I have never owned an Alpha 7. They are built very lightweight, so it is good to check them regularly for any damage, especially if you hit big potholes or bumps. This is what I have heard from people that owned an Alpha 7.
Lots of DF's still on the road. The biggest difference between a DF and the current offerings is really just handling at high speed and in wind. The top new models have all made changes to help address that issue. That was a problem with the Quest as well. It's fascinating to see the development over time. Designs keep getting better and better.
Definetly progress has been accomplished and still will be. Higher speed is saying 35 mph and above. With cruising speed around 30 mph there's no issue, and for the rest it remains handling, adding to the challenge driving velomobiles always includes. Take care.
I'd say that there's no problem with handling, with the new altered steering components (a couple years ago). Steering feels more peaceful now. DF has proved to be a very reliable velomobile also. In my four seasons of riding (12000 km total) there's only been a need for basic maintenance, changing new tires etc. Still, I've done some modification with my DFxl. There's an extra layer of carbon fibre on the suspension attachment points, because of the bad roads, potholes and stuff. And now, the drive train is the fluidest possible a velomobile can have, because I made both wider rear idler cover and axle to allow side movement for the idler, along with the changing position of the chain. And I don't have a chain tubing on the power side of the chain either. Feels wonderfully friction-less now 👍
My experience is with a 15 year old fiberglass Quest (gathering dust in the garage). The aero is decent, but the weight always killed me. I'd like to think it would be very noticeable to ride a velo that's 10kg lighter. Picking from the list, my speedy racer side would like the Bulk mk1, but would probably go with the Bulk Urban. curious what the speed difference is at ~150w. Or if there's much difference in how they handle crosswinds; open vs closed front wheels.
This really depends on the terrain. If you are in a hilly area or a city with a lot of start and stop, the difference in speed won't be as large. If you are in a fairly flat area, then you will notice some difference. I'm not sure how much. Perhaps 5%? I've not really tested the speed difference. The MK1 might handle a tiny bit better in wind, but both seem quite good in my experience. I personally prefer the mk1 because it is a bit faster and I have some nice areas where I can take advantage of the speed here. Both are miles ahead of even the carbon fiber Quest. The difference compared to a fiberglass Quest would be significant. Those Quests are not just heavy. They also have a lot of flex which costs a ton of watts. I had a carbon Quest XS. I hated climbing hills in it. With the MK1 I have no issue with hills. The weight is about 5lbs difference, but the difference in stiffness is massive.
@@Bigboy4018 I meant a velomobiel of a different model. The QV will be back. They are planning to make some updates to it while they work to find a new producer for it.
QV is my most favorite for my needs. I’m not a speed demon i just like to option to carrying my cargo with ease everywhere i go. I do have a question. My lady is 5’2. She doesn’t like snoek becuase is more reclined. What would you recommend for short riders that like to sit in the upright and not as reclined?
At 5'2" she should have quite an upright position in many velomobiles. I would suggest checking the Urban and 4More. I would not buy one without a test ride first since she is fairly short. Both should allow a far enough forward seating position for her legs to reach the pedals. As for cargo capacity, the majority of velomobiles can have a trailer hitch installed. Then you have lots of cargo capacity, but only have the extra weight when you need it. I'm also surprised by just how much I can fit in the Buelk velomobiles. I've never run out of space for groceries yet.
@@wimh4301 4 of those are no longer in production (or will be out of production very soon), and the DF has had so few orders the last couple years, it essentially is also out of production.
@@wimh4301 I don’t recall precisely when it was announced the quest, Strada, and quest xs went out of production, but it was quite close to the beginning of the year. And you can’t order them now anyway, but then that is also true at the moment for the QV, so one could argue it doesn’t belong on my list, and that would be a fair point. Our lists definitely prioritize different points. You’re top two fit only a small portion of the population and are purely speed oriented. I went with the most practical models that fit the largest range of riders, though the Bülk MK1 is no slouch know the speed department. It’s quite close in aerodynamic efficiency to the SL and Snoek. Im curious why you rank the Tuna so high? It’s sold quite poorly.
@@mnveloguy First of all, it's MY list ;-) The Tuna is a DF with pants. Very fast, suitable for many riders and not very sensitive to crosswinds. That's why the Tuna is so high on my list. I don't think the Bülk is suitable at all for riders of about 1.75m. Way too bulky and way too wide at the shoulders. I wobble in all directions.
@@wimh4301 you are actually taller than I am. I am 1.68 and pretty skinny. I use thick shoulder pads, but I fit the Bülk better than the Quest XS which was also too wide in the shoulders. Everyone has different tastes. My ranking also is looking at the options from the perspective of the general public rather than what I would personally choose. I’m ranking based on efficiency, ease of setup, ease of maintenance access, practicality, etc. For me the Urban and 4More offer everything the Tuna does without the tiny front wheels that I have serious misgivings about. Everyone is looking for different things.
It could even by your pre-retirement second car! Plus, the sooner you get riding a lot , the better your chances of having a long a prosperous retirement. At least that's how I justify it.
Thanks for the upload. It is interesting to hear the feature comparisons. I think it is also important to know about the safety features of the various models as these machines are vehicles that can travel at high speeds with their precious cargo. For instance, I know that Daniel Fenn has pointed out some of the features of his Alpha series, learned from experience, from his own and other peoples' crashes. He talks about protection to the rider's face and head afforded by the wide shoulders of the Alpha shell if it should happen to roll over. The use of glass fibre in the nose and in front of the driver's face for shock protection/absorption in a crash. The extra reinforcement behind the rider's head. The use of glass fibre tank steering arms to prevent injury. I think he believes it is very important to keep the rider inside the vehicle should it tip or roll, hence I believe he does not endorse the large entrance opening of the Milan and Bulk designs. I saw police photographs of an accident where a Milan was in a collision with a car. Sadly the rider lost his life. It was evident that the velomobile had rolled and he was ejected /separated in the process. I saw another video from Germany where a famous dealer had a garage full of crashed velomobiles, with all sorts of dreadful damage visible, notably much shattered carbon (I forget his name now but I can find the video in a few mins if need be). Here, you have compared features and made some anecdotal points with sales numbers, so The Bulk comes out as your top pick while the Alpha series seems to come across as not quite the favourite because of its more finicky fitting setup. However, I would like to know more about these machines in terms of the protection they offer. I completely understand that this could be far more difficult to assess and yet I contend that any Top 10 should include some thoughts on safe design as a priority. Thanks again for all your uploads!
@@nicksutton2964 the Bülk also has extensive safety features. There is a lengthy write-up covering that and the design as a whole on the Velomobile World Website. That was also part of the thought with the modular design. I know I’ve covered the safety aspect in some of my other videos about the Bülk and rider safety. Different designers take a different approach. Daniel thinks a fixed seat is better in a crash. The Bülk Team thinks having the seat sitting free on a stack of foam pads is better because the energy won’t transfer as strongly. The Bülk uses padded headrests. The Alphas have a hard surface. The Bülk has padded shoulder rests over the rider shoulders. The Alphas have a curved rim which is quite hard when your shoulders bang into it. There are design elements of the front end as well that prevent things like the front frame from being pushed back towards the rider. The carbon is layer up with a layer of Innegra between in critical areas to prevent the carbon from shattering. The Bülk Team studied all known crashes when designing the Bülk. Those are the only two lines of Velomobiles I know that are specifically safety designed. I would imagine there must be some safety considerations with the velo.nl designs, but they have not publicized anything about it.
@@mnveloguy so do you think the Bulk is the safest then? Doesn't the Alpha also use Innegra sandwich construction? I think it is still early days. We are seeing new ideas being tested and refined all the time. People report their experiences to the best of their abilities and there are no agreed safety standards for velomobiles (yes?no?) and it is unlikely that they will materialize any time soon.
@@nicksutton2964 it’s purely my personal opinion, but I think the safety designs of the Bülk make more sense to me from an engineering standpoint. I applaud both developers for focusing on this area. Velomobiles are quite well-refined now in the stiffness and aerodynamics areas. I think safety and maintenance access are the next areas we will see development and refinement in.
@@nicksutton2964 I have both. I can't comment on the construction, but I can comment from personal experience. Both need to fit right to be safe. That's the starting point. When correctly fitted, both stop the body from coming forward in a sudden stop accident. They do it with foam pad in the rim of the cockpit that your shoulder hit if thrust forward. The W9 has a seat that's bolted in, while the Bülk seat can pop out. Theoretically, at least, that means the W9 is more sure to catch you while you can slide under the shoulder stops in the Bülk, if the seat gets loose. But there's a safety downside, too. The seat in the W9 is very limited. It won't fit you. It will just get as close as you can. That, in its own right, is less safe than the Bülk, which can be adjusted to fit just about any rider. They're made, as far as I know, of the same material. The W9 is lighter, but that's because it's thinner. It really is thinner is some places that stand out, like the bridge you put your feet on to get in and get out. That, in its own right, indicates that there's less wall between you and the accident, and thus less safety. Here's one other safety issue, also discussed above. The W9 is just flat out not stable in cross-winds at medium to high speeds (anything over about 28 mph). The Bülk is a rock. And velos go more than 28 mph, even if you're not trying to go fast. Just go down a bridge and look at your speedo. That means the W9 is ALWAYS more dangerous than the Bülk, every time you go out for a ride.
Thanks for the comparison. How big is the difference in speed between the Urban and Bülk if you only consider the two open wheel arches? Is the difference really that noticeable at speeds over 50 km/h?
I don't have a specific number. My testing course has been flooded much of the summer and is now blocked by road construction. Maybe 5%? I do notice some reduction in speed in places where I'd be riding above 25mph. Really depends on the riding situation. If you have a lot of tight turns or a really twisty riding area where you'd be going down hills at higher speeds, then the wider track can compensate for some of the speed loss. Either way, both bikes are way faster on the flat and downhill than an upright bike and a lot more comfortable. That said, my primary ride is the mk1. I ride almost entirely on road with rolling hills where the higher speed potential of the mk1 comes into play. I use the Urban mainly for running errands and commuting during the school year where I have a lot of stop and go and corners to negotiate.
@@15a86 we will see if an MK2 comes, and if it does, what features it might have. My new Urban will be here in about 3 weeks. Then I can do some hill climb comparisons to the MK1 and see if the larger access hatch has an impact on stiffness. The Urbans I’ve ridden so far all had the smaller front hatch. Convenience is nice, but stiffness is more important.
Thanks for this top 10. Could you tell me what the speed difference is between the Snoek and the Bulk MK1 on the flat and what the weight difference is? thank's
@@ericguerber weight is very similar if outfitted with the same components. Speed difference between most of these models doesn’t show up until you are around 50km/h. Then you start to see some difference. I’m not sure how much because I’ve never tested both back to back and don’t know of anyone that has. The Bülk can take corners faster and I’ve been told it is a bit stiffer as well, so some of that speed difference might be made up accelerating and cornering. There is also the practical aspect. The Snoek maintenance access is much less convenient. The Snoek has less cargo capacity, and it’s a lot more Wind sensitive and not as stable at high speed.
Common knowledge is that a Snoek smokes any Bülk. Ben's also knows this. Recent info shows that the Snoek-L is also faster. So when you want speed first, Snoek is the best choice. Ben does not sell Snoek or Snoek-L and has never ridden one. Weight is about the same give or take a kilo.
@@hoekie3652 did you actually read my answer? For most people it’s irrelevant which is more aerodynamically efficient because they don’t fit in the Snoek. Even the Snoek L is pretty narrow at the shoulders. The Snoek L I would expect to be the same speed as the Bülk, but I don’t know of any truly scientific comparison that’s been done. To conclusively answer this question is not simple. There are so many factors with rolling resistance, wind, drivetrain efficiency, and our own variances as humans when riding.
@@mnveloguy I edited my post. It was a bit harsh first. And yes, Snoek-L and Bülk comparison have been done already. I love your enthusiasm, but perhaps you should just talk about what you know and sell.
@@hoekie3652 the comparison that I know of between Bülk and Snoek L was not quite as rigorous as I would like to see. Variables have to be carefully controlled and multiple repetitions done to eliminate variance. I was asked what I thought the speed difference was. I gave my answer and opinion and clearly stated that I do not know the precise difference. Frankly I don’t think it matters. They are all very efficient. I think there are more critical parameters than speed difference and I stated what I thought those were. I also was very clear at the beginning of this video that this is my opinion about models. Anyone can upload a video to UA-cam. If your views differ from mine, which appears to be the case, then by all means make a video stating your case and promote it.
@@rickhoran not in production anymore. The QV was even borderline to be on this list because it currently has paused production, but I know the intent is to get it going again and remaining orders are being filled. The Orca also was mainly outfitted with e-assist due to its weight, so it wouldn’t have made the list anyway. I think it’s been out of production for several years now. It’s rare to even see them available used.
Wow! Awesome machines! Some are 70 lbs???? These are asking to become VTOL personal transportation vehicles! If I had a surplus of cash, i’d buy in to this lifestyle vehicle-
@@yaksauce the 4More has a starting price of $6000USD. You can also find used ones. Right now I know of several DF’s for around $5000 and a Quest in Florida for $3799 a friend of mine is selling. For what you save in gas, healthcare costs, and insurance, especially in a multi-car household, it quickly becomes worth the investment.
Have a touring trike, Put a motor on it as too slow for my liking climbing hills which can be dangerous if the hill is at traffic lights or at temporary lights for roadworks up a hill. A velomobile is quite a bit heavier so would be even worse, particualry since you tend to go for higher gearing. Can't see a velomobile being practical in a hilly place like scotland without a motor. Getting a 2nd trike, a sports one, the ICE VTX rather than a velomobile, due to worse climbing ability of a velo due to it's weight and the fact that in most velo videos, the velo gets 1 or more punctures which I assume will be harder to fix. On a trike you can lean into corners, I doubt that you can on a velo to any degree. Spenind £6400 on the trike, a velo as far as I know is £10000+ which is too much.
@@DemiGod.. have you ever ridden a velomobile? It’s easy to make assumptions, but that doesn’t mean they accurately reflect reality. I have never liked climbing with any of the recumbent bikes or trikes I owned. I needed very low gearing on all of them. My Bülk MK1 and the W9 I had were a night and day difference from climbing with the other recumbents I’ve had. Both are super stiff and transferred all of my pedal power to the rear wheel to drive me up hills. I can climb much steeper hills more quickly with my Velomobile despite it being a bit heavier than the bikes I’ve had. You can put a 250W motor in some models of Velomobiles. The 4More is a good candidate for that. It has a special front hatch option to give more space for the wide Q factor of a middrive motor. Price is comparable to the trike you’re pricing. Even though the 4More is fiberglass, it’s still really stiff. And yes, you can lean into the corners. Just shift your butt to the other side of the seat and lean your shoulders against the wall. Works very well.
The german Velomobile Forum reports a very good Wind stability for the W9 and W9S as well. It is ok to like the Velombiles most that you sell the most ;-)
Actually, the designer himself has said the W9 is not quite as stable in the wind as the M9 and A9.2. I have heard that also from W9 owners and experienced it myself when I briefly owned a W9. I believe I read the same from the designer about the W9s. My experience with the german forum is that information from Alpha owners is not always objective :)
The W9 is NOT, yes I said "NOT," stable in crosswinds. I have one. It's better in crosswinds than a Quest I once owned, but that's faint praise. It's not even close to the wind stability in the Bülk. It's not even as good as my Borealis V3, which is about a decade old.
Honnêtement c'est n'importe quoi de faire un top 10 , chaque vélomobile a utilisation bien différente sur quoi tu te base pour te permettre de mettre le waw en 10 ta vidéo n'as aucune pertinence, il existe plein de critères pour mettre ton top 1 en dernière position à moins que tu soit sponsorisé par la marque 😢
Everyone has their own opinions. I am sharing mine. You of course can make your own top 10 explaining why you think your list is the best. Over 100 Buelks have sold in the last year. No other model can come close to that, so it is not just me who thinks it is the top model. The 2nd most ordered model is the 4More. The WAW has not been updated since 2015. A lot of technological development in stiffness, light weight, maintenance access, and handling have happened in those years and the models I have listed above it have all benefited from that development. I'm looking at performance, ease of use, practicality, and sales figures. I am free to sell any model of velomobile I want. I have chosen to sell Buelks and Milans because after studying each model very carefully and riding them, I determined the Buelks and Milans would suit the most riders here in the US. I do also sell the DFs which did not even make my list, because while they are good designs, there are not really any orders for them anymore. It was the same for the Milan SL. People have chosen to order the more practical Buelk instead.
He almost only recommends Bulks. This top 10 seems to be for sales but in which countries I have no idea. If it isn't for sales then it might just be his opinions. I know he has tested all the Bulk models. He has tested the Alpha W9 and a couple of other Alphas. Has he tested a Waw, Snoek, DF, QV ? I really don't know. This review is mainly comparing features.
@@nicksutton2964 I know the WAW quite well. I built a clone of the WAW. From a construction standpoint I probably know it better than any other model. I haven’t ridden a QV or Snoek, but I’ve watched both be built and talked to a lot of people that have. I know the designs, driving characteristics, and features of every velomobile on this list quite well. I’ve either driven them, owned them, or talked a lot to different owners and designers. There will always be people who have different opinions from me, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many different designs. But as I said before, way more Bülk MK1’s have been sold in the last year, and really since it came out, than any other design. And really most of the people buying a Bülk are not buying based on my recommendation. Well over 200 have been built since it was introduced a little less than 2 years ago.
@@susanmaclachlan9861 I just did a century ride with close to 3,000 feet of elevation gain with an average speed of 22 mph and only needed 115 watts to do it. You don’t need e-assist for a bike to be practical. I grocery shop and commute with mine every week in a hilly urban area. So do a large percentage of my clients, some of which likewise live in urban and/or hilly areas like I do. They range in age from their 20’s to their 80’s. None of them have needed e-assist. Feel free to set up your own channel and produce a top 10 video of e-assisted bikes. This channel is dedicated to practical human powered bikes.
I find the Bülk quite practical. I do 80% of my travel in that, rather than a car. My commute, round trip, is 35 miles, and I bike it. I can carry plenty of groceries, half a dozen bags, and can ride it 11.5 months a year in Indianapolis (we get about 2 weeks of real snow per year, and I don't ride in that - too little visibility to cars). I do all my errands in it. The only times I'm in a car are when I have to drive out of town to a trial or a hearing (yeah, I'm an attorney), or when I'm doing something with another person. So, yeah, pretty practical.
@@susanmaclachlan9861 just to be clear in case it came across as sarcastic, I genuinely mean to make a top 10 video. There isn’t a lot of velomobile content. I think a variety of perspectives is beneficial. My focus is human power. I’m sure there would be benefit to another channel talking about e-assist.
Very informative video - many thanks 😊
@@colinmassey527 thanks for watchkmg
Timestamps:
0:56 #10 Waw
2:11 #9 Alpha 7
3:13 #8 Tuna
4:31 #7 Quatrevelo
5:49 #6 Snoek
6:57 #5 Alpha 9
8:41 #4 Milan GT
9:42 #3 Urban
10:59 #2 4More
12:03 #1 Bülk MK1
@@Bobbylegs37 thanks. Eventually UA-cam will make chapters of the video.
@@mnveloguy Sorry I couldn't wait, I kept trying to click back and forth to compare them 😅
@@Bobbylegs37 well, thank you for your service 🙂
Merci pour ta vidéo qui est très excellente !!! Je suis sur le point d' acheter un Alpha 7 qu'elles sont les problèmes que tu as rencontré ???
I have never owned an Alpha 7. They are built very lightweight, so it is good to check them regularly for any damage, especially if you hit big potholes or bumps. This is what I have heard from people that owned an Alpha 7.
Great Job Sir!
Thanks for watching. How's your Buelk working out?
@@mnveloguy Absolutely Fantastic Sir! Thank you for All your help with the purchasing process!!!
Thank you for mentioning all of the currently most popular models. I'm driving a df (predecessor of the Tuna and Alpha 7) and very happy with it.
Lots of DF's still on the road. The biggest difference between a DF and the current offerings is really just handling at high speed and in wind. The top new models have all made changes to help address that issue. That was a problem with the Quest as well. It's fascinating to see the development over time. Designs keep getting better and better.
Definetly progress has been accomplished and still will be. Higher speed is saying 35 mph and above. With cruising speed around 30 mph there's no issue, and for the rest it remains handling, adding to the challenge driving velomobiles always includes.
Take care.
I'd say that there's no problem with handling, with the new altered steering components (a couple years ago). Steering feels more peaceful now.
DF has proved to be a very reliable velomobile also. In my four seasons of riding (12000 km total) there's only been a need for basic maintenance, changing new tires etc.
Still, I've done some modification with my DFxl. There's an extra layer of carbon fibre on the suspension attachment points, because of the bad roads, potholes and stuff.
And now, the drive train is the fluidest possible a velomobile can have, because I made both wider rear idler cover and axle to allow side movement for the idler, along with the changing position of the chain. And I don't have a chain tubing on the power side of the chain either. Feels wonderfully friction-less now 👍
@@seppoinnanen5577I am still very satisfied with my DF XL too
My experience is with a 15 year old fiberglass Quest (gathering dust in the garage). The aero is decent, but the weight always killed me. I'd like to think it would be very noticeable to ride a velo that's 10kg lighter.
Picking from the list, my speedy racer side would like the Bulk mk1, but would probably go with the Bulk Urban. curious what the speed difference is at ~150w. Or if there's much difference in how they handle crosswinds; open vs closed front wheels.
This really depends on the terrain. If you are in a hilly area or a city with a lot of start and stop, the difference in speed won't be as large. If you are in a fairly flat area, then you will notice some difference. I'm not sure how much. Perhaps 5%? I've not really tested the speed difference. The MK1 might handle a tiny bit better in wind, but both seem quite good in my experience. I personally prefer the mk1 because it is a bit faster and I have some nice areas where I can take advantage of the speed here. Both are miles ahead of even the carbon fiber Quest. The difference compared to a fiberglass Quest would be significant. Those Quests are not just heavy. They also have a lot of flex which costs a ton of watts. I had a carbon Quest XS. I hated climbing hills in it. With the MK1 I have no issue with hills. The weight is about 5lbs difference, but the difference in stiffness is massive.
well, my ONLY point of reference is the QV+, so I guess that is my favorite!
Time for a second velomobile just to verify if the QV+ is really your favorite?
@@mnveloguy Seeing as the QV almost sent into permanent exile, don't think that will happen!
@@Bigboy4018 I meant a velomobiel of a different model. The QV will be back. They are planning to make some updates to it while they work to find a new producer for it.
I love my QV! I especially love that it’s so stable I almost cannot tip it over!
QV is my most favorite for my needs. I’m not a speed demon i just like to option to carrying my cargo with ease everywhere i go. I do have a question. My lady is 5’2. She doesn’t like snoek becuase is more reclined. What would you recommend for short riders that like to sit in the upright and not as reclined?
At 5'2" she should have quite an upright position in many velomobiles. I would suggest checking the Urban and 4More. I would not buy one without a test ride first since she is fairly short. Both should allow a far enough forward seating position for her legs to reach the pedals.
As for cargo capacity, the majority of velomobiles can have a trailer hitch installed. Then you have lots of cargo capacity, but only have the extra weight when you need it. I'm also surprised by just how much I can fit in the Buelk velomobiles. I've never run out of space for groceries yet.
My list:
1. Milan SL
2. Snoek
3. Tuna
4. Quest XS
5. Milan GT
6. DF
7. QV
8. Quest
9. Strada
10. Bülk MK1 / 4More / Urban
11. A/M/W/Ws-9
@@wimh4301 4 of those are no longer in production (or will be out of production very soon), and the DF has had so few orders the last couple years, it essentially is also out of production.
@@mnveloguy They were at the beginning of 2024.
@@wimh4301 I don’t recall precisely when it was announced the quest, Strada, and quest xs went out of production, but it was quite close to the beginning of the year. And you can’t order them now anyway, but then that is also true at the moment for the QV, so one could argue it doesn’t belong on my list, and that would be a fair point. Our lists definitely prioritize different points. You’re top two fit only a small portion of the population and are purely speed oriented. I went with the most practical models that fit the largest range of riders, though the Bülk MK1 is no slouch know the speed department. It’s quite close in aerodynamic efficiency to the SL and Snoek. Im curious why you rank the Tuna so high? It’s sold quite poorly.
@@mnveloguy First of all, it's MY list ;-)
The Tuna is a DF with pants. Very fast, suitable for many riders and not very sensitive to crosswinds. That's why the Tuna is so high on my list.
I don't think the Bülk is suitable at all for riders of about 1.75m. Way too bulky and way too wide at the shoulders. I wobble in all directions.
@@wimh4301 you are actually taller than I am. I am 1.68 and pretty skinny. I use thick shoulder pads, but I fit the Bülk better than the Quest XS which was also too wide in the shoulders. Everyone has different tastes. My ranking also is looking at the options from the perspective of the general public rather than what I would personally choose. I’m ranking based on efficiency, ease of setup, ease of maintenance access, practicality, etc. For me the Urban and 4More offer everything the Tuna does without the tiny front wheels that I have serious misgivings about. Everyone is looking for different things.
I'm waiting to get my first one so I can have a favorite. I keep telling my wife it will be our post-retirement second car!
It could even by your pre-retirement second car! Plus, the sooner you get riding a lot , the better your chances of having a long a prosperous retirement. At least that's how I justify it.
I agree.
Great minds think alike
Thanks for the upload. It is interesting to hear the feature comparisons. I think it is also important to know about the safety features of the various models as these machines are vehicles that can travel at high speeds with their precious cargo. For instance, I know that Daniel Fenn has pointed out some of the features of his Alpha series, learned from experience, from his own and other peoples' crashes. He talks about protection to the rider's face and head afforded by the wide shoulders of the Alpha shell if it should happen to roll over. The use of glass fibre in the nose and in front of the driver's face for shock protection/absorption in a crash. The extra reinforcement behind the rider's head. The use of glass fibre tank steering arms to prevent injury. I think he believes it is very important to keep the rider inside the vehicle should it tip or roll, hence I believe he does not endorse the large entrance opening of the Milan and Bulk designs. I saw police photographs of an accident where a Milan was in a collision with a car. Sadly the rider lost his life. It was evident that the velomobile had rolled and he was ejected /separated in the process. I saw another video from Germany where a famous dealer had a garage full of crashed velomobiles, with all sorts of dreadful damage visible, notably much shattered carbon (I forget his name now but I can find the video in a few mins if need be). Here, you have compared features and made some anecdotal points with sales numbers, so The Bulk comes out as your top pick while the Alpha series seems to come across as not quite the favourite because of its more finicky fitting setup. However, I would like to know more about these machines in terms of the protection they offer. I completely understand that this could be far more difficult to assess and yet I contend that any Top 10 should include some thoughts on safe design as a priority.
Thanks again for all your uploads!
@@nicksutton2964 the Bülk also has extensive safety features. There is a lengthy write-up covering that and the design as a whole on the Velomobile World Website. That was also part of the thought with the modular design. I know I’ve covered the safety aspect in some of my other videos about the Bülk and rider safety. Different designers take a different approach. Daniel thinks a fixed seat is better in a crash. The Bülk Team thinks having the seat sitting free on a stack of foam pads is better because the energy won’t transfer as strongly. The Bülk uses padded headrests. The Alphas have a hard surface. The Bülk has padded shoulder rests over the rider shoulders. The Alphas have a curved rim which is quite hard when your shoulders bang into it. There are design elements of the front end as well that prevent things like the front frame from being pushed back towards the rider. The carbon is layer up with a layer of Innegra between in critical areas to prevent the carbon from shattering. The Bülk Team studied all known crashes when designing the Bülk. Those are the only two lines of Velomobiles I know that are specifically safety designed. I would imagine there must be some safety considerations with the velo.nl designs, but they have not publicized anything about it.
@@mnveloguy so do you think the Bulk is the safest then? Doesn't the Alpha also use Innegra sandwich construction?
I think it is still early days. We are seeing new ideas being tested and refined all the time. People report their experiences to the best of their abilities and there are no agreed safety standards for velomobiles (yes?no?) and it is unlikely that they will materialize any time soon.
@@nicksutton2964 it’s purely my personal opinion, but I think the safety designs of the Bülk make more sense to me from an engineering standpoint. I applaud both developers for focusing on this area. Velomobiles are quite well-refined now in the stiffness and aerodynamics areas. I think safety and maintenance access are the next areas we will see development and refinement in.
@@nicksutton2964 I have both. I can't comment on the construction, but I can comment from personal experience. Both need to fit right to be safe. That's the starting point. When correctly fitted, both stop the body from coming forward in a sudden stop accident. They do it with foam pad in the rim of the cockpit that your shoulder hit if thrust forward. The W9 has a seat that's bolted in, while the Bülk seat can pop out. Theoretically, at least, that means the W9 is more sure to catch you while you can slide under the shoulder stops in the Bülk, if the seat gets loose. But there's a safety downside, too. The seat in the W9 is very limited. It won't fit you. It will just get as close as you can. That, in its own right, is less safe than the Bülk, which can be adjusted to fit just about any rider. They're made, as far as I know, of the same material. The W9 is lighter, but that's because it's thinner. It really is thinner is some places that stand out, like the bridge you put your feet on to get in and get out. That, in its own right, indicates that there's less wall between you and the accident, and thus less safety. Here's one other safety issue, also discussed above. The W9 is just flat out not stable in cross-winds at medium to high speeds (anything over about 28 mph). The Bülk is a rock. And velos go more than 28 mph, even if you're not trying to go fast. Just go down a bridge and look at your speedo. That means the W9 is ALWAYS more dangerous than the Bülk, every time you go out for a ride.
Thanks for the comparison. How big is the difference in speed between the Urban and Bülk if you only consider the two open wheel arches? Is the difference really that noticeable at speeds over 50 km/h?
I don't have a specific number. My testing course has been flooded much of the summer and is now blocked by road construction. Maybe 5%? I do notice some reduction in speed in places where I'd be riding above 25mph. Really depends on the riding situation. If you have a lot of tight turns or a really twisty riding area where you'd be going down hills at higher speeds, then the wider track can compensate for some of the speed loss. Either way, both bikes are way faster on the flat and downhill than an upright bike and a lot more comfortable. That said, my primary ride is the mk1. I ride almost entirely on road with rolling hills where the higher speed potential of the mk1 comes into play. I use the Urban mainly for running errands and commuting during the school year where I have a lot of stop and go and corners to negotiate.
Nice video.
I'm looking forward to seeing the BULK Mark 2 that got URBAN's huge maintenance hatch.
@@15a86 we will see if an MK2 comes, and if it does, what features it might have. My new Urban will be here in about 3 weeks. Then I can do some hill climb comparisons to the MK1 and see if the larger access hatch has an impact on stiffness. The Urbans I’ve ridden so far all had the smaller front hatch. Convenience is nice, but stiffness is more important.
Thanks for this top 10. Could you tell me what the speed difference is between the Snoek and the Bulk MK1 on the flat and what the weight difference is? thank's
@@ericguerber weight is very similar if outfitted with the same components. Speed difference between most of these models doesn’t show up until you are around 50km/h. Then you start to see some difference. I’m not sure how much because I’ve never tested both back to back and don’t know of anyone that has. The Bülk can take corners faster and I’ve been told it is a bit stiffer as well, so some of that speed difference might be made up accelerating and cornering. There is also the practical aspect. The Snoek maintenance access is much less convenient. The Snoek has less cargo capacity, and it’s a lot more Wind sensitive and not as stable at high speed.
Common knowledge is that a Snoek smokes any Bülk. Ben's also knows this. Recent info shows that the Snoek-L is also faster. So when you want speed first, Snoek is the best choice. Ben does not sell Snoek or Snoek-L and has never ridden one. Weight is about the same give or take a kilo.
@@hoekie3652 did you actually read my answer? For most people it’s irrelevant which is more aerodynamically efficient because they don’t fit in the Snoek. Even the Snoek L is pretty narrow at the shoulders. The Snoek L I would expect to be the same speed as the Bülk, but I don’t know of any truly scientific comparison that’s been done. To conclusively answer this question is not simple. There are so many factors with rolling resistance, wind, drivetrain efficiency, and our own variances as humans when riding.
@@mnveloguy I edited my post. It was a bit harsh first. And yes, Snoek-L and Bülk comparison have been done already. I love your enthusiasm, but perhaps you should just talk about what you know and sell.
@@hoekie3652 the comparison that I know of between Bülk and Snoek L was not quite as rigorous as I would like to see. Variables have to be carefully controlled and multiple repetitions done to eliminate variance.
I was asked what I thought the speed difference was. I gave my answer and opinion and clearly stated that I do not know the precise difference. Frankly I don’t think it matters. They are all very efficient. I think there are more critical parameters than speed difference and I stated what I thought those were.
I also was very clear at the beginning of this video that this is my opinion about models. Anyone can upload a video to UA-cam. If your views differ from mine, which appears to be the case, then by all means make a video stating your case and promote it.
Nicely done. Did you happen to consider the Orca by Flevobike?
@@rickhoran not in production anymore. The QV was even borderline to be on this list because it currently has paused production, but I know the intent is to get it going again and remaining orders are being filled. The Orca also was mainly outfitted with e-assist due to its weight, so it wouldn’t have made the list anyway. I think it’s been out of production for several years now. It’s rare to even see them available used.
Wow! Awesome machines! Some are 70 lbs???? These are asking to become VTOL personal transportation vehicles! If I had a surplus of cash, i’d buy in to this lifestyle vehicle-
@@yaksauce the 4More has a starting price of $6000USD. You can also find used ones. Right now I know of several DF’s for around $5000 and a Quest in Florida for $3799 a friend of mine is selling. For what you save in gas, healthcare costs, and insurance, especially in a multi-car household, it quickly becomes worth the investment.
Have a touring trike, Put a motor on it as too slow for my liking climbing hills which can be dangerous if the hill is at traffic lights or at temporary lights for roadworks up a hill. A velomobile is quite a bit heavier so would be even worse, particualry since you tend to go for higher gearing. Can't see a velomobile being practical in a hilly place like scotland without a motor.
Getting a 2nd trike, a sports one, the ICE VTX rather than a velomobile, due to worse climbing ability of a velo due to it's weight and the fact that in most velo videos, the velo gets 1 or more punctures which I assume will be harder to fix.
On a trike you can lean into corners, I doubt that you can on a velo to any degree.
Spenind £6400 on the trike, a velo as far as I know is £10000+ which is too much.
@@DemiGod.. have you ever ridden a velomobile? It’s easy to make assumptions, but that doesn’t mean they accurately reflect reality.
I have never liked climbing with any of the recumbent bikes or trikes I owned. I needed very low gearing on all of them. My Bülk MK1 and the W9 I had were a night and day difference from climbing with the other recumbents I’ve had. Both are super stiff and transferred all of my pedal power to the rear wheel to drive me up hills. I can climb much steeper hills more quickly with my Velomobile despite it being a bit heavier than the bikes I’ve had.
You can put a 250W motor in some models of Velomobiles. The 4More is a good candidate for that. It has a special front hatch option to give more space for the wide Q factor of a middrive motor. Price is comparable to the trike you’re pricing. Even though the 4More is fiberglass, it’s still really stiff. And yes, you can lean into the corners. Just shift your butt to the other side of the seat and lean your shoulders against the wall. Works very well.
The german Velomobile Forum reports a very good Wind stability for the W9 and W9S as well. It is ok to like the Velombiles most that you sell the most ;-)
I like riding my old, heavy Quest and oaccasionally my sons A7 so it is always a personal preference which Velomobile fits best.
Actually, the designer himself has said the W9 is not quite as stable in the wind as the M9 and A9.2. I have heard that also from W9 owners and experienced it myself when I briefly owned a W9. I believe I read the same from the designer about the W9s. My experience with the german forum is that information from Alpha owners is not always objective :)
The W9 is NOT, yes I said "NOT," stable in crosswinds. I have one. It's better in crosswinds than a Quest I once owned, but that's faint praise. It's not even close to the wind stability in the Bülk. It's not even as good as my Borealis V3, which is about a decade old.
Honnêtement c'est n'importe quoi de faire un top 10 , chaque vélomobile a utilisation bien différente sur quoi tu te base pour te permettre de mettre le waw en 10 ta vidéo n'as aucune pertinence, il existe plein de critères pour mettre ton top 1 en dernière position à moins que tu soit sponsorisé par la marque 😢
Everyone has their own opinions. I am sharing mine. You of course can make your own top 10 explaining why you think your list is the best. Over 100 Buelks have sold in the last year. No other model can come close to that, so it is not just me who thinks it is the top model. The 2nd most ordered model is the 4More. The WAW has not been updated since 2015. A lot of technological development in stiffness, light weight, maintenance access, and handling have happened in those years and the models I have listed above it have all benefited from that development. I'm looking at performance, ease of use, practicality, and sales figures. I am free to sell any model of velomobile I want. I have chosen to sell Buelks and Milans because after studying each model very carefully and riding them, I determined the Buelks and Milans would suit the most riders here in the US. I do also sell the DFs which did not even make my list, because while they are good designs, there are not really any orders for them anymore. It was the same for the Milan SL. People have chosen to order the more practical Buelk instead.
@@mnveloguyeffectivement vue comme ça aucune pertinence
He almost only recommends Bulks. This top 10 seems to be for sales but in which countries I have no idea. If it isn't for sales then it might just be his opinions. I know he has tested all the Bulk models. He has tested the Alpha W9 and a couple of other Alphas. Has he tested a Waw, Snoek, DF, QV ? I really don't know. This review is mainly comparing features.
@@nicksutton2964 I know the WAW quite well. I built a clone of the WAW. From a construction standpoint I probably know it better than any other model. I haven’t ridden a QV or Snoek, but I’ve watched both be built and talked to a lot of people that have. I know the designs, driving characteristics, and features of every velomobile on this list quite well. I’ve either driven them, owned them, or talked a lot to different owners and designers. There will always be people who have different opinions from me, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many different designs. But as I said before, way more Bülk MK1’s have been sold in the last year, and really since it came out, than any other design. And really most of the people buying a Bülk are not buying based on my recommendation. Well over 200 have been built since it was introduced a little less than 2 years ago.
Very sporty but nothing really practical, leaving out the electric assisted models which tend to be more utilitarian and practical was a mistake.
@@susanmaclachlan9861 I just did a century ride with close to 3,000 feet of elevation gain with an average speed of 22 mph and only needed 115 watts to do it. You don’t need e-assist for a bike to be practical. I grocery shop and commute with mine every week in a hilly urban area. So do a large percentage of my clients, some of which likewise live in urban and/or hilly areas like I do. They range in age from their 20’s to their 80’s. None of them have needed e-assist.
Feel free to set up your own channel and produce a top 10 video of e-assisted bikes. This channel is dedicated to practical human powered bikes.
I find the Bülk quite practical. I do 80% of my travel in that, rather than a car. My commute, round trip, is 35 miles, and I bike it. I can carry plenty of groceries, half a dozen bags, and can ride it 11.5 months a year in Indianapolis (we get about 2 weeks of real snow per year, and I don't ride in that - too little visibility to cars). I do all my errands in it. The only times I'm in a car are when I have to drive out of town to a trial or a hearing (yeah, I'm an attorney), or when I'm doing something with another person. So, yeah, pretty practical.
@@susanmaclachlan9861 just to be clear in case it came across as sarcastic, I genuinely mean to make a top 10 video. There isn’t a lot of velomobile content. I think a variety of perspectives is beneficial. My focus is human power. I’m sure there would be benefit to another channel talking about e-assist.