I just discovered your content last night while endlessly surfing the internet , frustrated with myself over my inability to fully grasp the "Fun & Games" beat...and I have to say, you maam -- have gained a FAN! I appreciate how difficult it must be to balance writing whilest creating video content to share your wisdom with us mere mortals...I APPRECIATE YOU!!!
Haha thank you!! And I’ve totally been there with getting annoyed over not knowing what to do with fun and games so I’m happy that sharing how I learned to tackle it has been so helpful to other people.
Your video is extremely helpful. Thanks for all the great and useful hints. Like others mentioned, I just stumbled upon your channel . . . and I'm glad I did. I especially like your idea of sprinkling your B character's interactions with the protagonist throughout the story because that usually happens in real life. Great job!!!!
Thank you so much for making this. I had never really understood what was meant by B story and you explain it so well and how it fits in with the rest of the story! I appreciate you so much.
I LOVE LOVE THIS!!! I write MG and I've always wondered if I was doing a decent job with my B-story. Thank you for putting my worries to rest with this generous deep dive into B-story. 💛
Wohooooo! I've been waiting for this!!! :D Do you use the Save-the-Cat-Genres as well? I found that they constrict me quite a bit in my exploring of the story. What I'm finding very interesting with the genres though is that with it the catalyst becomes different and so does the whole story. So if I have one idea, I could make different stories out of it just by following different Save-the -Cat-Genres! Crazy!! I'm very new with using the Beats and have to find my own way of working with them. Oh, so for your couple you are also using the Golden Triangle!! ("Write Your Novel from the Middle" by James Scott Bell), that is such a cool idea!!! What you are saying about the character arcs is very good! I find that it really helps to not only have character arcs for the main character and the B-Story character but the villain as well :) You explain everything so well. It's super helpful!! Thank you!!! Cannot wait til April :D :D :D Sending you love and creative vibes
You know, I’ve looked at the STC genres thing but similarly to you, I found that it made me feel a bit boxed in. I find it difficult to work with genre based beat sheets, and so far the only one that’s works for me is the romancing the beats one, but even then, I tend to tweak it a lot. I do find them interesting but I just haven’t gone in depth with them. But I could see how one idea could come out very differently based on different genre sheets. And having a character arc for the villain too is a really great idea! I could see how that would help so you didn’t just have one dimensional baddies
@@LiselleSambury Thanks for your answer :) I think what I still need to learn is to take ideas from craft books and change them so that I can work with them best, just like you are doing it for yourself :) When it comes to the character arc for the villain it's pretty cool because it gives him/her much more dimension. And they of course have a wound or shard of glass as well which gives them motive to do what they do. I personally really like it when I can somehow on some level sympathize with the bad guys :) Makes it a bit harder to pick sides as a reader ;) Wishing you a wonderful rest of the week :)
@@fralou_sind_kreativ I feel like the more you work with craft books and write the more you figure out how to tweak their frameworks for your own purposes. And absolutely! I always think it makes for a fun story when you start to think the villain has some good points haha
I loveeee these vids! Binging them all ❤ I'm wondering if two protagonists can be each other's b-story? I'm writing a coming of age romance, so as each protagonist grows and matures couldn't they develop in a way that also prompts the development of the other, creating a feedback loop? Similarly, they're each other's main source of conflict.
Glad you’re loving them! And yes! Absolutely, imo. I was writing a story with two POVs (I’ve since dropped out cause I decided it wasn’t relevant enough) and they were each other’s b-plot characters.
So when writing your B-story plotline, how would you handle outlining it? Would most of the “act 1 of B-story set up” (even though B-story are Act 2 characters, they still have something of a past or something that the MC has to be an influence to shift or change) be shown or implied and then fleshed out during the Fun and Games/B-story part of the outline? Like, you set up the character to be one way and, over the course of the vast Act 2, you uncover the B-story character’s own flaw and own backstory and so on. So there’s a push and a pull going on, as the MC uncovers more about this B-story character, they also begin to see their own flaws and thus grow as a character. Sorry if this is a lot. Trying to outline a B-story arc within my outline and its trickier then it looks. Because the B-story doesn’t have a plot outline or anything to follow for an arc. They’re just introduced and yet the story has already kicked off. We can’t slow things down again to have an Act 1 for this character Lol
So the way I often think of it (though this depends on the b story character) is that the b story character is already in the middle of their own story. So probably when the MC and b story meet, the b story character is also in their own act 2 world. The difference is really just how much the reader knows about each of them. But I think you can very quickly establish what the b story character is struggling with even if the MC and reader don’t know why they’re struggling with that. So they can start that push and pull quite early and then the MC may uncover more of the b story character’s backstory as they go. Which I think is what you were trying to say/confirm? But structure wise, I do those conflict points, but I am also overall following the main character’s journey via save the cat. So at the midpoint, something big or some twist will happen and I’ll mirror this in the b story. Or when all is lost or dark night of the soul happens, I’ll create some sort of falling out or danger or something between them and the b story character to follow that path. When they break into act 3 with a resolution, I have some sort of b story resolution. In fun and games, I have up and down conflicts, as in sometimes the MC accepts some of what they’re being taught or helps the b story character, or sometimes they regress in what is being taught to them or the confrontation goes badly. Is that a little more in line with helping with what you’re struggling with? So I’m not necessarily starting the b story character over again with act 2, I’m meeting them where they are and following the MC’s STC trajectory while making space for the b story character’s arc.
My WIP's B story character isn't around for about 24k words from around 30%-55%. 🥴 Are there good stories where the B story character disappears for a while? Or is this indicative of a significant problem? For me, this character does have his own arc, but it doesn't show in the story much, so I don't know if that means the arc needs to be strengthened. The amount of subplot complexity I currently have is already roughly the right amount of words for my genre though...
It’s your story so ultimately it’s up to you! But I feel like there could be ways to work around this. For example, if even though the b story character was gone they were somehow still exerting influence on the MC and challenging them. Like if they were searching for and/or trying to save the b story character and remembering things they learned from that character while making decisions in their favour, and if their behaviour was affected by that. Though if there’s a character that’s with your MC for the whole story, it may be worth looking at seeing if they’re a better fit for the b-story character which they may be. I don’t think it’s a problem necessarily but it may be something to look into if during that period no one is challenging your MC. Typically with that positive arc, you want them to struggle toward that realization and the b story character is helping contribute to that. Though if you think they’re struggling plenty even with the b story character gone, then you might decide you’re fine with keeping that structure
![Save the Cat Deep Dive: Fun & Games [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2PajCAira3I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Save the Cat Deep Dive: Fun & Games [CC]](/img/tr.png)
![Save the Cat Deep Dive: Midpoint [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nQKi2_CpAtA/mqdefault.jpg)
I just discovered your content last night while endlessly surfing the internet , frustrated with myself over my inability to fully grasp the "Fun & Games" beat...and I have to say, you maam -- have gained a FAN! I appreciate how difficult it must be to balance writing whilest creating video content to share your wisdom with us mere mortals...I APPRECIATE YOU!!!
Haha thank you!! And I’ve totally been there with getting annoyed over not knowing what to do with fun and games so I’m happy that sharing how I learned to tackle it has been so helpful to other people.
@@LiselleSambury ❤❤❤👏🙏
Yay! Save The Cat is back!!! 🥰
Yes! I’m determined to try and finish out this series this year haha at least with getting the basic beats down
i love this series so much! soo helpful and i always learn something 💜
Yay! I’m so glad!!
I always struggle with the B Story beat so thank you for your explanation. I love this series and look forward to it every time.
Glad it helped you out!!
I feel called out in the best way to go examine my B characters and make sure they have their own arcs independent of the MC!
Lol glad to help!
can't believe I only saw this series now, this video is so good!! Super helpful and thanks so much for also introducing me to the romance beats book!
Glad you were able to discover the series!! And glad I could introduce you to romancing the beat, I’ve found it so helpful
Your video is extremely helpful. Thanks for all the great and useful hints. Like others mentioned, I just stumbled upon your channel . . . and I'm glad I did. I especially like your idea of sprinkling your B character's interactions with the protagonist throughout the story because that usually happens in real life. Great job!!!!
I’m so happy it helped you!! And yeah I like doing that sprinkling and it’s true that’s how real life is
I love this series so much. Thank you for doing this☺️
Happy to!!
Third time watching this video. My favourite in the series so far. Thank you for this !!!
Amazing! Thank you and I’m so happy you really liked this one
Thank you so much for making this. I had never really understood what was meant by B story and you explain it so well and how it fits in with the rest of the story! I appreciate you so much.
So so happy it was helpful to you!!
I LOVE LOVE THIS!!!
I write MG and I've always wondered if I was doing a decent job with my B-story. Thank you for putting my worries to rest with this generous deep dive into B-story. 💛
Yaaaay!! So happy it could do that for you!
Thank you! This video is just what I was looking for 🙏
Perfect!!
Welcome back.
Thanks!
Wohooooo! I've been waiting for this!!! :D Do you use the Save-the-Cat-Genres as well? I found that they constrict me quite a bit in my exploring of the story. What I'm finding very interesting with the genres though is that with it the catalyst becomes different and so does the whole story. So if I have one idea, I could make different stories out of it just by following different Save-the -Cat-Genres! Crazy!! I'm very new with using the Beats and have to find my own way of working with them.
Oh, so for your couple you are also using the Golden Triangle!! ("Write Your Novel from the Middle" by James Scott Bell), that is such a cool idea!!! What you are saying about the character arcs is very good! I find that it really helps to not only have character arcs for the main character and the B-Story character but the villain as well :)
You explain everything so well. It's super helpful!! Thank you!!!
Cannot wait til April :D :D :D
Sending you love and creative vibes
You know, I’ve looked at the STC genres thing but similarly to you, I found that it made me feel a bit boxed in. I find it difficult to work with genre based beat sheets, and so far the only one that’s works for me is the romancing the beats one, but even then, I tend to tweak it a lot. I do find them interesting but I just haven’t gone in depth with them. But I could see how one idea could come out very differently based on different genre sheets.
And having a character arc for the villain too is a really great idea! I could see how that would help so you didn’t just have one dimensional baddies
@@LiselleSambury Thanks for your answer :) I think what I still need to learn is to take ideas from craft books and change them so that I can work with them best, just like you are doing it for yourself :) When it comes to the character arc for the villain it's pretty cool because it gives him/her much more dimension. And they of course have a wound or shard of glass as well which gives them motive to do what they do. I personally really like it when I can somehow on some level sympathize with the bad guys :) Makes it a bit harder to pick sides as a reader ;)
Wishing you a wonderful rest of the week :)
@@fralou_sind_kreativ I feel like the more you work with craft books and write the more you figure out how to tweak their frameworks for your own purposes. And absolutely! I always think it makes for a fun story when you start to think the villain has some good points haha
I loveeee these vids! Binging them all ❤ I'm wondering if two protagonists can be each other's b-story? I'm writing a coming of age romance, so as each protagonist grows and matures couldn't they develop in a way that also prompts the development of the other, creating a feedback loop? Similarly, they're each other's main source of conflict.
Glad you’re loving them! And yes! Absolutely, imo. I was writing a story with two POVs (I’ve since dropped out cause I decided it wasn’t relevant enough) and they were each other’s b-plot characters.
So when writing your B-story plotline, how would you handle outlining it? Would most of the “act 1 of B-story set up” (even though B-story are Act 2 characters, they still have something of a past or something that the MC has to be an influence to shift or change) be shown or implied and then fleshed out during the Fun and Games/B-story part of the outline? Like, you set up the character to be one way and, over the course of the vast Act 2, you uncover the B-story character’s own flaw and own backstory and so on. So there’s a push and a pull going on, as the MC uncovers more about this B-story character, they also begin to see their own flaws and thus grow as a character.
Sorry if this is a lot. Trying to outline a B-story arc within my outline and its trickier then it looks. Because the B-story doesn’t have a plot outline or anything to follow for an arc. They’re just introduced and yet the story has already kicked off. We can’t slow things down again to have an Act 1 for this character Lol
So the way I often think of it (though this depends on the b story character) is that the b story character is already in the middle of their own story. So probably when the MC and b story meet, the b story character is also in their own act 2 world. The difference is really just how much the reader knows about each of them.
But I think you can very quickly establish what the b story character is struggling with even if the MC and reader don’t know why they’re struggling with that. So they can start that push and pull quite early and then the MC may uncover more of the b story character’s backstory as they go. Which I think is what you were trying to say/confirm?
But structure wise, I do those conflict points, but I am also overall following the main character’s journey via save the cat. So at the midpoint, something big or some twist will happen and I’ll mirror this in the b story. Or when all is lost or dark night of the soul happens, I’ll create some sort of falling out or danger or something between them and the b story character to follow that path. When they break into act 3 with a resolution, I have some sort of b story resolution. In fun and games, I have up and down conflicts, as in sometimes the MC accepts some of what they’re being taught or helps the b story character, or sometimes they regress in what is being taught to them or the confrontation goes badly. Is that a little more in line with helping with what you’re struggling with? So I’m not necessarily starting the b story character over again with act 2, I’m meeting them where they are and following the MC’s STC trajectory while making space for the b story character’s arc.
My WIP's B story character isn't around for about 24k words from around 30%-55%. 🥴 Are there good stories where the B story character disappears for a while? Or is this indicative of a significant problem? For me, this character does have his own arc, but it doesn't show in the story much, so I don't know if that means the arc needs to be strengthened. The amount of subplot complexity I currently have is already roughly the right amount of words for my genre though...
It’s your story so ultimately it’s up to you! But I feel like there could be ways to work around this. For example, if even though the b story character was gone they were somehow still exerting influence on the MC and challenging them. Like if they were searching for and/or trying to save the b story character and remembering things they learned from that character while making decisions in their favour, and if their behaviour was affected by that.
Though if there’s a character that’s with your MC for the whole story, it may be worth looking at seeing if they’re a better fit for the b-story character which they may be.
I don’t think it’s a problem necessarily but it may be something to look into if during that period no one is challenging your MC. Typically with that positive arc, you want them to struggle toward that realization and the b story character is helping contribute to that. Though if you think they’re struggling plenty even with the b story character gone, then you might decide you’re fine with keeping that structure
@@LiselleSambury Thank you for the very helpful response! And for making your videos!