I love how pathetic children disguised as men, react to not glowing reviews of this rather boring, and unoriginal movie lol. I think it was UA-camr Jenny Nicholson caused a poop storm across those awful antiwoke channels like Mauler and Nerdrotic.
0:00 The Start Of The Show 2:41 Bond No Time To Die poster 5:40 Tom Holland saved Spider-Man 9:07 Obi Wan update 11:17 Picard trailer 16:47 Watchmen pilot big fun! 17:30 Martian Manhunter in Justice League 20:33 Birds Of Prey trailer 24:40 Scorcese hates Marvel 31:33 Joker (spoilers 47:47 - 1:06:24) 1:03:24 Letters It’s Time For Letters 1:08:10 What We Reading/What We Gonna Read for Mobile/I Phone/ Android users
This. I also wish my friends listened to it... Mainly so I could stop bringing it up not so casually in conversation. Being a fan of this podcast has really tested the strength of some friendships.
I hate when people say "you can't joke about anything anymore." what about always sunny, Big mouth, F is for family, a lot of modern stand ups? It's all about context.
Any time I hear someone say that I always think about Matt Stone and Trey Parker. South Park has joked about the most horrible shit. Topics no one would ever go near, and it’s usually met with praise.
This review really suprised me to be honest. You guys are usually dead on with my thoughts on movies but lately it's been the opposite. I loved the film. Sure it wasn't the true comic accurate joker but as a film, it was refreshing. Endgame left me bored with the genre. I can see why some people may not like this film but this review was way rougher than I was expecting. But thats the whole point of opinions. Keep up the good work.
It was pretty okay until they tried to tie it in with anything Batman. It really should have been it's own film. But even then I did check how much longer was left a few times. It was okay. I remember liking Taxi Driver a lot though.
ELFanatic I legitimately wouldn’t be shocked if this was a Cloverfield situation where it started out as a different movie then they slightly changed the script to make it fit a popular IP
There is no accurate depiction in the comics either..it's one of the main characteristics of him..there is no accuracy..he can be anyone...he can she too..aka Martha Wayne in the Flashpoint Universe
@@Am-zf3gq The issue is that this joker wouldn't be able to contest with Batman. He's impulsive, but he's not clever. That's why this movie is better as a standalone. Honestly, I wasn't convinced that he'd keep his own mob under control at the end of the movie for more than an hour.
@@LoganBluth I think they're giving a safe middle of the road review. it is possible this is how they actually feel about it but I think that this video is a calculated response to a controversial topic. they don't want to throw in with either side so they're just sitting on the fence. I don't really care either way, but I think that if there was no controversy we would hear something different.
Im getting the impression from the reviews that comic book and DC fans don't like this film, because its not enough like the source materials, which is fair enough. However as someone who is not really a DC or comic book fan i loved!
As someone who hasn't read the DC comics and doesn't know the characters that well, I still disliked it mainly because it was so derivative of other films like Taxi Driver, King of Comedy etc, it tries to present something new and edgy but gives the same disenfranchised white guy incites class warfare story we've seen a hundred times before (while making said man a passive protagonist who is almost completely disinterested in the cause until it's convenient for him), and it has a terrible portrayal of mental illness (never specifying which mental illness so presenting an amalgamation of several which turn out to be childhood brain damage from abuse anyway, trying to change the way people see the mentally ill but actually using the stereotypes of mentally ill people being prone to violent outbursts which is not at all true 99% of the time etc). Other than that it was ok (if a bit pretentious) but having seen movies like Logan and Watchmen years ago I don't know why people are acting like this movie is such a game changer for comic book movies.
drfuzzee yea I'm a comic book fan and I actually like the approach that they took with the character, but I think the reason some comic book fans didn't like it was because it really didn't feel like it was the tried and true joker from the comics, it kind of felt like some guy with the mannerisms of the Joker just set in Gotham and since there isn't really an origin of the Joker in the comics most people were looking at this movie as sort of a pseudo joker origin and were disappointed. In my opinion by itself the movie was great, predictable at times, but still great nonetheless but looking at it from a comic book fans perspective I feel like the movie didn't do the best job of actually setting him up as a comic book character other than putting him in the setting of Gotham and adding the Wayne's and their deaths.
I'm just glad it's a standalone film. This joker is too frail. I wasn't even convinced that his crowd wouldn't have turned on him three minutes after they cut away. As an arthur story, it would have been better with a more melancholy ending, as a joker story, it needed to end with him being more confident. It missed it's marks on both sides.
I thought not being close enough to the source material was only one issue with the movie. Sure, that's a problem and I would say he's never actually the Joker character... But I also felt the movie was derivative, a little dull and pretty predictable. There were a few twists that I liked and some good scenes in the last act but I mostly was just waiting for the movie to end.
34:34 this mason rant got me dying. Ohmy god this redefined the street rancing genre. Then you be like “I didnt see any car chases in this movie”. But car chases are for children arent they? Metaphors off the charts
Thanks for this review, I have only found 2 reviews that reflect how I feel about the movie. So thanks for being one of them. Also you may have to do an entire episode of h8te mail after this episode, except the 8 will have to be an 80. Yhe people who love this movie are quite unreasonable about it.
Jokes on you, Mason. This IS my favorite podcast and I DO listen on the way to work. Wakes me up and gives me the positive vibes to deal with my dick of a boss.
The rant at the end of Joker wasn't Arthur whinging about petty things like "Kids stealing his sign", the whole film was about mental illness and how people abandon the mentally ill and what happens when someone who has been abandoned turns violent. It seems like you guys just had a bone to pick with this film prior to seeing it, you brought up all of the Media talking points, like the colour of his skin and Incels. The colour of Arthur's skin is never mentioned in the film and him being an "Incel" is never mentioned, so you guys obviously decided to highlight the same talking points as the Media (who have been instigating and setting the stage for a Mass Shooting to take place at a Joker screening for three weeks now). Also I'd much prefer if DC went this route with their films from now on, as the DLCEU was embarrassingly bad and after 6 years of them constantly putting out movies within the DLCEU, not a single film has been even remotely good. The MCU has run it's course and ended with Cap and Tony, so it will be refreshing if comic book movies move away from the mindless spectacle of the MCU and moved towards smaller stories. As I can go the rest of my life without ever having to sit through another 30 minute long CGI battle where characters are immune to damage and undercut all the tension by spitting out Pop Culture references and everyone talking like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
"It seems like you guys just had a bone to pick with this film prior to seeing it" exactly how I felt about their review but I couldn't put it to words haha
My issue with the movie is that it seems utterly embarrassed to be a comic book movie. Look at LOGAN for example. That was definitely Mangold and Hugh Jackman going for a more “art house” CBM but it still *looked* and *felt* like a Wolverine movie. This just feels like some Oscar bait, Scorsese homage flick they just made about The Joker for marketing purposes.
The director said he tricked the studio into letting him make a real movie by calling it Joker. It dose not want to be, and is not a comic book movie. And I really liked it.
Tim Dolan it is a comic book movie. By definition. It’s about the most popular comic book villain ever, the Wayne’s are in it, it’s set in Gotham City. Also how is this a “real movie”? The only real movies are called documentaries lol. Todd Phillips is just a clown
Hey! Torres Here yeah, they like mediocre work. They love to remind people how much they love Last Jedi and other trash. Can’t respect or trust their opinion anymore.
@@splitint3021 You can't respect an opinion of a movie? Has society fallen that low. Scorsese said Marvel movies (by extension DC) are not real movies but Theme Parks. Do you respect the maker of Taxi Driver? Their rating system is a joke about rating systems. Relax.
They like the Last Jedi? this review makes so much sense now. Ill save everyone some time and go watch the critical drinker review of Joker. Its spot on
I train delivery drivers for a global logistics company and we train 9 & 3 for steering wheel hand position due to air bags. 10 & 2 + airbag can mean you hit yourself in the face when it deploys.
I agree with Mason and James about Joker. I feel like this movie was more a movie about how he got the name Joker. It doesn't show really anything else about how Joker became the craziest and most feared criminal in Gotham. I don't see Author as any kind of threat to future Batman. I just see him as someone who needs help. Like I really think that if someone was to take a few minutes and talk to Author they could help change his mind and convince him to get help.
On James and masos comments on Todd Phillips view on comedy. I think offensive comedy does still have a place in polite *bloody PC gone mad m8* society. Even if some groups have been marginalised, they still exhibit trends which are relevant to bring up, with the humour breaking down the metaphorical elephant in the room. E.g. Jim Jeffries on gun control, bill burr talking about his wife, Joe Rogans podcast, Dave chappelle on cancel culture.
Get ready for all the #h8mailbutthehatehasaneightinit from this review. Lol......sorry that's just me uncontrollably laughing in an uncomfortable situation. Please excuse me as I go wash my mother and dance. Feel bad for me.
Totally with you guys. I love Joaquins performance and a lot of things about it, but very predictable and heavy handed. Also, not comicbook like at all. Probably B+ tho
I was listening to this podcast while I tried to lift weights at home and when you guys started going "AYE AYE AYE" at the start I laughed and it made me drop a weight on my floor and my downstairs neighbours gave me a noise complaint. Real nice, guys. Real nice.
I have a really long ending theory about Joker so beware spoilers So throughout the movie we only see solid evidence of three things making Arthur really happy, first we hear him say that he was happier being locked up in Arkham Asylum and secondly we see him happy while running from the police after killing Randall, he's smiling the whole time and smiles and dances when the cops get beaten up, he is also happy in his delusions with Sophie, completely bending his perception of events around him even. Secondly I just want to remind everyone, admittedly unneccesarily, of the line "This whole time I thought my life was a tragedy, turns out it's a fucking comedy." We also see throughout the movie that when Arthur is unhappy or someone else is he takes his fingers and forces a smile onto his/their face. Now in the end of the movie we see everyone cheering for Arthur, the city burning, basically Arthur has everything he ever wanted. He has love, attention, fame, the destruction of the very city that he feels has been wronging him and more yet he still reaches up and forces a smile on himself. We then see the crowd and the Joker one last time, fade to black and then to Arkham. My theory is that in that moment when Arthur finally achieves his dream and gets everything he wants in life he feels empty, nothing changes, he still feels horrible, he still hates life, he feels like the same old Arthur Fleck and in that moment he has one more delusion. He imagines that he's back being held in Arkham that he's able to genuinely laugh finally at the grandest joke of all, his life. He thinks of the fact that he has everything he ever wanted and that life is perfect for him but he hates it, there is no happiness for him, his life IS a comedy. She asks him what he's laughing about and he says just a joke he thought of, he then thinks of the real events that have played out in his life, she asks what and he says you wouldn't get it because nobody else would in his mind, he has everything and feels empty. He then walks out in full handcuffs, locked, it would seem, once again in Arkham and he runs trailing bloody footprints only to be chased, seemingly endlessly, by two men. His only genuinely happy moments in his life are being blended together in one big delusion, he finally achieved everything and he's not happy he just wishes he could be happy again which he knows will never happen. Just being back in Arkham and being chased and feeling alive and like he exists is his new delusion of "grandeur" his new "happy place" is just how things were when he was happy.
I thought it was very good, but I couldn't fall in love with it, not a game changer. I had a couple of criticisms but not one of them line up with the criticisms in this video
The film holds less rigidly under repeat viewing, the plot is paper thin... it’s not a bad film but it is largely predictable and the major twist turns out to be redundant. Phoenix and Philips comments in interviews show that they don’t really understand the character. That being said - it’s an enjoyable film in many respects... Phoenix pulls in a really entertaining performance and the grotty look of Gotham city is impressively executed. It just as a film doesn’t seem to really understand what it is. It’s an interesting film about a man with mental illness... it’s a modern retelling of Falling Down. But it’s not a Joker movie.
Forgot the part when he kills the one fat clown and then you watch the dwarf go for the lock on the door and he has to continue to cower and ask Flek to unlock the door for him. I think the movie may have felt dry after not too long trying to drive home, by the way his life is still shit. However i don't think that anyone's mind should be vastly swayed one way or the other just because it is or is not loosely based in a comic environment. The one thing that did seem even worse, was the fact that the clown army saving him and supporting him... was just happening because we knew it was going to happen, and they showed some clown masks before. show more side characters maybe, i don't know.
They already didn't like it when they hadn't even seen it which is kind of lame Edit: Upon rewatch (of the movie) I understand the problems that they had with the movie. Those didn't really bother me as much as them I guess.
Honestly I’m so happy to finally hear somebody not obsess over this movie. I saw it and thought it was pretty meh, and I really thought people at large would hate it. I was shocked to hear everyone liking it so much.
@Dread Pirate Roberts OR you have no idea what "shit" he's lived through and he simply has a different, but equally valid opinion, to yours and that's fine...?
@Dread Pirate Roberts Funny that you end with "Don't get so worked up over it" when you seem pretty agitated yourself.I myself, however, DO enjoy getting worked up over things and not letting them go because I'm a fan of lively online debate. To answer your questions: 1) I came to his defense because I always prefer to err on the side of kindness and empathy rather than belittling others with condescending statements about their sheltered lives, because everyone DOES have difficult shit they're going through. 2) I realise your comment was directed towards Michael Jeffries, but this is a public discussion forum so why would you make a comment yourself on this platform if you didn't want others to see it and give their takes? Also, if you aren't interested in my opinion, why would you think Michael Jeffries is interested in yours...? 3) Why are all opinions not equally valid? No-one owes anyone else automatic deference, regardless of how expert or ignorant they are in a given subject. In a public forum such as this everyone gets to state their opinion and then every individual gets to decide with whom they agree. 4) You are correct, I don't have the greatest command of the English language, but I structured my reply as a question in the hopes that you would not feel attacked by it and therefore be more likely to soften your stance and show a greater degree of empathy towards the original commenter. Since I so obviously failed, I apologise most sincerely for my dreadful diction and limited loquaciousness. :)
@Dread Pirate Roberts Fun fact: Hindu cows are extremely stressed out all the time due to starvation and neglect. Hindus believe they should not interfere with cows AT ALL because they are sacred to Vishnu who watches over and protects them, so cattle are left to roam wherever they may (through cities, on main roads, into the predator-infested wild) and fend for themselves, leading to them frequently suffering from hunger, emaciation and disease, before they succumb to a painful death. So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is..... you're EXTREMELY stressed and worked up! Oh no! Listen, I'm very sorry to have caused you such distress. I realise that while I love getting worked up and debating things online, many others find it too taxing, so I promise I'll leave you alone now. I truly hope you get the help you need! Be well, my friend!
LoganBluth Damn you just got rekt! Also where the hell did u get your info on Hinduism? Its like you half read the wiki article and misunderstood it. A simple google search will set you straight (“cows in Hinduism”) but don’t worry about it we don’t want to cause you anymore stress hahaha
@Dread Pirate Roberts No, no, why are you getting so defensive, I'm trying to be friendly. I'm saying I completely understand that you are absolutely un-triggerable, which is why you have continued to argue with a person whose opinion you claim not to care about at all on the internet, and why you also wrote a detailed, comprehensive response addressing all points in my comments while also claiming that you barely read a single word of it. Your benevolence and unshakeable tranquility shine through in the way you so quickly spring to vicious personal insults, when none have been directed at you, and your immediate assumption of the worst possible characteristics in ANYONE who would have the temerity to disagree with you. Your unending humility and modesty is proven by your need to boast of being worldly and well-traveled while also giving unasked-for advice in the most condescending language you could summon. Thank you for your advice, by the way. Alas, I have not traveled extensively, unfortunately we cannot all be a modern day Captain James Cook, like you..... Ooh, a sudden thought: Perhaps if you shared some of your many thrilling and wondrous adventures in a novel it would inspire others to see more of the world? I can tell based solely on your riveting prose in this UA-cam comments section that you MUST be a writer. Please consider it, the world NEEDS your many insights! Lastly, I'm a little confused that you continue harping on about being triggered and having thin skin when I have freely admitted a number of times that I DO get overly worked up in online debates and actively enjoy the activity. Not sure what you intend to accomplish by repeatedly telling me things I've already stated..... but what am I saying?? Considering the wealth of life experiences and wisdom you have, I have faith that your benign purpose shall become apparent.
I thought the trailers kinda showed entirely what the movie was. The trailer doesn't necessarily give away specific moments but it does tell you exactly what this movie is and what to expect going into it.
William zwolinski shooting on the subway got me especially when it went from self defense to cat and mouse with the limping dude retrospectively its like ya thats joker y wouldnt he go predator on him but on my first viewing i only saw arthur for awhile and seeing his first plunge was surprising af
Spoiler James: "they didn't check him for a gun... That guy could have done *anything* " And he did do anything, he did the worst thing possible. That scene felt contrived. It didn't ring true. And since that was the lynchpin of the movie I thought it felt a little hollow. Most of the movie felt dull and pretentious. The third act was good but not great and too predictable
IniTial91 I feel like it’s set in an era where you don’t search people. Don’t forget that before 9/11 you could bring a hell of a lot of stuff on a plane even
@@Bikewreck yeah yeah yeah. Cause this movie held up a mirror to society and changed cinema and change *us* as a society and wasn't dull or predictable at all.
@@FilmsAreBest you're not the first person who's said this to me and I don't get why people keep saying that... They always searched people. If they didn't, shit like this would happen. They would have patted him down before they let this crazy dude with clown face paint during a clown roit while people are getting murdered on the streets into the building
I do like the show but I gotta agree with yah. If you're gonna make a joker it would be nice if they alluded to how cunning the joker is. Like if he planned the train thing. More things like that. And yeah I couldn't stand the speech at the end
Is the movie Joker really ruined if you have watched The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver? I'm legit asking because I never seen those movies and I am surprised on how much they disliked the movie. I also have the mindset that the movie is the weirdest and realest elseworld origin stories for Joker so I really don't mind the vast departure from the mainstream Joker.
Anggito K Zainul For me yes, it's bizarre how much this movie is ripping off those two Scorsese films but then it's got just enough comic book silliness that it completely loses the authenticity of either of those movies.
Haven't seen either but i disliked the movie. Some parts were really good while other felt like a subpar director expresion his own frustrations through the movie and honestly i caught myself cringying pretty often.
James a heads up, the timecodes don’t line up for the non-youtube upload (e.g. through apple podcasts) due to a 30 second hosting advert at the start Also the letters and what we reading timecodes are swapped 🙃
He said 'For a movie to redefine comicbook genre..it should atleast hold an element of that genre'...Then what is a comicbook genre? Here's an answer..'A comicbook genre is a movie which includes Comicbook Characters'..And Joker did Contain that..
While I LOVED Joker, it didn’t land 100% for me and it is SO refreshing to see someone have take that isn’t just busting a nut to the film. I agree the script was predictable, and I walked out not knowing what overall Todd Phillips was trying to say with the film. And sure the fan theories fill in some of the gaps, but if you need HW to to understand the end then that credit doesn’t go to the creator.
@GiRayne Just to clarify, the song is used in one scene. I think it's just a really strange song choice. Of all tracks from the 70s they could have used, they had to put in the track of a paedophile.
@GiRayne I agree, I know it has been used in American sports arenas for a lot of time. I know that if it was me in Todd Phillips position, I would be pretty wary of placing that in the film. Especially a pretty big scene that you can notice it fully. I do think it fits really well with the visuals but at the same time there is an uncomfortable underlying subtext that comes along with the song.
I think Joker was a great take on what can happen to someone who with mental illness and abuse with a bad day while deciding to become a dance machine which i liked by the way. Love Dance Master Joker. 😂
I feel like something that confuses people about this movie is the idea that you're meant to empathize with the Joker. He's not meant to be a heroic or likable character. Like Travis Bickle he is an inherently broken character who we are meant to see as fundamentally toxic, as are many of the people in those films. This is far more common as a narrative device in novels and short stories that aren't produced by four-quadrant seeking Hollywood producers, or independent fare like the similar Observe and Report
what is more troubling about the film to me is the weird underlying racial politics, though perhaps the casting of almost exclusively people of color in the non-privileged class of antagonistic secondary and tertiary characters is meant to demonstrate the neighborhood make-up of where Arthur lives?
So many of their reviews I've been hating lately idk why I used to love this podcast but it's like were watching 2 different movies everytime, what I see beauty in they just see is silly plot points that wasted time. Fair enough
Jimmie Pitts same here. It shocks me how they gloss over or excuse certain elements in movies or like Last Jedi just for trying but they are overly critical of Joker. I don’t get it but done wasting my time on a show that have opinions that I don’t agree with
@@ThreadBomb then the movie isn't about the Joker. One of the valid criticisms is that its not about the character it claims to be about. Now you say that's not important, fair enough, but I think even if you remove all the joker elements, its still a pretty predictable movie that can get a bit dull at times.
re: Scorcese I honestly don't know how anyone could consider Into the Spiderverse a bad movie (honesty my favorite movie of that year), particularly if they grew up on Spider-man comics, as Marty surely did
I don’t disagree with his comments on superhero “theme park ride” movies in general though, and the fact that they are overwhelming better films and basically forcing them out of theatres, my local theatre sometimes has showings for 2-3 marvel films at once, and some of them stay in cinema for a month or so after they launch, whereas smarter, more nuanced and less generic films are lucky if they make it to 2 weeks. Of course this is because more people go to see marvel films (whatever the reason is beyond me), but I really do feel like better films are pushed aside because franchise films just flood cinemas leaving very little screen time for better media.
LOL! Anyone who says, "Scorsese surely grew up reading Spider-Man comics", clearly has no idea that type of person that Scorsese is or even how old he is. Marty is a life-long super film nerd, watching movies at the theatre was the ONLY thing he did growing up. Not to mention Marty was born in 1942, literally 20 years older than Spider-Man.
i test screened joker and there was a scene of kid jared leto watching this joker on tv and copying him, is what i heard and it got an extremely negative reaction and it was cut in the version i watched
My thought leaving Joker was that Todd Phillips wanted to make a dark remake of The King Of Comedy, but nobody wanted to make it, so he put a popular comic book character in it to get people to buy it.
If people participating in real revolutions all over the world weren't dressing up as the Joker from this film, maybe I'd think this is some run of the mill POS movie that had nothing to say, but that isn't the case.
@@michaelbrice5169 Chicken shits? Disney has made a bunch of R rated movie released under different brand. They aren't scared to make an R-rated movie they just don't want to ruin their reputation as "Child-friendly" company.
@@michaelbrice5169 *You* Says dumb thing *Other person* Says reasonable response that disproves the dumb thing you said *You* Repeats dumb thing as if you won.
I personally agree with the fellas. My main issue is with all the inclusions of the Wayne family. Phoenix was undoubtedly the best aspect and his performance was captivating so I would've much rathered they continue the study of the joker and alluded to the Waynes. It bogged down the movie in the sense that I was constantly thinking of how he was going to be fourty (at least) when he was finally fighting Batman and being the classic Joker. All the Wayne scenes were also the worst aspects (except for the ones featuring with his mum).
I can fully respect if someone doesn't like a movie, and I feel like James didn't really hate the movie, just disliked the most of it - Mason on the other hand really seemed to hate it. With that said, I can't relate to this episode at all and actually felt kind of sad, having been looking forward to your review of this movie. Because I LOVED this movie, Best movie ever - best movie this year probably. And this coming from a full-blown super MCU fan. Everything in this movie grabbed me and held me thight thorughout the whole runtime. The unreal level of acting, the realism of the universe and realism of violence. Just everything seemed so grounded and real it just creept up on me - the eerieness of this unhinged guy. The subway murders was gruesome - probably the most realistic gunshots I've seen in a movie. The soundtrack - I've never been a guy to listen to a moviescore, but this I had to look up on Spotify. You guys said something about this movie being predictable and that you foresaw the twists - I did not let me tell you, and I usually do with movies. This one I couldn't puzzle together at all - all the twists, and the depth of those twists and what it means for a re-watch - Brilliant! The Waynes scene was perfect - and makes me so excited for the future if this movie gets a sequel or is tied in with "The Batman" later on (I think it will). I just sat through that scene with such a huge smile on my face - I can't see how you didn't. Well, with all that being said - Guess entertainment is subjective. Fuck you guys and fuck your stupid fucking opinions - Go fuck yourshelves! Especially Mason - you dick.
Fair enough for those who linked it for the mystery element, there were a few twists that were unpredictable (though some were irritatingly predictable like his relationship with Zazie Beetz being in his head), but I still disliked it mainly because it was so derivative of other films like Taxi Driver, King of Comedy etc, it tries to present something new and edgy but gives the same disenfranchised white guy incites class warfare story we've seen a hundred times before (while making said man a passive protagonist who is almost completely disinterested in the cause until it's convenient for him), and it has a terrible portrayal of mental illness (never specifying which mental illness so presenting an amalgamation of several which turn out to be childhood brain damage from abuse anyway, trying to change the way people see the mentally ill but actually using the stereotypes of mentally ill people being prone to violent outbursts which is not at all true 99% of the time etc). Other than that it was ok (if a bit pretentious) but having seen movies like Logan and Watchmen years ago I don't know why people are acting like this movie is such a game changer for comic book movies. It just wasn't that groundbreaking nor was it a good portrayal of the character or mental health or the real divides in society (conveniently brushing over everything except the wealth gap) so all in all it just didn't have anything interesting or new to say in my opinion.
@@tedwards1025 No, you're wrong. Best movie ever. Because it was better than all of the movies it was based on, paid homage to, or stole from. I could relate to this movie so much, to the character of Arthur. I was just smiling at the end when he finaly rose to the top and became what he was always supposed to be. What an inspirational character. You missed the point entirely. Go watch it again, you must've seen it the wrong way the first time.
@@Kfoglarsson If you could truly relate to him you would know how badly they misrepresented mental illness in this movie and how weirdly paced his character progression was. It didn't do anything new and didn't do anything better than the films that came before it and it's another step back from educating the public about the realities of mental illness.
Thomas Wayne in this movie was actually quite Thomas Wayne-y. He was protective of his son and punched Arthur. A bit unneccessarily violent but this is Flashpoint Batman after all. Some versions of Thomas also show him as a guy with a bit of a shady background. Also people need to stop saying that Joker could just have been a movie about a mentally ill guy. Where's the fun in that? You would be stripping the movie of a lot of amazing elements. Like the uncontrollable laugh. While Joker didnt show himself to be as smart as his comic counterpart, he was a calculated and obsessive villain as evident from the scene where he's rehearsing for the talk show. It is such a Joker thing to want to make his plans (his "jokes") perfect down to all the little details. I couldnt disagree any more with these review.
You could keep the uncontrollable laugh and not call the character Joker. This movie could have been called "clown" and just changed some names. It didn't need to pretend to be an adaption of a character that doesn't actually feature in this movie. And that scene of his practicing didn't show him to be calculated, it's not like he was planning a scheme or a crime or anything, he was just fantasizing about his suicide.
Who said this is Flashpoint Batman...? In Flashpoint it's BRUCE who gets killed and THEN Thomas Wayne becomes violently radicalised. Also, generally Thomas Wayne is depicted as doing a lot of civic and charity work, putting his money and resources towards helping the more unfortunate people of Gotham. It's one of the main reasons Bruce grows up to be Batman - His father instilled in him a strong moral compass inspiring him to be on the side of good and justice. His parents' murder made him dark and brooding, but his parents' EXAMPLE caused that dark broodiness to be a force for good. If not he could have just just murdered his parents killer as revenge and said case closed. Whereas in this Thomas Wayne doesn't seem to give a crap about the poor, insulting them on TV and basically blaming them for their own poverty stricken position. Also, what was the point of punching Arthur Fleck in the bathroom other than to show Thomas Wayne being an asshole? Fleck is a small, emaciated, OBVIOUSLY mentally ill person. If you think he's a danger to your family why not have him arrested for a psychological evaluation. I mean, if you believe that Thomas Wayne conspired to have Fleck's mother committed and lobotomised then it would certainly be in character. Also, YES Joker rehearses his talk show appearance, but he is SOOO lucky in this movie it's ridiculous. Why didn't the cops do anything more than phone him a few times when he was acting unbelievably suspicious and his mother had just been smothered? Why didn't the dwarf guy that he allowed to escape go to the police immediately? If he had there is NO WAY Joker could have got on the talk show without being arrested! There would have been a citywide manhunt for this maniac rather than just the two most incompetent cops in the world trying to chase him down a staircase. The small amount of planning they showed with regards to the talk show didn't remotely make up for him being a bumbling goof throughout the rest of the movie, dropping guns in hospitals stealing case files from mental asylums with the amazing escape plan being "LEG IT!!!!!" And if you interpret it as a lot of the movie was only in side his head, that still means he's an idiot because he couldn't imagine a smarter set of circumstances for all these events to come to pass. Look, I really enjoyed the movie for what it was - A strong, dark character-study about a mentally ill man failed by society. But it was almost entirely unrelated to the actual source material it ported to be about.
I agree with you guys about Joker except for the fact that I don't think this was a good portrayal of mental illness. The example of social services being cut and not good enough is fine but everything else about how it was portrayed just played into the same tired stereotypes it seemed to be trying to avoid. They never specify the mental illness so they're playing into people's impression that all mental illnesses are pretty much the same when in reality very few mental illnesses cause hallucinations and almost none of them cause violent outbursts against others. This is a harmful stigma as mentally ill people in reality are far more likely to hurt themselves than others. It was disappointing for this movie which advertised being more understanding and open when it comes to mental illness (with the whole "The worst thing about having a mental illness is that people expect you to behave as though you don't" line) to then reinforce the kind of stereotypes that make people fear and ostracize the mentally ill and not even address one illness. Then it's revealed that he had brain damage from childhood abuse so you don't even know how much of it is mental illness vs brain damage. All in all it was a very sloppy portrayal of mental illness used as a means to an end for the character, not the shedding of new light on the subject that was promised. Beyond that, the movie was just another Taxi Driver/King of Comedy with very little of substance to say except to reiterate the same wealth gap/class warfare stuff we've seen before. V for Vendetta, Logan and even Watchmen were better comic book movies in terms of having something new to say about society and using the genre to comment on current events.
T Edwards I don’t think he was hallucinating zazie he was just imagining her. Like a fantasy. That’s not unusual at all especially with mental illnesses
@@FilmsAreBest No he was talking to her, so visual/auditory hallucinations. Fantasizing about someone means you know you're imagining it and that's not a symptom of mental illness. If you don't know you're imaging it then it's a hallucination which is a rare symptom of just a few mental illnesses.
@@FilmsAreBest Plus the main condition that involves hallucinating loved ones is schizophrenia, which means that once again schizophrenia is being extrapolated to mean an all-encompassing, vague mental illness and once again schizophrenia is being implicated in violent tendencies. Hallucinations in mental illness are rare across the board and are usually auditory anyway.
This movie really thinks it is saying something about society while at the same time trying to ask what is real. But you really need to have one or the other.
I think Joker was an amazing film, and deals with mental health and such really well, BUT... I agree with you in that this isn't really a film about the joker. It doesn't follow his comic origin, and doesn't establish him as a comic book style villain. Looking at this film as a thriller, I think it was exceptional. Looking at it as a comic book movie, I thought it was dissapointing.
I agree with you except don't think it even deals with mental health that well. Sure it acknowledges the lack of social services to care for those with mental illness but its portrayal of mental illness plays into every negative stereotype out there. It never specifies what mental illness it's trying to portray, but very few cause visual and auditory hallucinations so I guess that narrows it down. Then it tries to say people should treat mentally ill people better and get rid of the stigma surrounding it but then it shows mental illness as a factor in his violent outbursts when in reality mentally ill people are almost never violent against others and this is a very damaging stereotype that often gets them locked up or prevents them from getting the care they need. It just used mental illness as a plot device more than anything, and then revealed that it was brain damage from child abuse and not mental illness all along.
Could not agree more, as someone whos father died because of mental illness i was just grossed out by how mental illness was portrayed. I would sum up how i felt but you have already said it perfectly.
@@corvus2512 Thank you! Mental health is a sensitive issue for me too, mental illness killed my grandmother and has affected my mother and myself as well and it's infuriating to still see portrayals like this today even in a work that superficially appeared to be advocating for the mentally ill in its intent.
It doesn't deal with mental health well at all. He apparently is on 7 different meds yet when he goes off them and starts killing people his symptoms disappear?
@@CallousCarter Exactly! In the trailer they seemed like they were taking a better view of dealing with mental illness (the whole "The worst part about having Mental Illness is that people expect you to behave as though you don't) and a lot of reviews are praising it for looking at how mental illness is treated by society but it was really an undefined plot device in this film furthering harmful stereotypes. I had hoped they would do something more positive with it but when you're making a movie about a villain and he's the one you're trying to make a sympathetic mentally ill person it's not going to be helpful or any different from all of the previous "crazy villain" stories.
I'm not gonna lie, I did not like that review at all. Nevertheless, I'm trying not to be an angry internet person. You have the right express an opinion on the movie, and whilst I disagree MASSIVELY, I will respect that right.
As an individual who has despised everything dc has done since dark knight rises, this was a breath of fresh air, the joker to me posed some interesting questions about how society treats people who are mentally ill, the origin story was done very well, the joker has always been an unreliable story teller so it was nice to see a version of his origin that would be believable in the real world. I also disagree with the wayne murders being the same because in this version the joker was a catalyst for pushing gotham to the point of needing a batman.... I also think that having his laugh be as a result of a form of tourettes was very well done, you guys always complain about how predictable these dc movies are yet when they do something different and thought provoking instead of mindless cgi you guys put the film down for it. Just goes to show people dont know what they want from dc.
But the movie ISN’T different or thought provoking. That’s the issue. The movie is super shallow and the plot is easily predictable to anyone who’s watched taxi driver.
@GiRayne you missed the part where i care what you think, your allowed your opinion despite having never seen the film and im allowed mine. Im not here to convince a random on the internet.
@@TheHolyMackarel i saw taxi driver the week before seeing joker and i would have to disagree, all i know is that dc has been churning out garbage since dark knight rises and thats MY opinion, im not going to try to convine you over the internet why it wasnt shallow or predictable because i couldnt care less what you or anyone else thinks
As for everyone knowing who is spiderman is, i feel the fact they added Talos and skrulls at the end seems like an easy fix I mean petter rocks up then a skrull rocks up as spiderman or vice versa
It would never be that easy without magic or something. Even people knowing peter Parker is close to Spider-Man or can be confused with Spider-Man would cause his loved ones to be in danger just because people would think they’d be valuable.
@@wadewilson8924 what if Spiderman swings in and crawls up a wall and everything and just says Peter takes pictures of him often for a local newspaper, have SHIELD handle the paper stuff, boom Peter's photography gets J Jonah Jameson's attention and he gets a job for the daily bugle
Godspeed and you’re missing my point kind of. The point was that the fact that peter is even important to Spider-Man would put his family in danger. The whole reason he doesn’t want his identity out is because people would want to get people close to Spider-Man. It worked in the raimi films but idt it would work in the mcu. In the year 2000 I could buy that only a couple people Know that peter takes pictures of Spider-Man. In 2019, that shit would spread.
Wow I think you guys were way off on this one! And seriously?? “Worse movie ever”??? Well, still love your channel, but couldn’t have disagreed with you anymore with this film
Everyone I knew was giving the joker 10/10 (I flat-out hated it) and I was thinking it was terrible, a movie being "oh we live in a society" isn't groundbreaking or revolutionary, and honestly, this movie thinks its a lot smarter than it actually is. Anyways I appreciate you guys giving your honest opinion, keep up the great work. #grabdatgem
Thank you James I have been trying to persuade my friends that Joker is not really something to compare to movies like The Departed or American Gangster. Definitely in the same field as Taxi Driver.
I can not wait for H8 Mail but the Hate has an 8 in it. From this joker review.
Theres never 8, but its always hate
I love how pathetic children disguised as men, react to not glowing reviews of this rather boring, and unoriginal movie lol. I think it was UA-camr Jenny Nicholson caused a poop storm across those awful antiwoke channels like Mauler and Nerdrotic.
He dances too much? But he's dancing with the Devil by the pale moonlight
You wanna get nuts?!
Score Piano Covers never rub another mans rhubarb!
39:00 And Arthur’s putting both feet down. On the dance floor. And the stage. And the concrete stairs...
Ok that’s good
Well he does it too bloody much
0:00 The Start Of The Show
2:41 Bond No Time To Die poster
5:40 Tom Holland saved Spider-Man
9:07 Obi Wan update
11:17 Picard trailer
16:47 Watchmen pilot big fun!
17:30 Martian Manhunter in Justice League
20:33 Birds Of Prey trailer
24:40 Scorcese hates Marvel
31:33 Joker (spoilers 47:47 - 1:06:24)
1:03:24 Letters It’s Time For Letters
1:08:10 What We Reading/What We Gonna Read
for Mobile/I Phone/ Android users
zillaking1000 thank you :)
Give this guy an Oscar
Do you want a cookie?
2:09 Mason, this _is_ my favorite podcast
Though it is also the _only_ podcast I listen to
Give DoGoOn a Geaux M8
This Is the only podcast I listen to. Goat Dude and No.1 Party Boi's chemistry ruined all other pods for me
Do Go On has left the chat
This. I also wish my friends listened to it... Mainly so I could stop bringing it up not so casually in conversation. Being a fan of this podcast has really tested the strength of some friendships.
"incel jesus" is hilarious. double thumbs up for Mason.
some of you guys are ok
dont go to gotham city tomorrow
Basically a scene from the movie. I laughed my ass off.
Them: Joker wasn't that good
Me: we live in a society
TJ Gibson Christ I never heard that before! That’s so clever! Lol
Now an ACTUAL joker quote
Upon hearing Mason's Tom Holland impression, I think Tom would be a perfect casting choice for a live action Mikey Mouse movie.
That sounds HORRIFIC
R520 J R horrific and terrific are the same in this context yes?
I hate when people say "you can't joke about anything anymore." what about always sunny, Big mouth, F is for family, a lot of modern stand ups? It's all about context.
Any time I hear someone say that I always think about Matt Stone and Trey Parker. South Park has joked about the most horrible shit. Topics no one would ever go near, and it’s usually met with praise.
Damn, this nailed how I felt about this film.
That’s what we’re here for! The exact thing we want to hear echoed back to each other.
This review really suprised me to be honest. You guys are usually dead on with my thoughts on movies but lately it's been the opposite. I loved the film. Sure it wasn't the true comic accurate joker but as a film, it was refreshing. Endgame left me bored with the genre. I can see why some people may not like this film but this review was way rougher than I was expecting. But thats the whole point of opinions. Keep up the good work.
It was pretty okay until they tried to tie it in with anything Batman. It really should have been it's own film. But even then I did check how much longer was left a few times. It was okay. I remember liking Taxi Driver a lot though.
ELFanatic I legitimately wouldn’t be shocked if this was a Cloverfield situation where it started out as a different movie then they slightly changed the script to make it fit a popular IP
@@reddragon0624 100%, that's the comparison I've had in my head since I saw it. Pity, I think it would have been better not being the joker
There is no accurate depiction in the comics either..it's one of the main characteristics of him..there is no accuracy..he can be anyone...he can she too..aka Martha Wayne in the Flashpoint Universe
@@Am-zf3gq The issue is that this joker wouldn't be able to contest with Batman. He's impulsive, but he's not clever. That's why this movie is better as a standalone. Honestly, I wasn't convinced that he'd keep his own mob under control at the end of the movie for more than an hour.
The part where he said I forgot to punch out was funny to me
For the first time since I’ve been following this podcast, The Goat, Party Boi Mason and I disagree on how I would rate this movie.
I think they're just dancing around to try to avoid pissing off the SJW mobs.
@@Ship-security I'm confused, what opinion do you think they're hiding that would piss off stereotypical SJWs?
@@Ship-security How does SJW even come into the picture on this?
@@ELFanaticThe sjw media has been virtue signalling a ridiculous notion that this movie is about in for incels and will inspire incel violence.
@@LoganBluth I think they're giving a safe middle of the road review. it is possible this is how they actually feel about it but I think that this video is a calculated response to a controversial topic. they don't want to throw in with either side so they're just sitting on the fence. I don't really care either way, but I think that if there was no controversy we would hear something different.
I havent seen Joker yet cause i have no desire to see a humanized joker. Dudes a monster
Yup, the Joker is one of those villains who you just can't humanize (or give a concrete back story to tbh)
"Wigs are eternal."
-Mr Sunday Movies, 2019
Now Maso’ hares Joker more than ever for blind-siding him in review quizes… about Marvel movies.
Early reactions: THIS MOVIE GONNA CAUSE MASS SHOOTINGS!!!!
Worldwide reactions: THIS MOVIE GONNA CAUSE RANDOM DANCING!!!!!!!
Im getting the impression from the reviews that comic book and DC fans don't like this film, because its not enough like the source materials, which is fair enough. However as someone who is not really a DC or comic book fan i loved!
As someone who hasn't read the DC comics and doesn't know the characters that well, I still disliked it mainly because it was so derivative of other films like Taxi Driver, King of Comedy etc, it tries to present something new and edgy but gives the same disenfranchised white guy incites class warfare story we've seen a hundred times before (while making said man a passive protagonist who is almost completely disinterested in the cause until it's convenient for him), and it has a terrible portrayal of mental illness (never specifying which mental illness so presenting an amalgamation of several which turn out to be childhood brain damage from abuse anyway, trying to change the way people see the mentally ill but actually using the stereotypes of mentally ill people being prone to violent outbursts which is not at all true 99% of the time etc). Other than that it was ok (if a bit pretentious) but having seen movies like Logan and Watchmen years ago I don't know why people are acting like this movie is such a game changer for comic book movies.
drfuzzee yea I'm a comic book fan and I actually like the approach that they took with the character, but I think the reason some comic book fans didn't like it was because it really didn't feel like it was the tried and true joker from the comics, it kind of felt like some guy with the mannerisms of the Joker just set in Gotham and since there isn't really an origin of the Joker in the comics most people were looking at this movie as sort of a pseudo joker origin and were disappointed.
In my opinion by itself the movie was great, predictable at times, but still great nonetheless but looking at it from a comic book fans perspective I feel like the movie didn't do the best job of actually setting him up as a comic book character other than putting him in the setting of Gotham and adding the Wayne's and their deaths.
I'm just glad it's a standalone film. This joker is too frail. I wasn't even convinced that his crowd wouldn't have turned on him three minutes after they cut away. As an arthur story, it would have been better with a more melancholy ending, as a joker story, it needed to end with him being more confident. It missed it's marks on both sides.
drfuzzee DC fans are praising it as the greatest thing since sliced bread (or I.e THE DARK KNIGHT)
I thought not being close enough to the source material was only one issue with the movie. Sure, that's a problem and I would say he's never actually the Joker character...
But I also felt the movie was derivative, a little dull and pretty predictable. There were a few twists that I liked and some good scenes in the last act but I mostly was just waiting for the movie to end.
34:34 this mason rant got me dying. Ohmy god this redefined the street rancing genre. Then you be like “I didnt see any car chases in this movie”. But car chases are for children arent they?
Metaphors off the charts
Thanks for this review, I have only found 2 reviews that reflect how I feel about the movie. So thanks for being one of them.
Also you may have to do an entire episode of h8te mail after this episode, except the 8 will have to be an 80. Yhe people who love this movie are quite unreasonable about it.
1:00:16 If you want to see a comic book movie just film someone flipping the pages of a comic book for 2 hours.
Jokes on you, Mason. This IS my favorite podcast and I DO listen on the way to work. Wakes me up and gives me the positive vibes to deal with my dick of a boss.
I will now refer to good looking dude bods as rigs.
I did look around like it was my computer :(
The rant at the end of Joker wasn't Arthur whinging about petty things like "Kids stealing his sign", the whole film was about mental illness and how people abandon the mentally ill and what happens when someone who has been abandoned turns violent.
It seems like you guys just had a bone to pick with this film prior to seeing it, you brought up all of the Media talking points, like the colour of his skin and Incels.
The colour of Arthur's skin is never mentioned in the film and him being an "Incel" is never mentioned, so you guys obviously decided to highlight the same talking points as the Media (who have been instigating and setting the stage for a Mass Shooting to take place at a Joker screening for three weeks now).
Also I'd much prefer if DC went this route with their films from now on, as the DLCEU was embarrassingly bad and after 6 years of them constantly putting out movies within the DLCEU, not a single film has been even remotely good.
The MCU has run it's course and ended with Cap and Tony, so it will be refreshing if comic book movies move away from the mindless spectacle of the MCU and moved towards smaller stories.
As I can go the rest of my life without ever having to sit through another 30 minute long CGI battle where characters are immune to damage and undercut all the tension by spitting out Pop Culture references and everyone talking like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
"It seems like you guys just had a bone to pick with this film prior to seeing it" exactly how I felt about their review but I couldn't put it to words haha
Uh... James actually says in this review "I'm glad they didn't make him an incel" so maybe you should rethink what you've said here.
My issue with the movie is that it seems utterly embarrassed to be a comic book movie. Look at LOGAN for example. That was definitely Mangold and Hugh Jackman going for a more “art house” CBM but it still *looked* and *felt* like a Wolverine movie. This just feels like some Oscar bait, Scorsese homage flick they just made about The Joker for marketing purposes.
The director said he tricked the studio into letting him make a real movie by calling it Joker. It dose not want to be, and is not a comic book movie. And I really liked it.
Tim Dolan it is a comic book movie. By definition. It’s about the most popular comic book villain ever, the Wayne’s are in it, it’s set in Gotham City.
Also how is this a “real movie”? The only real movies are called documentaries lol. Todd Phillips is just a clown
@@reddragon0624 you're a clown
Miguel Castro “We Are All Clowns”
@@reddragon0624 nah its you
I was so used to seeing him in the wheel chair as PX I forget he could walk in real life.
I came here to say I love this film. Also
It’s actually the movie Joker!
"The Joker was okay"
Please allow me to disagree.
Honestly I couldn't disagree with you more. Doesn't mean this isn't still my favorite podcast
Hey! Torres Here yeah, they like mediocre work. They love to remind people how much they love Last Jedi and other trash. Can’t respect or trust their opinion anymore.
Glad they not edgelords who love boring misery porn and think they're so smart for it
@@splitint3021 You can't respect an opinion of a movie? Has society fallen that low. Scorsese said Marvel movies (by extension DC) are not real movies but Theme Parks. Do you respect the maker of Taxi Driver? Their rating system is a joke about rating systems. Relax.
They like the Last Jedi? this review makes so much sense now. Ill save everyone some time and go watch the critical drinker review of Joker. Its spot on
You definitely don’t want to go near the critical drinker
1:01:47 This comment aged very well
I train delivery drivers for a global logistics company and we train 9 & 3 for steering wheel hand position due to air bags. 10 & 2 + airbag can mean you hit yourself in the face when it deploys.
I got taught 8 and 4 in drivers ed
I agree with Mason and James about Joker. I feel like this movie was more a movie about how he got the name Joker. It doesn't show really anything else about how Joker became the craziest and most feared criminal in Gotham. I don't see Author as any kind of threat to future Batman. I just see him as someone who needs help. Like I really think that if someone was to take a few minutes and talk to Author they could help change his mind and convince him to get help.
On James and masos comments on Todd Phillips view on comedy. I think offensive comedy does still have a place in polite *bloody PC gone mad m8* society. Even if some groups have been marginalised, they still exhibit trends which are relevant to bring up, with the humour breaking down the metaphorical elephant in the room. E.g. Jim Jeffries on gun control, bill burr talking about his wife, Joe Rogans podcast, Dave chappelle on cancel culture.
Cancel culture isn't real, at least not for famous people, because if it was these famous people crying woe is me wouldn't have a platform to do so
Get ready for all the #h8mailbutthehatehasaneightinit from this review. Lol......sorry that's just me uncontrollably laughing in an uncomfortable situation. Please excuse me as I go wash my mother and dance. Feel bad for me.
Don't forget to stalk a random woman and then try to get some simpaties from people.
Thank you for point out the computer "bong". I did start look at my phone like it did it.
Totally with you guys. I love Joaquins performance and a lot of things about it, but very predictable and heavy handed. Also, not comicbook like at all. Probably B+ tho
You guys don't know but in florida there was actually a ton of people dressing up as clowns and doing crimes round 2016 lol
It was world wide. Or the western world, at the very least. We had incidents all across Britain.
I just want a great live action Street Sharks movie...
“So here are our guests: this guy we’ve been making fun of… and some old lady.”
This movie is just a joke story Heath Ledger’s Joker is telling one day when he’s bored in Arkham.
I was listening to this podcast while I tried to lift weights at home and when you guys started going "AYE AYE AYE" at the start I laughed and it made me drop a weight on my floor and my downstairs neighbours gave me a noise complaint. Real nice, guys. Real nice.
I have a really long ending theory about Joker so beware spoilers
So throughout the movie we only see solid evidence of three things making Arthur really happy, first we hear him say that he was happier being locked up in Arkham Asylum and secondly we see him happy while running from the police after killing Randall, he's smiling the whole time and smiles and dances when the cops get beaten up, he is also happy in his delusions with Sophie, completely bending his perception of events around him even. Secondly I just want to remind everyone, admittedly unneccesarily, of the line "This whole time I thought my life was a tragedy, turns out it's a fucking comedy." We also see throughout the movie that when Arthur is unhappy or someone else is he takes his fingers and forces a smile onto his/their face. Now in the end of the movie we see everyone cheering for Arthur, the city burning, basically Arthur has everything he ever wanted. He has love, attention, fame, the destruction of the very city that he feels has been wronging him and more yet he still reaches up and forces a smile on himself. We then see the crowd and the Joker one last time, fade to black and then to Arkham. My theory is that in that moment when Arthur finally achieves his dream and gets everything he wants in life he feels empty, nothing changes, he still feels horrible, he still hates life, he feels like the same old Arthur Fleck and in that moment he has one more delusion. He imagines that he's back being held in Arkham that he's able to genuinely laugh finally at the grandest joke of all, his life. He thinks of the fact that he has everything he ever wanted and that life is perfect for him but he hates it, there is no happiness for him, his life IS a comedy. She asks him what he's laughing about and he says just a joke he thought of, he then thinks of the real events that have played out in his life, she asks what and he says you wouldn't get it because nobody else would in his mind, he has everything and feels empty. He then walks out in full handcuffs, locked, it would seem, once again in Arkham and he runs trailing bloody footprints only to be chased, seemingly endlessly, by two men. His only genuinely happy moments in his life are being blended together in one big delusion, he finally achieved everything and he's not happy he just wishes he could be happy again which he knows will never happen. Just being back in Arkham and being chased and feeling alive and like he exists is his new delusion of "grandeur" his new "happy place" is just how things were when he was happy.
This was actually a really good analysis.
I thought it was very good, but I couldn't fall in love with it, not a game changer. I had a couple of criticisms but not one of them line up with the criticisms in this video
Mason's Tom Holland impression makes my day!
It’s hard to ignore this movie once he dawns the makeup so tense AF
The film holds less rigidly under repeat viewing, the plot is paper thin... it’s not a bad film but it is largely predictable and the major twist turns out to be redundant.
Phoenix and Philips comments in interviews show that they don’t really understand the character. That being said - it’s an enjoyable film in many respects... Phoenix pulls in a really entertaining performance and the grotty look of Gotham city is impressively executed.
It just as a film doesn’t seem to really understand what it is.
It’s an interesting film about a man with mental illness... it’s a modern retelling of Falling Down. But it’s not a Joker movie.
Forgot the part when he kills the one fat clown and then you watch the dwarf go for the lock on the door and he has to continue to cower and ask Flek to unlock the door for him. I think the movie may have felt dry after not too long trying to drive home, by the way his life is still shit. However i don't think that anyone's mind should be vastly swayed one way or the other just because it is or is not loosely based in a comic environment. The one thing that did seem even worse, was the fact that the clown army saving him and supporting him... was just happening because we knew it was going to happen, and they showed some clown masks before. show more side characters maybe, i don't know.
I'm always surprised when the mates hate certain movies. I expected them to like it.
I knew they both wouldn't like it. It was obvious.
I figured they'd enjoy elements of if but overall they'd both be disappointed
They already didn't like it when they hadn't even seen it which is kind of lame
Edit: Upon rewatch (of the movie) I understand the problems that they had with the movie. Those didn't really bother me as much as them I guess.
@GiRayne They defo hated it. Especially Nick.
They see subversion of genre and misunderstanding of genre, annoyingly.
Yeah I thought the movie was alright too. The acting was good but it wasn't very impactful to me
Honestly I’m so happy to finally hear somebody not obsess over this movie. I saw it and thought it was pretty meh, and I really thought people at large would hate it. I was shocked to hear everyone liking it so much.
@Dread Pirate Roberts OR you have no idea what "shit" he's lived through and he simply has a different, but equally valid opinion, to yours and that's fine...?
@Dread Pirate Roberts Funny that you end with "Don't get so worked up over it" when you seem pretty agitated yourself.I myself, however, DO enjoy getting worked up over things and not letting them go because I'm a fan of lively online debate.
To answer your questions:
1) I came to his defense because I always prefer to err on the side of kindness and empathy rather than belittling others with condescending statements about their sheltered lives, because everyone DOES have difficult shit they're going through.
2) I realise your comment was directed towards Michael Jeffries, but this is a public discussion forum so why would you make a comment yourself on this platform if you didn't want others to see it and give their takes? Also, if you aren't interested in my opinion, why would you think Michael Jeffries is interested in yours...?
3) Why are all opinions not equally valid? No-one owes anyone else automatic deference, regardless of how expert or ignorant they are in a given subject. In a public forum such as this everyone gets to state their opinion and then every individual gets to decide with whom they agree.
4) You are correct, I don't have the greatest command of the English language, but I structured my reply as a question in the hopes that you would not feel attacked by it and therefore be more likely to soften your stance and show a greater degree of empathy towards the original commenter. Since I so obviously failed, I apologise most sincerely for my dreadful diction and limited loquaciousness. :)
@Dread Pirate Roberts Fun fact: Hindu cows are extremely stressed out all the time due to starvation and neglect. Hindus believe they should not interfere with cows AT ALL because they are sacred to Vishnu who watches over and protects them, so cattle are left to roam wherever they may (through cities, on main roads, into the predator-infested wild) and fend for themselves, leading to them frequently suffering from hunger, emaciation and disease, before they succumb to a painful death. So, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is..... you're EXTREMELY stressed and worked up! Oh no! Listen, I'm very sorry to have caused you such distress. I realise that while I love getting worked up and debating things online, many others find it too taxing, so I promise I'll leave you alone now. I truly hope you get the help you need! Be well, my friend!
LoganBluth Damn you just got rekt! Also where the hell did u get your info on Hinduism? Its like you half read the wiki article and misunderstood it. A simple google search will set you straight (“cows in Hinduism”) but don’t worry about it we don’t want to cause you anymore stress hahaha
@Dread Pirate Roberts No, no, why are you getting so defensive, I'm trying to be friendly. I'm saying I completely understand that you are absolutely un-triggerable, which is why you have continued to argue with a person whose opinion you claim not to care about at all on the internet, and why you also wrote a detailed, comprehensive response addressing all points in my comments while also claiming that you barely read a single word of it.
Your benevolence and unshakeable tranquility shine through in the way you so quickly spring to vicious personal insults, when none have been directed at you, and your immediate assumption of the worst possible characteristics in ANYONE who would have the temerity to disagree with you. Your unending humility and modesty is proven by your need to boast of being worldly and well-traveled while also giving unasked-for advice in the most condescending language you could summon. Thank you for your advice, by the way. Alas, I have not traveled extensively, unfortunately we cannot all be a modern day Captain James Cook, like you..... Ooh, a sudden thought: Perhaps if you shared some of your many thrilling and wondrous adventures in a novel it would inspire others to see more of the world? I can tell based solely on your riveting prose in this UA-cam comments section that you MUST be a writer. Please consider it, the world NEEDS your many insights!
Lastly, I'm a little confused that you continue harping on about being triggered and having thin skin when I have freely admitted a number of times that I DO get overly worked up in online debates and actively enjoy the activity. Not sure what you intend to accomplish by repeatedly telling me things I've already stated..... but what am I saying?? Considering the wealth of life experiences and wisdom you have, I have faith that your benign purpose shall become apparent.
Decided to go see the joker in theaters so I could finish this podcast instead of waiting for it to come out on redbox.
31:37 start of JOKER talk 👍🏼
Comedy isn't dead.
It just evolved.
.......I really REALLY loved Joker......
U mus' feel really REALLY lonely
TGK AFG your REALLY an asshole
“If you’ve seen the trailers then you won’t be surprised by anything in the movie”..... im sorry what?
I thought the trailers kinda showed entirely what the movie was. The trailer doesn't necessarily give away specific moments but it does tell you exactly what this movie is and what to expect going into it.
Yeah, I'm not trying to be a dick, but what surprised you in the movie?
William zwolinski shooting on the subway got me especially when it went from self defense to cat and mouse with the limping dude retrospectively its like ya thats joker y wouldnt he go predator on him but on my first viewing i only saw arthur for awhile and seeing his first plunge was surprising af
Suffer No Fools You’re sympathizing with a Nazi
Spoiler
James: "they didn't check him for a gun... That guy could have done *anything* "
And he did do anything, he did the worst thing possible. That scene felt contrived. It didn't ring true. And since that was the lynchpin of the movie I thought it felt a little hollow.
Most of the movie felt dull and pretentious. The third act was good but not great and too predictable
IniTial91 I feel like it’s set in an era where you don’t search people. Don’t forget that before 9/11 you could bring a hell of a lot of stuff on a plane even
IniTial91 this comment is more pretentious than the whole movie
@@Bikewreck yeah yeah yeah. Cause this movie held up a mirror to society and changed cinema and change *us* as a society and wasn't dull or predictable at all.
@@FilmsAreBest you're not the first person who's said this to me and I don't get why people keep saying that... They always searched people. If they didn't, shit like this would happen.
They would have patted him down before they let this crazy dude with clown face paint during a clown roit while people are getting murdered on the streets into the building
I do like the show but I gotta agree with yah. If you're gonna make a joker it would be nice if they alluded to how cunning the joker is. Like if he planned the train thing. More things like that.
And yeah I couldn't stand the speech at the end
Is the movie Joker really ruined if you have watched The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver? I'm legit asking because I never seen those movies and I am surprised on how much they disliked the movie. I also have the mindset that the movie is the weirdest and realest elseworld origin stories for Joker so I really don't mind the vast departure from the mainstream Joker.
I’ve only seen Taxi Driver and I guess it’s more derivative than anything. Having said that, I wasn’t crazy about this movie.
I’ve seen both. I love both and I love this movie too so not necessarily I guess
Anggito K Zainul
For me yes, it's bizarre how much this movie is ripping off those two Scorsese films but then it's got just enough comic book silliness that it completely loses the authenticity of either of those movies.
Haven't seen either but i disliked the movie. Some parts were really good while other felt like a subpar director expresion his own frustrations through the movie and honestly i caught myself cringying pretty often.
@@CallousCarter I guess I'm going to watch those movies. Really have made me curious
Man I wish you guys did these with video. Best podcast on the net.
James a heads up, the timecodes don’t line up for the non-youtube upload (e.g. through apple podcasts) due to a 30 second hosting advert at the start
Also the letters and what we reading timecodes are swapped 🙃
He said 'For a movie to redefine comicbook genre..it should atleast hold an element of that genre'...Then what is a comicbook genre? Here's an answer..'A comicbook genre is a movie which includes Comicbook Characters'..And Joker did Contain that..
A turd contains elements of food, doesn't make it edible or nutritious ;)
While I LOVED Joker, it didn’t land 100% for me and it is SO refreshing to see someone have take that isn’t just busting a nut to the film. I agree the script was predictable, and I walked out not knowing what overall Todd Phillips was trying to say with the film. And sure the fan theories fill in some of the gaps, but if you need HW to to understand the end then that credit doesn’t go to the creator.
@GiRayne Just to clarify, the song is used in one scene. I think it's just a really strange song choice. Of all tracks from the 70s they could have used, they had to put in the track of a paedophile.
@GiRayne I agree, I know it has been used in American sports arenas for a lot of time.
I know that if it was me in Todd Phillips position, I would be pretty wary of placing that in the film. Especially a pretty big scene that you can notice it fully.
I do think it fits really well with the visuals but at the same time there is an uncomfortable underlying subtext that comes along with the song.
The eyebrows are intense because it's a *Romulan* not a Vulcan.
Shows how accurate the movie is, even these guys make fun of Arthur's life
They made fun of his movie too
I think Joker was a great take on what can happen to someone who with mental illness and abuse with a bad day while deciding to become a dance machine which i liked by the way. Love Dance Master Joker. 😂
I feel like something that confuses people about this movie is the idea that you're meant to empathize with the Joker. He's not meant to be a heroic or likable character. Like Travis Bickle he is an inherently broken character who we are meant to see as fundamentally toxic, as are many of the people in those films. This is far more common as a narrative device in novels and short stories that aren't produced by four-quadrant seeking Hollywood producers, or independent fare like the similar Observe and Report
what is more troubling about the film to me is the weird underlying racial politics, though perhaps the casting of almost exclusively people of color in the non-privileged class of antagonistic secondary and tertiary characters is meant to demonstrate the neighborhood make-up of where Arthur lives?
So many of their reviews I've been hating lately idk why I used to love this podcast but it's like were watching 2 different movies everytime, what I see beauty in they just see is silly plot points that wasted time. Fair enough
Jimmie Pitts same here. It shocks me how they gloss over or excuse certain elements in movies or like Last Jedi just for trying but they are overly critical of Joker. I don’t get it but done wasting my time on a show that have opinions that I don’t agree with
@@splitint3021 Your comment made me laugh out loud. how can someone be this pathetic?
@@ThreadBomb then the movie isn't about the Joker. One of the valid criticisms is that its not about the character it claims to be about.
Now you say that's not important, fair enough, but I think even if you remove all the joker elements, its still a pretty predictable movie that can get a bit dull at times.
its because its not marvel, an over inflated budget, meaningless cgi ,no stakes,and shitty jokes.
@@ThreadBomb It's not a joker movie. They slapped the name on to sell tickets.
re: Scorcese I honestly don't know how anyone could consider Into the Spiderverse a bad movie (honesty my favorite movie of that year), particularly if they grew up on Spider-man comics, as Marty surely did
I don’t disagree with his comments on superhero “theme park ride” movies in general though, and the fact that they are overwhelming better films and basically forcing them out of theatres, my local theatre sometimes has showings for 2-3 marvel films at once, and some of them stay in cinema for a month or so after they launch, whereas smarter, more nuanced and less generic films are lucky if they make it to 2 weeks. Of course this is because more people go to see marvel films (whatever the reason is beyond me), but I really do feel like better films are pushed aside because franchise films just flood cinemas leaving very little screen time for better media.
LOL! Anyone who says, "Scorsese surely grew up reading Spider-Man comics", clearly has no idea that type of person that Scorsese is or even how old he is.
Marty is a life-long super film nerd, watching movies at the theatre was the ONLY thing he did growing up.
Not to mention Marty was born in 1942, literally 20 years older than Spider-Man.
God dammit I fell for the beep on James's computer. Absolutely thought that was a facebook notification.
scorsese watched dark pheonix, i tell you!
But which one? Maybe the two Marvel movies he saw were Last Stand and Dark Phoenix!
@@FilmScoreandMore he saw them back to back!! XD
Everything you listed to support that comedy isn't dead or woke sucks, besides parks and rec and that show ended years ago.
I thought it was good. I suppose because i didn't expect too much from a film about a guy dressed as a clown.
The Two Great Conundrums of Cinema in the '10s -
How Everybody Hated The Last Jedi
How Everybody Loved Joker
i test screened joker and there was a scene of kid jared leto watching this joker on tv and copying him, is what i heard and it got an extremely negative reaction and it was cut in the version i watched
My thought leaving Joker was that Todd Phillips wanted to make a dark remake of The King Of Comedy, but nobody wanted to make it, so he put a popular comic book character in it to get people to buy it.
You thought wrong
If people participating in real revolutions all over the world weren't dressing up as the Joker from this film, maybe I'd think this is some run of the mill POS movie that had nothing to say, but that isn't the case.
Martin Scorsese could lured ito a Marvel /comic book movie if it were a remake of the Infernal since it "inspired" his The Departed
Disney will never ever ever make a R movie like this. Chicken shits
@@michaelbrice5169 Chicken shits? Disney has made a bunch of R rated movie released under different brand. They aren't scared to make an R-rated movie they just don't want to ruin their reputation as "Child-friendly" company.
@@blyzer7373 yeah they will never make a movie like Joker because they are chicken shits
@@michaelbrice5169
*You* Says dumb thing
*Other person* Says reasonable response that disproves the dumb thing you said
*You* Repeats dumb thing as if you won.
Very very surprised at y'alls opinion on Joker. Great podcast as always gents! 😁
Skip to 0:00 for the beginning
I personally agree with the fellas.
My main issue is with all the inclusions of the Wayne family. Phoenix was undoubtedly the best aspect and his performance was captivating so I would've much rathered they continue the study of the joker and alluded to the Waynes. It bogged down the movie in the sense that I was constantly thinking of how he was going to be fourty (at least) when he was finally fighting Batman and being the classic Joker. All the Wayne scenes were also the worst aspects (except for the ones featuring with his mum).
The Bruce Wayne parents thing is more of a Batman as a property problem.
i really zipped around like it was my computer
I can fully respect if someone doesn't like a movie, and I feel like James didn't really hate the movie, just disliked the most of it - Mason on the other hand really seemed to hate it.
With that said, I can't relate to this episode at all and actually felt kind of sad, having been looking forward to your review of this movie.
Because I LOVED this movie, Best movie ever - best movie this year probably. And this coming from a full-blown super MCU fan.
Everything in this movie grabbed me and held me thight thorughout the whole runtime. The unreal level of acting, the realism of the universe and realism of violence.
Just everything seemed so grounded and real it just creept up on me - the eerieness of this unhinged guy.
The subway murders was gruesome - probably the most realistic gunshots I've seen in a movie.
The soundtrack - I've never been a guy to listen to a moviescore, but this I had to look up on Spotify.
You guys said something about this movie being predictable and that you foresaw the twists - I did not let me tell you, and I usually do with movies.
This one I couldn't puzzle together at all - all the twists, and the depth of those twists and what it means for a re-watch - Brilliant!
The Waynes scene was perfect - and makes me so excited for the future if this movie gets a sequel or is tied in with "The Batman" later on (I think it will).
I just sat through that scene with such a huge smile on my face - I can't see how you didn't.
Well, with all that being said - Guess entertainment is subjective.
Fuck you guys and fuck your stupid fucking opinions - Go fuck yourshelves!
Especially Mason - you dick.
Fair enough for those who linked it for the mystery element, there were a few twists that were unpredictable (though some were irritatingly predictable like his relationship with Zazie Beetz being in his head), but I still disliked it mainly because it was so derivative of other films like Taxi Driver, King of Comedy etc, it tries to present something new and edgy but gives the same disenfranchised white guy incites class warfare story we've seen a hundred times before (while making said man a passive protagonist who is almost completely disinterested in the cause until it's convenient for him), and it has a terrible portrayal of mental illness (never specifying which mental illness so presenting an amalgamation of several which turn out to be childhood brain damage from abuse anyway, trying to change the way people see the mentally ill but actually using the stereotypes of mentally ill people being prone to violent outbursts which is not at all true 99% of the time etc). Other than that it was ok (if a bit pretentious) but having seen movies like Logan and Watchmen years ago I don't know why people are acting like this movie is such a game changer for comic book movies. It just wasn't that groundbreaking nor was it a good portrayal of the character or mental health or the real divides in society (conveniently brushing over everything except the wealth gap) so all in all it just didn't have anything interesting or new to say in my opinion.
@@tedwards1025 No, you're wrong. Best movie ever. Because it was better than all of the movies it was based on, paid homage to, or stole from. I could relate to this movie so much, to the character of Arthur. I was just smiling at the end when he finaly rose to the top and became what he was always supposed to be. What an inspirational character. You missed the point entirely. Go watch it again, you must've seen it the wrong way the first time.
@@Kfoglarsson If you could truly relate to him you would know how badly they misrepresented mental illness in this movie and how weirdly paced his character progression was. It didn't do anything new and didn't do anything better than the films that came before it and it's another step back from educating the public about the realities of mental illness.
Thomas Wayne in this movie was actually quite Thomas Wayne-y. He was protective of his son and punched Arthur. A bit unneccessarily violent but this is Flashpoint Batman after all. Some versions of Thomas also show him as a guy with a bit of a shady background.
Also people need to stop saying that Joker could just have been a movie about a mentally ill guy. Where's the fun in that? You would be stripping the movie of a lot of amazing elements. Like the uncontrollable laugh.
While Joker didnt show himself to be as smart as his comic counterpart, he was a calculated and obsessive villain as evident from the scene where he's rehearsing for the talk show. It is such a Joker thing to want to make his plans (his "jokes") perfect down to all the little details.
I couldnt disagree any more with these review.
You could keep the uncontrollable laugh and not call the character Joker.
This movie could have been called "clown" and just changed some names. It didn't need to pretend to be an adaption of a character that doesn't actually feature in this movie.
And that scene of his practicing didn't show him to be calculated, it's not like he was planning a scheme or a crime or anything, he was just fantasizing about his suicide.
Who said this is Flashpoint Batman...? In Flashpoint it's BRUCE who gets killed and THEN Thomas Wayne becomes violently radicalised. Also, generally Thomas Wayne is depicted as doing a lot of civic and charity work, putting his money and resources towards helping the more unfortunate people of Gotham. It's one of the main reasons Bruce grows up to be Batman - His father instilled in him a strong moral compass inspiring him to be on the side of good and justice. His parents' murder made him dark and brooding, but his parents' EXAMPLE caused that dark broodiness to be a force for good. If not he could have just just murdered his parents killer as revenge and said case closed.
Whereas in this Thomas Wayne doesn't seem to give a crap about the poor, insulting them on TV and basically blaming them for their own poverty stricken position. Also, what was the point of punching Arthur Fleck in the bathroom other than to show Thomas Wayne being an asshole? Fleck is a small, emaciated, OBVIOUSLY mentally ill person. If you think he's a danger to your family why not have him arrested for a psychological evaluation. I mean, if you believe that Thomas Wayne conspired to have Fleck's mother committed and lobotomised then it would certainly be in character.
Also, YES Joker rehearses his talk show appearance, but he is SOOO lucky in this movie it's ridiculous. Why didn't the cops do anything more than phone him a few times when he was acting unbelievably suspicious and his mother had just been smothered? Why didn't the dwarf guy that he allowed to escape go to the police immediately? If he had there is NO WAY Joker could have got on the talk show without being arrested! There would have been a citywide manhunt for this maniac rather than just the two most incompetent cops in the world trying to chase him down a staircase. The small amount of planning they showed with regards to the talk show didn't remotely make up for him being a bumbling goof throughout the rest of the movie, dropping guns in hospitals stealing case files from mental asylums with the amazing escape plan being "LEG IT!!!!!" And if you interpret it as a lot of the movie was only in side his head, that still means he's an idiot because he couldn't imagine a smarter set of circumstances for all these events to come to pass.
Look, I really enjoyed the movie for what it was - A strong, dark character-study about a mentally ill man failed by society. But it was almost entirely unrelated to the actual source material it ported to be about.
I agree with you guys about Joker except for the fact that I don't think this was a good portrayal of mental illness. The example of social services being cut and not good enough is fine but everything else about how it was portrayed just played into the same tired stereotypes it seemed to be trying to avoid. They never specify the mental illness so they're playing into people's impression that all mental illnesses are pretty much the same when in reality very few mental illnesses cause hallucinations and almost none of them cause violent outbursts against others. This is a harmful stigma as mentally ill people in reality are far more likely to hurt themselves than others. It was disappointing for this movie which advertised being more understanding and open when it comes to mental illness (with the whole "The worst thing about having a mental illness is that people expect you to behave as though you don't" line) to then reinforce the kind of stereotypes that make people fear and ostracize the mentally ill and not even address one illness. Then it's revealed that he had brain damage from childhood abuse so you don't even know how much of it is mental illness vs brain damage. All in all it was a very sloppy portrayal of mental illness used as a means to an end for the character, not the shedding of new light on the subject that was promised. Beyond that, the movie was just another Taxi Driver/King of Comedy with very little of substance to say except to reiterate the same wealth gap/class warfare stuff we've seen before. V for Vendetta, Logan and even Watchmen were better comic book movies in terms of having something new to say about society and using the genre to comment on current events.
T Edwards I don’t think he was hallucinating zazie he was just imagining her. Like a fantasy. That’s not unusual at all especially with mental illnesses
@@FilmsAreBest No he was talking to her, so visual/auditory hallucinations. Fantasizing about someone means you know you're imagining it and that's not a symptom of mental illness. If you don't know you're imaging it then it's a hallucination which is a rare symptom of just a few mental illnesses.
@@FilmsAreBest Plus the main condition that involves hallucinating loved ones is schizophrenia, which means that once again schizophrenia is being extrapolated to mean an all-encompassing, vague mental illness and once again schizophrenia is being implicated in violent tendencies. Hallucinations in mental illness are rare across the board and are usually auditory anyway.
Curious, was your podcast uploads cancelled on Google play? There hasn't been a new episode in months
This movie really thinks it is saying something about society while at the same time trying to ask what is real. But you really need to have one or the other.
"please sir" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I did not see this coming.
I think Joker was an amazing film, and deals with mental health and such really well, BUT... I agree with you in that this isn't really a film about the joker. It doesn't follow his comic origin, and doesn't establish him as a comic book style villain.
Looking at this film as a thriller, I think it was exceptional. Looking at it as a comic book movie, I thought it was dissapointing.
I agree with you except don't think it even deals with mental health that well. Sure it acknowledges the lack of social services to care for those with mental illness but its portrayal of mental illness plays into every negative stereotype out there. It never specifies what mental illness it's trying to portray, but very few cause visual and auditory hallucinations so I guess that narrows it down. Then it tries to say people should treat mentally ill people better and get rid of the stigma surrounding it but then it shows mental illness as a factor in his violent outbursts when in reality mentally ill people are almost never violent against others and this is a very damaging stereotype that often gets them locked up or prevents them from getting the care they need. It just used mental illness as a plot device more than anything, and then revealed that it was brain damage from child abuse and not mental illness all along.
Could not agree more, as someone whos father died because of mental illness i was just grossed out by how mental illness was portrayed. I would sum up how i felt but you have already said it perfectly.
@@corvus2512 Thank you! Mental health is a sensitive issue for me too, mental illness killed my grandmother and has affected my mother and myself as well and it's infuriating to still see portrayals like this today even in a work that superficially appeared to be advocating for the mentally ill in its intent.
It doesn't deal with mental health well at all. He apparently is on 7 different meds yet when he goes off them and starts killing people his symptoms disappear?
@@CallousCarter Exactly! In the trailer they seemed like they were taking a better view of dealing with mental illness (the whole "The worst part about having Mental Illness is that people expect you to behave as though you don't) and a lot of reviews are praising it for looking at how mental illness is treated by society but it was really an undefined plot device in this film furthering harmful stereotypes. I had hoped they would do something more positive with it but when you're making a movie about a villain and he's the one you're trying to make a sympathetic mentally ill person it's not going to be helpful or any different from all of the previous "crazy villain" stories.
So Martin Scorsese posits that gangster murder flicks ARE human beings emotionally connecting? Interesting. Agree to disagree.
I'm not gonna lie, I did not like that review at all. Nevertheless, I'm trying not to be an angry internet person. You have the right express an opinion on the movie, and whilst I disagree MASSIVELY, I will respect that right.
As an individual who has despised everything dc has done since dark knight rises, this was a breath of fresh air, the joker to me posed some interesting questions about how society treats people who are mentally ill, the origin story was done very well, the joker has always been an unreliable story teller so it was nice to see a version of his origin that would be believable in the real world. I also disagree with the wayne murders being the same because in this version the joker was a catalyst for pushing gotham to the point of needing a batman.... I also think that having his laugh be as a result of a form of tourettes was very well done, you guys always complain about how predictable these dc movies are yet when they do something different and thought provoking instead of mindless cgi you guys put the film down for it. Just goes to show people dont know what they want from dc.
@GiRayne wow you seem to have quite an opinion about something you haven't watched a second of... Please tell me more.
But the movie ISN’T different or thought provoking. That’s the issue. The movie is super shallow and the plot is easily predictable to anyone who’s watched taxi driver.
@GiRayne you missed the part where i care what you think, your allowed your opinion despite having never seen the film and im allowed mine. Im not here to convince a random on the internet.
@@TheHolyMackarel i saw taxi driver the week before seeing joker and i would have to disagree, all i know is that dc has been churning out garbage since dark knight rises and thats MY opinion, im not going to try to convine you over the internet why it wasnt shallow or predictable because i couldnt care less what you or anyone else thinks
As for everyone knowing who is spiderman is, i feel the fact they added Talos and skrulls at the end seems like an easy fix
I mean petter rocks up then a skrull rocks up as spiderman or vice versa
It would never be that easy without magic or something. Even people knowing peter Parker is close to Spider-Man or can be confused with Spider-Man would cause his loved ones to be in danger just because people would think they’d be valuable.
@@wadewilson8924 what if Spiderman swings in and crawls up a wall and everything and just says Peter takes pictures of him often for a local newspaper, have SHIELD handle the paper stuff, boom Peter's photography gets J Jonah Jameson's attention and he gets a job for the daily bugle
Godspeed only thing is, j Jonah Jameson is considered the Alex Jones of this universe so it wouldn’t be some place Peter Parker would work.
Godspeed and you’re missing my point kind of. The point was that the fact that peter is even important to Spider-Man would put his family in danger. The whole reason he doesn’t want his identity out is because people would want to get people close to Spider-Man. It worked in the raimi films but idt it would work in the mcu. In the year 2000 I could buy that only a couple people
Know that peter takes pictures of Spider-Man. In 2019, that shit would spread.
Yeah true.
Wow I think you guys were way off on this one! And seriously?? “Worse movie ever”??? Well, still love your channel, but couldn’t have disagreed with you anymore with this film
"That's fine. You're wrong, but it's fine. It's COOL! But it's wrong, but you're fine. Jeez..."
There rating system is either best movie ever or worst movie ever. They dont do a middle ground, they dont actually think its worst ever.
But seriously. It IS the worst film ever.
I'm unsubscribing
What do you disagree with? They explained what they didn't like, can you explain what you did like?
So glad one of y'all hated Joker as much as I did...
This is my first time listening to this podcast.
The microphones sounds horrible. What's with the echo and vibration?
Is spiderman talk the new star wars news? Where it's james' equivalent to maseou's hate of star wars news (well now it's tollerance I guess)
Everyone I knew was giving the joker 10/10 (I flat-out hated it) and I was thinking it was terrible, a movie being "oh we live in a society" isn't groundbreaking or revolutionary, and honestly, this movie thinks its a lot smarter than it actually is. Anyways I appreciate you guys giving your honest opinion, keep up the great work. #grabdatgem
Thank you James
I have been trying to persuade my friends that Joker is not really something to compare to movies like The Departed or American Gangster. Definitely in the same field as Taxi Driver.
I would like to see this universe continue with The Batman, a compelling villain to take on Robat Battinbat! Worked for the MCU.
The director shot that shit down quick
Any version of Batman would wreck this version of Joker