How to Make Your Own Pepper: Saving Hybrid Seed
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- Опубліковано 9 жов 2024
- In this video, I show a simple technique to create your own vegetable at least a generation quicker than a simple cross. First, you need to find a hybrid pepper, tomato, or whatever that you really like. Then, it's a matter of saving the seed and being picky with your selecting process. I cover it all in the video!
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I bought gypsy peppers (hybrid) about 12 years ago. I've been using seeds from every year since then. And they've been true for the past 12 years.
It takes 8 generations from a hybrid, F1, to reach "true". Of course, you get a lot of consistency beyond F3 generation, but there'll still be outliers at F3 then less and less till F8. That's cool though for your Gypsy. You have the right to call it something else now 'cause Gypsy can only be an F1 hybrid.
Another cool project Brent! One I'm going to put on my growing list of things to try.
Good deal brother. It can be fun for sure.
I love your plant breeding videos this year I'm going to make a few tomato and pepper hybrids
Thank you! Oh, it's fun. You could get addicted!
@@C3Voyage lol I'm sure I'll manage
3 years later 😉
I just found your video and this is a fantastic video. You manage to explain things I tried to understand for a long time.
But there is one thing that I can't understand and that is how the first hybrid seeds always become the same.
I'm new to this so I don't know any names yet but let's say that you buying stable seeds (F8 or something) that is called X and Y. Then you make a hybrid of these and get F1 seeds.
If I also buy some X and Y seeds and make an hybrid of those, will I then get the exact same F1 seeds as you do?
Thank you for a great video 🍻
All traits are dominate or recessive. When two stable plants are crossed, the dominate trait is what shows. All those other genes are in the plants still, but only the dominate traits display. It's called the phenotype or what it looks like. If you save the seed from just that one plant, then all of those genes mix and some less dominate and recessive genes begin to show in the 2nd generation.
@@C3Voyage thank you for taking your time to explain. This is super interesting.
I think I only have one more question to bother you with 😉
How to get variations between the F2 seeds? Will it be variations between the seeds in one fruit or do I need to take seeds from different fruits? Or maybe even from different plants?
@@902409 Grow out lots of F2 seed. Each plant will have differences. It's the genes in each plant that are different. Pick the plant (and it's fruit) you like best to continue. The fruit on one plant is the same genes as the plant itself. Don't differentiate between individual fruits on one plant. It's individual plants. When I grow out F2s, I look for a good plant with the foliage growth and fruit I want. I discard all other plants and self that one plant to carry forward. The more F2 seed you grow, the more plants you can choose from. Do the same in F3 to F8. Each generation will become more consistent losing 50% diversity each generation.
@@C3Voyage you are amazing. You should be a teacher 😁 Thank you so much.
@@902409 Basically, it's like with humans. Your mom and your dad gave their genes to create you. Still, your brother might be completely different. If you want to get the good Sploff traits, you need to weed out your brother and continue your inherited genes yourself, so your brother doesn't spoil the good genetics your family might have lol
Of course I'm joking here, but you'll get the idea.
Another great project Brent. Have a great day. Best wishes Bob.
Thanks Bob!
Great video. Thanks
best explanation out there :)
Thanks Dude!
real interesting project. Just curious can you put the seed in a dehydrator to speed up the process. Will the pvp protection appear on the seed packets. Have a wonderful day
I've read where some use a dehydrator, but with my breeding, I don't want to lose the seed to potential overheating. Those who say not to use a dehydrator (research) have said that the machines are too inconsistent. Were I of a mind to, I'd do it with a few and do a seed germination test after to see if my dehydrator ruined them or not. Maybe someday. PVP is supposed to be on seed packet, yes as well as in the information when sold online. There some back and forth over saving PVP being ok if the home gardener doesn't re-sell it, but only grows it. Personally, PVP protection is a right by a breeder who wants to protect his intellectual property so I wouldn't disrespect his or her efforts or capitalism! :O)
Oh, and PVP was created in 1970 (I think) to encourage breeders to create unique work.
Hi Brent, I'm just coming back to this video. First, it's a really great one, like most of your videos, it's such a shame it doesn't have more views, and you haven't more subscribers.
I just have a question: Are all the seeds from a plant the same ? Or are all the seeds from a fruit the same ? Or is each and every seed different ? What I mean, is that if you save seeds from your F1 tomatos, will the seeds from the same plant give the same F2 or not ? Or every seed, even if it's from the very same tomato (fruit), will get you different F2s ? Thanks Brent !
F1s are all the same, heterozygous. Saved seed from F1 (F2 seed) is all over the place mixed, but often somewhat similar in many cases depending on what is crossed. Each seed from every fruit is different at F2. So, if you save 10 seed from one tomato, 10 seed from a second tomato, and again 10 seed from a third tomato, you have 30 seeds and all will be different. Even the 10 seed in the same tomato will all be different.
If the two parents of the F1 are pretty similar, then there seem to be less diversity at the F2. For example, if you cross a California Wonder bell pepper with a Emerald Giant bell pepper, then the F2s will look a lot alike. If you cross an orange pumpkin with a yellow crooked-neck squash, all 30 seed will look different at F2. This is referred to as phenotype or looks. There's also genotype influences such as vigor, disease resistance, and taste for example.
Thank you very much, very clear.
Awesome.
Very interesting topic Brent.
Ed
Thanks Ed!
For peppers you can mix the pollen and get faster results
I don't understand. Mix which pollen? Get faster results for? Could you explain that further? Always willing to learn! :O)
Sorry I thought you were just using the seeds you’re actually doing it the normal way what I was talking about was the Pollen from one of the flowers and put it into the other I was just a little confused about the video
If i cross pollinate a pepper plant, took the first fruit seed, grow it, and cross pollinate it will it work?
Yes, as long as they're all the same species. Crossing species might be difficult. How much, I'm just not sure, but here's an article on the different types: www.cayennediane.com/pepper-species/
Although seeds are often sold as hybrids many of these are in fact not hybrid. Most people know, planting or raising anything hybrid from hybrid stock is a gamble because the characteristics of the plant or animal can drastically change from the parent stock. It is my opinion that seed sellers may be labelling non hybrid stack as hybrids for there own reasons. Anyway... the bottom line is don't be afraid of saving hybrid seed to grow as often they do come true to form. On occasion you may get an inconsistent mixed up crop which confirms the parent stock was hybrid. With patience and years of work even these mixed up genetics can be straightened out to give you a consistent predictable variety.
Hey Bill, been breeding veggies for a while so I got this stuff down. :O) I've been working on 4 dehybridization projects and all 4, including this one, had genetic variability in the F2. This one, not as much, but that variability is less when plants bred that are pretty similar. I've also made many crosses that I've carried out to stable, or soon-to-be stable, varieties over the years. Madison's Cross is a yellow summer that is stable. I'm crossing it now to make my own hybrid(s). Succeed is my first stable tomato. Lacy is in F6. This pepper is in F4 now. Amber Flare is a mutant of Chocolate Stripes that seems automatically stable as mutants often are. In it's second generation. I have a melon and a pepper that are very difficult to select next generations from due to so much diversity and qualities I don't like. They were fine in F3, but F4s look like crap. Thing is, I only have so much space to make selections so the samples are smaller, except tomatoes, which are my first passion. Have 3 or 4 other squash crosses that are in F2-F4 stages and they include back-crosses. Started on butternuts, second generation too. So, as you can see, I have lots of this kind of stuff going on and they're in almost every video as almost all I grow is my own work now. I have a cucumber dehybridization coming up in the next video or so.
I agree with you for sure that some companies label seed as hybrid to keep people coming back. I also LOVE hybrid seed. Crossing hybrids creates a ton of diversity to work with. The only potential hybrid I've run across that may not be an actual hybrid is my turnip greens. I'm at F4 now and they look the same as the hybrid parent. Because it was labeled as a hybrid, Alamo F1, it's now very easy to call this variety of mine Alamo OP in a few more generations. I don't have a problem with that either because I may be missing the nuances in dehybridization and carrying down 8 generations ensures it's OP based off of my own work. I doubt I'll call is Alamo OP, but I could. Please hang around and chat with me some more ok. Sounds like you find this stuff interesting too and I like talking to folks like you!
Hi Brent. Sounds like you and I have a similar obsession. The only difference is I don't bother crossing I stick to selection of the best to save seeds from. I've been doing this with Tomatoes and cucumbers for more than 10 years. Peppers for perhaps 8 years and butternut squash for many years until I decided I like Kombucha squash better. I also have a smattering of other veggy lines I also hold onto. The nice thing about plant breeding is you simply eat your mistakes and they are delicious! My most interesting success is my main line of tomatoes which originated from a wild tomato seedling that grew beside my deck. It is a determinate type and has amazing qualities. I speculate it may have originated as a seed from a commercial tomato that managed to escape out of a sandwich someone was eating. I have subscribed to your channel and of course gave the video a thumbs up.
Appreciate the sub. I see you don't YT so I can't sub back which I only do for fellow gardeners of interest. So, it sounds like you grow out hybrids and select the ones you like best then? It's a great way to get some unique veggies that acclimatize to your area. Glad you're here and chat me up as much as you'd like. I enjoy it. :O)
So do you self pollinate your pepperplants like your video shows with the tomato plants? CrossBreeding? Then save the seeds deom that would it be considered a F1 Hybrid?
Yes, same process for the most part. I have crossed them, but peppers don't get my attention as much as tomatoes and others!
Good
Are all cross pollinated tomatoes/peppers safe to consume?
Yes, very much so.
can I save the seeds from Mama Mia Giallo F1 pepper it says hybrid but what is the outcome you think, the same or a completely different pepper?
The saved seed are F2. They will be a mix of both parents' genetics similar to the way two children from the same two parents look differently. This is the best opportunity to look for something you like. I do it to get something better than the parent. This one of mine is better than the F1 for example. Save your seed from the plant you like the most and the next generation will be F3. There will be more in this one that looks like your picked plant form F2. Keep doing that till F8 and you'll have your own pepper like I do now. I call it California Bryan after my son. Grow as many of the F1 saved seed as you can so you'll have lots to pick from. It's the most important generation to make picks.
@@C3Voyage Thank you so much I've been hesitant to buy hybrid seeds, I have been growing a couple years now, but didn't know about Hybrid seeds or F1 until recently. Thank you that helps a lot.
Your genetics explanation is off...but I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say.
Please update it. I'll learn and everyone else will. I'm a hobby breeder.
Lee, please explain where I went wrong or I'll have to take the comment off. I don't want confusion for those who read comments. If you make a great point, I'll update the title and description with corrections. I'd rather be truthful than right. Thanks buddy.
First generation is 50% of each parent, which 50% is random and that's why there can be so much variation.
My brother Lee, that is not correct. I'm sorry. First generation F1s are identical to each other. Say you grow 1000 plants. All 1000 of a simple cross are identical. It's what seed companies sell when they sell a "hybrid." People would not buy the Big Beef hybrid if every seed were different. The F2 generation of a selfed F1 is the most diverse and all over the place. As I mentioned in the video, each selfed generation after F1 gains 50% more towards stability and each generation is more consistent in the populations. I know all of this to be truths because I've bred different types of vegetables many times now.
There are sometimes traits where F2s and beyond are identical and that's if that trait is homozygous recessive. Such a case would be a potato leafed tomato.
I'm not sure you're going to believe my reply so here is a source to review if you like. The first covers the F1 heterozygous uniformity and the second is a breakdown of each generation after if selfed:
kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes.html
kdcomm.net/~tomato/gene/genes2.html
Brent, thanks so much for your respectful responses. Your links are helpful for understanding where you got those percents regarding the likelihood of being homozygous - definitely important for getting true breeding stock. Let me add what I hope is some clarity to a few points below.
F1 may /appear/ all identical because it's the F2 where recessive and incompletely dominant phenotypes typically express themselves. F1 still got 50% random genes from each parent and there is variation - just the same way you might differ from any siblings you might have.
Hybrids are so valuable in farming because of hybrid vigor, which is a product of having more functioning genes. Said another way, they are less likely to have two mutated versions of the same gene (which is the downside of inbreeding).
Here's a decent visualization of what's going on in the genes/traits of F1/F2: www.desktopclass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/showing-only-dominant-trait..jpg
Fact checking welcomed. :) A good Google search on this topic is 'Mendelian genetics.'
Thanks very much for your videos and sharing your passion. I'm a fellow plant lover and science enthusiast (my masters is in science teaching for bio).
They won't grow if they're from a different family
Hey Chicken! I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. Would you clarify some please?