I think people just at times still can't get used to the fact that knocking them down is a level 4 early so you gotta play smarter not harder, that is why when premade have to face the Ginyu Force the strategies they at times would use against frieza or cell or buu don't work because the objective is keeping them alive for the longest time so jumping him and especially if the ginyu force can scout the others after the rush that is where they fall. but hey this is to handle the new meta. But still your gonna have to keep driving that hammer because people saying raider are op will never die down unless people get better skilled at the game.
I’ve played games with the Ginyu force raider (I don’t have him but I went against more ginyu force than any other raider, oh and keep in mind I’m on the Nintendo switch so the atmosphere there is a lot more different) and almost all those matches were losses (granted some of them I got jumped early, unfortunate timing or lack of coordination). The lack of coordination stung more cause I’ve ran into matches where survivors just simply REFUSE to give up the dragon balls and that ended up costing the victory.
@@BathDemo I was thinking more so scout units but I'd love it if they actually joined him in his melee combo even if they didn't do additional damage. Maybe the cell juniors would stack so you could send out three total, one at a time that way you could send three of them out in different directions
The one problem I have with Ginyu is that you can play perfectly against him and still get wiped. Happened to us last night and I can take a loss but when we all play perfectly and still lose it makes me upset. And I’m all for buffing raiders, they def need help
@@l33tspaniard Yeah? Well life is bullshit, also fuck Picard Kirk is best captain. My experience has been that it doesn't matter how good/perfect the team plays you're still gonna lose, all 7 survivors should not have to sweat their asses off while the Raider has a generally simple and good time.
"playing perfectly" isn't possible alone, the whole reason why the game's Community says "raiders/survivors are too weak or powerful", its a simple question of "did the survivors have proper communication and teamwork ?" the raider could be #1 raider in the world, a team of survivors that have good communication could easely beat him.
idk but i played about 15 matches with frieza and won like 9 then i played 10 matches with gynu and i still have not lost i still think he needs a small nerf or something
Its kinda hilarious cause guldo can use a cave to temporarily take cover recoome stun breaking skill is extremely deadly in a cave jiece and burter well not so much but since the first two levels they don't have to worry about caves
1:02:03 💀🤣 First off want to apologize for the last few comments I had made previously, my experiences haven't been fun in the slightest in solo que even when I do my best to try to direct the team on what to do, so I'm probably coming off heated by that. I do think though that Ginyu himself(not the squad) should be toned down slightly when he loses his team only because the snowballing that proceeds to happen even when you play as perfect as you can feels awful under some circumstances. I watched the video entirely from beginning to end and I really do like your outlook and get where you're coming from. I don't think the Ginyu force are op like I did before and I agree with you 100%, many players really need to adapt better overall. Very nice vid 👍
Even if you don't agree with my 100% or at all that's totally okay! There's definitely aspects of the Ginyu Force you can argue is op but to say he's brainless or an insta win is where I draw the line lol
Idk why I tried to melee you near Guru’s house as Vegeta but you actually gave me pressure at that moment when attacking me, if you saw I transformed near the start of the match as the Bulma and you even noticed it while streaming the game but I never attacked you. Reason for that was because I found a level 3 radar and went to hunt for dragon balls faster so that’s why I summoned so quickly, btw I picked A to summon at because it has a huge rock that protects the pedestal unlike C which was out in the open. GGs tho we had fun and you definitely are one of the hard raiders we fight!
I think I can summarize this pretty well. 'Raiders are OP' is more appropriate to the Ginyu force than any of the others right now because of people's experience with the PTS and the whole 'guaranteed lv4' thing. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees Ginyu was nutty on the PTS, but they got hit with one of the biggest raider nerfs I've actually seen on breakers. A guaranteed lv4 is a new concept as well and people relate the power of other lvl 4s to Ginyu which is wrong; Ginyu is a weak lvl4 by design. But the other big argument as to why people say Raider is OP is because their experience in the game. And you have to put yourself in the shoes of the single player and not the whole scope of the match. Very simply it takes a whole lot more to kill the raider than it does a survivor. As a single survivor, your game could be over in the first 30 seconds in an interaction that lasted 2. That is what leads to the mentality that raiders are OP. I understand there are 7 survivors, I am saying the personal experience can be much worse. It's also why new players will struggle more as survivor than as raider, although they may also win more games as survivor than raider because of team mate skill. And you get a divide in what people believe. The reality of the balance of the game is that both sides can overwhelm the other because of RNG and snowball mechanics. It just so happens that a coordinated team of survivors, or a team playing well with one another, can reduce the impact of RNG by (in full caps and italics) * A LOT *
I think the reason people say that you are raider biased is due to you just not immediately saying raider is op. You try to explain to people why raider is not op. I think the majority for players they do not play with groups and instead play solo. Playing solo is a lot harder than in a group. This causes people to think raider is op because it is harder to work efficiently solo
I don't fully agree here. I don't think they are overpowered or weak. Just super easy to play. I've pretty much never lost as the ginyu force even after their nerfs. I've gone up against decent survivors and they don't stand a chance. I've countered barrier IT as guldo and not wasting my super's away like other raider players do. A lot raider players are over confident and die easily. I've killed multiple guldo's for being over confident and killed them in 2 motionless kamehameha'a. When i play guldo, i don't get too close and try to play a bit defensively so I'll outlast the survivors. I can counter melee attacks by freezing time and then meleeing the survivors. Guldo passively searching is really good too. Now yes guldo will definitely die if he's jumped by multiple survivors but if you get in that situation then you misplayed and didn't get enough civilians and tried being way too offensive. Recoome is by far the best level 2 raider in the game. Recoome kick is a really really good alternative offensive option. Recoome mach attack is by far one of the best movement tools as a raider. Scouter is pretty good and bomber isn't bad either. Eraser gun is okay. I've seen recoome's absolutely snipe my teammates trying to summon shenron. But in most situations, its mid. Yes jumping can also work but again in most scenarios, you shouldn't end up getting jumped that early. You have a scouter to either pick off survivors quickly or get civilians. Jeice and burter is pretty good. Not the best but definitely not bad. I've shredded level 4's jeice and burter. The melee damage is huge especially if recoome is still alive up to that point. Yes burter assist can be very inconsistent but in some combat scenarios, he'll help you extremely well. Purple comet crash is basically vegeta's finish breaker super but better. And crusher ball is decent. You shouldn't really die as jeice and burter most of the time. You can get jumped but it would require a lot of survivors going at you at the same time. Otherwise well timed vanishes and ki blasts/supers will help you outlast and down those survivors. Ginyu is pretty good for a level 4. He has recoome to help out with melee attacks and since ginyu is level 4, only a survivor level 4 can stop those melee attacks. Power level boost is decent. Strong jersey is basically just recoome kick so you have a good alternative offensive option. And ginyu force buff's are a decent addition. Milky cannon+jeice and burter is still pretty good. Not as good as the PTS version of it but definitely a good super. Milky cannon alone is garbage. Body change is really good. It will insta down a level 4. It is avoidable but if you time it well when a survivor is vulnerable, they won't be able to avoid it. Its also funny to use it on the last survivor. If you play well, you can win nearly every match as a the ginyu force. Maybe not all the time against pre mades but you should still be able to win a good amount of your matches as the ginyu force. Just don't let raider overconfidence get to you. Otherwise you'll just get shredded by motionless kamehameha'a.
@@ironcane yes that it true. If you misplay, yes you can get punished badly. But if you play your cards right, you can pull off a win. I try to play the raider as if like i was playing as a level 4 survivor. I try vanishing constantly and let the survivors waste their d change. I don't play too offensively unless ik the survivor is either bad or vulnerable. If multiple are fighting me, i don't play offensively at all, i try being defensive cause ik once their d change is gone, they're done for. I also sometimes camp bodies and area's. But i don't try doing it too much cause that can lead to a misplay. I played buu pre spopovich buff (the buff being that spopovich's health doesn't carry over to buu) and i fought some really really good pre mades. They whooped my spopovich but couldn't stop me from getting buu. They jumped me as fat buu when i had less than 40% health, i lived, they jumped me as super buu, i lived and then killed everyone. That's how i learned how to not be overconfident as a raider. Now i know how to play as a raider pretty well. I also try to cook up the STM as quickly as possible. If shenron is available to the survivors, if i ain't close enough, im destroying the STM even if it causes the others to escape. Its not like they got a real win out of the match anyways. ETM is not a real win. If i know that survivors have a chance of winning, im immediately taking that chance away. Cause I've gotten a really good laugh when overconfident raiders lose because they got greedy.
havent played much this season but as far as i see it completely depends on how quick survivors react and beat the smallfry up, a huge part of the power comes from alive Force Members got a level 2 Buu W 1-2 days ago, Cave saved my damn Bubblegum. they got the Lv 4 out and i still somehow managed to pull it off
I still think Solo Q is terrible against Ginyu, I've seen high level teams get wiped by low level Ginyu Force cuz they aren't working together. Also the worst thing is pretty much getting a guaranteed level 4 if you get your ass handed to you. Most of my Ginyu matches I win more too compared to my surv matches due to playing Solo Q mostly. Jeice and Burter shred.
@@ironcane agree. its the same thing in other horror games like this, the prime example being dead by daylight. what people often miss is that communication is the key to winning almost ANY game with a team philosophy, horror or shooters or whatever else. communication is ALWAYS going to be the most powerful thing in a game 99% of the time hacking aside. : )
Solo Que is terrible in general a pre-made team is a requirement if you want to have any fun. I'd bet money that if you looked at just solo Que statistics Raiders win 70% - 80% of matches it truly is THAT bad.
To be honest I play ginyu as raider alot and only lose to tryhard level and premade because this season 3 survivors skill are too good and is not easy to down 7 players who are good in this game and premade find the keys way too fast even I am good at raider I will know I lost to premade instantly before match starts
My argument has always been random’s that are LV.100 and above play like they just bought the game.....I seen these same levels get recked by a LV.1 raider.....🤨🤨🤨 and that’s why I would say to dumb down the raider for survivors to catch up.
I think a lot of people call new stuff OP for a variety of reasons that aren't really associated with game balance, namely the trend in Anime UA-cam to call new releases "OP" to get clicks on their videos.
I dont think raider is op, i think survivor is way better than raider. And in some ways, more fun. And im saying this is a raider main who does get wins. But I also think ginyu is extremely op and unfun to play against. He borderline makes solo queue unplayable because they have anything you could ever want. At least 1 great super per stage, all stages have scouter (which i think is great tracking). All stages have great ki blasts except guldo (and even then guldo has a very high capacity to get downs). Recoome is one of the best lvl 2s, if not the best. Jeice is arguably the best lvl 3 that isnt super buu. And then ginyu is still as good as frieza, even without all the raiders alive. The way to beat ginyu is rng dependent because it basically requires every person to find power keys, radars, dragon balls, and also for the raider to not find you quickly. You dont have to deal with that for every other raider. With buu, lvl 3 is really strong but its really easy to keep his levels low. With cell, lvl 2 and lvl 3 are really bad at combat. With frieza, hes really strong, but definitely not unbeatable because he lacks real tracking. With saiyans, you dont have to kill every member like you have to do with ginyu. You can just kill nappa, and even then you dont actually need to. Nothing i said even takes into account the possibility that the ginyu player might just be good at the game and can escape jumpings or stall out dragon changes. Overall I think ginyu is just extremely egregious and beating him consistently is way too difficult. I dont think its a good thing that ginyu is balanced around “oh well premades exist and he can beat them”
They're not over powered I agree but I do feel that in time when playing with randoms a whole lot would run away instead of helping out, including a level 3!! while the raider was level 2!! like.. it's the new meta now, get dragon change, run away. LOL xD remind you!! with randoms. it's easier to play games with people that you know, know what they're doing than sometimes getting new players from raider or survival.
100% but my argument is that its always more difficult to fight raiders without a team, this isn't exclusive to the Ginyu Force. And if anything, it'll force players to play as a team to adapt
I wanna say that stack plays well but I just have so little respect for players who are level 160 STILL relying on IT/EF. Like... it's just such a boring way to play, sucks to play against, it doesn't feel good to use yourself. There are more fun skills and other ways to play. I just can't respect it because I've had IT/EF and I have never once felt the need to use it even when bike was good. Boo survivors boo. If you gonna no life a game, have some fun with it don't play lame every single game.
Ginyu coupled with the Knockback Gauge is extremely overtuned. Without a level 4, it's almost impossible to get Ginyu off of the stm. And considering that no matter how well the raider plays, Ginyu is bound to come out...
@@l33tspaniard He can outlast all of those if the STM isn't close to completion. A smart raider is not going to just wait until the thing is almost finished to start destroying it.
Funny how almost nobody knows about this strat yet, just put your body ontop of the stm and make them use all their resources on you until you get ginyu, all the while spamming break. only time it won’t work is when a lvl 4 is up but if you die ontop of the ball you had ppl can’t pick it up.
You HAVE to admit he's the strongest raider ATLEAST. 3 lives, power charger each level, defensive skill on his level 1. Insane getaway skills (that you didn't use) on his level 2. Incredible supers on his level 3. And free level 4 with potentially 2 1-shot supers. He's busted, you just got busted up.
Ginyu Force has awful STM defense outside of Ginyu's powered up milky canon, so good teams will just bust up guldo and key rush while hoarding cooldown drinks, which is even worse now that head start drink is a thing, and force you to try and stop the machine with Recoome and J&B. They have no instant down outside of body change since Unconscious control is very effective against a lot of the Ginyu Force supers. They lose to excessive stun/escape/DC teams with good key rush like every other raider. The survivor teams just don't have the ridiculous margin of error that they do against the other raiders. I think people are just too used to so many of the raiders being garbage for so long that having to actually think a little with Ginyu is making everybody panic.
Honestly the idea of these games is that killer is od otherwise how would you even expect the raider to win get what your trying to say but if you need a whole team of 7 people to beat 1 then that means the one is od inherently or the game wouldn't be a game and we wouldn't be clamoring for raider queue
raiders are inherently op in 1 VS 1 scenarios, this a team-based game, when playing as a team raiders are not op. The reason why i say raiders and Ginyu is not op is because those who do not play as a team will play into the raiders strengths getting the impression that they are too strong when they aren't supposed to be soloing the raider in the first place
@@ironcane never said they should solo lol obviously but then this çrusade about raiders not being od makes no sense brotha one cuz survivor lvs matter and not everyone has a premade who are all lv100 + with the abilities that are meta and two because them needing to use team work means that the raiders ability to wipe is the depending factor on whether you can win as survivors if I waste all your dragon changes and destroy all soda machines your at my mercy then and it doesn't matter your skill I have to fumble to lose
well if the raider wastes all the dragon changes of the survivors they are just playing well and the survivors aren't playing so hot, if the raider wastes everyone's change and no one is planting keys, stealing balls, or dealing damage then yes these changes are wasted. Also survivor level doesn't always equal skill, same thing with raider level. You also don't need meta abilities to do well. My build consists of a majority of f2p actives with IT being the only gacha active I have equipped. The thing is a raider can really only focus on one survivor at a time so say in the scenario you described where all changes were wasted, its possible for six people to escape with one person being the sacrifice. Here survivors can lick their wounds and find keys, dragon balls, sodas, civis, etc. And then potentially rez the downed survivor depending on the situation.
@@ironcane see I agree with a lot here but the survivor level and abilities thing just isn’t true at all lv doesn’t mean that persons not good but it does affect the trust a team has in them hell you’ve said it before you don’t really trust their knowledge of the game if their not above a lv 100 that causes people who would usually stay to fight to leave and abandon ship before it’s sank and me personally can’t consider etm a win it’s a bow out at best been playing this game since the beta and at first etm wins are fine but if ima play a game this style when my objective becomes escape rather than win I’d rather just play dbd or evo and I think most of the community thinks like that
and this is why they are cheaters cause there fast lvl ups, fast key findings, fast dragon balls hunting, and fast keep placing, these cheaters needs to be reported one way or another!
You’re just being too nice as a raider and not destroying the STM right away ma man. Get at least one ball and camp the shit out of the last area. They will have to use all the resources to get the last key done. When the STM is up, they will have no DC to stop you from destroying the STM. I literally just won a match today using this method and I didn’t even have one single DB on me. They killed my Guldo and found all the keys in around 3 mins. Then I went straight to camp the last area. They summoned Shenron but I managed to do damages on the lvl4 and wasted most of their DC before Reccome died. I turned the table using the duos. Most of the survivors were out of DC so the lvl4 is a free meat for me. Even if they get the supply and kill the duos, I still have one extra life and they will not have more resources to stop my lvl4. The point is you should stall as long as possible on each lvls. They will not have the resources to stop you simply becoz you have one extra life. Imo other members can stay the same but Ginyu needs to be punish harder if any members were defeated
They are op, 4 different hp barre. If you don't kill jayce and burtur ginuy can one shot lv with one first skill or body change. Actually the only way to counter for kill ginuy is rush power key. Play with passive for reload active and energy for each cheast open. And when get lv1 use sayan pod or instant transmission for go fight raider each lv and hope Ally come to help. If they don't I don't care die because if you play safe vs ginuy squad you just gonna lose. But if raider know the map you can do nothing, because for example every time my guildo enf farm in 40sor 80s depend where I spawn
if you watch my final match you'll see that key rushing is not the only way to beat the Ginyu Force, hell the first match I had against the premade they didn't key rush either and I still lost. Key rushing is effective, but its not always the be all end all
4 HP bars but they're extremely brittle. Legit you can down Guldo with two supers and Recoome isn't that much better at tanking hits. Literally just stun lock them, charge a genkidama and even Jeice and Burter can say goodbye to their HP. And body change can only be used ONCE, after it lands it's gone and Ginyu loses his scouter. But even then unless you've killed enough of the members or activated STM by that time you can't really complain about Ginyu steamrolling you.
@@kutaoizumi4189yes but only if guild chase player. Like I say if raider know the map he can get lv2 before almost get lv1. And almost time if they chase me I just don't care and go search civil and ki blast survivor if they come try cancel kill. And recoom is strong for tunnel survivor because if he go away you can use the skill for chase him and if hit you can chain with active skill kick for hit before he can barrier. And if survivor fight together you can just fly away, found guildo and wait around him for freeze survivor if they come to fight. Lv3 is can one shot survivor lv3 if melee can negate dmg with purple comet. Ginyu squad is the most easiest raider because get for reason already explain
@@ironcaneyes I know I already kill ginyu force also for each lv but for that you need your team come help to fight but almost of time for exemple I use instant transmission or sayan pod for save on Ally. And finally he run away and let me 1vs1 raider. This is what happened in 80% games. And I talk for kill ginyu not for win with time machine. For time machine the most important is kill jayce for ginyu can't spam the skill combo. Because this one is op you can kill one player try call shenron. You don't need lock you look the direction and use the skill. For that now vs ginyu squad I play aggressive when I can transform, if I die because no follow I don't car like I say before because if they don't come for fight in early it sure they gonna do nothing later or feed. And for fight correctly is important to use melee skill, like that also if under lv you can black the raider in the animation or he gonna use his cleanse and if he do your ally with same lv can go melee. Yes gi'yu force can be defeat but you need a lot more try hard than for fight other raider
I’m sorry but they need to be toned down a bit. I legit haven’t lost a single match with Ginyu and I’m currently on a 23 game winning streak with him. There were matches where I should’ve lost and still won. Ginyu is extremely fun but he’s literally a guaranteed win if you pick him.
Ironcane summoned a clone to play for him so he can explains his thoughts to the fullest. Respect
shadow clone jutsu!
i wanna see ironcane cane vs ironcane to see which one is superior
I thought nerdcane was a different person
@@Ahappysandwich I'm goona be completely honest...Ironcane would win
I think people just at times still can't get used to the fact that knocking them down is a level 4 early so you gotta play smarter not harder, that is why when premade have to face the Ginyu Force the strategies they at times would use against frieza or cell or buu don't work because the objective is keeping them alive for the longest time so jumping him and especially if the ginyu force can scout the others after the rush that is where they fall. but hey this is to handle the new meta. But still your gonna have to keep driving that hammer because people saying raider are op will never die down unless people get better skilled at the game.
Wait till Francisco sees this one 😆
I’ve played games with the Ginyu force raider (I don’t have him but I went against more ginyu force than any other raider, oh and keep in mind I’m on the Nintendo switch so the atmosphere there is a lot more different) and almost all those matches were losses (granted some of them I got jumped early, unfortunate timing or lack of coordination). The lack of coordination stung more cause I’ve ran into matches where survivors just simply REFUSE to give up the dragon balls and that ended up costing the victory.
Would like it if they added cell juniors to perfect cells kit
He'd actually be good...would they work like saibamen or scouting units like dedoria and burter?
@@BathDemo I was thinking more so scout units but I'd love it if they actually joined him in his melee combo even if they didn't do additional damage. Maybe the cell juniors would stack so you could send out three total, one at a time that way you could send three of them out in different directions
@@turqoisecorn6333 So they work as scouts but appear when your hitting someone like recoome? interesting.
The one problem I have with Ginyu is that you can play perfectly against him and still get wiped. Happened to us last night and I can take a loss but when we all play perfectly and still lose it makes me upset. And I’m all for buffing raiders, they def need help
well it depends on the game, because in the matches we had we fumbled defending the STM at times
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
@@l33tspaniard Yeah? Well life is bullshit, also fuck Picard Kirk is best captain. My experience has been that it doesn't matter how good/perfect the team plays you're still gonna lose, all 7 survivors should not have to sweat their asses off while the Raider has a generally simple and good time.
Ginyu forcé is to OP
"playing perfectly" isn't possible alone, the whole reason why the game's Community says "raiders/survivors are too weak or powerful", its a simple question of "did the survivors have proper communication and teamwork ?"
the raider could be #1 raider in the world, a team of survivors that have good communication could easely beat him.
idk but i played about 15 matches with frieza and won like 9 then i played 10 matches with gynu and i still have not lost i still think he needs a small nerf or something
Its kinda hilarious cause guldo can use a cave to temporarily take cover recoome stun breaking skill is extremely deadly in a cave jiece and burter well not so much but since the first two levels they don't have to worry about caves
1:02:03 💀🤣
First off want to apologize for the last few comments I had made previously, my experiences haven't been fun in the slightest in solo que even when I do my best to try to direct the team on what to do, so I'm probably coming off heated by that. I do think though that Ginyu himself(not the squad) should be toned down slightly when he loses his team only because the snowballing that proceeds to happen even when you play as perfect as you can feels awful under some circumstances.
I watched the video entirely from beginning to end and I really do like your outlook and get where you're coming from. I don't think the Ginyu force are op like I did before and I agree with you 100%, many players really need to adapt better overall. Very nice vid 👍
Even if you don't agree with my 100% or at all that's totally okay! There's definitely aspects of the Ginyu Force you can argue is op but to say he's brainless or an insta win is where I draw the line lol
Idk why I tried to melee you near Guru’s house as Vegeta but you actually gave me pressure at that moment when attacking me, if you saw I transformed near the start of the match as the Bulma and you even noticed it while streaming the game but I never attacked you. Reason for that was because I found a level 3 radar and went to hunt for dragon balls faster so that’s why I summoned so quickly, btw I picked A to summon at because it has a huge rock that protects the pedestal unlike C which was out in the open. GGs tho we had fun and you definitely are one of the hard raiders we fight!
Y'all absolutely cooked me that 2nd game but that 1st match was super close!!
Only valid if you're with someone. Playing with random vs this raider is a nightmare.
yes, but this isn't exclusive to the Ginyu Force
I think I can summarize this pretty well.
'Raiders are OP' is more appropriate to the Ginyu force than any of the others right now because of people's experience with the PTS and the whole 'guaranteed lv4' thing. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees Ginyu was nutty on the PTS, but they got hit with one of the biggest raider nerfs I've actually seen on breakers. A guaranteed lv4 is a new concept as well and people relate the power of other lvl 4s to Ginyu which is wrong; Ginyu is a weak lvl4 by design.
But the other big argument as to why people say Raider is OP is because their experience in the game. And you have to put yourself in the shoes of the single player and not the whole scope of the match. Very simply it takes a whole lot more to kill the raider than it does a survivor. As a single survivor, your game could be over in the first 30 seconds in an interaction that lasted 2. That is what leads to the mentality that raiders are OP.
I understand there are 7 survivors, I am saying the personal experience can be much worse. It's also why new players will struggle more as survivor than as raider, although they may also win more games as survivor than raider because of team mate skill. And you get a divide in what people believe.
The reality of the balance of the game is that both sides can overwhelm the other because of RNG and snowball mechanics. It just so happens that a coordinated team of survivors, or a team playing well with one another, can reduce the impact of RNG by (in full caps and italics) * A LOT *
I think the reason people say that you are raider biased is due to you just not immediately saying raider is op. You try to explain to people why raider is not op. I think the majority for players they do not play with groups and instead play solo. Playing solo is a lot harder than in a group. This causes people to think raider is op because it is harder to work efficiently solo
I should have also added the fact that teamwork is how survivors win lack of it you lose as survivor.
It's true people forget it's a team based game
Rewatching the first two games, me running my medic build probably hurt more than it helped. Was still fun though.
The fact people were up pretty fast after getting downed shows that it wasn't the worst build man, props to you for running something different!
32:48 I didn't even know that spot existed that's pretty neat
its really good for hiding dragon balls
skill issue ngl i haven't lost with the ginyu force yet
32:47 am I the only one who didn’t know you could do that
"Raiders are too OP"
Me: I was literally able to 1v1 high level Final Form Frieza by delaying for the stm.
I don't fully agree here. I don't think they are overpowered or weak. Just super easy to play. I've pretty much never lost as the ginyu force even after their nerfs. I've gone up against decent survivors and they don't stand a chance.
I've countered barrier IT as guldo and not wasting my super's away like other raider players do. A lot raider players are over confident and die easily. I've killed multiple guldo's for being over confident and killed them in 2 motionless kamehameha'a. When i play guldo, i don't get too close and try to play a bit defensively so I'll outlast the survivors. I can counter melee attacks by freezing time and then meleeing the survivors. Guldo passively searching is really good too. Now yes guldo will definitely die if he's jumped by multiple survivors but if you get in that situation then you misplayed and didn't get enough civilians and tried being way too offensive.
Recoome is by far the best level 2 raider in the game. Recoome kick is a really really good alternative offensive option. Recoome mach attack is by far one of the best movement tools as a raider. Scouter is pretty good and bomber isn't bad either. Eraser gun is okay. I've seen recoome's absolutely snipe my teammates trying to summon shenron. But in most situations, its mid. Yes jumping can also work but again in most scenarios, you shouldn't end up getting jumped that early. You have a scouter to either pick off survivors quickly or get civilians.
Jeice and burter is pretty good. Not the best but definitely not bad. I've shredded level 4's jeice and burter. The melee damage is huge especially if recoome is still alive up to that point. Yes burter assist can be very inconsistent but in some combat scenarios, he'll help you extremely well. Purple comet crash is basically vegeta's finish breaker super but better. And crusher ball is decent. You shouldn't really die as jeice and burter most of the time. You can get jumped but it would require a lot of survivors going at you at the same time. Otherwise well timed vanishes and ki blasts/supers will help you outlast and down those survivors.
Ginyu is pretty good for a level 4. He has recoome to help out with melee attacks and since ginyu is level 4, only a survivor level 4 can stop those melee attacks. Power level boost is decent. Strong jersey is basically just recoome kick so you have a good alternative offensive option. And ginyu force buff's are a decent addition. Milky cannon+jeice and burter is still pretty good. Not as good as the PTS version of it but definitely a good super. Milky cannon alone is garbage. Body change is really good. It will insta down a level 4. It is avoidable but if you time it well when a survivor is vulnerable, they won't be able to avoid it. Its also funny to use it on the last survivor.
If you play well, you can win nearly every match as a the ginyu force. Maybe not all the time against pre mades but you should still be able to win a good amount of your matches as the ginyu force. Just don't let raider overconfidence get to you. Otherwise you'll just get shredded by motionless kamehameha'a.
They are definitely the most punishing raider to poor play
@@ironcane yes that it true. If you misplay, yes you can get punished badly. But if you play your cards right, you can pull off a win. I try to play the raider as if like i was playing as a level 4 survivor. I try vanishing constantly and let the survivors waste their d change. I don't play too offensively unless ik the survivor is either bad or vulnerable. If multiple are fighting me, i don't play offensively at all, i try being defensive cause ik once their d change is gone, they're done for. I also sometimes camp bodies and area's. But i don't try doing it too much cause that can lead to a misplay.
I played buu pre spopovich buff (the buff being that spopovich's health doesn't carry over to buu) and i fought some really really good pre mades. They whooped my spopovich but couldn't stop me from getting buu. They jumped me as fat buu when i had less than 40% health, i lived, they jumped me as super buu, i lived and then killed everyone. That's how i learned how to not be overconfident as a raider. Now i know how to play as a raider pretty well.
I also try to cook up the STM as quickly as possible. If shenron is available to the survivors, if i ain't close enough, im destroying the STM even if it causes the others to escape. Its not like they got a real win out of the match anyways. ETM is not a real win. If i know that survivors have a chance of winning, im immediately taking that chance away. Cause I've gotten a really good laugh when overconfident raiders lose because they got greedy.
Hey Ironcane you can actually cancel ultra fighting bomber. If you vanish, and if you use a active skill or super attack.
yes I'm pretty sure I say that in this video. Its a very good strat to avoid end lag!
havent played much this season but as far as i see it completely depends on how quick survivors react and beat the smallfry up, a huge part of the power comes from alive Force Members
got a level 2 Buu W 1-2 days ago, Cave saved my damn Bubblegum. they got the Lv 4 out and i still somehow managed to pull it off
The point is that it isn't as black and white as people make it out to be
I still think Solo Q is terrible against Ginyu, I've seen high level teams get wiped by low level Ginyu Force cuz they aren't working together. Also the worst thing is pretty much getting a guaranteed level 4 if you get your ass handed to you. Most of my Ginyu matches I win more too compared to my surv matches due to playing Solo Q mostly. Jeice and Burter shred.
Ofc, but solo q is arguably a worst time all around. Not necessarily just with the Ginyu Force
@ironcane True.
I've lost Solo Q matches against Cell...CELL of all raiders!
@@ironcane agree. its the same thing in other horror games like this, the prime example being dead by daylight. what people often miss is that communication is the key to winning almost ANY game with a team philosophy, horror or shooters or whatever else. communication is ALWAYS going to be the most powerful thing in a game 99% of the time hacking aside. : )
Solo Que is terrible in general a pre-made team is a requirement if you want to have any fun. I'd bet money that if you looked at just solo Que statistics Raiders win 70% - 80% of matches it truly is THAT bad.
@@Malicious_Malachi my solo que as a raider I always get stomped. The survivor team are either premades or tryhards
Getting lucky with boxes can help ginyu snowball really quick with little to no counter play
but this is true for ALL raiders
The game is clearly survivor sided but they dont have to buff raiders just nerf meta survivor builds. Raiders are fine but survivors a bit op
To be honest I play ginyu as raider alot and only lose to tryhard level and premade because this season 3 survivors skill are too good and is not easy to down 7 players who are good in this game and premade find the keys way too fast even I am good at raider I will know I lost to premade instantly before match starts
but nobody talks about this ^
Your the chichi feeder right? Pls chill out if you will. Some of us actually want to play our matches
Guldo’s evasive also stops EF if you didn’t know 3:55 though in that situation pretty dangerous to use it.
yup!
I mean you're right about gold though because I've lost him many times and I still whoop their butts.
I lvoe how the force is set up. The only way to beat them is have better teamwork.
My argument has always been random’s that are LV.100 and above play like they just bought the game.....I seen these same levels get recked by a LV.1 raider.....🤨🤨🤨 and that’s why I would say to dumb down the raider for survivors to catch up.
This is exactly what I mean, they aren’t op, they’re just new.
I think a lot of people call new stuff OP for a variety of reasons that aren't really associated with game balance, namely the trend in Anime UA-cam to call new releases "OP" to get clicks on their videos.
I dont think raider is op, i think survivor is way better than raider. And in some ways, more fun. And im saying this is a raider main who does get wins. But I also think ginyu is extremely op and unfun to play against. He borderline makes solo queue unplayable because they have anything you could ever want. At least 1 great super per stage, all stages have scouter (which i think is great tracking). All stages have great ki blasts except guldo (and even then guldo has a very high capacity to get downs). Recoome is one of the best lvl 2s, if not the best. Jeice is arguably the best lvl 3 that isnt super buu. And then ginyu is still as good as frieza, even without all the raiders alive. The way to beat ginyu is rng dependent because it basically requires every person to find power keys, radars, dragon balls, and also for the raider to not find you quickly. You dont have to deal with that for every other raider. With buu, lvl 3 is really strong but its really easy to keep his levels low. With cell, lvl 2 and lvl 3 are really bad at combat. With frieza, hes really strong, but definitely not unbeatable because he lacks real tracking. With saiyans, you dont have to kill every member like you have to do with ginyu. You can just kill nappa, and even then you dont actually need to. Nothing i said even takes into account the possibility that the ginyu player might just be good at the game and can escape jumpings or stall out dragon changes. Overall I think ginyu is just extremely egregious and beating him consistently is way too difficult. I dont think its a good thing that ginyu is balanced around “oh well premades exist and he can beat them”
They're not over powered I agree but I do feel that in time when playing with randoms a whole lot would run away instead of helping out, including a level 3!! while the raider was level 2!! like.. it's the new meta now, get dragon change, run away. LOL xD remind you!! with randoms. it's easier to play games with people that you know, know what they're doing than sometimes getting new players from raider or survival.
100% but my argument is that its always more difficult to fight raiders without a team, this isn't exclusive to the Ginyu Force. And if anything, it'll force players to play as a team to adapt
I wanna say that stack plays well but I just have so little respect for players who are level 160 STILL relying on IT/EF. Like... it's just such a boring way to play, sucks to play against, it doesn't feel good to use yourself. There are more fun skills and other ways to play. I just can't respect it because I've had IT/EF and I have never once felt the need to use it even when bike was good. Boo survivors boo. If you gonna no life a game, have some fun with it don't play lame every single game.
We get it bro. No they arent op but like vegeta has a higher chance of comeback. Is what it is but the matches are usually fun
Ginyu coupled with the Knockback Gauge is extremely overtuned. Without a level 4, it's almost impossible to get Ginyu off of the stm. And considering that no matter how well the raider plays, Ginyu is bound to come out...
Shoe, charming pose, bansho fan, suicide missile, two rockets, any melee super…
Ginyu without the other members isn't as scary as you're making him out to be.
@@l33tspaniard He can outlast all of those if the STM isn't close to completion. A smart raider is not going to just wait until the thing is almost finished to start destroying it.
Funny how almost nobody knows about this strat yet, just put your body ontop of the stm and make them use all their resources on you until you get ginyu, all the while spamming break. only time it won’t work is when a lvl 4 is up but if you die ontop of the ball you had ppl can’t pick it up.
@@zdjhjsbfhushx This
The Ginyu Force are not OP... there just the most elite warriors in the universe!
This is true 🫡
I sure love yet ANOTHER Ironcane upload about the Ginyu force that's very OP!!!!!!
You HAVE to admit he's the strongest raider ATLEAST. 3 lives, power charger each level, defensive skill on his level 1. Insane getaway skills (that you didn't use) on his level 2. Incredible supers on his level 3. And free level 4 with potentially 2 1-shot supers. He's busted, you just got busted up.
Absolutely, to imply he is a free win/instawin is ridiculous though
Ginyu Force has awful STM defense outside of Ginyu's powered up milky canon, so good teams will just bust up guldo and key rush while hoarding cooldown drinks, which is even worse now that head start drink is a thing, and force you to try and stop the machine with Recoome and J&B. They have no instant down outside of body change since Unconscious control is very effective against a lot of the Ginyu Force supers. They lose to excessive stun/escape/DC teams with good key rush like every other raider. The survivor teams just don't have the ridiculous margin of error that they do against the other raiders. I think people are just too used to so many of the raiders being garbage for so long that having to actually think a little with Ginyu is making everybody panic.
My problem ain’t the ginyu force it’s jace and burter
Ginyu Force isnt op in my opinion, I just think too many players are treating the Ginyu Force like Cell/Buu instead of someone like Vegeta/Frieza.
Yo ironcane your twin brother is pretty good
thanks man lol
@@ironcane also thanks for making this video learned a lot and I heavily respect your opinion
They’re definitely not OP I think people just get frustrated because they have to play them a little differently
If you can get the keys or most of them done before Jeice comes out you probably win the game
Honestly the idea of these games is that killer is od otherwise how would you even expect the raider to win get what your trying to say but if you need a whole team of 7 people to beat 1 then that means the one is od inherently or the game wouldn't be a game and we wouldn't be clamoring for raider queue
raiders are inherently op in 1 VS 1 scenarios, this a team-based game, when playing as a team raiders are not op. The reason why i say raiders and Ginyu is not op is because those who do not play as a team will play into the raiders strengths getting the impression that they are too strong when they aren't supposed to be soloing the raider in the first place
@@ironcane never said they should solo lol obviously but then this çrusade about raiders not being od makes no sense brotha one cuz survivor lvs matter and not everyone has a premade who are all lv100 + with the abilities that are meta and two because them needing to use team work means that the raiders ability to wipe is the depending factor on whether you can win as survivors if I waste all your dragon changes and destroy all soda machines your at my mercy then and it doesn't matter your skill I have to fumble to lose
@@ironcane accounting supplies too but tbh supplies be mid now cuz everyone rushes STM now
well if the raider wastes all the dragon changes of the survivors they are just playing well and the survivors aren't playing so hot, if the raider wastes everyone's change and no one is planting keys, stealing balls, or dealing damage then yes these changes are wasted.
Also survivor level doesn't always equal skill, same thing with raider level. You also don't need meta abilities to do well. My build consists of a majority of f2p actives with IT being the only gacha active I have equipped. The thing is a raider can really only focus on one survivor at a time so say in the scenario you described where all changes were wasted, its possible for six people to escape with one person being the sacrifice.
Here survivors can lick their wounds and find keys, dragon balls, sodas, civis, etc. And then potentially rez the downed survivor depending on the situation.
@@ironcane see I agree with a lot here but the survivor level and abilities thing just isn’t true at all lv doesn’t mean that persons not good but it does affect the trust a team has in them hell you’ve said it before you don’t really trust their knowledge of the game if their not above a lv 100 that causes people who would usually stay to fight to leave and abandon ship before it’s sank and me personally can’t consider etm a win it’s a bow out at best been playing this game since the beta and at first etm wins are fine but if ima play a game this style when my objective becomes escape rather than win I’d rather just play dbd or evo and I think most of the community thinks like that
and this is why they are cheaters cause there fast lvl ups, fast key findings, fast dragon balls hunting, and fast keep placing, these cheaters needs to be reported one way or another!
You’re just being too nice as a raider and not destroying the STM right away ma man.
Get at least one ball and camp the shit out of the last area. They will have to use all the resources to get the last key done. When the STM is up, they will have no DC to stop you from destroying the STM. I literally just won a match today using this method and I didn’t even have one single DB on me. They killed my Guldo and found all the keys in around 3 mins. Then I went straight to camp the last area. They summoned Shenron but I managed to do damages on the lvl4 and wasted most of their DC before Reccome died. I turned the table using the duos. Most of the survivors were out of DC so the lvl4 is a free meat for me. Even if they get the supply and kill the duos, I still have one extra life and they will not have more resources to stop my lvl4.
The point is you should stall as long as possible on each lvls. They will not have the resources to stop you simply becoz you have one extra life. Imo other members can stay the same but Ginyu needs to be punish harder if any members were defeated
They're not. My win loss record Proves that they're not overpowered.
guldo needs like 5 civilians/survivors
He only needs 4 civilians and 3 survivors
@@ashmonke6588 I'm pretty sure he doesn't get a boost from Executing survivors
@@reddawn1873 He does
Maybe at level 1 but not when he's upgraded I've seen Guldo get 2 civs then auto evolve to Recoome.
They are op, 4 different hp barre. If you don't kill jayce and burtur ginuy can one shot lv with one first skill or body change.
Actually the only way to counter for kill ginuy is rush power key. Play with passive for reload active and energy for each cheast open. And when get lv1 use sayan pod or instant transmission for go fight raider each lv and hope Ally come to help. If they don't I don't care die because if you play safe vs ginuy squad you just gonna lose.
But if raider know the map you can do nothing, because for example every time my guildo enf farm in 40sor 80s depend where I spawn
if you watch my final match you'll see that key rushing is not the only way to beat the Ginyu Force, hell the first match I had against the premade they didn't key rush either and I still lost. Key rushing is effective, but its not always the be all end all
4 HP bars but they're extremely brittle. Legit you can down Guldo with two supers and Recoome isn't that much better at tanking hits.
Literally just stun lock them, charge a genkidama and even Jeice and Burter can say goodbye to their HP.
And body change can only be used ONCE, after it lands it's gone and Ginyu loses his scouter. But even then unless you've killed enough of the members or activated STM by that time you can't really complain about Ginyu steamrolling you.
@@kutaoizumi4189yes but only if guild chase player. Like I say if raider know the map he can get lv2 before almost get lv1. And almost time if they chase me I just don't care and go search civil and ki blast survivor if they come try cancel kill. And recoom is strong for tunnel survivor because if he go away you can use the skill for chase him and if hit you can chain with active skill kick for hit before he can barrier. And if survivor fight together you can just fly away, found guildo and wait around him for freeze survivor if they come to fight. Lv3 is can one shot survivor lv3 if melee can negate dmg with purple comet.
Ginyu squad is the most easiest raider because get for reason already explain
@@ironcaneyes I know I already kill ginyu force also for each lv but for that you need your team come help to fight but almost of time for exemple I use instant transmission or sayan pod for save on Ally. And finally he run away and let me 1vs1 raider. This is what happened in 80% games. And I talk for kill ginyu not for win with time machine. For time machine the most important is kill jayce for ginyu can't spam the skill combo. Because this one is op you can kill one player try call shenron. You don't need lock you look the direction and use the skill.
For that now vs ginyu squad I play aggressive when I can transform, if I die because no follow I don't car like I say before because if they don't come for fight in early it sure they gonna do nothing later or feed. And for fight correctly is important to use melee skill, like that also if under lv you can black the raider in the animation or he gonna use his cleanse and if he do your ally with same lv can go melee.
Yes gi'yu force can be defeat but you need a lot more try hard than for fight other raider
ginyu is fine he’s probably the best raider right now but that’s just because he’s new
I’m sorry but they need to be toned down a bit. I legit haven’t lost a single match with Ginyu and I’m currently on a 23 game winning streak with him. There were matches where I should’ve lost and still won. Ginyu is extremely fun but he’s literally a guaranteed win if you pick him.
just because YOU are on a win streak does not determine how things are for everyone else, he is not a guranteed win bro that is so arrogant to say
@@ironcane bro exactly
Sorry cane you ain’t gonna talk no jutsu me into believing this