I'm commenting a bit late here, but nevertheless ... A perfect suspension in terms of performance would (with caveats I'll describe below) be one where you don't feel anything in the road at all. The reason for this is that movement of the chassis happens as a result of a force being applied to it from the suspension that differs from gravity. If the suspension caused the tires to follow the road surface perfectly without any change to the contact force between the tires and the road, then there would be no forces transmitted from it to the chassis either, and the end result is that you wouldn't feel anything. The more chassis movement you have, the more in the way of forces that are being transmitted through to the chassis (because it's those forces that are moving the chassis in the first place), and for that to happen there has to be a force variation in the suspension over time, thanks to Newton's third law of motion (the force with which you push something is the same as the force it pushes back against you, which is why you feel pressure on your hand when pushing something). A force variation in the suspension is a force variation at the tire to road interface, meaning you're getting variations in the amount of force with which the tires are pressing onto the road. Variations in that force mean variations in the amount of grip in the tires, so when you're going around a corner fast enough, the end result is that the car will not be planted on the road and will slide when the amount of contact force drops. So all other things being equal (e.g., suspension geometry -- movement in the suspension tends to change the geometry, which in turn changes the grip availability), a suspension that feels softer when going over bumps is a suspension that will give you greater stability in cornering. But because the suspension geometry changes with movement, a softer suspension will tend to yield greater changes in that geometry and *that* can also result in changes of grip while cornering . It ends up being a balance between the two. The better the suspension geometry, the more compliant the suspension can be while maintaining grip. Spring and damper suspensions have limitations that make achieving that impossible, so that's another compromise, but you might want to keep the above in mind and to experiment with driving the car at the limit over bumpy surfaces and with different settings to see what settings actually give you the most consistent cornering grip. You might well find that it's at the softer end of the settings that you get the most consistent cornering grip. That might be surprising but it would make sense given the physics involved.
Great video, you can visually see the difference. Im surprised how much variation there is. I got the b14 thinking the b16 wouldn't be much use with the adjustable settings, but it looks like there is a big difference. I take my impreza on a lot of single track and b roads woth really bad tarmac so maybe on setting 2 or 3 it would be better than my b14. Ill consider these next time for sure. 😎
I hadn't considered changing the suspension on my OG M2 but, I do use it a lot as a daily and the softer setup appeals to me. Maybe if we're ever on the same group drive out, I could sit in the passenger seat to get a feel for it. Great information here!
Thanks. You need something lie down on but it takes less than a minute per corner. You can really see it well but you go to the end of the scale and then go back counting the clicks.
@@MDrives Have you driven the Yorkshire TT - also known as the A1257 road from Stokesley to Helmsley. Not far from you and an awesome road. Sadly often spolied by bikers who race past on a straight then slow you down in the bends!
Fantastic video as ever, can you tell me where you got the B16's? They fluctuate so much in price! I was just looking at Eibach pro springs but after watching your video it may tempt me to go for tge coilovers as my area has some pretty horrible roads!
I bought them through ML Performance. I had Eibach springs on my M135i and they did improve the handling but made the car more crashy. They might work for people who live in European cities with smooth roads. To me coilovers were the best mod to the car.
I’m still debating between the B16 PSS10 and the KW V3 coilovers. I recently had front camber plates added and rear toe arms to get the geometry adjusted past what the factory components allow. The added camber front and rear has made a huge difference to the turn in and grip on the car. I also added front solid bushes on the control arms which adds more control under braking and feel through the steering and seat. You mention “wobble” on the softer settings, that’s obviously more body roll being induced by the softer setting…you could add larger anti roll bars which would get rid of the roll but then still give you a soft ride for daily driving ?? Can you remember what your camber was set to after installing the coilovers? “Go ahead smash this corner!!” 😂😂 love it !!
I was also debating on them two but what sway me the B16 route was the ability to adjust them when they are on the car. With V3 you can’t adjust the rears without taking them off a car which is a bit of a bummer. Great advice on the sway bars. I might do the bushes at some point in the future. I think I have 2 degree front and 1.5 rear.
@@MDrives one of the reasons I’m looking at the KW is the Inox coating which stops them from corroding. They also drop the height lower, but that’s not the priority, the corrosion inhibition is.
Great video and interesting your comment about it feeling ‘M-Lite’ in the softest setting. I found the M2 too stiff as standard and so am in a birds M140i which provides a good mixture between comfort and performance. After watching this I am tempted to revisit the M2 but with coilovers. And finally, in which setting did you leave the car in the end?
Thanks. I would have to drive it back to back with an mlite but that was the best comparison I could make. I just set it to 4,3 now but haven’t had a chance to drive it yet. I will report back on it. I agree, M2 in stock form felt very stiff.not sure how far from me do you live. Happy to give you a ride if you can meet me.
Hi, I wondered if you might soften it a bit further after observing your reaction. For daily use I think I would do the same considering the terrible condition of our roads. I never considered modifying an M2 with coilovers when I tried it, but then ended up in a modified M140i, so your approach is really interesting to learn about as a future option. It would be great to sample your car, many thanks for the offer. Likewise you’d be welcome to have a go in my m140i (or Cayman), but this might take a while to line up as I live South West near Bristol and I believe you are North West right? Cheers Greg
@MDrives no mate the B12 was the yellow Bilstein dampers and Eibach springs pretty good after the standard suspension but they were rusting out so I fitted the Kw's and what a difference.
@MDrives I had them on the car about 4.5 years , to be fair our weather isn't great in the UK is it and one of the bottom bushes went on a rear damper but other than that they were OK.
Hi. Never experienced them but I’ve heard from people that they are low cost coilovers and not really appropriate for M2. Apparently good for cheap track cars but not the best damping on a road.
Great video mate, very informative and gave me some good numbers for my next track day on mine 👍
Thanks Tim.
I'm commenting a bit late here, but nevertheless ...
A perfect suspension in terms of performance would (with caveats I'll describe below) be one where you don't feel anything in the road at all. The reason for this is that movement of the chassis happens as a result of a force being applied to it from the suspension that differs from gravity. If the suspension caused the tires to follow the road surface perfectly without any change to the contact force between the tires and the road, then there would be no forces transmitted from it to the chassis either, and the end result is that you wouldn't feel anything. The more chassis movement you have, the more in the way of forces that are being transmitted through to the chassis (because it's those forces that are moving the chassis in the first place), and for that to happen there has to be a force variation in the suspension over time, thanks to Newton's third law of motion (the force with which you push something is the same as the force it pushes back against you, which is why you feel pressure on your hand when pushing something). A force variation in the suspension is a force variation at the tire to road interface, meaning you're getting variations in the amount of force with which the tires are pressing onto the road. Variations in that force mean variations in the amount of grip in the tires, so when you're going around a corner fast enough, the end result is that the car will not be planted on the road and will slide when the amount of contact force drops.
So all other things being equal (e.g., suspension geometry -- movement in the suspension tends to change the geometry, which in turn changes the grip availability), a suspension that feels softer when going over bumps is a suspension that will give you greater stability in cornering. But because the suspension geometry changes with movement, a softer suspension will tend to yield greater changes in that geometry and *that* can also result in changes of grip while cornering . It ends up being a balance between the two. The better the suspension geometry, the more compliant the suspension can be while maintaining grip.
Spring and damper suspensions have limitations that make achieving that impossible, so that's another compromise, but you might want to keep the above in mind and to experiment with driving the car at the limit over bumpy surfaces and with different settings to see what settings actually give you the most consistent cornering grip. You might well find that it's at the softer end of the settings that you get the most consistent cornering grip. That might be surprising but it would make sense given the physics involved.
Great video, you can visually see the difference. Im surprised how much variation there is. I got the b14 thinking the b16 wouldn't be much use with the adjustable settings, but it looks like there is a big difference. I take my impreza on a lot of single track and b roads woth really bad tarmac so maybe on setting 2 or 3 it would be better than my b14.
Ill consider these next time for sure. 😎
Thanks. Regards 👋
Amaning video as allways, keep it up!!
Thanks mate! Regards 👋
Great review, got me looking at new suspension now though 😂
Thanks! Hahaha! 🤣
Im searhing for best coilover for softest ride. Whats your opinion? Kw v3?
I’m yet to drive my mates M2 with V3s.
Bilstein don't make gimmicks my friend!
Sorry but I don’t understand what you’re saying?
Excellent. I need Scotland, Highlands video with nice background music as did earlier.....❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks regards👋
exactly the video i have been looking for on the b16! I will be pulling the trigger on these soon. Excellent review!
Thank you. I had them for over a year now and absolutely no regrets.
Looks like I'll be joining you two - was thinking about going with a not-Bilstein choice. Why would I...?
@@justingallagher4864 I can’t fault the suspension so far. Works great.
I hadn't considered changing the suspension on my OG M2 but, I do use it a lot as a daily and the softer setup appeals to me. Maybe if we're ever on the same group drive out, I could sit in the passenger seat to get a feel for it. Great information here!
Hi. Where do you live? I would be happy for you to get the feel of the car. At the moment I set it to 4 and 3 and it’s a nice compromise.
@@MDrives thanks Marek. I’m near Liverpool but often head up to Yorkshire for work so I’ll let you know when I’m heading back 👍🏼
@@BaldHorsePower.drop me a message when you do and we can arrange something. 👋
Thank you for this video. It was very informative 👍
Not a problem. Regards 👋
Great video, many thanks, how easy is it to change the settings?
Thanks. You need something lie down on but it takes less than a minute per corner. You can really see it well but you go to the end of the scale and then go back counting the clicks.
@@MDrives Nice one, thank you
I am having the same issue with G30 5 series
What issue? To stiff suspension?
Good video, Marek. Thank you!
Thanks
What is the best Setting from road?? Thanks ✌️
For a daily driving I settled at 4 front 3 rear. For more aggressive driving 6-5 is good.
@@MDrives Thank You ✌️
Great video Marek
Thanks mate! 👋
Think I’ll get the 240 out 👍🏼
If dry, use the opportunity! 👋
Where are you from, Marek? 👋🤝🍀
Harrogate NY
@@MDrives Marek is a common name in Slovakia. NY - New York? :)
@@tomastoth5026 North Yorkshire. It’s a Polish name
@@MDrives Yes, also Polish.. Good luck 🍀💗
@@MDrives Have you driven the Yorkshire TT - also known as the A1257 road from Stokesley to Helmsley. Not far from you and an awesome road. Sadly often spolied by bikers who race past on a straight then slow you down in the bends!
Fantastic video as ever, can you tell me where you got the B16's? They fluctuate so much in price! I was just looking at Eibach pro springs but after watching your video it may tempt me to go for tge coilovers as my area has some pretty horrible roads!
I bought them through ML Performance. I had Eibach springs on my M135i and they did improve the handling but made the car more crashy. They might work for people who live in European cities with smooth roads. To me coilovers were the best mod to the car.
I’m still debating between the B16 PSS10 and the KW V3 coilovers. I recently had front camber plates added and rear toe arms to get the geometry adjusted past what the factory components allow.
The added camber front and rear has made a huge difference to the turn in and grip on the car. I also added front solid bushes on the control arms which adds more control under braking and feel through the steering and seat.
You mention “wobble” on the softer settings, that’s obviously more body roll being induced by the softer setting…you could add larger anti roll bars which would get rid of the roll but then still give you a soft ride for daily driving ??
Can you remember what your camber was set to after installing the coilovers?
“Go ahead smash this corner!!” 😂😂 love it !!
I was also debating on them two but what sway me the B16 route was the ability to adjust them when they are on the car. With V3 you can’t adjust the rears without taking them off a car which is a bit of a bummer.
Great advice on the sway bars.
I might do the bushes at some point in the future.
I think I have 2 degree front and 1.5 rear.
@@MDrives one of the reasons I’m looking at the KW is the Inox coating which stops them from corroding. They also drop the height lower, but that’s not the priority, the corrosion inhibition is.
So after that test, what setting have you reverted to as your optimal?
4-3 seems to be a good setting for daily driving and occasional spirited driving
Great video and interesting your comment about it feeling ‘M-Lite’ in the softest setting. I found the M2 too stiff as standard and so am in a birds M140i which provides a good mixture between comfort and performance. After watching this I am tempted to revisit the M2 but with coilovers.
And finally, in which setting did you leave the car in the end?
Thanks. I would have to drive it back to back with an mlite but that was the best comparison I could make. I just set it to 4,3 now but haven’t had a chance to drive it yet. I will report back on it. I agree, M2 in stock form felt very stiff.not sure how far from me do you live. Happy to give you a ride if you can meet me.
Hi, I wondered if you might soften it a bit further after observing your reaction. For daily use I think I would do the same considering the terrible condition of our roads. I never considered modifying an M2 with coilovers when I tried it, but then ended up in a modified M140i, so your approach is really interesting to learn about as a future option. It would be great to sample your car, many thanks for the offer. Likewise you’d be welcome to have a go in my m140i (or Cayman), but this might take a while to line up as I live South West near Bristol and I believe you are North West right?
Cheers
Greg
I fitted KW V2 Suspension on my M135i very impressive after having a B12 kit .
B12 was not adjustable?
@MDrives no mate the B12 was the yellow Bilstein dampers and Eibach springs pretty good after the standard suspension but they were rusting out so I fitted the Kw's and what a difference.
@@richardtrow2751 ahhh 😧 How long you had them since new before they rusted?
@MDrives I had them on the car about 4.5 years , to be fair our weather isn't great in the UK is it and one of the bottom bushes went on a rear damper but other than that they were OK.
@@richardtrow2751 thanks for the information. KW definitely are build from better materials.
How about Bc racing ?
Hi. Never experienced them but I’ve heard from people that they are low cost coilovers and not really appropriate for M2. Apparently good for cheap track cars but not the best damping on a road.