A fellow on Antique Radio Forum says this type of connection was for "dip soldering," which I suppose was an early form of wave soldering (i.e. invert the chassis and dip it into a pool of solder). He also said it didn't work very well, though I haven't had any reliability problems myself.
I have restored a bunch of AA5 radios and a load vintage TVs and yet this is the first time I have seen this style tube sockets. Thank you for sharing it! Also as you stated and showed, the 'J hook' was a recommended repair method by many manufactures. In fact, if you find yourself working on something with early circuit boards I would suggest you 'J hook' as much as possible as those traces are very fragile and often lift right off when you are trying to remove or install a new component.
The “J” hook connection is the best repair technique, better than the original joint and if you cover the soldered lead with shrink tubing , no one really knows. Trying to rework 50 year old connections like the factory installed is destructive in many ways, particularly to the copper foils on any printed circuit board.
GE designated this type of construction as a "mechanized chassis" but it is difficult to find references to that name. WardCo provides a list of model numbers with an F suffix. The F designates the "mechanized chassis" version, so model 510F had that construction but model 510 did not. My model 535 "radio clock", a 6 tube clock radio, had a "mechanized chassis". Probably there was no F suffix because all model 535 radios had the "mechanized chassis". The radios had the donuts over the solder wells, presumably for safety, so no one would get a shock from touching wells if they poked fingers through the ventilation holes on the back. My parents owned a 1954 GE console TV which also used this construction, but the solder wells were not covered. GE depended on the back cover AC power cord interlock to safely power down the set before someone touched the wells. I recall that Zenith continued to use this type of construction well into the 1960s for its "hand crafted" TV sets, while competitors had gone to printed wiring boards. Zenith did not have the donuts, either. In production, this type of construction probably reduced the number of wiring errors made by assemblers, since the component layout was more orderly. Also, when errors were made, they were probably easier to spot by the technicians testing the radios as they came off the production line.
I had never seen this construction before - very cool! I wonder where the factory was - I worked for GE in Utica in the 80's and there was a consumer electronics operation there (I was in military electronics).
That Sentinel is really cool. On the topic of reverse engineering: there's definitely room for an anthropological/historicist look at how people used to work and get things like this done. The Anthropology of the Industrial Age.
Great insight into the why and how there. I absolutely agree with you. Mr. Carlson is doing great work, and long may he continue, but it is strangely fortunate, that he always finds himself working on chassis and equipment that are in such good condition. Nice work on the production too-so often resto videos are just hands and a disembodied voice, you've gone to great effort to give it the personal touch, and yet include all the relevant clips, as you speak. Thank you!
I have a red "G.E." that was built in 1954 that has the same chassis layout/ tube sockets, and has the "SILVER MICA DISEASE" problem in the I.F. transformers. I just bought this radio, and will need a full restoration. the next generation "G.E." radios used the metal pan with a printed circuit board where the major components plugged into the p.c. board. by the late 50's they had moved on to full p.c. boards, as did all the other companies, except "ZENITH", they made their sets with metal pans/ hard wired.
I just restored one of these sets and what struck me was the factory punch that made the holes in the chassis for the tubes was clearly for octal tubes. I also have a 1949 version (Model 501) with the same chassis but has mixed octal and miniature tubes, and with standard phenolic socket connections rather than the spikes, holes and donuts. I went all-in j-hook for recapping. No problem with silver mica disease but the detector section in the 1st audio tube was bad
Yes. I've seen 2 examples out of the 10 or so I've done in the 51xF line that had the mix of tubes and they are prized because the full-sized IF transformers in them are capacatively tuned and don't get silver mica disease. Plus they just seem to work better all around.
@@WardCo I just obtained a third model from this series -- one with all octal tubes (GE 60), a mixed octal and miniature (GE 501), and an all-miniature with the metal donuts (GE 512F). The first and second have identically punched chassis, but the tube socket punches in the latter are actually larger to accommodate the dip solder connections. I now think they may have tried dip soldering to cut costs since hand-wiring and soldering miniature tubes was harder, as if it was a transition from hand-wiring to printed circuit dip soldering. The first two have capacitive IF tuning, but the last has ferrite cup tuning with the integral silver-mica fixed capacitors
When I was a teenage "electronic hobbyist" people would give me old radios which I would most often just gut for parts and hated these things. I wanted "real" tube sockets that you could unsolder, clean up, drill out the rivets and reuse. These things always just fell apart and besides, it wouldn't fit a standard tube socket hole anyway. OK, I was a butcher but in my defense there were some things that made me think JUNK whenever I saw these. The main flaw with these sockets was that air-gap between the upper and lower wafer. Any bit of debris inside there that was even partly conductive and was also near a high voltage pin could start arching to an adjacent lower voltage pin and turn the wafer into carbon just cooking it. Standard tube sockets were encased in plastic and didn't have this problem but alas - you couldn't replace it with standard tube socket because they don't fit the hole! So that's why I wouldn't even bother repairing these and gave them "junk" status. Not having that problematic dial string is cool though, one point it's favor. It is pretty cool seeing these old radios all restored and pretty. Nice work.
I recapped a 1951 GE 630 years ago with the online advice from a Candian HAM guy who had a big AM radio station transmitter webpage... back then I had those terrible Radio shack 30watt soldering pencils and had no idea how important it was to clean you rtip after ever few joints. A year or two I bought a TS-100 FET soldering iron, some cleaning paste, flux, and k\Kester soldering solder, and silver retinning paste and boom.. my soldering took off. I could solder like a boss after watching some PACEWORLDonline videos. and then I went blind, and now I can't solder anything... and it halted my flying robot quadcopter hobby dead in it's tracks. I got 3,000 worth of flying robots, but can't do nothing with them because I can't see to solder now. Irony. Spent 4,000 hours in the simulator flying to a TV though, and I'm now te worlds best Aerbatic Dancer. Don't touch radios any more, now it's all Alexa and UA-cam... these things are mostly now nostalgia items for those that love vacuum tubes. There is no other reason to own them as there's nothing on the radio airwaves any more. Except cellular and wifi traffic :)
I have a "G.E." radio that was built in late 1949, that I bought in 1976, and has been on the job to this day. it is the same radio as yours except it is cream color, and has the cap tuned I.F. transformers instead of being slug tuned with silver mica caps in the base of the can. the tube compliment is a hybrid. the rect./ output tubes are 7 pin minies, and the conv., I.F.amp, A.F. amp/ det./ avc tubes are 8 pin octal, with all components being hard wired in, not like your radio. I replaced the resistors/ caps 10 years ago. when I did that ,I also installed a "C.L.90" thermistor in the heater string so the tube heaters are soft started.
Yes, for some reason, and much to chagrin of my wife, I have acquired about 7 versions of this model, but I only came across 1 with the "transitional chassis" you describe and I used it in my "flagship" 517F because it tunes up so easily and you don't have to worry about silver-mica disease and rebuilding the IF cans. The tubes are all socketed though. I should do the thermistor thing but always seem to skip it. Tangentially, I do polarize the input and swap positive and negative which is probably unnecessary, but makes me feel better.
@@WardCo I always replace the power cord with a polarized plug, and change the hot side with the switch, that way the chassis is at ground potential. the thermistor will stop the inrush current on the heater circuit, eliminating the 12 volt heater tubes from expiring. thanks for responding back ,I did subscribe to your channel, I found you by accident!!!. it is interesting that all radios with the 455( K.C.) I.F. freq. are wired the same, being that it is an "R.C.A." design, and other radio manufacturers had to pay royalties to "NIPPER"!!!!.( the "GOLDEN THROAT"). when it came to money, david sarnoff was always hungry!!!.. R.C.A. was born in 1919 from the break up of general electric electronics dept. "F.D.R". who was governor of new york at the time ,felt that general electric was getting too big.
Hi Sir, I need help with this radio, model 505, please. My father gave me one (he's not with me now), but I'm not sure how to configure the clock. There's another knob behind the radio that doesn't move, and I don't know if it's supposed to be used to configure the clock. I understand how the other buttons in front of the radio work, except for the "set/alarm" function. If you can help, I would be very grateful, sir. :)
The knob in the rear moves the hands to set the time. If it is not turning the clock mechanism is jammed up in some way. If you pull out the set/alarm button and turn it, the inner alarm wheel turns to set the alarm time. When it is pulled out, the alarm is "armed" and you push it in to silence the alarm when it goes off.
@@WardCo Sir, you are correct; the clock mechanism appears to be jammed in some way. The seconds knob is working, and the alarm is functioning as well, but I can't set the correct time I read that old mechanisms like this one sometimes need a bit of lubrication. Could that be the issue? I will attempt to fix it Thank you for your help; I really appreciate it
I replaced my filter cap with two electrolytic ones 10 years ago on my GE 430 and I turn it on with no volume and it hums. And my GE 202 doesn't even work at all. They just didn't build these things to last. Very frustrating.
Yeah. More than that, these AA5 and AA6 sets are SO minimalist that, even if you do the full recap, they can still hum and oscillate just from bad component placement. And of course, it's not always obvious what's "bad!" For all their vaunted simplicity, I find them much more fiddley than transformer sets.
@@WardCo Mine were free, so I can't complain. Plus, they double as toaster ovens. I'd like to get that AA6 working though again just to see one mone more tube does. Honestly, I don't listen to radio, so it's more like a Cleric Snow Globe scene in Equilibrium. Stuff that was antique when I was a kid, now, are a bizarre anachronism to me. Like, how did this thing survive for so long and travel so far, and it's going to outlast even me, so where is it headed next... after I'm dead. ua-cam.com/video/_b3_-pPzDVk/v-deo.html
Yes indeed! For me, the benefits of working on "vintage" tech like this are that it helps you understand the flow to, and evolution of, modern complexity from simpler times. And the other thing you realize is that those times weren't that simple, it only seems so with a modern education and hindsight. This was "state of the art" stuff back in the day, and you realize the poeple who created it were really, really smart and just limited by the components the material science of the time could provide to them. There are a lot of ghosts around all this stuff.
@@WardCo I was about to say, not that simple! I still can't wrap my head arpimd what's going on in an AA5 in all the stages. And how they got from watching some filings move around in a glass tube in a coherer by blasting a dirty nasty static all over the bandwidth to the point of a mass produced AA5 was a huge leap forward and some seriously intense development. Add on top of that, the gem was the vacuum tube that led to the transistor, that led to the solid state transistor and then the lithographied integrated chip. I remember an ad back when I was into these radios of some beast top of the line at the height of the golden era of it radio they produced with like 100- plus tubes when they were adding in more tubes just for the sake of more tubes quantity of tubes marketing race, where the tubes were housed in shiny silver canisters so the top of the chassis looked like a minutre city of skyscrapers. I forget the radio and the brand name, but I could probably find it if I tried.
That would be E. H. Scott, for the skyscraper look. They were the best of the best, so all of those tubes actually did something useful. Just to confuse things: There was also the H.H. Scott company, they made more conventional (but still very good) stereo gear in the 50's and 60's. And none of that has anything to do with my name! @@choppergirl
Clipping and, UH, soldering is the electronic, UH, equivalent, UH, of saying so many, UH, vocal, UH, fillers which is why, UH, why some people, UH frown upon it. But in reality its easier because they used to wrap the leads 2-3 times before soldering like the component would last forever.
That type of sockets are exellent specially if you need to test tubes and signals, you don't need to flip the chassis all the time or use extension test sockets ..cool.
If you had a GE set from the 60's with a curcuit board you would be dealing with "Griplets which were a tiny hollow rivet in all through holes Everyone hates them.
![A Restoration Adventure - [ GE Radio Receiver Restoration Series ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5y0RqivTy4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
![A Restoration Adventure - [ GE Radio Receiver Restoration Series ]](/img/tr.png)
A fellow on Antique Radio Forum says this type of connection was for "dip soldering," which I suppose was an early form of wave soldering (i.e. invert the chassis and dip it into a pool of solder). He also said it didn't work very well, though I haven't had any reliability problems myself.
I have restored a bunch of AA5 radios and a load vintage TVs and yet this is the first time I have seen this style tube sockets. Thank you for sharing it! Also as you stated and showed, the 'J hook' was a recommended repair method by many manufactures. In fact, if you find yourself working on something with early circuit boards I would suggest you 'J hook' as much as possible as those traces are very fragile and often lift right off when you are trying to remove or install a new component.
The “J” hook connection is the best repair technique, better than the original joint and if you cover the soldered lead with shrink tubing , no one really knows. Trying to rework 50 year old connections like the factory installed is destructive in many ways, particularly to the copper foils on any printed circuit board.
GE designated this type of construction as a "mechanized chassis" but it is difficult to find references to that name. WardCo provides a list of model numbers with an F suffix. The F designates the "mechanized chassis" version, so model 510F had that construction but model 510 did not. My model 535 "radio clock", a 6 tube clock radio, had a "mechanized chassis". Probably there was no F suffix because all model 535 radios had the "mechanized chassis".
The radios had the donuts over the solder wells, presumably for safety, so no one would get a shock from touching wells if they poked fingers through the ventilation holes on the back. My parents owned a 1954 GE console TV which also used this construction, but the solder wells were not covered. GE depended on the back cover AC power cord interlock to safely power down the set before someone touched the wells. I recall that Zenith continued to use this type of construction well into the 1960s for its "hand crafted" TV sets, while competitors had gone to printed wiring boards. Zenith did not have the donuts, either.
In production, this type of construction probably reduced the number of wiring errors made by assemblers, since the component layout was more orderly. Also, when errors were made, they were probably easier to spot by the technicians testing the radios as they came off the production line.
Thanks for this great info. (And for reminding me about Zenith's "hand crafted" moniker! My folks loved their Zenith's Space Commands...)
Interesting wiring method. I played around with All American 5 radios as a kid but I don't remember every seeing that type of construction.
I had never seen this construction before - very cool! I wonder where the factory was - I worked for GE in Utica in the 80's and there was a consumer electronics operation there (I was in military electronics).
Great info and well presented.
Thanks FC! (Think I need to build a stereo...)
Interesting. I had not seen that design. Thanks
That particular radio is susceptible to silver mica disease. I too work on tube radios as a hobby and it's a great joy bringing them back to life!
Oh yes, I've now rebuilt the IF cans on 2 of them.
That Sentinel is really cool. On the topic of reverse engineering: there's definitely room for an anthropological/historicist look at how people used to work and get things like this done. The Anthropology of the Industrial Age.
Great insight into the why and how there. I absolutely agree with you. Mr. Carlson is doing great work, and long may he continue, but it is strangely fortunate, that he always finds himself working on chassis and equipment that are in such good condition.
Nice work on the production too-so often resto videos are just hands and a disembodied voice, you've gone to great effort to give it the personal touch, and yet include all the relevant clips, as you speak. Thank you!
Thanks Roundy. Appreciated.
I have a red "G.E." that was built in 1954 that has the same chassis layout/ tube sockets, and has the "SILVER MICA DISEASE" problem in the I.F. transformers. I just bought this radio, and will need a full restoration. the next generation "G.E." radios used the metal pan with a printed circuit board where the major components plugged into the p.c. board. by the late 50's they had moved on to full p.c. boards, as did all the other companies, except "ZENITH", they made their sets with metal pans/ hard wired.
I just restored one of these sets and what struck me was the factory punch that made the holes in the chassis for the tubes was clearly for octal tubes. I also have a 1949 version (Model 501) with the same chassis but has mixed octal and miniature tubes, and with standard phenolic socket connections rather than the spikes, holes and donuts. I went all-in j-hook for recapping. No problem with silver mica disease but the detector section in the 1st audio tube was bad
Yes. I've seen 2 examples out of the 10 or so I've done in the 51xF line that had the mix of tubes and they are prized because the full-sized IF transformers in them are capacatively tuned and don't get silver mica disease. Plus they just seem to work better all around.
@@WardCo I just obtained a third model from this series -- one with all octal tubes (GE 60), a mixed octal and miniature (GE 501), and an all-miniature with the metal donuts (GE 512F). The first and second have identically punched chassis, but the tube socket punches in the latter are actually larger to accommodate the dip solder connections. I now think they may have tried dip soldering to cut costs since hand-wiring and soldering miniature tubes was harder, as if it was a transition from hand-wiring to printed circuit dip soldering. The first two have capacitive IF tuning, but the last has ferrite cup tuning with the integral silver-mica fixed capacitors
Is your family the legacy tribe which birthed the massive Circuit City chain, which started out as Wards TV?
When I was a teenage "electronic hobbyist" people would give me old radios which I would most often just gut for parts and hated these things. I wanted "real" tube sockets that you could unsolder, clean up, drill out the rivets and reuse. These things always just fell apart and besides, it wouldn't fit a standard tube socket hole anyway. OK, I was a butcher but in my defense there were some things that made me think JUNK whenever I saw these. The main flaw with these sockets was that air-gap between the upper and lower wafer. Any bit of debris inside there that was even partly conductive and was also near a high voltage pin could start arching to an adjacent lower voltage pin and turn the wafer into carbon just cooking it. Standard tube sockets were encased in plastic and didn't have this problem but alas - you couldn't replace it with standard tube socket because they don't fit the hole! So that's why I wouldn't even bother repairing these and gave them "junk" status. Not having that problematic dial string is cool though, one point it's favor. It is pretty cool seeing these old radios all restored and pretty. Nice work.
I recapped a 1951 GE 630 years ago with the online advice from a Candian HAM guy who had a big AM radio station transmitter webpage... back then I had those terrible Radio shack 30watt soldering pencils and had no idea how important it was to clean you rtip after ever few joints.
A year or two I bought a TS-100 FET soldering iron, some cleaning paste, flux, and k\Kester soldering solder, and silver retinning paste and boom.. my soldering took off. I could solder like a boss after watching some PACEWORLDonline videos. and then I went blind, and now I can't solder anything... and it halted my flying robot quadcopter hobby dead in it's tracks.
I got 3,000 worth of flying robots, but can't do nothing with them because I can't see to solder now. Irony. Spent 4,000 hours in the simulator flying to a TV though, and I'm now te worlds best Aerbatic Dancer.
Don't touch radios any more, now it's all Alexa and UA-cam... these things are mostly now nostalgia items for those that love vacuum tubes. There is no other reason to own them as there's nothing on the radio airwaves any more. Except cellular and wifi traffic :)
Regarding those "wells", Fender amps have little circuit boards with those and they refer to them as "turrets".
"Turrets" it is then! Thanks!
I have a "G.E." radio that was built in late 1949, that I bought in 1976, and has been on the job to this day. it is the same radio as yours except it is cream color, and has the cap tuned I.F. transformers instead of being slug tuned with silver mica caps in the base of the can. the tube compliment is a hybrid. the rect./ output tubes are 7 pin minies, and the conv., I.F.amp, A.F. amp/ det./ avc tubes are 8 pin octal, with all components being hard wired in, not like your radio. I replaced the resistors/ caps 10 years ago. when I did that ,I also installed a "C.L.90" thermistor in the heater string so the tube heaters are soft started.
Yes, for some reason, and much to chagrin of my wife, I have acquired about 7 versions of this model, but I only came across 1 with the "transitional chassis" you describe and I used it in my "flagship" 517F because it tunes up so easily and you don't have to worry about silver-mica disease and rebuilding the IF cans. The tubes are all socketed though. I should do the thermistor thing but always seem to skip it. Tangentially, I do polarize the input and swap positive and negative which is probably unnecessary, but makes me feel better.
@@WardCo I always replace the power cord with a polarized plug, and change the hot side with the switch, that way the chassis is at ground potential. the thermistor will stop the inrush current on the heater circuit, eliminating the 12 volt heater tubes from expiring. thanks for responding back ,I did subscribe to your channel, I found you by accident!!!. it is interesting that all radios with the 455( K.C.) I.F. freq. are wired the same, being that it is an "R.C.A." design, and other radio manufacturers had to pay royalties to "NIPPER"!!!!.( the "GOLDEN THROAT"). when it came to money, david sarnoff was always hungry!!!.. R.C.A. was born in 1919 from the break up of general electric electronics dept. "F.D.R". who was governor of new york at the time ,felt that general electric was getting too big.
Hi Sir,
I need help with this radio, model 505, please. My father gave me one (he's not with me now), but I'm not sure how to configure the clock. There's another knob behind the radio that doesn't move, and I don't know if it's supposed to be used to configure the clock. I understand how the other buttons in front of the radio work, except for the "set/alarm" function. If you can help, I would be very grateful, sir. :)
The knob in the rear moves the hands to set the time. If it is not turning the clock mechanism is jammed up in some way. If you pull out the set/alarm button and turn it, the inner alarm wheel turns to set the alarm time. When it is pulled out, the alarm is "armed" and you push it in to silence the alarm when it goes off.
@@WardCo
Sir, you are correct; the clock mechanism appears to be jammed in some way. The seconds knob is working, and the alarm is functioning as well, but I can't set the correct time
I read that old mechanisms like this one sometimes need a bit of lubrication. Could that be the issue? I will attempt to fix it
Thank you for your help; I really appreciate it
I replaced my filter cap with two electrolytic ones 10 years ago on my GE 430 and I turn it on with no volume and it hums. And my GE 202 doesn't even work at all. They just didn't build these things to last. Very frustrating.
Yeah. More than that, these AA5 and AA6 sets are SO minimalist that, even if you do the full recap, they can still hum and oscillate just from bad component placement. And of course, it's not always obvious what's "bad!" For all their vaunted simplicity, I find them much more fiddley than transformer sets.
@@WardCo Mine were free, so I can't complain. Plus, they double as toaster ovens. I'd like to get that AA6 working though again just to see one mone more tube does. Honestly, I don't listen to radio, so it's more like a Cleric Snow Globe scene in Equilibrium. Stuff that was antique when I was a kid, now, are a bizarre anachronism to me. Like, how did this thing survive for so long and travel so far, and it's going to outlast even me, so where is it headed next... after I'm dead.
ua-cam.com/video/_b3_-pPzDVk/v-deo.html
Yes indeed! For me, the benefits of working on "vintage" tech like this are that it helps you understand the flow to, and evolution of, modern complexity from simpler times.
And the other thing you realize is that those times weren't that simple, it only seems so with a modern education and hindsight. This was "state of the art" stuff back in the day, and you realize the poeple who created it were really, really smart and just limited by the components the material science of the time could provide to them.
There are a lot of ghosts around all this stuff.
@@WardCo I was about to say, not that simple! I still can't wrap my head arpimd what's going on in an AA5 in all the stages.
And how they got from watching some filings move around in a glass tube in a coherer by blasting a dirty nasty static all over the bandwidth to the point of a mass produced AA5 was a huge leap forward and some seriously intense development.
Add on top of that, the gem was the vacuum tube that led to the transistor, that led to the solid state transistor and then the lithographied integrated chip.
I remember an ad back when I was into these radios of some beast top of the line at the height of the golden era of it radio they produced with like 100- plus tubes when they were adding in more tubes just for the sake of more tubes quantity of tubes marketing race, where the tubes were housed in shiny silver canisters so the top of the chassis looked like a minutre city of skyscrapers. I forget the radio and the brand name, but I could probably find it if I tried.
That would be E. H. Scott, for the skyscraper look. They were the best of the best, so all of those tubes actually did something useful. Just to confuse things: There was also the H.H. Scott company, they made more conventional (but still very good) stereo gear in the 50's and 60's. And none of that has anything to do with my name! @@choppergirl
Do a video about Mad Man Muntz.
Muntz TV !!!
Clipping and, UH, soldering is the electronic, UH, equivalent, UH, of saying so many, UH, vocal, UH, fillers which is why, UH, why some people, UH frown upon it. But in reality its easier because they used to wrap the leads 2-3 times before soldering like the component would last forever.
Are you, UH, mocking me? :)
That type of sockets are exellent specially if you need to test tubes and signals, you don't need to flip the chassis all the time or use extension test sockets ..cool.
If you had a GE set from the 60's with a curcuit board you would be dealing with "Griplets which were a tiny hollow rivet in all through holes Everyone hates them.
Percolator plugged in there probably burn your house down 🙄
Stop frittering away your retirement!
Frittering?? How so? He’s doing something he likes!