Adventurer's Arsenal | Boromir's Shield
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2024
- In the Lord of the Rings, Boromir has an iconic round shield. But is Boromir's Shield a good design for a fantasy Adventurer?
Yes it is.
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In the book Boromir did use his shield when defending Merry and Pippin, but during the fight it broke. His sword also broke.
"His cloven shield, his broken sword, they to the water brought." What a legend.
@@morgansmith1930damn did he have the shield with him when he died in the book? I need to reread that chapter later. But yeah, way too many orcs in even if he had the shield and too many arrows as well, way more than the 3 shot in the film.
Sigh,!great character even if he had to die for his sin and temptation
@@morgansmith1930 In all the books this is Tolkien's *only* mention of Boromir having a shield. It's not mentioned at Rivendell or in the battle in Moria, in any of the descriptions of the battle in which he dies, or in the description of how he's laid in the boat at Rauros, or when Faramir sees him in the boat floating in the river. But I note that in the movies he fights with his shield over his back - not a terribly efficient way to use the thing. But the Rohirrim do pretty much the same in their charge before the walls Minas Tirith - they have them hanging alongside the horse, rather than carrying them. Obviously nobody taught shield use to the actors and extras.
He had almost the same death as Roland the Frank in the medieval epic, the Song of Roland. Roland faces countless Moors on the hills of the Pyrenees and when he is about to die, he breaks his sword so no Moor can take it as spoil. He also blew his war horn so Charlemagne and his army would hear and return to help(Roland commanded the rear guard as they were retreating from Spain), but the king didn't make it in time.
@@stevenlowe3026not true, we literally get a POV shot in Moria of Boromir using his shield and sword in that fight, he only didn’t have his shield during the battle of Amon Hen as in the movie he was out getting wood when he was tempted by the ring and didn’t have time to retrieve his shield before rescuing Merry and Pippin
Don't shield us from the truth, you just wanted to show off your shield
Hahahaha
It's a beautiful shield innit.
Understandable honestly, I’d want to show it off too if I had one.
I would say that Boromir kit taken as a whole is pretty good for an adventurer. In terms of armor gambeson, maille and a shield is very respectable. The only thing that he was actually missing (IMHO) is a helmet of some sort. The absence of the helm is more due to directorial decisions than what Boromir in practice would have opted for. Hollywood hates covering up the faces of their actors which is how we ended up with Ridley Scott's compromise in "The Last Duel". Great video! :)
There are helmets which leave the face uncovered, vision and breathing unobstructed.
@@hanelyp1 True! Yet there is a considerable reluctance to make use of them. I loved the helm for The Hound in Game of Thrones and we saw it like twice?
This was a very clear artistic decision to not have certain characters wear helmet. Although as all the characters from Rohan and Gimli wear open faced helmets it is one that I don't necessarily agree with.
@@adambielen8996 They are travelling in secret not riding to war - a helmet is heavy, annoying to carry and wear, may catch the light and reveal your position, stop you from hearing properly etc. If you could have a helm for a battle you'd obviously want it, but not taking one in this situation does make sense - you have weapons and lighter more comfortable armour for some level of protection, as you do want to have some hope if you get into trouble. But your not set up to be front soldiers only skirmisher/scout.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 Considering the sheer variety of helmets that have existed that statement is way too broad and a number of points are just irrelevant. For one it might catch light? Boromir has metal all over that could already do that. And there are numerous types of helmets that don't cover the ears and most would probably be lighter than his mail hauberk. And in history scouts and skirmishers would usually wear helmets.
Ngl the shield just makes anybody look badass too. The general design, though not fully accurate to real history, definitely works well considering Boromir probably fights in close combat and needs to move a lot. I think that's noticeable in the flashback to Osgiliath where I THINK he uses the Gondorian shields that kinda look like travel-size Roman scutums (but in metal). It also makes sense considering he is fighting in an urban situation (Osgilliath) and is probably ambushing in tight streets and alleyways. Needless to say PJ costume and prop design is top notch.
Definitely
I really love the question this poses: I wonder what good urban combat kit for the medieval world would look like?
Another advantage to this type of shield construction, particularly if you are lightly armored: arrows will often penetrate a wooden shield, sometimes by an inch or two, sometimes by more (Tod's Workshop has some great videos of ballistic testing of various types of armor and shields). Being able to hold the shield out away from your body when you are under fire, while having your hand protected by the steel dome, makes it less likely that an arrow that penetrates the wood will stick into your forearm or body.
yeah, for that reason I think forearm straps are anachronistic since a primary function of a large shield is to stop arrows. strapped shields definitely existed, mind, but they tended to have a center-grip option and/or a sling to support from the shoulder and extend with the hand.
There's another advantage to that type of shield construction when facing off against an opponent who's using a hacking or slashing weapon, too. If the enemy splits your shield, besides that style of grip reducing the risk of injury to your arm, it can also be used reactively to gain a tactical advantage, since you can take advantage of the blade being stuck in your shield to do a sudden twist that could potentially disarm your opponent or pull them off-balance so they can't counter your follow-up attack.
It's also a reason why a lot of axe-wielding fighters used bearded axes in combat. Besides the bearded design allowing the axe to have a lighter weight, the beard could also be used as a hook to grab an enemy's weapon or shield and try to disarm them.
@@CivilWarMan you can hook without a beard, it just won’t do any hurt.
On Boromir's shield being a little too big to be carried while on foot, he initially set out from Gondor on horseback and lost his horse along the way.
So, if you're adventuring from horseback with fairly light gear, that shield would be a great addition to carry. It's neither too big nor heavy to be difficult to carry around, and it is big enough to use on foot or horse.
It's a great jack-of-all-trades shield.
My exact thoughts. Especially with a horse I don't see why you wouldn't take it, I mean it's relatively light and it has a strap to wear across the body
Round shields are less likely to injure a horse, as demonstrated by the Riders of Rohans' preference for them.
That makes no historical sense .. the kite shield historically developed specifically for horse back. And there’s no evidence they hurt horses …
Rohirrim use round shields because Tolkien based them off of Germanic Saxon/Norse culture who used round shields
9:15 If I remember correctly, Boromir arrives in Rivendell on horseback so he probably wouldn't have originally planned to travel in dense forest where no horse would walk easily to begin with. That said he could have picked up a better fitting shield in Rivendell.
Great vid as always!
Another good gage is to measure from shoulder to the knee
Well, that was one part VERY different from the book 😅
He didn't. He lost his horse in his way to rivendell if I remember correctly. At least in the book, maybe was changed in the movies
@@Glimmlampe1982 I know, but we're talking about the movies here. And since even in the books he departed on horse my point still stands I think.
@@Angrenost02 The horse he lost in Tharbad he borrowed when he travelled through Rohan.
That said, you are right that your point stands. He does turn up at the council dressed ready for horse travel, and it takes iirc 5 days to ride between Minas Tirith and Rohan going at a fast clip on a horse that isn't Shadowfax, so likelihood is he changed horses there rather than starting off walking and picking up a horse later.
The one issue you failed to address, is using the edge of the shield as a striking weapon. One example is to turn the shield hand and thrust the edge into your opponent's face as a boxer does in a jab! Highly effective when it connects or to create room to engage your weapon causing a fast opponent to retreat even a small amount. Also the weapon will be free to defect a counter underneath the thrust if your enemy counters at the same time.
yup, I hit to the jaw from the edge of the shield is very effective at staggering/stunning someone. And it doesn't take much force either.
EXACTLY! One of my weapon combos of choice is the 13th century German medieval 1-handed Arming Sword and 13" round steel Buckler shield. And one thing I train on is using the buckler with powerful directed haymaker-like swinging motions of the left arm. And as I do so, I hold the buckler shield flat like an aeroplane wing to effectively 'chop' into the neck, head, shoulder or weapon-wieldeing arm of the opponent. The strike is done with the buckler shield's rounded edge as a blunt-force trauma attack.
To keep it simple, I call these 'bird-wing' strikes with the shield.
But this also lends an additional benefit that I don't often see others mention:
As the buckler shield comes in toward someone's neck, throat or chin let's say, it may miss, BUT, as it basses by just withint the downward peripheral vision of my opponents, it momentarily blocks them from seeing anything down in front of them. That's the perfect opportunity to go land a direct straightforward sword or spear thrust to his chest, abdomen, etc as long as the weapon comes in under your shield as it quickly drifts passt your opponent's face. So, either way, you land a crit-hit on him.
And even better still, you can do the same thing even as the shield edge atually hits his upper targets in a bird-wing strike. That then becomes a devastating 2-hit combo both on upper and mid- or lower-level body targets all at once. Your opponent will get annihilated when this happens.
Anyway, just some FYI in the arena of medieval battle tactics for the consideration of all ye my fellow adventurers here.
Than you.
From my understanding by asking reenactment vikings, the size of the shield is half the height of it's user. Amazingly enough, I'll be making 3 shields over the next few weeks, so this video came out in perfect time with my builds.
Hmm interesting tidbit, though I wonder how well that really works at the extremes of people size - the shorter folk might find it too tall for comfort still, and the larger folk will have a really darn huge disk - Which if they are the more Dutch style tall and spindly could well end up really rather wider than they can handle and even for the broadest and most powerfully built of tall people perhaps too awkward to move around with - just laid out that size in relation to me and it seems far far to big to actually manoeuvrer through doors etc.
@foldionepapyrus3441 the reason for the 1/2 height measurement was for 2 reasons. 1. So it would protect the person next to you in the shield wall and 2. If you were under archer fire, you can squat/kneel and be fully covered. Un like the scottish targe that is at most 22".
in my warband (Drafn/SCA) we use a standard 36" for war. for duels, the size corresponds to a persons height because too much coverage is kinda cheating😁. just depends on how much mobility and defense a fighter is comfortable with. i made a 28" round for myself, but im like 5'4'' so its a little too big for me for our thing, its good for someone over 6 feet tall
@@winterknightwarden8543 Only so wide a shield really has to be to work in a shield wall I'd suggest no matter how big the person holding it is - I'd think that adding over 10 inch to the one shown here is going beyond the amount of extra width a bigger person needs by rather more than required.
As for cover the shield doesn't have to get wider as fast it gets taller for anybody to crouch behind it - a more oval or kite shape starts to really seem like the better choice.
I've always always heard and experienced "From your palm to the center of your bicep" for the Radius.
Worth keeping in mind that if you're using a weapon and a shield, you actually have two weapons. Bashing isn't a shield's primary (or intended) purpose, but getting hit by a shield, whether the face or the edge, is gonna hurt quite a bit.
Just thought of the Game of thrones scene in s1 where Tyrion used a shield as a weapon 😆
bashing with a shield is pretty useless actually, if you do want to use a shield offensively, you'd want want to punch with the rim.
Sorta, but you could argue that the extra surface area would make it a pretty defensive bash if it came to it, one that basically pushes weapons 'n stuff back in the process (also if you don't have any steel bracers/gauntlets, it'd be the closest you can get to backhanding with an armored limb). Also gut feeling tells me that when people are referring to bashing, they're specifically thinking about punching with the rim, so there's that as well.@@windhelmguard5295
@@windhelmguard5295 Metal dome to the face still hurts. Some even have spikes on the dome. A flat shield would be rater pointless to bash someone with other then to push them though.
@@znail4675 problem is that you encounter a lot of air resistance bashing with a big round shield. punching with the rim doesn't have this issue.
It's not about the size, it's about how you use it.
That's what I keep telling myself
I do think Bucklers are pretty cool.
@@umontortlethey're "just the right size"
@@patrickbateman3146 Aye, my guy!
It's about the girth of your shield sir! * snickers *
Having fought with a similar shield often, the shield is meant mainly as a parrying shield in a way that was later used with bucklers.
Bracing the shield on your shoulder and getting to a low stance you can quite effectively tank a bodycheck by a person of greater weight than yourself.
Also, don't forget that vikings often used their shields in an offensive manner in skirmish or duel combats, punching and striking with it to unbalance an opponent and in some recorded contemporary stories even lacerating an opponent's face or breaking their jaws from their skulls (or getting it done to themselves due to poor skill).
Personal testing revealed a shield with 2 layers of thinner planks, crossed over each other at 90 degrees is much more solid than a single layer, and linnen glued to both sides increases that durability even more, in this case the shield construction would be less expendable than Saga sources make viking shields out to be (where a duel would be fought with 3 shields per participant and there being many references to a shield being sacrificed to save one's life).
I'd say I agree that a smaller, domed shield of this style would be the preferred adventurer's shield in most generic Euro-centric fantasy settings.
But it also makes sense for Vikings to have spare shields along when raiding as they do break making sense of a limit when dueling as else one could use all their friends spare shields for infinite shields.
In my humble opinion, the Mamluk archer's shield would be excellent for a ranger character. The shield is of a very intelligent design and is usually 18"-20" in diameter.
Handle is usually made of thick cord at the center grip. There are also cords attached for binding the shield to the wrist and forearm, as well as a cord to carry over the shoulder. With training, one can operate a bow with the shield strapped to the bow arm. Especially advantageous if the adventurer is horse-mounted.
I wish you all the success with your channel! Thanks for the great content!...
Not only that but Mamluk and Ottoman Mirror Armor looks amazing.
You're getting up there in subscribers, Kramer. I am really happy for you, as well as excited for what is to come when you are able to do this full time without worry!
Thank you Victor!
Excellent video!
Have you ever considered breaking down/reviewing the Fellowship's armaments, equipment, and fights from the books? Not the major battles but the smaller fights and skirmishes we see.
My shield of choice for LARP and SCA as well as other recreations has always been the 24" round shield. I got quite accomplished with it, if I do say so myself. To this day I prefer a shortsword with the round shield. I have used a larger round, 28" in diameter, also with shortsword...awesome combination. Yes, I've used single-hand broadswords with them. No fan of the bastard or two-hand swords personally. Sorry. One of my favorite topics. :) Huzzah! Nearly 50 years using these. No regrets. Guige strap makes it easy to sling. Good vid.
I agree. Short sword in hand with hand axe in reserve is my choice and actually use the same size shield.
Most of my opponents aren't prepared for the versatility of the shield as a weapon in and of itself.
Yes. That's the thing; the shield is a weapon too, although most groups won't let you edge smack people for safety reasons. Back in the early SCA the sword and small round shield was common on the West Coast. I still love the combo.@@kennyjuengel2488
Anglo Saxon and Carolingian art show domed shields. I personally prefer center grip shields.
Nice larp shield and the centre-grip is better than the original movie prop which was probably made like that to make it easier for Sean or the stuntmen to use it with heavy gloves and vambraces.
Boromir and Gimli actually took the doomsday expedition into the unknown seriously. They both actually wore armour, Gimli even had a fucking helmet! Boromir took a good versatile general purpose round shield. I'd have made the Hobbits take short spears, they can still keep their knives. I'd have encouraged Aragorn to capitalize on the fact he's in fucking Rivendell and swap out his hunting bow and 3 arrows for a light war bow and a full quiver of high quality arrows. He literally uses his bow like 3 times in the fucking trilogy.
The last several vids have really been a step up in both production and content. And the garb looks great in 4k
Another great one, Laddie.
When resting in the field, stand your shield with the face up against a tree, and the grip facing you. Makes it easier to grab and go!
The shield looks ornate enough it could be an older heirloom which is a cool idea considering rohan and gondor have old history together.
Or Boromir dressed so that it wouldn't be easily obvious that he was from Gondor while traveling through Rohan. In the books the idea that Rohan may join the enemy is very strong idea early on.
It also correlates to Tolkien’s love for Anglo Saxon history which shields walls were important and more widespread. He just wished they were more cavalry based which is what the Normans did better than the Anglo Saxon. Hence the Rohirrim are his dream culture of Anglo Saxons on horses.
Always loved shields though in whatever form. My personal favorite is a kite shield
I carry around a 36" diameter shield, being 5'8", and I have no issues in the woods or while walking around normally. Though my shield is a lot heavier than it *should* be, being about 10 pounds instead of 5. It took some strength training to get used to that, but thanks to that I'm able to use a properly weighted shield even more easily.
Some years ago I made my own viking shield, 36" across, 1/4" plywood, a steel shield boss and a rawhide edge wrap. It weighs somewhere around 10 pounds.
@@Asertix357 Correction: 11 pounds. I just weighed it. It's half-inch pine plywood, steel boss, linen glued to both faces, and leather nailed to the rim with a leather strap to carry it.
When I played D&D 2nd edition back in the mid to late 90s, my favorite character was a fighter and I distinctly remember having him carry a medium sized round shield instead of a kite shield. This was before the Lord of the Rings movies had come out and before I ever listened to the audio books for Lord of the Rings.
love another LOTR video
I love how you take the time to search out all the pros and cons on your gear. Please keep up the great job and stay warm this winters season.
It would be interesting to test wearing a shield of a realistic weight. Foam shields can give a false impression about ease of carry. I've tried walking with a realistic viking shield strapped to my back. It's doable but need to consider weight, and that it's rigid and unforgiving where it contacts you.
Awesome fact about the Hilt and Pommel of Viking swords! I never thought about why they're the shape they are, and it makes complete sense to be shaped to aid in bracing their shields in a shield wall.
New camera or lighting? The video looks fantastic!
New Camera!
The center grip seems to have good versatility, and be a little better in duels. Strapped shields have advantages, but they are usually of a size that makes carrying them while trekking up and down mountains less than ideal. in short, I agree with Kramer.
I think for small and light shields, I would prefer a center grip, but for large and heavy shields, I would prefer it to be strapped.
In the film Boromir's shield is faced in leather, but in real life it would be far more practical to face a shield with linen. It still helps hold the shield together against splits, while being SIGNIFICANTLY lighter than leather.
Not going to be as hard wearing to the abrasions it takes on the road though. I'd also suspect leather is more effective composite structure than the linen - both make the thin wood a viable shield, but the leather probably holds up to more abuse. Plus leather does come in very thin if you want it too - so while I'd still expect it to be heavier it may not be that much heavier - a trade off you may or may not want to take. And for myself I think I'd take the leather for a shield of that size and journey so far from home -a little more durable makes a great deal of sense when you may not see a town from which you can get replacements for ages.
One could also argue that a heavier shield can sometimes be a good thing, but mainly just in terms of clobbering foes with the rim. More weight tends to mean more force, to an extent at least.
From the videos I've watched, shields weren't faced with leather, they were faced with rawhide. While it's still made from animal hides, it's much thinner than usual leather and is incredibly tough. I've watched videos of people making rawhide faced shields and testing them with the kinds of weapons a viking would have been faced with and it held up remarkably well.
I didn't think I needed to know this. But I did lol thank you. Very thorough.
It always feels like a treat when you release a new episode. Also, your garb looks so aesthetically pleasing I this episode. I love the red, black, and brown look, I may use this as inspiration for whenever I piece together an outfit for myself.
3:56 Ok, I was not expecting to casually hear that sentence once in my life haha
Great video as always !
Awesome as always! I hope you do cover Faramir (and his Rangers) in depth soon, they were always my favourite.
Yes! The Rangers of ithilien should be explored!
And the Rangers that Aragon came from. I'm really interested in them, but I don't really know anything about them
As always Kramer, great presentation! Crisp, clean and brilliantly articulated. An imposing and impressive screen presence with regards to your presentational persona.
I was the lead designer for Boromir's Shield, Sword and armour in the films. The reason the handle is bowed out and not in line with the plain of the shield was because the boss was flatter than you would usually have. This was an aesthetic choice by the director and required a function follows form adjustment to the shield design. It does make the angular forces on the shield harder to control and in a perfect world you wouldn't make a shield, weapon or armour worse to use to look better, but that is the film world for ya:) Hope this is informative
Ben Wootten Designer on LOTR trilogy
It may be a late comment, but the intricacies of viking shields is really cool. Part of viking sword and board combat is focused on the pivoting of your shield, your enemies shield, having your enemy get his sword stuck and trapped in the soft edges of your shield, etc. a move I particularly love is where one would basically shield strike the center line side of the opponents shield to turn it and open the opponent to your sword arm, whilst the shield and centerboss of the shield keeps his sword arm at bay
I laughed out loud at "I feel safe behind it. Even thought it's... foam." 😂
Love the video!
A round shield of those dimensions makes for an excellent defensive tool, but is just as good on the offense. You can deflect and bind your opponent's weapon with it, punch them with the rim of the shield, charge in and bash with the front. The center grip round shield is what I use in Belegarth and LARP, mine is 27 inches around and I'm 6'1", and it is my best friend. You do have a major disadvantage with a round shield as a taller person, and that is protecting your right leg as a right handed fighter. The geometry makes that leg an attractive target, so I recommend wearing greaves if you have them available to you.
If you have to choose between a sword and a shield, take the shield.
This isn't an anime Mr hero.
Funny you mentioned the Targe at the end, bc I always thought that the Targe paired with a basket hilted broadsword and dirk and hand axe would make a great adventurer’s kit. Pair it with a Morion or Lobster-backed helmet, gambeson and maile, and some greaves with poleyns to protect the knees, especially from side cuts, and you would have a great panoply for the warrior adventurer, at least in places that weren’t hot, that balances armor protection with maneuverability, weight, and heat so one could do all the things adventurers would be required to do like hike, climb, camp, walk and ride long distances, etc. One would still have good vision, hearing and ability to breathe easily. And if needed, one could take off the most cumbersome armor and put it in a sack to either carry or hoist separately if, say, one needed to scale a wall or rock face. One problem the adventurer warrior would most always face is being out-armed and armored by those he is fighting- as an adventurer his kit has to take into account an ability to travel and camp in it, and be generalist in nature, as he would be moving through different terrain, climates, cultures and everything from wilderness to cities. So it has to be adaptable. Whereas his opponents would most likely be locals whose kit could be specifically designed for the locale, and be heavier since they are not adventuring but on their home turf.
Enjoyable with good information, as always. Thank you.
Talking about my favorite topic are you? well i had a big smile on my face throughout the video. This was so good.
That shield brace with the crossguard was interesting and I think it's actually the key reason why the viking swords looked like they did.
Another thing to consider: Round shields like this aren't just viking shields.
Small Shields like this made a comeback in the rennaisaunce as Targes and Rotellas. With all the fascination with Romans in that time period, fencers had a renewed interest in these sorts of shields.
I wouldn't consider there being anything unusual about Boromir's sword, it's not "viking" at all, it's just a regular arming sword, which makes sense. The standard arming sword is an evolution of the "viking" era sword, they share the same lineage.
Is it a good choice for this context? Absolutely....as long as you actually carry it. Ultimately the best gear is the gear you have with you, and if he wasn't willing to always have it with him, maybe thats an argument against it. But had he had it with him against Lurtz, things might have gone differently.
Viking-age center gripped shields aren suited for the static method of fighting required by the stereotypical overlapping shieldwall. They are very much meant to be used actively in the defense, and this is where the centre grip shines as it allows the wielder of the shield to use it more flexibly.
The video I’ve been waiting for!
Boromir's sword was also a Type XIV. Basically a combo between a Gladius and Ulfbehrt sword. A broad blade with a finely tapered tip, it is friendly to both the cut and thrust. With a curved guard, I think it would work better with a large center grip round shield, which may get in the way of a cruciform guard, unless the shield had straps instead.
Great video! I'm a 5'8" guy and when I fought in the SCA I used a 25" round, center grip. Mine was flat, rather than domed, but I loved it. I only did single combat and small groups up to 5v5, but I did have a friend borrow it to take to a war and he said it performed really well. Mine was half inch thick which made it take the blows better, and it was small enough it was still light and quick enough to be effective. I usually fought with a one hand axe, but when I did use a sword it was 24" blade. Since I was on the shorter side, but still a stocky/strong fighter I would let them get in close and then that length was great, while I just kept the shield in the way of their sword arm.
I'm really digging your new 'winter' ranger/adventurer's garb setup in the latest videos Kramer! Looking good!
Thanks John!
Another great video...keep them coming
I've been a fan of Shad for a long time. I've been introduced to your channel from Shadiversity, and I absolutely love your content so far! Subbed and I look forward to seeing the content you put out as well :D
Love the new camera setup!
Thank you!
I have a shield I made from real wood and metal rimmed that’s very similar size and have worn it around all day. Definitely could continue doing that and adventuring in it. I think it would make a great adventurers shield
A couple of points about *convex* (bowl-shaped) round shields. They did exist in the early Middle Ages - there are *plenty* of representations of them in contemporary art. Having fought with one (metal weapons, wooden shield with a fabric covering) I discovered that the bowl shape coveys significant advantages. First, they provide considerably better visibility than a flat round shield, because as thebowl curves back toward you, you can see better over the top - the top of a flat shield obscures your vision just when and where you need it most. Secondly, a bowl-shaped shield acts as a sort of shock-absorber, flexing with a blow rather than transmitting it directly to the bearer. I love 'em.
In the Third Age video game on the original Xbox it’s called a: Scout Shield. Meaning just for someone going off on their own or small parties and just need something to help defend themselves incase of a fight.
This is EXACTLY the confirmation I needed thank you!
@@LivingAnachronism you’re welcome. It’s just a starting shield and by the end we have one of the elven kite shields as one of the top shields to use in the game. The Gondorian Scout Shield is just what it is in the movie. Something light and small enough for just one warrior on their own to easily use and bring with them.
Yeah! More videos on shields!
If you are planning shield type analysis in future videos, might I suggest exploring shields used by archers that could be planted in the ground and used as a protective barrier to cover the archer while shooting. You do not see much coverage of these shields, but it seems they would be an interesting addition to archer units in LARP events. Archers typically carried arming swords as a last line of defense so examining how these shields would be employed in the event the archers were forced into a melee situation would also be interesting to explore.
Very enjoyable video. 🍻
I believe you're referring to the pavisse. Those were used mainly by crossbowman, if I understand it correctly, because of their low rate of fire. English Longbowman did use obstacles to protect themselves from horsemen but seemed to have preferred to rely on their rate of fire over such massive shields. They did carry small buckler sized shields (about the size of a pot lid) to use with their swords and hatchets if they got forced into melee.
These shield-typs, called "Pavese" was very popular in the southern and middle regions of the holy roman empire and in northern Italy, but mostly not for archers but for crossbowmen in the (I hope I remember right) 15th and beginning 16th century.
Yo I can't wait for that targe to appear again in another video!
I love hearing about the kits the fellowship used in the films and books. Makes me want to reread and rewatch them all!
Great analysis
Not bad, it' a bit small for an infantry roundshield but Boromir rode in so it's probably so it can be sued on horseback too. A oblong shield would serve him better there but would be less useful on foot.
Howdy! A comment to appease the algorithm.
Super video, gadzooks! The ingenuity of our ancestors is always interesting to discover. And the Incredibly Painstaking Way Peter Jackson, and everybody who worked on LOTR, took to make it as historically accurate/adaptable as possible will forever be treasured. 🙏🧡🍻⚔️🛡️
Correction:
Shield walls are very doubtful, the evidence for them is close to zero, a few references that might be interpreted that way, if i remember correctly.
It's questionable if Viking shield typically were covered in anything. If they are, it very likely wasn't leather but very thin rawhide. The found shields that were archeologically found showed color pigments on the wood. So either it was just bare wood, or covered with thin rawhide (which if thin enough can be treated to be translucent)
I was looking for a comment like this. Most mentions of shield walls can refer to any kind of shield wall, including simply a row of people with shields (which would describe any formation with shields). The interlocking shields part is something that makes sense for a tight formation with those shields, so that's what people latched on to, even if it's not the only possibility.
Such a well rounded take, on a guarded subject.
I designed a dungeons and dragons weapon for wizards. It's a magical melee weapon shaped like a tome that uses intellect for damage instead of strength.
I call it "Book Club"
Curious, I've designed a book that opens into a shield.
No mention of the properties of Limewood yet. Theng Thrand goes into detail on this in one of his videos, namely that Limewood bends rather than breaks even went bent along/with the grain and this even though very light and fairly soft it is an ideal wood for shields
I was going to say the same. The Anglo-Saxons often used the term 'Linden-board' as a synonym for a shield. (Linden is another name for the Lime tree - Note the 'Unter den Linden' - a thoroughfare in the Mitte district of Berlin, Germany. It is named after the Linden trees (known as Limes in the UK and Ireland, and not related to citrus Lime.
Sorry I’m a day late an buck short watching your vid Kramer it was an awesome video. I was thinking about that targe shield my friend had me fix his a while ago it was a good shield for larping.
I'm not an experienced in any sort of armoured/shielded fighting but I would agree with your points across the board. Mostly though thank you for pointing out how unfun it would have been to travel with. Many of the fellowship's kits looked entirely too heavy to carry over those distances. I've done 110 lbs 12 miles at good pace and I thought I was going to die, Gimli is an ANIMAL!
13:15 I'd asume Gimli was the strongest member of the fellowship.
Hi just saw your video and channel first time, and I really liked your video. Not that I am an expert in medieval weaponry but you are a very good speaker and presenter of information and opinion and I applaud you for it. Your comments on the movie shield and comparison to real life examples as well as theories based on not just history but your own experiment in what I can assume is medieval re-enactments battles, seems very logical and plausible to a lay person like me. Well done.
Man I really should reread the trilogy, even ages since I did.
I have mixed feelings about Peter Jackson adaptation but I cannot deny the directing and acting were top notch, along with the costumes and weapon/armor details
Thank you Jedi Lord Wong!
@@LivingAnachronism just a question, in this video I noticed for the first time that Boromir was wearing what seems to be chainmail under his clothes which are only seen via the sleeves. How heavy is chainmail generally? Assuming Sean Bean’s size of course, I think his mail is probably similar to Frodos in the sense it covers his chest like a shirt, as opposed to being long like Aragorn wears later in 2 towers
When the arrows start flying your shield never seems big enough.
10:50
An interesting part of that is that the stereotypical viking shield was unlikely to suffer from this as it was in part designed to effectively "catch" the opponents sword.
These things would often be made so that if your opponent swung at the shield carelessly their weapon could easily get stuck, allowing you to potentially pull them off balance or even wrench it out of their hand. Thats also part of why they would often lack metal rims, it forced the opponent to be very careful with their bladework since it is really easy for a weapon to get stuck like that.
Going back to the idea that a domed shape would deflect the enemy weapon into yourself, that would only really happen if the edge didnt contact the wood or leather at all or if it was really blunt since the edge would be really likely to bite into the shield. That said, I can see why people would assume this to be a issue since a blunt larp sword could totally be deflected like you described since it cant bite into the shield like the real thing.
Vikings were not the only ones to use round shields. In fact my personal opinion borimirs shield looks more Anglo-Saxon than Norse.
Yes, absolutely. I was hoping he would mention that but he didn't. It also goes well with Tolkien's specific sympathies and greatest historical love.
I would think kalkans would be ideal shields for an adventurer, as it was used by nomadic groups and is so versatile. There are versions that are both strapped and center grip at the same time (that I've seen in museum pictures).
Weight is always an important factor in adventure. Sadly, many games and game masters do not understand how much that choice should matter.
I would never take a Gondor's tower shield on a long trek on my own.
Great breakdown thank you! It really does seem to be a good adventuring shield both useful and sweet looking. Just watched Fandabidozi's Targe video which was great so it would be awesome to get your perspective on it as well!
As someone roughly the size Boromir was according to Tolkien (6'5/197 cm), it would be somewhat challenging to find a shield big enough for me to match the proportions. As a kid, I did quite a lot of "sword fighting" with my friends, using a matched set of plastic swords and shields I had bought at a dollar store. While we didn't have any sort of formal training, experience in those play fights taught me that the shield was about as useful for offense as for defense, as if I drew my opponent's attention with a diversionary sword stroke, they would often leave themselves open for a shield blow to the face.
Great video! Really interesting stuff. Would be interesting, since you comment on size for carrying, to look at Link's Hylian shield especially from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. It seems more compact, while also being a very different shape and straps to his arm which changes up the conversation I think. Especially with some of the ways he uses his shield in Twilight Princess. And since Link is in many ways an adventurer, I think Zelda-themed stuff on the channel could be thematically fitting
A roundshield is good for someone who is agile and can fight from a dynamic crouch. A centergrip round lets you extend the shield further towards your foe without diminishing its breadth (a sidemount round becomes linear as you extend it), which places it more towards the angle of incidence of your opponent's swordblows, effectively magnifying its size. Centergrips also require a lot of hand-strength, or they become a liability. (I love it when someone has a centergrip shield and can't control it! I just throw a blow into the trailing edge and it opens them up like a door.)
If you tend towards a more sessile, erect manner of fighting, then a larger side-mounted shield is better. This also lets you get your body behind both the blocks and shield punches.
Thank you for the great video.
If I were an adventurer in a fantasy world, with a 99% probability I would take with me a hoplon (or any other similar one and covered with metal), and not any other shield. Because if a wooden shield without a metal coating pierces something (spear/javelin) in the middle of the battle and gets stuck there, it will become useless and will have to be thrown away until the battle is over.
"Hey, Kramer dude. Have you ever killed a man before?"
I've always liked the idea of a 24" or so inch round center gripped shield for an adventurer. If it was me, I'd add enarms/straps as well (I'd mount them at 90 degrees to the center grip so that the grip rides below the forearm when using the enarms) just for versatility.
One of the video games based on the films the Third Age refers to Boromir’s style of shield as Gondorian Scout Shield. Just thought I would put that out there
A slip knot (done the wrong way) would make it easy to get a shield off
Very interesting video.
Also the light wood was ment to tilt the shield on glancing blows, deflecting the weapon. Also for direct hit, the opponit was ment to cut into the shield. Then a small pivot will lock there weapon into your shield, effectively disarming your opponent.
That is why most accurate viking shields have rawhide around the rim, not a metal band. (Though bars acrost the back to reinforce the middle happened)
Some have spikes on them so when you shield punch with the edge you stab, but that risks your shield getting stuck on your opponents.
One thing that might be interesting is the "shield skirting" that a lot of round shields have had some depictions of having added in.
The cloth or leather piece that seems tacked on to hang under the shield to near the ground...
No real clue what all it was for, just that I've seen it in artwork of vikings, greeks, and several other cultures using larger round shields
The grip on Boromir's shield is probably raised for balance. I made a steel buckler out of a domed barbecue lid with a center grip in a boss made of a fork lift hub cap. The center of gravity is too far back on my wrist, and makes it difficult to hold vertical. My cure is to move the grip further from the boss to have it align with the center of gravity.
Some other benefits/aspects about a round, center-grip shield of this size range:
-Rides a happy medium between 'very large and protective, yet cumbersome and less wieldy', and 'nimble and compact, yet requires a more active and agile wielder for effective use'.
-Historical shields which Boromir's is based on may well have had the planks aligned specifically to actually allow an opponent's bladed weapon to 'bite' deeper into their shield, and suddenly being wrenched and controlled by the shield bearer. Obviously, this trait is not exactly available for LARP, but you get the idea.
-Furthering the point made in the video about the maneuverability of this style shield, one could used the edge of the shield as an extension of the arm to interact with their opponent or their weapon(s)/limbs, or even to deliver strikes.
In other words, this shield does exceptionally well in the hands of a pro-active wielder who does not solely rely on a passive defense. It's great at aiding one in creating opportunities, as opposed to simply waiting for them.
The thing with parrying is also that a skilled warrior can use that large, metal bos on the center of the shield to block hits.
The Bronze age Conan comics always depicted him carrying this exact type of shield and spoke often about why he preferred this design. That must have left an impression on me as I have always loved Boromir's shield, I think it might be the nicest piece of kit in the movie.
I think I read somewhere that the Saxons used smaller shields earlier in the migration era and that they used them in a more active defence.
The best shield is the biggest one you can fight with.
I don't know if it's practical, but it is the most beautiful prop made for the LotR movies. If I could have any prop from any of those films that would be it.
16:03 ah yes the Pizza Shield, clearly from Italy
Ok, i'm going, i'm going....
Despite a prevailing impression that shields would be rimmed in iron, there is little archaeological evidence for this, and iron rims would have increased weight and craftsmanship costs considerably.
The only fragment of what has been interpreted as an iron rim was found at Baldursheimur Iceland, only being 3 1/2 inches long.
Smaller iron clamps might have been used to repair damaged sections of the shield. Iron nails certainly existed.
As a long time LARPer who is just starting to get involved in viking reenactment combat, I enjoyed this episode.
Currently making my own shield for use in combat, it will be a smaller duelling shield rather than a line fight shield(what we affectionately term a war door). One thing to note, is a viking shield is flat, and not domed like the LARP shield, so the deflection issue, isnt so much a worry.
Another thing, is when fighting in a shield wall, you would rotate the shield 90 degrees so the handle ia horizontal, making it easier to maintain your overlap with your neighbour if someone tries to knock your shield out of the line.
A viking shield is NOT light. That centre iron boss is weighty. So it isn't as maneuverable as you suggest. But properly used, it is going to cover a lot of real estate with very little movement required. Don't cross it to your sword side... You will get shoved around and ganked in the back faster than you can react. Reposition your feet first. Giving the shield momentum will require as much energy to stop as to start.
I was just about to comment mentioning at certain time he could have used the shield and then you said it in the video.