RoiLine 884 Cubic Inch V8 Digging Into the Engine
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- In this video we dig a bit further into the engine to see if there has been any collateral damage caused by the governor failure.
Other than some scratches in the bearings I think the engine faired out alright.
I owned a 1957 Walter Motors truck all wheel drive truck with the Waukesha Roiline 884 in it. When I purchased the truck at auction, the engine had just undergone a LeRoi dealer complete overhaul. It had less than 5 hours on the clock.
The truck was auctioned off after getting it back from overhaul, when a new employee tried pushing snow with it in 5th gear. The shift pattern was reversed, with 5th gear being on the left side of the pattern instead of 2nd gear.
The two giant stacks through the hood and the mufflers mounted to the cab roof made for a noisy drive.
i have a very good running 540 cu in version of this engine w/a 480 V 50KW generator. We have it on a twin axle trailer for engine shows. Set up for either Natural or pump gas,I run it on 100 % pump gas,I have roughly dated it to between 1954-57, just from the starter & 12V generator,& voltage regulator. We have a Starter and alternator shop here in Myrtle Beach, SC.
This engine never fails to bring a smile on faces when it fires up !!!. It has the baddest, nasty, raspy notes coming from those 2 ft long 2-inch twin pipes. As an Army Medic in Cu Chi, Vietnam I ran generators and I immediately fell in love with this old gal in Ohio and bought her direct off E-bay. Her last job was back up power for a small hospital,
Her governor works flawlessly, Her Name is 'Miss Le Roi" (which is a misnomer,)because Le Roi means "The King" in French, grins.
These are not easy engines to find information or parts for......I've managed to score a Truck motors manual w/internal specs . The Army used the 844 cu version in 10 wheeler M123 & M125 trucks that towed the big Guns of the 1950s.I have seen pictures of the 884 driving a backup 100,000 Watt generator set for CBS in a western state....also an 884 driving a back-up hydraulic pump for emergency on a ski lift. It is a very easy quick starting engine and extremely torque is their big feature. Miss Le Roi will idle down to a very lazy 250 RPM,w/full 40 lbs oil pressure but will bark w/authority to operating speed when you open that tall ,Ensign -2 barrel Carberator.Glen @ 843-455-8062 mackiebrat@gmail.com
Thanks for posting, my Dad had one just like that, was used on the farm, till the Rural Electric Coop. got around to line power, it was the kept as a backup, without fail on the coldest windy day we would loose power, but it never failed us.
If you wrap a ziplock bag around the magnet it makes cleaning it off super easy.
I know damn well that I'm going to forget this trick and I'm real mad about that.
If you forget this trick you can use a brush to remove the metal from the magnet secret is to brush it off fast. Use this trick for welding magnets etc
Soft, stainless, low rpm wire wheel on either a bench grinder or drill works superbly
Thanks for a great video, sir. I am watching with interest as you bring this generator back to life. I have never seen an 884 Cu in engine before (outside of a drag strip) ... and certainly not attached to a generator, so this is a real treat. You made resurrecting that huge Caterpillar generator look easy!! It looks like you're gonna do the same with this one. I'm looking forward to the next video on this.
It's so good to see someone working on an engine with hand tools, not a load of wheezing and whining air and electric stuff. I really enjoyed this. All the best. A.
I am a jet engine mechanic really enjoy watching your video. Thanks!
Keep at it Professor Mike.
Very nice work Sir.
Satisfaction of a job well done is priceless.
Our old trucks used to run on propane, the F-350 I drove had a 460 and if I remember right they ordered it with sodium exhaust valves to keep them from receding up in the head due to heat. We used to change the oil every 10K miles and the oil always looked like we had just put it in... Very unusual to have black oil with a Nat/LPG gas engine for sure!!! We ran those trucks for at least 500K miles and the only maint. we'd due to them was a valve job @ 250K... Pretty impressive, much better service than we had out of diesels, always thought diesels would last longer than LP engines, but they proved me wrong ;-)
John Deere two cylinder propane farm tractors were the same way put new oil in every spring work the dog out of it all year next spring drain the oil and it would be clean as though it was put in yesterday.
I suspect this engine did not need to work hard enough as a genset maybe not much carbon build up in the top end but the oil took a beating.
Probably because they were only changing like half the oil anytime they changed it and they weren't using the lower plug, so all the heavier stuff settled at the bottom of the pan and never settled out, and with the spotty maintenance history and only changing half of the oil at a time the oil probably turned super acidic, especially with how bad the oil they had 50-60 years ago, that stuff wasn't any where near as well refined as modern oil and the additive packages weren't nearly as robust.
@@frankdeegan8974 Did you ever pull the head and see if the exhaust valve receded up in the head??? We had an old late 70's era chevy truck with a 350, we pulled the heads, (@420K miles) and the exhaust valves had sucked 1/8" + up into the head... Had never seen anything like that b4. Guess maybe it had been running too lean causing very hot exhaust... But I'm not 100% sure, just a guess ;-)
@@brandonupchurch7628 I bet you're right, had forgotten about that mid drain plug, maybe they had that plug so they could change the oil while running??? Even so, never seen an LP/Nat gas engine with that dirty of oil b4... As I said, we changed our oil at 10K and that truck ran all day long everyday. We had a crane on the truck so it had to be running for the crane to work. We also installed a/c (with our own money I might add) so that truck ran all day every day in the summer ;-)
What a beautiful machine! Pretty incredible that it's looking and working so well after more than 50 years.
Nothing modern will be half as good as that beautiful thing
Sir, l have to say that l do enjoy your running commentary, natural, free-flowing and informative. Just like watching a mate doing all the work while l supervise from a comfortable distance. Improved lighting inside the crankcase gets you another feather in your cap. Cheers.
Making progress, very interesting. Thanks for sharing with us. Looking forward to seeing it to completion. I can't believe how dirty the oil was, probably never changed.
Wow! I didn't think you were going to tear it down to that degree! Thank You for doing that! A lot of work.
Can't wait to hear that classic gen set up & running young man thanks for your efforts in getting the machine back up and running 😎😎
Those "drain holes" up on the side of the pan are likely ports to install oil heating elements for cold weather starting. Seen many on various gensets.
yeah, makes sense, someone probably thought it was a drain and added the pipe, not knowing what they were doing
Or could be an unused turbo oil return when fitted.
@@laser-sj it can probably be used for that, but i don't think that was the original intentions because it was used as a genset
@@laser-sj Mmm, yes but they would be below the normal oil level.
I think such a return would be above that, no?
Cheers.
I think you are right Gary. It would be ludicrous putting a drain hole that high up on the pan.
Pretty sure that whole you drained it from is for putting in an engine oil heater to ease starting in cold weather and lengthen the engine life
That used to be quite common on the older standby stuff
robert ellison I was thinking maybe max oil level. Some of these probably ran on gasoline and maybe oil would get contaminated by sticking float? Just guessing.
@@paulmartin8212 Wouldn't be max level, it would only hold about 2 gal as he said in the video. It is most likely a heater, or as I thought possibly a drain so you could get most the oil out the side there and be able to fit a smaller drain pan between the frame rails and get the rest without overfilling the pan....
Maybe a low oil cutoff sensor.
Nice to see a Barber-Coleman component from my town of Rockford IL. Famous old company around here. Along with Woodward Governor too. Love your videos.
Glad you went with the conversion.
I really want to witness the 884 ci roar back to life.
Our fire department purchased 55 FWD cab over 4 wheel drive 40,000 GVW fire engines using this Roline V-8. Not a high revving engine but it had plenty of torque. They did their job for the expected 12 years too. Dual ignition also.
Holy Crap Mikey! That engine literally makes 3 of my little 292 c.i. in line 6 that's in my van lol. What a beast of an engine! Looking forward to hearing it come to life. Cheers my Friend! Zippy~
Audio quality is fantastic!
Very similar to a old LeRoi v8, almost exactly. Can’t wait for the follow up.
That was pretty cool. A lot can be gathered from casual observation of exploratory surgery.
Who wouldn't want a electronic governor? It'll make the engine run more smoothly & more fuel efficient.
Addendum: You might want to take a look at the oil pump. Those metallic bits & particles could've done some damage to it if not worn it out. I'd imagine the particulates acted as an abrasive material within the oil.
Ya, The poor old pump takes the shit in first! LOL!
The only ones I would think that wouldn't want an electric governor would be ones that would want it to stay original. But if that's a major fail point, an upgrade would be better.
yeah, with the sludge in the bottom and a swinging pickup, the oil pump likely worn bad or the relief valve stuck open, since it's likely been sucking muck, possibly pulling against plugged pickup screen. it would definitely show oil starvation issues up there first.
I'm guessing the oil line also feeds the distributor base/gear, but that's for him to determine. (he noted that in the video, missed it at first) :)
think I'd gut the original governor housing and block the oil port inside or remove the gear and lock it so port is covered and reinstall for looks, minus carb. linkage and vac port.
yeah. There has to be some of that stuff in the oil pump. You might as well remove it, and check it.
@@johnbrowne3518 yep, anything destructs and spits pieces/shaving - oil pump has been spanked, because filter is post oil pump and oi filters bypas under high pressure, so whole engine = spanked..
oh there was a time they didn't bypass and would collapse to no oil flow....
shyters(aka lawyers) fixed that up.. now you just clog the filter and and blow up your engine as the filter gets bypassed..
eye for an eye, tooth for an tooth, ETC... yep, exactly what occurs in life and it will never end until humanity can be 100% honest, which is NEVER.......
I said too much, such is life, try to be as honest as possible and admit to mistakes, you break it, take responsibility. but do not take responsibility for other mistakes.... ;)
Mike has worked his way into repairing even large diesels!
I must be very slow on the uptake because it took me all three videos to figure out that both the intake and exhaust manifolds are in the valley of the Vee. No cross flow here!
Yeah, this has morphed into a large project. Every place you opened up showed that it had to be cleaned, so it was necessary to go there. I assume it won't be hard to source new bearings for the crank and rods, right?
The next place to look into are the heads and valves. I'm hoping that you don't find problems there.
Oh yeah, will replacement oil filters be a problem to source?
Hang on mate. Let me just run and get a cold beer before you tear into this engine. Then we can start! :D
While your there mate!
Bing me one lol
Yeah, grab a stubby for me too. My round next time.
Already on a third, whats one more. Cheers.
I brought pizza. Let's do this.
A joy to watch you diagnose the gen set, keep up the great videos.
I worked for an equipment rental company in the 1970’s & we had a fleet of ACCO 1810A cab over trucks ( unique to Australia International Harvester built @ the Melbourne plant) with the V392 & V345 petrol V8’s all running on LP gas (liquid petroleum) which was half the price of petrol & was a very popular fuel for decades here, only now with the advent of common rail Diesel engines the popularity is in decline but l remember when our workshop would do an engine rebuild on the inter’s l could not believe how clean the internals were after 100’s of 1000’s of miles & how much longer between oil changes we did because of cleaner combustion with less byproduct mixing with the oil.
Wait, I thought the channel was called "SmallEngineMechanic"...this is not "small", it's a monster!
Fun to see one of those engines again, had them in big prime movers' back in the 60s and in a runway fire truck. As I remember the fire truck did have redundant ignition systems. They were LeeRoys back then, not a smappy acceleration but lots of torque and an impressive exhaust tone, never had much trouble with them, replaced them with 904 series Cummins in the late 70s..
Thanks for checking it out!
I will be on pins and needles waiting for the next installment. I hope you can source those gaskets. That is a gorgeous engine. Great job, young man! Love your productions. Keep up the good work. I was 3 when this was made.
An awful lot going on for that small oil line to keep everything oiled. Maybe the governor was starved while the distributor was getting most of the oil? Glad you took the time to investigate.
Big project yea....BUT a GREAT PROJECT! Thanks soo much for allowing us to follow along! I have to agree with "Rudofaux" about the oil pump and pick-up.
I've got one of these engines in my barn, it currently has a water pump attached to it, and the hour meter reads only 18hrs of use. It was the auxiliary pump for a sprinkler system in a 6 story building. We are going to convert it to an irrigation pump.
You sure like the challenge of a big project with lots of unknowns! I am surprised how nice the internals of your engine are despite all of the metal ingestion. I look forward to seeing you flush the oil galleries out, and reassemble everything. The Waukesha Engine Historical Society might have literature and a parts breakdown on your Roiline, it would not hurt to ask. I have requested and donated quite a few manuals from them over the years. Those manifold gaskets might be a challenge to find, Olsen gasket would probably be my first recommendation for having replacements made. Keep up the good work, I really enjoyed seeing the guts of this behemoth!
That engine was built to last. I think you caught it in time. The filters did their job and tell a story. If the commenters that didn't like the idea of an electronic governor were concerned about originality, I can understand that. On the other hand, this is worth more as a reliably functioning generator. If you wanted to put her in a machine museum, the original equipment would be a must. That would be costly. Myself? I want to see this run three washing machines, a Bridgeport, twelve light bulbs, a microwave, 5 electric heaters and (am I running out of wattage?) and five Tesla's recharging, all at the same time.
Great work. Thank You for sharing this. Looking forward to next episode.
Jim
I love your in depth commentary of your vids young man. I don't know diddly about generators but do know motors. Happy to see the metal bits you've found aren't from the motor itself (so far at least) Waiting on the next update! ( I just subscribed too :-) )
(
Everything supersized and made of cast, cast iron and more cast iron! An overhead crane would be a highly useful thing to have when working on one of these monsters!
Very interesting project. I enjoy these videos.
Boy, whoever designed that oil drain set-up had holes in their head! Two more gallons of oil and a ton of sludge! And Mike, how about a portable hoist for the heavier parts like the intake. Save your back mate.
Really enjoy your channel. Can't believe how fast 30 goes when you are watching something you really enjoy.
Thanks again.
*There is a drain plug in the BOTTOM of the pan* 14:00
I'd like to see that monster run
That thing is so cool. I think I'm going to change the oil in my generator this week after seeing the rod bearings.
Very interesting Mike, looking forward to the next installment!
Almost 100 thousand views on an old generator, I would say people are as interested as you and me. Pretty cool man.
Evening Mike. I'm no mechanic but interested in all things mechanical. You really do make things interesting to watch. Cheers Stevie 😎🇬🇧
That engine looks indestructible - Made in the USA awesomeness
Thorough inspection. Your a impressive Gen tech. It will be interesting to see this progress
Brother, you refine your editing skills and you'll blow up. Nice video and VERY cool project, thanks for sharing.
Good call on the Slug to block the governor oil line passage. Think id cut a o-ring groove in the top also so it does not rub into the bottom of the valley pan.
WOW, mighty fine engine there to take all that and still look so good. Yep I think a good cleaning, some new bearing and the mods you have in mind will put this beauty back into service. Thanks for sharing it with us Mikey. I know you'll find those gaskets and anything else you need for it. Looking fwd to seeing the whole thing up and running again. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
So you're working on an 884 CI V8 and your UA-cam name is SmallEngineMechanic. I like it. Very fitting.
Thanks for this Mike,..as always really interesting stuff to watch ,...and learn!
I was glad to see that accessory drive shaft actually had separate gears for the distributor(s) and the governor drive. Like you mentioned, the distributor gears look fine, so the o-ringed plug theory should work to block off the governor shaft hole and keep the oil in. The bearings are a mystery. On a big slow-turning engine like that, you could probably get away with reusing them if the clearances are still within spec. Just wash everything down good to get all the metal debris out and maybe drop the oil pickup and see what's hiding in there.😉 If you can source the intake/exhaust gaskets, and filters, you should be good to go. Everything else could be done with black RTV. Looking forward to more on this beast.😁
I won't care if I had to have the bearings specially made if your that far into it replace the bearings and oil pump not doing so is just dumb
I'd love to see that giant old engine in an old pickup truck. Complete with the stacks coming out of the hood and painted Onan metalic green!
found you the other day been enjoying your videos :)
keep up the good work !
I fully agree. An object can either be art or functional, and for an item to be functional, it cannot be art, this is a generator, not a piece of art, so upgrades, done in a respectful manner, that is to say, no butchering, should always be done so that the function nature of the machine can be maintained.
talk to your buddy RoadKing and find out how he dubs voice overs during editing. He did it just last week. Thanks for taking us with on the inspection.
The 884 was use by many in the 1960's to power irrigation pumps. This area is from Elkhart KS to Sublette KS down into the Texas Panhandle. It was known to use considerable oil. Many used the 800HD Moline and twin 413 Chrysler twin GMC 478 or 702 V12 GMC The Waukesha 145gz was a 817 surplus engine also used to pump wells.
Waukesha which is who purchased roiline still uses that style of filter on their older engines today which I’ve always heard called a Winslow filter and yes it is wood fiber. Almost like what an evaporative cooler pad is made of. They were a decent filter in their day but for today’s standards not so good. We have been converting ours over to spin on filters
The Drain Plug is in the Bottom of the pan 14:00! Looks like the governor gear was not fully seated to wear that mating gear on one end. Wash it down and out with Diesel and depending on owner and close examination of crank, re-bearing rods and mains.
Whoa! Thats a big engine! Almost same dimensions and color as an 8v71 Detroit
Just needs a little TLC , think I'll be humming right along again! Good video!
I have successfully used industrial process controllers, (one of my own design) to govern both gas and diesel engines. I see you have a purpose built unit. That's very nice and assures success. They weren't available to me.
How the heck did weird generator guy get into my home page? 884 cubic inches of non-Green power! You will be the hero when the SHTF & the lights go out.
That is a big beautiful engine, they don't build them like that anymore. All the gear driven stuff on the front. That engine could run for another 60 years and not wear out. Long as the crankshaft still looks nice and polished, put a new set of bearings in it give her a good cleaning maybe an oil flush, maybe put the bearings you have back in at first to do the oil flush and then do the bearing swap. I'd love to hear that thing start up.
You can't find that intake and exhaust gasket, there is some liquid make a gasket stuff that can tolerate the heat of exhaust. I'm sorry I don't remember what the name of it is.
Great video Mike thanks for sharing 👍🇦🇺👀
That engine needs a good flush with diesel from the lifter valley and down and one or 2 oil changes in short succession to flush out any leftover crap. Afterwards it will either blow up or keep chugging.
If I were to keep it I would replace ALL Main and Rod Bearings to be on the "safer" side(not that it would totally guarantee it won't blow up or seize up later under load as some damage has already been done). Check the oil pump pick up screen for any metal shavings, oil sludge blockage and else.
Good idea with the o-ringed aluminium slug.
The intake/exhaust gaskets are simple enough to make it at home but those fire rings on the exhaust ports are definitively a deal breaker for the DIYers.
Looking forward to Part III. 😊👍🏻
it'd be pretty interesting to think about using that size engine in a cool hot rod. 884 CI is a lot of displacement !
These engines are designed for low speeds and has low specific output. I'm not sure it will work too well in a car.
NG engines like this one need the cubes because of the low BTU energy content of the gas. It is very questionable as to its ability to operate with gasoline products, not to mention that is designed for low and continuous RPM applications.
Maybe put a thick washer on top and bottom of the governor oil hole with a bolt and aircraft nut thru it to seal the oil hole. Thanks for the video.
The higher drain plug may have been put there for a mid service oil change, when the oil could be mostly drained while running. Then refilled without shut down
I wonder if that tiny oil line to the governor is also clogged? Seems like that whole assembly was a weak spot lubrication wise.
Thanks for all your videos. You may want to invest in a cordless ratchet. Snap-On makes a real good one.
I did some Genset engine work and thank God this is in your drive way instead of a 16th floor of a building. What about using freeze plugs to block the gov housing?
Freeze plugs with 30 to 45PSI pushing against them, no way!
Allready studs there,so not necessary.
@Ben T. Could be a company leasing just a floor or few from a tower. Gotta have their datacenter somewhere.
@Ben T. I do not know why but I remember about 1980/81 I was called out on a job on a genset that was on the top floor of an 11 story building. User had not been doing startups properly engine only had a five gallon day tank.User was too busy lugging five gallon fuel cans up the stairs to see why genset would no supply power to electric fuel pumps.Problem was solved when they opened the switch gear box,scraped all the corrsions off.That let the switch gear engage properly.We left the user and his supervisor were standing toe to toe,Supervisor glaring but waited for everyone else to leave before discussing the root cause of the problem with the guy who was expected to do the P.M.checks.That was the poor saps only job.
@@johndonahue1935 not 45 psi in crankcase
Since it has an option for a second distributor, that would be an ideal place for a CDI distributor that will be all set up for a hall-effect sensor that can send a signal to the electronic governor. Give you a signal for a tachometer too. Ford Motor Company used to produce 1,100 cubic inch engines for tanks, I'd like to get one of those :-)
love the old school stuff , lots of metal dust but it's more life in it with some tlc :)
Hey Mike, first time seeing your videos. Great stuff guy. Subscribed!
Forgot to say that these genset were the best. Shame some jack ass did not take care of the simple things. These people should be made to walk in shoes that are filled with sand. Then they would understand the meaning of oil changes. Nice job Mike, keep on fixing the machine up. Love the videos too. VF
Many a man has been bitten in the ass by Ye Olde Hidden Dowel Pin. Nice tear down. Enjoyed it a bunch!
Channel "small engine mechanic"
Project "884 cu in petrol engine"
Tomorrow "General Electric 15,330 cu in V-16 diesel electric locomotive"
I love this guy ! ! !
Eiserntors Phantom of the Opera
... 25 years ago I was hired at my shop because I knew a few things about diesel engines after working on Nissan in-line 4 and 6 motors plus a few 3208 Cats. They sent me to my first diesel job with a 12 ft ladder and I asked what that was for. Oh, that's to check the radiator! Turns out this was an 800 Kw unit with a 1200 HP Cummins V-12.
What a PERFECT engine to Turbo... Intake and exhaust in the "V" it would be a monster!
Only if he did a quad turbo... 2 massive cylinders per turbo
@@freedom4all219 Twins would do it... Not like its a 20V149
That's a beast. You need a engine hoist just for the intake manifold.
once again, thanks for the great content.
I hope you rinse that valley out really good and clean up all those metallic bits before putting back together. Can you get new rod bearings for the machine? Hope so. Cleaning it out well may help the engine last a lot longer. Should be a great runner and generator when finished. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Sometimes it's cool to have things "all original style".... but if it makes it work better, any Non-Destructive repair is OK in my book. I fix guitar amps, and when I have to use a different part than originally was there, I leave things in a state where it's EASY to put it back original style if the unavailable part somehow shows up.
Amazingly clean looking inside given the age of the unit. I'm surprised the gears show so very little wear.
Would the two distributor holes be for opposite engine rotations (as might be found in a marine application)? Also, your aluminum slug w/O-rings is a good plan, how about leaving a shoulder on the top of that slug and turning a snap-ring groove in the bottom to retain it? Alternatively, that oiling hole for the governor would've likely been drilled from the open end that's facing up during manufacturing, you could drill and tap it to an NPT pipe-plug size, or a set-screw that you could Loc-tite in or stake in with a punch (or drill a pocket to stake a ball bearing into)...
Are you sure you can still call yourself SmallEngineMechanic?? That is stretching it with this mammoth beast. Keep up the good work
Really like your style, thanks for the info.
Some critical service engines ran a distributor for starting then a magneto for running as the 6volt charging and batteries were not always reliable during long running such as a pumper at a fire.
If it hasn't been said already. Kraft power in New Jersey may be able to supply parts for that. They had Hercules/White parts and gaskets in stock.
If this engine was also designed for marine duty the high oil drain would have been used to do a "running oil change" so the engine never had to be shut down. Dual oil filters is also a good indication this is the case - it should be possible to shut one of them off at a time and change them while the engine is still running.
If you go into this engine farther be aware that there is an o-ring between the lower block extension and the block. I have worked on a lot of 884s and I have seen a lot of the o-ring left out. You will have low to no oil pressure if it is missing. These are great engines but are prone to head cracking and the valve guides wear more that some other engines.
Actually electronic governors were first used on gas turbines back in the early '60s.
Do you follow AGENT JAYZ? with his beautiful old turbines like the orenda or J79's maybe LM2500
@@leeharris3061 yes
Lots of crap in there from the metal wear , But i think it can be saved , "IF" you can find parts ... That's a big word now days .. ENJOYED Mike !!
ShawnMrFixitlee
... Back in the 80s I was able to source enough parts to overhaul an engine on a 1928 GMC engine, but had to fabricate a few things myself. These days we have the internet to help us find things.... including older people who know how to do shit!
Best form of invoice this.
Sure hope the journals meet specs for wear and you can get by with just new bearings. There is a reason the bearing material was designed to be softer than the crank. This has turned into a small can of worms but I am confident Magic Mike will get it restored with minimal expense and have a dynamite gen set on the market.
Mike, you should change the name of your channel to ALLENGINEMECHANIC. Just drop the first 2 letters.