Thanks for all the reminders. Especially the one about paying for flights, using Avios to reduce and getting the much valued Tier points. I’m one of those who luckily gets work Avios. So often book redemption flights not earning any Tier points strategy change from onwards.
For me its usually binary - I need tier points so tend to pay or I don't so its avios all the way... And I usually only need tier points for a month or so every two years....
Not relevant to me again, but still watch every second and still try to leave a comment for algorithmness. Cheers Matt. And you're very good at these word-heavy presentations to camera btw, making a fairly dry subject matter watchable is a real talent!
Cheers Steve - #allhailthealgorithm! I tried to find an email for you but couldn't find one... If you fancy an offline chat I'm planet at ttamsenoj dot com...
A new credit card taken here and an old one - after the required gap - taken again there, for the big bonus offers. Add Tesco Clubcard ( for Virgin and therefore Skyteam too ). Add all the Avios and Virgin you can pick up on your general spending if you try to run everything through it. Add whatever you pick up from your cash flights. Its amazing how it can mount up. What you can add from your cash flights might just be a small part of your trawler net haul, but the amount you've built up might be a surprising lot. This is exactly as it is for me. My points that come from cash flights are minimal in the mix.
You make a good point re the difference between cash seats and redemption seats at 13 minutes in. They are handled differently in BA (that I learned last year in a train crash of a booking I had with them that I had to take to the CEDR to resolve) and cash seats get the full benefit of Avios and TPs whereas redemption seats don't get that benefit and there are far fewer of them allocated to each flight. Thanks Matt
I prefer to pay and use the avios to lower the price so I get the full tier points. Would be nice to have a video on how to book on partners with avios?
Hi Ian - possibly not the best value for them, but its hard to maintain status if you don't get the occasional tier point.... The wrap-around effect of getting poor value from your avios but getting it back by not needing to run for tier points is quite interesting actually...
Great video - thanks for sharing your calculations. As a number jockey myself (finance rather than accounting), I enjoy how you walk us through the numbers. I have also found that some lower redemptions with a higher cash contribution give much better value, although my focus has been with Aeroplan at Air Canada. The lowest points level usually gets me a business class ticket in the 3-4 cents (USD) per point range, with a cash outlay that is still less than the economy ticket fare. For what it’s worth, in order to not overstate the value, I usually find a round trip cash fare that meets my dates and use half of that as the one-way fare. I do this because if I was paying cash I wouldn’t pay any premium for a one-way ticket. Really enjoy your videos - you’ve got me trying to figure out how to get OneWorld Emerald through BA tier point runs from the US!
Thanks Matt another great video. Just did some sums and the only 3 redemptions I've made since before the you-know-what were 3, 2.1 and 2.9p although that last one was using the Amex 1 for 1/2 to Australia so, still very worth it. For some reason, after the middle finger BA seems to have given gold card holders recently, squeezing as much value out of them feels more rewarding than ever. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Matt. I love this channel and it's one of the reasons I no longer do conventional network TV. Learned a lot in just these few vids, so looking forward to going thru your content - honest, straightforward but love the humour too. A++++++++++++
I was absolutely livid a month ago, I exchanged Nectar points to Avios and set up auto convert. What I didn't spot was that it automatically set up in the opposite direction. Subsequently the system dumped all my avios into my nectar account. I spoke to BA and Nectar, Both refused to take any responsibility for this and neither would reimburse me the avios I lost converting the nectar points back to Avios. So annoyed. It was far better when it was Tesco that was the partner.
The same thing happened to me. I set up auto conversion - I was certain I set it up correctly but the conversion went the other way. I lost over 4000 Avios when I converted the Nectar points back to Avios. Maybe the post office have loaned Nectar their computer. 😂
Great vid Matt, I'm planning on flying from the UK to Chicago but returning from Boston on autumn next year. Thanks to your videos I'm going to check prices from some other European cities than London!
Great video Matt just what I needed, I have close to 500k avios & keep putting off using them as I always think BA isn’t offering a good deal this has really helped to see how I get better value I might actually use them now 🙂 Thanks
BA does it make it very difficult and a lot of people won’t have the time or energy to look into it as detailed as you did. Plus, for me, i find booking websites always very stressful and that feeling of missing out on a “good” airfare always seems to creep up. 😅
I believe the competition people in the UK are looking at that booking effect where they try to spook you into booking.... Whether anything will change or not is the question. You'll never know whether the fare is going to go up or down...
Great video, im learning a lot ! I'm doing the Sri Lankan Abu Dhabi to Jakarta route, just for fun, in April. Onspired by your vids! My BA year expires in August. No tier ponts left. Any suggestion if I should create a new BA account, and what I can casually add flight wise to get silver status. Any help appreciated! I'm flying to Abu Dhabi with AF, spending 2 days there out and back. Then 3 days in Jakarta, 5 days on Belitung Island, and a few days in Yogyakarta before returning. Joys!
Lifetime tier points will reset if you open a new account... Silver will then require 600 tier points.... Your new year will start on the date of the first flight booked to the new account. Have fun in Indonesia!
Hi Matt, thank you for these videos! I even broke out my calculator at some point 😂. Incredible insight, I’ve been collecting points for ages and can finally book my return leg on a Japan trip in October business class and just worked out I’ll be getting about 2.8p per avios which isn’t too bad I guess? 😅
I used 150,000 Avios for a Qatar first class redemption from Bangkok to Manchester, it was double Avios avaliablity, cash price was £5,500 in first, £1,800 for business. So alot of avios, but felt like good value considering i got 75,000 for amex premimum sign up, and i couldnt afford the cash price for first or business
@@MattsPlanet I just got a business class return redemption for 156,500 from HEL to ICN; with minimal taxes and fees (just £56.50); £1560 at 1.0 p per avios; cash fare is €3700 (£3200)!
Hi Matt, any chance you could do a quick video on the comparison between buying a ticket with Avios Vs upgrading a ticket with Avios? seems a bit confusing when you could also just buy the equivalent class ticket with Avios that you'd otherwise be upgrading to. Or if you have a simple explanation to explain which one is generally better value in your experience, id love to hear it on here!
Its on the "to do" list... The "problem" is that the price of the ticket you're upgrading can make all the difference to whether an upgrade makes sense - in accounting terms its a "sunk cost" so it shouldn't matter but in reality it does!!!
@@MattsPlanet Thanks for the reply Matt, I look forward to seeing the content! In the meantime do you have a recommendation for which method usually makes the most financial sense if I was planning to fly business or first class on a long haul flight?
Hi Matt. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the Avios subscription model. With the upfront yearly subscription which offers 200,000 at 1989gbp, you get approximately 1 Avios for 0.99pc. Would you consider this a reasonable purchase cost? The value I see derived from this is the ease of this process and lack of time I need to spend in finding many different ways of collecting Avios when I’m not spending significant amounts through credit card - and when I consider a return flight with Qatar awards from Heathrow to say Auckland is 180,000 Avios, this flight would typically cost a minimum of 4,000gbp - so the savings are still very significant in this context.
I think its a great initiative and its a decent price. You get a slightly better price from boosting avios but you need to earn them first (from flying or credit cards) before you can boost them. Another good thing about the subscription is that BA locks in the price you pay in future years even if the price for new subscribers is higher... So even if its not the very, very best price now, by locking in it may be in the future!! If you can spend them and get value from them, its a good option. And Qatar to Auckland is about the best way of spending them I can think of!!!
@@MattsPlanet thanks for your response. Out of curiosity, what would you say is the most one should pay per Avios? The downside to this subscription option I suppose is that you receive the Avios monthly. Qatar are offering me a 50% bonus on Avios purchasing right now and it’s coming to around 1.17pc per Avios. While slightly more expensive, I get the points up front and still would represent significant savings in the about example 🤔
Hi Matt, something I cannot get my head round and I hope you can explain. My question is how to use Avios to book both legs of my journey. I can find Avios flights for the outward leg, but by the time I can see a suitable return flight, the seats for the outward flight have gone. Would you recommend booking the outward flight as soon as it becomes available, and then book a random return flight to complete the booking. And then wait for a suitable Avios return flight to become available few days later when tickets are released, then book it by calling up BA Service Desk and switch over and cancel the original booking?
Hi Sam! I replied to your email but for those watching, the general rule is "book first, sort it out later". Grab the outbound and tie in a return later on if its not available at the same time
Great video Matt. In regard to point 2, I suppose it is worthwhile to benchmark an Economy Standard fare with checked luggage if a checked bag is required, considering that is included within redemptions. Also, I know you did reference tier points earning for airfare purchases vs not receiving for redemptions, so perhaps a value should be put on the tier points earned too? Subjective I know as it depends where in your tier point earning journey you are and how essential they are to earning status
Good points Oliver... So long since I checked a bag! The tier point earning point is a complex one - most years I don't need tier point as I time my status well but I'm not sure the low value you get for avios in these situations would be worth it....
Hey Matt, my point was more around if you were 10 TP’s short of BAEC Gold then it would be worth paying for a ticket vs doing a redemption. This is based on the ability to earn TP’s and move you through status levels. As an eg a £300 flight that nets 10TP’s could be worth it if it moves you up a tier level, even if the avios reward flight presented was significant better value.
Marvellously useful as always - but for those of us that are not quite as mathematically inclined - I could not quite see how the calculation in the table worked. Perhaps I am alone in this but is there any chance you could elaborate on the detail of that please?
No worries.... So £100 is 10,000 pence (times 100) then divided by the number of avios.... So £100 for 10,000 avios is 10,000p / 10,000 so 1p per avios.
Another great video Matt. I have a question which im hoping you can help with. I am flying from Austin, TX to Washington DC this week. I booked an avios reward flight through BA as its operated by AA. It was 38,000 for economy flight there and business flight back. But on the BA website its telling me I will receive 0 Tier points for this. Is this normal?
@@MattsPlanet outrageous. I'm surprised that someone like virgin aren't scrapping their carrier imposed surcharge on reward flights, if they did their reward flights would be so unbelievably better value for points people would flock to them from competitor airlines.
I enjoy these particular videos you make and I've watched this 2-3 times now but unless I keep missing it or I'm thick, I don't understand the maths you're using? Are you taking one figure and subtracting another from it? Many thanks.
If 5,000 avios saves you £50, the maths is £50 x 100 (to turn it into pence) divided by 5000 (the number of avios). Which is 1p per avios. The "per" helps you work out which number is being divided into the other - the monetary value is before the "per" so its cost divided by avios.
@@MattsPlanet Thank you for the formula, I've been doing some maths for when me and my partner can use my 2 for 1 amex voucher I'm soon to earn, it looks like I can get anything between 2-4p per avios in value which I think it mega! Thanks again.
Great content as usual 👍 Surely these airlines should be forced to reveal what the real value is on what they are giving you for your Avios Imho it’s very cunning and manipulative offering their customers Avios redemptions at a terrible rate Yes Matt I’m fully aware that this is indeed a business but these kind of terrible deals offered to me verges on abuse 😁
The world of points is a strange one - yes they perhaps should more accurate show the value they're getting, but as long as they're not required to, people will make bad choices. Unless they watch my videos!!!
Really interesting. I've learnt a lot from this. One little comment re BA car hire - I know this vid. is about spending Avios, but if you are paying cash then I have found Avis car hire in the US to be significantly cheaper than on the Avis website. You get a reasonable amount of Avios for the spend as well.
@@MattsPlaneti recently did a BA Holiday at SFO & Avis, the website alone was 55% more expensive (I calculated flight only, then flight+car, to get the car cost)
As speedendurance says, I book on the BA web site where the flights & hotels are Matt. It seems crazy that the most expensive place to book Avis car hire is directly on their website even with Avis Preferred.
@@STORMCLOUDGREY i think if you have an AVIS Wizard number, the price drops, sometimes up to 25%. It depends on the airport and how far advanced you are booking.
Hi Matt, do you know if there is currently a way of using avios to book Finnair flights? Or is this still awaiting them to transfer their reward scheme over to avios.
I regularly redeem with Finnair through BA’s website - although LHR-HEL-LHR and nothing else. Often works out very nicely considering AY’s prices from London
They're already bookable and have been ever since they became part of OneWorld. Indeed can redeem on all OneWorld airlines plus a couple of other partner airlines. Some of the more exotic ones require you to transfer your Avios (at a 1:1 ratio) to one of the non-BA Avios schemes, such as Aer Lingus or Iberia.
There is potentially another ‘feature’ that has value in booking the 50p fares and that is if you cancel the trip, the fees you will incur will never be more than the cash paid. Ie you could cancel for 50p rather than £35.
That is an excellent point - thanks. Still doesn't make the low value for the avios worthwhile though!!! I also very rarely cancel trips so its never something I have in mind!!!
Hey Matt. I mean no disrespect by this question, but I notice you seem to have a surprisingly high number of channel members/patrons relative to your subscriber number. Is there any particular reason for that? Or perhaps I'm just misinformed about these things. As for this video, I have to confess that BA is one program I am less knowledgeable about and have never used for a redemption, so I appreciate gaining some of your insights.
Thanks Bruce! No disrespect perceived - thanks for noticing! My Patreon offering has connected well, particularly the access to the WhatsApp community which is absolutely thriving!
Great video Matt. Many thanks. I will be looking at how using the 'Oslo' formula will work for long haul Avios redemptions. Mainly the LHR-LAX routing or whether it would be better to vary getting to the west coast.
Hi Matt, Barclay/card vouchers. Could you cover them in a later video? I found the voucher difficult to get good value from so on my last two opportunities have select the 7000 avois instead. A slot in a video covering and discussing the options would be useful. Thanks.
Hi Matt I am a subscriber of your channel I just keep replaying your video, but I just do not understand the Avio system My wife and I travel overseas once a year, generally from Australia to Europe Next year I am flying to Munich, with Lufthansa, then in Europe I am flying with Lufthansa to Rome, then Greece from Rome with Aegean, then back to Munich from Greece with Lufthansa, then back to Australia Do I get any Avios with this or not really? We are both Qantas Frequent flyers, and Agean Miles + Points If you can help a simple person like myself great, if not, all good What I have neglected to tell you is, the Melbourne to Munich leg, and Munich back to Melbourne is in Premium Economy, all travel within Europe is Business, Is there any way we can use the Business lounges on the long haul flights Hope you had a great Christmas, and wishing you a happy New Year, and safe travels And we both like your channel and we always view and like your content Thank you Chris
Hi Chris. Every airline has a "currency" within their frequent flyer system that members collect and then can spend. BA's is called avios, Qantas calls them Qantas Points. You earn those points flying with the primary airline or with a partner airline in the alliance that airline is in (both Qantas and BA are in OneWorld). And you need to be a member of the frequent flyer scheme (and have that number in the booking) to collect points. And most schemes allow you to gather avios without flying, such as from credit cards. So as the airlines you mention are all in Star Alliance, there's no avios. If you put your Miles and More account number into the booking you'll gather Aegean's points from those flights. As for lounges, if you have status they'll let you in, otherwise PE won't qualify...
I've found my comfort zone: reach status via Tom, earn miles via Dick and then spend miles (if and when I want to) via Harry. By the way, I've finally made the video I've always wanted you to watch. So now you can watch it, comment, analyse, calculate, etc. and let me know if it, in fact, can be an option for European tier point runners flying BA, Iberia and Finnair on short hauls. - Red
I did! Very interesting - can't remember coming across an airline where the base status does not require any flying on that airline - Aegean does allow you to get status without ever flying them but its much quicker if you do! My instinct is that North American flyers perhaps have more opportunity to rack up the legs that Euro travellers probably do, but I think it is an interesting option...
I shudder to think about all the waste of points over the years. Care to share the spreadsheet or the maths to work out the value per Avios (aveus? havheoss?)?
Thanks - I remember reading that the most profitable part of a casino operation are the chips people take home as souvenirs.... Literally 99% profit! I guess unused avios are the same.... I am planning a section of my website which contains tables you can use for the maths bit...
You comment on the fact that you get tier points and earned Avios for paying for a flight (even if base price reduced by Avios) but one thing to be aware of is is the enhanced cancellation options if you flight booking starts its life as an Avios booking viz-a-viz one paid for with cash where your options are normally very limited
Very good point - a £35 cancellation penalty is good to have... But people have complained to me that they booked a seat expecting tier points and got none - as they actually booked a redemption..
@@MattsPlanet the price for the two flights is currently showing at £15,404. Don’t think it was that high when I booked, so it depends somewhat on how you look at it 🤷♂️
Thanks for the video. At 11:30 the business tables still have economy cash fares in I think? Either way, well explained 👍 Even simpler, I tend to take the 1p per Avios price (never buying them for more than this) and add it to the cash element to deduce the best value option of a reward - comparing this to the cash price of course, and bearing in mind the Avios to be awarded from flying on a cash ticket. This assumes being fairly liquid to spend Avios or cash without preference or limit of course.
Thank you Matt for a valuable video. What would be your threshold numbers of Avios that you would be tempted to spend on redemption? I have accumulated around 38k Avios so far. And I do not have an affiliated credit card that would earn me more Avios at the moment.
Cheers Vic. It really depends on how often you fly - perhaps go back over a few past trips and see what sort of value you would have achieved - the avios redemption cost doesn't change so you can dig out the data... Of course you'll not be able to tell if a redemption seat was available when you booked but you'll get an idea of what you can achieve... Then when you're planning the next trip, do the calc and see if it makes sense. If you don't have many, you want a higher rate for each one you redeem so I'd say perhaps 2p each is the least you'd want to achieve...
95k Avios + $208 (USD) for SFO-BKK in QSuites and A380 business class. It is a ridiculous $7700 flight. Its the long way to Bangkok but I am sure it will be an experience!
I calculate the value of Avios points, or the like, differently. I calculate the discount I would be getting per flight if I only spent my points on redemption flights. I fly the same route every single week. Suppose each round trip flight costs $1000, and with the points I can accumulate I can get 5 flights for free every year, then the cost per flight becomes: 47000/52=903, meaning I got a 10% discount. Real life examples: when I fly on Turkish airlines, and use all my points on redemption flights, I end up getting about a 5% discount on the cost of every flight. When I fly on KLM, the flights are more expensive, but I get about a 15% discount per flight. Interestingly, KLM still ends up being more expensive per flight. I'm very curious to find out what sort of discount per flight I would be getting if I flew on BA. Any idea? Love your work.
Thanks. The economics of Turkish and KLM points is likely to be different but I'd expect BA to work out similarly. The key to BA for me is that you can acquire avios from many other sources than just flying - less than 1% of my avios come that way
When buying the economy cash ticket for a European flight BA does not include luggage, needs to be taken into account when booking as all avios tickets include luggage
Bit of a grey area I reckon but out of interest has BA/Amex ever addressed how you can withdraw from your Amex using PayPal essentially generating avios for free? Thanks
I gather Amex has processes and teams looking for this sort of abuse. I've heard stories of people having their cards cancelled and MR points seized for doing this sort of thing
@@MattsPlanet assume you also received an email from BA the other day offering 200 tier points for 25k Amex spend until 20th May 2024. Might be content worthy 👍🏻 Spend £15,000 and earn 100 Tier Points. Spend £20,000 and earn an additional 50 Tier Points. Spend £25,000 and enjoy an extra 50 Tier Points.
@@ekuljsy I did indeed see that. Hard to get excited about as it's a lot of money... A slightly worrying precedent though.... Might crop up in a video soon!!
@@MattsPlanetI’d be interested to know why you might regard this as a worrying precedent? I was super excited, it’s the only way to get tier points without flying!
I think you mean midnight, which is actually 1am for 6 months of the year because of summer time.... I've never actually done that although I think I should so I can make a video about it! I've never had trouble finding suitable availability for redemptions, although I'm extremely flexible on destination and the day of travel...
@@MattsPlanet yep midnight lol typical Brit who has lived in the US to long lol. I’m planning a trip with a lot of moving parts and not much flexibility. At the min looking at paying for outbound trip from LAX - Nadi (4 days). Nadi - Sydney (prob with Fiji airways). Cruise in Oz/NZ, then fly directly back from Sydney - Lon/LAX using Avios (BA/Qantas etc) and thenback to Tampa following overnight.
Thanks for all the reminders.
Especially the one about paying for flights, using Avios to reduce and getting the much valued Tier points.
I’m one of those who luckily gets work Avios. So often book redemption flights not earning any Tier points strategy change from onwards.
For me its usually binary - I need tier points so tend to pay or I don't so its avios all the way... And I usually only need tier points for a month or so every two years....
Not relevant to me again, but still watch every second and still try to leave a comment for algorithmness. Cheers Matt. And you're very good at these word-heavy presentations to camera btw, making a fairly dry subject matter watchable is a real talent!
Cheers Steve - #allhailthealgorithm! I tried to find an email for you but couldn't find one... If you fancy an offline chat I'm planet at ttamsenoj dot com...
A new credit card taken here and an old one - after the required gap - taken again there, for the big bonus offers. Add Tesco Clubcard ( for Virgin and therefore Skyteam too ). Add all the Avios and Virgin you can pick up on your general spending if you try to run everything through it. Add whatever you pick up from your cash flights. Its amazing how it can mount up. What you can add from your cash flights might just be a small part of your trawler net haul, but the amount you've built up might be a surprising lot. This is exactly as it is for me. My points that come from cash flights are minimal in the mix.
Very, very helpful. Yes, I tend to look at the value, but this has given me a much more quantitative way of doing it, so very helpful indeed 👍
Thanks - spend those avios wisely!
You make a good point re the difference between cash seats and redemption seats at 13 minutes in. They are handled differently in BA (that I learned last year in a train crash of a booking I had with them that I had to take to the CEDR to resolve) and cash seats get the full benefit of Avios and TPs whereas redemption seats don't get that benefit and there are far fewer of them allocated to each flight. Thanks Matt
Spot on - hope you won the CEDR!
@@MattsPlanet oh yes... very satisfied with the result.
@MattsPlanet in fact... it might be a good topic for a video, Matt...
Brilliant video - I've been searching for this analysis!
Hope it helped!
I prefer to pay and use the avios to lower the price so I get the full tier points.
Would be nice to have a video on how to book on partners with avios?
Hi Ian - possibly not the best value for them, but its hard to maintain status if you don't get the occasional tier point.... The wrap-around effect of getting poor value from your avios but getting it back by not needing to run for tier points is quite interesting actually...
Great video - thanks for sharing your calculations. As a number jockey myself (finance rather than accounting), I enjoy how you walk us through the numbers.
I have also found that some lower redemptions with a higher cash contribution give much better value, although my focus has been with Aeroplan at Air Canada. The lowest points level usually gets me a business class ticket in the 3-4 cents (USD) per point range, with a cash outlay that is still less than the economy ticket fare.
For what it’s worth, in order to not overstate the value, I usually find a round trip cash fare that meets my dates and use half of that as the one-way fare. I do this because if I was paying cash I wouldn’t pay any premium for a one-way ticket.
Really enjoy your videos - you’ve got me trying to figure out how to get OneWorld Emerald through BA tier point runs from the US!
Thanks - not looked in detail at the Aeroplan scheme but I perhaps should as a lot of people rate it...
Excellent Matt. Thank you 👍👏👏👏👏👏
I tend to use my Avios for upgrading seat. Any plans to cover this topic?
It's often decent value - something I should cover in a video actually....
Yes please Matt as I would use my Avios only on upgrades
Thanks Matt another great video. Just did some sums and the only 3 redemptions I've made since before the you-know-what were 3, 2.1 and 2.9p although that last one was using the Amex 1 for 1/2 to Australia so, still very worth it. For some reason, after the middle finger BA seems to have given gold card holders recently, squeezing as much value out of them feels more rewarding than ever. Keep up the good work!
Thanks so much! Good redeeming!
Thank you Matt. I love this channel and it's one of the reasons I no longer do conventional network TV. Learned a lot in just these few vids, so looking forward to going thru your content - honest, straightforward but love the humour too. A++++++++++++
Not sure I quite compete with EastEnders, but thanks for the sentiment!
I was absolutely livid a month ago, I exchanged Nectar points to Avios and set up auto convert. What I didn't spot was that it automatically set up in the opposite direction. Subsequently the system dumped all my avios into my nectar account. I spoke to BA and Nectar, Both refused to take any responsibility for this and neither would reimburse me the avios I lost converting the nectar points back to Avios. So annoyed. It was far better when it was Tesco that was the partner.
That's terrible... And expensive...
The same thing happened to me. I set up auto conversion - I was certain I set it up correctly but the conversion went the other way. I lost over 4000 Avios when I converted the Nectar points back to Avios. Maybe the post office have loaned Nectar their computer. 😂
Great vid Matt, I'm planning on flying from the UK to Chicago but returning from Boston on autumn next year. Thanks to your videos I'm going to check prices from some other European cities than London!
Dublin has been good lately, as is Budapest.... Doesn't take long to work your way through all of them though!
@@MattsPlanet Thanks Matt, I'll have a good look around!
Thanks for the info + video!
Cheers Jimmy
More spreadsheets!!!! YES SIR. As usual, great content, well explained, crystal clear!
Thank you Matt!
You know me and spreadsheets!!!
Love what you do - Sending the video to a friend who needs to learn just this!
Thanks! Every view counts...
Great video Matt just what I needed, I have close to 500k avios & keep putting off using them as I always think BA isn’t offering a good deal this has really helped to see how I get better value I might actually use them now 🙂 Thanks
You are very welcome. Happy spending!
Thanks for this :) Very informative and useful!
Hope it helped!
BA does it make it very difficult and a lot of people won’t have the time or energy to look into it as detailed as you did. Plus, for me, i find booking websites always very stressful and that feeling of missing out on a “good” airfare always seems to creep up. 😅
I believe the competition people in the UK are looking at that booking effect where they try to spook you into booking.... Whether anything will change or not is the question. You'll never know whether the fare is going to go up or down...
Great video, im learning a lot !
I'm doing the Sri Lankan Abu Dhabi to Jakarta route, just for fun, in April. Onspired by your vids!
My BA year expires in August. No tier ponts left.
Any suggestion if I should create a new BA account, and what I can casually add flight wise to get silver status.
Any help appreciated!
I'm flying to Abu Dhabi with AF, spending 2 days there out and back. Then 3 days in Jakarta, 5 days on Belitung Island, and a few days in Yogyakarta before returning.
Joys!
Lifetime tier points will reset if you open a new account... Silver will then require 600 tier points.... Your new year will start on the date of the first flight booked to the new account. Have fun in Indonesia!
Hi Matt, thank you for these videos! I even broke out my calculator at some point 😂. Incredible insight, I’ve been collecting points for ages and can finally book my return leg on a Japan trip in October business class and just worked out I’ll be getting about 2.8p per avios which isn’t too bad I guess? 😅
That's pretty good value - congrats!
I used 150,000 Avios for a Qatar first class redemption from Bangkok to Manchester, it was double Avios avaliablity, cash price was £5,500 in first, £1,800 for business. So alot of avios, but felt like good value considering i got 75,000 for amex premimum sign up, and i couldnt afford the cash price for first or business
That's very respectable. First class too... As long as you were happy with the redemption that's all that matters at the end of the day !
@@MattsPlanet I just got a business class return redemption for 156,500 from HEL to ICN; with minimal taxes and fees (just £56.50); £1560 at 1.0 p per avios; cash fare is €3700 (£3200)!
Interesting video. Would you consider doing a comparison video between the British Airways Avios scheme and Virgin Atlantics Flying Club?
Thanks Michael - not a bad idea actually....
Hi Matt, any chance you could do a quick video on the comparison between buying a ticket with Avios Vs upgrading a ticket with Avios? seems a bit confusing when you could also just buy the equivalent class ticket with Avios that you'd otherwise be upgrading to. Or if you have a simple explanation to explain which one is generally better value in your experience, id love to hear it on here!
Its on the "to do" list... The "problem" is that the price of the ticket you're upgrading can make all the difference to whether an upgrade makes sense - in accounting terms its a "sunk cost" so it shouldn't matter but in reality it does!!!
@@MattsPlanet Thanks for the reply Matt, I look forward to seeing the content! In the meantime do you have a recommendation for which method usually makes the most financial sense if I was planning to fly business or first class on a long haul flight?
Hi Matt. I just wanted to get your thoughts on the Avios subscription model. With the upfront yearly subscription which offers 200,000 at 1989gbp, you get approximately 1 Avios for 0.99pc. Would you consider this a reasonable purchase cost? The value I see derived from this is the ease of this process and lack of time I need to spend in finding many different ways of collecting Avios when I’m not spending significant amounts through credit card - and when I consider a return flight with Qatar awards from Heathrow to say Auckland is 180,000 Avios, this flight would typically cost a minimum of 4,000gbp - so the savings are still very significant in this context.
I think its a great initiative and its a decent price. You get a slightly better price from boosting avios but you need to earn them first (from flying or credit cards) before you can boost them. Another good thing about the subscription is that BA locks in the price you pay in future years even if the price for new subscribers is higher... So even if its not the very, very best price now, by locking in it may be in the future!! If you can spend them and get value from them, its a good option. And Qatar to Auckland is about the best way of spending them I can think of!!!
@@MattsPlanet thanks for your response. Out of curiosity, what would you say is the most one should pay per Avios? The downside to this subscription option I suppose is that you receive the Avios monthly. Qatar are offering me a 50% bonus on Avios purchasing right now and it’s coming to around 1.17pc per Avios. While slightly more expensive, I get the points up front and still would represent significant savings in the about example 🤔
Hi Matt, something I cannot get my head round and I hope you can explain. My question is how to use Avios to book both legs of my journey. I can find Avios flights for the outward leg, but by the time I can see a suitable return flight, the seats for the outward flight have gone. Would you recommend booking the outward flight as soon as it becomes available, and then book a random return flight to complete the booking. And then wait for a suitable Avios return flight to become available few days later when tickets are released, then book it by calling up BA Service Desk and switch over and cancel the original booking?
Hi Sam! I replied to your email but for those watching, the general rule is "book first, sort it out later". Grab the outbound and tie in a return later on if its not available at the same time
Great video Matt. In regard to point 2, I suppose it is worthwhile to benchmark an Economy Standard fare with checked luggage if a checked bag is required, considering that is included within redemptions.
Also, I know you did reference tier points earning for airfare purchases vs not receiving for redemptions, so perhaps a value should be put on the tier points earned too? Subjective I know as it depends where in your tier point earning journey you are and how essential they are to earning status
Good points Oliver... So long since I checked a bag! The tier point earning point is a complex one - most years I don't need tier point as I time my status well but I'm not sure the low value you get for avios in these situations would be worth it....
Hey Matt, my point was more around if you were 10 TP’s short of BAEC Gold then it would be worth paying for a ticket vs doing a redemption. This is based on the ability to earn TP’s and move you through status levels. As an eg a £300 flight that nets 10TP’s could be worth it if it moves you up a tier level, even if the avios reward flight presented was significant better value.
Marvellously useful as always - but for those of us that are not quite as mathematically inclined - I could not quite see how the calculation in the table worked. Perhaps I am alone in this but is there any chance you could elaborate on the detail of that please?
No worries.... So £100 is 10,000 pence (times 100) then divided by the number of avios.... So £100 for 10,000 avios is 10,000p / 10,000 so 1p per avios.
Another great video Matt. I have a question which im hoping you can help with. I am flying from Austin, TX to Washington DC this week. I booked an avios reward flight through BA as its operated by AA. It was 38,000 for economy flight there and business flight back. But on the BA website its telling me I will receive 0 Tier points for this. Is this normal?
As I say in the video, any seat acquired via the redemption pathway do not earn tier points. So that, sadly, is correct. No avios either.
@@MattsPlanet outrageous. I'm surprised that someone like virgin aren't scrapping their carrier imposed surcharge on reward flights, if they did their reward flights would be so unbelievably better value for points people would flock to them from competitor airlines.
@@038kp virgin are about the only airline I know that gives status points on redemptions... But their taxes are high
I enjoy these particular videos you make and I've watched this 2-3 times now but unless I keep missing it or I'm thick, I don't understand the maths you're using?
Are you taking one figure and subtracting another from it? Many thanks.
If 5,000 avios saves you £50, the maths is £50 x 100 (to turn it into pence) divided by 5000 (the number of avios). Which is 1p per avios. The "per" helps you work out which number is being divided into the other - the monetary value is before the "per" so its cost divided by avios.
@@MattsPlanet Thank you for the formula, I've been doing some maths for when me and my partner can use my 2 for 1 amex voucher I'm soon to earn, it looks like I can get anything between 2-4p per avios in value which I think it mega! Thanks again.
Great content as usual 👍
Surely these airlines should be forced to reveal what the real value is on what they are giving you for your Avios
Imho it’s very cunning and manipulative offering their customers Avios redemptions at a terrible rate
Yes Matt I’m fully aware that this is indeed a business but these kind of terrible deals offered to me verges on abuse 😁
The world of points is a strange one - yes they perhaps should more accurate show the value they're getting, but as long as they're not required to, people will make bad choices. Unless they watch my videos!!!
Really interesting. I've learnt a lot from this. One little comment re BA car hire - I know this vid. is about spending Avios, but if you are paying cash then I have found Avis car hire in the US to be significantly cheaper than on the Avis website. You get a reasonable amount of Avios for the spend as well.
Top tip - you book directly through avis to get the better price??
@@MattsPlaneti recently did a BA Holiday at SFO & Avis, the website alone was 55% more expensive (I calculated flight only, then flight+car, to get the car cost)
As speedendurance says, I book on the BA web site where the flights & hotels are Matt. It seems crazy that the most expensive place to book Avis car hire is directly on their website even with Avis Preferred.
@@STORMCLOUDGREY i think if you have an AVIS Wizard number, the price drops, sometimes up to 25%. It depends on the airport and how far advanced you are booking.
Hi Matt, do you know if there is currently a way of using avios to book Finnair flights? Or is this still awaiting them to transfer their reward scheme over to avios.
I regularly redeem with Finnair through BA’s website - although LHR-HEL-LHR and nothing else. Often works out very nicely considering AY’s prices from London
As Ryan says, some will be bookable through BA but the rest will come with the adoption of avios
Thanks guys!
They're already bookable and have been ever since they became part of OneWorld. Indeed can redeem on all OneWorld airlines plus a couple of other partner airlines. Some of the more exotic ones require you to transfer your Avios (at a 1:1 ratio) to one of the non-BA Avios schemes, such as Aer Lingus or Iberia.
There is potentially another ‘feature’ that has value in booking the 50p fares and that is if you cancel the trip, the fees you will incur will never be more than the cash paid. Ie you could cancel for 50p rather than £35.
That is an excellent point - thanks. Still doesn't make the low value for the avios worthwhile though!!! I also very rarely cancel trips so its never something I have in mind!!!
@@MattsPlanet yes, agree.
Hey Matt. I mean no disrespect by this question, but I notice you seem to have a surprisingly high number of channel members/patrons relative to your subscriber number. Is there any particular reason for that? Or perhaps I'm just misinformed about these things. As for this video, I have to confess that BA is one program I am less knowledgeable about and have never used for a redemption, so I appreciate gaining some of your insights.
Thanks Bruce! No disrespect perceived - thanks for noticing! My Patreon offering has connected well, particularly the access to the WhatsApp community which is absolutely thriving!
Great video Matt. Many thanks. I will be looking at how using the 'Oslo' formula will work for long haul Avios redemptions. Mainly the LHR-LAX routing or whether it would be better to vary getting to the west coast.
Oslo or Dublin or Budapest... From London will never price up well!!
Hi Matt, Barclay/card vouchers. Could you cover them in a later video? I found the voucher difficult to get good value from so on my last two opportunities have select the 7000 avois instead. A slot in a video covering and discussing the options would be useful. Thanks.
Not a bad idea - will see what I can do!!
Yeah do it t
@@milabaden-powell1524 Will release a video about this on the 14th...
Matt-how do I find details of patreon membership and what is it?
Ha ha! Visit patreon.com/matts_planet and have a look. You will be more than welcome!!
Hi Matt
I am a subscriber of your channel
I just keep replaying your video, but I just do not understand the Avio system
My wife and I travel overseas once a year, generally from Australia to Europe
Next year I am flying to Munich, with Lufthansa, then in Europe I am flying with Lufthansa to Rome, then Greece from Rome with Aegean, then back to Munich from Greece with Lufthansa, then back to Australia
Do I get any Avios with this or not really?
We are both Qantas Frequent flyers, and Agean Miles + Points
If you can help a simple person like myself great, if not, all good
What I have neglected to tell you is, the Melbourne to Munich leg, and Munich back to Melbourne is in Premium Economy, all travel within Europe is Business, Is there any way we can use the Business lounges on the long haul flights
Hope you had a great Christmas, and wishing you a happy New Year, and safe travels
And we both like your channel and we always view and like your content
Thank you
Chris
Hi Chris. Every airline has a "currency" within their frequent flyer system that members collect and then can spend. BA's is called avios, Qantas calls them Qantas Points. You earn those points flying with the primary airline or with a partner airline in the alliance that airline is in (both Qantas and BA are in OneWorld). And you need to be a member of the frequent flyer scheme (and have that number in the booking) to collect points. And most schemes allow you to gather avios without flying, such as from credit cards. So as the airlines you mention are all in Star Alliance, there's no avios. If you put your Miles and More account number into the booking you'll gather Aegean's points from those flights. As for lounges, if you have status they'll let you in, otherwise PE won't qualify...
@@MattsPlanet Hi Matt, now that makes sense to me and totally understand it, thank you for simplifying it for me
Thank you
I've found my comfort zone: reach status via Tom, earn miles via Dick and then spend miles (if and when I want to) via Harry. By the way, I've finally made the video I've always wanted you to watch. So now you can watch it, comment, analyse, calculate, etc. and let me know if it, in fact, can be an option for European tier point runners flying BA, Iberia and Finnair on short hauls.
- Red
I did! Very interesting - can't remember coming across an airline where the base status does not require any flying on that airline - Aegean does allow you to get status without ever flying them but its much quicker if you do! My instinct is that North American flyers perhaps have more opportunity to rack up the legs that Euro travellers probably do, but I think it is an interesting option...
I shudder to think about all the waste of points over the years. Care to share the spreadsheet or the maths to work out the value per Avios (aveus? havheoss?)?
Thanks - I remember reading that the most profitable part of a casino operation are the chips people take home as souvenirs.... Literally 99% profit! I guess unused avios are the same.... I am planning a section of my website which contains tables you can use for the maths bit...
You comment on the fact that you get tier points and earned Avios for paying for a flight (even if base price reduced by Avios) but one thing to be aware of is is the enhanced cancellation options if you flight booking starts its life as an Avios booking viz-a-viz one paid for with cash where your options are normally very limited
Very good point - a £35 cancellation penalty is good to have... But people have complained to me that they booked a seat expecting tier points and got none - as they actually booked a redemption..
Hi Matt great video as usual. Do you have an Excel sheet with the formula already inputted that you could share please? Thank you.
I'm hoping to make it available on my website...
@@MattsPlanet Okay great, thank you very much.
Damn what a great video!
Damn what a great comment!
Just calculated I got 11.1p per avios on 2 biz class returns to Cape Town in Jan (using a twofer). Not bad!
That's superb!
@@MattsPlanet the price for the two flights is currently showing at £15,404. Don’t think it was that high when I booked, so it depends somewhat on how you look at it 🤷♂️
Thanks for the video. At 11:30 the business tables still have economy cash fares in I think? Either way, well explained 👍 Even simpler, I tend to take the 1p per Avios price (never buying them for more than this) and add it to the cash element to deduce the best value option of a reward - comparing this to the cash price of course, and bearing in mind the Avios to be awarded from flying on a cash ticket. This assumes being fairly liquid to spend Avios or cash without preference or limit of course.
That's a good shortcut and you should get the right answer using that method
Thank you Matt for a valuable video. What would be your threshold numbers of Avios that you would be tempted to spend on redemption? I have accumulated around 38k Avios so far. And I do not have an affiliated credit card that would earn me more Avios at the moment.
Cheers Vic. It really depends on how often you fly - perhaps go back over a few past trips and see what sort of value you would have achieved - the avios redemption cost doesn't change so you can dig out the data... Of course you'll not be able to tell if a redemption seat was available when you booked but you'll get an idea of what you can achieve... Then when you're planning the next trip, do the calc and see if it makes sense. If you don't have many, you want a higher rate for each one you redeem so I'd say perhaps 2p each is the least you'd want to achieve...
95k Avios + $208 (USD) for SFO-BKK in QSuites and A380 business class. It is a ridiculous $7700 flight. Its the long way to Bangkok but I am sure it will be an experience!
Some Qatar redemptions are exceptional value - if you can find reward availability... Takes patience but it's there!
I calculate the value of Avios points, or the like, differently. I calculate the discount I would be getting per flight if I only spent my points on redemption flights.
I fly the same route every single week. Suppose each round trip flight costs $1000, and with the points I can accumulate I can get 5 flights for free every year, then the cost per flight becomes: 47000/52=903, meaning I got a 10% discount.
Real life examples: when I fly on Turkish airlines, and use all my points on redemption flights, I end up getting about a 5% discount on the cost of every flight. When I fly on KLM, the flights are more expensive, but I get about a 15% discount per flight. Interestingly, KLM still ends up being more expensive per flight.
I'm very curious to find out what sort of discount per flight I would be getting if I flew on BA. Any idea? Love your work.
Thanks. The economics of Turkish and KLM points is likely to be different but I'd expect BA to work out similarly. The key to BA for me is that you can acquire avios from many other sources than just flying - less than 1% of my avios come that way
@@MattsPlanet Very interesting! I'll need to look at some of your other videos to figure out how you go about doing that. Thanks for the reply.
Hey, lets have a beer when you come over!
Sadly this is a hypothetical trip but next time I'm in Oslo I will certainly shout!
Hi, it may be stupid of me to ask but what is the math to work out the “value per Avios” if anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated
It's the price paid (in pounds) x 100 (to convert it into pence) divided by the number of avios. That gives you pence per avios
The redemptions will bite you if you are trying to hold status with 4x flights.
I was almost caught this year, as it's been quiet.
Indeed - you still need to buy a seat every few years to maintain the status
I bought a ticket for my wife by using 28.000 Avios pls £70 and the cash price was £210. I feel robbed atm
If it was a mistake, the key is to not make the same mistake twice!!!!!
When buying the economy cash ticket for a European flight BA does not include luggage, needs to be taken into account when booking as all avios tickets include luggage
Good point... Although I can't remember the last time I checked a bag!
@@MattsPlanet the other advantage of avios over base cash tickets is the flexibility to change/cancel... For me this is very valuable
MY HEAD IS SPINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a drink - I'm told it helps!!!
i was drinking maccallen at the time@@MattsPlanet
Bit of a grey area I reckon but out of interest has BA/Amex ever addressed how you can withdraw from your Amex using PayPal essentially generating avios for free? Thanks
I gather Amex has processes and teams looking for this sort of abuse. I've heard stories of people having their cards cancelled and MR points seized for doing this sort of thing
@@MattsPlanet asking for a friend obv. Thanks Matt
@@MattsPlanet assume you also received an email from BA the other day offering 200 tier points for 25k Amex spend until 20th May 2024. Might be content worthy 👍🏻
Spend £15,000 and earn 100 Tier Points.
Spend £20,000 and earn an additional 50 Tier Points.
Spend £25,000 and enjoy an extra 50 Tier Points.
@@ekuljsy I did indeed see that. Hard to get excited about as it's a lot of money... A slightly worrying precedent though.... Might crop up in a video soon!!
@@MattsPlanetI’d be interested to know why you might regard this as a worrying precedent? I was super excited, it’s the only way to get tier points without flying!
Can you break down the maths fully?
Not sure I can do it any other way... It's the fare (in pounds) x 100 (to turn it into pence) / the avios to produce a pence per avios cost....
Matt, are you one of those who waits till midday on a certain day to snap up a reward flight. Or is there another way…
I think you mean midnight, which is actually 1am for 6 months of the year because of summer time.... I've never actually done that although I think I should so I can make a video about it! I've never had trouble finding suitable availability for redemptions, although I'm extremely flexible on destination and the day of travel...
@@MattsPlanet yep midnight lol typical Brit who has lived in the US to long lol. I’m planning a trip with a lot of moving parts and not much flexibility. At the min looking at paying for outbound trip from LAX - Nadi (4 days). Nadi - Sydney (prob with Fiji airways). Cruise in Oz/NZ, then fly directly back from Sydney - Lon/LAX using Avios (BA/Qantas etc) and thenback to Tampa following overnight.
Avois or Avioooos
The eternal question....