One deleted scene was Snoke noting Kylo Ren had compassion for Rey and that his failure was due to his weakness not her strength. It was a pity because its inclusion would have make sense in the Kylo Ren/Rey fight. He lost because he held himself back out of affection for Rey.
Harriscandoit He had disdain for and a much deeper reason (Dark side power) to kill his father. He had compassion for Rey, and had no motive to actually increase his Dark Side power (he already knew that it weakened him to kill people he cared for).
I just had an idea. People complain about the interrogation scene and the fact that Rey was able to resist. But Kylo was actually reading her mind and seeing in her past. Maybe he sees something disturbing that makes him feel for her and give up his own deffenses. That's when he, not knowing, let her in his own mind.
@@ChristopherCerda42 except Vader didn't lose to Luke in Empire. He backed luke in a corner and gave him a choice. Rey SLICED Ren on his face and grounded him! He lost. She could have killed him if it weren't for the base about to blow. There's no theory, just Disney promoting their new SW mascot.
1) Shot by Chewie 2) Emotional trauma from killing his father 3) Clearly isn't trying to kill Rey, "Bring her to me" 4) You can actually watch Kylo Ren stop trying when they're locked together at the end, probs because of #2
i think the main problem why so many people are dissapointed with kylo is their high expectation. i mean untill this movie, every time we saw a sith or a dark jedi, they were presented very strong and nearly overpowered so that only great jedi-masters were capable of beating them. but kylo is not nearly as strong. he is not fully trained and only a student not even close to a master. and beside this he also suffered two extreme heavy traumata before his fight with rey, one physical nature, one psychological nature: The bowcaster wound from chewy and the death of his father han solo. so i totaly agree with you and your explanation of the fight.
People it's just stupid about this topic, and it's mostly because most of star wars fans haven't been involved into a real fight yet. I'm a fighter (a boxer) and what Stupendous says about the rounds it's totally true. You could bring Tyson at his best shape of his life, but I asure you if he fought about 12 rounds, after that he could get defeated by almost any lesser fighter, hell even by an amateur who knows how to defend himself. I will put another example: Kylo was injured. Let's suppose his force abilities grant him the power to survive and even feel less pain... so now let's suppose I, a pro fighter, get's stabbed with a knife in the gut. I can swear to god that even a grandpa with no fighting experience could knock me down after that and I would even die afterwards... and I said a stab wound because that's more likely what Kylo felt in that moment, since he was injuried with a more severe wound but he diminished the pain with the force = stabb wound (for me) and even in that case it's almost impossible to keep fighting. And yes, I know this is star wars and "this is sci fantasy", but in that regard people wouldn't complain about a girl winning a fight, you try to apply real life fact to understand how she won, and I answer with real life examples: it's totally possible.
histatimaniples try to fight a 20 year old girl who deadlifts 160 pounds (Daisy Ridley lifts that) with a stab wound in the gut or the liver and then we talk. I insist: people underestimate pain and injuries a lot.
i agree with you bro but i feel like he is only going to be that "weak" or "untrained" in The Force Awakens. I think that in the next movie his abilities with jump tremendously.
Agreed. Any normal Jedi or i guess Sith would never even get touched by a non jedi in a light saber duel. Even with his training with that baton, Fin never should have gotten close to touching him. He would have been immobilized by the force. I could have fended off her attacked and killed her before she meditated. The way she telegraphed her stab move showed her inexperience. When she had her back to the chasm and was on the heels of her feet, kylo simply could have force shoved her off in a split second. That all being said, I was totally fine with it all! I love the duel at the end and i've watched it probably 20 times at least. It didn't ruin it for me at all. It was an excellent movie.
Why did Rey read Kylo's mind than when he captured her ? This is just a movie.They made Rey a Mary Sue and they made all men,weak stupid idiots who lose to Rey cause they are fucking sexists.
despite this explanation, im still very upset. This is rey's first time using this weapon. She hasn't even practiced with it. Obi-wan even said that it was an elegant weapon, not as clumsy or random as a blaster. Which means it required focus and many practice sessions. Even Luke was horrible with it to begin with. Meanwhile although Kylo hasn't had much hand-to-hand combat, im sure he has had many practice sessions. My problem isn't with his lack of skill (he actually does have skill) its the fact Rey has too much skill. This is her first time picking up a lightsaber and using it. A lightsaber handles differently and weighs differently than other weapons she's used. Its like giving a expert in broadsword combat a katana to fight with. Sure they do have some basic knowledge, but they won't be as good as they were with a broadsword because they aren't used to a katana. This is a lot like Rey, and its shown inaccurately. And its not because of the force or some bs. The Jedi would have to train multiple sessions to learn how to fuel their dueling through the force. She has little to no experience with either. It's just... so upsetting. I could understand they duel but she only fends him off in order to get finn to safety and it would end up being like a Vader scene where Ren watches on the ground as they take off, angry that she escaped his imminent victory. To me that would be much more satisfying.
Oh believe me dude. I can asure you that if you stab mike Tyson with a knife on his leg, and then you tried to melee him, even you could bring him down. I know what I'm talking about, people underestimate wounds a lot and that's ok, but people who have lived this will be surprised Kylo was able to walk, and the only reason he didn't die it's thanks to the force.
Francisco Arcos 1: Why bring him up specifically? 2: Mike Tike doesn't have the force. 3: Kylo was ready for her. It wasn't really a surprise attack. Unless you've buffed up, or attack him stealthily, you aren't going to stab him. Rey did neither. She didn't have any experience or actual skill (strength) with a lightsaber.... or even the force, or tried to surprise attack him (stealth)
Mega Guy43 Oh my god, a fucking Feminist. (I don't know if you are or not, but i don't give a fuck) If you think i said all that because she's female, you're fucking stupid. I didn't say anything to do with her gender. so shut the fuck up and next time think about it before you make irrational accusations.
TheMock5000 1-Because I'm a boxer and for the matter serves as an example (If I talked about Martin you wouldn't know about him). 2-Mike doesn't have the force, that's why I talk about a stab wound and not a fucking bowcaster shot in the gut (which I think would be similar to a shotgun). 3-It doesn't matter how ready he was, with him being as he was he would have lost to almost anyone. I bring examples from real life because people try to explain with real life logic how silly was the fact that he lost, and believe me: by real life logic he's luky to be alive.
It's kind of misused. It originally means the writer putting themselves in the work and not be questioned. Now people think it means invulnerable female.
It's a literary word, you hear it from critics and readers all the time because they're so many damn mary sues in literature lol and Morty Sue's for guys, that's what I call them at least
Rey won because it's a modern PG-13 rated American film directed towards at very large target audience, mainly mindless film goers, rather than dedicated Star Wars fans and if she lost everyone would say it's sexist
Exactly. Thank you. This guy gets it. She had to win because it's Disney, she's basically a "princess" and because "Muh feminism." Try to justify it with all this other babble and bullshit if you want, but thems the facts.
that blaster shot clearly would kill a normal person. Plus kylo is bleeding out during the fight. More he moves and exerts energy the faster the blood spills out. Basically hes dying while hes fighting fin and rey. So doesnt take a genius to figure that he was clearly at a huge disadvantage. He may be force sensitive but hes still a human, bound to the laws of biology. Plus Rey was not an inexperienced fighter. She fought to survive every day on jakku with her staff. Makes sense that she could defend herself against a dying Kylo who had no intention of killing her.
If you watched The Last Jedi, let me know if you'd like to edit your comment. Kylo Ren was ridiculously weak. And don't tell me Rey had some training from Luke, cause she didn't. She was practicing with a rock on the cliff.
if you saw it too, rey was fighting the guard one by one and she was almost killed, kylo ren was fighting the guard in one vs 4 and was winnig but him seeing rey "loosing" her fight made him lose concentration and lose his lightsaber so if he was alone he would have win and for why rey is so strong like snoke say the one in darkness grow stronger the one in light oppose him so the force is making rey stronger for the balance of the force
Sine lol did you even watch last jedi, in that fight scene kylo was fighting 1 v 3 while Rey was fighting 1v1. How is he ridiculously weak? If you read my original comment, I never said he was super strong, I said he was at disadvantage physically because he was "dying" while he was fighting/he had no intention of killing rey. Plus Rey was didnt have training, she had life training. She had been fighting to stay alive her whole life [used that staff to defend herself ] and she was force sensitive. So she had experience in fighting, she wasn't some scrub.
DOnONe733 I agree with you. But she is somewhat of a scrub if you consider Kylo had formal jedi training, even for a while, and he was trained under Snoke.
Im baffled by some people's obsession with this fight. I loved how it was a departure from the dance like choreography of the prequel fights. If felt dangerous, gritty, and uncertain. Kylo was deeply unhinged and injured, Rey was terrified and fighting for her life, Finn was foolishly brave! It felt like everyone was inexperienced and DESPERATE.
My thoughts exactly. Before TFA, the last Star Wars movie where the fights looked like actual fights and not dances was TPM. Look at the fight with Dooku at the end of AotC - there was a full few seconds where Anakin and Dooku just waved their lightsabers around in the air making pretty lights. Then you have RotS, which had some strong scenes but still looked choreographed (the deaths of Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin particularly jumped out). Then you get TFA's fights. No "hit the blade" nonsense, no silly jumps and flips, just two people trying their damnedest to kill or be killed. Say what you like about the writing, but there was more feeling in those two scenes than in some entire movies.
TBH I've never understood why some believe the prequel style fights weren't dangerous, gritty, desperate and uncertain. Like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Darth Maul for example. That fight seems like the embodiment of all of those things. I remember being completely blown away by it. Same with Darth Sidious vs Maul and Savage, Anakin vs Obi-wan, Maul vs Pre Vizsla and many others. IMO they felt more dangerous because they had everything you mentioned plus the deadly speed and precision. They were also more raw and violent because they incorporated more hand to hand combat. Perfect example would be all the times Obi-wan and Anakin struck and kicked each other during ep 3. At one point Anakin even tries to strangle his master. In ep 1 Maul strikes Qui-Gon in the face with the hilt of his blade before killing him milliseconds later. It was so quick and dirty that everyone had to stay on their toes, like simply blinking could get them killed. People throw around the phrase dance choreography but I don't think it's very accurate. IMO fast paced is better. I also believe the Rey and Fin vs Kylo choreography felt less original than the prequel style, because it resembled more traditional sword fighting (love those too btw). Not trying to hate or anything. I just wanted to contribute.
I agree with all you said. The duels got better with every movie and like you, all the duels in ep's 1,2 and 3 were amazing to me. Only duel i don't like is the very first one in ep 4 with Obi-wan vs Darth. It is so lame compared to all the others but i understand there was less technology and i don't think Lucas put much effort into the fight, maybe it wasn't a focal point for him. I can't wait for the next one! Anyway, this is coming from a guy that enjoyed TPM. Star Wars trilogy was my favorite as a kid so even though TPM was ripped apart by most, it was still amazing for me to watch it after all those years since RotJ
Star Wars Legacy I think Kylo trained with Obi Wan's blade and then as he turns back to the light, Rey puts together Anakin's and Obi Wan's and some staff parts to connect them and creates her blue double bladed, and Kylo Ren will put a green crystal in his cross guard lightsaber
Honestly I actually have a problem with Kylo being shot to begin with because we see in the very beginning of the movie that he stops the shot from Poe that he had no warning of and stopped like it was nothing. And he kept it stopped in mid air even shortly after he got into the ship. He had such a powerful and intimidating introduction and then seems to get progressively weaker as the movie goes on
Michael Runde I don't remember exactly but he occupied at the moment was he not? Like he was emotionally unstable after that specific scene with his dad.
Michael Runde you have to remember they were to different situations when Poe shot at him he was in a clear calm state of mind so he was able to sense the shot but when he was shot by Chewie he just got done killing his father which only weakened and made him emotional making him unable to sense the shot from Chewie.
I feel like it would've been a better fight if Rey or Fin sustained a serious injury. It would at least make Kylo Ren look a tiny bit more powerful rather than him getting his ass beat by a untrained Padawan.
Finn was hospitalized, comatose for a while and likely could not have moved on his own after help. That's a pretty rough beating, even if he didn't literally lose an arm.
Luminite I would like to add that I’m not sure Kylo even wanted to injury Rey because the risk of accidentally killing her would be too severe. He wanted her alive, to bring her to Snoke (remember Snoke said “Bring her to me”) or maybe even take her as his own apprentice.
SkyOut Honestly this is true. I’ve seen so many people angry about Luke becoming a force ghost... which is literally becoming One with the Force. It’s sad to be honest
No I actually enjoyed this duel. I always recognized Kylo's physical and mental state. To me what this video says should seem pretty obvious. Especially considering that when comparing this duel to the prequel trilogy, at this point no true masters are alive. Luke himself when we last saw him while his style was a bit more polished than Kylo's was still raw in others. I see this duel as a homage to the duels from the original trilogy, not the duels of the prequel trilogy. I like to take all duels at face value. Therefore from seeing this in the theater back in December of 2015 it seemed obvious that the reasons stated in this video are the reasons Kylo losy.
I thought the same thing it was obvious the mental and physical toll affected kylo's duel greatly and when people complain it's like do u need to watch the film 20 times to get it?
I agree. This duel including Finn with it (sorry to me its just one long a$$ duel not two to me) is in my Top 3 with Luke Vader Bespin one and Obi Wan Vader mustafar 2. It is an incredible gritty duel that doesn't have the crazyness of the prequels with two force users who are still very raw and it shows. The complainers act like Kylo has mastered Form 4 or 5 and didn't take a freakin laser shot to the stomach either. Add in the fact that Rey using her force sensitiveness in the backhalf caught Kylo probably by surprise while injured and it makes people simple sense.
Love this. I'm tired of the Kylo Ren hate and the ridiculous Mary Sue comments! Thanks for the very informative video. More people need to look deeper into this battle. One of my favorites of the series.
No, she really is, and she is OP as fuck, using jedi mind tricks without knowing it or when she pilots millenium falcon. So until her powers and habilities aren't explained i will consider her as a Mary Sue. And Kylo Ren, well the problem with this character is that we don't know (yet) exactly why he fell to the dark side which could make him a bit annoying.
Han Solo really, Want to elaborate on that? Rey could pilot ships and fix things because she literally spent her entire life scavenging and learning about the mechanics of ships, she could not fly the millennium falcon better than Han but she could at least keep up with him and help him seeing as she had spent some time on the ship since he had last seen it. Rey struggled to let go of her compulsion to go back to Jakku and wait for her family her whole journey in the movie was finding family with friends, she definitely Faced challenges with that. She was captured by Kylo and yes she did escape but she was as shocked as the audience she has a power that she doesn't understand yet being a powerful hero doesn't mean she is a badly written character. And as stated in the video there were many reasons why she was able to disarm Kylo in the final battle, he was bleeding out and didn't want to kill her not to mention his somewhat messed up state of mind and lack of control at the time, she was a some what competent fighter having to learn or die on Jakku, calling Rey a Mary Sue is just lazy and you parroting some one else's Criticism of her character just goes to show how easy it is for you to jump on the bandwagon of hate, this is just the first of three movies and in my opinion actually did a better job than ANH at setting up the main protagonist, Luke the farm boy didn't even blink an eye when he blasted stormtroopers and then made an impossible shot using the force, it's a double standard that too many fail to notice
The Stupendous Wave I do have a question about that blaster shot though, a few questions actually: 1) Didn't we see Chewie use the bowcaster before in the OT? If so, it wasn't as powerful as shown in TFA. 2) If I remember correctly, the blaster shot hit Kylo more on his side than directly (granted you did mention about the Stormtroopers flying from an indirect shot), but it still doesn't explain how an "injured" Kylo managed to get ahead of Finn and Rey in the forest (there's no transport or vehicle in the shot behind Kylo nor any entrances). So Kylo somehow to stay somewhat ahead of them while being injured? 3) Given the probable mindset of Kylo at this point, he did take Finn out relatively easy once he took the fight seriously, why didn't do the same to Rey? Rey has no real combat experience (training or otherwise) since the planet of Jakku is highly under established (compared to when Kenobi said about Mos Esiley being a hive of scum and villainy). Plus there wasn't anyone on Jakku wielding a blaster on Jakku otherwise Rey would've had one herself.
Chewbacca crafted his own Bowcaster, he used spare Stormtrooper blaster parts to do so, he may have improved his original design or made a new model out of a more recent Stormtrooper blaster model
So basically you’re saying that it wasn’t even a fair fight to begin with and that if Kylo Ren was in good health and at full strength he would have killed Rey.
can you please explain why rey was able to use a jedi mind trick on the storm trooper considering she didnt even know if the force was real like 40 mins before.
i mean any one can be trained to use a melee weapon like a light saber but to wield the force when 40 mins before you didnt even know what it was or if it was.
***** i dont think so definitely the worst star wars film but still awesome in my opinion. i think the fast and furious movies are the worst movies of the decade.
MultiBearsfan54 Sure that's exactly the same as shooting a target while you're moving at an insane speed, in a space ship that's being shot at by thousands of lasers.... Face it, you're just blinded by nostalgia
I think I heard on top of this current trilogy, they also plan to release an episode 10-12 on top of multiple "A Star Wars Story" movies. In total around 11 movies -ish.
That's because you probably seen the originals back to back. probably even grew up with them. Trust me...if you only saw episode 4 alone, you would have a lot of questions.
Rey channeled the force before her attack and used it to center herself and guide her attack. She says "The force" closes her eyes, thinks for a minute, then comes out swinging and dominate Kylo. She let go and gave herself to the force. The novelization says that she heard a voice prompting her to kill him when she had the chance, which makes me think she was tapping into the dark side of the force, even unknowingly.
people it's just being too stupid about this topic, I'm sure any of them would be capable of even fighting after being stabbed with a knife. Hell, you could even fuck Tyson's face if he was shot in the leg... it's more likeable that the guys who don't understan how kylo lost, they probably have never been into a real fight.
Golden Dolphin that's adrenaline working out and it depends of the fracture you had. If you had like a fisure it's normal you even didn't notice the injury till after the match. But if you tear appart your ancle, believe me you would have cried like a little girl in the floor (everyone would).
I must say that she lacked controll over lightsaber, especialy while stabbing. Look at that telegraphic slash, when Kylo could just cut her hands off (also decapitate her or just injure torso or legs) and way she moved. She almost cut off her own leg and burnt her back. Btw, how the fuck did she escape from over the cliff? And why Kylo suddenly became weaker? Dont get me wrong, it isn't the worst fight in cinema "evah", but Finn fought better. If not for plot reasons Finn would be the one to stand against Kylo. He was really looking that competent. Or Kylo and Rey were that incompetent. Whatever suits anybody. I think, that if Finn would barely hold against teasing want-to-be-sith just long enough to let Falcon to get to them (and earth splitting to save our severly injured heroe) the film would really gain a lot. Rey wouldn't look like Mary Sue, doing everything of importance, Finn wouldn't be Gary Stue, becouse Kylo would just be playing with him. I can hear it with my imagination. "Do you think you are Jedi? You are not. I killed them all." said with happy grin, or "They send a sheep to fight a wolf? It is almost funny." with little gentle smile. I know they wanted to portray him as split between light and dark side, but that whole thing left us without any antagonists , except for faceless horde and not-appearing leader. If anybody disagrees, he can. I won't make it forbidden. In fact i encourage discussion. I may not speak later, but still. PS. It would be nice if they added bastard mandalorian mercenary as an allie. Whole knowledge about fighting jedi and sith his people gathered would be very helpfull. And him teaching Finn (in scenario i proposed) and Luke teaching Rey would be really, really cool. Two styles of fighting and both kinda efficient.
Didn't he lose because A) Bowcaster shot to the guy and B) wasn't he trying to make her join him this him not having his focus on detaching her head from her shoulders?
Incintos 98 Eh, the shot wasn't a direct shot, it merely scathed him (hence the little blood droplets on the snow instead of a gushing wound, then again plasma shot so it would be cauterized). Plus even then he managed fairly well against his fight with Finn and Rey until Kylo talked about being a teacher. Plus given the fact that Kylo easily dispatched Finn, I'm sure Kylo could've figured a way of doing the same to Rey without heavily injuring her (slicing an arm off would've thrown Rey into shock).
SteelRazorBlade // AdamSRB Doesn't matter if Finn lived or died to Kylo, as long as he was out of Kylo's way. Which doesn't change anything I've said beforehand.
Rey and finn shouldn't be able to engage Kylo in the first place, just imagine you having to fight that guy with a weapon that you have never used and feels like a flashlight (aka the blade weights nothing).
I thought in canon lightsabers are actually very heavy to wield. Also did you watch the video where it's explained why he didn't want to use the force as told by the director himself?
If in a fresh situation and Kylo wasn't so physically and *for lack a better word* spiritually crippled he would've easily taken down Rey. I think it likely to happen in Ep. VIII as the situation will likely be far different from what happened here.
Ashbringer36 What it should've been is an entirely different argument. I think we'll see a very different situation in Ep. VIII where Rey loses and loses really bad. It's the second chapter of the trilogy so it must reflect Empire in that sense.
Rey beat Kylo twice.After he captured her,she read HIS mind.Magcially had jedi powers cause she's a girl.Or was Kylo "injured" at that point too ? Feminazi shit.
All great points. However, I still find her a bit too competent in a wide variety of fields, for a simple scavenger. Expert pilot, pin point accuracy with a blaster, incredible strength, speed and stamina for a starving girl. All things explained by the force I guess, but even Anakin was not that gifted without training, and he was supposedly the single most naturally gifted force sensitive to have ever lived. Just a bit too much in my opinion, still enjoyed the movie though, can't wait for the next one
Not true - Anakin at 6 years old (?) was already gifted without any training. In Episode 1 won a pod race and destroyed a droid ship. since Rey is likely the same bloodline, the Force is strong in her. Luke destroyed the Death Star without any training as well...
Anakin was inventing and repairing droids and damn near anything else, winning pod races (something most humans couldn't do period), flying fighter ships, and more when he was still wetting the bed. Luke was deflecting lasers from a Marksman-H combat remote from near point-blank range *blindfolded* with Obi Wan before ever receiving any real formal training, aside from a little bit of Force Meditation iirc, and swiftly went from getting owned by Tusken Raiders and Thugs to beating Rancors naked and blowing up planet destroyers. Every Star Wars MC was basically a Disney character, this is nothing new even now that it actually IS one.
Mads Andreasen some problems I had with her were that the jedi mind trick thing is a high level skill she hadn't even heard of in tales due to her isolation, but she could do the moment she felt the force under her control. Another bigger one in the actual fight is that the blade of a lightsaber is nigh weightless, yet through the entire fight she was thrusting it as if it were top heavy and difficult to hold. she would've done better and not looked like a floundering idiot if she actually swung it instead of the pointless full body jabs.
I saw nothing in Force Awakens more outrageous than a small boy piloting a starfighter blowing up a droid control ship, or a kid from Tatooine putting a photon torpedo into the core of the deathstar without a targeting computer. She wasn't pulling Yoda flip moves against Kylo; she took advantage of Kylo's desire to turn her instead of kill her, and she tapped into her awakening of the force to defeat an already greatly crippled opponent. There's nothing else to say here...
T. When kylo is talking to snoke about how she risisted him when he was torturing her snoke says "bring her to me" obviously implying he wants to turn her to the dark side for her power if klyo was to kill rey he would have done it but he didn't or he would be in deep shit with snoke
A moment that I thought was quite important that was left out of this video is when Kylo says "You need a teacher, I can show you the ways of the force." Rey seems to realize what she's been missing in her fighting style and centers herself, drawing on the force and giving her the upper hand. Before this, she was frantic and fought without finesse or discipline of any kind. I thought it was pretty obvious this is what had happened.
The thing with the staff argument is that it can only be used by people who have never fought with a sword and a polearm or doesn't know anything about martial arts when it comes to these two weapons. When fighting with a staff you fight with the ability to hold onto every point of the staff without injuring yourself. A sword fight is completely different in nature as you hold at one certain point, namely, the grip. Seeing as half-swording would go very poorly with a lightsaber, there's no reason you would hold any other place than the grip. Since you hold a sword differently from a pole-arm you'd also fight differently. It takes a lot of time to master sword fighting and previous experience with something like pole-arm will not help much if at all. Saying that you would be a good sword fighter because you've previously fought with another melee weapon is like saying you'd be good with a bow and arrow because you've used a crossbow before or that because you've hot experience using a spear you'd be good with a sword as well. The real reason Ray won is not because Ren was injured or because he was in an emotional state of mind, but because Rey fixes all her problems herself and isn't depended on anyone else. She is a Mary Sue who is an expert pilot, who is an excellent martial artist, who is able to use a mind trick without any previous experience, who is better at Han Solo in understanding problems with his own ship, who can out match someone trained in the force since he was a child, who would have managed to escape from Starkiller base even if Finn and co. never showed up, who can beat a skiller lightsaber dualists and who doesn't have any character flaws or limitations. This will likely change in the next Episode were she meets new challenges, but as of now, Rey is the ultimate Mary Sue and that is the reason she won against Ren.
I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I think the Mary Sue complaints came from just simply a lack of context. TFA was a glorified movie pilot that pushed a mystery box. I mean sure it is competently made. That's what I'll say for Abrams films, even if I do NOT like him as a director. But still, the Rey fight was big mishap. And the fact it hinges on Episode Eight isn't good for this movie to which should have strived to be a standalone movie.
***** Your ability in the force doesn't make you a good sword wielder, which is my point. It's just silly and idiotic that you can just say that someone is just born God-mode and don't need any training or practice at all. Even if they're powerful in the force, they should need proper training to actualise their powers. Luke and Anakin had to train their force powers, but Rey is just born with it all and is by default just the greatest Jedi ever.... just cause. I mean, she doesn't really need Luke's training at all the way she's acting
The biggest issue is that videos like this have to be made to try and explain away how Rey was able to win. It wasn't set up well enough in story for her to actually win or use a Jedi mind trick.
adam wills I think he was probably wearing a type of armor under the cloak. When shot the metal could have absorbed a regular blaster bolt but the bow caster caused the metal to melt and shoot backwards from the blow. He could've had molten metal from armor puncture his torso. Or he hit so hard that he cracked the cauterized wound and started to bleed. He was beating himself to feel pain so he could get stronger. Because the dark side feeds on pain and hate. Those are my ideas. Or because there was blood in a New Hope and that would be a cool allusion to that scene.
Because they haven't had blood in Star Wars since Obi-wan cut off that guys arm in the bar in A New Hope and it's about damn time they brought it back. Fuck being "cauterized". I wanna see blood. We already have space wizards using mystical abilities. A little blood isn't too far-fetched.
Rbreeze 78 dude, you're such an idiot, in this series there's gonna be up to 12 episodes plus with the "Rogue One" Episode dumbass, I'm pretty sure you didn't know that until now that I just told you but pretty much onto things of stupid comments about movies like this that pretty much if you don't like it the Series when Disney took over that George Lucas allowed to come together & George Lucas with JJ. Abrams made episode VII then quit watching the movies & move on watching something else, I'm 30 yrs old & it's my older brother's fault for getting me into watching the series of tv shows on Demand & buy them on Blu-Ray as well, too. If you don't like my comment then you can just screw it
In my opinion, Episode VII did more harm to the Star Wars cannon than any other previous film, even the dreaded prequels. First, it was a blatant, almost scene by scene rehash of A New Hope, just repurposed. How fans can't see this is bewildering to me. Casual fans, yes, but not actual fans. For those who can, I don't understand how they don't dislike the pure and evident fact that the film was a rehash. Second, Starkiller Base was completely and utterly preposterous. A planet sized copy of the Death Star made by a faction that has less resources than the almighty empire and that destroys multiple planets.......? Please. The only reason why Starkiller Base was created was to one up the Death Star bc Abrams decided to copy the plot of Episode IV, story beat by story beat in order to play it safe. They played it SAFE. Safe to the point that they decided unabashedly to copy. Which makes sense considering the general public disliked the prequels, which were DIFFERENT. Disney wanted to protect their investment. That makes sense. Play it as safe as possible. Maximize investor returns. The circle of life and money. But back to the second point - the problem with Starkiller Base is that it ups the ante so high, what subsequent possible threat can be presented? Where can they possibly go from there? A planet sized death weapon that can fire system destroying, undetectable projectiles across the galaxy. Abrams and the creative staff left Star Wars in a serious hole. Also, it seems as even less X-Wings were sent to attack and defeat the horrendously conceived base. If you're going to introduce something so blatantly and preposterously powerful into the story, why lesson it's legitimacy by making it so easily defeatable? And third, and most relatable to the video, how is Rey so powerful? By making her so inexplicably powerful with virtually (not virtually, actually), no training, and making her capable of defeating Kylo Ren her first time using a Lightsaber, you completely undermine everything related to Jedi training that has been established prior. What do I mean? It took Luke Skywalker yrs to be able to wield a Lightsaber effectively, and he trained from Obi-Wan and Yoda before confronting Vader. It took Anakin Skywalker over 10 yrs to achieve his potential. Rey being able to fight so proficiently, so soon, with virtually no training undermines the Star Wars mythos that has been built up to this point. Also, how can we possibly take Kylo Ren seriously anymore? Yes, JJ Abrams is a great director, writer, and producer. Yes, I love his work. But The Force Awakens really created some serious problems for the Star Wars Universe. Yes, it made a lot of money. Was it enjoyable, overall? Yes. But I'm a huge Star Wars fan who enjoyed the originals as well as the prequels. And I think Episode VII did more harm than good.
CardinalRule starkiller base did not produce it's own energy for it's planet destroying blasts instead absorbing it from sources in space so I assume that is a lot of money saved on power generators also while the deathstar was built from scratch starkiller base is a modefied planet so I think that also helped to conserve the first order their recources
Could not agree more, and with so many possibilities for Abrams to take the story in a different, unique direction, it was a shame to see them regurgitate the story of A New Hope... And your argument about the training and time required to master the force and light saber combat is a corner stone of the Star Wars universe; I'm sad to see it so completely disregarded in order to fill in this giant plot hole and make tons of money. In my opinion, Rogue One was a superior and more mature movie. I hope to see the rest of the franchise move in this direction. I also hope to see more stand alone films, especially some outside of the current Star Wars timeline. They don't need to involve stories at a galactic scale; maybe a young Sith discovered a way to resurrect an ancient Sith Lord, or a novice Jedi who was left stranded on a hostile world after his master has died... They can explore the force in more intimate ways than the current movies allow because of their constant focus on Galactic domination / annihilation forcing the narrative forward at a fast, and usually uneven, pace. I believe in Disney and I hope they grow from the success of Rogue one, but only time will tell.
this is one I just don't understand. he was seriously injured. I don't know why is constantly ignored. I'm glad the video brings it up. The directors clearly made it obvious that he was seriously impaired. constantly clutching his wound, showing his blood pooling at his feet. Even his swings with his lightsaber reflect his wounds, keeping his one arm protecting his wound. Yes Rey is clearly setup to be "specialy attuned" to the force and if that bothers you fair enough. But from the first time I saw the film I never thought something was weird about a half dead Kylo losing.
Sith aren't human and neither are jedi but sith when mad gain power and energy. So according to that either kylo is just complete shit or he's half-jedi half sith.
You know what would solve this? If Rey had been injured too. Like stabbed or had her hand cut off. If she had taken a big injury like kylo, Luke, or Anakin, I think we'd all feel better about this fight.
Ball Is Life And Kylo was shot with a bow caster, a weapon that can kill 3 at a time. Kylo is lucky to be alive, and it would have had to be a miracle for him to win against a stormtrooper (who according to the books was at the top of his class) and someone who has had to defend herself all her life. Kylo didn’t kill Rey because he wanted her as an apprentice, and once again according to the books “he had compassion for her”
Not the point, he shouldn't have lost but the bullshit narrative forced the female to win as 'the force is female' and girls are totally badass and can't struggle, suffer, lose or have any kind of flaws.
@@adampeel6161 🤦🏿♂️ did you even watch the damn video man? It explains everything to why Kylo lost! Like are you so caught on that "The force is female" bs that you ignored the entire video?
All total bull shit. She could fly the falcon on day one and do advanced evasive maneuvers out of thin air. Any time they run into a wall they just gift Rey more power out of thin air. By the end of the trilogy she hasn't done any training and more powerful than anyone. Gtfo here.
He had also been shot with a wookie fucking bowcaster, which in the movie can take out multiple stormtroopers in one shot, and he was also wounded by Finn. The fact that Chewbacca’s hit didn’t fucking kill him is the only really dumb part
Brandish so a scavenger who knows ships, has been shown to use a vehicle frequently and knows the in’s and outs of a starship because of her entire life spent scavenging and picking apart starships, that’s just “knowing everything for no reason”?
I have a question: How come Anakin's lightsaber is always turned on differently? In a new hope, it is turned on with a switch from the side. In the force awakens, the button on the back is used. In the prequels and the clone wars tv series, it was turned on with the red button on the front (not a hundred percent sure on this one). Any explanation for this?
Arc 48 If you actually look at the design of the lightsaber it's changed over the years. Certain buttons and stuff were changed. Maybe Luke worked on the lightsaber to make it more his own.
Sam Driver not really. From what I can tell, there was always a switch on the side, a button on the front, and a button on the back. Maybe all three could've turned the lightsaber on.
Arc 48 But if you look at the button on the side it's changed over the years. The last time Anakin used it was RotS and If you look at the button on the side in ANH it's different. It's also different again in ESB. When Finn uses the lightsaber he activates it with the button on the back but Luke uses the button on the side. Could be that the configuration was changed along with the buttons for easier activation.
I theorize that Rey became a powerful force user because of her accidental force bond that was formed with Kylo during the Interrogation scene. Hence why she was able to use the mind trick on a stormtrooper right after Kylo did a mind probe to her. If you observe even closely, she even swings the light saber very similar to how he does it before battle, and was able to grab Anakin's light saber with the force (just like how Kylo used the force to grab/choke a First Order general). The abilities that she learned didn't come out of thin air; she LEARNED all of it through Kylo. But why? She is his equal. In the novel, he sensed something intriguing about her that he couldn't explain. This is one of the reasons why Rey won; because he DID NOT want to hurt her. Not because she overpower him. The novel even explained that he could have easily killed her, especially during the cliff scene where he could have easily pushed her off, but he did not. It's an interesting read, especially reading how Kylo became instantly weak and conflicted after killing his father.
I think it's actually pretty simple as Kensei said. If Kylo was fresh and not been shot by a Bowcaster that would have killed most people, even some Jedi or Sith, there would have been no contest. I do think Finn shouldn't have lasted more than a second against Kylo either. Either Finn has some connection to the Force, or in this case, this was just written in. Rey, on the other hand, is a different story. I think we all pretty much know that Rey is Luke's daughter. When Kylo was looking around in Rey's mind for the into, he inadvertently broke the wall that was put in place to disconnect Rey from the Force, in order to protect her. Something else people forget is despite the fact that Kylo just killed his father, you don't think that affected him in any way negatively? He was still dealing with that, but even if you just ignore that, Kylo Ren was already gravely injured before the fight. Only his hatred and his connection to the Force sustained him. Had he not been injured, even with Rey's unlocked Force abilities, she was no match for him. Remember, Ren is bleeding the entire time he's fighting, thereby getting weaker and weaker, whilst Rey is reminded of her connection to the Force and then the only reason she beat Ren is because she tapped into the Force and she went a little dark side on Ren. Just look at the emotion of her face and ferocity of her attacks. The truth is, the dark side is stronger temporarily if you use it sparingly. If you use it long term, it starts destroying your body. If you look at most of the lightsaber fights when it's Jedi vs Sith and when the Jedi gains the advantage, what happens just prior to that. They get angry. Look at Luke fighting Vader in RotJ. He gave into the dark side briefly, but stopped, just short of killing Vader. When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were fighting Maul and Qui-Gon was killed. Obi-wan went all Darkside on Maul and didn't stop. Then Anakin fighting Dooku at the beginning of RotS, dark side energy allowed Anakin to dominate Dooku. The only exception is when Yoda fights, but come on, Yoda is not just a master of the light side, he's a Grandmaster. Then Kylo and Rey. When Kylo asked him to join her, she declined, but got angry and again, the dark side aided her. Now, the real question is, what will happen in TLJ. It appears that Kylo Ren will probably be a Darth now and you can actually see the dark side yellow eyes in one brief scene. Yes, in another, his eyes are brown, but it's probably early on in the movie and also they don't get the full red eyes permanently until they've been going dark side for a while. It will be interesting to see who wins and loses in TLJ because it appears as though Luke goes dark. I thought he was going to become a Grey Jedi, but after hearing Mark Hamil's response in several interviews including the Star Wars Celebration Panel this year (2017), he seemed quite upset how Luke is portrayed and hinted that Luke goes dark, but doesn't come back. Maybe that's just a ploy to confuse fans to make us think that, but Kathleen Kenedy interrupted Mark Hamil at the celebration and seemed to try to be doing some damage control and for what Mark Hamil said.
Sithtiger Star wars accidently Leaked a part of the episode 8 script but i don't know if its true because In the script, Luke skywalker Was so skilled with the force, he could stop death. He reincarnated Anakin skywalker But Failed when The reincarnated Version was a girl. So he raised her a few years then left her in a planet. He then Tried to find her but couldnt because she was Taken and sold. he went to a Planet To Try to sence her But she came to him. i hope This is fake but This is a good reason why she was so skilled with the force.
This has to be fake. I mean come on. So They is a female version of Anakin?! That makes no sense at all. Speaking of that leak. Now the other part with him leaving Rey and then trying to find her is more plausible, but still hard to swallow for me.
I liked this fight, both of them. and first time watching, I told my brother that, "damn he just tanked that Crossbow blaster!!! and is still fighting!"
Jacqueline Blackwell Rey would have turned to the dark side, strapped herself into some black, skin tight leather, traded her staff in for a duel sided saber and would become the hottest thing since leia in her slave attire
this was actually really good. I was kinda confused on how Rey won, considering she was 'just a scavenger' (or is she), and she was up against a highly trained fighter, led by the the ferocious power of the dark side. Now I think about it, it was actually an even match taking into consideration everything you've said.
I agree with everything you said. Rey isn't that amazing like many think. Now if she becomes more powerful than Luke, I'm done with this. Yeah, Luke is only amazing mainly in the EU, but Episode VIII should show how he grew from Episodes IV-VI and after that. It is completely unrealistic if they make Rey "better" than Luke has ever been...
I feel you, I too really hate stories where the student eventually surpasses the teacher. I mean Luke becoming stronger than Obi-Wan and being able to defeat Vader. It´s good that they fixed it in the EU by explaining that they´ve gotten older and their skills deteriorated, but they didn´t fix Vader surpassing his teacher. This bullshit also drove me nuts in Dragon Ball, what business has Goku being stronger than Roshi? Now he is a saiyan, great explanation. Not! Oh and don´t get me started on Snake beating the Big Boss. What BS was this? A gaming series ruined by pandering to mens rights activists and now the feminists want to do the same to Star Wars.
Random Uploader I am so happy to find someone who understands me, so many people say bullshit like that it is natural that the student surpasses the teacher or that this is normal plot progression and they are doing it for years in Star Wars. I think the rule of two was only established as part of the lore to serve a hidden agenda. They´re attacking old people! They have no respect, not a single shred! You know who started it? Bruce fucking Lee! He surpassed all of his martial arts teachers, what a respectless asshole he was and from then on Hollywood came on board. You might think that makes no sense, because the film industry is controlled by jews and judaism is older than christianity and automatically the teacher, so why would they plant ideas like that in the heads of people? It is because they are not jews, they are secretely christians who disrespect the old teachers, who want to overthrow them! They are young people rights activists, younginists and they are sending out their minions to rig the election. Yeah the election is rigged, they want the younginists leader as president and we can do notthing against it, the whole world will suffer under president JILL STEIN!!!!!!!!!!!
You're actually right. A lot of what's said in this video just seems like a huge retcon to appease the fans, Kylo is probably the 3rd most powerful force user around at the moment, and Rey didn't know the force existed until halfway into the movie. The difference between good and bad writing is showing vs telling. The fact that people even need a 10m video explanation to supplement the movie shows that there was a huge flaw in writing.
Actually, it was pretty obvious in the movie, idk why you can't get it by just watching. Kylo pauses in the fight twice to try and quell his wounds throbbing. In addition, as stated, he had wanted Rey to join him from the start. I don't understand any of the backlashes of this film. It was good.
I love this breakdown. It neatly summarizes everything I was thinking about this fight, and what makes it so entertaining and interesting to watch. They are BOTH (Kylo and Rey) working with significant handicaps. Also worth noting is that Rey had thrown Ren off during his interrogation of her, making her sort of a wildcard to him. He's confused, bereaved at his own actions, physically injured-- couple that with the fact that he really doesn't want to kill Rey. Meanwhile Rey is full of fire and determination and is relatively less impaired. Makes them a somewhat even match, and luck comes out on Rey's side enough for her to get away. This fight also shows some of the real brutality that comes with combat like this. It's not pretty. It's not a dance. These people are hurting and trying to survive, and this scene excels in showing that. Thanks again for all the research and thought put into this!
Now, if Ren and Rey fight in Episode VIII and Rey loses (which I predict), how will the fans react? Will they see it as Ren finally being the badass darkside user they wanted? Or, will they criticize it for being inconsistent? Given the Star Wars Fanbase's tendency to be unpleasable, I'm leaning more toward the latter.
They'll bash it because the good guy lost in ESB and they'll call the whole movie a reskin of ESB just because of that. And if she wins they'll just keep calling her a Mary Sue
not to mention he was on offensive almost the whole time, but he doesn't really have ANY defensive skill because he wasn't worried about being on the defensive.
Even then, the first duel we see Anakin in he gets his hand cut off and he had training for close to 10 years prior, they rematch in ep III and Anakin has improved which makes sense but he was held in such high esteem but even he struggled at points when he could've become space jesus that i believe is why so many people detest Rey who as far as we know has no training and fighting a trained fighter and winning just sounds silly to me
Anakin is well written and has trained. His only flaw is that George made him whiny and made his lines garbage. Rey has random powers that let her escape or defeat anything. She doesn't even use em herself, it just HAPPENS. In short, Anakin was trained in the ways of dueling (and even had limbs cut off and many losses), and Rey was not, therefore she is a mary sue to many people.
That makes Rey even more a mary sue. Anakin was atleast the chosen and still had to train.. Rey is a nobody and if shes not from the skywalker linage what she did makes it even more ridiculous.
I think that Rey also did something that you mentioned in another video, with Obi-Wan. During the duel, shortly after she was being beaten down, Kylo asked her to let him teach her. In that moment, Rey shut her eyes and concentrated. I think that she gave herself over to the will of the force, just as Obi-Wan did against General Grievous.
Since they are VIPs they would only put a target on the movement much earlier and they would be hunted down by Vader and Sidious personally and be destroyed. Yoda and Obi-Wan had nothing to offer the rebels.
Because she's a Mary Sue. Suddenly able to out force-pull someone who clearly shows major mastery in kinetic force abilities. Kylo took a powerful shot. Great. He's armored and trained, and he slammed Rei into a tree, knocking her out. Also, Ren was able to suddenly stop a blasterbolt in the beginning of the movie with no warning. He should easily have been able to kill her. I'm sorry, but while 7 was better than 1 2 and 3, it still was poor writing. The strengths of this movie was in the acting, effects, soundtrack, and humor (a little too much humor, if you ask me.)
Rebel Riot She's that much of a Mary Sue, in the beginning of the fight Ren had the advantage and was throwing her around she didn't start winning the battle until she gave herself to the force only then did she defeat Kylo Ren.
Rey obviously appeared in the movie to be a sort of natural or savant with the force and seemed to take to its use either without realizing it or on instinct... that combined with Kylo Ren being a mental, emotional and physical mess and that fight did feel plausible.
Something that bothered me before though is that when it came to moments like her meditation while fighting Kylo... that can't be instinctual. She has to have learned about that, somewhere. I'm wondering if that's something she'd have heard of in stories, growing up. Similarly, it's clear she'd heard of Jedi Mind Tricks to get her way out of that questioning room.
Pfft! Anaken Skywalker was the embodiment of force potential and even he didn't run around mind tricking people as soon as he learned about The Force. I like Rey but she picked up on The Force too quickly.
^Don't deflect. It's not about being a "natural". Even the most gifted force sensitives have to work for years upons years to gain the abilities that Rey just picked up on the fly in 5 minutes. It cheapens what it means to be a Jedi if she doesn't even need to train. That just makes her a Mary Sue. Bad writing.
There's a lot we don't know about Rey. Like a lot of movies these days this one was made to set up other movies, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she had some Jedi training. Or became obsessed with them when whoever was in her vision left her. Sounded like Ben Kenobi to me in the echo that called out her name right after, that's just me, but I digress. Point being we don't know a lot. Like... ANYTHING yet. Which is stupid but that's what we get in movies these days and they could come up with a million different reasons why Rey would be that talented in the force.
Quintillion your comment regarding natural talent compared to discipline in the force is like, in DnD or Pathfinder (but Pathfinder specifically), comparing a Wizard to a Sorcerer. Wizards practice and discipline themselves to be better with magic, Sorcerers are almost in reverse, disciplining themselves to control and refine magic rather than be better with it. Wizards STUDY magic, Sorcerers ARE magic. This is almost why the theory about Rey being a Wound in the force makes sense, because from what has been gathered, Wounds in the force collect power and abilities by forming links and bonds, and especially so when taking a life. This is why Darth Nihilus and Meetra Surik were so powerful. in a way, they were Sorcerers in a galaxy of Wizards.
I think there's one other part that needs consideration - Rey's trust and self-control. We start off the film seeing that she lives a pretty basic life. But she does what she needs to in order to get by. We see her keeping a tally of days past and we eventually learn how she is waiting for her family to come back for her. But she still does her daily tasks and remains focussed on the here and now. Compare this to what Yoda chastises Luke for in Empire Strikes Back. Like spent too much time with his head in the clouds, dreaming about adventure, instead of focussing on where he was and what he was doing. It was something Luke had to get over and learn, in order to centre himself and grasp his true potential. But it would seem Rey already had that sort of attitude in her life. Going back to the OT and their view of the Force, self-belief would appear to be more important than anything else. Luke destroying the Death Star was all about him trusting his instincts. Luke failing to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp was all about him not believing it could be done. This was a core component of the story. The same became true of Rey as The Fore Awakens went on. She slowly began to believe in herself and this is what gave her strength. Its clear in that moment when Kylo has her on the edge of the precipice that she finally gives herself over to the Force. She calms herself and just trusts. Its now similar to what we see in Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One. "I fear nothing, as all is as the Force wills it." Rey learns to trust her instincts at exactly the moment Kylo is questioning his.
The Stupendeous Wave: Kylo is injured both mentally and physically. What you do not mention is this - Snoke has ORDERED him to bring Rey to him, ALIVE! Thus Kylo cannot kill her because he obeys Snoke above all else. Second of all explaining the fight by analysing saber forms is not very good, because from what we know, the forms are not cannon - at least, not yet. Another factor, Kylo did participate in the massacre of Luke's Jedi, and it is even confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo and the visual dictionary, that "The lightsaber skills of Kylo Ren are, ironically responsible for that elegant weapon and its combat forms remaining unknown to the galaxy at large" and "it was his deadly lightsaber skills that prevented the return of Jedi Order", so I would wagger that he is skilled in the dueling, and not just an amateur - his choice of weapon is crossguard after all. When it comes to Finn, he wants to make Finn bleed and suffer, he wants to make him pay, thus he carries on with the fight but gets cocky, due to aforementioned factors and gets hit. After the hit, he immediately finishes Finn off. When it comes to Rey, she is loosing the fight to the point where they stand over the chasm that opens when planet begins to rip itself apart. What Kylo does is wait for Rey to make up her mind, because as I mentioned, he cannot kill her and wants her to surrender (there is also a theory why he is waiting, but I do not want to delve into Reylo here....). What happens to Rey is that she lets the Force in. This is what Kylo is not expecting at all and thus what Rey is doing is going all frenzy on him, due to being taken over by the power of the Force. This is exactly what happens when Kanan is fighting Maul after he gets blinded. He cannot see Maul, but allows the Force in and allows it to guide him, thus he blocks all Maul's strikes and knocks him off the temple. From what we have seen, Rey appears to be incredibly gifted with the Force, thus when she "allows it in", she is powered up, kinda like when you pick up a power boost in videogame - the Force is guiding her. When this happens, Kylo is completely caught off guard and gets his robe slashed and foot cut - the rest is history. While the video is well put together, these are factors you should take in and not leave out key details like Snoke ORDERING Ren to bring Rey to him, because this is what many people who are complaining about this duel are forgetting about and not paying attention to the working of the Force. Also another example of another "Mary Suenes": You know why Yoda can fight as well as he can in his age? He allows the Force to guide him.
She only used a mind trick. I doubt they're that hard if you're force sensitive. Plus, she's obviously involved with some kind of early Jedi training, we just don't know what that means yet
Dark Matter It is pretty fucking hard, you need a lot of training for that she also used the Force to grab the Ligthsaber, Force users have to train years to master some of the simplest force uses, that's why I said until they explain she's a bad written character
Dark Matter by all sources it seems to be one of the more difficult tricks to master, which is why we only ever saw a few people do it, those people being extremely powerful Jedi with training. She also does a lot of other things that are awfully convenient. Like flying the millennium falcon like an ace despite never flying anything prior. Or fixing the ships hyperdrive, something that Han Solo himself was having trouble with. Becoming an ace shot with a blaster exactly twenty minutes after getting her first one. Bottom line is: they got some explaining to do about Rey's skills in episode 8, if they want people to take her character seriously.
FearingVirus Ok I'm going to be fair, Rey said in the movie she had experience flying other ships, also she struggled with the blaster at the beginning and let's not forget Luke also was pretty good with the blaster in New Hope without training, she's a scavenger I think it's fair She can fix things like little Anakin Skywalker
true both Luke and Anakin had experience flying things while Rey seems to have none. Also, i will only accept Rey being an ace pilot if she's a Skywalker since being ace pilots is in their blood
Being skilled with a staff should be irrelevant to lightsaber combat. The plasma blade of the lightsaber is weightless and would be very awkward for a non-force sensitive person to use and someone who is force sensitive needs extensive training to use the blade effectively.
Actually lightsaber are pretty heavy. That's why most Yes I and sith use two hands. Only some of the most powerful can wield a lightsaber with one hand.
MysteryMeat 121 It's the same like normal sword fights in principal. Two hands give you more power in your hits, plus it is a lot easier to keep your body balanced, making it generally stronger than two swords. The only cases two weapons are useful in are: fighting multiple enemies at once, being physically strong enough to keep up with one-sworded enemies using only one hand, or fighting against a distracted enemy, where the actual power of the strike doesnt matter (it's still a laser sword).
how do you know that? ever held a lightsaber? you know light doesn't end at some specific point, right? so maybe the "light" (more likely some kind of plasma) emmited by a kyber crystal is in fact heavy?
Your explanation is basically confirmed by Snoke in The Last Jedi. “And look at you, the deed split your spirit to the bone. You’re unbalanced! Bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber, you failed!” - Supreme Leader Snoke You were spot on with this analysis. Great video! :)
If Kylo Rens blade is dealing much more damage beacause of the broken kyber crystal, then why don't all light saber users "break" their crystal to get a better blade?
Vällygs it's more likely he either has an ancient sith artifact lightsaber, unrefined but powerful, or he has a barab ore refining crystal alongside his kyber crystal that causes his blade to burn and crackle
David Moriarty-Schieven But somehow the manufacturer of the blade hat to break it and if it's really as strong as said it would definetly be worth the effort to find a way to do it
What makes you think it is broken? I think it is much more likely that it is an ancient artifact given to Kylo Ren by snoke, possibly one of the first lightsabers constructed by the Sith - it isn't broken, the mechanism hasn't refined yet.
I really like that the films have gone back to the more life-like styled fight scenes like in Empire, but I still have yet to see a truly great sword fight from a modern movie/anime/cartoon/etc. Everything just seems so choreographed. My favorite has and always will be the opening fight from the Duelist. I wish this fight would've been more like that
You should check out the Kylo Ren video put out by Blindwave. The use of the lightsabers and force in that video is so creative and interesting to watch.
and finally, the reason why Kylo's head wasn't chopped of when he got a direct hit is because he use force to "shield" the saber. Just like that female jedi master who stop Darth Maul's saber stab with her bare hand.
Rey might be untrained with a lightsaber, but she actually has the right idea when attacking, IMHO, by opening with thrust attacks instead of wide swings. And while she does use circular attacks, she almost never overdo them. By that I mean, she almost never telegraph them, except maybe twice, one being the overhead strike before the front kick that sends Kylo to the ground, just before the final assault. But more interestingly, she has some pretty good Shii-Cho sequences. Her guard at the beginning of the fight is legit (as is Finn's for that matter), and the sequence when they are on the narrow path (after the scene with Poe and before Rey jumps out of the path), her mostly defensive moves are typical of Form I. So, while she's certainly not trained with a lightsaber, she either conveniently, or instinctively, used Shii-Cho as a go to form. And seeing how she's able to handle herself with her staff, I'd say that it's a learned skill, not an inherited one. She might be naturally strong with the Force, and it doesn't violate the lore in the slightest, but I do think that her skill as a melee fighter is genuine. However, I don't think that, at this point, she's stronger than Kylo. As you pointed out, he was physically and mentally weakened but even then, he was able to beat Finn quite easily, if not for a wound that hurt his pride more than anything, and could have been avoided if he was more focused. I actually would put Rey and Finn roughly at the same level of abilities when it comes to melee combat, the difference being that while Rey's nimbleness and tendency of using the terrain at her advantage, like cutting tree branches to hinder Kylo's progression, coupled with her naturally faster style of combat, seems to be the perfect foil to Kylo's almost tank-like approach to combat (even more so than Vader's, if you think about it), Finn's overreliance on wide, wild swings and head-on approach played straight into Kylo's main advantage. To me, it's akin to a tank taking an even bigger tank head-on and hoping for the best. But one thing is for sure, this was certainly not Kylo Ren at his best. The dude is able to stop a blaster bolt mid-air, have a conversation for several minutes while still holding the damn thing in the air. Now there have been tons of Force Users described as being able to use Tutaminis (the ability to absorbe/stop energy, like blaster bolts, ligthsabers, etc...), but I don't recall seeing once something akin to what Kylo did there. He is certainly not a pushover.
Also, another thing that I've noticed but failed to mention: Rey's clothes are for a desertic, hot planet. They're fighting in the snow. No matter what we think of her abilities, this is pretty damn impressive.
Neldolas that'd be more a combination of soresu and makashi rather than shii-cho. makashi is Dooku's form, a galaxy known expert duelist in his day and very similar to a rapier. soresu is Obi-Wan Kenobi. very defensive, and circular. like weapons training in Aikido
A thrust attack is literally the easiest thing to parry, ever. It's called a sidestep, FFS. Then one upswing and boom, no arms. Especially since she was basically charging him and leaving herself wide open. It was just bad script writing and bad choreography.
Vader was practically a God next to Luke. That's a part of what made their conflict so interesting. How much would Empire have sucked, had Luke not been handed his ass by Vader?
Smokes words explain why he lost. Kylo: “I killed Han Solo, when the time came, I didn’t hesitate” Spoke: “Yet the deed split your spirit to the bone, you were unbalanced! Bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber, you failed!”
Man people in this comment section are going to war and fighting like usual. "Rey is a Mary Sue." (Dumb word anyway.) "TFA sucks." "Blah blah blah Star Wars is ruined." Damn Star Wars fans hate Star Wars more than anyone else. Is it so hard to sit back and enjoy a movie even if it's similar has problems. But stop talking about all this Mary Sue (Dumb word) bullshit. Talk about how great this video is. I don't know if you'll see my comment but fantastic video man! You never dissapoint. But I have a video suggestion. My video Suggestion Is. "What would happen if Padme didn't die but Anakin Skywalker still became Darth Vader." Like in his suit. Would it be possible she could turn Vader into Anakin or something. Just a idea.
If the rest of the movie had not shown Rey to be such a Mary Sue I might have accepted this. I think most of the movie was just poorly done and now we are grasping at straws to justify it.
I agree. The fight itself is still goofy and illogical but what makes it worse is that Rey can do everything and anything in the film, despite having no logical reason. The only thing she should be good at is fixing things and working with machines, just like Luke was only good at flying because of his T-16 and bullseying womp rats, a feat that would be useful later on.
Gabe Rivera We both know this won't convince either side they were wrong. If you feel she isn't, then nothing I say will change your stance. My issue is how she is perfect at everything, and when something she has no experience with, like flying or the force, she not only mysteriously learns it but masters it. I feel combing through every bit of supplemental content on Rey just to make excuses isn't on us, and she was a poorly made character if you need to do it to justify her actions. I hope I am proven wrong and something happens in the upcoming movies to change my mind, like the reincarnation theory being true, then I can understand it, but until then, she is a Mary Sue to me.
Does no-one find Rey's character absolute bullshit? For a poor, lonely, hungry scavenger on a desert planet she's a better pilot than Tie fighter pilots who have trained their entire lives, she knows everything about tech, somehow matches Ren who was trained by Luke and trained his entire life in a lightsaber duel, and of course somehow does jedi mind tricks without knowing the force existed a few hours earlier and never seen it been done before. Luke didn't even use a saber properly till ESB and didn't do mind tricks till ROTJ (and he's one of the most powerful jedi ever)
1. Luke didn't know what the Force was at the beginning of A New Hope, and by the end, he used it to destroy the Death Star. 2. Rey did know the Force existed, because she knew about Luke. She said in one scene on Jakku, "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a myth!"
Luke using the force to help him concentrate (with Obi Wan guidingg him) to shoot is nothing compared to Rey being able to manipulate the force with jedi mind tricks and besting an experienced duelist. Exactly she thought he was a myth! how the fuck does that mean she'd know how to pull off jedi mind tricks with no guidance whatsoever? Luke saw Kenobi do that trick and had him to help him when he was one with the force.
Pablo The Penguin Millions upon millions (the vast majority) of Star Wars fans completely disagree with you. And the abominations to the SW saga were Episodes I and II. Those movies were a complete joke. And the vast majority of SW fans feel that way.
I loved them all. Episode 1 and 2 were NOT a complete joke. Yeah, Jar Jar was fucking annoying, but rumour has it, it was whinging fans that may have stopped him from being a Sith Lord in disguise. The prequels may have been better still.
great effort but..... no matter how tired or injured Kylo Ren was. if he could still stand and draw his light saber in anger there is no reason he would loose to someone who had seen a light saber for the first time that day. The only reason he would loose is plot armour for Ray. Fighting thugs and thieves with a staff is hardly on the same level as fighting murderous warriors with light sabers. Either plot armour or it means she is the most powerful of all known warriors and force users if she could beat a student of Snoke and Luke Skywalker after zero training and learning of the force just hours prior.
@diddy47 Yeah he could only have one arm left and no legs and have a heart attack but he still can't lose... Hours prior? really? dude she has known about the force since she was a kid like come on basic shit
Didn't Adam Driver say that VIII will remind ESB in tone? I think that implies that it's gonna be darker, and therefore the bad guys may win for the time being.
That's what he said. Adam Driver said that the tone of 8 will be different from FA in a similar way that Empire Strikes Back was different from A New Hope. He even makes this clarification after that statement you brought up.
No no, I think Rey was channeling the dark side. In the book version, isn't Snoke talking to her when she stands above Kylo Ren? Telling her to kill him, to go to the dark side.
The movie implies that she brushed with the Dark Side. The book flat out says that Snoke tried to contact her and tempt her with the Dark Side. I think it would be really cool if Rey was really tempted with the Dark Side. Like REALLY tempted. Then Kylo goes from Dark to Light. And Rey goes from Light to Dark. Now THAT would be an awesome trilogy.
From a real life sword combat perspective, they both are awful at sword fighting and wouldn't have lasted a few seconds in real sword combat, though Kylo is slightly better than Rey considering how many of Rey's attacks exposes her chest and most of her body, something that can be easily taken advantage of but Kylo is is simply terrible at sword fighting to do so
Except real sword fight doesn't take into consideration the fact that they can predict each others movement through the force...can push each other with there mind and that a light saber is almost weightless. Plus it's fucking fiction, who cares about realism in fiction...
OK, but from that perspective almost none of the lightsaber fights have been any good. The ones in the original trilogy were mostly fine, and Dooku actually had a couple of decent moves, but anything involving Palpatine or Yoda was laughable. The guy killed three Jedi Council masters in a few seconds but left himself open with every attack!
No One Can answer this question How did Rey pull the light-saber past Kylo?? She out matched a well trained force user that just threw her into a tree and Kylo can not force grab the saber he was closest to?? I don't want to hear the bullshit excuse that the saber has a mind of its own and knew because it has a brain with AI and whatever, who its real master was.
I've always wondered, do the filmmakers ever consider the different lightsaber forms, like do they talk to their stunt specialists and actors and tell them which form the character is using, or is it that the forms are based off of real life martial arts that just so happen to correspond and people make the connections that way...
I'm fairly sure the lightsaber forms are a complete unknown to the filmmakers. It's only the story group, the canon masters, that take them into account at all. I personally wish the forms would be given more attention.
Personally i find that the Lightsaber Forms are easily noticed in the films, especially when Obi Wan and Anakin fight, also Sidious and Windus forms are noticable if you look closely.
The lightsaber styles they use in the films are based off their personality and other factors. Due to the variety of lightsaber forms that exist, it usually isn't difficult for people who know about them to put the facts together. It's mostly for the more hardcore Star Wars fans. Lightsaber forms are mostly mentioned in comics, video games, novels, and the television shows.We will rarely have a reference in the movie.
Well, if lightsaber forms ARE considered in the movies, then Rey is 100% confirmed to be Palpatine's descendant. Because the best way to describe her fighting style would be ''Imagine if Palpatine was a bit tipsy and got into a fight, and was angrier than usual''.
oh believe me dude, as a pro boxer I asure you that even a stab wound would make me lose agains't an 80 years old grandpa, or a fit young girl. People just don't seem to understan how mortal wounds diminish your skills.
PubliusAfricanus no, she's clumsy, it's her opponent who it's almost fainted... yes, her ability to use the force was rushed... almost as when Luke used the force to shot the death star. I asure you she would have lost to kylo if he wasn't fucking shot. I'm amazed how you people underestimate pain and injuries... and yes, Kylo could use the Force to diminish pain, so basically he changed pain from a fucking bowcaster (like a shotgun) for a stab wound. Try to fight a 17 years old girl with a stab wound in the gut or the liver.
very very good! I also saw this as the Force awakening in Rey. throughout the entire movie Rey, Finn, and others are able to do things that they wouldn't have been able to do before.
Son of T'Chaka you call that a fight? Kylo was fucking toying with him it was more a one sided crush with Kylo lengthening it for his own enjoyment. As for escaping the first order, A didn't do it alone, most of the badass shit was done by Poe and 2 that sequence was ridden with cringe worthy bad jokes made at the expense of the heroes. Still not even close to the person who was supposed to be Reys co-star rather then bumbling sidekick
Ashbringer36 Kylo had been trained since adolescence to wield a light saber. Finn had used it once before this and still got a hit on him. Toying or not Finn was impressive for having no training no training whatsoever.
Al Smith having no training with a lightsaber.... Ahem, who else in this story has never touched a lightsaber before? I believe her name stars with R and has powers she shouldn't have like telekenisis and force persuade.
Man I got to say, I love your videos. You analyze and explain everything so well, things that didn't make sense to me before are now far more understandable. Keep up the good work mate!!! 👍
One deleted scene was Snoke noting Kylo Ren had compassion for Rey and that his failure was due to his weakness not her strength. It was a pity because its inclusion would have make sense in the Kylo Ren/Rey fight. He lost because he held himself back out of affection for Rey.
David Navarro ya he held back once he saw her get the lightsaber and he knew that they were cousins. And he is really really injured.
I think a few of the deleted scenes would help the movie.
David Navarro Did not stop him from killing his father. Or hundreds of other innocent people.
Harriscandoit He had disdain for and a much deeper reason (Dark side power) to kill his father. He had compassion for Rey, and had no motive to actually increase his Dark Side power (he already knew that it weakened him to kill people he cared for).
I just had an idea. People complain about the interrogation scene and the fact that Rey was able to resist. But Kylo was actually reading her mind and seeing in her past. Maybe he sees something disturbing that makes him feel for her and give up his own deffenses. That's when he, not knowing, let her in his own mind.
Yes! Yes! Finally someone understands! When I see those two again i'll destroy them and Skywalker!
I'm like the first order and i will never a traitor to the first order
I know a good to destroy the time machine go back in time stop luke join the empire instead the rebels
Spelling error
Im a big fan sir. have a great day
you want to know what happened to your grandfather? the darkside drove him MAD
I think people forgot that Snokes asked Kylo verry straitfowardly to bring Rey to him. Kylo was never gonna kill her.
Yeah
Frederic Beaudet forgot about that! 👍
Just like how Vader could have destroyed Luke in RotJ but wanted to try and turn him instead.
@@ChristopherCerda42 except Vader didn't lose to Luke in Empire. He backed luke in a corner and gave him a choice.
Rey SLICED Ren on his face and grounded him! He lost. She could have killed him if it weren't for the base about to blow.
There's no theory, just Disney promoting their new SW mascot.
Should have cut off her arm then
1) Shot by Chewie
2) Emotional trauma from killing his father
3) Clearly isn't trying to kill Rey, "Bring her to me"
4) You can actually watch Kylo Ren stop trying when they're locked together at the end, probs because of #2
Xancrim also got hit in the shoulder by finn
Jabbed in the shoulder by Finn
Batman if you like Star Wars, you’re a fan. Fuck you
Batman just because being injured powers him doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.
@@howdoichangemyusername9802 yes but hes a trained fucking sith lord. It makes absolutely no sense.
i think the main problem why so many people are dissapointed with kylo is their high expectation.
i mean untill this movie, every time we saw a sith or a dark jedi, they were presented very strong and nearly overpowered so that only great jedi-masters were capable of beating them.
but kylo is not nearly as strong. he is not fully trained and only a student not even close to a master. and beside this he also suffered two extreme heavy traumata before his fight with rey, one physical nature, one psychological nature: The bowcaster wound from chewy and the death of his father han solo.
so i totaly agree with you and your explanation of the fight.
manuel laslo don't make excuses for bad writing bro.
People it's just stupid about this topic, and it's mostly because most of star wars fans haven't been involved into a real fight yet. I'm a fighter (a boxer) and what Stupendous says about the rounds it's totally true. You could bring Tyson at his best shape of his life, but I asure you if he fought about 12 rounds, after that he could get defeated by almost any lesser fighter, hell even by an amateur who knows how to defend himself.
I will put another example: Kylo was injured. Let's suppose his force abilities grant him the power to survive and even feel less pain... so now let's suppose I, a pro fighter, get's stabbed with a knife in the gut. I can swear to god that even a grandpa with no fighting experience could knock me down after that and I would even die afterwards... and I said a stab wound because that's more likely what Kylo felt in that moment, since he was injuried with a more severe wound but he diminished the pain with the force = stabb wound (for me) and even in that case it's almost impossible to keep fighting. And yes, I know this is star wars and "this is sci fantasy", but in that regard people wouldn't complain about a girl winning a fight, you try to apply real life fact to understand how she won, and I answer with real life examples: it's totally possible.
histatimaniples try to fight a 20 year old girl who deadlifts 160 pounds (Daisy Ridley lifts that) with a stab wound in the gut or the liver and then we talk. I insist: people underestimate pain and injuries a lot.
i agree with you bro but i feel like he is only going to be that "weak" or "untrained" in The Force Awakens. I think that in the next movie his abilities with jump tremendously.
He is 30 and a Skywalker.
I used to think he took a bolt that knocks Storm Troopers off the ground weakened him a lot.
If Kylo was fresh and wanted to kill, Finn and Rey would be dead. Its that simple.
Kensei Even if you narrowed it down to "wanted to kill" he'd still probably win.
And you ignored everything that anyone has said which disproved your assertion.
Agreed. Any normal Jedi or i guess Sith would never even get touched by a non jedi in a light saber duel. Even with his training with that baton, Fin never should have gotten close to touching him. He would have been immobilized by the force. I could have fended off her attacked and killed her before she meditated. The way she telegraphed her stab move showed her inexperience. When she had her back to the chasm and was on the heels of her feet, kylo simply could have force shoved her off in a split second.
That all being said, I was totally fine with it all! I love the duel at the end and i've watched it probably 20 times at least. It didn't ruin it for me at all. It was an excellent movie.
Star War videos
Why did Rey read Kylo's mind than when he captured her ? This is just a movie.They made Rey a Mary Sue and they made all men,weak stupid idiots who lose to Rey cause they are fucking sexists.
Kylo could’ve won like u said he wanted to turn her not kill her.
Anthony K And shes a mary sue
@RJ DA lol ikr!
RJ DA lol his names “american patriot” of course he’s a sheep.
despite this explanation, im still very upset. This is rey's first time using this weapon. She hasn't even practiced with it. Obi-wan even said that it was an elegant weapon, not as clumsy or random as a blaster. Which means it required focus and many practice sessions. Even Luke was horrible with it to begin with. Meanwhile although Kylo hasn't had much hand-to-hand combat, im sure he has had many practice sessions. My problem isn't with his lack of skill (he actually does have skill) its the fact Rey has too much skill. This is her first time picking up a lightsaber and using it. A lightsaber handles differently and weighs differently than other weapons she's used. Its like giving a expert in broadsword combat a katana to fight with. Sure they do have some basic knowledge, but they won't be as good as they were with a broadsword because they aren't used to a katana. This is a lot like Rey, and its shown inaccurately. And its not because of the force or some bs. The Jedi would have to train multiple sessions to learn how to fuel their dueling through the force. She has little to no experience with either. It's just... so upsetting. I could understand they duel but she only fends him off in order to get finn to safety and it would end up being like a Vader scene where Ren watches on the ground as they take off, angry that she escaped his imminent victory. To me that would be much more satisfying.
TheMock5000
OMG ! FUCKING MISOGYNIST!!
Oh believe me dude. I can asure you that if you stab mike Tyson with a knife on his leg, and then you tried to melee him, even you could bring him down. I know what I'm talking about, people underestimate wounds a lot and that's ok, but people who have lived this will be surprised Kylo was able to walk, and the only reason he didn't die it's thanks to the force.
Francisco Arcos 1: Why bring him up specifically? 2: Mike Tike doesn't have the force. 3: Kylo was ready for her. It wasn't really a surprise attack. Unless you've buffed up, or attack him stealthily, you aren't going to stab him. Rey did neither. She didn't have any experience or actual skill (strength) with a lightsaber.... or even the force, or tried to surprise attack him (stealth)
Mega Guy43 Oh my god, a fucking Feminist. (I don't know if you are or not, but i don't give a fuck) If you think i said all that because she's female, you're fucking stupid. I didn't say anything to do with her gender. so shut the fuck up and next time think about it before you make irrational accusations.
TheMock5000 1-Because I'm a boxer and for the matter serves as an example (If I talked about Martin you wouldn't know about him).
2-Mike doesn't have the force, that's why I talk about a stab wound and not a fucking bowcaster shot in the gut (which I think would be similar to a shotgun).
3-It doesn't matter how ready he was, with him being as he was he would have lost to almost anyone. I bring examples from real life because people try to explain with real life logic how silly was the fact that he lost, and believe me: by real life logic he's luky to be alive.
I never heard the term "Mary sue" until tfa came out, then it was like the entire Internet learned a new word
It's kind of misused. It originally means the writer putting themselves in the work and not be questioned. Now people think it means invulnerable female.
Jamdude13 Because of max landis
Nope. I used to call Ahsoka from TCW Season 1, Mara Jade and Alice from Resident Evil Mary Sues.
It's a literary word, you hear it from critics and readers all the time because they're so many damn mary sues in literature lol and Morty Sue's for guys, that's what I call them at least
+derp ish I thought it was Gary Sue for men
Rey won because it's a modern PG-13 rated American film directed towards at very large target audience, mainly mindless film goers, rather than dedicated Star Wars fans and if she lost everyone would say it's sexist
You win a cookie.
I'll throw in an extra cookie
Ironic. Revenge of the Sith was also PG-13.
Lol all the other movies were PG too.
Also it's a Star wars movie...of course it caters to the mass audience. You stupid or something?
Exactly. Thank you. This guy gets it. She had to win because it's Disney, she's basically a "princess" and because "Muh feminism." Try to justify it with all this other babble and bullshit if you want, but thems the facts.
that blaster shot clearly would kill a normal person. Plus kylo is bleeding out during the fight. More he moves and exerts energy the faster the blood spills out. Basically hes dying while hes fighting fin and rey. So doesnt take a genius to figure that he was clearly at a huge disadvantage. He may be force sensitive but hes still a human, bound to the laws of biology. Plus Rey was not an inexperienced fighter. She fought to survive every day on jakku with her staff. Makes sense that she could defend herself against a dying Kylo who had no intention of killing her.
True.
If you watched The Last Jedi, let me know if you'd like to edit your comment. Kylo Ren was ridiculously weak. And don't tell me Rey had some training from Luke, cause she didn't. She was practicing with a rock on the cliff.
if you saw it too, rey was fighting the guard one by one and she was almost killed, kylo ren was fighting the guard in one vs 4 and was winnig but him seeing rey "loosing" her fight made him lose concentration and lose his lightsaber so if he was alone he would have win and for why rey is so strong like snoke say the one in darkness grow stronger the one in light oppose him so the force is making rey stronger for the balance of the force
Sine lol did you even watch last jedi, in that fight scene kylo was fighting 1 v 3 while Rey was fighting 1v1. How is he ridiculously weak? If you read my original comment, I never said he was super strong, I said he was at disadvantage physically because he was "dying" while he was fighting/he had no intention of killing rey. Plus Rey was didnt have training, she had life training. She had been fighting to stay alive her whole life [used that staff to defend herself ] and she was force sensitive. So she had experience in fighting, she wasn't some scrub.
DOnONe733 I agree with you. But she is somewhat of a scrub if you consider Kylo had formal jedi training, even for a while, and he was trained under Snoke.
Im baffled by some people's obsession with this fight.
I loved how it was a departure from the dance like choreography of the prequel fights.
If felt dangerous, gritty, and uncertain. Kylo was deeply unhinged and injured, Rey was terrified and fighting for her life, Finn was foolishly brave! It felt like everyone was inexperienced and DESPERATE.
only snae person here
Same
My thoughts exactly. Before TFA, the last Star Wars movie where the fights looked like actual fights and not dances was TPM. Look at the fight with Dooku at the end of AotC - there was a full few seconds where Anakin and Dooku just waved their lightsabers around in the air making pretty lights. Then you have RotS, which had some strong scenes but still looked choreographed (the deaths of Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin particularly jumped out).
Then you get TFA's fights. No "hit the blade" nonsense, no silly jumps and flips, just two people trying their damnedest to kill or be killed. Say what you like about the writing, but there was more feeling in those two scenes than in some entire movies.
TBH I've never understood why some believe the prequel style fights weren't dangerous, gritty, desperate and uncertain. Like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon vs Darth Maul for example. That fight seems like the embodiment of all of those things. I remember being completely blown away by it. Same with Darth Sidious vs Maul and Savage, Anakin vs Obi-wan, Maul vs Pre Vizsla and many others. IMO they felt more dangerous because they had everything you mentioned plus the deadly speed and precision. They were also more raw and violent because they incorporated more hand to hand combat. Perfect example would be all the times Obi-wan and Anakin struck and kicked each other during ep 3. At one point Anakin even tries to strangle his master. In ep 1 Maul strikes Qui-Gon in the face with the hilt of his blade before killing him milliseconds later. It was so quick and dirty that everyone had to stay on their toes, like simply blinking could get them killed.
People throw around the phrase dance choreography but I don't think it's very accurate. IMO fast paced is better. I also believe the Rey and Fin vs Kylo choreography felt less original than the prequel style, because it resembled more traditional sword fighting (love those too btw). Not trying to hate or anything. I just wanted to contribute.
I agree with all you said. The duels got better with every movie and like you, all the duels in ep's 1,2 and 3 were amazing to me. Only duel i don't like is the very first one in ep 4 with Obi-wan vs Darth. It is so lame compared to all the others but i understand there was less technology and i don't think Lucas put much effort into the fight, maybe it wasn't a focal point for him. I can't wait for the next one!
Anyway, this is coming from a guy that enjoyed TPM. Star Wars trilogy was my favorite as a kid so even though TPM was ripped apart by most, it was still amazing for me to watch it after all those years since RotJ
Rey would be a great double blade weilder
If she doesn't keep the Skywalker saber I hope she receives a Double Bladed
Robo_Destroyer / Darth Troller Maybe, although the fighting style for a staff is completely different than a double-bladed weapon.
Eugenideddis kind of
Star Wars Legacy I think Kylo trained with Obi Wan's blade and then as he turns back to the light, Rey puts together Anakin's and Obi Wan's and some staff parts to connect them and creates her blue double bladed, and Kylo Ren will put a green crystal in his cross guard lightsaber
A lightsaber pike would be more suitable for her.
Honestly I actually have a problem with Kylo being shot to begin with because we see in the very beginning of the movie that he stops the shot from Poe that he had no warning of and stopped like it was nothing. And he kept it stopped in mid air even shortly after he got into the ship. He had such a powerful and intimidating introduction and then seems to get progressively weaker as the movie goes on
Michael Runde I don't remember exactly but he occupied at the moment was he not? Like he was emotionally unstable after that specific scene with his dad.
Didn't the video say he was distracted and weakened by killing HAn/his father?
Michael Runde You do realize he had just murdered his father before that right? He wasn't exactly paying attention to Chewie
+Nick94956 lol good point
Michael Runde you have to remember they were to different situations when Poe shot at him he was in a clear calm state of mind so he was able to sense the shot but when he was shot by Chewie he just got done killing his father which only weakened and made him emotional making him unable to sense the shot from Chewie.
I feel like it would've been a better fight if Rey or Fin sustained a serious injury. It would at least make Kylo Ren look a tiny bit more powerful rather than him getting his ass beat by a untrained Padawan.
And I'm not talking about a few cuts, I'm talking about severed limbs and shit like that.
Finn was hospitalized, comatose for a while and likely could not have moved on his own after help. That's a pretty rough beating, even if he didn't literally lose an arm.
Luminite It would have been better if they just removed Finn from the fight, problem solved
Luminite I would like to add that I’m not sure Kylo even wanted to injury Rey because the risk of accidentally killing her would be too severe. He wanted her alive, to bring her to Snoke (remember Snoke said “Bring her to me”) or maybe even take her as his own apprentice.
SkyOut Honestly this is true. I’ve seen so many people angry about Luke becoming a force ghost... which is literally becoming One with the Force. It’s sad to be honest
No I actually enjoyed this duel. I always recognized Kylo's physical and mental state. To me what this video says should seem pretty obvious. Especially considering that when comparing this duel to the prequel trilogy, at this point no true masters are alive. Luke himself when we last saw him while his style was a bit more polished than Kylo's was still raw in others. I see this duel as a homage to the duels from the original trilogy, not the duels of the prequel trilogy. I like to take all duels at face value. Therefore from seeing this in the theater back in December of 2015 it seemed obvious that the reasons stated in this video are the reasons Kylo losy.
Lost*
Phantom8Productions yes
I thought the same thing it was obvious the mental and physical toll affected kylo's duel greatly and when people complain it's like do u need to watch the film 20 times to get it?
I agree. This duel including Finn with it (sorry to me its just one long a$$ duel not two to me) is in my Top 3 with Luke Vader Bespin one and Obi Wan Vader mustafar 2. It is an incredible gritty duel that doesn't have the crazyness of the prequels with two force users who are still very raw and it shows. The complainers act like Kylo has mastered Form 4 or 5 and didn't take a freakin laser shot to the stomach either. Add in the fact that Rey using her force sensitiveness in the backhalf caught Kylo probably by surprise while injured and it makes people simple sense.
I agree it did feel like an original trilogy fight
Love this. I'm tired of the Kylo Ren hate and the ridiculous Mary Sue comments! Thanks for the very informative video. More people need to look deeper into this battle. One of my favorites of the series.
Han Solo You were killed by your son, and it didn't even make him stronger. What a scrub. :^)
the battle wasn't the problem, she being a mechanic, pilot....... is
No, she really is, and she is OP as fuck, using jedi mind tricks without knowing it or when she pilots millenium falcon. So until her powers and habilities aren't explained i will consider her as a Mary Sue. And Kylo Ren, well the problem with this character is that we don't know (yet) exactly why he fell to the dark side which could make him a bit annoying.
Han Solo really, Want to elaborate on that? Rey could pilot ships and fix things because she literally spent her entire life scavenging and learning about the mechanics of ships, she could not fly the millennium falcon better than Han but she could at least keep up with him and help him seeing as she had spent some time on the ship since he had last seen it. Rey struggled to let go of her compulsion to go back to Jakku and wait for her family her whole journey in the movie was finding family with friends, she definitely Faced challenges with that. She was captured by Kylo and yes she did escape but she was as shocked as the audience she has a power that she doesn't understand yet being a powerful hero doesn't mean she is a badly written character. And as stated in the video there were many reasons why she was able to disarm Kylo in the final battle, he was bleeding out and didn't want to kill her not to mention his somewhat messed up state of mind and lack of control at the time, she was a some what competent fighter having to learn or die on Jakku, calling Rey a Mary Sue is just lazy and you parroting some one else's Criticism of her character just goes to show how easy it is for you to jump on the bandwagon of hate, this is just the first of three movies and in my opinion actually did a better job than ANH at setting up the main protagonist, Luke the farm boy didn't even blink an eye when he blasted stormtroopers and then made an impossible shot using the force, it's a double standard that too many fail to notice
nwworrior28 , she was a Mary Sue though. No denying it!
very good breakdown and explanation.
Thanks!
1titans stupendous indeed.
The Stupendous Wave I do have a question about that blaster shot though, a few questions actually:
1) Didn't we see Chewie use the bowcaster before in the OT? If so, it wasn't as powerful as shown in TFA.
2) If I remember correctly, the blaster shot hit Kylo more on his side than directly (granted you did mention about the Stormtroopers flying from an indirect shot), but it still doesn't explain how an "injured" Kylo managed to get ahead of Finn and Rey in the forest (there's no transport or vehicle in the shot behind Kylo nor any entrances). So Kylo somehow to stay somewhat ahead of them while being injured?
3) Given the probable mindset of Kylo at this point, he did take Finn out relatively easy once he took the fight seriously, why didn't do the same to Rey? Rey has no real combat experience (training or otherwise) since the planet of Jakku is highly under established (compared to when Kenobi said about Mos Esiley being a hive of scum and villainy). Plus there wasn't anyone on Jakku wielding a blaster on Jakku otherwise Rey would've had one herself.
Chewbacca crafted his own Bowcaster, he used spare Stormtrooper blaster parts to do so, he may have improved his original design or made a new model out of a more recent Stormtrooper blaster model
Best Star Wars channel in the galaxy!
So basically you’re saying that it wasn’t even a fair fight to begin with and that if Kylo Ren was in good health and at full strength he would have killed Rey.
Well, seeing how their fight went in TROS, that’s pretty accurate
can you please explain why rey was able to use a jedi mind trick on the storm trooper considering she didnt even know if the force was real like 40 mins before.
i mean any one can be trained to use a melee weapon like a light saber but to wield the force when 40 mins before you didnt even know what it was or if it was.
I mean, how did Luke manage to shoot a bomb into a 2m hole while flying at maximum speed without prior training?
Mr Galactus he used to bullseye womp rats in his t-16 back home their not much bigger than 2 meters
***** i dont think so definitely the worst star wars film but still awesome in my opinion. i think the fast and furious movies are the worst movies of the decade.
MultiBearsfan54 Sure that's exactly the same as shooting a target while you're moving at an insane speed, in a space ship that's being shot at by thousands of lasers.... Face it, you're just blinded by nostalgia
Something tells me ep. 7 has way more back story compared to other movie series...
I think when the sequel trilogy ends there will come a lot of star wars series out
Grand Admiral Dellios Well, yea, that's what Disney intends to do. They're not stopping at episode 9.
Sadly
I think I heard on top of this current trilogy, they also plan to release an episode 10-12 on top of multiple "A Star Wars Story" movies. In total around 11 movies -ish.
That's because you probably seen the originals back to back. probably even grew up with them. Trust me...if you only saw episode 4 alone, you would have a lot of questions.
He wanted to ask her out
Donnie Yen Jedi Nah he wants her hot pastrami on his face, know what I’m saying
XD
Rey channeled the force before her attack and used it to center herself and guide her attack. She says "The force" closes her eyes, thinks for a minute, then comes out swinging and dominate Kylo. She let go and gave herself to the force. The novelization says that she heard a voice prompting her to kill him when she had the chance, which makes me think she was tapping into the dark side of the force, even unknowingly.
That's logic.
The bow caster shot should have killed him alone it's crazy that he managed the fight again after
people it's just being too stupid about this topic, I'm sure any of them would be capable of even fighting after being stabbed with a knife. Hell, you could even fuck Tyson's face if he was shot in the leg... it's more likeable that the guys who don't understan how kylo lost, they probably have never been into a real fight.
Kmaximus Connor I've played football on a broken toe
Kmaximus Connor And yet maul surviving his wrong. imbecile, kylo used his hatred to survive.
Okay now you just need to take a blast from a rocket launcher and fight.
Golden Dolphin that's adrenaline working out and it depends of the fracture you had. If you had like a fisure it's normal you even didn't notice the injury till after the match. But if you tear appart your ancle, believe me you would have cried like a little girl in the floor (everyone would).
I don't know, Reys style looks a LOT like Darth Sidious. those stabbing motions, the short swings and speed
2006jakebob For me she fights with saber like her staff
I must say that she lacked controll over lightsaber, especialy while stabbing. Look at that telegraphic slash, when Kylo could just cut her hands off (also decapitate her or just injure torso or legs) and way she moved. She almost cut off her own leg and burnt her back. Btw, how the fuck did she escape from over the cliff? And why Kylo suddenly became weaker? Dont get me wrong, it isn't the worst fight in cinema "evah", but Finn fought better. If not for plot reasons Finn would be the one to stand against Kylo. He was really looking that competent. Or Kylo and Rey were that incompetent. Whatever suits anybody. I think, that if Finn would barely hold against teasing want-to-be-sith just long enough to let Falcon to get to them (and earth splitting to save our severly injured heroe) the film would really gain a lot. Rey wouldn't look like Mary Sue, doing everything of importance, Finn wouldn't be Gary Stue, becouse Kylo would just be playing with him. I can hear it with my imagination. "Do you think you are Jedi? You are not. I killed them all." said with happy grin, or "They send a sheep to fight a wolf? It is almost funny." with little gentle smile. I know they wanted to portray him as split between light and dark side, but that whole thing left us without any antagonists , except for faceless horde and not-appearing leader. If anybody disagrees, he can. I won't make it forbidden. In fact i encourage discussion. I may not speak later, but still.
PS. It would be nice if they added bastard mandalorian mercenary as an allie. Whole knowledge about fighting jedi and sith his people gathered would be very helpfull. And him teaching Finn (in scenario i proposed) and Luke teaching Rey would be really, really cool. Two styles of fighting and both kinda efficient.
this aged well
Didn't he lose because A) Bowcaster shot to the guy and B) wasn't he trying to make her join him this him not having his focus on detaching her head from her shoulders?
*the gut I mean. Bloody typos.
both
Incintos 98 Eh, the shot wasn't a direct shot, it merely scathed him (hence the little blood droplets on the snow instead of a gushing wound, then again plasma shot so it would be cauterized). Plus even then he managed fairly well against his fight with Finn and Rey until Kylo talked about being a teacher.
Plus given the fact that Kylo easily dispatched Finn, I'm sure Kylo could've figured a way of doing the same to Rey without heavily injuring her (slicing an arm off would've thrown Rey into shock).
Christian McMahon He didn't intend to dispatch Finn without killing him. He intended to get him out of his way.
SteelRazorBlade // AdamSRB Doesn't matter if Finn lived or died to Kylo, as long as he was out of Kylo's way. Which doesn't change anything I've said beforehand.
Rey and finn shouldn't be able to engage Kylo in the first place, just imagine you having to fight that guy with a weapon that you have never used and feels like a flashlight (aka the blade weights nothing).
Not to mention he has a trump card called the Force. Finn shouldve been dead in 2 seconds
I thought in canon lightsabers are actually very heavy to wield. Also did you watch the video where it's explained why he didn't want to use the force as told by the director himself?
Drizzy Pizzman Finn shoulda been thrown there the air An impaled on a tree dying at starkiller
@@drizzypizzman5849 Finn was one of the best melee fighters in his division as a stormtrooper
@@SoupsSB ahuh yeah right and how much use is that melee when your opponent has control of the force?
If in a fresh situation and Kylo wasn't so physically and *for lack a better word* spiritually crippled he would've easily taken down Rey. I think it likely to happen in Ep. VIII as the situation will likely be far different from what happened here.
It better be, the roles had better be entirely reversed with Rey cowering and mentally begging for her life. If not then fuck episode 9
Ashbringer36 What it should've been is an entirely different argument. I think we'll see a very different situation in Ep. VIII where Rey loses and loses really bad. It's the second chapter of the trilogy so it must reflect Empire in that sense.
Darth Trigger I agree but I'm going to phrase it a different way
I don't think she's going to get beaten, I'm boycotting Episode 9 if she dosen't.
Rey beat Kylo twice.After he captured her,she read HIS mind.Magcially had jedi powers cause she's a girl.Or was Kylo "injured" at that point too ? Feminazi shit.
Rey beat Kylo cause they wanted her to beat him.Rey beeing a Mary Sue and all men beeing stupid idiots,loosing to Rey is BS.Sexist,feminazi shit.
All great points. However, I still find her a bit too competent in a wide variety of fields, for a simple scavenger. Expert pilot, pin point accuracy with a blaster, incredible strength, speed and stamina for a starving girl. All things explained by the force I guess, but even Anakin was not that gifted without training, and he was supposedly the single most naturally gifted force sensitive to have ever lived. Just a bit too much in my opinion, still enjoyed the movie though, can't wait for the next one
Not true - Anakin at 6 years old (?) was already gifted without any training. In Episode 1 won a pod race and destroyed a droid ship. since Rey is likely the same bloodline, the Force is strong in her. Luke destroyed the Death Star without any training as well...
Anakin was inventing and repairing droids and damn near anything else, winning pod races (something most humans couldn't do period), flying fighter ships, and more when he was still wetting the bed. Luke was deflecting lasers from a Marksman-H combat remote from near point-blank range *blindfolded* with Obi Wan before ever receiving any real formal training, aside from a little bit of Force Meditation iirc, and swiftly went from getting owned by Tusken Raiders and Thugs to beating Rancors naked and blowing up planet destroyers.
Every Star Wars MC was basically a Disney character, this is nothing new even now that it actually IS one.
Mads Andreasen some problems I had with her were that the jedi mind trick thing is a high level skill she hadn't even heard of in tales due to her isolation, but she could do the moment she felt the force under her control. Another bigger one in the actual fight is that the blade of a lightsaber is nigh weightless, yet through the entire fight she was thrusting it as if it were top heavy and difficult to hold. she would've done better and not looked like a floundering idiot if she actually swung it instead of the pointless full body jabs.
Check the theory of kenobi being her grandfather, explains the mindtrick. Makes a lot of sense.
I saw nothing in Force Awakens more outrageous than a small boy piloting a starfighter blowing up a droid control ship, or a kid from Tatooine putting a photon torpedo into the core of the deathstar without a targeting computer. She wasn't pulling Yoda flip moves against Kylo; she took advantage of Kylo's desire to turn her instead of kill her, and she tapped into her awakening of the force to defeat an already greatly crippled opponent. There's nothing else to say here...
Plus he was under orders not to kill Rey. He couldn't turn up his game and risk killing her.
Orders? I thought he himself wanted to lure her to the Dark Side.
T. When kylo is talking to snoke about how she risisted him when he was torturing her snoke says "bring her to me" obviously implying he wants to turn her to the dark side for her power if klyo was to kill rey he would have done it but he didn't or he would be in deep shit with snoke
A moment that I thought was quite important that was left out of this video is when Kylo says "You need a teacher, I can show you the ways of the force." Rey seems to realize what she's been missing in her fighting style and centers herself, drawing on the force and giving her the upper hand. Before this, she was frantic and fought without finesse or discipline of any kind. I thought it was pretty obvious this is what had happened.
still doesn´t explain her skill
The thing with the staff argument is that it can only be used by people who have never fought with a sword and a polearm or doesn't know anything about martial arts when it comes to these two weapons.
When fighting with a staff you fight with the ability to hold onto every point of the staff without injuring yourself. A sword fight is completely different in nature as you hold at one certain point, namely, the grip. Seeing as half-swording would go very poorly with a lightsaber, there's no reason you would hold any other place than the grip. Since you hold a sword differently from a pole-arm you'd also fight differently.
It takes a lot of time to master sword fighting and previous experience with something like pole-arm will not help much if at all. Saying that you would be a good sword fighter because you've previously fought with another melee weapon is like saying you'd be good with a bow and arrow because you've used a crossbow before or that because you've hot experience using a spear you'd be good with a sword as well.
The real reason Ray won is not because Ren was injured or because he was in an emotional state of mind, but because Rey fixes all her problems herself and isn't depended on anyone else. She is a Mary Sue who is an expert pilot, who is an excellent martial artist, who is able to use a mind trick without any previous experience, who is better at Han Solo in understanding problems with his own ship, who can out match someone trained in the force since he was a child, who would have managed to escape from Starkiller base even if Finn and co. never showed up, who can beat a skiller lightsaber dualists and who doesn't have any character flaws or limitations.
This will likely change in the next Episode were she meets new challenges, but as of now, Rey is the ultimate Mary Sue and that is the reason she won against Ren.
I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I think the Mary Sue complaints came from just simply a lack of context. TFA was a glorified movie pilot that pushed a mystery box. I mean sure it is competently made. That's what I'll say for Abrams films, even if I do NOT like him as a director. But still, the Rey fight was big mishap. And the fact it hinges on Episode Eight isn't good for this movie to which should have strived to be a standalone movie.
This is just a movie.They made Rey a Mary Sue and they made all men,weak stupid idiots who lose to Rey cause they are fucking sexists.
*****
Your ability in the force doesn't make you a good sword wielder, which is my point.
It's just silly and idiotic that you can just say that someone is just born God-mode and don't need any training or practice at all. Even if they're powerful in the force, they should need proper training to actualise their powers. Luke and Anakin had to train their force powers, but Rey is just born with it all and is by default just the greatest Jedi ever.... just cause.
I mean, she doesn't really need Luke's training at all the way she's acting
The biggest issue is that videos like this have to be made to try and explain away how Rey was able to win. It wasn't set up well enough in story for her to actually win or use a Jedi mind trick.
The real question how did he bleed from a blaster wound it should have cauterized
it *is* a remake of a new hope, the only star wars movie to feature blood up until now.
Because a Bowcaster is not just another blaster, it fires a metal quarrel encased in plasma.
He was beating the wound to let the pain empower him, he could have cracked open the wound and caused it to bleed from hitting it too much.
adam wills
I think he was probably wearing a type of armor under the cloak. When shot the metal could have absorbed a regular blaster bolt but the bow caster caused the metal to melt and shoot backwards from the blow.
He could've had molten metal from armor puncture his torso.
Or he hit so hard that he cracked the cauterized wound and started to bleed. He was beating himself to feel pain so he could get stronger. Because the dark side feeds on pain and hate.
Those are my ideas. Or because there was blood in a New Hope and that would be a cool allusion to that scene.
Because they haven't had blood in Star Wars since Obi-wan cut off that guys arm in the bar in A New Hope and it's about damn time they brought it back. Fuck being "cauterized". I wanna see blood. We already have space wizards using mystical abilities. A little blood isn't too far-fetched.
i wouldve been happier if kylo ren violently struck them both down within a few seconds call me a dark mofo but its tru
Rbreeze 78 definitely, bring back the dark side hahah
Rbreeze 78
But, but he basically did exactly that with Finn...
Rbreeze 78 dude, you're such an idiot, in this series there's gonna be up to 12 episodes plus with the "Rogue One" Episode dumbass, I'm pretty sure you didn't know that until now that I just told you but pretty much onto things of stupid comments about movies like this that pretty much if you don't like it the Series when Disney took over that George Lucas allowed to come together & George Lucas with JJ. Abrams made episode VII then quit watching the movies & move on watching something else, I'm 30 yrs old & it's my older brother's fault for getting me into watching the series of tv shows on Demand & buy them on Blu-Ray as well, too. If you don't like my comment then you can just screw it
that's what should of happened, to let the viewers know how dangerous he is, for future movies.
I was hoping that Luke wouldve been the one to grab the lightsaber instead of rey
In my opinion, Episode VII did more harm to the Star Wars cannon than any other previous film, even the dreaded prequels.
First, it was a blatant, almost scene by scene rehash of A New Hope, just repurposed. How fans can't see this is bewildering to me. Casual fans, yes, but not actual fans. For those who can, I don't understand how they don't dislike the pure and evident fact that the film was a rehash.
Second, Starkiller Base was completely and utterly preposterous. A planet sized copy of the Death Star made by a faction that has less resources than the almighty empire and that destroys multiple planets.......? Please. The only reason why Starkiller Base was created was to one up the Death Star bc Abrams decided to copy the plot of Episode IV, story beat by story beat in order to play it safe. They played it SAFE. Safe to the point that they decided unabashedly to copy. Which makes sense considering the general public disliked the prequels, which were DIFFERENT. Disney wanted to protect their investment. That makes sense. Play it as safe as possible. Maximize investor returns. The circle of life and money.
But back to the second point - the problem with Starkiller Base is that it ups the ante so high, what subsequent possible threat can be presented? Where can they possibly go from there? A planet sized death weapon that can fire system destroying, undetectable projectiles across the galaxy. Abrams and the creative staff left Star Wars in a serious hole. Also, it seems as even less X-Wings were sent to attack and defeat the horrendously conceived base. If you're going to introduce something so blatantly and preposterously powerful into the story, why lesson it's legitimacy by making it so easily defeatable?
And third, and most relatable to the video, how is Rey so powerful? By making her so inexplicably powerful with virtually (not virtually, actually), no training, and making her capable of defeating Kylo Ren her first time using a Lightsaber, you completely undermine everything related to Jedi training that has been established prior.
What do I mean? It took Luke Skywalker yrs to be able to wield a Lightsaber effectively, and he trained from Obi-Wan and Yoda before confronting Vader. It took Anakin Skywalker over 10 yrs to achieve his potential. Rey being able to fight so proficiently, so soon, with virtually no training undermines the Star Wars mythos that has been built up to this point. Also, how can we possibly take Kylo Ren seriously anymore?
Yes, JJ Abrams is a great director, writer, and producer. Yes, I love his work. But The Force Awakens really created some serious problems for the Star Wars Universe. Yes, it made a lot of money. Was it enjoyable, overall? Yes. But I'm a huge Star Wars fan who enjoyed the originals as well as the prequels. And I think Episode VII did more harm than good.
CardinalRule starkiller base did not produce it's own energy for it's planet destroying blasts instead absorbing it from sources in space so I assume that is a lot of money saved on power generators also while the deathstar was built from scratch starkiller base is a modefied planet so I think that also helped to conserve the first order their recources
Could not agree more, and with so many possibilities for Abrams to take the story in a different, unique direction, it was a shame to see them regurgitate the story of A New Hope... And your argument about the training and time required to master the force and light saber combat is a corner stone of the Star Wars universe; I'm sad to see it so completely disregarded in order to fill in this giant plot hole and make tons of money. In my opinion, Rogue One was a superior and more mature movie. I hope to see the rest of the franchise move in this direction.
I also hope to see more stand alone films, especially some outside of the current Star Wars timeline. They don't need to involve stories at a galactic scale; maybe a young Sith discovered a way to resurrect an ancient Sith Lord, or a novice Jedi who was left stranded on a hostile world after his master has died... They can explore the force in more intimate ways than the current movies allow because of their constant focus on Galactic domination / annihilation forcing the narrative forward at a fast, and usually uneven, pace. I believe in Disney and I hope they grow from the success of Rogue one, but only time will tell.
CardinalRule good points.
Because he's not a Sith Lord.
Benny Chenley
We need more sith
Ananymouse 30 Well we ain't getting any most likely, though if they do some Old Republic movies we'll have some badasses
Ethan Smith
I wanna see the Confederacy of Independent Systems
I wouldn't mind seeing that
i like this saber fight because it seemed more organic and believable with each one just trying to survive
Organic; such an interesting term...
He was holding back. If he wanted to kill, when he sliced Finns back, he’d be dead. Same thing with Rey, he just wanted to capture her/knock her back.
wait... Getting your opponent to a location or your choosing....? Sounds like the high ground
this is one I just don't understand. he was seriously injured. I don't know why is constantly ignored. I'm glad the video brings it up. The directors clearly made it obvious that he was seriously impaired. constantly clutching his wound, showing his blood pooling at his feet. Even his swings with his lightsaber reflect his wounds, keeping his one arm protecting his wound. Yes Rey is clearly setup to be "specialy attuned" to the force and if that bothers you fair enough. But from the first time I saw the film I never thought something was weird about a half dead Kylo losing.
Andrew Yoder Vader wouldn't have let that stop him. Kilo Renn is a B-tch.
Agree with you. It was obvious to me when I was watching the movie. These people (sith and jedi) are strong, but not immortal.
Sith aren't human and neither are jedi but sith when mad gain power and energy. So according to that either kylo is just complete shit or he's half-jedi half sith.
I mean I wasn't done training
Kylo Ren ok
FAKE WANNABE
I AM KYLO
Kylo Ren i am most disappointed grandson.
Vader! I thought you're dead.
You know what would solve this? If Rey had been injured too. Like stabbed or had her hand cut off. If she had taken a big injury like kylo, Luke, or Anakin, I think we'd all feel better about this fight.
I'd wager she'll lose a leg somewhere in the 2 remaining films. :)
Well did you see the 8 ? Because it doesn't seem to .
Actually, most people who uses a lightsaber eventually has to lose a hand.
Hand? You mean head, right? That would be better. Kathleen Kennedy next.
@@Archon3960 aged like spoiled milk.
I've also heard from people that Kylo never really has anyone to light saber battle with so he was rusty
Yeah, that's his entire character, he's that guy who says he's all that
It could be the main reason. More than 10 years without a lightsaber fight can make you rusty.
+T. Rey had zero lightsaber fights. Zero experience with the force and light saber.
Ball Is Life And Kylo was shot with a bow caster, a weapon that can kill 3 at a time. Kylo is lucky to be alive, and it would have had to be a miracle for him to win against a stormtrooper (who according to the books was at the top of his class) and someone who has had to defend herself all her life. Kylo didn’t kill Rey because he wanted her as an apprentice, and once again according to the books “he had compassion for her”
did obi one hold off vader after not fighting anyone for years?
They explained this The Last Jedi, Kylo just killed his father and was shaken and was weak to the bone .
Not the point, he shouldn't have lost but the bullshit narrative forced the female to win as 'the force is female' and girls are totally badass and can't struggle, suffer, lose or have any kind of flaws.
@@adampeel6161 🤦🏿♂️ did you even watch the damn video man? It explains everything to why Kylo lost! Like are you so caught on that "The force is female" bs that you ignored the entire video?
All total bull shit. She could fly the falcon on day one and do advanced evasive maneuvers out of thin air. Any time they run into a wall they just gift Rey more power out of thin air. By the end of the trilogy she hasn't done any training and more powerful than anyone. Gtfo here.
He had also been shot with a wookie fucking bowcaster, which in the movie can take out multiple stormtroopers in one shot, and he was also wounded by Finn.
The fact that Chewbacca’s hit didn’t fucking kill him is the only really dumb part
Brandish so a scavenger who knows ships, has been shown to use a vehicle frequently and knows the in’s and outs of a starship because of her entire life spent scavenging and picking apart starships, that’s just “knowing everything for no reason”?
I have a question: How come Anakin's lightsaber is always turned on differently? In a new hope, it is turned on with a switch from the side. In the force awakens, the button on the back is used. In the prequels and the clone wars tv series, it was turned on with the red button on the front (not a hundred percent sure on this one). Any explanation for this?
Arc 48 I understand what you mean, noticed it myself
Arc 48 If you actually look at the design of the lightsaber it's changed over the years. Certain buttons and stuff were changed. Maybe Luke worked on the lightsaber to make it more his own.
Sam Driver not really. From what I can tell, there was always a switch on the side, a button on the front, and a button on the back. Maybe all three could've turned the lightsaber on.
Arc 48 But if you look at the button on the side it's changed over the years. The last time Anakin used it was RotS and If you look at the button on the side in ANH it's different. It's also different again in ESB. When Finn uses the lightsaber he activates it with the button on the back but Luke uses the button on the side. Could be that the configuration was changed along with the buttons for easier activation.
Sam Driver I guess Obi Wan and Luke and possibly (but probably not) Maz could've made some modifications to it.
I theorize that Rey became a powerful force user because of her accidental force bond that was formed with Kylo during the Interrogation scene. Hence why she was able to use the mind trick on a stormtrooper right after Kylo did a mind probe to her.
If you observe even closely, she even swings the light saber very similar to how he does it before battle, and was able to grab Anakin's light saber with the force (just like how Kylo used the force to grab/choke a First Order general). The abilities that she learned didn't come out of thin air; she LEARNED all of it through Kylo. But why?
She is his equal. In the novel, he sensed something intriguing about her that he couldn't explain. This is one of the reasons why Rey won; because he DID NOT want to hurt her. Not because she overpower him.
The novel even explained that he could have easily killed her, especially during the cliff scene where he could have easily pushed her off, but he did not.
It's an interesting read, especially reading how Kylo became instantly weak and conflicted after killing his father.
because movie
I think it's actually pretty simple as Kensei said. If Kylo was fresh and not been shot by a Bowcaster that would have killed most people, even some Jedi or Sith, there would have been no contest. I do think Finn shouldn't have lasted more than a second against Kylo either. Either Finn has some connection to the Force, or in this case, this was just written in. Rey, on the other hand, is a different story. I think we all pretty much know that Rey is Luke's daughter. When Kylo was looking around in Rey's mind for the into, he inadvertently broke the wall that was put in place to disconnect Rey from the Force, in order to protect her.
Something else people forget is despite the fact that Kylo just killed his father, you don't think that affected him in any way negatively? He was still dealing with that, but even if you just ignore that, Kylo Ren was already gravely injured before the fight. Only his hatred and his connection to the Force sustained him. Had he not been injured, even with Rey's unlocked Force abilities, she was no match for him. Remember, Ren is bleeding the entire time he's fighting, thereby getting weaker and weaker, whilst Rey is reminded of her connection to the Force and then the only reason she beat Ren is because she tapped into the Force and she went a little dark side on Ren. Just look at the emotion of her face and ferocity of her attacks. The truth is, the dark side is stronger temporarily if you use it sparingly. If you use it long term, it starts destroying your body.
If you look at most of the lightsaber fights when it's Jedi vs Sith and when the Jedi gains the advantage, what happens just prior to that. They get angry. Look at Luke fighting Vader in RotJ. He gave into the dark side briefly, but stopped, just short of killing Vader. When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were fighting Maul and Qui-Gon was killed. Obi-wan went all Darkside on Maul and didn't stop. Then Anakin fighting Dooku at the beginning of RotS, dark side energy allowed Anakin to dominate Dooku. The only exception is when Yoda fights, but come on, Yoda is not just a master of the light side, he's a Grandmaster. Then Kylo and Rey. When Kylo asked him to join her, she declined, but got angry and again, the dark side aided her.
Now, the real question is, what will happen in TLJ. It appears that Kylo Ren will probably be a Darth now and you can actually see the dark side yellow eyes in one brief scene. Yes, in another, his eyes are brown, but it's probably early on in the movie and also they don't get the full red eyes permanently until they've been going dark side for a while. It will be interesting to see who wins and loses in TLJ because it appears as though Luke goes dark. I thought he was going to become a Grey Jedi, but after hearing Mark Hamil's response in several interviews including the Star Wars Celebration Panel this year (2017), he seemed quite upset how Luke is portrayed and hinted that Luke goes dark, but doesn't come back. Maybe that's just a ploy to confuse fans to make us think that, but Kathleen Kenedy interrupted Mark Hamil at the celebration and seemed to try to be doing some damage control and for what Mark Hamil said.
Sithtiger Star wars accidently Leaked a part of the episode 8 script but i don't know if its true because In the script, Luke skywalker Was so skilled with the force, he could stop death. He reincarnated Anakin skywalker But Failed when The reincarnated Version was a girl. So he raised her a few years then left her in a planet. He then Tried to find her but couldnt because she was Taken and sold. he went to a Planet To Try to sence her But she came to him. i hope This is fake but This is a good reason why she was so skilled with the force.
This has to be fake. I mean come on. So They is a female version of Anakin?! That makes no sense at all. Speaking of that leak. Now the other part with him leaving Rey and then trying to find her is more plausible, but still hard to swallow for me.
Soviet Russia You are faking news
If they turn Luke into a Bad Guy I am gunna be sooopp pissed off!
Sithtiger Rey was born by two people on Deathsticks and they sold her for drug money and died short after.
Excellent video Stupendous. Well done.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
*****
The blades can be as much as 1.5 metres in some models. Not sure if there are even longer ones out there.
I liked this fight, both of them. and first time watching, I told my brother that, "damn he just tanked that Crossbow blaster!!! and is still fighting!"
Topic question: What if Kylo beat Rey during there lightsaber duel?
She would get a new arm, go away train and come back to beat him.
Jacqueline Blackwell We don't know yet. We have to wait until about 2019 before we can do any sequel trilogy what ifs.
He would have brought her to smoke so they can turn her to the dark side.
Jacqueline Blackwell Rey would have turned to the dark side, strapped herself into some black, skin tight leather, traded her staff in for a duel sided saber and would become the hottest thing since leia in her slave attire
Jacqueline Blackwell would be better after the sequels come out
Is she thelegend27?
the real reason kylo lost was because he was using part of the force to maintain his hair looking fabulous
The best explanation so far
this was actually really good. I was kinda confused on how Rey won, considering she was 'just a scavenger' (or is she), and she was up against a highly trained fighter, led by the the ferocious power of the dark side. Now I think about it, it was actually an even match taking into consideration everything you've said.
I agree with everything you said. Rey isn't that amazing like many think. Now if she becomes more powerful than Luke, I'm done with this. Yeah, Luke is only amazing mainly in the EU, but Episode VIII should show how he grew from Episodes IV-VI and after that. It is completely unrealistic if they make Rey "better" than Luke has ever been...
I feel you, I too really hate stories where the student eventually surpasses the teacher. I mean Luke becoming stronger than Obi-Wan and being able to defeat Vader. It´s good that they fixed it in the EU by explaining that they´ve gotten older and their skills deteriorated, but they didn´t fix Vader surpassing his teacher. This bullshit also drove me nuts in Dragon Ball, what business has Goku being stronger than Roshi? Now he is a saiyan, great explanation. Not! Oh and don´t get me started on Snake beating the Big Boss. What BS was this? A gaming series ruined by pandering to mens rights activists and now the feminists want to do the same to Star Wars.
Exactly
Random Uploader
I am so happy to find someone who understands me, so many people say bullshit like that it is natural that the student surpasses the teacher or that this is normal plot progression and they are doing it for years in Star Wars. I think the rule of two was only established as part of the lore to serve a hidden agenda. They´re attacking old people! They have no respect, not a single shred! You know who started it? Bruce fucking Lee! He surpassed all of his martial arts teachers, what a respectless asshole he was and from then on Hollywood came on board. You might think that makes no sense, because the film industry is controlled by jews and judaism is older than christianity and automatically the teacher, so why would they plant ideas like that in the heads of people? It is because they are not jews, they are secretely christians who disrespect the old teachers, who want to overthrow them! They are young people rights activists, younginists and they are sending out their minions to rig the election. Yeah the election is rigged, they want the younginists leader as president and we can do notthing against it, the whole world will suffer under president JILL STEIN!!!!!!!!!!!
Kylo is Luke's best student.Rey heared about the force 1 min ago and she obliterated Kylo.This movie is toxic feminazi shit.
This is just a movie.They made Rey a Mary Sue and they made all men,weak stupid idiots who lose to Rey cause they are sexists.
When you think of Darth Vader do you think of him like Anakin or with his suit?
Usually instinctively in the suit although he is of course Darth Vader from the moment Sidious deemed him so.
Thank you for the answer
Karen Edwards rip
with suit
Ozzy Anakin walking into the jedi temple
Because plot armour.
Safe Space armor
Exactly.
You're actually right. A lot of what's said in this video just seems like a huge retcon to appease the fans, Kylo is probably the 3rd most powerful force user around at the moment, and Rey didn't know the force existed until halfway into the movie.
The difference between good and bad writing is showing vs telling. The fact that people even need a 10m video explanation to supplement the movie shows that there was a huge flaw in writing.
Because Disney wanna make another feminist icon.
Actually, it was pretty obvious in the movie, idk why you can't get it by just watching. Kylo pauses in the fight twice to try and quell his wounds throbbing. In addition, as stated, he had wanted Rey to join him from the start. I don't understand any of the backlashes of this film. It was good.
I love this breakdown. It neatly summarizes everything I was thinking about this fight, and what makes it so entertaining and interesting to watch. They are BOTH (Kylo and Rey) working with significant handicaps. Also worth noting is that Rey had thrown Ren off during his interrogation of her, making her sort of a wildcard to him. He's confused, bereaved at his own actions, physically injured-- couple that with the fact that he really doesn't want to kill Rey. Meanwhile Rey is full of fire and determination and is relatively less impaired. Makes them a somewhat even match, and luck comes out on Rey's side enough for her to get away. This fight also shows some of the real brutality that comes with combat like this. It's not pretty. It's not a dance. These people are hurting and trying to survive, and this scene excels in showing that. Thanks again for all the research and thought put into this!
Now, if Ren and Rey fight in Episode VIII and Rey loses (which I predict), how will the fans react? Will they see it as Ren finally being the badass darkside user they wanted? Or, will they criticize it for being inconsistent? Given the Star Wars Fanbase's tendency to be unpleasable, I'm leaning more toward the latter.
They'll bash it because the good guy lost in ESB and they'll call the whole movie a reskin of ESB just because of that. And if she wins they'll just keep calling her a Mary Sue
Oh yeah, the "this is an ESB remake" reaction. How could I forget...
And they'll just completely ignore that Anakin vs. Dooku in AotC was pretty much a total reskin of the duel in ESB
and a terrible one at that.
Thats your own opinion my friend.
not to mention he was on offensive almost the whole time, but he doesn't really have ANY defensive skill because he wasn't worried about being on the defensive.
People saying Rey was a Mary Sue. Meanwhile Anakin was literally the chosen one
Even then, the first duel we see Anakin in he gets his hand cut off and he had training for close to 10 years prior, they rematch in ep III and Anakin has improved which makes sense but he was held in such high esteem but even he struggled at points when he could've become space jesus that i believe is why so many people detest Rey who as far as we know has no training and fighting a trained fighter and winning just sounds silly to me
Anakin is well written and has trained. His only flaw is that George made him whiny and made his lines garbage.
Rey has random powers that let her escape or defeat anything. She doesn't even use em herself, it just HAPPENS.
In short, Anakin was trained in the ways of dueling (and even had limbs cut off and many losses), and Rey was not, therefore she is a mary sue to many people.
That makes Rey even more a mary sue. Anakin was atleast the chosen and still had to train.. Rey is a nobody and if shes not from the skywalker linage what she did makes it even more ridiculous.
But anakin had clear flaws. She is literally the perfect character that can do anything. That is shit writing if you ask me.
NoLife Man if she was so perfect she wouldn't have gotten captured in the first place.
I think that Rey also did something that you mentioned in another video, with Obi-Wan. During the duel, shortly after she was being beaten down, Kylo asked her to let him teach her. In that moment, Rey shut her eyes and concentrated. I think that she gave herself over to the will of the force, just as Obi-Wan did against General Grievous.
What if Yoda helped the Rebellion
Gerry McWilliam yes!
He and Obi-Wan would have lied about the exhaust port because they had a different "point of view."
Since they are VIPs they would only put a target on the movement much earlier and they would be hunted down by Vader and Sidious personally and be destroyed. Yoda and Obi-Wan had nothing to offer the rebels.
Because she's a Mary Sue. Suddenly able to out force-pull someone who clearly shows major mastery in kinetic force abilities. Kylo took a powerful shot. Great. He's armored and trained, and he slammed Rei into a tree, knocking her out. Also, Ren was able to suddenly stop a blasterbolt in the beginning of the movie with no warning. He should easily have been able to kill her. I'm sorry, but while 7 was better than 1 2 and 3, it still was poor writing. The strengths of this movie was in the acting, effects, soundtrack, and humor (a little too much humor, if you ask me.)
And that's how I know you didn't watch the video.
Rebel Riot She's that much of a Mary Sue, in the beginning of the fight Ren had the advantage and was throwing her around she didn't start winning the battle until she gave herself to the force only then did she defeat Kylo Ren.
How was it better than episode 3? 7 was just a giant rehash of episode 4.
100% agreed Rebel Riot. This fight will probably always bug me unless they explain her sudden power in Episode 8. And even then it's a stretch..
Dude all the evidence was in the video which you completely ignored. .
Rey obviously appeared in the movie to be a sort of natural or savant with the force and seemed to take to its use either without realizing it or on instinct... that combined with Kylo Ren being a mental, emotional and physical mess and that fight did feel plausible.
Something that bothered me before though is that when it came to moments like her meditation while fighting Kylo... that can't be instinctual. She has to have learned about that, somewhere.
I'm wondering if that's something she'd have heard of in stories, growing up. Similarly, it's clear she'd heard of Jedi Mind Tricks to get her way out of that questioning room.
Pfft! Anaken Skywalker was the embodiment of force potential and even he didn't run around mind tricking people as soon as he learned about The Force. I like Rey but she picked up on The Force too quickly.
^Don't deflect. It's not about being a "natural". Even the most gifted force sensitives have to work for years upons years to gain the abilities that Rey just picked up on the fly in 5 minutes. It cheapens what it means to be a Jedi if she doesn't even need to train. That just makes her a Mary Sue. Bad writing.
There's a lot we don't know about Rey. Like a lot of movies these days this one was made to set up other movies, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she had some Jedi training. Or became obsessed with them when whoever was in her vision left her. Sounded like Ben Kenobi to me in the echo that called out her name right after, that's just me, but I digress. Point being we don't know a lot. Like... ANYTHING yet. Which is stupid but that's what we get in movies these days and they could come up with a million different reasons why Rey would be that talented in the force.
Quintillion your comment regarding natural talent compared to discipline in the force is like, in DnD or Pathfinder (but Pathfinder specifically), comparing a Wizard to a Sorcerer. Wizards practice and discipline themselves to be better with magic, Sorcerers are almost in reverse, disciplining themselves to control and refine magic rather than be better with it. Wizards STUDY magic, Sorcerers ARE magic.
This is almost why the theory about Rey being a Wound in the force makes sense, because from what has been gathered, Wounds in the force collect power and abilities by forming links and bonds, and especially so when taking a life. This is why Darth Nihilus and Meetra Surik were so powerful. in a way, they were Sorcerers in a galaxy of Wizards.
I think there's one other part that needs consideration - Rey's trust and self-control.
We start off the film seeing that she lives a pretty basic life. But she does what she needs to in order to get by. We see her keeping a tally of days past and we eventually learn how she is waiting for her family to come back for her. But she still does her daily tasks and remains focussed on the here and now.
Compare this to what Yoda chastises Luke for in Empire Strikes Back. Like spent too much time with his head in the clouds, dreaming about adventure, instead of focussing on where he was and what he was doing. It was something Luke had to get over and learn, in order to centre himself and grasp his true potential. But it would seem Rey already had that sort of attitude in her life.
Going back to the OT and their view of the Force, self-belief would appear to be more important than anything else. Luke destroying the Death Star was all about him trusting his instincts. Luke failing to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp was all about him not believing it could be done. This was a core component of the story.
The same became true of Rey as The Fore Awakens went on. She slowly began to believe in herself and this is what gave her strength. Its clear in that moment when Kylo has her on the edge of the precipice that she finally gives herself over to the Force. She calms herself and just trusts. Its now similar to what we see in Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One. "I fear nothing, as all is as the Force wills it." Rey learns to trust her instincts at exactly the moment Kylo is questioning his.
The Stupendeous Wave:
Kylo is injured both mentally and physically. What you do not mention is this - Snoke has ORDERED him to bring Rey to him, ALIVE! Thus Kylo cannot kill her because he obeys Snoke above all else. Second of all explaining the fight by analysing saber forms is not very good, because from what we know, the forms are not cannon - at least, not yet. Another factor, Kylo did participate in the massacre of Luke's Jedi, and it is even confirmed by Pablo Hidalgo and the visual dictionary, that "The lightsaber skills of Kylo Ren are, ironically responsible for that elegant weapon and its combat forms remaining unknown to the galaxy at large" and "it was his deadly lightsaber skills that prevented the return of Jedi Order", so I would wagger that he is skilled in the dueling, and not just an amateur - his choice of weapon is crossguard after all. When it comes to Finn, he wants to make Finn bleed and suffer, he wants to make him pay, thus he carries on with the fight but gets cocky, due to aforementioned factors and gets hit. After the hit, he immediately finishes Finn off. When it comes to Rey, she is loosing the fight to the point where they stand over the chasm that opens when planet begins to rip itself apart. What Kylo does is wait for Rey to make up her mind, because as I mentioned, he cannot kill her and wants her to surrender (there is also a theory why he is waiting, but I do not want to delve into Reylo here....). What happens to Rey is that she lets the Force in. This is what Kylo is not expecting at all and thus what Rey is doing is going all frenzy on him, due to being taken over by the power of the Force. This is exactly what happens when Kanan is fighting Maul after he gets blinded. He cannot see Maul, but allows the Force in and allows it to guide him, thus he blocks all Maul's strikes and knocks him off the temple. From what we have seen, Rey appears to be incredibly gifted with the Force, thus when she "allows it in", she is powered up, kinda like when you pick up a power boost in videogame - the Force is guiding her. When this happens, Kylo is completely caught off guard and gets his robe slashed and foot cut - the rest is history.
While the video is well put together, these are factors you should take in and not leave out key details like Snoke ORDERING Ren to bring Rey to him, because this is what many people who are complaining about this duel are forgetting about and not paying attention to the working of the Force. Also another example of another "Mary Suenes": You know why Yoda can fight as well as he can in his age? He allows the Force to guide him.
Dominik Kulcsár bravo my friend I totally agree
Dominik Kulcsár impressed I Am.
Definitely my favorite Star Wars story teller on UA-cam! Keep it up Stupendous love the videos.
Thanks!
Until they explain in details why Rey can use the force so good she's still a lazy written character
She only used a mind trick. I doubt they're that hard if you're force sensitive. Plus, she's obviously involved with some kind of early Jedi training, we just don't know what that means yet
Dark Matter It is pretty fucking hard, you need a lot of training for that she also used the Force to grab the Ligthsaber, Force users have to train years to master some of the simplest force uses, that's why I said until they explain she's a bad written character
Dark Matter by all sources it seems to be one of the more difficult tricks to master, which is why we only ever saw a few people do it, those people being extremely powerful Jedi with training. She also does a lot of other things that are awfully convenient. Like flying the millennium falcon like an ace despite never flying anything prior. Or fixing the ships hyperdrive, something that Han Solo himself was having trouble with. Becoming an ace shot with a blaster exactly twenty minutes after getting her first one. Bottom line is: they got some explaining to do about Rey's skills in episode 8, if they want people to take her character seriously.
FearingVirus Ok I'm going to be fair, Rey said in the movie she had experience flying other ships, also she struggled with the blaster at the beginning and let's not forget Luke also was pretty good with the blaster in New Hope without training, she's a scavenger I think it's fair She can fix things like little Anakin Skywalker
true both Luke and Anakin had experience flying things while Rey seems to have none. Also, i will only accept Rey being an ace pilot if she's a Skywalker since being ace pilots is in their blood
Best breakdown. Now i can fully enjoy the fight scene for what it is.
Comments like this gives me hope for the fan base :)
Wow great video!
You're the best Stupendous Wave!!
Thanks!
OMG IM SO JELLOUS YIOU GOTT SEMPAI TO REPLY
Lol I know right
Being skilled with a staff should be irrelevant to lightsaber combat. The plasma blade of the lightsaber is weightless and would be very awkward for a non-force sensitive person to use and someone who is force sensitive needs extensive training to use the blade effectively.
thank you.
Actually lightsaber are pretty heavy. That's why most Yes I and sith use two hands. Only some of the most powerful can wield a lightsaber with one hand.
MysteryMeat 121 It's the same like normal sword fights in principal. Two hands give you more power in your hits, plus it is a lot easier to keep your body balanced, making it generally stronger than two swords. The only cases two weapons are useful in are: fighting multiple enemies at once, being physically strong enough to keep up with one-sworded enemies using only one hand, or fighting against a distracted enemy, where the actual power of the strike doesnt matter (it's still a laser sword).
Trajan Grevious wasn’t force sensitive and used four lightsabers effectively. Pre Vizla wasn’t a force sensitive and used one just fine.
how do you know that? ever held a lightsaber? you know light doesn't end at some specific point, right?
so maybe the "light" (more likely some kind of plasma) emmited by a kyber crystal is in fact heavy?
She has the same form as her grandfather.....Darth Sidious!
vashstpd
oh my god
Sidious flowed between all 7 forms. Rey doesn't use a lightsaber form.
True, but some of the moves she used was used by Sidious.
Your explanation is basically confirmed by Snoke in The Last Jedi. “And look at you, the deed split your spirit to the bone. You’re unbalanced! Bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber, you failed!” - Supreme Leader Snoke You were spot on with this analysis. Great video! :)
If Kylo Rens blade is dealing much more damage beacause of the broken kyber crystal, then why don't all light saber users "break" their crystal to get a better blade?
Vällygs it's more likely he either has an ancient sith artifact lightsaber, unrefined but powerful, or he has a barab ore refining crystal alongside his kyber crystal that causes his blade to burn and crackle
David Moriarty-Schieven But somehow the manufacturer of the blade hat to break it and if it's really as strong as said it would definetly be worth the effort to find a way to do it
Probably because the very act of having that crystal in a lightsaber is extremely dangerous to the wielder as well as the target.
Because it makes the blade unstable
What makes you think it is broken? I think it is much more likely that it is an ancient artifact given to Kylo Ren by snoke, possibly one of the first lightsabers constructed by the Sith - it isn't broken, the mechanism hasn't refined yet.
I really like that the films have gone back to the more life-like styled fight scenes like in Empire, but I still have yet to see a truly great sword fight from a modern movie/anime/cartoon/etc. Everything just seems so choreographed. My favorite has and always will be the opening fight from the Duelist. I wish this fight would've been more like that
You should check out the Kylo Ren video put out by Blindwave. The use of the lightsabers and force in that video is so creative and interesting to watch.
and finally, the reason why Kylo's head wasn't chopped of when he got a direct hit is because he use force to "shield" the saber.
Just like that female jedi master who stop Darth Maul's saber stab with her bare hand.
You mean Darth Malgus? Pfft don't compare that nobody to the true master of the sith. HAIL EMPEROR MALGUS!
Ashbringer36 yeah, Malgus.
I'm not a big fan of Malgus,. I'm more of a Darth Marr guy.
He was hit with Chewie’s blaster, it’s honestly shocking that he even got up from that thing
you sound like Mordecai from The Regular Show
agreed me dude
Wtf i can’t unhear this now
Meh
"Margaret, you look stunning." *flexes pecs*
Crixus mindblown
Rey might be untrained with a lightsaber, but she actually has the right idea when attacking, IMHO, by opening with thrust attacks instead of wide swings. And while she does use circular attacks, she almost never overdo them. By that I mean, she almost never telegraph them, except maybe twice, one being the overhead strike before the front kick that sends Kylo to the ground, just before the final assault. But more interestingly, she has some pretty good Shii-Cho sequences. Her guard at the beginning of the fight is legit (as is Finn's for that matter), and the sequence when they are on the narrow path (after the scene with Poe and before Rey jumps out of the path), her mostly defensive moves are typical of Form I. So, while she's certainly not trained with a lightsaber, she either conveniently, or instinctively, used Shii-Cho as a go to form. And seeing how she's able to handle herself with her staff, I'd say that it's a learned skill, not an inherited one. She might be naturally strong with the Force, and it doesn't violate the lore in the slightest, but I do think that her skill as a melee fighter is genuine.
However, I don't think that, at this point, she's stronger than Kylo. As you pointed out, he was physically and mentally weakened but even then, he was able to beat Finn quite easily, if not for a wound that hurt his pride more than anything, and could have been avoided if he was more focused. I actually would put Rey and Finn roughly at the same level of abilities when it comes to melee combat, the difference being that while Rey's nimbleness and tendency of using the terrain at her advantage, like cutting tree branches to hinder Kylo's progression, coupled with her naturally faster style of combat, seems to be the perfect foil to Kylo's almost tank-like approach to combat (even more so than Vader's, if you think about it), Finn's overreliance on wide, wild swings and head-on approach played straight into Kylo's main advantage. To me, it's akin to a tank taking an even bigger tank head-on and hoping for the best. But one thing is for sure, this was certainly not Kylo Ren at his best. The dude is able to stop a blaster bolt mid-air, have a conversation for several minutes while still holding the damn thing in the air. Now there have been tons of Force Users described as being able to use Tutaminis (the ability to absorbe/stop energy, like blaster bolts, ligthsabers, etc...), but I don't recall seeing once something akin to what Kylo did there. He is certainly not a pushover.
Also, another thing that I've noticed but failed to mention: Rey's clothes are for a desertic, hot planet. They're fighting in the snow. No matter what we think of her abilities, this is pretty damn impressive.
Neldolas that'd be more a combination of soresu and makashi rather than shii-cho.
makashi is Dooku's form, a galaxy known expert duelist in his day and very similar to a rapier.
soresu is Obi-Wan Kenobi. very defensive, and circular. like weapons training in Aikido
A thrust attack is literally the easiest thing to parry, ever. It's called a sidestep, FFS. Then one upswing and boom, no arms. Especially since she was basically charging him and leaving herself wide open. It was just bad script writing and bad choreography.
Kylo still should have won.
SpiceCat then he would literally be a God. Like, come on, he had everything against him and could still fight.
Kylo sucks. Rey is hot
tccdo Ur mom sucks
tccdo “Rey is hot” nigga where? I don’t see it
Vader was practically a God next to Luke. That's a part of what made their conflict so interesting. How much would Empire have sucked, had Luke not been handed his ass by Vader?
Smokes words explain why he lost.
Kylo: “I killed Han Solo, when the time came, I didn’t hesitate”
Spoke: “Yet the deed split your spirit to the bone, you were unbalanced! Bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber, you failed!”
Man people in this comment section are going to war and fighting like usual. "Rey is a Mary Sue." (Dumb word anyway.) "TFA sucks." "Blah blah blah Star Wars is ruined." Damn Star Wars fans hate Star Wars more than anyone else. Is it so hard to sit back and enjoy a movie even if it's similar has problems. But stop talking about all this Mary Sue (Dumb word) bullshit. Talk about how great this video is. I don't know if you'll see my comment but fantastic video man! You never dissapoint. But I have a video suggestion. My video Suggestion Is. "What would happen if Padme didn't die but Anakin Skywalker still became Darth Vader." Like in his suit. Would it be possible she could turn Vader into Anakin or something. Just a idea.
If the rest of the movie had not shown Rey to be such a Mary Sue I might have accepted this. I think most of the movie was just poorly done and now we are grasping at straws to justify it.
In what ways was she a Mary Sue though? Many things in film and outside material has stated various reason Rey and Finn knew the things they did.
I agree. The fight itself is still goofy and illogical but what makes it worse is that Rey can do everything and anything in the film, despite having no logical reason. The only thing she should be good at is fixing things and working with machines, just like Luke was only good at flying because of his T-16 and bullseying womp rats, a feat that would be useful later on.
Gabe Rivera We both know this won't convince either side they were wrong. If you feel she isn't, then nothing I say will change your stance. My issue is how she is perfect at everything, and when something she has no experience with, like flying or the force, she not only mysteriously learns it but masters it. I feel combing through every bit of supplemental content on Rey just to make excuses isn't on us, and she was a poorly made character if you need to do it to justify her actions. I hope I am proven wrong and something happens in the upcoming movies to change my mind, like the reincarnation theory being true, then I can understand it, but until then, she is a Mary Sue to me.
The movie was well received, so no, it wasn't poorly done
What ive been saying the whole time, finally someone who sees beyond the "kylo ren" just sucks opinion..... couldnt agree more
Does no-one find Rey's character absolute bullshit? For a poor, lonely, hungry scavenger on a desert planet she's a better pilot than Tie fighter pilots who have trained their entire lives, she knows everything about tech, somehow matches Ren who was trained by Luke and trained his entire life in a lightsaber duel, and of course somehow does jedi mind tricks without knowing the force existed a few hours earlier and never seen it been done before. Luke didn't even use a saber properly till ESB and didn't do mind tricks till ROTJ (and he's one of the most powerful jedi ever)
1. Luke didn't know what the Force was at the beginning of A New Hope, and by the end, he used it to destroy the Death Star.
2. Rey did know the Force existed, because she knew about Luke. She said in one scene on Jakku, "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a myth!"
Luke using the force to help him concentrate (with Obi Wan guidingg him) to shoot is nothing compared to Rey being able to manipulate the force with jedi mind tricks and besting an experienced duelist. Exactly she thought he was a myth! how the fuck does that mean she'd know how to pull off jedi mind tricks with no guidance whatsoever? Luke saw Kenobi do that trick and had him to help him when he was one with the force.
You're all looking for subtext that isn't there.
Is that a bad thing?
SuperNils666 maybe she had voices in her head about using the force? , everything will be explained in The last jedi
Very good analysis, Stupendous Wave.
Pablo The Penguin Millions upon millions (the vast majority) of Star Wars fans completely disagree with you. And the abominations to the SW saga were Episodes I and II. Those movies were a complete joke. And the vast majority of SW fans feel that way.
Pablo The Penguin Serious about what?
I loved them all. Episode 1 and 2 were NOT a complete joke. Yeah, Jar Jar was fucking annoying, but rumour has it, it was whinging fans that may have stopped him from being a Sith Lord in disguise. The prequels may have been better still.
great effort but..... no matter how tired or injured Kylo Ren was. if he could still stand and draw his light saber in anger there is no reason he would loose to someone who had seen a light saber for the first time that day. The only reason he would loose is plot armour for Ray. Fighting thugs and thieves with a staff is hardly on the same level as fighting murderous warriors with light sabers. Either plot armour or it means she is the most powerful of all known warriors and force users if she could beat a student of Snoke and Luke Skywalker after zero training and learning of the force just hours prior.
Lose*
diddy47 honestly, that makes more sense than Anything else. But we can’t use this explanation because....it makes it less fun Ig.
Wasn't just tired and injured, but mismatched styles and Rey trusting in the Force. She was on the backfoot until she trusted in the Force.
@diddy47 Yeah he could only have one arm left and no legs and have a heart attack but he still can't lose... Hours prior? really? dude she has known about the force since she was a kid like come on basic shit
Yeah, that was a complete load. Hopefully Ren will get this revenge in the next film.
Skyrogue19 unlikely, i want it but, its disney, something might happen but the main character will win in the end
Didn't Adam Driver say that VIII will remind ESB in tone? I think that implies that it's gonna be darker, and therefore the bad guys may win for the time being.
That's what he said. Adam Driver said that the tone of 8 will be different from FA in a similar way that Empire Strikes Back was different from A New Hope. He even makes this clarification after that statement you brought up.
Taking the direct shot from Chewies crossbow and getting up and running after that was totally a show of strength.
It also appears Rey calms and allows the force to guide her right before her final strike.
Let's hope that wasn't calm, would be both cool and a chance to redeem her from her Mary Sue status if she's been brushed by the Dark Side
Ashbringer36 Idiot.
No no, I think Rey was channeling the dark side.
In the book version, isn't Snoke talking to her when she stands above Kylo Ren? Telling her to kill him, to go to the dark side.
Kevin Z I haven't read the book, and I haven't been able to afford to go to the movie.
The movie implies that she brushed with the Dark Side.
The book flat out says that Snoke tried to contact her and tempt her with the Dark Side.
I think it would be really cool if Rey was really tempted with the Dark Side. Like REALLY tempted.
Then Kylo goes from Dark to Light. And Rey goes from Light to Dark.
Now THAT would be an awesome trilogy.
Because if rey lost feminists would get triggered
Brice De Nice Agreed
Cause feminism! That's right because it always is.
Hilarious though that since she won, all the MRA's are triggered.
From a real life sword combat perspective, they both are awful at sword fighting and wouldn't have lasted a few seconds in real sword combat, though Kylo is slightly better than Rey considering how many of Rey's attacks exposes her chest and most of her body, something that can be easily taken advantage of but Kylo is is simply terrible at sword fighting to do so
Except real sword fight doesn't take into consideration the fact that they can predict each others movement through the force...can push each other with there mind and that a light saber is almost weightless.
Plus it's fucking fiction, who cares about realism in fiction...
OK, but from that perspective almost none of the lightsaber fights have been any good. The ones in the original trilogy were mostly fine, and Dooku actually had a couple of decent moves, but anything involving Palpatine or Yoda was laughable. The guy killed three Jedi Council masters in a few seconds but left himself open with every attack!
No One Can answer this question How did Rey pull the light-saber past Kylo?? She out matched a well trained force user that just threw her into a tree and Kylo can not force grab the saber he was closest to?? I don't want to hear the bullshit excuse that the saber has a mind of its own and knew because it has a brain with AI and whatever, who its real master was.
I've always wondered, do the filmmakers ever consider the different lightsaber forms, like do they talk to their stunt specialists and actors and tell them which form the character is using, or is it that the forms are based off of real life martial arts that just so happen to correspond and people make the connections that way...
I'm fairly sure the lightsaber forms are a complete unknown to the filmmakers. It's only the story group, the canon masters, that take them into account at all. I personally wish the forms would be given more attention.
Personally i find that the Lightsaber Forms are easily noticed in the films, especially when Obi Wan and Anakin fight, also Sidious and Windus forms are noticable if you look closely.
Ilkka Pättikangas kotor 2 ftw.
The lightsaber styles they use in the films are based off their personality and other factors. Due to the variety of lightsaber forms that exist, it usually isn't difficult for people who know about them to put the facts together. It's mostly for the more hardcore Star Wars fans. Lightsaber forms are mostly mentioned in comics, video games, novels, and the television shows.We will rarely have a reference in the movie.
Well, if lightsaber forms ARE considered in the movies, then Rey is 100% confirmed to be Palpatine's descendant. Because the best way to describe her fighting style would be ''Imagine if Palpatine was a bit tipsy and got into a fight, and was angrier than usual''.
I thought Kylo Ren underestimated Rey's strength allowing her to beat him
oh believe me dude, as a pro boxer I asure you that even a stab wound would make me lose agains't an 80 years old grandpa, or a fit young girl. People just don't seem to understan how mortal wounds diminish your skills.
The problem is HER skills. She closes her eyes for 5 seconds and becomes a Master Jedi.
PubliusAfricanus no, she's clumsy, it's her opponent who it's almost fainted... yes, her ability to use the force was rushed... almost as when Luke used the force to shot the death star. I asure you she would have lost to kylo if he wasn't fucking shot. I'm amazed how you people underestimate pain and injuries... and yes, Kylo could use the Force to diminish pain, so basically he changed pain from a fucking bowcaster (like a shotgun) for a stab wound. Try to fight a 17 years old girl with a stab wound in the gut or the liver.
PubliusAfricanus do u even force bro
histatimaniples 1. He was toying with Finn
2. The fucking force
very very good! I also saw this as the Force awakening in Rey. throughout the entire movie Rey, Finn, and others are able to do things that they wouldn't have been able to do before.
What did Finn do that was impossible? He was the bumbling sidekick throughout the entire film
Ashbringer36 you mean, besides fight Kylo Ren and escape the First Order?
Son of T'Chaka you call that a fight? Kylo was fucking toying with him it was more a one sided crush with Kylo lengthening it for his own enjoyment. As for escaping the first order, A didn't do it alone, most of the badass shit was done by Poe and 2 that sequence was ridden with cringe worthy bad jokes made at the expense of the heroes. Still not even close to the person who was supposed to be Reys co-star rather then bumbling sidekick
Ashbringer36 Kylo had been trained since adolescence to wield a light saber. Finn had used it once before this and still got a hit on him. Toying or not Finn was impressive for having no training no training whatsoever.
Al Smith having no training with a lightsaber.... Ahem, who else in this story has never touched a lightsaber before? I believe her name stars with R and has powers she shouldn't have like telekenisis and force persuade.
Man I got to say, I love your videos. You analyze and explain everything so well, things that didn't make sense to me before are now far more understandable. Keep up the good work mate!!! 👍