Rugby Law Changes - What's going on?! | The Rugby Pod
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- In light of the new Rugby Laws announced by World Rugby, Jim and Goodey sit down to discuss how they could affect the game. The lads touch on the uproar around the removal of the scrum option, rugby going in the right direction, how the coaches and refs adapt and the possibility of smaller benches, and the impact that could have.
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0:00 New Scrums
6:44 Uproar About The Laws
10:00 The Adaptations
13:36 Closed Trials
21:25 Less Substitutes - Спорт
I think we need MORE scrums. I love rugby. WE DON"T WANT RUGBY LEAGUE !!!! Targeting South Africa, what next ? limiting the number of rolling mauls? Scrums reduce the number of defenders, creates space.
I mean not that I want to manufacture more scrums honestly it’s fine as it is and as it’s always been really. Like for the people crying about time wasting then that one is simple ask refs to hurry it up. Even at school level I’ve always had ref that want to get it going so set quickly and get to work. You can cut a lot of fat from that. Scrums embody rugby because they won’t win you the game but they can be a major help to do that. If you can’t scrum you won’t win and how do you get good at it? You scrum.
Protecting weaker scrums doesn’t help, let them suffer and they will grow. Now you want to make the scrum safer Im all with you, looking at old scrums yeah I forgot man’s just engaged like a damn maul 😂 not sure how anyone thought that was healthy but damn impressive it is. I like scrums how they are cause if you want to dominate being big although it helps, it won’t get you there. If you want to dominate scrums you gotta learn the insides and outs of it and grow the feel for it. Hence why older front rows are so good, that rewards you in the end but it’s lot of work physically but also brain work. You look at the SA scrum today those ain’t some bread dead big meat slamming forward. Nah, they artists everything is time perfectly so at the slightest crack at the pressure they bounce on you like a rhino. Really hard to defend against that but possible, if rather than help out weather teams they just had a bunch of Rassies just one upping each other then rugby would be next level glorious
Ball in play time for 80 minutes in both codes varies. I love both. Union = 35 minutes. League = 65 minutes. If a scrum takes 1-2 minutes to complete that takes away from ball running and tackling time. Union scrums are amazing in smaller doses.
@@usarugbyleagueunionfannot a bad idea to stop the clock at scrum time till the ball is in the scrum
They’re gonna get rid of 7-1 split next 😡
@@mungoblizzard6114 Its been spoken of already, but its not really a big deal and to remove our bomb squad
I'm a Bok loyalist; what concerns me is where you draw the line. If Coaches and Players are finding new creative ways to play, can World Rigby just let them be? What's good for the goose is good for the gander! If it's a safety concern, I am all for it but leave the scrum alone. Love you Jim and Goodey!
There's no spinning that can convince people that the no scrum law was not influenced by SA scrums in any way.
The boks did not have the best scrum at the rwc. They were about 4th on win rate at 88% with the all blacks on second at 94%. So this rule affects other better scrummaging teams more.
@@MA-ik7ysnot the greatest comparison. Uruguay, Italy and Namibia, Argentina and France vs Scotland, Ireland, France, Tonga, England and New Zealand. No surprise on the percentage in that case surely
@@danielmcw Tonga and Romania? Oh and the all blacks won the scrumming % in the final Vs the boks.
@@danielmcw Argentina= England also so I think you will find same strength teams
Hate to burst your bubble, but there are better strumming nations than South Africa
As a South African, it feels like a slap in the face because we did the scrum off a mark once, and then they ban an age-old law against it
I also believe it will be fine without the scrum off a mark because of the dupont law. We only used that scrum because the French farwards did not have to chase the ball
Bro, it's a slap in the face to all teams. If someone came to me and said, "You won't beat them unless we change the rules," I would feel insulted.
Nah look at it this way, the more laws you give us the more we will play with them and back fire 😂 for example if you give us the free kick in your 22 might be worse if someone like Grant Williams taps. So now your choice is either try hold it and not give away the penalty or give the free kick and risk having your defence gutted 15m from the line. Could be interesting, Im curious as to how Rassie will exploit this 😂 I know he will somehow, he can’t help it
Free kicks inside your half will lead to more line out pressure and subsequent penalty, if not a try. I agree, Rassie will formulate a plan to defuse this new scrum law. There is always a knock on effect for everyone "problem solving solution" 😂
@@yandisakoko7621 why give them the ball lmao, tap and maul
Nah, its a massive compliment. Just shows how moedeloos they are in trying to stop us. (these poelpe cant stand an African country DOMINATING them). But it will not have the effect they are hoping for. Again anthother historical rugby fact is now set in stone. No other team will ever be able to show their Balls of steel by daring another team to scrum behind their own 22. Totally agree that the new improved kick/offside law makes it a somewhat moot point. Rassie will find a way...
While I understand what Goodey is saying on the second free kick offence being a penalty, it still allows the weaker scrummaging team a 'get out of jail free' card multiple times to avoid a dominant scrummaging team. Can you imagine a team getting a scrum 5 meters out and the weaker team does a brake foot to avoid the scrum? Or a weaker team then decides at the next scrum 5 meters out to then push early and then avoids another scrum? There is at least 5 different strategies you can utilize once each to get a free kick instead.
As I understand it, the free kicks stack, so if it happens again at the next scrum its an instant penalty
@justgold4113 is that confirmed?? I really hope that is the case because that is not what has been happening at the current application of the free kick offences. If it is in fact as you say, then I would be less miffed because it would give you only one opportunity.
@@desttu9531 TBH mate, I'm not 100% sure but that does seem to be what Goodie is saying. Have a look from around 7:40 as that is what I understand is being said. You're correct it does only give a 1 get out jail free card and that also makes me less agitated. What I'm not sure of is whether it goes for the entire game or if there is a time limitation. Like how long do you get before it reverts to a free kick again?
Why should a weaker scrum get penalised? What other part of Rugby sees a player get penalised for not being as strong/quick/technical as the opponent?
Here’s the thing tho, you’ll get one or two get out of jail free cards but remember you don’t get it back. So if they tap which they are going to, at 5m you very much more likely eat a try or give away a penalty for offsides or if you try keep the ball. A team like SA I know exactly what they will do. Take your time and set up, give it to a mountain and form maul. If you train it right, they can see it coming all they want they won’t stop it. So idk, I’m not a fan of this new law but it does have the potential to speed things up. If the coaches are boring then meh but Rassie is here to entertain us don’t worry 😂 this man always scheming
How convenient that these law changes come into effect one week before Ireland arrive in SA for a two-test series, the Irish must thrilled and thankful.
You are acting like Ireland are weak scrummagers - you could say that about any team against SA. Now you have to play rugby ..
You said holding the ref accountable? When has that happened.
@Goodey you can early engage on the first one, move the break foot back on the second, let the flank hook the ball on the third, let the prop block the ball on the fourth and the just take more than 30 seconds on the fifth so you have already skipped 5 scrums. Most games don't have 5 scrums against you so you have definitely made scrumming almost completely useless.
That moment when Willemse called the scrum from the mark was amazing,. Possibly the defining still of that whole world cup for a lot of people. And WR want less of those amazing moments of creativity and surprise. I'm more sad than angry.
Spot on 👊
Probably the best comment on here.
I played 15 years and been watching about 20 and had never ever seen that before. Baller moment and I’m English 🤷🏽
This really feels like world rugby is over the cup being passed between SA and NZL
Love this comment!!!!
The competition needs to up their game then.
Umm Have you not heard Sir John Kirwans comments against South Africa after the world Cup final, his smiling through his Ass hole now.
That no scrums from a mark, seems really targeted hey
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not really. Scrumming in your 22 could very easily backfire including against the Boks.
@@DavidSmith-yi8ou Exactly there’s risk and jeopardy and that’s what we love to see our teams do more of which is to back themselves and take risks.
But it’s cool, the Boks will just adapt
@@DavidSmith-yi8ouThen it's a gamble teams would be willing to take so let them
@@nolo_the2nd fine by me.
It does BECAUSE it doesn't make sense
....except for the time factor which is BS ....just the fact that the team take a risk by scruming in their own 25 makes it so exciting because it can backfire .... that they couldn't even wait to see if anybody else will use the tactic is telling ...seems like a few people have some sensitivity about that Willemse moment . What a gamble that was against a FRENCH scrum common that took massive guts and believe .
You need to remember that the Springboks don't just want to scrum for penalties, they scrum to break down the legs of the opponents, they whole idea about the bomb squad is to come on against fatigued packs.
They want to break you physically and psychologically 😂 which is bloody effective cause every time there’s a scrum you know you going to get bullied 😂 SA just refined the strategy of running you down or giving you the ball for territory and bullying you into giving it back 😂 no law can protect you from that and can still be rugby
The bomb squad idea is completely wrong, if a front row gains the upper hand and benefits that’s fine but to bring on fresh legs without injury is wrong
@@v4panigale26 what 😂 you against teams having subs 😂 what a psychotic idea
@@v4panigale26😂 you've just described substitution.
Cool so all players must get injured before being subbed off? How long will your squad last in a season? 😂😂 Laughable
What about the argument: "stop changing the laws so frequently!"?
In the 1987 WC the average game had 32 scrums and 45 lineouts. In 2023 WC the average game had 15 scrums and 27 lineouts. The 1987 WC final had 28:11 minutes of ball in play time and the 2023 final had 34:18 minutes ball in play time. So we got six minutes more ball in play time with 17 less scrums per game. Now we might lose one or two scrums, how will that make any difference to the ball in play time?
The play time argument is pretty bs… refs can just hurry it up at setting up like they do in most other levels except pro. That will cut a lot of fat, once ref gets there it’s set and go, not having tea while everyone is here. Ref can be reasonable but take too long and free kick, players will pick up the pace real quick. Scrum resets either players do a better job or ref get stricter and give more warnings and penalties but that one is tricky cause scrums are just hard to ref. Both team may make an offence so who get what you know. It’s like going for the ball while your tackler didn’t roll so now even if you level you get penalised. When doing this ref has no choice really but to warn you off or penalise you. Scrums it’s the same situation but much more complicated. So lot of times refs will reset or if the ball is available then take it out and play. They’ll usually penalise if it’s an obvious unfair contest. For example, sinkler dropping his knee before the ball is even in that’s a given. Cause one ref saw it clear as day so when the scrum goes wrong even if it ain’t your teams fault it starts from that. It’s little things but dropping that knee gives you an advantage, so you will get penalised regardless of what comes next since it originated from you. Now ref can blow right away or see how the scrum pans out and then give it or let it slide. Makes rugby more dynamic else every scrum would likely end in a penalty.
@@dreammaker9642 Personally I think they could have left the law. Like you said if the scrum collapse but the ball is available let them play it. Now the teams keep the ball at the back hoping they will get a penalty. I think common sense could have cone a long way instead of changing laws that in the end will make little to no difference to what they claim their objective is.
@@wlk2408 see a lot of things come from what ref you got. Scrumming is an art and to get it right you need a few things to go right. You can’t just full send it you’ll give away a free kick or worse. Gotta build pressure till one player in the other side drops a bit and then you unload. You have to learn to do that as a pack and get it right which teams like SA do a wonderful job at and make it their bred and butter.
Teams will try and build the pressure and get the penalty and it depends on the ref a lot. If it’s available and he says play it then you know he won’t give it to you so play it but if he says nothing and lets it go then you wait for that break.
The ref you get will affect that a lot and it’s kinda just how rugby is. We’d love some consistency but not all refs agree and honestly they aren’t doing that bad of a job at it across the board. If you have a weak scrum a law like this won’t save you, actually makes things worse cause I don’t want to give a free tap to a 9 like dupon in my 22 😂 that’s asking for problems. It may save an evenly matched team a couple times but hopefully that could spice up the game but over all it does seem to target the mark. Which is sad cause it’s as high risk high reward as you get. You risk getting penalized in your 22 and that ain’t fun so it’s all or nothing. Honestly all or nothing moves is what makes games exciting. That’s why that quarterfinal stands out cause you saw 8 dudes who had to get to work and get it right more than once.
@@dreammaker9642 Mate you are talking about scrums like if I know what they do in scrums, I played fullback. 🤣
All I know is scrums is part of the game. It allows guys that look completely different to me to play the game and become good friends. If these muppets keep buggering around with the laws we might loose that. We might end up with fifteen guys that all look the same on the field. As long as the laws allow all tipes to play I am can accept it. People fall in love with the game by playing it. If we lose that it will be very sad. League will never be big because they have such little diveristy of body tipes playing the game.
@@wlk2408 well then I advise you learn cause no matter where you play if you don’t understand the set piece I wouldn’t say it necessarily makes you a poor player but definitely does not make you the best player you can be. I played mostly in the back line but ended up playing everywhere short of front row. Honestly, to understand how scrum and line outs work even you aren’t taking part, knowing what’s happening and what you looking at tells you want the opposition is trying to do. Now I don’t know your intentions but my advice if you want to go from a good enough full back to a great full back then those are the little things you should do. Having played fly half most of my time, I now from the line out or scrum can know what the other 10 is planning to do. Cause when I played flanker this what you’d do to be a nuisance and block the 10 in any way. Just figured I’d tell you but point is to have fun, learning how things work to exploite them is fun to me, might not be fun to you
Regarding the point of too many replacements these days, it's been 23 players for about 10 years. NZ won the RWC in 2015 because their subs were as good as other tier 1 countries' first XV, and nobody complained. How come we're only hearing that it needs to be reduced since the 2019 RWC?
Interesting 🤔🤔🤔
It's because of the lawsuit against WR go read about it players need to be protected . Deal with it
According to a certain rugby youtube channel, there are 9 ways in the law book to concede a short arm at a scrum. What this new law amounts to is that even if a ref stands firm and penalizes repeat infringements, a team with a weak scrum has 9 opportunities per game to cheat a stronger scrum out of their opportunity to win a penalty in a fair contest. Insane
Exactly. Well put 👍
Can you please say the UA-cam channel?
I think that sums it up. 'Win a penalty'. A penalty should be for foul play, not because one team is better, shouldn't it?
Shall we penalise a team because they have a slower winger or a poorer kicker or worse lineout or less creative fly half etc etc.
I thought the scrum was a method or restarting the game after a minor infringement.
I miss the days when you could 'win a penalty' by dummying from the base or the ruck or maul.
@melbeeswax6087 well ill discipline results in fouls and bad dicipline generally results in one team being better than the other,in soccer(I know this has nothing to do with rugby),great players draw fouls like a magnet.
@@desmondgovender3142 Agreed. Milking penalties and cheating the ref is a big part of football.
Being dominated in a scrum isn't I'll discipline, one team is stronger and better than the other and is getting pushed out of shape.
The purpose of a scrum was to restart the game, to get the ball back in to play.
Was the Caterpillar ruck addressed? If not it should have. Thats a big time waster.
I think refs have been encouraged to say use it faster to stop them developing.
Good point...it will be far less of those boring box kicks. And that frustrates me the most
6 free kick offences can come from scrums which means there are 6 occasions for one-off free kicks before the second time gets a penalty. Savy teams can keep several in the back pocket for the most important moments knowing they won't get pinged. Take England against SA, the scrum that led to the penalty which won the game. England has been losing scrums but not giving away free kicks all game, now they use their trump card, early engagement, free kick, get the ball back, and play on. How the GIANT holes in this law haven't already been patched up by WR is incredible.
The Damian Willemse mark is not the problem. That hardly ever happens. There are many things that can lead to a freekick at scrums, not just early on the ingage. Even if you can do it only once, you can use that one opportunity to change the outcome of a game.
Scenario, World Cuo final, last minute of the game, team A has a dominante scrum and gets a scrum advantage in a very kickable position. Now they won't be able to use their scrum to potentially get a penalty and a shot at goal. This law will still come and bite a team. If it happens in a World Cup final the shite is going to fly.
Spot on!
It is just strange that Du Pont's Law has been exploited for a while already, the Croc Roll has been used a lot and the one time a scrum gets called as seen in the WC final, it is suddenly ruled out by World Rugby. Goodey's logic goes both ways, if teams were using it extensively and it made the game look stupid, like Du Pont's law obviously does, then it needs to go, but it was used once and suddenly World Rugby felt that it needed to be addressed.
Rassie is definitely the GOAT 🐐
No problem, SA will have several solutions for the freekick scrum scenario, knock-on, forward pass.....etc.
so true
I have thought about this like you for some time " forward pass to get a scrum " BUT the ball is put in by the other team , which could get it out quick 80% of the time OR we get a penalty against us because of Karma ....ect ect Plus even with the Boks good scrum if everybody is HONEST the Boks never really dominate any top 5 team totally in the scrum department looking at 80 minutes . We win important scrums THATS the difference . We don't dominate every scrum . Percentage wise we are probably totally dominating 10 % of the scrums . Thing is we tend to not loose important scrums .
Stay mad❤ crying is free after all.
Rassie will be the 1st coach to introduce a 1000kg pack, with a 500kg front row and then on the 2nd offence of free kick milking, the resulting penalty will cause the opposition team to throw in the towel, have a shower and call their psychologists.
Also, deliberately knocking on or throwing it forward is a penalty offence. So if the ref feels you're doing it deliberately, you won't get the scrum.
The problem that repeated infringements (turning into a penalty) doesn’t solve is if the infringement is the first at the 80th min. Eg - England early bind at 77 mins against SA, no scrum , no penalty
Everyone thinks that fewer scrums will somehow make the Springboks less effective. I have no doubt that Dr Rassie will find a way to make it work for the Boks 😂
I totally agree with u. What all teams and World Rugby forget is that Rassie is a forward thinker. He is so smart that he is ok with the documentary of Chasing the Sun. The whole world watched the 2019 episodes to try and stop us in 2023. He played them all and they all fell for it.
Coming up with new laws is ok but that will not stop Rassie and his coaching staff to study and understand the laws and perfect them to be better than the rest of the world. They have 4 years to make trial and error and get it right.
If they could they would probably change the law on defence as we are the best in defence. Coaches around the world need to improve their coaching, tactics and be a students of the game instead of moaning and getting laws changed!
The scrum is the iconic set piece of Rugby union, but it seems that World Rugby wants to turn the game into Rugby league.
I think they want to increase ball in play time.
Early engage - free kick. Breakdoot - free kick, early shove - free kick = 3 get out of jail cards to deal with three scrums on your own tryline.
If I understand Goodie, the 2nd attempt at milking a freekick will turn into a penalty. The the attacking team can do what they want. I don't like this law change at all but at least it does seem that its not a complete wrecking of the scrumming.
@@justgold4113 not quite, the second attempt at milking a free kick for the same infringement. Hence at least three get out of jail free cards to my knowledge, although I think there are even more. Not lining up correctly for the hit also causes a free kick come to think of it. The biggest problem is the team that doesn't want the scrum can break the rules of the game four times to sheer away from it, and at the end of the day, 4 out of a potential 11 or 12 scrums in a game is a hell of a lot, and you can basically decide when to use it. Like when defending your 5 Meter line, in which case you can just cheat and the forwards can then spread out and defend taking away al the space created by the scrum for the backs. Just think of all those lovely moves of the back of the scrum against your opponents line which basically falls away,because your opponents can just creatively break the rules in 4 different ways to stop the scrum and close the space.
@@driesdiamond5016 Yep, I agree. I wasn't 100% sure if it applied to the same free kick offence or not. What I saw from Goodie was that a free kick offence from after the 1st one would become a penalty. It wasnt entirely clear if it was for the same offence or not. If what you are saying is correct, then that sucks big banana.
The most iconic part of Rugby Union is the scrum and that the game is for all sizes of players- remove that and you destroy what makes rugby Union special.
It is anti-Springbok but it's also really anti-innovation. Can we split rugby into the version with sane rules and entertainment value, then IRB can have their boring, overcomplicated version?
Constant reset scrums are frustrating but I find a good scrum very entertaining. The theatre of 8 massive humans tightly bound together and fighting for an oval ball is fantastic. Also the backline has the most space off a scrum to work with and do some magic.
Guys it's not just the scrums, OK. But if you look at everything that can be given a free kick against, that leaves the door open for lots of trickery. Marks from restarts? So nobody is going to kickoff into the 22m now. Whenever the ball is kicked out, just quick throw the ball; no more line outs too, which would actually have helped South Africa in the final since Deon lost a couple of line outs, I mean who needs scrums and line outs and territory mind games and physical mind games. Rugby is terrifyingly technical and this is taking away from the joy of it. If someone can explain to me how the 15s game is better off with almost no scrums or line outs feel free and with clean outs also becoming harder to do legitimately (I don't have an answer here and agree the crocodile roll must go) the attacking team can just keep ball in hand, if they actually are a good attacking team. But at least, from what I remember, League has you go through 5 plays max with a kick away at the end same with NFL. Which makes sense in those sports, since turn overs are hard and limits what a team can do and if they waste their chance then ball gets turned over. Now look at Ireland vs New Zealand QF 2023 there were a couple of times we had near 30 phase possession plays. Great, I think that's masterclass but how would a team that can't jackal, which is now harder because you need to give day light but hands have to be on the ball exactly, contest at breakdowns. So when does the defending team get a turn over opportunity? I think some of the rules are making a mockery of rugby and it's for everyone, not just South Africans. We may be 3rd world but we're not idiots. So take Union if you want, South Africans will be fine; but Union is not League, NFL or Football and if it wants to be just keep in mind that no one ever goes for a cheap knock off and you just end up losing die hard fans.
Just imagine the amount ofpeople you eliminated from rugby with no scrum or much less scrums. This game is for all shapes and sizes. The boy next door can hang up his boots....he can only be a front row.
World rugby did the same thing to Ireland a few years ago they were very good at figuring out ways around the law for example the choke tackle Ireland used to do that all the time to gain possession so world rugby tried to take that away from Ireland where in the case for choke tackle you could intentionally collapse the maul and gain possession.
Beware thinking that the Boks are only scrummagers!
That said, I think the Du Pont law change might have a bigger impact on France than the scrum law change will on SA. All those big, power forwards from France are suddenly going to have to do a lot more running (or France is going to have to do a lot less kicking).
5m scrum and cause a short arm deliberately (aftersaving it all game). Great stuff bro..
Why were caterpillar rucks not addressed
Is it because it was brought in by the NH teams????
I think referees already get criticized too much for the way scrums are refereed. Adding more complications and instances where the referee has to make a judgment call or be strong about it is going to make scrums even more contentious. I think there are going to be more calls that fans will be dissatisfied with, even if they're the right calls. Early engagements aren't so common that they might ruin a game, but going from a simple reset to a referee needing to decide if it was intentional and possibly carding someone or just being so severe that it becomes a penalty doesn't seem right. I don't think a single team will ever take a scrum off of a penalty unless they're deep in their opponent's 22, even with a dominant scrum there's too much room for error and it's too risky to be worth it. In an attempt to make the game have fewer scrums, World Rugby might just make scrums more complicated and even more disliked by fans. Instead of trying to have less of them maybe they should put their efforts into making them more enjoyable, turning them into a platform where the teams can compete, let the backs run around while the forwards are locked in, make a scrum something a fan wants to watch. If you're just trying to get rid of them instead of embracing and fixing them, then maybe the South Africans are right, and these rules aren't about solving an issue but instead about giving the springboks less opportunity to assert their dominance.
It can be frustrating to see the scrum setup take so long, only for the actual scrum to be rushed. I agree, there should be more emphasis on the power against power contest. It would be great to see the setup process streamlined and the scrum itself given more time. And you're right, it's important for referees to enforce laws like throwing in straight to ensure fair play.
The caterpillar ruck should be completely banned - that is a way worse time waster
There are 9 ways of getting a free kick from scrum time, and about 6 of them are ways for the opposing team to give away a free kick.
RIP to rugby union. Happy birthday to rugby league. Hope people are happy
A rule made for gaming... That said the Springboks will just double down on their scrumming power. Other teams should rather improve their scrumming like the Boks have done since 2017 when they were bullied by Argentina.
It will be interesting how strictly the referees will police the 10m rule if the free kick is taken really quickly.
hope all these changes can allow especially the north /other nations to win World Cups😀
🤭
I think I have some pretty bad news buddy, it's still not going to happen. There's a reason the Cup only gets passed around between South Africa and New Zealand, and until the rest of you figure out why that is, you can change all the rules you want to the point that Rugby Union becomes Rugby League 2.0 (Which seems to be what the Northern Hemisphere and the World Rugby Board is pushing for for some reason), but you still won't win a World Cup, because you don't understand why NZ and SA keep winning the cups, and thus won't win one until you do
i think they missed a very important scenario here.
How often do we see a team scrum for the penalty in the last couple of minutes during a tight game ?
If a team gives up the free kick to avoid the penalty in minute 43. Not such a big deal. But this will eventually happen in a big game with time up on the clock. And dont think this wont happen to your team Goodey !
SA 22 - Eng 21, 40 secs on the clock. SA knocks on in their half. Scrum Eng. with SA vs Eng scrums 50/50 all game long. Eng has a fresh front row that won a penalty of the last scrum. SA front row looking tired. Rassie flashes the the red light from the box. SA pre-engage free kick Eng. (Ref cant straight arm SA, because no side has really been scrum dominant all game) Time up. Eng has to tap 30m from the try line.
This law will be taken advantage of sooner than we think. Probably even this season. So, don't come crying when it happens to your team.
Funny they are allowing the mark off a kickoff. That is a very old law which was scrapped in the 1990s I think. Naas Botha used to wait for the kickoff. Mark. Boom it back at loftus to the opposite 22. (Would that be a 50-22 today?) Interesting...
The frequent law-changes over the past 20 years discourages innovation within the current laws (meaning the laws of the day). If World Rugby left the rules alone it would naturally lead to periods where defence is dominant and then the attacking play would catch up and be dominant for a few years before swinging back. Soccer/football is an excellent example of this where the scores are all low-scoring in a season before becoming high-scoring a few years later, then changing back as tactics change.
Furthermore all the innovations of the Springboks and South African teams seem to be met with accusations that we are bad for the game, which is simply ignorant of the critics to say. Not every team or culture has the same strengths and weaknesses, so unless you want every team to play the same style and make rugby boring there should be space for different game-plans and tactics.
Lastly, I’m 5ft3 and have played both hooker and scrumhalf. One of the reasons I love rugby is that there is space for someone of all shapes and sizes, and the front row is one of the places where you don’t have to be a Goliath-lookalike like Eben Etzebeth to play, you can win a spot in the team by being sturdy, powerful, and having good technique despite not being a rugby league-type of athlete.
So yeah, all these rule changes has made me switch to watching the NFL instead. These are not “fan-focused” as Andy says, since casual fans don’t follow all the rule changes and they end up not understanding why decisions are made. Just ask my wife. As obsessed as I was with rugby in my youth, I basically only watch the Springboks now.
So not simplifying anything. Not speeding anything up. Not making it easier for referees. More intentional early engage and foot ups. Hilarious 🤣🤣
Yeah literally no gain except giving Rassie the finger - a tad too late though :p
I mean, as a Saffa, I know they did it to mess with South Africa. But I doubt it makes a big difference. How many do you see anyway.
Think about it, upcoming Ireland series. 5min left, scrum could be easy 3 points, or set piece for line-out... They early engage and it's a free kick. The advantage is gone. You can probably tap and go but turnover chance will be there
On replacements, I like the idea of reducing numbers on the bench... but that is detrimental (posh word?) to player safety. What they should do is cap the number of matches players can play in without having 2 weeks rest.
For example, say players need 2 weeks off after having played 6 matches in a season. That forces squad rotation, gives emerging players a a run and is great for player welfare.
But (and here's a big one) it can only apply to club / provincial matches. Otherwise you'll have club / provincial teams use up players' allotted matches and force national teams to rest them.
What happens if a non dominant scrum doesn’t use the brake foot, just to concede a free kick. Then the next scrum they engage early and the one after that they push early. Would the latter two be penalized or will they be free kicks. Different infringements, and I’m wondering whether they’ll only be penalized for the same infringements ,
Here is the best solution. Make all infringements at a scrum penalties, no more freekicks. When a team is awarded a penalty for a scrum infringement they can't take call a scrum. That way teams will have to scrum and can't get away with any tricks.
Does the second offence pertain to the same infringement or any infringement at the scrum? Because we could do the merry-go round of free-kick infringements before we see a penalty. Loopholes galore with this one if that's the case.
I have also been wondering about that - would be good if Big Jim or any other expert on this podcast could explain!
Don't think it will hurt the Boks, but the animosity against scrums doesn't make sense. It is what makes rugby rugby as opposed to rugby league
Fewer. It's "fewer scrums".
I was about to post the same.
It could be 'less scrummaging' but it is definitely 'fewer scrums'!
But won't it be confusing for kids trying to get into the game and learn the rules ?
Certain offences are sometimes free kicks, sometimes penalties.
It also just seems like it's skewering the game away from all shapes and sizes have their uses. Even if it's a slight change it's moving away from what makes rugby great isn't it?
These rules seem like they're decided based on the top level but don't spare a thought for all the fat boys at grass roots level. People that choose to get into rugby as a kid because they haven't got the right body for other sports might think twice about rugby now (I was one of those boys).
WR is changing our beautiful game into league. Scrums and the drama it creates around it i big games is what makes our game beautiful. 2 countries head to head in a battle of attrition. Just beautiful
Scrums are such an integral part of our wonderful sport... Rugby Union will die at the hands of World Rugby. This is going to have such a negative impact on the balance of the sport. I'm not even sure I want to watch anymore, the game is being ruined by World Rugby.
I totally can relate to this. I played rugby for over 20 years and my final season at 36 years old I felt better in almost all attributes except for top speed. Unfortunately all that time beating up my shoulders added up and I had surgery this year. I'm a bit nervous to see how I can bounce back from that time off recovering. I've also shifted a lot of focus to endurance running so doubt I'll be able to get back to some of those lower body power outputs. But all that said, keep grinding kids, you can do more than your dad did at your age!
As a prop who played in the pre-professional days, I deplore the way the scrum has deteriorated and is used as a means of conning the refs into awarding penalties. I say "conning" because the refs don't really have a clue what is going on in the scrums. When i was playing, the ball could be won against the head. Scrums took less than a minute. And to give a penalty simply because a scrum is pushed backwards is ludicrous! I've almost got to the stage where I'd prefer to see League scrums.
So if it almost never happens and the change will not have an impact, then why make the change?
Agree, why the hell change it yet. Goode is missing the mark big time with his assessement
Ok so I early engage once, I lift my brake foot once, I put wrong numbers once in the lineout, I waste time once that’s already 5 saves
As a casual rugby fan a lot could be solved by stopping the clock whenever a scrum is called and it restarts when the ball comes out. Too many games there is so much time taken out of the game because of reset after reset.
Not attacking the sport, and no doubt I'll take some stick for suggesting it. But it's an issue that needs resolved.
Waiting until rassie tells damien to catch the high kick cleanly and then just drop the ball forward to get a scrum anyway
What a stupid ploy. The opposing team would then have the benefit of putting the ball into the scrum.
Not if you have the bom squad scrumming against you 😂
@@user-dx9yp5ox3iI don’t think the Boks care lmao. They’ll back themselves anyway
Hi Guys, 20 min Red Card, can be structured better...(The offender is not permitted back on the field, but can be replaced with a bench option after 20min)....Simple and easy to manage.
Why not just ban these teams dominating the last 30 years on WC stage.
Because the 6 nations already exists...
The mark was meant to reward the defence and release pressure by hopefully clearing up towards halfway but South Africa realised the other option of a scrum could result in a penalty from which you get the lineout throw. I think the option to scrum should never have been there. There are too many rules for any referee not to make a mistake. The crocodile roll law I agree with but I would like your opinion on the first time I've seen it used in the U20 rugby championship game between New Zealand and Australia when the NZ 10 was given a yellow card through TMO intervention.
I still believe there should be a situation if a player do deliberate dirty play where a player can be red carded and maybe black carded to stamp out that type of play. Which mean no 20 min sub.
What problem is this new free kick law solving? I think adding laws on top of laws makes the game less appealing.
If I'm not mistaken, are there less scrum penalties as well? Help me here please
No, straight arm penalty still allows opting for a scrum. This is only for short arm (free kick) penalties
Is that how the free kick rules works? That they stack into penalties? So, for example, you might get away with 1 pre engage at scrum time but if you then give away any free kick its an instant penalty?
There should be difference for a free kick from a kick, vs a free kick from an infringement. I would only apply the new law where free kick was given from catching a kick, i.e. in your 22. Infringement free kicks from line outs or engaging early in scrums, should still be allowed to have a scrum.
Been watching the sport for over 50 years and seen loads of rule changes I never liked. The elimination of rucking was one, lineout lifting was another, and moving to tactical subs rather than injury reserves was another.
But change happens and if you’re any good you’ll adapt accordingly. Such is life.
Looking forward to seeing the internationals this year but doubt the sky will fall.
Just the opposite.
I find that the scrum adds a tremendous amount of charm to the game.
They are fascinating and fun to watch.
They are idiots to get rid of scrums.
And, if England or Australia were Masters of the Scrum, this rule never would have been implemented.
Weve seen red cards that should never have been given ruin the contest in games, the 20 minute red card fixes that. If a player commits a particularly grevious offence they will be banned for multiple games. The system has been working really well in SRP
Question: Does a scrum penalty result from repeated scrum free-kicks or repeated scrum free-kicks of the same type???
Instead of this, they should allow the option of a free kick when the opposition knocks on or if the ref stops the game.
Teams shouldn’t be allowed just give up the scrum in favour of mobility, but at the same time it’s not fair that if a team knocks on, but they have a much stronger scrum, they’ll likely win a penalty and be better off for knocking on.
This is a bigger deal at the amateur level where you regularly get a massive mismatch in the pack
Andy’s take is really good, you’ll get more penalties if teams try give free kicks away at scrums.. the issue that this will cause is when games are tight, in an attack able position, teams can give away a free kick and avoid risk getting a penalty which could lead to a match winning penalty and teams will do that. The only silver lining is that Dr. Rassie will without a shadow of a doubt find a way to exploit this law for SA benefit
The srum rule is wrong
I think that rugby should do away with substitutions, except for injuries, any player substituted, would then automatically miss the next game, which would help ensure that they were fit, and would act as a deterrent against fake injuries
"Less scrums"? The pendantic in me has to note that it should be "fewer scrums".
Fact check: the mark call happened in the quarter (France) and semi final (England).
if it's a 5m scrum and the team doesn't want to concede a penalty; or they want to have more defenders they can just take the free kick and that can have a big impact on match.
If SA couldn't call a mark they might have not won both games. How can that not be a big impact? How can Goodey not see that?
When are cricket tests going to be changed to 3 days of 100 overs, and no fast bowlers or bouncers... because that's what people want isn't it? World Rugby are destroying our sport.
Well put. Great analogy
Forget calling a scrum off a mark. But how can they remove that option from a general free kick like an early engagement..
The scrum off a mark is a red herring - the scrum you cant take for a not straight throw 5m from the line is a real problem. Now you can only tap against a spread out defence as opposed to sucking in all the forwards. Bad law. So unnecessary.
I hear Goode. But what if that one free kick abuse is THE crucial moment in a World Cup final?
Poorly thought out law change. Theoretically, you can simply transgress on different scrum infringements in consecutive scrums with no real consequence. Scrum 1 - early engagement, Scrum 2 - brake foot, etc...
Lest see the stats on scrum to free kick in the last season & then see now how many free kicks from scrums post the new law. . Then we will see if teams are giving free kicks to avoid scrumming.
For me the best games are the ones with the fewest scrums which also means there will be less BS penalties that the refs have just guessed the decision and hopefully it’ll stop these “bomb squads” and encourage teams to be more attack minded, I also think we need to reduce the number of subs allowed but that’s a conversation for another day
It won't make much of a difrenece,the game will still be slowed down to a halt..these new laws save about 1 to 2min of gametime and with these new changes there massive loopholes in the rules which certain teams will definitly be exploiting.
Let's stop pretending like the Springboks are the only team in the world that scrummages. We see it all the time in professional Rugby, if a team has a weak scrum, the opposition will always take that option and use that advantage.
There won't be less scrums. There will just be more knock on's on favorable positions in the field.
Don't worry about the scrum law affecting South Africa. Rassie will find a way. Bokbefok!
So long as scrum halves can feed the ball into the second row's feet on the put-in scrums are totally pointless. Also, penalties in any sport are given against a team seeking to gain an advantage from foul play. How is it foul play if the other team isn't as good at scrummaging as the other team? And how do they hope to gain an advantage by going backwards knowing full well a penalty will be given against them? It's a ridiculous law. If the ball is at the back of the scrum it should be used and that's it.
"One team took one scrum" - which was a pivotal point in a game that was won by 1 point.
"One team took one scrum" - if nothing is done, and SA have their backs against the ropes in the quarter final of the WC 2027, then what is to stop them from doing the same thing if no rules are brought in to balance how effective the scrum is in a game.
The fact is that SA won every single knockout stage by a single point, by having a dominant scrum. If nothing is done then the scrum will become more and more overpowered to the point where only countries with large populations like SA, FRA & ENG will be able to win knockout rugby. Teams like NZ & Ireland won't be able to compete as they simply don't have the monsters to choose from through no fault of their own.
This should be a game for all, and World Rugby needs to grow the sport. It cannot become a game whereby every other facet of the game is secondary to whether or not your country produces 25 stone monsters.
What are you talking about. The Bok pack were 2kg heavier then the Irish pack. The forwards on the bench for Ireland were slightly heavier and taller then the boks forward bench. The Irish backline is heavier then the boks backline.
So basically, more responsibility to the Ref, then they get it wrong leading to more complaints.
If a scrum is selected from a mark/free kick then the only punishment should be a free kick.
The boks did not have the best scrum at the rwc. They were about 4th in wimning % so this affects other better teams more. Boks were at 88% by the final with abs at 94%
It's more about winning the scrums when it matters most, at the end of tight games with a fresh front row. Other teams don't have a 2nd set of world class props.
@@nicobr00 you lost to the abs in the final in a scrum when they had 14 men what on earth are you talking about.
@@MA-ik7ys Excuse me, come again ? We lost neither the scrum nor the game.
@@nicobr00 the only scrum lost on either side was the bok feed.
@@MA-ik7ys You think Faf will feed the scrum after an obvious early push from the AB's ?
If you had a strong second serve in tennis, you don't penalise the game and say you can only serve underarm so that the opponent can return the ball - the opponent needs to adapt and be stronger. What world rugby is doing is penalising teams that work really hard on one element of the game and are dominant in that facet of the game. Should SA win another WC, I wonder what law will change then....
Why dont we get any video on spotify?
It's a music app?
@@myshepspud1 Rogan has video on spotify
They want a fast and interesting game then you need 8 replacements. Brings on fresh legs to keep it fast, and depending on bench strategy can change the game. More interesting than the monotone games of old
But what if they haven't had an early engagement the whole game and it's 78min the dominant scrum is in the 5m and now they have a free pop to engage early and eradicate the scrum?? How can that not be a huge hole? Tell me it's not going to happen somewhere. All on the line and where you should have gotten a penalty and possibly a yellow card you know get nothing but a free kick or tap and go.
1. There’s no new rugby fan who doesn’t want to watch rugby because of scrums. WR are tempering with the soul of rugby, trying to attract new fans
2. Most fans, especially new fans take their queues on what good rugby is from what pundits say. If the pundits say scrums are entertaining, then scrums are entertaining.
3. Changing the laws to be dependent on the ref’s discretion on the day or how many times an infringement has occurred before a certain decision can be made is problematic to a new fan trying to understand the game.
Scrums open the most space on the field. If the scrum from the mark has happened only once then why do this? Its a huge risk calling a scrum in your 22. Because it hurt someone's feelings in the world cup.