Special thanks to EmperorTigerstar for dealing with this series with me. He continues the pain in Part 2 on his channel. ua-cam.com/video/f64nXmiFWAs/v-deo.html
i was a boy. they were 138 girls. can i make it any more obvious? thats right, i had a crazy dream last night. HAHAHAHAHA!!! im the funniest youtube star ever. youre welcome for laughing dear gol
me when I actually read the series, that's pretty much exactly how I felt. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it while I was reading it, but it sure as hell felt like it came out of nowhere, especially because a lot of characters started dying with little warning (which I also liked, honestly, made things more exciting)
Roger Ebert once coined the phrase "Idiot plot" a plot that would instantly be resolved if everyone wasn't an idiot. This book series defiantly feels like its being run on an idiot plot.
Stomp Tokyo, an old B-Movie review website from the late 90s/early 00's had the phrase "It's in the Script" IISTS - why does everyone keep saying that woman is beautiful, when she's not by any objective standard? IITS. That guy singing in the movie from the 50's who's mediocre at best, but has everyone talking about him like the next great thing? IITS
@@zoharamitai8719 Command & Conquer : Red Alert is a computergame which has an alternate history. In it Albert Einstein ,using a timemachine, shakes hands with a young Hitler, who then disappears . Einstein then returns to his own time. In this game Stalin tries to take control of Europe with Hitler out of the way and the allies try to prevent it.
@@zoharamitai8719 Red alert series of games. First game has Einstein travel back in time to kill Hitler before his rise to power, which leads to a not-so-cold war between soviets and allies. Second game sees the allies victorious and a not-really-puppet Romanov installed in the still communist soviet union. He gets manipulated by a time-traveling psycic mystic (maybe alien) into starting a world war, as Romanovs are want to do. Third game sees Premiere Tim Curry on the losing side of some previous Red Alert game, so he travels back in time to stop the invention of time travel and atomic bombs by killing Albert Einstein, and a three-way world war with an un-nuked japan and the allies ensues. They are good RTSes and really quite silly, and the writers know this and just have fun with it.
I was already questioning this when Japan declared on the soviets...but holy fuck, my jaw fucking dropped when Hess just, CONVINCES THE ALLIES TO SIMPLY NOT KILL GERMANY
Well you see in the story Churchill, Britain's most ardent and influential anti-Communist, died in a car crash and so naturally the Allied leadership was more receptive to fighting Communists and fuck sake I don't have a clue. Might as well have written Dumbledore in to cast a plottus bullshittus spell.
The one with Japan is actually pretty likely. The main reasons Japanese didn’t declare war on Soviet union in our timeline was that: 1. They lost battle against them in 1939 and realized that it wouldn’t be good idea to go against Soviets. So they went for peace. If ww2 started in 1938 that could potentially mean that Soviets would focus more on battlefield in Europe which could change outcome of that battle in Mongolia. 2. Germany signed non aggression pact with Soviet union in 1939. Obviously, Japanese didn’t see into future, so they couldn’t know that it was just pretense on Hitler’s side and he will break it. So Japan also signed non aggression pact, since they didn’t want to be the ones fighting Soviets alone. Again if war started in 1938, that would signal German intentions to Japanese. 3. They had cooperation with Poland in sharing information about Soviet union. They were actually kind of pissed that Germany cooperated with Soviets in taking down Poland. In this alternative reality Poland and Germany are fighting on same side which could smooth things over for Japanese even more. 4. And lastly, this one is more about future 1940 and 1941. In our timeline. France and Netherlands fell first. That meant that European colonies in south east Asia didn’t have any substantial protection and were easy target (UK also being preoccupied with battle for Britain). Which brought Japan on path of southern expansion and against US (because Philippines).
The did the same for the french too. In 2003 when the French refused to put down troops to help with the invasion of Iraq Americana started calling French fries "freedom fries"
This sounds like someone that overestimated how long their series was going to be so they had to really pad it out and jump over flaming hoops to make it longer.
It honestly feels like this series was a bunch of smaller scenarios (such as WW2 starting in 1938, Churchill dying early, and Franco not leading the Spanish Nationalists) loosely tied together into a single timeline.
French soldiers, who had just spent a year repelling Germans who invaded and fucked up half their country in a bitter campaign, would totes overnight go fight side by side with Wehrmacht soldiers who were killing them and their countrymen a day earlier. Seems legit.
I've never seen Cody laugh that hard before lmao Also I was worried that the reason Germany keeps fighting was that the United States joined the Axis, but the Churchill thing was better lol
Guns of the south is honestly such an amazing examination of the confederacy, and the goofy title and premise don't really make that clear, they're literally confronted with what their grand children will think of them and are forced to make decisions they don't wanna make because of how history will view them and it horrifies them.
Also a good exploration of Robert E. Lee and the mentality of the time. Robert did not join the Confederacy becuase he was a rich slave owner wanting to preserve his precious slaves, he was actually an amazing human being who was loyal to his home state and loved democracy
Last I checked, someone fighting in favor of a slave government - whether or not they believe in slavery - can’t be a supporter of democracy in anything but name. Being enslaved is sorta the opposite of Democratic citizenship.
"Gave the confederates AK-47s" Meanwhile the Union had the Gatling Gun and could easily mass produce ammo for it while the Confederates wouldn't know how to manufacture the 7.62x39mm Round at first.
Yet this falls under the assumption that they were dumb and couldn't reverse engineer it, also the South Africans provide more than just the rifles and some ammunition, they provide technical packages, tech, training, and even medical supplies for Lee's heart condition. Might want to read it before assuming it's just "Here AK's.".
That's why they brought a shit tonne of ammo and the machinery required to make it back with them in time. The series has issues, but its not QUITE as braindead as you make it sound.
The mostly agriculture economy of the confederacy buying a presumably EXPENSIVE Weapon at the time with ammo that wouldn't be readily available in the 1860s against the industrial power of the Union. Yeah, I dont see it working. Investing in a futuristic and potentially expensive weapon with the hopes it will kill in great numbers isnt a viable strategy.
The South does win the Civil War BUT the Union quickly mass-produces AKs right after. It was a temporary advantage Canada finds this the hard way when the Union invades as they now have AKs Franco-Prussian War would have pre-WW2 military tech WW1 would have Korean War tech
Seems like Turtledove has a fundamental misunderstanding of Great Man Theory, or at least a terrible approach. It’s obviously not THE defining element of history, but the psychological profiles of people in important positions are still a major factor. Getting these profiles right and having your “characters” act in character is important to alternate history writing. But Turtledove seems to only care about the historical change, ignoring what the figures would actually do according to who they really were
It would have been a death sentence for the Nazis to invade the Czechs in 1938 German casualties would have been higher than invading Poland. Germany has a civil war Soviets wouldn't invade Poland but watch the Allies massacre the Nazis Soviets focus on defeating Japan. They easily take Manchuria and Korea. US stops selling oil to Japan much earlier Pear Harbor happens earlier. Japan falls earlier. Cold War starts earlier
@@christiandauz3742 Amusingly Hitler actually, to his death, believed that his greatest mistake was not invading the Czechs in 1938 and therefore kicking the war off early
@@Jan-rq8mo Dumb idea. It would have made invading Poland impossible and force Germany to occupy Czechoslivakia, meaning less soldiers for war Another dumb idea is Sea Lion. 62k dead or captured Germans is not worth it to kill 5k Allied soldiers and civilians. Plus more losses to the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine than in history And the use of oil. Plus it would screw up Barbarossa as well
@@christiandauz3742 Funny enough, the Czechs had extensive defenses in the Sudetenland, and losing it destroyed their years of preparation, so they basically had to capitulate.
@@emprahsfinest7092 The natural terrain is a nightmare for the German Army as well The Axis would have shot themselves in the foot going to war in 1938 by invading Czechoslovakia
Because the Colonization series is pretty weird, there’s some cool concepts with humanity interacting with an alien race in the 60s with better technology but there’s a lot of weird stuff with Harry repeating stuff every now and then
Currently reading this books series, so this was a good find. Recently finished book 1. It’s just… okay. It’s got so much endless repitition; smoking, digging in, and it’s just sort of boring. Worst part, though, is that the war is just EXACTLY THE SAME AS OTL as you mentioned. It even has the same Phony War! WHY?! Turtledove just doesn’t use his brain, the war is the same as otl, just more boring. It’s basically just WW2 with no Panzer 3s.
Cody can you please do a video titled "what if Britian and the US had their own Soviet-Sino split during the cold war" Would love if you did a video like this for an alternate history story.
@errrrrrrrrrwhat hmm in this new timeline i could see britian amd france parring ways with the US and basically cooperating together as one unit on the world stage maybe idk
@@mc-ps-playa5569 I don't know, keep in mind that the US essentially forbade the UK from developing their own nuclear weapons program and implicitly threatened to seize the UK's uranium supply and refused to supply any information on the subject after unilaterally dipping out of the Quebec agreement despite the Manhattan project being fostered by expertise exported from the UK. There was a distinct sense of betrayal over the matter
At the 8:42 mark you flash a picture of a group of laughing men; the young man most prominently featured there is Pier Giorgio Frassati, who was (among other things) a socialist and son of the owner and editor of "Il Stampa" newspaper, a prominent, anti-fascist paper paper in Italy. Frassati himself was no friend to the fascist (actually single-handedly fighting off a group of black shirts who broke into his home, thinking only his mother and sister were home), and was also an active member of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, a Catholic lay organization which served people in poverty. He died at the age of 24 from polio (which was believed he contracted from one of the many families he regularly visited when he helped people). He was declared a "Blessed: by the Catholic church (a step toward sainthood) in 1990.
Don't let me even get started on the odds that there's a 14 years old revolutionary who is also 7 feet tall, is super strong, handsome, and apparently is "a genius". This really sounds like a teenager's fan fiction.
I have to say the one thing turtledove did right was showing how nationalistic and agressive the Polish regime was at the time. They were pretty infamous in the region for their actions and alienated a lot of potential allies. The only issue I find is that I don't think Hitler would want anything to do with the Poles, considering what he viewed of their race. Lithuania would have been more likely to have become the ally in the region given Germany's failed past attempts in WW1 to form Osterland under Mindaugas II.
You know that Poland and Lithuania are the same race, right? Also, the only reason Germany didn't ally with the poles is the fact that they didn't give them danzing
@@klatos420>hey Poland please surrender your majority ethnic Polish territory, give us unrestricted access to your only port and immeasurably improve our military and political position should we ever choose to engage in aggression in the future >no >reeee international jewish banking cartels have forced us into war
Rudolph Hess flies into Britain and somehow convinces the allies to stop fighting them and attack the soviets instead... yeah that's realistic. Not him being arrested and made a POW.
the best thing about this is that scenario is wrong even at the start when poles attacked czechoslovakia because ,,reasons'' where in reality there litteraly said to french side that their army was ready for action if hitler declared war on czech side xD
AISURU.TOKYO/mizumi/?[🤤] (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 year and over UA-cam: This is fime Someone: Says "heck" UA-cam: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
Harry Turtledove gives me very Wattpad Fanfiction author vibes. I mean, Alternate History is basically fanfiction but he gives me intense fanfiction vibes.
4:20 Poland didnt take region of Czechoslovakia for no reason. When in 1920 Poland was fighting soviets Czechs blocked weapons send from Hungary as help to Poland and they said that they will stop if Poland give them a part of Silesia. Polish government was in bad position so it agreed. In 1938 Poland just took its land back.
Guns of the South and the WW2 alien invasion series were solid, but my favorite work of his is the Ruled Britannia novel where the Spanish Armada does make it to England and takes over. The whole use of Elizabethan English and Shakespeare as the main character were great.
The War that Came Early is still the only series of his that has a stand out character in my mind. That mean ass French NCO who is just the definition of "not my job to think about why this is happening, just to slay bodies" Also do The Hot War. Interested to see your take on an atomic pissing match over radioactive Harbin.
God I love Demange. One of the best characters, just on his own. The German tank crew were all great as a group, but Sergeant/Lieutenant Demange were why I finished the series, because I wanted to know what happened to him. Hot War was my second Turtledove series, and is still my second favorite of all time (Legion of Videssos is my top series)
Sergent later Lieutenant Demange was such a god damn badass. Here is a quote from him: “Sure it will. So what?” Demange said. “We came here on account of some French jackass with a white mustache and fancy embroidery on his kepi told us to. If that same jerk, or another con just like him, says Stalin’s the hottest lay since Josephine Baker and we should make nice with him from now on, we fucking well will. That’s how the game is rigged, and you know it as well as I do.”
A little Spanish history add-on as a Spaniard myself: If Sanjurjo would've survived the war would've ended way sooner, like, in months or in just a year. One of the key decisions that took Franco to leadership was taking his armies away from Madrid, the capital, which was open without any defenses and would've almost collapsed the whole Republican effort. He instead sent then to rescue the Nationalist Garrison Divisions of Toledo, who were being besieged inside the Alcazar, a military fortification. This was a propagandistic move, as Franco lead a sentiment of saving those trapped in the Alcazar. After they were saved, Franco was seen as a hero of the army and the country, and propelled him to power. The downside was that Madrid and the Republican army were now fortified and ready, and the war would take years. If Sanjurjo was alive, then there was no need for a propagandistic move as he was already in power. He would've taken Madrid and then steamrolled the Republic in one year's time
Can I just say. The animation and "memes" if you will in this video are top notch. Especially the soviets and French beating Germany. This style of video making is just great man, I live it 👍
I'm reading "How Few Remain" right now and, while it has some interesting ideas, it mostly reads like fan fiction about major characters of the 19th century? It's not "bad", but the characters are definitely not on the level of Ken Follett's historical books.
Yeah, that timeline is more fan fiction than anything else. I still personally enjoyed it, but it's not his best work by any stretch of the imagination. It draws a little too heavily from how events occurred in reality (down to having a Stalingrad type push and encirclement in Pittsburgh during the WW2 era, and to the North's best tank commander having a name almost identical to Erwin Rommel) It was one of those things that I enjoyed while reading, and then I went back and looked at the timeline and I was like 'wait a minute'
That seems like the norm with Turtledove. The concepts he uses tend to be more interesting than what he actually does with them. And way too much of the "exactly the same events that happened in reality, but at a different time and place" stuff.
Harry Turtledove is the George Lucas of alternate history - masterful at crafting wild, zany, captivating universes but god awful at dialogue and an obsession with cringey love plots
Pre-7:50: OK, this kind of makes sense. Reminds me of a HOI4 playthrough I did as the UK once. I'm guessing the other three books will be about a war between the Allies and the Soviets after Germany dies? 7:50 onwards: *excuse me but what the actual heck*
Ya know I have my own troubled history with turtledove. See when I was a kid I was really into the myth of Atlantis and I remained so to this day so imagine my surprise when I found out the author of many alternate history classics sorted a trilogy about Atlantis and me being an idiot I thought the premise was basically what if the mysterious lost continent existed and was discovered during the early colonial era but nope turns out the premise what what of Florida broke away from the north American mainland millions of years ago, was found and colonized first, and then had every major historical event that happens to the United States happen to it instead. It's literally a Florida fan fic.
Where's Atlantis? Girolamo Fracastoro: In the Caribic Olof Rudbeck: Sweden Ignatius Donnelly: In the Atlantic Heinrich Himmler: Himalaya Harry Turtledove: Florida
Im getting ready to he stressed out by the Cowboys game so it's a good thing this came out. I needed some laughs early in the day lmao. The editing and jokes are great. So no to drinking and driving - Winston Chruchill
I remember having to do a book report on this series in 8th grade for some reason. I read the first book, skipped the rest, made up my own story, and somehow nobody noticed.
4:08 If Poland didn’t have Beck as its foreign minister, Poles would most likely become an “ally” of Nazi Germany. In Hitlers writing and I believe Gobbles also , both saw Poland as a member of the Comintern , and a potential satellite state. But due to Becks staunch neutrality, uncompromising attitude in relation to the Polish corridor, and Britain and France promising aid in case of war, the Poles were pushed to the allies side.
The WorldWar series Turtledove did is awesome, but when you start reading it as a comedy about the most incompetent alien invaders in all of fiction, then it becomes gold.
AISURU.TOKYO/mizumi/?[🤤] (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 year and over UA-cam: This is fime Someone: Says "heck" UA-cam: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
7:44 We've all heard of the Deus Ex Machina, but this is a perfect example of a Diabolis Ex Machina; an extremely contrived plot twist created just to "keep things interesting".
Winston Churchhill dying in a drunk driving accident is honestly the most realistic part of these books. I'm kinda surprised the glorious old drunk didn't didn't go out in a drunken rampage in real life
One of my "favorite" moments of a Turtledove book is when a Roman saves a woman from being raped by killing all her attackers, and then they decide to do the Devil's Tango in middle of all the corpses of the would-be rapists he just killed.
I seem to recall Harry Turtledove himself mentioning at some point that he's not happy with this particular series on Twitter; and from what little of the books I've read I rather suspect he did it as a contractual obligation than any actual desire or interest in the scenario.
Huh, I read the first book (back when it was only the one book and before it became a series) and thought it had a pretty reasonable ending given how Germany went off half-baked to war. I had no idea it became a series, much less a six-parter that went in such... strange directions.
AISURU.TOKYO/mizumi/?[🤤] (◍•ᴗ•◍)✧*。18 year and over UA-cam: This is fime Someone: Says "heck" UA-cam: Be gone #однако #я #люблю #таких #рыбаков #Интересно #забавно #девушка #смешная #垃圾
That character bit you mentioned is...yeah, looking back at the Turtledove I read before, it's more obvious that he doesn't have the grasp to write really interesting character dialogue and most of what you'd remember about them is more about their official POV in the events rather than the actual character themselves. "Oh that's Panzer guy, this is U.S. Navy seaman, here's the spy, etc.".
Special thanks to EmperorTigerstar for dealing with this series with me. He continues the pain in Part 2 on his channel. ua-cam.com/video/f64nXmiFWAs/v-deo.html
Awesome
Remake "What if the Soviets won the Cold War" please!
He released that early
What if WW1 never happend?
Hmmm…… 2.5 stars.
This just sounds like when my friends and I try to play a historical game in hoi4 but it just ends up going horribly awry.
i was a boy. they were 138 girls. can i make it any more obvious? thats right, i had a crazy dream last night. HAHAHAHAHA!!! im the funniest youtube star ever. youre welcome for laughing dear gol
@@AxxLAfriku don't care + ratio + get a job
@@AxxLAfriku ua-cam.com/video/ZOkHxdEQ6Lg/v-deo.html
@@AxxLAfriku You are a sad excuse for a living being.
@@neasper Shut up he is good
7:32 Rudolph Hess clearly maxed out his speech skill before beginning the quest.
Rolled a nat 20 fr
Man hacked the game and got Speech 2,000
Ol'Rudy clearly maxed out his Charisma stat before flying out to Britain, yeah.
Wow, the Author of this book must be way ahead of his times.
How did he predicted all those terribly gone wrong Hearts Of Iron IV Multiplayer Matches?
Lmeo
guys did you know that communism sucks
@@paradropgeneral4397 lmeo xD
Author is a hoi4 mp player. It all makes sense now.
@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 true
First half of the video. “Huh. Well this doesn’t seem so bad.”
Book 3. “Well shit went off the rails real quick.”
me when I actually read the series, that's pretty much exactly how I felt.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it while I was reading it, but it sure as hell felt like it came out of nowhere, especially because a lot of characters started dying with little warning (which I also liked, honestly, made things more exciting)
@@redjive_industries3760 Luc 😢
That's every turtledove book.
Beginning: Wow this is a really cool concept!
Middle: wait... What...?
Ending: tf I just read?
My reaction too: interesting premise with a mediocre but acceptable execution, but The Big Switch just goes off the rails.
0:14 Those eyes tell it all.
Yey
Yes it does…it does
Like martincincopants and his endless Just Cause 3 marathons.
He’s in severe pain in the inside
Hello!
Roger Ebert once coined the phrase "Idiot plot" a plot that would instantly be resolved if everyone wasn't an idiot. This book series defiantly feels like its being run on an idiot plot.
To be fair, there’s plenty of idiots in real life as well
I mean… realistic?
Stomp Tokyo, an old B-Movie review website from the late 90s/early 00's had the phrase "It's in the Script" IISTS - why does everyone keep saying that woman is beautiful, when she's not by any objective standard? IITS.
That guy singing in the movie from the 50's who's mediocre at best, but has everyone talking about him like the next great thing? IITS
There’s no time-traveling Albert Einstein trying to prevent WW2 by killing Hitler with a handshake?
2/10 terrible story
Red Alert
Unless it also has a time-traveling Tim Curry trying to kill Albert Einstein I ain't interested.
Hold up what us this referencing?
@@zoharamitai8719 Command & Conquer : Red Alert is a computergame which has an alternate history. In it Albert Einstein ,using a timemachine, shakes hands with a young Hitler, who then disappears . Einstein then returns to his own time. In this game Stalin tries to take control of Europe with Hitler out of the way and the allies try to prevent it.
@@zoharamitai8719 Red alert series of games. First game has Einstein travel back in time to kill Hitler before his rise to power, which leads to a not-so-cold war between soviets and allies. Second game sees the allies victorious and a not-really-puppet Romanov installed in the still communist soviet union. He gets manipulated by a time-traveling psycic mystic (maybe alien) into starting a world war, as Romanovs are want to do. Third game sees Premiere Tim Curry on the losing side of some previous Red Alert game, so he travels back in time to stop the invention of time travel and atomic bombs by killing Albert Einstein, and a three-way world war with an un-nuked japan and the allies ensues. They are good RTSes and really quite silly, and the writers know this and just have fun with it.
So this is like if Turtledove wrote a story about his favorite Hearts of Iron 4 game.
@@mmi7004 shut up bot!!!
Basically the average hoi4 game
pretty much. i mean if this is a HOI game though it sounds interesting
I'm waiting for his Kaiserreich fanfic to be adapted into a book tbh.
@@mmi7004 you do realise that HOI4 gamers dont need sex?
That Churchill car crash skit had me rolling though 🤣
Just like churchill when he was hit
@@Poplock4121 oh I just realized I made a pun on accident lol
@@colefahie9784 the same thing that happened to Churchill 🤣
i like when we simplify historical events by simply reducing the damage done to simplistic titles comparable to series titles
Simple simplified simplicity
@@mmi7004 go away, we're gaming
@@Cairo40000 thought I was the only one that simply thought of these simple words.
I dont even know what this even means lol
This is indeed weird though
I would thoroughly enjoy a Cody rant on Turtledove characters.
How much zinc ointment needs to be applied?
Obligatory socialist characters especially, which seem to exist only to say stupid things like "the diaclectic states that we will win"
I was already questioning this when Japan declared on the soviets...but holy fuck, my jaw fucking dropped when Hess just, CONVINCES THE ALLIES TO SIMPLY NOT KILL GERMANY
Well you see in the story Churchill, Britain's most ardent and influential anti-Communist, died in a car crash and so naturally the Allied leadership was more receptive to fighting Communists and fuck sake I don't have a clue. Might as well have written Dumbledore in to cast a plottus bullshittus spell.
The one with Japan is actually pretty likely. The main reasons Japanese didn’t declare war on Soviet union in our timeline was that:
1. They lost battle against them in 1939 and realized that it wouldn’t be good idea to go against Soviets. So they went for peace. If ww2 started in 1938 that could potentially mean that Soviets would focus more on battlefield in Europe which could change outcome of that battle in Mongolia.
2. Germany signed non aggression pact with Soviet union in 1939. Obviously, Japanese didn’t see into future, so they couldn’t know that it was just pretense on Hitler’s side and he will break it. So Japan also signed non aggression pact, since they didn’t want to be the ones fighting Soviets alone. Again if war started in 1938, that would signal German intentions to Japanese.
3. They had cooperation with Poland in sharing information about Soviet union. They were actually kind of pissed that Germany cooperated with Soviets in taking down Poland. In this alternative reality Poland and Germany are fighting on same side which could smooth things over for Japanese even more.
4. And lastly, this one is more about future 1940 and 1941. In our timeline. France and Netherlands fell first. That meant that European colonies in south east Asia didn’t have any substantial protection and were easy target (UK also being preoccupied with battle for Britain). Which brought Japan on path of southern expansion and against US (because Philippines).
@@stafer3 Yes, that is probably only part of this nonsense, what could actually happen.
Was Hess alive when this was written I wonder what his reaction would’ve been.
@@nevermind3630 If he was, he would've been over 100 years old.
I could feel the disappointment within the first phrasing of "It'll kill your passion like it just killed mine."
This is why I love this channel.
WW2 fun fact: To avoid using the German sounding name ‘hamburger’ during World War II, Americans used the name ‘Liberty Steak.’
They did that in ww1 as well
A liberty steak to go with my freedom fires.
The did the same for the french too. In 2003 when the French refused to put down troops to help with the invasion of Iraq Americana started calling French fries "freedom fries"
Liberty cabbage, liberty steak, and freedom fries.
@@richardarriaga6271 i wanna liberty shake with some freedom fries
This sounds like someone that overestimated how long their series was going to be so they had to really pad it out and jump over flaming hoops to make it longer.
I know it was an April fools joke, but an alternate future hub would be great
YES YOU GENIUS
Yeesssss
0:50 so Stalin was born in Georgia instead of Georgia.
Makes sense.
yes
Cody's pain makes the greatest content
y e s
gotcha
Can we just take a minute to discuss just how adorable Tigerstar looks in Cody's style?
Yes!
Harry Turtledove, the man with the 'What If' scenarios.
Shows that Turtledove isn’t perfect. Especially this series.
@@dragon_ninja_2186 Eh. It was OK, obviously Cody exaggerates for comedic effect but I think it's worth a read.
It honestly feels like this series was a bunch of smaller scenarios (such as WW2 starting in 1938, Churchill dying early, and Franco not leading the Spanish Nationalists) loosely tied together into a single timeline.
Ok, so that whole "UK and France join Nazi Germany" seems like turtledove just didn't have any idea what to do with the story.
guys did you know what communism sucks
@UCohI6dHionUBUfT0f5Bdcfg Nazism was just as bad to the Allies so I don't get your defense.
@@jlev1028 ok
@@jlev1028 it's the exact reason that turtledove used
French soldiers, who had just spent a year repelling Germans who invaded and fucked up half their country in a bitter campaign, would totes overnight go fight side by side with Wehrmacht soldiers who were killing them and their countrymen a day earlier. Seems legit.
I've never seen Cody laugh that hard before lmao
Also I was worried that the reason Germany keeps fighting was that the United States joined the Axis, but the Churchill thing was better lol
The moment Cody hilariously broke character 7:40
He’s cracking
…and it’s very scary…
This is perfectly in character
That was the best part of the video
Guns of the south is honestly such an amazing examination of the confederacy, and the goofy title and premise don't really make that clear, they're literally confronted with what their grand children will think of them and are forced to make decisions they don't wanna make because of how history will view them and it horrifies them.
Also a good exploration of Robert E. Lee and the mentality of the time.
Robert did not join the Confederacy becuase he was a rich slave owner wanting to preserve his precious slaves, he was actually an amazing human being who was loyal to his home state and loved democracy
@@fildariusv7045 "loved democracy", lol stop
@@avinashreji60 So far I am not aware that he was a dictator
Last I checked, someone fighting in favor of a slave government - whether or not they believe in slavery - can’t be a supporter of democracy in anything but name. Being enslaved is sorta the opposite of Democratic citizenship.
@@raruther59 True, but when I meant democracy, I meant so much as the system of goverment.
I swear that this is just a Hoi4 game, were the Germany coop slid into the allied discord and convinced them to go in on the USSR.
If only that happened...
sounds like a weird Road to 56 run with historical focuses turned off
@@notenoughmemes1847 lol, I know right? Those things get wild, mate.
"Gave the confederates AK-47s"
Meanwhile the Union had the Gatling Gun and could easily mass produce ammo for it while the Confederates wouldn't know how to manufacture the 7.62x39mm Round at first.
Yet this falls under the assumption that they were dumb and couldn't reverse engineer it, also the South Africans provide more than just the rifles and some ammunition, they provide technical packages, tech, training, and even medical supplies for Lee's heart condition. Might want to read it before assuming it's just "Here AK's.".
That's why they brought a shit tonne of ammo and the machinery required to make it back with them in time. The series has issues, but its not QUITE as braindead as you make it sound.
@@StrainXv Read trash? No thanks.
The mostly agriculture economy of the confederacy buying a presumably EXPENSIVE Weapon at the time with ammo that wouldn't be readily available in the 1860s against the industrial power of the Union. Yeah, I dont see it working. Investing in a futuristic and potentially expensive weapon with the hopes it will kill in great numbers isnt a viable strategy.
The South does win the Civil War BUT the Union quickly mass-produces AKs right after. It was a temporary advantage
Canada finds this the hard way when the Union invades as they now have AKs
Franco-Prussian War would have pre-WW2 military tech
WW1 would have Korean War tech
From 7:22 on, I guessed what was gonna happen and I bursted out in laughter. Amazing video as always.
Seems like Turtledove has a fundamental misunderstanding of Great Man Theory, or at least a terrible approach. It’s obviously not THE defining element of history, but the psychological profiles of people in important positions are still a major factor. Getting these profiles right and having your “characters” act in character is important to alternate history writing. But Turtledove seems to only care about the historical change, ignoring what the figures would actually do according to who they really were
It would have been a death sentence for the Nazis to invade the Czechs in 1938
German casualties would have been higher than invading Poland. Germany has a civil war
Soviets wouldn't invade Poland but watch the Allies massacre the Nazis
Soviets focus on defeating Japan. They easily take Manchuria and Korea. US stops selling oil to Japan much earlier
Pear Harbor happens earlier. Japan falls earlier. Cold War starts earlier
@@christiandauz3742 Amusingly Hitler actually, to his death, believed that his greatest mistake was not invading the Czechs in 1938 and therefore kicking the war off early
@@Jan-rq8mo
Dumb idea. It would have made invading Poland impossible and force Germany to occupy Czechoslivakia, meaning less soldiers for war
Another dumb idea is Sea Lion. 62k dead or captured Germans is not worth it to kill 5k Allied soldiers and civilians. Plus more losses to the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine than in history
And the use of oil. Plus it would screw up Barbarossa as well
@@christiandauz3742 Funny enough, the Czechs had extensive defenses in the Sudetenland, and losing it destroyed their years of preparation, so they basically had to capitulate.
@@emprahsfinest7092
The natural terrain is a nightmare for the German Army as well
The Axis would have shot themselves in the foot going to war in 1938 by invading Czechoslovakia
“Some lows”
Are you kidding me look at that duke nukem lizard with that machine gun. How could that not be the single best book ever made by humans?!?
Because the Colonization series is pretty weird, there’s some cool concepts with humanity interacting with an alien race in the 60s with better technology but there’s a lot of weird stuff with Harry repeating stuff every now and then
Soo, we really can't complain anymore about the plot of the Red Alert series after this..
It’s scientifically impossible to do so after watching this
Currently reading this books series, so this was a good find. Recently finished book 1. It’s just… okay.
It’s got so much endless repitition; smoking, digging in, and it’s just sort of boring.
Worst part, though, is that the war is just EXACTLY THE SAME AS OTL as you mentioned. It even has the same Phony War! WHY?! Turtledove just doesn’t use his brain, the war is the same as otl, just more boring.
It’s basically just WW2 with no Panzer 3s.
"Geez, this holocaust business really is a pain in the tuchus." Sara shivered
Please tell me that isn't a quote from the book
Cody can you please do a video titled "what if Britian and the US had their own Soviet-Sino split during the cold war" Would love if you did a video like this for an alternate history story.
Would be Interesting
@errrrrrrrrrwhat hmm in this new timeline i could see britian amd france parring ways with the US and basically cooperating together as one unit on the world stage maybe idk
@@danielmessi1092 I could see other European nations like Italy, Sweden and possibly Spain going along with them too
The US and UK were way too close after ww2 for that kind of fracturing.
A Franco-American split, however…
@@mc-ps-playa5569 I don't know, keep in mind that the US essentially forbade the UK from developing their own nuclear weapons program and implicitly threatened to seize the UK's uranium supply and refused to supply any information on the subject after unilaterally dipping out of the Quebec agreement despite the Manhattan project being fostered by expertise exported from the UK. There was a distinct sense of betrayal over the matter
At the 8:42 mark you flash a picture of a group of laughing men; the young man most prominently featured there is Pier Giorgio Frassati, who was (among other things) a socialist and son of the owner and editor of "Il Stampa" newspaper, a prominent, anti-fascist paper paper in Italy. Frassati himself was no friend to the fascist (actually single-handedly fighting off a group of black shirts who broke into his home, thinking only his mother and sister were home), and was also an active member of the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, a Catholic lay organization which served people in poverty. He died at the age of 24 from polio (which was believed he contracted from one of the many families he regularly visited when he helped people). He was declared a "Blessed: by the Catholic church (a step toward sainthood) in 1990.
“What if we lived in the Harrison Bergeron dystopia”
@@mmi7004
Get out I'm trying to learn history with the boys
Don't let me even get started on the odds that there's a 14 years old revolutionary who is also 7 feet tall, is super strong, handsome, and apparently is "a genius". This really sounds like a teenager's fan fiction.
4:27 “Poland runs to Germany for aid”
If I wasn’t convinced this was an alternate timeline I am now
Sounds like Turtledove should've just done a novelization of the game "The Campaign for North Africa".
I have to say the one thing turtledove did right was showing how nationalistic and agressive the Polish regime was at the time. They were pretty infamous in the region for their actions and alienated a lot of potential allies.
The only issue I find is that I don't think Hitler would want anything to do with the Poles, considering what he viewed of their race. Lithuania would have been more likely to have become the ally in the region given Germany's failed past attempts in WW1 to form Osterland under Mindaugas II.
You know that Poland and Lithuania are the same race, right? Also, the only reason Germany didn't ally with the poles is the fact that they didn't give them danzing
@@klatos420 Lithuanians aren't slavs so they wouldn't have been
@@klatos420>hey Poland please surrender your majority ethnic Polish territory, give us unrestricted access to your only port and immeasurably improve our military and political position should we ever choose to engage in aggression in the future
>no
>reeee international jewish banking cartels have forced us into war
Rudolph Hess flies into Britain and somehow convinces the allies to stop fighting them and attack the soviets instead... yeah that's realistic. Not him being arrested and made a POW.
8:00 I mean, in Harry's defense... *it does.*
This is actually the first turtledove series I read kek
Same
heyyyyyy, I'm not the only one
That’s okay
0:37 I don't know what to feel about that but I am impressed with the imagination of humanity
the best thing about this is that scenario is wrong even at the start when poles attacked czechoslovakia because ,,reasons'' where in reality there litteraly said to french side that their army was ready for action if hitler declared war on czech side xD
+1
Poland did take Zaolzie from Czechoslovakia in the real timeline.
I heard Turtledove was biased against Poland
Dude,i Met your channel By the video of the 1984 World and i Loved it,You are one of Best alternate History channels out there. Greetings From Brazil
ISP, Alex the Rambler, and now Alt. History Hub, all in one day...
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Love the channel, congrats on 2 million
Turtledove truly is a recurring anime character
A very old character that may or may not be losing his shit.
Harry Turtledove gives me very Wattpad Fanfiction author vibes. I mean, Alternate History is basically fanfiction but he gives me intense fanfiction vibes.
This series is the biggest bruh moment in all of alternate history
rather watch a full colored Finno-Korean Hyperwar movie
When the Red Alert series is more entertaining than your alternate history novels, you know you messed up.
4:20 Poland didnt take region of Czechoslovakia for no reason. When in 1920 Poland was fighting soviets Czechs blocked weapons send from Hungary as help to Poland and they said that they will stop if Poland give them a part of Silesia. Polish government was in bad position so it agreed. In 1938 Poland just took its land back.
Guns of the South and the WW2 alien invasion series were solid, but my favorite work of his is the Ruled Britannia novel where the Spanish Armada does make it to England and takes over. The whole use of Elizabethan English and Shakespeare as the main character were great.
Alternate Future Hub when?
Honestly tho, I’d watch videos like that a dozen times over.
Love ya Cody keep up the good work you massive shitposter ❤️
He announced it and made the channel around 3 years and 5 months ago.
Loved that you used a Joe Haver clip!! Such a great content creator. Also loved the video!
The War that Came Early is still the only series of his that has a stand out character in my mind. That mean ass French NCO who is just the definition of "not my job to think about why this is happening, just to slay bodies"
Also do The Hot War. Interested to see your take on an atomic pissing match over radioactive Harbin.
Aristide Demange was a badass and don't you forget it.
God I love Demange. One of the best characters, just on his own. The German tank crew were all great as a group, but Sergeant/Lieutenant Demange were why I finished the series, because I wanted to know what happened to him.
Hot War was my second Turtledove series, and is still my second favorite of all time (Legion of Videssos is my top series)
I honestly LOVED Demange
Sergent later Lieutenant Demange was such a god damn badass. Here is a quote from him:
“Sure it will. So what?” Demange said. “We came here on account of some French jackass with a white mustache and fancy embroidery on his kepi told us to. If that same jerk, or another con just like him, says Stalin’s the hottest lay since Josephine Baker and we should make nice with him from now on, we fucking well will. That’s how the game is rigged, and you know it as well as I do.”
I think this is the first time we’ve ever heard Cody laugh 0:57 and I love it
That cover with himmler, mlk and ayatollah never fails to make me giggle 0:29
"Better dead then red" - Some giant robot
A little Spanish history add-on as a Spaniard myself:
If Sanjurjo would've survived the war would've ended way sooner, like, in months or in just a year.
One of the key decisions that took Franco to leadership was taking his armies away from Madrid, the capital, which was open without any defenses and would've almost collapsed the whole Republican effort. He instead sent then to rescue the Nationalist Garrison Divisions of Toledo, who were being besieged inside the Alcazar, a military fortification. This was a propagandistic move, as Franco lead a sentiment of saving those trapped in the Alcazar. After they were saved, Franco was seen as a hero of the army and the country, and propelled him to power. The downside was that Madrid and the Republican army were now fortified and ready, and the war would take years.
If Sanjurjo was alive, then there was no need for a propagandistic move as he was already in power. He would've taken Madrid and then steamrolled the Republic in one year's time
Cody, I send a ty to you and emperor for subjecting yourselves to this to us all the headache
I want somebody to clip this part of the video 7:55
That part of it made me laugh so hard I started crying.7:55/8:02
Can I just say. The animation and "memes" if you will in this video are top notch. Especially the soviets and French beating Germany. This style of video making is just great man, I live it 👍
I'm reading "How Few Remain" right now and, while it has some interesting ideas, it mostly reads like fan fiction about major characters of the 19th century? It's not "bad", but the characters are definitely not on the level of Ken Follett's historical books.
Yeah, that timeline is more fan fiction than anything else. I still personally enjoyed it, but it's not his best work by any stretch of the imagination. It draws a little too heavily from how events occurred in reality (down to having a Stalingrad type push and encirclement in Pittsburgh during the WW2 era, and to the North's best tank commander having a name almost identical to Erwin Rommel)
It was one of those things that I enjoyed while reading, and then I went back and looked at the timeline and I was like 'wait a minute'
That seems like the norm with Turtledove. The concepts he uses tend to be more interesting than what he actually does with them. And way too much of the "exactly the same events that happened in reality, but at a different time and place" stuff.
6:35 Finally seeing Joel Harver's vids used as a meme in another big youtuber's vids.... made my day
I like how it's pretty accurate to what would've happened to Germany in the first two books, then goes COMPLETELY off the rails in book 3.
Harry Turtledove is the George Lucas of alternate history - masterful at crafting wild, zany, captivating universes but god awful at dialogue and an obsession with cringey love plots
so 1st book: set up 2nd Book: whole lots of nothing happen 3rd book: complete Insanity. Got that right, did I?
That describes most modern series. Say what you will about old school speculative fiction but at least they knew how to put one story in one book.
8:10 why is there Robert E. Lee flying in the screen.XD
7:05 Harry Potter and the amazing plot twist that changes everything
Pre-7:50: OK, this kind of makes sense. Reminds me of a HOI4 playthrough I did as the UK once. I'm guessing the other three books will be about a war between the Allies and the Soviets after Germany dies?
7:50 onwards: *excuse me but what the actual heck*
Ya know I have my own troubled history with turtledove. See when I was a kid I was really into the myth of Atlantis and I remained so to this day so imagine my surprise when I found out the author of many alternate history classics sorted a trilogy about Atlantis and me being an idiot I thought the premise was basically what if the mysterious lost continent existed and was discovered during the early colonial era but nope turns out the premise what what of Florida broke away from the north American mainland millions of years ago, was found and colonized first, and then had every major historical event that happens to the United States happen to it instead. It's literally a Florida fan fic.
Where's Atlantis?
Girolamo Fracastoro: In the Caribic
Olof Rudbeck: Sweden
Ignatius Donnelly: In the Atlantic
Heinrich Himmler: Himalaya
Harry Turtledove: Florida
maybe you are joking. Ir wasn't just Florida. It was the whole eastern US.
0:42 Me yelling "NOO, NO!" NOO" like Michael from The Office after Toby came back.
Im getting ready to he stressed out by the Cowboys game so it's a good thing this came out. I needed some laughs early in the day lmao. The editing and jokes are great.
So no to drinking and driving -
Winston Chruchill
We won yay lmao
I remember having to do a book report on this series in 8th grade for some reason. I read the first book, skipped the rest, made up my own story, and somehow nobody noticed.
“Mum can we have WWII”
Mum: “We have WWII at home”
*WWII at home:*
4:08 If Poland didn’t have Beck as its foreign minister, Poles would most likely become an “ally” of Nazi Germany. In Hitlers writing and I believe Gobbles also , both saw Poland as a member of the Comintern , and a potential satellite state. But due to Becks staunch neutrality, uncompromising attitude in relation to the Polish corridor, and Britain and France promising aid in case of war, the Poles were pushed to the allies side.
The WorldWar series Turtledove did is awesome, but when you start reading it as a comedy about the most incompetent alien invaders in all of fiction, then it becomes gold.
I watched many videos of this channel but this,.. This is a PERFECT edited vid
7:25 Cody losing his insanity be like...
He KILL me
That was very scary tho
That paragraph at the end was so on the nose and painful lmao
i like how the 2nd part came before the 1st part
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*0:50* OMG I can already see the title, ''What if Stalin was born in the wrong Georgia''
7:44 We've all heard of the Deus Ex Machina, but this is a perfect example of a Diabolis Ex Machina; an extremely contrived plot twist created just to "keep things interesting".
Winston Churchhill dying in a drunk driving accident is honestly the most realistic part of these books. I'm kinda surprised the glorious old drunk didn't didn't go out in a drunken rampage in real life
Me playing HOI4 with historical turned off: *Hey, I've seen this one before*
Meanwhile WW2 begins in 1937 in my game
Keep up the great stuff
One of my "favorite" moments of a Turtledove book is when a Roman saves a woman from being raped by killing all her attackers, and then they decide to do the Devil's Tango in middle of all the corpses of the would-be rapists he just killed.
HOLY SHIT
That actually sounds freaking amazing XD
Churchill dying from a car accident was the funniest shit I've heard all day, and your choice of visuals made it even better.
I seem to recall Harry Turtledove himself mentioning at some point that he's not happy with this particular series on Twitter; and from what little of the books I've read I rather suspect he did it as a contractual obligation than any actual desire or interest in the scenario.
7:40 THE CUT OFF CHURCHILL SCREAM HAHAHA
Huh, I read the first book (back when it was only the one book and before it became a series) and thought it had a pretty reasonable ending given how Germany went off half-baked to war.
I had no idea it became a series, much less a six-parter that went in such... strange directions.
7:26 *WHY* tho. Love the detail of Churchill getting too turnt and whipping into a streetlamp
Thanks for the intro.
Never read these books.
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I love that the swas- wait, can I use that word on UA-cam?- was replaced with the UA-cam logo.
0:44 I wish I wasn’t in Dixie
By the time I had gotten about halfway through the 2nd book, I decided to just read the jacket cover synopsis and look at the maps.
with all these Harry Turtledove stuff i almost forgot that the guy is still alive today lmao
That character bit you mentioned is...yeah, looking back at the Turtledove I read before, it's more obvious that he doesn't have the grasp to write really interesting character dialogue and most of what you'd remember about them is more about their official POV in the events rather than the actual character themselves. "Oh that's Panzer guy, this is U.S. Navy seaman, here's the spy, etc.".