I went through the exif on all of my favorite photos I’ve taken over the last 10 years. It turned out over 90% were from the 20mm. After going through many lenses and bodies and even a time with the Fujifilm X series, I’m coming back to micro-43rds. My original setup was the GF1 and the 20. It was small, light, and unobtrusive - so I bought myself the Olympus OMD EM-10 Mk II and the Lumix 20 II to replicate the feeling I had with such a lightweight and effective setup! Thanks for reminding me how great micro-43rds is.
It's hard to credit that such a small and light combination can produce such image quality. That's the game changer with Micro Four Thirds, as you say. Thanks for such an enthusiastic take!
I am almost old myself and I have the old 20mm 1.7. We are a nice couple. I don't even think about up- or is it newgrading. I bought the pancake years ago, for an Olympus EPL-1. Now I use it on my Panasonic GX80 (85). I use it mostly for low light photography, just like your examples in pubs and so on. Otherwise I prefer the 14-140. But it's also good for all day shooting if you want to travel not too bulky and with more than acceptable results. When I was young I always had to focus manually, and with this lens that not focusses always correct in low light, it feels good to be able to show my skills when necessary. 😂
As an ex press photographer, I am very aware that knowing your equipment is often more important than what it is. Modern auto systems are mind blowingly effective technically but they can't read your mind. When they falter or don't appear to be doing exactly what you intend, having your own skills comes into its own. I find it most useful in extreme situations, where you cannot get enough depth of field to follow a moving subject, chasing kids running around, for example. Putting your 20mm on 2 metres or so and switching off auto focus will get more sharp frames than any auto-focus system. I suppose it is true of most things, the more you know, the better your skills, the better your work.
@@DavidThorpeMFT I agree Fran and David. I love using this lens on my GX85. I set one of my custom modes to back button focusing, with manual focus and focus peaking. I focus initially with the back button, then tweak it up in manual. I commonly get very sharp pictures. There's nothing like having a compact setup like this for everyday, general purpose use.
Should I buy this lens, or should I "wait" for the third iteration? If so, when... I couldn't find any info about the third version, hoping it has better auto focus. Also does it come with a lens hood?
No, no lens hood. You can get cheap ones, though. I doubt Panasonic will update this lens now. They have the 15mm and the 25mm f1/7s, probably leave it at that.
@@robertlennon6923 The 20 (.2m) and 17mm (.25m) are similar, the Panasonic a bit further at .3m - about 2 inches in it but the 25mm will probably give a larger image.
I opted for the Sigma 19mm f2.8 over this lens purely because of cost and the Sigma focus's faster. For the price of this lens I ended up getting the Sigma 19mm f2.8 and a Panasonic 14mm f2.5 which for me at least, was a better deal. Nice review and it confirmed that I made the correct choice even though optically this lens is superb.
I would, though depending on your requirements you may find the slow (by latest standards) focusing less than ideal. My own favourite is Olympus 17.. f/1/8, less pancake but still tiny.
Something I've noticed about this lens on Panasonic cameras: the continues auto focus is disabled and you are limited to standard or manual. This happens with my GH4 and GF5 too. I presume it is due to the slow focusing on this lens, which renders AFC meaningless anyway
I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Jaffar. It's the only Micro Four Thirds lens with such a limitation as far as I recall. The 20mm is a popular lens and I'd have thought Panasonic would have upgraded it by now. The second version was mainly a cosmetic upgrade apart from a lens coating change.
Thanks. Yes, it's a good sharp lens whether it was big or small but the advantage of the pancake design is really on smaller bodies like the Olympus Pens or Panasonic GFs.
i'v just bought the sigma 19mm f2.8 dn which lack of image stabilization. do you think that for video a lens wide like that really need image stabilization?
Tecnovlog Possibly useful for stills where you might want to shoot at 1/8th second or slower but for video, no, on a 19mm stabilization isn't necessary..
As this review was done in 2013 - What would be the alternative lenses to look at in 2019? - I am interested in trying the 35mm FF range as opposed to the 50mm FF range and at times find the 20mm not wide enough. I use a G85/80 as my body primarily, although thinking of moving to the GX9 this year for portability reasons.
My long term favourite is the 17mm f/1.8 Olympus but I'm currently trying a 16mm f/1.4 Sigma which is bigger but an excellent lens. There's also a 16mm Sigma f/2.8, so slower but very sharp and excellent value for money. The GX9 and 17mm Olympus are my go to single lens outfit - superb performance married to compact form and feels great to use.
Thanks for taking the time to reply David. Greatly appreciated. I guess now that I think of it, none of the primes in this category have IS, so there isn't really an issue of mixing Olympus lenses and Panasonic bodies. - I did get into M4/3 for the concept of being able to mix and match, however that seems less and less likely moving forward due to the lack of image stabilization compatibility between the 2. Thanks again for the great knowledge you share. Definitely one of my favourite sources of information.
Excuse David for bothering you, today i got the 20mm mark I, but afc doesn't work at all! it should work in video mode but i cannot select it... i'm so frustrated
Tecnovlog If Quick AF is set ON in the Custom menu it will do that. Also, Eye Sensor AF on the same menu causes the lens to start focusing when you put your eye to the EVF. Maybe that's it?
As Nathan says, yes it does. It doesn't matter practically for stills but you can clearly hear it grinding away on video, so for video in a quiet environment, manual focus.
hi!! between this and the panasonic 25mm 1.7? are they exactly the same except for the focal lenght? or is the 25mm better? I want a fast prime for lowlight but for lanscape (shooting starred nights and milky way) im on a tight budget so im betweecn the panasonics 20 and 25mm 1.7 and the sigma 30mm 1.4
I think opinions are split here. For example Tony Northrup surely recommends the 20mm f1.7 for its sharpness. No recommendation for the 25mm f1.7 though ... xD
Thanks! I do, really. It focuses better and has the extra bit of aperture, though I prefer the 20mm focal length. I'd be inclined to look at the Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 at the same time.
Thanks. You should have pointed out on what body you're doing the AF test. I guess it's on the GX-7. I doesn't look like the display on my Olympus. I think the focus is even slower on Olympus bodies.
rolfen I've always found the Olympus and Panasonic focus times to be pretty much the same. This lens is reasonably quick under some circumstances, much less so under others. Yes, I'm using it with a GX7 here but I'd be surprised if it differed much with an Olympus.
David Thorpe It _is_ hard to tell - the differences are small in terms of time. For example, my 12-35,, zoom is fast focusing lens and I read that it is faster on the GH4 than the GX7. It probably is if you have the equipment to measure it but in use it makes no difference.
David Thorpe Part of the difficultly is that it focuses at different speeds depending on the light. So we need to have the exact same conditions to be able to tell for sure.
Hi, I have seen several models for Panasonic Lumix 20mm. Do you know what are the differences? H-H020, H-H020PP,H-H020AK,H-H020AS. What is the one you tested?
Hi Lemmy! If you were to chose this or the 17mm f1.8 from Olympus, which would it be? Based on overall performance and IQ? Ignoring the focal lengths and the hyper focal focussing on the M.Zuiko? I am torn between the two, mainly because this is £100 cheaper than the Olympus. Thanks
Andy_Curtis28 Hi Andy - It's have to be the 17mm on the basis that its focusing is much faster and more certain than the 20mm's, especially in low light. IQ of both is quite similar. Also, from a personal point of view, the 17mm just feels a lot nicer. But no question about it from my point of view.
First of all, I really like the 20mm focal length since the slightly wider angle than 25mm makes it just a little more flexible. It depends on what you want to do, of course but given one focal length on the camera, I'd prefer 20mm over 25. Is it worth the extra money? Difficult. The 20mm gives excellent IQ so I doubt many people would find the bit extra performance of the 25mm noticeable. The 25mm is rather big for an MFT lens. On the other hand, focusing is much faster and quieter, so the 25 is more suitable for video. And it has an extra half stop or so of speed. For me, the size and versatility of the 20mm makes it my choice. Judged on value for money overall, I'd say the 25mm is better value. It's never easy, is it?
No recommendation for the 14mm Panny pancake then versus the other lenses you mention? I was thinking about getting the wide angle converter for my 14mm lens to make it an 11mm lens, great for video. News: I read on personalview that the GH2 only has a crop factor of 1.86x, and not 2x, a bonus for the lenses I have. I cannot prove the accuracy of that statement however.
This is a nightmare area because the sensor can be 'cropped' to anything from 2:35:1 super wide to 4:3, so the angle is expressed differently according to where you measure it. The easiest assumption is that it is around 2x whatever. The 14mm is a very high performing lens available for silly low prices at the moment and a real bargain. The reason I don't mention the 14mm is that lenses from 17 to 20mm can be effectively used as general purpose lenses whereas a 14mm is a little too wide for that, just as 25mm is too long. That's just my opinion for my purposes. If someone finds that 14mm is good for their general purposes, then it is. I don't have any experience of front of lens converters - probably more use for video than stills but I'd want to try out any converter for a wide angle lens before buying it. My M43 Blog: m43blog.dthorpe.net
Thank you David. Have you any experience with remote flash triggers? I assume that the following product will do the job. I have got a cheap Metz flash for my MFT camera and the only way to get it to fire off camera is to use the pop-up flash in line-of-sight, which is not ideal if I only want extra light from the side. This is on my Christmas wishlist (cheaper than Pocket Wizard): www.amazon.co.uk/Aputure-Trigmaster-Trigger-Panasonic-DMC-FC100/dp/B004FLHGA2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385145511&sr=1-3-fkmr0&keywords=Yongnuo%20RF-603%20panasonic%20lumix#productDescription
BobToms100 I've just set up a Metz Metz 15 MS-1 flash for wireless triggering which works very well, if a bit complicated to get going. The system you mention, reviewers have it working so it should be ok but I haven't tried it. Looks ok in principle, though.
I like your shutter curtain idea to keep the dust out. I am enjoying my GH2 and need to do more film work. I can wholeheartedly recommend watching Darwinfish105"s and Samurai Filmworks" outstanding video efforts with GH2 and GH3 cameras and range of lenses (both on UA-cam). Fabulous views of Japan and Japanese culture.
Chungda mentioned this to me re. a flash for MFT Panasonic: " Well the YN560III works as its kinda a universal flash as work on any universal hotshot but they don't have a YN565 build for Panasonic as it has TTL or ETTL one and either Nikon or Canon. But if you want something to work with your GH2 its better to get the BOWER SFD926O which should work fine and is more affordable, but if you got slightly more to spend would go for METZ which has build for panasonic and have a nicer build and at least still cost much less than the Panasonic Lumix flash."
GREAT REVIEW AGAIN! I've tried both the older version of Sigma 19mm.f.2.8 and Panasonic 20mm.f.1.7, and my judgment is buy the Sigma because it is cheaper and better. What do you think David?
Thanks Jess. yes, if you don't particularly need the speed and small form of the Panasonic, the Sigma has better focusing and is just as sharp. It's not that much bigger, either.
Hi David - great work!! With a £500 budget on lenses for my new Pana GX80 what do you think of a combination of the Pana 42.5mm f1.7 and this 20mm pancake? I'm going to Peru and Japan so would like a combo that will work well for street/portrait/landscape. Feel free to tear that idea to shreds.
+Charles Do Amazon UK have them for £2.70. I don't know where you live but they'll be cheap anywhere. There's no maker marking but of you search on 46mm lens hood, it'll come up. I've used that on several leness, very handy.
Great review! Its weird that they couldn't improve basically just one thing everybody complained for - slow focusing.... how they can make cheap 14mm f 2,5 way faster in focusing then this lens that was already almost perfect! Its really pity since its such a comfortable focal length to me! I've had 1-st version but sold it because it felt too slow.... Well I think I will end up with Sigma 19 this time....
Lovely lenses the Sigmas. I never understood why Panasonic didn't update the focusing of the 20mm for the Mk 2 version. So many people like(d) the 20mm focal length.
Have you tried any vintage prime lenses on a GH2?! I'm looking at buying the Carl Zeiss Flektogon 4/20 Zebra lens. I want to get a nice wide angle film look. Do you know much about this lens?!
I didn't persue with that lens, a bit too pricey. I've been looking into cheaper vintage lenses. I bought the pentogon 35mm f1.5 the other week & it's excellent. Nice & sharp & good in low light. Looking to get a few more low light capability ones still, maybe Tamron or Vivitar auto wide 28mm ones. Just been doing some homework on UA-cam about them.
This is really helpful, I was looking at like M42 and FD mounts but they just don't have a great performance in low light, it's hard to get anything wide with less than 2.8 aperture, I will look into that.. thanks again
I despair sometimes when a non image stabilised lens is mildly slated, after all how have we managed for a century or more without it lol.didnt have it in my 126/110/35mm film days,more down to technique and practise ,as you say a lens that wide ,small,and light hardly needs it
The Olympus 14-42mm pancake zoom isn't one of their finest. The 20mm would bring out the inherent nice Olympus image quality better. But less versatile, of course. But then its much faster, Difficult decisions. If I were using the camera purely for my own photographic pleasure, I'd go with the 20mm. For use as a family/ holiday snapshot cameras as well, I suppose it would have to be the zoom.
@@DavidThorpeMFT Hello David...thanks for the valued info... now...is there a more universal lens which I could possibly get which could kinda marriage the two in one..affordably and with modest enough shots for a beginner/amaateur then..?
@@manirajaram3920 The nearest would be the 12-40mm f/2.8 Olympus. It's the best of all the standard zooms though describing it as affordable would be a stretch! But no, not really. Wide aperture and zoom come at a price, unfortunately.
@@DavidThorpeMFT Hello good day, thanks for the reply... I figured it wasn't going to be quite affordable...but since a merge of the two is somewhat possible..then the price has to be upped somewhat as well right... thanks for the much valued help..I'm still deciding on a toss up between the Panasonic lumix GX7 and the Olympus OMD EM10 Mark 2 , I hope both are new enough for me.. used ones are what I' looking in to...until I'm hopefully better knowledged and capable to upgrade in the near future...
I recently got this lens for my GH4, both for video and photos. I was hoping to find a new, old version since DXOMark rated it 1MP sharper than this version, but couldn't and so settled with this one. So far I have been quite pleased, the chromatic aberrations are low and I found it to be sharp throughout the image at f/4-f/8 and sharper overall, than my Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 ASPH lens. At first I thought the lack of stabilisation might be an issue since I shoot videos in places prone to wind, but because of the small size and weight of the lens, I haven't had much of an issue, with the exception of minor shake in strong wind which is only slightly noticeable in videos. I don't mind the focusing since I don't use this lens for shooting fast moving subjects and when shooting video I just set the focus switch to MF on the GH4 and press the focus button to focus on my subject and do any minor focus corrections manually. The only things I would have liked to have seen with this lens would have been faster auto focus and weather sealing.
That's interesting that it catches the wind less so makes stabilization less necessary under your conditions. I'd never have thought of that which is why reviews are never the entire truth.
here in Asia, this lens is actually significantly cheaper than the Olympus 25mm 1.8. Combined with the size and weight advantages, I think this'll be my first prime (asking for it as an Xmas gift)
I used to have the old pancake when I bought the GF1, but sold it to get a F1.4 25mm instead. But now since I've bought the GM1 with the zoom lens, I have to buy it again, since the F1.4 is too big on the GM1. Anyway I'm happy with it. Yes the focus is a bit slow as you said, but using the GM1 means it's for casual snapshots anyway. BTW, are you planning to do a review of the GM1?
The GM1, yes I'm hoping to have a look but it'll be a while before I can get hold of one. I also have an Olympus 17mm f1.8 at the moment - well worth a look and I have a feeling it's going to become a favourite, fast focus and good performance but a bit bigger than the Panasonic.
I'd love the 20mm f1.7 lens, but it's rather expensive. Personally, I'm hoping that this new revision brings down the price of the old ones a bit. Using the 14mm f2.5 for now.
Yes, it isn't cheap. The price would be fairer if the focusing had been upgraded. Good lens, the 14mm but just a bit short for general purpose use. My M43 Blog: m43blog.dthorpe.net/
Thank you i was interested in the 20 1.7 because of size and sharpness. But slow noisy focus is nothing i would be happy with, so i saved y self that experience. Question is what to get instead as a ultra compact walk around lens? Maybe the ultra small 12-35 zoom, but i guess it has variable aperture and no good in low light.
Suree it's not focusing as fast as other lenses out there, but in my experience it's fast enough to focus on 3-year-old running around the apartment, so good enough. Especially since it's much cheaper now (~1300PLN) compared to 15/1.7 or 17/1.8 which are around ~2300PLN now.
+AlaMaKac Good enough for the purpose is all you need with an piece of equipment, really. It's all a balance. One of the things brought up with me by FF users is the better quality of their images. True, but only under conditions that I never encounter, such as making prints over a metre wide. So Micro Four Thirds quality is good enough for my purposes, like your 20mm. Mostly better than we need, actually.
Hmm. DXOmark rates this lens lower than the original one, mostly in sharpness. I wonder how they downgraded both optically (even though its minimal) and in terms of AF :(
Timur Dzhambinov I couldn't tell any difference which is why I take scientific tests with a pinch of salt. It's not that they aren't correct, just that they don't tell me anything that relates to day to day photography.
The IQ of both is excellent and wouldn't be a factor in a buying decision. What would is the rather slow focusing and lack of video autofocus of the the 20mm. The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 or 15mm are better choices unless you really want the pancake design. Many photographers do, of course.
I have the G85 and 'm in doubt about getting the Olypus 17 1.8 or the Panasonic 20mm 1,7 My goal is to have something affordable, wide and fast for the low light indoor family shooting. Of the Olympus the manual focus clutch appeals to me, but I've seen another video that shows the 20mm is much sharper then the 17mm? The sound of the focussing motor is annoying too, but I think I'll use MF for video. Also should a second hand 20mm version 1 can be had for 200, and version 2 for 275,- Which would you choose? Thank you for your nice, thoughtful and useful reviews.
Thanks! The 20mm won't autofocus for video and is rather slow in stills by current standards. The design is quite old in Micro Four Thirds terms. The Olympus is much more modern and mine is just as sharp as the 20mm. There's a slight rustle/ click on mine when it focuses in video but that pretty common with Micro Four Thirds lenses. I particularly like the 17mm focal length for its versatility and overall I think it is the better choice.
i don't understand why, for canon a 50mm lens cost like 100$ instead for micro four third all the lenses around 20/25 mm cost a lot. the panasonic 20mm costs like 400 euro, that's insane for a basic prime lens!!!, luckily there is sigma in the market but 2.8 is not that fast
Tecnovlog Canon sell an awful lot of lenses worldwide, MFT far fewer so it is probably just economy of scale. Sigma sell their lenses in lots of different mounts, so probably sell more too. The 20mm is a stop and a half faster than the Sigma so is bound to cost more but nonetheless there's nothing like the Canon 50mm f1.8 at £75/ €100. If only!
Tecnovlog I can't see why what 'everyone' says matters. I bought into a camera system knowing what the lenses cost. It's no secret, all the prices are available. I can't see why they would be cheaper. It doesn't cost any less to make an MFT lens compared to a FF. I've never heard anyone say that MFT lenses are cheaper, myself. Smaller, yes, lighter, yes. Cheaper, no.
i bought a sigma 19mm dn lens but the continuous autofocus is a disaster, it tremble when it focus. i don't know what to do, i need continuous autofocus in my videos. this is a video that i made with the sigma ua-cam.com/video/PVOLHySHtr8/v-deo.html Thanks for you help P.S. i use an external microphone to record the audio
Tecnovlog I've not noticed that before but it looks to me as if the continuous AF is doing its job and refocusing as you move about. However, since you are close to the camera, the lens focusing movement has to be large and it is showing up on the out of focus areas. It looks like just one of those things to me. Ideally you wouldn't use autofocus for talking head shots like those, you stop the lens down far enough to cover your movements and use manual focus.
David Thorpe yes this should solve the problem but then if i show something to the camera that would be out of focus. Tomorrow i should get the panasonic 20mm, i payed it 360 euros
Tecnovlog I don't think the jittering would show up under many other conditions so you could use C-AF. Be interesting to see of the same thing happens with the 20mm - probably not.
It's certainly not slow in absolute terms, just slower than the later lenses. It's a shame Panasonic didn't see to that when they tarted the first version up to Mark 2. It's a useful versatile focal length and the focus speed isn't a reason not to buy it. It should be considered, though.
What is the point of this update? Change the body colour to all black, and make it a tad lighter. No image stabilization, no improvement in focusing speed. Just all black? Nice one Panasonic. It's fortunate that your not in the tablet and mobile phone business. Because you would get panned by the tech media. And rightly so. Even with all of it's short comings. The origonal 20mm pancake lens is my favourite lens. Thanks Panasonic, I'll spend my money on a new Android tablet.
When I read that they were bringing out a new version, someone on a forum said he hoped they would upgrade the focusing speed. I glibly replied that of course they would, what would be the point otherwise? Ho hum.....
2021 and I miss seeing new David Thorpe videos. Rest in peace my friend.
I miss this guy.
What happened
I went through the exif on all of my favorite photos I’ve taken over the last 10 years. It turned out over 90% were from the 20mm. After going through many lenses and bodies and even a time with the Fujifilm X series, I’m coming back to micro-43rds. My original setup was the GF1 and the 20. It was small, light, and unobtrusive - so I bought myself the Olympus OMD EM-10 Mk II and the Lumix 20 II to replicate the feeling I had with such a lightweight and effective setup! Thanks for reminding me how great micro-43rds is.
It's hard to credit that such a small and light combination can produce such image quality. That's the game changer with Micro Four Thirds, as you say. Thanks for such an enthusiastic take!
"Doesn't have a sweet spot because it doesn't have a sour spot" - classic Sir David Thorpe!!!
:-)
I am almost old myself and I have the old 20mm 1.7. We are a nice couple. I don't even think about up- or is it newgrading. I bought the pancake years ago, for an Olympus EPL-1. Now I use it on my Panasonic GX80 (85). I use it mostly for low light photography, just like your examples in pubs and so on. Otherwise I prefer the 14-140. But it's also good for all day shooting if you want to travel not too bulky and with more than acceptable results.
When I was young I always had to focus manually, and with this lens that not focusses always correct in low light, it feels good to be able to show my skills when necessary. 😂
As an ex press photographer, I am very aware that knowing your equipment is often more important than what it is. Modern auto systems are mind blowingly effective technically but they can't read your mind. When they falter or don't appear to be doing exactly what you intend, having your own skills comes into its own.
I find it most useful in extreme situations, where you cannot get enough depth of field to follow a moving subject, chasing kids running around, for example. Putting your 20mm on 2 metres or so and switching off auto focus will get more sharp frames than any auto-focus system. I suppose it is true of most things, the more you know, the better your skills, the better your work.
@@DavidThorpeMFT I agree Fran and David. I love using this lens on my GX85. I set one of my custom modes to back button focusing, with manual focus and focus peaking. I focus initially with the back button, then tweak it up in manual. I commonly get very sharp pictures. There's nothing like having a compact setup like this for everyday, general purpose use.
Thinking about getting one of these for the GH6...
Thanks David...another stellar review..!!
Cheers...
Thanks, Fred.
Should I buy this lens, or should I "wait" for the third iteration? If so, when... I couldn't find any info about the third version, hoping it has better auto focus.
Also does it come with a lens hood?
No, no lens hood. You can get cheap ones, though. I doubt Panasonic will update this lens now. They have the 15mm and the 25mm f1/7s, probably leave it at that.
David Thorpe Ah I see then, thanks. I guess I'll just get the 20 soon.
Whats the difference between the old and the new version?
Optically and mechanically they are identical. Some changes to the lens coating and cosmetics but no reason to upgrade that I can see.
Great review David as usual very helpful,can you tell me how close this lens will focus
Thanks, Robert. Pretty close focsuing, about 20cm.
THanks for your reply David is it abetter choice than the panasonic 25mm or oly 17mm for close focusing
@@robertlennon6923 The 20 (.2m) and 17mm (.25m) are similar, the Panasonic a bit further at .3m - about 2 inches in it but the 25mm will probably give a larger image.
@@DavidThorpeMFT thanks for your reply i was about to buy the 20mmmk2 but may now go for the 25mm
I opted for the Sigma 19mm f2.8 over this lens purely because of cost and the Sigma focus's faster. For the price of this lens I ended up getting the Sigma 19mm f2.8 and a Panasonic 14mm f2.5 which for me at least, was a better deal. Nice review and it confirmed that I made the correct choice even though optically this lens is superb.
would you recommend this lens for travel photography.... ie street and landscape?
I would, though depending on your requirements you may find the slow (by latest standards) focusing less than ideal. My own favourite is Olympus 17.. f/1/8, less pancake but still tiny.
Something I've noticed about this lens on Panasonic cameras: the continues auto focus is disabled and you are limited to standard or manual. This happens with my GH4 and GF5 too. I presume it is due to the slow focusing on this lens, which renders AFC meaningless anyway
I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Jaffar. It's the only Micro Four Thirds lens with such a limitation as far as I recall. The 20mm is a popular lens and I'd have thought Panasonic would have upgraded it by now. The second version was mainly a cosmetic upgrade apart from a lens coating change.
Excellent review. I like the appeal of the small size, but on a GH3 body you aren't really compact anyways.
Thanks. Yes, it's a good sharp lens whether it was big or small but the advantage of the pancake design is really on smaller bodies like the Olympus Pens or Panasonic GFs.
If buying used is the Mark 2 version of the Panasonic 20mm better then the Older version as the older version is cheaper used ?
The differences are cosmetic, optically and operationally they are identical, so personally, if the saving is worthwhile I'd buy the older one.
Thanks
Thanks for the reviews, you have a great practical perspective.
It's good to hear that - it's exactly what I aim to do.Thanks
i'v just bought the sigma 19mm f2.8 dn which lack of image stabilization. do you think that for video a lens wide like that really need image stabilization?
Tecnovlog Possibly useful for stills where you might want to shoot at 1/8th second or slower but for video, no, on a 19mm stabilization isn't necessary..
As this review was done in 2013 - What would be the alternative lenses to look at in 2019? - I am interested in trying the 35mm FF range as opposed to the 50mm FF range and at times find the 20mm not wide enough. I use a G85/80 as my body primarily, although thinking of moving to the GX9 this year for portability reasons.
My long term favourite is the 17mm f/1.8 Olympus but I'm currently trying a 16mm f/1.4 Sigma which is bigger but an excellent lens. There's also a 16mm Sigma f/2.8, so slower but very sharp and excellent value for money. The GX9 and 17mm Olympus are my go to single lens outfit - superb performance married to compact form and feels great to use.
Thanks for taking the time to reply David. Greatly appreciated. I guess now that I think of it, none of the primes in this category have IS, so there isn't really an issue of mixing Olympus lenses and Panasonic bodies. - I did get into M4/3 for the concept of being able to mix and match, however that seems less and less likely moving forward due to the lack of image stabilization compatibility between the 2. Thanks again for the great knowledge you share. Definitely one of my favourite sources of information.
Excuse David for bothering you, today i got the 20mm mark I, but afc doesn't work at all! it should work in video mode but i cannot select it... i'm so frustrated
my fault apparently even though the camera is in AFS and not AFC it does continuously autofocus
Tecnovlog If Quick AF is set ON in the Custom menu it will do that. Also, Eye Sensor AF on the same menu causes the lens to start focusing when you put your eye to the EVF. Maybe that's it?
David Thorpe i don't know but it works ua-cam.com/video/PaEL2MijOeo/v-deo.html
David does the old 20mm lens make noise in auto focus? Thanks!
I have it. It does make the same noise.
As Nathan says, yes it does. It doesn't matter practically for stills but you can clearly hear it grinding away on video, so for video in a quiet environment, manual focus.
hi!! between this and the panasonic 25mm 1.7? are they exactly the same except for the focal lenght? or is the 25mm better?
I want a fast prime for lowlight but for lanscape (shooting starred nights and milky way) im on a tight budget so im betweecn the panasonics 20 and 25mm 1.7 and the sigma 30mm 1.4
The 20mm's focusing is a bit iffy by latest standards and the Sigma is a bit too long for a general purpose lens. I'd go for the 25mm for sure.
Thank you very much for youe fast response !
I think opinions are split here. For example Tony Northrup surely recommends the 20mm f1.7 for its sharpness. No recommendation for the 25mm f1.7 though ... xD
At the level of sharpness of these lenses differences are academic. Unless you habitually shoot pictures of test charts, of course :-)
Hi David you think the extra bucks for Panasonic Leica 25mm f1.4 worth it? TIA, great review as always.
Thanks! I do, really. It focuses better and has the extra bit of aperture, though I prefer the 20mm focal length. I'd be inclined to look at the Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 at the same time.
David Thorpe thank you 😊, im considering the panasonic 25 1.7 now, im not that everyday shooter 😄
Thanks.
You should have pointed out on what body you're doing the AF test. I guess it's on the GX-7. I doesn't look like the display on my Olympus.
I think the focus is even slower on Olympus bodies.
rolfen I've always found the Olympus and Panasonic focus times to be pretty much the same. This lens is reasonably quick under some circumstances, much less so under others. Yes, I'm using it with a GX7 here but I'd be surprised if it differed much with an Olympus.
David Thorpe I'm under the impression that it's slower on my Olympus E-PM2 but I'm not sure. It's hard to tell.
David Thorpe It _is_ hard to tell - the differences are small in terms of time. For example, my 12-35,, zoom is fast focusing lens and I read that it is faster on the GH4 than the GX7. It probably is if you have the equipment to measure it but in use it makes no difference.
David Thorpe Part of the difficultly is that it focuses at different speeds depending on the light. So we need to have the exact same conditions to be able to tell for sure.
rolfen True. But in the end, is it fast enough for what you want to do? I'm not convinced that anything else matters.
Hi, I have seen several models for Panasonic Lumix 20mm. Do you know what are the differences? H-H020, H-H020PP,H-H020AK,H-H020AS. What is the one you tested?
gerardo montemayor Garcia H-H020AK is the one David tested. The "A" means version 2, "K" means black, "S" for silver.
Hi Lemmy!
If you were to chose this or the 17mm f1.8 from Olympus, which would it be? Based on overall performance and IQ? Ignoring the focal lengths and the hyper focal focussing on the M.Zuiko?
I am torn between the two, mainly because this is £100 cheaper than the Olympus.
Thanks
Andy_Curtis28 Hi Andy - It's have to be the 17mm on the basis that its focusing is much faster and more certain than the 20mm's, especially in low light. IQ of both is quite similar. Also, from a personal point of view, the 17mm just feels a lot nicer. But no question about it from my point of view.
David Thorpe Fantastic, I actually ended up ordering the 17mm yesterday. Cannot wait for it to arrive. Thanks!
Andy_Curtis28 In the long run it'll probably work out cheaper than the 20mm because you are unlikely to ever want to get rid of it.
Another useful review, thanks David.
Thanks!
Is the PL 25mm f1.4 worth the price compared to the 20mm? Do you find the 40mm equivalent of this lens useful?
First of all, I really like the 20mm focal length since the slightly wider angle than 25mm makes it just a little more flexible. It depends on what you want to do, of course but given one focal length on the camera, I'd prefer 20mm over 25.
Is it worth the extra money? Difficult. The 20mm gives excellent IQ so I doubt many people would find the bit extra performance of the 25mm noticeable. The 25mm is rather big for an MFT lens. On the other hand, focusing is much faster and quieter, so the 25 is more suitable for video. And it has an extra half stop or so of speed.
For me, the size and versatility of the 20mm makes it my choice. Judged on value for money overall, I'd say the 25mm is better value. It's never easy, is it?
No recommendation for the 14mm Panny pancake then versus the other lenses you mention? I was thinking about getting the wide angle converter for my 14mm lens to make it an 11mm lens, great for video. News: I read on personalview that the GH2 only has a crop factor of 1.86x, and not 2x, a bonus for the lenses I have. I cannot prove the accuracy of that statement however.
This is a nightmare area because the sensor can be 'cropped' to anything from 2:35:1 super wide to 4:3, so the angle is expressed differently according to where you measure it. The easiest assumption is that it is around 2x whatever.
The 14mm is a very high performing lens available for silly low prices at the moment and a real bargain. The reason I don't mention the 14mm is that lenses from 17 to 20mm can be effectively used as general purpose lenses whereas a 14mm is a little too wide for that, just as 25mm is too long. That's just my opinion for my purposes. If someone finds that 14mm is good for their general purposes, then it is. I don't have any experience of front of lens converters - probably more use for video than stills but I'd want to try out any converter for a wide angle lens before buying it.
My M43 Blog: m43blog.dthorpe.net
Thank you David. Have you any experience with remote flash triggers? I assume that the following product will do the job. I have got a cheap Metz flash for my MFT camera and the only way to get it to fire off camera is to use the pop-up flash in line-of-sight, which is not ideal if I only want extra light from the side. This is on my Christmas wishlist (cheaper than Pocket Wizard): www.amazon.co.uk/Aputure-Trigmaster-Trigger-Panasonic-DMC-FC100/dp/B004FLHGA2/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385145511&sr=1-3-fkmr0&keywords=Yongnuo%20RF-603%20panasonic%20lumix#productDescription
BobToms100 I've just set up a Metz Metz 15 MS-1 flash for wireless triggering which works very well, if a bit complicated to get going. The system you mention, reviewers have it working so it should be ok but I haven't tried it. Looks ok in principle, though.
I like your shutter curtain idea to keep the dust out. I am enjoying my GH2 and need to do more film work. I can wholeheartedly recommend watching Darwinfish105"s and Samurai Filmworks" outstanding video efforts with GH2 and GH3 cameras and range of lenses (both on UA-cam). Fabulous views of Japan and Japanese culture.
Chungda mentioned this to me re. a flash for MFT Panasonic: "
Well the YN560III works as its kinda a universal flash as work on any universal hotshot but they don't have a YN565 build for Panasonic as it has TTL or ETTL one and either Nikon or Canon. But if you want something to work with your GH2 its better to get the BOWER SFD926O which should work fine and is more affordable, but if you got slightly more to spend would go for METZ which has build for panasonic and have a nicer build and at least still cost much less than the Panasonic Lumix flash."
is the new one better?
GREAT REVIEW AGAIN! I've tried both the older version of Sigma 19mm.f.2.8 and Panasonic 20mm.f.1.7, and my judgment is buy the Sigma because it is cheaper and better. What do you think David?
Thanks Jess. yes, if you don't particularly need the speed and small form of the Panasonic, the Sigma has better focusing and is just as sharp. It's not that much bigger, either.
Hi David - great work!! With a £500 budget on lenses for my new Pana GX80 what do you think of a combination of the Pana 42.5mm f1.7 and this 20mm pancake? I'm going to Peru and Japan so would like a combo that will work well for street/portrait/landscape. Feel free to tear that idea to shreds.
Josh Coombe Get a 20mm 1.7 and the 14-140. A much more versatile combination, imo.
Where did you get the lens hood for the 20mm f1.7?
I can't find one anywhere to save my life.
+Charles Do Amazon UK have them for £2.70. I don't know where you live but they'll be cheap anywhere. There's no maker marking but of you search on 46mm lens hood, it'll come up. I've used that on several leness, very handy.
Great review! Its weird that they couldn't improve basically just one thing everybody complained for - slow focusing.... how they can make cheap 14mm f 2,5 way faster in focusing then this lens that was already almost perfect! Its really pity since its such a comfortable focal length to me! I've had 1-st version but sold it because it felt too slow.... Well I think I will end up with Sigma 19 this time....
Lovely lenses the Sigmas. I never understood why Panasonic didn't update the focusing of the 20mm for the Mk 2 version. So many people like(d) the 20mm focal length.
Have you tried any vintage prime lenses on a GH2?! I'm looking at buying the Carl Zeiss Flektogon 4/20 Zebra lens. I want to get a nice wide angle film look. Do you know much about this lens?!
No, never had time to get into vintage primes but I'd love to. Just need another lifetime!
Did you find out much more about that lens? I am also interested in legacy lenses and am searching for the perfect fast wide lens for my GH4
I didn't persue with that lens, a bit too pricey. I've been looking into cheaper vintage lenses. I bought the pentogon 35mm f1.5 the other week & it's excellent. Nice & sharp & good in low light. Looking to get a few more low light capability ones still, maybe Tamron or Vivitar auto wide 28mm ones. Just been doing some homework on UA-cam about them.
This is really helpful, I was looking at like M42 and FD mounts but they just don't have a great performance in low light, it's hard to get anything wide with less than 2.8 aperture, I will look into that.. thanks again
I can't find the pentogon 35mm f1.5 anywhere, where did you get it? I don't even know where to look?
I despair sometimes when a non image stabilised lens is mildly slated, after all how have we managed for a century or more without it lol.didnt have it in my 126/110/35mm film days,more down to technique and practise ,as you say a lens that wide ,small,and light hardly needs it
That's right. I like (need!) stabilization on long lenses these day but for wide angle to short tele lenses it's not crucial at all.
i wonder how this lumix20mm compares to OMs newest 20mm
SO what's the opinion for the olympus omd em10 mark 2 with the lumix 20mm or should I just stick with the olympus 14-42 mm...anyone..?
The Olympus 14-42mm pancake zoom isn't one of their finest. The 20mm would bring out the inherent nice Olympus image quality better. But less versatile, of course. But then its much faster, Difficult decisions. If I were using the camera purely for my own photographic pleasure, I'd go with the 20mm. For use as a family/ holiday snapshot cameras as well, I suppose it would have to be the zoom.
@@DavidThorpeMFT Hello David...thanks for the valued info... now...is there a more universal lens which I could possibly get which could kinda marriage the two in one..affordably and with modest enough shots for a beginner/amaateur then..?
@@manirajaram3920 The nearest would be the 12-40mm f/2.8 Olympus. It's the best of all the standard zooms though describing it as affordable would be a stretch! But no, not really. Wide aperture and zoom come at a price, unfortunately.
@@DavidThorpeMFT Hello good day, thanks for the reply... I figured it wasn't going to be quite affordable...but since a merge of the two is somewhat possible..then the price has to be upped somewhat as well right... thanks for the much valued help..I'm still deciding on a toss up between the Panasonic lumix GX7 and the Olympus OMD EM10 Mark 2 , I hope both are new enough for me.. used ones are what I' looking in to...until I'm hopefully better knowledged and capable to upgrade in the near future...
@@manirajaram3920 you sound like you're going to enjoy the process of choosing and you'll certainly enjoy using either camera - that's what counts!
I recently got this lens for my GH4, both for video and photos. I was hoping to find a new, old version since DXOMark rated it 1MP sharper than this version, but couldn't and so settled with this one. So far I have been quite pleased, the chromatic aberrations are low and I found it to be sharp throughout the image at f/4-f/8 and sharper overall, than my Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 ASPH lens. At first I thought the lack of stabilisation might be an issue since I shoot videos in places prone to wind, but because of the small size and weight of the lens, I haven't had much of an issue, with the exception of minor shake in strong wind which is only slightly noticeable in videos.
I don't mind the focusing since I don't use this lens for shooting fast moving subjects and when shooting video I just set the focus switch to MF on the GH4 and press the focus button to focus on my subject and do any minor focus corrections manually. The only things I would have liked to have seen with this lens would have been faster auto focus and weather sealing.
That's interesting that it catches the wind less so makes stabilization less necessary under your conditions. I'd never have thought of that which is why reviews are never the entire truth.
here in Asia, this lens is actually significantly cheaper than the Olympus 25mm 1.8. Combined with the size and weight advantages, I think this'll be my first prime (asking for it as an Xmas gift)
The only downside of the 20 is the focusing which is less sure than more modern designs. Apart from that it is a fine lens.
I used to have the old pancake when I bought the GF1, but sold it to get a F1.4 25mm instead. But now since I've bought the GM1 with the zoom lens, I have to buy it again, since the F1.4 is too big on the GM1. Anyway I'm happy with it. Yes the focus is a bit slow as you said, but using the GM1 means it's for casual snapshots anyway.
BTW, are you planning to do a review of the GM1?
The GM1, yes I'm hoping to have a look but it'll be a while before I can get hold of one. I also have an Olympus 17mm f1.8 at the moment - well worth a look and I have a feeling it's going to become a favourite, fast focus and good performance but a bit bigger than the Panasonic.
Again, great honest review. I own the original, and I shouldn't get this new one, but the all black lens just keeps calling me...
Wish they'd make it just slightly bigger, with better AF and maybe a tiny bit faster - should be doable, right?
It should, Jenny and they could have done it when they made the Mk2 version. I don't think they will now, a great shame.
another pro review very clear !
Agree: excellent lens, pleasant 40mm perspective, but... indeed, the whining sound of focusing is odd.
I'd love the 20mm f1.7 lens, but it's rather expensive. Personally, I'm hoping that this new revision brings down the price of the old ones a bit. Using the 14mm f2.5 for now.
Yes, it isn't cheap. The price would be fairer if the focusing had been upgraded. Good lens, the 14mm but just a bit short for general purpose use.
My M43 Blog: m43blog.dthorpe.net/
Lol, you did a type-0 in the video title, " Lumix 20mm f.7" did sound a bit slow :-)
:-)
a bit slow or a bit fast :p
Thank you i was interested in the 20 1.7 because of size and sharpness. But slow noisy focus is nothing i would be happy with, so i saved y self that experience. Question is what to get instead as a ultra compact walk around lens? Maybe the ultra small 12-35 zoom, but i guess it has variable aperture and no good in low light.
It's not ultra compact bet nevertheless very small, the Olympus 17mm f/1.8, one of my favourite and much used lenses.
Suree it's not focusing as fast as other lenses out there, but in my experience it's fast enough to focus on 3-year-old running around the apartment, so good enough. Especially since it's much cheaper now (~1300PLN) compared to 15/1.7 or 17/1.8 which are around ~2300PLN now.
+AlaMaKac Good enough for the purpose is all you need with an piece of equipment, really. It's all a balance. One of the things brought up with me by FF users is the better quality of their images. True, but only under conditions that I never encounter, such as making prints over a metre wide. So Micro Four Thirds quality is good enough for my purposes, like your 20mm. Mostly better than we need, actually.
it is not possible to fix autofocus on this lens without increasing its size, because of its large, heavy lens elements.
Hmm. DXOmark rates this lens lower than the original one, mostly in sharpness. I wonder how they downgraded both optically (even though its minimal) and in terms of AF :(
Timur Dzhambinov I couldn't tell any difference which is why I take scientific tests with a pinch of salt. It's not that they aren't correct, just that they don't tell me anything that relates to day to day photography.
Dxo isn't scientific because they have a sample size of one. You're witnessing sample variation between almost identical lenses.
Great review. Seems like saving and splurging for the 25mm 1.4 is the way to go
If you don't mind the extra size, it's a great lens.
Is the image quality of this the same as Leica 15mm 1.7?
The IQ of both is excellent and wouldn't be a factor in a buying decision. What would is the rather slow focusing and lack of video autofocus of the the 20mm. The Olympus 17mm f/1.8 or 15mm are better choices unless you really want the pancake design. Many photographers do, of course.
I have the G85 and 'm in doubt about getting the Olypus 17 1.8 or the Panasonic 20mm 1,7
My goal is to have something affordable, wide and fast for the low light indoor family shooting. Of the Olympus the manual focus clutch appeals to me, but I've seen another video that shows the 20mm is much sharper then the 17mm? The sound of the focussing motor is annoying too, but I think I'll use MF for video.
Also should a second hand 20mm version 1 can be had for 200, and version 2 for 275,- Which would you choose?
Thank you for your nice, thoughtful and useful reviews.
Thanks! The 20mm won't autofocus for video and is rather slow in stills by current standards. The design is quite old in Micro Four Thirds terms. The Olympus is much more modern and mine is just as sharp as the 20mm. There's a slight rustle/ click on mine when it focuses in video but that pretty common with Micro Four Thirds lenses. I particularly like the 17mm focal length for its versatility and overall I think it is the better choice.
Thank you David!
francesco marullo Thanks you francesco.
don't think i'll be getting the new one! nice review though. this and the 14-140 is my perfect family holiday combo
Pete Duxon Thanks Pete. No, no point in shelling out for this one over the old one if you already have it. Great combination, super-zoom and pancake.
i don't understand why, for canon a 50mm lens cost like 100$ instead for micro four third all the lenses around 20/25 mm cost a lot. the panasonic 20mm costs like 400 euro, that's insane for a basic prime lens!!!, luckily there is sigma in the market but 2.8 is not that fast
Tecnovlog Canon sell an awful lot of lenses worldwide, MFT far fewer so it is probably just economy of scale. Sigma sell their lenses in lots of different mounts, so probably sell more too. The 20mm is a stop and a half faster than the Sigma so is bound to cost more but nonetheless there's nothing like the Canon 50mm f1.8 at £75/ €100. If only!
David Thorpe so why everyone say that micro four third lenses are cheaper, when they're not?
Tecnovlog I can't see why what 'everyone' says matters. I bought into a camera system knowing what the lenses cost. It's no secret, all the prices are available. I can't see why they would be cheaper. It doesn't cost any less to make an MFT lens compared to a FF. I've never heard anyone say that MFT lenses are cheaper, myself. Smaller, yes, lighter, yes. Cheaper, no.
David Thorpe ok so i got tricked, i saw a lot of video and a lot of people said that full frame lenses are expensive compared to crop sensor's cameras
i bought a sigma 19mm dn lens but the continuous autofocus is a disaster, it tremble when it focus. i don't know what to do, i need continuous autofocus in my videos.
this is a video that i made with the sigma
ua-cam.com/video/PVOLHySHtr8/v-deo.html
Thanks for you help
P.S. i use an external microphone to record the audio
Tecnovlog I've not noticed that before but it looks to me as if the continuous AF is doing its job and refocusing as you move about. However, since you are close to the camera, the lens focusing movement has to be large and it is showing up on the out of focus areas. It looks like just one of those things to me. Ideally you wouldn't use autofocus for talking head shots like those, you stop the lens down far enough to cover your movements and use manual focus.
David Thorpe yes this should solve the problem but then if i show something to the camera that would be out of focus. Tomorrow i should get the panasonic 20mm, i payed it 360 euros
Tecnovlog I don't think the jittering would show up under many other conditions so you could use C-AF. Be interesting to see of the same thing happens with the 20mm - probably not.
David Thorpe i hope not, also because i didn't have any problem with my 14-42 kit lens
On my G9 I would not say the focus speed is slow
It's certainly not slow in absolute terms, just slower than the later lenses. It's a shame Panasonic didn't see to that when they tarted the first version up to Mark 2. It's a useful versatile focal length and the focus speed isn't a reason not to buy it. It should be considered, though.
What is the point of this update? Change the body colour to all black, and make it a tad lighter. No image stabilization, no improvement in focusing speed. Just all black? Nice one Panasonic. It's fortunate that your not in the tablet and mobile phone business. Because you would get panned by the tech media. And rightly so. Even with all of it's short comings. The origonal 20mm pancake lens is my favourite lens. Thanks Panasonic, I'll spend my money on a new Android tablet.
When I read that they were bringing out a new version, someone on a forum said he hoped they would upgrade the focusing speed. I glibly replied that of course they would, what would be the point otherwise? Ho hum.....
Good news. The price of this lens is plunging i.e. now
datapro007 Shame on you! The price is being reduced as a thank you from the shops and manufacturers to their valued customers, I am sure. :-)
David Thorpe Hi, David, I want to let you know how much I enjoy your videos, both for your insights and humor. I have learned a lot.
datapro007 Great to hear than - thanks!
Making bread
Indeed the focus of the Pana. 20 , 1,7 is very, very bad. Especially in low light. ;((
It's a real shame Panasonic haven't updated it. Leave the optics alone, just the AF.