Since this frequently involves taking kids to daycare, daycare centers should have a mandatory wellness check if an expected child does not come to daycare. Call the parents then the backup emergency number.
All the schools/daycares I have worked at have this policy in place. As a lead teacher I would call parents 8:30-9am. "Good morning, I noticed that ...is not in class this morning." If I could not call the front office will call. If we did not hear back we would try again at lunchtime. Even if a parent called in the morning to say a child would be out. I or the other teachers call during lunch or on the evening to see how the child is doing. Also, if a parent is running late, call one or both parents. Things can happen at pick ups as well. If a parent has other children, if they are being picked up by another parent, aunt, nanny, grandparent etc. We have had close calls when one parent thought another parent would pick up or they forgot what day of the week it was. Things happen. We also have to watch out for little ones and parents. I don't think she should have gone to prison. The guilt she is feeling not only that, the loss of a child, that is hell on earth. I cannot imagine what she and her husband are going though. As a new mom myself, that is one of my biggest fears..
I agree with you on several points, and not just as a health care provider. As a human. Anyone that says they've never operated on autopilot is lying. And the recommendation to place something in the back seat ROUTINELY, not just when the child is there, is a great self check. When I read stories like this my first instinct is rage. Then I think of the things I've seen in my job, my own thought processes, the times I have been in autopilot and I feel for all.
Yes absolutely. I got into the habit of putting my purse in the back when mine were babies. I worked 12 hour shifts, full time college and had 3 kids under 3. I got to school more than once, went to get my purse out of the back and "hi baby!"
I keep the diaper bag in the backseat to help to always check back there to make sure I don’t leave them! It’s a big fear and I remember watching a special on Oprah when I was 8 on this topic so it’s stuck with me all these years!
the people who say it will never happen to them must be neruotypical or on top of things always because I just can't relate to never being caught on autopilot etc.
I never felt for a second that anyone good could let their child stay in the back seat of a car alone in the sun. I thought absolutely the worst of these people. Until I once told one of my closest friends "Hey, you can just give me your purse, I'll hold it up here instead of reaching behind you." She said it was her way of establishing a routine so that she would never forget her child in the back seat, because sometimes, when they just feel like being quiet, or go to sleep, it can be very easy to forget they're there. It chilled me to the bone, because I am super close to her and her family, and I KNOW she's an amazing, top of the line mother. She loves her children dearly. She'd never for a second leave them alone in a car by choice. And she admitted she could forget. Ever since then, I have reevaluated my positions on these people. Yes, there are people who even admit to being gone "just for a minute," and they "thought it'd be fine." Those people are jerks and shouldn't have house plants let alone children. But when you realize that it's so easy for anyone to forget, it's so easy to understand the panic that sets in when you realize what happened. I wish this mother and family absolutely nothing but the best in this impossibly hard time in their lives, and I know that nothing will ever be the same for them, no matter the outcome of the criminal proceedings. I cannot fathom what she's feeling right now, and worse, it's all because she was trying to do a good thing. What an awful situation.
I'm really glad that you've changed your perspective. I did the same last year. I don't think I usually look for people to 'pay' for accidents, but there's something so horrific about children dying from hyperthermia that it is almost human nature to seek justice for that child. All too often, unfortunately, that comes down on the people who will already suffer for the rest of their lives for their mistake. If you really want justice for these poor kids, it's best to tell every parent you know about what you know about hot car deaths, and urge them to keep important items in the backseat with their child (such as a shoe they are wearing, their purse, briefcase, phone, wallet, or-- better yet-- buy alarms that people have designed just for this reason). Me personally-- every baby shower I go to-- I am buying one of those alarms. People are often gifted baby monitors, so why not car alert systems? You might worry about being a Debbie Downer, but the more people we can save from these tragedies the better.
It scares me that there are people out there who seriously believe this could never happen to them. That means they probably don't take precautions to prevent it.
I've been researching this for two days, and the amount of people out there who think they could never do that and someone who does is a 'monster' is astounding. I've left comments for them letting them know that they are more at risk if they don't devise and execute a system to prevent such a tragic mistake.
You can believe I'm going to share this. I was once that mother that was angry and calling for the heads of those who left their child in the car. Then it ALMOST happened to me. The thing that saved it from not happening to totality? He was 4 at the time and he spoke up as we got closer to my work and further from his sitter's house. Things were not as they were supposed to be that morning because there had been a medical emergency the night before with another family member. I was not supposed to be going to his sitter's that morning, I was on autopilot. My heart dropped so fast and it was that moment that I understood how it has happened to others. That moment is what has changed my way of thinking about everything. I will be sharing this video because I am honestly so tired of all the mothers I know who still think the way that I used to.
One of the most powerful messages you have EVER made ZDogg. Thank you- my deepest sympathy to the subject family in this video. May peace come back to all of them.
I initially am the one person who felt outrage but, on reflection, was because I could not understand why or how this happens. Thank you for doing what you do ZDogg because you allowed one more nurse to have a bit more empathy today
I work in the medical field. My first child was born before we had to place them in the back facing the rear. Never had a problem. My second child was three months old I had just recently returned to work and yes he had fallen asleep and I passed the babysitters house and didn’t notice till I got to work(thank God)and had to turn around and go all the way back. It happens. I agree anyone could have made this mistake. I support Nicole. It happens and child seats need an alarm.
@Warm Soft Kitty Wow. Do you just spit diarrhea out of your mouth or does the fecal matter originate in your rotted brain? Reading comprehension. She did NOT purposefully leave her kid in the backseat. First of all, a child that age is REQUIRED to go in the backseat, rear-facing, for safety. Secondly, she drove past the babysitter and noticed WHEN she arrived at work. If a kid is asleep, silent, and the car seat is usually in the car, it's no more noticeable than leaving a jacket in the backseat on a warm day. So much more tragic on an unimaginable scale, yes. But it doesn't create any more attention at the moment than any other random object if a person is tired or distracted. And we all know that parents are NEVER tired or distracted. 🙄 There are monsters that do this on purpose. Then there are parents who have a moment of distraction. If you can't tell the difference or offer any productive suggestions, then you ARE NOT HUMAN, YOU SANCTIMONIOUS POS!!!
as a computer science major, this is something we look at. GPS programs on phones like waze now allow reminders to be set when the car stops to check for passengers. The hope being to reduce this. There are more things to do but people need to step up to this problem and find new and effective reminders, to reduce this number.
I suspect that many of the people calling for this mother's head want to demonize her BECAUSE this could happen to anyone. If we picture Nicole as a neglectful, bad person, then Remy's death becomes a consequence of Nicole's bad behavior, and would never have happened if she were in the care of a "good" parent. We feel safer if there is a reason for tragedy.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm in graduate school for my SLP license, my husband is a full-time engineer, and we have a beautiful one year old girl. This could ABSOLUTELY happen to us.
This outcome was not her intentinally desire. It was a horrific, tragic event. As a pediatric nurse, I've seen child abuse and neglect, this event was not abuse. Poor child, poor mama. Everyone is suffering here. I have empathy for this mother's anguish.
Thank you so much for making this video. I know Nicole and Pete through my sister who worked with Nicole at one time. Nicole and Pete are wonderful people and love Remi with all their heart. Thank you for putting it in to perspective for everyone. I live in Roseburg and can say that we have had our fair share of tragedies. First we had the UCC shooting on October 1st, 2015 and then we had this tragedy with the Engler Family. Nicole has support from all over the world. Your video was shared to a Facebook group called Support For Nicole Engler and Family. That's where I found it. It brought me to tears, because it's such a powerful message. Thank you again!
Thank you for making a serious video about the topic. It's so easy for people to judge (I never! I wouldn't! Because I care about my children!), but if you're not living in the shoes of that person - good and bad - you really don't know that you wouldn't be exactly where they are now if it had been your spirit in control. Frankly, as morbid as it may be, if people really want her to suffer more than she already has, they should hope she lives a long life. Because losing a child, even when you're not at fault, is a hell enough on it's own and no matter how much good happens from this point, the mother will never forget the day or specific image of finding her lifeless child.
Zdog I have never felt you were more spot on then on this topic. It’s horrific and it could happen to anyone. I have 5 children total. I went through nursing school with little ones and now many years later a high pressure job with more little ones. I never, knock on wood, left my child in the car but I could have. I have driven on autopilot too many times to count, especially when I worked night shift. I feel damn lucky that it hasn’t happened to me and now I check my back seat every time I pull into work. It could happen to anyone!
Maybe a monitor, that is left in the car, that triggers your phone. Something like, a ring alert, or a vibration on a Fitbit. "It's 98 degrees in your car. Is there anyone or anything in your car that could be affected!" Text sent or just a quick "Hot Car Alert!" May not be a great idea, just one I had.
We have cars that park themselves, drive themselves, GPS, backup cameras ..I agree with you Karoleigh..I use to feel such outrage but this just made it about being human.. I have always wondered how this could happen and today I actually understand. Tears of empathy, tears of compassion...I believe that one day she will be united with her little one..
Some car manufacturers are starting to implement some safety features. Chevy for instance will vibrate your seat, ding, and flash a message if the backseat is sensed to be used.
The attitude of compassion you’re trying to impart reminds me of a faith component called *grace. We can let others off the hook because we’re not perfect either. God bless your humility and transparency in this, Dr D. We need more practitioners like you.
This is such a powerful response to such a heart-wrenching tragedy. I absolutely agree that an added feature to cars that alerts you in some way would be fantastic. They have alarms to warn you to put your seatbelt on when you start the car, surely it's not that difficult to have the same alarm when seatbelts are still attached when it's been turned off? I can't imagine the pain that this mother is feeling. At this point, putting her in prison would do nothing but give her time to fester in her trauma. She needs support and a loving community around her.
That poor woman. I agree with your autopilot statement. She was probably following her everyday routine. Just think she's in the car thinking of all the notes she has to do, the patients she to see, what she's going to cool for dinner. She pulls into the parking spot and went to work. It was a tragic mistake. I constantly drive on autopilot...
Something that work if the idea can be spread is to place some object in the car seat, a stuffed animal or large ball. When the child is placed in the seat the object gets placed on the dash or in the front passenger seat or hanging from the mirror as a visual reminder. When the child is removed from the seat the object is placed back in the seat. Can't place the child there without removing the object and it's a visual reminder to the parent.
Good idea Rob! More laws won't fix this. The only answer is to train ourselves. I have a dangerous job, and I have conciously put what I've termed as "safety habits" like this in place, I can attest that they've saved me many times.
We should all share with young parents. Nicole deserves only kindness and compassion. My heart totally breaks for her and her husband. What about a pad with a light sensor visible above the car seat that is set off when weight is put on a sensor. This could be simple and inexpensive to create. Like those sensors in talking greeting cards. Thank you for this and the useful ideas.
This is horrific, scary and very plausible does any of us. As a healthcare professional I think we've all been on autopilot especially while driving going to school Etc. We need to support her and others that this is happened to. May God be with you in your time of need.
As a mom, grandma, and NP I can empathize with this mom, while I can’t stand the thought that I could ever forget and leave my adorable granddaughter in the car, I know that in just the right circumstances it potentially could happen. I think the conversation should include safety features in cars and in our processes with routines but should also include recognizing that we can’t do it all and if we try there are going to be mistakes made, things forgotten. I think we need to have better work/life balance, not keep trying to work too many hours and be super parent etc. When my kids were growing up we made the decision to essentially live on one income- we lived very modestly in order for me be home with our kids. We were disciplined with our finances, didn’t buy a house that we couldn’t pay for, didn’t have new cars, didn’t go on many vacations... but, It was worth it. Also there is soo much pressure placed on medical professionals (I am sure in other fields but I can only speak for the field I am in) to see more patients, do more, more, more, more that it’s increasingly difficult to leave it all at work. I find myself often thinking of what I need to do long before my work day starts. My heart breaks for these parents and pray that they find peace somehow. Thank you zdogg - this is by far the most impactful video of yours I have watched.
A tragedy that could happen to anyone. My heart goes out to that mom and father. That’s why back seat remind should exists to remind people that the child is in the back seat sleeping!
I'm torn on this one because I'm an ER physician, a mother and a forgetful human in my daily life. The mother in me feels like I should be outraged but the human in me knows that it could happen to anyone. Why should a mother be judged harder than a father? I don't agree with that because women are already under so much pressure, please don't stigmatize us any further. I can't even imagine finding my daughter like that, I know she would scream for me, hurt herself trying to escape out of her seat. I know I would die inside the very moment I would see my dead child. I hope she gets help, there's no greater sentence than to go on living knowing you caused your child's death. Because this has always been one of my greatest fear, I've developed my own system: I always use Waze no matter where I go, whether or not my 1 year old is with me. I've added a message to remind me "Baby Anna". I also always leave my pocket book next to the car seat.
Very smart system!!!! I also want everyone reading this to know I read about a case today of a dad who forgot to do his normal protocol of leaving the diaper bag in the passenger seat and unfortunately this happened to him, even though he was aware of the phenomenon and attempted to have a system for it. This is why we should be seeking justice for children and not against the parent. It doesn't help to make someone already doomed to a life of regret suffer even more.
I grew up with Nicole and her family. She was friends with my little sister. Zdoggmd thank you SO much for making this video. Thank you for your logical explanation and for your compassion. Thank you for helping everyone understand why this could happen. I know she was devastated beyond comprehension and still suffers everyday.
Thank you for not blaming this mother! Thank you for explaining how these things happen to even the most educated people! We are all humans! I hate when people try to say that a parent doesn’t love their child because of an accident! I will always put the diaper bag in the backseat even though I’m a stay at home mom because this is one of my worst fears! My prayers go out to the family 🙏🏻
I think it's also important that we are a village. I'm not saying that they are in any way responsible, but the day care should have called when she was absent. I personally look in seats as I walk into stores if I see them while I'm walking in.
My heart breaks for this sweet family. I am deeply saddened that people in our community actually tore down the ribbons. How very heartless. We should all feel utmost compassion for this family, especially Nicole.
Just bawling my eyes out. This is so sad. Maybe there should be a sensor in car seats if it's too much cost for the auto industry to implement something.
I am usually quick to curse and blame but as you told this story I had chills and just kept thinking this could so have happened to me. I’ve performed many tasks on autopilot! I feel nothing but empathy and sorrow for this poor woman. I hope that she is able to forgive herself someday!
What kind of society have we become that we are so busy and tired we forget our children come first?!? That we need to remind ourselves we have children?
This exact thing DID happen to a very dear friend of mine, right down to taking her child to daycare when her husband usually did so. It changed my life forever. She and her husband are wonderful. loving parents and have suffered unimaginable pain because of the loss of their precious daughter. Watching the power of God in their lives helping them heal, honor their daughter, grow closer as a couple and be awesome parents to their other children has been a beautiful process to see. They were, lucky, for lack of a better word to have many loving people around to support and care for them. Our church family, her friends and co workers all knew, much like Nicole, that this was not something that was done with any malice and was not something she just "forgot", she truly thought she had taken her daughter to daycare. Science has done an amazing job of helping to explain how our brains do certain things and I am glad for that as it can help others try to understand but, our hearts are what we need to use the most for loving on the parents who lose children in this way. They need our prays, love, understanding, compassion and sometimes good old fashioned silent hugs just so they know, although it will never be "ok" again, God has their child now and they have permission to continue living life and find joy again.
I Luv my daughter As Much as Anyone But I too understand how this can happen. As a Single Working Mom in a Medical School Program I forget some basic base stuff all the time. I am overworked running trying to b the Best I can. IMO I blame society Our World Demands More & More & More of Working Parents. Maybe our world Needs to allow Working parents to slow down give them a chance to luv and bond. Great points Doc!!
Such a tragedy my heart goes out to both parents their lives will be forever changed. The auto industries need to develop an alarm This can happen to any one. My condolences.
It could happen to any of us. One change in routine that has a horrific, tragic ending. As a night shifter, I'm on autopilot all the time. I count myself lucky that I wasn't a night shifter when my kids were little. She will never forgive herself and will forever punish herself. Arresting her is not the right decision.
My heart is just ripped apart hearing about this. I remember years ago in a similar situation where Mom put the baby in dads car trying to help him out and the dad forgot to stop at daycare. He was so beside himself .When officers arrived he physically tried to take the officers gun to commit suicide.I would like to ask anyone on here to test their auto pilot..Test yourself on a regular day. Can you remember the exact color of the traffic light of each one you passed on your way to work , test yourself on your lunch break. Or if you work nights try coming home in the morning take your shower, grab a bit to eat then lay in bed and ask yourself about those traffic lights again. I gave myself these tests and I failed them..Yes I was driving in auto pilot and never even knew it. I think we all do things in auto pilot but some people are not aware of it.
I agree a sensor in the car and an alarm that can be added to older cars this is simple and a great idea zdogg! We have so much technology such as cameras and door alarm apps for our phones. Awareness is another avenue. Thanks for the report. Will share
Such a terrible, heart-wrenching tragedy. I am always so shocked when these poor, tormented parents are prosecuted, and when other people call for their heads. No one would intentionally kill their child - at least no one who would come back to the car and find the baby dead and go into the kind of hysterics a truly devastated parent experiences. These are accidents - horrific ones, to be sure - but accidents nonetheless. My heart goes out to not only the parents and their families and friends, but also to all of the emergency and medical personnel involved in these tragic cases. Our world has gone nuts that people feel such need to actually prosecute these parents. These witch hunts have got to end. Few things could be more cruel or inhumane. And I have felt this way for a long time; your explanation of the "Swiss cheese" model and how it could happen to anyone not only helps me understand better *why and how* it can happen, but also strengthens my feelings that parents caught in this living hell should receive nothing but the deepest compassion and support. It *can* happen to anyone. I don't have children - at least not human ones - but I do have a dog who is my life and who goes most places with me. I thank God I have not actually ever forgotten him in the car when I've gotten out, but I have certainly found myself forgetting he is there while driving because he is always so quiet, and I have come close a few times. And I'm a paramedic - retired and disabled, but there are no former paramedics. Your training and dedication to saving lives and alleviating suffering never leaves you, nor does the ability to multitask under high stress situations. If I can nearly forget a loved one is in the car with me, so can anyone. Thank you to the commenters who have mentioned various alarm systems - including that Waze now has one built in. I haven't used Waze in a long time for various reasons, but I have just set that up to remind me always to check if Sprite is in the car with me when I arrive at a destination, and plan to utilize it everywhere I go the way that a couple of commenters have mentioned that they now do.
Whenever a story like this hits i always share a memory i have of my own family when i was a child about 10 years old. I'm the oldest of 3 kids, when i was 10 my sis was 6, my little brother was barely 2. My mom worked FT and was a busy mom of 3. One day after school my mom picked my sister and I up from our grandparents where we typically went after school, our brother went to a local daycare in town. My sis and I got into my moms car and we started to drive home. We had a 12 mile commute from our town to our house. We get 1/2 way home and myself, my little sis, and my mom all stop and look at one another and say "Omg.. we forgot my little brother!!" my mom slams on the breaks does a U-turn and speeds back to get him where he was the only kid left at daycare and the care giver was getting worried.Now i tell this story to remind people, we are human, we get busy, we go on autopilot as kids and adults. 3 people completely spaced and forgot a 2 year old. How does that happen? idk.. but it did. So whenever i see a kid in a car story i feel awful, but i try to be empathetic, it could happen to anyone. I hope this mom can deal with her grief.
I know a very bright navy man, a type-A specialist instructor was was frequently deployed, an officer who was married for 4 years with 2 kids, one an infant. He left their newborn baby in its carrier twice on 2 separate weekends at church. I was the door greeter and knew of the new baby. He was delayed by phone calls in the car, clearly seen. Mom had taken the 3 yr old into the church both times, and dad was supposed to bring the newborn... when he came up to the door, I looked at him and said in a fairly loud voice... "Did you forget something"? Perplexed look... More firmly... "Did you forget something in your car"? He then realized he had left the baby in the car and he almost lost it. And this was the second time... The look on his face was terrifying as he realized what he had done... blood drained from his face, his eyes widened, gasped as he lost his breath. He couldn't believe he had done it the first time; the second time was a scare and I hope he came up with a way to never let it happen again. His wife would probably have killed him if some harm had come to that child. Scary, Scary, scary how easily a common, daily distraction in a persons life could override parental instincts, but it does.
Oh my God... So, so sad! I feel so much for that family. Mistakes can be made so easily. I agree that this could happen to anyone juggling many responsibilities.
After a couple days of looking into this phenomenon and feeling completely sad, I found your video. Thank you SO MUCH for speaking out on this. My child is alive and well at nine years, but knowing myself as a fallible human being this could have happened to her. It's really sad that these cases are still prosecuted. I plan on being really loud about this subject, and getting really smart baby shower gifts for my friends and family. No parent should ever have to live with the knowledge that they are responsible for their child's death (or worse be punished) when it was an honest mistake that could have been prevented with some knowledge.
Mindfulness training should be mandatory for everyone. Mindfulness, contemplation, meditation, Zen, silent prayer, anything that interrupts the thoughtstream. We live in our heads, we are always lost in thoughts of the future or the past, we are not in the present moment. The problem is we don't learn how to pay attention. We miss so much of our life not really fully present. Mindfulness practices can be incorporated throughout the day, like use every stop light to remind you to check into the present moment, just to simply notice your breath, eyes open. When you wash your hands pay attention to the feeling and sound of the water, just a few minutes like that scattered throughout the day. You will see where your thoughts had been, you will see patterns of thought, programs that repeat, then you will also start experiencing the present moment more. Or maybe you sing to the child in the car on the way while driving. The problem is we don't learn how to use our mind and our attention just goes with every thought that pops in our head. We all have some ADD. Mindfulness should be taught in schools, and to new parents. As we progress in life we spend more and more time distracted by thoughts. We are missing our lives, we are missing reality by allowing our attention to ride the train of thoughts. Mindfulness is not hard to do, and it changes your life. You learn to really listen to others and instead of the thoughts that come up that you want to say next. The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master. We are not taught how to use it. I lost so many years of my life when I wasn't really present with my children, although physically present I was so often distracted, caught up with the thoughts in my head. We get so caught up in responsibilities and stress and thought takes on life of its own. We are not our thoughts. When you learn that you begin to live in the present moment again. So sad. But all the gadgets are not the solution. Being in the present moment is the solution.
I have driven on auto pilot many times and realized I did not remember getting to a place! I am outraged a child died in a senseless manor and at the same time I feel horrible for this mother!
Wow! this incident is horrible and I agree with your statement 100%. I am a nurse and a mother and grandmother and it so true that we go in auto pilot because it had happen to me. I hope the best for this mom and that justice see what we see and does not punish her more that her conscious is already doing, I can not even imagine what she must be going through. Justice for Nicole and Remi it was truly an unintentional situation that really can happen to any of us.
I agree completely with you, Z. Well, except one point: people who say they've never been on autopilot aren't necessarily lying; rather, they may just not be very self aware. The end result is the same (the risk of leaving your child in the car) but I digress.... Some sort of solution to this needs to come about. Wouldn't it be great if Siri or whatever had an app so that when you get in your car you are asked if your child is with you so when you put the car in park Siri reminds you to get your kid?
I can not begin to understand what this family and mother must be feeling. Judgement is a tricky thing and it is very easy to fall into this trap. I once forgot my bike (the only transport vehicle I had at the time) at a train station for 5 days before I realised. It was a stressful time and once I realised it, it literally felt like my reality was warped. It was like my mind used the bike to get home, created a whole set of circumstances for me not to use it or think about it and only when I went looking for my bike did that reality brake and the true circumstances revealed themselves. Thanks for the post and chat, it really challenges me and I hope it can open up dialogue in that community as well.
Well, as usual, people who call for her head are missing key knowledge that would help them understand more why calling for her head is just a simplistic and limited way of thinking and feeling. It happens a lot, the difference is most of us are lucky and don't get a perfect storm.That does not make us better, or more moral than someone who was SO unlucky that their life is changed forever and have their own judgement and guilt weighing on them already. There is almost nothing you can blame this parent of that she has not already told herself. Pilling on hate and blame helps no one.
3fishes inatank true because we will never know her suffering. I imagine it would be like a bottomless black chasm she fights each day to keep from swallowing her whole.
I think it's harder to feel the pain of both parent and child, so we prioritize. Some feel that the child's suffering deserves justice. Some feel that the parent's suffering will last the rest of their life so they need support. Few know someone who went through something similar and empathize. Even fewer see all sides of a situation and can have compassion for both.
More laws won't fix this. The only answer is to train ourselves. I have a dangerous job and over the years I have consciously implimented what I've termed "safety habits". That way the behavior required to avoid the danger becomes integrally programmed into my autopilot. I can attest that my "safety habits" have saved me many times! Folks in this comment section have some great ideas for "safety habits" regarding this issue. My heart goes out to this poor mother, and this poor child. I pray the pain they have and are experiencing may be eased, somehow. Thanks for the vid doc. I'm sure it wasn't easy to make.
This could of happened to anyone - I don’t think I could live after this. There is nothing you love more than your child. This is a heartbreaking story.
You won't believe how many cases have been in Italy of parents forgetting their children in the back seat. I hear one of those news at least once a year. It's heartbreaking for me, cannot imagine for the parents plus the hate they get from people so certain it will never happen to them.
I was referred to this video and I can so put myself in this situation. I don't drive but I can get so distracted. I have for years said we needed something that perhaps hooks up to our phones, since most people can't do much without their phones and upon realizing you don't have your phone you go crazy looking for it. And I've said what he said also about leaving something you need back there. Even your phone or coat ect. It's so sad to think of this because I was one who would say how? How do you not look but yes when you think of the child seat turned around and yes many babies fall asleep on the ride. I pray something will be done soon.
I'd like to add another aspect to this tragedy... I have been against this turn to 12 hr shifts for nurses from the beginning of that policy. As a society this needs to change for nurses and other hospital workers. It has even spread to other industries- as we see job opportunities diminish as those who are working have had to assume more and more responsibility with less time to rest and recover. All this leads to more and more stress which is a major cause of these situations. Have we forgotten why there's an 8 hr work day and those who sacrificed to make it so? What about Europe and Scandinavia with their liberal employment policies? Americans who do work an 8 hr day feel they need to supplement their income with another job. (At least it's a choice as to whether there's a rest period between jobs). This is our society's issue and every day we can see how it takes a toll.
I don't see how someone could forget their child, but that's just me. I don't think putting her in prison is the answer. She's suffered enough finding her daughter and realizing her fatal mistake.
These cases are heartbreaking. But they must be fully investigated and the parent held responsible to whatever appropriate degree. I remember the man a few years ago who intentionally left his toddler son in his car and killed him because he was having an affair and "didn't want to be a father anymore". Cannot just baseline look away from these cases. Putting ribbons up for the mother was ill-advised and I'm sure just served to stir up outrage. There are mirrors which can be bought inexpensively so that the driver can see the rear-facing child. I can't imagine driving all the time without being able to see your kid.
There is no punishment that could be given that will be anywhere near as painful as the punishment she already has of losing her child. When I was in Florida I got a rental car with a warning on it to check rear seat, which I thought was amazing. Although I tend to put my bag in the back so i can’t go anywhere without going into the back of the car and seeing my little man. So sorry for this family losing their little angel
This made me hurt so much! Then when he started crying 😢 omg good the hurt physically manifested in my chest. As real pain... this poor woman definitely didn’t do this on purpose I have read all I could on it! It’s awful! But still an accident!!
Anger is always a first response. However people need to put themselves in both places. Be supportive don’t beat the shit out of someone Things can happen. I always had people to drive me because I have visual impairment so I could focus on the child totally
You are situated quite well to start a grass roots legislative requirement. Have all daycare facilities, public and private, call the parent when the child is anticipated and not delivered. This might save a life, a timely reminder call.
The problem with that is that a lot of people don't check or answer their phones, or are in a meeting. In some cases, the parent even forgot their phone. This is pretty common. From what I've been reading, the best practices are to leave things you cannot go into work or a store without in the backseat with the child. That, or have an alarm system in place to alert and remind you.
Theres nothing worse than losing your child. Losing her baby by her own mistake is a fate worse than anything anyone could ever wish on her. I feel for her. I also feel the rage that doesnt let me understand how a mom can forget her baby. Mostly I feel for her though.
I think it's totally possible to forget your child, especially when routines are changed up. I think the only reason I didn't was because I was so paranoid, I was always thinking "don't forget the baby" any time I got in a car.
I try to be paranoid too and paranoid about checking that my keys are in my hand before locking the door because car lockouts are expensive now that we arent covered for them anymore
I cared for my elderly mother in my own home for the final five years of her life. The stress was unbelievable. I lost count of the times I was operating on auto-pilot and poured my laundry detergent i to the softener dispenser without realizing what I was doing. I think, there but for fortune. The loss of a child is punishment enough.
@ZDoggMD I may have judged this mom 11 yrs ago, UNTIL- I had a 3 week old & a 2 yo w/ what I discovered 2 days later was anemia from internal bleeding (C-Sec.) Hubby was home offering the rare opportunity to shop alone- 2 yo stayed w/ daddy,- Idk why I took baby? THANK GOD 3-4 MIN INTO SHOPPING, SOMEONE ELSES BABY CRIED & IT HIT ME- I LEFT MY PURSE IN THE CART-RAN OUT TO MY CAR & THERE SHE WAS STILL SILENTLY SLEEPING, I grabbed her, checked her vitals, woke her & she wa fine, I was NOT. I called my husband to come get us & retrieve my purse from inside- I’ll NEVER be the same. I have nothing but compassion AND empathy for this mom, and ALL PARENTS who lose a child to the fatal side effect of powering through exhaustion AND ROUTINE. Which btw, are both socially regarded as symptoms of being a GOOD PARENT. This happened a decade ago, it still gives me nightmares & makes me feel a great deal of shame.
Omg I am currently walking my 4 month old on a very hot day but my body is ice cold, I have goosebumps and shivers running down my spine. Immediate tears started right away. I am so paranoid about this that I check my backseat even when I know the kids aren't there. I have a 3 year old and a 4 month old and my brain is mush at the moment. This could happen to anyone. This woman will be in hell for the rest of her life... an awful tragedy :'-(
That is so sad. Worst nightmare stuff. I feel really lucky I had a noisy baby now. I used to count down the miles till drop offs because I really really looked forward to the after drop off quietness of the rest of my commute. These story make my blood freeze and heart hurt. If it had happened to me I’d be completely done with life. There’s no recovery. This can not be resolved with jail.
1000% agree. The other day I dropped my daughter off at dance. Came back home and I said to my husband “where’s Bella??” And he’s like 😕 u dropped her off at dance. I’m pregnant with number 4 and my brain is so scrabbled from a hectic life. I completely feel for a lot of these parents 🙏🏼 If there has never been signs of abuse or neglect before -should there be a harsh punishment?? 😩💔
There by the Grace Of God Goes I. Drowning is equally tragic and upsetting. It may be neurotic, but as mothers, as Grandmother's, father's and Grandfather's we must put our off spring first and foremost, where is the baby? Who has the baby? Vehicles, Pools, Lakes, are extraordinarily dangerous.. It's an accident that Nicole will never recover, her marriage may not recover. I believe these tragedy's increased when we were forced to put the kids in the back seat. When I had my children the babies were next to the driver, older kids in the back. When my Mom had me and my siblings, we didn't have car seats at all and we were all over that vehicle often laying in the back window. I am equally distraught as you told the story of the child who was trapped in a car seat in the extreme heat. Are these 5 point restraints so important that are children until the weight 80 pounds trapped? Lots of questions, and a great discussion and certainly Pediatricians and all Providers must discuss this with their patients. Each case must be reviewed, each death investigated, and if drugs or ETOH was involved then Yes, Prison may be the answer. In cases where is was the wiring, then court ordered probation, counseling, volunteerism and fines paid to promote awareness and technical answers and close monitoring of the adults. Judges have a very big part in this equation.
I worked through nursing school as a paramedic and drove for uber part time. I was so tired I probably shouldn't have been on the road sometimes. I have passed by daycare before, but I could never see myself leaving my child in the backseat.
Stacie Mercer I agree. From what I see you and I are few and far between! Not acceptable! If it was a caretaker or daycare worker would all these sympathetic people be showing sympathy?
Stacie Mercer The problem today is perhaps we are all on auto pilot. I'm not A personality failed nursing school and been as Critical Care tech and Telementry technician for several yrs. It's time we focus on our children first then our careers. But then again lm just Telementry tech/ glorified nursing assistant.
I feel for these families, but I'm curious.... How far back have hot car deaths been happening? I'm trying to understand what has changed. Is it cellphones? Rear facing carseats? Tinted windows? When this happens, are cellphone records checked? I know that nobody is perfect. I'm just trying to understand what is going on when you see the carseat in the rearview, but still forget that your kid is in there. Please help us understand so we can work towards fixing that.
Ideas: 1) Add a safety chain that ties the baby seat to the driver's wrist. 2) Provide a portable small baby figure on the dashboard. These 2 ideas should serve as reminders to check the baby in the back seat.
I disagree with the point you made about the difference between now and years ago. You suggest that some reasons why are rear facing seats and being in the back of the car. I disagree, as a kid I recall sitting in the back of a ute or panal van which is comparable to putting kids in tbe boot... we weren't forgotten about. I personally feel, and from the cases I've heard, when this happens, it seems to always be busy working parents. The difference between the past and now is societies expectations upon mothers... especially new mothers. A mother of young children should be able to direct her main focus on her child and not be spread so thin across so many expectations from society that the cost becomes a childs life.
You're a good man ZDogg. Go hug a Zpup. :-) As for actions to be taken I do wonder if putting the seats in the back, facing them backwards, saves more than 30 children/year. If not maybe just repealing that law, but leaving it as recommended parental practice on the car seats themselves, is the way to go. I understand why car makers don't want those sensors to be mandatory. Not necessarily for the extra cost/complexity. If the sensor/alarm fails for some reason and this happens is the auto-maker legally liable? Though if they have an extremely low failure rate and are easy to test I can totally see a car maker advertising it as an optional feature. But without reading the law if it's worded in such a way that it's an additional cost and legal liability of course they would oppose it. Remove the legal liability and now it's an advertised optional additional feature for parents.
Since this frequently involves taking kids to daycare, daycare centers should have a mandatory wellness check if an expected child does not come to daycare. Call the parents then the backup emergency number.
Robin Hensley excellent idea!
All the schools/daycares I have worked at have this policy in place. As a lead teacher I would call parents 8:30-9am. "Good morning, I noticed that ...is not in class this morning." If I could not call the front office will call. If we did not hear back we would try again at lunchtime. Even if a parent called in the morning to say a child would be out. I or the other teachers call during lunch or on the evening to see how the child is doing. Also, if a parent is running late, call one or both parents. Things can happen at pick ups as well. If a parent has other children, if they are being picked up by another parent, aunt, nanny, grandparent etc. We have had close calls when one parent thought another parent would pick up or they forgot what day of the week it was. Things happen. We also have to watch out for little ones and parents. I don't think she should have gone to prison. The guilt she is feeling not only that, the loss of a child, that is hell on earth. I cannot imagine what she and her husband are going though. As a new mom myself, that is one of my biggest fears..
I agree with you on several points, and not just as a health care provider. As a human. Anyone that says they've never operated on autopilot is lying. And the recommendation to place something in the back seat ROUTINELY, not just when the child is there, is a great self check. When I read stories like this my first instinct is rage. Then I think of the things I've seen in my job, my own thought processes, the times I have been in autopilot and I feel for all.
Patti Wilson I feel rage too. But then I remind myself I’ve been in zombie hell mode and it could have been me.
Yes absolutely. I got into the habit of putting my purse in the back when mine were babies. I worked 12 hour shifts, full time college and had 3 kids under 3. I got to school more than once, went to get my purse out of the back and "hi baby!"
I keep the diaper bag in the backseat to help to always check back there to make sure I don’t leave them! It’s a big fear and I remember watching a special on Oprah when I was 8 on this topic so it’s stuck with me all these years!
the people who say it will never happen to them must be neruotypical or on top of things always because I just can't relate to never being caught on autopilot etc.
Exactly Patti.
I never felt for a second that anyone good could let their child stay in the back seat of a car alone in the sun. I thought absolutely the worst of these people.
Until I once told one of my closest friends "Hey, you can just give me your purse, I'll hold it up here instead of reaching behind you." She said it was her way of establishing a routine so that she would never forget her child in the back seat, because sometimes, when they just feel like being quiet, or go to sleep, it can be very easy to forget they're there. It chilled me to the bone, because I am super close to her and her family, and I KNOW she's an amazing, top of the line mother. She loves her children dearly. She'd never for a second leave them alone in a car by choice. And she admitted she could forget.
Ever since then, I have reevaluated my positions on these people. Yes, there are people who even admit to being gone "just for a minute," and they "thought it'd be fine." Those people are jerks and shouldn't have house plants let alone children. But when you realize that it's so easy for anyone to forget, it's so easy to understand the panic that sets in when you realize what happened.
I wish this mother and family absolutely nothing but the best in this impossibly hard time in their lives, and I know that nothing will ever be the same for them, no matter the outcome of the criminal proceedings. I cannot fathom what she's feeling right now, and worse, it's all because she was trying to do a good thing. What an awful situation.
I'm really glad that you've changed your perspective. I did the same last year. I don't think I usually look for people to 'pay' for accidents, but there's something so horrific about children dying from hyperthermia that it is almost human nature to seek justice for that child. All too often, unfortunately, that comes down on the people who will already suffer for the rest of their lives for their mistake. If you really want justice for these poor kids, it's best to tell every parent you know about what you know about hot car deaths, and urge them to keep important items in the backseat with their child (such as a shoe they are wearing, their purse, briefcase, phone, wallet, or-- better yet-- buy alarms that people have designed just for this reason). Me personally-- every baby shower I go to-- I am buying one of those alarms. People are often gifted baby monitors, so why not car alert systems? You might worry about being a Debbie Downer, but the more people we can save from these tragedies the better.
It scares me that there are people out there who seriously believe this could never happen to them. That means they probably don't take precautions to prevent it.
I've been researching this for two days, and the amount of people out there who think they could never do that and someone who does is a 'monster' is astounding. I've left comments for them letting them know that they are more at risk if they don't devise and execute a system to prevent such a tragic mistake.
You can believe I'm going to share this. I was once that mother that was angry and calling for the heads of those who left their child in the car. Then it ALMOST happened to me. The thing that saved it from not happening to totality? He was 4 at the time and he spoke up as we got closer to my work and further from his sitter's house. Things were not as they were supposed to be that morning because there had been a medical emergency the night before with another family member. I was not supposed to be going to his sitter's that morning, I was on autopilot. My heart dropped so fast and it was that moment that I understood how it has happened to others. That moment is what has changed my way of thinking about everything. I will be sharing this video because I am honestly so tired of all the mothers I know who still think the way that I used to.
One of the most powerful messages you have EVER made ZDogg. Thank you- my deepest sympathy to the subject family in this video. May peace come back to all of them.
I am a nurse and mom to four. My whole life is schedules and routine. I can see this happening to anyone.
I've seen stores put up child check signs when you first walk in, I like them.
Great idea
I initially am the one person who felt outrage but, on reflection, was because I could not understand why or how this happens. Thank you for doing what you do ZDogg because you allowed one more nurse to have a bit more empathy today
I work in the medical field. My first child was born before we had to place them in the back facing the rear. Never had a problem. My second child was three months old I had just recently returned to work and yes he had fallen asleep and I passed the babysitters house and didn’t notice till I got to work(thank God)and had to turn around and go all the way back. It happens. I agree anyone could have made this mistake. I support Nicole. It happens and child seats need an alarm.
@Warm Soft Kitty Wow. Do you just spit diarrhea out of your mouth or does the fecal matter originate in your rotted brain? Reading comprehension. She did NOT purposefully leave her kid in the backseat. First of all, a child that age is REQUIRED to go in the backseat, rear-facing, for safety. Secondly, she drove past the babysitter and noticed WHEN she arrived at work. If a kid is asleep, silent, and the car seat is usually in the car, it's no more noticeable than leaving a jacket in the backseat on a warm day. So much more tragic on an unimaginable scale, yes. But it doesn't create any more attention at the moment than any other random object if a person is tired or distracted. And we all know that parents are NEVER tired or distracted. 🙄 There are monsters that do this on purpose. Then there are parents who have a moment of distraction. If you can't tell the difference or offer any productive suggestions, then you ARE NOT HUMAN, YOU SANCTIMONIOUS POS!!!
as a computer science major, this is something we look at. GPS programs on phones like waze now allow reminders to be set when the car stops to check for passengers. The hope being to reduce this. There are more things to do but people need to step up to this problem and find new and effective reminders, to reduce this number.
I suspect that many of the people calling for this mother's head want to demonize her BECAUSE this could happen to anyone. If we picture Nicole as a neglectful, bad person, then Remy's death becomes a consequence of Nicole's bad behavior, and would never have happened if she were in the care of a "good" parent. We feel safer if there is a reason for tragedy.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm in graduate school for my SLP license, my husband is a full-time engineer, and we have a beautiful one year old girl. This could ABSOLUTELY happen to us.
This outcome was not her intentinally desire. It was a horrific, tragic event. As a pediatric nurse, I've seen child abuse and neglect, this event was not abuse. Poor child, poor mama. Everyone is suffering here. I have empathy for this mother's anguish.
You about killed me with this video doc. It is so much easier to not feel or empathize
This one really affected me a lot too. It shows how emotionally exhausting affective empathy (feeling another's pain as your own) can be.
I do it too Z and I've read alot of those stories too waaa :'(
Thank you so much for making this video. I know Nicole and Pete through my sister who worked with Nicole at one time. Nicole and Pete are wonderful people and love Remi with all their heart. Thank you for putting it in to perspective for everyone. I live in Roseburg and can say that we have had our fair share of tragedies. First we had the UCC shooting on October 1st, 2015 and then we had this tragedy with the Engler Family. Nicole has support from all over the world. Your video was shared to a Facebook group called Support For Nicole Engler and Family. That's where I found it. It brought me to tears, because it's such a powerful message. Thank you again!
Thank you for making a serious video about the topic. It's so easy for people to judge (I never! I wouldn't! Because I care about my children!), but if you're not living in the shoes of that person - good and bad - you really don't know that you wouldn't be exactly where they are now if it had been your spirit in control. Frankly, as morbid as it may be, if people really want her to suffer more than she already has, they should hope she lives a long life. Because losing a child, even when you're not at fault, is a hell enough on it's own and no matter how much good happens from this point, the mother will never forget the day or specific image of finding her lifeless child.
Zdog I have never felt you were more spot on then on this topic. It’s horrific and it could happen to anyone. I have 5 children total. I went through nursing school with little ones and now many years later a high pressure job with more little ones. I never, knock on wood, left my child in the car but I could have. I have driven on autopilot too many times to count, especially when I worked night shift. I feel damn lucky that it hasn’t happened to me and now I check my back seat every time I pull into work. It could
happen to anyone!
Maybe a monitor, that is left in the car, that triggers your phone. Something like, a ring alert, or a vibration on a Fitbit. "It's 98 degrees in your car. Is there anyone or anything in your car that could be affected!" Text sent or just a quick "Hot Car Alert!"
May not be a great idea, just one I had.
We have cars that park themselves, drive themselves, GPS, backup cameras ..I agree with you Karoleigh..I use to feel such outrage but this just made it about being human.. I have always wondered how this could happen and today I actually understand. Tears of empathy, tears of compassion...I believe that one day she will be united with her little one..
That is a very good idea and would be incredibly easy to implement.
Some car manufacturers are starting to implement some safety features. Chevy for instance will vibrate your seat, ding, and flash a message if the backseat is sensed to be used.
I love that, good on you Chevy.
There's phone apps too. Also our stores here (Walmart was first) have put large signs in the door basically asking "have you checked the back seat?"
The attitude of compassion you’re trying to impart reminds me of a faith component called *grace. We can let others off the hook because we’re not perfect either. God bless your humility and transparency in this, Dr D. We need more practitioners like you.
This is such a powerful response to such a heart-wrenching tragedy. I absolutely agree that an added feature to cars that alerts you in some way would be fantastic. They have alarms to warn you to put your seatbelt on when you start the car, surely it's not that difficult to have the same alarm when seatbelts are still attached when it's been turned off?
I can't imagine the pain that this mother is feeling. At this point, putting her in prison would do nothing but give her time to fester in her trauma. She needs support and a loving community around her.
That poor woman. I agree with your autopilot statement. She was probably following her everyday routine. Just think she's in the car thinking of all the notes she has to do, the patients she to see, what she's going to cool for dinner. She pulls into the parking spot and went to work. It was a tragic mistake. I constantly drive on autopilot...
Something that work if the idea can be spread is to place some object in the car seat, a stuffed animal or large ball. When the child is placed in the seat the object gets placed on the dash or in the front passenger seat or hanging from the mirror as a visual reminder. When the child is removed from the seat the object is placed back in the seat. Can't place the child there without removing the object and it's a visual reminder to the parent.
Rob Neto great idea not a mother yet but going to use this 💜
Good idea Rob! More laws won't fix this. The only answer is to train ourselves. I have a dangerous job, and I have conciously put what I've termed as "safety habits" like this in place, I can attest that they've saved me many times.
We should all share with young parents. Nicole deserves only kindness and compassion. My heart totally breaks for her and her husband. What about a pad with a light sensor visible above the car seat that is set off when weight is put on a sensor. This could be simple and inexpensive to create. Like those sensors in talking greeting cards. Thank you for this and the useful ideas.
Everyone needs to see this, and this applies all over the place in life. We can all do the unthinkable.
This is horrific, scary and very plausible does any of us. As a healthcare professional I think we've all been on autopilot especially while driving going to school Etc. We need to support her and others that this is happened to. May God be with you in your time of need.
As a mom, grandma, and NP I can empathize with this mom, while I can’t stand the thought that I could ever forget and leave my adorable granddaughter in the car, I know that in just the right circumstances it potentially could happen. I think the conversation should include safety features in cars and in our processes with routines but should also include recognizing that we can’t do it all and if we try there are going to be mistakes made, things forgotten. I think we need to have better work/life balance, not keep trying to work too many hours and be super parent etc. When my kids were growing up we made the decision to essentially live on one income- we lived very modestly in order for me be home with our kids. We were disciplined with our finances, didn’t buy a house that we couldn’t pay for, didn’t have new cars, didn’t go on many vacations... but, It was worth it. Also there is soo much pressure placed on medical professionals (I am sure in other fields but I can only speak for the field I am in) to see more patients, do more, more, more, more that it’s increasingly difficult to leave it all at work. I find myself often thinking of what I need to do long before my work day starts. My heart breaks for these parents and pray that they find peace somehow. Thank you zdogg - this is by far the most impactful video of yours I have watched.
We must be introspective as humans and realize that under the right circumstances we are all capable of doing anything, the amazing and the tragic
A tragedy that could happen to anyone. My heart goes out to that mom and father. That’s why back seat remind should exists to remind people that the child is in the back seat sleeping!
I'm torn on this one because I'm an ER physician, a mother and a forgetful human in my daily life. The mother in me feels like I should be outraged but the human in me knows that it could happen to anyone.
Why should a mother be judged harder than a father? I don't agree with that because women are already under so much pressure, please don't stigmatize us any further. I can't even imagine finding my daughter like that, I know she would scream for me, hurt herself trying to escape out of her seat. I know I would die inside the very moment I would see my dead child. I hope she gets help, there's no greater sentence than to go on living knowing you caused your child's death.
Because this has always been one of my greatest fear, I've developed my own system: I always use Waze no matter where I go, whether or not my 1 year old is with me. I've added a message to remind me "Baby Anna". I also always leave my pocket book next to the car seat.
Very smart system!!!! I also want everyone reading this to know I read about a case today of a dad who forgot to do his normal protocol of leaving the diaper bag in the passenger seat and unfortunately this happened to him, even though he was aware of the phenomenon and attempted to have a system for it. This is why we should be seeking justice for children and not against the parent. It doesn't help to make someone already doomed to a life of regret suffer even more.
I grew up with Nicole and her family. She was friends with my little sister. Zdoggmd thank you SO much for making this video. Thank you for your logical explanation and for your compassion. Thank you for helping everyone understand why this could happen. I know she was devastated beyond comprehension and still suffers everyday.
Thank you for not blaming this mother! Thank you for explaining how these things happen to even the most educated people!
We are all humans! I hate when people try to say that a parent doesn’t love their child because of an accident! I will always put the diaper bag in the backseat even though I’m a stay at home mom because this is one of my worst fears! My prayers go out to the family 🙏🏻
I think it's also important that we are a village. I'm not saying that they are in any way responsible, but the day care should have called when she was absent. I personally look in seats as I walk into stores if I see them while I'm walking in.
My heart breaks for this sweet family. I am deeply saddened that people in our community actually tore down the ribbons. How very heartless. We should all feel utmost compassion for this family, especially Nicole.
Just bawling my eyes out. This is so sad. Maybe there should be a sensor in car seats if it's too much cost for the auto industry to implement something.
Wow, so powerful. Thank you. I was moved to tears. You will change a lot of hearts. Bless you ZDogg MD. ❤
Thank you for showing us a pure example of grace and understanding!!
I am usually quick to curse and blame but as you told this story I had chills and just kept thinking this could so have happened to me. I’ve performed many tasks on autopilot! I feel nothing but empathy and sorrow for this poor woman. I hope that she is able to forgive herself someday!
What kind of society have we become that we are so busy and tired we forget our children come first?!? That we need to remind ourselves we have children?
This exact thing DID happen to a very dear friend of mine, right down to taking her child to daycare when her husband usually did so. It changed my life forever. She and her husband are wonderful. loving parents and have suffered unimaginable pain because of the loss of their precious daughter. Watching the power of God in their lives helping them heal, honor their daughter, grow closer as a couple and be awesome parents to their other children has been a beautiful process to see. They were, lucky, for lack of a better word to have many loving people around to support and care for them. Our church family, her friends and co workers all knew, much like Nicole, that this was not something that was done with any malice and was not something she just "forgot", she truly thought she had taken her daughter to daycare. Science has done an amazing job of helping to explain how our brains do certain things and I am glad for that as it can help others try to understand but, our hearts are what we need to use the most for loving on the parents who lose children in this way. They need our prays, love, understanding, compassion and sometimes good old fashioned silent hugs just so they know, although it will never be "ok" again, God has their child now and they have permission to continue living life and find joy again.
I Luv my daughter As Much as Anyone But I too understand how this can happen. As a Single Working Mom in a Medical School Program I forget some basic base stuff all the time. I am overworked running trying to b the Best I can. IMO I blame society Our World Demands More & More & More of Working Parents. Maybe our world Needs to allow Working parents to slow down give them a chance to luv and bond. Great points Doc!!
Take care please
Such a tragedy my heart goes out to both parents their lives will be forever changed. The auto industries need to develop an alarm This can happen to any one. My condolences.
It could happen to any of us. One change in routine that has a horrific, tragic ending. As a night shifter, I'm on autopilot all the time. I count myself lucky that I wasn't a night shifter when my kids were little.
She will never forgive herself and will forever punish herself. Arresting her is not the right decision.
My heart is just ripped apart hearing about this. I remember years ago in a similar situation where Mom put the baby in dads car trying to help him out and the dad forgot to stop at daycare. He was so beside himself .When officers arrived he physically tried to take the officers gun to commit suicide.I would like to ask anyone on here to test their auto pilot..Test yourself on a regular day. Can you remember the exact color of the traffic light of each one you passed on your way to work , test yourself on your lunch break. Or if you work nights try coming home in the morning take your shower, grab a bit to eat then lay in bed and ask yourself about those traffic lights again. I gave myself these tests and I failed them..Yes I was driving in auto pilot and never even knew it. I think we all do things in auto pilot but some people are not aware of it.
Sad that it happened. She will be affected for the rest of her life. I hope she gets therapy.
I agree a sensor in the car and an alarm that can be added to older cars this is simple and a great idea zdogg! We have so much technology such as cameras and door alarm apps for our phones. Awareness is another avenue. Thanks for the report. Will share
Such a terrible, heart-wrenching tragedy.
I am always so shocked when these poor, tormented parents are prosecuted, and when other people call for their heads. No one would intentionally kill their child - at least no one who would come back to the car and find the baby dead and go into the kind of hysterics a truly devastated parent experiences.
These are accidents - horrific ones, to be sure - but accidents nonetheless. My heart goes out to not only the parents and their families and friends, but also to all of the emergency and medical personnel involved in these tragic cases.
Our world has gone nuts that people feel such need to actually prosecute these parents. These witch hunts have got to end. Few things could be more cruel or inhumane.
And I have felt this way for a long time; your explanation of the "Swiss cheese" model and how it could happen to anyone not only helps me understand better *why and how* it can happen, but also strengthens my feelings that parents caught in this living hell should receive nothing but the deepest compassion and support.
It *can* happen to anyone. I don't have children - at least not human ones - but I do have a dog who is my life and who goes most places with me. I thank God I have not actually ever forgotten him in the car when I've gotten out, but I have certainly found myself forgetting he is there while driving because he is always so quiet, and I have come close a few times. And I'm a paramedic - retired and disabled, but there are no former paramedics. Your training and dedication to saving lives and alleviating suffering never leaves you, nor does the ability to multitask under high stress situations. If I can nearly forget a loved one is in the car with me, so can anyone.
Thank you to the commenters who have mentioned various alarm systems - including that Waze now has one built in. I haven't used Waze in a long time for various reasons, but I have just set that up to remind me always to check if Sprite is in the car with me when I arrive at a destination, and plan to utilize it everywhere I go the way that a couple of commenters have mentioned that they now do.
Whenever a story like this hits i always share a memory i have of my own family when i was a child about 10 years old. I'm the oldest of 3 kids, when i was 10 my sis was 6, my little brother was barely 2. My mom worked FT and was a busy mom of 3. One day after school my mom picked my sister and I up from our grandparents where we typically went after school, our brother went to a local daycare in town. My sis and I got into my moms car and we started to drive home. We had a 12 mile commute from our town to our house. We get 1/2 way home and myself, my little sis, and my mom all stop and look at one another and say "Omg.. we forgot my little brother!!" my mom slams on the breaks does a U-turn and speeds back to get him where he was the only kid left at daycare and the care giver was getting worried.Now i tell this story to remind people, we are human, we get busy, we go on autopilot as kids and adults. 3 people completely spaced and forgot a 2 year old. How does that happen? idk.. but it did. So whenever i see a kid in a car story i feel awful, but i try to be empathetic, it could happen to anyone. I hope this mom can deal with her grief.
I know a very bright navy man, a type-A specialist instructor was was frequently deployed, an officer who was married for 4 years with 2 kids, one an infant. He left their newborn baby in its carrier twice on 2 separate weekends at church. I was the door greeter and knew of the new baby. He was delayed by phone calls in the car, clearly seen. Mom had taken the 3 yr old into the church both times, and dad was supposed to bring the newborn... when he came up to the door, I looked at him and said in a fairly loud voice... "Did you forget something"?
Perplexed look... More firmly... "Did you forget something in your car"? He then realized he had left the baby in the car and he almost lost it. And this was the second time...
The look on his face was terrifying as he realized what he had done... blood drained from his face, his eyes widened, gasped as he lost his breath. He couldn't believe he had done it the first time; the second time was a scare and I hope he came up with a way to never let it happen again. His wife would probably have killed him if some harm had come to that child. Scary, Scary, scary how easily a common, daily distraction in a persons life could override parental instincts, but it does.
Oh my God... So, so sad! I feel so much for that family. Mistakes can be made so easily. I agree that this could happen to anyone juggling many responsibilities.
Wow Doc! This is so powerful! Thank you for your wisdom!
After a couple days of looking into this phenomenon and feeling completely sad, I found your video. Thank you SO MUCH for speaking out on this. My child is alive and well at nine years, but knowing myself as a fallible human being this could have happened to her. It's really sad that these cases are still prosecuted. I plan on being really loud about this subject, and getting really smart baby shower gifts for my friends and family. No parent should ever have to live with the knowledge that they are responsible for their child's death (or worse be punished) when it was an honest mistake that could have been prevented with some knowledge.
Mindfulness training should be mandatory for everyone. Mindfulness, contemplation, meditation, Zen, silent prayer, anything that interrupts the thoughtstream.
We live in our heads, we are always lost in thoughts of the future or the past, we are not in the present moment.
The problem is we don't learn how to pay attention. We miss so much of our life not really fully present.
Mindfulness practices can be incorporated throughout the day, like use every stop light to remind you to check into the present moment, just to simply notice your breath, eyes open. When you wash your hands pay attention to the feeling and sound of the water, just a few minutes like that scattered throughout the day. You will see where your thoughts had been, you will see patterns of thought, programs that repeat, then you will also start experiencing the present moment more.
Or maybe you sing to the child in the car on the way while driving.
The problem is we don't learn how to use our mind and our attention just goes with every thought that pops in our head. We all have some ADD.
Mindfulness should be taught in schools, and to new parents. As we progress in life we spend more and more time distracted by thoughts. We are missing our lives, we are missing reality by allowing our attention to ride the train of thoughts.
Mindfulness is not hard to do, and it changes your life.
You learn to really listen to others and instead of the thoughts that come up that you want to say next.
The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master. We are not taught how to use it. I lost so many years of my life when I wasn't really present with my children, although physically present I was so often distracted, caught up with the thoughts in my head. We get so caught up in responsibilities and stress and thought takes on life of its own.
We are not our thoughts. When you learn that you begin to live in the present moment again.
So sad. But all the gadgets are not the solution. Being in the present moment is the solution.
I have driven on auto pilot many times and realized I did not remember getting to a place! I am outraged a child died in a senseless manor and at the same time I feel horrible for this mother!
Wow! this incident is horrible and I agree with your statement 100%. I am a nurse and a mother and grandmother and it so true that we go in auto pilot because it had happen to me. I hope the best for this mom and that justice see what we see and does not punish her more that her conscious is already doing, I can not even imagine what she must be going through. Justice for Nicole and Remi it was truly an unintentional situation that really can happen to any of us.
I agree completely with you, Z. Well, except one point: people who say they've never been on autopilot aren't necessarily lying; rather, they may just not be very self aware. The end result is the same (the risk of leaving your child in the car) but I digress.... Some sort of solution to this needs to come about. Wouldn't it be great if Siri or whatever had an app so that when you get in your car you are asked if your child is with you so when you put the car in park Siri reminds you to get your kid?
As a mother of three I can see how this can happen ... I could only imagen this mothers pain and suffering ... :(
I can not begin to understand what this family and mother must be feeling. Judgement is a tricky thing and it is very easy to fall into this trap. I once forgot my bike (the only transport vehicle I had at the time) at a train station for 5 days before I realised. It was a stressful time and once I realised it, it literally felt like my reality was warped. It was like my mind used the bike to get home, created a whole set of circumstances for me not to use it or think about it and only when I went looking for my bike did that reality brake and the true circumstances revealed themselves. Thanks for the post and chat, it really challenges me and I hope it can open up dialogue in that community as well.
Well, as usual, people who call for her head are missing key knowledge that would help them understand more why calling for her head is just a simplistic and limited way of thinking and feeling. It happens a lot, the difference is most of us are lucky and don't get a perfect storm.That does not make us better, or more moral than someone who was SO unlucky that their life is changed forever and have their own judgement and guilt weighing on them already. There is almost nothing you can blame this parent of that she has not already told herself. Pilling on hate and blame helps no one.
You nailed it doc. Out of sight out of mind.
em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/Submit
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another... It's not just pain.
3fishes inatank true because we will never know her suffering. I imagine it would be like a bottomless black chasm she fights each day to keep from swallowing her whole.
This was an excellent video and it made me rethink my reaction to these cases, much thanks!
I think it's harder to feel the pain of both parent and child, so we prioritize. Some feel that the child's suffering deserves justice. Some feel that the parent's suffering will last the rest of their life so they need support. Few know someone who went through something similar and empathize. Even fewer see all sides of a situation and can have compassion for both.
More laws won't fix this. The only answer is to train ourselves. I have a dangerous job and over the years I have consciously implimented what I've termed "safety habits". That way the behavior required to avoid the danger becomes integrally programmed into my autopilot. I can attest that my "safety habits" have saved me many times! Folks in this comment section have some great ideas for "safety habits" regarding this issue. My heart goes out to this poor mother, and this poor child. I pray the pain they have and are experiencing may be eased, somehow. Thanks for the vid doc. I'm sure it wasn't easy to make.
This is my worst nightmare to lose a child especially in a situation like this. I feel terrible for these parents.
This could of happened to anyone - I don’t think I could live after this. There is nothing you love more than your child. This is a heartbreaking story.
So extremely sad. I feel so sad for everyone involved. This could have happened to anyone. Just heartbreaking.
Good god how tragic, that poor poor mother :(
You won't believe how many cases have been in Italy of parents forgetting their children in the back seat. I hear one of those news at least once a year. It's heartbreaking for me, cannot imagine for the parents plus the hate they get from people so certain it will never happen to them.
I was referred to this video and I can so put myself in this situation. I don't drive but I can get so distracted. I have for years said we needed something that perhaps hooks up to our phones, since most people can't do much without their phones and upon realizing you don't have your phone you go crazy looking for it. And I've said what he said also about leaving something you need back there. Even your phone or coat ect. It's so sad to think of this because I was one who would say how? How do you not look but yes when you think of the child seat turned around and yes many babies fall asleep on the ride. I pray something will be done soon.
I'd like to add another aspect to this tragedy... I have been against this turn to 12 hr shifts for nurses from the beginning of that policy. As a society this needs to change for nurses and other hospital workers. It has even spread to other industries- as we see job opportunities diminish as those who are working have had to assume more and more responsibility with less time to rest and recover. All this leads to more and more stress which is a major cause of these situations. Have we forgotten why there's an 8 hr work day and those who sacrificed to make it so? What about Europe and Scandinavia with their liberal employment policies? Americans who do work an 8 hr day feel they need to supplement their income with another job. (At least it's a choice as to whether there's a rest period between jobs). This is our society's issue and every day we can see how it takes a toll.
I don't see how someone could forget their child, but that's just me. I don't think putting her in prison is the answer. She's suffered enough finding her daughter and realizing her fatal mistake.
These cases are heartbreaking. But they must be fully investigated and the parent held responsible to whatever appropriate degree. I remember the man a few years ago who intentionally left his toddler son in his car and killed him because he was having an affair and "didn't want to be a father anymore". Cannot just baseline look away from these cases. Putting ribbons up for the mother was ill-advised and I'm sure just served to stir up outrage. There are mirrors which can be bought inexpensively so that the driver can see the rear-facing child. I can't imagine driving all the time without being able to see your kid.
There is no punishment that could be given that will be anywhere near as painful as the punishment she already has of losing her child. When I was in Florida I got a rental car with a warning on it to check rear seat, which I thought was amazing. Although I tend to put my bag in the back so i can’t go anywhere without going into the back of the car and seeing my little man. So sorry for this family losing their little angel
Even Waze has an alert message for not forgeting our child in the car.
Hope the mother finds peace at some point.
This made me hurt so much! Then when he started crying 😢 omg good the hurt physically manifested in my chest. As real pain... this poor woman definitely didn’t do this on purpose I have read all I could on it! It’s awful! But still an accident!!
Wow. So powerful
Anger is always a first response. However people need to put themselves in both places. Be supportive don’t beat the shit out of someone
Things can happen. I always had people to drive me because I have visual impairment so I could focus on the child totally
But what if this was a man instead of a woman ?? :/
Thank you for making this video.
Really important video
Thank you.
You are situated quite well to start a grass roots legislative requirement. Have all daycare facilities, public and private, call the parent when the child is anticipated and not delivered. This might save a life, a timely reminder call.
The problem with that is that a lot of people don't check or answer their phones, or are in a meeting. In some cases, the parent even forgot their phone. This is pretty common. From what I've been reading, the best practices are to leave things you cannot go into work or a store without in the backseat with the child. That, or have an alarm system in place to alert and remind you.
Theres nothing worse than losing your child. Losing her baby by her own mistake is a fate worse than anything anyone could ever wish on her. I feel for her. I also feel the rage that doesnt let me understand how a mom can forget her baby. Mostly I feel for her though.
I think it's totally possible to forget your child, especially when routines are changed up. I think the only reason I didn't was because I was so paranoid, I was always thinking "don't forget the baby" any time I got in a car.
I try to be paranoid too and paranoid about checking that my keys are in my hand before locking the door because car lockouts are expensive now that we arent covered for them anymore
I heard about that child who pulled all of her hair out. So unbelievably heart-breaking. She must’ve been in agony.
I cared for my elderly mother in my own home for the final five years of her life. The stress was unbelievable. I lost count of the times I was operating on auto-pilot and poured my laundry detergent i to the softener dispenser without realizing what I was doing. I think, there but for fortune. The loss of a child is punishment enough.
@ZDoggMD I may have judged this mom 11 yrs ago,
UNTIL- I had a 3 week old & a 2 yo w/ what I discovered 2 days later was anemia from internal bleeding (C-Sec.) Hubby was home offering the rare opportunity to shop alone- 2 yo stayed w/ daddy,- Idk why I took baby?
THANK GOD 3-4 MIN INTO SHOPPING, SOMEONE ELSES BABY CRIED & IT HIT ME- I LEFT MY PURSE IN THE CART-RAN OUT TO MY CAR & THERE SHE WAS STILL SILENTLY SLEEPING, I grabbed her, checked her vitals, woke her & she wa fine, I was NOT. I called my husband to come get us & retrieve my purse from inside- I’ll NEVER be the same.
I have nothing but compassion AND empathy for this mom, and ALL PARENTS who lose a child to the fatal side effect of powering through exhaustion AND ROUTINE. Which btw, are both socially regarded as symptoms of being a GOOD PARENT.
This happened a decade ago, it still gives me nightmares & makes me feel a great deal of shame.
Omg I am currently walking my 4 month old on a very hot day but my body is ice cold, I have goosebumps and shivers running down my spine. Immediate tears started right away. I am so paranoid about this that I check my backseat even when I know the kids aren't there. I have a 3 year old and a 4 month old and my brain is mush at the moment. This could happen to anyone. This woman will be in hell for the rest of her life... an awful tragedy :'-(
That is so sad. Worst nightmare stuff. I feel really lucky I had a noisy baby now. I used to count down the miles till drop offs because I really really looked forward to the after drop off quietness of the rest of my commute. These story make my blood freeze and heart hurt. If it had happened to me I’d be completely done with life. There’s no recovery. This can not be resolved with jail.
1000% agree. The other day I dropped my daughter off at dance. Came back home and I said to my husband “where’s Bella??” And he’s like 😕 u dropped her off at dance. I’m pregnant with number 4 and my brain is so scrabbled from a hectic life. I completely feel for a lot of these parents 🙏🏼 If there has never been signs of abuse or neglect before -should there be a harsh punishment?? 😩💔
Such a scary story.
This could happen to any of us.
There by the Grace Of God Goes I. Drowning is equally tragic and upsetting. It may be neurotic, but as mothers, as Grandmother's, father's and Grandfather's we must put our off spring first and foremost, where is the baby? Who has the baby? Vehicles, Pools, Lakes, are extraordinarily dangerous.. It's an accident that Nicole will never recover, her marriage may not recover. I believe these tragedy's increased when we were forced to put the kids in the back seat. When I had my children the babies were next to the driver, older kids in the back. When my Mom had me and my siblings, we didn't have car seats at all and we were all over that vehicle often laying in the back window. I am equally distraught as you told the story of the child who was trapped in a car seat in the extreme heat. Are these 5 point restraints so important that are children until the weight 80 pounds trapped? Lots of questions, and a great discussion and certainly Pediatricians and all Providers must discuss this with their patients. Each case must be reviewed, each death investigated, and if drugs or ETOH was involved then Yes, Prison may be the answer. In cases where is was the wiring, then court ordered probation, counseling, volunteerism and fines paid to promote awareness and technical answers and close monitoring of the adults. Judges have a very big part in this equation.
So powerful!
I worked through nursing school as a paramedic and drove for uber part time. I was so tired I probably shouldn't have been on the road sometimes. I have passed by daycare before, but I could never see myself leaving my child in the backseat.
Stacie Mercer I agree. From what I see you and I are few and far between! Not acceptable! If it was a caretaker or daycare worker would all these sympathetic people be showing sympathy?
I am sure Nicole never dreamt she could have done this either.
Stacie Mercer The problem today is perhaps we are all on auto pilot. I'm not A personality failed nursing school and been as Critical Care tech and Telementry technician for several yrs. It's time we focus on our children first then our careers. But then again lm just Telementry tech/ glorified nursing assistant.
Keep telling yourself that. I pray that the perfect storm never happens to you.
I feel for these families, but I'm curious.... How far back have hot car deaths been happening? I'm trying to understand what has changed. Is it cellphones? Rear facing carseats? Tinted windows? When this happens, are cellphone records checked? I know that nobody is perfect. I'm just trying to understand what is going on when you see the carseat in the rearview, but still forget that your kid is in there. Please help us understand so we can work towards fixing that.
Ideas: 1) Add a safety chain that ties the baby seat to the driver's wrist. 2) Provide a portable small baby figure on the dashboard. These 2 ideas should serve as reminders to check the baby in the back seat.
I believe there are already plastic chains (like the coils that telephones with cords had) that attach the baby seat to the car key.
Amen, ZDogg.
I disagree with the point you made about the difference between now and years ago.
You suggest that some reasons why are rear facing seats and being in the back of the car.
I disagree, as a kid I recall sitting in the back of a ute or panal van which is comparable to putting kids in tbe boot... we weren't forgotten about.
I personally feel, and from the cases I've heard, when this happens, it seems to always be busy working parents.
The difference between the past and now is societies expectations upon mothers... especially new mothers.
A mother of young children should be able to direct her main focus on her child and not be spread so thin across so many expectations from society that the cost becomes a childs life.
You're a good man ZDogg. Go hug a Zpup. :-)
As for actions to be taken I do wonder if putting the seats in the back, facing them backwards, saves more than 30 children/year. If not maybe just repealing that law, but leaving it as recommended parental practice on the car seats themselves, is the way to go.
I understand why car makers don't want those sensors to be mandatory. Not necessarily for the extra cost/complexity. If the sensor/alarm fails for some reason and this happens is the auto-maker legally liable? Though if they have an extremely low failure rate and are easy to test I can totally see a car maker advertising it as an optional feature. But without reading the law if it's worded in such a way that it's an additional cost and legal liability of course they would oppose it. Remove the legal liability and now it's an advertised optional additional feature for parents.