer including the newish Creedmoor. Within 300 yards, of these cartridges the 25-06 is hands down the most impressive on game! It's just no contest in that arena.
It works well enough, but its very difficult to get exceptional accuracy with bullets heavier than 100gr with the 1:10 twist most rifles come with. With those little 87gr bullets it is best suited for long range varmints It was my dad’s favorite caliber for many years. He eventually (around 1985 or so) had a barrel made with a 1:9 twist. It would put 120gr bullets in tiny groups all day long.
In my area of the Pacific NW the longest practical hunting distance in the thick wooded landscape is at the most 75 to 85 yards. Heck you would be hunting and a deer would pop up and run away from 15 yards away of where you're standing. Non of those cartridges are necessary as you can hunt with a .357 Magnum very effectively. My preference in this setting is either a 300 blackout or a 7,62x39 (handloads) chambered bolt action rifle with a 16 inch barrel.
Within 300 yards, my bar .308 and marlin 30-30 will do the job here in Canada. That's all I need knowing that more moose and deers have been taken down within the last 100 years than any other calibers combined.
@@hikenmikes8262 love that rifle, it's light , accurate, very reliable and, like you said, very mild recoil. As good as it gets in my humble opinion and, it does the job. As my hunting partners are now using the latest and greatest wsm calibers, I went a different way and now using a pimped out 30-30 on most hunts, love the old school style and feel, especially in our thick woodlands.
You have a nice assortment of cartridges here, and I shoot, hunt and load several of them. That said, if you are going after elk or moose, perhaps all of them except the 308 become marginal. If you expand the 308 case "trio" to include the 358 Winchester then you have a cartridge that will not only do the job on deer but is viable for the larger animals as well.
I agree for the most part... I know the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't as great as some people like to think when it comes to hunting. I mean shooting out to a 1000 yards on steel it's great but as far as terminal performance on deer size game I'd be pretty comfortable at 400-450 yards and 300 yards I'd have zero worries... I would've had the 270WIN and/or 270WSM on this list with the more popular 130-140gr bullets as well. It can get the job done a little further like the 6.5 Creedmoor but still in the same category when it comes to hunting for me anyways. I've been watching lots of the videos since I found your channel and really digging the content!!!
Big agreement with your comments. My issue with my 260 Remington is the rifle it comes in is not very heavy and it is hard to shoot accurately offhand in afield situation, I keep it around to shoot targets off a bench though. In the field I carry my 270.
Think you missed a HUGE one, the .338 federal. Borderline magnum level out of a 308 size case! My hand loads (not pushing overly hard) get 2625 fps with a 200gr bullet. I’ve gotten well into 2700 fps.
243 is excellent for varmints/coyotes, deer and black bear (particularly well placed with a big one :] I purposefully got a Remington pump rifle for same in Pennsylvania.
My Browning BLR 308 81 lever action has been serving me well for thirty years, and will continue to do so for years to come. Never shot a deer in the woods past 100 yards, most of them 50 yards and below. I pair it with 150 grain Federal power shock loads, which she likes the most. The deer not so much.
Long time follower and 2 year member of P24. Your videos are great! I visit Mountain Home ID multiple times a year and hope to cross paths one day. Thank you for continuing your videos after "IS".
I just bought my 7mm-08, and have yet to take it out...that being said, my .308 has given me many successful years of hunting, and has dropped a fee Elk at 500-600 yards. I'm using (for elk) 180 grain Hornady SST rounds, so maybe your opinion was based on the 150 grain? Either way.... just wanted to put that out there. I'm a new subscriber, and am loving the channel. Thanks!!
I am starting to like the 350 Legend because, in my area, all safe shots are under 200 yards . It will take the largest game that I will encounter locally. Also, 350 Legend will also fit in an AR platform, ammo is relatively inexpensive which makes it a practical ranch type rifle. Got two very nice bolt action rifles in 308 and 300 Win Mag but rarely need the range and accuracy they provide.
If you like 308 why not 30-06. It’s little faster than 308 and 7mm-08 with more punch and recoil feels about the same to me. ( I do know the recoil number is a little higher but not that noticeable to me.) I hunted everything with 30-06 using 150 gr core lockt bullet for 10 years and only one or two animals went more than 20-25 yards before dying, but most folded up right there. There was only one animal that was shot over 300 yards that I can remember. I love 25-06 also, and I would own a 6.5 CR but with a 25-06, 270 win and 280 rem already didn’t make sense because I believe all those rounds do what I would need better than that round. I now use a rem 700 stainless 280 rem with custom carbon fiber stock for everything I hunt including deer antelope elk pig and exotics( mostly because it is light, recoil is minimal to me, has a high BC bullet, and it is a sub moa tack driver that can easily shoot out to 500 yards if needed) but I still occasionally take that old rem 700 bdl 30-06 out deer hunting just because every so often. 30-06 is an old round but timelessly does the job well.
I never sold the Enfield and bought a Browning BLR in 7-08, (About $ 450 with scope mount and extra magazine) plus a very expensive (about $400) Leupold 1.5 x 6 , Could not afford a Zeiss or Swarovsky, Year 1984, Often you flush deer at 30 yds and the 3x9 on the Enfield is to powerfull to get them in sight. Now a 1x8 or 1x10 Scope for the Enfield
Love your vids,you are very knowledgeable and give use a non bias proven opinion. PS I would bet that half the people in the comment section,could not hit a deer at 300 yards
Another cartridge that I think you're missing out on is the 300 Savage, which used to be incredibly popular, especially when fired from the Savage 99 lever action rifle.
Hard to find ammo. I got a reloaded setup for it and let my brother use it since he's in the UP and isn't in the limited rifle zone. Good for close brush
@@dundonrl I loaded them with 150 grn rounded Spitzer . I forget the name, Spitzer like but a roundish nose I would have liked to get 165 grn round nosed for it. It should do just fine at close range in the brush. You shouldn't shoot through heavy brush anyway and only use brush to get close. Short ranged deer coming in to his blind or maybe running into one at close range the lever action should do well.
I used to work at the Winchester factory in Oxford, MS. The large tubs that were used to collect the bullets were used throughout the plant. Sometimes there were left over shell cases and suck that were stuck in the tubs. I noticed the 9mm projectile fit in an un trimmed .223 shell case and instantly thought it would be a great little round especially when loaded with a combination of pistol and rifle powders for various barrel lengths of AR style rifles.
What ? No 270 Win ? The best cartridge you have on the table is a tie IMHO with the 7mm/08 (my choice) and the 25/06. The 6.5CM gets honorable mention and just may be the lone best round for deer, time will tell. I've been hunting with it for the last 3 seasons and even with the 143 ELDX's have found it to really knock them off their hooves with only 38-40 gr. of powder. Mostly through and throughs with great blood loss, internal damage and less meat damage.
Yep. I haven't taken my 270 or 308 out for whitetail since I got my 6.5. Trying some Sako super hammerheads this year for bullets. I was really happy with the federal terminal ascent last year.
A 30-30 is still here because its a hammer! old design or not, its been perfection from day one! I've killed more variety of game with this round than most because its the devil within a certain range. Deer, Bear, antelope, elk, pigs, coyote. If you can see their eyes, it works! yes, I am a fan! Silver tip Winchester rule!
because it's essentially a rimless .357 maximum (meant to work better in AR's)... it's a hyped up pistol cartridge, shooting pistol bullets lol. That is why it's not amounted to much; now if they had made the case length closer to .38-72, but straight walled, and spec'd it to use 200+gr rifle bullets, it might be useful.
7-08! All game in NA can be taken with it a close range and it’s got great frontal area. It’s got larger bullets available than the 6.5’s for large game. 6.8 western is also great for 300 yards and way way beyond! 6mm arc and 6mm GT would be awesome to with more support for deer and down. 6.8 is too awesome not to pick right now. They need to make that Springfield 2020 in 6.8 western and they would have hands down the best rifle in the non custom market.
For under 300 yards the 7-08 has nothing on its parent cartridge. Sure you can shoot 120s with less recoil, but you can find .30 bullets from 110 grains on up.
Wesley. I would take a 280ai over the 6.8 western all day. Bigger projectile at the same velocity with simalar bc. Non magnum. Holds at least one more round in the magazine. 6.8 western is basically a 270wsm with fast twist barrel.
@@JAKDRZR The BC’s will be better for the 6.8 when they start loading for it. It’s going to slightly edge out the 280ai in a short action. The 7rsaum is sweet too. Any of those 3 are good to go. We’ll see how popular they can make that 6.8…. I will give you that the bullet chose is better for the 280ai but the 6.8 will have less recoil making spotting shots and follow up shots easier.
@@CorePathway Um have you seen how many 7mm bullets they make up to and over 200 gr? They have higher BC’s by weight than the 308’s…. The 175 7mm eldx has a .689 BC. The 7mm also have a better sectional density. Arguably, the 6.5 is the low end of frontal surface area, sectional density and bullet weight for elk, the 7mm is the sweet spot for deer and elk. However I do like .308 bullets, I just prefer to shoot 190’s out of my 300 wsm…
@@wesleyturner1979 as of right now I think Berger 170gr EOL bullet has the highest bc for .270 cal at .662. The 175eldx hornady in .280 is .689. They are very simalar in muzzle velocity at those weights and recoil between the two is basically identical. Both less then a 30-06. Also the 6.8 I think uses more powder if I’m not mistaken. The 6.8 is a short action but it is a magnum. I really like the idea of having a extra shell in the mag with the standard action. I’m not against the 6.8 and I’m sure once it gets bigger there will be even more bullets for it. It’s nice the .270cal stuff is getting attention now. From what I hear 25cal is next to blow up.
The 30 wcf aka 30-30 is what I grew up with (58 years old) now. It's grandfather the 38-55 in a modern lever action hand-loading to its fullest potential with the proper size bullets will take anything in the lower 48 within reasonable range. And it's considered a straight wall cartridge. I wish Hornaday would make a. 377 LEVERevolution bullet for it.
If you want to go back in the 1890’s look at the 7x57 which came out in 1892-3 and 30-06 based off it among others. The 257 & 6mm are both basically the same case as 7x57. All very useful. I have a 7x57 which is close to the 308 based 7-08 ballistically. Hard to find those calibers though.
Ballistically the 6.5 CM the 260 Rem and the 6.5x55 are identical. What you can do with one, you can do with the others. They have to be loaded to different pressures to do this, but in factory loads they are identical. Of course if the 6.5x55 was loaded to the pressures of the other two it would outstrip them.
You missed out on my personal favorite the .270 Winchester. I have shot Rabbits, Coyotes, Antelope, Mule deer, Elk and Moose with it and all have been 1shot kills. My favorite bullet is the 130 grain Barnes TSX for deer, elk and moose. I will rethink that as the 110 grain TSX makes spectacular kills on Deer. I plan on using it on Antelope next year in Wyoming. Starting at 3500 FPS, it shoots like a laser out to 350 yards and will make soup out of the Heart and lungs. What more could you ask for. It also just caresses the shoulder Thank you for writing this article. It is nice to see someone make sense. I recently read an article about what they said was the new super hunting round, the 6.8 westerner. They then should a ballistic comparison using 175 grain target bullets with other long range cartridges at 1,000 yards. Dumb, dumb dumb. It doesn't matter how much bullet drop or wind deflection you have at 1000 yards. If you are shooting game at that range you are an idiot. It takes over a second for the bullet to cross that distance and you seldom have range flags set out to judge the wind. Also the poor animal could move enough to make your perfectly aimed bullet either miss completely or worse hit the animal badly and wound it so that you have to track it down after walking 10 football fields to where the blood trail starts. Chances are the poor animal will suffer a horrible death from that shot and you would never find it. I just don't get it. Shooting steel at 1000 yards is interesting and the .270 is more than capable of ringing the steel. Taking shots at game at that distance is not hunting but rather it is sniping, if you are successful and being a real slob otherwise.
@Backfire. I don’t agree that there aren’t good bullets for the 25-06 when reloading. Berger, Nosler, hornady all make a very nice bullet in 115gr that destroys a 6.5 creed to 600 yards. You can get 3100fps at the muzzle with these.
Agreed. Reloading for a 25-06 gives you much better selection and a “hotter” load than he showed on his computer screen. For 300 yards zero at 200 and you have a 6 inch bullet drop at 300 yards.
Thanks for the shorter range calibers…..I hunt in the woods of the NE and we rarely shoot over 150 yds…Max. I shot a deer at 150 once….most of my shots are almost in bow or crossbow range….you dont see the deer until they are almost on you. I have many of the calibers you reviewed….and actually love the new 350 legend….light recoil and cheap ammo. But I use my 30/30 or 45/70 more then any other guns. My sons use my 308 and 7mm08. Although if we stay home to hunt instead of my camp….its shotgun only……I hate shotguns.
If it is made, please pronounce it as “7 millimeter”, not 7 mm! Just a pet peeve of mine. MM is an abbreviation of millimeter, not the actual word as it was meant to be used. Same as how some people use “V” instead of versus in legal references or sports competitions. Okay, rant over.
@@ronsamborski6230 If you don't have anything good to say, why say anything at all. If you have so much time on your hands, why don't you correct everyone else on UA-cam and write to all the online retailers and ammo manufacturers as well and tell them how you feel.
@@archstanton9703 Well, EXCUUUSE ME! I just brought up the way that the host of the video pronounces it as “MM” rather than millimeter. And no, I don’t have so much time on my hands to comment on everything on UA-cam or to write to all of the ammo manufacturers and retailers either. I am allowed to make comments on the way people say things, aren’t I? And I don’t need your permission, either.
@@ronsamborski6230 I agree that you are free to make comments, but you don't need to get your panties in a knot. You replied to my comment instead of making your own new comment directed at the maker of the video. Life is too short to get upset about little things. No harm, no foul. Have a good day!
One of my brothers in law has used 30 30 for over 40 years and he gets 4 or more deer every year and a few boar and even an elk. He knows how to hunt and got to within 80 yards of an elk and used a heavy bullet.
I hate this channel. Found it about a week ago. Since then, I have purchased over $2500 in new hunting gear and firearms. Why do you have to do such a good job on your reviews? Man this channel is addicting.
If you bought rifles via their recommendation i really would hate them, their numbers are always way off. Their averages are a joke on this chart. Average .308 being 202gr? Really, 180gr is the .308 prime, one guy said when using 200+ gr bullets in .308 its for subsonic applications for like supressors and getting the most from a surpressor
@@ratedredneck96 Top F-class shooters use 200gr in their 308s.
@@MrMalicious5 it still wouldnt be considered average grain weight or common weight
My favorite all around is my 7mag or my 30 06 hunt in western pa open fields mostly no more than 300 yds
@@ratedredneck96 to be fair I think you're looking at modal average vs mean average, which is what Backfire is referring to.
Hunted the heavy woods all my life. Never had to shoot past 80 yards at anything. I've found that in those conditions the best round is the one on target. Every other characteristic becomes pretty academic at these ranges. So practice is far more important than cartridge selection. Good Video.
Same here.. I did purchase a 350 Legend in January 2020. I got to use it this past season. Downed a big bodied pennsylvania eight point. Complete pass through double lung shot and the buck stumbled thirty yards to his death bed.
Definitely impressed!
I hunt in western NC mountains and have hunted for 30 years and have never shot a deer over 75 yards... most shots are 40 yards or bow range 😂
@@nataliedeyton6829 that's pretty much what I'm used to in Pennsylvania. You may catch glimpse of deer further away.. but you'd be shooting at them unless they are under 75 yards.
I've used several different calibers over the years.. and they all perform the same.
The 303 British
The 30-06 Springfield
The 7mm-08 Remington
The 350 Remington Mag
The 350 Legend
My first rifle was actually an H&R single shot 20 gauge. Shot at a few deer.. didn't hit any!
Something like 95% of all big game in North America is shot at or under 100 yards. You're in good company.
Most tree stand hunters will shoot less than 80 yards, But if you're hunting in a different environment such as the great plains grass land where 300 yards is a must. Choosing the right caliber will really help
Hunting cartridges were designed right a long time ago.
45-70 (1870's) - 150yds any game in North America.
30-30 (1890's) 200yds - low recoil - ergonomic rifle - 90% of all hunting.
A 308 Win (1950's) or 30-06 (1906) 400yds = 99.99% of hunting
A 270 Win (1920's) out to 500yds= 99.999% of all hunting, no Magnums needed.
Some states require straight wall the 350 about the same as the 35 rem. I love mine extremely accurate.
You include .270, but miss 1906 30.06 which it was based upon.
@@joepangit6938 he included the 30 06
A 338 Lapua out to 1000 yds = 99.999999% of all hunting. Just can't stop Godzilla.
not if enjoyment by those requiring lower recoil maybe for you. why need a 300 for varmints seriously even white tail and smaller?
I love my 25-06, I haven’t had a problem finding good ammo, I love how flat it shoots!
I can't find 25-06 anywhere 😫
I have no trouble at all going to any sporting store near me and getting 25-06 ammo. I suppose it helps I use Hornady SST 117g so most stores stock it
@Jared HaasA speed demon like that could shoot out the barrel pretty quick. Do you know how many rounds it has fired? Might be time to re-chamber it.
What bullets do you use?
@@byronstrohm3288I mostly use nosler partition 100grain
My most used deer cartridge has been 308. I love the caliber. On a couple occasions, including this years deer, I’ve used a 243 from a 20” model 7. The buck this year was at 350 yards trotting angled away. I was in the open having just come over the rise of the land. I didn’t have a rest and couldn’t get lower (kneeling or prone) due to the curvature of the ground. Leading for the deers movement and the wind, I delivered a standing unsupported shot to the heart with a 100 grain soft-nose bullet. The buck reared up and drilled his antlers into the ground the laid motionless. He was done and the bullet was not recovered. That hit was like lightening! On a previous hunt, I punched an antelope at 100 yards with that rifle, using a 100 grain plastic tipped bullet right through the heart. The antelope didn’t move but took 20 seconds to finally tip over. That bullet was recovered under the off side shoulder.
Hunted Mountains and Heavy Woods always .270 Win and 30-30 Marlin. All I needed in Africa for Plains Game was the .270 ! Shot placement is Key.
I have never exceeded the usable range of .308. I picked it because I knew it would be one of the easiest cartridges to source and I haven’t been disappointed. 6.5 CM has been far more difficult to source so I shoot 6.5 less.
True but I solved this by buying a good bit of 6.5 supplies and reloading.
Good choice. Depending on purpose - .22LR, 5.56, .308, .45-70. I've got a couple others but they really never come out of the safe.
Settling the 308 vs 6.5 Creedmore debate finally.......what ammo can I get.
Ammo availability is the biggest reason I chose a rifle in .308 Win. It's especially nice being able to find surplus military ball ammo just to go have fun with at the range, and still have a really good selection of hunting ammo available to me.
yep thats exactly why I went with 308. I liked 308 for a long time but never owned one and mostly shot intermediary rifle and pistol calibers the last few years. Bought my 308 last year for deer hunting and had so many good options for ammo between ballistic tips, soft points and fmj. Ended up shooting my first deer in the neck with a softpoint then rechambered and hit it in the shoulder with an tipped amax 308.
6.5 Grendel “18 AR platform extremely versatile under 300 yards, low recoil, light handling more than than enough for deer sized game.
Agreed! I'd swap out the creedmoor in this list for the Grendel.
@@tythomps sthu
@@reefread1234 😎
@@reefread1234 isn’t crazy how now the grendell is better for deer than the creedmore?? Haha ridiculous man how stupid people are
Love my Grendel. We normally only hunt Whitetail and hogs. I don’t know if I’ll ever hunt with a different rifle. I do have my 30-06 if a moose happens to show up in Mississippi .
I’ve taken 300 + deer and have never shot one past 200yds mostly with a 06 cool video👍👍
I love the 30-06 I've been shooting one since 14
Yup ,me too ,plus several big black bears and pigs. Have plenty of 06 ammo for life.
I’m sorry.
I have a 257 Roberts and a 6.5 x 55 swede and have never lost a deer . It really comes down to projectile type and where you place it. Not sure why people think that the Creedmore is better than the 260 or the Swede as there is bugger all difference in performance. All though the creedmore was designed as a target round originally , I think that marketing has a lot to do with
it's popularity. My hand loaded Swede easily matches it.
Amen to that! 260 Rem fan here
Had a 257 Roberts until a friend wanted it really, really bad to hunt deer back home in Wisconsin. Very accurate, light recoil, and an overall really sweet round in a Ruger M77.
Marketing had everything to do with its popularity. As a result, for me, it’s the best option with the most rifles being produced and by far the cheapest factory ammo, obviously outside of ammo shortages when I generally do not buy ammo.
@@timclaus8313 I have an M77 in 257 Roberts. Great gun, terrible ammo prices
@@krohn-education3906 They are fine shooting and handling bolt action rifles. The 257 Roberts is a sweet shooting round, definitely worth reloading for.
Me, smiling at my 300 Savage. It's been in the woods every year in my family since 1925. I have no idea how many deer it's taken.
I've got a Marlin 30-30 and it's nice, but my absolute favorite was my Marlin 35 Remington. With 180 gr Speer Grand Slam bullets it got me some blacktails here in California. I don't reload anymore, and nobody makes factory non-lead ammo for it, so I shipped it to my nephew in Indiana, since they have some funny rifle rules there. I'm from Michigan, and don't remember any funny rifle rules, just the shotgun and black powder only in the lower part of the Lower Peninsula. When I shipped the Marlin 35, I also shipped him my grandfather's old Remington pump rifle in 25 Remington. When they were recording the info at the my local gun shop to ship them, the young guy pointed out that the rifle was manufactured in 1909. My nephew reloads and gets nice open sight groups with it. At least Hornady still makes the 30-30 LeveRevolution 140 gr non-lead loads. Even though I've got 30-06 and 308 bolt actions, there's just "something" about carrying a lever action through the forests of the Sierras that just feels perfect.
Got rid of the funny rifle rules couple years ago. Bigger then a 22 you can use it now for the most part
Michigan still has a "limited firearms zone" for deer hunting in the southern part of the state. Centerfire rifles are restricted to straight-wall cartridges .35 caliber or greater with length restrictions - no .45-70, for instance. Handguns must use straight-wall cartridges, also. Shotguns and muzzle loaders are pretty much unrestricted. If it isn't deer season, you can use a .460 Weatherby magnum in the "limited firearms zone" if you want to for rabbits, squirrels, coyotes, starlings, whatever, just not for deer, turkeys, and migratory game birds. I think the State expected .44 magnum and .357 lever guns, but along came the .450 Bushmaster and the .350 Legend.
I live your analysis and approach. I take great exception to 202 grains as the average weight of a .308 Bullet. 147 to 165 is the most common, and 180 is the maximum in have ever seen. Have never even seen a bullet over 200 grains in a .308. That is really skewing the .308 data.
Agree
I agree with you from my own experience, owning a handful of .308 rifles and constantly on the look out for ammo. 180 grain is the heaviest I found. Usually Federal Nontypical Whitetail 180, which works great with my MVP LR-308.
There are a number of factory loads with 185s, and I’m aware of a couple subsonic 200 grain options. They are certainly not the most common, obviously.
@@phild9813 Well, that is news to me. I learn something new. I also do not see that on the shelves of gun stores. Probably the only place I might find it is on fundbroker. If there, at all. But, in my experience, 180 grain was the heaviest I have had access to.
I shoot cast lead 200 in my 30-06 and you can get a 220 grain molds
I started off hunting with a 30-30 next got a 30-06 which became my favorite. Now Im a .308 Lover for sure. ❣️
Same, to a T
I love my Winchester xpr in 350 legend, light recoil and an amazing shooter with a great trigger. Deadly out to 250
Well said. Sometimes I think that I’ve never met a cartridge that I didn’t like, accepting their limitations. Of note, I am a reloader.
As a reloader what you can get out of a cartridge is always super fun! I have multiple hunting rifles for different niches. Reloading I can kinda perfect them for each niche.
There is very rarely a round that I don’t like. I may not have the same fondness or bis towards some, but I think there’s only 1 that I just do not like. 7.62x39 has always been cow fodder to me
My British .303 Lee Enfield sort of forced me to become a reloader. Ammo prices are sky high, IF you are lucky to get any. Had it not been for the price of ammo, I would have considered it an excellent round under 300 yards as well.
Craig nice to talk with a fellow reloader. I’ve reloaded extensively for many calibers and this young man sounds like a armchair expert that needs to get off the computer a while and take so lessons from old rifleman like me with the experience and knowledge to teach the way or the real hunter/ rifleman. to the ones who reached this great rewards we have become the weapon. not bragging just been there and excelled in marksmanship and the passion of shooting. so could call it obsession. I admit I often expect to much of people as I do myself. iam a gray headed old fart who loves to help people be everything that they don’t know they could be. that’s not bad thing I don’t think. time is so short but then today most people don’t care or take time to just listen. that’s my two cents. I hope you do well and wonderful in life. nana and papa the hunter from the foothills of the blue ridge mountains in North Carolina .
@@johnnymccann5607 to me the best cartridge for hunting under 300 yards will be an effective one shot kill at the lowest price. I reload .303 British (not cheap) and 9mm ( not effective), .38 special, (not effective), .308 (not cheap). It seems according to my own I criteria I should not hunt, (I do not hunt further than 200 yards) I should keep looking....? Joking, .308 is a good all rounder to me. .303 served me well for 4 decades.
2506 is making a huge come back in my area of Wisconsin for deer. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Personally love the 25 for its devastating effects to deer.
It do kick ass.
6.5x06 85-160 fills the bullet line up 90 Hornady 3400 160 2600 no slouch no magnum needed. No prc needed either
As a data nerd, I love the chart!
The 30-30 is on the hook for, dare I say, hundreds of thousands of dead deer in N America. The .243 is another one that has taken its fair share.
I’m of the mind, if you don’t need the recoil, why have it? Both the .308 and 30-06 are great rounds, but a dead deer is just as dead, if taken by either of those or a .243.
The .243 and .25-06 are massively underrated.
The chart is wrong, avg velocities arent correct for the 6.5 at all. I have also seen a few say the .308 info like average bullet weight was sorta inflated and off like they are trying to make it shine a little brighter than it actually is. Avg bullet weight for .308 has always been 180gr, its all i see for the most part but they have average weight as 202gr but one guy said over 200gr in .308 would be subsonic stuff. They post these fancy charts that look so professional but are chuck full of incorrect data. They got the 6.5 creedmoor data way wrong, a 138gr bullet in 6.5 creedmoor is not going 2,695fps if its under 2,750fps id be shocked, the majority of 129 grainers are just barely under 3,000fps in 6.5 creedmoor. Do your own research and its safe to say considering i have caught these guys a few times blasting false numbers out there to not trust these videos when making decisions on a new caliber.
I'm very skeptical of the .30-30 data unless we're talking about Hornady's 160 grain ftx leverevolution load.
@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 all the numbers are off and many of their videos have had wrong info in them
.243 is an excellent round for deer hunting. If you want variety of Big Game to Small game, it is tough to turn away the .06, because grain range is so large. From 220 down to 150 for the most part. Just my opinion, but .243 is great for taking things like Mules, Whitetails, Caribou, Blacktails.
I agree with many of you who are saying practice and shot placement are really where it’s at when taking big game. I recently switched from a .308 to a 7mm-08 for recoil and ballistics but both are great. I love the channel! Keep the good videos coming.
I love my old Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage. Where l hunt 50 yards is a pretty good poke. I have put a lot of venison on the table with it. I have lots of other rifles but that old 99 is my lucky gun.
Most of my hunting was in wide-open areas of Colorado, and most of the elk, deer and pronghorn I took were at 350+ yards. My 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Weatherby served me very well for these. Of course if I'd been a more skilled hunter, I wouldn't have had to shoot from so far!
My wife dropped a 300 lb hog at 200 stone dead with the ruger american gen 2 in 6.5 grendel. She absolutely loves it.
The first antelope I ever shot hit the ground as soon as my bullet hit it. I love hunting with my .243
The 25.06 is one of THE most underrated cartridges of all time
Agreed. It’s one of my favorites
25.06 totally rocks on deer. I switched to 30.06 for deer hunting though, just so I could find ammo anyplace. Can't shoot them unless you have ammo.
100%
It’s crazy how history repeats itself… everyone is hot on the 6CM… ever heard of a .243 lol
I have been a fan of the 7mm-08 for decades getting mine in 1990. I got it primarily for deer. I wanted something that would be pleasant enough to shoot to allow more practice. I am somewhat surprised you chose a 160 grain bullet for your chart when on deer, a 140 grain would be the normal load. With my rifle, the Hornady SST Superformance do 2900 fps at the muzzle and would good for deer even up to 500 yards. I have reloaded some 160 grain for moose and their muzzle velocity was about 2590. I shot 2 moose with that load with one shot and the furthest was over 200 yards (DRT). For years Randy Newburg killed elk with this caliber so its no slouch. When using the HITS formula you should remember they call heavy game up to 2000 lbs. There's nothing around here that big and if I had encountered a huge bull moose I would have chosen my shot more carefully and gotten as close as I could but have no doubt the rifle would do the job with the right bullet. Its always harder to shoot a more powerful rifle precisely than one that recoils less. For the east coast you would be hard pressed to find a light recoiling caliber that would be more capable than the 7mm-08... yes even the 6.5 Creed can't match it at reasonable ranges.
Definitely agree with you 100 percent!
Somehow.. someway writers painted the 7mm-08 Remington into a corner. They wrote many stories about it being good for youth/ladies. This has a lot of people with little to no experience with the cartridge believing that it's for kids.
My question is if they do this in regards to the 7mm-08.. why are they praising the 243 Winchester and the 6.5 Creedmoor in their stories.
At any rate.. I believe that the 7mm-08 is the BEST whitetail cartridge. Yes .. there's plenty others that get the job done.. but it just plain works for me :)
What type of rifle do you have? I’m recently interested in getting a 7mm-08 but can’t decide on the rifle.
@@jamespruitt6718 I highly recommend a Tikka T3x... I picked one up in 7mm-08 in March.
$720 was the out the door price. Took it to the range with three brands of factory ammo..
Winchester Ballistic Silver tips = .55 inches at 100 yards
Norma Whitetail Ammunition = .67 inches at 100 yards
Hornady American Whitetail = 1.37 inches at 100 yards
I am definitely pleased with the purchase :)
@@jamespruitt6718 I got a Sako AII Forester. It had iron sights that just fell perfect when I shouldered it so I changed the included rings for for a set of low ones and mounted a Leupold 2-7 on it. They don't make that one anymore. Mark Black Bear has a good suggestion. Browning, Weatherby and Howa also make good ones from what I read. I've read some don't like heavy 160 grains because the twist is a little slow. Try and get a 1 in 9 twist if you plan on shooting really heavy bullets. Mine is 1 in 9.5 and shoots them fine but I've read some are 1 in 10.
@@blackie1of4 Agreed. Apparently the 7mm-08 was for youth and ladies while the 6.5 Creed are for manly snipers. Go figure. It can do pretty much everything a 308 Win or even a 270 Win can do in a compact efficient package. Whats not to like.
The 7mm08 is my favorite, hands down, but I wish you had included the .358 Winchester. Yes, it’s not as widely available and yes, it takes reloading to bring out its versatility, but it’s overlooked too much. 150 - 250 grain bullets cover a LOT of critters from deer to moose within 300 yards. Hopefully you will include it in a future video. Love the channel!
.358 300 is a ride 200 yes 225 optimum
I'm a 270 winchester guy myself. Also 30-06 but not because it fascinated me (cuz it didn't like 270). But because I found a nice 1917 on amazing condition in 06 for under $200 with almost perfect rifling and stock, I would wager 97ish % bluing still on it. Like it wasn't really used but kinda stuffed in a cabinet or safe for decades. Action is smooth as butter too. I will probably get a second 3006 for more sporting purposes. I'm think to pair it with my Savage 110 storm in 270. But maybe I'll get a Begara and add a nice muzzle break. Idk, but I've always had good luck with Savage/Steven's. Been the primary brand across multiple platforms for us over 3 generations now and it's never failed us yet. For the money I save I can get some nice glass and or ammo
Considering the ridiculous prices and lack of availability I’m thinking bow hunting may be a better option this year 😂
Lol I’ve been having trouble finding my usual broadheads. Even us bow hunters can’t escape it.
Yes, but you don't get the smell of gunpowder ,or the recoil !
Do you know what a decent bow costs to set up? 🥲🥲🥲🥲🥲 and broadheads are around $30 a piece and typically not used 2x. Never mind arrows….
You won’t be saving any money with going to bow hunting 😂 my bow setup is easily Twice the cost of my rifle setup.
@@aidangalanti69
I’ve had my setup for years.
A great selection of cartridges. I think the 7x57mm Mauser would have been right at home on this list. I have used it extensively within 300 yards with phenomenal results. It is one of those cartridges where both rifles and ammo are hard to come by, though.
6.5x55 Swedish is another good one
I know you guys do a lot of research and a lot of your videos I thoroughly enjoy but I whole heartedly believe that you get far to wrapped up in the numbers. I have personally seen or have been on the trigger when all but 2 of these cartridges have dropped deer well past 300 yards. Good bullets and proper shot placement are far bigger factors than the foot lbs of energy on paper.
I appreciate this follow up to the last video, as I was one of those asking for just 300 yards and in. As much as I don't like Creedmoors, the 6 CM should also be considered here.
And I don't mean to be negative once again, but I think the average bullet weight for a lot of the rounds on your chart are far too high for typical hunting loads. You certainly can get .243 rounds over 100gr, but it seems most of the hunting loads are 95 - 100gr. That's not much of a difference, but the majority of 7mm-08 hunting rounds I see are around 140gr, not 160gr ( even 7mm Mag doesn't go above 160gr very often ). Calculating an average weight for a .308 bullet can be tough since there's such a huge range, from 110gr varmint rounds to 200gr+ specialty loads. But for medium-large game, it's usually between 150 - 180gr. Dropping bullet weight would also increase your expected velocity, so better drop and terminal performance figures and less average recoil.
I'm not sure how you currently calculate average bullet weight, but I'd use something like a modified mode formula. Because 160gr and 202gr are nowhere near average for 7mm or .308 hunting bullets.
This topic is much more relevant to my region than the long range stuff. Please do more scenarios like this... maybe more specific geographies or hunting situations?
Inside 300 yards, the 6.5 Grendel is a real winner. 123-129 gr, partition style or controlled expansion-the Grendel is a deer slayer!
Never had a deer run over 30 yards with the Grendel
My Daughter (13) shoots .243 I've have .308...last season I switched to 6.5...and love it. That said. I really like the .243. I'm all about connect energy. the velocity of the 243 and six/5 have serious energy at impact
.308 wins out to 300 yards based on cartridge choices and availability.
Am I reading the chart correctly, .308 bullet weight avg, 202, muzzle velocity 2491 fps. What happened to 150 gr. traveling 2820 fps?
@@johngoodman9380 Yeah like 150, 165, and 180 grains going 3000, 2700, and 2600 fps respectively is the sweetspot of the .308. Never have I seen someone hunt with something over 180 grain in .308.
not unless they want to shoot through a fence pole @@stevenmontoya7275
Nice to have the tried and true .308, 7mm-08, and .243 highlighted. The bullet weights are all heavy for caliber though. They don’t reflect the true performance of these rifles and show
their “sweet spots”.
Great video! I own three guns in one of those calibers. I’ve shot a lot of caribou with my .243, at 300 yds or less, and really love it.
I'm 73, hunting since a 12 year old. I've always preferred a bolt action rifle. My 3 top choices after all these years are the 22.250, the .243, and the .270. No complaints on the 06 either, just never needed that much gun, even for black bear.
I absolutely love 7mm-08... it's one of those great cult calibers like 41mag.
I will always love the .41 Magnum!
My wife is hunting for the first time in her life this fall. To date, she hasn't even shot a firearm yet.... ever. So naturally I told her we would start her off with the .243 knowing the recoil is very mild and it is plenty enough to kill a deer if you place the shot well and don't try to reach out too far. I shoot a .270 which naturally has more recoil but having hunted with my 12ga slug gun shooting 385gr Sabot slugs around 1,900fps for years the .270 is like a walk in the park. Still I thought it might be too much for a smaller framed woman just starting to shoot. Ammo is very hard to find, I had to order mine from a store in Alabama and have it shipped to where I live in PA. Thanks for the video!
While I appreciate a lot of the newer tech and have adopted some (like the 7mm-08), I've killed a lot of animals with 45-70 and 30-06. I bought my premium hunting ammo on sale for under $20 with rebate and it gets me multiple seasons. We get caught up in paying a lot of money for hot new tech we don't need, much like a phone that would probably be better for the bulk of its users by being cheaper with a larger battery. Older, standard cartridges are great for the vast majority of americans.
Amen! With few exceptions, modern creations are either filling a legal need that didn't exist before, or are making marginal improvements with cutting edge ballistics. Even the highest BC bullets and most efficient cartridges don't change much in normal hunting distances inside of 400 yards.
When I started picking up my grandkids from school and events in the 2018-2019 school year, I finally got a smart phone. If it was easier to input a text on, I'd still have a flip phone.
Most will figure this out after messing around for 50 years or so like many of us. I have enough 06 ammo for a lifetime.
The old timers back in 1900 and 1940's were killing Elk, Deer, Bear just fine with the 1870's designed 45-70, and 1906 designed 30-06. All these newer calibers are just a way for gun industry to make a buck. Even the 1890's 6.5x55mm Swede does the same velocity as 6.5 Creed so it is just marketing to me.
7mm-08 isn't "newer" tech really. Been around for 42 years. Much longer than that as a wildcat load called the 7mm/308.
Great information and video! I haven't been hunting for for too many years, 23 years tops! In guns, started with a 12ga and quickly transitioned to a 20ga for the areas I hunted in, during shotgun season. For rifle season, I started with a .270 and found it very effective but slowly moved into .308 and returned back to my earlier familiar Army days during the 1990's. Soon, afterwards the .270 and .308 were retired back to the safe and 6.5 creedmoor took their place. All had served me well and filled my freezers, but overall very satisfied with my choices! Happy hunting, stay safe!
The 308 one thing over the others: I can reliably find it, and I can reliably afford it. Only other calibers I can say the same for are 5.56 and 7.62x39.
Good point, espectially in today's market. The beauty of the 7mm-08 and .243 are, if you are a handloader, you can neck down .308 brass for your needs.
With more and more heavier .257 projectiles coming out, the 25-06 really steps into a whole new class. The 1/4 bore is getting hot
Who's making bigger hunting bullets in 25 Cal?
@@carlosfigueroa847 berger’s making the 133 Elite Hunter; Hammer’s making 121 & 128 gr. Hammer Hunters (which are all copper so they penetrate better); a lot of people hunt with Blackjack ACEs which are 131gr; and there are other companies that make heavier monolithic projectiles in .257. That’s all been in the last few years
@@noahhorinek ooh, 120 grain hammer hunters sound like serious medicine for deer sized game... 25 Creedmoor might be on the way 😂
Be sure your barrel has a fast enough twist rate to keep the heavier bullets stable. That's a common issue with the older caliber rifles. My 25.06 is so much better than my 6.5 cree
@@KAden-ew6cv I built a fast-twist 25-06 for this purpose. I love the thing
Love the parameters for the cartridges in this video! Due to my rebuilt shoulder I need to try to keep that recoil number under 10. Example: when I realized I could only shoot 8 rounds of 6.5CM sighting in my son’s deer rifle I built an AR308 in 6.5CM and I could shoot a whole lot more with it. I extrapolated this possibility after building a 6.5 Grendel AR and could shoot it all day; I bought the first CZ bolt gun in that caliber and ouch! So it’s mostly semi-autos for me.
And the 300 yard limit probably describes my practical shooting limit. Anyway, terrific video! You got my sub and I’m now looking through your video list for other fun stuff.
Glad you found a gun you can still shoot!
Love your videos. I live in northern Arkansas and a long shot is usually less than 200 yrds and more often around 100 yds. Your videos showing the capabilities and limitations of different cartridges has helped me select rifles for harvesting different animals. My friends and I hunt feral hogs, bear, whitetail deer and coyotes. We also have elk hunts available but that's not what I love to hunt. Great job.
Fantastic video man! Thank you for making it. To many super duper long range videos out there that are encouraging hunters to take irresponsible shots. Good to see someone focusing on responsible hunting. Thumbs up dude
Many good choices of calibers for deer hunting. In New York, opening day in the Catskills back in the 80’s and 90’s was on a Monday. You would hear the shots echoing from miles away. The 30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington Leveraction rifles were very popular. Another popular rifle was the Remington 742,7400 semi automatic and Remington 760 7600 pump action rifles in 30-06.
In Hunter Safety course, the instructor said most shots in the woods were under 35 yards and recommended a Marlin 336 in 30-30 or Winchester 94 in 30-30 without a scope. He claims that the 30-30 could kill a deer with iron sights easily to 100 yards.
My experience hunting, the 30-30 Winchester is all you need for hunting most game in North America. It has a proven track record. I used 170 grain Remington Corelokt ammunition and deer always dropped. The new Hornady Leverevolution 160 grain loads will make the 30-30 a 200 yard rifle when hunting an open field. The .35 Remington Marlin 336 using 200 grain Remington Corelokt is a good deer or black bear load. It definitely is a good brush round for the heavily wooded areas. I use the Hornady Leverevolution 200 grain load. It seems to hit just as hard but noticed more bullet fragments.
I think the .260 Rem belonged in the in the trio you mentioned. Great BC, light recoil, and larger caliber seems to me to be better than the .243. All great for the intentions being discussed.
Excellent video!
In a 10 minute video it just makes more sense to mention the most popular cartridge of a certain type then discuss the .260, 6mm Remington, .32 Special, 7mm-30 Waters, .257 Roberts, 6mm Creedmoor, etc...
@@adamhymas4620
I totally understand that, was just pointing out that it was part of the .308 case family, and a "flat-out" fine cartridge.
OnTheFritz602 totally agree mate the 260 rocks cheers Yogi Australia 🇦🇺🤙🤙
I'm glad you mentioned 350 legend because I live in Indiana and hunt public. So I'm restricted to what calibers I can use. And that 350 legend with 180gr federal is a laser beam out to 200 yards
You missed the #1 reason for the 350-Legend. It fits in an AR15 mag. It is the perfect combination for youth/small frame hunters. 200 yards and in on deer, perfect for pigs, low recoil, super fast follow ups if needed. Also subsonic loads!
What about for home defense in a suburban area?
@@twintwo1429 Ive been hunting over 2 decades. I love traditional bolt actions. The reason the 350 legend was designed was to fit an AR mag while suiting the needs for straight wall only states as well. It is genius by winchester in that they use resized .223 brass and 9mm bullets they (prior to covid) could pump both out at astonishing rates. You make practice ammo sub $.50per round (again appealing to AR guys) you are going to sell a ton of ammo.
As far as sales proven, it does very well. Like I said it is great for sub 200 yard encounters on deer/pigs with its low recoil and 150-180 grain standard loadings with 260 grain subs available. Sure its fine in a bolt gun for alot of the same reasons, but the AR shines for its ability to fit youth/small frame with even lighter recoil and faster follow-ups. It is also easily sub moa capable. There isnt much to dislike if you understand its limitations and fits your scenario for hunting.
Ive taken 200-270lb pigs with it, and taken many youth hunters out with great success on whitetails
@@twintwo1429 if that's how you read my response you read it wrong. By the same token of calling me a lib i could call you a fud. Nothing i said was insulting to you or out of emotion. Simply explaining the case for a cartridge many know little about.
Not to mention less projection deflection in heavy brush and branches. (Proven catch some you tube videos) I built an ultra light for my wife and she loves it (I do as well). Less recoil than the 45-70 and 30-30.
I agree completely. 350 legend, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 spc. I think of as mainly AR platform guns. I hunt with AR’s ...smaller lighter than most bolt guns
Oh last comment. As I am from South Africa, We use the .303brit quite often as well. Falls right in between the 308 and the 30-30
Great perspective. Well done. All good deer rifle choices. I am not too sure about the 350 Legend & 30/30 out to 300 but 200 they are really good options.
The 30-30 , 7mm-08 , añd 25-06 is my favorite s of the list. 30-30 because I like lever actions. 7mm-08 because it give you the most in a light compact hunting rifle without kicking your arm off. 25-06 because of ballistic performance and splat factor on varmints to medium de ever size game.
Good info, except on the 25-06. Even the heaviest (117-120gr) factory leadings are well into the 3000 FPS range. Even without crazy pressures I can get a Blackjack 131 or Berger 135 to 3100 FPS. I know that Handloading is a totally different argument, but to state an average MV of below 3000 FPS for the 25-06 is a serious injustice.
Love my 25-06
All the numbers are off, read through the comments. These guys are a joke plastering wrong numbers on a fancy buttoned up chart looking professional but are very incorrect. So far i know the 6.5creedmoor data is wrong, others have said the .308 data was also wrong so id say its safe to say they are all wrong on the data. This isnt the first video where they were talking wrong numbers either, i have caught them several times saying stuff far from true
True. Just like the 6.5 x 55 Swede can easily be loaded to Creedmore velocity .
I'm shooting a 100g Barnes TTSX at 3200fps...that's a factory load.😳
@@boredboiseboy i would never recommend using these videos to ever help make a decision on a rifle purchase or caliber research. They have been wrong in pretty much every single video where they "talk numbers" or graphs. They seem to take like 100 grain and 150 grain and literally average those numbers instead of relevancy or popularity. .308 and .30-06 is usually 180 grain but he takes the lowest grain and highest grain and average it out to get the numbe and to be honest i have never really seen a 200gr or whatever he said .308 but to be fair i dont research .308 since i use 6.5 theres no need too. But you cant average grain with math, you aver grain based on popularity, theres more 180gr .308 floating around than any other grain figuratively so you say common grain or popular grain as 180 not math the average out. Also the dude acted shocked at the explosion in the ballistics gel from the compression of air and oils and other debris from the bullet to technically diesel in the gel and explode. Yeah he googled the fancy definition name but he seemed shocked and i have known about it for a loooooong time. Never use this channel for research.
Your videos on different cartridges have been so informative. It has made a big impact on what I will hunt with this year. Thanks.
I will say a 243 shooting the winchester deer season XP bullets with a frontal heart shot will give you that instant dirt nap you're looking for. Just don't expect those bullets to bust a shoulder!!
I had the distinctly dumb idea to use a .243 ballistic tip at less than 20 yards and got greeted with a large orange sized hole right in the middle of the shoulder on the other side of the deer. Needless to say the angle I was shooting from wasn't great but it did drop it right on the spot.
A 110 grain soft tip put one deer down last year with a frontal shot, didn't hit the heart or lungs...strangest shit I've ever seen hunting. That deer didn't go 20 yards.
Shoulder shots with a 243 go hand in hand. High in the shoulder puts them down with ease.🦌
As a bow hunter, the only times I pick up a rifle is during rifle seasons. All of my shots are still under 40 yards, I generally use either a 7.62x39 or a 300 blackout. I do occasionally use an old savage 99 chambered in 308
The ONLY ammo that I could consistently buy at my local gun store throughout the last 18 months, including pistol calibers, rifle centerfire and rimfire, is .308 WIN or 7.62x51 NATO. There's your answer right there.
In my neck of the woods all that's on the shelves all the time is 350 legend and 9mm lmao
Excellent comparison. I have started hunting with short action non magnum rifles and limiting my range to bring back the sport of the hunt. I have no problem with long range hunting if one is well practiced and can place a quick killing ethical shot. For me it became to unsporting and wasn't hunting.
Thanks for your time and effort putting together excellent informational videos.
There is no such thing as long range hunting, only long range unethical shooting at legal game.
Hunting requires a plethora of skills beyond those needed for "Shooting!"
Nice to see the 6mm-08 on your list. (243)
Not listed was another great cartridge, the 7mm/06. More commonly known as the .280 Remington.
I've hunted mule deer and white tail with my 25-06 for 35 yrs. Great forgotten cartridge.
I've used several of these cartridges on deer including the newish Creedmoor. Within 300 yards, of these cartridges the 25-06 is hands down the most impressive on game! It's just no contest in that arena.
Yup....and if you make it a lil bigger...Ta Da....30/06...Says I in Boomer. Haha.
It works well enough, but its very difficult to get exceptional accuracy with bullets heavier than 100gr with the 1:10 twist most rifles come with. With those little 87gr bullets it is best suited for long range varmints It was my dad’s favorite caliber for many years. He eventually (around 1985 or so) had a barrel made with a 1:9 twist. It would put 120gr bullets in tiny groups all day long.
It is amazing to me how frequently companies will hamstring their rifles with a crappy twist!
In my area of the Pacific NW the longest practical hunting distance in the thick wooded landscape is at the most 75 to 85 yards. Heck you would be hunting and a deer would pop up and run away from 15 yards away of where you're standing. Non of those cartridges are necessary as you can hunt with a .357 Magnum very effectively. My preference in this setting is either a 300 blackout or a 7,62x39 (handloads) chambered bolt action rifle with a 16 inch barrel.
Within 300 yards, my bar .308 and marlin 30-30 will do the job here in Canada. That's all I need knowing that more moose and deers have been taken down within the last 100 years than any other calibers combined.
I’ll bet that 308 BAR is a comfortable shooter...low recoil.
@@hikenmikes8262 love that rifle, it's light , accurate, very reliable and, like you said, very mild recoil. As good as it gets in my humble opinion and, it does the job. As my hunting partners are now using the latest and greatest wsm calibers, I went a different way and now using a pimped out 30-30 on most hunts, love the old school style and feel, especially in our thick woodlands.
You have a nice assortment of cartridges here, and I shoot, hunt and load several of them. That said, if you are going after elk or moose, perhaps all of them except the 308 become marginal. If you expand the 308 case "trio" to include the 358 Winchester then you have a cartridge that will not only do the job on deer but is viable for the larger animals as well.
I agree for the most part... I know the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't as great as some people like to think when it comes to hunting. I mean shooting out to a 1000 yards on steel it's great but as far as terminal performance on deer size game I'd be pretty comfortable at 400-450 yards and 300 yards I'd have zero worries... I would've had the 270WIN and/or 270WSM on this list with the more popular 130-140gr bullets as well. It can get the job done a little further like the 6.5 Creedmoor but still in the same category when it comes to hunting for me anyways. I've been watching lots of the videos since I found your channel and really digging the content!!!
Big agreement with your comments. My issue with my 260 Remington is the rifle it comes in is not very heavy and it is hard to shoot accurately offhand in afield situation, I keep it around to shoot targets off a bench though. In the field I carry my 270.
Excellent video, especially shooting at no more than 300 yards for the cartridges in order to have the accuracy and power to ethically take game.
Think you missed a HUGE one, the .338 federal. Borderline magnum level out of a 308 size case! My hand loads (not pushing overly hard) get 2625 fps with a 200gr bullet. I’ve gotten well into 2700 fps.
Absolutely correct on that one. I load the 160 Barnes at 3050fps with h322. The 215 sierra at 2650 with leverevolution. Awesome cartridge.
Try the 160 grain Barnes TTSX. I'm getting close to 3,100 with RL17, and it hits deer with authority
338 federal is an unsung beast. People never seem to warm to 33s. 30s? Yup, 35s? Yup, 33s not so much.
Yes! Awsome round. Took my first moose with mine. Perfect bullet expansion on 210 grain tsx. Cheap to reload and not too bad for recoil
@@megastick9324 yeah I’m not sure why more people haven’t caught into the 338fed. It’s the most effective
243 is excellent for varmints/coyotes, deer and black bear (particularly well placed with a big one :] I purposefully got a Remington pump rifle for same in Pennsylvania.
7mm-08 the one to rule them all.
My Browning BLR 308 81 lever action has been serving me well for thirty years, and will continue to do so for years to come. Never shot a deer in the woods past 100 yards, most of them 50 yards and below. I pair it with 150 grain Federal power shock loads, which she likes the most. The deer not so much.
I hunt with a 243 and never had problems with it.
Long time follower and 2 year member of P24. Your videos are great! I visit Mountain Home ID multiple times a year and hope to cross paths one day. Thank you for continuing your videos after "IS".
I just bought my 7mm-08, and have yet to take it out...that being said, my .308 has given me many successful years of hunting, and has dropped a fee Elk at 500-600 yards. I'm using (for elk) 180 grain Hornady SST rounds, so maybe your opinion was based on the 150 grain?
Either way.... just wanted to put that out there. I'm a new subscriber, and am loving the channel. Thanks!!
I am starting to like the 350 Legend because, in my area, all safe shots are under 200 yards . It will take the largest game that I will encounter locally. Also, 350 Legend will also fit in an AR platform, ammo is relatively inexpensive which makes it a practical ranch type rifle. Got two very nice bolt action rifles in 308 and 300 Win Mag but rarely need the range and accuracy they provide.
If you like 308 why not 30-06. It’s little faster than 308 and 7mm-08 with more punch and recoil feels about the same to me. ( I do know the recoil number is a little higher but not that noticeable to me.) I hunted everything with 30-06 using 150 gr core lockt bullet for 10 years and only one or two animals went more than 20-25 yards before dying, but most folded up right there. There was only one animal that was shot over 300 yards that I can remember. I love 25-06 also, and I would own a 6.5 CR but with a 25-06, 270 win and 280 rem already didn’t make sense because I believe all those rounds do what I would need better than that round. I now use a rem 700 stainless 280 rem with custom carbon fiber stock for everything I hunt including deer antelope elk pig and exotics( mostly because it is light, recoil is minimal to me, has a high BC bullet, and it is a sub moa tack driver that can easily shoot out to 500 yards if needed) but I still occasionally take that old rem 700 bdl 30-06 out deer hunting just because every so often. 30-06 is an old round but timelessly does the job well.
I never sold the Enfield and bought a Browning BLR in 7-08, (About $ 450 with scope mount and extra magazine) plus a very expensive (about $400) Leupold 1.5 x 6 , Could not afford a Zeiss or Swarovsky, Year 1984, Often you flush deer at 30 yds and the 3x9 on the Enfield is to powerfull to get them in sight. Now a 1x8 or 1x10 Scope for the Enfield
.257 Roberts is one of my very favorite but got into "old" cartridges and like .45-70, .45 LC, and .405 Win and .30-40 Krag
Love your vids,you are very knowledgeable and give use a non bias proven opinion.
PS I would bet that half the people in the comment section,could not hit a deer at 300 yards
Another cartridge that I think you're missing out on is the 300 Savage, which used to be incredibly popular, especially when fired from the Savage 99 lever action rifle.
Hard to find ammo. I got a reloaded setup for it and let my brother use it since he's in the UP and isn't in the limited rifle zone. Good for close brush
250 savage as well!
@@travisrolison9646 I wouldn't think a high speed Spitzer bullet would be that effective in the brush.
@@dundonrl I loaded them with 150 grn rounded Spitzer . I forget the name, Spitzer like but a roundish nose
I would have liked to get 165 grn round nosed for it.
It should do just fine at close range in the brush. You shouldn't shoot through heavy brush anyway and only use brush to get close.
Short ranged deer coming in to his blind or maybe running into one at close range the lever action should do well.
I used to work at the Winchester factory in Oxford, MS. The large tubs that were used to collect the bullets were used throughout the plant. Sometimes there were left over shell cases and suck that were stuck in the tubs. I noticed the 9mm projectile fit in an un trimmed .223 shell case and instantly thought it would be a great little round especially when loaded with a combination of pistol and rifle powders for various barrel lengths of AR style rifles.
What ? No 270 Win ? The best cartridge you have on the table is a tie IMHO with the 7mm/08 (my choice) and the 25/06. The 6.5CM gets honorable mention and just may be the lone best round for deer, time will tell. I've been hunting with it for the last 3 seasons and even with the 143 ELDX's have found it to really knock them off their hooves with only 38-40 gr. of powder. Mostly through and throughs with great blood loss, internal damage and less meat damage.
Yep. I haven't taken my 270 or 308 out for whitetail since I got my 6.5. Trying some Sako super hammerheads this year for bullets. I was really happy with the federal terminal ascent last year.
.243 Win is possibly the most popular hunting cartridge ever developed - the workhorse of deer stalkers...
Under 300 yards the 308 outperforms the 7mm08 and the 6.5 creedmore. Unless you are recoil sensitive i would definitely go with the 308.
Any decent recoil pad will do wonders at reducing felt recoil. Speaking from personal experience.
A 30-30 is still here because its a hammer! old design or not, its been perfection from day one! I've killed more variety of game with this round than most because its the devil within a certain range. Deer, Bear, antelope, elk, pigs, coyote. If you can see their eyes, it works! yes, I am a fan! Silver tip Winchester rule!
The 350 legend also has the advantage of being very indifferent to barrel length as well as good subsonic options.
because it's essentially a rimless .357 maximum (meant to work better in AR's)... it's a hyped up pistol cartridge, shooting pistol bullets lol. That is why it's not amounted to much; now if they had made the case length closer to .38-72, but straight walled, and spec'd it to use 200+gr rifle bullets, it might be useful.
@@wildrangeringreen true but they won’t do that because in the states it’s used the case length cannot exceed 1 and 7/8th inch
Which states? Because even .45-70 wouldn't be allowed if that were the case.
@@wildrangeringreen it isn’t in Michigan.
The law here is .35 caliber or larger, straight wall case no longer than 1 7/8
Good job. I was one of those that commented on that 500 yard rifle. Great review. I am really enjoying your channel.
Love your videos But....who shoots 200 grain bullets in a .308 Winchester? A bit unrealistic.
Sorry, typo.
@@backfire It's hard to find a good editor, nobody seems to want a job these days! Ha Ha.
So what was the actual bullet weight on the .308? Thanks.
The families of the '06 and .308 cartridges, are some of the best cartridges that can do so much. .270 Win and .280 Rem have great ballistics.
7-08! All game in NA can be taken with it a close range and it’s got great frontal area. It’s got larger bullets available than the 6.5’s for large game. 6.8 western is also great for 300 yards and way way beyond! 6mm arc and 6mm GT would be awesome to with more support for deer and down. 6.8 is too awesome not to pick right now. They need to make that Springfield 2020 in 6.8 western and they would have hands down the best rifle in the non custom market.
For under 300 yards the 7-08 has nothing on its parent cartridge. Sure you can shoot 120s with less recoil, but you can find .30 bullets from 110 grains on up.
Wesley. I would take a 280ai over the 6.8 western all day. Bigger projectile at the same velocity with simalar bc. Non magnum. Holds at least one more round in the magazine. 6.8 western is basically a 270wsm with fast twist barrel.
@@JAKDRZR The BC’s will be better for the 6.8 when they start loading for it. It’s going to slightly edge out the 280ai in a short action. The 7rsaum is sweet too. Any of those 3 are good to go. We’ll see how popular they can make that 6.8…. I will give you that the bullet chose is better for the 280ai but the 6.8 will have less recoil making spotting shots and follow up shots easier.
@@CorePathway Um have you seen how many 7mm bullets they make up to and over 200 gr? They have higher BC’s by weight than the 308’s…. The 175 7mm eldx has a .689 BC. The 7mm also have a better sectional density. Arguably, the 6.5 is the low end of frontal surface area, sectional density and bullet weight for elk, the 7mm is the sweet spot for deer and elk. However I do like .308 bullets, I just prefer to shoot 190’s out of my 300 wsm…
@@wesleyturner1979 as of right now I think Berger 170gr EOL bullet has the highest bc for .270 cal at .662. The 175eldx hornady in .280 is .689. They are very simalar in muzzle velocity at those weights and recoil between the two is basically identical. Both less then a 30-06. Also the 6.8 I think uses more powder if I’m not mistaken. The 6.8 is a short action but it is a magnum. I really like the idea of having a extra shell in the mag with the standard action. I’m not against the 6.8 and I’m sure once it gets bigger there will be even more bullets for it. It’s nice the .270cal stuff is getting attention now. From what I hear 25cal is next to blow up.
The 30 wcf aka 30-30 is what I grew up with (58 years old) now.
It's grandfather the 38-55 in a modern lever action hand-loading to its fullest potential with the proper size bullets will take anything in the lower 48 within reasonable range.
And it's considered a straight wall cartridge.
I wish Hornaday would make a. 377 LEVERevolution bullet for it.
7mm-08. Woohoo!!
If you want to go back in the 1890’s look at the 7x57 which came out in 1892-3 and 30-06 based off it among others. The 257 & 6mm are both basically the same case as 7x57. All very useful. I have a 7x57 which is close to the 308 based 7-08 ballistically. Hard to find those calibers though.
would have loved to see the 260 rem on that list
Ballistically the 6.5 CM the 260 Rem and the 6.5x55 are identical. What you can do with one, you can do with the others. They have to be loaded to different pressures to do this, but in factory loads they are identical. Of course if the 6.5x55 was loaded to the pressures of the other two it would outstrip them.
You missed out on my personal favorite the .270 Winchester. I have shot Rabbits, Coyotes, Antelope, Mule deer, Elk and Moose with it and all have been 1shot kills. My favorite bullet is the 130 grain Barnes TSX for deer, elk and moose. I will rethink that as the 110 grain TSX makes spectacular kills on Deer. I plan on using it on Antelope next year in Wyoming. Starting at 3500 FPS, it shoots like a laser out to 350 yards and will make soup out of the Heart and lungs. What more could you ask for. It also just caresses the shoulder
Thank you for writing this article. It is nice to see someone make sense. I recently read an article about what they said was the new super hunting round, the 6.8 westerner. They then should a ballistic comparison using 175 grain target bullets with other long range cartridges at 1,000 yards. Dumb, dumb dumb. It doesn't matter how much bullet drop or wind deflection you have at 1000 yards. If you are shooting game at that range you are an idiot. It takes over a second for the bullet to cross that distance and you seldom have range flags set out to judge the wind. Also the poor animal could move enough to make your perfectly aimed bullet either miss completely or worse hit the animal badly and wound it so that you have to track it down after walking 10 football fields to where the blood trail starts. Chances are the poor animal will suffer a horrible death from that shot and you would never find it.
I just don't get it. Shooting steel at 1000 yards is interesting and the .270 is more than capable of ringing the steel. Taking shots at game at that distance is not hunting but rather it is sniping, if you are successful and being a real slob otherwise.
Right on
@Backfire. I don’t agree that there aren’t good bullets for the 25-06 when reloading. Berger, Nosler, hornady all make a very nice bullet in 115gr that destroys a 6.5 creed to 600 yards. You can get 3100fps at the muzzle with these.
Agreed. Reloading for a 25-06 gives you much better selection and a “hotter” load than he showed on his computer screen. For 300 yards zero at 200 and you have a 6 inch bullet drop at 300 yards.
Thanks for the shorter range calibers…..I hunt in the woods of the NE and we rarely shoot over 150 yds…Max. I shot a deer at 150 once….most of my shots are almost in bow or crossbow range….you dont see the deer until they are almost on you. I have many of the calibers you reviewed….and actually love the new 350 legend….light recoil and cheap ammo. But I use my 30/30 or 45/70 more then any other guns. My sons use my 308 and 7mm08. Although if we stay home to hunt instead of my camp….its shotgun only……I hate shotguns.
When are you going to make the video you mentioned before in a recent video specifically for the 7mm-08? Thanks for making these informative videos!
If it is made, please pronounce it as “7 millimeter”, not 7 mm! Just a pet peeve of mine. MM is an abbreviation of millimeter, not the actual word as it was meant to be used.
Same as how some people use “V” instead of versus in legal references or sports competitions.
Okay, rant over.
@@ronsamborski6230 If you don't have anything good to say, why say anything at all. If you have so much time on your hands, why don't you correct everyone else on UA-cam and write to all the online retailers and ammo manufacturers as well and tell them how you feel.
@@archstanton9703 Well, EXCUUUSE ME! I just brought up the way that the host of the video pronounces it as “MM” rather than millimeter. And no, I don’t have so much time on my hands to comment on everything on UA-cam or to write to all of the ammo manufacturers and retailers either. I am allowed to make comments on the way people say things, aren’t I?
And I don’t need your permission, either.
@@ronsamborski6230 I agree that you are free to make comments, but you don't need to get your panties in a knot. You replied to my comment instead of making your own new comment directed at the maker of the video. Life is too short to get upset about little things. No harm, no foul. Have a good day!
One of my brothers in law has used 30 30 for over 40 years and he gets 4 or more deer every year and a few boar and even an elk. He knows how to hunt and got to within 80 yards of an elk and used a heavy bullet.