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theres a reason this is the only planet weve ever seen that even looks like this let alone has extremely advanced lifeforms millions of years passed being single cellular. I beleive aliens are that reason, we are the seed
@@carlmccartney1025 "We" as in all Earth life, right? All life on Earth evolved from the same single cell organisms whether a maple tree, fire ants, or humans...
Loeb is wrong. Most of the peculiar aspects of omuamua have been proven to be consistent with a natural explanation He’s trying to sell his book and raise awareness for the star shot
Can't stomach Twitter and never go there, but I see it all the time on Facebook: Someone deemed an expert makes a remark about some scientific or technical topic. A large number of people find the remark or claim or factoid, whatever it is, appealing or comforting. They agree that it must be right because it just plain _sounds_ right and besides, the guy's an expert-and who are we to argue with experts? Having reached consensus that their agreement-to-agree has validated the expert's remark, the happy customers then proceed to lecture everyone else on what The Science is and if you are skeptical of their opinions about The Science, you must therefore be "anti-science." Any statements by someone deemed anti-science are of course to be discarded immediately. I don't know whether this way of "doing science" on social media is laughable or terrifying. I'm leaning toward the latter.
@@mikearst2940 In general the definition of an "Expert" is as follows. If you are a math whiz, in Algebra, "X" is an unknown quantity. If you are a plumber a, "spurt" is a drip under pressure. Therefore an, "Xspurt" is just an unknown drip under pressure!!! There seems to be lots of these self proclaimed, "Experts" peddling their wares. Maybe these experts should do less self aggrandizing to promote their latest project/theory and more honest searching for the truth.
Then again, there are times when someone who's actually thoughtful makes a remark that is mere speculation, after which thousands of people seize upon it-entirely out of context-and turn it into *The Science.* Or someone who masquerades as a science writer extracts some factoid out of the abstract of a scientific paper, futzes with it a bit to make it sound exciting and sexy in his article; the usual suspects on Facebook or Twitter pick up on it, and shazam! *The Science!*
Science isn't a philosophy or a lifestyle. Science is a process designed to overcome the fallibility of human ego in relation to our perceived reality. The main purpose of science is to disprove subjective conclusions rather than prove ideological agendas.
@@MrRickstopher >> _The main purpose of science is to disprove subjective conclusions rather than prove ideological agendas._ . . . to which social media replies: “Oh, yeah? Hold my beer.”
It needs to repeat so it can be proved to be ET. You need a repeating signal so that the telescopes can affirm its not interfefence or produced from a satellite, etc.
I like Avi Loeb's point that the force labeled dark matter is highly speculative and could show that something more familiar to us, gravity, is behind it in a way we do not understand.
Yet he spends the entire interview basically claiming we should ignore evidence and skeptics and simply believe what we want to. I am only a quarter way through so far and almost everything he stated is simply wrong and the wrong way to look for new information. He chooses emotions over logic and evidence.
@@seditt5146 I don't recall a single moment where he suggests ignoring evidence or skeptics. He's saying that it's wise to be skeptical but that skepticism isn't about censoring. I also don't think he even once suggests that Oumuamua is artificial - just that's there's sufficient unknowns that it's worth considering further instead of taking the orthodox opinion.
@Comrade NB youre kidding? Find a physicist. Tell him you think dark matter and or dark energy are bullshit. Worse yet tell them you think it's lazy mediocre thinking.
Hey folks, a writer going on shows to help sell their book isn't "shilling". They're doing their job and making a living. The idea that somehow makes him inauthentic is just stupid. Is your expectation that everyone in this field should make their research, thoughts, ideas and theories free, otherwise they can't be trusted? How ridiculously idiotic.
This conversation brings to mind a quote from a once-prominent scientist: "Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible" -Simon Newcomb, Canadian-American astronomer and mathematician, 18 months before the Wright Brothers' flight at Kittyhawk.
What a typical highly educated dill Newcomb was ... Mechanical flight heavier than air impossible hey? So the air is not full of birds and bees flying around ?? omg!!
@@CandorHispanus A complete exaggeration like that only proves my point there’s substantial evidence and multiple person sightings and reports that many legitimate scientists and professional trained observers etc are unable to dismiss so your patronizing only proves your ignorance. Nobody makes a point about claims without some substance . Sagan admitted at the end of his life he regretted being so outspokenly skeptical
@@user-nw2si7hu3u Sagan was one of the most willing skeptics to study the UFO phenomenon - so yeah it's good of you to mention ignorance: The Dragon In My Garage is a well known Sagan thought experiment on the validity of claims. The fact you don't understand it is telling. Thanks for proving you don't know the first thing about Sagan's positions, or how to think critically in scrutinizing claims. I don't expect a source on the vague claim that Sagan "regretted being so outspokenly skeptical" either.
@@corwinzelazney5312 Nothing wrong with it. He was just pointing out a practical reason for him to be so busy. Promoting and selling books is already an uphill battle. Even more so for science focused works. I wouldn't be surprised to hear him on Frasier Cain or Paul Sutter's channel soon. Still enjoy these discussions anyway. I actually didn't know he was on with joe Rogan too.
An open mind is one thing, but the chances of detecting a planet that is currently, or depending on the distance, in the past few years or centuries, A) has fossils, B) Had an event that turned those fossils into carbon C) has an intelligent life form capable of burning those for fuels D) is burning them to the point where they are detectable as CFC's...i think are next to nothing and not worth wasting telescope time or money.
I preordered Professor Loeb’s book last week after hearing his interview on Lex Fridman’s podcast. Fascinating, John. I appreciate your perspective and line of questioning. Thank you for having him.
Man this guest is absolutely fantastic why have I never heard his perspective and opinions before now? I have ADHD and struggle to take in information but this guy is so easy to listen to it's great. Thank you for this conversation.
@Alex Clark I also have ADHD. If you watch UA-cam on a smart phone (iPhone, Android) or a tablet (iPad), tap the left side of the video twice in quick succession to rewind the video 10 seconds. Tap 4 times to rewind 20 seconds, and so on. Fairly often, I'll be watching a video then miss a section because my mind went off on a random digression. That quick rewind feature is awesome for people like us.
22 minutes in and I found my favorite contemporary scientist : Avi Loeb. I believe they should teach everyone from young age scientific method and scientific thinking.
@@Mozart1220 It isn't a conclusion, and that isn't the point. Avi's entire philosophy is to not be afraid of straying from the status quo. He is the embodiment of thinking outside the box. The point of this is just to get people, especially established scientists, to just _THINK!!!_ And not to immediately reject a hypothesis or to _wish the weird situations away_ for the sake of simplicity. That's all he's doing here. And as far as I'm concerned, we need way more people like him than not, especially in STEM.
Honestly its probably because they overdid their optimism in the 20th century with thinking Venus and Mars had Earth level biospheres and the crazies that believe aliens are flying around engaging in an alien anal fetish.
I think the best explanation is that, at an individual level, there's a great aversion to being seen as "a Kook". Nobody (or at least, nobody who wants to retain status as a "respectable scientist") wants to be the "crazy hair aliens guy". (I know you know who I mean, and if you Google that exact phrase, the first five hits will all be him, which makes my point.) This is similar to, if a bit more pointed but less cynical than, Dr. Loeb's answer about fear of loss of job opportunities, etc.
@@voidstarq Oh No! Not Giorgio! Don't see it. Who wouldn't want to be Galileo! Remembered for centuries after his death. Bit of a drag having to go through the house arrest by the Church.
That is simply not likely to exist. There are no other good candidate substances. You could have robots but there's no means of them being brought about except by other life such as the warm squishy water based oxygen using ones.
@@medexamtoolscom the universe is infinite and so are the possibilities. Have you ever thought of a completely different concept? A concept that isn’t governed by our laws of physics? Life that has no need for water or oxygen. Maybe another type of life that is the negative to our positive ?
The truth is always the thing that we should strive for as an intelligent species, no matter how unapproachable or unacceptable it seams at times. It was a privillege to listen to Dr. Avi Loeb! All the best with the future endeavours!
I was literally just having a conversation about audiobooks. And I was like. I need to go listen me some JMG for a pleasant audio experience and here I am.
Mr Godier is definitely a member of the league of pleasingly voiced gentlemen. Other members I’d include would be Isaac Arthur, Parallax Nick, and Sir Richard Burton.
Exceptionally profound and apt presentation/argument John! Such a treat to have Dr Avi Loeb on your show to discuss the extraordinarily curious topic of 'Oumuamua. I greatly admire Dr Loeb's attitude and philosophy towards science in general, and he's 100% correct: science should be about remaining open-minded enough to approach everything unknown, and to treat everything as possible until absolutely, unequivocally, proven otherwise. Over the past years I've been an amateur archaeologist with a heavy emphasis on research and patterns in stonework. And as a someone who now enters into formal education to pursue a degree in anthropology, I've noticed Dr Loeb's comments regarding the politicisation of academia to be especially apt. There is increasingly compelling evidence to support the theory that there was once advanced civilisation on Earth long before our current paradigm, only for it to be immediately and outrightly refuted by academics based purely on the idea that its contrary to everything they were taught many decades ago. As a long-time student of history and philosophy, I've also noted that humankind as a species tends to be reactive and immediately adverse (hostile) to anything that challenges a group or individuals paradigm and ideology, and in many regards I would argue that it is ideology that is the root cause of resistance to open-mindedness and exploration of new ideas... even if there is corrobarating evidence to suggest one should look deeper. Thoroughly enjoyed this presentation and I look forward to future presentations on this topic, or with Dr Loeb in general. Namaste ✌
Can someone explain why SETI requires the signal to repeat? We sent out the Arecibo message in 1974. Once. By SETI's own standards our signal would be dismissed because it didn't repeat.
because repeatable results is literally the base of all science. go back to school where they should teach you that emanating techno signatures of a civilization is not even comparable to a clearly targeted, encoded signal that wouldnt need repeated because anyone smart enough to read radio waves would understand immediately that the Arecibo message is is not natural and would need to be created by intelligence. we also give off an insane amount of noise in space, our techno signatures beam everywhere from us. not hard to find. if they needed a second ping it wouldnt be hard to trace where the Arecibo came from and find evidence of us. lastly, we probably dont really want to be found first....
@@olbluelips couldnt agree more but if someone is picking up and monitoring radio waves, you cant deny it is impossible not to notice it. btw, i think it was a dangerous idea. no i dont believe in alien invasions and intergalatic civilizations but id rather discover than be discovered.
Good point. Yes we need repeat signal but here we are deliberately sending out a non repeat signal. Maybe aliens have the same problem of not getting acess to the equipment to send out signals, repeatadly. Also, several signals are still non repeat from the point of view of someone that only manage go pick up one missing the rest. As such a sending need to be persistent over long time. Now try to get access to that use.
What this conversation proves is that human conservatism hasn't evolved since galileo in some cases. I'd go further by saying that all technology aside we're no different from the average roman citizen 2009 years ago. We still strive for the same things.
Funny enough, Galileo didnt get killed because of his scientific studies, but for his strict criticism of catholic church corruption. Inquisition was okay with his studies but not with his politics.
Why I said no? Because there are millions of people thinking like you who will keep an open mind and/or stop human extinction because of not having a open mind. Thats right: Zoom out when you think it's a doomsday scenario.
I have an answer for Loeb's first question, a philosophical one: I'm pretty sure most scientists, and a lot of humans in general, are fundamentally scared of finding alien intelligence because there is a rather good chance that our spices was "jump started", and didn't evolve naturally, and this is something so scary for the current dogma that it's instantly ridiculed and dismissed, and causes everything alien related to be basically taboo. There are so many aspects of our genetic structure that are so cowardly explained away, not to mention the extreme difficulty for complex biological life to grow and prosper in an environment that is constantly destroyed by interstellar cataclisms, seen how long evolution takes, that the idea that an advanced race could help the development of intelligent life when they find the chance to do so is rather logical if you rid yourself of sterile skepticism and taboo. Also to consider for the search of extraterrestrial life, is that it doesn't necessarily needs to meet our standards, and complex life could be found in a lot more diverse environments, and if carbon based, oxigen breathing life was found, it doesn't necessarily has to be technologically advanced, in fact advanced technology could very well be the real rarity in the universe, and complex life very common. This said, Loeb is right on so many points towards academia, but too is still attached to old ideas and dogmas, although I'm sure that given the chance he is one that would change his mind.
I fell into the Event Horizon several minutes after falling into my bed, in my world they are both intricately connected. There's a storm pushing through the valley which eerily compliments this video.
@@planetoftheatheists6858 I would have thought you'd love his "we're not special and all came from soup" philosophy.... or am I reading too much into your choice of username?
Fermi’s paradox isn’t that they haven’t visited but that there appears to be no evidence that they exist. No visitors, no radio, no light, no stellar side effects. The best counter is that we haven’t looked hard enough yet. The longer and harder we look without finding something definitive the more paradoxical
I hope more of mainstream science follows Dr. Loeb’s lead. He’s really changing the stigma from ridicule to a more serious, exploratory type of attitude. Please keep it up 👽👽👽
It’s so satisfying to hear someone else discredit Fermi’s “paradox” as it recently became a more popular subject. There are a handful of colorful videos talking about how we *should* be able to detect aliens by now, when we can’t even visually identify a rock in our own solar system or the potential planets in the NEAREST solar system to us. What an asinine thing to expect to find aliens in our galaxy of 100+ billion stars, where so far, we have only confirmed and recorded a few hundred planets.
More recent estimates put the star count at around 400 billion for the Milky Way, but I've heard a wild range thrown out by various people on TV, and the confirmed exoplanet count is now several thousand, with many thousands more candidate systems that will likely be confirmed once the data is crunched from the unprocessed Kepler data sets, plus the new TESS data sets.
@@dbjt6466 The point of the paradox is that it isn't a paradox in the first place. Enrico Fermi didn't develop the thought experiment beyond the embryonic stage because 1, he wasn't interested in actually finding an answer to it, and 2, if he and his colleagues had ran the thought experiment to its natural conclusion, it would've been too humbling to his ego, and to that of all of the other scientists he proposed the "paradox" to. The realization that we are still quite primitive as a species when you can imagine other civilizations that possibly could have been around for billions of years and have technology that we can't even begin to fathom, yet we have the hubris to believe that we will detect an advanced technological civilization by "eavesdropping" in on their radio transmissions is a laughable and rather embarrassing prospect. Even IF we did pick up a confirmed radio transmission from another star system outside of ours, it would be big news, but it would ultimately not lead to any kind of meaningful contact between our civilizations, depending on how far away the signal originated. If it was from a nearby system, we would have to assume that their civilization was roughly at the same level of progress as our own, give or take a century or two, and communication between civilizations would be limited to radio contact that took whatever time relative to their distance was from us to go one way, and then wait an equal time for a reply back. If the origin of the signal was more than say 50-100 light years away, meaningful two way communication becomes impractical by current communication standards, and anything can happen to a civilization in that span of time to make it such that either they advance beyond the current standard, or they wipe themselves off the face of the planet with conflict. Civilization can be a very fragile thing to maintain even if you simply look back at our ancient history, and even evidence that is being discovered from prehistory.
@@dbjt6466 They have already been here, and continue to come to this planet. If the craft that we have unimpeachable evidence for aren't of extraterrestrial origin, then the governments of this planet have been ruining humanity and the planet all for a bizarre and petty corporate and political gamesmanship that benefits no one in the end.
@@dbjt6466 That's exactly my point. We have a MOUNTAIN of evidence that has been painstakingly collected by very diligent people for the last nearly 7 decades, yet no one, including you, has the faintest clue what I'm talking about. J. Allen Hynek was a preeminent scientist brought on by the U.S. government to help debunk the UFO phenomenon because he was one of the most hardline skeptics of his day, but by the time his contributions on these government projects ended, he was convinced that we were dealing with remotely piloted craft at the very least, or craft piloted by beings at the most, that had their origins found outside of our solar system. We have thousands of photographic, videographic, and most importantly, physical MATERIAL evidences that prove that extraterrestrials, or at the very least, physical craft operated remotely by extraterrestrials, have been carrying out operations of unknown intent for at least the better part of the past century, and perhaps even further back in our history. We have materials related to various crafts that either crashed by accident, or were forced down by fighter jets that are now housed in laboratories that possess metal alloys and construction methods that we have only begun to start understanding as of this decade, and many of these materials were recovered from crash sites dating back as far as the Roswell incident. The technology in terms of both materials science and physics defying performance capabilities far outstrips anything that humans have ever made, including the very best that private industry and military funding currently has on the back burner just waiting for the necessity to be used. So that is what is meant by various governments of the world. I'm not talking about Burkina Faso or Venezuela, I'm talking about the world power governments, and what they could possibly bring to the table technologically. It pales in comparison to what we have documented that these extraterrestrial powers that be can put into any airspace in the world at will and not be bothered in the slightest by our best defenses and countermeasures.
there isnt 5 minutes that goes by in this interview that avi doesnt say something that everyone needs to hear. either because its amazing and new, or old and forgotten.
There seems to be an inherent contradiction in the view that 'we are not interesting enough' to bother making the effort to visit us directly, and at the same time promote searching for the leftovers of efforts to directly explore Earth and its near vicinity. Despite that, he makes a very cogent argument for Oumuamua's potential alien origin, and the scientific establishment's self-serving, willful small-mindedness. We need more scientists with Prof. Loeb's approach to scientific investigation
Thank you Professor Loeb for taking a leap forward instead of merely a jump. I have been eagerly awaiting my pre-ordered copy of your book for months and my excitement builds each day.
Screw twatter, and ego. Truth and honesty are some of the ways to find real answers, & possible self-awareness. Unfortunately, most people lack those and rather spend their lives destroying each other and this world....
If the universe/multiverse is infinite the possibilities of life are also infinite. Basically everything we can imagine probably already exists somewhere out there.
More or less, if you include the time in the "infinity" measurement. There's a lot of things, that is possible, but, not such a lot of ways for them to be possible. dr. Loeb just a fanatic, that made another communism propaganda eat his brains out or he's aware of a bad ways of making money, and ok with that.
@@6point8esspcee68 He is selling his book, that is why he is everywhere right now, LoL. Has little to do with his communication skills and more to do with his agent.
That's an argument against peer review. Scientists want a consensus among their peers. And it does only take one to show them that they are wrong. I've read 17th century magazines with articles from scientists still arguing against Newton. it's kind of hilarious at times but it's necessary.
@@a-square4085 Thanks for bringing sanity to the discussion: yes it is necessary, it may fail sometimes, but as Carl Sagan said science has an auto correcting mechanism. Even Newton had doubts about his ideas. Einstein says that on his "Obituary" as he called it published as Autobiographical Notes.
Avi Loeb seems pretty chill I like how he doesn't care what others think of him when he finds something interesting he is so down to earth 🌎 idk how I managed to miss this interview!
On the hydrogen iceberg idea. If it had a small amount of dust in the hydrogen then as the hydrogen slowly sublimated the dust would remain right? Would that insulate the remaining hydrogen preserving it? Maybe the sun blew off some of the dust covering revealing some bright interior giving the weird light curve.
It's certainly possible, Cody. What really annoys me is the acceleration it showed after passing the Sun. My bet is that there's something wrong with the observations or with the calculations... But if there are no mistakes... Then I'm lost.
I strongly agree with Mr. Loeb. All my life, I kept hearing the "experts" acting as if the Earth was the only planet in the entire universe that could sustain life (somehow, we were special), and now, they waste so much time with ideas like string theory, etc.
"now, they waste so much time with ideas like string theory, etc." If you wanted to show how low you rank on the great scale of intellect. This was the best way to do it. Yeah. Why bother asking questions about the nature of the Universe? Why bother looking for ways to marry General Relativity with Quantum Gravity? Yeah. Such pointless questions. This rando Kamelhaj knows it all. We should recognise that Earth is unimportant and stop doing science. That's you.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames Hey, I'm all into science... that was, before it became politically correct and a pseudo religion. No longer is data randomly collected to postulate theories, now we arrive at theories first whether data supports it or not. Looks like they're pulling your string!
Now, you are the expert acting as if you live in a universe. Can you prove that you live in a universe? You cannot. You can only, at best, offer me an opinion. Binaverses, triverse, quad verse? Octoverse? In all fairness, you can't even prove that you are currently on a plannet. You could be living on a huge carrot. A few pictures or videos you found online, in other circles could be deemed conspires u theory nutcasery. Can you prove to me, here and now, that we live on a plannet? See the error of your ways? Now you understand that all you can offer me, and the world is an opinion. Just like the scientists you mocked. An lying aren't I? Yet I'm right lol.
I think a bigger issues is scientists can lose all credibility and even their career. Though with guys like this scientists hopefully they will all start to see the merits in this type of thinking/research
Oumuamua may have been our first interstellar visitor, but maybe it's not the only one. I was taking a video of a star on 27.05.19 at 1.20am when I accidentally caught a pointed, elongated object on video. What makes it different from Oumuamua, is that it's illuminated at one end, and it's not an artists impression. An enhanced photo taken from the video shows it in more detail. The video was taken towards the Hercules constellation.
This is probably my favorite guest you've interviewed on the show. As always your continent is incredibly good. Humanity failed when we stopped looking up and started looking down (staring at our phones). Keep up the good work. I've never donated or supported a channel before but this episode (as really all your episodes have) earned a donation.
Thank you, Professor Loeb for pointing out this close mindedness and refusal to acknowledge ideas that are outside of their paradigm. Science has ALWAYS been guilty of this.
This was an excellent episode thanks so much for keeping event horizon going. Your main channel and this one are my two absolute favorite on youtube. Keep doing what you do I love it!!!
Another question to ask is if it is of extraterrestrial origin, is it possible that this was the alien version of a dog's chew toy that gets tossed out to see how we would react? Maybe they wanted to see if we would physically investigate it, attack it, or ignore it?
Which begs the follow up question, if we fired lasers at it to see if it reacts to light - would they see it as us investigating or as an outright act of aggression? It is safe to assume, methinks, that misunderstanding / misinterpretation are universal phenomena.
That possibility seems remote since it's dependent on two other assumptions (above and beyond the one at hand, that Oumuamua is evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence when this is still speculative) for which there is as yet no supporting evidence -- assumptions are problematic to say the least in science. This possibility assumes that 1) this other hypothetical civilization is aware of us and 2) they are interested in us or at least curious about us. The first assumption is somewhat more realistic than the second, especially since we as a global community have been making deliberate efforts to send devices and signals into space in order to make it clear that we are here (in addition to all the signs we've been producing inadvertently). However, it's frankly still a bit egocentric of us to assume that they would be or must be interested in us or curious about us because we are curious about them. That kind of subjective mindset is precisely one of the things which most often leads to misunderstanding between people -- people understandably want to see themselves as good, smart, etc. but also tend to extrapolate this into a belief that other people not only might but must need and think and want the same things they themselves do when these other people not only don't but don't have to. Since we know that this creates misunderstandings between individuals and groups, there's even more reason to think it would facilitate misunderstanding between two intelligent species -- especially two intelligent species that did not even originate on the same planet! This is actually the position that Loeb himself takes. Ockham's Razor is a fiundamental, longstanding principle in logic and science...it says that the simplest explanation for anything is most likely to be the correct one. Even if we start from the premise that Oumuamua is artificial, the simplest explanation for its presence here is that it's the result of an accident rather than conscious intent. Again, this is the position that Loeb himself takes. Hanlon's Razor states that it's a mistake to attribute to malice (meaning intent) what can be adequately explained by stupidity (meaning accident). To use Loeb's own analogy, when you walk on the beach and see the bottles in addition to the shells, neither the bottles nor the shells are there as a result of intent -- they're both essentially leftover trash (one kind natural, one kind artificial) discarded haphazardly by different species. Rightly or wrongly, humans have a propensity for seeing patterns where none actually exist...this is called apophenia. Pareidolia is a subphenonemon within the larger sphere of apophenia, and it describes the human tendency to attribute a meaningful significance to an ambiguous stimulus. I think that the theory of Oumuamua being something akin to another planet's version of Voyager or Arthur C. Clarke's Sentinel -- especially when it does not appear immediately obvious (at least not to us!) that it was artificially produced -- is an example of pareidolia combined with wishful thinking.
@@slowburntm3584 he's doing his job, not shilling. Oh no! A writer is trying to sell his book instead of living in a box and giving them all away! Proof that he's not authentic! 🤦♂️🙄
What a great talk. I like how he proposes to search for cfc emissions instead of oxygen to determine an industrial civilization on other planets. Thanks for sharing this interview. Amazing.
Oumuamua passed through the inner solar system, slingshot around the sun to pick up speed, apparently deployed a ‘light sail’ (as it picked up further excess speed with no evidence of volatiles being evaporated off its surface, IE no cometary ‘tail’ for example) and then shot back out of the solar system. Scientists: Nothing to see here because “it’s never aliens.”
Based on the path Oumuamua took through our solar system, what would it have had a good view of? If we designed a mission to check out a star system would we choose a similar path? Where is it headed next?
Perhaps, assuming it was some kind of probe or whatever, it was just passing by to use the sun's gravitational pull. In either case, great question. He should have addressed that.
We take very clear pictures of earth in fine detail from space. Oumuamua came close. Very close. If it was an alien craft (something I do not believe, but being devils advocate) it absolutely could’ve gotten any information it wanted from us.
I doubt, that aliens would wait till her probe is back home, but it also didn't send any information in any direction. Probably some trash out of our own orbit.
Soooo what if "Willson" got a freand ? Like "SPALLDING" that gal gots a lot ov BOUNCE!! In FRanCe day call dat a "Ma Na Twaa",,,,, or a 4 baller in da South,,,, (any south ,,, Pick one,, South BX,, Soutrh Boston,, Alabama,) Annnd here Iam conversing with my,,,,,,
There have been several strange incidents dating back decades involving unidentified objects that perfectly match the description of Omuamua. The main one that stands out in my mind is from the tv show called Sightings. There was a russian satelite that mysteriously just suddenly shut down and vanished. The last image it sent back before blacking out was of a cigar shaped object that casted a shadow mathematically calculated to indicate the object measured around 2 miles long...That episode aired back in the late 80s.
we had our very own sighting 9 years ago in germany. it was as real as it gets, with crazy maneuvers and the much told "warping" speed it suddenly just goes into as it gets lost in the stars (or possibly over earths curvature) in a split second ( and i mean the split of a split of a split of a second) ... sure i am just words on the internet. but hey, maybe it'll happen to you one day too.
@@gdwnet Like I said, that came from a tv show back in the 80s. So I don't have a link on-hand. I just remember the episode from the series...Somebody might have posted that episode here on UA-cam though...I'll look and see. If I find that it has been posted, I'll come back to this thread to post a link...
@@tonyorob "Like I said, that came from a tv show " Guess what? TV shows aren't real. Find me real footage, real information - the celestrack number would be nice!
Don't forget to go to Cool Worlds and listen to Dr. Kipping's alternate hypothesis about Oumuamua and his thoughts about Professor Loeb's book. It's very interesting too!
watching this in modern times, Dr. Loeb's words ring more true than ever. we need to be able to discuss all science, and censoring ideas has never solved any problem.
How this man talk about sense of life and space. Its a very good interview and an eye opener for a lot of people. I think. I like to listen to him because he is haunest and has the balls to say how it really is with no boundries. Thank you. We need more people who dares to talk about this subjects. Gr Vlasta Leistikow
However, when we do stop and notice the ants on the sidewalk, the ones walking in formation carrying things many times their own mass, do stand out to us.
I've been thinking about that a bit. It's absolutely nuts. It's mankind saying "if you don't do, behave, and think like we do and come to us you do not exist". Just that rule a lone makes the search a huge waste of time. The problem with this science is it has to have the hell hyped out of it to sell.
@@davetuttle9701 The whole point of the “It must repeat” rule is to limit the possibility of it being natural phenomena. It's likely that any species intelligent enough to attempt first contact understands this necessity.
@@denverbeek I understand that and agree. My note to that was on the satire side. I get there is to be ground rules, just sometimes they seem a bit.....off. When you call someone and get the answering machine do you leave a message or keep calling until someone answers. If it's an emergency you'd blow up the phone, if it isn't you'd leave a message.
Light sails are the most practical mode of interstellar transportation that we have thought of...and the 1st interstellar object that we came through our SS looked alot like a light sail! Imagine we find out that the Milky way was littered with billions of old light sails like the old oceans used to be littered with wind sails!
Very interesting but he lost a bit of credibility to me when he was talking about how "we are basically ants, you don't study ants" I'm friends with an entomologist who's dedicated their entire life studying insects. Even if we were like ants to other civilizations, there would be beings who would study us obsessively
There's plenty of ant colonies out in the jungle that have spent their entire existence out of range of any humans and other ants... If one day a human passed by, could the ants ever reproduce any experiment to reproduce the human phenomenon later?
Sharp cookies are secretly genius... Keep people from stealing them by making them with mono-molecular edges that can only be safely handled when milk is applied!
I like my biscuits sharp and my cookies soft I'm from the UK and we know everything to know about biscuits, oh and yeah I think he meant tools ( hammers, spanner's AKA wrenches excluded) not cookies
Wow this comment gets more and more profound the billions of times it is regurgitated. Quantum mechanics? Nuclear physics? Space travel? Nope, no sign of intelligence here. No different than slugs amirite?
I find it quite baffling that such a prominent scientist would use the 'ants on the sidewalk' analogy to describe potential alien behaviour towards us. Life in the universe is obviously rare and precious, we would literally freak out if we discovered microscopic bacteria living on a planet in our solar system.
What makes you think we would be special? Just because we haven't found life doesn't mean aliens don't know we are here they probably just see us as ants
@@Poppa_Capinyoaz I'm talking about extra terrestrial contact. We know how rare life is in our solar system, we would definitely be overjoyed if we ever found even microscopical bacteria in it
To Dr. Avi Loeb...You don't let the mainstream science tell how to think, how to react and how to explore...Good for you, finally a scientist with guts.
Do you think there are Alien Artifacts in our Solar System? Subscribe to this channel and let John know what you think below.
Extraterrestrial: The First Sign of Intelligent Life Beyond Earth amzn.to/2LiIxoo affiliate link
What if WE'RE the artifact?
How would we know when we don’t even know what we would be looking for? Probably all around us here on Earth...
theres a reason this is the only planet weve ever seen that even looks like this let alone has extremely advanced lifeforms millions of years passed being single cellular. I beleive aliens are that reason, we are the seed
@@carlmccartney1025 "We" as in all Earth life, right? All life on Earth evolved from the same single cell organisms whether a maple tree, fire ants, or humans...
Loeb is wrong. Most of the peculiar aspects of omuamua have been proven to be consistent with a natural explanation
He’s trying to sell his book and raise awareness for the star shot
Scientific truth is not determined by likes on twitter. I like this guy, science needs more thinking and less ego.
Can't stomach Twitter and never go there, but I see it all the time on Facebook: Someone deemed an expert makes a remark about some scientific or technical topic. A large number of people find the remark or claim or factoid, whatever it is, appealing or comforting. They agree that it must be right because it just plain _sounds_ right and besides, the guy's an expert-and who are we to argue with experts? Having reached consensus that their agreement-to-agree has validated the expert's remark, the happy customers then proceed to lecture everyone else on what The Science is and if you are skeptical of their opinions about The Science, you must therefore be "anti-science." Any statements by someone deemed anti-science are of course to be discarded immediately. I don't know whether this way of "doing science" on social media is laughable or terrifying. I'm leaning toward the latter.
@@mikearst2940 In general the definition of an "Expert" is as follows. If you are a math whiz, in Algebra, "X" is an unknown quantity. If you are a plumber a, "spurt" is a drip under pressure. Therefore an, "Xspurt" is just an unknown drip under pressure!!! There seems to be lots of these self proclaimed, "Experts" peddling their wares. Maybe these experts should do less self aggrandizing to promote their latest project/theory and more honest searching for the truth.
Then again, there are times when someone who's actually thoughtful makes a remark that is mere speculation, after which thousands of people seize upon it-entirely out of context-and turn it into *The Science.* Or someone who masquerades as a science writer extracts some factoid out of the abstract of a scientific paper, futzes with it a bit to make it sound exciting and sexy in his article; the usual suspects on Facebook or Twitter pick up on it, and shazam! *The Science!*
Science isn't a philosophy or a lifestyle. Science is a process designed to overcome the fallibility of human ego in relation to our perceived reality. The main purpose of science is to disprove subjective conclusions rather than prove ideological agendas.
@@MrRickstopher
>> _The main purpose of science is to disprove subjective conclusions rather than prove ideological agendas._
. . . to which social media replies: “Oh, yeah? Hold my beer.”
I find it ironic that scientists expect to find repeating signals from alien civilizations, but the signal we sent out was not repeated.
Same! Thats always puzzled me.
@@jamesw6371 🤣 very possible
It needs to repeat so it can be proved to be ET. You need a repeating signal so that the telescopes can affirm its not interfefence or produced from a satellite, etc.
@@jamesw6371 touche
Voyager II : "am I a joke to you?"
I like Avi Loeb's point that the force labeled dark matter is highly speculative and could show that something more familiar to us, gravity, is behind it in a way we do not understand.
I've been thinking that for many years, it was nice to hear it from Dr. Loeb.
Yet he spends the entire interview basically claiming we should ignore evidence and skeptics and simply believe what we want to. I am only a quarter way through so far and almost everything he stated is simply wrong and the wrong way to look for new information. He chooses emotions over logic and evidence.
@@seditt5146 I don't recall a single moment where he suggests ignoring evidence or skeptics. He's saying that it's wise to be skeptical but that skepticism isn't about censoring. I also don't think he even once suggests that Oumuamua is artificial - just that's there's sufficient unknowns that it's worth considering further instead of taking the orthodox opinion.
im starting to think "dark matter" is baloney. i think we would have proven its existance by now.
I like this guy. I find the scientific community so closed minded at times. This guy is a breath of fresh air.
if you dont follow the party line you lose funding , its that simple . science has become a polorized political party and thats very sad
He just did an interview on Lex Friedman’s podcast also
@AnotherOne why bring religion into it? Get a life mate.
question dark matter or dark energy and they lose their minds. We're spending $$$$$ on the search and that is paying a lot of payckecks.
@Comrade NB youre kidding? Find a physicist. Tell him you think dark matter and or dark energy are bullshit. Worse yet tell them you think it's lazy mediocre thinking.
Hey folks, a writer going on shows to help sell their book isn't "shilling". They're doing their job and making a living. The idea that somehow makes him inauthentic is just stupid. Is your expectation that everyone in this field should make their research, thoughts, ideas and theories free, otherwise they can't be trusted?
How ridiculously idiotic.
Thank you! There is hope for humanity after all....... i was getting scared, reading some of the comments....
@@alexlance9150 me too :)
Clearly you know nothing about academic publishing. Once a paper is published it is not free to access.
This is one of the huge scandals of academia.
Andrew, arxiv.org/
@@squarerootof2 Rudi Giuliana?
Mr. Loeb is the Prototype of a scientist. Open minded, brave...grounded. It's a pleasure to listen and learn from him...
Sadly, Oumuamua found no signs of intelligent life on Earth.
Oh Snap!
It did briefly, but then concluded the surface dwelling infestation rendered it too dangerous to explore
Speak for yourself😎
You are going to put me in the hospital with humor like that.
It's funny because we are dumb.
The man himself is a better speaker than the guy narrating his book on Audible. I really appreciate this interview.
Why? I love the voice of the guy narrating
@@addamz3277 I think it's just how passionate he is about everything, you know. He's obviously worked and thought through all of this so much.
@@AnarchoCatBoyEthan I totally misunderstood the comment. I thought he was talking about the way john narrates this channel. My bad
Well said
This is the LEGEND!!! John Michael Godier!
This conversation brings to mind a quote from a once-prominent scientist:
"Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible"
-Simon Newcomb, Canadian-American astronomer and mathematician, 18 months before the Wright Brothers' flight at Kittyhawk.
What a typical highly educated dill Newcomb was ...
Mechanical flight heavier than air impossible hey? So the air is not full of birds and bees flying around ?? omg!!
@@johnw.6980Loeb is the real dill.
Loeb is definitely keeping the flame of Sagan alive, "skepticism and wonder." Our species needs more minds like him.
“It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.”
― Carl Sagan
Um... Sagan was outspoken AGAINST ufos and the possibility intelligent life has visited earth. He was quite CLOSED minded tbh
@@user-nw2si7hu3u I have a dragon in my garage right now. Do you believe me? Why not? Why are you so closeminded?
@@CandorHispanus A complete exaggeration like that only proves my point there’s substantial evidence and multiple person sightings and reports that many legitimate scientists and professional trained observers etc are unable to dismiss so your patronizing only proves your ignorance. Nobody makes a point about claims without some substance . Sagan admitted at the end of his life he regretted being so outspokenly skeptical
@@user-nw2si7hu3u Sagan was one of the most willing skeptics to study the UFO phenomenon - so yeah it's good of you to mention ignorance: The Dragon In My Garage is a well known Sagan thought experiment on the validity of claims. The fact you don't understand it is telling. Thanks for proving you don't know the first thing about Sagan's positions, or how to think critically in scrutinizing claims.
I don't expect a source on the vague claim that Sagan "regretted being so outspokenly skeptical" either.
Ok...so Dr Loeb did Joe Rogan, Lex Fridman, AND Event Horizon......in one week?!?!?!
Rock on science man. Rock on.
@@Czeckie so? What's wrong with that?
@@corwinzelazney5312 Nothing wrong with it. He was just pointing out a practical reason for him to be so busy. Promoting and selling books is already an uphill battle. Even more so for science focused works. I wouldn't be surprised to hear him on Frasier Cain or Paul Sutter's channel soon. Still enjoy these discussions anyway. I actually didn't know he was on with joe Rogan too.
Making bank
Book tour
I never would have heard about him otherwise and I find his thoughts fascinating and easily digestible.
"Having an open mind is as important as breathing in this world."
"To not question is to not be human."
Fax
"The purpose of having an open mind is the same as having an open mouth, to close it back down on something solid." GK Chesterton
So... maybe Qanon is true! I don’t have the kind of faith in human behavior these irresponsible twits do.
Except if ur a democrat. Then u don’t have to question anything coz ur always right and everyone else is always racist and wrong.
An open mind is one thing, but the chances of detecting a planet that is currently, or depending on the distance, in the past few years or centuries,
A) has fossils,
B) Had an event that turned those fossils into carbon
C) has an intelligent life form capable of burning those for fuels
D) is burning them to the point where they are detectable as CFC's...i think are next to nothing and not worth wasting telescope time or money.
I preordered Professor Loeb’s book last week after hearing his interview on Lex Fridman’s podcast. Fascinating, John. I appreciate your perspective and line of questioning. Thank you for having him.
Yo, can you tell me where you preordered it at?
Cody a preorder link is in the description and in the pinned comment above.
Same here. Can't wait until the book arrives in the mail.
@@EventHorizonShow appreciate it
Man this guest is absolutely fantastic why have I never heard his perspective and opinions before now? I have ADHD and struggle to take in information but this guy is so easy to listen to it's great. Thank you for this conversation.
@Alex Clark I also have ADHD. If you watch UA-cam on a smart phone (iPhone, Android) or a tablet (iPad), tap the left side of the video twice in quick succession to rewind the video 10 seconds. Tap 4 times to rewind 20 seconds, and so on. Fairly often, I'll be watching a video then miss a section because my mind went off on a random digression. That quick rewind feature is awesome for people like us.
Ari Loeb has been right from Day 1.
22 minutes in and I found my favorite contemporary scientist : Avi Loeb. I believe they should teach everyone from young age scientific method and scientific thinking.
I agree, and this isn't it. You don;t start with a conclusion.
@@Mozart1220 It isn't a conclusion, and that isn't the point. Avi's entire philosophy is to not be afraid of straying from the status quo. He is the embodiment of thinking outside the box. The point of this is just to get people, especially established scientists, to just _THINK!!!_ And not to immediately reject a hypothesis or to _wish the weird situations away_ for the sake of simplicity. That's all he's doing here.
And as far as I'm concerned, we need way more people like him than not, especially in STEM.
Sounds like a conclusion to me dawg
@@realzachfluke1 You’ll never get people to think under capitalism and religion. Get rid of those first.
22:30 stops complaining and starts talking science
33:10 starts talking about Oumuamua
You the MVP
Thank you
Thanks. That saved me listening to Loeb drivel.
But he made a very valid point, so i understand why he is complaining. And those same type of issues can be seen everywhere in our society...
Thank you.
"Why bully anomalies?" is a question science really does need to ask itself. It really shouldn't be the problem it is.
In the early 80s the British historian Hugh Trevor-Roper noted that the same attitude was prevalent amongst historians specialising in WW2.
@@georgegrogee5991 In what way?
Honestly its probably because they overdid their optimism in the 20th century with thinking Venus and Mars had Earth level biospheres and the crazies that believe aliens are flying around engaging in an alien anal fetish.
I think the best explanation is that, at an individual level, there's a great aversion to being seen as "a Kook". Nobody (or at least, nobody who wants to retain status as a "respectable scientist") wants to be the "crazy hair aliens guy". (I know you know who I mean, and if you Google that exact phrase, the first five hits will all be him, which makes my point.) This is similar to, if a bit more pointed but less cynical than, Dr. Loeb's answer about fear of loss of job opportunities, etc.
@@voidstarq Oh No! Not Giorgio! Don't see it. Who wouldn't want to be Galileo! Remembered for centuries after his death. Bit of a drag having to go through the house arrest by the Church.
Everyone says “ Life as we know it “ well what about the possibility of life completely different to us? Like life that doesn’t need oxygen or water ?
It’s very possible. We don’t know what to look for though so we look for life as we know it
Like life which breathes hydrogen for instance. The possibilities are endless :)
That is simply not likely to exist. There are no other good candidate substances. You could have robots but there's no means of them being brought about except by other life such as the warm squishy water based oxygen using ones.
@@medexamtoolscom the universe is infinite and so are the possibilities. Have you ever thought of a completely different concept? A concept that isn’t governed by our laws of physics? Life that has no need for water or oxygen. Maybe another type of life that is the negative to our positive ?
@@zarbon85mck53 open mind is what you are trying to say 😂 no one knows so its a bit ignorant to say it's not possible 😉
The truth is always the thing that we should strive for as an intelligent species, no matter how unapproachable or unacceptable it seams at times.
It was a privillege to listen to Dr. Avi Loeb!
All the best with the future endeavours!
I wish all audio books were narrated by you
I was literally just having a conversation about audiobooks. And I was like. I need to go listen me some JMG for a pleasant audio experience and here I am.
Mr Godier is definitely a member of the league of pleasingly voiced gentlemen. Other members I’d include would be Isaac Arthur, Parallax Nick, and Sir Richard Burton.
He's an ideal narrator for sure.
dttv and Viper tv would be awesome
mindfulness narration also
Exceptionally profound and apt presentation/argument John! Such a treat to have Dr Avi Loeb on your show to discuss the extraordinarily curious topic of 'Oumuamua.
I greatly admire Dr Loeb's attitude and philosophy towards science in general, and he's 100% correct: science should be about remaining open-minded enough to approach everything unknown, and to treat everything as possible until absolutely, unequivocally, proven otherwise. Over the past years I've been an amateur archaeologist with a heavy emphasis on research and patterns in stonework. And as a someone who now enters into formal education to pursue a degree in anthropology, I've noticed Dr Loeb's comments regarding the politicisation of academia to be especially apt. There is increasingly compelling evidence to support the theory that there was once advanced civilisation on Earth long before our current paradigm, only for it to be immediately and outrightly refuted by academics based purely on the idea that its contrary to everything they were taught many decades ago. As a long-time student of history and philosophy, I've also noted that humankind as a species tends to be reactive and immediately adverse (hostile) to anything that challenges a group or individuals paradigm and ideology, and in many regards I would argue that it is ideology that is the root cause of resistance to open-mindedness and exploration of new ideas... even if there is corrobarating evidence to suggest one should look deeper.
Thoroughly enjoyed this presentation and I look forward to future presentations on this topic, or with Dr Loeb in general. Namaste ✌
I enjoyed your comment, thank you :)
Can someone explain why SETI requires the signal to repeat? We sent out the Arecibo message in 1974. Once. By SETI's own standards our signal would be dismissed because it didn't repeat.
because repeatable results is literally the base of all science. go back to school where they should teach you that emanating techno signatures of a civilization is not even comparable to a clearly targeted, encoded signal that wouldnt need repeated because anyone smart enough to read radio waves would understand immediately that the Arecibo message is is not natural and would need to be created by intelligence.
we also give off an insane amount of noise in space, our techno signatures beam everywhere from us. not hard to find. if they needed a second ping it wouldnt be hard to trace where the Arecibo came from and find evidence of us.
lastly, we probably dont really want to be found first....
The Arecibo message was more of a symbol
@@olbluelips couldnt agree more but if someone is picking up and monitoring radio waves, you cant deny it is impossible not to notice it.
btw, i think it was a dangerous idea. no i dont believe in alien invasions and intergalatic civilizations but id rather discover than be discovered.
@@mysticx0 There is no need to be rude.
It's a simple direct question. Are you so superior?
Your answer tells everyone the answer.
Good point. Yes we need repeat signal but here we are deliberately sending out a non repeat signal. Maybe aliens have the same problem of not getting acess to the equipment to send out signals, repeatadly. Also, several signals are still non repeat from the point of view of someone that only manage go pick up one missing the rest. As such a sending need to be persistent over long time. Now try to get access to that use.
It is better to be laughed at trying to take one step forward than to be lauded for determinedly standing still.
This isn't taking a step forward, it's just speculating wildly to sell a book.
@@MrDacedric Right, that's the motivation for getting into science, sell books get rich.
What this conversation proves is that human conservatism hasn't evolved since galileo in some cases. I'd go further by saying that all technology aside we're no different from the average roman citizen 2009 years ago. We still strive for the same things.
Funny enough, Galileo didnt get killed because of his scientific studies, but for his strict criticism of catholic church corruption. Inquisition was okay with his studies but not with his politics.
And we're going to suffer the same societal collapse.
Nope.
@@sarahoshea9603 Nope.
Why I said no? Because there are millions of people thinking like you who will keep an open mind and/or stop human extinction because of not having a open mind. Thats right: Zoom out when you think it's a doomsday scenario.
I have an answer for Loeb's first question, a philosophical one: I'm pretty sure most scientists, and a lot of humans in general, are fundamentally scared of finding alien intelligence because there is a rather good chance that our spices was "jump started", and didn't evolve naturally, and this is something so scary for the current dogma that it's instantly ridiculed and dismissed, and causes everything alien related to be basically taboo. There are so many aspects of our genetic structure that are so cowardly explained away, not to mention the extreme difficulty for complex biological life to grow and prosper in an environment that is constantly destroyed by interstellar cataclisms, seen how long evolution takes, that the idea that an advanced race could help the development of intelligent life when they find the chance to do so is rather logical if you rid yourself of sterile skepticism and taboo. Also to consider for the search of extraterrestrial life, is that it doesn't necessarily needs to meet our standards, and complex life could be found in a lot more diverse environments, and if carbon based, oxigen breathing life was found, it doesn't necessarily has to be technologically advanced, in fact advanced technology could very well be the real rarity in the universe, and complex life very common.
This said, Loeb is right on so many points towards academia, but too is still attached to old ideas and dogmas, although I'm sure that given the chance he is one that would change his mind.
I fell into the Event Horizon several minutes after falling into my bed, in my world they are both intricately connected.
There's a storm pushing through the valley which eerily compliments this video.
For a strange reason that I don’t understand your comment resonates with me
You should write
Every time I fall into the event horizon... I become spaghettified
@@evdonkbuster if you can't understand then you're one of those silly cookies. It's because you also sleep watching aliens and ufo stuff. As do I. :)
"I call it social distancing at the cosmic scaIe."
Love this guy! I wish more mainstream scientists were like him.
I don't. There's something off about him
@@planetoftheatheists6858 I would have thought you'd love his "we're not special and all came from soup" philosophy.... or am I reading too much into your choice of username?
@@planetoftheatheists6858 nobody asked you to😂
Avi is by far your most interesting guest. Have him on more
He will be back, be sure to watch our previous episodes with him.
Fermi’s paradox isn’t that they haven’t visited but that there appears to be no evidence that they exist. No visitors, no radio, no light, no stellar side effects.
The best counter is that we haven’t looked hard enough yet. The longer and harder we look without finding something definitive the more paradoxical
It's an optical illusion. The sun and moon aren't the same size, are they?
@@remiscott9843 what’s an optical illusion?
I hope more of mainstream science follows Dr. Loeb’s lead. He’s really changing the stigma from ridicule to a more serious, exploratory type of attitude. Please keep it up 👽👽👽
It’s so satisfying to hear someone else discredit Fermi’s “paradox” as it recently became a more popular subject.
There are a handful of colorful videos talking about how we *should* be able to detect aliens by now, when we can’t even visually identify a rock in our own solar system or the potential planets in the NEAREST solar system to us.
What an asinine thing to expect to find aliens in our galaxy of 100+ billion stars, where so far, we have only confirmed and recorded a few hundred planets.
More recent estimates put the star count at around 400 billion for the Milky Way, but I've heard a wild range thrown out by various people on TV, and the confirmed exoplanet count is now several thousand, with many thousands more candidate systems that will likely be confirmed once the data is crunched from the unprocessed Kepler data sets, plus the new TESS data sets.
@@dbjt6466
The point of the paradox is that it isn't a paradox in the first place.
Enrico Fermi didn't develop the thought experiment beyond the embryonic stage because 1, he wasn't interested in actually finding an answer to it, and 2, if he and his colleagues had ran the thought experiment to its natural conclusion, it would've been too humbling to his ego, and to that of all of the other scientists he proposed the "paradox" to.
The realization that we are still quite primitive as a species when you can imagine other civilizations that possibly could have been around for billions of years and have technology that we can't even begin to fathom, yet we have the hubris to believe that we will detect an advanced technological civilization by "eavesdropping" in on their radio transmissions is a laughable and rather embarrassing prospect.
Even IF we did pick up a confirmed radio transmission from another star system outside of ours, it would be big news, but it would ultimately not lead to any kind of meaningful contact between our civilizations, depending on how far away the signal originated.
If it was from a nearby system, we would have to assume that their civilization was roughly at the same level of progress as our own, give or take a century or two, and communication between civilizations would be limited to radio contact that took whatever time relative to their distance was from us to go one way, and then wait an equal time for a reply back.
If the origin of the signal was more than say 50-100 light years away, meaningful two way communication becomes impractical by current communication standards, and anything can happen to a civilization in that span of time to make it such that either they advance beyond the current standard, or they wipe themselves off the face of the planet with conflict.
Civilization can be a very fragile thing to maintain even if you simply look back at our ancient history, and even evidence that is being discovered from prehistory.
@@dbjt6466
It isn't a paradox, it's a false dilemma.
That's the point.
@@dbjt6466
They have already been here, and continue to come to this planet.
If the craft that we have unimpeachable evidence for aren't of extraterrestrial origin, then the governments of this planet have been ruining humanity and the planet all for a bizarre and petty corporate and political gamesmanship that benefits no one in the end.
@@dbjt6466
That's exactly my point.
We have a MOUNTAIN of evidence that has been painstakingly collected by very diligent people for the last nearly 7 decades, yet no one, including you, has the faintest clue what I'm talking about.
J. Allen Hynek was a preeminent scientist brought on by the U.S. government to help debunk the UFO phenomenon because he was one of the most hardline skeptics of his day, but by the time his contributions on these government projects ended, he was convinced that we were dealing with remotely piloted craft at the very least, or craft piloted by beings at the most, that had their origins found outside of our solar system.
We have thousands of photographic, videographic, and most importantly, physical MATERIAL evidences that prove that extraterrestrials, or at the very least, physical craft operated remotely by extraterrestrials, have been carrying out operations of unknown intent for at least the better part of the past century, and perhaps even further back in our history.
We have materials related to various crafts that either crashed by accident, or were forced down by fighter jets that are now housed in laboratories that possess metal alloys and construction methods that we have only begun to start understanding as of this decade, and many of these materials were recovered from crash sites dating back as far as the Roswell incident.
The technology in terms of both materials science and physics defying performance capabilities far outstrips anything that humans have ever made, including the very best that private industry and military funding currently has on the back burner just waiting for the necessity to be used.
So that is what is meant by various governments of the world. I'm not talking about Burkina Faso or Venezuela, I'm talking about the world power governments, and what they could possibly bring to the table technologically.
It pales in comparison to what we have documented that these extraterrestrial powers that be can put into any airspace in the world at will and not be bothered in the slightest by our best defenses and countermeasures.
there isnt 5 minutes that goes by in this interview that avi doesnt say something that everyone needs to hear.
either because its amazing and new, or old and forgotten.
Whatever dude this guy avi is one of the most annoying guests we have had
There seems to be an inherent contradiction in the view that 'we are not interesting enough' to bother making the effort to visit us directly, and at the same time promote searching for the leftovers of efforts to directly explore Earth and its near vicinity.
Despite that, he makes a very cogent argument for Oumuamua's potential alien origin, and the scientific establishment's self-serving, willful small-mindedness. We need more scientists with Prof. Loeb's approach to scientific investigation
The Mantra science should repeat before and after every endeavor:
“We Only Know What We Think We Know”
Which is nothing
Thank you Professor Loeb for taking a leap forward instead of merely a jump. I have been eagerly awaiting my pre-ordered copy of your book for months and my excitement builds each day.
Dr. Avi Loeb is a brave open minded intellectual.
Respect!
Great interview! I love Dr. Loeb his enthusiasm and love for science is contagious. I'm looking forward to reading his book. Thanks for the episode!
Such a nice interview one of the best on this program, honest, humble, truthful and beatifullly human, lovely interview.
Screw twatter, and ego. Truth and honesty are some of the ways to find real answers, & possible self-awareness.
Unfortunately, most people lack those and rather spend their lives destroying each other and this world....
If the universe/multiverse is infinite the possibilities of life are also infinite. Basically everything we can imagine probably already exists somewhere out there.
More or less, if you include the time in the "infinity" measurement. There's a lot of things, that is possible, but, not such a lot of ways for them to be possible. dr. Loeb just a fanatic, that made another communism propaganda eat his brains out or he's aware of a bad ways of making money, and ok with that.
@@ResistanceLion What does Marxism have to do with this topic?
@@Max_Unknown498 Absolutely nothing. I think he's just a ranting idiot.
I swear ive watched atleast 6hours of avi loeb interviews in the past 2 days! Hes literally everywhere from rogan to here lol
That is exactly why he's been everywhere..... He is a great communicator.
He wants to sell his book. I am not impressed.
@@6point8esspcee68 He is selling his book, that is why he is everywhere right now, LoL. Has little to do with his communication skills and more to do with his agent.
@@personzorz Cause he has written it and is invited to these shows, why don't you also do something worthwhile of your miserable life?
@@personzorz hope you give the same attitude to actors promoting movies
Protect this scientist at all cost. This interview was extremely insightful.
100 Authors against Einstein. His reply: "If I were wrong, it would only take one"
- How many scientists does it take to prove Einstein wrong?
- Only one, but the Einstein must be old and work on theory of everything.
That's an argument against peer review. Scientists want a consensus among their peers. And it does only take one to show them that they are wrong. I've read 17th century magazines with articles from scientists still arguing against Newton.
it's kind of hilarious at times but it's necessary.
@@a-square4085 I have read 20th century articles arguing against Newton. Some of them were even written by some young lad named A. Einstein.
Or 99 scientists failed to properly critique his work, but the 100th scientist disproved his work.
@@a-square4085 Thanks for bringing sanity to the discussion: yes it is necessary, it may fail sometimes, but as Carl Sagan said science has an auto correcting mechanism. Even Newton had doubts about his ideas. Einstein says that on his "Obituary" as he called it published as Autobiographical Notes.
very few people can direct a scientific interview so thoughtfully and smoothly as JMG!
Avi Loeb seems pretty chill I like how he doesn't care what others think of him when he finds something interesting he is so down to earth 🌎 idk how I managed to miss this interview!
On the hydrogen iceberg idea. If it had a small amount of dust in the hydrogen then as the hydrogen slowly sublimated the dust would remain right? Would that insulate the remaining hydrogen preserving it? Maybe the sun blew off some of the dust covering revealing some bright interior giving the weird light curve.
It’s cool to see you here too Cody! Keep up the good work, I love your videos.
When you getting on this podcast?
It's certainly possible, Cody.
What really annoys me is the acceleration it showed after passing the Sun.
My bet is that there's something wrong with the observations or with the calculations... But if there are no mistakes... Then I'm lost.
Like a space onion
Hi Cody 🙋🏼♂️
I am such a huge fan of this channel. What an excellent guest.
He's fantastic. Check out his Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan podcast with him, too.
I strongly agree with Mr. Loeb. All my life, I kept hearing the "experts" acting as if the Earth was the only planet in the entire universe that could sustain life (somehow, we were special), and now, they waste so much time with ideas like string theory, etc.
"now, they waste so much time with ideas like string theory, etc."
If you wanted to show how low you rank on the great scale of intellect. This was the best way to do it.
Yeah. Why bother asking questions about the nature of the Universe? Why bother looking for ways to marry General Relativity with Quantum Gravity? Yeah. Such pointless questions. This rando Kamelhaj knows it all. We should recognise that Earth is unimportant and stop doing science.
That's you.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames Hey, I'm all into science... that was, before it became politically correct and a pseudo religion. No longer is data randomly collected to postulate theories, now we arrive at theories first whether data supports it or not. Looks like they're pulling your string!
Now, you are the expert acting as if you live in a universe. Can you prove that you live in a universe? You cannot. You can only, at best, offer me an opinion. Binaverses, triverse, quad verse? Octoverse?
In all fairness, you can't even prove that you are currently on a plannet. You could be living on a huge carrot. A few pictures or videos you found online, in other circles could be deemed conspires u theory nutcasery.
Can you prove to me, here and now, that we live on a plannet? See the error of your ways? Now you understand that all you can offer me, and the world is an opinion. Just like the scientists you mocked.
An lying aren't I? Yet I'm right lol.
@@vegvisirphotography5632 I'll put my trust in what I've experienced over my lifetime. Have fun with your conspiracy theory.
I wish more people were like this man. Too many people want to stick to the status quo ko matter if its politics or science or anything else.
I think a bigger issues is scientists can lose all credibility and even their career. Though with guys like this scientists hopefully they will all start to see the merits in this type of thinking/research
“We are not the sharpest cookies in the jar..as they say” 😂😂 Professor Loeb is the best!
It's the Loeb blend of "sharpest tool in the shed" and "smartest cookie in the jar"
I like my metaphors how I like my oil and water: shaken, not stirred.
I've always preferred "I'm not the sharpest lightbulb in the underwear drawer."
Your cookies are sharp ? jesus . I mean hes naive a bit. Like hes new in all this its funny.
The thought crossed my mind only later that this mixed metaphor might be entirely deliberate for the lols.
Oumuamua may have been our first interstellar visitor, but maybe it's not the only one. I was taking a video of a star on 27.05.19 at 1.20am when I accidentally caught a pointed, elongated object on video. What makes it different from Oumuamua, is that it's illuminated at one end, and it's not an artists impression. An enhanced photo taken from the video shows it in more detail. The video was taken towards the Hercules constellation.
This is probably my favorite guest you've interviewed on the show. As always your continent is incredibly good.
Humanity failed when we stopped looking up and started looking down (staring at our phones).
Keep up the good work. I've never donated or supported a channel before but this episode (as really all your episodes have) earned a donation.
Thank you very much.
The whole thing reminded me of "Rendezvous with Rama" (Arthur C. Clark) and "Eon" (Greg Bear). I am keeping an open mind.
“We’re not the sharpest cookies in the jar”.....lol.
Ironically true.
Or “literally” true, as people love to say.
As they say ?
Uhm no avi its a tool in a shed
Yup we cant even figure out our own distant past.
sharp cookies sounds like painful eat .-)
It's not ironic at all, it's OBVIOUSLY true, with metaphors like THAT.
Thank you, Professor Loeb for pointing out this close mindedness and refusal to acknowledge ideas that are outside of their paradigm.
Science has ALWAYS been guilty of this.
JMG is one of the best interviewers on youtube. Would have liked to hear Avi's opinion on the Dyson dilemma
Dyson sphere
This was an excellent episode thanks so much for keeping event horizon going. Your main channel and this one are my two absolute favorite on youtube. Keep doing what you do I love it!!!
Also you are the best science interviewer, so personable and relatable to all of your guests on the show.
I agree. John helps me sleep
Another question to ask is if it is of extraterrestrial origin, is it possible that this was the alien version of a dog's chew toy that gets tossed out to see how we would react? Maybe they wanted to see if we would physically investigate it, attack it, or ignore it?
Which begs the follow up question, if we fired lasers at it to see if it reacts to light - would they see it as us investigating or as an outright act of aggression? It is safe to assume, methinks, that misunderstanding / misinterpretation are universal phenomena.
That possibility seems remote since it's dependent on two other assumptions (above and beyond the one at hand, that Oumuamua is evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence when this is still speculative) for which there is as yet no supporting evidence -- assumptions are problematic to say the least in science. This possibility assumes that 1) this other hypothetical civilization is aware of us and 2) they are interested in us or at least curious about us. The first assumption is somewhat more realistic than the second, especially since we as a global community have been making deliberate efforts to send devices and signals into space in order to make it clear that we are here (in addition to all the signs we've been producing inadvertently). However, it's frankly still a bit egocentric of us to assume that they would be or must be interested in us or curious about us because we are curious about them. That kind of subjective mindset is precisely one of the things which most often leads to misunderstanding between people -- people understandably want to see themselves as good, smart, etc. but also tend to extrapolate this into a belief that other people not only might but must need and think and want the same things they themselves do when these other people not only don't but don't have to. Since we know that this creates misunderstandings between individuals and groups, there's even more reason to think it would facilitate misunderstanding between two intelligent species -- especially two intelligent species that did not even originate on the same planet! This is actually the position that Loeb himself takes.
Ockham's Razor is a fiundamental, longstanding principle in logic and science...it says that the simplest explanation for anything is most likely to be the correct one. Even if we start from the premise that Oumuamua is artificial, the simplest explanation for its presence here is that it's the result of an accident rather than conscious intent. Again, this is the position that Loeb himself takes. Hanlon's Razor states that it's a mistake to attribute to malice (meaning intent) what can be adequately explained by stupidity (meaning accident). To use Loeb's own analogy, when you walk on the beach and see the bottles in addition to the shells, neither the bottles nor the shells are there as a result of intent -- they're both essentially leftover trash (one kind natural, one kind artificial) discarded haphazardly by different species. Rightly or wrongly, humans have a propensity for seeing patterns where none actually exist...this is called apophenia. Pareidolia is a subphenonemon within the larger sphere of apophenia, and it describes the human tendency to attribute a meaningful significance to an ambiguous stimulus. I think that the theory of Oumuamua being something akin to another planet's version of Voyager or Arthur C. Clarke's Sentinel -- especially when it does not appear immediately obvious (at least not to us!) that it was artificially produced -- is an example of pareidolia combined with wishful thinking.
I did plan on sleeping after 36 hours awake but that headline is just too damn tasty.
Same
Are you ok?
Damn you’re on a good one
Hallucinations will be a good signal to go to bed.
33 hours here. Right on brother.
Real talk by Avi Loeb, guy is a boss. Need more people like him on this Earth.
Damn avi is going on a podcast spree, this is the 3rd new one I've seen with him this week lol
He is shilling his book, that is no coincidence.
Good for him
@@slowburntm3584 he's doing his job, not shilling. Oh no! A writer is trying to sell his book instead of living in a box and giving them all away! Proof that he's not authentic!
🤦♂️🙄
The guy's got a lot on his heart:)
@@corwinzelazney5312 ya who knew that when you write a book you also have to sell it? lol
This is so awesome. I don't know what I'd do without this channel!💚💚💚
What a great talk. I like how he proposes to search for cfc emissions instead of oxygen to determine an industrial civilization on other planets. Thanks for sharing this interview. Amazing.
This guys been all over from JRE to lex Fridman and to event horizon love it haha he’s an interesting individual with interesting thoughts
yeah, already listened to lex and JRE. I'm stuck in a loop.
I think more people have been on JRE than not, LoL.
Not as interesting as someone not shilling for money, but still interesting.
Funny I’ve been going through the ring too
Book tour.
Oumuamua passed through the inner solar system, slingshot around the sun to pick up speed, apparently deployed a ‘light sail’ (as it picked up further excess speed with no evidence of volatiles being evaporated off its surface, IE no cometary ‘tail’ for example) and then shot back out of the solar system. Scientists: Nothing to see here because “it’s never aliens.”
How about it's so slow that it's not even going to reach another star for at least a hundred thousand years?
Mathematical Gymnastics is a fantastic phrase. I must use more often.
Based on the path Oumuamua took through our solar system, what would it have had a good view of? If we designed a mission to check out a star system would we choose a similar path? Where is it headed next?
Perhaps, assuming it was some kind of probe or whatever, it was just passing by to use the sun's gravitational pull. In either case, great question. He should have addressed that.
We take very clear pictures of earth in fine detail from space. Oumuamua came close. Very close. If it was an alien craft (something I do not believe, but being devils advocate) it absolutely could’ve gotten any information it wanted from us.
I doubt, that aliens would wait till her probe is back home, but it also didn't send any information in any direction. Probably some trash out of our own orbit.
I think a big part of this is that modern science has a heavily internalized austerity mindset.
I think some of us are feeling so alone on this island that we are starting to talk to Wilson the soccer ball
IE: GOD
@Chessking Cobb thanks. I've never watched the movie.
@@slappycult91 no
Soooo what if "Willson" got a freand ? Like "SPALLDING" that gal gots a lot ov BOUNCE!! In FRanCe day call dat a "Ma Na Twaa",,,,, or a 4 baller in da South,,,, (any south ,,, Pick one,, South BX,, Soutrh Boston,, Alabama,) Annnd here Iam conversing with my,,,,,,
WILSOOOOOOOON!! WILSOOOOOON!!
There have been several strange incidents dating back decades involving unidentified objects that perfectly match the description of Omuamua. The main one that stands out in my mind is from the tv show called Sightings. There was a russian satelite that mysteriously just suddenly shut down and vanished. The last image it sent back before blacking out was of a cigar shaped object that casted a shadow mathematically calculated to indicate the object measured around 2 miles long...That episode aired back in the late 80s.
we had our very own sighting 9 years ago in germany. it was as real as it gets, with crazy maneuvers and the much told "warping" speed it suddenly just goes into as it gets lost in the stars (or possibly over earths curvature) in a split second ( and i mean the split of a split of a split of a second) ... sure i am just words on the internet. but hey, maybe it'll happen to you one day too.
also dont forget a lot of the famous documented stories. not all humans lie or troll all the time.
"There was a russian satelite that mysteriously just suddenly shut down and vanished"
Link? Source? Anything?
@@gdwnet Like I said, that came from a tv show back in the 80s. So I don't have a link on-hand. I just remember the episode from the series...Somebody might have posted that episode here on UA-cam though...I'll look and see. If I find that it has been posted, I'll come back to this thread to post a link...
@@tonyorob "Like I said, that came from a tv show "
Guess what? TV shows aren't real. Find me real footage, real information - the celestrack number would be nice!
Don't forget to go to Cool Worlds and listen to Dr. Kipping's alternate hypothesis about Oumuamua and his thoughts about Professor Loeb's book. It's very interesting too!
watching this in modern times, Dr. Loeb's words ring more true than ever. we need to be able to discuss all science, and censoring ideas has never solved any problem.
Fantastic interview and guest. Every single video on this channel is gold. Thank you, John!
Avi came out swinging in this one and he's 100% right too.
How this man talk about sense of life and space. Its a very good interview and an eye opener for a lot of people. I think. I like to listen to him because he is haunest and has the balls to say how it really is with no boundries. Thank you. We need more people who dares to talk about this subjects. Gr Vlasta Leistikow
Wow, Avi is on a podcast marathon! Jumping from Lex to Joe and now to John, who knows where he will be next!
neil? na..
you ask the questions I like to hear answered , excellent uploads John Michael.. respect from Ireland ...
Cheers Tony
Dr Loeb and his view on scientific establishment and science is what made me like and comment, outstanding content and visual effects 💯💯💯
However, when we do stop and notice the ants on the sidewalk, the ones walking in formation carrying things many times their own mass, do stand out to us.
We don't notice the ones out in the wild, back in hard to reach places...
If there is one word scientists should be prohibited from using it is NEVER.
and always. 😉
Avi Loeb is brilliant. Really enjoyed this interview.
Aliens: hey earth!
“Unless they repeat they can’t be verified”
Aliens: ..... -_-
😂😂 accurate
I've been thinking about that a bit. It's absolutely nuts. It's mankind saying "if you don't do, behave, and think like we do and come to us you do not exist". Just that rule a lone makes the search a huge waste of time. The problem with this science is it has to have the hell hyped out of it to sell.
@@davetuttle9701 The whole point of the “It must repeat” rule is to limit the possibility of it being natural phenomena. It's likely that any species intelligent enough to attempt first contact understands this necessity.
@@denverbeek I understand that and agree. My note to that was on the satire side. I get there is to be ground rules, just sometimes they seem a bit.....off. When you call someone and get the answering machine do you leave a message or keep calling until someone answers. If it's an emergency you'd blow up the phone, if it isn't you'd leave a message.
@@denverbeek That still assumes that they would think to keep "blowing up our phone" until we answer.
Light sails are the most practical mode of interstellar transportation that we have thought of...and the 1st interstellar object that we came through our SS looked alot like a light sail! Imagine we find out that the Milky way was littered with billions of old light sails like the old oceans used to be littered with wind sails!
Very interesting but he lost a bit of credibility to me when he was talking about how "we are basically ants, you don't study ants"
I'm friends with an entomologist who's dedicated their entire life studying insects. Even if we were like ants to other civilizations, there would be beings who would study us obsessively
I mean yeah, maybe we're like ants, but there's entomologists that venture out into the jungle just to study anthills...
There’s also anteaters that fck their sht up on a regular basis
There's plenty of ant colonies out in the jungle that have spent their entire existence out of range of any humans and other ants... If one day a human passed by, could the ants ever reproduce any experiment to reproduce the human phenomenon later?
@@remiscott9843 dip'idy dope and a theory worth pondering
The analogy is so moronic that it hurts my ears when otherwise intelligent people say it.
but ants dont know that they are being observed ? or do they
"We are not the sharpest cookies in the jar..."
Hmmmm.. am i the only one who prefers my tools sharp and my cookies blunt?
what do you need a sharp wrench or hammer for?
*That one, among other things jumped out at me too! I'm saying to myself, I've never heard of a 'cookie' being SHARP, EVER! LOL*
@@danrayson Ok Hannibal, but the thing about keeping women in jars means that your version doesn't work for anyone that isn't a psychopath.
Sharp cookies are secretly genius... Keep people from stealing them by making them with mono-molecular edges that can only be safely handled when milk is applied!
I like my biscuits sharp and my cookies soft
I'm from the UK and we know everything to know about biscuits, oh and yeah I think he meant tools ( hammers, spanner's AKA wrenches excluded) not cookies
This episode was beyond interesting, so much to contemplate. Love Avi.
Bravo !!!! So refreshing to hear your perspective, we need to be more curious and more humble as a species.
Well said!
"We have not found intelligent life in our solar system." Lol never have words more true been spoken. Lmao
😂😂
And never have i heard this joke about million times
@@andersask5503 Joke?
Hilarious 🎃
Wow this comment gets more and more profound the billions of times it is regurgitated. Quantum mechanics? Nuclear physics? Space travel? Nope, no sign of intelligence here. No different than slugs amirite?
I found your channel yesterday and just... thank you so much. This is truly wonderful.
Kathy Bates character “Why did you come to destroy the Earth?” Keanu Reeves character “There’s nothing wrong with the EARTH “.
I really enjoy listening to Avi's point of view.
His enthusiasm about his work makes me smile.
Excellent podcast. I think I saw all of Dr.Avis interviews elsewhere. I really appreciate his point of view.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Been waiting for this one!
Thanks Cody.
I find it quite baffling that such a prominent scientist would use the 'ants on the sidewalk' analogy to describe potential alien behaviour towards us. Life in the universe is obviously rare and precious, we would literally freak out if we discovered microscopic bacteria living on a planet in our solar system.
Look at how humans have treated each other when new races meet each other and perhaps reassess your position.
What makes you think we would be special? Just because we haven't found life doesn't mean aliens don't know we are here they probably just see us as ants
@@Poppa_Capinyoaz I'm talking about extra terrestrial contact. We know how rare life is in our solar system, we would definitely be overjoyed if we ever found even microscopical bacteria in it
@@swiftheadkick never said we were special.
@Herr Vorragend 😂😂😂 if life wasn't rare, the night sky would be a little busier than It currently is
Am I the only one who's got a severe man crush on Dr.Loeb? Can't get enough of him, Love everything about him. Tell them Avi!
You're the man! 🙏
10:30 "We waist resources in killing each other and not cooperating in our search"...wow, soo true! We are still in diapers sad.
Just been watching couple of his interviews past couple hrs, good timing.
To Dr. Avi Loeb...You don't let the mainstream science tell how to think, how to react and how to explore...Good for you, finally a scientist with guts.