I said to myself as soon as hendy came on, he's the super sub, he will make the difference in this type of game. Im a bears fan and everytime ive watched saints this season he has either won them the game or come on and just beasted it. So happy for Courtney as he's always been my favourite player being a 6 myself.
Agree with you Tom. Hendy has something special . I’m a Leicester tigers fan and no bias obviously but knew he’d turn that final around . Though muir done Hendy like a kipper on his try I’d still like George Hendy to be closer to the England team right now.
I enjoyed this, I find between the two of you you often make a lot of sense. What Goodie said about the HIA on a head knock like this, absolutely spot on
A great advert for club rugby 🏉 and in fairness Northampton deserved the win having been the most consistent team but Bath are on the up and will win it next season. 😊
On average, probably yeah there’s more flowing rugby than in test matches. But this last WC was the best tournament we’ve ever had. The NZ vs IRE and FRA vs SA games were incredible, with the upsets by Fiji, SA winning 3 knockouts by 1 point, Portugal beating Fiji, I think international has a higher ceiling. But on average, yeah club rugga has more entertaining games
It clearly ruined what would otherwise have been a more balanced match. It tied one hand behind Bath’s back when they were the better side on the day. There was every chance for the ref to give a yellow card, even the TMO referenced dipping. So, yes, it did ruin the final from what it could have been. No matter how much commentators’ want to focus on the overall Northampton narrative. As a neutral, it was hugely disappointing not to see a fair fight. Glad I didn’t fork out for Tickemaster tickets and can’t imagine anyone new to the sport thinking this was anything other than loaded/one-sided determined by a debatable refereeing decision.
As a neutral fan I just want to understand the final play where his knee touched the ground twice surely should have been tacklers release? Or was the support tackler allowed to rip the ball?
I had to re-watch it on UA-cam at 0.25 speed. It was so close knee going to the floor and thw rip for the ref to make that decision. You just have to accept and play to the refs call of a tackle.
Guys, seriously, come on!!! I didn't watch the game live, but I just reviewed the replay. Watch it in slow motion-there's no way that should be a red card. He picks a target on the body, drops his head, braces for impact, and the ball carrier drops into his shoulder. It's as clear as day, if that’s not a rugby collision, I don’t know what is….
People keep bigging up Du Toit... Look at the stats Bath lost 64% of their scrums, and people keep saying Underhill but no one wins anything by tackles.. Points on the board playing rugby, there was only one team playing rugby. Bravo to 14 men staying in the game but playing a really basic muscle/kicking game. Thank goodness a team that want to play an all court style won the day.. So bored of scrum penalty, kick for the corner, mauling shit.
Take a look at a freeze of 7:38. Attackers head is below chest height and both players are dipping. Attacker is probably unable to remain upright in that position. I think the definition of upright in the tackle needs serious consideration because to me the attacker caused the collision to be dangerous and the defender is targeting chest high. Please just a little common sense in rule writing and interpretation.
But if you run out back a few seconds before, Augustus was already low because that's how most players brace for contact and try and bust through tackles. Obano did hinge a little, but he made the mistake of driving upwards rather than horizontally, so he put himself at risk. Like Jim said, just chop the man, he's in his own half and it will still hurt.
@@RatzaChewyThis is what I hate about these arguments. How can you defend a position when the cause of the problem, the attacker being in an unreasonably low and dangerous position, is used as a reason to blame the defender who is tackling a guy where his chest is normally... As for just chop the man...I find that an even more disgusting and dangerous technique then trying to tackle a guy at chest height. Did you get taught to tackle thigh to chest or were you also taught how to chop tackle?
@@Grumpy_Hobbit I was taught to tackle cheek-to-cheek, or grab a leg/tap tackle when necessary. I was never taught to tackle around the chest. Probably for the best as I grew early. And maybe chopping isn't the best choice of words, because the LCD style of throwing yourself at someone's feet is pretty reckless. But the point remains that aiming for a low wrapping tackle is a much less risky option for the player you're tackling and much less likely to be penalised.
@@RatzaChewy Perhaps kids are not being taught how to tackle properly anymore but a tackle between the shoulder and thigh were always good when I played. At least in terms of front of tackles. Attackers have learnt they can get a lot of penalties by ducking into contact and until that is addressed I see the problem persisting. I was a short guy and great at defense because I could always get low but anyone saying low tackles are safe should come round and count the 200+ stitches in my head from 'safe' tackles. Perhaps it is because I grew up in another era but both players are responsible for safety in a tackle not just the defender and until, as I stated in my OP, an attacker's body position is seriously addressed the problem is going to continue.
@@Grumpy_Hobbitbut the attacker is not in a dangerous position, that’s how every player braces for impact in rugby in general, the defender flew in for a tackle that was completely unnecessary in that moment and the momentum he went in with meant he couldn’t control or adjust himself into a safe body position, tackles like that break necks. It was clearly explained why it was a red card by the referee, you can’t move the blame onto the attacker when a tackle like that is so dangerous. It really doesn’t take much more for a tackle like that to turn into something very very nasty. Players know the rules and I think everyone on the bath side knew that was a red before he’d even taken the card out of his pocket because if a saints player did that bath would expect exactly the same result.
Big fan off Fin and agreed he looked average , but Russell with all his experience looked similar. So the battle of the Tens never came to fruition, but Fin did get that drop kick to his teams advantage and Russel with more dominate forwards still couldn’t produce a George Ford type performance against Argentina with 14 men . Nor find a cross field kick for a try like Ben Spencer did. Still not having it that Finn Russell is the best ten in Britain.
I'm a Saints fan that was at the stadium, and as odd as it sounds, i was hoping it was only a yellow. Purely because I felt it would cheapen the victory if we went onto win...and knew we'd get a bunch of comments like yours (no offence intended). I personally did think it ruined the game, as Courtney said post-match, it heaped a bunch of pressure on the Saints and galvanised the Bath team. I think that was the worst performance (alongside Leinster) we've had this year and I cannot help but think this extra pressure was the reason.
@@markcundle1703and yet won this and almost beat leinster. Not too shabby for worst games. Think the quality of opposition and occasional both play a big roll
Saints beat Munster in Limerick when down to 14 men, the dynamics of the game would have been completely different so who knows what would have happened if it was15 v 15
underhill was a human missile. man of the match.
Roundhill - sensible but sift, Overhill - tough, direct guys, Underhill.....
he does look a bit like a mole
I said to myself as soon as hendy came on, he's the super sub, he will make the difference in this type of game. Im a bears fan and everytime ive watched saints this season he has either won them the game or come on and just beasted it. So happy for Courtney as he's always been my favourite player being a 6 myself.
Agree with you Tom. Hendy has something special . I’m a Leicester tigers fan and no bias obviously but knew he’d turn that final around . Though muir done Hendy like a kipper on his try I’d still like George Hendy to be closer to the England team right now.
Northampton beat Munster in muster with 14, so teams can win with reds
I enjoyed this, I find between the two of you you often make a lot of sense. What Goodie said about the HIA on a head knock like this, absolutely spot on
A great advert for club rugby 🏉 and in fairness Northampton deserved the win having been the most consistent team but Bath are on the up and will win it next season. 😊
I thought that Bath looked really dominant, especially throughout the second half. Felt bath were very close to coming away with the win.
Club rugby better than international, I said what I said. Doesn’t mean it means more, but actual drama and excitement in games, it’s got more
On average, probably yeah there’s more flowing rugby than in test matches. But this last WC was the best tournament we’ve ever had. The NZ vs IRE and FRA vs SA games were incredible, with the upsets by Fiji, SA winning 3 knockouts by 1 point, Portugal beating Fiji, I think international has a higher ceiling. But on average, yeah club rugga has more entertaining games
It clearly ruined what would otherwise have been a more balanced match. It tied one hand behind Bath’s back when they were the better side on the day. There was every chance for the ref to give a yellow card, even the TMO referenced dipping. So, yes, it did ruin the final from what it could have been. No matter how much commentators’ want to focus on the overall Northampton narrative. As a neutral, it was hugely disappointing not to see a fair fight. Glad I didn’t fork out for Tickemaster tickets and can’t imagine anyone new to the sport thinking this was anything other than loaded/one-sided determined by a debatable refereeing decision.
As a neutral fan I just want to understand the final play where his knee touched the ground twice surely should have been tacklers release? Or was the support tackler allowed to rip the ball?
From what I saw he was in the process of ripping it out as the knee made contact with the floor, not after and the ref ad not called tackle
I had to re-watch it on UA-cam at 0.25 speed. It was so close knee going to the floor and thw rip for the ref to make that decision. You just have to accept and play to the refs call of a tackle.
🍻
Guys, seriously, come on!!! I didn't watch the game live, but I just reviewed the replay. Watch it in slow motion-there's no way that should be a red card. He picks a target on the body, drops his head, braces for impact, and the ball carrier drops into his shoulder. It's as clear as day, if that’s not a rugby collision, I don’t know what is….
People keep bigging up Du Toit... Look at the stats Bath lost 64% of their scrums, and people keep saying Underhill but no one wins anything by tackles.. Points on the board playing rugby, there was only one team playing rugby. Bravo to 14 men staying in the game but playing a really basic muscle/kicking game. Thank goodness a team that want to play an all court style won the day.. So bored of scrum penalty, kick for the corner, mauling shit.
I didn’t think it was a red, Beno was dipping
Take a look at a freeze of 7:38. Attackers head is below chest height and both players are dipping. Attacker is probably unable to remain upright in that position.
I think the definition of upright in the tackle needs serious consideration because to me the attacker caused the collision to be dangerous and the defender is targeting chest high.
Please just a little common sense in rule writing and interpretation.
But if you run out back a few seconds before, Augustus was already low because that's how most players brace for contact and try and bust through tackles. Obano did hinge a little, but he made the mistake of driving upwards rather than horizontally, so he put himself at risk. Like Jim said, just chop the man, he's in his own half and it will still hurt.
@@RatzaChewyThis is what I hate about these arguments.
How can you defend a position when the cause of the problem, the attacker being in an unreasonably low and dangerous position, is used as a reason to blame the defender who is tackling a guy where his chest is normally...
As for just chop the man...I find that an even more disgusting and dangerous technique then trying to tackle a guy at chest height.
Did you get taught to tackle thigh to chest or were you also taught how to chop tackle?
@@Grumpy_Hobbit I was taught to tackle cheek-to-cheek, or grab a leg/tap tackle when necessary. I was never taught to tackle around the chest. Probably for the best as I grew early.
And maybe chopping isn't the best choice of words, because the LCD style of throwing yourself at someone's feet is pretty reckless. But the point remains that aiming for a low wrapping tackle is a much less risky option for the player you're tackling and much less likely to be penalised.
@@RatzaChewy Perhaps kids are not being taught how to tackle properly anymore but a tackle between the shoulder and thigh were always good when I played. At least in terms of front of tackles.
Attackers have learnt they can get a lot of penalties by ducking into contact and until that is addressed I see the problem persisting.
I was a short guy and great at defense because I could always get low but anyone saying low tackles are safe should come round and count the 200+ stitches in my head from 'safe' tackles.
Perhaps it is because I grew up in another era but both players are responsible for safety in a tackle not just the defender and until, as I stated in my OP, an attacker's body position is seriously addressed the problem is going to continue.
@@Grumpy_Hobbitbut the attacker is not in a dangerous position, that’s how every player braces for impact in rugby in general, the defender flew in for a tackle that was completely unnecessary in that moment and the momentum he went in with meant he couldn’t control or adjust himself into a safe body position, tackles like that break necks. It was clearly explained why it was a red card by the referee, you can’t move the blame onto the attacker when a tackle like that is so dangerous. It really doesn’t take much more for a tackle like that to turn into something very very nasty. Players know the rules and I think everyone on the bath side knew that was a red before he’d even taken the card out of his pocket because if a saints player did that bath would expect exactly the same result.
smith was average and nervous, saints looked better with furbank at 10
What are you on about lad 😂
Big fan off Fin and agreed he looked average , but Russell with all his experience looked similar. So the battle of the Tens never came to fruition, but Fin did get that drop kick to his teams advantage and Russel with more dominate forwards still couldn’t produce a George Ford type performance against Argentina with 14 men . Nor find a cross field kick for a try like Ben Spencer did. Still not having it that Finn Russell is the best ten in Britain.
They won cause of the red card 🤷♂️
I'm a Saints fan that was at the stadium, and as odd as it sounds, i was hoping it was only a yellow. Purely because I felt it would cheapen the victory if we went onto win...and knew we'd get a bunch of comments like yours (no offence intended). I personally did think it ruined the game, as Courtney said post-match, it heaped a bunch of pressure on the Saints and galvanised the Bath team. I think that was the worst performance (alongside Leinster) we've had this year and I cannot help but think this extra pressure was the reason.
@@markcundle1703and yet won this and almost beat leinster. Not too shabby for worst games. Think the quality of opposition and occasional both play a big roll
Saints beat Munster in Limerick when down to 14 men, the dynamics of the game would have been completely different so who knows what would have happened if it was15 v 15
Genuinely think Saints would have won by more without the red card. It changed the psychology of the game for both sides.