Brother Leighton Flowers I highly admire you as a teacher of truth. A sincere man of God. I totally agree that Calvinist are totally wrong. But you are also wrong about OSAS. You actually expose Once saved always saved in this video. Please just like you want Calvinist to be honest and have a respectful discussion. You should do the same and have a discussion with me about Soteriology?
@@Keepitoriginalministryone saved always saved is not in the Bible. We are initially saved when we believe and accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. That is the free gift. Scripture then talks about how we need to be obedient to Christ's commands. And produce fruits of righteousness through good works. It's not a works based salvation by any means. It's works of the spirit which we were made for.
@@24guitarkid24 sounds good what you said. But you are missing the very important thing. Produce righteousness through The Holy Ghost. A personal relationship with him is a must. You can do good works all you want. But it must be wrought in God. Because of him not you. So that’s why it’s important that we have that personal relationship. But yes I understand what you are saying. FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE
2:10:31 Yep. Many people don't understand the mental/spiritual turmoil Calvinism causes. This is why I appreciate this channel so much. For those of us who used to be calvinist, like myself, this is more than an intellectual issue. It's affected us deeply and this channel provides so much support
@@carsonsnavely4641 Pretty much. I go through phases of how much I identify with labels though but I’ve leaned Baptist almost ever since I became a Christian. And then became introduced to reformed doctrine shortly after that
@@bridgetgolubinski I’ve recently become Presbyterian. I agree that it’s not merely an intellectual question; all doctrines are to be studied and learned through prayer and form devotion to God, especially through the scriptures. I really am encouraged by the Puritans and love their prayer book “The Valley of Vision.” It’s a great book of faithful prayers
@@carsonsnavely4641 That's true, I agree. I meant it more in the sense that for most Christians it's not a topic they will spend a lot of time thinking about and they might not understand why someone would be passionate about soteriology or have an entire youtube channel dedicated to it. I've been meaning to learn more about the Puritans. The Valley of Vision has been on my reading list for a long time, hopefully I'll have time to read it soon.
Paul actually writes in another epistle that we can choose what vessel we want to be. 2 Timothy 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Being a vessel of honor is contingent on us living a sanctified life. Edit: This is what Leighton mentions at 17:00
I’m so glad I found this channel! I found Dr. White in March of last year and, while I appreciate a lot of the work he does in defense of the Bible, there was something about his teachings that I knew I was in opposition to but couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I didn’t realize he was Calvinist 😂😂 just never did the research I guess. This video perfectly articulates a lot of the issues I was having and couldn’t formulate into words
@@danielkim672 It was not taught outside of gnosticism and stoicism for the first 400 years. Calvin writes about that fact! Late Calvinist “scholars” site early writings that outline stoic/gnostic deterministic theology as proof that it was taught, but then leave out the fact that the writer then systematically decimates determinism.
@@cjfoster4179I will roll with that statement for a second, and point out that he lived in the 13th century. So you would have Augustine in the 5th century, whose determinist doctrine was rejected as it had been for the first 500 years, and according to you Thomas 800 years later. I find your claim hard to believe since he is accepted as a Catholic Doctor, and that body of false teachers have always rejected determinism. Someone that takes a Reformed position, leaning on a Catholic hero for proof is quite mind bending. I would love a quote from him, despite the fact a Catholic determinist would have to be boarder-line schizophrenic.
I just finished Economics 101 at Regent University and argued in my final paper that Free Enterprise is only possible when we are free agents and that Calvinism is consistent with socialism/communism. I got a perfect score on that paper despite Regent's chancellor receiving his doctorate from a Calvinist University. Thankfully not all professors at Regent are Calvinists. I doubt I'd have a 4.0 if they were as I've argued against various Calvinist doctrines that I've encountered along the way. I'm currently a junior in pre-law. Please pray I continue to have God's favor.
The amount of mental gymnastics that is required to maintain the inconsistencies of Calvinism is mindbending to me. I don’t know how anyone can live with it and maintain an inner state of integrity and peace.
I encourage you to make an answering calvinist app someday if you get the chance. Keep up the good work, brother. Thank you for freely and willingly doing so.
I can confidently say that I would not be a Christian if Calvinism was correct (which it isn't). This comes from the same moral compass in all of us which would cause one denounce any other false religions. How these people who are comfortable with the implications of God does not unsettle them perturbs me greatly. Do we have completely separate moralities??
@@apilkey i might as well drink myself into oblivion, whore around, gamble, etc. After all, no matter how hard I tried to be pious, I would still go to Hell. On the flip side, even if I wanted to continue indulging in fleshly pleasures, no matter how hard I could try to resist God's will, I would be forced into following Him.
Yeah debate team of the year. Leighton dusted white with his “exegesis” of Romans 9 that hardly mentioned Romans at all. And turek really killed it on the problem of evil against Silverman….very edgy move to play a video of some British AI woman explaining that freewill is a sufficient theodicy lol. It helped me realize that of course God allows rape only because he has so much respect for the rapist’s freewill. Makes perfect sense.
Every now and again I catch up on any Q&A segments Turek has done most recent at universities and noticed recently Turek’s mention of his friend Leighton Flowers and I would get so excited because before in the past he wouldn’t answer free will questions with much depth and refer them to a book. I love that Frank has heard Flower’s views and can answer some students questions deeper now.
White says there’s no place in Scripture that teaches free will! He’s completely wrong about that! The Old Testament in particular refers constantly to the Israelites as ‘ they would not’ and ‘ they did’ and ‘ they did not’ do certain things, which says clearly they could have done the opposite, and that they made a choice! They were told to decide who they would serve, God or false gods. Clearly, there are MANY passages like that throughout the entire Bible, not to mention the places where God himself said he did NOT decree certain things. Talk about willful blindness!
You are confusing "free will" with a "will." We all make choices, but that doesn't require libertarian free will. A child in a crib may make many choices to sleep, yell, or throw toys out, but isn't free because their sovereign has placed them in a cage that greatly limits their options.
Re the comments re temptation. I heard a previous Calvinist say that one of the key scriptures that turned him ultimately away from Calvinism was 1 Corinthians 10:13 re not being tempted beyond what we can bear and God providing a way of escape from it. He thought if God predetermines everything why would He provide a way of escape? Ie provide us a choice?
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
Is there not a significant difference between using a broken pot for God's purpose, and creating a broken pot for God's purpose? Yes, and the difference is important.
I was born, raised and educated a Roman Catholic, which I rejected bout a decade or more ago. Calvinist preach very well on many topics, with exception to Calvinism. Far to often I hear Calvinist argue, it seems, that everything against them must be Arminianism. As I know little of these two, I had thought originally, just leaving the RCC, Protestantism had the answers. Not so easy though. God Bless you Mr Leighton Flowers.
That’s one of my biggest beefs with Calvinist teachers…. “If you aren’t a Calvinist than you are Armenian.” They both start with the same errors in their presuppositions. I so appreciate Dr. Flowers articulating what I could see but never explain.
That’s one of my biggest beefs with Calvinist teachers…. “If you aren’t a Calvinist than you are Armenian.” They both start with the same errors in their presuppositions. I so appreciate Dr. Flowers articulating what I could see but never explain.
I heard someone who is Eastern Orthodox explain that Calvinism ruins christology. Because Christ has to be 100 percent man and tempted like we are, that's not true if we our totally depraved and have no freewill and Christ is perfect and has freewill. So there's a huge bomb because Christ isn't 100 percent man like we are he has freewill. I have never heard this argument before and I think it's a home run.
Paul's Romans 9 objection has to do with Jewish Christians resisting the inclusion of gentile Christians. He's telling the Jews to accept the inclusion of both people's into spiritual Israel. It's less to do with calvy's interpretation and more to do with illustrating how God is saving the entire world, not just the Jews
THE STORY OF JACOB AND ESAU DECALVINIZED God's love for Jacob represented his sovereign choice of Israel. His hate toward Esau represented his rejection of the Gentiles This is what Paul was clearly saying. It is undisputable. The two scriptures Paul quotes make it very clear that God was speaking about nations and not individuals. But the Calvinist refuses to deal with the scriptures Paul quotes. Instead he invokes God's hardening of Pharoah. Calvinists say that God's hardening of Pharoah is proof that God's choice of Jacob and his rejection of Esau is all about individuals. Calvinists want us to just ignore the scriptures Paul quotes about Jacob and Esau and accept their conclusion based on God's hardening of Pharoah. But God's hardening of Pharoah doesn't prove that Jacob and Esau was about individuals because the word pharoah means "house." Pharoah represented the house of Egypt. So God's hardening of Pharoah represents his judgment of Egypt. Now here is the nail in the Calvinist's coffin. Paul quoted the scripture which says that two nations were in view and that the elder shall serve the younger. ESAU NEVER SERVED JACOB. His descendants served Israel but Esau himself never served Jacob. It was the other way around. It was Jacob who bowed to Esau calling him "lord" and himself "your servant." That's right. Jacob said that he was Esau's servant (Genesis 33). This utterly destroys the Calvinist theory that God's choice of Jacob and his rejection of Esau was about individuals. Esau the individual did not serve his younger brother. So what is Paul's point? Here it is. Paul was addressing arrogant Israel. He was showing them that just as God was sovereign in the past and could choose Israel over the Gentiles, so he was still sovereign and could choose Gentiles WITH Israel. Paul wraps it up nicely saying, "Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea, “Those who were not my people, I will now call my people. And I will love him [Esau] whom I hated before.” This is not my writing. I just saved it. This is how I was taught growing up.
Jacob & Esau Hebrews 12 GOD'S FAR REACHING GRACE Jacob said, “No, please, if I have found favor in your sight, then accept my present from my hand. For I have seen your countenance, which is like seeing the face of God, and you have accepted me. Genesis 33:10 Jacob reunited with his brother Esau. They hadn't seen each other for 22 years. Jacob sees that Esau is a transformed man and beholds his countenance and says it was like seeing the face of God. Now Jacob would know what it is like to see the face of God. Jacob had just had an encounter with God in human form. He wrestled with God and prevailed. He saw God's face. Jacob named the place where he saw God's face "Peniel." Ut was right after Peniel that Jacob meets up with his brother Esau and beholds that he is a transformed man. Esau had put away all bitterness and anger for his brother deceiving him out of his birthright. He ran to Jacob and kissed him. Jacob offered Esau gifts and he refused because he was no longer the Esau of worldly pleasures. Jacob saw Esau's transformation in both his character and his countenance. Now the Calvinist will dismiss this part of the story. He will take you straight to Hebrews 12 where it says that Esau sought repentance with tears and it wasn't granted him. But the Calvinist runs to a hasty conclusion as usual. Esau was seeking that his father Isaac reverse the decision about his birthright. His father Isaac WANTED to give Esau his birthright back but it was irreversible. So Hebrews 12 is not about God rejecting repentance from sin. God would never turn away one who repents with tears. Any Calvinist who would say that does not emanate God's face in his own countenance. He doesn't know God at all. That day God taught Jacob how far reaching is his grace. But Calvinists cannot perceive it. Not my summary but found it very informative
@@lukegaier9490 There are somethings in the Bible that is a mystery for sure. I agree not good to insult, but when beginning to end of the Bible, the theme that God sets people apart is throughout, it seems weird that the idea of election and God choosing His people is deemed evil by many. To my vantagepoint, Election and Free Will is harmonized in the BIble.
20:40 my question regarding Rom 5, if Adam’s sin so marred us (original sin/total depravity) and was so universal, then why doesn’t Christ’s work on the cross also universally applied? I’m not a universalist. I just object to the inherent end guilt aspect the Calvinists seem to still hold to. The thing we inherited from Adam was death. The thing is that the resurrection of Jesus is going to be universally applied in the the resurrection of the dead, which is for all men. It is just that some will be resurrected to eternal life while others not.
What we inherited from Adam and Eve is a corrupt body. Sin entered through Adam, we do not 'inherit' Adam's sin. We sin all on our own. In pure theory, if we could live a pure and sinless life, we would not be separated from God. But clearly, no one has done that besides Jesus Christ. Jesus life, death and ressurection is certainly enough to cover ALL sin of ALL humans, but it is not inherited either. So there is. no universalism in salvation.
I thought the whole point of this debate was so that souls can be won and people convinced of the truth. Are you saying you would be happier if he wandered off into darkness still, with his soul still lost? You all have lost sight of the point of this whole thing. Follow Jesus Christ.
@leinenkuge You ain't gotta explain anything to me. If it applies, I humbly ask that, for your own sakes you repent. And if it doesn't, it has no bearing on you.
I'm just wondering; if God is love, and love is not "self seeking," how does God doing something (i.e. making a world capable of evil) for His own glory make any sense whatsoever?
Oh how the devil muddies the waters of the simplicity of the Love of God brought to us through the Gospel of Christ. Indeed our battle is not against flesh and blood {James White} but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Yep, and the same spirit that controls White is seen by many from the reformed camp. Not all, but many reply with basically just what you said. They really are saying: "Who are you O man to question John Calvin"
@@dfischer5878 - so what "scripture" are you referring to?? Gnostic scriptures? Show these two separate wills of God in the Bible! You are just repeating lies told you by others. God has said he wants everyone saved but he didn't decree it?? That makes God a Liar! I'm sure you don't want to be doing that.
@@dfischer5878Have you subscribed to the philosophy of determinism? Because that is not clearly laid out in Scripture. In fact there is good reason to believe determinism is false based on counterfactual knowledge God has in Scripture. Jesus made counterfactual statements. On determinism these statements are incoherent. In a view is incoherent, it shouldn't be preached!
@@maxmustermann1206I hope you would agree there is a difference between the fact that God wants all to be saved, and people (of their own conscious decision) choose darkness rather than light. Both standard biblical concepts. God provides salvation and moves first, but people can resist God's love, and they do all the time. Paul said the Pharisees are stiff-necked and continually resist the Holy Spirit! (Acts 7:51)
My biggest objection to calvinistic readings for certain passages is the resulting superfluousness--why write exhortations if we are all predetermined to behave in a certain way? The Bible becomes superficial and forced.
First question. Did Adam decide to reject the knowledge of the truth from God, that he should not eat of the tree or die or did God predetermined Adam to do it? Predetermine I mean create him to disobey.
God is not the author of confusion or sin. Sinning is a choice. God foreknows all things but without libertarian freedom of the will and responsibility on us there is no true accountability.
@@NikoFinn That's just a question I would love Whites answer on. Of course Adam freely choose to reject God's command in order to fulfill his own desire. God did not create an evil Adam, in fact said Adam was very good, along with all of His original creation. We were chosen in Christ before the world began, predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. He didn't create us to die but to live hallelujah
@@deanlangenfeld495 The devil can only deceive and it was Eve that was deceived not Adam. 1 Timothy 2:14 King James Version 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. The transgression is Adam's transgression, to willingly sin against God. For him who knows good but don't do it, to him it is sin. James 4:17 King James Version 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Why would the Bible be lying to us If Adam didn’t have a free will? Or about the tree in the Garden of Eden ? So from the start, God gives Commandments 613 in the old, over 1000 in the new and says “you don’t literally have to do these. I’m Just faking everybody out.!” What are we gonna be ambiguous about everything cuz God is? White lies, James white lies ! But for real, God wouldn’t We ambiguous , he’s a good god is truly love!
At about 47:00 who is James playing? It sounds like the guy is suggesting that God is metaphysically good as apposed to God acting right from right intentions because He is wise, intelligent, and is not self- centered.
4:53 Here's an at least once a month message. The James White Debate posted on UA-cam is where I first found out about your ministry. The Church that I go to is more moderately in the "Reformed" camp but recently some more extreme Calvinist types started stirring things up so the senior pastor published a study guide for the small groups to explain his more moderate "Reformed" position ("Reformed" in quotes because Lutherans and Anabaptists are also Reformed). I'm not trying to be a rabble rouser but I have brought some of what I'm learning of Provisionalism into discussions, trying to be very diplomatic. My love of the writings of C S Lewis has always kept me from fully embracing the Calvinist perspective and has me even wanting to take a more persuasive rather than combative attitude towards Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
I'd like to be wrong, but my observation about the ministry that is moderately in the Reformed camp is that it tends to discard the moderation over time and go all in.
@@williammarinelli2363well he mentioned Lutherans and they have never done that. Calvinists like to pick and choose from Lutheranism and claim some.stuff for themselves while denouncing the rest. If you compare a confessional Lutheran service and a Reformed Church its like night and day. I took people to a confessional Lutheean church andnthry though it was Catholic. I said, well it was never supposed to be a new Church, we kept everything we could. The reformed ditched even the crosses. Changed the Baptism and Communion and removed the crosses like the m0hammedans do
@@Dilley_G45 When I first became a Christian I went to the church that I remembered as a child that was more traditional. realized that it had gone liberal so I moved over to the "Born-again" Evangelical side but I think this side needs a bit more of a historic grounding. The old traditional one also had a pretty bad reason to get started. The King of England wanted a divorce and the Pope wouldn't let him so he just took over the Church.
We proceed in recognizing God’s sovereignty without putting God to the test by realizing our choice is God’s sovereign design to separate wheat and tares. God is pleading through us to implore everyone on Christ’s behalf (not on behalf of our own works) to be reconciled to God.
Romans nine involves nations , no individuals are ever predestined, that’s the context! Jacob I loved Esau I hated is genesis 25:23 there are two nations in your womb.
An easy thing to overlook in Romans 9 is the trigger language of "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" The idea that a Gentile, only on the condition of faith, could become one of God's people upset Israelites in those days. As Acts 13:45 relates, "But when the Jews (who listened to Paul's message from Acts 13: 16-41 without objection, some believing) saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul." Also consider how the Jerusalem church of Acts 15 tried to placate this mindset.
@@williammarinelli2363 that’s why Jesus gave the Jews 40 years to get their minds wrapped around that the messiah had come before the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. Haggai 2:7-9 Daniel 9:24-27 Say The Messiah would come before the destruction of the second temple! Acts 15 is the first church council where they accepted Salvation to the Gentiles! Same with the 70th week of Daniel, The last seven years; the church will NOT be raptured right away because 2 Thessalonians 2:3, they have to recognize the antichrist & somewhere at the beginning of the 2nd half of the seven years- The Great tribulation, the times of the gentiles will end and God will deal directly with Jews to save the 1/3 remnant! Zachariah 14
@@jjphankthere are two babies in the womb .. yes they are to represent two nations but they are to also represent whoGod chose to make a covenant promise to and whom He did not
@@dfischer5878 Esau, despises His birthright in the story of Jacob and Esau, read it in genesis! Gods fore knowledge is exercised, but there’s no predestination with individuals ever, even in Ephesians 1! Later on Esau married an Ishmaelite, & The Arab nation was born so God foreknew that ! See genesis 36 about the lineage of the Arabs and God has a blessing for them because he said he’ll bless Ishmael to a degree, because they’re from Abrahams lineage, And fulfilling God’s promise that he will bless all nations from his loins! Keep Romans nine And Ephesians 1 in context , don’t get out of bounds with God’s word, you’ll be in trouble!
If you Google “mindless gibberish” the Internet’s AI algorithm whirls in confusion briefly, much like Hal 9000's final moments, then redirects you to either “the Westminster Confession of Faith” or “Alpha and Omega Ministries”!
At least White is critiquing someone of his own weight class for once, instead of punching down at little startup UA-camrs just because the left Calvinism.
It's interesting when you mentioned about the view from Calvinists that something is good because God declares it to be good, because that reminds of Euthyphro's dilemma, where the Greeks asked, "Do the gods love good action because it is good, or is good action good because it is loved by the gods?" The answer to this dilemma is that something is good because God Himself is good, so any action or statement that He makes will necessarily be good and will never be evil in nature.
Therefore God is just if he allows all to be condemned. But instead because of his grace, he loves and graciously chose this song for his own glory and purposes
As someone not committed to either side, it's frustrating that the free will side always starts with, "If there is no free will God is evil." This really discredits the speaker to me as I dont trust mankind to judge God. Give me scriptures and let them speak, not your human judgement on what God ought to be.
If they challenged me with Rom 9 I’d say, do you follow man, or Christ? Jesus Christ said He didn’t make man for Hell. So who are you to challenge God’s goodness with man’s tradition?
@@hlawulekamaswanganyi6438 Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Maybe Hell was originally created for the devil and his angels, but people will definitely go there. "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)
I believe God did predetermine we have free will yet the exercise of this free will did not occur until Adam was formed and given instructions. What we do with this free and unmerited gift is solely on the us!
@dfischer5878 Eve had free will only she was deceived into sin. Just as our flesh is incapable of culpability! Eve was the flesh of Adam, literally. As she was of Adam, taking from him. Adam was supposed to keep Eve, as he was to keep the Garden. Keep: to keep, have charge of to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life, to keep, preserve, protect. He did not and she fell for the subtle deception of the serpent.
Watching now! Missed it live…James White can have the house full, but he is still wrong. I don’t understand why people idolize him so much. Seems like a nasty man to me.
@@krazzykracker2564 You can't be self-righteous when salvation belongs to God. But you can be self-righteous if you can choose whether or not you want to be saved.
@@maxmustermann1206 How does recognizing you are totally lost and incapable of saving yourself mean your self righteous? Just because you accept help from the Saviour doesn't mean you saved yourself.
Why is James so dishonest? Why didn’t James give the video clips of his and Frank’s response to David Silverman? He just makes these wild claims without any proof!
I prefer the shorter videos. But decided to watch this because I love Frank Turek. Btw, Leighton, I mentioned your name under one of Frank’s shorts and got all kinds of positive and negative feedback.
My respect brother LF. James White's explanation of the gospel is nauseating to me. Before I knew what Calvinism is, I heard him speak once and thought the man is his biggest fan. There was something off about him, couldn't place it exactly till I read up on Calvinism.
For reals; God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
You're lying to yourself. “Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,” II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV
@ 27:40, "...age of accountability... " So, junior Calvinists argued the earliest part of my testimony and said I could not have known I sinned against God at the tender age of 6, because I never heard the Gospel. But I heard the Torah read at temple, and believed something about the God of the Torah. I wasn't saved then (at 6yo), and was saved much later in life by believing The Gospel preached , but many do NOT factor-in the conscience when a sinner understands they're a sinner at whatever age...!
And I found Dr. White’s book the King James only controversy at a thrift store. From there I began watching his videos, while I enjoyed many of his videos on the Trinity Bible translations, and dealing with groups such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was disappointed to find out he was a Calvinist. Thank goodness I found your videos through his videos.
Quite frankly, I disagree with him on the KJV as well. I highly recommend every Bible believer to read it! The KJV Bible is the most printed book in history for a reason!
elijahmorris9864: And isn't it 2 lessons for us: 1. PAY attention to where sentence of a preacher/teacher, and 2. At what point do we no longer listen to a preacher/teacher? We do learn by being open to various points of view, thinking, analyzing and noticing inconsistencies. Should we all ask ourselves what are the standards we uphold in those we decide to follow? My decision of who to stop following are: 1. Behavioral conduct. I care not what "truth," a preacher/teacher asserts, IF, he does not behave as a Christian should. 2. The teaching must align with my understanding of scripture. Scripture, the inspired word of God, was written for the people, not for theologians or church leaders. 3. On all questions regarding salvation, an answer of, "it's a mystery," is unsatisfactory. God would not allow mystery on the topic of how we are saved. The entire N.T. is on salvation. 4. Clear contradictions in the teaching that the teacher ignores. 5. If I can't understand or make sense of the preachers presentation. Even though the confusion may be my fault. These are my standards. Each Christian should establish their standards.
Funny, bc Pauls interlocator in that passage is implying determinism. Strange, a determinist would twist it like this. But, like the rest of scripture, it doesn't ever mean what it says (Sigh...😮)
Romans 9:1-3 Paul wishes he could be cut off for the sake of his people Israel, so he didn’t understand Calvinism either otherwise he wouldn’t have said that!
We are at a pivotal point in church history. We no longer need exegesis works. We now know that exegesis is Dr White reading a verse, putting a few Greeks words in, and telling us what it means. 😅
"We no longer need exegesis works." That's the problem with "Christians" today. They'd rather eisegete Scripture instead of exegete Scripture. They'd rather put their own meaning to Scripture instead of drawing the meaning from Scripture itself.
God does NOT cast a shifting shadow of change - according to the scriptures. So who are you? oh, Calvinist, to question the unchanging nature and will of God with your unbiblical, shifting sands of "two wills of God," nonsense? If God's nature is unchanging (and unshifting) and His will follows from His nature, then He can't have two separate and contradictory wills. If God's will does not follow from His nature, than what God wills is not in accord with His nature and therefore, He'd be shifting and changing. That's both illogical and unscriptural. There is no tenable position for the Calvinist and their unbiblical view of God's supposed schizophrenia on Calvinism. Even a child could understand it's a clear contradiction.
I always cringe then laugh when someone says, they could not answer my argument. JW's and Mormon's say this all the time but that doesn't make their arguments valid.
Exactly, I had a provisionist tell me that babies get annihilated, then said that people don't know how to answer him when he tells them that - as if not answering him makes his answers correct.
I find it really funny that debates around Calvinism consumes so much time for mostly American Evangelical churches and Pastors, either for or against. I lived for a number of years in the Indian Subcontinent and travelled the middle East and North Africa and interacted with Christians all over the world and NO ONE CARES one way or the other. I am sinner saved by grace. I am a product of God's mercy, forgiveness, made possible through the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing else matters. ✝️👍♥️🙏
Amen. This is nonsensical. We ought to be fighting for the lost, teaching people to give alms, showing people the love of Christ. Yet here we are, arguing about whether we think God controls absolutely everything, or mostly everything. This isn't the calling of God to the people of God. This isn't what Jesus died for.
Some people think, and the bible speaks to it, that what we believe about God’s character and the gospel message are important. But here is an easy solution for you if it bothers you terribly; don’t participate. What would stop us from doing both the study to understand these things, and sharing the gospel? Do you spend every waking hour talking to the lost about Jesus?
@@DMilbury you see, THIS is the problem. Instead of saying something like, "we're taught by God yo study to show ourselves approved and to teach in love and meekness. We can't ignore our calling," you decide you don't like what he's saying, and tell him if he doesn't like it, he can go somewhere where people care. Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't the same Scriptures you love so much say to wash one another's feet? In reading the Bible, have you forgotten to follow the words?
@DMilbury and is it under YOUR authority to tell one of the children of God to not participate in the things of God? His whole point isn't that we should stop discussing the word of God. It's the argument part, and the narrow-minded focus on trying to disprove this or that doctrine. We have alot of callings, and preaching the gospel and teaching doctrine are two of them, not all of them.
@jesusforever4729 If heresies condemned from the earliest church fathers pop back up in interpreting the bible, in discussion and infiltrate the church, what should the response be? What did the early church fathers do with these, if you know? Who cares if God is ultimately ordering rapes, murders and every other evil under the sun ......by decree? People aren't being saved .......because of decree, people are doing evil ......because of decree, or do we just say "Oh well, it doesn't matter, nobody cares, I'm being saved anyways..!"?? When atheists argue that God is not worthy of worship because he causes evil, pain and suffering by his unchangable decree and the atheist would never worship a duplicious god like that, you'll just have to sit there dumbfounded. I find that sad, not funny. There are plenty of REAL LIFE ramifications why we need proper biblical exegesis to inform our life choices. I honestly don't think you've really thought through the real life issues and eventual ramifications of correctly dividing the Word to understand our most Holy God and his relationship to mankind. Edit: Tip: God does not decree evil.
Paul’s writings seem so clear to me. If I didn’t know any better, I would think these Determinists are intentionally mis-interpreting them. I just don’t see how they can come to the conclusions they do.
Jimmy has gone so far down the rabbit hole, there is no turning back up. But this is a plus for the Calvinists who are questioning their doctrines. Jimmy's ridiculous and pompous responses will lead many of them to the truth of Scripture. Praise God.
Chiming in on the Lazarus and the tomb bit. The prodigal son was not forced to come home by the father. No, the prodigal son came to his senses, realizing the state of his situation. He repented and went to the father with no expectation with a hope he could be the least in his father's house; a servant to his father's servants. Humbly, a contrite heart. Edit: At about 1:12 White compares Egyptian soldiers with Jews. Why does he not compare Egyptian soldiers with the Israel? Are there not twelve tribes? What am I missing? 1:53:25 Question: How can I borrow from a universalist perspective when I have never heard it, as you posit? Notwithstanding the fact that the universalist's are more inline with White's belief: God has chosen to save all without condition or chosen to save the few, the proud, the ma--calvinists... without condition. No, my friend, God has chosen to save all... through His Son; those who trust in Him; that is the condition. 2:00:00 Question: is there a Christian that thinks that there is something God does *not* know? How is that possible?
The problem with your first point is that there are a great many things that are missing or added to that parable. Because it's a PARABLE, not a one to one exact replica of the whole scenario. Because Jesus, in fact, says he has come to seek and to save the lost. The prodigal son came of his own accord, not because someone came looking for him. That's one problem. Another would be the fact that the Lord doesn't have two sons, he has one. There isn't a schism in the body of Jesus for the Jews and the Gentiles, which is the point Jesus is making with this parable. The older brother is the Jewish people, who are proud of their heritage and the law. The younger, prodigal son is the Gentiles who have strayed so far from God. For us God looks for and seeks and rejoices in, not in those who don't need his mercy, yet another point made by Jesus in parable. Parables are not one to one exact replicas of the whole gospel, just a small part of it.
did the egyptians not have the opportunity to come under the blood as to be saved, but choose not to, though some did...after this rejection of a means of salvation they are punished for rebelling and trying to destroy those who had been saved by the blood.
1:10:45 - this is shocking to me. “Where do you get the idea that God wants every single person to be saved?” From the gospel! God’s plan of salvation to the nations! Does Mr White really not know why Jesus came to the earth? I guess he would say it was to save a handful of people who didn’t really need saving because they were predetermined to go to heaven before they were created anyway. Calvinism is not just another view of soteriology or another (bad) hermeneutic. They worship a different God. A God with a different character and different goals.
"For God so loved every single person that He gave His only begotten Son..." - says no Bible verse. "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of every single person." - says no Bible verse.
Who are the "any" in 2 Peter 3:9? I think you inserted a word that wasn't there. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) All throughout 2 Peter, he uses the pronouns "we" and "us." Who are the "we" and the "us"? You have to go back to the beginning of 2 Peter chapter 1. The letter of 2 Peter was written to believers. The Lord is not wishing that any [of us; believer] should perish. Context is key.
When you hear the label Reformed you think from Catholicism but not the gospel!!! Just like the shock when you learn the immaculate conception is concerning Mary and not Jesus!!! Leaves us in a state of shock in both cases!!!
I wish people would stop using the archaic word "apologetics" (which today has the negative meaning of "apologizing" for something wrong or ignorant) and use "defense of the faith" instead. "Defense of the faith" is a much clearer and stronger term for today's world.
Can you give an example of somewhere that apologetics carries your negative definition? I have never run across anything close to that in decades of reading theology and philosophy.
@@randybrandt6459 What I mean is that in the minds of average people today the word "apologize" is connected with something wrong for which people are ashamed and must "apologize". True, this is not the connotation in theological circles. Because the Bible and the gospel are always under attack, it seems to me it would be more effective in reaching the "non-theological mind" to use words that are more "positive" to their understanding: We are "defending the faith" with the plentiful evidence that exists for it, not apologizing for Christianity. We are not ashamed of Christianity and the gospel. Average people do not think in the terms used by theologians. They "apologize" only for things that are wrong or deficient.
@@beaulin5628 I think it's an opportunity to explain the actual meaning to people ("a reasoned defense" originating in the ancient Greek legal system) but you should know your audience, so whatever works for them is best. Either way, making the defense is paramount!
@@randybrandt6459 What you say is true. But my concern in reaching unbelievers of today is to separate the negative connotation of this word (as it is understood in average minds) from Christianity. Having to explain this theological word just gets in the way. I think it is a better "defense "to directly say what the word means: "Defense of the faith". We are not ashamed of Christianity and the gospel, we are delighted with it ! We are thrilled that Jesus has provided the whole human race with victory over death (if they are interested). We have the true "Fountain of Youth" and the only "Elixer" that can give life from the dead! This theological word does not reflect our certainty, joy, and optimism in my opinion. ( Blessings to you.)
How do Calvinists skip past the first to verses of Romans 5 and not realize Paul just said the exact opposite of Calvinism? It even specifies that the grace being referred to is THAT IN WHICH WE NOW STAND, which is the grace of salvation.
@@maxmustermann1206 Where does it say the God created some for hell and others for damnation? Is applied PREDESTINATION for SANCTIFICATION. for these WHO LOVE HIM.
@@maxmustermann1206 Dear Max, Jeffreybomba was only presenting an example of an eisegesis derived statement, not assuming what you believe, nor about me, or about anything other than what he was saying the passage doesn't mean and then following that up with what it DOES mean. You don't need statements in the Bible to say "Man is relatively free to make choices", because not only real life, but scriptures are full of examples of man's free choices, good and bad, that God is not responsible for, but which the man will be judged for. The salvation that God offers only works if man is in the image of God, a free will free action conscious entity.
Why does Leighton use the term "total inability" when total depravity is the doctrine that calvinist teach? Also, no one is believing the gospel without the Holy Spirit convicting the world if sin, righteousness and judgement. The difference it seems to be between Leighton and calvinists, is that Leighton believes it can be resisted and calvinists think it can't. It seems that belief and regeneration happen at the same time?
@@shredhed572 I understand. And non-calvinists would say belief precedes regeneration. Scripture says the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. It seems that regeneration and belief happen at the same time. Both sides could easily be arguing and both be wrong.
Even leading Calvinists such as Sproul and MacArthur refer to a “radical inability” so as to distinguish what the Calvinist is teaching versus simply saying that men are sinfully depraved.
@@shredhed572 "No, I've never heard a calvinist say they were convicted of sin." I hear it all the time during baptisms at Grace Community Church during their live-streams. I never hear conviction of sin during baptisms at Bethel (Bill Johnson's Church)
I love how Dr. White goes on about challenging Turek to a debate and Turek not acknowledging Dr. White's existence. It doesn't take rocket science to recognize that Dr. White is not an honest debater looking to bring understanding of God's Will and Word. Dr. White is looking to feed his ego and score a "win." Any person with an ounce of wisdom would avoid engaging Dr. White.
To pay for sins and ACTUALLY save people. In Arminianism and Provisionism, Jesus paid for sins on the cross with only the hope of saving people; there's no guarantee that He will actually save anyone.
@@maxmustermann1206 So those who were chosen by God to be saved could only be saved if Jesus paid for their sins on the cross? "Go ye into the world and tell them.....you might be one of the elect or not."
@@maxmustermann1206 Did you even watch the video you're commenting on? He explains your misunderstanding well. "Go ye into the world and tell them.....you might be one of the elect or not."
Bottom line is, if God has predestined them from the beginning, then there is no point preaching the gospel, because God is going to save them anyway. Why do apologetics? if the only ones coming to God are those that He chose. It makes no sense.
It makes no sense for Arminians and Provisionists to share the gospel. If God wants to save people, tries to save them, He sent Jesus to pay for theirs sins...So he's done all that He can and can't actually save anyone on His own (which Scripture doesn't teach, but proponents of free-will preach), then why are YOU sharing the gospel?
@@maxmustermann1206 For the obvious reason that not everyone in the world has heard it. Millions never heard of Jesus and millions of atheists might of heard of Jesus but have never looked into it. So they won't know the evidence to show facts. That question does not work the same way as it does for you that believe predestination.
@@servant2Christ You completely missed the point. Is the gospel the power of God unto salvation (as the Bible teaches and Calvinists believe) or is man's free will the power unto salvation (as a lot of Provisionists on the site are saying)? If salvation is in the power of man's free will and not God, why do you share the gospel?
@@maxmustermann1206 We are saved by grace, It's the free gift from God. The gospel is the good news on how to get this free gift, that's what gospel means. But man has the free will to accept or reject. The Bible teaches that clearly. God is not going to force anyone to love him, therefore predestination goes against free will. But true salvation is receiving God's grace which is having a regenerated heart, a desire to his will. We are not saved by works but true salvation produces works. Faith without works is dead faith, and works without faith are not true works. We are rewarded for work. 1 Corinthians 3. We cannot lose salvation if it's a true salvation as described but we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are saved.
John 5:28-29 says that both the good (saved) and the evil (unsaved) will be resurrected when they hear the voice of the Son of man! James pretends that only the regenerate would be called out of death. That is not true, both the evil and the good will be called!!
No, Calvinists believe that we are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone, according to Scriptures alone, for the Glory of God alone. Contrast that with what @gk.4102 said above: "Jesus has done His part, now the sinner needs to do his." @gk.4102 doesn't believe that we're saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone. His also putting trust in something he does.
@@maxmustermann1206 Calvinists believe God is evil for he arbitrarily sends most to hell and saves a few for heaven. An infinitely powerful God could have stopped Adam but instead chose not too, thus dooming all. And now chooses to pluck a few out. This is a wicked God, an unbiblical God and therefore a false idol. Calvinists flirt with idolatry. The biblical true God is love, and is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. He wants all to be saved. But man must choose to believe in the good news of Jesus Christ.
@@jass0033 "Calvinists believe God is evil..." False. God created a perfect world. Adam and Eve disobeyed God, thus bring sin and death into the world (Romans 5:12) "for he arbitrarily sends most to hell..." False, He sends them to Hell for not repenting and not believing in Him. "and saves a few for heaven." True. (Matthew 7:13-14) Only believers will go to heaven. Unbelievers will not. "An infinitely powerful God could have stopped Adam but instead chose not too, thus dooming all." So you're saying the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)? It is certainly true that He allowed Adam to sin, but that doesn't mean that He is not all-powerful. "The biblical true God is love" Yes, and He is also just, which is why He must also punish sin. Jesus will pay for the sins of the believers, unbelievers will pay for their own sins in Hell.
Let’s all pray for Dr. White, that God would remove the scales from his eyes and that he would look at Scripture afresh and let Scripture define its own terms. May he turn from being a defender of Calvinism to bering one who exposes its errors.
I pray our brothers in Christ reject qualifying labels like reformed or Calvinism. We’re Christ’s and Christ is God’s. The Bible is enough, adding other documentation to it is idolatry. Beloved test the spirits to see if they are from God. Christ came in simple flesh, simple faith is the honest response.
@@maxmustermann1206 I am determined not to know anything except Jesus Christ and Him crucified, so I may be useful to God and men. Please consider 2 Timothy 2:14, and Titus 3:9. Please join me in praying for unity for the Church! Meditation on 1 John and John 17 and 1 Corinthians 13 will help. I’m saying this from a deep love for my brothers in Christ, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
@ 1:11:30 White uses 2 pathetic examples to claim that God hated people unconditionally and did no desire their salvation. 1) White says that God didn’t love or desire the repentance of neighboring nations is proven by God not sending His prophets to those nations. But White is simply wrong as a careful study of the OT shows that God’s revelation of His righteousness in the law was evidence to all of the surrounding nations AND God DID SEND His prophets to neighboring nations and their Kings. Did White forget all of this? 2) God destroying Pharaoh’s army was part of Israel’s deliverance and SURVIVAL of His earthly representative as descendants of Abraham, through whom God would bring His light and salvation into the world. God destroying Pharaoh’s army has nothing to do with God hating them all and not desiring their repentance, White KNOWS that. Their destruction that day was in judgment and to deliver Israel as the nation would eventually be used to write God’s word and bring forth the Savior of the world. White is making a catagory error. And White even acknowldged that many of the Israelites that God delivered from Pharaoh soon after died because of their evil unbelief!
Im a recovered alcoholic and drug addict Jesus saved me 30 years ago If i had been approached by a calvinist i would have continued as a crackhead alcoholic because i would have been sure i wasnt elected/selected Ive read thr Bible 100 times in the last 30 years and i believe calvinism is an evil thread running through Christianity Thank you Jesus for giving us all a chance at salvation. I wouldn't be able to honestly help other addicts get to Jesus if calvinism was true!!Id be lying to them if i said Jesus guarantees forgiveness and eternal life to all who repent and Accept The Crucified and Resurrected Christ!Calvinism is a cancer in Christianity!!
I'm sorry to hear that Arminians and Provisionist lied to you about Calvinism. Believers are the elect. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
How amazing would it be if God, like He did with Paul, removed the scales from James Whites eyes and James White renounced his Calvinism and started teaching Provisionism. I pray.
James White is the fulfillment of God's word about a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm sorry, I'm not recognizing this guy a brother in Christ. Calvinism is cultic and demonic doctrine yet this guy defended it and would die for it. We have a different Spirit in us.
He's telling the truth and being honest about the God of the bible. “Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,” II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV
Details on the debate: www.tickettailor.com/events/firstlutheran/1004040?ref=facebook
Just bought my tickets, see you then.
Will this debate be live streamed or posted online afterwards?
Brother Leighton Flowers I highly admire you as a teacher of truth. A sincere man of God. I totally agree that Calvinist are totally wrong. But you are also wrong about OSAS. You actually expose Once saved always saved in this video. Please just like you want Calvinist to be honest and have a respectful discussion. You should do the same and have a discussion with me about Soteriology?
@@Keepitoriginalministryone saved always saved is not in the Bible. We are initially saved when we believe and accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. That is the free gift. Scripture then talks about how we need to be obedient to Christ's commands. And produce fruits of righteousness through good works. It's not a works based salvation by any means. It's works of the spirit which we were made for.
@@24guitarkid24 sounds good what you said. But you are missing the very important thing. Produce righteousness through The Holy Ghost. A personal relationship with him is a must. You can do good works all you want. But it must be wrought in God. Because of him not you. So that’s why it’s important that we have that personal relationship. But yes I understand what you are saying. FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE
2:10:31 Yep. Many people don't understand the mental/spiritual turmoil Calvinism causes. This is why I appreciate this channel so much. For those of us who used to be calvinist, like myself, this is more than an intellectual issue. It's affected us deeply and this channel provides so much support
were you reformed baptist?
@@carsonsnavely4641 Pretty much. I go through phases of how much I identify with labels though but I’ve leaned Baptist almost ever since I became a Christian. And then became introduced to reformed doctrine shortly after that
@@bridgetgolubinski I’ve recently become Presbyterian. I agree that it’s not merely an intellectual question; all doctrines are to be studied and learned through prayer and form devotion to God, especially through the scriptures.
I really am encouraged by the Puritans and love their prayer book “The Valley of Vision.” It’s a great book of faithful prayers
@@carsonsnavely4641 That's true, I agree. I meant it more in the sense that for most Christians it's not a topic they will spend a lot of time thinking about and they might not understand why someone would be passionate about soteriology or have an entire youtube channel dedicated to it.
I've been meaning to learn more about the Puritans. The Valley of Vision has been on my reading list for a long time, hopefully I'll have time to read it soon.
Just like a cult. People in a cult are also under mental and spiritual turmoil.
Paul actually writes in another epistle that we can choose what vessel we want to be.
2 Timothy 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
Being a vessel of honor is contingent on us living a sanctified life.
Edit: This is what Leighton mentions at 17:00
Good point.
Yeah, good one! ☺️
This is actually mentioned by Leighton. At 17:00
He goes over this in the video😂🤣
@@jeffreybomba yeah he mentioned it literally one minute after I wrote the comment lol
But it is a long video so it might be useful to the reader's
I’m so glad I found this channel! I found Dr. White in March of last year and, while I appreciate a lot of the work he does in defense of the Bible, there was something about his teachings that I knew I was in opposition to but couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I didn’t realize he was Calvinist 😂😂 just never did the research I guess. This video perfectly articulates a lot of the issues I was having and couldn’t formulate into words
Not only was determinism pushed into mainstream in the 5th century, but it was rejected as heresy until the 16th century.
Who rejected this as heresy? The Roman Catholic Church?
@@danielkim672 It was not taught outside of gnosticism and stoicism for the first 400 years. Calvin writes about that fact! Late Calvinist “scholars” site early writings that outline stoic/gnostic deterministic theology as proof that it was taught, but then leave out the fact that the writer then systematically decimates determinism.
The Catholic church rejected it?
You do know aquinas believed in predestination right?
@@cjfoster4179I will roll with that statement for a second, and point out that he lived in the 13th century. So you would have Augustine in the 5th century, whose determinist doctrine was rejected as it had been for the first 500 years, and according to you Thomas 800 years later.
I find your claim hard to believe since he is accepted as a Catholic Doctor, and that body of false teachers have always rejected determinism. Someone that takes a Reformed position, leaning on a Catholic hero for proof is quite mind bending. I would love a quote from him, despite the fact a Catholic determinist would have to be boarder-line schizophrenic.
I just finished Economics 101 at Regent University and argued in my final paper that Free Enterprise is only possible when we are free agents and that Calvinism is consistent with socialism/communism. I got a perfect score on that paper despite Regent's chancellor receiving his doctorate from a Calvinist University. Thankfully not all professors at Regent are Calvinists. I doubt I'd have a 4.0 if they were as I've argued against various Calvinist doctrines that I've encountered along the way. I'm currently a junior in pre-law. Please pray I continue to have God's favor.
societal systemic determinism - marx, bio determinism- Darwin, psycho sexual determinism-Freud, God meticulous determinism - Augustine et al
Leighton, thank you so much for your videos. You are one of the main reasons that I have came out of Calvinism.
The amount of mental gymnastics that is required to maintain the inconsistencies of Calvinism is mindbending to me. I don’t know how anyone can live with it and maintain an inner state of integrity and peace.
I encourage you to make an answering calvinist app someday if you get the chance. Keep up the good work, brother. Thank you for freely and willingly doing so.
I can confidently say that I would not be a Christian if Calvinism was correct (which it isn't).
This comes from the same moral compass in all of us which would cause one denounce any other false religions. How these people who are comfortable with the implications of God does not unsettle them perturbs me greatly. Do we have completely separate moralities??
Well to be fair if Calvinism were correct then you wouldn’t have a choice if you were a Christian or not because it would be predetermined
@@apilkey i might as well drink myself into oblivion, whore around, gamble, etc. After all, no matter how hard I tried to be pious, I would still go to Hell.
On the flip side, even if I wanted to continue indulging in fleshly pleasures, no matter how hard I could try to resist God's will, I would be forced into following Him.
Dear Kevin, if Calvinism were true you wouldn't have choice, whether or not you are a Christian would not depend on you.
lol
Why do you find the sovereignty of God unsettling?
Frank and Leighton!! What a duo!!
Yeah debate team of the year. Leighton dusted white with his “exegesis” of Romans 9 that hardly mentioned Romans at all. And turek really killed it on the problem of evil against Silverman….very edgy move to play a video of some British AI woman explaining that freewill is a sufficient theodicy lol. It helped me realize that of course God allows rape only because he has so much respect for the rapist’s freewill. Makes perfect sense.
Every now and again I catch up on any Q&A segments Turek has done most recent at universities and noticed recently Turek’s mention of his friend Leighton Flowers and I would get so excited because before in the past he wouldn’t answer free will questions with much depth and refer them to a book. I love that Frank has heard Flower’s views and can answer some students questions deeper now.
White says there’s no place in Scripture that teaches free will! He’s completely wrong about that! The Old Testament in particular refers constantly to the Israelites as ‘ they would not’ and ‘ they did’ and ‘ they did not’ do certain things, which says clearly they could have done the opposite, and that they made a choice! They were told to decide who they would serve, God or false gods. Clearly, there are MANY passages like that throughout the entire Bible, not to mention the places where God himself said he did NOT decree certain things. Talk about willful blindness!
Speaking of disobedience….
You are confusing "free will" with a "will." We all make choices, but that doesn't require libertarian free will. A child in a crib may make many choices to sleep, yell, or throw toys out, but isn't free because their sovereign has placed them in a cage that greatly limits their options.
Free will and will are the same thing. The mental gymnastics that some folks go through….
@@uncommonsense6295 Then you have to say Calvinists believe in free will.
You are absolutely correct. We have free will. God is not evil. But these Calvinist are claiming exactly that he is evil.
Re the comments re temptation. I heard a previous Calvinist say that one of the key scriptures that turned him ultimately away from Calvinism was 1 Corinthians 10:13 re not being tempted beyond what we can bear and God providing a way of escape from it. He thought if God predetermines everything why would He provide a way of escape? Ie provide us a choice?
As C. S. Lewis wrote, "Can one castrate and bid the gildings yield?"
geldings
Translate please 🤣
Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God DOES NOT make us responsible for Adam's sin!!! Is James White really that blind???!!!!
God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
Slam dunk!
Is there not a significant difference between using a broken pot for God's purpose, and creating a broken pot for God's purpose?
Yes, and the difference is important.
I was born, raised and educated a Roman Catholic, which I rejected bout a decade or more ago. Calvinist preach very well on many topics, with exception to Calvinism.
Far to often I hear Calvinist argue, it seems, that everything against them must be Arminianism. As I know little of these two, I had thought originally, just leaving the RCC, Protestantism had the answers. Not so easy though.
God Bless you Mr Leighton Flowers.
Good move leaving RCC. Excellent move. Just be a Christian. That’s all that’s necessary. I would also avoid 5 point Calvinism. God bless!
That’s one of my biggest beefs with Calvinist teachers…. “If you aren’t a Calvinist than you are Armenian.” They both start with the same errors in their presuppositions. I so appreciate Dr. Flowers articulating what I could see but never explain.
That’s one of my biggest beefs with Calvinist teachers…. “If you aren’t a Calvinist than you are Armenian.” They both start with the same errors in their presuppositions. I so appreciate Dr. Flowers articulating what I could see but never explain.
Wow, that episode was jam packed! Thank you Dr. Flowers for all your hard work and patience in putting all this together. Very encouraging...
Good stream Leighton. God is Holy and good and righteous 🙏 Calvinism is an attack on the Holiness of God
I heard someone who is Eastern Orthodox explain that Calvinism ruins christology. Because Christ has to be 100 percent man and tempted like we are, that's not true if we our totally depraved and have no freewill and Christ is perfect and has freewill. So there's a huge bomb because Christ isn't 100 percent man like we are he has freewill. I have never heard this argument before and I think it's a home run.
Paul's Romans 9 objection has to do with Jewish Christians resisting the inclusion of gentile Christians. He's telling the Jews to accept the inclusion of both people's into spiritual Israel. It's less to do with calvy's interpretation and more to do with illustrating how God is saving the entire world, not just the Jews
Spot on.
Wow I never thought of it that way but it all makes sense now.
THE STORY OF JACOB AND ESAU DECALVINIZED
God's love for Jacob represented his sovereign choice of Israel. His hate toward Esau represented his rejection of the Gentiles This is what Paul was clearly saying. It is undisputable. The two scriptures Paul quotes make it very clear that God was speaking about nations and not individuals. But the Calvinist refuses to deal with the scriptures Paul quotes. Instead he invokes God's hardening of Pharoah. Calvinists say that God's hardening of Pharoah is proof that God's choice of Jacob and his rejection of Esau is all about individuals. Calvinists want us to just ignore the scriptures Paul quotes about Jacob and Esau and accept their conclusion based on God's hardening of Pharoah.
But God's hardening of Pharoah doesn't prove that Jacob and Esau was about individuals because the word pharoah means "house." Pharoah represented the house of Egypt. So God's hardening of Pharoah represents his judgment of Egypt.
Now here is the nail in the Calvinist's coffin. Paul quoted the scripture which says that two nations were in view and that the elder shall serve the younger. ESAU NEVER SERVED JACOB. His descendants served Israel but Esau himself never served Jacob. It was the other way around. It was Jacob who bowed to Esau calling him "lord" and himself "your servant." That's right. Jacob said that he was Esau's servant (Genesis 33). This utterly destroys the Calvinist theory that God's choice of Jacob and his rejection of Esau was about individuals. Esau the individual did not serve his younger brother.
So what is Paul's point? Here it is. Paul was addressing arrogant Israel. He was showing them that just as God was sovereign in the past and could choose Israel over the Gentiles, so he was still sovereign and could choose Gentiles WITH Israel. Paul wraps it up nicely saying,
"Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea, “Those who were not my people, I will now call my people. And I will love him [Esau] whom I hated before.”
This is not my writing. I just saved it. This is how I was taught growing up.
Jacob & Esau Hebrews 12
GOD'S FAR REACHING GRACE
Jacob said, “No, please, if I have found favor in your sight, then accept my present from my hand. For I have seen your countenance, which is like seeing the face of God, and you have accepted me. Genesis 33:10
Jacob reunited with his brother Esau. They hadn't seen each other for 22 years. Jacob sees that Esau is a transformed man and beholds his countenance and says it was like seeing the face of God. Now Jacob would know what it is like to see the face of God. Jacob had just had an encounter with God in human form. He wrestled with God and prevailed. He saw God's face. Jacob named the place where he saw God's face "Peniel."
Ut was right after Peniel that Jacob meets up with his brother Esau and beholds that he is a transformed man. Esau had put away all bitterness and anger for his brother deceiving him out of his birthright. He ran to Jacob and kissed him. Jacob offered Esau gifts and he refused because he was no longer the Esau of worldly pleasures. Jacob saw Esau's transformation in both his character and his countenance.
Now the Calvinist will dismiss this part of the story. He will take you straight to Hebrews 12 where it says that Esau sought repentance with tears and it wasn't granted him. But the Calvinist runs to a hasty conclusion as usual. Esau was seeking that his father Isaac reverse the decision about his birthright. His father Isaac WANTED to give Esau his birthright back but it was irreversible. So Hebrews 12 is not about God rejecting repentance from sin. God would never turn away one who repents with tears. Any Calvinist who would say that does not emanate God's face in his own countenance. He doesn't know God at all.
That day God taught Jacob how far reaching is his grace. But Calvinists cannot perceive it.
Not my summary but found it very informative
If Calvinism was a movie, people would be very confused about the plot.
Imagine defending plot holes in movies with “mystery”
@TrevorAndersen Or insulting those who point out the plot holes by telling them they don't understand the story but not telling them why.
@@lukegaier9490 There are somethings in the Bible that is a mystery for sure. I agree not good to insult, but when beginning to end of the Bible, the theme that God sets people apart is throughout, it seems weird that the idea of election and God choosing His people is deemed evil by many. To my vantagepoint, Election and Free Will is harmonized in the BIble.
If Arminianism and Provisionism were a movie, people could choose their own ending.
@@maxmustermann1206 That's a video game, and yes.
God Bless you Brother Flowers.
You hit it out of the park, brother Leighton! 🎯👍
20:40 my question regarding Rom 5, if Adam’s sin so marred us (original sin/total depravity) and was so universal, then why doesn’t Christ’s work on the cross also universally applied?
I’m not a universalist. I just object to the inherent end guilt aspect the Calvinists seem to still hold to. The thing we inherited from Adam was death. The thing is that the resurrection of Jesus is going to be universally applied in the the resurrection of the dead, which is for all men. It is just that some will be resurrected to eternal life while others not.
What we inherited from Adam and Eve is a corrupt body. Sin entered through Adam, we do not 'inherit' Adam's sin. We sin all on our own. In pure theory, if we could live a pure and sinless life, we would not be separated from God. But clearly, no one has done that besides Jesus Christ.
Jesus life, death and ressurection is certainly enough to cover ALL sin of ALL humans, but it is not inherited either. So there is. no universalism in salvation.
@@danielkim672 except for one to be universally then the other must as well. The only universal in Romans 5 is death and the resurrection.
If James White actually shows up in March, in Houston for the debate, I will be very pleasantly surprised.
He has a perfect excuse for not showing up. :😜
@@tomservo51 how could I not see it before??!?!? 😂
I thought the whole point of this debate was so that souls can be won and people convinced of the truth. Are you saying you would be happier if he wandered off into darkness still, with his soul still lost? You all have lost sight of the point of this whole thing. Follow Jesus Christ.
@@xavierthomas5835 It may be that you have misunderstood something here. Nobody is hoping that James White will ghost out.
@leinenkuge You ain't gotta explain anything to me. If it applies, I humbly ask that, for your own sakes you repent. And if it doesn't, it has no bearing on you.
I'm just wondering; if God is love, and love is not "self seeking," how does God doing something (i.e. making a world capable of evil) for His own glory make any sense whatsoever?
💯 percent agree with L. Flowers regarding Romans 5:12-21!
It’s about mortality (Death) that passed onto humanity through which Sin reigns.
Leighton - I want to go to the debate - I’m in Austin so I’ll make the trip!
I would love to show up if it was possible, i listen from South Africa,, no finances to fly so far , but brother Leighton you doing a good job.
Song details please 😊
Oh how the devil muddies the waters of the simplicity of the Love of God brought to us through the Gospel of Christ. Indeed our battle is not against flesh and blood {James White} but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Amen brother. Only man with his vain philosophy could complicate such a precious and simple truth. Glory to God who is merciful to the sinner.
James white is full of demons so in a sense he represents the things we fight against.
Thanks for sharing this.
James Prasch did an excellent job of refuting Calvinism on one of his short clips.
Dr Whites objections: “well they’re not reformed”
Yep, and the same spirit that controls White is seen by many from the reformed camp. Not all, but many reply with basically just what you said.
They really are saying:
"Who are you O man to question John Calvin"
The promise were "you would be a new creature" not a reformed one, lol, of course I'm not reformed, I'm new
God wants everyone saved, but not really, fooled ya! Calvinist make God into a Liar!
Scripture is clear God’s decretive will and declarative will are not the same. If God ordained all men to be saved they’d be saved.
@@dfischer5878 - so what "scripture" are you referring to?? Gnostic scriptures? Show these two separate wills of God in the Bible! You are just repeating lies told you by others. God has said he wants everyone saved but he didn't decree it?? That makes God a Liar! I'm sure you don't want to be doing that.
"God wants everyone saved,"
If God wants everyone to be saved, why doesn't He save everyone? Or maybe you're a Universalist?
@@dfischer5878Have you subscribed to the philosophy of determinism? Because that is not clearly laid out in Scripture. In fact there is good reason to believe determinism is false based on counterfactual knowledge God has in Scripture. Jesus made counterfactual statements. On determinism these statements are incoherent. In a view is incoherent, it shouldn't be preached!
@@maxmustermann1206I hope you would agree there is a difference between the fact that God wants all to be saved, and people (of their own conscious decision) choose darkness rather than light. Both standard biblical concepts. God provides salvation and moves first, but people can resist God's love, and they do all the time. Paul said the Pharisees are stiff-necked and continually resist the Holy Spirit! (Acts 7:51)
Whatever…which “Act” of the “Play” is THIS??? I lost track a long time ago…
I live in Houston and will be there on March 7th for the debate with White!
My biggest objection to calvinistic readings for certain passages is the resulting superfluousness--why write exhortations if we are all predetermined to behave in a certain way? The Bible becomes superficial and forced.
First question. Did Adam decide to reject the knowledge of the truth from God, that he should not eat of the tree or die or did God predetermined Adam to do it?
Predetermine I mean create him to disobey.
God is not the author of confusion or sin. Sinning is a choice. God foreknows all things but without libertarian freedom of the will and responsibility on us there is no true accountability.
@@NikoFinn That's not a Calvanistic approach though
@@NikoFinn That's just a question I would love Whites answer on.
Of course Adam freely choose to reject God's command in order to fulfill his own desire.
God did not create an evil Adam, in fact said Adam was very good, along with all of His original creation.
We were chosen in Christ before the world began, predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.
He didn't create us to die but to live hallelujah
@@deanlangenfeld495 The devil can only deceive and it was Eve that was deceived not Adam.
1 Timothy 2:14
King James Version
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
The transgression is Adam's transgression, to willingly sin against God.
For him who knows good but don't do it, to him it is sin.
James 4:17
King James Version
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Why would the Bible be lying to us If Adam didn’t have a free will? Or about the tree in the Garden of Eden ? So from the start, God gives Commandments 613 in the old, over 1000 in the new and says “you don’t literally have to do these. I’m Just faking everybody out.!” What are we gonna be ambiguous about everything cuz God is? White lies, James white lies !
But for real, God wouldn’t We ambiguous , he’s a good god is truly love!
At about 47:00 who is James playing? It sounds like the guy is suggesting that God is metaphysically good as apposed to God acting right from right intentions because He is wise, intelligent, and is not self- centered.
4:53 Here's an at least once a month message. The James White Debate posted on UA-cam is where I first found out about your ministry. The Church that I go to is more moderately in the "Reformed" camp but recently some more extreme Calvinist types started stirring things up so the senior pastor published a study guide for the small groups to explain his more moderate "Reformed" position ("Reformed" in quotes because Lutherans and Anabaptists are also Reformed). I'm not trying to be a rabble rouser but I have brought some of what I'm learning of Provisionalism into discussions, trying to be very diplomatic. My love of the writings of C S Lewis has always kept me from fully embracing the Calvinist perspective and has me even wanting to take a more persuasive rather than combative attitude towards Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
I'd like to be wrong, but my observation about the ministry that is moderately in the Reformed camp is that it tends to discard the moderation over time and go all in.
@@williammarinelli2363well he mentioned Lutherans and they have never done that. Calvinists like to pick and choose from Lutheranism and claim some.stuff for themselves while denouncing the rest. If you compare a confessional Lutheran service and a Reformed Church its like night and day. I took people to a confessional Lutheean church andnthry though it was Catholic. I said, well it was never supposed to be a new Church, we kept everything we could. The reformed ditched even the crosses. Changed the Baptism and Communion and removed the crosses like the m0hammedans do
@@Dilley_G45 When I first became a Christian I went to the church that I remembered as a child that was more traditional. realized that it had gone liberal so I moved over to the "Born-again" Evangelical side but I think this side needs a bit more of a historic grounding. The old traditional one also had a pretty bad reason to get started. The King of England wanted a divorce and the Pope wouldn't let him so he just took over the Church.
Hey I need help finding the AGE OF ACCOUNTABILITY verse or verses
Thank you
That's easy: There are none.
If you believe such a thing then promote abortion
I have ONE question to Calvinists...If God had pre-selected the saved, why did he have to send Jesus?
To die on the cross. "He shall save his people from their sins," and that is exactly what he does for every one of them without failure.
I agree with you 100%...I can reference numerous New Testament verses that refute Calvinism...I am not a Calvinist.
@@stephenarrigo5679 But I am a Calvinist answering your question! 🙂So maybe we don't disagree on as many things as you were told.
We proceed in recognizing God’s sovereignty without putting God to the test by realizing our choice is God’s sovereign design to separate wheat and tares. God is pleading through us to implore everyone on Christ’s behalf (not on behalf of our own works) to be reconciled to God.
Will the debate be recorded? Or is there a way to watch it live?
Roman's 9 apparently trumps the rest of the bible
Romans nine involves nations , no individuals are ever predestined, that’s the context! Jacob I loved Esau I hated is genesis 25:23 there are two nations in your womb.
An easy thing to overlook in Romans 9 is the trigger language of "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" The idea that a Gentile, only on the condition of faith, could become one of God's people upset Israelites in those days. As Acts 13:45 relates, "But when the Jews (who listened to Paul's message from Acts 13: 16-41 without objection, some believing) saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul." Also consider how the Jerusalem church of Acts 15 tried to placate this mindset.
@@williammarinelli2363 that’s why Jesus gave the Jews 40 years to get their minds wrapped around that the messiah had come before the temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. Haggai 2:7-9 Daniel 9:24-27 Say The Messiah would come before the destruction of the second temple!
Acts 15 is the first church council where they accepted Salvation to the Gentiles!
Same with the 70th week of Daniel, The last seven years; the church will NOT be raptured right away because 2 Thessalonians 2:3, they have to recognize the antichrist & somewhere at the beginning of the 2nd half of the seven years- The Great tribulation, the times of the gentiles will end and God will deal directly with Jews to save the 1/3 remnant! Zachariah 14
@@jjphankthere are two babies in the womb .. yes they are to represent two nations but they are to also represent whoGod chose to make a covenant promise to and whom He did not
@@dfischer5878 Esau, despises His birthright in the story of Jacob and Esau, read it in genesis! Gods fore knowledge is exercised, but there’s no predestination with individuals ever, even in Ephesians 1!
Later on Esau married an Ishmaelite, & The Arab nation was born so God foreknew that ! See genesis 36 about the lineage of the Arabs and God has a blessing for them because he said he’ll bless Ishmael to a degree, because they’re from Abrahams lineage, And fulfilling God’s promise that he will bless all nations from his loins!
Keep Romans nine And Ephesians 1 in context , don’t get out of bounds with God’s word, you’ll be in trouble!
Can you give more details regarding the debate in Houston with White?
19:00 I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with Augustine. Interestingly he is not a Saint in the Orthodox Church
If you Google “mindless gibberish” the Internet’s AI algorithm whirls in confusion briefly, much like Hal 9000's final moments, then redirects you to either “the Westminster Confession of Faith” or “Alpha and Omega Ministries”!
😂😂
Proves nothing - except maybe the AI was programmed by Arminians and Provisionists.
What song is this?!?
Yes! Leighton talking about Romans 5! This is the Anthropology101 I’ve been wanting haha
At least White is critiquing someone of his own weight class for once, instead of punching down at little startup UA-camrs just because the left Calvinism.
He is nobody. He gives authority to himself. A joke
It's interesting when you mentioned about the view from Calvinists that something is good because God declares it to be good, because that reminds of Euthyphro's dilemma, where the Greeks asked, "Do the gods love good action because it is good, or is good action good because it is loved by the gods?" The answer to this dilemma is that something is good because God Himself is good, so any action or statement that He makes will necessarily be good and will never be evil in nature.
Why would we think that God wants everyone to be saved? How about John 3:16?
Those who believe in Him will have everlasting life. Unbelievers will not. John 3:16 is not hard to understand at all.
Therefore God is just if he allows all to be condemned. But instead because of his grace, he loves and graciously chose this song for his own glory and purposes
Please post the song on Spotify 😂
As someone not committed to either side, it's frustrating that the free will side always starts with, "If there is no free will God is evil." This really discredits the speaker to me as I dont trust mankind to judge God. Give me scriptures and let them speak, not your human judgement on what God ought to be.
If they challenged me with Rom 9 I’d say, do you follow man, or Christ? Jesus Christ said He didn’t make man for Hell. So who are you to challenge God’s goodness with man’s tradition?
Very good point
This is actually an interesting point. Mind sharing the verse where Jesus said this? 🙏
@@hlawulekamaswanganyi6438
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Maybe Hell was originally created for the devil and his angels, but people will definitely go there.
"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41)
@@maxmustermann1206 right but it brings into question the goodness of God.
I believe God did predetermine we have free will yet the exercise of this free will did not occur until Adam was formed and given instructions.
What we do with this free and unmerited gift is solely on the us!
Adam was the only one with that free will. His choice cause all to be born in him .. his sinful nature
@dfischer5878 Eve had free will only she was deceived into sin.
Just as our flesh is incapable of culpability!
Eve was the flesh of Adam, literally. As she was of Adam, taking from him. Adam was supposed to keep Eve, as he was to keep the Garden.
Keep: to keep, have charge of
to keep, guard, keep watch and ward, protect, save life, to keep, preserve, protect.
He did not and she fell for the subtle deception of the serpent.
What article is flowers reading?
Watching now! Missed it live…James White can have the house full, but he is still wrong. I don’t understand why people idolize him so much. Seems like a nasty man to me.
Nasty and arrogant, very arrogant
He appeals to the haughty self righteous Christians
@@krazzykracker2564 Calvinists to a T.
@@krazzykracker2564 You can't be self-righteous when salvation belongs to God. But you can be self-righteous if you can choose whether or not you want to be saved.
@@maxmustermann1206 How does recognizing you are totally lost and incapable of saving yourself mean your self righteous? Just because you accept help from the Saviour doesn't mean you saved yourself.
My favorite song!! Lol love this intro song for Mr. White.
Why is James so dishonest? Why didn’t James give the video clips of his and Frank’s response to David Silverman? He just makes these wild claims without any proof!
I prefer the shorter videos. But decided to watch this because I love Frank Turek. Btw, Leighton, I mentioned your name under one of Frank’s shorts and got all kinds of positive and negative feedback.
My respect brother LF.
James White's explanation of the gospel is nauseating to me. Before I knew what Calvinism is, I heard him speak once and thought the man is his biggest fan. There was something off about him, couldn't place it exactly till I read up on Calvinism.
Why do they always say He forgives us for past, present and future sins when it clearly says “former” sins? Please answer!!!!
Where can I download that calvinist song at the start or listen to it?
I'm not sure why anyone can take seriously the position of James White and Augustine. Can't take Jimmy seriously at all.
For reals; God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9!
God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined!
Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1!
Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright !
So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says !
Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue.
So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8!
But if you’re a Calvinist, it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“!
Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try!
Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!
You're lying to yourself.
“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,”
II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV
The more white tries to defend the ship of Calvinism, the more he sinks it. i recommend James stay quite it will survive longer.
@ 27:40, "...age of accountability... " So, junior Calvinists argued the earliest part of my testimony and said I could not have known I sinned against God at the tender age of 6, because I never heard the Gospel. But I heard the Torah read at temple, and believed something about the God of the Torah. I wasn't saved then (at 6yo), and was saved much later in life by believing The Gospel preached , but many do NOT factor-in the conscience when a sinner understands they're a sinner at whatever age...!
And I found Dr. White’s book the King James only controversy at a thrift store. From there I began watching his videos, while I enjoyed many of his videos on the Trinity Bible translations, and dealing with groups such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I was disappointed to find out he was a Calvinist. Thank goodness I found your videos through his videos.
Quite frankly, I disagree with him on the KJV as well. I highly recommend every Bible believer to read it! The KJV Bible is the most printed book in history for a reason!
elijahmorris9864: And isn't it 2 lessons for us: 1. PAY attention to where sentence of a preacher/teacher, and 2. At what point do we no longer listen to a preacher/teacher?
We do learn by being open to various points of view, thinking, analyzing and noticing inconsistencies.
Should we all ask ourselves what are the standards we uphold in those we decide to follow?
My decision of who to stop following are:
1. Behavioral conduct. I care not what "truth," a preacher/teacher asserts, IF, he does not behave as a Christian should.
2. The teaching must align with my understanding of scripture. Scripture, the inspired word of God, was written for the people, not for theologians or church leaders.
3. On all questions regarding salvation, an answer of, "it's a mystery," is unsatisfactory. God would not allow mystery on the topic of how we are saved. The entire N.T. is on salvation.
4. Clear contradictions in the teaching that the teacher ignores.
5. If I can't understand or make sense of the preachers presentation. Even though the confusion may be my fault.
These are my standards. Each Christian should establish their standards.
Funny, bc Pauls interlocator in that passage is implying determinism.
Strange, a determinist would twist it like this.
But, like the rest of scripture, it doesn't ever mean what it says
(Sigh...😮)
Romans 9:1-3 Paul wishes he could be cut off for the sake of his people Israel, so he didn’t understand Calvinism either otherwise he wouldn’t have said that!
We are at a pivotal point in church history. We no longer need exegesis works. We now know that exegesis is Dr White reading a verse, putting a few Greeks words in, and telling us what it means. 😅
Right lol
"We no longer need exegesis works."
That's the problem with "Christians" today. They'd rather eisegete Scripture instead of exegete Scripture. They'd rather put their own meaning to Scripture instead of drawing the meaning from Scripture itself.
God does NOT cast a shifting shadow of change - according to the scriptures. So who are you? oh, Calvinist, to question the unchanging nature and will of God with your unbiblical, shifting sands of "two wills of God," nonsense?
If God's nature is unchanging (and unshifting) and His will follows from His nature, then He can't have two separate and contradictory wills.
If God's will does not follow from His nature, than what God wills is not in accord with His nature and therefore, He'd be shifting and changing.
That's both illogical and unscriptural.
There is no tenable position for the Calvinist and their unbiblical view of God's supposed schizophrenia on Calvinism.
Even a child could understand it's a clear contradiction.
I always cringe then laugh when someone says, they could not answer my argument. JW's and Mormon's say this all the time but that doesn't make their arguments valid.
Exactly, I had a provisionist tell me that babies get annihilated, then said that people don't know how to answer him when he tells them that - as if not answering him makes his answers correct.
I find it really funny that debates around Calvinism consumes so much time for mostly American Evangelical churches and Pastors, either for or against. I lived for a number of years in the Indian Subcontinent and travelled the middle East and North Africa and interacted with Christians all over the world and NO ONE CARES one way or the other. I am sinner saved by grace. I am a product of God's mercy, forgiveness, made possible through the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and nothing else matters. ✝️👍♥️🙏
Amen. This is nonsensical. We ought to be fighting for the lost, teaching people to give alms, showing people the love of Christ. Yet here we are, arguing about whether we think God controls absolutely everything, or mostly everything. This isn't the calling of God to the people of God. This isn't what Jesus died for.
Some people think, and the bible speaks to it, that what we believe about God’s character and the gospel message are important. But here is an easy solution for you if it bothers you terribly; don’t participate.
What would stop us from doing both the study to understand these things, and sharing the gospel? Do you spend every waking hour talking to the lost about Jesus?
@@DMilbury you see, THIS is the problem. Instead of saying something like, "we're taught by God yo study to show ourselves approved and to teach in love and meekness. We can't ignore our calling," you decide you don't like what he's saying, and tell him if he doesn't like it, he can go somewhere where people care. Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't the same Scriptures you love so much say to wash one another's feet? In reading the Bible, have you forgotten to follow the words?
@DMilbury and is it under YOUR authority to tell one of the children of God to not participate in the things of God? His whole point isn't that we should stop discussing the word of God. It's the argument part, and the narrow-minded focus on trying to disprove this or that doctrine. We have alot of callings, and preaching the gospel and teaching doctrine are two of them, not all of them.
@jesusforever4729 If heresies condemned from the earliest church fathers pop back up in interpreting the bible, in discussion and infiltrate the church, what should the response be? What did the early church fathers do with these, if you know?
Who cares if God is ultimately ordering rapes, murders and every other evil under the sun ......by decree?
People aren't being saved .......because of decree, people are doing evil ......because of decree, or do we just say "Oh well, it doesn't matter, nobody cares, I'm being saved anyways..!"??
When atheists argue that God is not worthy of worship because he causes evil, pain and suffering by his unchangable decree and the atheist would never worship a duplicious god like that, you'll just have to sit there dumbfounded.
I find that sad, not funny.
There are plenty of REAL LIFE ramifications why we need proper biblical exegesis to inform our life choices.
I honestly don't think you've really thought through the real life issues and eventual ramifications of correctly dividing the Word to understand our most Holy God and his relationship to mankind.
Edit: Tip: God does not decree evil.
Paul’s writings seem so clear to me. If I didn’t know any better, I would think these Determinists are intentionally mis-interpreting them. I just don’t see how they can come to the conclusions they do.
Jimmy has gone so far down the rabbit hole, there is no turning back up. But this is a plus for the Calvinists who are questioning their doctrines. Jimmy's ridiculous and pompous responses will lead many of them to the truth of Scripture. Praise God.
Chiming in on the Lazarus and the tomb bit. The prodigal son was not forced to come home by the father. No, the prodigal son came to his senses, realizing the state of his situation. He repented and went to the father with no expectation with a hope he could be the least in his father's house; a servant to his father's servants. Humbly, a contrite heart.
Edit: At about 1:12 White compares Egyptian soldiers with Jews. Why does he not compare Egyptian soldiers with the Israel? Are there not twelve tribes? What am I missing?
1:53:25 Question: How can I borrow from a universalist perspective when I have never heard it, as you posit? Notwithstanding the fact that the universalist's are more inline with White's belief: God has chosen to save all without condition or chosen to save the few, the proud, the ma--calvinists... without condition. No, my friend, God has chosen to save all... through His Son; those who trust in Him; that is the condition.
2:00:00 Question: is there a Christian that thinks that there is something God does *not* know? How is that possible?
The problem with your first point is that there are a great many things that are missing or added to that parable. Because it's a PARABLE, not a one to one exact replica of the whole scenario. Because Jesus, in fact, says he has come to seek and to save the lost. The prodigal son came of his own accord, not because someone came looking for him. That's one problem. Another would be the fact that the Lord doesn't have two sons, he has one. There isn't a schism in the body of Jesus for the Jews and the Gentiles, which is the point Jesus is making with this parable. The older brother is the Jewish people, who are proud of their heritage and the law. The younger, prodigal son is the Gentiles who have strayed so far from God. For us God looks for and seeks and rejoices in, not in those who don't need his mercy, yet another point made by Jesus in parable. Parables are not one to one exact replicas of the whole gospel, just a small part of it.
did the egyptians not have the opportunity to come under the blood as to be saved, but choose not to, though some did...after this rejection of a means of salvation they are punished for rebelling and trying to destroy those who had been saved by the blood.
Why is “reformed” always seeming to pertain to Calvinism with Calvinists? I thought “reformed” refers to Protestants in general.
Good point. Luther was the first modern Reformer. Before him Hus and Wycliff were important contributors who are often overlooked. Also Peter Waldo.
1:10:45 - this is shocking to me. “Where do you get the idea that God wants every single person to be saved?” From the gospel! God’s plan of salvation to the nations! Does Mr White really not know why Jesus came to the earth? I guess he would say it was to save a handful of people who didn’t really need saving because they were predetermined to go to heaven before they were created anyway.
Calvinism is not just another view of soteriology or another (bad) hermeneutic. They worship a different God. A God with a different character and different goals.
"For God so loved every single person that He gave His only begotten Son..." - says no Bible verse.
"Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of every single person." - says no Bible verse.
Who are the "any" in 2 Peter 3:9? I think you inserted a word that wasn't there.
"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
All throughout 2 Peter, he uses the pronouns "we" and "us." Who are the "we" and the "us"? You have to go back to the beginning of 2 Peter chapter 1. The letter of 2 Peter was written to believers. The Lord is not wishing that any [of us; believer] should perish. Context is key.
When you hear the label Reformed you think from Catholicism but not the gospel!!! Just like the shock when you learn the immaculate conception is concerning Mary and not Jesus!!! Leaves us in a state of shock in both cases!!!
That's right. God's sons are not reformed from catholicism, we reject catholicism and any other false gospel.
@@JesusProtects If you are a Calvinist you are reformed from the Bible!!!
If we as Christians delve and have delved in these topics for centuries, how then do atheists always claim we are inferior mentally to them?
I wish people would stop using the archaic word "apologetics" (which today has the negative meaning of "apologizing" for something wrong or ignorant) and use "defense of the faith" instead. "Defense of the faith" is a much clearer and stronger term for today's world.
Can you give an example of somewhere that apologetics carries your negative definition? I have never run across anything close to that in decades of reading theology and philosophy.
@@randybrandt6459 What I mean is that in the minds of average people today the word "apologize" is connected with something wrong for which people are ashamed and must "apologize". True, this is not the connotation in theological circles. Because the Bible and the gospel are always under attack, it seems to me it would be more effective in reaching the "non-theological mind" to use words that are more "positive" to their understanding: We are "defending the faith" with the plentiful evidence that exists for it, not apologizing for Christianity. We are not ashamed of Christianity and the gospel. Average people do not think in the terms used by theologians. They "apologize" only for things that are wrong or deficient.
@@beaulin5628 I think it's an opportunity to explain the actual meaning to people ("a reasoned defense" originating in the ancient Greek legal system) but you should know your audience, so whatever works for them is best. Either way, making the defense is paramount!
@@randybrandt6459 What you say is true. But my concern in reaching unbelievers of today is to separate the negative connotation of this word (as it is understood in average minds) from Christianity. Having to explain this theological word just gets in the way. I think it is a better "defense "to directly say what the word means: "Defense of the faith". We are not ashamed of Christianity and the gospel, we are delighted with it ! We are thrilled that Jesus has provided the whole human race with victory over death (if they are interested). We have the true "Fountain of Youth" and the only "Elixer" that can give life from the dead! This theological word does not reflect our certainty, joy, and optimism in my opinion. ( Blessings to you.)
@@beaulin5628 Have a blessed Lord's Day!
How do Calvinists skip past the first to verses of Romans 5 and not realize Paul just said the exact opposite of Calvinism? It even specifies that the grace being referred to is THAT IN WHICH WE NOW STAND, which is the grace of salvation.
No where in those verses does it say anything about man's free will choice.
@@maxmustermann1206 Where does it say the God created some for hell and others for damnation? Is applied PREDESTINATION for SANCTIFICATION. for these WHO LOVE HIM.
@@jeffreybomba You're making assumptions about what I believe.
@@maxmustermann1206 Dear Max, Jeffreybomba was only presenting an example of an eisegesis derived statement, not assuming what you believe, nor about me, or about anything other than what he was saying the passage doesn't mean and then following that up with what it DOES mean.
You don't need statements in the Bible to say "Man is relatively free to make choices", because not only real life, but scriptures are full of examples of man's free choices, good and bad, that God is not responsible for, but which the man will be judged for.
The salvation that God offers only works if man is in the image of God, a free will free action conscious entity.
Why does Leighton use the term "total inability" when total depravity is the doctrine that calvinist teach? Also, no one is believing the gospel without the Holy Spirit convicting the world if sin, righteousness and judgement. The difference it seems to be between Leighton and calvinists, is that Leighton believes it can be resisted and calvinists think it can't. It seems that belief and regeneration happen at the same time?
Calvinists believe regeneration preceeds faith.
No, I've never heard a calvinist say they were convicted of sin.
@@shredhed572 I understand. And non-calvinists would say belief precedes regeneration. Scripture says the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. It seems that regeneration and belief happen at the same time. Both sides could easily be arguing and both be wrong.
Even leading Calvinists such as Sproul and MacArthur refer to a “radical inability” so as to distinguish what the Calvinist is teaching versus simply saying that men are sinfully depraved.
@@shredhed572 "No, I've never heard a calvinist say they were convicted of sin."
I hear it all the time during baptisms at Grace Community Church during their live-streams.
I never hear conviction of sin during baptisms at Bethel (Bill Johnson's Church)
Can the Bible support such a thing as "effectual determinism" outside of God's will? Would God Himself?
I love how Dr. White goes on about challenging Turek to a debate and Turek not acknowledging Dr. White's existence. It doesn't take rocket science to recognize that Dr. White is not an honest debater looking to bring understanding of God's Will and Word. Dr. White is looking to feed his ego and score a "win." Any person with an ounce of wisdom would avoid engaging Dr. White.
The entire Bible collapses if strict Calvinism is true. Why would Christ need to go to the cross and be resurrected under calvinism ?
To pay for sins and ACTUALLY save people. In Arminianism and Provisionism, Jesus paid for sins on the cross with only the hope of saving people; there's no guarantee that He will actually save anyone.
@@maxmustermann1206 So those who were chosen by God to be saved could only be saved if Jesus paid for their sins on the cross?
"Go ye into the world and tell them.....you might be one of the elect or not."
@@thisslightlysweetlife3402 Believers are the elect. Calvinism is not hard to understand. Read John 3:36
@@maxmustermann1206 Did you even watch the video you're commenting on? He explains your misunderstanding well.
"Go ye into the world and tell them.....you might be one of the elect or not."
@@thisslightlysweetlife3402 I've never heard a Calvinist share the gospel that way.
The outcome from Christian determinism could be very tiresome, because it's very similar to kicking rocks.
Do a debate in Alaska and I would eagerly show up.
Incidentally, not many events get hosted in Alaska.
No one speaks Russian.😢
Bottom line is, if God has predestined them from the beginning, then there is no point preaching the gospel, because God is going to save them anyway. Why do apologetics? if the only ones coming to God are those that He chose. It makes no sense.
It makes no sense for Arminians and Provisionists to share the gospel. If God wants to save people, tries to save them, He sent Jesus to pay for theirs sins...So he's done all that He can and can't actually save anyone on His own (which Scripture doesn't teach, but proponents of free-will preach), then why are YOU sharing the gospel?
@@maxmustermann1206 For the obvious reason that not everyone in the world has heard it. Millions never heard of Jesus and millions of atheists might of heard of Jesus but have never looked into it. So they won't know the evidence to show facts. That question does not work the same way as it does for you that believe predestination.
@@servant2Christ You completely missed the point. Is the gospel the power of God unto salvation (as the Bible teaches and Calvinists believe) or is man's free will the power unto salvation (as a lot of Provisionists on the site are saying)? If salvation is in the power of man's free will and not God, why do you share the gospel?
@@maxmustermann1206 We are saved by grace, It's the free gift from God. The gospel is the good news on how to get this free gift, that's what gospel means. But man has the free will to accept or reject. The Bible teaches that clearly. God is not going to force anyone to love him, therefore predestination goes against free will. But true salvation is receiving God's grace which is having a regenerated heart, a desire to his will. We are not saved by works but true salvation produces works. Faith without works is dead faith, and works without faith are not true works. We are rewarded for work. 1 Corinthians 3. We cannot lose salvation if it's a true salvation as described but we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are saved.
John 5:28-29 says that both the good (saved) and the evil (unsaved) will be resurrected when they hear the voice of the Son of man! James pretends that only the regenerate would be called out of death. That is not true, both the evil and the good will be called!!
Is Dr. White teaching a "different Gospel"?
Yes. For Calvinists, The good news is not John 3.16. It’s “I am one of the chosen!””
@@jass0033 Believers are the elect. Calvinism is not that hard to understand.
No, Calvinists believe that we are saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone, according to Scriptures alone, for the Glory of God alone.
Contrast that with what @gk.4102 said above: "Jesus has done His part, now the sinner needs to do his."
@gk.4102 doesn't believe that we're saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone. His also putting trust in something he does.
@@maxmustermann1206 Calvinists believe God is evil for he arbitrarily sends most to hell and saves a few for heaven. An infinitely powerful God could have stopped Adam but instead chose not too, thus dooming all. And now chooses to pluck a few out. This is a wicked God, an unbiblical God and therefore a false idol. Calvinists flirt with idolatry. The biblical true God is love, and is not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. He wants all to be saved. But man must choose to believe in the good news of Jesus Christ.
@@jass0033
"Calvinists believe God is evil..." False. God created a perfect world. Adam and Eve disobeyed God, thus bring sin and death into the world (Romans 5:12)
"for he arbitrarily sends most to hell..." False, He sends them to Hell for not repenting and not believing in Him.
"and saves a few for heaven." True. (Matthew 7:13-14) Only believers will go to heaven. Unbelievers will not.
"An infinitely powerful God could have stopped Adam but instead chose not too, thus dooming all." So you're saying the God of the Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)? It is certainly true that He allowed Adam to sin, but that doesn't mean that He is not all-powerful.
"The biblical true God is love" Yes, and He is also just, which is why He must also punish sin. Jesus will pay for the sins of the believers, unbelievers will pay for their own sins in Hell.
Let’s all pray for Dr. White, that God would remove the scales from his eyes and that he would look at Scripture afresh and let Scripture define its own terms. May he turn from being a defender of Calvinism to bering one who exposes its errors.
I pray our brothers in Christ reject qualifying labels like reformed or Calvinism. We’re Christ’s and Christ is God’s. The Bible is enough, adding other documentation to it is idolatry. Beloved test the spirits to see if they are from God. Christ came in simple flesh, simple faith is the honest response.
Do you reject the labels "Arminian" and "Provisionist"?
@@maxmustermann1206 I am determined not to know anything except Jesus Christ and Him crucified, so I may be useful to God and men. Please consider 2 Timothy 2:14, and Titus 3:9. Please join me in praying for unity for the Church! Meditation on 1 John and John 17 and 1 Corinthians 13 will help. I’m saying this from a deep love for my brothers in Christ, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
@ 1:11:30 White uses 2 pathetic examples to claim that God hated people unconditionally and did no desire their salvation.
1) White says that God didn’t love or desire the repentance of neighboring nations is proven by God not sending His prophets to those nations. But White is simply wrong as a careful study of the OT shows that God’s revelation of His righteousness in the law was evidence to all of the surrounding nations AND God DID SEND His prophets to neighboring nations and their Kings. Did White forget all of this?
2) God destroying Pharaoh’s army was part of Israel’s deliverance and SURVIVAL of His earthly representative as descendants of Abraham, through whom God would bring His light and salvation into the world. God destroying Pharaoh’s army has nothing to do with God hating them all and not desiring their repentance, White KNOWS that. Their destruction that day was in judgment and to deliver Israel as the nation would eventually be used to write God’s word and bring forth the Savior of the world. White is making a catagory error. And White even acknowldged that many of the Israelites that God delivered from Pharaoh soon after died because of their evil unbelief!
Im a recovered alcoholic and drug addict
Jesus saved me 30 years ago
If i had been approached by a calvinist i would have continued as a crackhead alcoholic because i would have been sure i wasnt elected/selected
Ive read thr Bible 100 times in the last 30 years and i believe calvinism is an evil thread running through Christianity
Thank you Jesus for giving us all a chance at salvation.
I wouldn't be able to honestly help other addicts get to Jesus if calvinism was true!!Id be lying to them if i said Jesus guarantees forgiveness and eternal life to all who repent and Accept The Crucified and Resurrected Christ!Calvinism is a cancer in Christianity!!
I'm sorry to hear that Arminians and Provisionist lied to you about Calvinism. Believers are the elect.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
How amazing would it be if God, like He did with Paul, removed the scales from James Whites eyes and James White renounced his Calvinism and started teaching Provisionism. I pray.
James White is the fulfillment of God's word about a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm sorry, I'm not recognizing this guy a brother in Christ. Calvinism is cultic and demonic doctrine yet this guy defended it and would die for it. We have a different Spirit in us.
He's telling the truth and being honest about the God of the bible.
“Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,”
II Timothy 1:8-9 NKJV