Diagnosing a 2011 VW Jetta 2.5 Engine Stalling When Cold No Fault Codes (DTCs) Stored
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- The VW Jetta in this video has an engine that will stall mostly when cold and as the engine warms up, the stalling becomes less prevalent or goes away completely. No fault codes are stored. So Bernie has to be careful not to warm the engine up too much during his diagnosis, or he will lose the window when the issue is more consistent. The eSCOPE 8 -channel scope is connected to camshaft, crankshaft, fuel injectors and ignition to gather enough data to get direction right away. The input signals (Camshaft / crankshaft) are both consistent to the ECM but the injector signal drops out. With that information, Bernie monitors ECM power, ground, and current draw as well as some basic PIDs. Using this information, the ECM is determined to be faulty.
See some great techniques here, including how to see if the ECM is trying to keep a stalling engine running, how to tell if camshaft / crankshaft signal are shutting down injectors and much more. Another masterclass from Bernie.
Subscribe to ATS on UA-cam: / atstube8
eSCAN ELITE: www.automotive...
eSCOPE ELITE8 with Surface Pro tablet: www.automotive...
eCOP Ignition Pickup www.automotive...
ATS - Automive Test Solutions innovative tools & solutions to make the technicians job easier. www.automotive...
Something quite wholesome about Big Bern.
Hes the uncle that keeps the young engineer nephew occupied after holiday dinner.
I need to spend a year with this guy working with him every day! Good find as usual.
I have watched every video he has done and find myself pulling info ou of my head and recall the great information he has taught.
We all do
Very fancy tool. Here i am trying to diagnose vehicles with a stick and a rock.
Jaja, te la jalaste 😅
Don’t underestimate the tap test!
I really like your methodical approach. I tend to second guess myself at times like this, with so many inputs affecting the ECU an it’s output. But you never flinch. It is just awesome Bernie. Thanks so much
Using the EScope causes you to think differently about the data. In a sense it forces you to look at the big picture and not get distracted. Very impressive. Thanks!
That's the tool I should have bought... instead of all that snap-on junk. Ok, I do love my vantage pro... simple quick easy to use tool. This though, truly is the "one tool does all" (once you master it). =)
I love how Bernie just busts out the scope and uses all 8 channels...BEAST MODE!
Keep them coming they are great training videos and references when we get stuck on stupid thank you for the time you give to your fellow techs that take the time to learn
top notch work as always ! the art on the back of that hummer is epic lol
Very impressive and in depth diagnosis. Instead of throwing parts on it hoping for the best. Pretty sure a new ECU isn’t cheap.
Dang!! U r the bee's knees. Super diag. What a great tech!! Light years above most all. I'm learning at the foot of the Maestro
Top notch... VW content to boot!
Bernie I love your videos.
Be nice to see info that the ecu was replaced and it actually fixed the vehicle. Otherwise these squiggly lines don't hold any weight. This a a summary, not a fix.
Mind you, a very high probability that the ecu will fix the car, but unless the ecu is replaced we do not know for sure.
Exactly what we needed to make a FAR more accurate diagnosis of an ECM, Or any module for that matter. Thanks Bernie 😎👍
awesome way to approve a problem. Logic first and then step by step. I like it.
Get down Mr. Thompson ! Thank you for sharing your methodical approach
Great Video all the right checks performed. Really nice scope !
Thank you for sharing.
great video ...not a easy diagnoses to make in the shop....there is always some doubt of did i miss something
Have you checked ECM relay #460?
Awesome stuff! As much as I trust that you were right about the cause here, Bernie, the only lingering question: was the computer actually seeing the cam signal at the computer during the stall. You checked the cam signal at the sensor, but not at the computer. Was there something in the data that lead you to rule that out without checking. I’m just thinking that an open in the cam signal before it hit the computer could have been a factor!? Yes? No?
Bernie on another level
The injector you didn't look at has a partially shorted coil when cold causing the voltage regulator for the injector drivers in the ecm to overload and shut down. ----I doubt it, but that's how it would work for me.
well done, Bernie. Hi level diagnose.
Great video ,thanks for sharing your knowledge
Rob mobileman
Damm! This is just not old theory but actually good testing methods. As for the power and grounds more detail how was it hook up?
Probably backprobed at the ECU. SchrodingersBox has a good video on how this is done.
Is there any data that we can take a look for those who only have a scanner?
great job Bernie the amp clamp on pcm power or ground?
pwr,
he's checking for shorts, current can go through case or other pins, not necessary ground
Great video Bernie .Thanks for sharing
My old Ford focus used to do this. I took it to the dealer and they fixed it, not sure what they did but I think they said some thing with the ground. Unfortunately, it came back within a year.
I had this issue recently on a focus it was the PCM/ECU. You will need an ECU kit
ECU, instrument cluster & key. The blade can be changed from the old key to the new one. Hope this helps
@@kennedysgarage3281 Thanks. I got rid of that car long ago. I remember the dealer saying something about ECU needing to be reprogrammed and something about a bad ground. They didn't replace the ECU but then again the fix didn't last more than a year. This was a 2000 model, I got rid of it in 2009 with 230k+ miles on it (original timing belt too).
Wow......so good.......best diagnostic guy
Thanks for sharing Bernie... Cheers.
My wife's car is a 2015 vw gti and we started having this issue since August 2022 and it has been to the VW dealership 3 times for the same issue and they couldn't figure it out. We got it back in mid December and it ran fine for a month and now it's doing it again and we are going to get rid of it tomorrow. Sometimes the engine would stall on us going 55mph and then pull over and the car wouldn't start. And after 10 minutes it will just start like normal and some other times it wouldn't start and we had to get it towed.
THIS EXACT THING IS HAPPENING TO MY TDI. NO ONE CAN FIGURE IT OUT
I mean not exact but similiar
2007 Rabbit 2.5 stalling and at times does,t want to start. 186,000. No codes. Also I ran it for about 2 months with Netflix piping bad so I think it probably affected some things underneath the hood doing so. Ideas. Appreciate
Still one question remain unclear: Why the car seems to run better or stalls less when it's warmed up??!!!
I guess would be a bad solder joint in the ECM. Expands and then makes better contact once the engine bay warms up...
Sir...you are very Good!
Awesome
Nice work sir
Where do i get an automotive 8 channel scope for less than 11ty billion dollars
Great job. Thank you.
After nearly a year of diagnostic and (wrongly) throwing parts at my car, I have a feeling this is exactly what is happening in my 2011 jetta se
What was it?
@@X100PRE exactly this. The ecu crapped out.
This is happening to my car I’ve tooken it to 5 mechanics they can’t figure it out
@@rubyperez1892 can pretty much guarantee the ecu is bad, it's really hard to catch like this guy did.
Have you tried updating ECU firmware to later versions, like one released in 2014??
Wait, how did he know it was a computer??…I missed that part…did he verify every other possibility, or he found a smoking gun?
and finally channel 1000 connected to the rim
vw produced in 2011 with indirect fuel injection system (petrol engines ), injectors are fired individually, it's hard to believe that all the injectors are shut at once at the same time while the ECU is still receiving input signal from CMP and CKPS, and the ECU power supply and ground are okay, without any proof just simply confirmation of the ECU malfunction is not the appropriate way ,most of the time engine stalls when it is cold due to the fuel filter blockage particularly with indirect fuel injection system on petrol engines. Air filter and mass air flow sensor should have also been taken to consideration,either the injectors blockage, fuel pressure, fuel lifting pum operation too.
The proof is in this video.
and the well known vw fuel pump relay - cracked solder joints. That relay feeds power to injectors as well. I personally would not judge faulty ECU so quickly.
I wish i could afford that fancy scope and scanner.
Can't afford not to in today's cars nlol
good info thanks
WHY WOULD WE HAVE HIGH VACUUM LOADS? WHAT WOULD CAUSE HIGH VACUUM?
which eventually was the cause?
What is the likely issue if the car is doing the opposite? Fine on cold start up, stalls when warm
Did you ever find out??
Awesome !
Chido. Mi. Buen. Bernie
Everyone double and triple checks to make sure the computer is at fault. Can this also be caused by a wiring issue that it opens when hot? Thanks.
I don't think that is nearly conclusive enough to determine a computer replacement. I'd have to confirm every requirement is met for the injectors to fire. If all conditions are met then see if the command is leaving the computer, at the computer. You measured injector pulse at the injector. There can be faults between the computer and injectors that could pull the entire system down. Not sure if that system has a minimum fuel pressure requirement... but man would that be silly to replace a computer when a fuel filter is plugged, or a fuel pump is weak, or a return valve is malfunctioning. Granted some of those faults I would expect some error codes, but I'm not familiar with VW and would certainly take some time familiarizing myself.
Fairly certain that it would set a fault if there was an issue with fuel pressure. However I am much more familiar with the di VW engines than the 2.5. And with all 5 injectors shutting down I would think ecm related. But you are right, exhaust all options before calling an ecm.
So you think a clogged filter or a weak fuel pump will cause the ecm to stop firing the injectors? That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.
@@ssrbob Good reason you don't work in my shop, because there absolutely are manufactures that disable injectors below a minimum fuel pressure. Now why would they do that. Gee what if an injector sticks open filling the cylinder for a hydrolock condition, or filling the crankcase with fuel. Or filling the intake tract with fuel. Here is what I do know. ECM's get mis-diagnosed at an astonishingly high rate. Before one gets condemned more data is needed.
@@ShainAndrews Can you cite a specific vehicle that would cut out all the injectors because the fuel pressure is low? I've never seen a strategy like that. All the other possibilities you mention would cause other noticeable drivability issues that were not present. The symptom on this car is a sudden and abrupt stall due to all the injectors cutting out. The scope clearly showed this. All the injectors suddenly stop firing with no interruption in the cam/crank signals. That's either a loss of power feed to all the injectors or a ecm fault of some sort. Running pressure tests would be a waste of time. Bernie eliminated things that could cause ALL the injectors to cut off simultaneously. The only thing left that could cause that is the ecm...
@@ssrbob Everything Bob said is spot-on. In addition, just picture the running condition of an engine with low fuel pressure, rough idle, on the verge of stalling, but an abrupt stall on low fuel pressure? I think not.
WHATEVER Bernie charged is a BARGAIN for the customer since many other shops would have spent a boatload of the customer's before getting to ECM.
Only thing missing is proof that it was fixed.
Still there are many possibilities that were not eleminated, fuel delivery issues control/circuitry , livedata STFT LTFT, ECT, if the pcm is the cause due to temperature related issue, than i would duplicate that using spray can to cool it or heat gun! Geart scope though
Those possibilities you mentioned were eliminated because they cannot cause the ecm to stop firing all the injectors.
Simple solution: Just buy a TDI
What is a TDI? The ecm is bad that need to replace.
why not look at fuel pressure
The first test proved that the injectors were being shut off. This has nothing to do with a loss of fuel pressure.
If we were concerned about the possibility of the PCM shutting off the injectors because it saw a loss of pressure, then we could break it down into two cases based on whether or not the car has a fuel pressure sensor.
Case 1: No sensor. Then the computer has no idea that there is a lack of fuel pressure and we would see the crank slowing down BEFORE we lost injector pulse. On this car we saw the opposite. Injectors shut off before there was any slowdown of the crank.
Case 2: It has a sensor. Then there would be codes related to fuel pressure and this car didn't have any.
tech nerd .didn't help me none
Bernie is way too advance for most advanced technicians
We need a 30 channel scope