Once I was at Eggsecutive VP and all of my teammates were all acting like they didn’t even do the tutorial. It even got ti the point where I ranked down to Profreshional +2. I got back up to Profreshional +3 and every time I got to Eggsecutive VP I got back down to Profreshional +3. I kept going up and down and up and down.
I learned to get to the last wave no matter what and to that if i focus on specific boss salmonids, the team doesnt struggle to survive. Got to a point where i could carry a team through a wave outside of night waves. Some weapon rotations are just bad though so even if i go down in job title, i know i could easily get it back from another weapon rotation
@@conan4real no? Its not really their fault that their team wasnt the best uou rank up pretty fast in salmon run you could be the best player but still be held back cause of your team
The issue with this system though is that the rewards themselves are basically not worth it despite them wanting to create incentive. They gotta change how scales function to make this mode more appealing to people.
Hard truth is Nintendo doesn't need you to be happy with the system, they just need you to keep playing... and even if I wish the stuff in the shop were cheaper, I've never missed getting the Bonuses/at least 1 King Salmonid in a Salmon Run shift since release😬
My whole thing is I don't care about rewards in salmon run, I play salmon run bc its fun and I like it. If the game makes me grind for an hour to get to a point where the game actually becomes fun, I'm not going to bother, no matter how good the game rewards are. I feel like this argument is ignored in this discussion/video. What if you play the game because it's fun? What if you bought the video game...... to have fun??? Trying to carry teammates who get 8+ deaths per game, or being that teammate that dies 8+ times, isn't fun to me. And isn't challenging in a way that's rewarding, especially when it's all reset in 3 days. In theory, grind will make you play more, or rewards might incentivize. Why isn't how much the players actually enjoy the game ever brought into the equation? The vast majority of splatoon players are content after they just get the hat and fight the big boss at some point. If they make having fun hard to do, I'm just not going to play. If the point of the system is to keep me playing, it's failing miserably. I've literally been avoiding it bc I don't want to carry + grind.
@@beebzah I have fun playing the mode too, but it's possible that a person might have fun playing the mode, but not so much fun that they're willing to keep playing it without added incentive. People can play games for fun, but not every person is intrinsically motivated to do something just because they enjoy doing it. Some people want to have fun and feel like they're building towards something at the same time and when the reward system reduces that kind of incentive, it can hurt the overall experience for those kinds of players. I personally don't cars about the rewards either, but if I did, I would also not want to play the mode. It just has a fair amount of fundamental problems and the rewards are part of it
I play Salmon Run because it can be fun. Mostly with friends. None of us like playing Turf or ranked. We just play Salmon Run. And even with that, we don't want to play more than we have to. Because it's just not worth it. Nothing sucks more than finally killing a King Salmon, and doing really well, and only getting 10 Bronze scales. This happens way too often and it's just not worth slogging through waves n waves just for 10 bronze scales. Salmon Run as a whole is supposed to be co-op. And it's the most competitive mode with it's events with rewards that aren't worth it. It definitely needs to be reworked.
Fair, but the scale rewards are still way too small, considering even high level evps still have extremely low shell counts, and while the current system does do the things you mentioned, it also means that you have to grind for literally 6 to 7 hours STRAIGHT if you want to want to hit the best rank, which is absurd. Anyone who cares enough about Salmon Run to try to get a decent rank is going to be playing more often regardless, so punishing them for being good at the game makes no sense.
They should guarantee scales per eggs. Like every 10 eggs in the round guarantees a bronze scale, 50 for silver, and 90 for gold in evp. Plus a bonus chance of getting extra scales on top of that.
Yeah. But they're counting on the dedicated players to weather the storm. That's what I was referring to when I said that some players carry the weight of the mode on their shoulders. But I agree.
@@splattuning That kinda puts me in a bind because I am one of those players who puts up the most of a fight in a team. each orange suit I see either knows what they are doing to make it a little easier on my attention to bosses and eggs or I have to keep an eye on them as I'm doing all the crazy stuff until I get the king to show up. Now knowing this information does help with my sanity. I do find that its scummy for the professional salmon runners to deal with this but at the same time I can't argue about that logic. It kind of works as they keep the updates going. Still hurts to shoulder all of that.
Salmon run is tricky even with a good team depending on how bosses spawn. I think the difficulty spikes a little too quickly. I ran through from go-getter back to EVP recently and noticed something. In pro +1, it's very possible to collect every egg that drops and get around 90. But the egg requirements don't go up much for the next few ranks. Then it jumps from about 19 to 23 going from pro + 3 to EVP. Not a huge difference in raw eggs, but considerable as a ratio. So I think the real problem is that the difficulty jumps too much from pro + 3 to EVP. But yet it's set up to let players into EVP without playing too much. It's definitely a curious situation.
@@splattuning I and other EVP players have lowered our rank to the lowest it can go to see if it is really hard to get to EVP or not for what I've seen and heard it is nothing compared to what it is in EVP.
I understand it, but the issue is when you have inflated prices for the clothing in the shop and the terrible drop rate of scales it kinda gets repetitive. I know they want people to grind more in salmon run, but when you add stuff like the golden map badge where you need EVP 999 I kinda wish we had checkpoints again
@@rubellite4480 badges come in at each map for 200, 400, 600, and 999. I can understand checkpoints at 200, 400, and 600, but only if you’ve reach those ranks in all maps, so that you can’t cheese a map. If a new map were to be added into the game, then once that map makes it into rotation, then you can try and unlock those checkpoints again
I wouldn't mind it if it weren't so easy to get into Eggsecutive. I've had teams that can't lure, ignore stingers + fly fish, and do not touch eggs. I can't imagine they're having much fun in a rank way too high for them, and I'm not having fun trying to carry my team At the same time, by starting at EVP 40 you only need 2 - 3 bad matches to rank down, and now you're in the rank that's full of people who really aren't good enough to be in EVP. So you either drag them up with you, or stay in profreshional until you get good match making. At this point, if I'm going to lose my rank I put the game down I wish they would spread the rewards out more, and add a single checkpoint at EVP 250. It's high enough that it's tougher to just get carried into, and spreading rewards out makes sense with egg toss. Would also make the EVP 999 grind a little easier
I think people keep getting carried to Eggsecutive VP by players that know how to lure n such. Such an annoying system dealing with these yahoos every rotation
> by starting at EVP 40 you only need 2 - 3 bad matches to rank down THIS! Salmon run is my favorite mode, but often enough I dont bother playing until after 10 pm when the kids in the server get off so that I don't have the risk of deranking. Especially when its a harder map or non-shooter weapons, it's pointless trying to rank up on a weekday 3pm-10pm. So I don't bother. If it's designed to make me keep playing, it's not working. I love how any person in any skill level can play this game, and that it's kid friendly, but idk why my own experience with the game has to be punished. It's ridiculous that I have to literally avoid certain times of the day to play. I consider myself "good" at salmon run, last big run I was only 7 eggs from getting top 5%, but I definitely dont have 7 hours to clock in two days to try to get to Max hazard level. I also don't want to grind for an hour just to get to a level where I feel like I'm Actually having fun now. Games are supposed to pass the time and Grizzco is a fake job in squid world, I'm tryna get OFF the grind in a videogame. I don't even care about rewards, I just want to play the game bc it's fun. That's the saddest part to me. They wanted to nerf my rewards rate, which I'm not even here for, so they do that by adding a fake layer of difficulty by giving me teammates that get 8+ deaths per game and dont know how to play glowflies. I can't imagine thats fun for them, either. So your rewards rate is "balanced" now, but its not fun for either party.
They tend to get carried during easier rotations, and they often stay in EVP because they will stop playing before they get demoted and wait for the next rotation for it to reset to 40.
Some have said a checkpoint per map to try to balance things. And resetting per season back to 40. I feel like that would be a nice compromise between what Nintendo must want and what players are looking for.
@@theone.whoasked I got Splatoon 3 in late February and finally got into Eggsecutive VP like two weeks ago. I now have only been in Eggsecutive VP or Profreshional 3 since then. It takes a while (and going through LOTS of absolutely TERRIBLE teammates), but you'll get there.
@@20000dinoive been trying since game release. whenever i get a difficulty þat is my level, my teammates butcher it up and i just get deranked :') i reset to lowest lvl just to have a few wins a lot
I usually don't stick with the same teammates until a king salmonid if I feel like I'm carrying every single wave, especially if we failed on a very do-able wave. Guess my expectations are set too high most of the time lol.
Yeah. I know what you mean. Sometimes you have to queue for a new team just for the sake of your own sanity. But I try to give my teammates the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes a person is doing horribly and then pulls a 180 the next round.
@@splattuning Sometimes said person is me. My performance can be close to perfect, or I can be at the shore for 30 seconds because a steel eel happens to block the way back. And sometimes I just... do a whoopsie?
If we assume losses are equally likely on any wave, players hit equilibrium at a Hazard Level they only have a 33% winrate on. I think that's rather harsh, the system is supposed to tune difficulty to your performance but it ends up pushing players into a level that's too much for them.
Ancedotetally that lines up with my experiences in the mode I eme up with a 33% win rate. Definitely an odd WR for coop compared to pretty much any other video game.
I'm perpetually stuck at EVP 40~100 and ocassionally get knocked down to Pro+3 It's SO incredibly common for me to get teamed with players who; - Don't paint surfaces other than the ground - Don't throw bombs long distances to revive teammates - Don't deal with Flyfish, Stingers, Fish sticks, or even Maw - Don't know how to squid roll - Don't toss eggs to teammates who are closer to the basket and not in danger - Don't back up from the shore even when multiple players are pressing "this way", especially during low tides - Don't know about explosher shots and Flyfish - Don't know that bombs explode on contact with parts of Steel Eels and Slamin Lids - Refuse to paint paths for teammates even as a backline support, even if it's just painting a line up the Fishstick, or seeing that lessers have blocked off the path someone needs to go through The sheer amount of players I've seen that do NONE of that is honestly so baffling compared to Splatoon 2 SR I'm tired of getting demoted because people don't know how to throw bombs :')
What you’re saying about Fish Sticks is so true. I wish more people can realize that they can go from mild inconvenience to game-ending threat, especially on high tide. I would even add to your list those who do nothing after getting splatted except spam help. Not realizing that down doesn’t mean out is such a representation of the “you do everything” mentality so prevalent. The only exception I’m willing to make for that is Marooner’s Bay normal tide. I’d also add not utilizing walls even after someone paints them, especially during Glowfly Wave and Grillers. I used to always die in those rounds until I learned this trick. It is such a lifesaver. One other thing I’d add is the grates. It may not seem much, but these are places you can take shelter from Flyfishes. All maps have them and are accessible except during high tide. Knowing this saved me so much. Also I didn’t know about bombs exploding with Steel Heads! Gonna try that in tutorial. Thanks for this advice!
@@briankim1098Thanks for pointing out that grates also protect from (Flyfish) missiles in Salmon Run! I knew that this is the case for Tenta missiles, but I somehow did not think of transferring that knowledge to Salmon Run 😅
That's a very good list! I knew and do all of that except for bombs exploding on contact with parts of Steel Eels and Slamin' Lid. What's the relevance of that and which parts exactly cause bombs to explode on contact? How do you use that knowledge? Knowing this could improve my shifts.
Oddly enough, Eggecutive VP in Splat3 makes me want to retreat to Splat2's Profreshional. Not because of the difficulty spike but because of the poor payouts of scales.
Every time I dropped to pro two from my evp 80 because I lost my perfect team to the mode rotation, I go back and wait the 18 minutes for 3 people to que up with me for a simpler time of inkable walls, waddling snatchers, and splashdown.
@@P.cookie This too. The new movement options are nice but they make you fall into bad habits too quickly and I found myself playing worse than without in some instances. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an uptick of people returning back to Splat2's Salmon Run. I do miss Splashdown and Bomb Barrage. Those specials are great in a pinch.
I feel like this is missing a huge point of Pro +1 is a fancy way of saying Pro 100, and EVP is a fancy way of saying Pro 400. The ranks stop in the same place as Splatoon 2, and this is even reflected in EVP players being able to play with pro players without preventing them earning points for a win. We are still being reset at the same point as before, but now there's an extra 400 points on the end of the scale, which aligns with the higher maximum hazard rank level.
That's not actually true, because when you rank up to Pro +1 you start at 40, not 0 making it significantly easier than 2 to keep ranking up. And because players tend to value this rank, if they get on a bad loss streak they can just wait for the next rotation to restart at 40 points. In 2, you can't gain points by waiting for a new rotation. Both of these things cause a big convergence towards EVP.
Early on, I fell for the 'stay in Profreshional rank for easier Cohozuna kills!'. But now I refuse to leave EVP, even if it means not playing until next rotation. I do wish there was checkpoints in EVP since I do wanna get some 400+ badges, but I simply don't have the time to grind for them.
That's when you learn to prioritize your life over teammates because you being alive is ultimately the most important thing for the team. Ignore the crying squids, you've got a basket to fill
I've had some matches where I get nearly 30 eggs without dying once And still lose. And when I look at the results, there's Two guys who somehow die 5 times and couldn't even manage to get even 10 eggs. I don't really like to blame my teammates for my losses, but there's only so much I can do with results like that. I can only carry so hard. I legitimately find the higher ranks of executive vp far more fun and less frustrating as in those ranks, everyone usually manages to pull their weight.
Yeah, I think more people need to examine the results screen. Without replays, it's the best(and only) way to determine what you could have done differently. In my experience, EVP players usually have more trouble with taking out enemies rather than collecting eggs, but I know what you mean about some players floundering.
The issue is they're oblivious to what they could be doing better. Salmon run needs a better way of telling players what went wrong after a match. On top of that, it's too easy or lucky to get into EVP.
Im a top 5% player and I can say that this video is just putting all of the worst problems currently in salmon run together and saying "well if you look at it this way now its actually good" which i hope i don't have to tell you why thats wrong. I exclusively play with other top 5% players that I know in vc because getting matched with bad players in the highest rank, is definitely NOT a good thing for anybody.
As I said, I don't agree with the reasoning, nor do I think it can't be improved. But I just wanted to make the video since it seemed like some people didn't realize there was some thought behind it, even if it is misguided. But thank you for the comment.
There’s still a huge difference between EVP players that just made it out of “profreshional hell” and EVP players that can handle the difficulty of the rank fairly well. And honestly the wildcard / golden wildcard events feel like they enhance the problem of weak players in EVP. Though I believe they are normally followed by more difficult comps. Perhaps difficult comps should be added more often into rotation to try and help filter out weaker players from stronger players
The thing is that something I noticed is that the moment I got above 300-500 in EVP during the recent random rotation (on the road to 999), suddenly basically every teammate that was hopeless is filtered out of matchmaking. There's a certain level of people getting stuck at low EVP, essentially a bell curve of people around that low level or just below. I think they may EVENTUALLY add the checkpoints, as those were a post launch thing in 2 and they might do it as a thing to keep high tier salmon run players engaged. Idk fully, maybe I'm wrong about that, probably am.
Honestly, there's lots of ways they could split the players into different matchmaking even without checkpoints. They do it in PVP modes. Win/loss ratio factors in for those modes as well as rank. They could do something similar, but it would basically make the bottom completely fall out of EVP if they did something like that. That isn't necessary a good thing though. There's probably not a perfect solution, unfortunately.
Generally it seems like a 30 quota on wave 3 is generally the limit for alot of lower EVP players. So once you get to around 200-300 EVP (depending on rotation difficulty) your only really left with competent players some can still carry you, but almost all are pretty solid. So alot of losses come down to either a tough night wave or getting slammed with a ton of problematic bosses.
@@jammyman7085 I think that's definitely a lot of the case. Even so I'd say on at least Gone Fission Hydroplant a lot of the tough night waves are decently manageable due to the layout (has arguably the best spot for glowflies in the game)
Even with the ranking system setup in such a way to be more "fair" and get players to keep playing . . . beyond getting the 1200 pts and rewards, there isn't much reasons for players to really stick it out with how horrible the drop rates are for scales (mainly gold and silver) for those prices in the shop. The few friends I got to get into playing Splatoon 3, and a few online that I know, all just don't bother playing Salmon Run after getting all the rewards, King salmon encounter or not. Theirs and my own major gripe, after getting the initial rewards, is the lack of gains from it compared to just playing Turf War and Anarchy. You don't gain account exp and catalog exp is gimped compared to even losing in Turf War or Anarchy. Sure you can keep getting the extended rewards for chucks, but the cost of adding abilities to gear drains that pool in an instant. And a personal one for me, that really isn't that significant, is that your ink usages doesn't count in Salmon Run doesn't contribute towards Wandercrust! I love playing Salmon Run, and it's great that Nintendo added Big Run and now Eggxtra Work...but the regular stuff just ain't enough. And those friends and online friends I metioned? Most of them aren't playing the game anymore after the first season because there isn't enough intensive in the game over all to keep them in it.
this is exactly the problem! i don't get why nintendo essentially punishes players for being more invested in salmon run. because you gain points faster the higher your rank, your reward for levelling up is... having to play salmon run LESS? the only real incentive for people in EVP to play SR for more than like a handful of wins is for the bragging rights of having a higher EVP level. this is how you foster an unhealthy mindset among your playerbase where rank becomes the only thing they care about. when you consider how much RNG factors into your success (boss spawns, tide level, weapon rotation, wave type, freelance teammates), and that losing two first waves at the start of a rotation will drop you back down to pro+3, of course players pushing for a higher rank are going to be angry as hell (either at the game or at their teammates). anarchy battles on the other hand still reward you with guaranteed catalog/weapon/clothing XP and $$$ so at least players get a consolation prize if they lose (and they also can't derank).
I have passion when it comes to SR as I got EVP 999 for the first time yesterday. Since you can't win them all and you have a limited time window, it took me well over 9 hours of gameplay to finally get it and with a little bit of luck. Usually I don't mind Freelance (I can manage HLM alone w/ randos in this mode) but there is a point where my hands can't play forever as even fatigue will kick in and make me worse. I managed to get a group to help me break this "curse" of mine but yes. Everything you said in this video hits the bullseyes.
The best Idea I have for Salmon run in general would be to let players when they in a rank like professional they could lock it into that rank so they can not go to a higher rank if they want like Professional +1 but they can still go down a grade by losing and the only reason why I like this idea is because it means players can play a difficult Salmon Run in there rank but they can get use to it and then when they're ready they could jump into getting to the next rank.
I don't want to play with scrubs that only play for the 1200 points, they aren't as invested in the mode and are honnestly a pain to play with because of that. EVP 40 is a nightmare, but once you go above 100 it's quite enjoyable. So the system kinda works, it separate diehards from scrubs, but depending on luck it can be quite a chore to escape from ~EVP40. I wish some kind of checkpoint existed so I wouldn't have to hard carry my first rounds of SR just to be able to have nice games afterwards. I want nice games now, having to grind an hour of SR to finally gain access to teammates of my level is ridiculous !
I'm a 'scrub' that only plays til 1200, but I'm actually very good at the mode and have a solid grasp and understanding of luring and boss salmonid prioritization, movement, team dynamics/flow, weapon roles, etc. I'm often the best player on my team until I reach 300 (which I don't go for often)
it sucks because with the reward cap ofc 'scrubs' who only play for the 1200 points aren't ever going to be motivated to actually get better at the mode. if nintendo spread out the rewards more or fixed the scale drop rates i bet the skill level of the average casual SR player would increase big time (bc they'd be actually motivated to learn how to play/play more)
I don't think he was actually saying every person who stops at 1200 is a scrub. I think it was more to the point that some people play specifically for that reason and aren't interested in getting better. A lot of people who stop at that point know what they're doing much like you.
My problem is that I don't really play enough in one shift to do a full rank up even if I play well, so if I get crappy teammates and lose on first wave twice in a row I'm just done with salmon run until the next shift.
@@splattuning For sure. I get better teammates in higher ranks, and I'm not bad at the game, I'm just not good enough to carry a team of 4 when there's a squidbagger and someone trying to use tapshots with the grizzco stringer (not to mention the number of people that will dive to the shore at the start of a round and then never leave it dragging all the bosses away from the basket). Another issue I have is that I'm probably never going to be able to experience hazard level max because I don't have the time to grind for that many points in an 18 hour period of time.
@@MudakTheMultiplier the grind for hazard level max during an average rotation is insane! your best bet for reaching HLM is during a golden weapon rotation or big run, with golden rotation being the easier route (i think) of course, the problem is waiting for either of those events to happen lol
I see what you mean about retaining your rank, but I'd advise that you don't worry about it so much. Obviously losing winnable matches isn't fun, but the practice is worth dropping rank imo.
@@splattuning the difference between playing 4 matches on a good shift and 2 matches on a bad shift is not that big for me. I just don't have the time to play more than that usually so if I derank I'm stuck with worse teammates for a couple weeks at least.
It may be working as designed…but it’s annoying. Too many players in freelance move up too easily and have no idea what they’re doing. Perhaps if you’re playing with friends and have a coordinated team it works well…but I’ve basically been demoting myself every time I reach EVP because there are too many players who have no clue how to kill some of the bosses or simply go rogue and don’t help the team effort. I find in the lower ranks I can control the outcome of the matches more where the higher ranks require a good team effort…which I rarely see. So although I enjoy Salmon Run, I’ll never earn any of the EVP badges because I can never get past EVP 200 when I do decide to hang around in EVP.
As someone who can’t play with a set team (friends) , I recommend joining pools specifically for salmon run, kind of like Hazmy’s Pool. Also make sure to join someone that has the same rank as you, I’ve lost with someone at Profreshional +3 and went from EVP 70 to EVP 40 :(
i miss the first month of the game when everyone at eggsecutive was CRACKED. it was so fun because despite the overwhelming amount of bosses, every match felt manageable because of the skill level
Hard disagree with this design philosophy. EVP needs checkpoints, PERIOD. From a design perspective, Salmon Run is a mode that is needlessly grindy compared to turf and anarchy and for no meaningful reason. We know the obvious complaint about scale scarcity and overpriced rewards, but let's ignore that for a second. You know what else sucks about the SR grind? After your superbonus you're only rewarded with duplicate gear converted into ability chunks, whereas in PVP modes you're rewarded with a continuous flow of cash, weapon mastery, leveling up gear, and so on. In Salmon Run, unlocking your catalog is SLOWER than in other modes. You know what would actually incentivize more players to play Salmon Run rotations for longer? Consistent rewards, no matter how many points you earn. As a returning Salmon Runner from Splatoon 2 I love this mode and mainly play it because I enjoy it, and don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic about all the fun cosmetics, QOL, events, and attention it's been getting from development this time around in Splatoon 3. But with how the rewards trail off the longer you play a rotation, it just feels like you're being... punished? For playing SR instead of PVP??? If anything, the superbonus cutoff and limited catalog exp is what actually causes most players to cut their SR playtime short and play other modes. In terms of my personal enjoyment of SR, I want to play the game at the hazard levels I find most challenging and fun, right from where I left off in a fairer EVP checkpoint. Even if I formed a group of higher-skilled players instead of diving into Freelance, I don't have as much time in my personal life to grind out the EVP badges for each map before the shifts rotate. These badges feel like less of sign of your skill and more of a "you were willing to play this mode for 7+ hours in less than 2 days to get to EVP 999 are you jobless?" grind token. I don't want to spend the start of each rotation dragging potentially inexperienced players out of their comfort zone into unmanageable difficulty levels. I am not worried about lower rank players being "left behind" in terms of SR pay; these players will improve with time and experience, and so will their rank, even without the hard carry of more seasoned players.
If nothing else, read the last paragraph of this response. A lot of good points made here. But I feel like I only half agree for one reason. Is playing the game the reason for playing or the rewards? This goes for all modes. Like in Splatoon 1, there was money, level, rank, and leveling gear. My memory is a little foggy so I might be wrong. Does it make the game better to have increased rewards across the board? Weapon badges for instance are also a sign of dedication much like the salmon run badges. Defeat 1000 steel heads. What does that mean? Someone played a lot. I don't think the badges were ever meant to be gamed. They were added to award dedication. So the grind for the max rank badges is a mark of dedication rather than achievement much like just about every other badge in the game. So here's the thing. I'm not saying you're wrong. I feel like it's a complicated situation. It all depends on what the rewards mean to someone and what they want out of the game. I do think rewards should be extended for the super bonuses but at a lower frequency for players. And it's potentially unfair to have such paltry catalog experience. But good or bad, they definitely want people to be playing pvp more than salmon run for whatever reason. But I sincerely thank you for such a thoughtful comment.
@@splattuning You're welcome, and thank you for making a video on this topic in particular! It's sparked a lot of interesting discussion. It's a complicated point so I will clarify, no I don't believe that the rewards should be the sole reason a game mode is played at all. It's kind of both. Rewards do incentivize many players to keep at it for longer. It's kind of how Big Run brings back a lot of players; part of it is to join in a limited time event for fun, but the rewards are certainly a big incentive too. I agree that rewards like weapon badges and boss salmonid badges aren't a grind but rather earned over time through dedication, that is a bit of oversight on my end. But my gripe is more with EVP resetting to 40 in terms of trying to hit Stage badges and to continue playing Salmon Run at the same intensity I left it last. I guess my example would be your rank resetting slightly in Anarchy when a season ends. Imagine if your Anarchy rank reset from S+ to A/A+ every 40 hours, instead of every season? That's kind of how it feels, like my sense of progression is stomped out when SR rotates over. I know it's not entirely fair to compare PvP to PvE when Salmon Run technically has an end difficulty point, max hazard. But that's part of where my frustration lies. I'm certainly not gonna stop playing SR if I ever hit EVP 999 or max hazard on all maps, but I'd love to actually get there without cramming 7+ hours in a 1 and 2/3 days period. With all the focus and QoL that has been put into Salmon Run, it baffles me that they've made these decisions to make people want to play PvP more and Salmon Run less? I sincerely wish it weren't the case. All the modes are fun and players learn a lot about the game through each of them.
I think it's more that salmon run is in universe work. So it's like you don't want to be working for too long? I don't know what the reasoning is. It's not even that they don't want people playing. It's that there seems to be an ideal amount of time to play. But then they added the badges just in case someone decided to play longer. It's strange.
Need more ranks or each map gets its own rank. The system needs an upgrade, not to punish lesser players but to help both high and low players have fun and a good challenge. I can't tell you the levels of frustration I've had to deal with each rotation dealing with random teammates who just don't get it. You can't be perfect every round or match and shit happens but when I am having to carry or save my team way too much it stops being fun. I luckily have found a few people to play with but I don't have any form of communication with them outside the game yet and may never will. When I do randomly get good teammates is when I can actually cut loose and snatch 50+ eggs sometimes. I guess I've learned the only way to truly win is be a show off hot dog in all modes in Splatoon.
Understandable but splat 2 salmon was better imo cuz checkpoints. You didn't have to get paired up with people who actually like they didn't play the tutorial every new rotation
I honestly leave more when my slamometer is high Doesn't matter if there's a king salmonoid, if we can't clear wave 3 And even if we do get a king, I'd much rather have the group that can pop horroboros with 42 seconds remaining than the group of idiots that can't even get it to half health
There's also the fact that your rank is reset to 40 every time which means you only need to win 3 times in a row to rank up. Really easy if it's a good rotation
Yep. It's like they don't want players to demote. Anyone who is that worried can just stop playing for the day if they get to 0. Then they get saved by the bell. And the cycle continues.
I've heard somewhere else that king salmonids spawn based on the amount of full meters. 1 full meter makes it have a chance to spawn while all 4 guarantees it. Great reasoning on the rest of the video though. But I still want salmon run to give more catalogue xp as it is by far the worst of the 3 ways to get it
Yeah, I think it is a chance, but that's sort of the point. The king salmonids make it so all players are playing for about the same amount of time. But you're right, it's only a sure fire spawn if everyone has a full meter.
I was usually like evp 400 where people know what theyre doing but ever since i got lazy and ranked down to evp 40 everyone dies when theres like 10 bosses on stage lol and i have to save all of them all the time
Had to freelance for roughly 16 hours to get to 999 on the random rotation. It's so absurd to have to grind so hard in a single sitting to get a golden badge because of the rank reset between rotations. It's like they forgot people have jobs.
Yes. That's true. But on the other hand, it's good that they have a goal for the most dedicated players unlike in Splatoon 2. It's a double edged sword though given that it puts more pressure on players to unlock these badges.
It's funny how this system is supposed to encourage playing Salmon Run more when, for me, it fails that job horribly and I treat it as if it's Splatoon 2's Salmon Run. I just want the bonuses. My meter is full and i just need one win to fight coho? Not worth my time with the scale drops like they are now. The rates go up the higher my rank? Well not that much of a higher rate plus I lose all my hard earned exp and drop back to EVP 40 at the end of the rotation. Imagine playing PVP and reaching level 100 or 999 only for the next day to come and you're dropped back to level 30. It's not incentivizing, it's defeating. Add the fact that you get punished hard for failing a shift and you have a bad system. How about raising the scale drop rates slightly higher for everyone and give ACTUAL rewards in the shop that can add natural replayability to Salmon Run instead of this artificial system. Let me pay for a grizzco weapon for a shift or three or allow me to buy some ink resistance up to make myself a little bit harder to kill. Yeah, it'll make the gamemode easier but the point is to have fun and replay the game. Apologies for the rant.
Nintendo needs to make getting to EVP harder cause when the ranks reset it just means that I have to play extra hard to make up for teammates who dont kill bosses fast enough or die too much. I personally dont mind the reset to 40, it makes getting 999 a more impressive achievement, but they should definitely make it harder for profresh+3 players to get EVP.
One checkpoint at 100 or 200 would almost certainly separate the player base to a significant degree without diminishing the achievement much. But yeah. It can be an uphill battle at 40. Given the fact that it hasn't changed since the game launched though, I feel like salmon run is working as intended. The real issue is the lack of training that players get on the way to EVP. We want more players in EVP, but the game needs to educate players better about their mistakes. It's far too easy for a player to think "we got unlucky" or "it was their fault".
@@splattuning this tho. i'm still in the low Profreshional zone and i'm genuinely unsure how much i'm messing up or if it's genuinely the fault of the team (tho oftentimes i'd expect it's all of us)
@@CaptainBedtime Without knowing any other information, the best advice I can give is don't go down no matter what. Because you're out for around 10 seconds if you get splatted. Beyond that, attack anything in range, even if you can't defeat it before you have to move. Any damage is helpful. That's including lesser salmonids (and maybe especially lessers). The egg requirements aren't super high, so as long as your teammates can move, they'll hopefully turn the eggs in. Best of luck though.
I kinda stopped bothering with Salmon Run as much as I used to. Cause the Scale Drops for King Salmons are absolute trash. I'm not that good at Salmon Run admittedly, Overachiever Rank, but I just cannot deal with getting like 5 Copper and maybe 1 Silver every King Salmonid Boss. It gets frustrating trying to grind that low drop rate
It’s just so punishing for such a team based game, and they don’t teach you tatics you will need to constantly win, like luring. And the reward are absolutely garbage and I the only thing that makes it playable is the money and chunks, and the grind is just unfun, you will have to stop as its so demoralising to grind and lose a rank, or to get bronze scales
While this is how the game is intentionally designed. I personally massively disagree with their design decisions. The obcene amount of grind required to get the rewards in the first place are gonna make them more inaccessible than the ranking system and strong players stopping salmon run for the day. The best solution isn't to hamper the experience of other players to make the grind barrier easier to overcome you lower the grind barrier to where you don't have to put in hundreds of hours to get what you want. If you're gonna put hundreds of hours into something it should never be because it's a prerequisite to really have fun with the game it should be because the game itself is that fun. And in order to do a lot of things such as experimenting with gear builds or just unlocking rewards at grizzco that will take hundreds of hours of grind and I get having stuff which take that long to get be for the people who are die hard fans but they take it to the absolute extreme when literally everything actually worth something to the player will require hundreds of hours of grind. I hate that they have all of this artificial grind attached to the game and it is really hurting it in the long run.
Strictly speaking from hazard level scaling alone, the Splat 2 Profreshional checkpoints are still in 3, they're just separated into Profreshional +X and the base EVP checkpoint, and then they added another 400 points of rank to climb through
Yeah, I think the optics just look bad with no checkpoints across 999 points. But it's likely very similar to the old system. The pay rate did have to be lowered though given the higher egg counts. Obviously I'm talking from Nintendo's perspective to keep the number of matches required for the super bonuses to stay the same or increase. And realistically, the short term "one more match" is less of what they intended compared to incentive of collecting scales over long periods of time to keep players returning to the mode and game as a whole.
The thing is, artificial roadblocks like you are describing to "keep players engaged" are the number one thing that drives me away. EVP freelance is hell in this game. I'm good enough that I'm the player that the game is trying to make carry, but not good enough that I can actually pull it off reliably enough to get into the higher levels of EVP. Having to constantly carry bad players who wouldn't be anywhere near this rank just isn't fun and kill enjoyment. The rewards from the scales are far too grindy and far to insubstantial to even make then a reason to play to begin with, let alone a reason to keep playing after the fun dies.
Well it's more about the imaginary rewards that keep people playing. But I feel like us as the players might be more of the problem. The game exists as it is and it's our opinions and mindset that allow us to enjoy it or not. I'm still formulating some ideas for the next video which will cover what I'm hinting at, but I hope you aren't too discouraged from playing the mode or game in general.
@@splattuning No you're not the problem. A lot of games have shown otherwise and games are forgoing a lot of simple but effective methods for the season pass style methods. Systems which are so time consuming they stop you from playing other games. It is basically trying to eat people's time and attention so they can't have their time and attention stolen by another system doing the same. It stops being about fun but player retention. By resetting frequently and having systems forced to keep retention you create an illusion of infinite progression. It eventually leads to burnout and distaste for the system even opting out of games which use it completely.
But they only added rewards for players to get IF they want them. The mode isn't mandatory nor are the rewards. So the only way it feels like a grind is by focusing on the cosmetics too much. As it stands, half an hour or so of salmon run gets both super bonuses. So playing to that point and stopping isn't much of a grind. I'd argue players care too much about holding onto their rank. Anyone who feels like it's too difficult can opt to demote with very few penalties. So it's not really the game that burns people out. It's their desire for getting long term rewards quickly. The scales are only meant to keep players in the game slightly longer. But it's more of a reward for playing the game over long periods of time.
It's hyperbole. I just meant that many people are in EVP. Regardless of anything I might have said in the video, salmon run takes a lot of time to gain the experience needed to know what to do in most situations. Just keep at it.
The idea that people who are getting carried are actually learning something from the people carrying them is a heavy dose of copium, but yeah this does make me realize this system is working as intended and therefore won't be fixed. Ouch.
Not necessarily. It could still be revised. I think there's room for actual training for players to get better somehow. I just haven't figured out how to crack the code. I'm working on some potential solutions. I don't think anything they did was by chance, but I also don't think it's final. They're under time constraints so I think it could be the best idea for now, but hopefully not forever. It just depends on the intent they have for salmon run.
Idk if that's an unpopular opinion. However, I think it would have a negative impact overall. Part of the challenge is using weapons that you're unfamiliar with in every situation. Or that it's not a well rounded weapon. And someone would get stuck with one they don't like anyway. If you mean pick any weapon, I think the mode would get boring to play with the same weapon all the time. And the player could use different weapons if they get bored I suppose. But it would probably make it too easy. There are definitely some lower tier weapons that would never get used. Overall, random weapons are probably the best choice for the mode I think. But who knows really. It would make my life easier for capturing footage though...
My problem is that i never win the 3rd wave but i make it to the 2nd so i dont get ranked down. Always losing and not earning shells sucks so i almost never play salmon run 💀
There's no shame in demoting. Honestly, the practice would help. And if you're having trouble by the third wave, you'll get grizzco points much faster in spite of the lower pay grade if you can complete the round at a lower rank. I feel like that wasn't very clear. Completing a round with a lower pay grade earns more points than a higher pay grade match where you lose. You automatically get 50 points multiplied by your pay grade just for winning a match.
I get the idea but i actually dont care about the xtra waves. I do get my rewards before xtra somehow, and even if i see it full after the superbonuses i still don't feel like i wanna do one more
Right. I don't think everyone falls into that trap, but it just seems like that's the intent. Personally, I usually try to fight a king per rotation, but not always. Anyway, thanks for the comment.
Oh my UA-cam recommended this video a year later, ha ha. I personally heavily dislike salmon run, however due to Splatoon three and the rewards "Big Run / Extra Work" it made the mode more interesting to me as there are many awful players complaining on media applications on why they can not obtain 130+ eggs for Gold. I am acceptable at the mode since The Sequel and I decided to learn the mode and go into servers of over fishers to help learn the spawns and manipulate the Ai of the salmonids. Then I formed a small over fishing team that we play together for every big run / extra work event and we obtain gold in the first five minutes of the event and just stop playing the even all together as there is no incentive to continue, especially now that we already know what the minimum threshold is. As back then it was up in the air as the top five percent could be 170+ golden eggs which made us continue to play in hopes of obtaining that golden trophy which we did still in the first hour or so of the event, ha ha.
As someone who played Salmon Run into Splat2, seeing my teammates make the stupidest decisions Like not popping Special when like 3 of our teammates are downed resulting in the match loosing, not properly luring, not trying to deal with the Flyfish and Stingray Salmonids, it’s so annoying. Also, my Teammates not knowing how to effectively fight King Salmonids is so annoying. Like utilizing Joe to kill the Boss Salmonids to get easy Golden eggs to attack his weak points
i feel like an evp 400 checkpoint would work in separating the huge amount of evp players and let the less experienced play with similar skilled players rather than with players that are trying for 9’s and being brought down. it’s high enough where it’s difficult to get to and still makes the grind to 9’s difficult but it eases the stress of not only the time to grind but bad teammates because you can pretty safely assume someone who hit evp400 is competent at the game. it’s also so demotivating to get to high evp levels like 800-900 then be brought all the way down to 40 because it took you so long to get out of evp 40-400
I don't know the answer to this, but do you think it would make the max rank badges too easy to get? I feel like a lot of people already got them, and I think it's important to not take that accomplishment away from them.
I think 9’s would still be very difficult to get as you’d still be playing at an insanely high hazard level it just helps reduce the time spent in the lower hazards which don’t take as much effort to get through if you have teammates similar in skill to yourself
But do they actually want players to grind to 999? That's the question I've been mulling. Obviously they made it possible to do. But it's almost like they designed it purely for bragging rights. They almost need to make an x rank of sorts for salmon run once players hit 999. And they could get 2 more super bonuses or something. But then it adds the issue of people feeling even more like they NEED to get to 999 because they're missing out. But too many super bonuses would kind of break the game. It's already potentially much faster to earn cash in Salmon run, although it's definitely a gamble compared to the other modes. Salmon run is currently second class for some reason.
@@splattuning well, they made the salmon run stage badges for EVP999 and there’s plenty of people in the community that want to collect everything. Myself included! I just don’t like the argument/defense for the horrible matchmaking for salmon run/turf war/anarchy that if you’re good enough you should be able to carry your team. What?? This is a 4 player co-op game. Each teammate should hold their own weight and contribute “evenly” (I put that in quotes because every weapon has its own duty to fulfill and sometimes that’s splatting and sometimes it’s inking).
I totally agree. But I also think that there's a complex balance they're trying to keep. I think the main problem with salmon run is actually that one player can push others up in rank. Then since the egg requirements go up each wave, it's most likely that people will fail in the third wave, resulting in no rank loss. So there isn't a clear indication that they should maybe demote to get more practice, but they're unlikely to actually rank down because they do just good enough.
I think part of the issue I see is that people *don't want* to rank down, even if it'd give them a better time. I know people who got carried to Pro+2/+3/EVP who *really* weren't ready for it, but now refuse to play with people who can't carry them because they're terrified of ranking down, even though the difficulty they're at is too stressful for them.
Yep. People obsess over the wrong things. Practicing at a lower rank would actually help to get better rather than basically hitting a brick wall and barely being able to contribute due to not having the experience.
Do you think checkpoints would somewhat diminish the dedication it takes? If I were developing the game, I'd be worried about making it easier and therefore invalidating the sense of accomplishment that those players feel.
@@splattuning As someone who got stuck after evp 600, no The sheer skill to reach 9s is already quite high And I find it increadibly discouraging knowing that even if I get good enough, I can never get 9s. I have a job, and can't dedicate half my time to salmon run
@@PlasmaCore I don't have the time either, so I can relate. I understand where you're coming from, but just try not to worry about it. And don't feel discouraged about it. If you don't have the time, you don't have the time. It's just a badge. Focusing on trinkets like that will only take away from the fun of actually playing. Personally, I doubt I'll ever do it. And I'm ok with that. I just don't think it's fair to remove an obstacle that other people have overcome to get those badges. Sorry you're feeling discouraged about it though. And doubly sorry if it sounded like I was being elitist. Again, I don't have the badges.
Scale payouts are bad and only two Kings right now, one of them is very uninteresting. I think they need a better system in general. You need more cool bosses and variety and better payouts if you want people to care about the Salmon meter. You don't even get paid for climbing, every SR player has 100s of chunks and they're poor if they buy from shops daily. A simple "we'll pay you a little less cash than Turf Wars for playing SR based on how many waves you clear" would be nice. I'm just fortunate enough that EVP 0-200 is easy enough for me to carry most teams and I can get to the King no problem, but its kinda discouraging when I get three players dying like 5-6 times and I'm just team reviving since I'm not dying.
Yeah, I really don't get why they changed SR gear from 3 slot, random filled to random slot, always filled; swapping for cash was always the best option (if the gear had filled slots that was the pity reward!)
I got to eggsecutive vp,when I was unprepared. My hazard levels went from 120% to 170%. I ended up demoting myself all the way just to enjoy salmon run again.
I just want more difficulty. I don't care about rewards. Even with checkpoints (which you get by grinding for many hours for every single map) the difficulty you get reset to every rotation is way too low. I just want HLM every time for half a dozen matches every couple days because I know I can handle it, I don't want to grind for hours.
Just keep practicing and learn as much as you can from all the available resources. And read the results screen carefully. If you had a crew wipe, more salmonids needed defeated. Bosses and lessers. If there weren't enough eggs collected, it's usually a combination of things. Probably there were too many salmonids around in tandem with the bosses being defeated too far away from the egg basket. And be careful about throwing eggs. You can put yourself in a really disadvantageous situation if you throw an egg with too many enemies around.
@@splattuning Ah, thank you! I really appreciate this! I’ll keep this in mind next time. I think I tend to get tunnel vision, and don’t think about my teammates enough, I’ll try to work on that too!
EVP 400 and lower is a joke it's full of profresh +3 players, in my opinion players shouldn't be able to carried from profresh to EVP since it fills the whole EVP rank with bad players. Trying to get to 999 can be a pain with the boring low hazard level and the profreash Evp players in freelance. Checkpoints should come back so we only play with good players instead of playing with a mix of bad players, the only way to improve is to change/experiment how you play see what works and what doesn't you could also record your self and see what you could of done differently.
I think this whole design of resetting specifically at EVP 40 is causing more problems than solutions. It's very easy to get carried up to EVP, and within that range where it resets to 40 it is possible to get queued up with people who are stuck in "profreshional hell"; Which spells doom for some matches since it's at around the top of profreshional +3 and bottom of EVP where the salmonids can start to get overwhelming without proper tactics. So it results in a whole cluster of people having to go and beat their head against a brick wall playing with what is essentially RNG matchmaking of whether you'll get good teammates or not in an effort to grind the Grizzco reward capsules and shop system. Overall it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth because of how frustratingly inconsistent it can be, and that's before taking into account things like weapon and map rotations. I'm not trying to sound elitist or anything, but the good players should be able to be checkpointed in the higher end of EVP if they want to so they can play with other good players and grind for scales if they like Salmon Run that much, especially since the shop prices are rigged and scale drops are mediocre at best. I feel like that it would hardly divide the playerbase since most people only really play for the 2 super rewards and maybe up until a king salmonid for that specific rotation.
when i was in eggsecutive for the first time i kept the rank for like one hour and then ranked down so much that i ended up in overachiever... i think it was the rotation and/or teammates and/or me
I hope that didn't discourage you. A lot of people in EVP have hundreds of hours of salmon run under their belt between this game and splatoon 2. Don't worry about rank. It's just a label.
Man this really puts in perspective just how much Splatoon has edged towards energy systems and skinner traps in its design. I mean they were always there but each game has ramped them up significantly. And 3 has also had less new content added.
I just find it annoying cuz it makes the badges a stupid grind, skip to play countless matches with players of varying skill sets to get the higher-level badges and it gets tiring after like the 10th match not to mention how often you can lose
Oh and dont forget the fact that lsosing round one bumps you down 20 notches and more when you derank keeping you playing longer simply so you fan get bafk to whwre you were
What's funny about this is that it has the adverse effect to me. It doesn't make me wanna keep grinding, it makes me wanna quit. I don't feel I'm being rewarded for my time, since the bonuses run out, you don't get any extra catalog points for the higher time investment, you barely make any money for buying clothing or the gacha, and the scales are so sporadic in what you get that it feels LOSING to the King Salmon nets you more than winning against it sometimes. Not to even mention the crazy amount of hours it takes to reach 999 each rotation, its so much frustration for so little payoff
I have the opposite experience. I actually get more cash from Salmon run for the first half an hour compared to spending that time in ranked. Plus the food tickets and ability chunks. So I think they really just want people to play until 1200 or a king salmonid.
@@splattuning I really only exclusively play Salmon Run as its my favorite mode, and occasionally turf war, so the diminishing rewards over time is more noticeable to me. Makes it hard to afford stuff later on
I feel your pain. I do get what you're saying, but I think they tried to design the modes to be symbiotic. I don't think they intend for people to only play salmon run, but I know there are people like you who much prefer it. So I know it's not my fault, but I'm sorry if you feel like your favorite mode gets a second class treatment.
i think they should have checkpoints every 200 points and make it so your checkpoint is different per map, so like i could have evp 100 on hydroplant and evp 40 on sockeye
Completely agree. I think that would go a long way in terms of fairly balancing the ranks. They changed it in this game for the ranked modes(probably due to ranks resetting each season), but it used to be ranks per mode. X rank is still per mode, but why should salmon run just be one rank?
I used to be EVP around 3 times iirc, and I even reached EVP just yesterday, but in the most part rn, I demoted myself frequently all the way down to go-getter when I reach Profreshional simply to help newer players and play more in general. It was hard to let go of the rank, but I feel that it’s better for me mentally and reaching EVP again gave me a peace of mind that EVP is never too far away if I wanted to go back up there. I don’t personally believe I deserve the rank anyway because I frequently do worse in the egg collecting and do more on the surviving, reviving, passing eggs, and trying to clear the space from bosses and lessers. I might help Regular Profreshionals in the future.
This. Sometimes I have some bad teammates or I do some very stupid actions, but most of the time we lose, it's the weapon loadout. Like have a charger, blaster, brush and roller. It's just not a good combo
I hate that they reset the Salmometer when the rotation changes. It's probably for that extra incentive to play, but it creates moments where I really want to play Anarchy but I am about to lose a full meter so I keep fishing even if I'm no longer having fun.
Yeah. I wish it carried over too. It still gives incentive to come back next time. Now that there are two bosses, I could see if they kept a value per boss. Even if it didn't reset, it still won't make the boss spawn right away without. So is would still keep people playing together longer anyway. And I think the meter could be better as just an extra incentive for salmon run rather than incentive to play longer for the current rotation.
My main issue is that I'll either go 2-3 shifts of wins and then the game will give me a communication error, sending me to a new group of randos who i'll tend to just hover on getting wiped wave 2 or 3, and now I've had a full salmonometer since 900 points, I'm at 1500 and i'll quit out anyway since nobody can get their act together to push that last little bit. Or I'll get a bad team first game of the rotation, wipe wave 1, requeue and get another bad team, wipe wave 1 AGAIN and now I don't even want to play since I'm back in profreshionhell +3.
That definitely is unfortunate, but my advice is to stop worrying about rank in Salmon run. The money and ability chunks are nice, but it's not worth it if it's stressful. Just play to have fun and expect to lose often. Sorry there isn't a perfect solution.
Now i love salmon run and it may just be me, but I feel like this mode is still "mini game-ified" rather than a stand alone mode. Like compared with anarchy, it just feels.. plain. No replays, the end screen doesn't tell you anything really about ur performance aside from who got the most eggs in, and scales feel almost Too random so the incentive is just kind of Blah. Maybe they just need more bragging-rights non-shop items or smth, idk. the suits are cool but imagine stunting on squids by earning cosmetics with ur personal performance (kind of like the map/grizzco stickers on ur banner)
So rather then making it fun they made it so you are punished for taking a break? Rather then fix things by making them approachable for casuals they made them so players have to carry lesser skilled players so those lesser skilled players could get the rewards rather then actually help those players in some way? That is how you make a game very toxic. As people learn of this hate should slowly become more common. This is what happened in most other shooters. CSGO, CoD, Halo, TF2.
Well, to be fair, EVP still takes a fair bit of skill to get into. It's just a little bit of hyperbole. It's basically like if A+, S, and S+ got grouped together every 40 hours. But unlike the PVP modes, it's cooperative. They aren't being nefarious. Just a little sneaky.
The issue I see is that the difficulty spike in Profresh to EVP isn't balanced enough to make it where newer, inexperienced players cannot find and learn things enough to get better at the runs. If it was made to be able to be streamlined it would make the experience smoother imo. I've had times where I was usually EVP and I get knocked down to Profresh +1 just because of Freelance.
What do you think would help to train players to have the knowledge to do better? Because I definitely think you're right that it's an experience problem rather than a skill problem.
This doesn't explain why the game sets the bar for EVP so low and doesn't send people back down the ranks enough. Wave 3 losses should still lose some rank in EVP instead of retaining.
Sorry if it wasn't clear. The bar is low to give players an inflated sense of accomplishment/a rank that is achievable for any player nearly. Then with all the players compressed into one rank, it slows the best players down by having to play with the typical player. It's not all evil though and I regret painting it I'm that light. It also helps players learn from the best without having to seek outside resources.
I feel like the more I learn about how Salmon run works in Splatoon three the less inspired I am to keep playing. To me it just feels very anti-player.
It's not all bad. I regret painting it in such a negative light. My recommendation is play it for half an hour every rotation or until you aren't having fun, whether it be sooner or later. That's enough time for 4 matches. The king salmonids are tempting, but you need to be careful not to fall into the psychological trap of "but my salmometer is full". I don't want to discourage anyone from playing the game or the mode. It's meant to be played in short bursts every day for the most bang for your buck.
Well, it's not quite so simple. There are better rates for scales the higher your rank is. I'd have to do the calculus on win ratios and the probabilities, but depending on the player's skill level, there would be a rank where they are getting the most fish scales. But it all depends on the player and how often and how quickly they can defeat a boss salmonid. Edit: So the system is likely already set up to account for player skill. And there is rank threshold for getting scales. Below a certain rank, it's impossible to get golden scales. I don't remember what rank off of the top of my head though.
Thanks for explaining why the rules are like this. I personally find it very frustrating because I'm the kind of player that will grind to get the best possible rewards. But when I did the math and found that in order to get the 999 silver scale banner , I would need to play Salmon Run EVERY DAY FOR OVER A YEAR it's incredibly discouraging. I'm really hoping Nintendo offers some other way for farming scales faster, even if that means jumping directly into hazard level max with 4 snipewriters. I will happily take more difficulty for more scales.
My takeaway from _all_ of this is that I should be joining a salmon run discord server and playing with people on voice chat since they will be better at the game than the average joe.
Depends on what your goals are. And voice chat is probably necessary for breaking records, but given the pace of a match, if everyone isn't always doing something useful, it's already too late for a call-out to be effective. But I could be wrong. I basically exclusively play in freelance so I don't know how much better it could get.
@@splattuning in my experience of going from casual ranked to on-a-team competitive splatoon rather recently, I think that having voice chat is invaluable, even if the players aren't playing the best. Being able to say "They're behind!" or "I'm popping [special]" is so useful since the people you're playing with are more aware of the match. In salmon being able to say "Can someone kill the stinger" when you're on eliter is equally as useful.
I don't stick with teammates if we lose a wave knowing they won't make it to a boss salmonid level. I will only stick around if I think i think it was bad boss rng or an unlucky loss
Meanwhile I just keep demoting myself cuz I'm not into the harder difficulty and the scales suck too much to farm for, so I just pretend the rewards in that shop don't exist and hope they don't add anything I may want in the future.
Once I was at Eggsecutive VP and all of my teammates were all acting like they didn’t even do the tutorial. It even got ti the point where I ranked down to Profreshional +2. I got back up to Profreshional +3 and every time I got to Eggsecutive VP I got back down to Profreshional +3. I kept going up and down and up and down.
I learned to get to the last wave no matter what and to that if i focus on specific boss salmonids, the team doesnt struggle to survive.
Got to a point where i could carry a team through a wave outside of night waves.
Some weapon rotations are just bad though so even if i go down in job title, i know i could easily get it back from another weapon rotation
it sounds like you just aren't meant for EVP honestly
@@conan4real To me it looks more like they need to find a set group instead of freelancing
@@conan4real no? Its not really their fault that their team wasnt the best uou rank up pretty fast in salmon run you could be the best player but still be held back cause of your team
I've been on teams where they die to chum and small fry constantly. I'm just like...why god
The issue with this system though is that the rewards themselves are basically not worth it despite them wanting to create incentive. They gotta change how scales function to make this mode more appealing to people.
Hard truth is Nintendo doesn't need you to be happy with the system, they just need you to keep playing... and even if I wish the stuff in the shop were cheaper, I've never missed getting the Bonuses/at least 1 King Salmonid in a Salmon Run shift since release😬
My whole thing is I don't care about rewards in salmon run, I play salmon run bc its fun and I like it. If the game makes me grind for an hour to get to a point where the game actually becomes fun, I'm not going to bother, no matter how good the game rewards are.
I feel like this argument is ignored in this discussion/video. What if you play the game because it's fun? What if you bought the video game...... to have fun??? Trying to carry teammates who get 8+ deaths per game, or being that teammate that dies 8+ times, isn't fun to me. And isn't challenging in a way that's rewarding, especially when it's all reset in 3 days.
In theory, grind will make you play more, or rewards might incentivize. Why isn't how much the players actually enjoy the game ever brought into the equation? The vast majority of splatoon players are content after they just get the hat and fight the big boss at some point. If they make having fun hard to do, I'm just not going to play. If the point of the system is to keep me playing, it's failing miserably. I've literally been avoiding it bc I don't want to carry + grind.
@@beebzah I have fun playing the mode too, but it's possible that a person might have fun playing the mode, but not so much fun that they're willing to keep playing it without added incentive. People can play games for fun, but not every person is intrinsically motivated to do something just because they enjoy doing it.
Some people want to have fun and feel like they're building towards something at the same time and when the reward system reduces that kind of incentive, it can hurt the overall experience for those kinds of players. I personally don't cars about the rewards either, but if I did, I would also not want to play the mode. It just has a fair amount of fundamental problems and the rewards are part of it
I play Salmon Run because it can be fun. Mostly with friends. None of us like playing Turf or ranked. We just play Salmon Run.
And even with that, we don't want to play more than we have to. Because it's just not worth it. Nothing sucks more than finally killing a King Salmon, and doing really well, and only getting 10 Bronze scales.
This happens way too often and it's just not worth slogging through waves n waves just for 10 bronze scales.
Salmon Run as a whole is supposed to be co-op. And it's the most competitive mode with it's events with rewards that aren't worth it.
It definitely needs to be reworked.
Fair, but the scale rewards are still way too small, considering even high level evps still have extremely low shell counts, and while the current system does do the things you mentioned, it also means that you have to grind for literally 6 to 7 hours STRAIGHT if you want to want to hit the best rank, which is absurd. Anyone who cares enough about Salmon Run to try to get a decent rank is going to be playing more often regardless, so punishing them for being good at the game makes no sense.
They should guarantee scales per eggs. Like every 10 eggs in the round guarantees a bronze scale, 50 for silver, and 90 for gold in evp. Plus a bonus chance of getting extra scales on top of that.
Yeah. But they're counting on the dedicated players to weather the storm. That's what I was referring to when I said that some players carry the weight of the mode on their shoulders. But I agree.
@@splattuning That kinda puts me in a bind because I am one of those players who puts up the most of a fight in a team. each orange suit I see either knows what they are doing to make it a little easier on my attention to bosses and eggs or I have to keep an eye on them as I'm doing all the crazy stuff until I get the king to show up. Now knowing this information does help with my sanity. I do find that its scummy for the professional salmon runners to deal with this but at the same time I can't argue about that logic. It kind of works as they keep the updates going. Still hurts to shoulder all of that.
Salmon run is tricky even with a good team depending on how bosses spawn. I think the difficulty spikes a little too quickly. I ran through from go-getter back to EVP recently and noticed something.
In pro +1, it's very possible to collect every egg that drops and get around 90. But the egg requirements don't go up much for the next few ranks. Then it jumps from about 19 to 23 going from pro + 3 to EVP. Not a huge difference in raw eggs, but considerable as a ratio.
So I think the real problem is that the difficulty jumps too much from pro + 3 to EVP. But yet it's set up to let players into EVP without playing too much. It's definitely a curious situation.
@@splattuning I and other EVP players have lowered our rank to the lowest it can go to see if it is really hard to get to EVP or not for what I've seen and heard it is nothing compared to what it is in EVP.
I understand it, but the issue is when you have inflated prices for the clothing in the shop and the terrible drop rate of scales it kinda gets repetitive. I know they want people to grind more in salmon run, but when you add stuff like the golden map badge where you need EVP 999 I kinda wish we had checkpoints again
maybe they can set it at every 200 points since it does take a while
fr!! I just grinded to evp 590 and i couldnt get to 600 and now i dont have the silver badge :((
@@rubellite4480 badges come in at each map for 200, 400, 600, and 999. I can understand checkpoints at 200, 400, and 600, but only if you’ve reach those ranks in all maps, so that you can’t cheese a map. If a new map were to be added into the game, then once that map makes it into rotation, then you can try and unlock those checkpoints again
@@penguinflames707 that would be very interesting, seems pretty reasonable too
@@rubellite4480 very reasonable but I don't think they'll add such thing ever in the game. I hope they prove me wrong tho.
I wouldn't mind it if it weren't so easy to get into Eggsecutive. I've had teams that can't lure, ignore stingers + fly fish, and do not touch eggs. I can't imagine they're having much fun in a rank way too high for them, and I'm not having fun trying to carry my team
At the same time, by starting at EVP 40 you only need 2 - 3 bad matches to rank down, and now you're in the rank that's full of people who really aren't good enough to be in EVP. So you either drag them up with you, or stay in profreshional until you get good match making. At this point, if I'm going to lose my rank I put the game down
I wish they would spread the rewards out more, and add a single checkpoint at EVP 250. It's high enough that it's tougher to just get carried into, and spreading rewards out makes sense with egg toss. Would also make the EVP 999 grind a little easier
I think people keep getting carried to Eggsecutive VP by players that know how to lure n such. Such an annoying system dealing with these yahoos every rotation
> by starting at EVP 40 you only need 2 - 3 bad matches to rank down
THIS! Salmon run is my favorite mode, but often enough I dont bother playing until after 10 pm when the kids in the server get off so that I don't have the risk of deranking. Especially when its a harder map or non-shooter weapons, it's pointless trying to rank up on a weekday 3pm-10pm. So I don't bother. If it's designed to make me keep playing, it's not working. I love how any person in any skill level can play this game, and that it's kid friendly, but idk why my own experience with the game has to be punished. It's ridiculous that I have to literally avoid certain times of the day to play.
I consider myself "good" at salmon run, last big run I was only 7 eggs from getting top 5%, but I definitely dont have 7 hours to clock in two days to try to get to Max hazard level. I also don't want to grind for an hour just to get to a level where I feel like I'm Actually having fun now. Games are supposed to pass the time and Grizzco is a fake job in squid world, I'm tryna get OFF the grind in a videogame.
I don't even care about rewards, I just want to play the game bc it's fun. That's the saddest part to me. They wanted to nerf my rewards rate, which I'm not even here for, so they do that by adding a fake layer of difficulty by giving me teammates that get 8+ deaths per game and dont know how to play glowflies. I can't imagine thats fun for them, either. So your rewards rate is "balanced" now, but its not fun for either party.
They tend to get carried during easier rotations, and they often stay in EVP because they will stop playing before they get demoted and wait for the next rotation for it to reset to 40.
Checkpoint at 250 is far too low... I would put it at 600. Worst case, 400, like Splatoon 2.
Some have said a checkpoint per map to try to balance things. And resetting per season back to 40. I feel like that would be a nice compromise between what Nintendo must want and what players are looking for.
Also fun fact Eggsecutive VP is thr most common rank in salmon run which further enchances this problem
Most common my ass
I can't get out of profreshional +2
@@theone.whoasked I got Splatoon 3 in late February and finally got into Eggsecutive VP like two weeks ago. I now have only been in Eggsecutive VP or Profreshional 3 since then. It takes a while (and going through LOTS of absolutely TERRIBLE teammates), but you'll get there.
@@20000dinoive been trying since game release. whenever i get a difficulty þat is my level, my teammates butcher it up and i just get deranked :') i reset to lowest lvl just to have a few wins a lot
I usually don't stick with the same teammates until a king salmonid if I feel like I'm carrying every single wave, especially if we failed on a very do-able wave. Guess my expectations are set too high most of the time lol.
Yeah. I know what you mean. Sometimes you have to queue for a new team just for the sake of your own sanity. But I try to give my teammates the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes a person is doing horribly and then pulls a 180 the next round.
@@splattuning Sometimes said person is me. My performance can be close to perfect, or I can be at the shore for 30 seconds because a steel eel happens to block the way back. And sometimes I just... do a whoopsie?
Nobody is perfect. I make some pretty dumb mistakes sometimes and think to myself "wow, they probably think I just got the game". Haha.
If we assume losses are equally likely on any wave, players hit equilibrium at a Hazard Level they only have a 33% winrate on. I think that's rather harsh, the system is supposed to tune difficulty to your performance but it ends up pushing players into a level that's too much for them.
Ancedotetally that lines up with my experiences in the mode I eme up with a 33% win rate. Definitely an odd WR for coop compared to pretty much any other video game.
It’s crazy how many people you see who will say “I’ll play until coho/horrorboros” now, the salmometer incentive really works well.
True, that's how I play. It's all about the scales.
I'm perpetually stuck at EVP 40~100 and ocassionally get knocked down to Pro+3
It's SO incredibly common for me to get teamed with players who;
- Don't paint surfaces other than the ground
- Don't throw bombs long distances to revive teammates
- Don't deal with Flyfish, Stingers, Fish sticks, or even Maw
- Don't know how to squid roll
- Don't toss eggs to teammates who are closer to the basket and not in danger
- Don't back up from the shore even when multiple players are pressing "this way", especially during low tides
- Don't know about explosher shots and Flyfish
- Don't know that bombs explode on contact with parts of Steel Eels and Slamin Lids
- Refuse to paint paths for teammates even as a backline support, even if it's just painting a line up the Fishstick, or seeing that lessers have blocked off the path someone needs to go through
The sheer amount of players I've seen that do NONE of that is honestly so baffling compared to Splatoon 2 SR
I'm tired of getting demoted because people don't know how to throw bombs :')
What you’re saying about Fish Sticks is so true. I wish more people can realize that they can go from mild inconvenience to game-ending threat, especially on high tide.
I would even add to your list those who do nothing after getting splatted except spam help. Not realizing that down doesn’t mean out is such a representation of the “you do everything” mentality so prevalent. The only exception I’m willing to make for that is Marooner’s Bay normal tide.
I’d also add not utilizing walls even after someone paints them, especially during Glowfly Wave and Grillers. I used to always die in those rounds until I learned this trick. It is such a lifesaver.
One other thing I’d add is the grates. It may not seem much, but these are places you can take shelter from Flyfishes. All maps have them and are accessible except during high tide. Knowing this saved me so much.
Also I didn’t know about bombs exploding with Steel Heads! Gonna try that in tutorial. Thanks for this advice!
@@briankim1098Thanks for pointing out that grates also protect from (Flyfish) missiles in Salmon Run! I knew that this is the case for Tenta missiles, but I somehow did not think of transferring that knowledge to Salmon Run 😅
That's a very good list! I knew and do all of that except for bombs exploding on contact with parts of Steel Eels and Slamin' Lid. What's the relevance of that and which parts exactly cause bombs to explode on contact? How do you use that knowledge? Knowing this could improve my shifts.
Oddly enough, Eggecutive VP in Splat3 makes me want to retreat to Splat2's Profreshional. Not because of the difficulty spike but because of the poor payouts of scales.
Every time I dropped to pro two from my evp 80 because I lost my perfect team to the mode rotation, I go back and wait the 18 minutes for 3 people to que up with me for a simpler time of inkable walls, waddling snatchers, and splashdown.
@@P.cookie This too. The new movement options are nice but they make you fall into bad habits too quickly and I found myself playing worse than without in some instances. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an uptick of people returning back to Splat2's Salmon Run.
I do miss Splashdown and Bomb Barrage. Those specials are great in a pinch.
I feel like this is missing a huge point of Pro +1 is a fancy way of saying Pro 100, and EVP is a fancy way of saying Pro 400. The ranks stop in the same place as Splatoon 2, and this is even reflected in EVP players being able to play with pro players without preventing them earning points for a win. We are still being reset at the same point as before, but now there's an extra 400 points on the end of the scale, which aligns with the higher maximum hazard rank level.
That's not actually true, because when you rank up to Pro +1 you start at 40, not 0 making it significantly easier than 2 to keep ranking up.
And because players tend to value this rank, if they get on a bad loss streak they can just wait for the next rotation to restart at 40 points.
In 2, you can't gain points by waiting for a new rotation.
Both of these things cause a big convergence towards EVP.
Fish Scales are mostly random. You don't even need to beat the Kind Salmonid to get Scales.
He gave me a golden scale, what a Kind Salmonid!
Early on, I fell for the 'stay in Profreshional rank for easier Cohozuna kills!'. But now I refuse to leave EVP, even if it means not playing until next rotation. I do wish there was checkpoints in EVP since I do wanna get some 400+ badges, but I simply don't have the time to grind for them.
When u die once and everything goes to crap- Looking at the death to revival ratios of my teammates can be so painful-
That's when you learn to prioritize your life over teammates because you being alive is ultimately the most important thing for the team. Ignore the crying squids, you've got a basket to fill
I've had some matches where I get nearly 30 eggs without dying once
And still lose.
And when I look at the results, there's
Two guys who somehow die 5 times and couldn't even manage to get even 10 eggs.
I don't really like to blame my teammates for my losses, but there's only so much I can do with results like that.
I can only carry so hard.
I legitimately find the higher ranks of executive vp far more fun and less frustrating as in those ranks, everyone usually manages to pull their weight.
Yeah, I think more people need to examine the results screen. Without replays, it's the best(and only) way to determine what you could have done differently. In my experience, EVP players usually have more trouble with taking out enemies rather than collecting eggs, but I know what you mean about some players floundering.
And I wish those players who aren’t contributing would demote themselves…but sadly, they don’t.
The issue is they're oblivious to what they could be doing better. Salmon run needs a better way of telling players what went wrong after a match. On top of that, it's too easy or lucky to get into EVP.
Im a top 5% player and I can say that this video is just putting all of the worst problems currently in salmon run together and saying "well if you look at it this way now its actually good" which i hope i don't have to tell you why thats wrong.
I exclusively play with other top 5% players that I know in vc because getting matched with bad players in the highest rank, is definitely NOT a good thing for anybody.
As I said, I don't agree with the reasoning, nor do I think it can't be improved. But I just wanted to make the video since it seemed like some people didn't realize there was some thought behind it, even if it is misguided. But thank you for the comment.
There’s still a huge difference between EVP players that just made it out of “profreshional hell” and EVP players that can handle the difficulty of the rank fairly well. And honestly the wildcard / golden wildcard events feel like they enhance the problem of weak players in EVP. Though I believe they are normally followed by more difficult comps. Perhaps difficult comps should be added more often into rotation to try and help filter out weaker players from stronger players
The only reason why people call SR hard is because nobody did the tutorial, like make us do Training first and then let us do Freelance.
The thing is that something I noticed is that the moment I got above 300-500 in EVP during the recent random rotation (on the road to 999), suddenly basically every teammate that was hopeless is filtered out of matchmaking. There's a certain level of people getting stuck at low EVP, essentially a bell curve of people around that low level or just below.
I think they may EVENTUALLY add the checkpoints, as those were a post launch thing in 2 and they might do it as a thing to keep high tier salmon run players engaged. Idk fully, maybe I'm wrong about that, probably am.
Honestly, there's lots of ways they could split the players into different matchmaking even without checkpoints. They do it in PVP modes. Win/loss ratio factors in for those modes as well as rank. They could do something similar, but it would basically make the bottom completely fall out of EVP if they did something like that. That isn't necessary a good thing though.
There's probably not a perfect solution, unfortunately.
@@splattuning I agree tbh. Sadly it is a difficult thing to handle well
Generally it seems like a 30 quota on wave 3 is generally the limit for alot of lower EVP players. So once you get to around 200-300 EVP (depending on rotation difficulty) your only really left with competent players some can still carry you, but almost all are pretty solid. So alot of losses come down to either a tough night wave or getting slammed with a ton of problematic bosses.
@@jammyman7085 I think that's definitely a lot of the case. Even so I'd say on at least Gone Fission Hydroplant a lot of the tough night waves are decently manageable due to the layout (has arguably the best spot for glowflies in the game)
"Wow what a great day to play Salmon Run!"
Glowflies:🤨
the only thing that system has achieved so far is pushing me to stop freelancing because im tired of carrying matches lol
Even with the ranking system setup in such a way to be more "fair" and get players to keep playing . . . beyond getting the 1200 pts and rewards, there isn't much reasons for players to really stick it out with how horrible the drop rates are for scales (mainly gold and silver) for those prices in the shop. The few friends I got to get into playing Splatoon 3, and a few online that I know, all just don't bother playing Salmon Run after getting all the rewards, King salmon encounter or not.
Theirs and my own major gripe, after getting the initial rewards, is the lack of gains from it compared to just playing Turf War and Anarchy. You don't gain account exp and catalog exp is gimped compared to even losing in Turf War or Anarchy. Sure you can keep getting the extended rewards for chucks, but the cost of adding abilities to gear drains that pool in an instant. And a personal one for me, that really isn't that significant, is that your ink usages doesn't count in Salmon Run doesn't contribute towards Wandercrust!
I love playing Salmon Run, and it's great that Nintendo added Big Run and now Eggxtra Work...but the regular stuff just ain't enough.
And those friends and online friends I metioned? Most of them aren't playing the game anymore after the first season because there isn't enough intensive in the game over all to keep them in it.
this is exactly the problem! i don't get why nintendo essentially punishes players for being more invested in salmon run.
because you gain points faster the higher your rank, your reward for levelling up is... having to play salmon run LESS? the only real incentive for people in EVP to play SR for more than like a handful of wins is for the bragging rights of having a higher EVP level. this is how you foster an unhealthy mindset among your playerbase where rank becomes the only thing they care about.
when you consider how much RNG factors into your success (boss spawns, tide level, weapon rotation, wave type, freelance teammates), and that losing two first waves at the start of a rotation will drop you back down to pro+3, of course players pushing for a higher rank are going to be angry as hell (either at the game or at their teammates). anarchy battles on the other hand still reward you with guaranteed catalog/weapon/clothing XP and $$$ so at least players get a consolation prize if they lose (and they also can't derank).
I have passion when it comes to SR as I got EVP 999 for the first time yesterday. Since you can't win them all and you have a limited time window, it took me well over 9 hours of gameplay to finally get it and with a little bit of luck. Usually I don't mind Freelance (I can manage HLM alone w/ randos in this mode) but there is a point where my hands can't play forever as even fatigue will kick in and make me worse. I managed to get a group to help me break this "curse" of mine but yes. Everything you said in this video hits the bullseyes.
Yeah. I still haven't even played beyond EVP 400 on any map due to the time investment. Congrats on your hard work.
I dislike the new system. Sink or swim.
The best Idea I have for Salmon run in general would be to let players when they in a rank like professional they could lock it into that rank so they can not go to a higher rank if they want like Professional +1 but they can still go down a grade by losing and the only reason why I like this idea is because it means players can play a difficult Salmon Run in there rank but they can get use to it and then when they're ready they could jump into getting to the next rank.
This right here. That would honestly be amazing.
They already allow people to demote themselves, which is what I do when I've been carried too far.
I don't want to play with scrubs that only play for the 1200 points, they aren't as invested in the mode and are honnestly a pain to play with because of that. EVP 40 is a nightmare, but once you go above 100 it's quite enjoyable. So the system kinda works, it separate diehards from scrubs, but depending on luck it can be quite a chore to escape from ~EVP40. I wish some kind of checkpoint existed so I wouldn't have to hard carry my first rounds of SR just to be able to have nice games afterwards. I want nice games now, having to grind an hour of SR to finally gain access to teammates of my level is ridiculous !
I'm a 'scrub' that only plays til 1200, but I'm actually very good at the mode and have a solid grasp and understanding of luring and boss salmonid prioritization, movement, team dynamics/flow, weapon roles, etc. I'm often the best player on my team until I reach 300 (which I don't go for often)
it sucks because with the reward cap ofc 'scrubs' who only play for the 1200 points aren't ever going to be motivated to actually get better at the mode. if nintendo spread out the rewards more or fixed the scale drop rates i bet the skill level of the average casual SR player would increase big time (bc they'd be actually motivated to learn how to play/play more)
I don't think he was actually saying every person who stops at 1200 is a scrub. I think it was more to the point that some people play specifically for that reason and aren't interested in getting better. A lot of people who stop at that point know what they're doing much like you.
My problem is that I don't really play enough in one shift to do a full rank up even if I play well, so if I get crappy teammates and lose on first wave twice in a row I'm just done with salmon run until the next shift.
Out of curiosity, is it to keep yourself from demoting?
@@splattuning For sure. I get better teammates in higher ranks, and I'm not bad at the game, I'm just not good enough to carry a team of 4 when there's a squidbagger and someone trying to use tapshots with the grizzco stringer (not to mention the number of people that will dive to the shore at the start of a round and then never leave it dragging all the bosses away from the basket).
Another issue I have is that I'm probably never going to be able to experience hazard level max because I don't have the time to grind for that many points in an 18 hour period of time.
@@MudakTheMultiplier the grind for hazard level max during an average rotation is insane!
your best bet for reaching HLM is during a golden weapon rotation or big run, with golden rotation being the easier route (i think)
of course, the problem is waiting for either of those events to happen lol
I see what you mean about retaining your rank, but I'd advise that you don't worry about it so much. Obviously losing winnable matches isn't fun, but the practice is worth dropping rank imo.
@@splattuning the difference between playing 4 matches on a good shift and 2 matches on a bad shift is not that big for me. I just don't have the time to play more than that usually so if I derank I'm stuck with worse teammates for a couple weeks at least.
It may be working as designed…but it’s annoying. Too many players in freelance move up too easily and have no idea what they’re doing. Perhaps if you’re playing with friends and have a coordinated team it works well…but I’ve basically been demoting myself every time I reach EVP because there are too many players who have no clue how to kill some of the bosses or simply go rogue and don’t help the team effort. I find in the lower ranks I can control the outcome of the matches more where the higher ranks require a good team effort…which I rarely see. So although I enjoy Salmon Run, I’ll never earn any of the EVP badges because I can never get past EVP 200 when I do decide to hang around in EVP.
I honestly applaud this approach. I'm sorry that you have to resort to this strategy, but it's really cool that you're not obsessing about rank.
As someone who can’t play with a set team (friends) , I recommend joining pools specifically for salmon run, kind of like Hazmy’s Pool. Also make sure to join someone that has the same rank as you, I’ve lost with someone at Profreshional +3 and went from EVP 70 to EVP 40 :(
i miss the first month of the game when everyone at eggsecutive was CRACKED. it was so fun because despite the overwhelming amount of bosses, every match felt manageable because of the skill level
Hard disagree with this design philosophy. EVP needs checkpoints, PERIOD. From a design perspective, Salmon Run is a mode that is needlessly grindy compared to turf and anarchy and for no meaningful reason. We know the obvious complaint about scale scarcity and overpriced rewards, but let's ignore that for a second. You know what else sucks about the SR grind? After your superbonus you're only rewarded with duplicate gear converted into ability chunks, whereas in PVP modes you're rewarded with a continuous flow of cash, weapon mastery, leveling up gear, and so on. In Salmon Run, unlocking your catalog is SLOWER than in other modes. You know what would actually incentivize more players to play Salmon Run rotations for longer? Consistent rewards, no matter how many points you earn.
As a returning Salmon Runner from Splatoon 2 I love this mode and mainly play it because I enjoy it, and don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic about all the fun cosmetics, QOL, events, and attention it's been getting from development this time around in Splatoon 3. But with how the rewards trail off the longer you play a rotation, it just feels like you're being... punished? For playing SR instead of PVP??? If anything, the superbonus cutoff and limited catalog exp is what actually causes most players to cut their SR playtime short and play other modes.
In terms of my personal enjoyment of SR, I want to play the game at the hazard levels I find most challenging and fun, right from where I left off in a fairer EVP checkpoint. Even if I formed a group of higher-skilled players instead of diving into Freelance, I don't have as much time in my personal life to grind out the EVP badges for each map before the shifts rotate. These badges feel like less of sign of your skill and more of a "you were willing to play this mode for 7+ hours in less than 2 days to get to EVP 999 are you jobless?" grind token. I don't want to spend the start of each rotation dragging potentially inexperienced players out of their comfort zone into unmanageable difficulty levels. I am not worried about lower rank players being "left behind" in terms of SR pay; these players will improve with time and experience, and so will their rank, even without the hard carry of more seasoned players.
If nothing else, read the last paragraph of this response.
A lot of good points made here. But I feel like I only half agree for one reason. Is playing the game the reason for playing or the rewards? This goes for all modes.
Like in Splatoon 1, there was money, level, rank, and leveling gear. My memory is a little foggy so I might be wrong. Does it make the game better to have increased rewards across the board?
Weapon badges for instance are also a sign of dedication much like the salmon run badges. Defeat 1000 steel heads. What does that mean? Someone played a lot. I don't think the badges were ever meant to be gamed. They were added to award dedication. So the grind for the max rank badges is a mark of dedication rather than achievement much like just about every other badge in the game.
So here's the thing. I'm not saying you're wrong. I feel like it's a complicated situation. It all depends on what the rewards mean to someone and what they want out of the game. I do think rewards should be extended for the super bonuses but at a lower frequency for players. And it's potentially unfair to have such paltry catalog experience. But good or bad, they definitely want people to be playing pvp more than salmon run for whatever reason. But I sincerely thank you for such a thoughtful comment.
@@splattuning You're welcome, and thank you for making a video on this topic in particular! It's sparked a lot of interesting discussion. It's a complicated point so I will clarify, no I don't believe that the rewards should be the sole reason a game mode is played at all. It's kind of both. Rewards do incentivize many players to keep at it for longer. It's kind of how Big Run brings back a lot of players; part of it is to join in a limited time event for fun, but the rewards are certainly a big incentive too.
I agree that rewards like weapon badges and boss salmonid badges aren't a grind but rather earned over time through dedication, that is a bit of oversight on my end. But my gripe is more with EVP resetting to 40 in terms of trying to hit Stage badges and to continue playing Salmon Run at the same intensity I left it last. I guess my example would be your rank resetting slightly in Anarchy when a season ends. Imagine if your Anarchy rank reset from S+ to A/A+ every 40 hours, instead of every season? That's kind of how it feels, like my sense of progression is stomped out when SR rotates over. I know it's not entirely fair to compare PvP to PvE when Salmon Run technically has an end difficulty point, max hazard. But that's part of where my frustration lies. I'm certainly not gonna stop playing SR if I ever hit EVP 999 or max hazard on all maps, but I'd love to actually get there without cramming 7+ hours in a 1 and 2/3 days period.
With all the focus and QoL that has been put into Salmon Run, it baffles me that they've made these decisions to make people want to play PvP more and Salmon Run less? I sincerely wish it weren't the case. All the modes are fun and players learn a lot about the game through each of them.
I think it's more that salmon run is in universe work. So it's like you don't want to be working for too long? I don't know what the reasoning is.
It's not even that they don't want people playing. It's that there seems to be an ideal amount of time to play. But then they added the badges just in case someone decided to play longer. It's strange.
This is really interesting how something I have taken for granted has a lot of nuance. This is a great video!
Need more ranks or each map gets its own rank. The system needs an upgrade, not to punish lesser players but to help both high and low players have fun and a good challenge. I can't tell you the levels of frustration I've had to deal with each rotation dealing with random teammates who just don't get it. You can't be perfect every round or match and shit happens but when I am having to carry or save my team way too much it stops being fun. I luckily have found a few people to play with but I don't have any form of communication with them outside the game yet and may never will. When I do randomly get good teammates is when I can actually cut loose and snatch 50+ eggs sometimes. I guess I've learned the only way to truly win is be a show off hot dog in all modes in Splatoon.
Understandable but splat 2 salmon was better imo cuz checkpoints. You didn't have to get paired up with people who actually like they didn't play the tutorial every new rotation
I honestly leave more when my slamometer is high
Doesn't matter if there's a king salmonoid, if we can't clear wave 3
And even if we do get a king, I'd much rather have the group that can pop horroboros with 42 seconds remaining than the group of idiots that can't even get it to half health
They really have to add rank up shifts at this point to keep everyone at their skill level
There's also the fact that your rank is reset to 40 every time which means you only need to win 3 times in a row to rank up. Really easy if it's a good rotation
Yep. It's like they don't want players to demote. Anyone who is that worried can just stop playing for the day if they get to 0. Then they get saved by the bell. And the cycle continues.
I've heard somewhere else that king salmonids spawn based on the amount of full meters. 1 full meter makes it have a chance to spawn while all 4 guarantees it. Great reasoning on the rest of the video though. But I still want salmon run to give more catalogue xp as it is by far the worst of the 3 ways to get it
Yeah, I think it is a chance, but that's sort of the point. The king salmonids make it so all players are playing for about the same amount of time. But you're right, it's only a sure fire spawn if everyone has a full meter.
I was usually like evp 400 where people know what theyre doing but ever since i got lazy and ranked down to evp 40 everyone dies when theres like 10 bosses on stage lol and i have to save all of them all the time
Had to freelance for roughly 16 hours to get to 999 on the random rotation. It's so absurd to have to grind so hard in a single sitting to get a golden badge because of the rank reset between rotations. It's like they forgot people have jobs.
Yes. That's true. But on the other hand, it's good that they have a goal for the most dedicated players unlike in Splatoon 2. It's a double edged sword though given that it puts more pressure on players to unlock these badges.
It's funny how this system is supposed to encourage playing Salmon Run more when, for me, it fails that job horribly and I treat it as if it's Splatoon 2's Salmon Run. I just want the bonuses. My meter is full and i just need one win to fight coho? Not worth my time with the scale drops like they are now. The rates go up the higher my rank? Well not that much of a higher rate plus I lose all my hard earned exp and drop back to EVP 40 at the end of the rotation. Imagine playing PVP and reaching level 100 or 999 only for the next day to come and you're dropped back to level 30. It's not incentivizing, it's defeating. Add the fact that you get punished hard for failing a shift and you have a bad system. How about raising the scale drop rates slightly higher for everyone and give ACTUAL rewards in the shop that can add natural replayability to Salmon Run instead of this artificial system. Let me pay for a grizzco weapon for a shift or three or allow me to buy some ink resistance up to make myself a little bit harder to kill. Yeah, it'll make the gamemode easier but the point is to have fun and replay the game. Apologies for the rant.
Nintendo needs to make getting to EVP harder cause when the ranks reset it just means that I have to play extra hard to make up for teammates who dont kill bosses fast enough or die too much. I personally dont mind the reset to 40, it makes getting 999 a more impressive achievement, but they should definitely make it harder for profresh+3 players to get EVP.
One checkpoint at 100 or 200 would almost certainly separate the player base to a significant degree without diminishing the achievement much.
But yeah. It can be an uphill battle at 40. Given the fact that it hasn't changed since the game launched though, I feel like salmon run is working as intended. The real issue is the lack of training that players get on the way to EVP. We want more players in EVP, but the game needs to educate players better about their mistakes. It's far too easy for a player to think "we got unlucky" or "it was their fault".
@@splattuning this tho. i'm still in the low Profreshional zone and i'm genuinely unsure how much i'm messing up or if it's genuinely the fault of the team (tho oftentimes i'd expect it's all of us)
@@CaptainBedtime Without knowing any other information, the best advice I can give is don't go down no matter what. Because you're out for around 10 seconds if you get splatted. Beyond that, attack anything in range, even if you can't defeat it before you have to move. Any damage is helpful. That's including lesser salmonids (and maybe especially lessers). The egg requirements aren't super high, so as long as your teammates can move, they'll hopefully turn the eggs in.
Best of luck though.
I kinda stopped bothering with Salmon Run as much as I used to. Cause the Scale Drops for King Salmons are absolute trash. I'm not that good at Salmon Run admittedly, Overachiever Rank, but I just cannot deal with getting like 5 Copper and maybe 1 Silver every King Salmonid Boss. It gets frustrating trying to grind that low drop rate
When I get to Profreshional +3 I demote myself because profreshional +2 honestly has better overall players than +3 and VP
It’s just so punishing for such a team based game, and they don’t teach you tatics you will need to constantly win, like luring. And the reward are absolutely garbage and I the only thing that makes it playable is the money and chunks, and the grind is just unfun, you will have to stop as its so demoralising to grind and lose a rank, or to get bronze scales
While this is how the game is intentionally designed.
I personally massively disagree with their design decisions.
The obcene amount of grind required to get the rewards in the first place are gonna make them more inaccessible than the ranking system and strong players stopping salmon run for the day.
The best solution isn't to hamper the experience of other players to make the grind barrier easier to overcome you lower the grind barrier to where you don't have to put in hundreds of hours to get what you want.
If you're gonna put hundreds of hours into something it should never be because it's a prerequisite to really have fun with the game it should be because the game itself is that fun.
And in order to do a lot of things such as experimenting with gear builds or just unlocking rewards at grizzco that will take hundreds of hours of grind and I get having stuff which take that long to get be for the people who are die hard fans but they take it to the absolute extreme when literally everything actually worth something to the player will require hundreds of hours of grind.
I hate that they have all of this artificial grind attached to the game and it is really hurting it in the long run.
Strictly speaking from hazard level scaling alone, the Splat 2 Profreshional checkpoints are still in 3, they're just separated into Profreshional +X and the base EVP checkpoint, and then they added another 400 points of rank to climb through
Yeah, I think the optics just look bad with no checkpoints across 999 points. But it's likely very similar to the old system. The pay rate did have to be lowered though given the higher egg counts. Obviously I'm talking from Nintendo's perspective to keep the number of matches required for the super bonuses to stay the same or increase.
And realistically, the short term "one more match" is less of what they intended compared to incentive of collecting scales over long periods of time to keep players returning to the mode and game as a whole.
The thing is, artificial roadblocks like you are describing to "keep players engaged" are the number one thing that drives me away. EVP freelance is hell in this game. I'm good enough that I'm the player that the game is trying to make carry, but not good enough that I can actually pull it off reliably enough to get into the higher levels of EVP. Having to constantly carry bad players who wouldn't be anywhere near this rank just isn't fun and kill enjoyment. The rewards from the scales are far too grindy and far to insubstantial to even make then a reason to play to begin with, let alone a reason to keep playing after the fun dies.
Well it's more about the imaginary rewards that keep people playing. But I feel like us as the players might be more of the problem. The game exists as it is and it's our opinions and mindset that allow us to enjoy it or not. I'm still formulating some ideas for the next video which will cover what I'm hinting at, but I hope you aren't too discouraged from playing the mode or game in general.
@@splattuning No you're not the problem.
A lot of games have shown otherwise and games are forgoing a lot of simple but effective methods for the season pass style methods. Systems which are so time consuming they stop you from playing other games.
It is basically trying to eat people's time and attention so they can't have their time and attention stolen by another system doing the same. It stops being about fun but player retention.
By resetting frequently and having systems forced to keep retention you create an illusion of infinite progression. It eventually leads to burnout and distaste for the system even opting out of games which use it completely.
But they only added rewards for players to get IF they want them. The mode isn't mandatory nor are the rewards.
So the only way it feels like a grind is by focusing on the cosmetics too much. As it stands, half an hour or so of salmon run gets both super bonuses. So playing to that point and stopping isn't much of a grind.
I'd argue players care too much about holding onto their rank. Anyone who feels like it's too difficult can opt to demote with very few penalties.
So it's not really the game that burns people out. It's their desire for getting long term rewards quickly. The scales are only meant to keep players in the game slightly longer. But it's more of a reward for playing the game over long periods of time.
I always thought it was because of the rank badges for the maps but okay
Exeggutive is the common mode? I always thought it was profreshional. I've been stuck there ever since I began playing.
It's hyperbole. I just meant that many people are in EVP. Regardless of anything I might have said in the video, salmon run takes a lot of time to gain the experience needed to know what to do in most situations. Just keep at it.
forcing me to carry these lil timmies smh this is why i always play salmon with a friend that actually knows how to play the game
The idea that people who are getting carried are actually learning something from the people carrying them is a heavy dose of copium, but yeah this does make me realize this system is working as intended and therefore won't be fixed. Ouch.
Not necessarily. It could still be revised. I think there's room for actual training for players to get better somehow. I just haven't figured out how to crack the code. I'm working on some potential solutions.
I don't think anything they did was by chance, but I also don't think it's final. They're under time constraints so I think it could be the best idea for now, but hopefully not forever. It just depends on the intent they have for salmon run.
unpopular opinion: i kinda wish we could choose our weapons in Salmon Run. Would make the mode a lot more fun and appealing to everyone
Idk if that's an unpopular opinion. However, I think it would have a negative impact overall. Part of the challenge is using weapons that you're unfamiliar with in every situation. Or that it's not a well rounded weapon. And someone would get stuck with one they don't like anyway.
If you mean pick any weapon, I think the mode would get boring to play with the same weapon all the time. And the player could use different weapons if they get bored I suppose.
But it would probably make it too easy. There are definitely some lower tier weapons that would never get used.
Overall, random weapons are probably the best choice for the mode I think. But who knows really.
It would make my life easier for capturing footage though...
I've never burned myself out of a game harder than when I was trying to get from Profresh to EVP last month.
My problem is that i never win the 3rd wave but i make it to the 2nd so i dont get ranked down. Always losing and not earning shells sucks so i almost never play salmon run 💀
There's no shame in demoting. Honestly, the practice would help. And if you're having trouble by the third wave, you'll get grizzco points much faster in spite of the lower pay grade if you can complete the round at a lower rank.
I feel like that wasn't very clear. Completing a round with a lower pay grade earns more points than a higher pay grade match where you lose. You automatically get 50 points multiplied by your pay grade just for winning a match.
I get the idea but i actually dont care about the xtra waves. I do get my rewards before xtra somehow, and even if i see it full after the superbonuses i still don't feel like i wanna do one more
Right. I don't think everyone falls into that trap, but it just seems like that's the intent. Personally, I usually try to fight a king per rotation, but not always. Anyway, thanks for the comment.
Oh my UA-cam recommended this video a year later, ha ha. I personally heavily dislike salmon run, however due to Splatoon three and the rewards "Big Run / Extra Work" it made the mode more interesting to me as there are many awful players complaining on media applications on why they can not obtain 130+ eggs for Gold. I am acceptable at the mode since The Sequel and I decided to learn the mode and go into servers of over fishers to help learn the spawns and manipulate the Ai of the salmonids. Then I formed a small over fishing team that we play together for every big run / extra work event and we obtain gold in the first five minutes of the event and just stop playing the even all together as there is no incentive to continue, especially now that we already know what the minimum threshold is. As back then it was up in the air as the top five percent could be 170+ golden eggs which made us continue to play in hopes of obtaining that golden trophy which we did still in the first hour or so of the event, ha ha.
As someone who played Salmon Run into Splat2, seeing my teammates make the stupidest decisions
Like not popping Special when like 3 of our teammates are downed resulting in the match loosing, not properly luring, not trying to deal with the Flyfish and Stingray Salmonids, it’s so annoying.
Also, my Teammates not knowing how to effectively fight King Salmonids is so annoying.
Like utilizing Joe to kill the Boss Salmonids to get easy Golden eggs to attack his weak points
Video looks pretty good so far, though I wonder where you sourced the formula from, just for credibility
Good point. I'll add it in the description.
i feel like an evp 400 checkpoint would work in separating the huge amount of evp players and let the less experienced play with similar skilled players rather than with players that are trying for 9’s and being brought down. it’s high enough where it’s difficult to get to and still makes the grind to 9’s difficult but it eases the stress of not only the time to grind but bad teammates because you can pretty safely assume someone who hit evp400 is competent at the game. it’s also so demotivating to get to high evp levels like 800-900 then be brought all the way down to 40 because it took you so long to get out of evp 40-400
I don't know the answer to this, but do you think it would make the max rank badges too easy to get? I feel like a lot of people already got them, and I think it's important to not take that accomplishment away from them.
I think 9’s would still be very difficult to get as you’d still be playing at an insanely high hazard level it just helps reduce the time spent in the lower hazards which don’t take as much effort to get through if you have teammates similar in skill to yourself
Right. It wouldn't change the difficulty. I misspoke. But it would make it more attainable which might annoy those who did it prior to the change.
honestly I think having more rewards after 1200 points in the first place would create more incentive to play and grind to 999EVP
But do they actually want players to grind to 999? That's the question I've been mulling. Obviously they made it possible to do. But it's almost like they designed it purely for bragging rights.
They almost need to make an x rank of sorts for salmon run once players hit 999. And they could get 2 more super bonuses or something. But then it adds the issue of people feeling even more like they NEED to get to 999 because they're missing out.
But too many super bonuses would kind of break the game. It's already potentially much faster to earn cash in Salmon run, although it's definitely a gamble compared to the other modes.
Salmon run is currently second class for some reason.
@@splattuning well, they made the salmon run stage badges for EVP999 and there’s plenty of people in the community that want to collect everything. Myself included! I just don’t like the argument/defense for the horrible matchmaking for salmon run/turf war/anarchy that if you’re good enough you should be able to carry your team. What?? This is a 4 player co-op game. Each teammate should hold their own weight and contribute “evenly” (I put that in quotes because every weapon has its own duty to fulfill and sometimes that’s splatting and sometimes it’s inking).
I totally agree. But I also think that there's a complex balance they're trying to keep.
I think the main problem with salmon run is actually that one player can push others up in rank. Then since the egg requirements go up each wave, it's most likely that people will fail in the third wave, resulting in no rank loss. So there isn't a clear indication that they should maybe demote to get more practice, but they're unlikely to actually rank down because they do just good enough.
I think part of the issue I see is that people *don't want* to rank down, even if it'd give them a better time. I know people who got carried to Pro+2/+3/EVP who *really* weren't ready for it, but now refuse to play with people who can't carry them because they're terrified of ranking down, even though the difficulty they're at is too stressful for them.
Yep. People obsess over the wrong things. Practicing at a lower rank would actually help to get better rather than basically hitting a brick wall and barely being able to contribute due to not having the experience.
Yeah I think checkpoint’s would make it easy for experienced players, but the only drawback is that it’s incredibly HARD to get 999 rank map badges
Do you think checkpoints would somewhat diminish the dedication it takes? If I were developing the game, I'd be worried about making it easier and therefore invalidating the sense of accomplishment that those players feel.
@@splattuning As someone who got stuck after evp 600, no
The sheer skill to reach 9s is already quite high
And I find it increadibly discouraging knowing that even if I get good enough, I can never get 9s.
I have a job, and can't dedicate half my time to salmon run
@@PlasmaCore I don't have the time either, so I can relate. I understand where you're coming from, but just try not to worry about it.
And don't feel discouraged about it. If you don't have the time, you don't have the time. It's just a badge. Focusing on trinkets like that will only take away from the fun of actually playing.
Personally, I doubt I'll ever do it. And I'm ok with that. I just don't think it's fair to remove an obstacle that other people have overcome to get those badges.
Sorry you're feeling discouraged about it though. And doubly sorry if it sounded like I was being elitist. Again, I don't have the badges.
I'm sad that this system punishes our best players who farm scales 😭
There should honestly be some sort of minimum rewards for defeating a boss salmonid.
• yeah im tired of being evp 400 and only getting 6 bronze and 1 or 2 sliver when I win against a boss
Scale payouts are bad and only two Kings right now, one of them is very uninteresting. I think they need a better system in general. You need more cool bosses and variety and better payouts if you want people to care about the Salmon meter. You don't even get paid for climbing, every SR player has 100s of chunks and they're poor if they buy from shops daily. A simple "we'll pay you a little less cash than Turf Wars for playing SR based on how many waves you clear" would be nice.
I'm just fortunate enough that EVP 0-200 is easy enough for me to carry most teams and I can get to the King no problem, but its kinda discouraging when I get three players dying like 5-6 times and I'm just team reviving since I'm not dying.
Yeah, I really don't get why they changed SR gear from 3 slot, random filled to random slot, always filled; swapping for cash was always the best option (if the gear had filled slots that was the pity reward!)
I got to eggsecutive vp,when I was unprepared. My hazard levels went from 120% to 170%. I ended up demoting myself all the way just to enjoy salmon run again.
I just want more difficulty. I don't care about rewards. Even with checkpoints (which you get by grinding for many hours for every single map) the difficulty you get reset to every rotation is way too low. I just want HLM every time for half a dozen matches every couple days because I know I can handle it, I don't want to grind for hours.
Being ranked EVP is so great; would love to get it someday. -Cries in being profresh+2 for 4 months-
Just keep practicing and learn as much as you can from all the available resources. And read the results screen carefully.
If you had a crew wipe, more salmonids needed defeated. Bosses and lessers. If there weren't enough eggs collected, it's usually a combination of things. Probably there were too many salmonids around in tandem with the bosses being defeated too far away from the egg basket.
And be careful about throwing eggs. You can put yourself in a really disadvantageous situation if you throw an egg with too many enemies around.
@@splattuning Ah, thank you! I really appreciate this! I’ll keep this in mind next time. I think I tend to get tunnel vision, and don’t think about my teammates enough, I’ll try to work on that too!
EVP 400 and lower is a joke it's full of profresh +3 players, in my opinion players shouldn't be able to carried from profresh to EVP since it fills the whole EVP rank with bad players. Trying to get to 999 can be a pain with the boring low hazard level and the profreash Evp players in freelance. Checkpoints should come back so we only play with good players instead of playing with a mix of bad players, the only way to improve is to change/experiment how you play see what works and what doesn't you could also record your self and see what you could of done differently.
I think this whole design of resetting specifically at EVP 40 is causing more problems than solutions. It's very easy to get carried up to EVP, and within that range where it resets to 40 it is possible to get queued up with people who are stuck in "profreshional hell"; Which spells doom for some matches since it's at around the top of profreshional +3 and bottom of EVP where the salmonids can start to get overwhelming without proper tactics. So it results in a whole cluster of people having to go and beat their head against a brick wall playing with what is essentially RNG matchmaking of whether you'll get good teammates or not in an effort to grind the Grizzco reward capsules and shop system. Overall it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth because of how frustratingly inconsistent it can be, and that's before taking into account things like weapon and map rotations.
I'm not trying to sound elitist or anything, but the good players should be able to be checkpointed in the higher end of EVP if they want to so they can play with other good players and grind for scales if they like Salmon Run that much, especially since the shop prices are rigged and scale drops are mediocre at best. I feel like that it would hardly divide the playerbase since most people only really play for the 2 super rewards and maybe up until a king salmonid for that specific rotation.
when i was in eggsecutive for the first time i kept the rank for like one hour and then ranked down so much that i ended up in overachiever... i think it was the rotation and/or teammates and/or me
I hope that didn't discourage you. A lot of people in EVP have hundreds of hours of salmon run under their belt between this game and splatoon 2. Don't worry about rank. It's just a label.
@@splattuning it sure didn't. I'm back to eggsecutive since a week, but thank you :)
Glad to hear it.
Man this really puts in perspective just how much Splatoon has edged towards energy systems and skinner traps in its design. I mean they were always there but each game has ramped them up significantly. And 3 has also had less new content added.
I just find it annoying cuz it makes the badges a stupid grind, skip to play countless matches with players of varying skill sets to get the higher-level badges and it gets tiring after like the 10th match not to mention how often you can lose
Oh and dont forget the fact that lsosing round one bumps you down 20 notches and more when you derank keeping you playing longer simply so you fan get bafk to whwre you were
What's funny about this is that it has the adverse effect to me. It doesn't make me wanna keep grinding, it makes me wanna quit. I don't feel I'm being rewarded for my time, since the bonuses run out, you don't get any extra catalog points for the higher time investment, you barely make any money for buying clothing or the gacha, and the scales are so sporadic in what you get that it feels LOSING to the King Salmon nets you more than winning against it sometimes. Not to even mention the crazy amount of hours it takes to reach 999 each rotation, its so much frustration for so little payoff
I have the opposite experience. I actually get more cash from Salmon run for the first half an hour compared to spending that time in ranked. Plus the food tickets and ability chunks.
So I think they really just want people to play until 1200 or a king salmonid.
@@splattuning I really only exclusively play Salmon Run as its my favorite mode, and occasionally turf war, so the diminishing rewards over time is more noticeable to me. Makes it hard to afford stuff later on
I feel your pain. I do get what you're saying, but I think they tried to design the modes to be symbiotic. I don't think they intend for people to only play salmon run, but I know there are people like you who much prefer it.
So I know it's not my fault, but I'm sorry if you feel like your favorite mode gets a second class treatment.
@@splattuning Oh no need to apologize, hope I didn't come off as aggressive, more of was just venting
No worries. I just feel bad for the people like you who prefer salmon run since Nintendo keeps it as a side mode rather than a main attraction.
i think they should have checkpoints every 200 points and make it so your checkpoint is different per map, so like i could have evp 100 on hydroplant and evp 40 on sockeye
Completely agree. I think that would go a long way in terms of fairly balancing the ranks.
They changed it in this game for the ranked modes(probably due to ranks resetting each season), but it used to be ranks per mode. X rank is still per mode, but why should salmon run just be one rank?
I used to be EVP around 3 times iirc, and I even reached EVP just yesterday, but in the most part rn, I demoted myself frequently all the way down to go-getter when I reach Profreshional simply to help newer players and play more in general. It was hard to let go of the rank, but I feel that it’s better for me mentally and reaching EVP again gave me a peace of mind that EVP is never too far away if I wanted to go back up there. I don’t personally believe I deserve the rank anyway because I frequently do worse in the egg collecting and do more on the surviving, reviving, passing eggs, and trying to clear the space from bosses and lessers. I might help Regular Profreshionals in the future.
Honestly, there's no shame in demoting. It's not about "deserving" a rank or not. Just play and enjoy yourself.
I got a tornado wave with teammates that didn't know how to throw eggs. You probably know what happened
me at go getter because i had a losing streak the last time i played salmon run and barely ever play it:
(my peak was profresh +2 im pretty sure)
Takes a lot of practice. It's not actually everyone in EVP. It's just hyperbole.
Evp 100 atm, honestly it’s more based on the weapon pool and if it combos well with the map.
This. Sometimes I have some bad teammates or I do some very stupid actions, but most of the time we lose, it's the weapon loadout. Like have a charger, blaster, brush and roller. It's just not a good combo
I hate that they reset the Salmometer when the rotation changes. It's probably for that extra incentive to play, but it creates moments where I really want to play Anarchy but I am about to lose a full meter so I keep fishing even if I'm no longer having fun.
Yeah. I wish it carried over too. It still gives incentive to come back next time.
Now that there are two bosses, I could see if they kept a value per boss. Even if it didn't reset, it still won't make the boss spawn right away without. So is would still keep people playing together longer anyway.
And I think the meter could be better as just an extra incentive for salmon run rather than incentive to play longer for the current rotation.
I managed to stay in Egg VP for about a week but decided to derank because everyone sucks
I was dying by how he stretched out the good, so that the video was exactly 8 minutes long
I didn't even want to be in eggsecutive I just wanted to be in profreshional damn it.
System sucks.
My main issue is that I'll either go 2-3 shifts of wins and then the game will give me a communication error, sending me to a new group of randos who i'll tend to just hover on getting wiped wave 2 or 3, and now I've had a full salmonometer since 900 points, I'm at 1500 and i'll quit out anyway since nobody can get their act together to push that last little bit.
Or I'll get a bad team first game of the rotation, wipe wave 1, requeue and get another bad team, wipe wave 1 AGAIN and now I don't even want to play since I'm back in profreshionhell +3.
That definitely is unfortunate, but my advice is to stop worrying about rank in Salmon run. The money and ability chunks are nice, but it's not worth it if it's stressful. Just play to have fun and expect to lose often.
Sorry there isn't a perfect solution.
Now i love salmon run and it may just be me, but I feel like this mode is still "mini game-ified" rather than a stand alone mode. Like compared with anarchy, it just feels.. plain. No replays, the end screen doesn't tell you anything really about ur performance aside from who got the most eggs in, and scales feel almost Too random so the incentive is just kind of Blah. Maybe they just need more bragging-rights non-shop items or smth, idk. the suits are cool but imagine stunting on squids by earning cosmetics with ur personal performance (kind of like the map/grizzco stickers on ur banner)
Yeah. It definitely does get a second class treatment.
as a fella that could get to max lvl, i only play until i get all the rewards for that rotation :v
So rather then making it fun they made it so you are punished for taking a break?
Rather then fix things by making them approachable for casuals they made them so players have to carry lesser skilled players so those lesser skilled players could get the rewards rather then actually help those players in some way? That is how you make a game very toxic. As people learn of this hate should slowly become more common.
This is what happened in most other shooters. CSGO, CoD, Halo, TF2.
Well, to be fair, EVP still takes a fair bit of skill to get into. It's just a little bit of hyperbole. It's basically like if A+, S, and S+ got grouped together every 40 hours. But unlike the PVP modes, it's cooperative. They aren't being nefarious. Just a little sneaky.
The issue I see is that the difficulty spike in Profresh to EVP isn't balanced enough to make it where newer, inexperienced players cannot find and learn things enough to get better at the runs. If it was made to be able to be streamlined it would make the experience smoother imo. I've had times where I was usually EVP and I get knocked down to Profresh +1 just because of Freelance.
What do you think would help to train players to have the knowledge to do better?
Because I definitely think you're right that it's an experience problem rather than a skill problem.
This doesn't explain why the game sets the bar for EVP so low and doesn't send people back down the ranks enough. Wave 3 losses should still lose some rank in EVP instead of retaining.
Sorry if it wasn't clear. The bar is low to give players an inflated sense of accomplishment/a rank that is achievable for any player nearly. Then with all the players compressed into one rank, it slows the best players down by having to play with the typical player.
It's not all evil though and I regret painting it I'm that light. It also helps players learn from the best without having to seek outside resources.
I feel like the more I learn about how Salmon run works in Splatoon three the less inspired I am to keep playing. To me it just feels very anti-player.
It's not all bad. I regret painting it in such a negative light.
My recommendation is play it for half an hour every rotation or until you aren't having fun, whether it be sooner or later. That's enough time for 4 matches.
The king salmonids are tempting, but you need to be careful not to fall into the psychological trap of "but my salmometer is full".
I don't want to discourage anyone from playing the game or the mode. It's meant to be played in short bursts every day for the most bang for your buck.
I love me some salmonoids for breakfast, very nutritious
so basically… there is no incentive to play in higher ranks. just derank and farm king salmonids on the easy difficulties.
Well, it's not quite so simple. There are better rates for scales the higher your rank is. I'd have to do the calculus on win ratios and the probabilities, but depending on the player's skill level, there would be a rank where they are getting the most fish scales.
But it all depends on the player and how often and how quickly they can defeat a boss salmonid.
Edit: So the system is likely already set up to account for player skill. And there is rank threshold for getting scales. Below a certain rank, it's impossible to get golden scales. I don't remember what rank off of the top of my head though.
Thanks for explaining why the rules are like this. I personally find it very frustrating because I'm the kind of player that will grind to get the best possible rewards. But when I did the math and found that in order to get the 999 silver scale banner , I would need to play Salmon Run EVERY DAY FOR OVER A YEAR it's incredibly discouraging. I'm really hoping Nintendo offers some other way for farming scales faster, even if that means jumping directly into hazard level max with 4 snipewriters. I will happily take more difficulty for more scales.
well guess what? now you can 15 star it.
My takeaway from _all_ of this is that I should be joining a salmon run discord server and playing with people on voice chat since they will be better at the game than the average joe.
Depends on what your goals are. And voice chat is probably necessary for breaking records, but given the pace of a match, if everyone isn't always doing something useful, it's already too late for a call-out to be effective. But I could be wrong. I basically exclusively play in freelance so I don't know how much better it could get.
@@splattuning in my experience of going from casual ranked to on-a-team competitive splatoon rather recently, I think that having voice chat is invaluable, even if the players aren't playing the best. Being able to say "They're behind!" or "I'm popping [special]" is so useful since the people you're playing with are more aware of the match. In salmon being able to say "Can someone kill the stinger" when you're on eliter is equally as useful.
In Salmon run, special coordination would be greatly improved by voice chat. So you have a good point there.
I don't stick with teammates if we lose a wave knowing they won't make it to a boss salmonid level. I will only stick around if I think i think it was bad boss rng or an unlucky loss
Meanwhile I just keep demoting myself cuz I'm not into the harder difficulty and the scales suck too much to farm for, so I just pretend the rewards in that shop don't exist and hope they don't add anything I may want in the future.