Be sure to check out my other videos on ebike law: Throttle law: ua-cam.com/video/YSSVDMgpgBM/v-deo.html Power law: ua-cam.com/video/_SqhglS_SPw/v-deo.html The drone that's filming me on the roads is the Hover X1 - a tiny automated drone that basically follows you around. My next video will be filmed exclusively by that drone! Check them out here, they're amazing! bit.ly/3rqL7gZ
Under rated channel.... Really is. I got advise from you ages ago about this, and I got one, a 750w fat bike and have worked doing deliveries ever since, seen by the police many times and no issue so I just ignore the dam BS law. I just got a 1000W bike that looks like a motorbike, hopefully that goes ok, cant see why it wont, all unlocked. If there is going to be a law, maybe a 1000w and up to 20 to 25mph, only on the road or paths for cycle paths.
I'm living in America and here is... - 20 mph for cycle lane - 28 mph for Class III(PAS) - 35 mph for Moped(upto) In my opinion, 20~30 mph is just quite enough. In addition, our motor power is 750 W nominal, don't care about peak power. The speed limit could be different from each area, but my opinion is if the cycle lane is fully covered in the city, we do not need to run faster, but in some point we must share the line with other car and motorcycle in the downtown or some narrow area. And in this case, if we ride slow speed, I think both, me and other car are dangerous to each other. So, I personally choice speeding, go on a sidewalk(legal here) or slowdown and passing the car or far away from the car. (...and must check my radar detector first, when I'm speeding.)
@@toydigger It's about being able to control the vehicle and safety. Most people who complain about the E-bike speed limit being too slow actually want an E-motorbike; but don't want the legal responsibilities and cost associated with having license, insurance etc. Electrically assisted E-bikes are only meant to assist people in riding their bikes. They are not meant as a means to break the road laws. If you can't normally safely ride at speeds exceeding 15.5mph then why would an E-bike help you be more dangerous on the roads ? Race bike riders would normally gradually pick up speed when it's safe to do so; they don't just throttle to the highest speed possible. E-motorbikes are meant for those who want an E-bike that can go faster than 15.5mph.
From personal experience and talking to local bike shops. The consensuses is that 18mph would be the ideal speed before the pedal assist stops. This is a very reasonable speed and a speed that is easily achievable on the flat by the average rider on a non powered bike. Even at that speed a razer blade on wheels will flash past me like I am standing still!!! 18mph is still a safe speed, having costed down a hill at 30mph I was aware that if something happened and I came off it was going to be very painful. I agree with your observation about the bike traveling at 25mph. As a professional driver and cyclist I can see both sides of the argument and I drive my waggon in a way that is respectful to all road users. The biggest frustration I have is the 250 watt restriction. What you have to consider is that as soon as you pass 15.5mph you are suddenly affected by the weight of the bike and maybe a little motor drag. On my Bosch powered Scott Aspect there is very little motor drag but its a 25Kg bike before you add items like penners and other accessories. I am maybe a little over weight at 100Kg but even on a medium to steep climb the motor is too weak to provide usable assistance even in 2nd gear. I suspect the motor is more than 250 watt as the bike is sold outside the EU and its unlikely that they do a different motor for different laws. They simply put a power restrictor on it for the EU market. But I could be wrong.
Yeah you’re right, yours is probably more like a 1000w being an expensive bike I’ve got a cheap C90 and that’s also sold all over but is advertised on Amazon as being 250w but it’s 750w and I get 35mph with quite a boost. Yours will only need a few quick clicks to unlock the top speed I would imagine, most of them are just restricted with the software rather than a wire so it’s easy enough. I’ve bought 250w stickers off eBay and put them on the motor and frame for if I get pulled but I wont be able to explain the twist throttle though.
My biggest problem is the motor and throttle laws, it’s ridiculous. One of the first videos I did on my channel a couple of months ago I stated I’d be happy with 15.5mph as long as I could have a 750w motor to get me there. I weigh 250lb. On Saturday I rode nearly 50 miles on my Engwe Engine X in PAS 5 and rarely went above 16-17 mph unless it was downhill. (I’ve modified my Engine X to 50ah by the way) I agree about the brakes … I have Magura MT5e’s on the front and 2 piston hydraulics on the rear. Mechanical brakes don’t cut it on the 20x4 fat e-bikes. Helmets and mirrors should be compulsory too as well as brake lights. All that said … 20mph is a happy medium, get rid of that ridiculous throttle law (it’s dangerous) and help heavier riders with 750w motors. Let us be responsible for ourselves and stop throwing ebikers in the same category as 15 year olds in balaclavas riding on the pavements two up at 50mph.
I'm an adult capable of making my own decisions, and of taking my own acceptable level of risk. Therefore, no requirement imposing helmet or mirrors is acceptable. If YOU want those things no one is preventing you from having them.
@@rayrussell6258 well done you. And when you finally have an accident and you get you head caved in let me know how the replacement brain operation went.
@@ModProjects4306 I'm close to 70 and I've been riding bikes for 60 years, no mirrors or helmet, I can turn my head and look around just fine; it's foolish to not LIVE LIFE, because you worry about the sky falling all the time and can't enjoy anything. Sorry you are so sad ModProj, and think it's your job to tell others how to live their life; it must be miserable being you.
Couple of things touched on in the video 1. throttle should be able to propel the bicycle up to its regulated speed can’t see why this is a problem 2. the maximum speed under assistance should be 20 mph which not only brings us in line with other European Countries but coupled with the throttle would enable the ( more mature) rider to navigate normal road gradients without having to keep peddling like mad to get up the gradient.
@@badabing8884 yes 25 km/h or 15.5 mph is the standard in Europe, however I think they should allow more power, with drivers license, to maintain speed uphills. Possibly keep the cutoff speed at 25 km/h Possibly only 250 W at startup, but allow more power to accelerate and maintain 25 km/h.
I think that after many years of cycling and being able to easily achieve 17 mph +, that e bikes should be able to do 20mph to keep up with the flow of traffic better
US e-biker here, Speed is completely based on location. 30mph is dangerous on a sidewalk, a busy city, or a crowded road. but if you are headed down an open highway you spend less time in the way of traffic if you can. Car traffic will be less angry on someone going 30mph, than going 10mph and blocking them. Naturally, there will be more accidents and deaths, it's a new thing and the hobby exploded faster than pickleball. My e-bike can go 50+ and I have hit those speeds to merge with traffic for short distances so I'm not stopping the flow and going back to the shoulder when it's safe. It's simply safer for me to travel at highway speeds than it is for me to go 12mph on a canyon road holding back traffic and forcing cars to go into oncoming traffic to pass.
I hear what you're saying about motorists having an irresistible urge to overtake a bike (electric or otherwise). However, rather than bowing to a human feeling, surely we should be focussing more on educating motorists (including ourselves) that the roads are a shared resource. In the interests of respect and safety, we should be promoting tolerance and and a bit of empathy. This works both ways, of course - As e-bikers, we also have a responsibility to behave safely and respect other road users. It all comes down to a bit of give and take and showing some self control. Personally I think powered assist to 20mph is a reasonable compromise between safety and encouraging folks to see the bike as a viable alternative to the car for shorter trips. Always entertaining videos - keep 'em coming! 🙂
I’m literally 25 years old and have been driving since 17 and I have steadily seen motorists get stupider and less patient each year…I think education is the way but I think to many people just don’t care sadly.
i think the education should be to the cyclists rather than the drivers. I do both, drive and cycle and i see more arrogance and disrespect from cyclists that car drivers. Yes there a right pigs out there driving, but if you were to put a ratio on drivers and cyclists, you would find every twenty car drivers there's at least one pig. But on the other hand with cyclists out of 20 there would be 19 pigs.
If we are able to maintain a speed of 20 mph, although still slower than other road users, we enjoy the advantage of easily stopping, allowing them to pass and then resuming our journey without the significant energy expenditure required of traditional cyclists. Moreover, it is crucial to embrace initiatives similar to those in Denmark, where dedicated cycle routes not only connect towns by cutting across the countryside but also require regular road sweeping to ensure debris-free paths, enhancing safety for cyclists.
It's definitely nice having the ability to keep with traffic depending on the road and situation. However, in the past few months I've also realized that it's often easier to ride slower than traffic. Here in the USA, even if I am on a Class 3 bike doing 28mph in a 25mph zone, it's still stuck in every driver's mind "I NEED to pass the bike" leading to an even angrier driver. Cruising at less than the speed limit does seem to cause less headaches. Likewise, on the trails I often putt with the motor off or low assist levels and never touch the throttle. I know from experience as a pedestrian that bicycles, assisted or not, just love to whiz by without warning so I always keep a bell on my bike to alert people. I often get thanked for ringing and calling out. It's important to keep the public's view of E-Bikes positive.
Ive had aggressive road rage today from and idiot in a big mercedes . I was following a truck in a big line of traffic at 20 - 30 mph for half a mile . Then all of a sudden he accelerated along side me shouting and swearing cus he obviously didnt like following a bike . He went absolutely nuts at me for just following traffic then slammed his brakes on . I just went onto the footpath and turned off cus hes obviously got serious mental health problems 🤪 . . In 2000 miles ive only had 3 raging drivers go mad at me because im following traffic . . I guess for some people, when they are bejng held up by traffic, theyve got to blaim the cyclist rather than the 10 vehicles im following 🙄🤦♂️
@e-VRC lol yes.... when he sped in front then slammed his brakes on, . Thats when i took the pavement and just turned into a housing estate to take the long but quiet route back . I left him there all angry and fighty after hed just took his seatbelt off and opened the door . . The 10+ cars behind would of seen it all and got annoyed at him for stopping on a steap hill . . The best bit is just up the road is more traffic lights and more roadworks just after 😅 . . He must of sat there for ages looking like a right T##T, with all those people behind him blaiming him for missing the green light at the top and holding THEM up 😅 . . Ahhhhhh Instant KARMA
As a non-ebike cyclist, I'm often at around 25mph in 30 limits. As recommended in the Highway Code, if I don't feel it's safe for motorists to overtake, I'll adopt prime position well out in the lane so they simply cannot overtake without using the other lane. Too many cyclists ride in the gutter which encourages unsafe, even illegal, overtakes
Yup I ride my skateboard like that. It’s my lane now deal with it. Drivers can take it up with the people who open their doors without looking and drive too close when I do leave space
I have no issues on a bicycle or a recumbent trike. I ride in a similar fashion to yourself. Due to my training as an Advanced Rider and Driver though , I beleive has made me a very safe cyclist.
Precisely. And riding in the gutter is in itself a hazard - having to avoid deep drains, pot-holes etc, with little room for maneuver when vehicles are overtaking you. Drivers don't always give you the required distance when passing, so we're often forced to ride tight to the kerb.
In the US the law for cyclist is ride as far to the right as is safe and cars must pass with a minimum of 3 feet, and your well out in the lane is just your ego and will get you hurt or worse.
@@ohwell2790Sort of- it’s actually similar to the UK in that you take more of the lane if it’s not wide enough, primary position. An extract from the USA rules and regulations for cyclists: Lane Positioning Bikes can share the same lane with other drivers. If a lane is wide enough to share with another vehicle (about 14 feet), ride three feet to the right of traffic. If the lane is not wide enough to share, “take the lane” by riding in the middle.
I feel like if you are over a certain age u should be able to go 30mph, u can now but registering an Ebike as a moped is so impossible. But I also believe an Ebike should be able to have any power and speed but we need to ride at speed limits. Just because then we the people can use the ebike for commuting to work at 15-30mph or able to play around off road with the higher wattages
Man that sucks that the laws are so Draconian there in Europe. I’m in the middle of building a dual 3.5kw, 72v on a tiny Swagtron EB5 i scored that was non working for about 30 quid. I’m of course in rural, central Florida where no one is really paying attention to e-bikes or high powered scooters. A guy about 10lm from here built an 8kw mtn bike that has gone 86mph. I have not met a single person here in the USA that has an ebike or scooter speed limited to what the laws state. Even my daily commuter Swagtron EB7 with only a 350w motor, dual batteries, & controller shunt mod increased top speed from 15.6mph to 28.7. Add in the 69t front chainring and I can pedal it to 32mph. Granted this part of Florida is low population so it’s more or less animals you have to worry about hitting as almost no one walks here, especially when summers can exceed 40C in temps. We also do not have the scooter restrictions here either. I have an Evolv Sprint that will get a dual 1kw motor upgrade from the stock 36v 400w single motor setup. I wish you guys luck over there with those laws. Over here, California, NYC, and other liberal run areas are attempting to follow EU laws, but the rest of the country here is still wide open on things. We don’t even require smog or auto inspections here in Florida. So, for now, we get to enjoy a bit more freedom than most places. I’m going to create a new channel showcasing my builds very soon. Cheers from Sebring, FL!!
I'd like to weigh in here. I'm in America and my State's e-bike laws are 750w and 20mph. I'm currently riding the Jasion EB3. I find that on that small bike 12 mph is enjoyable AND safer to control. The faster I go the harder it is to control. 7mph is also enjoyable but there's less stability and a lot of handlebars jerking to keep straight. I'm assuming that on a larger bike the 20mph would be more satisfying and easier to control. With the EB3 I can barely go one-handed let alone hands free. On my 26" regular mountain bike I can go hands free at 7-8mph and the faster I go the easier it becomes to stay hands free even rounding corners. That's impossible with the EB3. You're correct that while driving the instinct is to overtake the rider. Before my State's bike laws included or differentiated internal combustion from electric bikes I was able to go 40mph on my diy 2-stroke conversion bike. Whenever I'd be riding in a 35mph zone at 35-36mph cars would ALWAYS speed up and pass me exceeding the posted speed limit to do so. "Nevermind the law, I absolutely require of myself to break the speed law and illegally pass this puny bicycle" 😢 People see a bicycle and have the insatiable desire to pass it. 🤷 Now that the law has been updated it's better because they can pass me much safer than before.
That is a ridiculous and irresponsible statement I have heard for a long time most cyclists do not show common sense let alone obey laws. Your idea would end in carnage.
@@stephenhill8675no, what is ridiculous is punishing the equipment and not the operators. Objects don’t commit crime people do. Education, etiquette, and general safety rules make more common sense than restricting the equipment. A dangerous and rude rider on a 250kw bike with no throttle is still a dangerous and rude rider while the polite and safe one is no problem than with a more powerful bike.
I live in an area where responsible people act responsibly and dickheads ride multi-KW 'bikes' causing absolute mayhem. It's completely lawless - the cops aren't allowed to give chase and every dickhead knows this so is encouraged to buy a high powered e-bike (not even pedal bikes, but unregistered electric motorbikes) because there's no way to catch them. This results in teens riding on congested roads at 60MPH and not even slowing for red lights. Untill we have policing that can catch lawbreakers then the only way to have any semblance of reasonable riding is to regulate what is available to ride.
I'd be happy with 20mph, it's the speed limit in most town centres and residential areas. If I'm in my car following another vehicle (bicycles included!) doing 25, I'm not going to try to overtake, and I'm quite impatient.
I think the problem is if you de-restrict them too much you get idiots riding them like nutters on pavements etc, and it just ruins it for everybody else.
@@trydowave Isn't that what speed limits are for car drivers? I'm an advanced driver and could drive around town at much higher speed than 95% of other drivers but I'm penalised into driving more slowly due to the lack of competence of other drivers. So we have laws restricting everyone because it must be made reasonable for the majority.
I wouldn't be surprised if private ebikes were banned by hired ones were legal, as with scooters, you see the rich who make the laws can buy shares in the hire companies before passing the law
I agree with a lot of the other commenters here, 20 MPH. I'm not sure I can pedal my Engwe EP-2 Pro any faster anyway thanks to the damn fat tyres. It's so heavy that I'm starting to regret buying it instead of say the C-20 Pro. I'm even thinking of swapping the tyres out for semi slicks like the Kenda Kraze or the CST range.
The necessity to limit the speed to something comparable to normal bicycles is one factor. It affects blake-types, illuminatioon required, hemet-type etc. , the 2nd factor is that average speed increases will rapidly reduce the survivability and types and severity of injuries. Advantage of the 25Km limit is that we will be talking about bicycles with an added motor to help with hills etc. rather than about mopeds that have pedals to camouflage that they are not realistically comparable to bicycles and require better brakes, lighting, helmets etc. Personally, I'd prefer the limit to be raise to 18-20 mph. But I can live with 15.5
i mean falling of at 2 miles hour is enough to do alot damage, I know from experience I have long lasting damage in my wrist now, ebikew throw you down
My argument about 250 watts is that I live in a hilly area, and 250 watts doesn't have the power to get the bike up steep hills, so it's like a hill tax, for me sudden de-acceleration can be dangerous if a car is close behind you, which happens a lot
I’m really glad that I live in the states! Theoretically, 28 mph is the law, many ebikes go faster! They just have to be unlocked. We have e-bikes that go 40 mph! But, unlike Europe, we have empty sidewalks and streets. People DON’T walk here! Something that probably contributes to our obesity!
The main thing when riding any kind of bicycle is to be alert to your surroundings and follow the rules of the road,traffic rules and the highway code. This also applies to any vehicle on the road ,whether it's a normal non-electic bike or a HGV.
Also, I’ve got to add to this. A blanket figure, such as 19mph is also wrong. Uber/lime bikes can alter the speed limit of their bikes according to zones. 10mph in a park and 19mph on a road would, I feel, be much more safe for everyone.
A lot of recent imported e-bikes are actually mechanically very safe…they have sturdy frames, fat tyres designed to provide high grip even on loose materials and hydraulic disc brakes which are very effective. Some like the Cyrusher Kommoda now include a built in rear light and brake light. In cycle terms these machines are over engineered. As such the cycle is perfectly safe to operate at 30mph and probably 10mph more than that! The PROBLEM is the competence and care of the rider. Kids and young adults with no formal road craft training are the ones doing 90% of the inconsiderate, unsafe and illegal riding….They just don’t give a fig, until they are hit by a vehicle or run into a person. Not all young riders are unsafe or reckless, but the ones that are, bring scorn and draconian regulation down upon us all. I believe we need two or three tiers of ebike regs. T1: All ages may operate an electric vehicle upto 4 mph including on most otherwise pedestrian areas. T2: E bikes/trikes/ scooters and mono wheels for 18+ year olds limited to 20 mph subject to passing a mandatory basic road safety and awareness course. T3: E bikes/trikes/scooters (probably not mono wheels) upto 30 mph IF a full car/motorcycle/truck licence has been passed to validate knowledge of Roadcraft and theory elements. What we do not need…is more draconian, authoritarian police state control under the false guise of “safety”. What we DO need is a firmer application of existing road law to riders who ignore the rules and safe riding practice.
I have bought a Eskuta sx-250 series iii. Thanks for your encouragement from your videos. I find where I live is hilly, uphill downhill. I moved from a flat area you could go anywhere on my mountain bike. But I moved two years ago to a hiilly area. Back to speed question. It would be nice to have a speed of 20mph. Because every car and lorry are trying to pass me. I feel that at 20mph I might not be such a hinderence. The brakes on the sx-250 series iii are disk brakes. Which stop very good. I hope that my feedback helps. All the best Ron from South Derbyshire.
I loved the Eskuta but I did wish with pedalling you could get it to about 20. I did sneakily derestrict it for a bit but the battery ran down fast. How are you finding the eskuta does up hills? I was fairly impressed and it's good that you CAN help by pedalling when going up hill.
I have had a de regulated e bike for 5 years.The extra acceleration and speed has saved me from a lot of bad situations from following and overtaking cars.
the UK has some of the most ridiculous rules on ebikes, segways, scooters etc when compared with the rest of the world. so how come when I was 12 years old on an Eddie Mercs 12 speed drop handlebar pedal cycle I could easily do 30 mikes an hour down a great Lancashire hill with a wind behind me and no legal implications what so ever and now on an ADO A16 I have to restrict it's potential to just 4 miles and hour - and remove the throttle to replace with a thumb switch - and only am allowed 15 mikes an hour in assist mode? crazy crazy crazy. having said all that I had the ADO for a week, rode it four time and came off, why? because the suspension made it chatter rather than stop when brakes applied, the dry weight made it impossible to side skid to a stop and the turning circle with such narrow handle bars made it just about miss a parked car. and that was set at full throttle mode 10 miles an hour. that's' all 4 years ago and I dare say the new Ado carbon is a nod in the right direction. ditch the rules let cheap, easy, green transport flourish.
20mph should be the limit, 15.5 is a bit silly, and its probably the average speed of an 80yo cyclist whos never been on a bike before, most cyclists average well over 20mph on the flat on non e-bikes. that said my average ride speed is 22 mph on my heavier E-bike, but i do live in an exceptionally hilly area hence having an e-bike, up steep hills its 14mph with full assistance, a higher speed limit wont change my top speed at all because 250watt, (although we know its not 250w) isnt enough to go faster. but 20 mph limit, unrestricted motor size... if it got more people out of their cars and cycling isnt that the whole point??
Complete deristriction of ebikes for anyone with a full motorcycle license, like me who's been riding motorbikes since the mid 1970s & have ridden in excess of 200mph For anyone without a full bike license keep ebikes restricted without training, up the speed to about 30mph with CBT training & no limit for having a full bike license Make the CBT course & test fairly difficult with a similar criteria as motorcycle training with parts 1, 2 & 3, highway code, training centre & road riding evaluation
My Bafang does 45 in power 5 mode but is legal in power 1. I use power 1 around towns/built up areas and higher powers on the open road. Have been passsed in both directions by the police at 30 + and as it is a pedal assist set up and I'm pedalling, they dont bat an eyelid. I like the idea of having to gain training certification to ride higher power bikes, but there should be an unrestricted upper limit for category 3 or whatever the label.
As far as I'm concerned when you take into account traffic that an e-bike rider can be in, not even on the highways that is, where occasionally the flow can be at 35-40 MPH, I don't see any valid enough reason not to allow that. It's safer for the riders, and the automobile drivers aren't being as tempted to make unsafe passes on a single lane with opposing traffic for him. Here the official limit on a Class III e-bike is 28MPH was translates to power assist up to 31-32MPH. Admittedly it's not that often to be in that traffic flow, but it does happen. I hate being squeezed in that situation.
Ebike current legislation I have been considering the issues you raised in your videos regards ebike current legislation. The issues are far more complex and far reaching than just speed, power , throttle ,etc. You touch on some of the fundamental problems associated with electrical assisted bikes which also apply to scooters. I believe a complete review of the law is long overdue. This review should not only encompass speed, power output, throttle usage but include the following: Vehicle road suitability ( maintenance and possible test by approved test engineer) Vehicle classification Rider road training and competence (CBT) Possible vehicle insurance Possible registration At present no support structure exists to even maintain electric bikes or scooters to safe road suitability. There is no requirement for riders to be road competent. It's almost impossible to register an ebike currently with the DVLA (if you so desired) I see the main requirements as follows: 1. Vehicle to be road worthy and compliant to new regulations 2. Driver competent to use said vehicle 3 Driver to comply with the highway code regulations. Speed, power output, throttle usage would be irrelevant if Items (1-3) are adhered to. I am am a 68 year old disabled driver who has ridden ebikes since their first introduction years ago and l ride them for health reasons as well as for fun. I am currently deliberately breaking the law by riding a powerful ebike with a 750 w motor derestricted with a throttle fitted because I need to overcome the inertia of a heavy bike with a pedal assist system that requires me to turn the crank several times before the motor engages which because of my disability and weight I find difficult. I am allowed to modify my motor vehicle to accommodate my disability so I do the same with my ebike even if I am breaking the law for the first time in my half century of driving. I have a full driving licence and have been driving cars, motorcycles etc. For over 50 years and hold a current CBT motorcycle license. My observations are based upon my experience gained during this time. And I feel It's not so much the vehicle or power that is dangerous but incompetent drivers using unroadworthy vehicles not complying to the current legislation as other road users have to. I personally would be willing to undergo some form of ebike CBT if it existed Have my bike maintained serviced and tested by competently trained cycle engineers if they existed. Insure my bike if proper insurance schemes were available. Obviously my comments are controversial but not only the law but the complete support structure regarding electrically assisted vehicles need to be addressed by concerned and informed parties and not just some uninformed unelected committee of politically motivated MPs .
I have a 250w Jorvik electric mountain trike which weighs 50+kgs, plus tools, etc. I weigh about 85kgs. It does have a "throttle" but this will only power the trike to walking speed, on level ground. On even the gentlest slope, a hill start is very difficult, if not impossible. 250w is not nearly enough power to pull away safely uphill at a busy road junction. If there is loose gravel, it's even worse. I do not have a real problem with the max powered speed. At 74, 15.5 mph is quite fast enough for me, but 20mph would be better.
I would be happy with 20mph, i can do that on a bicycle but its some more power thats needed, Some places like where i live are very hilly & its a stuggle to move at a sensible speed because of that.
The 15.5mph is fine with me, the bike has helped me improve my health. Saw a video recently where a UK supplier took bikes that they’d assembled to the Government to be tested and allowed to use a throttle up to the permitted speed, each bike needed testing individually for approval.
I agree , my 250 watt e bike is ok with me. I don't want to be going 20 or 30 miles an hour. If you get knocked off at those speeds your either going to die or be seriously hurt No thankyou.
15.5 seems to work to be honest. I certainly do not think it is ridiculously slow, but it is not fast. I think the main one would have to be the 250w. It could not be any lower. We should be allowed 500w/maybe 750 peak. Throttles I am not too bothered about, they are good for pulling away, but as long as you have a 4mph button and a low gear it should not be that bad. If you are in a high gear... what you doing in a high gear waiting to pull away?
Ok so here my take, 1 -15.5mph is fast enough for a e-bicycle -reason for this is that I’m a city dweller and I have seen how a large majority of unregulated “e-bicycle” speed bus none e-bicycle in a narrow cycle lane 2-you state what is the difference between a car user who has taken a test years ago compared to a cyclist -for a start the driver needs an annual MOT to make sure the motor is road worthy and I can tell as a bicycle mechanic I see a lot a e-bike that I would ride with no motored assist let alone with one.Then the car is registered to a single user or family and if lets say someone was to jump a red light and hit and run there is a far greater chance that the motor could be identified. 3- if you want to go 30min then get a moped or in another method just use a cycle. In the city bicycle are a mode of transport for most for other it is just a way to piss about and have fun and then there are thouse that are just dick heads “you now who you are”
Hi, My perspective, and I am only playing the devils advocate as a legal analyst on this one, is that, existing moped and eMoped laws specify that they have to be legally restricted to 28mph maximum speed, which is only 12.5 mph more than an eBike anyway, but they require reg, insurance you to be over 16 and have a at least a provisional driving license. The point here is that given the fact that in reality the only main difference is throttle and 12.5mph top end this gives very little wiggle room between the 2 classes for any speed increase. That is without first changing the law and legally increasing the moped classification top speed which simply isn’t going to happen, for the safety reason that many 16 year olds are inexperienced at driving a motor vehicles on the road in traffic, as they are first time road users. So QED, this is a totally mute point as it is never going to legally happen anyway. Best Regards, Ben VPN, City-Desk:
Gotta love the logic of: "Car drivers are entitled and will make dangerous passes even when there's little to no actual gain... therefore we must limit a completely different vehicle." Cars... the problem is cars..... Now I actually do think that 25kph, is perfectly fine for my e-bike. It's quite relaxing and I feel like it is a good maximum speed for any bike lane that interacts with pedestrians. I do go significantly faster on my regular old bike, but I'm honestly glad e-bikes are limited like that. However, with city planning being what it is, I am often forced up on the 50kph roads, which I hate, though I feel that would be a lot safer if I could hit a switch and get a temporary speed boost to keep up with traffic. Though as you point out, as long as I'm on something that resembles a bicycle I could be doing 100kph and every car would still feel the primal need to evertake me.
The only view I follow is this (as an american): 6-10 mph mph around pedestrians on sidewalks, 10-16 mph on sidewalks with no pedestrians and trails, 16 - 25 mph in bike lanes, 25+ mph in the streets riding with traffic. Never had an issue with cops doing this..
It’s quite tricky tbh. I’ve been on a road bike doing intervals on the way home trying to get the speedometer over 40 mph on a bike lane next to a dual carriageway and had a random person jump out of a bush was so sketchy, didn’t realise bike lanes are only designed to be ridden on at less than 16 mph. Bicycle helmets are only designed to work up to 12 mph. So they’d need to stipulate a different helmet. I’m so glad you mentioned the pavement thing there are shared paths which are gravel if you’re doing 25 on a heavy ebike I don’t think people could control it without a throttle . There’s actually too many things to list to why they shouldn’t put it past 15.
My e scooter does 40mph in uk never ever been stopped or even questioned. If anything people are curious at how fast they can be pushed too. Scotland btw not a city.
20 - 25 mph is adequate, live in S London and downhill on an L20 on level 3 assist can easily overtake a bus where there's no bike lane, on the flat / uphill even on greater "assist" am right on it's tail ... infuriating
I think you need to keep in mind that e-bikes are allowed on shared use paths and 15.5mph is probably good for a lot of those but for roads 15.5mph is a pain even when the speed limit is just 20mph. Call me undecided because it's not simple, like if you had a switch to switch from 15.5mph to 19mph, lets be honest - nobody would ever switch back to 15.5mph.
Who says you can't go faster than 15.5 mph on an e-bike? You can go 150 mph on that as well - if you can do that without the motor. Ebikes may be ridden on the bike path because they are not classed as a motor vehicle, even though they have a motor. It is a concession. The speed limit is there to keep cyclists safe on their protected infrastructure - protected from MOTOR VEHICLES, which, as an exception, you're not classed as. There is no right to be propelled by a motor on a bike path, you're *granted* a *privilege* to do so, provided the motor doesn't propel you to dangerous speeds. I am, frankly, quite annoyed by the entitlement of Ebikers who demand the whole arm after having been graciously granted a little finger. You want to ride your Ebike faster than 15.5mph? You absolutely can! But then it's not a bicycle any more, it's a motor vehicle, like a scooter or a motorbike. That means you need licence plates, insurance, you're obliged to wear a helmet, and you may not ride on bike paths. We have a couple of d***heads around here who ride unrestricted illegal Ebikes on bike paths. They are terrifying. Heavy, bulky things, often kitted out with lot of stuff like phones or tablets on handlebars, large panniers or bags, blindingly bright lights. They are at least as heavy as a scooter, run on huge, noisy and slow MTB tyres, the riders sit bolt upright and pass a (pretty quick) road cyclist like me as if it were nothing. If something similar were allowed on the bike paths, even with 20mph, what's the point of a bike path? You can just as well ride in traffic.
The law should be: · 1kW motor (or 500W + 500W front and rear, or any balance people want) · 30MPH limit · Twist 'n' Go allowed up to 30MPH · New category created for "e-Bike", as opposed to "MOPED" Simple as, but governments want total control over our private travel, eventually removing our right to private travel completely, so they can get everyone on subscription schemes run by government and corporations. This is to limit how far we're allowed to go, using "carbon footprint" limitations as a means of control.
Would there be any requirements? Insurance or training? And are they still allowed in parks etc? And if it goes the same speed as a moped what's the difference?
@@e-VRC i agree - this without training/experience will be deadly (like for some teenagers in Wales, running from police) Rules should stay same for people under 21 year old over this - 20MPH/500W limit and 28MPH/750W with any full licence (can be moped, bike or car licence) insurance - optional ;)
@@stanley3647 this would be a good approach, except bump it up to 30 for the last level, 28 still invites the overtake but at 30 you could reasonably sit in the middle of the lane and when a driver behind realises you're doing 30 most would just follow like they would any other vehicle doing the speed limit
You are stupendously wrong with with the point regarding speed. You argue against yourself by citing safety for the current 15.5 mph speed cap. Regardless, try going round a large roundabout without assistance, or whacking your inner pedal on the tarmac. That's bloody dangerous. If you are prevented from going with the flow of traffic, you are in danger. 20mph and 30mph should be the norm. It's statistically safer for every road user. Government statistics demonstrate this. Those with an infirmity are prejudiced by current legislation. Need I go on?
Please cite your source. The Department for Transport says (about all accidents involving bicycles) 'The factors are largely subjective, reflecting the opinion of the reporting police officer, and are not neccessarily the result of extensive investigation'. So if you happen to have more accurate information about keeping up with traffic I'd be delighted to read it, if you'd be so kind.
@@pd4165PetitionIncrease the maximum assisted speed for e-bikes from 15.5 mph to 20 mph We want the Government to increase permissible maximum assisted speed for e-bikes to 20 mph. The current limit of 15.5 mph (25 kmph) is restrictive compared to those set in some other countries, including the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Brazil.
A throttle is actually legal up to 15.5 mph, if it only works when your turning the pedals. On mine, you don't have to apply any force to them as just windmilling them around is good enough. Re cable operated disk brakes, the limiting factor is normally the grip between the tyre and the road. I can't see the minor increase in speed needing upgraded brakes. Re speed limit I would prefer 20 mph, which would make it easier to keep up with non-assisted bikes (at the moment I tend to go faster uphill, slower on the level bits).
I agree with all your opinions on these matters. It'sbasically what I would have said; however, there are a couple of general misconceptions I'd like to comment on: Firstly, throttles are allowed and are not restricted to 6 km/hr. The rule is that the power must stop when you stop pedalling unless you're speed is less than 6km/hr. In other words, the throttle can be used as a speed or power regulator, which is much easier than pushing buttons on an LCD. The government says "twist and go" is not allowed, meaning power without pedalling is not allowed. Some controllers (KT brand) have settings, where the throttle will give independent power up to 6km/hr, then continue as a speed regulator up to 25km/hr as long as you turn the pedals. Secondly, there is no 250w power limit. The law says that you cannot use a motor "rated" at more than 250w. When an engineer does a rating, they might typically use a safety factor of 3 or 4 times, but there is no rule or regulation about how they do their rating, especially when they have to consider every type of niche use and abuse of their motor. In other words, a motor that can produce a maximum output power of say 2kw, could be and has been rated at 250w by the manufacturer and is perfectly legal to use in a UK ebike without licence and registration.
I've done a bit over 4k on an ebike and to be honest the speed assist limit doesn't bother me considering you can use them anywhere a normal bike is allowed
I think it depends on the rider experience and road awareness along with the bike capabilities i.e decent brakes. Also a CBT or motorbike license could be required for over 15mph...
No special licensing, governments already reach too far into our personal space. Truthfully, the license laws they have are really more about revenues for government than they are for safety.
25mph out of towns and so on, 15.5 is fine in those areas (crowded, congested) and i agree some sort of test just to make sure were safer for a bit more powerful bike, i wouldnty mind paying 50 bucks to be able to ride a 750wat bike legally
250 Watts is totally inadequate where I live. The area is known as Mini Switzerland so uphill speeds of 4 mph are hard and downhill 40mph is a breeze until it comes to stopping. Nirvana would be 15.5mph uphill and downdale.
I've maxed my ebike out at 48mph so far - thanks to gravity (naughty gravity). The 2-pot disk brakes work fine, but yeah, I'd prefer 4-pot if I were riding that fast and having to brake hard more often. I do weigh 100 kilos. Up lesser gradients I might sustain 15mph, and on steeper hills with the motor turned up I hover around the 10mph mark. On the flat, without a headwind, I tend to cruise at just over 20mph, I often get passed by racers on non-assisted bikes. Now, I could turn my assist up to max and go faster, but I choose not to, just like cars can be driven at far above the speed limit if their drivers choose to. When I'm on a shared track with pedestrians I adjust my speed down to compensate, and I work on a hard rule that pedestrians have priority. I'm not in a race, and I can adjust my speed to suit conditions according to my onboard computer - my brain. I despise the ebike laws. They have been designed by lazy-minded people to cover the extremes of possibility, and those of us who are sensible are just collateral damage caught-up in the mindless moral panic of zealots, and the ignorance of the riders who wouldn't care about others whatever they are riding. As to accommodating arrogant car drivers who demand they must do at least the speed limit all of the time - they're the ones with a problem that needs to be corrected. The ebike laws are an ass. Restrict motors to 250W okay, but don't single out ebikes for special laws that restrict them to performing below that easily achieved by analogue bikes! Speed is speed, whether it comes from leg-power alone, or a combination of leg-power and a little electric motor.
I'm a disabled man, when i was in my teens and early 20s i was a competitive cyclist. Unfortunately after having sepsis i developed a autoimmune condition that attacks my nerves. I would love to get back on two wheels but i can barely walk. I would love to have a ebike that could be powered without pedaling... Also i think 20mph should be the speed limit, one, that's the speed of traffic in towns and such. Two, makes the bike a fair mode of transportation. And three most people could achieve that speed with little training
Sorry to hear about your condition, I have a friend who has a disability which prevents him from pedalling but he has now got an ebike that uses a throttle to propel him, he loves it , it's not very fast at around 18mph on the flat but perfectly adequate, perhaps u could do the same to get u out on a bike, I know it's technically against the law but in reality no one cares and won't bother u 👍
Hi, There is a company that makes electric tricycles, which you can specify as a full moped classification with Reg if you wish, which are fully DVLA registered and can ridden completely on throttle only. Alternatively, if you want to ride entirely without pedalling on 2 wheeled electric vehicle, what you are actually describing is an electric moped and many, many of these exist already, so you just have to simply buy one to satisfy your need/requirement and your away. Hope this helps as I am certain that you didn’t know what you are asking for actually exists already or you where simply searching for some way to side step existing moped/rMoped legislation. Kindest Regards, Ben VPN, City-Desk.
As a regular ebiker i have no problem with the speed limit as it is right now, what gets my goat is the cost of batteries and the difficulties involved in upgrading your existing battery. I get plenty of power from my motor it even allows me to tow a sometimes heavy trailer so no complaints there, what i most desire is extra range but the cost of a new battery is prohibitive. 7:45
Should faster vehicles including ebikes have more and better safety features at the speed increases. In the US more ebikes are coming with rear brake-lights and and turn-signals , At higher speeds should front turn signals and mirrors be required, say 28 to 32mph. Go faster and you have to met stricter requirements. In most states in the US you come under that states motor vehicle laws at speeds over 28 MPH.
There is something to be said with being able to flow with the traffic. When you are slower than the traffic, relatively speaking, you & the traffic behind you are moving towards each other.
I spend 2 years with moped limited to 28MPH (45kph) and every driver wanna overtake me like no tommorow. Now with 125cc bike i riding 33-35 MPH because if I stick to limit - 30 - still some drivers tailgating and overtaking. Till next traffic light when I go ahead ;) Mentality of drivers are need to be change. Should be USA-style law - Class 1, 2 and 3 ebikes with minor changes: 1 for everyone (like now) 2 for 18+ or 21+ 3 for any driving licence holder
I think you hit the nail on the head, hence the lower speed of 15mph...so not to interfere with the 20 mph zones being brought in across the UK. Good video, thanks AI
..but what if you un-restrict it and only want to go up to 20mph for short stretches of say 400 metres? I use power for only about half of each trip - what about you? Paul G
the pedal assist limit is almost impossible to police, since an ebike can be pedaled to higher speeds or going downhill. Using a classification system like in America makes sense. we could maybe.. class 1 up to 15.5mph can use cycle lanes. class 2 up to 20mph using roads hi vis clothing plus helmet class 3 up to 30mph CBT training, insurance, hi vis, helmet class4 above 40mph same requirement as motorbike MOT tax etc bike classification I dont think there should a pedal assist requirement, so the classification should include scooters which should have a minimum wheel size of say 8" for stability. A bike without pedals in class 1 and 2 would be safer since the rider would not be able to exceed the motor limit by pedaling.
I’d say 15.5mph is fine for e-bikes. Averaging that on a normal bike isn’t that easy, so it’s faster than most can ride a normal bike. Totally agree that some sort of licensing would be good for faster/more powerful bikes, but the bikes themselves have to be up to it, especially the brakes. But then you come to the road worthiness of the bikes, they may be fine when new but who’s going to check they are ok a couple of years down the line. Only needs someone wiping out a kid on a crossing at 30mph because their brakes don’t work, and we’ll have to (quite rightly) have mot’s for the bikes. There’s a lot more involved by going a few miles an hour faster.
I like my 250W bike which is unrestricted, so doesn't cut off at 15.5mph. If it did I would be doing 95% of the journey with no assistance, because I'm not going to want to cruise at only 15.5mph on any bike. The assistance at higher speeds is far less noticable than at lower speeds anyway, and is really just taking the edge off it, and making me want to get out and cycle more
It depends on the roads, if you are driving on a 30 mph road you will want to over take a bike doing 15 or 25 mph, but if you are going 20 in a 20 zone then why would you want to overtake and get a ticket. The cyclist wouldn't get a ticket so you would sit back and keep your license safe, but if you are going 15 on a bike and the zone is 20 you will want to overtake. However on a 60 mph road the only thing that would satisfy a car driver would be if the bike did 80 mph so clearly no winner there. I've had the same issue with a motorcycle, on a fast road you do the speed limit and cars feel the need to overtake, even though they know they will be breaking the law and the bike you are riding has more than enough power to leave them standing with the twist of the throttle, they still feel the need to break the law, you can pull away from them to show them they are being stupid but it's an issue of the mentality of car drivers. Even in the city, you drive within the speed limit on a motorcycle or even in a small car, other car drivers feel the need to overtake even though they know they will be breaking the law, they get frustrated that someone is in front of them, it's mental conditioning, some cars you see them race to the lights and the bicycle sales through a red light, then the car drivers have a problem of the cyclist going through a red light, because they feel they must be in front, this happens to busses, cycles, motorcycles and small cars, in fact anything sticking to the legal limit.
Keeping up with traffic is the most important reason to up the speed limit, what if you're on a narrow road where cars can't easily overtake, if you're sitting at 15mph the cars behind a more likely to get frustrated and do something stupid, and we know who's going to lose that interaction. Where As if you're doing 25mph the cars behind a more likely to wait it out
25mph seems reasonable. I do that on my Eskateboard and on my bikes (downhill) easily. Primary danger on a bike/ebike is being hit by a car, not you crashing or falling off at speed. So the cars speed is much more important than yours, on a bike.
18mph that is the average speed I used to travel on a normal bike back in the day, so 18mph on ebike, after passing a test similar to scooter then upp allowable speed to 30mph. Also include age limit to faster speeds. The watt law is nonsense as most of us oldies use ebikes because of hills and higher watts is needed for hills. I like the ebike I have as it has several settings and I have found I use the higher settings for hills not for speed. nice vid cheers
The power law your mistaken on, it's not limited to 250w at all it's limited to 250w nominal, most store bought e bikes produce well over 600-700w if they didn't you wouldn't be able to get up most hills.
I think the limit should be increased to the speed that a physically fit rider of a non-electric bike would typically manage on a flat surface. So around 25-30 mph.
In Australia so same laws as the UK pretty sure, idk about mph but our limit is 25kmh 250w motor. I feel like 25kmh is just a bit too slow, and 30kmh is perfect. YES i like to go faster than 30kmh but 30 feels good. I have 2 bikes one is a 250w road legal ebike the other is a 1500w custom, and on the 1500w 30kmh feels pretty safe and is perfect to not disrupt traffic too much and also feels safer because of the same reason being you dont disrupt the flow of traffic as much which means calmer drivers making safer overtaking decisions
We have these dumb laws in Australia as well. Also if we ride on foot paths we are not allowed to go faster than 10 kph so it is safer for pedestrians on the footpath.
I think 19-20 mph would be just about enough my issue is that my bike doesn’t have gearing for me to go faster than that. It’s almost as if it is designed around that 15.5mph speed limit.
25mph on pedal assist, 20 on a quarter throttle...if you want to go 30+ mph, then take your CBT and get a motorcycle or moped. The hills here where I live are up to 25% incline and we need the torque for these hills.
It would be nice to have a 2 classification system: Category 1- 15.5mph 250w nominal (as existing) no license required Category 2- 25mph 750w nominal for existing driving licence holders There is clear legislation (existing) about this- you can ride a bike (ebike or moped) that will do 20-30mph if it is registered, taxed and you have the correct license. There has to be a lower motorised class distinction (the current 15.5mph) so that there is an option to for those that don’t want to gain a license and registration/insurance costs. I have a 250w legal ebike, a 1,450w 58v custom which has a road legal mode to get me to the off-road riding and a 80kw motorcycle for longer faster riding. My 250w ebike is great for getting in and out of town and is efficient enough to be pedalled at double the cut off motor speed. As a side note there aren’t any actual 250w e-bikes, that is the nominal continuous output at the 15.5mph cut of when not under any load- most 36v 250w e-bikes have a maximum power output of 630(ish)w- that’s 42v at 100% battery x 15amps output.
Good points well made. Faster and more power does make them into mopeds and these have rules. Maybe allowing them to be registered and licencing the rider is a solution. Obviously slow and low power gives freedom of where to ride and no licence needed. Mine is over 6years old so legally has a throttle. At 250w it is not speeding anywhere and needs pedalling up hills. Whatever speed I go, it beats walking and unassisted cycling, so I'm not complaining.
Because in a lot of situations cars don’t give you the same consideration as you think pedestrians should get. I ride on the road at 4am going to work but coming back I have been knocked off twice by inconsiderate motorists so I use the footpath.
Power should be unrestricted as peoples weight and mobility varies. Throttle should be allowed as sometimes is safer to use/concentrate on steering vs having to "go through the motions" of peddling even though you aren't actually putting pressure on the peddles. The max speed should be 20 mph so it aligns with the new 20 mph limits.
I’d prefer a class system like the US & Canada. Firstly raise the base allowed speed to 20mph and to 750w motors, then e-bikes begin to make sense for a lot more people. For anyone wanting to use a E-bike on public highways with a top speed of 25-29MPH then they’d have to pass a CBT 30mph - 40mph should be the max limit of an legal e-bike where the bike must have been registered with the DVLA via request form, CBT and a license with insurance, (specific to e-bikes) (no need for plates though) 40+ it should be treated similar to a moped if not just classed as one. I.e insurance, plates, licenses the full shebang
I am an experienced cyclist and motorcyclist but now have a disability that makes it hard to pedal any distance. An electric bike or scooter would be brilliant for me and probably many other disabled people. It would be essential to have a throttle though for people with limited mobility.
The motor doesn't "cut out" at the top speed. People should stop saying that. On my Class 2 ebike (in Canada it's typically 500 W, 32 kph max whether pedal-assisted or throttle) when I have pedal assist set to 4/4, and I approach 32 kph, the motor is still consuming 500 W, as indicated on the display. You can be pedalling faster, but the motor just doesn't contribute more than its maximum. Anything over 32 is up to you. Or the steepness of the hill descent.
@@e-VRC Nope, because the motor is still working at that top speed. If my car's engine "cuts out" on the highway, I'm hoping I can coast to a safe stop on the shoulder.
@@orthicon9 sorry I don't really know what you're trying to say. Ebike motors do cut out when they hit 15.5 (ISH). Unless they're configured to go faster. Above 15.5 we're moving along under our own pedal power. Once we go back below 15.5 the motor kicks in again. You can't pedal a car plus car motors don't cut out at certain speeds. Maybe you have an ebike that doesn't cut out and you think all ebikes are like yours?
@@e-VRC Car motors certainly do cut out (at any speed) if they run out of gas. My point was that if any motor "cuts out", it does not contribute any motive power towards keeping the vehicle going. Back to ebikes: we have a RadMini ST2 and a RadExpand 5. With both bikes, when you exceed the maximum speed (of 32 kph in our jurisdiction), whether pedalling with pedal assist or with the throttle, the display indicates that SOMETHING (presumably the hub motor) is still eating up 500 watts. When you back off the throttle a bit, or select a lower degree of pedal assist, it uses less power. At, say, minimum pedal assist they use about 65 watts. If you don't twist the throttle AND don't pedal (so that the cadence sensor "knows" you're not pedalling anymore), you're just coasting, using "0 W". Or partially squeeze either one of the brake handles, then the motor does indeed "cut out" even if you ARE still pedalling or twisting the throttle, and it shows as consuming "0 W" while you are coasting and slowing down. You said "Above 15.5 we're moving along under our own pedal power." It's not just that, it's our pedal power *plus* 500W of motor power. Or 250W, depending on where you are. Otherwise it would be like trying to pedal at 32 kph (or 15.5 kph) with the bike turned off completely by the keyswitch, or the battery sitting on a shelf back in the garage. Good training for a Triathlon, I suppose.
If they raise the limit to 20 mph, there be a lot of e bikes stuck on their fixed 15 mph bikes. To change it to 20 mph involves new legislation and parliament time also involves changing moped rules. So the people who would benefit are the ones who can alter the limit in their controller
The issue for me is riding on shared paths. Even then I slow right down to 10mph and below because of pedestrians and dogs and ring my bell to alert them. But then my primary reason for getting an ebike is exercise. We need more protected cycling infrastructure from traffic not more speed imo. Also could have more LTNs. But these are controversial. If you want to go faster than 20mph then get yourself a speed pedelec to overtake and keep up with traffic. But then you should only use them on roads and get them registered with DVLA etc. Edit: not mentioned in this video is the Government consultation of increasing e-bikes to 500w (still capped at 15.5mph) and throttle based bikes to 15.5mph. The consultation comes to an end on April 25. Have your say if you feel strongly enough.
My wife on her road bike rides consistently at around 17mph. My e-bike cannot do this speed, and I cannot therefore, keep up with her pedalling. I believe the 15 would be better replaced with 20. Any faster could be bad for the health in a collision.
You should try a class 3 mobility scooter on the road, restricted to 8mph everywhere else in the EU and most of the world is 15mph, a road legal scooter with lights indicators and restricted to 8mph is downright dangerous
We need ebikes to go 20mph top speed with a 500w 48v motors to get up the hills. 250w is never enough to get up hills efficiently and especially if you are an old or disabled rider. The UK government are a joke for limiting ebikes to 250w
I think the speed laws makes sense, mostly because of one factor - the users themselves. Ebikes have made it vastly more accessable to use your bike to commute, but that also brings more people into traffic using bikes. Using a bike at "high speed" in safe manners needs skill, and people who use normal bikes in those speeds usually has that skill since it's often their hobby. Giving "normal" people the opportunity to go fast on a bike, could definately highten the incident statistics by a lot, since people just aren't good enough or ready for that extra power. A solution for it, could simply be to introduce a driver's licence for Ebikes with a higher speed assistance, with proper training and sharpened regulation for use of protective equipment (like better helmets) since they then use sometging more similar to mopeds in terms of performance. But that requirement, I guess would upset people as well.
I expect ebikes should be down to the license you hold. If you have a full motorcycle license, you should be able to have a throttle and a speed limit which is in keeping with the road speed or capability of the bike purchased whereas someone who only has a driving license for a car will be less competent and should probably be limited to 20mph. I think the 15.5 speed limit is sensible for cycle tracks which are shared with pedestrians.
I would like to add something that does not get mentioned much in the "speed" debate, BRAKING! I ride a Crazybird JUmper and on the whole I love it however... I have some hills (not too much of a gradient) near me and when descending, just freewheeling the bike will very quickly get up to 20+ MPH. The Crazybird is a very heavy bike at at times I think the brakes have to work VERY hard to slow you down. 15MPH is plenty fast enough for me, I think if I was doing 20mph and had to stop quickly the brakes would not be up to it.
My bike is 15.5mph, with a 4mph walk assist on the throttle. I think 25mph is a good speed, yet below the 30mph 50cc moped speeds. Throttle assist is fine, except if for example you are registered physically disabled...when the throttle assist would get you home, if you are in pain. We're not in the EU, so they know what they can do with their rules. CbT type test, you might as well get a moped. I can get 35 TO 40mph with no assistance downhill on my Himiway Cruiser...because of the weight of the bike, myself and my bergen
Be sure to check out my other videos on ebike law:
Throttle law: ua-cam.com/video/YSSVDMgpgBM/v-deo.html
Power law: ua-cam.com/video/_SqhglS_SPw/v-deo.html
The drone that's filming me on the roads is the Hover X1 - a tiny automated drone that basically follows you around. My next video will be filmed exclusively by that drone!
Check them out here, they're amazing!
bit.ly/3rqL7gZ
Under rated channel.... Really is. I got advise from you ages ago about this, and I got one, a 750w fat bike and have worked doing deliveries ever since, seen by the police many times and no issue so I just ignore the dam BS law. I just got a 1000W bike that looks like a motorbike, hopefully that goes ok, cant see why it wont, all unlocked. If there is going to be a law, maybe a 1000w and up to 20 to 25mph, only on the road or paths for cycle paths.
Sorry I missed this. Glad you enjoy the channel. And glad your ebike journey is going well and in peace 😂👍
I'm living in America and here is...
- 20 mph for cycle lane
- 28 mph for Class III(PAS)
- 35 mph for Moped(upto)
In my opinion, 20~30 mph is just quite enough. In addition, our motor power is 750 W nominal, don't care about peak power. The speed limit could be different from each area, but my opinion is if the cycle lane is fully covered in the city, we do not need to run faster, but in some point we must share the line with other car and motorcycle in the downtown or some narrow area. And in this case, if we ride slow speed, I think both, me and other car are dangerous to each other. So, I personally choice speeding, go on a sidewalk(legal here) or slowdown and passing the car or far away from the car. (...and must check my radar detector first, when I'm speeding.)
Race bikes go faster than most e-bikes yet there is no law for them
@@toydigger It's about being able to control the vehicle and safety. Most people who complain about the E-bike speed limit being too slow actually want an E-motorbike; but don't want the legal responsibilities and cost associated with having license, insurance etc. Electrically assisted E-bikes are only meant to assist people in riding their bikes. They are not meant as a means to break the road laws. If you can't normally safely ride at speeds exceeding 15.5mph then why would an E-bike help you be more dangerous on the roads ? Race bike riders would normally gradually pick up speed when it's safe to do so; they don't just throttle to the highest speed possible.
E-motorbikes are meant for those who want an E-bike that can go faster than 15.5mph.
From personal experience and talking to local bike shops. The consensuses is that 18mph would be the ideal speed before the pedal assist stops. This is a very reasonable speed and a speed that is easily achievable on the flat by the average rider on a non powered bike. Even at that speed a razer blade on wheels will flash past me like I am standing still!!! 18mph is still a safe speed, having costed down a hill at 30mph I was aware that if something happened and I came off it was going to be very painful. I agree with your observation about the bike traveling at 25mph. As a professional driver and cyclist I can see both sides of the argument and I drive my waggon in a way that is respectful to all road users. The biggest frustration I have is the 250 watt restriction. What you have to consider is that as soon as you pass 15.5mph you are suddenly affected by the weight of the bike and maybe a little motor drag. On my Bosch powered Scott Aspect there is very little motor drag but its a 25Kg bike before you add items like penners and other accessories. I am maybe a little over weight at 100Kg but even on a medium to steep climb the motor is too weak to provide usable assistance even in 2nd gear. I suspect the motor is more than 250 watt as the bike is sold outside the EU and its unlikely that they do a different motor for different laws. They simply put a power restrictor on it for the EU market. But I could be wrong.
Yeah you’re right, yours is probably more like a 1000w being an expensive bike I’ve got a cheap C90 and that’s also sold all over but is advertised on Amazon as being 250w but it’s 750w and I get 35mph with quite a boost. Yours will only need a few quick clicks to unlock the top speed I would imagine, most of them are just restricted with the software rather than a wire so it’s easy enough. I’ve bought 250w stickers off eBay and put them on the motor and frame for if I get pulled but I wont be able to explain the twist throttle though.
My biggest problem is the motor and throttle laws, it’s ridiculous. One of the first videos I did on my channel a couple of months ago I stated I’d be happy with 15.5mph as long as I could have a 750w motor to get me there. I weigh 250lb.
On Saturday I rode nearly 50 miles on my Engwe Engine X in PAS 5 and rarely went above 16-17 mph unless it was downhill. (I’ve modified my Engine X to 50ah by the way)
I agree about the brakes … I have Magura MT5e’s on the front and 2 piston hydraulics on the rear. Mechanical brakes don’t cut it on the 20x4 fat e-bikes. Helmets and mirrors should be compulsory too as well as brake lights.
All that said … 20mph is a happy medium, get rid of that ridiculous throttle law (it’s dangerous) and help heavier riders with 750w motors. Let us be responsible for ourselves and stop throwing ebikers in the same category as 15 year olds in balaclavas riding on the pavements two up at 50mph.
Bang on. Totally agree with everything you said 👍
I'm an adult capable of making my own decisions, and of taking my own acceptable level of risk.
Therefore, no requirement imposing helmet or mirrors is acceptable.
If YOU want those things no one is preventing you from having them.
@@rayrussell6258 well done you. And when you finally have an accident and you get you head caved in let me know how the replacement brain operation went.
@@ModProjects4306 I'm close to 70 and I've been riding bikes for 60 years, no mirrors or helmet, I can turn my head and look around just fine; it's foolish to not LIVE LIFE, because you worry about the sky falling all the time and can't enjoy anything.
Sorry you are so sad ModProj, and think it's your job to tell others how to live their life; it must be miserable being you.
Apparently the shop bought 250w as we know it are actually 500w, this was revealed by an ex engineer of bosch
Couple of things touched on in the video 1. throttle should be able to propel the bicycle up to its regulated speed can’t see why this is a problem 2. the maximum speed under assistance should be 20 mph which not only brings us in line with other European Countries but coupled with the throttle would enable the ( more mature) rider to navigate normal road gradients without having to keep peddling like mad to get up the gradient.
it is possible to make throttle legal, but they need special approval
ua-cam.com/video/QAwJUePQJQ4/v-deo.html
Which countries in Europe allow 20mph on e-bikes without registration etc? I thought the 15.5mph was because of EU laws?
@@badabing8884 yes 25 km/h or 15.5 mph is the standard in Europe, however I think they should allow more power, with drivers license, to maintain speed uphills.
Possibly keep the cutoff speed at 25 km/h
Possibly only 250 W at startup, but allow more power to accelerate and maintain 25 km/h.
@@badabing8884
I think it's only the US is 20 mph
15.5 MPH is the EU e-bike equivalent to 25 KPH e-bike laws adopted by the UK are all EU laws.
I think that after many years of cycling and being able to easily achieve 17 mph +, that e bikes should be able to do 20mph to keep up with the flow of traffic better
US e-biker here, Speed is completely based on location. 30mph is dangerous on a sidewalk, a busy city, or a crowded road. but if you are headed down an open highway you spend less time in the way of traffic if you can. Car traffic will be less angry on someone going 30mph, than going 10mph and blocking them. Naturally, there will be more accidents and deaths, it's a new thing and the hobby exploded faster than pickleball. My e-bike can go 50+ and I have hit those speeds to merge with traffic for short distances so I'm not stopping the flow and going back to the shoulder when it's safe. It's simply safer for me to travel at highway speeds than it is for me to go 12mph on a canyon road holding back traffic and forcing cars to go into oncoming traffic to pass.
Indeed.. Your roads and sidewalks are very different to ours.. Ours are small and unkempt. Many need work. Still our laws are ridiculous.
Can see at some point e-bikes will have to be registered and insured because of the immature ridders, it is coming
20 miles is still break your bone
40 milles crash can kill you
I hear what you're saying about motorists having an irresistible urge to overtake a bike (electric or otherwise). However, rather than bowing to a human feeling, surely we should be focussing more on educating motorists (including ourselves) that the roads are a shared resource. In the interests of respect and safety, we should be promoting tolerance and and a bit of empathy. This works both ways, of course - As e-bikers, we also have a responsibility to behave safely and respect other road users. It all comes down to a bit of give and take and showing some self control. Personally I think powered assist to 20mph is a reasonable compromise between safety and encouraging folks to see the bike as a viable alternative to the car for shorter trips. Always entertaining videos - keep 'em coming! 🙂
I’m literally 25 years old and have been driving since 17 and I have steadily seen motorists get stupider and less patient each year…I think education is the way but I think to many people just don’t care sadly.
i think the education should be to the cyclists rather than the drivers. I do both, drive and cycle and i see more arrogance and disrespect from cyclists that car drivers. Yes there a right pigs out there driving, but if you were to put a ratio on drivers and cyclists, you would find every twenty car drivers there's at least one pig. But on the other hand with cyclists out of 20 there would be 19 pigs.
If we are able to maintain a speed of 20 mph, although still slower than other road users, we enjoy the advantage of easily stopping, allowing them to pass and then resuming our journey without the significant energy expenditure required of traditional cyclists.
Moreover, it is crucial to embrace initiatives similar to those in Denmark, where dedicated cycle routes not only connect towns by cutting across the countryside but also require regular road sweeping to ensure debris-free paths, enhancing safety for cyclists.
That would never happen here, as the road sweepers barely clean the normal roads.
It's definitely nice having the ability to keep with traffic depending on the road and situation. However, in the past few months I've also realized that it's often easier to ride slower than traffic. Here in the USA, even if I am on a Class 3 bike doing 28mph in a 25mph zone, it's still stuck in every driver's mind "I NEED to pass the bike" leading to an even angrier driver. Cruising at less than the speed limit does seem to cause less headaches. Likewise, on the trails I often putt with the motor off or low assist levels and never touch the throttle. I know from experience as a pedestrian that bicycles, assisted or not, just love to whiz by without warning so I always keep a bell on my bike to alert people. I often get thanked for ringing and calling out. It's important to keep the public's view of E-Bikes positive.
Totally agree... oh hey I've seen your videos. Love what you do with a 3d printer 👍👍
Ive had aggressive road rage today from and idiot in a big mercedes
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I was following a truck in a big line of traffic at 20 - 30 mph for half a mile
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Then all of a sudden he accelerated along side me shouting and swearing cus he obviously didnt like following a bike
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He went absolutely nuts at me for just following traffic then slammed his brakes on
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I just went onto the footpath and turned off cus hes obviously got serious mental health problems 🤪
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In 2000 miles ive only had 3 raging drivers go mad at me because im following traffic
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I guess for some people, when they are bejng held up by traffic, theyve got to blaim the cyclist rather than the 10 vehicles im following 🙄🤦♂️
EDIT..... IN A 30MPH ZONE
@goldenegg1063 sorry you had to put up with this. Some people are idiots sadly. Tables turned he'd be raging at all the cars.
@e-VRC lol yes.... when he sped in front then slammed his brakes on,
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Thats when i took the pavement and just turned into a housing estate to take the long but quiet route back
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I left him there all angry and fighty after hed just took his seatbelt off and opened the door
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The 10+ cars behind would of seen it all and got annoyed at him for stopping on a steap hill
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The best bit is just up the road is more traffic lights and more roadworks just after 😅
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He must of sat there for ages looking like a right T##T,
with all those people behind him blaiming him for missing the green light at the top and holding THEM up 😅
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Ahhhhhh Instant KARMA
As a non-ebike cyclist, I'm often at around 25mph in 30 limits. As recommended in the Highway Code, if I don't feel it's safe for motorists to overtake, I'll adopt prime position well out in the lane so they simply cannot overtake without using the other lane.
Too many cyclists ride in the gutter which encourages unsafe, even illegal, overtakes
Yup I ride my skateboard like that. It’s my lane now deal with it. Drivers can take it up with the people who open their doors without looking and drive too close when I do leave space
I have no issues on a bicycle or a recumbent trike. I ride in a similar fashion to yourself. Due to my training as an Advanced Rider and Driver though , I beleive has made me a very safe cyclist.
Precisely. And riding in the gutter is in itself a hazard - having to avoid deep drains, pot-holes etc, with little room for maneuver when vehicles are overtaking you. Drivers don't always give you the required distance when passing, so we're often forced to ride tight to the kerb.
In the US the law for cyclist is ride as far to the right as is safe and cars must pass with a minimum of 3 feet, and your well out in the lane is just your ego and will get you hurt or worse.
@@ohwell2790Sort of- it’s actually similar to the UK in that you take more of the lane if it’s not wide enough, primary position. An extract from the USA rules and regulations for cyclists:
Lane Positioning
Bikes can share the same lane with other drivers. If a lane is wide enough to share with another vehicle (about 14 feet), ride three feet to the right of traffic. If the lane is not wide enough to share, “take the lane” by riding in the middle.
I feel like if you are over a certain age u should be able to go 30mph, u can now but registering an Ebike as a moped is so impossible. But I also believe an Ebike should be able to have any power and speed but we need to ride at speed limits. Just because then we the people can use the ebike for commuting to work at 15-30mph or able to play around off road with the higher wattages
Man that sucks that the laws are so Draconian there in Europe. I’m in the middle of building a dual 3.5kw, 72v on a tiny Swagtron EB5 i scored that was non working for about 30 quid. I’m of course in rural, central Florida where no one is really paying attention to e-bikes or high powered scooters. A guy about 10lm from here built an 8kw mtn bike that has gone 86mph. I have not met a single person here in the USA that has an ebike or scooter speed limited to what the laws state. Even my daily commuter Swagtron EB7 with only a 350w motor, dual batteries, & controller shunt mod increased top speed from 15.6mph to 28.7. Add in the 69t front chainring and I can pedal it to 32mph. Granted this part of Florida is low population so it’s more or less animals you have to worry about hitting as almost no one walks here, especially when summers can exceed 40C in temps. We also do not have the scooter restrictions here either. I have an Evolv Sprint that will get a dual 1kw motor upgrade from the stock 36v 400w single motor setup. I wish you guys luck over there with those laws. Over here, California, NYC, and other liberal run areas are attempting to follow EU laws, but the rest of the country here is still wide open on things. We don’t even require smog or auto inspections here in Florida. So, for now, we get to enjoy a bit more freedom than most places. I’m going to create a new channel showcasing my builds very soon. Cheers from Sebring, FL!!
I'd like to weigh in here. I'm in America and my State's e-bike laws are 750w and 20mph. I'm currently riding the Jasion EB3. I find that on that small bike 12 mph is enjoyable AND safer to control. The faster I go the harder it is to control. 7mph is also enjoyable but there's less stability and a lot of handlebars jerking to keep straight. I'm assuming that on a larger bike the 20mph would be more satisfying and easier to control. With the EB3 I can barely go one-handed let alone hands free. On my 26" regular mountain bike I can go hands free at 7-8mph and the faster I go the easier it becomes to stay hands free even rounding corners. That's impossible with the EB3.
You're correct that while driving the instinct is to overtake the rider. Before my State's bike laws included or differentiated internal combustion from electric bikes I was able to go 40mph on my diy 2-stroke conversion bike. Whenever I'd be riding in a 35mph zone at 35-36mph cars would ALWAYS speed up and pass me exceeding the posted speed limit to do so. "Nevermind the law, I absolutely require of myself to break the speed law and illegally pass this puny bicycle" 😢 People see a bicycle and have the insatiable desire to pass it. 🤷
Now that the law has been updated it's better because they can pass me much safer than before.
i think there should be NO rules....only a law against dangerous driving on an e bike...pavement riding.etc.
Where I live in South Australia thats how it is , the police have more important things to worry about than ebike riders !
Humans are stupid, you need speed limits.
That is a ridiculous and irresponsible statement I have heard for a long time most cyclists do not show common sense let alone obey laws. Your idea would end in carnage.
@@stephenhill8675no, what is ridiculous is punishing the equipment and not the operators. Objects don’t commit crime people do. Education, etiquette, and general safety rules make more common sense than restricting the equipment. A dangerous and rude rider on a 250kw bike with no throttle is still a dangerous and rude rider while the polite and safe one is no problem than with a more powerful bike.
I live in an area where responsible people act responsibly and dickheads ride multi-KW 'bikes' causing absolute mayhem.
It's completely lawless - the cops aren't allowed to give chase and every dickhead knows this so is encouraged to buy a high powered e-bike (not even pedal bikes, but unregistered electric motorbikes) because there's no way to catch them.
This results in teens riding on congested roads at 60MPH and not even slowing for red lights.
Untill we have policing that can catch lawbreakers then the only way to have any semblance of reasonable riding is to regulate what is available to ride.
I'd be happy with 20mph, it's the speed limit in most town centres and residential areas. If I'm in my car following another vehicle (bicycles included!) doing 25, I'm not going to try to overtake, and I'm quite impatient.
I think the problem is if you de-restrict them too much you get idiots riding them like nutters on pavements etc, and it just ruins it for everybody else.
Then those riding like idiots should be penalised; not everyone.
@@trydowave Isn't that what speed limits are for car drivers? I'm an advanced driver and could drive around town at much higher speed than 95% of other drivers but I'm penalised into driving more slowly due to the lack of competence of other drivers.
So we have laws restricting everyone because it must be made reasonable for the majority.
I wish we had more freedom in this country it wouldn't surprise me if ebikes were banned , we can't have any fun these days.
I wouldn't be surprised if private ebikes were banned by hired ones were legal, as with scooters, you see the rich who make the laws can buy shares in the hire companies before passing the law
I personally think that 25km per hour seems to be a good speed to ride on open roads
Too slow. I can run faster than that and I'm not even young.
I agree with a lot of the other commenters here, 20 MPH.
I'm not sure I can pedal my Engwe EP-2 Pro any faster anyway thanks to the damn fat tyres. It's so heavy that I'm starting to regret buying it instead of say the C-20 Pro. I'm even thinking of swapping the tyres out for semi slicks like the Kenda Kraze or the CST range.
Fatbikes love to EAT batteries . They are very inefficient, only good in the sand or snow...
The necessity to limit the speed to something comparable to normal bicycles is one factor. It affects blake-types, illuminatioon required, hemet-type etc. , the 2nd factor is that average speed increases will rapidly reduce the survivability and types and severity of injuries.
Advantage of the 25Km limit is that we will be talking about bicycles with an added motor to help with hills etc. rather than about mopeds that have pedals to camouflage that they are not realistically comparable to bicycles and require better brakes, lighting, helmets etc.
Personally, I'd prefer the limit to be raise to 18-20 mph. But I can live with 15.5
i mean falling of at 2 miles hour is enough to do alot damage, I know from experience I have long lasting damage in my wrist now, ebikew throw you down
My argument about 250 watts is that I live in a hilly area, and 250 watts doesn't have the power to get the bike up steep hills, so it's like a hill tax, for me sudden de-acceleration can be dangerous if a car is close behind you, which happens a lot
exactly,, and doing a hill start on a stationary ebike with the extra weight of the motor and battery is sometimes impossible for older people
I’m really glad that I live in the states! Theoretically, 28 mph is the law, many ebikes go faster! They just have to be unlocked. We have e-bikes that go 40 mph! But, unlike Europe, we have empty sidewalks and streets. People DON’T walk here! Something that probably contributes to our obesity!
At least you got the choice.
@ Amen 🙏! God bless the USA 🇺🇸
The main thing when riding any kind of bicycle is to be alert to your surroundings and follow the rules of the road,traffic rules and the highway code. This also applies to any vehicle on the road ,whether it's a normal non-electic bike or a HGV.
Also, I’ve got to add to this. A blanket figure, such as 19mph is also wrong. Uber/lime bikes can alter the speed limit of their bikes according to zones. 10mph in a park and 19mph on a road would, I feel, be much more safe for everyone.
In the USA there are many people who use 750w ebikes who would have a heart attack if they had to use pedal power alone.
A lot of recent imported e-bikes are actually mechanically very safe…they have sturdy frames, fat tyres designed to provide high grip even on loose materials and hydraulic disc brakes which are very effective. Some like the Cyrusher Kommoda now include a built in rear light and brake light. In cycle terms these machines are over engineered. As such the cycle is perfectly safe to operate at 30mph and probably 10mph more than that! The PROBLEM is the competence and care of the rider. Kids and young adults with no formal road craft training are the ones doing 90% of the inconsiderate, unsafe and illegal riding….They just don’t give a fig, until they are hit by a vehicle or run into a person. Not all young riders are unsafe or reckless, but the ones that are, bring scorn and draconian regulation down upon us all. I believe we need two or three tiers of ebike regs. T1: All ages may operate an electric vehicle upto 4 mph including on most otherwise pedestrian areas. T2: E bikes/trikes/ scooters and mono wheels for 18+ year olds limited to 20 mph subject to passing a mandatory basic road safety and awareness course. T3: E bikes/trikes/scooters (probably not mono wheels) upto 30 mph IF a full car/motorcycle/truck licence has been passed to validate knowledge of Roadcraft and theory elements.
What we do not need…is more draconian, authoritarian police state control under the false guise of “safety”.
What we DO need is a firmer application of existing road law to riders who ignore the rules and safe riding practice.
Personally i would like the speed limit to be 25-30mph
@SB-dg8hq true, however even the 50-125cc can and do get derestricted to travel above the regulations
@@davidwhitworth4577But that doesn’t make you RIGHT, does it?
Get a moped then.
@@colincampbell4261 go play in traffic
I have bought a Eskuta sx-250 series iii. Thanks for your encouragement from your videos. I find where I live is hilly, uphill downhill. I moved from a flat area you could go anywhere on my mountain bike. But I moved two years ago to a hiilly area.
Back to speed question. It would be nice to have a speed of 20mph. Because every car and lorry are trying to pass me. I feel that at 20mph I might not be such a hinderence. The brakes on the sx-250 series iii are disk brakes. Which stop very good. I hope that my feedback helps. All the best Ron from South Derbyshire.
I loved the Eskuta but I did wish with pedalling you could get it to about 20. I did sneakily derestrict it for a bit but the battery ran down fast.
How are you finding the eskuta does up hills? I was fairly impressed and it's good that you CAN help by pedalling when going up hill.
I have had a de regulated e bike for 5 years.The extra acceleration and speed has saved me from a lot of bad situations from following and overtaking cars.
the UK has some of the most ridiculous rules on ebikes, segways, scooters etc when compared with the rest of the world. so how come when I was 12 years old on an Eddie Mercs 12 speed drop handlebar pedal cycle I could easily do 30 mikes an hour down a great Lancashire hill with a wind behind me and no legal implications what so ever and now on an ADO A16 I have to restrict it's potential to just 4 miles and hour - and remove the throttle to replace with a thumb switch - and only am allowed 15 mikes an hour in assist mode? crazy crazy crazy. having said all that I had the ADO for a week, rode it four time and came off, why? because the suspension made it chatter rather than stop when brakes applied, the dry weight made it impossible to side skid to a stop and the turning circle with such narrow handle bars made it just about miss a parked car. and that was set at full throttle mode 10 miles an hour. that's' all 4 years ago and I dare say the new Ado carbon is a nod in the right direction. ditch the rules let cheap, easy, green transport flourish.
20mph should be the limit, 15.5 is a bit silly, and its probably the average speed of an 80yo cyclist whos never been on a bike before, most cyclists average well over 20mph on the flat on non e-bikes.
that said my average ride speed is 22 mph on my heavier E-bike, but i do live in an exceptionally hilly area hence having an e-bike, up steep hills its 14mph with full assistance, a higher speed limit wont change my top speed at all because 250watt, (although we know its not 250w) isnt enough to go faster.
but 20 mph limit, unrestricted motor size... if it got more people out of their cars and cycling isnt that the whole point??
Complete deristriction of ebikes for anyone with a full motorcycle license, like me who's been riding motorbikes since the mid 1970s & have ridden in excess of 200mph
For anyone without a full bike license keep ebikes restricted without training, up the speed to about 30mph with CBT training & no limit for having a full bike license
Make the CBT course & test fairly difficult with a similar criteria as motorcycle training with parts 1, 2 & 3, highway code, training centre & road riding evaluation
My Bafang does 45 in power 5 mode but is legal in power 1. I use power 1 around towns/built up areas and higher powers on the open road. Have been passsed in both directions by the police at 30 + and as it is a pedal assist set up and I'm pedalling, they dont bat an eyelid. I like the idea of having to gain training certification to ride higher power bikes, but there should be an unrestricted upper limit for category 3 or whatever the label.
As far as I'm concerned when you take into account traffic that an e-bike rider can be in, not even on the highways that is, where occasionally the flow can be at 35-40 MPH, I don't see any valid enough reason not to allow that. It's safer for the riders, and the automobile drivers aren't being as tempted to make unsafe passes on a single lane with opposing traffic for him. Here the official limit on a Class III e-bike is 28MPH was translates to power assist up to 31-32MPH. Admittedly it's not that often to be in that traffic flow, but it does happen. I hate being squeezed in that situation.
Ebike current legislation
I have been considering the issues you raised in your videos regards ebike current legislation.
The issues are far more complex and far reaching than just speed, power , throttle ,etc.
You touch on some of the fundamental problems associated with electrical assisted bikes which also apply to scooters.
I believe a complete review of the law is long overdue.
This review should not only encompass speed, power output, throttle usage but include the following:
Vehicle road suitability ( maintenance and possible test by approved test engineer)
Vehicle classification
Rider road training and competence (CBT)
Possible vehicle insurance
Possible registration
At present no support structure exists to even maintain electric bikes or scooters to safe road suitability.
There is no requirement for riders to be road competent.
It's almost impossible to register an ebike currently with the DVLA (if you so desired)
I see the main requirements as follows:
1. Vehicle to be road worthy and compliant to new regulations
2. Driver competent to use said vehicle
3 Driver to comply with the highway code regulations.
Speed, power output, throttle usage would be irrelevant if
Items (1-3) are adhered to.
I am am a 68 year old disabled driver who has ridden ebikes since their first introduction years ago and l ride them for health reasons as well as for fun.
I am currently deliberately breaking the law by riding a powerful ebike with a 750 w motor derestricted with a throttle fitted because I need to overcome the inertia of a heavy bike with a pedal assist system that requires me to turn the crank several times before the motor engages which because of my disability and weight I find difficult.
I am allowed to modify my motor vehicle to accommodate my disability so I do the same with my ebike even if I am breaking the law for the first time in my half century of driving.
I have a full driving licence and have been driving cars, motorcycles etc. For over 50 years and hold a current CBT motorcycle license.
My observations are based upon my experience gained during this time.
And I feel It's not so much the vehicle or power that is dangerous but incompetent drivers using unroadworthy vehicles not complying to the current legislation as other road users have to.
I personally would be willing to undergo some form of ebike CBT if it existed
Have my bike maintained serviced and tested by competently trained cycle engineers if they existed.
Insure my bike if proper insurance schemes were available.
Obviously my comments are controversial but not only the law but the complete support structure regarding electrically assisted vehicles need to be addressed by concerned and informed parties and not just some uninformed unelected committee of politically motivated MPs .
I have a 250w Jorvik electric mountain trike which weighs 50+kgs, plus tools, etc. I weigh about 85kgs. It does have a "throttle" but this will only power the trike to walking speed, on level ground.
On even the gentlest slope, a hill start is very difficult, if not impossible. 250w is not nearly enough power to pull away safely uphill at a busy road junction. If there is loose gravel, it's even worse.
I do not have a real problem with the max powered speed. At 74, 15.5 mph is quite fast enough for me, but 20mph would be better.
I would be happy with 20mph, i can do that on a bicycle but its some more power thats needed, Some places like where i live are very hilly & its a stuggle to move at a sensible speed because of that.
The 15.5mph is fine with me, the bike has helped me improve my health. Saw a video recently where a UK supplier took bikes that they’d assembled to the Government to be tested and allowed to use a throttle up to the permitted speed, each bike needed testing individually for approval.
I agree , my 250 watt e bike is ok with me. I don't want to be going 20 or 30 miles an hour. If you get knocked off at those speeds your either going to die or be seriously hurt No thankyou.
15.5 seems to work to be honest. I certainly do not think it is ridiculously slow, but it is not fast. I think the main one would have to be the 250w. It could not be any lower. We should be allowed 500w/maybe 750 peak. Throttles I am not too bothered about, they are good for pulling away, but as long as you have a 4mph button and a low gear it should not be that bad. If you are in a high gear... what you doing in a high gear waiting to pull away?
Ok so here my take,
1 -15.5mph is fast enough for a e-bicycle -reason for this is that I’m a city dweller and I have seen how a large majority of unregulated “e-bicycle” speed bus none e-bicycle in a narrow cycle lane
2-you state what is the difference between a car user who has taken a test years ago compared to a cyclist -for a start the driver needs an annual MOT to make sure the motor is road worthy and I can tell as a bicycle mechanic I see a lot a e-bike that I would ride with no motored assist let alone with one.Then the car is registered to a single user or family and if lets say someone was to jump a red light and hit and run there is a far greater chance that the motor could be identified.
3- if you want to go 30min then get a moped or in another method just use a cycle.
In the city bicycle are a mode of transport for most for other it is just a way to piss about and have fun and then there are thouse that are just dick heads “you now who you are”
Hi,
My perspective, and I am only playing the devils advocate as a legal analyst on this one, is that, existing moped and eMoped laws specify that they have to be legally restricted to 28mph maximum speed, which is only 12.5 mph more than an eBike anyway, but they require reg, insurance you to be over 16 and have a at least a provisional driving license.
The point here is that given the fact that in reality the only main difference is throttle and 12.5mph top end this gives very little wiggle room between the 2 classes for any speed increase.
That is without first changing the law and legally increasing the moped classification top speed which simply isn’t going to happen, for the safety reason that many 16 year olds are inexperienced at driving a motor vehicles on the road in traffic, as they are first time road users.
So QED, this is a totally mute point as it is never going to legally happen anyway.
Best Regards, Ben
VPN, City-Desk:
Gotta love the logic of: "Car drivers are entitled and will make dangerous passes even when there's little to no actual gain... therefore we must limit a completely different vehicle."
Cars... the problem is cars.....
Now I actually do think that 25kph, is perfectly fine for my e-bike. It's quite relaxing and I feel like it is a good maximum speed for any bike lane that interacts with pedestrians. I do go significantly faster on my regular old bike, but I'm honestly glad e-bikes are limited like that.
However, with city planning being what it is, I am often forced up on the 50kph roads, which I hate, though I feel that would be a lot safer if I could hit a switch and get a temporary speed boost to keep up with traffic. Though as you point out, as long as I'm on something that resembles a bicycle I could be doing 100kph and every car would still feel the primal need to evertake me.
The only view I follow is this (as an american): 6-10 mph mph around pedestrians on sidewalks, 10-16 mph on sidewalks with no pedestrians and trails, 16 - 25 mph in bike lanes, 25+ mph in the streets riding with traffic. Never had an issue with cops doing this..
That makes a lot of sense
It’s quite tricky tbh. I’ve been on a road bike doing intervals on the way home trying to get the speedometer over 40 mph on a bike lane next to a dual carriageway and had a random person jump out of a bush was so sketchy, didn’t realise bike lanes are only designed to be ridden on at less than 16 mph. Bicycle helmets are only designed to work up to 12 mph. So they’d need to stipulate a different helmet. I’m so glad you mentioned the pavement thing there are shared paths which are gravel if you’re doing 25 on a heavy ebike I don’t think people could control it without a throttle . There’s actually too many things to list to why they shouldn’t put it past 15.
My e scooter does 40mph in uk never ever been stopped or even questioned. If anything people are curious at how fast they can be pushed too. Scotland btw not a city.
20 - 25 mph is adequate, live in S London and downhill on an L20 on level 3 assist can easily overtake a bus where there's no bike lane, on the flat / uphill even on greater "assist" am right on it's tail ... infuriating
I think you need to keep in mind that e-bikes are allowed on shared use paths and 15.5mph is probably good for a lot of those but for roads 15.5mph is a pain even when the speed limit is just 20mph. Call me undecided because it's not simple, like if you had a switch to switch from 15.5mph to 19mph, lets be honest - nobody would ever switch back to 15.5mph.
So basically we should build more bike roads/lanes up the speed limit to 20mph and lower the car speed limit in the more built up areas.
Who says you can't go faster than 15.5 mph on an e-bike? You can go 150 mph on that as well - if you can do that without the motor.
Ebikes may be ridden on the bike path because they are not classed as a motor vehicle, even though they have a motor. It is a concession. The speed limit is there to keep cyclists safe on their protected infrastructure - protected from MOTOR VEHICLES, which, as an exception, you're not classed as. There is no right to be propelled by a motor on a bike path, you're *granted* a *privilege* to do so, provided the motor doesn't propel you to dangerous speeds. I am, frankly, quite annoyed by the entitlement of Ebikers who demand the whole arm after having been graciously granted a little finger.
You want to ride your Ebike faster than 15.5mph? You absolutely can! But then it's not a bicycle any more, it's a motor vehicle, like a scooter or a motorbike. That means you need licence plates, insurance, you're obliged to wear a helmet, and you may not ride on bike paths.
We have a couple of d***heads around here who ride unrestricted illegal Ebikes on bike paths. They are terrifying. Heavy, bulky things, often kitted out with lot of stuff like phones or tablets on handlebars, large panniers or bags, blindingly bright lights. They are at least as heavy as a scooter, run on huge, noisy and slow MTB tyres, the riders sit bolt upright and pass a (pretty quick) road cyclist like me as if it were nothing. If something similar were allowed on the bike paths, even with 20mph, what's the point of a bike path? You can just as well ride in traffic.
The law should be:
· 1kW motor (or 500W + 500W front and rear, or any balance people want)
· 30MPH limit
· Twist 'n' Go allowed up to 30MPH
· New category created for "e-Bike", as opposed to "MOPED"
Simple as, but governments want total control over our private travel, eventually removing our right to private travel completely, so they can get everyone on subscription schemes run by government and corporations. This is to limit how far we're allowed to go, using "carbon footprint" limitations as a means of control.
Would there be any requirements? Insurance or training? And are they still allowed in parks etc? And if it goes the same speed as a moped what's the difference?
@@e-VRC i agree - this without training/experience will be deadly (like for some teenagers in Wales, running from police)
Rules should stay same for people under 21 year old
over this - 20MPH/500W limit
and 28MPH/750W with any full licence (can be moped, bike or car licence)
insurance - optional ;)
@@e-VRCevery road user should have insurance, identification (eg plates) and training. It's dangerous to use all vehicle types even a horse.
@@stanley3647 this would be a good approach, except bump it up to 30 for the last level, 28 still invites the overtake but at 30 you could reasonably sit in the middle of the lane and when a driver behind realises you're doing 30 most would just follow like they would any other vehicle doing the speed limit
@@e-VRC Aye, I think a licence and insurance would be good, the same as with Mopeds (and motorbikes).
You are stupendously wrong with with the point regarding speed. You argue against yourself by citing safety for the current 15.5 mph speed cap. Regardless, try going round a large roundabout without assistance, or whacking your inner pedal on the tarmac. That's bloody dangerous.
If you are prevented from going with the flow of traffic, you are in danger. 20mph and 30mph should be the norm. It's statistically safer for every road user. Government statistics demonstrate this.
Those with an infirmity are prejudiced by current legislation.
Need I go on?
Please cite your source.
The Department for Transport says (about all accidents involving bicycles)
'The factors are largely subjective, reflecting the opinion of the reporting police officer, and are not neccessarily the result of extensive investigation'.
So if you happen to have more accurate information about keeping up with traffic I'd be delighted to read it, if you'd be so kind.
@@pd4165PetitionIncrease the maximum assisted speed for e-bikes from 15.5 mph to 20 mph
We want the Government to increase permissible maximum assisted speed for e-bikes to 20 mph. The current limit of 15.5 mph (25 kmph) is restrictive compared to those set in some other countries, including the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Brazil.
A throttle is actually legal up to 15.5 mph, if it only works when your turning the pedals. On mine, you don't have to apply any force to them as just windmilling them around is good enough. Re cable operated disk brakes, the limiting factor is normally the grip between the tyre and the road. I can't see the minor increase in speed needing upgraded brakes.
Re speed limit I would prefer 20 mph, which would make it easier to keep up with non-assisted bikes (at the moment I tend to go faster uphill, slower on the level bits).
Power limit is my main pain point.
I live in Finland, I need a fatbike to go through some roads that are covered in snow, 250W is like, 10kph....
Totally agree. I feel like people should be able to do 25kph uphill too
I agree with all your opinions on these matters. It'sbasically what I would have said; however, there are a couple of general misconceptions I'd like to comment on:
Firstly, throttles are allowed and are not restricted to 6 km/hr. The rule is that the power must stop when you stop pedalling unless you're speed is less than 6km/hr. In other words, the throttle can be used as a speed or power regulator, which is much easier than pushing buttons on an LCD. The government says "twist and go" is not allowed, meaning power without pedalling is not allowed. Some controllers (KT brand) have settings, where the throttle will give independent power up to 6km/hr, then continue as a speed regulator up to 25km/hr as long as you turn the pedals.
Secondly, there is no 250w power limit. The law says that you cannot use a motor "rated" at more than 250w. When an engineer does a rating, they might typically use a safety factor of 3 or 4 times, but there is no rule or regulation about how they do their rating, especially when they have to consider every type of niche use and abuse of their motor. In other words, a motor that can produce a maximum output power of say 2kw, could be and has been rated at 250w by the manufacturer and is perfectly legal to use in a UK ebike without licence and registration.
I've done a bit over 4k on an ebike and to be honest the speed assist limit doesn't bother me considering you can use them anywhere a normal bike is allowed
I think it depends on the rider experience and road awareness along with the bike capabilities i.e decent brakes. Also a CBT or motorbike license could be required for over 15mph...
No special licensing, governments already reach too far into our personal space.
Truthfully, the license laws they have are really more about revenues for government than they are for safety.
There are legal electric bikes that can do more with a motorbike license etc.
25mph out of towns and so on, 15.5 is fine in those areas (crowded, congested) and i agree some sort of test just to make sure were safer for a bit more powerful bike, i wouldnty mind paying 50 bucks to be able to ride a 750wat bike legally
I believe you should be able to go 30 or 35 mph if that's the posted limit as long as weather permits and you have insurance on it and tagged.
250 Watts is totally inadequate where I live. The area is known as Mini Switzerland so uphill speeds of 4 mph are hard and downhill 40mph is a breeze until it comes to stopping. Nirvana would be 15.5mph uphill and downdale.
I've maxed my ebike out at 48mph so far - thanks to gravity (naughty gravity). The 2-pot disk brakes work fine, but yeah, I'd prefer 4-pot if I were riding that fast and having to brake hard more often. I do weigh 100 kilos. Up lesser gradients I might sustain 15mph, and on steeper hills with the motor turned up I hover around the 10mph mark. On the flat, without a headwind, I tend to cruise at just over 20mph, I often get passed by racers on non-assisted bikes. Now, I could turn my assist up to max and go faster, but I choose not to, just like cars can be driven at far above the speed limit if their drivers choose to. When I'm on a shared track with pedestrians I adjust my speed down to compensate, and I work on a hard rule that pedestrians have priority. I'm not in a race, and I can adjust my speed to suit conditions according to my onboard computer - my brain.
I despise the ebike laws. They have been designed by lazy-minded people to cover the extremes of possibility, and those of us who are sensible are just collateral damage caught-up in the mindless moral panic of zealots, and the ignorance of the riders who wouldn't care about others whatever they are riding. As to accommodating arrogant car drivers who demand they must do at least the speed limit all of the time - they're the ones with a problem that needs to be corrected.
The ebike laws are an ass. Restrict motors to 250W okay, but don't single out ebikes for special laws that restrict them to performing below that easily achieved by analogue bikes! Speed is speed, whether it comes from leg-power alone, or a combination of leg-power and a little electric motor.
I'm a disabled man, when i was in my teens and early 20s i was a competitive cyclist. Unfortunately after having sepsis i developed a autoimmune condition that attacks my nerves. I would love to get back on two wheels but i can barely walk. I would love to have a ebike that could be powered without pedaling... Also i think 20mph should be the speed limit, one, that's the speed of traffic in towns and such. Two, makes the bike a fair mode of transportation. And three most people could achieve that speed with little training
Sorry to hear about your condition, I have a friend who has a disability which prevents him from pedalling but he has now got an ebike that uses a throttle to propel him, he loves it , it's not very fast at around 18mph on the flat but perfectly adequate, perhaps u could do the same to get u out on a bike, I know it's technically against the law but in reality no one cares and won't bother u 👍
Hi, There is a company that makes electric tricycles, which you can specify as a full moped classification with Reg if you wish, which are fully DVLA registered and can ridden completely on throttle only.
Alternatively, if you want to ride entirely without pedalling on 2 wheeled electric vehicle, what you are actually describing is an electric moped and many, many of these exist already, so you just have to simply buy one to satisfy your need/requirement and your away.
Hope this helps as I am certain that you didn’t know what you are asking for actually exists already or you where simply searching for some way to side step existing moped/rMoped legislation.
Kindest Regards, Ben
VPN, City-Desk.
As a regular ebiker i have no problem with the speed limit as it is right now, what gets my goat is the cost of batteries and the difficulties involved in upgrading your existing battery. I get plenty of power from my motor it even allows me to tow a sometimes heavy trailer so no complaints there, what i most desire is extra range but the cost of a new battery is prohibitive. 7:45
Should faster vehicles including ebikes have more and better safety features at the speed increases. In the US more ebikes are coming with rear brake-lights and and turn-signals , At higher speeds should front turn signals and mirrors be required, say 28 to 32mph. Go faster and you have to met stricter requirements. In most states in the US you come under that states motor vehicle laws at speeds over 28 MPH.
There is something to be said with being able to flow with the traffic. When you are slower than the traffic, relatively speaking, you & the traffic behind you are moving towards each other.
On my British built/made e-bike the motor cuts out around 17mph, the handbook states there is a plus/minus allowance I presume this is allowed in law.
I spend 2 years with moped limited to 28MPH (45kph) and every driver wanna overtake me like no tommorow.
Now with 125cc bike i riding 33-35 MPH because if I stick to limit - 30 - still some drivers tailgating and overtaking. Till next traffic light when I go ahead ;)
Mentality of drivers are need to be change.
Should be USA-style law - Class 1, 2 and 3 ebikes with minor changes:
1 for everyone (like now)
2 for 18+ or 21+
3 for any driving licence holder
I think you hit the nail on the head, hence the lower speed of 15mph...so not to interfere with the 20 mph zones being brought in across the UK. Good video, thanks AI
I swapped out screen and derestricted my e-bike and it’s great, only downside is that the range is now 35km compared to 50km when restricted…
..but what if you un-restrict it and only want to go up to 20mph for short stretches of say 400 metres?
I use power for only about half of each trip - what about you?
Paul G
the pedal assist limit is almost impossible to police, since an ebike can be pedaled to higher speeds or going downhill. Using a classification system like in America makes sense.
we could maybe..
class 1 up to 15.5mph can use cycle lanes.
class 2 up to 20mph using roads hi vis clothing plus helmet
class 3 up to 30mph CBT training, insurance, hi vis, helmet
class4 above 40mph same requirement as motorbike MOT tax etc
bike classification
I dont think there should a pedal assist requirement, so the classification should include scooters which should have a minimum wheel size of say 8" for stability. A bike without pedals in class 1 and 2 would be safer since the rider would not be able to exceed the motor limit by pedaling.
I’d say 15.5mph is fine for e-bikes. Averaging that on a normal bike isn’t that easy, so it’s faster than most can ride a normal bike. Totally agree that some sort of licensing would be good for faster/more powerful bikes, but the bikes themselves have to be up to it, especially the brakes. But then you come to the road worthiness of the bikes, they may be fine when new but who’s going to check they are ok a couple of years down the line. Only needs someone wiping out a kid on a crossing at 30mph because their brakes don’t work, and we’ll have to (quite rightly) have mot’s for the bikes. There’s a lot more involved by going a few miles an hour faster.
I like my 250W bike which is unrestricted, so doesn't cut off at 15.5mph. If it did I would be doing 95% of the journey with no assistance, because I'm not going to want to cruise at only 15.5mph on any bike. The assistance at higher speeds is far less noticable than at lower speeds anyway, and is really just taking the edge off it, and making me want to get out and cycle more
It depends on the roads, if you are driving on a 30 mph road you will want to over take a bike doing 15 or 25 mph, but if you are going 20 in a 20 zone then why would you want to overtake and get a ticket.
The cyclist wouldn't get a ticket so you would sit back and keep your license safe, but if you are going 15 on a bike and the zone is 20 you will want to overtake.
However on a 60 mph road the only thing that would satisfy a car driver would be if the bike did 80 mph so clearly no winner there.
I've had the same issue with a motorcycle, on a fast road you do the speed limit and cars feel the need to overtake, even though they know they will be breaking the law and the bike you are riding has more than enough power to leave them standing with the twist of the throttle, they still feel the need to break the law, you can pull away from them to show them they are being stupid but it's an issue of the mentality of car drivers.
Even in the city, you drive within the speed limit on a motorcycle or even in a small car, other car drivers feel the need to overtake even though they know they will be breaking the law, they get frustrated that someone is in front of them, it's mental conditioning, some cars you see them race to the lights and the bicycle sales through a red light, then the car drivers have a problem of the cyclist going through a red light, because they feel they must be in front, this happens to busses, cycles, motorcycles and small cars, in fact anything sticking to the legal limit.
Keeping up with traffic is the most important reason to up the speed limit, what if you're on a narrow road where cars can't easily overtake, if you're sitting at 15mph the cars behind a more likely to get frustrated and do something stupid, and we know who's going to lose that interaction. Where As if you're doing 25mph the cars behind a more likely to wait it out
25mph seems reasonable.
I do that on my Eskateboard and on my bikes (downhill) easily.
Primary danger on a bike/ebike is being hit by a car, not you crashing or falling off at speed. So the cars speed is much more important than yours, on a bike.
He needs to raise his seat as he is not getting full extension on his legs when he cycles
18mph that is the average speed I used to travel on a normal bike back in the day, so 18mph on ebike, after passing a test similar to scooter then upp allowable speed to 30mph. Also include age limit to faster speeds. The watt law is nonsense as most of us oldies use ebikes because of hills and higher watts is needed for hills. I like the ebike I have as it has several settings and I have found I use the higher settings for hills not for speed. nice vid cheers
The power law your mistaken on, it's not limited to 250w at all it's limited to 250w nominal, most store bought e bikes produce well over 600-700w if they didn't you wouldn't be able to get up most hills.
I think the limit should be increased to the speed that a physically fit rider of a non-electric bike would typically manage on a flat surface. So around 25-30 mph.
In Australia so same laws as the UK pretty sure, idk about mph but our limit is 25kmh 250w motor. I feel like 25kmh is just a bit too slow, and 30kmh is perfect. YES i like to go faster than 30kmh but 30 feels good. I have 2 bikes one is a 250w road legal ebike the other is a 1500w custom, and on the 1500w 30kmh feels pretty safe and is perfect to not disrupt traffic too much and also feels safer because of the same reason being you dont disrupt the flow of traffic as much which means calmer drivers making safer overtaking decisions
We have these dumb laws in Australia as well. Also if we ride on foot paths we are not allowed to go faster than 10 kph so it is safer for pedestrians on the footpath.
I think 19-20 mph would be just about enough my issue is that my bike doesn’t have gearing for me to go faster than that. It’s almost as if it is designed around that 15.5mph speed limit.
25mph on pedal assist, 20 on a quarter throttle...if you want to go 30+ mph, then take your CBT and get a motorcycle or moped. The hills here where I live are up to 25% incline and we need the torque for these hills.
It would be nice to have a 2 classification system:
Category 1- 15.5mph 250w nominal (as existing) no license required
Category 2- 25mph 750w nominal for existing driving licence holders
There is clear legislation (existing) about this- you can ride a bike (ebike or moped) that will do 20-30mph if it is registered, taxed and you have the correct license. There has to be a lower motorised class distinction (the current 15.5mph) so that there is an option to for those that don’t want to gain a license and registration/insurance costs. I have a 250w legal ebike, a 1,450w 58v custom which has a road legal mode to get me to the off-road riding and a 80kw motorcycle for longer faster riding. My 250w ebike is great for getting in and out of town and is efficient enough to be pedalled at double the cut off motor speed.
As a side note there aren’t any actual 250w e-bikes, that is the nominal continuous output at the 15.5mph cut of when not under any load- most 36v 250w e-bikes have a maximum power output of 630(ish)w- that’s 42v at 100% battery x 15amps output.
Good points well made. Faster and more power does make them into mopeds and these have rules. Maybe allowing them to be registered and licencing the rider is a solution. Obviously slow and low power gives freedom of where to ride and no licence needed. Mine is over 6years old so legally has a throttle. At 250w it is not speeding anywhere and needs pedalling up hills. Whatever speed I go, it beats walking and unassisted cycling, so I'm not complaining.
True, even 250w no throttle ebikes are amazing. And yeah it's the freedom of where to ride that is important, it's not always about commuting.
Dont really understand why anyone would ride on the pavement putting pedestrians in danger.
Because in a lot of situations cars don’t give you the same consideration as you think pedestrians should get. I ride on the road at 4am going to work but coming back I have been knocked off twice by inconsiderate motorists so I use the footpath.
Power should be unrestricted as peoples weight and mobility varies. Throttle should be allowed as sometimes is safer to use/concentrate on steering vs having to "go through the motions" of peddling even though you aren't actually putting pressure on the peddles. The max speed should be 20 mph so it aligns with the new 20 mph limits.
I’d prefer a class system like the US & Canada.
Firstly raise the base allowed speed to 20mph and to 750w motors, then e-bikes begin to make sense for a lot more people.
For anyone wanting to use a E-bike on public highways with a top speed of 25-29MPH then they’d have to pass a CBT
30mph - 40mph should be the max limit of an legal e-bike where the bike must have been registered with the DVLA via request form, CBT and a license with insurance, (specific to e-bikes) (no need for plates though)
40+ it should be treated similar to a moped if not just classed as one. I.e insurance, plates, licenses the full shebang
I am an experienced cyclist and motorcyclist
but now have a disability that makes it hard to pedal any distance. An electric bike or scooter would be brilliant for me and probably many other disabled people. It would be essential to have a throttle though for people with limited mobility.
The motor doesn't "cut out" at the top speed. People should stop saying that. On my Class 2 ebike (in Canada it's typically 500 W, 32 kph max whether pedal-assisted or throttle) when I have pedal assist set to 4/4, and I approach 32 kph, the motor is still consuming 500 W, as indicated on the display. You can be pedalling faster, but the motor just doesn't contribute more than its maximum. Anything over 32 is up to you. Or the steepness of the hill descent.
Didn't you just describe the motor cutting out at the top speed?
@@e-VRC Nope, because the motor is still working at that top speed.
If my car's engine "cuts out" on the highway, I'm hoping I can coast to a safe stop on the shoulder.
@@orthicon9 sorry I don't really know what you're trying to say. Ebike motors do cut out when they hit 15.5 (ISH). Unless they're configured to go faster. Above 15.5 we're moving along under our own pedal power. Once we go back below 15.5 the motor kicks in again. You can't pedal a car plus car motors don't cut out at certain speeds. Maybe you have an ebike that doesn't cut out and you think all ebikes are like yours?
@@e-VRC Car motors certainly do cut out (at any speed) if they run out of gas. My point was that if any motor "cuts out", it does not contribute any motive power towards keeping the vehicle going.
Back to ebikes: we have a RadMini ST2 and a RadExpand 5. With both bikes, when you exceed the maximum speed (of 32 kph in our jurisdiction), whether pedalling with pedal assist or with the throttle, the display indicates that SOMETHING (presumably the hub motor) is still eating up 500 watts. When you back off the throttle a bit, or select a lower degree of pedal assist, it uses less power. At, say, minimum pedal assist they use about 65 watts.
If you don't twist the throttle AND don't pedal (so that the cadence sensor "knows" you're not pedalling anymore), you're just coasting, using "0 W".
Or partially squeeze either one of the brake handles, then the motor does indeed "cut out" even if you ARE still pedalling or twisting the throttle, and it shows as consuming "0 W" while you are coasting and slowing down.
You said "Above 15.5 we're moving along under our own pedal power." It's not just that, it's our pedal power *plus* 500W of motor power. Or 250W, depending on where you are.
Otherwise it would be like trying to pedal at 32 kph (or 15.5 kph) with the bike turned off completely by the keyswitch, or the battery sitting on a shelf back in the garage. Good training for a Triathlon, I suppose.
If they raise the limit to 20 mph, there be a lot of e bikes stuck on their fixed 15 mph bikes. To change it to 20 mph involves new legislation and parliament time also involves changing moped rules. So the people who would benefit are the ones who can alter the limit in their controller
Hey man whats the model of the bike you are riding that looks foldable and has the yellow colour? Cheers
@@cafedelmario maybe a bezior x1500?
The issue for me is riding on shared paths. Even then I slow right down to 10mph and below because of pedestrians and dogs and ring my bell to alert them. But then my primary reason for getting an ebike is exercise.
We need more protected cycling infrastructure from traffic not more speed imo. Also could have more LTNs. But these are controversial.
If you want to go faster than 20mph then get yourself a speed pedelec to overtake and keep up with traffic. But then you should only use them on roads and get them registered with DVLA etc.
Edit: not mentioned in this video is the Government consultation of increasing e-bikes to 500w (still capped at 15.5mph) and throttle based bikes to 15.5mph. The consultation comes to an end on April 25. Have your say if you feel strongly enough.
My wife on her road bike rides consistently at around 17mph. My e-bike cannot do this speed, and I cannot therefore, keep up with her pedalling. I believe the 15 would be better replaced with 20. Any faster could be bad for the health in a collision.
Start pedalling...simple
You should try a class 3 mobility scooter on the road, restricted to 8mph everywhere else in the EU and most of the world is 15mph, a road legal scooter with lights indicators and restricted to 8mph is downright dangerous
We need ebikes to go 20mph top speed with a 500w 48v motors to get up the hills. 250w is never enough to get up hills efficiently and especially if you are an old or disabled rider. The UK government are a joke for limiting ebikes to 250w
Same laws for ebikes in EU. Ridiculous laws they literally want to control everything you do. The media is allover fatbikes like it's a pandemic.
I think he is British?
I think the speed laws makes sense, mostly because of one factor - the users themselves. Ebikes have made it vastly more accessable to use your bike to commute, but that also brings more people into traffic using bikes. Using a bike at "high speed" in safe manners needs skill, and people who use normal bikes in those speeds usually has that skill since it's often their hobby. Giving "normal" people the opportunity to go fast on a bike, could definately highten the incident statistics by a lot, since people just aren't good enough or ready for that extra power.
A solution for it, could simply be to introduce a driver's licence for Ebikes with a higher speed assistance, with proper training and sharpened regulation for use of protective equipment (like better helmets) since they then use sometging more similar to mopeds in terms of performance. But that requirement, I guess would upset people as well.
I expect ebikes should be down to the license you hold. If you have a full motorcycle license, you should be able to have a throttle and a speed limit which is in keeping with the road speed or capability of the bike purchased whereas someone who only has a driving license for a car will be less competent and should probably be limited to 20mph.
I think the 15.5 speed limit is sensible for cycle tracks which are shared with pedestrians.
I would like to add something that does not get mentioned much in the "speed" debate, BRAKING! I ride a Crazybird JUmper and on the whole I love it however... I have some hills (not too much of a gradient) near me and when descending, just freewheeling the bike will very quickly get up to 20+ MPH. The Crazybird is a very heavy bike at at times I think the brakes have to work VERY hard to slow you down. 15MPH is plenty fast enough for me, I think if I was doing 20mph and had to stop quickly the brakes would not be up to it.
My bike is 15.5mph, with a 4mph walk assist on the throttle. I think 25mph is a good speed, yet below the 30mph 50cc moped speeds. Throttle assist is fine, except if for example you are registered physically disabled...when the throttle assist would get you home, if you are in pain. We're not in the EU, so they know what they can do with their rules. CbT type test, you might as well get a moped. I can get 35 TO 40mph with no assistance downhill on my Himiway Cruiser...because of the weight of the bike, myself and my bergen