Can we just admire how, _after_ the "Jurati Borg" used Starfleet reclaimed Borg tech to take control of a Starfleet armada [season 2], Starfleet would think it was a great idea to tie every ship into yet another system where all their ships were under networked control [season 3]. Even the Cylons shook their head in despair at that one.....
I'm convinced star trek and battlestar galactica happen in the same universe and that is one of the reasons why Entire fleet gets networked earth is attack by robotic enemies obly one older ship that isn't networked can save the day that sounds familiar doesn't it
The Borg started as an amazing adversary. They were a virtually unstoppable and soulless boogie-man that either killed or assimilated everything they encountered. Post-TNG Trek seemed to do with the Borg the same thing Twilight did for vampires: convert the soulless boogie-men to a bunch of sparkling puppies
There was also Sevens original unimatrix from Survival Instinct for a time, though they had their link cut and presumably aren't around much longer. I think XB is a play on Ex-Bee, as in former drone.
I was about to write the same thing. They were presented as a real threat, and subsequent episodes in TNG and rest of the series made them less formidable for the sake of writing a 48 min tv episode. By the time Voyager rolled around, they were a joke.
@@badwolf66 That reference went right over your head. Didn't even need to duck. Oh, you'd like me to connect the dots for you, lead you from A to B to C, so that your puny mind could comprehend? How boring.
Another issue. U mention the borg released from the artifact were killed which is inconsistent with first contact. They never say that and I would suspect those borg survived until they ran out of power and went dormant. I would’ve hoped that somebody would’ve gone through and picked up those borg and not left them out in space for them to be picked up by some random ship leading to a borg assimilation outbreak.
I'm glad to see you are back Lore reloaded. Excellent work as always I think the Borg were a better adversary in TNT and at some point in Voyager the writers just seemingly threw it away.
While it's still one of my favorite Trek films, First Contact permanently ruined the Borg as interesting adversaries. Giving them a Queen effectively made them Bond Villains in space.
There was a conflict and lack of imagination when it came to the Borg. Not understanding the nature of the collective resulted in the many fragments of "collectives" within the different series/movies. Introducing Hugh and not understanding what "reassimilation" entailed was a "hugh" mistake in the story. The collective assimilate countless individuals but reassimilating one "disconnected" Borg drone somehow disrupted an entire ship? Unlikely...
You are assuming the department of temporal mechanics didnt investigate the juradi situation in Picard season 2 but I am sure they did as much as the borg cooperative would allow. If the borg cooperative didn’t want to share info not much star fleet was gonna do to fight them on it
Lore reloaded Good to see you on here again. What do you think about Rachel Garrett of the Enterprise c being in the new Star Trek Discovery movie I just read about it. What are your thoughts?? Think this is a good idea or is it going to be destroyed by Discovery section 31?
The cooperative are one of the most fleshed out splinter factions of the borg they are an entire friendly faction in star trek online with many missions and npc's you can interact with and according to most notions star trek online As part of the Star Trek franchise, the game itself has to be considered soft-canon, as any new TV series or movie could easily contradict its stories and settings.Just look them up on the sto wiki
The one thing I would take a little bit of issue with is how you reference the artifact, and how the Federation let the Romulans access thst tech. I think the artifact was in romulan space and I don’t think it would look good for federation to seize control even if their star was destroyed; it was still their territory. I get your thinking but at this point the romulans were already weak and forcing the issue would likely have been seen as a political risk. Not saying I agree but I can see that being the logic used by the top brass Curious any thoughts
I do find it somewhat interesting that the Borg were more or less the same fot who knows how long but started to have diverging groups almost immediately after encountering humanity. As if humans being assimilated added an element or desire for variety that no other species provided. It could be poor writing but it does seem to fit within the rules of that universe. Everyone is set in their ways and pretty much just one kind if thing until Starfleet comes along and introduces new ways of thinking that inevitably lead to problems.
Most civilizations that are controlled by AI just don’t survive a run in with Starfleet. All it takes is a starship Captain talking a computer into blowing itself up, or a few phaser shots. The Borg faired much better, thanks to being decentralized (originally?).
Yeah, the treatment of X-Bs in Picard season 1 was depressing. All those people exploited by the collective, then some freed if only partially by the Romulans (sure they might have effectively been under house arrest, but at least their minds were their own) only for Seven of all people to take control of that cube and thereby exploit those people even more... Picard season 1 had its moments but all that dark brutal storytelling isn't what I go to Star Trek for. Maybe for an episode or two at a time, not a whole season.
I’m sorry but how exactly is the cooperative evil? The only reason they reestablished their hive was because belligerent factions amongst their people were fighting against each other and were threatening their current way of life and safety. And I didn’t get the impression while watching the episode that the cooperative was malevolent they were simply seeking peace through the unity of the hive mind as a last resort
"New Collective"... seems when Janeway aided after discovering a 2nd break away faction the ones SHE found an aided was the ones that succeeded. It was basically like "Maj Kira of Borg..." sorta speak... the Cooperative of Borg/Resistance im pretty sure was born.. an honestly think Voyager did the "We're The Other Borg... an We're gonna kick the ACTUAL Borg Collective's Ass" kinda thing the best
Picard season two ruined the borg, by making them wanting to join the federation. But they redeemed with season three. Especially using the gen z crew to be borg.
I miss the Borg from TNG. Voyagers Borgs were ok at times and im not against changing tactics to achieve an end goal. But they became to personable. STP absolutely ruined whats left of the Borg. Slightly redeming them in Picard S3.
And yes, the girardi collective. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it! I enjoyed that first episode immensely and after the beginning of the second episode it went down the hill from there the whole season.... Thank God for Picard season 3
Hugh gets forcibly assimilated, made to act against his will and that episode of next generation thinks hes capable of giving consent in this state to stay in the collective. Imagine if that plot played out for picard when he was assimilated lol
The Borg are a Voyager antagonist, not a TNG antagonist They barely feature in TNG and have no interesting qualities. Just a dice moving forward, menacingly The only halfway interesting feature they have with the Enterprise is first contact, and only because Patrick Stuart is a bloody good AC-TOR That's why they had to write Annika into the Picard series, or the connection to the Borg would be too thin
How are they not an antagonist in TNG if there was a whole plotline of Picard getting assimilated and the battle of wolf359? If They weren't an antagonist TNG than DS9 wouldn't exist.
@@uberhaxorzskelletor they _appeared_ in TNG, but they don't appear enough to be TNG antagonists Same reason why Q isn't a Voyager antagonist despite appearing
My dude, I love you, but the Borg were infinitely closer to communist and fascist. Maybe you were making a joke I didn't pick up on, but I'm just saying.
Can we just admire how, _after_ the "Jurati Borg" used Starfleet reclaimed Borg tech to take control of a Starfleet armada [season 2], Starfleet would think it was a great idea to tie every ship into yet another system where all their ships were under networked control [season 3].
Even the Cylons shook their head in despair at that one.....
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
I'm convinced star trek and battlestar galactica happen in the same universe and that is one of the reasons why
Entire fleet gets networked earth is attack by robotic enemies obly one older ship that isn't networked can save the day that sounds familiar doesn't it
The Borg started as an amazing adversary. They were a virtually unstoppable and soulless boogie-man that either killed or assimilated everything they encountered. Post-TNG Trek seemed to do with the Borg the same thing Twilight did for vampires: convert the soulless boogie-men to a bunch of sparkling puppies
There was also Sevens original unimatrix from Survival Instinct for a time, though they had their link cut and presumably aren't around much longer.
I think XB is a play on Ex-Bee, as in former drone.
"They reached out to the USS Voyager for assistance...which, is NEVER a good idea..." That actually made me laugh out loud LMFAO well done, sir.
He forced us to watch hugh in Discovery. I never planned on watching that scene again after Picard season 1. Thank you so much 😂😂😂😂
Good summary, great to have another LR vid 👍😊
OT but with the "new" Data combined personalities android having Lore in his brain, was that a case of Lore Uploaded?
The Borg were at their best as a concept in Q Who after that it was downhill
I was about to write the same thing. They were presented as a real threat, and subsequent episodes in TNG and rest of the series made them less formidable for the sake of writing a 48 min tv episode. By the time Voyager rolled around, they were a joke.
villains arent at their best when they are unstoppable. at all
"We are the borg. We will make you assemble flat pack furniture and eat meatballs. Resistance is futile"
... Freaking Swedish...
The Original Borg are now properly dead it appears, Picard season 3 made sure of that!
How little do you mortals understand time. Must you be so linear?
The Borg were always destined to be destroyed in every timeline in every universe, Picard season 2 confirmed it, so I'm not linear at all.@@JarOfRats
@@badwolf66 That reference went right over your head. Didn't even need to duck. Oh, you'd like me to connect the dots for you, lead you from A to B to C, so that your puny mind could comprehend? How boring.
@@JarOfRats You so wish to be Q from "All good Things Parts 1 and 2" 😆
He’s alive!
Another issue. U mention the borg released from the artifact were killed which is inconsistent with first contact.
They never say that and I would suspect those borg survived until they ran out of power and went dormant.
I would’ve hoped that somebody would’ve gone through and picked up those borg and not left them out in space for them to be picked up by some random ship leading to a borg assimilation outbreak.
I'm glad to see you are back Lore reloaded. Excellent work as always I think the Borg were a better adversary in TNT and at some point in Voyager the writers just seemingly threw it away.
Jurati Borg is a bad joke. We assimilate with your consent only.
terminally ill, lost in space
To Mr lore reloaded..
How would you bring back the romulan star empire to full strength back in the star trek universe ??
Good one
While it's still one of my favorite Trek films, First Contact permanently ruined the Borg as interesting adversaries. Giving them a Queen effectively made them Bond Villains in space.
There was a conflict and lack of imagination when it came to the Borg. Not understanding the nature of the collective resulted in the many fragments of "collectives" within the different series/movies. Introducing Hugh and not understanding what "reassimilation" entailed was a "hugh" mistake in the story. The collective assimilate countless individuals but reassimilating one "disconnected" Borg drone somehow disrupted an entire ship? Unlikely...
Jurati borg was insanely dumb and dropped like a hot pile of dog doo into the trash. Thank goodness.
You are assuming the department of temporal mechanics didnt investigate the juradi situation in Picard season 2 but I am sure they did as much as the borg cooperative would allow.
If the borg cooperative didn’t want to share info not much star fleet was gonna do to fight them on it
What about the third season of Star Trek Picard. When the Borg made a Alliance with the change links?
I counted that as the OG - though it's possible I shouldn't have
Lore reloaded Good to see you on here again. What do you think about Rachel Garrett of the Enterprise c being in the new Star Trek Discovery movie I just read about it. What are your thoughts?? Think this is a good idea or is it going to be destroyed by Discovery section 31?
3:35 excuse me, but if I want to turn order into chaos, who'd be a better help than Insaneway? 😆
Thank god Picard Season 3 retconned that Happy Friendly Borg from Picards Season 2
Hmmmm, what would you do with a group of Borg if you could control them?
The cooperative are one of the most fleshed out splinter factions of the borg they are an entire friendly faction in star trek online with many missions and npc's you can interact with and according to most notions star trek online As part of the Star Trek franchise, the game itself has to be considered soft-canon, as any new TV series or movie could easily contradict its stories and settings.Just look them up on the sto wiki
The one thing I would take a little bit of issue with is how you reference the artifact, and how the Federation let the Romulans access thst tech.
I think the artifact was in romulan space and I don’t think it would look good for federation to seize control even if their star was destroyed; it was still their territory.
I get your thinking but at this point the romulans were already weak and forcing the issue would likely have been seen as a political risk.
Not saying I agree but I can see that being the logic used by the top brass
Curious any thoughts
I heard that Lore was framed for what he did to the Borg and that it was in fact a time traveling UA-camr that’s responsible for what happened.
I do find it somewhat interesting that the Borg were more or less the same fot who knows how long but started to have diverging groups almost immediately after encountering humanity. As if humans being assimilated added an element or desire for variety that no other species provided. It could be poor writing but it does seem to fit within the rules of that universe. Everyone is set in their ways and pretty much just one kind if thing until Starfleet comes along and introduces new ways of thinking that inevitably lead to problems.
Most civilizations that are controlled by AI just don’t survive a run in with Starfleet. All it takes is a starship Captain talking a computer into blowing itself up, or a few phaser shots. The Borg faired much better, thanks to being decentralized (originally?).
Yeah, the treatment of X-Bs in Picard season 1 was depressing. All those people exploited by the collective, then some freed if only partially by the Romulans (sure they might have effectively been under house arrest, but at least their minds were their own) only for Seven of all people to take control of that cube and thereby exploit those people even more... Picard season 1 had its moments but all that dark brutal storytelling isn't what I go to Star Trek for. Maybe for an episode or two at a time, not a whole season.
Ascribing Human political ideologies to the Borg is... weird.
I’m sorry but how exactly is the cooperative evil? The only reason they reestablished their hive was because belligerent factions amongst their people were fighting against each other and were threatening their current way of life and safety. And I didn’t get the impression while watching the episode that the cooperative was malevolent they were simply seeking peace through the unity of the hive mind as a last resort
When your writers want to add factions or leaders to the Borg, you know they do NOT understand the concept.
"New Collective"... seems when Janeway aided after discovering a 2nd break away faction the ones SHE found an aided was the ones that succeeded. It was basically like "Maj Kira of Borg..." sorta speak... the Cooperative of Borg/Resistance im pretty sure was born.. an honestly think Voyager did the "We're The Other Borg... an We're gonna kick the ACTUAL Borg Collective's Ass" kinda thing the best
Picard season two ruined the borg, by making them wanting to join the federation. But they redeemed with season three. Especially using the gen z crew to be borg.
I miss the Borg from TNG.
Voyagers Borgs were ok at times and im not against changing tactics to achieve an end goal. But they became to personable.
STP absolutely ruined whats left of the Borg. Slightly redeming them in Picard S3.
And yes, the girardi collective. Oh my gosh, I can't believe it! I enjoyed that first episode immensely and after the beginning of the second episode it went down the hill from there the whole season.... Thank God for Picard season 3
0:22 if you're comparing the Borg to fascism then you don't know what fascism means.
Hugh gets forcibly assimilated, made to act against his will and that episode of next generation thinks hes capable of giving consent in this state to stay in the collective. Imagine if that plot played out for picard when he was assimilated lol
Look how they massacred my boy! 😢
The Borg are a Voyager antagonist, not a TNG antagonist
They barely feature in TNG and have no interesting qualities. Just a dice moving forward, menacingly
The only halfway interesting feature they have with the Enterprise is first contact, and only because Patrick Stuart is a bloody good AC-TOR
That's why they had to write Annika into the Picard series, or the connection to the Borg would be too thin
How are they not an antagonist in TNG if there was a whole plotline of Picard getting assimilated and the battle of wolf359?
If They weren't an antagonist TNG than DS9 wouldn't exist.
@@uberhaxorzskelletor they _appeared_ in TNG, but they don't appear enough to be TNG antagonists
Same reason why Q isn't a Voyager antagonist despite appearing
Hello
I must say as socialist compairing the borg to comunists is very off the mark
My dude, I love you, but the Borg were infinitely closer to communist and fascist. Maybe you were making a joke I didn't pick up on, but I'm just saying.
LoRe ReLoAdEd iSn'T DeAd!
What’s going on man? 500 views per day now? I guess you haven’t been edgy enough. You should sell some more cereal.
He’s alive!