Great video - it’s always good to see analysis of kickstarter campaigns. I’m currently in 2 minds whether to back this project. A couple of things to bear in mind that you may have missed in your video: 1) I agree that the upgrade pack is almost pointless. By the time you spend that much you may as well spend the extra $16 and get the better towers and workers too. The reason why the mountain pedestal isn’t included in the upgrade kit is because every base game of Santorini already includes this and the new Pantheon edition contains the same one. You don’t need 2 of these. 2) The Amazon base game you showed is currently $40. This is a high price. Most retailers were selling this for around $30 with the occasional mid to low $20’s promotion. Current stock levels are low so it’s due a reprint - hence the Kickstarter. 3) The new Pantheon edition and the older version both came with a standard 32 gods. Kickstarter backers will also be getting 4x expansion packs which bring the total number of gods up to around 100. That’s an extra 68 gods (4x packs of 17 - weird number). One of these backs is a rejigged version of a previously released Golden Fleece expansion. It wasn’t an expensive expansion - maybe around $15 (had a Golden Fleece mini). The other 3 expansions are probably just cards and if a similar pricing model follows then I value them at around $10 each. This puts the 4x included expansions (forced purchase) at around $45 total. 4) With the Kickstarter price for the Pantheon edition at $65 and after taking away the 4x expansions you’re looking at $20. Shipping is an extra $9 which is important as I normally get free shipping on my game purchases. This puts the new Pantheon edition at around $29, which with inflation and better quality components than the previous edition; at a competitive price. I think Roxley have put a fair price on this Kickstarter. With the price increase of plastic over recent years since the previous version was printed, I can’t see this new Pantheon edition being available for less then $40 in retail. Possibly some retailer may discount it in a sale at around $30, but this won’t be a consistent or regular price point. I’d be amazed if a non backer can pick this up this bundle cheaper post Kickstarter. As for the Sphinx, I have no idea. I think it’s deceptive to market it at anything more than a solo player game mode. My initial reaction that $49 was insanely expensive. It feels like this should have been a mini promo expansion. Perhaps once a year release 3 or 4 puzzles along with 8x gods and sell it as a promotional item to keep Santorini in peoples minds. If this was a $10 purchase then that feels like pretty good value. As the Sphinx comes with 40 gods and 22 puzzles, that’s a combined 5x of these mini expansions that I thought was good value. That’s 5x $10 which is $50. The Kickstarter price is $49. The first 5 or so puzzles are just beginner challenges to teach the rules so it’s really only 17 real puzzles. It’s probably not a bad price, I just don’t know if I want to pay $50 all in one go. Regardless, paying $18 to upgrade the cards and tokens on the Sphinx expansion is probably an unnecessary expenditure. I think the Sphinx expansion is a one and done game so I’m expecting them to be cheap on the secondary market. As you need the base game of Santorini to play it severely limits your customer base so I think owners will find it hard to move it on.
Wow awesome reply and depth that’s cool to know an even further breakdown of the card differences and value. I completely agree on sphinx being solo. If it did not have the plastic holder book and just had the spiral book or would be so much cheaper and make more since as you say.
I think the original Santorini already comes with the rock pedestal, so they don't need to include it in the upgrade kit. The board is now 3D and the ocean board is bigger, so those are changes, that's why they include those. I originally pledged $1,-, to have acces to the pledgemanager. But apparently they only grant acces to the PM with a bigger pledge to one of the products. Now I love Dice Throne and have been looking for Santorini in stores near me, but it's nowhere to be found. So I wanted to pledge to this, but the total cost, even for just the board games itself, without RotS is just so high, with VAT and shipping costs added. The game looks amazing, but I'm just now sure if I'll like playing it enough to justify that cost. Thanks for making this video though, it does put some things in a better perspective.
So the big problem I have with this is, that as a owner of the first edition I cant just get a «game play»-pledge, as in I get just the god-cards (tweaked and a lot of new ones) and corresponding tokens. If I want that, they force me to get the expensive upgrade-pack with a lot of material I dont need: I dont need the new ocean board, I dont need the new board with the construction grid, I dont need a new box, nor the trays. If I bought it, it meant I would throw away my old box and the two boards for nothing. It realy bugs me that they insentivice to buy plastic and card board you dont want/need. And this upgrade seems so overpriced too. its 16$ less than the whole pantheon edition: So this means the 3D-Rock, the minis and ALL the new buildings are worth just 16$?! I thought about pledging for the Riddle of the Sphinx but I'm so irritated that I might drop that..
That makes a lot of sense. The new cards may not really add that much so of you like the game as is you are probably in an ok spot but it’s frustrating for sure.
@@BadatBoardgames BTW, I just recently found your channel. I realy like your videos, your thoughts are well put together. And you two make a great team! Cheers 🙂
Damn...you're right. They really made the upgrade pack ridiculously overpriced to dissuade people from it. That's no savings for supporting them earlier and it doesn't have the base or buildings
While I like Roxley, their games and game component quality, I really dislike their crowdfunding tactics. I got the game since we have a retail copy, and the synth cards. I don't wish to play this co-op because I have a million co-op games as it is. So we'll see if the PM gets me to get riddle of the sphinx but I don't think I ever want to play it that way
I still feel like Riddle is more of a solo game and I am not sure I would enjoy it co-op. Ya I do think the upgrade kit is oddly priced for what you get I that option. I agree their quality is great though. Since I know they come to retail it really has to have a thing that would make me back during the kickstarter and I just don’t see anything like that in this campaign.
@@BadatBoardgames the fact that the rules are printed on the back of the cards, with forbidden combinations and rebalanced powers is a decent quality of life upgrade for us. I love player power variability, but I hate digging through rule books. We got it cheap retail so it doesn't matter too much, but if I spent more on the Kickstarter I'd be pretty disappointed in the upgrade path. They seem to be charging for the physical process of having a separate SKU, which is fair, but it doesn't offer much value to returning customers. I just really don't like their $1 pledge option being the same as a late pledge which gets them a higher price than the campaign. $1 pledges are great and almost always lead to a purchase. I back their stuff only if I know that I want it from the get go
Great video - it’s always good to see analysis of kickstarter campaigns.
I’m currently in 2 minds whether to back this project. A couple of things to bear in mind that you may have missed in your video:
1) I agree that the upgrade pack is almost pointless. By the time you spend that much you may as well spend the extra $16 and get the better towers and workers too. The reason why the mountain pedestal isn’t included in the upgrade kit is because every base game of Santorini already includes this and the new Pantheon edition contains the same one. You don’t need 2 of these.
2) The Amazon base game you showed is currently $40. This is a high price. Most retailers were selling this for around $30 with the occasional mid to low $20’s promotion. Current stock levels are low so it’s due a reprint - hence the Kickstarter.
3) The new Pantheon edition and the older version both came with a standard 32 gods. Kickstarter backers will also be getting 4x expansion packs which bring the total number of gods up to around 100. That’s an extra 68 gods (4x packs of 17 - weird number). One of these backs is a rejigged version of a previously released Golden Fleece expansion. It wasn’t an expensive expansion - maybe around $15 (had a Golden Fleece mini). The other 3 expansions are probably just cards and if a similar pricing model follows then I value them at around $10 each.
This puts the 4x included expansions (forced purchase) at around $45 total.
4) With the Kickstarter price for the Pantheon edition at $65 and after taking away the 4x expansions you’re looking at $20. Shipping is an extra $9 which is important as I normally get free shipping on my game purchases. This puts the new Pantheon edition at around $29, which with inflation and better quality components than the previous edition; at a competitive price.
I think Roxley have put a fair price on this Kickstarter. With the price increase of plastic over recent years since the previous version was printed, I can’t see this new Pantheon edition being available for less then $40 in retail. Possibly some retailer may discount it in a sale at around $30, but this won’t be a consistent or regular price point.
I’d be amazed if a non backer can pick this up this bundle cheaper post Kickstarter.
As for the Sphinx, I have no idea. I think it’s deceptive to market it at anything more than a solo player game mode. My initial reaction that $49 was insanely expensive. It feels like this should have been a mini promo expansion. Perhaps once a year release 3 or 4 puzzles along with 8x gods and sell it as a promotional item to keep Santorini in peoples minds. If this was a $10 purchase then that feels like pretty good value. As the Sphinx comes with 40 gods and 22 puzzles, that’s a combined 5x of these mini expansions that I thought was good value. That’s 5x $10 which is $50. The Kickstarter price is $49.
The first 5 or so puzzles are just beginner challenges to teach the rules so it’s really only 17 real puzzles. It’s probably not a bad price, I just don’t know if I want to pay $50 all in one go.
Regardless, paying $18 to upgrade the cards and tokens on the Sphinx expansion is probably an unnecessary expenditure.
I think the Sphinx expansion is a one and done game so I’m expecting them to be cheap on the secondary market. As you need the base game of Santorini to play it severely limits your customer base so I think owners will find it hard to move it on.
Wow awesome reply and depth that’s cool to know an even further breakdown of the card differences and value. I completely agree on sphinx being solo. If it did not have the plastic holder book and just had the spiral book or would be so much cheaper and make more since as you say.
In what way are the components better? The buildings look the same as the ones I already have
I think the original Santorini already comes with the rock pedestal, so they don't need to include it in the upgrade kit. The board is now 3D and the ocean board is bigger, so those are changes, that's why they include those.
I originally pledged $1,-, to have acces to the pledgemanager. But apparently they only grant acces to the PM with a bigger pledge to one of the products. Now I love Dice Throne and have been looking for Santorini in stores near me, but it's nowhere to be found. So I wanted to pledge to this, but the total cost, even for just the board games itself, without RotS is just so high, with VAT and shipping costs added. The game looks amazing, but I'm just now sure if I'll like playing it enough to justify that cost.
Thanks for making this video though, it does put some things in a better perspective.
I am glad it was helpful. Can you get it through amazon? Much cheaper but not sure where you are located. I do think this campaign is to high in cost.
Oh nice. My first video watching live 😁
Well fake live I don’t know how to stream
Yet
Great video again!
Thank You Dominik 😊
So the big problem I have with this is, that as a owner of the first edition I cant just get a «game play»-pledge, as in I get just the god-cards (tweaked and a lot of new ones) and corresponding tokens. If I want that, they force me to get the expensive upgrade-pack with a lot of material I dont need: I dont need the new ocean board, I dont need the new board with the construction grid, I dont need a new box, nor the trays. If I bought it, it meant I would throw away my old box and the two boards for nothing. It realy bugs me that they insentivice to buy plastic and card board you dont want/need.
And this upgrade seems so overpriced too. its 16$ less than the whole pantheon edition: So this means the 3D-Rock, the minis and ALL the new buildings are worth just 16$?!
I thought about pledging for the Riddle of the Sphinx but I'm so irritated that I might drop that..
That makes a lot of sense. The new cards may not really add that much so of you like the game as is you are probably in an ok spot but it’s frustrating for sure.
@@BadatBoardgames BTW, I just recently found your channel. I realy like your videos, your thoughts are well put together. And you two make a great team! Cheers 🙂
@@jonaskissling8343 Thank You that is very nice of you to say!
Damn...you're right. They really made the upgrade pack ridiculously overpriced to dissuade people from it. That's no savings for supporting them earlier and it doesn't have the base or buildings
I wouldn’t back santorini. One santorini which doesn’t get played much is enough
While I like Roxley, their games and game component quality, I really dislike their crowdfunding tactics. I got the game since we have a retail copy, and the synth cards. I don't wish to play this co-op because I have a million co-op games as it is. So we'll see if the PM gets me to get riddle of the sphinx but I don't think I ever want to play it that way
I still feel like Riddle is more of a solo game and I am not sure I would enjoy it co-op. Ya I do think the upgrade kit is oddly priced for what you get I that option. I agree their quality is great though. Since I know they come to retail it really has to have a thing that would make me back during the kickstarter and I just don’t see anything like that in this campaign.
@@BadatBoardgames the fact that the rules are printed on the back of the cards, with forbidden combinations and rebalanced powers is a decent quality of life upgrade for us. I love player power variability, but I hate digging through rule books. We got it cheap retail so it doesn't matter too much, but if I spent more on the Kickstarter I'd be pretty disappointed in the upgrade path. They seem to be charging for the physical process of having a separate SKU, which is fair, but it doesn't offer much value to returning customers. I just really don't like their $1 pledge option being the same as a late pledge which gets them a higher price than the campaign. $1 pledges are great and almost always lead to a purchase. I back their stuff only if I know that I want it from the get go
@@nipzie good philosophy on backing their products.
I thought it was live but it’s a live premiere😂
Ya fake live I don’t know how to stream yet