Thanks so much for these videos!!!! Eternal torment has bothered me for a long time because I knew it couldn't be true. The thing that also bothers me is most "christians" don't seem to be bothered by the teaching that someone's loved one's (our own maybe) will be tortured forever. I have to say, any "christian" who really believes God will torture the souls of anyone forever.....doesn't know God! Here's the thing for me. We know the doctrine of "eternal torment" is a heresy. We know that it cannot be true. But for most "christians" it doesn't seem to bother them. For instance, even if it was true, they don't seem to be bothered by it! Which is something I'll never understand. Thanks for your videos as I always share them!
I agree and as a new christian at 16 many years ago this troubled me so much that I ended up leaving the faith. I imagine this heresy is doing great damage.
I used to be very bothered by this doctrine, to the point where I couldnt go outside or look at the news without being terrified for the people I saw. But I ended up asking God to comfort me because I was being tormented by that heresy and the Lord ended up comforting me with the truth and because of that Im even more grateful towards Him 🙌♥️✝️
Because We All Fall Short Miss The Mark & Are Asleep Of - Love Of GOD. I'm guilty of the same thing. I can Not Love like GOD esp when certain things happen to me by certain people. Love is a Growth Matter, not a instant installment. As now I'm older then I can see my mistakes, but without my mistakes seeing the Light of GOD I'm blinded by having things my way. It's like Peter taking his eyes off of GOD, but he's the only one who walked out on the water. Even Paul who was originally a killer of Saints. What we have to do is - Stay In Prayer 🙏 Strong 💪 Healthy Safe Encouraged With A Smile 😁 In Jesus Christ Precious 💞 Strong 💪 Holy 💝 Name
I did believe that doctrine and I did know God. So to say you don't know God if you believe that is not true. Stop trying to demonize other Christians as soon as you disagree with them. They were taught wrong is all. They trust the Bible over their own understanding and just assume God makes sense of it even though they can't. They believe it by faith and don't accuse God despite really struggling with the concept and just trying not to think about it too much. It is that simple.
@@artbyrobot1I agree with this. I also believed this for many years because I thought it was what the bible taught. I knew the Father and walked as best as I could with Christ. Growing in Christ is a process that which to stretch beyond this life. Love is patient and kind and is to be extended to all irrespective of the doctrinal position held. Having said that this channel is such a gift and shows us the extent of the Good News we have to share.
I was stuck in Calvinism, and the thought of eternal torment scared me so bad that I had two mental breakdowns and it triggered multiple autoimmune diseases that I will have to live with now. I’m so glad I am free now.
This really cleans up all the inconsistencies about biblical restoration scriptures. The good news is truly good news. Not just for some, but for us all. Love your enemies and forgive.
@@cypher_funk How do you know that it isn't the light which is the illusion and darkness that is the reality? How do you know it's not just one big cruel joke?
Wonderful presentation, brother! I came to see the truth of universal reconciliation in 2010 after having believed and taught eternal torment my entire Christian life. I am 64 and now look back and am bewildered at how I could have believed the lie of Christendom for so long! We need not be afraid of a thorough study of the original Greek words from which our English bibles were "translated". Words like 'forever', 'eternal', 'hell', 'damnation', 'destroy', 'destruction', etc. are all incorrect renderings of the Greek. A glance at any concordance will quickly dispel many of these badly translated words! A word on the Greek 'basanos'; the process of testing the genuineness of a precious metal using a basalt "touchstone". God is exposing the individual's worth through His "examination", and He would only do this for someone that is of great worth and value to Him! He will purify them by this means, and they will love Him for it perpetually!
we have been going through this with Rodney Beaulieu for the last year and you have added to it in giving your sources plus confirmation ie not taking one mans word for it and studying it out for oneself, thankyou
Básanos as "interrogation", in terms of God's mercy and plan of reconciliation, leads to the questioning that a good therapist does with a recalcitrant client. Nothing is as painful emotionally and spiritually as coming to the realization that one's motives and works have been in pain, and have been totally useless. Who else but the Divine Therapist to lead the most hardened criminal through such a process where the guilty eventually recognizes his/her evil and comes to the grace of Christ.
Just went on your page to send someone randomly a video have done that in a year or so and I see you posted. I thought some higher ups got to you or something really glad your posting. Helped set me on a better path than God
Notice the accent mark above the first alpha? That means it's supposed to be accented. Also, in modern Greek, beta is pronounced as a 'V'. So βάσανος is pronounced VAHS-ah-nos. Great video, by the way.
Most people seem to avoid any truths in their life that cause pain, after a lifetime of running from painful truths is it any wonder that pain will be the result when they can’t run anymore but MUST finally face the truth.
Hi Michael, thanks so much for these videos! In the last quote of this video by Frederick Ferrar, he said that there are at least ten or twelve other ways the sacred writers could have expressed endless punishment had they wanted to be unambiguous about them; ways that they used in other parts of the Bible to express endlessness but never in relation to punishment. Can you (or anyone) please list these 10-12 other ways that Ferrar is referring to? I’d be most grateful, thank you!
Tony Evans Ran Into The Same Problem. After graduation, went back to Dallas Seminary to debate this with his teacher, & proved his point that it's not Torment Forever. After that they ask him to be one of the teachers & be on the board. Success was in accomplishments towards the Truth. Stay In Prayer...
I see bible verses saying "IF bla bla bla... ... I shall raise him up on the last day". Why is it saying "if" if everyone gets raised up in the very end anyway? I thought everyone gets raised up on the last day since punishment in hell is not forever.
John 6: 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Matthew 11: 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
Are you referring to John 6:39-40? “Now this is the will of Him Who sends Me, that all which He has given to Me, of it I should be losing nothing, but I shall be raising it in the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who is beholding the Son and believing in Him may have life eonian, and I shall be raising him in the last day." Jesus is referring to those who have been chosen to receive eonian life here, who are the “elect” who have been chosen from before the disruption of the world. Not all will experience life for the eons. Jesus never promised “eternal” life when He was on earth, He was referring to life in the next eon, the Millenial kingdom. That is what the accurate translation of the Greek “aion” is referring to, NOT eternal life. However ALL WILL eventually be reconciled and raised to immortality at the consummation when God becomes all in all and death is abolished. John 13:3 says, “Jesus, being aware that the Father has given ALL into His hands, and that He came out from God and is going away to God”. So ALL HAS been given to Jesus and He will lose none of what He has been given by His Father. How do we know this? Because Philippians 3:21 says, “Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject ALL to Himself.” Here is something for you to consider about Christ’s nature and power: "Moreover, Scripture is clear that, when God roused his Son from among the dead, he made him Lord of all and gave him all authority in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18; Acts 2:36; 10:36; Rom 14:8-9; Phil 2:9-11). And with this unlimited, universal authority, Christ has the power to "subject all to himself" (Phil. 3:21). No prior "willingness" on the part of those yet to be subjected to him is required in order for Christ to bring about their subjection. As was so clearly manifested in the dramatic calling of the apostle Paul (Acts 9:1-22), Christ can exercise his authority to bring about the salvation of any of the sinners he came into the world to save without the sinner doing or believing anything beforehand to "qualify" for salvation. It is completely within Christ's power to eradicate unbelief from the heart of even the most stubborn of sinners, and to produce within them the unfeigned love and heartfelt obedience by which God is glorified. Concerning this fact, A.E. Knoch wrote the following: "The apostle Paul's case is of surpassing significance in its bearing on the salvation of unbelievers. He was the foremost of sinners, and it cannot be denied that, among men, there was no case quite as desperate as his. All question as to God's ability to save vanishes in the light of his call on the Damascus road. The miraculous means employed in his case surely would suffice for every one of God's enemies." (All in All, p. 93) On the road to Damascus, Paul was neither seeking out God, nor repentant, nor deep in prayer contemplating whether or not to "accept Jesus as his personal Savior." He was, instead, "still breathing out threatening and murder against the disciples of the Lord" and trying to hunt down more believers in order to have them led back to Jerusalem in chains (Acts 9:1-6). Though overflowing with religious zeal, he was deep in unbelief, and utterly oblivious to the fact that he was living in rebellion against the true Messiah and Lord of the universe. Yet when the appointed time came (Gal 1:13-16), Christ appeared to Paul and subjected him to himself in an instant with the glorious revelation of who he is. As a result of his remarkable encounter with the risen Christ, Paul was permanently changed, and his will fully yielded to Christ - and this took place without any resistance from Paul. Paul's words in 1 Tim. 1:14 "Yet the grace of our Lord overwhelms, with faith and love in Christ Jesus") even suggest that there was nothing Paul could've done to prevent the faith and love that resulted from his life-changing encounter with Christ. Moreover, despite the commonly-held Christian belief that Christ can't save those who die in unbelief (and who are devoid of love for God), the fact is that it's no more difficult for Christ to resurrect and save a dead unbeliever than it is for him to save a living unbeliever. He can accomplish the former just as easily as he can accomplish the latter. Just as death cannot prevent Christ from resurrecting a person who lived and died in a state of unbelief, so it cannot prevent Christ from transforming a person into a loving and faithful servant of God."
So I can just have sex with prostitutes, murder them, bear false witness and set someone else up for my murderous spree, and reject Christ, yet I'll still be in heaven? GTFOOH
I have come to the point in which if universal restoration (the eventual saving of everyone through corrective punishment for those that require it) isn’t true then I don’t want to know God or Jesus. For then the Lord and his only begotten son have less love for humanity than some sinners do here on earth and I don’t believe that for one minute.
When you follow the Rich man Lazarus story with the promise in lamentations 3, I assume you are believing that the story Jesus taught is a parable and not an actual occurrence that happened to someone? My question to all of this is, interrogated for what purpose? There is no scriptural foundation for conversion or salvation or even repentance of anyone after death. The rich man, at least according to the telling of the story by Jesus was not getting out of there.
Not by Abraham was the rich man getting out of there ;-) Of course its a parable. Its one of many given in the three chapters of Luke (14-16) The kingdom was being taken from the Jews (the rich man) and being given to the Gentiles (Lazarus).
Well for some, yes, they do conveniently dismiss it as mere parable. I'm a univeralist that does NOT do so. It describes upper and lower hades/sheol/hell/the realm of the dead/under the earth/the pit. This is a place of waiting for the spirits of the dead. The just dead are on the side of upper hades/abraham's bosom/paradise and the unjust dead are on the lower hades part. The just dead's resurrection will be the first resurrection/rapture event during the 7 year period. The unjust dead's resurrection will be the second resurrection where they will be judged at the Great White Throne of judgement event. While in this realm of the dead, they have no physical body because they have not yet been resurrected. The just dead are in pleasant fellowship and well encouraged. They enjoy this water of God's Word. The unjust dead are in agony of regret and isolation and long for water/encouragement/relief but there is none. Now during the 2nd resurrection, it says death and hell give up their dead. It is at this time people DO get OUT of this hell/hades/sheol waiting place. So the notion you never get out is utterly proven wrong then and there. They get out and are judged and cast into the Lake of Fire - a new place of new suffering/testing than the former. It also says death and hell are themselves cast INTO the Lake of Fire, once more proving these are two entirely different places and you DO get out of that first place when you get resurrected in the 2nd resurrection. Now Jesus said you can't cross sides down therein hades. All this tells me is that you don't get to just enjoy paradise by walking over there will all of your negativity and comingling with the saints. You are stuck on your side of suffering and don't get to partake in the joyous side's enjoyment. You are 100% in time out and get no fun time there. You ask: interrogated for what purpose? - you then infer that the interrogation happens while in hell/hades/sheol. This is not the universalist position. As I said, hell/hades/sheol is the waiting place before you are resurrected to be judged at the Great White Throne judgement event and cast into the Lake of Fire. This video is teaching that the Lake of Fire torment is the testing/interrogation of those cast into it. This interrogation/testing is NOT being taught to apply while you are in hell/hades/sheol awaiting your judgement of the 2nd resurrection. While in the hades, you just wallow in regret and dread your coming resurrection unto judgement. You don't get finally interrogated until your books are opened and you are judged according to your works recorded in those books. That is when the real interrogation begins. So what is the purpose of the interrogation: to expose you, the lies you believe, the great evil you have done, the shame you should feel, the complete folly of any pride you may be holding onto in light of what a fool you have been in this life, etc. It says God is able to humble the proud and that is exactly what this interrogation is for. Only after God has utterly humbled and humiliated the proud in this Lake of Fire interrogation will they finally: bow and confess that Jesus is Lord, praise God, admit they are a sinner, come to Him ashamed and say to Him only in the Lord is deliverance and strength and only then are they made new and death loses its sting and death is swallowed up in victory - they put their faith in Christ. You say "The rich man, at least according to the telling of the story by Jesus was not getting out of there." --- that is not what it says. As I already proved, he does get out of there since he gets resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire which I already proved is not the same place as there. So everyone gets out we know for 100% certain. Also, the story really only states that he doesn't get to cross sides or get relief while in there and doesn't get to go warn his family on earth. There are rules as far as him staying on his side of the chasm. That's all. You say "There is no scriptural foundation for conversion or salvation or even repentance of anyone after death." --- this is not true. Jonah chapter 2 he relates that he died and goes to the realm of the dead, Sheol, and while in the pit, he cries out to God in repentance and God lifts his life out of the pit. Some translations say Jonah went to sheol, some say jonah went to the realm of the dead. Means the same thing. He died. While in the fish he died. It says the bars of the earth shut Jonah in forever. He was in hell. And he repented while in hell and God let him out of hell. Jesus said the only sign I will give this wicked generation is the sign of Jonah. Jesus, like Jonah, died for 3 days and was resurrected from the dead. Jonah died for 3 days and was resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. That is the sign of Jonah. The next example we have of repentance while in hell is when Jesus went down to hell/sheol/hades during the 3 days leading up to his resurrection and while there, he preached to the spirits of the dead who disobeyed long ago during the days of Noah. So these were dead people who included some of the most wicked men of all time whose every imagination was evil continually. He preached to the ancient dead, not the recently dead. 1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit --- the reason why Jesus preached to them was so that they might live according to God in the spirit. So Jesus was actually preaching the gospel to them with the intention of actually saving them in the afterlife which requires repentance and faith in Jesus to be saved. He was preaching to the demons as well (the ones who were put into chains to await judgement as mentioned by Peter) who were also ones that disobeyed in the days of Noah by laying with women and making the giants and giving them a chance to repent too. Presumably these people, being dead and suffering for 4-5k years in the realm of the dead, they were ripe to be given the good news and be saved. But for ones who died more recently, they still needed to be humbled for longer and stay in their regrets and guilt. It is unclear as to whether Jesus preaches to the dead again every 500-1000 years or so. Perhaps that was a one time event to set a bunch of captives free as a celebration of the victory Jesus just won on the cross. But in any case, Jesus did save some on that event in all likelihood and they were being given a second chance is without question.
@@artbyrobot1 In the middle of a dozen parables Jesus switches to not speaking in parable? Even though the witness of scripture declares how Jesus always spoke in parables when addressing the multitudes? Mk4:33And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it. 34But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
@@ba.anderson You say "In the middle of a dozen parables Jesus switches to not speaking in parable?" --- No, I did not claim that Jesus was not speaking in a parable as you slanderously suggest. You just made that up. I say it was a parable and nothing about it being a parable nullifies the precepts I related to you that I have pulled from it. You are inferring to me in your post here that Jesus, while describing the realm of the dead in a parable, was falsely describing that realm and the terms of the stay there and how that realm works and thereby deceiving us or just being irresponsible in giving so many details that are not true. I tell you that the details of the arrangement were true and make perfect sense and are prophetic and were intended to teach us and are confirmed elsewhere in many other non-parable scriptures. Yes, being a parable, the names of Lazarus, the rich man, and Abraham as being specific people that all interacted in specific ways in this place could have been chosen as part of the story as opposed to a actual historical event. However, just because it is a parable does not mean there is no realm of the dead as you seem to infer or that there is no distinction made in the experiences of those who are within the realm of the dead as the parable relates. That is absurd to think. The Bible talks about elsewhere the realm of the dead and people going there in Isaiah and Jonah and Psalms and Peter among others. So Jesus is not describing a place that is not elsewhere confirmed in scripture. Jesus literally goes into Hades to preach as his body lay in the cave and he tells the thief on the cross on that day he'd be together with him in paradise that very day - which coincides and confirms the existence of Abraham's bosom/paradise spoken of in that parable and yet also Peter tells us Jesus was there preaching to the unjust dead that disobeyed in the days of Noah - which also then confirms that one can preach to the dead who are across the chasm and there were both unjust dead present as well as just dead present and able to communicate to one another as is related by Jesus' parable. Jesus would have been on the side of the just dead and preaching across the divide to the side of the unjust dead as Abraham was able to do in the parable and hence Peter confirms the parable along with Isaiah and Jonah and Psalms among others with the veracity of the conditions of the realm of the dead that Jesus related in the parable. So then, just because it was a parable and those exact persons may not necessarily have had those exact conversations, the general layout and condition of the realm of the dead and the notion of the righteous and unrigtheous separated (sheep and goats) is all there in the rest of scripture that confirms this notion and not in parable form either. The idea that the unjust dead and there chained in darkness and regretting the decisions that brought them to this place is found often in other scriptures such as Isaiah and Peter and Jonah. It is all there and can be reconstructed from the rest of scripture without the parable Jesus told that serves to confirm other scripture. So the contents of the parable are accurate as it pertains to that realm and the details and general conditions of it and the souls of those experiencing it in general - their spiritual condition is all confirmed in scripture throughout other passages that are not parables. When he teaches the kingdom of heaven is like a sower sewing seeds, you can use the same fallacious argument you are using here: well just because the parable says seeds can be scorched by the hot sun doesn't mean seeds can actually be scorched in hot sun - that's just a parable - well no, you'd be wrong. Seeds actually can be scorched in hot sun, choked out by weeds, stopped from establishing roots by rocks in the soil and there actually is such a thing as good soil. These gardening precepts and very real conditions relating to the parable are not suddenly false precepts just because they are related in a parable. You cannot suggest that just because something is said in a parable that necessarily all the events, circumstances, details and facts surrounding the practical situations described in the parable are all necessarily false and misleading as it pertains to how things are in reality as you infer here. That is all just folly to suggest. The specific people and names may be altered, but we not only have every reason to believe that the conditions and general scenarios are accurate, but we can also strongly suspect that this exact thing did occur in a real life event. That there was actually a literal farmer father who did have a prodigal son that spoiled his inheritance that happened some time on the earth in history past or future that Jesus used in his very real knowledge of this very real occurrence and Jesus used this story based on a true story to relate a spiritual reality. Perhaps this happened to a neighbor of Jesus growing up and Jesus watched the son come home to his dad or heard about it and related that story in his famous parable because the Father taught Jesus a lesson about His own heart when Jesus learned about His neighbor and son reuniting in real life in this way. Perhaps Jesus actually did know of a merchant who sold all that he had to buy a pearl of great worth and the Father told Jesus a spiritual truth when Jesus learned about this merchant and so Jesus used this story of a real event to teach us about a spiritual truth pertaining to the kingdom of heaven. Perhaps Jesus actually did see people similarly turned away from a wedding banquet for not bringing the attire required by the host or what have you and the Father taught Him that such will also come to pass upon those who try to enter the kingdom of heaven without wearing their wedding garments. Perhaps Jesus really did know of a good Samaritan that actually did help a Jew in distress who had been robbed and further it is entirely possible that Jesus was the very Jew in question and this was a childhood experience of His and some pharisees did actually ignore him in his pleas for assistance and a good Samaritan really did carry him to an inn as a child and pay for his food and stay and treatment. I believe this did happen to Jesus even though he told it as a parable and did not mention it was Him who was the Jew and it was this experience that also led Jesus to say that if you visit the sick or those in prison or cloth someone in need that you do this for Him. That the Father taught Him this through His personal experience He relates to us in the parable of the good Samaritan. In every case we can be seeing real things in these parables but just name changed and perhaps some details altered for the sake of the story in ways that will aid the teaching of a story based on real events. So also with all the other parables. Could have literally been things Jesus witnesses and was taught by the Father as a spiritual truth while witnessing it and he goes on to relate this real event in a story while changing up the exact names and locations to conceal the true identities of the parties who were actually involved which is not significant to the lessons he was trying to teach. In fact, Paul did the same thing when he said "I knew a man who was caught up to the third heavens, whether in the body or out of the body I do not know. Paul related this as a story and did not explicitly state he was that man in the story because it was not the crucial thing, however, all theologians I have ever heard agree that Paul was the man in that story and this was his very real experience in that story. Although admittedly in this example it wasn't a parable but a historic revisiting explicitly - yet the dropping the name of the person involved idea is my point here. I argue that often times we relate stories as humans to one another changing up the names and details of things but relating real events with real details that actually happened to us or someone we know but we tweak it some in the story. In the case of Jesus' parables, I am confident that is just the same thing he was doing. All of these events were things he had seen and heard and been taught and he was just removing or tweaking names and some details but basing it on real things and every detail can give insight into real truths and will never be something that can throw us off track when we are searching for more insight such as what the realm of the dead is about and like and how does it operate. Jesus would not mislead us on that front as you suggest he might be doing and as I said, the details of that realm match other scriptures repeatedly confirming them.
I appreciate you adressing this very important concept of scripture. This teaching of eternal punishment, which the vast majority of Christian preachers of all kinds use in order to scare people into belief, is defamatory towards God, and does not make sense.
I agree that it is defamatory but how does it not make sense? If you reject God then God rejects you. So if accepting God means eternal life then rejecting God means eternal death. I would say that sounds pretty logical to me. The only problem with it is if God is all loving and just and all powerful then eternal torture just doesn't match those qualities.
@@mrsticky005 Basically I agree with your comment, and your final paragraph evidences why the belief of incorrigable sinners burning in hell forever is not consistent with the concept of God is love. I believe those that ultimately do not repent will eventfually die, cease to exist, hence it is called the second death.
@@mrsticky005 the eternal punishment is conditionally eternal - it lasts until they repent and see the light and come to Christ. The eternal life is conditionally applied as well - as long as we remain faithful. If someone rebels they don't still keep eternal life but are cut off.
@@mrsticky005 It would mean that man has more power to willfully turn a blind eye to the truth than God has the power to reveal the truth to man. It would mean man has more power to rebel and stand steadfastly in rebellion and pride than God has the power to crush their pride and humble them. It would mean that man has more resilience and power of will to stand in opposition to God than God has the power to break the man and wait out his opposition phase.
We may not need to believe in the salvation of all to be a Christian but we do in order to become a believer. 1 John 4:13-14 KJV(i) 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Brother are you making a leap to make this word a restoration of souls rather than an admission of their guilt and loss of eternal life resulting in weeping and gnashing of teeth? Every knee will bow and every tongue confess. The condemnation of those who don’t come freely but under duress.
The torment of the Bible, while not eternal, is still clearly described as torterous. The Bible in Revelation 14:11 uses the Greek word "Basanismos" to describe a "deep pain coming from a objective (physical)source" which is also the case in Rev 9:5. Some have concluded, that Basanismos referrs to the process of "using a touchstone" to test metal Overall; metal is tested BEFORE it is thrown into the furnace. And a furnace still burns because of the fire within.
God is the savior of ALL men. However what exactly is God saving ALL men from in the first place? According to Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins." Why does anyone need to be saved from sin in the first place? Traditionally the argument would be that if we sin then we are breaking God's law and the punishment is being cast into the lake of fire either for eternity or until we are utterly destroyed and so to saved from sin means being forgiven for your sins and not being punished by being cast into the lake of fire. However if ALL men INCLUDES those who are cast into the lake of fire and they are eventually reconciled to God then it cannot be the lake of fire that ALL men are saved from since most people but not all people will go to the Lake of Fire. It would have to be that sin itself is what ALL men are saved from and NOT the punishment for sin.
You say "It would have to be that sin itself is what ALL men are saved from and NOT the punishment for sin" --- that is a false dichotomy. If the wages of sin is death and sin when conceived gives birth to death and death is absence of life and true life is only found when in right standing with God who created you to worship Him and be one with Him, then you are always going to have punishment go hand in hand with sin and so to be saved from sin and to be saved from punishment always goes hand in hand. When the sin stops, the punishment can eventually stop once all the sins done thus far have been punished - except in the cases where punishment is waived on account of ignorance of the sinner while doing a certain sin. This having been said, yes, some men are saved from the Lake of Fire and some men go through it and are saved by it. However, the same loving correction of the presence of God in the official Lake of Fire event at the end is a thing even people saved in this life go through - albeit not so intense and publicly humiliating as then. We too have to go through facing our sins and our wretchedness and Godly sorrow that leads to repentance and this is all done while God's presence reveals these things to us. So we do go through Lake of Fire Jr edition to be saved even in this life. It is not really something to be saved from as it is something to be led into as a necessary means to crucify the old man and bring about the destruction of the old man and a renewing and rebirth into newness of life as a new creature in Christ. So we don't wish to save anybody from the Lake of Fire of God's presence and correction but rather we wish to usher them into it as soon as possible because if they don't pass through the fire now, they will then and it will be far more awful and severe and horrendous to do this in front of all while having God himself stare you in the eyes as it happens. I can only imagine what that would feel like while still in your sins. You say "Traditionally the argument would be that if we sin then we are breaking God's law and the punishment is being cast into the lake of fire either for eternity or until we are utterly destroyed" --- I disagree with your assigning infernalism and annihilationism as the traditional views as though universalism is some nontraditional newcomer on the scene that all the hip kids are grabbing hold of. It was the DOMINATING doctrine of the early church for 400-500 years and the establishment of the doctrine of infernalism happened right as we crossed into the dark ages and the catholic church rose to prominence as it laid in bed with the state in a corrupt power grab. This plunging of the world into the dark ages had a significant deal to do with these false doctrines being shoved down the churches throat like infernalism - and annihilationism was always a very minority fringe view. You ask "Why does anyone need to be saved from sin in the first place?" --- you then point to avoiding the Lake of Fire as the only reason anyone has a need to be saved from sin. I disagree with this in many ways. Sure, if saved from sin you do avoid the Lake of Fire judgement at the 2nd resurrection, however, that is far from the only reason anyone needs to be saved from sin in the first place. To suggest that is to suggest that salvation is just fire insurance alone and offers no further benefits which is pure folly. Everyone needs to be saved from their sins because while in sin, we are slaves to sin and are torn apart inside from the guilt and regret and can have no true peace. We become empty inside and separated from God, our sins building barriers between us and God and this is no way to live. It is a horrible thing to be in wrong-standing with God and is extremely sad. The emptiness of such an existence is suffocating and leads many to consider suicide and the rest to bury the emptiness with music, distractions, pursuing lusts, etc. But the knowledge of the emptiness and futility of it all is always chasing you and always overtakes you when the high fades and the music ends - it is always there haunting you. It is the raven that haunted Edgar Allen Poe to insanity. ONLY by being set free from sin and becoming a slave to righteousness can we experience life as it was meant to be experienced - a life full of joy and peace and in oneness with God. A life rich with spiritual treasures and a life of serving others selflessly while enjoying fellowship with the creator as He continues to reveal Himself and bless you beyond all imagination. A life of triumph and victory. This is what God wants for everyone. So to suggest that the only reason anyone has a need to be saved from sin is merely to avoid a punishment to come is really immature to suggest, is carnal to say, and is blindness to the majority of what the Bible is trying to drive home in its teachings. Yes, we do want to avoid God's corrective punishments by instead obeying Him, but that is only a tiny fraction of the great need we have to stop sinning.
I commend you for understanding the truth of universal salvation for ALL mankind . "Predestination" is another truth, and it has nothing to do with "Calvinism"......NOT as he misunderstood it . What I wanted to add for YOUR understanding is the doctrinal truth of "reincarnation". This was understood by all ancient cultures , Jesus and his apostles understood it, Jesus taught it , and it is still taught in Orthodox Judaism today . The false Roman Church outlawed the teaching in 355 AD at their Second Council of Constantinople....... I wonder why ?
I'm certainly open to the concept of reincarnation being one tool in God's toolbox. In John 9:1-5 the disciples clearly believed that and Jesus didn't repudiate that belief. But Jesus does appear to repudiate the idea that God is using this to punish people. I suspect God would more likely employ this for purposes of justice, someone whose life was cut short but still needs to learn life's lessons. Or to restore someone who was so egregiously wronged they would enter the kingdom in bitterness.
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ....I'm glad that you are open to understanding this. There are others who teach universal salvation.....but not together with the doctrine of reincarnation. Paul tells us in Galatians not to be deceived, that God is not mocked, and we reap what we sow ( Galatians 6:7 ). So this must mean we "reap" in this life or the next, because "broad is the way that leads to destruction ... ( "destruction" = apoleia = utter destruction of "VESSELS" ).....and MANY there are that go in by it ." Jesus also taught reincarnation, without actually "teaching" it, because it was already well understood in Judaism and many other ancient cultures as well . This is why He didn't rebuke them when He asked them "Who do the people say that I am " and they answered accordingly. He also gave a parable about reincarnation in Mathew 5:25-26 ....for those who can "see" it . And the "lake of fire" is this process....and we are in it now . The "second death" is that of the body.....the first "death" was spiritual......as we are all now "dead" spiritually . ( Ephesians 2:1 ).........The second death has no power (authority) over the redeemed . ( Revelation 20:6 )
@@TheWhyIsThatSo I personally don't have a problem with the idea that God uses reincarnation for whatever purpose he deems fit. But I wouldn't call it a doctrine, more of a belief Christians are free to embrace on a personal level. As I said, I do believe this is one tool in God's toolbox., and as pointed out you can infer it from scripture.
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ...Yes, and I'm saying it was a doctrine of the early church before it was outlawed by the false Roman Church. Are you familiar with the word "antichrist" in scripture ?
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ...."Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched " is also a reference to the cycle of reincarnation. The "worms" or maggots that consumed the bodies in the literal fires of the trash dump outside Jerusalem are long gone........but the maggot still consumes the dead body when it dies and the soul returns to this world of pain and suffering to be tried by "fire" again and again until perfected .
Readers, would you be surprised to know that the Bible nowhere threatens to "torment" dead sinners, only living ones? It's true. ● Sheol is not a place of torment. ● Hades is not a place of torment. ● Gehenna is not a place of torment. ● The Lake of Fire is not a place of torment.
One of your arguments for universal salvation is "every knee will bow". Yet couldn't this be done by those who had rejected Christ simply because they are overpowered and afraid before being cast into the lake of fire?
no it can't. The every knee will bow doesn't end there. It also says every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This confession is not made by someone with a sneer on their face and forced out of them and made in a insincere way as you suppose. It is a confession that is genuine and comes from the heart because anything else would not bring God glory. Paul teaches that one cannot confess that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Also, tying into the same prophesy about every knee bowing and every tongue confessing, we have: Romans 14:11 NLT For the Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the LORD, ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God.’” So when they bow and confess Jesus is Lord, Paul teaches that what they are doing when then bow in this way and confess this thing is they are actually declaring their allegiance to God! It is not a empty sneering confession made while rolling their eyes or with their fingers crossed behind their back while winking devilishly as you suppose. It is a real declaring of their allegiance to God. Romans 14:11 NASB For it is written: “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, TO ME EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, AND EVERY TONGUE WILL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.” --- several translations here also say that every tongue is giving praise to God. So when these people are bowing and confessing Jesus is Lord, they are declaring allegiance to God, declaring Jesus is Lord, and are giving praise to God. Isaiah 45:23 By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance. --- here in Isaiah we also see every tongue swears allegiance. That is not some grumbling insincere thing as you suppose. Isaiah 45:24 Surely they will say of Me, ‘In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.’” All who rage against Him will come to Him and be put to shame. --- so this confirms that it applies to every person or being that ever raged against Him and that all will come to Him and all will be put to shame by Him for their wrongs. All will say of Him only in Him are righteousness and strength. It is only logical that they can only testify of what they know. They are abiding in the righteousness and strength of the Lord when they say this and they know of this strength that is only found in the Lord and testify to this as praise. They know of the righteousness of the Lord and testify of this righteousness they are now partaking in. Isaiah 45:24 confirms it is a righteousness that they are experiencing themselves in the NLT translation of this verse which says: The people will declare, “The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength.” - so they are testifying of the righteousness and strength they now have while they bow and confess Jesus is Lord. They have righteousness and strength while they confess this themselves experiencing it. The jews would understand that this all points to Moses song of deliverance from exodus 15:2 "The LORD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise Him, my father’s God, and I will exalt Him." --- this is what the people are doing when they bow and confess. That all said, it is actually silly to consider the angel Michael with a hot poker shouting in the ear of some sinner who was just resurrected from the dead - bow down - and they refuse so he kicks them in the back of the knees roughly and they come crashing down to their knees and then he says NOW SAY JESUS IS LORD FOOL! and they grit their teeth and shout NEVER! Then he jabs them in the back with a hot poker and they scream loudly as Jesus looks on smiling relishing it and then Michael says SAY IT! and they then mumble quitely fine screw it - Jesus is Lord they say with a sneer and unimaginable hate in their eyes and balled fists - Michael turns to Jesus and says - was that good enough? Jesus nods somberly - that will do, now punt him. So then Michael steps back about ten paces, smiles, and charges at the sinner and kicks him as hard as he can, punting him about a mile over the cliff edge as he screams and he goes cannon balling into the Lake of Fire volcano. This is a very carnal picture you have of the justice and plan of God.
In Phil. 2:10-11 & Rom. 14:11, Greek word for confess, _exomologeomai,_ is also used by Christ to praise His Father in Matthew 11:25 & Luke 10:21. It's never used in any verse to mean forced praise, which is what many are forced by their theology to argue it can mean here. The implications are enormous.
You say his reading in Lamentations is out of context. I disagree. The truth that God does not cast off forever is a precept and the Bible is learned precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. Just because that verse is being used to reassure the Israelites who were presently cast off by the Lord for their sins does not mean God does not always as a precept restore and bring back people who have been cast off by their sins in general as you suppose or infer here. He teaches this as a universal truth. It is a everlasting quality of God that he does not cast men off forever but because of His mercy and everlasting kindness, He always longs for their reconciliation. We see this plainly in the story of the prodigal son. He never stopped longing for the son's return home. This same quality of not casting that prodigal off forever but yearning for the return of the son is there - the same precept being put on display from Lamentations is being put on display again in that parable. God leaving the 99 for the one sheep that wandered - this demonstrates his love for those who go astray into their sins. God casts them off on the one hand, delivering them into the hands of sin, but also chases after them, waiting for their return and He rejoices more when they return than in the 99 who did not wander astray. The same exact precept of not casting off forever in Lamentations is on display in this precept here. The precept does not go away and is not forever lost in its setting in one context but unable to be pulled and applied to other contexts as you suppose. You cannot reason from scripture by supposing that every time anything is said in one context, that truth is confined and forever imprisoned in only that context and never extends to new situations. That type of teaching completely undermines the truth that doctrine must be learned precept upon precept, here a little there a little. To suggest that God does not cast away forever is a limited truth that only applies in very minute contexts and does not apply in any other context is actually folly sir. It is describing a actual characteristic of God's personhood and nature. You saying it only applies God's personhood and nature as it pertains to Israel and only in the specific situation Israel underwent in that particular time period is ignorant. Isaiah 45:22 Let all the world look to me for salvation! For I am God; there is no other. 23I have sworn by my own name; I have spoken the truth, and I will never go back on my word: Every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to me.” 24The people will declare, “The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength.” And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed. 25In the LORD all the generations of Israel will be justified, and in him they will boast. In this passage, we see the precept of God not casting anyone away forever now extending to all descendants of Israel for all generations and we see it also then extend out to all men, everyone with a knee and everyone with a tongue will bow and declare allegiance to God. So you see, God is drawing all men to Himself and the not casting anyone away forever is not some notion or precept that is a partial truth and only applicable in certain situations. It is a universal truth that will always stand and the fulfillment of which is plainly taught throughout the Bible. God will save all men in the fullness of time. He extends this willingness to recover all who are cast away when he says if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways, seek my face and pray, then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins, and heal their land (heart). This truth applies for all people everywhere. This is why it says for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in the present age. This is something all men are called to. All men have been given the light of creation which testifies of God and of their conscience which testifies of right and wrong. All men are cast away when they sin and all men are invited back if they repent. This is a universal precept. You have to be careful with the false doctrine of "that precept can't be a universal truth if it is a precept used in a particular context and you cannot then use it in any other context". By this, you could say "well the book of Romans was written to the Romans and the truths held there can only be applied if you are a Roman and have no relevance to us today". That is the same logic you are employing with his usage of the universal precept we find in Lamentations. It is ignorant to suggest that God will cast away forever when the Bible says that is not how God is. You say "Don’t be deceived by smooth talkers" --- by this you infer that the creator of this video is a smooth talker. I assume you suggest that because his voice is kind that makes him a smooth talker? You have misapplied this principle here and used it out of context, playing the hypocrite saying he's taking things out of context. A smooth talker is someone who tries to convince you sinning is okay and eases you into searing your conscience with their smooth talking. They try to get you to forget the truth and lead you into depravity by their smooth talk. They say things that tickle your itching ears. A false greasy gracer is a great example of a smooth talker. This channel does not teach greasy grace that I have seen. It teaches we have to repent and obey God from what I've seen. So it does not promote depravity as you suggest here or infer here. What on earth is smooth about teaching that God wins in the end and His death on the cross will have the total victory in the end, but that those who die as rebels will be judged and punished - yet that punishment will be meaningful as correction and testing and will have a purpose beyond mere spiteful getting even unlovingly administered as you suppose. What about such a teaching is smooth and deceptive to you? Now if he said there would be no punishment at ALL and so go ahead and let sin abound because you will be embraced while in your sins by God when you die no matter what with zero punishment offered whatsoever - so don't fear God because he's just a teddy bear with zero wrath for the wicked - then yes, that would be smooth talking deception. But this channel does not teach that as you infer here. There is not any suggestion that we should not fear God or that God does not mete out justice on this channel. Merely that God will ultimately use that punishment to correct and purge and end the rebellion and reconcile all things to Himself as He has promised He will do.
4:07 "in light of that we need to remember Lam 3:31-33" Universalists are known for ripping verses and phrases from their context - and applying what's said to all of humanity. Shame shame shame on you Sir! Lam 3:31-33 applies the the elect of Israel - not the nations. Rom 9 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Not all are the "children of God". The Apostle Paul doesn't say all are the "children of God" either!
But-but-but doesn't Jesus, Himself, teach endless torment. (You know the passages.) Maybe this specific word imply the terrible torment from which we have been spared by the death and resurrection of Jesus. I have heard some preaching "universalism," that all will be saved. That's not this, I dare say...
no, Jesus taught that all shall be saved ultimately, but most go through wrath and punishment in the age to come and are destroyed by it - but this destruction of the old man is necessary to be made new. Only a few escape this wrath by instead laying their life down in this life and striving to enter by the narrow gate and only a few are able to enter by the narrow gate.
@@artbyrobot1 So I’ve heard. Many “discussions” here about this very topic! Who to know better about the secrets of the grave than the Creator Himself. Do you believe that Jesus taught that hell was purgatory-like, to end when our sin was totally atoned for? That can’t be right. Jesus paid it all…
@@OldSchool1947 You ask: "Do you believe that Jesus taught that hell was purgatory-like, to end when our sin was totally atoned for?" --- no I don't believe that is correct as stated. Jesus blood is the only thing that can atone for sins, not our being punished. No amount of our being punished atones for sins. But we still get punished as a means of loving correction, not atonement. Huge difference. You can have the atonement of the blood of Christ sprinkled onto your conscience by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ and our sins being laid upon Him. However, God promises we will reap what we sew. When our books are opened and we are judged according to our works, we are standing there before God hearing everything we did as recorded in the books. To stand before a holy God in His very presence and have all of our dirty laundry aired before all for all to see will be the most horrifying and humiliating thing imaginable. So embarrassing and humbling, it will utterly break the pride of every creature if they have any pride to break. Every rebel does have pride to break and so when this occurs, God's presence will destroy people along with the reading of their evil deeds. Their own wretchedness contrasted by His holiness will completely ruin them. Only if you are abiding in Christ, wholly redeemed, wholly restored, able to say I no longer live but Christ lives in me, the old me was crucified with Christ. Only if you believe this, nay, KNOW this to be the truth, only then will you be able to stand before Him boldly as every evil thing you ever did is read before all and only then will this not break you - because you were already broken and already faced this and already repented and already laid your life down for Him. There is nothing more that can be broken, no more surrender or repentance you can do if you are already His in every way and already humbled before Him in every way and walking in victory. So that is the punishment of the age to come laid out for you as well as how it works and why it is important. This punishment is the taming of leviathan spoken of in the book of Job: Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook? Will it keep begging you for mercy? Will it speak to you with gentle words? Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life? ... Who then is able to stand against me? Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. ... 33Nothing on earth is his equal- a creature devoid of fear! 34He looks down on all the haughty; he is king over all the proud.” This prophesies of the subjugation of Satan but also of the power of God to humble the pride of every man. It is prophetic. This will be the work achieved by the Lake of Fire. Also, as to your comment: "Jesus paid it all…" --- I agree that Jesus paid it all on the cross and through the sacrificial life He lived as well. But that does not mean that men do not need to go through trials to be perfected and it does not mean that men's pride does not need to be crushed by Godly sorrow brought about by God's presence and by God revealing to us how miserable and wretched we are when we are not abiding in Him. This is the work of the Lake of Fire and when any man come to God and is crucified with Christ, that man has to go through a Lake of Fire type of destruction of who he is so that the old man is destroyed and he comes up in newness of life. This is the picture given to us by baptism. We all have to be baptized by fire, but some are baptized by fire in the next life. Fire destroys and purges us of all the impurities so that we can be fit for service.
Whoa! Great, thoughtful response. I am still unconvinced that even though our “hubris” must be torn to shreds by God’s consuming fire, that does not preclude a state where “the worm diets not” or “the fire is not quenched.” Simply because our human faculties cannot comprehend a “why,” a reason I.e., does not mean that it could not be as Jesus described. Thank you for a well reasoned defense.
Severe spiritual suffering because you forever cut off. The good news there's no such thing or we all would cease to exist. If God the Creator is everything then it must exist within that parameter. There is no separation there's only love. Humanity has been in spiritual torment for over seven thousand years missing true perfect everlasting Love. Salvation is getting our Instinct love back and our true intuition with all the knowledge. Doing what we did would cause a lot of wisdom did we do it for wisdom? So when the true Christ returns we will be reconnected with the everlasting life of instinct love the wise intuition to help understand it. If this is true my suffering and torment is worth it and would make sense why someone died for love and resurrected in love. I'm in one with love and love is in one with me. However, there is something greater than I 1.
You say none can be forever cut off. I agree, however, we can be cut off from Christ when the Father who is the husbandman of the vineyard cuts us off for not bearing fruit. This separation continues until we repent and get back into Christ and God grafts us back in again. You say there is no separation. That is not true. God does separate us from Himself when he cuts off of Christ who is the vine. It says our sins separate us from God and build barriers between us and Him. You say humanity has been in spiritual torment for thousands of years. I agree in a sense, however, those who repent and are presently in Christ are not in spiritual torment but have the peace of the Lord which transcends all understanding guarding their hearts and minds. Now, we still face off against spiritual forces of wickedness, and they do try us and tempt us, but we aren't tormented by them in my opinion - not if we are standing firm in Christ and overcoming them with the full armor of God and the sword of the spirit. You say salvation is getting our love back and our true intuition. I agree, we get the love of God into our hearts and love others accordingly and get our spiritual discernment while we remain in Christ who is our salvation. You say doing what we did would cause a lot of wisdom - did we do it for wisdom? By this, I assume you mean eating from the tree and falling into evil. Yes, I do believe God allowed these things so that we would become wise and learn to not do evil by experiencing its effects and how horrible it is and running back to the loving arms of the Father determined to never go back to evil again. So in that regard, it taught us all a lesson and continues to do so. You say when the true Christ returns we will be reconnected with everlasting life and love and wise intuition. I agree in a sense, but note that he already did return in the sense of sending us His spirit for those who believe and obey and so we experience these things now if we abide in Him. But He will also return bodily to gather the righteous dead and the righteous living into the air to be with Him in the rapture event as well. Yes, all of these things does make the suffering and torment worth it, you are correct in that assessment.
To this day, it blows my mind how blasphemous the ECT doctrine really is, and how excited and passionate mainstream Christians are in defense of this idea. It makes God a violent degenerate, and also an impotent weakling --> his will can NEVER be fulfilled, as there ALWAYS has to be more torture. I have tried explaining this to people, but it's amazing the reactions I get. So much anger and hatred. It's fascinating that this word (Vasanos?) actually indicates a leading to truth. Not pleasant but ultimately serves a restorative purpose.
the same anger and hatred is provoked if you disagree with most carnal Christians on literally ANY doctrine, not just this one. If you disagree with them, you are attacking their faith, you are attacking the Bible, you are attacking their pastor, you are of Satan, you are full of demons, you are lost, etc etc. They have spiritual pride and are not humble and not patient and lack self control. We should ALL be able to calmly and lovingly discuss our different views and doctrines and spend much time searching it out together in scripture thoroughly for hours and hours together with great interest and patience asking and answering eachother's questions and interrogating eachother BASANOS eachother on these things.
@@TheWhyIsThatSo reincarnation is not true and Biblical. When one dies, the Bible teaches they enter into Sheol/Hades/Hell to await one of two resurrections of the dead. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just dead who are caught up in the clouds with Jesus at his second return. These rule with Christ for 1,000 years. Blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection. The rest of the dead do not come back to life until the 1,000 years are over. These are resurrected unto judgement, the fiery judgement. Here, God lovingly corrects them in the Lake of Fire of divine purification. This is a painful purging. Finally, they all repent and are saved. This is all laid out plainly in the Bible. It says it is appointed to men ONCE to die and then comes the judgement. So this rules out many lives lived. ONCE to die and then the judgement. The Lake of Fire is the SECOND death, not the 500th death. So reincarnation is explicitly ruled out repeatedly all throughout the Bible.
@@artbyrobot1 ....The "Lake of Fire" is the cycle of reincarnation back into THIS EVIL WORLD..... THIS is where we are "purged" and "purified" by trials and troubles by the "Adversary" (Satan) who is God's instrument for this process........maybe you should read the book of Job. This present evil world (age) is "hell"......."Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" The "worm" is the "maggot" that consumes the rotting corpse at the end of every lifetime here..... and the "fire" is the "fiery judgment" that we ALL must go through. It is appointed for man ( the physical body of a person or "soul" ) to die once ( between incarnations ) and then the "judgment" (KARMA in the next life) . "Do not be deceived, God is NOT mocked, for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap ." ( in this life or the next ) Jesus TAUGHT reincarnation......." Who do the people say that I am ? "
You're making the assumption that the fate of the Beast is the same as the others thrown into the fire because they aren't found in the Book of Life. They are the "tares," the "chaff," the "rotten trees." They are destroyed. Chaff isn't made into something in fire. It is destroyed, eradicated, removed from existence. "Torment" is one thing, but the words "destroyed" and "perish" are used repeatedly. Annihilationism is the truth.
@@freespirit7450 No, I just keep asking one question: What's on the page? It's foolish to formulate your take on heaven or hell on what you personally think is a good idea, or "Here's how I would do it." So he's found a different interpretation of the word "torment." OK. He's getting tunnel vision, ignoring everything else regarding damnation, and molding everything to fit his own pet theory. Not a good idea. What's on the page?
I think if you look hard enough, you will find Biblical support for all three views (universal reconciliation, annihilation, & eternal torment). One man's gospel truth is always another man's heresy.
Revelation 20:10. The devil and the angels being tormented in the lake of fire burning with Sulphur and brimstone. It's a physical burning worse than Sodom and Gomorrah got. The wicked will also be cast into the lake of fire. To be burned. It's almost like this channel is trying to downplay the severity of torment. ?
The Bible does not teach it is a physical fire any more than it teaches heaping burning coals onto the heads of your enemies by doing kindness unto them refers to literally buying charcoal from the store and lighting it up and pouring it on your enemy's head. You must learn to rightly divide the Word when it comes to determining between physical and metaphorical. The Bible explicitly says that what destroys them there is the presence of God. They are destroyed by the presence of God and the glory of His power according to Thessalonians. The Bible teaches us that God is a consuming fire and a river of fire flows out of His presence and His eyes are blazing fire. It says that He is a refiners fire and launderers soap and that he purifies men by this fire just as the purification of gold and silver according to Micah. So to suggest that the fire is not the presence of God and is not refining and is not as a launderers soap and is not corrective and is not His presence and is a physical fire is ignorant sir. Also, the sulphur is what is used to remove impurities from gold and silver in a crucible. Its fumes also purify the air and sulphur is used to purify the flesh and treat flesh diseases. There is much symbolism even in that. Fire was used to burn the disease on garments and utensils. It acts as a cleansing agent. You say "It's almost like this channel is trying to downplay the severity of torment. ?" --- I think there is a natural tendency toward this, but agree this must be kept in check as the threat of punishment is important and taught by the Bible to be sure. However, the sadistic and overblown torment as described by books like A Divine Revelation of Hell is false and mischaracterizes God. In fact, recall that David said that he'd rather God punish them than men because men are more brutal and God is merciful in His punishments. So to suppose that God would punish His children beyond what any human father would do to his children is false. The aim of this video is to highlight that the torment in the Lake of Fire is for the purpose of correction and purging and is not mere retribution with no correction intended. The notion that you'd punish a child who could not learn from it and would not be able to come out on the back end of that punishment the better for it is pure folly. A loving punishment always must necessarily have that end and God would never do something that did not have a basis in love at its root. God is love. His justice then is not a break away from His love and a pausing of His love but is always necessarily a expression of His love and can never be divorced from His love. His mercy triumphs over His justice.
Do this and this will happen. Wisdom of God. Warning that you Will experience your actions that you inflict upon others. To deny this is foolishness. Simply complex. Faith is the only path to revelation.
You say " you Will experience your actions that you inflict upon others. To deny this is foolishness" --- by this you seem to infer that apokatastasis universalism teaches that God will not punish everybody and so you will not actually reap what you have sewn but will only face rewards when you die even if you die as a rebel against God. This is a strawman. Apokatastasis universalism does not teach that as you slanderously suppose. Rather it teaches that if you die a rebel, you will go to Sheol/Hades/Hell to be waiting out the 2nd resurrection and this is a long period of reflection and regret and agonizing over ending up there. It teaches that you are resurrected by the 2nd resurrection and cast into the Lake of Fire and that this fire will purge you and correct you and refine you and it is the very presence of God that acts as the refiners fire and launderers soap as taught by Micah. That this culminates in restoration and renewal in Christ. So then, by no means does universalism deny that men will experience judgement and a reaping of what they have sewn as you suggest. It seems that you are playing the fool, responding to a matter without hearing it which is a folly and shame to you. There are massive books and massive amounts of scholarship that goes into universalism as a doctrine and even if some minority lukewarm Christians happen to stumble into this doctrine and believe it and use it, twisting it as a license for sin and claiming God will not punish men at all, you cannot rightly walk away with that being the accurate representation historically of the doctrine of apokatastasis universalism as is taught by this channel if you were to even look into this for even an hour or so. Give it a few months of your inspection and you will find overwhelmingly that nothing could be further from the truth. Your careless dismissal of this doctrine and summarizing it as God does not punish anybody ever is the same type of unfair treatment the atheist gives to Christianity - finding one lukewarm Christian, assuming he represents the whole of Christiandom, seeing him claim God's grace is a license for sin, and then concluding Christians are wicked sin defenders who all walk in sin and claim that is okay. No. That is unfair to do and that is exactly what you are unjustly doing to the doctrine of apokatastasis universalism and all who hold to it. It is wrong of you to behave this way.
Thanks so much for these videos!!!! Eternal torment has bothered me for a long time because I knew it couldn't be true. The thing that also bothers me is most "christians" don't seem to be bothered by the teaching that someone's loved one's (our own maybe) will be tortured forever. I have to say, any "christian" who really believes God will torture the souls of anyone forever.....doesn't know God! Here's the thing for me. We know the doctrine of "eternal torment" is a heresy. We know that it cannot be true. But for most "christians" it doesn't seem to bother them. For instance, even if it was true, they don't seem to be bothered by it! Which is something I'll never understand. Thanks for your videos as I always share them!
I agree and as a new christian at 16 many years ago this troubled me so much that I ended up leaving the faith. I imagine this heresy is doing great damage.
I used to be very bothered by this doctrine, to the point where I couldnt go outside or look at the news without being terrified for the people I saw. But I ended up asking God to comfort me because I was being tormented by that heresy and the Lord ended up comforting me with the truth and because of that Im even more grateful towards Him 🙌♥️✝️
Because We All Fall Short Miss The Mark & Are Asleep Of - Love Of GOD. I'm guilty of the same thing. I can Not Love like GOD esp when certain things happen to me by certain people. Love is a Growth Matter, not a instant installment. As now I'm older then I can see my mistakes, but without my mistakes seeing the Light of GOD I'm blinded by having things my way. It's like Peter taking his eyes off of GOD, but he's the only one who walked out on the water. Even Paul who was originally a killer of Saints.
What we have to do is - Stay In Prayer 🙏 Strong 💪 Healthy Safe Encouraged With A Smile 😁 In Jesus Christ Precious 💞 Strong 💪 Holy 💝 Name
I did believe that doctrine and I did know God. So to say you don't know God if you believe that is not true. Stop trying to demonize other Christians as soon as you disagree with them. They were taught wrong is all. They trust the Bible over their own understanding and just assume God makes sense of it even though they can't. They believe it by faith and don't accuse God despite really struggling with the concept and just trying not to think about it too much. It is that simple.
@@artbyrobot1I agree with this. I also believed this for many years because I thought it was what the bible taught. I knew the Father and walked as best as I could with Christ. Growing in Christ is a process that which to stretch beyond this life. Love is patient and kind and is to be extended to all irrespective of the doctrinal position held.
Having said that this channel is such a gift and shows us the extent of the Good News we have to share.
I went to the mental hospital twice in one year because of fear of hell. I'm schizophrenic so things like that trigger my symptoms.
😮
@@alonso8946 What.
I’m so sorry :( I understand
I was stuck in Calvinism, and the thought of eternal torment scared me so bad that I had two mental breakdowns and it triggered multiple autoimmune diseases that I will have to live with now. I’m so glad I am free now.
i feel your pain. im schizophrenic too. i wish i was never born
This really cleans up all the inconsistencies about biblical restoration scriptures. The good news is truly good news. Not just for some, but for us all. Love your enemies and forgive.
The love of God is a burning flame that reveals the darkness of our souls!
A burning flame is spot on. Snd to those prepared for the flame it is pleasant. Snd to those not prepared it is a torment.
@@cypher_funk How do you know that it isn't the light which is the illusion and darkness that is the reality?
How do you know it's not just one big cruel joke?
Wonderful presentation, brother! I came to see the truth of universal reconciliation in 2010 after having believed and taught eternal torment my entire Christian life. I am 64 and now look back and am bewildered at how I could have believed the lie of Christendom for so long! We need not be afraid of a thorough study of the original Greek words from which our English bibles were "translated". Words like 'forever', 'eternal', 'hell', 'damnation', 'destroy', 'destruction', etc. are all incorrect renderings of the Greek. A glance at any concordance will quickly dispel many of these badly translated words! A word on the Greek 'basanos'; the process of testing the genuineness of a precious metal using a basalt "touchstone". God is exposing the individual's worth through His "examination", and He would only do this for someone that is of great worth and value to Him! He will purify them by this means, and they will love Him for it perpetually!
You have an excellent channel! Really appreciate the time you put into making these videos. God bless
PRAISE THE MOST HIGH GOD, WHOSE SON IS JESUS CHRIST, WHO IS OUR LORD AND OUR SAVIOR! AMEN! 🙌🏿✝️🙌🏿
we have been going through this with Rodney Beaulieu for the last year and you have added to it in giving your sources plus confirmation ie not taking one mans word for it and studying it out for oneself, thankyou
Amen. Wonderful teaching. God bless you and your ministry.
Básanos as "interrogation", in terms of God's mercy and plan of reconciliation, leads to the questioning that a good therapist does with a recalcitrant client. Nothing is as painful emotionally and spiritually as coming to the realization that one's motives and works have been in pain, and have been totally useless. Who else but the Divine Therapist to lead the most hardened criminal through such a process where the guilty eventually recognizes his/her evil and comes to the grace of Christ.
The devil who deceived them - their body of dust who deceived them!
God is amazing 👏
Awesome video!
Just went on your page to send someone randomly a video have done that in a year or so and I see you posted. I thought some higher ups got to you or something really glad your posting. Helped set me on a better path than God
there is no better path than God.
Notice the accent mark above the first alpha? That means it's supposed to be accented. Also, in modern Greek, beta is pronounced as a 'V'. So βάσανος is pronounced VAHS-ah-nos. Great video, by the way.
Most people seem to avoid any truths in their life that cause pain, after a lifetime of running from painful truths is it any wonder that pain will be the result when they can’t run anymore but MUST finally face the truth.
So glad that you're back 😄
Thank you for this. Happy Sabbath.
Thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge. God bless you.
Exquisite . God bless you
Hi Michael, thanks so much for these videos! In the last quote of this video by Frederick Ferrar, he said that there are at least ten or twelve other ways the sacred writers could have expressed endless punishment had they wanted to be unambiguous about them; ways that they used in other parts of the Bible to express endlessness but never in relation to punishment. Can you (or anyone) please list these 10-12 other ways that Ferrar is referring to? I’d be most grateful, thank you!
So Far I Can Say That I Appreciate The Sharing The True Knowledge Of The Word Of GOD.
Stay In Prayer...
“Restoration” implies having been or had something once. We’re those that were “outside” able to RE-stored?
Tony Evans Ran Into The Same Problem. After graduation, went back to Dallas Seminary to debate this with his teacher, & proved his point that it's not Torment Forever. After that they ask him to be one of the teachers & be on the board. Success was in accomplishments towards the Truth.
Stay In Prayer...
I've never heard tony evans teach universalism.
Tony evans is not in the board of dallas seminary
They don't call our age the Time of Revelations for nothing.
I often wonder what Jesus would say to modern day churches.
My first thought was the "life review" people experience when they have an NDE.
I think given the context of the lake of fire, we should just translate this word as “refined” given the context.
When you talk about age abiding. How long exactly does the punishment in the realm of universalism for those who are condemned?
I would say it would depend on the person and on how strongly they try to hold on to their sinful natures.
@@alwaysadawg6488 wouldn’t it make more since I’m the universal logic be punished for the same amount of years you lived.
I see bible verses saying "IF bla bla bla... ... I shall raise him up on the last day". Why is it saying "if" if everyone gets raised up in the very end anyway? I thought everyone gets raised up on the last day since punishment in hell is not forever.
John 6: 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Matthew 11: 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
Are you referring to John 6:39-40? “Now this is the will of Him Who sends Me, that all which He has given to Me, of it I should be losing nothing, but I shall be raising it in the last day.
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who is beholding the Son and believing in Him may have life eonian, and I shall be raising him in the last day."
Jesus is referring to those who have been chosen to receive eonian life here, who are the “elect” who have been chosen from before the disruption of the world. Not all will experience life for the eons. Jesus never promised “eternal” life when He was on earth, He was referring to life in the next eon, the Millenial kingdom. That is what the accurate translation of the Greek “aion” is referring to, NOT eternal life.
However ALL WILL eventually be reconciled and raised to immortality at the consummation when God becomes all in all and death is abolished.
John 13:3 says, “Jesus, being aware that the Father has given ALL into His hands, and that He came out from God and is going away to God”. So ALL HAS been given to Jesus and He will lose none of what He has been given by His Father.
How do we know this? Because Philippians 3:21 says, “Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation, to conform it to the body of His glory, in accord with the operation which enables Him even to subject ALL to Himself.”
Here is something for you to consider about Christ’s nature and power:
"Moreover, Scripture is clear that, when God roused his Son from among the dead, he made him Lord of all and gave him all authority in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18; Acts 2:36; 10:36; Rom 14:8-9; Phil
2:9-11).
And with this unlimited, universal authority, Christ has the power to "subject all to himself" (Phil. 3:21).
No prior "willingness" on the part of those yet to be subjected to him is required in order for Christ to bring about their subjection. As was so clearly manifested in the dramatic calling of the apostle Paul (Acts
9:1-22), Christ can exercise his authority to bring about the salvation of any of the sinners he came into the world to save without the sinner doing or believing anything beforehand to "qualify" for salvation. It is completely within Christ's power to eradicate unbelief from the heart of even the most stubborn of sinners, and to produce within them the unfeigned love and heartfelt obedience by which God is glorified.
Concerning this fact, A.E. Knoch wrote the following:
"The apostle Paul's case is of surpassing significance in its bearing on the salvation of unbelievers. He was the foremost of sinners, and it cannot be denied that, among men, there was no case quite as desperate as his. All question as to God's ability to save vanishes in the light of his call on the Damascus road. The miraculous means employed in his case surely would suffice for every one of God's enemies." (All in All, p. 93)
On the road to Damascus, Paul was neither seeking out God, nor repentant, nor deep in prayer contemplating whether or not to "accept Jesus as his personal Savior." He was, instead, "still breathing out threatening and murder against the disciples of the Lord" and trying to hunt down more believers in order to have them led back to Jerusalem in chains (Acts 9:1-6). Though overflowing with religious zeal, he was deep in unbelief, and utterly oblivious to the fact that he was living in rebellion against the true Messiah and Lord of the universe. Yet when the appointed time came (Gal 1:13-16), Christ appeared to Paul and subjected him to himself in an instant with the glorious revelation of who he is. As a result of his remarkable encounter with the risen Christ, Paul was permanently changed, and his will fully yielded to Christ - and this took place without any resistance from Paul. Paul's words in 1 Tim. 1:14 "Yet the grace of our Lord overwhelms, with faith and love in Christ Jesus") even suggest that there was nothing Paul could've done to prevent the faith and love that resulted from his life-changing encounter with Christ.
Moreover, despite the commonly-held Christian belief that Christ can't save those who die in unbelief (and who are devoid of love for God), the fact is that it's no more difficult for Christ to resurrect and save a dead unbeliever than it is for him to save a living unbeliever. He can accomplish the former just as easily as he can accomplish the latter. Just as death cannot prevent Christ from resurrecting a person who lived and died in a state of unbelief, so it cannot prevent Christ from transforming a person into a loving and faithful servant of God."
@@caroleevandyk5544 ,. Hi sister... Good to see you and great comment 🕊️🤍
So I can just have sex with prostitutes, murder them, bear false witness and set someone else up for my murderous spree, and reject Christ, yet I'll still be in heaven? GTFOOH
Hell is the dust of the earth 🙂
I have come to the point in which if universal restoration (the eventual saving of everyone through corrective punishment for those that require it) isn’t true then I don’t want to know God or Jesus.
For then the Lord and his only begotten son have less love for humanity than some sinners do here on earth and I don’t believe that for one minute.
When you follow the Rich man Lazarus story with the promise in lamentations 3, I assume you are believing that the story Jesus taught is a parable and not an actual occurrence that happened to someone? My question to all of this is, interrogated for what purpose? There is no scriptural foundation for conversion or salvation or even repentance of anyone after death. The rich man, at least according to the telling of the story by Jesus was not getting out of there.
Not by Abraham was the rich man getting out of there ;-)
Of course its a parable. Its one of many given in the three chapters of Luke (14-16) The kingdom was being taken from the Jews (the rich man) and being given to the Gentiles (Lazarus).
Well for some, yes, they do conveniently dismiss it as mere parable. I'm a univeralist that does NOT do so. It describes upper and lower hades/sheol/hell/the realm of the dead/under the earth/the pit. This is a place of waiting for the spirits of the dead. The just dead are on the side of upper hades/abraham's bosom/paradise and the unjust dead are on the lower hades part. The just dead's resurrection will be the first resurrection/rapture event during the 7 year period. The unjust dead's resurrection will be the second resurrection where they will be judged at the Great White Throne of judgement event. While in this realm of the dead, they have no physical body because they have not yet been resurrected. The just dead are in pleasant fellowship and well encouraged. They enjoy this water of God's Word. The unjust dead are in agony of regret and isolation and long for water/encouragement/relief but there is none. Now during the 2nd resurrection, it says death and hell give up their dead. It is at this time people DO get OUT of this hell/hades/sheol waiting place. So the notion you never get out is utterly proven wrong then and there. They get out and are judged and cast into the Lake of Fire - a new place of new suffering/testing than the former. It also says death and hell are themselves cast INTO the Lake of Fire, once more proving these are two entirely different places and you DO get out of that first place when you get resurrected in the 2nd resurrection. Now Jesus said you can't cross sides down therein hades. All this tells me is that you don't get to just enjoy paradise by walking over there will all of your negativity and comingling with the saints. You are stuck on your side of suffering and don't get to partake in the joyous side's enjoyment. You are 100% in time out and get no fun time there.
You ask: interrogated for what purpose? - you then infer that the interrogation happens while in hell/hades/sheol. This is not the universalist position. As I said, hell/hades/sheol is the waiting place before you are resurrected to be judged at the Great White Throne judgement event and cast into the Lake of Fire. This video is teaching that the Lake of Fire torment is the testing/interrogation of those cast into it. This interrogation/testing is NOT being taught to apply while you are in hell/hades/sheol awaiting your judgement of the 2nd resurrection. While in the hades, you just wallow in regret and dread your coming resurrection unto judgement. You don't get finally interrogated until your books are opened and you are judged according to your works recorded in those books. That is when the real interrogation begins. So what is the purpose of the interrogation: to expose you, the lies you believe, the great evil you have done, the shame you should feel, the complete folly of any pride you may be holding onto in light of what a fool you have been in this life, etc. It says God is able to humble the proud and that is exactly what this interrogation is for. Only after God has utterly humbled and humiliated the proud in this Lake of Fire interrogation will they finally: bow and confess that Jesus is Lord, praise God, admit they are a sinner, come to Him ashamed and say to Him only in the Lord is deliverance and strength and only then are they made new and death loses its sting and death is swallowed up in victory - they put their faith in Christ.
You say "The rich man, at least according to the telling of the story by Jesus was not getting out of there." --- that is not what it says. As I already proved, he does get out of there since he gets resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire which I already proved is not the same place as there. So everyone gets out we know for 100% certain. Also, the story really only states that he doesn't get to cross sides or get relief while in there and doesn't get to go warn his family on earth. There are rules as far as him staying on his side of the chasm. That's all.
You say "There is no scriptural foundation for conversion or salvation or even repentance of anyone after death." --- this is not true. Jonah chapter 2 he relates that he died and goes to the realm of the dead, Sheol, and while in the pit, he cries out to God in repentance and God lifts his life out of the pit. Some translations say Jonah went to sheol, some say jonah went to the realm of the dead. Means the same thing. He died. While in the fish he died. It says the bars of the earth shut Jonah in forever. He was in hell. And he repented while in hell and God let him out of hell. Jesus said the only sign I will give this wicked generation is the sign of Jonah. Jesus, like Jonah, died for 3 days and was resurrected from the dead. Jonah died for 3 days and was resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. That is the sign of Jonah. The next example we have of repentance while in hell is when Jesus went down to hell/sheol/hades during the 3 days leading up to his resurrection and while there, he preached to the spirits of the dead who disobeyed long ago during the days of Noah. So these were dead people who included some of the most wicked men of all time whose every imagination was evil continually. He preached to the ancient dead, not the recently dead. 1 Peter 4:6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit --- the reason why Jesus preached to them was so that they might live according to God in the spirit. So Jesus was actually preaching the gospel to them with the intention of actually saving them in the afterlife which requires repentance and faith in Jesus to be saved. He was preaching to the demons as well (the ones who were put into chains to await judgement as mentioned by Peter) who were also ones that disobeyed in the days of Noah by laying with women and making the giants and giving them a chance to repent too. Presumably these people, being dead and suffering for 4-5k years in the realm of the dead, they were ripe to be given the good news and be saved. But for ones who died more recently, they still needed to be humbled for longer and stay in their regrets and guilt. It is unclear as to whether Jesus preaches to the dead again every 500-1000 years or so. Perhaps that was a one time event to set a bunch of captives free as a celebration of the victory Jesus just won on the cross. But in any case, Jesus did save some on that event in all likelihood and they were being given a second chance is without question.
@@artbyrobot1 In the middle of a dozen parables Jesus switches to not speaking in parable? Even though the witness of scripture declares how Jesus always spoke in parables when addressing the multitudes?
Mk4:33And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it. 34But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
@@ba.anderson You say "In the middle of a dozen parables Jesus switches to not speaking in parable?" --- No, I did not claim that Jesus was not speaking in a parable as you slanderously suggest. You just made that up. I say it was a parable and nothing about it being a parable nullifies the precepts I related to you that I have pulled from it. You are inferring to me in your post here that Jesus, while describing the realm of the dead in a parable, was falsely describing that realm and the terms of the stay there and how that realm works and thereby deceiving us or just being irresponsible in giving so many details that are not true. I tell you that the details of the arrangement were true and make perfect sense and are prophetic and were intended to teach us and are confirmed elsewhere in many other non-parable scriptures. Yes, being a parable, the names of Lazarus, the rich man, and Abraham as being specific people that all interacted in specific ways in this place could have been chosen as part of the story as opposed to a actual historical event. However, just because it is a parable does not mean there is no realm of the dead as you seem to infer or that there is no distinction made in the experiences of those who are within the realm of the dead as the parable relates. That is absurd to think. The Bible talks about elsewhere the realm of the dead and people going there in Isaiah and Jonah and Psalms and Peter among others. So Jesus is not describing a place that is not elsewhere confirmed in scripture. Jesus literally goes into Hades to preach as his body lay in the cave and he tells the thief on the cross on that day he'd be together with him in paradise that very day - which coincides and confirms the existence of Abraham's bosom/paradise spoken of in that parable and yet also Peter tells us Jesus was there preaching to the unjust dead that disobeyed in the days of Noah - which also then confirms that one can preach to the dead who are across the chasm and there were both unjust dead present as well as just dead present and able to communicate to one another as is related by Jesus' parable. Jesus would have been on the side of the just dead and preaching across the divide to the side of the unjust dead as Abraham was able to do in the parable and hence Peter confirms the parable along with Isaiah and Jonah and Psalms among others with the veracity of the conditions of the realm of the dead that Jesus related in the parable. So then, just because it was a parable and those exact persons may not necessarily have had those exact conversations, the general layout and condition of the realm of the dead and the notion of the righteous and unrigtheous separated (sheep and goats) is all there in the rest of scripture that confirms this notion and not in parable form either. The idea that the unjust dead and there chained in darkness and regretting the decisions that brought them to this place is found often in other scriptures such as Isaiah and Peter and Jonah. It is all there and can be reconstructed from the rest of scripture without the parable Jesus told that serves to confirm other scripture. So the contents of the parable are accurate as it pertains to that realm and the details and general conditions of it and the souls of those experiencing it in general - their spiritual condition is all confirmed in scripture throughout other passages that are not parables.
When he teaches the kingdom of heaven is like a sower sewing seeds, you can use the same fallacious argument you are using here: well just because the parable says seeds can be scorched by the hot sun doesn't mean seeds can actually be scorched in hot sun - that's just a parable - well no, you'd be wrong. Seeds actually can be scorched in hot sun, choked out by weeds, stopped from establishing roots by rocks in the soil and there actually is such a thing as good soil. These gardening precepts and very real conditions relating to the parable are not suddenly false precepts just because they are related in a parable. You cannot suggest that just because something is said in a parable that necessarily all the events, circumstances, details and facts surrounding the practical situations described in the parable are all necessarily false and misleading as it pertains to how things are in reality as you infer here. That is all just folly to suggest. The specific people and names may be altered, but we not only have every reason to believe that the conditions and general scenarios are accurate, but we can also strongly suspect that this exact thing did occur in a real life event. That there was actually a literal farmer father who did have a prodigal son that spoiled his inheritance that happened some time on the earth in history past or future that Jesus used in his very real knowledge of this very real occurrence and Jesus used this story based on a true story to relate a spiritual reality. Perhaps this happened to a neighbor of Jesus growing up and Jesus watched the son come home to his dad or heard about it and related that story in his famous parable because the Father taught Jesus a lesson about His own heart when Jesus learned about His neighbor and son reuniting in real life in this way. Perhaps Jesus actually did know of a merchant who sold all that he had to buy a pearl of great worth and the Father told Jesus a spiritual truth when Jesus learned about this merchant and so Jesus used this story of a real event to teach us about a spiritual truth pertaining to the kingdom of heaven. Perhaps Jesus actually did see people similarly turned away from a wedding banquet for not bringing the attire required by the host or what have you and the Father taught Him that such will also come to pass upon those who try to enter the kingdom of heaven without wearing their wedding garments. Perhaps Jesus really did know of a good Samaritan that actually did help a Jew in distress who had been robbed and further it is entirely possible that Jesus was the very Jew in question and this was a childhood experience of His and some pharisees did actually ignore him in his pleas for assistance and a good Samaritan really did carry him to an inn as a child and pay for his food and stay and treatment. I believe this did happen to Jesus even though he told it as a parable and did not mention it was Him who was the Jew and it was this experience that also led Jesus to say that if you visit the sick or those in prison or cloth someone in need that you do this for Him. That the Father taught Him this through His personal experience He relates to us in the parable of the good Samaritan. In every case we can be seeing real things in these parables but just name changed and perhaps some details altered for the sake of the story in ways that will aid the teaching of a story based on real events. So also with all the other parables. Could have literally been things Jesus witnesses and was taught by the Father as a spiritual truth while witnessing it and he goes on to relate this real event in a story while changing up the exact names and locations to conceal the true identities of the parties who were actually involved which is not significant to the lessons he was trying to teach.
In fact, Paul did the same thing when he said "I knew a man who was caught up to the third heavens, whether in the body or out of the body I do not know. Paul related this as a story and did not explicitly state he was that man in the story because it was not the crucial thing, however, all theologians I have ever heard agree that Paul was the man in that story and this was his very real experience in that story. Although admittedly in this example it wasn't a parable but a historic revisiting explicitly - yet the dropping the name of the person involved idea is my point here.
I argue that often times we relate stories as humans to one another changing up the names and details of things but relating real events with real details that actually happened to us or someone we know but we tweak it some in the story. In the case of Jesus' parables, I am confident that is just the same thing he was doing. All of these events were things he had seen and heard and been taught and he was just removing or tweaking names and some details but basing it on real things and every detail can give insight into real truths and will never be something that can throw us off track when we are searching for more insight such as what the realm of the dead is about and like and how does it operate. Jesus would not mislead us on that front as you suggest he might be doing and as I said, the details of that realm match other scriptures repeatedly confirming them.
@@artbyrobot1 Your spirit isn't very welcoming.
11:15 It's the Locusts that come out of the bottomless pit which are responsible for Revelation 9:5 you've taken that out of context.
I appreciate you adressing this very important concept of scripture. This teaching of eternal punishment, which the vast majority of Christian preachers of all kinds use in order to scare people into belief, is defamatory towards God, and does not make sense.
I agree that it is defamatory but how does it not make sense?
If you reject God then God rejects you. So if accepting God means eternal life then rejecting God means eternal death.
I would say that sounds pretty logical to me.
The only problem with it is if God is all loving and just and all powerful then eternal torture just doesn't match those qualities.
@@mrsticky005 Basically I agree with your comment, and your final paragraph evidences why the belief of incorrigable sinners burning in hell forever is not consistent with the concept of God is love. I believe those that ultimately do not repent will eventfually die, cease to exist, hence it is called the second death.
@maurizius27 Isn't "death" the last enemy to be destroyed? If death is destroyed, how will anyone remain in that condition?
@@mrsticky005 the eternal punishment is conditionally eternal - it lasts until they repent and see the light and come to Christ. The eternal life is conditionally applied as well - as long as we remain faithful. If someone rebels they don't still keep eternal life but are cut off.
touch stone?
And if the sinner never admits the truth ?.
I guess that would make man more powerful than God.
@@mattr.1887
How?
@@mrsticky005 It would mean that man has more power to willfully turn a blind eye to the truth than God has the power to reveal the truth to man. It would mean man has more power to rebel and stand steadfastly in rebellion and pride than God has the power to crush their pride and humble them. It would mean that man has more resilience and power of will to stand in opposition to God than God has the power to break the man and wait out his opposition phase.
Is your name peter?
We may not need to believe in the salvation of all to be a Christian but we do in order to become a believer.
1 John 4:13-14
KJV(i) 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
God does not preach eternal hell
Brother are you making a leap to make this word a restoration of souls rather than an admission of their guilt and loss of eternal life resulting in weeping and gnashing of teeth? Every knee will bow and every tongue confess. The condemnation of those who don’t come freely but under duress.
The torment of the Bible, while not eternal, is still clearly described as torterous.
The Bible in Revelation 14:11 uses the Greek word "Basanismos" to describe a "deep pain coming from a objective (physical)source"
which is also the case in Rev 9:5.
Some have concluded, that Basanismos referrs to the process of "using a touchstone" to test metal
Overall; metal is tested BEFORE it is thrown into the furnace. And a furnace still burns because of the fire within.
God is the savior of ALL men.
However what exactly is God saving ALL men from in the first place? According to Matthew 1:21
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Why does anyone need to be saved from sin in the first place?
Traditionally the argument would be that if we sin then we are breaking God's law and the punishment is being cast into the lake of fire either for eternity or until we are
utterly destroyed and so to saved from sin means being forgiven for your sins and not being punished by being cast into the lake of fire.
However if ALL men INCLUDES those who are cast into the lake of fire and they are eventually reconciled to God then it cannot be the lake of fire that ALL men are saved from
since most people but not all people will go to the Lake of Fire.
It would have to be that sin itself is what ALL men are saved from and NOT the punishment for sin.
You say "It would have to be that sin itself is what ALL men are saved from and NOT the punishment for sin" --- that is a false dichotomy. If the wages of sin is death and sin when conceived gives birth to death and death is absence of life and true life is only found when in right standing with God who created you to worship Him and be one with Him, then you are always going to have punishment go hand in hand with sin and so to be saved from sin and to be saved from punishment always goes hand in hand. When the sin stops, the punishment can eventually stop once all the sins done thus far have been punished - except in the cases where punishment is waived on account of ignorance of the sinner while doing a certain sin. This having been said, yes, some men are saved from the Lake of Fire and some men go through it and are saved by it. However, the same loving correction of the presence of God in the official Lake of Fire event at the end is a thing even people saved in this life go through - albeit not so intense and publicly humiliating as then. We too have to go through facing our sins and our wretchedness and Godly sorrow that leads to repentance and this is all done while God's presence reveals these things to us. So we do go through Lake of Fire Jr edition to be saved even in this life. It is not really something to be saved from as it is something to be led into as a necessary means to crucify the old man and bring about the destruction of the old man and a renewing and rebirth into newness of life as a new creature in Christ. So we don't wish to save anybody from the Lake of Fire of God's presence and correction but rather we wish to usher them into it as soon as possible because if they don't pass through the fire now, they will then and it will be far more awful and severe and horrendous to do this in front of all while having God himself stare you in the eyes as it happens. I can only imagine what that would feel like while still in your sins.
You say "Traditionally the argument would be that if we sin then we are breaking God's law and the punishment is being cast into the lake of fire either for eternity or until we are utterly destroyed" --- I disagree with your assigning infernalism and annihilationism as the traditional views as though universalism is some nontraditional newcomer on the scene that all the hip kids are grabbing hold of. It was the DOMINATING doctrine of the early church for 400-500 years and the establishment of the doctrine of infernalism happened right as we crossed into the dark ages and the catholic church rose to prominence as it laid in bed with the state in a corrupt power grab. This plunging of the world into the dark ages had a significant deal to do with these false doctrines being shoved down the churches throat like infernalism - and annihilationism was always a very minority fringe view.
You ask "Why does anyone need to be saved from sin in the first place?" --- you then point to avoiding the Lake of Fire as the only reason anyone has a need to be saved from sin. I disagree with this in many ways. Sure, if saved from sin you do avoid the Lake of Fire judgement at the 2nd resurrection, however, that is far from the only reason anyone needs to be saved from sin in the first place. To suggest that is to suggest that salvation is just fire insurance alone and offers no further benefits which is pure folly. Everyone needs to be saved from their sins because while in sin, we are slaves to sin and are torn apart inside from the guilt and regret and can have no true peace. We become empty inside and separated from God, our sins building barriers between us and God and this is no way to live. It is a horrible thing to be in wrong-standing with God and is extremely sad. The emptiness of such an existence is suffocating and leads many to consider suicide and the rest to bury the emptiness with music, distractions, pursuing lusts, etc. But the knowledge of the emptiness and futility of it all is always chasing you and always overtakes you when the high fades and the music ends - it is always there haunting you. It is the raven that haunted Edgar Allen Poe to insanity. ONLY by being set free from sin and becoming a slave to righteousness can we experience life as it was meant to be experienced - a life full of joy and peace and in oneness with God. A life rich with spiritual treasures and a life of serving others selflessly while enjoying fellowship with the creator as He continues to reveal Himself and bless you beyond all imagination. A life of triumph and victory. This is what God wants for everyone. So to suggest that the only reason anyone has a need to be saved from sin is merely to avoid a punishment to come is really immature to suggest, is carnal to say, and is blindness to the majority of what the Bible is trying to drive home in its teachings. Yes, we do want to avoid God's corrective punishments by instead obeying Him, but that is only a tiny fraction of the great need we have to stop sinning.
😢 Jesus owns space. LoL still can't get out of lower orbit because of the vacuum
I commend you for understanding the truth of universal salvation for ALL mankind .
"Predestination" is another truth, and it has nothing to do with "Calvinism"......NOT as he misunderstood it .
What I wanted to add for YOUR understanding is the doctrinal truth of "reincarnation".
This was understood by all ancient cultures , Jesus and his apostles understood it, Jesus taught it ,
and it is still taught in Orthodox Judaism today .
The false Roman Church outlawed the teaching in 355 AD at their Second Council of Constantinople.......
I wonder why ?
I'm certainly open to the concept of reincarnation being one tool in God's toolbox. In John 9:1-5 the disciples clearly believed that and Jesus didn't repudiate that belief. But Jesus does appear to repudiate the idea that God is using this to punish people. I suspect God would more likely employ this for purposes of justice, someone whose life was cut short but still needs to learn life's lessons. Or to restore someone who was so egregiously wronged they would enter the kingdom in bitterness.
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ....I'm glad that you are open to understanding this.
There are others who teach universal salvation.....but not together with the doctrine of reincarnation.
Paul tells us in Galatians not to be deceived, that God is not mocked, and we reap what we sow ( Galatians 6:7 ).
So this must mean we "reap" in this life or the next, because "broad is the way that leads to destruction ...
( "destruction" = apoleia = utter destruction of "VESSELS" ).....and MANY there are that go in by it ."
Jesus also taught reincarnation, without actually "teaching" it, because it was already well understood in Judaism
and many other ancient cultures as well . This is why He didn't rebuke them when He asked them "Who do the people say that I am "
and they answered accordingly.
He also gave a parable about reincarnation in Mathew 5:25-26 ....for those who can "see" it .
And the "lake of fire" is this process....and we are in it now .
The "second death" is that of the body.....the first "death" was spiritual......as we are all now "dead" spiritually .
( Ephesians 2:1 ).........The second death has no power (authority) over the redeemed . ( Revelation 20:6 )
@@TheWhyIsThatSo I personally don't have a problem with the idea that God uses reincarnation for whatever purpose he deems fit. But I wouldn't call it a doctrine, more of a belief Christians are free to embrace on a personal level. As I said, I do believe this is one tool in God's toolbox., and as pointed out you can infer it from scripture.
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ...Yes, and I'm saying it was a doctrine of the early church before it was outlawed by the false Roman Church.
Are you familiar with the word "antichrist" in scripture ?
@@thetotalvictoryofchrist9838 ...."Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched " is also a
reference to the cycle of reincarnation.
The "worms" or maggots that consumed the bodies in the literal fires of the trash dump outside Jerusalem
are long gone........but the maggot still consumes the dead body when it dies and the soul returns to this world
of pain and suffering to be tried by "fire" again and again until perfected .
Readers, would you be surprised to know that the Bible nowhere threatens to "torment" dead sinners, only living ones? It's true.
● Sheol is not a place of torment.
● Hades is not a place of torment.
● Gehenna is not a place of torment.
● The Lake of Fire is not a place of torment.
One of your arguments for universal salvation is "every knee will bow".
Yet couldn't this be done by those who had rejected Christ simply because they are overpowered and afraid before being cast into the lake of fire?
no it can't. The every knee will bow doesn't end there. It also says every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This confession is not made by someone with a sneer on their face and forced out of them and made in a insincere way as you suppose. It is a confession that is genuine and comes from the heart because anything else would not bring God glory. Paul teaches that one cannot confess that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Also, tying into the same prophesy about every knee bowing and every tongue confessing, we have: Romans 14:11 NLT For the Scriptures say, “‘As surely as I live,’ says the LORD, ‘every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God.’” So when they bow and confess Jesus is Lord, Paul teaches that what they are doing when then bow in this way and confess this thing is they are actually declaring their allegiance to God! It is not a empty sneering confession made while rolling their eyes or with their fingers crossed behind their back while winking devilishly as you suppose. It is a real declaring of their allegiance to God. Romans 14:11 NASB For it is written: “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, TO ME EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, AND EVERY TONGUE WILL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.” --- several translations here also say that every tongue is giving praise to God. So when these people are bowing and confessing Jesus is Lord, they are declaring allegiance to God, declaring Jesus is Lord, and are giving praise to God. Isaiah 45:23 By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance. --- here in Isaiah we also see every tongue swears allegiance. That is not some grumbling insincere thing as you suppose. Isaiah 45:24 Surely they will say of Me, ‘In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.’” All who rage against Him will come to Him and be put to shame. --- so this confirms that it applies to every person or being that ever raged against Him and that all will come to Him and all will be put to shame by Him for their wrongs. All will say of Him only in Him are righteousness and strength. It is only logical that they can only testify of what they know. They are abiding in the righteousness and strength of the Lord when they say this and they know of this strength that is only found in the Lord and testify to this as praise. They know of the righteousness of the Lord and testify of this righteousness they are now partaking in. Isaiah 45:24 confirms it is a righteousness that they are experiencing themselves in the NLT translation of this verse which says: The people will declare, “The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength.” - so they are testifying of the righteousness and strength they now have while they bow and confess Jesus is Lord. They have righteousness and strength while they confess this themselves experiencing it. The jews would understand that this all points to Moses song of deliverance from exodus 15:2 "The LORD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise Him, my father’s God, and I will exalt Him." --- this is what the people are doing when they bow and confess.
That all said, it is actually silly to consider the angel Michael with a hot poker shouting in the ear of some sinner who was just resurrected from the dead - bow down - and they refuse so he kicks them in the back of the knees roughly and they come crashing down to their knees and then he says NOW SAY JESUS IS LORD FOOL! and they grit their teeth and shout NEVER! Then he jabs them in the back with a hot poker and they scream loudly as Jesus looks on smiling relishing it and then Michael says SAY IT! and they then mumble quitely fine screw it - Jesus is Lord they say with a sneer and unimaginable hate in their eyes and balled fists - Michael turns to Jesus and says - was that good enough? Jesus nods somberly - that will do, now punt him. So then Michael steps back about ten paces, smiles, and charges at the sinner and kicks him as hard as he can, punting him about a mile over the cliff edge as he screams and he goes cannon balling into the Lake of Fire volcano. This is a very carnal picture you have of the justice and plan of God.
In Phil. 2:10-11 & Rom. 14:11, Greek word for confess, _exomologeomai,_ is also used by Christ to praise His Father in Matthew 11:25 & Luke 10:21. It's never used in any verse to mean forced praise, which is what many are forced by their theology to argue it can mean here. The implications are enormous.
That reading in Lamentations is totally out of context. Don’t be deceived by smooth talkers.
It’s the new version of the Bible you gotta realize that’s it’s been 2000 years Bible are edited now
You say his reading in Lamentations is out of context. I disagree. The truth that God does not cast off forever is a precept and the Bible is learned precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. Just because that verse is being used to reassure the Israelites who were presently cast off by the Lord for their sins does not mean God does not always as a precept restore and bring back people who have been cast off by their sins in general as you suppose or infer here. He teaches this as a universal truth. It is a everlasting quality of God that he does not cast men off forever but because of His mercy and everlasting kindness, He always longs for their reconciliation. We see this plainly in the story of the prodigal son. He never stopped longing for the son's return home. This same quality of not casting that prodigal off forever but yearning for the return of the son is there - the same precept being put on display from Lamentations is being put on display again in that parable. God leaving the 99 for the one sheep that wandered - this demonstrates his love for those who go astray into their sins. God casts them off on the one hand, delivering them into the hands of sin, but also chases after them, waiting for their return and He rejoices more when they return than in the 99 who did not wander astray. The same exact precept of not casting off forever in Lamentations is on display in this precept here. The precept does not go away and is not forever lost in its setting in one context but unable to be pulled and applied to other contexts as you suppose. You cannot reason from scripture by supposing that every time anything is said in one context, that truth is confined and forever imprisoned in only that context and never extends to new situations. That type of teaching completely undermines the truth that doctrine must be learned precept upon precept, here a little there a little. To suggest that God does not cast away forever is a limited truth that only applies in very minute contexts and does not apply in any other context is actually folly sir. It is describing a actual characteristic of God's personhood and nature. You saying it only applies God's personhood and nature as it pertains to Israel and only in the specific situation Israel underwent in that particular time period is ignorant.
Isaiah 45:22 Let all the world look to me for salvation!
For I am God; there is no other.
23I have sworn by my own name;
I have spoken the truth,
and I will never go back on my word:
Every knee will bend to me,
and every tongue will declare allegiance to me.”
24The people will declare,
“The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength.”
And all who were angry with him
will come to him and be ashamed.
25In the LORD all the generations of Israel will be justified,
and in him they will boast.
In this passage, we see the precept of God not casting anyone away forever now extending to all descendants of Israel for all generations and we see it also then extend out to all men, everyone with a knee and everyone with a tongue will bow and declare allegiance to God. So you see, God is drawing all men to Himself and the not casting anyone away forever is not some notion or precept that is a partial truth and only applicable in certain situations. It is a universal truth that will always stand and the fulfillment of which is plainly taught throughout the Bible. God will save all men in the fullness of time.
He extends this willingness to recover all who are cast away when he says if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways, seek my face and pray, then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins, and heal their land (heart). This truth applies for all people everywhere. This is why it says for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in the present age. This is something all men are called to. All men have been given the light of creation which testifies of God and of their conscience which testifies of right and wrong. All men are cast away when they sin and all men are invited back if they repent. This is a universal precept. You have to be careful with the false doctrine of "that precept can't be a universal truth if it is a precept used in a particular context and you cannot then use it in any other context". By this, you could say "well the book of Romans was written to the Romans and the truths held there can only be applied if you are a Roman and have no relevance to us today". That is the same logic you are employing with his usage of the universal precept we find in Lamentations. It is ignorant to suggest that God will cast away forever when the Bible says that is not how God is.
You say "Don’t be deceived by smooth talkers" --- by this you infer that the creator of this video is a smooth talker. I assume you suggest that because his voice is kind that makes him a smooth talker? You have misapplied this principle here and used it out of context, playing the hypocrite saying he's taking things out of context. A smooth talker is someone who tries to convince you sinning is okay and eases you into searing your conscience with their smooth talking. They try to get you to forget the truth and lead you into depravity by their smooth talk. They say things that tickle your itching ears. A false greasy gracer is a great example of a smooth talker. This channel does not teach greasy grace that I have seen. It teaches we have to repent and obey God from what I've seen. So it does not promote depravity as you suggest here or infer here. What on earth is smooth about teaching that God wins in the end and His death on the cross will have the total victory in the end, but that those who die as rebels will be judged and punished - yet that punishment will be meaningful as correction and testing and will have a purpose beyond mere spiteful getting even unlovingly administered as you suppose. What about such a teaching is smooth and deceptive to you? Now if he said there would be no punishment at ALL and so go ahead and let sin abound because you will be embraced while in your sins by God when you die no matter what with zero punishment offered whatsoever - so don't fear God because he's just a teddy bear with zero wrath for the wicked - then yes, that would be smooth talking deception. But this channel does not teach that as you infer here. There is not any suggestion that we should not fear God or that God does not mete out justice on this channel. Merely that God will ultimately use that punishment to correct and purge and end the rebellion and reconcile all things to Himself as He has promised He will do.
4:07 "in light of that we need to remember Lam 3:31-33"
Universalists are known for ripping verses and phrases from their context - and applying what's said to all of humanity. Shame shame shame on you Sir! Lam 3:31-33 applies the the elect of Israel - not the nations.
Rom 9
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Not all are the "children of God".
The Apostle Paul doesn't say all are the "children of God" either!
But-but-but doesn't Jesus, Himself, teach endless torment. (You know the passages.) Maybe this specific word imply the terrible torment from which we have been spared by the death and resurrection of Jesus. I have heard some preaching "universalism," that all will be saved. That's not this, I dare say...
no, Jesus taught that all shall be saved ultimately, but most go through wrath and punishment in the age to come and are destroyed by it - but this destruction of the old man is necessary to be made new. Only a few escape this wrath by instead laying their life down in this life and striving to enter by the narrow gate and only a few are able to enter by the narrow gate.
@@artbyrobot1 So I’ve heard. Many “discussions” here about this very topic! Who to know better about the secrets of the grave than the Creator Himself. Do you believe that Jesus taught that hell was purgatory-like, to end when our sin was totally atoned for? That can’t be right. Jesus paid it all…
@@OldSchool1947 You ask: "Do you believe that Jesus taught that hell was purgatory-like, to end when our sin was totally atoned for?" --- no I don't believe that is correct as stated. Jesus blood is the only thing that can atone for sins, not our being punished. No amount of our being punished atones for sins. But we still get punished as a means of loving correction, not atonement. Huge difference. You can have the atonement of the blood of Christ sprinkled onto your conscience by faith in the death and resurrection of Christ and our sins being laid upon Him. However, God promises we will reap what we sew. When our books are opened and we are judged according to our works, we are standing there before God hearing everything we did as recorded in the books. To stand before a holy God in His very presence and have all of our dirty laundry aired before all for all to see will be the most horrifying and humiliating thing imaginable. So embarrassing and humbling, it will utterly break the pride of every creature if they have any pride to break. Every rebel does have pride to break and so when this occurs, God's presence will destroy people along with the reading of their evil deeds. Their own wretchedness contrasted by His holiness will completely ruin them. Only if you are abiding in Christ, wholly redeemed, wholly restored, able to say I no longer live but Christ lives in me, the old me was crucified with Christ. Only if you believe this, nay, KNOW this to be the truth, only then will you be able to stand before Him boldly as every evil thing you ever did is read before all and only then will this not break you - because you were already broken and already faced this and already repented and already laid your life down for Him. There is nothing more that can be broken, no more surrender or repentance you can do if you are already His in every way and already humbled before Him in every way and walking in victory. So that is the punishment of the age to come laid out for you as well as how it works and why it is important. This punishment is the taming of leviathan spoken of in the book of Job: Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook? Will it keep begging you for mercy? Will it speak to you with gentle words? Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life? ... Who then is able to stand against me? Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. ... 33Nothing on earth is his equal-
a creature devoid of fear!
34He looks down on all the haughty;
he is king over all the proud.”
This prophesies of the subjugation of Satan but also of the power of God to humble the pride of every man. It is prophetic. This will be the work achieved by the Lake of Fire.
Also, as to your comment: "Jesus paid it all…" --- I agree that Jesus paid it all on the cross and through the sacrificial life He lived as well. But that does not mean that men do not need to go through trials to be perfected and it does not mean that men's pride does not need to be crushed by Godly sorrow brought about by God's presence and by God revealing to us how miserable and wretched we are when we are not abiding in Him. This is the work of the Lake of Fire and when any man come to God and is crucified with Christ, that man has to go through a Lake of Fire type of destruction of who he is so that the old man is destroyed and he comes up in newness of life. This is the picture given to us by baptism. We all have to be baptized by fire, but some are baptized by fire in the next life. Fire destroys and purges us of all the impurities so that we can be fit for service.
Whoa! Great, thoughtful response. I am still unconvinced that even though our “hubris” must be torn to shreds by God’s consuming fire, that does not preclude a state where “the worm diets not” or “the fire is not quenched.” Simply because our human faculties cannot comprehend a “why,” a reason I.e., does not mean that it could not be as Jesus described. Thank you for a well reasoned defense.
Severe spiritual suffering because you forever cut off. The good news there's no such thing or we all would cease to exist. If God the Creator is everything then it must exist within that parameter. There is no separation there's only love. Humanity has been in spiritual torment for over seven thousand years missing true perfect everlasting Love. Salvation is getting our Instinct love back and our true intuition with all the knowledge. Doing what we did would cause a lot of wisdom did we do it for wisdom? So when the true Christ returns we will be reconnected with the everlasting life of instinct love the wise intuition to help understand it. If this is true my suffering and torment is worth it and would make sense why someone died for love and resurrected in love. I'm in one with love and love is in one with me. However, there is something greater than I 1.
You say none can be forever cut off. I agree, however, we can be cut off from Christ when the Father who is the husbandman of the vineyard cuts us off for not bearing fruit. This separation continues until we repent and get back into Christ and God grafts us back in again. You say there is no separation. That is not true. God does separate us from Himself when he cuts off of Christ who is the vine. It says our sins separate us from God and build barriers between us and Him. You say humanity has been in spiritual torment for thousands of years. I agree in a sense, however, those who repent and are presently in Christ are not in spiritual torment but have the peace of the Lord which transcends all understanding guarding their hearts and minds. Now, we still face off against spiritual forces of wickedness, and they do try us and tempt us, but we aren't tormented by them in my opinion - not if we are standing firm in Christ and overcoming them with the full armor of God and the sword of the spirit. You say salvation is getting our love back and our true intuition. I agree, we get the love of God into our hearts and love others accordingly and get our spiritual discernment while we remain in Christ who is our salvation. You say doing what we did would cause a lot of wisdom - did we do it for wisdom? By this, I assume you mean eating from the tree and falling into evil. Yes, I do believe God allowed these things so that we would become wise and learn to not do evil by experiencing its effects and how horrible it is and running back to the loving arms of the Father determined to never go back to evil again. So in that regard, it taught us all a lesson and continues to do so. You say when the true Christ returns we will be reconnected with everlasting life and love and wise intuition. I agree in a sense, but note that he already did return in the sense of sending us His spirit for those who believe and obey and so we experience these things now if we abide in Him. But He will also return bodily to gather the righteous dead and the righteous living into the air to be with Him in the rapture event as well. Yes, all of these things does make the suffering and torment worth it, you are correct in that assessment.
To this day, it blows my mind how blasphemous the ECT doctrine really is, and how excited and passionate mainstream Christians are in defense of this idea. It makes God a violent degenerate, and also an impotent weakling --> his will can NEVER be fulfilled, as there ALWAYS has to be more torture.
I have tried explaining this to people, but it's amazing the reactions I get. So much anger and hatred.
It's fascinating that this word (Vasanos?) actually indicates a leading to truth. Not pleasant but ultimately serves a restorative purpose.
the same anger and hatred is provoked if you disagree with most carnal Christians on literally ANY doctrine, not just this one. If you disagree with them, you are attacking their faith, you are attacking the Bible, you are attacking their pastor, you are of Satan, you are full of demons, you are lost, etc etc. They have spiritual pride and are not humble and not patient and lack self control. We should ALL be able to calmly and lovingly discuss our different views and doctrines and spend much time searching it out together in scripture thoroughly for hours and hours together with great interest and patience asking and answering eachother's questions and interrogating eachother BASANOS eachother on these things.
Try telling them that REINCARNATION is true and biblical .
@@TheWhyIsThatSo reincarnation is not true and Biblical. When one dies, the Bible teaches they enter into Sheol/Hades/Hell to await one of two resurrections of the dead. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just dead who are caught up in the clouds with Jesus at his second return. These rule with Christ for 1,000 years. Blessed and holy are those who take part in the first resurrection. The rest of the dead do not come back to life until the 1,000 years are over. These are resurrected unto judgement, the fiery judgement. Here, God lovingly corrects them in the Lake of Fire of divine purification. This is a painful purging. Finally, they all repent and are saved. This is all laid out plainly in the Bible. It says it is appointed to men ONCE to die and then comes the judgement. So this rules out many lives lived. ONCE to die and then the judgement. The Lake of Fire is the SECOND death, not the 500th death. So reincarnation is explicitly ruled out repeatedly all throughout the Bible.
@@artbyrobot1 ....The "Lake of Fire" is the cycle of reincarnation back into THIS EVIL WORLD.....
THIS is where we are "purged" and "purified" by trials and troubles by the "Adversary" (Satan) who is
God's instrument for this process........maybe you should read the book of Job.
This present evil world (age) is "hell"......."Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched"
The "worm" is the "maggot" that consumes the rotting corpse at the end of every lifetime here.....
and the "fire" is the "fiery judgment" that we ALL must go through.
It is appointed for man ( the physical body of a person or "soul" ) to die once ( between incarnations )
and then the "judgment" (KARMA in the next life) .
"Do not be deceived, God is NOT mocked, for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap ." ( in this life or the next )
Jesus TAUGHT reincarnation......." Who do the people say that I am ? "
You're making the assumption that the fate of the Beast is the same as the others thrown into the fire because they aren't found in the Book of Life. They are the "tares," the "chaff," the "rotten trees." They are destroyed. Chaff isn't made into something in fire. It is destroyed, eradicated, removed from existence. "Torment" is one thing, but the words "destroyed" and "perish" are used repeatedly. Annihilationism is the truth.
Are you bitter?
@@freespirit7450 No, I just keep asking one question: What's on the page?
It's foolish to formulate your take on heaven or hell on what you personally think is a good idea, or "Here's how I would do it."
So he's found a different interpretation of the word "torment." OK. He's getting tunnel vision, ignoring everything else regarding damnation, and molding everything to fit his own pet theory. Not a good idea.
What's on the page?
I think if you look hard enough, you will find Biblical support for all three views (universal reconciliation, annihilation, & eternal torment). One man's gospel truth is always another man's heresy.
Sins are burned in the fire. Which leads to much emotional and mental pain.
@@robbchristopher158 Sins are not "chaff" and "tares"; sinners are.
Revelation 20:10. The devil and the angels being tormented in the lake of fire burning with Sulphur and brimstone.
It's a physical burning worse than Sodom and Gomorrah got.
The wicked will also be cast into the lake of fire. To be burned.
It's almost like this channel is trying to downplay the severity of torment. ?
The Bible does not teach it is a physical fire any more than it teaches heaping burning coals onto the heads of your enemies by doing kindness unto them refers to literally buying charcoal from the store and lighting it up and pouring it on your enemy's head. You must learn to rightly divide the Word when it comes to determining between physical and metaphorical. The Bible explicitly says that what destroys them there is the presence of God. They are destroyed by the presence of God and the glory of His power according to Thessalonians. The Bible teaches us that God is a consuming fire and a river of fire flows out of His presence and His eyes are blazing fire. It says that He is a refiners fire and launderers soap and that he purifies men by this fire just as the purification of gold and silver according to Micah. So to suggest that the fire is not the presence of God and is not refining and is not as a launderers soap and is not corrective and is not His presence and is a physical fire is ignorant sir. Also, the sulphur is what is used to remove impurities from gold and silver in a crucible. Its fumes also purify the air and sulphur is used to purify the flesh and treat flesh diseases. There is much symbolism even in that. Fire was used to burn the disease on garments and utensils. It acts as a cleansing agent.
You say "It's almost like this channel is trying to downplay the severity of torment. ?" --- I think there is a natural tendency toward this, but agree this must be kept in check as the threat of punishment is important and taught by the Bible to be sure. However, the sadistic and overblown torment as described by books like A Divine Revelation of Hell is false and mischaracterizes God. In fact, recall that David said that he'd rather God punish them than men because men are more brutal and God is merciful in His punishments. So to suppose that God would punish His children beyond what any human father would do to his children is false. The aim of this video is to highlight that the torment in the Lake of Fire is for the purpose of correction and purging and is not mere retribution with no correction intended. The notion that you'd punish a child who could not learn from it and would not be able to come out on the back end of that punishment the better for it is pure folly. A loving punishment always must necessarily have that end and God would never do something that did not have a basis in love at its root. God is love. His justice then is not a break away from His love and a pausing of His love but is always necessarily a expression of His love and can never be divorced from His love. His mercy triumphs over His justice.
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😂All that read will experience Jesus power ask why
why?
Do this and this will happen. Wisdom of God. Warning that you Will experience your actions that you inflict upon others. To deny this is foolishness. Simply complex. Faith is the only path to revelation.
You want people to burn in hell?
You say " you Will experience your actions that you inflict upon others. To deny this is foolishness" --- by this you seem to infer that apokatastasis universalism teaches that God will not punish everybody and so you will not actually reap what you have sewn but will only face rewards when you die even if you die as a rebel against God. This is a strawman. Apokatastasis universalism does not teach that as you slanderously suppose. Rather it teaches that if you die a rebel, you will go to Sheol/Hades/Hell to be waiting out the 2nd resurrection and this is a long period of reflection and regret and agonizing over ending up there. It teaches that you are resurrected by the 2nd resurrection and cast into the Lake of Fire and that this fire will purge you and correct you and refine you and it is the very presence of God that acts as the refiners fire and launderers soap as taught by Micah. That this culminates in restoration and renewal in Christ. So then, by no means does universalism deny that men will experience judgement and a reaping of what they have sewn as you suggest. It seems that you are playing the fool, responding to a matter without hearing it which is a folly and shame to you. There are massive books and massive amounts of scholarship that goes into universalism as a doctrine and even if some minority lukewarm Christians happen to stumble into this doctrine and believe it and use it, twisting it as a license for sin and claiming God will not punish men at all, you cannot rightly walk away with that being the accurate representation historically of the doctrine of apokatastasis universalism as is taught by this channel if you were to even look into this for even an hour or so. Give it a few months of your inspection and you will find overwhelmingly that nothing could be further from the truth. Your careless dismissal of this doctrine and summarizing it as God does not punish anybody ever is the same type of unfair treatment the atheist gives to Christianity - finding one lukewarm Christian, assuming he represents the whole of Christiandom, seeing him claim God's grace is a license for sin, and then concluding Christians are wicked sin defenders who all walk in sin and claim that is okay. No. That is unfair to do and that is exactly what you are unjustly doing to the doctrine of apokatastasis universalism and all who hold to it. It is wrong of you to behave this way.