People will always try to justify snap on by saying they feel better or they like them more. The same way people justify buying a $1500 kirby vacuum cleaner or a Harley. Its a status symbol pushed by talented salesman with easy credit. Admitting that anything else is just as good or better would mean admitting they made a mistake.
Most of my tools came off the Snap On truck, so I am used to using them. I’ve been using the Icon and Koken ratchets for a while to test them, and I get frustrated sometimes. Mostly because the switches aren’t very good. Not saying this is enough of a reason to spend the extra coin, but I don’t regret doing it.
Winner winner chicken dinner. I own a pile of snap on, I owned a Kirby and I’ve owned two Harley’s. I bought my Kirby for 1/3 msrp cash. Then proceeded to leave it to my ex wife, she still uses it 25 years later. I bought a 2008 street glide traded it for a 2011, then it was totaled, I got more for it from my insurance company than I paid for it. Probably only cost me $1000 for 3 years of riding. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s not worth the money. You keep buying harbor freight, Hoovers and Kawasakis, it’s all good. I’m not saying those are bad, it’s just not the same.
Ah, the tired old "name brands are only for status" argument. I bought my classic 911 because I was blown away at the driving experience. If someone wants to think that I drive it as a status symbol that's on them. There are plenty of other cars that are faster, more comfortable, safer, etc., but there is no other car that will give the same experience as my old 911. I love that little thing. As far as admitting things, do you think that the anti established brands people just might have certain things that THEY don't want to admit?
@@overbuiltlimited You're asking them questions they aren't prepared to answer The thing I've found with the "anti-established" crowd, just the same as it is with the "Die-Hard Loyalist" crowd, is that they are typically lacking in any and all nuance. "Worth" of these tools, and really any tool anywhere, is more or less subjective to most people.
Taking apart a ratchet reminds me of my job with the Sears Hardware department MANY years ago, before they went completely to shit. Yes, we could replace your ratchet if it broke or didn't work right. Free. No questions asked. But the old timers who really knew better would ask for a rebuild of their old one, and for a very short time when I worked there, they were still doing those rebuild kits. The guts of the old ratchets were just so much more superior.
which is so crazy considering we can cnc parts so easy now days. Like it makes no sense why we cant get quality for much cheaper but that is where icon is stepping in. With how young they are its only gonna get better with time because when you have a 6 yr old brand competeing with like a 100 yr old brand it shouldnt be a competition but i think withn the next 5 years icon will be the same quality for way way cheaper. Its sad we dont have american companies trying to do what chinese companies are but i guess you cant relly beat slave labor.
I am still using my craftsman ratchets I bought back in 70s, much better than even the couple of snapons I have. This modern day stuff is built too cheaply to last a lifetime
What’s funny is that every one of you are wrong. The teeth can be as deeply machined as you want them to be. The only thing limiting machining depth is how thick/strong you want the teeth at the apex. The deeper you machine the teeth, the narrower they become at the apex and as a result - the weaker they become.
I was going to make the same comment. The Icon has 18 more teeth than the Snap-on and there is only so much space to cut grooves on the surface. So it would be logical that more teeth on the same surface means they have to be smaller. Also the Pall on the Icon has 1 more tooth holding as opposed to the Snap-on. So I would call that a wash.
This reminds me of the 'fake fluke Meter' thing that happened years ago. The short story goes a bit like this. Some big online electronics hobbyist forum/club commissioned a foreign electronics manufacturer to make a custom multimeter for them. Fluke saw them and then tried to sue them for copyright infringement since it was basically identical to one of their high-dollar units. The foreign manufacturer got pulled in to explain things and said that yes it's basically a Fluke meter we did some minor changes to in order to get around the copyright issue. Fluke then had a fit about it because they admitted that it was a copy, only to have the manufacturers say that they were legally allowed to make copies of every FLuke meter they made per the fine print of the manufacturing contracts they had with Fluke. Fluke claimed that was a lie because their meters were 'Made in the USA'. To which the foreign manufacturer rebutted them with, "No, they are ASSEMBLED in the USA. We make all your parts here for you then you put them together there." Fluke then quietly shut up and bought out all the club's meters they had made in hopes the leak about their meters being grossly overpriced cheap foreign-made junk would never get out. 🤣
EVERY industrial electrician and electronics engineer uses Fluke. When it counts, either because its dangerous or high precision, people trust Fluke. They are not cheap foreign made junk by any means. I dont know where you got this story, but this is flat out not true.
Finally an honest guy out here making tool videos.....I promise your an original. When I say no one who's done relative videos isn't a shill for tool trucks or harbor freight.......it's the truth
Hello 30+ year pro mechanic here. Nice video, I think it depends on what tool and how often you use it. I have a mix of all kinds of brands based on that. The snap-on truck has tons of items on it that are clearly made in Asia. They slap-on a snap-on decal and charge 5 times the price. However, their wrenches and sockets are 2nd to none. This is due to the quality of the steel and their special tempering process. This matters because the sockets can be thinner walled and the wrenches can be thinner at the box and open end and still be very strong. Engines and other things are built using such tools, You may not be able to access certain fasteners using cheaper tools because they are to bulky. Just my 2 cents !!!!!!
I have to disagree with you on the quality of the snap chrome sockets. They are basically glass. The Crack with very little force put on them. I'm 20 years in the trade and still have craftsman chrome sockets that are 30 years old and haven't broke one to date. I have replaced all my snap on sockets more than handful of times last year alone
@@cuzocustoms I doubt it hard to believe, crapsman is rubbish. Tons of people have never broken a snap-on socket. I threw crapsman away for snap-on, mac, proto.
Snap-on still makes majority of their tools. All their hard line tools are made by them. Those items made in Asia are not really snap-on those are private label and promos. Those don't count. Every manufacturer is involved in private label manufacturing.
@cuzocustoms you beat me to it. Most chrome sockets I've seen break are S.O. My boss agrees too. We are both old salts . Can't beat the S.O. 1/2 impact swivels tho. Bout hunnert bux a pop . Yow
@@Ask-Jesus-for-the-Holy-Spirit If You're having to break bolts loose with a 10 foot bar, then someone definitely excessively overtightened something, or it hadn't been removed in decades and was rusted solid.😁
Thanks for the review! I went with a $13 dollar Crescent 90T, to add to my various other Pittsburg and Craftsman ratchets. I have yet to break a ratchet in the last 15 years of working on my cars, bikes, motorcycles and home. I just use the right tools for the right job. If I need more than 150lb/ft of torque I use a 1/2" ratchet. If I need a something for a small bolt I use a 1/4", which I own like 6 different affordable models, keep one in each car, home and motorcycle as needed.
I have been wrenching for the past 50 years on everything from Air Force low bid tools to the Snap-on's. Personally I really do not care as long as it does the job that I want a ratchet for. I do have a variety of different ratchets including Icon, Snap-on, Bonney, SK, Craftsman, Mac, Channellock,Thoreson and Matco. I just grab what is handy to grab and it is off to the nut or bolt. I also know that for sheer toughness I grab my old Bonney 32 tooth round head ratchet for the tough jobs and the finer jobs I actually like the Channellock ones my wife picked up in a garage sale one time. I never bought any of these tools off the truck but my fullest set of tools are from Bonney that I got from Grainger in 1983. Over the years I been an automotive mechanic for 10 years and then 30 years working as an aviation mechanic and the tools I had at work were mostly my Bonney tools.
Finally, someone that can give an honest opinion about the quality of Icon vs SnapOn. Most guys are fanboys and assume that if you aren't spending 10× the amount on a similar tool, you aren't a real mechanic.
My icon 90 tooth broke on the first bolt the gears strated slipping. Hf tryed to replace it an i told them to eat shit give me my money back, they tryed to give me store credit. I still to this day have that store credit. Their tools are junk medium quality at best. Good if your a diy guy working on things in your garage, absolutely will not hold up in heavy daily use.
@@zachorytoth6091 So, a DIY owner operator truck driver is good to buy tools from HF but a full time heavy duty mechanic, Snap On is the preferred choice. Got it.
I love my Snap-ons and my Icons both, but I love my Snap-ons a little bit better. I get a warm feeling every time I pick up one of my 3/8 Snap-on wrenches, though whether it's the tool warming me or me warming the tool is an open question. I bought a set of 3/8 metric Snap-ons a few years ago with short, medium and long sockets, along with a couple of wrenches and some extensions used for $850, and they are my treasure. I have other Snap-on tools and all have that inner glow quality that comes from being exorbitantly expensive. I wish I could justify the cost of all Snap-on tools, but I can't. But those I have I love like my own children, except my Snap-ons are reliable and pretty to look at. I view my Icons a bit differently. They are also pretty, but they fail to emit an inner warmth. I guess you could say they are like classy strippers compared to Snap-on's prom queens. Not someone you'd bring home to momma, but a lot more accessible. Now if some of you are wondering what exactly it is I do with my tools, it's not like that. As far as you know.
It’s the exact opposite for me. I feel nothing but disgust, when I pick up one of my snap on tools, of any kind. I feel that disgust, simply because I know the icon one is just as good, if not better, for 1/3 the price.
For the average Joe who doesn’t wrench full time it’s nice to have a Harbor Freight in almost every town where you can exchange a defective tool with little to no hassle. Some people just can’t justify the cost of pro level tools. If I was a pro mechanic I would probably have a lot of Snap On or Matco tools for heavy use.
I haven't completed your video. But so far it has been very UNscientific. Let me refer you to the portion of the video where you count the engaging pawls. The larger rocking one piece pawl (Icon)only engages the last couple of teeth. If it has 7, as you said in the video. Only two have a full engagement. While the last 5 are progressively making less and less contact. In the Snap On design, because there are two separate pawls using spring tension, the tooth engagement is in greater positive number . Whether you like Snap On or not the mechanical design for ratchet pawl engagement is far superior to the simplyfied rocker pawl design. Due to the great error on your part. I cannot give credible value to the opinions presented in this video.
Keep in mind, the steel of the anvil is totally different. I believe the Snappy is USA MADE N Icon ids Taiwan. I have broken the anvil on both a 3/8" ratchet from Icon n a 1/2" breaker bar. My old snappys never had an issue
You are right about the gunmetal, I had to replace a 1/4 inch drive ratchet and got one of those, I wasn't happy again until I found the in 3/8 and 1/2 !
I have a gunmetal husky locking flexible head 3/8 I bought about 8 years ago. I wish I would have got a whole set back then. They patina so beautiful over the years.
I have both 1/4 drives in my ratchet draw at work both are very good but I prefer the snap-on. The ratcheting mechanism seems to have less drag when your in a tight space. The price is vastly different though 40 vs 100 is hard to swallow but I do like American made.
Nice comparison. But also consider that the Icon’s anvil is 90 tooth compared with the Snap-On’s 72. The Icon’s teeth aren’t going to be as deep or defined.
Plus the thickness of the icons internals plus the amount of teeth coming in contact with between the anvil and the pawls, more contact means less stress on one spot, wouldn’t need as heavy duty of metal or as deep of a tooth set
I’ve got icons regular and swivel wrenches, things are practically bulletproof. Have used and abused these things. They’ve done everything I’ve asked of them. For ratchets though I’ll stick With my gearwrechs
Snap on 3/8 and 1/2 ratchets have been 80 tooth for 20 years as far as I know. 1/4 drives are 72. I own about 12 snap on ratchets and I've only broken a couple
Sadly the 1/4 inch drive snappies can’t withstand constant use. The mechanisms seem to fail prematurely. Never had a problem with the 3/8 drive. Nothing beats the in hand feel of snap on.
RAM dealership left a Snap On ratchet under the hood, and I must say it was the best tool that has me wanting more.❤ Harbor Freight is like a kia, or Hyundai to me where I still remember it being junk.
I have a really old patent pending snap on ratchet that I inherited at my job. I'm guessing the newest it could be is from the early 80's. But I got it because it only worked in one direction. The pawl spring broke, and the other spring was worn out. A $15 repair kit fixed it to like new condition, on the company's dime of course.
i got a small set of Icon to see for myself how good or bad they are. man for the price, they can take a beating and they fit the nut sizes. i hate sloppy sockets or wrenches. wish i just went with a bigger set now. but i really didn't want to spend the money if they were junk. giving Pittsburg a run, never had Snap On. better than Craftsman that's for sure.
I've had about every common brand,, high dollar and mid to low dollar,, and the newer icon after the recall are really bad ass especially for ther money,,, and even more so the walk in warranty exchange no questions asked,, hard to beat over all,, tho,, a couple other brands did a little better in much more rigorous and scientific tests,, i promise it wasn't enough for the price difference,, icons rule right now,, overall,, in my opinion and i TOTALLY ABUSE ratchets and sockets sets
Better than the new Craftsman maybe. But the old Craftsman tools were great. A Project Farm did a video comparing different ratchet wrenches. An old, 1970's, Craftsman was the top performer.
I’ve used Icon ratchets along side my Snap On’s for 2 years now. Nothing bad to say. My favorite go to ratchet is the Pittsburgh Professional 3/8 and it takes a beating.
Based on your comparison, Snap-On is clearly superior in terms of both design and execution - whether it's worth paying 3 to 4 times as much for is going to be a personal decision, based on how deep your pockets are, and/or how much you're going to be using your ratchet. Ultimately, you can see why Snap-On is 'the professional's choice' here.
Snapon makes great tools only issue is the ridiculous pricing. Your paying a way higher price just to have that snapon logo on it then what the tool is worth. Goes for all the products they offer. The daytona snapon jack law suit really showed the brand charge on snapon tools
@@richardvacanti9428as a professional technician, and someone very fond of finding nice tools for good deals, ratchets are one of the only tools that are worth buying from snap on. If you're working on your own car at home it doesn't make sense to spent 100$ on a snap on ratchet, but I use mine every single day and would buy them again if I needed to
At Walmart in the Auto Care Center, we don't supply our own tools, we use the corporate contracted tools. As long as I've been here, just over 16 years, we've been using Steelman, and not their top tier line. However, if we were able to use our own tools, I'd have absolutely no problem buying Icon. My own personal tool line is mostly Craftsman with some Gearwrench and Pittsburgh Pro. But if I were to start over, I'd go Icon.
I like Harbor Freight stuff because I'm cheap. 😄 I work on planes. So far, I haven't had any bad experiences shopping at Harbor Freight. The only tool that stopped working on me was a 1/4" drive stubby ratchet made by Pittsburgh. Harbor Freight gave me a new one with no questions asked because the ratchet has a lifetime warranty. When I'm feeling a little bougie, I spend my money on Icon tools 😊
as a non-professional, DIYer, both ratchets do the same thing sitting in the tool box in the garage...I have a Metrinch (3/8) socket set that's been w/me for 25+ years and that ratchet (unknown teeth ct) is still going strong. it takes a long sweep for a tooth click so I suspect it has 72 or fewer teeth. It too sits still just the same when not in use.... I'll save money where I can as my tools rest more than they work.
I have tons on snap on and icon tools. I can say I have yet to break an icon ratchet. I’ve broke two snap on ratchets this year. They are 20 years old so it is to be expected. Had a rebuild kit dropped in both and they are as good as new
I had my first use of a icon this weekend that was well used at a shop. It was junk. lol. The mechanic said it was crap too. lol. That was enough for me on the ratchets.
I don't wrench every day. But I'm also hard on my tools. Owning a 89' burb. I m going with icon. Great prices. So far icon has had great reviews on y.t. even from some pros. If I wrenched everyday. Maybe snap on. But even that would still be pushing it. I've Bae the hell out of my craftsman too. Still wrenching.
There’s a review of a Koken ratchet coming next week. Spoiler: it’s reasonably priced and very high quality. I’ve been using it for a few weeks now, I like it a lot.
those kokens are nice i dont mind budget ratchets but i wont use cheap sockets at work. using snap on sockets has cut down on rounded bolts massively, also cheap sockets have a poor internal shoulder specially the 1/2 drive deeps.
Most of my tools are Craftsman and are about 30 to 40 years old.. I'm not a mechanic, but I do wrench on my own cars. I've only had 2 sockets crack. One of them was in the last few years in the era where simple replacement is not possibe. I miss perusing the tool sectiion at Sears. I also miss vibrant malls to spend time at. 😢
@@ToolDemos snappy is easier to get fixed And Harbir freight exchange system sucks it all depends on if you get a Nice rep or a jerk most harbor freight stores around me will argue with you and give you every excuse on why they won't Exchange your Tool
Retired ASE certified tech with 40 plus years experience, I have used many different brands of ratchets over the years but the quality of the Snap On ratchets is way better than anything else in my opinion
Snap-on is better but is it 3 times better? You could own 3 Icon ratchets for what one Snap-on costs. Value is an important part of the equation. Money is a factor. We don't all have unlimited funds. Performance wise Snap-on is second to none but they need to work on brand value some. It is a competitive world. Otherwise Harbor Freight will eat their lunch.
I bought my first ratchet (SK) from a pawn shop with the idea when it wore out I would be better off financially and be able to buy a better one. I do not like the round twisty switch in the head and want a lever switch. Can’t wait to get my new one when this one dies. I bought the SK IN 1976 and it won’t die.
Great comparison Steve, there are definitely differences that I think go in favor of the Snap-on, but are the differences worth the additional $85? I say yes, but that's me and everyone else will have to make that decision for themselves. Thanks for another awesome video dude!
If you're on the pit crew at Indy then sure go for the best. Everyone else I think can afford to step down a rung in performance though. You will have the time to grab the right tool for the job. Being as your success and failure isn't being measured in thousandths of a second.
The snap on has 6 teeth contact on the paws because it had larger teeth at only 72 vs 90. Also the machining on icon is fine becsuse it looks like it’s by design if u look closely it’s got horizontal grooves
Snap on certainly feels better in the hand, that FL80 and all of the variants are probably the best 3/8 on the market. However, nearly $200 is, well it's just that and there's one heck of an argument to be made for gearwrench or icon simply because they both feel really good and they're about 25% of the money versus snap-on. Decision gets even harder if we start talking about tool boxes. Those icon boxes are the best value on the market. Oh before I forget, on the snap-on, one of the best parts is that replaceable soft handle. Costs you about 10 bucks to switch it out when it gets beat up
They look similar but the materials, workmanship and warranties are completely different. Yes, I've broken teeth on my 50 year old 1/4" SnapOn ratchet, but SnapOn replaced the insides for free. The 3/8" ratchet has never given me any problems of any kind.
Harbor Freight doesn’t replace the gears (snap on uses inferior replacement gears compared to the original), they hand you an entire new ratchet. That includes their, absolutely fantastic, Icon line.
I work on cars professionally, my 3/8” icon ratchet is better than my 3/8” snap on one and it costs 1/3 the price. My Pittsburgh 1/4” flex head, is just as good as the snap on 1/4” flex head (which I also own), that it copies. Edit: I bought the Pittsburg one as a backup because I had to wait a week for snap on to show up, and I couldn’t believe how great it was for a $15 ratchet, especially compared to the $120 that the snap on one cost me.
I consider the HF warranty to be superior to Snap-On's. Unlike the Snap-On guy, HF never complains about having to replace a broken tool and I can warrant it any day of the week without having to wait for the rep to come by. With that said, if I didn't live conveniently close to a Harbor Freight store or had to rely on my tools for the long haul, I'd choose Snap-On or one of the other Big Three (Matco, Mac).
Who in the hell ever said that ICON was equivalent to Snap On??? The Snap on is 2x the price. I own snap on. They aren’t the best, KOKEN is by a MILE. Japanese make better stuff than us bone head Americans. Just true. But for the everyday shade tree icon is fine.
Thank you for making the comparison video. Icon copied the profile of Snap On. The inner workings are different. My guess is that Snap On's patent for the ratchet shape has long been expired. The Icon looks to be a good ratchet for $35. If it fails it can be exchanged for a new one.
Seriously, you're counting the 0.01" height difference on a flexible component as an objective victory, with the same value as a 72 vs 90 tooth difference?
For those of us who are not using tools professionally or using them daily, buying some of these brands that don't come with the name rec is the way to go.
Just bought the new 1/4 inch 80 tooth ratchet thr72 off the truck, there is too much side to side play on the anvil. With the thicker comfort grip you can't even tell if you're applying too much side force on the ratchet.
As a snap on guy, I am impressed by the icon ratchets but you buy a snap on tool you have a tool for life with the warranty, have to wait and see if icon is as good on their warranty as snap on is
Harbor Freight's warranty is legendary. It really is no questions asked. You walk in with a busted tool and you walk out with a new one. Heck before they had stores all over the place I called them on the phone and they shipped me out a new tool. That was 30 years ago. How long are you planning on waiting?
If you make your living with Snap On tools, and you break one, do you really have a week to wait for the truck to come around to hopefully have one in stock? Or do you drive to HF the same day for the free replacement and you are back to work?
I can’t speak for everyone else but my rep will come same day and replace and if he doesn’t have the exact tool he loans a similar tool free of charge, he’s never been out of stock with ratchets and sockets and hand tools and none of my tools have ever broken in my 4 years of being a diesel tech for a cummins shop
I've owned a job shop for 40 years I have large pieces of equipment, a lot of hand tools and power tools . With CNC equipment and technology the way it is. It is. Icons are really good and there's a lot of other good tools out there. All I know is anyone that is still buying snap-on is dumb.
You really need to compare the Rockwell hardness test on the pawls and ratchet wheels. I'm going to guess the Snap-on is made of much harder tool steel...
I will let you in on a little secret. The secret the secret the secret is icon, hired one of the engineers that had worked at Snap on and paid him a lot more money to design tools for Harbor freight that would compete with Snap on, so you can understand the similarities. There are between Snap on an icon because they were designed by a former Snap on engineer, the problem is. He has to make small subtle design changes in order to be able to hold the patent for Harbor freight and avoid copyright infringement, other otherwise, if he built exactly the same way as the Snap on even right down to the hardness, the depth of the teeth Snap on consume icon into oblivion. That's why if you take a look. There are very subtle small changes. But here's the real fun fact. I do know somebody that works for Snap on and Snap on tools are all made at the same factory that makes icon Snap on no longer manufactured their tools in the United States. Their manufactured in China under a contract for Snap and having said that, I will say to any of you who are going to buy tools for mechanic use. Don't buy Snap on. I fell into that trap. And I was a professional automotive mechanic for 34 years. Cost in marine mechanic as well. Aviation mechanic work, motorcycle mechanic work and heavy equipment diesel mechanic. So I have covered it all. And I do know what I am talking A bout spent years wasting a lot of money on Snap on Mac matco Cornwell all of them. On The tool trucks even I could tell you that had I known what I know now back then if icon had existed I would have bought icon exclusively and saved a hell of a lot of money over the years. Without having extremely high tool payments.
That's a straight up false statement you made. Snap-on manufactures their own tools in the USA in Wisconsin, Tennessee, boxes in Iowa. Where did you get your false info from. HF and Snap-on have no relation or correlation with each other. You sound like a cheapwad who is mad having overspent on tools and wants to vent out.
@@christianthomle4426 that’s straight up false info snap on and hf has no relation or correlation with each other there’s no collusion. Snap-on is made in the USA like Wisconsin, Tennessee, and boxes in Iowa. quit misleading people into saying that HF and snapon is the same.
Sounds like you fell into the tool loan trap. That doesn't mean snap on isn't great it means u made poor decisions. I've never taken a loan for a single socket and have zero complaints about snap on. Also I have broken many tools they have replaced multiple times. That has paid itself off many times. Buy once cry once just dont put urself in a bad spot taking ridiculous loans. Auto companies will bankrupt you if you listen to the sales guy. Same thing here doesn't relate to quality or value of the tools. Not saying don't buy cheap to get by but like I previously stated the warranty alone is worth the value wich you WILL break tools over the years and don't have to buy again
Anyone that says that Snapon is a status symbol, most likely does not use tools every day, i have purchased every company sockets and tools, snapon last a lot longer and are more durable, at the end of the day shade tree mechanics do not need snapon, but when you wear out a matco socket every month, then going to a snapon that wili last a year or more make s big difference,
@@Volksoner619 I did, for our sockets we use all day lone like the 7/16 and the 5/16 we went to a Snapon, the Matco Sockets just dont cut it they are the same as Home Depot or Lowes, some sockets only get used once ever other year, and then the 7/16 gets used on Rod Bolts all day long.
Less teeth means that they can be milled into the Anvil deeper. 90 teeth only have a limited amount of space and thus can't be "deeper". It's all about how the pawl grabs the Anvil for Strength...
I would no doubt prefer a snap on ratchet. But $50 for a 3/8" flex head ratchet. If you got multiple tool boxes or want something to throw in the truck tool kit or keep in a car or whatever. The icons are pretty hard to beat.
One thought to add to this, the harder the anvil the more prone it is to shearing in a stress load applied to it. So assuming one tool will wear out faster becuase of lack of hardness, it may not break as easy when anvil hits its limits. If both tools have lifetime warranty, snap on will be breaking anvils when pushed after being used with some hours on the tool, the icon will just wear out and may have problems like old school craftsman where it wolnt hold direction on the paw selector when loaded. Icon would be simply worn out and then other is broken in a manor that could be related to abuse. If your using cheater bars, they make breaker bars in different drive sizes. They will both break if you use a cheater bar. Most fasteners shouldnt be torqued over a 100ft lbs with a 3/8 drive even though ANSI specs 150 ft lbs. Thats just poor engineering if you have a faster only acessible by a 3/8 or smaller drive that requires more torque than the said 100 ft lbs. Just my 2 cents
@@ToolDemos I'm not sure why the ability to be rebuilt is an upside for Snap On. Let's say you're in the middle of a project and your ratchet breaks. Which would you prefer, having to wait until the ratchet is repaired or being able to walk out of the store with a brand new ratchet? I'm not sure how long it takes to get a Snap On tool rebuilt, but I assume it takes more time than it would for me to drive to my local HF store. Of course, not everyone has a local HF store. For some, the nearest store might be hours away. Even then, most likely you could still be back at work with your brand new Icon ratchet before you've received your rebuilt Snap On.
@@DKWalser as a mechanic i run snap on at work and have doubles just in case but the tool truck keeps the parts to rebuild ratchets in stock on the truck so its ten minutes max to rebuild. as far as cheap ratchets for home i actually use kobolt 90tooth flex heads, smooth, decently strong, and lifetime warranty.
I think there is a bit of discrepancy for the tooth engagement. 6 larger tooth pawl engaged on 72 tooth main anvil gear. Will likely be stronger than the smaller shallow 90 tooth main anvil gear with 7 tooth pawl engagement. I could be wrong but I believe the engagement is based on tooth percentage and contact patch. This would increase the contact patch with Snapon including the 2 piece pawl in Snapon which allows more articulation into increase better tooth to tooth engagement. This also amplifies with tooth design of Snapon. Again I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.
I'm in the surface area camp, given that the material is hardened sufficiently. The 72 tooth design looks chunkier, but a fine thread screw is stronger than a coarse thread and it seems to me like the same physics are at play. Who knows though, I'd be curious to see a side by side of that.
I have snap on tools that are many decades old. I know they were use hard and still work great. I believe it’s because of the steel. Icon proudly utilizes Chinesium. I believe it’s number 137 on the Chinese periodic table.
@@1pcfred thank you for such insight into my transgression regarding cheap knives. I shall make sincere efforts to correct such egregious accusations in the future. Earth shattering topics demand more respect.
So you're comparing an older style ratchet to a newer style ratchet makes sense honestly I've had both of them and the snap-on is so much better and way way more reliable Yes icon does have lifetime warranty however you're warranting that ratchet more times than one should for a tool
The Icon won this comparison by far! As you showed they are very very close in quality. Now, let's look at warranty and ease of warranty. For the Icon, return to any HF store no questions asked. For the Snap On people have had issues if they're not in the mechanic industry. You may not be able to get a warranty done on the Snap On. Now, let's address the 800 lb Gorilla. A $35 Icon compared to what, a $145 Snap On? That alone makes the Icon soank the Snap On when comparing the two. Based on comparisons like this Icon should be converting mechanics and honeowners to Icon over Snap On. The value just isn't there with Snap On. But then again, was it ever?
I’d say for professional use - in the past - Snap On was definitely the way to go. Now, the ProSumer brands are stepping up the quality and are very competitive with the professional stuff.
All y'all in the comments are just rich snap-on fanboys. I run my entire (successful for over 15 yrs) shop with husky tools. They hardly ever fail us and when they do, we skip over to HD to grab a new one. All at 1/10 of the price.
I like this video good info and good to see the different points of both im a dealer tech and have more rachets and 1/2 drive impacts than any of my co workers but I have older snap on rachets I've never had to warranty but the price point is higher icon I think is great for a guy just starting out or for someone that wants nicer than husky or kobalt
I’d be willing to bet snap on are milled, but that icon anvils are that “powdered metal” type of manufacturing.. can’t recall the actual name off hand but that’s at least a solid descriptor.. more than enough to google for the curious
The word you're looking for is, sintered. With sintering you can actually make alloys that couldn't normally exist otherwise. You can also sinter absolute crap too. It all depends on how you do it.
I have both Icon and Snap On, and the SO ratchets aren't clear winners - they're both really great ratchets. The 3rd-place for me is a pretty-distant SK LP90...
I've got over 30K in SnapOn stuff and love it, but I gotta admit, that Icon stuff is tough to beat for the price. Within the last year I bought an Icon 1/2" ratchet and broke it (my fault), walked into harbor freight without receipt and they just said "Refund or exchange?" Then told me to go grab a new one off the shelf. I also broke my Snapon 1/2" (my fault) and dealer put in a parts kit which I was OK with, but my Snapon1/2" breaker bar that failed and the dealer simply replaced the anvil, was a bit disappointing for what I've spent and knowing if the knuckle fails and break my knuckles open, I'm gonna be pissed. Hard to tell anymore where a lot of this stuff is made and BS "blue point" and stanley buying mac , both years ago, didn't help.
Trusting the metalurgy of any supplier who sells steels to the purchaser of products to be made for horrible Freight is - - well they can't be trusted. There will be hot spots poorly mixed areas low quality additions abd sloppy heat treat - - everything is done on the cheap. So just because it 's all pink and sparkly is no indicator of quality. Snap On quality has taken a dive lately I prefer Craftsman tools from the 70s and 80s
Japan smelts more steel than the USA does now and I bet Snap-on is getting imported steel today. You'd better get with the times and smell the coffee. Wake up! In fact there was a big controversy about Snap-on using mainland China anvils in their ratchets. For a bit they took the USA mark off their tools too. They were testing the waters.
And then you can get Williams USA made sockets to go along with it for a third of the price of the snap-on ones they're the same sockets made on the same line in the United States
the snap on teeth are also deeper and more defined better grip when applying torque.... tbh i hate ratchets with soo many teeth they usually messed up mid motion....and switch the other direction and bind up.. havent found a good 1/4 ratchet yet....
One more note about Snapon on the exterior (aside from the obvious grip handle), noticed just before he starts taking them apart, is that the Snapon is just a bit LONGER. Which means you can get just a bit more LEVERAGE. Physics matters. Enough to warrant the COST difference? That's a whole different question, and since I'm not a mechanic and just a random dipstick on the internet, I don't really have a valid opinion.
I'm guessing he used the Snappy he had that was the same drive size to illustrate the guts. I wouldn't doubt they make one with a similar all metal shorter handle that would be equivalent to the Icon. Firgure all Icon tools are targeted torwards specific SO's for marketing $ comparisons.
If I want more leverage I'll use a longer handle tool. Ratchet drives are not breaker bars. Really torque is not usually the correct solution to frozen fasteners. You bust enough hardware and you might just figure that out someday.
I would suggest that the Snap On is a much higher grade steel. Usually Harbor Freight tools are usually made with Lower grade steel, and if you borrow $140 Snap On add imagine that the Snap On is made out of a higher grade hardened steel probably D2 carbon steel. And I’m talking about the interior gears of the Snap On wrench, the rest of the Snap On wrenches also made out of a higher grade of steel than the icon wrench. There’s a reason why you pay $100 more money for the tools that come off the truck then you do for the cheap shit at Harbor Freight
sorry sir , you pay $100 more because there is 4 layers of mark up on that wrench. and every layer wants in your pocket. those wrenches are most likely made in the same factory from the same steel.
I agree that there is nothing wrong "paying a little more" if something is a little better or even if "it makes me feel good using it". 4 times as much? I'm a Chevrolet guy, if a new F150 cost $50,000 and a Chevrolet cost $200,000 but had a couple more options how would I justify that? Yes, I can afford Snap On with no problem.
@@ToolDemos Absolutly, You have every right to buy what you want. It's not what I would choose. Then again, I collect Mont Blanc ink pens, some would say that's stupid but it's my money and my choice if I want an ink pen that cost more than three Snap On ratchets. Some people may say that "Snap On thinks their stuff is made of gold", Hell, I have pens that are made of gold and iridium.
People will always try to justify snap on by saying they feel better or they like them more. The same way people justify buying a $1500 kirby vacuum cleaner or a Harley. Its a status symbol pushed by talented salesman with easy credit. Admitting that anything else is just as good or better would mean admitting they made a mistake.
Most of my tools came off the Snap On truck, so I am used to using them. I’ve been using the Icon and Koken ratchets for a while to test them, and I get frustrated sometimes. Mostly because the switches aren’t very good. Not saying this is enough of a reason to spend the extra coin, but I don’t regret doing it.
Winner winner chicken dinner. I own a pile of snap on, I owned a Kirby and I’ve owned two Harley’s. I bought my Kirby for 1/3 msrp cash. Then proceeded to leave it to my ex wife, she still uses it 25 years later. I bought a 2008 street glide traded it for a 2011, then it was totaled, I got more for it from my insurance company than I paid for it. Probably only cost me $1000 for 3 years of riding. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s not worth the money. You keep buying harbor freight, Hoovers and Kawasakis, it’s all good. I’m not saying those are bad, it’s just not the same.
Ah, the tired old "name brands are only for status" argument. I bought my classic 911 because I was blown away at the driving experience. If someone wants to think that I drive it as a status symbol that's on them. There are plenty of other cars that are faster, more comfortable, safer, etc., but there is no other car that will give the same experience as my old 911. I love that little thing.
As far as admitting things, do you think that the anti established brands people just might have certain things that THEY don't want to admit?
@@overbuiltlimited You're asking them questions they aren't prepared to answer
The thing I've found with the "anti-established" crowd, just the same as it is with the "Die-Hard Loyalist" crowd, is that they are typically lacking in any and all nuance. "Worth" of these tools, and really any tool anywhere, is more or less subjective to most people.
Why you so pissed about what someone else spends their money on? I’ll buy you a Snap On ratchet if you want.
Taking apart a ratchet reminds me of my job with the Sears Hardware department MANY years ago, before they went completely to shit. Yes, we could replace your ratchet if it broke or didn't work right. Free. No questions asked. But the old timers who really knew better would ask for a rebuild of their old one, and for a very short time when I worked there, they were still doing those rebuild kits. The guts of the old ratchets were just so much more superior.
I miss that old Sears experience.
which is so crazy considering we can cnc parts so easy now days. Like it makes no sense why we cant get quality for much cheaper but that is where icon is stepping in. With how young they are its only gonna get better with time because when you have a 6 yr old brand competeing with like a 100 yr old brand it shouldnt be a competition but i think withn the next 5 years icon will be the same quality for way way cheaper. Its sad we dont have american companies trying to do what chinese companies are but i guess you cant relly beat slave labor.
Those were the good days! When they were made in America and people stood behind their product.
@@burnout7702yeah old craftsman ratchets were pretty savage. You could’ve bought it back in the 70s and it would still work and be useful today
I am still using my craftsman ratchets I bought back in 70s, much better than even the couple of snapons I have. This modern day stuff is built too cheaply to last a lifetime
Your comparing a 72 to a 90 tooth anvil they're gonna be drastically different with deeper machining just an observation thank you for this video man!
Agreed. More teeth = smaller/shallower teeth by laws of physics.
Came to the comments for literally this
😂😂😂 what I was thinking too
What’s funny is that every one of you are wrong. The teeth can be as deeply machined as you want them to be. The only thing limiting machining depth is how thick/strong you want the teeth at the apex. The deeper you machine the teeth, the narrower they become at the apex and as a result - the weaker they become.
I was going to make the same comment. The Icon has 18 more teeth than the Snap-on and there is only so much space to cut grooves on the surface. So it would be logical that more teeth on the same surface means they have to be smaller. Also the Pall on the Icon has 1 more tooth holding as opposed to the Snap-on. So I would call that a wash.
This reminds me of the 'fake fluke Meter' thing that happened years ago.
The short story goes a bit like this.
Some big online electronics hobbyist forum/club commissioned a foreign electronics manufacturer to make a custom multimeter for them.
Fluke saw them and then tried to sue them for copyright infringement since it was basically identical to one of their high-dollar units.
The foreign manufacturer got pulled in to explain things and said that yes it's basically a Fluke meter we did some minor changes to in order to get around the copyright issue.
Fluke then had a fit about it because they admitted that it was a copy, only to have the manufacturers say that they were legally allowed to make copies of every FLuke meter they made per the fine print of the manufacturing contracts they had with Fluke.
Fluke claimed that was a lie because their meters were 'Made in the USA'. To which the foreign manufacturer rebutted them with, "No, they are ASSEMBLED in the USA. We make all your parts here for you then you put them together there."
Fluke then quietly shut up and bought out all the club's meters they had made in hopes the leak about their meters being grossly overpriced cheap foreign-made junk would never get out. 🤣
Wow! That’s ready for a movie or documentary or something. Thanks for the story.
but are they really junk??
You wouldn't happen to have a link regarding that story would you...
EVERY industrial electrician and electronics engineer uses Fluke. When it counts, either because its dangerous or high precision, people trust Fluke. They are not cheap foreign made junk by any means. I dont know where you got this story, but this is flat out not true.
@@edry18 probably not because it never happened
Finally an honest guy out here making tool videos.....I promise your an original. When I say no one who's done relative videos isn't a shill for tool trucks or harbor freight.......it's the truth
Thank you Steven, I really appreciate you saying that. I’ll be working to keep it real.
Hello 30+ year pro mechanic here. Nice video, I think it depends on what tool and how often you use it. I have a mix of all kinds of brands based on that. The snap-on truck has tons of items on it that are clearly made in Asia. They slap-on a snap-on decal and charge 5 times the price. However, their wrenches and sockets are 2nd to none. This is due to the quality of the steel and their special tempering process. This matters because the sockets can be thinner walled and the wrenches can be thinner at the box and open end and still be very strong. Engines and other things are built using such tools, You may not be able to access certain fasteners using cheaper tools because they are to bulky. Just my 2 cents !!!!!!
Great point.
I have to disagree with you on the quality of the snap chrome sockets. They are basically glass. The Crack with very little force put on them. I'm 20 years in the trade and still have craftsman chrome sockets that are 30 years old and haven't broke one to date. I have replaced all my snap on sockets more than handful of times last year alone
@@cuzocustoms I doubt it hard to believe, crapsman is rubbish. Tons of people have never broken a snap-on socket. I threw crapsman away for snap-on, mac, proto.
Snap-on still makes majority of their tools. All their hard line tools are made by them. Those items made in Asia are not really snap-on those are private label and promos. Those don't count. Every manufacturer is involved in private label manufacturing.
@cuzocustoms you beat me to it. Most chrome sockets I've seen break are S.O. My boss agrees too. We are both old salts . Can't beat the S.O. 1/2 impact swivels tho. Bout hunnert bux a pop . Yow
I had many different ratchets over the last 30 years and snap on has always worked the best
No doubt!
100% they have always worked with out fail, Unless the 10ft cheater bar of course.
@@Ask-Jesus-for-the-Holy-Spirit If You're having to break bolts loose with a 10 foot bar, then someone definitely excessively overtightened something, or it hadn't been removed in decades and was rusted solid.😁
Craftsman and snapon for me. I prefer classic craftsman because those ratchets double as hammers.
Define "best". How do you quantify your claim? Do you have a data set?
Project Farm has a great side by side test between various ratchets. Their video complements a comparison like this very well.
The Den of Tools does comparisons from time to time too.
Thanks for the review! I went with a $13 dollar Crescent 90T, to add to my various other Pittsburg and Craftsman ratchets. I have yet to break a ratchet in the last 15 years of working on my cars, bikes, motorcycles and home. I just use the right tools for the right job. If I need more than 150lb/ft of torque I use a 1/2" ratchet. If I need a something for a small bolt I use a 1/4", which I own like 6 different affordable models, keep one in each car, home and motorcycle as needed.
Sounds great!
Your not a mechanic if you haven't busted a ratchet in 15 years. I've broke many over the years. 😊
I have been wrenching for the past 50 years on everything from Air Force low bid tools to the Snap-on's. Personally I really do not care as long as it does the job that I want a ratchet for. I do have a variety of different ratchets including Icon, Snap-on, Bonney, SK, Craftsman, Mac, Channellock,Thoreson and Matco. I just grab what is handy to grab and it is off to the nut or bolt. I also know that for sheer toughness I grab my old Bonney 32 tooth round head ratchet for the tough jobs and the finer jobs I actually like the Channellock ones my wife picked up in a garage sale one time. I never bought any of these tools off the truck but my fullest set of tools are from Bonney that I got from Grainger in 1983.
Over the years I been an automotive mechanic for 10 years and then 30 years working as an aviation mechanic and the tools I had at work were mostly my Bonney tools.
I’ve never had a Bonney, but I’ve heard a few people now mention them. Are they still making tools?
@@ToolDemos No Bonney no longer makes tools. They discontinued making tools in mid 1990's after being after Cooper tools bought them
Finally, someone that can give an honest opinion about the quality of Icon vs SnapOn. Most guys are fanboys and assume that if you aren't spending 10× the amount on a similar tool, you aren't a real mechanic.
I am trying to be objective, thanks. I appreciate when people help keep me unbiased.
Project Farm did a smack-down test and the Icon was in the top 4
My icon 90 tooth broke on the first bolt the gears strated slipping. Hf tryed to replace it an i told them to eat shit give me my money back, they tryed to give me store credit. I still to this day have that store credit. Their tools are junk medium quality at best. Good if your a diy guy working on things in your garage, absolutely will not hold up in heavy daily use.
@@zachorytoth6091 So, a DIY owner operator truck driver is good to buy tools from HF but a full time heavy duty mechanic, Snap On is the preferred choice. Got it.
I love my Snap-ons and my Icons both, but I love my Snap-ons a little bit better. I get a warm feeling every time I pick up one of my 3/8 Snap-on wrenches, though whether it's the tool warming me or me warming the tool is an open question. I bought a set of 3/8 metric Snap-ons a few years ago with short, medium and long sockets, along with a couple of wrenches and some extensions used for $850, and they are my treasure. I have other Snap-on tools and all have that inner glow quality that comes from being exorbitantly expensive. I wish I could justify the cost of all Snap-on tools, but I can't. But those I have I love like my own children, except my Snap-ons are reliable and pretty to look at.
I view my Icons a bit differently. They are also pretty, but they fail to emit an inner warmth. I guess you could say they are like classy strippers compared to Snap-on's prom queens. Not someone you'd bring home to momma, but a lot more accessible. Now if some of you are wondering what exactly it is I do with my tools, it's not like that. As far as you know.
That’s awesome, you could be an author.
It’s the exact opposite for me. I feel nothing but disgust, when I pick up one of my snap on tools, of any kind. I feel that disgust, simply because I know the icon one is just as good, if not better, for 1/3 the price.
@@robotron1236 well I hope the Icons keep rocking it for you. I just got the new flush cutters and they are excellent.
Great video. Just picked up an icon 3/8 flex head ratchet with an additional 25% off this weekend for $33.
Nice! Great deal.
For the average Joe who doesn’t wrench full time it’s nice to have a Harbor Freight in almost every town where you can exchange a defective tool with little to no hassle. Some people just can’t justify the cost of pro level tools. If I was a pro mechanic I would probably have a lot of Snap On or Matco tools for heavy use.
I love my snap on ratchets, I haven't liked any other handle design and my other ratchets are always puking their guts out when I drop them lol
Lol
I haven't completed your video. But so far it has been very UNscientific. Let me refer you to the portion of the video where you count the engaging pawls.
The larger rocking one piece pawl (Icon)only engages the last couple of teeth. If it has 7, as you said in the video. Only two have a full engagement. While the last 5 are progressively making less and less contact.
In the Snap On design, because there are two separate pawls using spring tension, the tooth engagement is in greater positive number .
Whether you like Snap On or not the mechanical design for ratchet pawl engagement is far superior to the simplyfied rocker pawl design.
Due to the great error on your part. I cannot give credible value to the opinions presented in this video.
Keep in mind, the steel of the anvil is totally different. I believe the Snappy is USA MADE N Icon ids Taiwan. I have broken the anvil on both a 3/8" ratchet from Icon n a 1/2" breaker bar. My old snappys never had an issue
💯
My favorite 1/4 Dr ratchet is the gearwrench 90T really slim head on it still love my sk lp 90 ratchets
I love my 120 tooth Craftsman Gunmetal Chrome ratchets - not only do they work great but they are beautiful like no other ratchet out there.
That is a cool look.
You are right about the gunmetal, I had to replace a 1/4 inch drive ratchet and got one of those, I wasn't happy again until I found the in 3/8 and 1/2 !
I have a gunmetal husky locking flexible head 3/8 I bought about 8 years ago. I wish I would have got a whole set back then. They patina so beautiful over the years.
I have both 1/4 drives in my ratchet draw at work both are very good but I prefer the snap-on. The ratcheting mechanism seems to have less drag when your in a tight space. The price is vastly different though 40 vs 100 is hard to swallow but I do like American made.
Drawer it’s spelled DRAWER
Nice comparison. But also consider that the Icon’s anvil is 90 tooth compared with the Snap-On’s 72. The Icon’s teeth aren’t going to be as deep or defined.
the 90tooth snap ons are deeper than icons aswell
@@shrekdaklown, Snap-on doesn't offer a 90 tooth.
Plus the thickness of the icons internals plus the amount of teeth coming in contact with between the anvil and the pawls, more contact means less stress on one spot, wouldn’t need as heavy duty of metal or as deep of a tooth set
I’ve got icons regular and swivel wrenches, things are practically bulletproof. Have used and abused these things. They’ve done everything I’ve asked of them. For ratchets though I’ll stick With my gearwrechs
Snap on 3/8 and 1/2 ratchets have been 80 tooth for 20 years as far as I know. 1/4 drives are 72. I own about 12 snap on ratchets and I've only broken a couple
Sadly the 1/4 inch drive snappies can’t withstand constant use. The mechanisms seem to fail prematurely. Never had a problem with the 3/8 drive. Nothing beats the in hand feel of snap on.
That sucks about the 1/4”. I do agree about the feel.
RAM dealership left a Snap On ratchet under the hood, and I must say it was the best tool that has me wanting more.❤ Harbor Freight is like a kia, or Hyundai to me where I still remember it being junk.
A blessing and a curse! Now you’re spoiled. 😁
I have a really old patent pending snap on ratchet that I inherited at my job. I'm guessing the newest it could be is from the early 80's. But I got it because it only worked in one direction. The pawl spring broke, and the other spring was worn out. A $15 repair kit fixed it to like new condition, on the company's dime of course.
That’s really cool.
The only thing I would add to the tooth strength assessment is the fact that Icon has a wider set of teeth. Love the video
Thanks
i got a small set of Icon to see for myself how good or bad they are. man for the price, they can take a beating and they fit the nut sizes. i hate sloppy sockets or wrenches. wish i just went with a bigger set now. but i really didn't want to spend the money if they were junk. giving Pittsburg a run, never had Snap On. better than Craftsman that's for sure.
I've had about every common brand,, high dollar and mid to low dollar,, and the newer icon after the recall are really bad ass especially for ther money,,, and even more so the walk in warranty exchange no questions asked,, hard to beat over all,, tho,, a couple other brands did a little better in much more rigorous and scientific tests,, i promise it wasn't enough for the price difference,, icons rule right now,, overall,, in my opinion and i TOTALLY ABUSE ratchets and sockets sets
Imma tell you right now pass on Pittsburgh it’s weird to say this about hf products but but once cry once there’s Pittsburgh line was ehh
Better than the new Craftsman maybe. But the old Craftsman tools were great. A Project Farm did a video comparing different ratchet wrenches. An old, 1970's, Craftsman was the top performer.
I’ve used Icon ratchets along side my Snap On’s for 2 years now. Nothing bad to say. My favorite go to ratchet is the Pittsburgh Professional 3/8 and it takes a beating.
Based on your comparison, Snap-On is clearly superior in terms of both design and execution - whether it's worth paying 3 to 4 times as much for is going to be a personal decision, based on how deep your pockets are, and/or how much you're going to be using your ratchet. Ultimately, you can see why Snap-On is 'the professional's choice' here.
Exactly. I just like them better.
I would not say it is superior it’s slightly better, but at how much more money. Their prices are ridiculous.
@@richardvacanti9428 Well, everyone knows that Snap-On is never going to be the budget choice, but somehow they manage to keep selling tools.
Snapon makes great tools only issue is the ridiculous pricing. Your paying a way higher price just to have that snapon logo on it then what the tool is worth. Goes for all the products they offer. The daytona snapon jack law suit really showed the brand charge on snapon tools
@@richardvacanti9428as a professional technician, and someone very fond of finding nice tools for good deals, ratchets are one of the only tools that are worth buying from snap on. If you're working on your own car at home it doesn't make sense to spent 100$ on a snap on ratchet, but I use mine every single day and would buy them again if I needed to
+1 for using "Schmoo". All I could think of was AVE saying schmoo when you were talking about the seal on the snapon, and then you said it. LOL
AvE is awesome, really funny guy.
At Walmart in the Auto Care Center, we don't supply our own tools, we use the corporate contracted tools. As long as I've been here, just over 16 years, we've been using Steelman, and not their top tier line.
However, if we were able to use our own tools, I'd have absolutely no problem buying Icon.
My own personal tool line is mostly Craftsman with some Gearwrench and Pittsburgh Pro. But if I were to start over, I'd go Icon.
Some of their stuff looks impressive. Much higher quality than HF 10-15 years ago.
@@ToolDemos Icon was intended to take on the higher tier tool lines.
I like Harbor Freight stuff because I'm cheap. 😄
I work on planes. So far, I haven't had any bad experiences shopping at Harbor Freight. The only tool that stopped working on me was a 1/4" drive stubby ratchet made by Pittsburgh. Harbor Freight gave me a new one with no questions asked because the ratchet has a lifetime warranty. When I'm feeling a little bougie, I spend my money on Icon tools 😊
Right on!
Are you line or hanger maintenance or GA?
The biggest difference is the price
as a non-professional, DIYer, both ratchets do the same thing sitting in the tool box in the garage...I have a Metrinch (3/8) socket set that's been w/me for 25+ years and that ratchet (unknown teeth ct) is still going strong. it takes a long sweep for a tooth click so I suspect it has 72 or fewer teeth. It too sits still just the same when not in use.... I'll save money where I can as my tools rest more than they work.
WOW IVE USED SNAP-ON FOR 45 PLUS YEARS!!!!!! GOING 2 HF NOW!!!!!! AND PICKING UP A ICON. LET YOU KNOW!
Snap on anvil is on the right side its the Narrower not As thick Anvil 8:10 @Tool Demos
I have tons on snap on and icon tools. I can say I have yet to break an icon ratchet. I’ve broke two snap on ratchets this year. They are 20 years old so it is to be expected. Had a rebuild kit dropped in both and they are as good as new
I just snapped a Snap On wrench two days ago. They all break if you pull hard enough.
I had my first use of a icon this weekend that was well used at a shop. It was junk. lol. The mechanic said it was crap too. lol. That was enough for me on the ratchets.
Um? You gotta be a sissy little ...
Thanks for confirming that snap on is over priced junk. I’ll be buying icon from now on thanks!
@@MrLocomechanic you can’t afford it. To say it’s overpriced when your not in the trades says it all.
I don't wrench every day. But I'm also hard on my tools. Owning a 89' burb. I m going with icon. Great prices. So far icon has had great reviews on y.t. even from some pros. If I wrenched everyday. Maybe snap on. But even that would still be pushing it. I've Bae the hell out of my craftsman too. Still wrenching.
There’s a review of a Koken ratchet coming next week. Spoiler: it’s reasonably priced and very high quality. I’ve been using it for a few weeks now, I like it a lot.
@@ToolDemos savvy. I'll check it out. Thank you.
those kokens are nice i dont mind budget ratchets but i wont use cheap sockets at work. using snap on sockets has cut down on rounded bolts massively, also cheap sockets have a poor internal shoulder specially the 1/2 drive deeps.
Icon is a lot softer then the snap on Anvil 13:07
Most of my tools are Craftsman and are about 30 to 40 years old.. I'm not a mechanic, but I do wrench on my own cars. I've only had 2 sockets crack. One of them was in the last few years in the era where simple replacement is not possibe. I miss perusing the tool sectiion at Sears. I also miss vibrant malls to spend time at. 😢
I’m with you. That was an experience that you cannot get by browsing online.
Interesting Comparison even though 90 vs 72 tooth designs I still like the snappy a bit more
I’m with ya 🇺🇸
@@ToolDemos snappy is easier to get fixed And Harbir freight exchange system sucks it all depends on if you get a Nice rep or a jerk most harbor freight stores around me will argue with you and give you every excuse on why they won't Exchange your Tool
I was looking at the icon tools the other day at harbor freight… They look like good quality for the price.
Yeah they do
Snap-On is probably a better tool.. but... It's not $100 better.
Retired ASE certified tech with 40 plus years experience, I have used many different brands of ratchets over the years but the quality of the Snap On ratchets is way better than anything else in my opinion
Agreed
Snap-on is better but is it 3 times better? You could own 3 Icon ratchets for what one Snap-on costs. Value is an important part of the equation. Money is a factor. We don't all have unlimited funds. Performance wise Snap-on is second to none but they need to work on brand value some. It is a competitive world. Otherwise Harbor Freight will eat their lunch.
I bought my first ratchet (SK) from a pawn shop with the idea when it wore out I would be better off financially and be able to buy a better one. I do not like the round twisty switch in the head and want a lever switch. Can’t wait to get my new one when this one dies. I bought the SK IN 1976 and it won’t die.
Wow!
I have some pretty old SK tools. SK is a solid brand.
One other difference is the depth, front to back of pawls & anvils, essentially the contact area.
Right
Being that the icon has finer teeth it actually is stronger with more teeth like that than the snap-on with deeper grooves with less teeth.
I knew you were joking because I’ve been looking at snapon for 65 years
Harbor freight has been copying the designs of snap on tools for a while now. This is the latest attempt I think.
How did you mix them up there? I saw the different plate as soon as you started. Anyone working with snap-on tools would have saw that coming.
Great comparison Steve, there are definitely differences that I think go in favor of the Snap-on, but are the differences worth the additional $85? I say yes, but that's me and everyone else will have to make that decision for themselves. Thanks for another awesome video dude!
I appreciate it Jude.
I have to agree I’ve had an f80 for about 8 years and have used abused and loved that thing.
$85 difference id probably get the snap on.... unfortunately it's more like a $300++ difference.
If you're on the pit crew at Indy then sure go for the best. Everyone else I think can afford to step down a rung in performance though. You will have the time to grab the right tool for the job. Being as your success and failure isn't being measured in thousandths of a second.
How does $85 help you tighten or loosen a nut or bolt? I'm genuinely curious
The snap on has 6 teeth contact on the paws because it had larger teeth at only 72 vs 90. Also the machining on icon is fine becsuse it looks like it’s by design if u look closely it’s got horizontal grooves
I'm buying the ICON. Great video!
Hope you enjoy it!
Snap on certainly feels better in the hand, that FL80 and all of the variants are probably the best 3/8 on the market. However, nearly $200 is, well it's just that and there's one heck of an argument to be made for gearwrench or icon simply because they both feel really good and they're about 25% of the money versus snap-on. Decision gets even harder if we start talking about tool boxes. Those icon boxes are the best value on the market. Oh before I forget, on the snap-on, one of the best parts is that replaceable soft handle. Costs you about 10 bucks to switch it out when it gets beat up
I gotta admit, HF is going much higher quality these days.
@@ToolDemos HF is much higher priced these days too. I miss the days when I could get a wrench set made in India for a few bucks.
They look similar but the materials, workmanship and warranties are completely different. Yes, I've broken teeth on my 50 year old 1/4" SnapOn ratchet, but SnapOn replaced the insides for free. The 3/8" ratchet has never given me any problems of any kind.
Harbor Freight doesn’t replace the gears (snap on uses inferior replacement gears compared to the original), they hand you an entire new ratchet. That includes their, absolutely fantastic, Icon line.
I work on cars professionally, my 3/8” icon ratchet is better than my 3/8” snap on one and it costs 1/3 the price. My Pittsburgh 1/4” flex head, is just as good as the snap on 1/4” flex head (which I also own), that it copies.
Edit: I bought the Pittsburg one as a backup because I had to wait a week for snap on to show up, and I couldn’t believe how great it was for a $15 ratchet, especially compared to the $120 that the snap on one cost me.
I consider the HF warranty to be superior to Snap-On's. Unlike the Snap-On guy, HF never complains about having to replace a broken tool and I can warrant it any day of the week without having to wait for the rep to come by.
With that said, if I didn't live conveniently close to a Harbor Freight store or had to rely on my tools for the long haul, I'd choose Snap-On or one of the other Big Three (Matco, Mac).
Who in the hell ever said that ICON was equivalent to Snap On??? The Snap on is 2x the price. I own snap on. They aren’t the best, KOKEN is by a MILE. Japanese make better stuff than us bone head Americans. Just true. But for the everyday shade tree icon is fine.
Harbor Freight says Icon is equivalent to Snap On. I just wanted to give a closer look.
yea, love my new Kokens
Snap-on is actually three times the price but carry on.
Good job Steve you know what they say imitation is the lowest form of flattery and harbor is the most unoriginal tool buisness around!! Lol
You got that right.
Thank you for making the comparison video. Icon copied the profile of Snap On. The inner workings are different. My guess is that Snap On's patent for the ratchet shape has long been expired. The Icon looks to be a good ratchet for $35. If it fails it can be exchanged for a new one.
I appreciate ya. No doubt the Icon offers a great value.
Seriously, you're counting the 0.01" height difference on a flexible component as an objective victory, with the same value as a 72 vs 90 tooth difference?
Point taken. I did try to be as fair as I could be.
For those of us who are not using tools professionally or using them daily, buying some of these brands that don't come with the name rec is the way to go.
No doubt
Just bought the new 1/4 inch 80 tooth ratchet thr72 off the truck, there is too much side to side play on the anvil. With the thicker comfort grip you can't even tell if you're applying too much side force on the ratchet.
That’s something I haven’t thought of.
As a mechanic, it's Icon all day long compared to an overpriced Snap-On.
It's a money racket. Stop paying the help and see how many keep showing up to work.
As a snap on guy, I am impressed by the icon ratchets but you buy a snap on tool you have a tool for life with the warranty, have to wait and see if icon is as good on their warranty as snap on is
Icon will be out of business soon or later
if you stop buying, snappy stops warrantying
@@bytesysedSnap-on hand tools come with a lifetime warranty. They've been around 100 years, will probably be around for a while more.
Harbor Freight's warranty is legendary. It really is no questions asked. You walk in with a busted tool and you walk out with a new one. Heck before they had stores all over the place I called them on the phone and they shipped me out a new tool. That was 30 years ago. How long are you planning on waiting?
If you make your living with Snap On tools, and you break one, do you really have a week to wait for the truck to come around to hopefully have one in stock? Or do you drive to HF the same day for the free replacement and you are back to work?
Good point
I can’t speak for everyone else but my rep will come same day and replace and if he doesn’t have the exact tool he loans a similar tool free of charge, he’s never been out of stock with ratchets and sockets and hand tools and none of my tools have ever broken in my 4 years of being a diesel tech for a cummins shop
Nice comparison, thanks for sharing
Thanks Tony.
I've owned a job shop for 40 years I have large pieces of equipment, a lot of hand tools and power tools . With CNC equipment and technology the way it is. It is. Icons are really good and there's a lot of other good tools out there. All I know is anyone that is still buying snap-on is dumb.
You really need to compare the Rockwell hardness test on the pawls and ratchet wheels. I'm going to guess the Snap-on is made of much harder tool steel...
You’re probably right
I will let you in on a little secret. The secret the secret the secret is icon, hired one of the engineers that had worked at Snap on and paid him a lot more money to design tools for Harbor freight that would compete with Snap on, so you can understand the similarities. There are between Snap on an icon because they were designed by a former Snap on engineer, the problem is. He has to make small subtle design changes in order to be able to hold the patent for Harbor freight and avoid copyright infringement, other otherwise, if he built exactly the same way as the Snap on even right down to the hardness, the depth of the teeth Snap on consume icon into oblivion. That's why if you take a look. There are very subtle small changes. But here's the real fun fact. I do know somebody that works for Snap on and Snap on tools are all made at the same factory that makes icon Snap on no longer manufactured their tools in the United States. Their manufactured in China under a contract for Snap and having said that, I will say to any of you who are going to buy tools for mechanic use. Don't buy Snap on. I fell into that trap. And I was a professional automotive mechanic for 34 years. Cost in marine mechanic as well. Aviation mechanic work, motorcycle mechanic work and heavy equipment diesel mechanic. So I have covered it all. And I do know what I am talking A bout spent years wasting a lot of money on Snap on Mac matco Cornwell all of them. On The tool trucks even I could tell you that had I known what I know now back then if icon had existed I would have bought icon exclusively and saved a hell of a lot of money over the years.
Without having extremely high tool payments.
That's a straight up false statement you made. Snap-on manufactures their own tools in the USA in Wisconsin, Tennessee, boxes in Iowa. Where did you get your false info from. HF and Snap-on have no relation or correlation with each other. You sound like a cheapwad who is mad having overspent on tools and wants to vent out.
@@christianthomle4426 that’s straight up false info snap on and hf has no relation or correlation with each other there’s no collusion. Snap-on is made in the USA like Wisconsin, Tennessee, and boxes in Iowa. quit misleading people into saying that HF and snapon is the same.
Sounds like you fell into the tool loan trap. That doesn't mean snap on isn't great it means u made poor decisions. I've never taken a loan for a single socket and have zero complaints about snap on. Also I have broken many tools they have replaced multiple times. That has paid itself off many times. Buy once cry once just dont put urself in a bad spot taking ridiculous loans. Auto companies will bankrupt you if you listen to the sales guy. Same thing here doesn't relate to quality or value of the tools. Not saying don't buy cheap to get by but like I previously stated the warranty alone is worth the value wich you WILL break tools over the years and don't have to buy again
@@lucebruno644almost every guy working in a shop owes money to the truck...
This is quite the fairytale.
The teeth typically don't break in snap-on ratchets. The square shears off.
Yup, seen that.
Interesting taredown & comparison ..Thanks Steve..good job..👍
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks.
Anyone that says that Snapon is a status symbol, most likely does not use tools every day, i have purchased every company sockets and tools, snapon last a lot longer and are more durable, at the end of the day shade tree mechanics do not need snapon, but when you wear out a matco socket every month, then going to a snapon that wili last a year or more make s big difference,
If you’re wearing out a socket every month you should consider getting into a different trade.
@@Volksoner619 I did, for our sockets we use all day lone like the 7/16 and the 5/16 we went to a Snapon, the Matco Sockets just dont cut it they are the same as Home Depot or Lowes, some sockets only get used once ever other year, and then the 7/16 gets used on Rod Bolts all day long.
the spring on the snap on is for check ball detent not so much for parts retention
Good catch
Who will be around to warrant there tools
Snapon has been a proven leader
Harbor Freight is about 10 times bigger than Snap-on is. Look how Sears went. 30 years ago I'd have never seen them folding up.
Hello again Steve
Thank you for another Great Video 👍Hello again Steve, you are most welcome ☺️
Great to see you again George, thank you.
Project Farm did a video comparing various ratchets. The tooth number often didn't make that much difference.
Good point.
Less teeth means that they can be milled into the Anvil deeper. 90 teeth only have a limited amount of space and thus can't be "deeper". It's all about how the pawl grabs the Anvil for Strength...
I would no doubt prefer a snap on ratchet. But $50 for a 3/8" flex head ratchet. If you got multiple tool boxes or want something to throw in the truck tool kit or keep in a car or whatever. The icons are pretty hard to beat.
One thought to add to this, the harder the anvil the more prone it is to shearing in a stress load applied to it. So assuming one tool will wear out faster becuase of lack of hardness, it may not break as easy when anvil hits its limits. If both tools have lifetime warranty, snap on will be breaking anvils when pushed after being used with some hours on the tool, the icon will just wear out and may have problems like old school craftsman where it wolnt hold direction on the paw selector when loaded. Icon would be simply worn out and then other is broken in a manor that could be related to abuse. If your using cheater bars, they make breaker bars in different drive sizes. They will both break if you use a cheater bar. Most fasteners shouldnt be torqued over a 100ft lbs with a 3/8 drive even though ANSI specs 150 ft lbs. Thats just poor engineering if you have a faster only acessible by a 3/8 or smaller drive that requires more torque than the said 100 ft lbs. Just my 2 cents
I don’t disagree. The upside for Snap On is you can rebuild the ratchet. Icon gets fully replaced.
@@ToolDemos I'm not sure why the ability to be rebuilt is an upside for Snap On. Let's say you're in the middle of a project and your ratchet breaks. Which would you prefer, having to wait until the ratchet is repaired or being able to walk out of the store with a brand new ratchet? I'm not sure how long it takes to get a Snap On tool rebuilt, but I assume it takes more time than it would for me to drive to my local HF store. Of course, not everyone has a local HF store. For some, the nearest store might be hours away. Even then, most likely you could still be back at work with your brand new Icon ratchet before you've received your rebuilt Snap On.
@@DKWalser you’re right, tossing the old one out is more convenient. Big picture, I like the idea of repairing what you have.
@@DKWalser as a mechanic i run snap on at work and have doubles just in case but the tool truck keeps the parts to rebuild ratchets in stock on the truck so its ten minutes max to rebuild. as far as cheap ratchets for home i actually use kobolt 90tooth flex heads, smooth, decently strong, and lifetime warranty.
but hows that an upside really unless you just want to keep your old ratchet for sentimental value?@@ToolDemos
I think there is a bit of discrepancy for the tooth engagement. 6 larger tooth pawl engaged on 72 tooth main anvil gear. Will likely be stronger than the smaller shallow 90 tooth main anvil gear with 7 tooth pawl engagement. I could be wrong but I believe the engagement is based on tooth percentage and contact patch. This would increase the contact patch with Snapon including the 2 piece pawl in Snapon which allows more articulation into increase better tooth to tooth engagement. This also amplifies with tooth design of Snapon. Again I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.
I think the switch and pawl mechanism on Snap On ratchets are highly underrated. That could be a whole video unto itself.
I'm in the surface area camp, given that the material is hardened sufficiently. The 72 tooth design looks chunkier, but a fine thread screw is stronger than a coarse thread and it seems to me like the same physics are at play. Who knows though, I'd be curious to see a side by side of that.
"Snap on makes me happy". So true.
And makes your wife unhappy.
The og harbor freight ratchets are ok. I just can’t stand the direction switch is reversed. I’m glad the icon is correct.
It definitely has that going for it.
Yeah I can't abide by reversed reversing switches myself. When I get used to something I can't handle change.
I have snap on tools that are many decades old. I know they were use hard and still work great. I believe it’s because of the steel.
Icon proudly utilizes Chinesium. I believe it’s number 137 on the Chinese periodic table.
Lol
Icon is made in Taiwan. So not mainland China. You'd better figure out the difference.
@@1pcfred thank you for such insight into my transgression regarding cheap knives. I shall make sincere efforts to correct such egregious accusations in the future. Earth shattering topics demand more respect.
@@kek148 knives? Where were they mentioned? You have knives made by Snap-on? I did not know Snap-on produced knives.
@@1pcfred I like eggs.
today bought a bunch of icon ratchets and sockets and kid at register got 20off for me on every item win win for me!
Wow! That’s a win.
So you're comparing an older style ratchet to a newer style ratchet makes sense honestly I've had both of them and the snap-on is so much better and way way more reliable Yes icon does have lifetime warranty however you're warranting that ratchet more times than one should for a tool
The Icon won this comparison by far! As you showed they are very very close in quality. Now, let's look at warranty and ease of warranty. For the Icon, return to any HF store no questions asked. For the Snap On people have had issues if they're not in the mechanic industry. You may not be able to get a warranty done on the Snap On. Now, let's address the 800 lb Gorilla. A $35 Icon compared to what, a $145 Snap On? That alone makes the Icon soank the Snap On when comparing the two. Based on comparisons like this Icon should be converting mechanics and honeowners to Icon over Snap On. The value just isn't there with Snap On. But then again, was it ever?
I’d say for professional use - in the past - Snap On was definitely the way to go. Now, the ProSumer brands are stepping up the quality and are very competitive with the professional stuff.
All y'all in the comments are just rich snap-on fanboys. I run my entire (successful for over 15 yrs) shop with husky tools. They hardly ever fail us and when they do, we skip over to HD to grab a new one. All at 1/10 of the price.
I like this video good info and good to see the different points of both im a dealer tech and have more rachets and 1/2 drive impacts than any of my co workers but I have older snap on rachets I've never had to warranty but the price point is higher icon I think is great for a guy just starting out or for someone that wants nicer than husky or kobalt
Thanks, I agree.
I’d be willing to bet snap on are milled, but that icon anvils are that “powdered metal” type of manufacturing.. can’t recall the actual name off hand but that’s at least a solid descriptor.. more than enough to google for the curious
Very likely
The word you're looking for is, sintered. With sintering you can actually make alloys that couldn't normally exist otherwise. You can also sinter absolute crap too. It all depends on how you do it.
I have both Icon and Snap On, and the SO ratchets aren't clear winners - they're both really great ratchets. The 3rd-place for me is a pretty-distant SK LP90...
Yeah, I miss SK.
i saw the thick ass edges in the first 2 seconds and i already knew which one was the snap on without seeing a logo
You cam buy a snap on rebuild kit and install it on the snap on
True. Icon is just a throwaway.
I've got over 30K in SnapOn stuff and love it, but I gotta admit, that Icon stuff is tough to beat for the price. Within the last year I bought an Icon 1/2" ratchet and broke it (my fault), walked into harbor freight without receipt and they just said "Refund or exchange?" Then told me to go grab a new one off the shelf. I also broke my Snapon 1/2" (my fault) and dealer put in a parts kit which I was OK with, but my Snapon1/2" breaker bar that failed and the dealer simply replaced the anvil, was a bit disappointing for what I've spent and knowing if the knuckle fails and break my knuckles open, I'm gonna be pissed. Hard to tell anymore where a lot of this stuff is made and BS "blue point" and stanley buying mac , both years ago, didn't help.
I can see where an exchange is more convenient.
Trusting the metalurgy of any supplier who sells steels to the purchaser of products to be made for horrible Freight is - - well they can't be trusted. There will be hot spots poorly mixed areas low quality additions abd sloppy heat treat - - everything is done on the cheap. So just because it 's all pink and sparkly is no indicator of quality.
Snap On quality has taken a dive lately
I prefer Craftsman tools from the 70s and 80s
Japan smelts more steel than the USA does now and I bet Snap-on is getting imported steel today. You'd better get with the times and smell the coffee. Wake up! In fact there was a big controversy about Snap-on using mainland China anvils in their ratchets. For a bit they took the USA mark off their tools too. They were testing the waters.
The icon may not be the same but you can get a bahco ratchet with same part number as snap on (bahco is a snap on company) for half the price
Good suggestion.
And then you can get Williams USA made sockets to go along with it for a third of the price of the snap-on ones they're the same sockets made on the same line in the United States
@@darrenporschWhich manufacturing site makes both the Snap-on and Williams ratchets?
@@j_taylor they're all made in Taichung City Taiwan. All they do at the US plant is drink beer all day and unload the tools off the dock.
the snap on teeth are also deeper and more defined better grip when applying torque.... tbh i hate ratchets with soo many teeth they usually messed up mid motion....and switch the other direction and bind up.. havent found a good 1/4 ratchet yet....
That does suck
years ago I made the mistake of stepping into a snap on van I stepped out stint🙂
One more note about Snapon on the exterior (aside from the obvious grip handle), noticed just before he starts taking them apart, is that the Snapon is just a bit LONGER. Which means you can get just a bit more LEVERAGE. Physics matters. Enough to warrant the COST difference? That's a whole different question, and since I'm not a mechanic and just a random dipstick on the internet, I don't really have a valid opinion.
I'm guessing he used the Snappy he had that was the same drive size to illustrate the guts. I wouldn't doubt they make one with a similar all metal shorter handle that would be equivalent to the Icon. Firgure all Icon tools are targeted torwards specific SO's for marketing $ comparisons.
If I want more leverage I'll use a longer handle tool. Ratchet drives are not breaker bars. Really torque is not usually the correct solution to frozen fasteners. You bust enough hardware and you might just figure that out someday.
I would suggest that the Snap On is a much higher grade steel. Usually Harbor Freight tools are usually made with Lower grade steel, and if you borrow $140 Snap On add imagine that the Snap On is made out of a higher grade hardened steel probably D2 carbon steel. And I’m talking about the interior gears of the Snap On wrench, the rest of the Snap On wrenches also made out of a higher grade of steel than the icon wrench.
There’s a reason why you pay $100 more money for the tools that come off the truck then you do for the cheap shit at Harbor Freight
You’re not wrong.
sorry sir , you pay $100 more because there is 4 layers of mark up on that wrench. and every layer wants in your pocket. those wrenches are most likely made in the same factory from the same steel.
Harbor freight is garbage IMO
@@mikehenthorn1778Snap-on ratchets are made in the USA. Aren't the Icon ratchets made in Taiwan?
I agree that there is nothing wrong "paying a little more" if something is a little better or even if "it makes me feel good using it". 4 times as much? I'm a Chevrolet guy, if a new F150 cost $50,000 and a Chevrolet cost $200,000 but had a couple more options how would I justify that? Yes, I can afford Snap On with no problem.
Justify, probably not. But you don’t owe me anything, not even justification for what you buy.
@@ToolDemos Absolutly, You have every right to buy what you want. It's not what I would choose. Then again, I collect Mont Blanc ink pens, some would say that's stupid but it's my money and my choice if I want an ink pen that cost more than three Snap On ratchets. Some people may say that "Snap On thinks their stuff is made of gold", Hell, I have pens that are made of gold and iridium.