The brass ammo industry manufactures a wide variance in the ammo it offers in each caliber, and the shooter goes through the ammo and determines what is best for him and his gun. The BP shooter doesn't get to do that so appreciates this kind of information to encourage him to find his own gun's sweet spot. Thanks.
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you brother for all that you do and have become a fan of your channel as I'm just getting started on BP pistols and showing sharing the knowledge to my two boys (7,8 and my daughter 14yr olds) as if I don't show'em what we learned, they'll pick it up elsewhere, and that ain't a good idea... Keep up the good work brother, best wishes from Los Angeles CA via South Central LA! 💥🇺🇲🤠
It’s amazing how fudd in internet gun culture is so pervasive. For 20+ years I thought it was impossible to get more than 35gr of black powder in a modern 45 Colt case because some guy on an Internet forum said so. Your video just tears that whole misconception down in 11 minutes. THANK you for putting this out there 🙏
Part of the problem is that folks like this feller, and old geezers who have been there like me, get shouted down on the internet every time we try to dispel myths and pass on our knowledge. So many, if not most, of us old geezers have given up, and let them carry on with their foolishness. Most of these youngins don't even know that a lot of the claims they make were dispelled by the old loading manuals alone back in the day. We had good BP manuals back then, before they got lawyered up and watered down. I suggest that anyone with a real interest in BP shooting seek out the BP handbooks and manuals from the 70's, you'll be surprised here and there!
People forget that “ in the day “ there were no chronographs or high speed cameras. They did things based off the fact of it would work or not. Good to see the traditions alive. You just used the chronograph to prove it. Awesome.
They used physics, a log on a rope of a certain weight, known length of rope, and someone standing to the side to record how high the log swunf could calculate out the energy absorbed by the target, calculate out the weight of the projectile and get the velocity at impact that way.
I've read they actually could calculate speed. They would tie a weighed log to a rope, shoot the log, and use calculations and how much the log moved to get speed.
Wow! Thanks Jake. I don’t care if you didn’t use a Ransom Rest ,or digital satellite imagery , or a team of physicists and mathematicians. Forty grains of fff and a 250 grain lead flat point works for me.👍 Real world results are what matters in the real world.
This was super interesting. I’d always read that accuracy back in the late 1800s was poor among many soldiers with the 40gr load because the recoil was so stout. The first time I loaded mine up with 40gr I thought that I read the published load data wrong because the recoil was more stout than I anticipated and I shoot a decent amount of larger bore guns. But I didn’t want to leave an air gap either so I settled at 35gr as a happy medium with my Uberti Cattleman II with the 250gr Big Lube bullets. It’s nice to know that 40gr is perfectly fine though.
I had a zip tie on my walker too. It was very good at keeping the lever up, and also great at removing the bluing. I switched to a leather thong, it was more gentle on the lever. I also tried removing the loading lever for shooting, but thats time consuming. Eventually i took the walker in and had some work done on the lever, and having a latch put in and using the lever on a dragoon worked well. A buddy of mine just changed the barrel, and a dragoon barrel fit just fine on his walker. In a world full of political crap on youtube, you do well bringing us videos that are straight forward. Thanks.
I use flat silk ribbons in black on my 2 Walkers. They work beautifully. I also used a triangular jeweler's file to widen the v-notch on the hammer. It gives a much better sight picture, and alignment is soo much easier under just about all lighting conditions.
What an absolute beauty that revolver is i might not really be able to get one myself over here in the land of tea and biscuits but I can appreciate a nice looking revolver simple yet elegant very nice indeed
@@NORTH_CAROLINA_REAPERmaybe but it's pretty much impossible for your average Joe to get the required licences to even own a firearm in the first place over here and even then the only ones that are really available would be shotguns for sport and hunting purposes but the licensing pretty much requires you to have a reason for wanting one and it's usually reserved for farmers and the likes so yeah just about everything else is illegal like pistols in general are pretty much a no go and I'm pretty sure it's just more hassle than it's worth for your average Joe
@@markopolo1271 that's really unfortunate. You however COULD try airguns. I'd they're under 12 ft pounds they're legal. Definitely not the same but they're very good for anything between rats and rabbits.
@@NORTH_CAROLINA_REAPER I used some fairly high powered air rifles back in my high-school days quite a fair few years back now at some sort of outdoorsy event place that did like wigwam building, axe throwing and archery type activities and gotta admit those things are deceptively powerful I remember we were shooting some paper targets at the end of the range and they were stuck on steel plates and after I took my shots I went to collect the target paper only to feel the dents the lead pellets made in the steel sh*t was wild I vividly remember and still maintain the same sheer amazement at the power those things have but I'm fairly certain those were regulated airguns that require some sort of licensing to actually buy and own
That’s what load development is, finding what works in your particular barrel best. Not rocket science but it needs to be said for some who don’t get it, what works in one person’s gun isn’t necessarily the best for everyone else with that model and production run. Each barrel has its own harmonics and needs to be loaded for individually.
Hi there Jake, asked you about compression loads for this cartridge, & BAM, a video... Got a Ruger old army which got me addicted to black powder, never experimented with different loads, just what uncle told me to use[ back when he was alive]. Watching this has got me itching to drag the ol' girl out again & start playing again... thanks heaps....
It's amazing how you can weigh powder on a scale to the exact weight and load your pistol cylinder and the velocity when fired is high and low and the caps are hotter or cooler than each other and never get a level velocity that is the same! I've tried for 30 years and it's the same old up and down velocities !
Funny thing , i did try 45gr / 255gr on my Uberti Walker and 30gr / 255gr on my Pietta 1858 Both one handed, and the Walker felt like pellet gun, while the Remington twist my wrist 😅 At almost 2time the weight, that behemot wont make you feel how hard he can really hit. But it surely do ! Because my chronograph di read ~1050fps with that 255 chunk of lead. That's 625 ft.lb 💪 ( Regular French PNF2 " Sport oriented " black powder is weaker than Goex, let alone Swiss powder. But still impressive from a 1847 Colt design imo )
Very interesting. Thank you very much for going through this work. My Uberti 1860 Henry rifle loves a 255 gr FN with 38 gr 3F. You are correct. These loads are powerful
Main thing is what size of bullet goes from cylinder chamber and then enters cone. If too small then jumps in pipe. I used reamer, did job on cylinder. 457 bullets are nice tight fit. Better accuracy gained.
Is good to see you learned the Walker way of shooting, that old Colt Walker. Found early on, that string was important and considered a must have for shooting any Colt Walker or black powder revolver that did not have a keep on the loading lever.
Fast lead bullets in a 24" rifle lead even worse. PRS bullets (Big Lube) help, but powder coating totally cured it for me. I appreciate your efforts in making various BP recipies. Thanks!
Excellent test and...EXCELLENT RESULTS! That 40 grain load with a 250 gr. Flat point has got to produce kinetic energy VERY CLOSE to that of a .357 mag. Suffice it to say, that's damned impressive for a design that started in 1847 and upgraded with period-like upgrades to say, 1868 to 1870 standards. Those are incredible ballistic results, absolutely incredible! I once had to tell a couple of "black powder naysayers:" 'YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NEVER VISITED SOME CIVIL WAR GRAVEYARDS!" Suffice it to say, that shut them up very quickly!
I've long argued that the .357 Mag did not surpass the actual striking power of the .45 Colt 40 grain black powder load in 1935, and that it took the 44 Magnum in 1955 to finally surpass the striking power of the .45 Colt 40 gr BP loading. The .357 Mag in 1935, from a 8 3/8" barrel revolver, moved a 158 gr bullet at 1450 fps, for 738 ft/lbs of KE(Kinetic Energy), and a striking force that moved a 100 pound Ballistic Pendulum at 3.93 inches per second. In this video, from a 9" revolver barrel, EBP shows the .45 Colt 40 gr 3Fg loading moving the 250 gr bullet at 1068 fps, for 633 ft/lbs of KE but an actual striking force moving the 100 pound Balliistic Pendulum at 4.58 inches per second, a 16.5% greater striking force than the original .357 Magnum in 1935. KE does not measure bullet striking force. KE is the calculated theoretical pressure required to accelerate the given bullet weight to stated velocity against gravitational and aerodynamic resistance. The .357 requires 738 ft / lbs of KE [ 1.34 HP!] to accelerate the 158 gr bullet to 1450 fps, while the .45 Colt requires 633 ft/lbs [1.15 HP] to accelerate the 250 gr bullet to 1068 ft/sec. The .357 requires so much more KE because the bullet has to be acclerated to 1450fps. Accelerating a 158 gr bullet past 1068 fps to 1450 fps would require 84% more KE! Doubling the velocity of a given bullet weight would require 4 times more KE. Even with the greater KE, the .357 Mag gives less striking force than the 45 Colt 40 gr BP load, as demonstrated by EBP! [NOTE: The Colt Dragoon revolvers were actually more powerful than the .45 Colt 40 grain BP loading, because where cartridge manufacturers loaded the .45 Colt with either 2Fg ( about 950 fps) or 3Fg ( 1068 fps as shown in this video), the Dragoons were often loaded with very fine grained Hazard Number One Pistol Powder (4Fg), either a load of 40 grains under a 220 gr conical or 36 grains under a 260 grain conical, which could get the 260 grain conical to 1100+ fps]
Thought it was very eye opening given the round balls are about 145 grains out the walkers. So yea I can see why the powder would be a lot less as well. Very informative. Keep your powder dry
Nice vid, and I am 100% in agreement about the full charges. I won BP category at a state Cowboy Action Match using 40 grains of Goex Cowboy (now discontinued, but basically a fine 2F with velocities between 2 & 3F) under my hand-cast 255 grain "big lube" bullets. I have personally found that going below 35 grains in the big Colt case leaves more fouling unless a filler is used. Mostest compressedest is the bestest...or something like that.
It would be extremely interesting to see what happens if you put the same 40gr of 3F in the percussion cylinder under a 250gr conical type bullet and see if your velocities are similar to the same self contained cartridge load. I'm guessing it would be a good bit slower from the percussion cylinder because of gas leakage through the nipple.
Jake the other day i made my first BP, i used cedar and the powder was not as good as goex, 50gr. in my 40 flintlock was like shooting 40gr. of goex. and it was nasty! i live on the Edisto River in SC, it is full of river willows, millions of them on the banks. tomorrow me and a friend are going to commandeer some! i will see how they work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I agree with you. For me I use a 38-grain charge of BP with Lyman's 454190 for Cowboy shooting. It works well in my Colt SAAs and my Ruger old armies with a Krist cylinder, not a SASS legal velocity but at the club no one cares because they love the show and that cannon blast.
This is a fantastic video--I'm so tired of guesses and unsupported opinions. I want hard numbers with repeatable results. The most interesting part of this for me was that I have always heard that Swiss doesn't like compression, but your results clearly showed that to be wrong. I haven't tried 40 grains (I use 35 grains of Schuetzen 3F with a 250-grain RNFP bullet) because I was warned that some of the better powders didn't like compression, but I am really curious to do so now.
you know there really are some idiots out there that just know everything and they tell on their self after you start showing them wrong. you keep up the good work because you sure showed them up. keep ye powder dry
I know this video's 2 years old, but here goes anyway. The 200gr bullet is still consistent with the max spread. On average across all four loadings you're gaining 1fps of spread per 25fps velocity. If anything, it's a testament to how consistent swiss powder is. The 200gr being all over the place makes sense because the slow rifling in the repros was never meant to see let alone stabilize supersonic projectiles. Every shot of the 200/40 loads was supersonic. They grouped pretty well, considering.
I’m sure the velocity is the culprit. A wad might help but the bullets are hard cast so if you wanted a harder bullet you would need a jacketed bullet. I was going to try it with some powder coated lead bullets
@@Everythingblackpowder curious how that will work. Maybe even a gas checked bullet. I commented that late last night when tired. I guess a thin wad would fit that isn’t thicker than the 50gr missing from the bottom of the bullet. I learned my lesson trying to get a full bp powder charge in a .44 russian case with a wad and 240gr bullet. Had to subtract the wad or some powder. It made the powder like a solid chunk from all the compression lol. I was new. Now I just use the wad and less powder.
600 ft/lb 😮 Billy the Kid was laying down some heavy lead back in the day. I edc a .32acp mouse gun that is at 120ft/lb LOL. My accuracy is dead nut on target, single hole at that 5 yard distances. I doubt I'll even need more distances than 5 yards, I'm fast a hell too. I've tried 380, 9mm, 45 acp and unfortunately I'm not fast , the weight of the gun, bigger barrel, and recoil all add up to slow me. Also too annoying to carry, go running, hiking, church, or conceal carry with out it digging into my comfort areas. To think they would quick draw with a heavy revolver is nuts. Very cool to see , I appreciate you doing a chronograph, and freehand to give a realistic shot group.😊
Great video! (I say that partly because I don't want to have to make my own... besides, my results wouldn't be any different than yours.) Nice, knowledgeable, level headed analysis of black powder .45 Colt loads. And, like I said, your results pretty much duplicate my own. I've told people for years that I simply load 40 grains of FFFg, and the first thing some of them ask is "where do you get balloon head cases these days?" When I tell them that I use modern solid head cases, they tell me "that's impossible. They won't hold that much. Everyone knows that." Uh huh... I have made one "modern" concession, I will admit - I use a bullet with a crimping groove rather than crimping over the ogive. I like the Lyman #452664. Its flatter than original flat point makes it a wonderful hunting bullet, at least in my experience.
Have not finished watching yet so don't know the conclusions, I just thought I would add that loading instructions for the Whitworth hexagonal rifle was to gently seat the bullet ....zero compression ....always thought that was odd
Have you ever used the Lee 300 gr flat nose bullet? That one may give a higher ftlb at a given powder charge, and is about perfect for hunting deer with a pistol. It is basically a Keith bullet and can be used with a copper base to reduce leading.
great vid. for me a walker is for hunting. i would use your heavy load. for plinking 36 cal rem. 18 gr. 3f and round ball. 36 is a great walk around revolver for rabbits' and tin cans. walker and ruger oa deer hunting.👍👍👍👍👍
Stumbled across your channel by accident and subscribed after watching two videos. I ran a lot of black powder back in the eighties, mostly in .36 and .44, 1851 Navy and 1860 Army. They were always compressed loads. Has been interesting to watch you experiment with fillers and wads and different charges, very informative. I am now getting the urge to start running black powder again, thanks to your channel 😂. No longer have the 1861, but do have the 1851, along with two .45 Colts, one being a Blackhawk Bisley, the other is a SAA clone. I have GOT to now try some BP loads in .45. Have you tried any in .45 ACP? I know that would be unusual, but it would be interesting. Anyway, thanks for your work in producing the videos.
I am commenting on this vid because I cant remember where that vid is. You compress you milled BP once and relieve pressure. You must grind it again and do it as many times as you have time for. In a facrory of old think when they wet stone milled with a 50 to 100ton stone. The same process happend once every min for days on end. At the higher pressure the temp increase and higer temp and pressure Potassiun Nitrate dissolve much much better, then relivieve the pressure quickly and the temp will fall and the PN will form small crystals in the Charcoal. That was the full idea behind it, a better mix/intamacy between C/S/KNO3. The Puck as you call it is not to make F/FF/FFF but to better mix. Stop your day long ball mill in the middle and make puck's then mill the made pucks again and do you normal process as you do, 100% sure you will have cleaner burn and more bang for your buck
Very interesting video, I do not think it sucks but I will try to make my own videos cause where I live, in Poland, black powder shooting knowledge is desired but not easy availible in Polish language. But I admire Your editing, need some time to make Your recordings as informative and accesible as possible. Cheers man !
I thought you weren't supposed to go over 850fps with the cartridge conversion cylinder, is that just smokeless powder or because I have the new army 1858... Or both/ neither?
Personally I don’t go over 800fps with Smokeless ammo In a conversion and I I only use lead bullets, No jacketed rounds. I don’t worry about fps with black powder ammo the pressure curve is too low to cause any damage
Awesome, I have some cowboy loads was going to reload them with black powder after firing them, going to try out some different loads and see what kind of results I get!
Everyone on "the tube" keeps making me sure of my thoughts and firearms HISTORY? lead projectiles should not go supersonic but stay around 1050 max. BUT YOU HAD SOME RAGGED Holes for a few groups! Ahw man use your powder? PLEASE? Keep those Smoke Poles SMOKING! and you are Well Heeled. i can't wait to test all mine in the Test Me Box!
Relatively new to casting. Your last load you said leaded the barrel a lot. Is that from high velocity and soft lead? Are adding things like gas checks or antimony of value in your opinion? I am wanting to try c & r rifles with cast bullets and light black powder loads. Love all of the tinkering and testing on your channel.
Very good numbers. What can you get with 60gr of BP under a 454 round ball with the original cylinder? Your leading might be because you were using 452 boolits.
New sub here. I’ve been reloading for several years and was asked to load some black powder 45 Colt loads for a family member. Having zero experience with BP I started researching because none of my manuals mention it. This is how I came across your channel, as well as Mike Beliveau’s, and I noticed he’s using big lube bullets while it appears you’re using more conventional lead bullets with smaller grooves. Mike seems adamant about a liberal amount of lube. Are the smaller grooves sufficient because you’re using better lube or is there another step I’m unaware of? Keep up the entertaining videos! Thanks.
That was the kind of video where I learn something. I always loaded Unique Smokeless powder and never looked at Black Powder for .45 Colt. I may have to take another look what kind of lube did you use on the bullets also did you cast your own? Oh the video didn't suck!
these are rim rock bullets that I melt the lube off and re lube them with my homemade BP lube made from lambs tallow and beeswax. I really like unique powder for its versatility but I would have to load 45 Colt with 10gr or more to get velocities like these BP loads, and it would definitely have higher pressures that would be safe for an open top gun like the Walker.
I just ran across your channel yesterday and I am interested in basically all guns I've been shooting the 45 Colt since the fifties and I've always been just a little bit curious about BP firearms never owned one only have modern cartridge firearms and of course I don't intend to load BP cartridges but I find it interesting to see I just might have to fool around with it a bit are the Colt clones okay for BP like a uberti SAA
Those velocities are impressive, definitely more than recommended for my conversion cylinders. Would love to reload my own loads, just don’t want to get in over my head and grenade my cylinder and lose a limb(s) only to end up on an episode of Darwin Awards as I’m just getting into black powder shooting and reloading.
Thanks I also shoot 40 grains but I use 777 powder and a 255 grain hard cast. I always wondered what the fps was. This is a stout load and I believe would be good even against bear. Again thanks again buddy.
I assume your powder charges are by VOLUME and not weight. Right? When I developed a 40-82 load in an early 1895 marlin, I used pyrodex (couldn't get black powder in Alaska). I determined what 82 grains-volume actually weighed with pyrodex, then thereafter weighed each charge. I know it is probably silly to put that much precision in a black powder rifle, but for what I shoot, I didn't mind the extra work.
I know a bunch of C$B target shooters in the N-SSA shooting @ 25 & 50 yd. They get the best accuracy with 18-20 gn 3f using a filler to top off chamber. I have tried the same load with a round ball just lightly crimped in the 45 LC for nice light accurate loads colt clone
The lead in the barrel might be because the lead is too soft are the bullets may need gas checks problems happen with lead bullets at high velocities the hardness of the lead really matters
What's with you smart-ass kids showing off with your fancy metal cartridges? You're clearly doing well with yours though, so I can't knock them. Nice work! I'm curious how you got your Walker to shoot somewhere near POA (as presumably it does?). I had to replace my factory front sight with a much taller one. In my Walker I use a paper cartridge with 45 grains Swiss or O.E., and either a 200 grn flat point, a 225 gr FP, or a 217 gr flat hollowpoint. Each with a lube cookie (card, lube, card) behind the bullet. Pure lead cast bullets, and no discernible barrel leading.
Sir I was just sitting here and thinking about the 200 grain load and how much leading you got in the bore. Eduard Rubin did almost all of his development of jacketed bullets with compressed and uncompressed black powder. Could you (if it’s possible) do a test of black powder bullets with a normal lead, poly coated lead, and copper jacketed bullet, with black powder?
I have played around with some compress loads in 45 colt also which is why I was glad to see this video. The only negative is that in a lighter revolver such as the Uberti Cattleman, the recoil is quite stout and it really bangs my fingers, LOL. I think in the Walker, with its' weight, that would tame the recoil substantially. BTW, did you install the krist converter yourself, or did you have them do it?
Jake, I am becoming quite interested in a cap and ball revolver. but before i lay down hundreds of dollars on one, I am wondering if I can safely shoot black powder in my S&W 629 44 Magnum revolver. It would seem like I could, but I don't know how much pressure will be in a case nearly full of black powder. I know they burn differently. but I would rather ask and be safe than ruin a good gun.
Interesting that your 30 grain load has the current "standard" smokeless load ballistics at a much safer pressure curve, and much easier for new reloaders to load safely, given that .1gr isn't going to make a dramatic difference in BP. Then you're upping to the equivalent of +P loads territory and still staying in the safe range not only for modern smokeless guns, but BP strength guns as well. Surprised you haven't been brigaded by the keyboard commandos for this one. :) Always a good idea to shoot a ladder and see where your particular gun settles in, even with BP.
“If you think it sucked, we’ll go make your own damn video”
Sir you have gained a subscriber 😂
The brass ammo industry manufactures a wide variance in the ammo it offers in each caliber, and the shooter goes through the ammo and determines what is best for him and his gun. The BP shooter doesn't get to do that so appreciates this kind of information to encourage him to find his own gun's sweet spot. Thanks.
thank you!
@@Everythingblackpowder Thank you brother for all that you do and have become a fan of your channel as I'm just getting started on BP pistols and showing sharing the knowledge to my two boys (7,8 and my daughter 14yr olds) as if I don't show'em what we learned, they'll pick it up elsewhere, and that ain't a good idea... Keep up the good work brother, best wishes from Los Angeles CA via South Central LA! 💥🇺🇲🤠
It’s amazing how fudd in internet gun culture is so pervasive. For 20+ years I thought it was impossible to get more than 35gr of black powder in a modern 45 Colt case because some guy on an Internet forum said so. Your video just tears that whole misconception down in 11 minutes. THANK you for putting this out there 🙏
Happy to help.
Part of the problem is that folks like this feller, and old geezers who have been there like me, get shouted down on the internet every time we try to dispel myths and pass on our knowledge. So many, if not most, of us old geezers have given up, and let them carry on with their foolishness. Most of these youngins don't even know that a lot of the claims they make were dispelled by the old loading manuals alone back in the day. We had good BP manuals back then, before they got lawyered up and watered down. I suggest that anyone with a real interest in BP shooting seek out the BP handbooks and manuals from the 70's, you'll be surprised here and there!
People forget that “ in the day “ there were no chronographs or high speed cameras. They did things based off the fact of it would work or not. Good to see the traditions alive. You just used the chronograph to prove it. Awesome.
Thank you
They used physics, a log on a rope of a certain weight, known length of rope, and someone standing to the side to record how high the log swunf could calculate out the energy absorbed by the target, calculate out the weight of the projectile and get the velocity at impact that way.
I've read they actually could calculate speed. They would tie a weighed log to a rope, shoot the log, and use calculations and how much the log moved to get speed.
@@JohnSmith-fq3rg That was back when people knew how to do math.
Wow! Thanks Jake. I don’t care if you didn’t use a Ransom Rest ,or digital satellite imagery , or a team of physicists and mathematicians. Forty grains of fff and a 250 grain lead flat point works for me.👍
Real world results are what matters in the real world.
Thank you! I feel the same way
This was super interesting. I’d always read that accuracy back in the late 1800s was poor among many soldiers with the 40gr load because the recoil was so stout. The first time I loaded mine up with 40gr I thought that I read the published load data wrong because the recoil was more stout than I anticipated and I shoot a decent amount of larger bore guns. But I didn’t want to leave an air gap either so I settled at 35gr as a happy medium with my Uberti Cattleman II with the 250gr Big Lube bullets. It’s nice to know that 40gr is perfectly fine though.
Always good fun and entertaining videos.
Thank you
I had a zip tie on my walker too. It was very good at keeping the lever up, and also great at removing the bluing. I switched to a leather thong, it was more gentle on the lever. I also tried removing the loading lever for shooting, but thats time consuming. Eventually i took the walker in and had some work done on the lever, and having a latch put in and using the lever on a dragoon worked well. A buddy of mine just changed the barrel, and a dragoon barrel fit just fine on his walker. In a world full of political crap on youtube, you do well bringing us videos that are straight forward. Thanks.
I use flat silk ribbons in black on my 2 Walkers. They work beautifully. I also used a triangular jeweler's file to widen the v-notch on the hammer. It gives a much better sight picture, and alignment is soo much easier under just about all lighting conditions.
30 seconds in and I already know... I like this guy "Jake".
Good day Jake! Good test!
Thanks Mike
What an absolute beauty that revolver is i might not really be able to get one myself over here in the land of tea and biscuits but I can appreciate a nice looking revolver simple yet elegant very nice indeed
Get a revolver that's cap and ball, I think they're legal bc they're muzzleloaders (in a way)
@@NORTH_CAROLINA_REAPERmaybe but it's pretty much impossible for your average Joe to get the required licences to even own a firearm in the first place over here and even then the only ones that are really available would be shotguns for sport and hunting purposes but the licensing pretty much requires you to have a reason for wanting one and it's usually reserved for farmers and the likes so yeah just about everything else is illegal like pistols in general are pretty much a no go and I'm pretty sure it's just more hassle than it's worth for your average Joe
@@markopolo1271 that's really unfortunate. You however COULD try airguns. I'd they're under 12 ft pounds they're legal. Definitely not the same but they're very good for anything between rats and rabbits.
@@NORTH_CAROLINA_REAPER I used some fairly high powered air rifles back in my high-school days quite a fair few years back now at some sort of outdoorsy event place that did like wigwam building, axe throwing and archery type activities and gotta admit those things are deceptively powerful I remember we were shooting some paper targets at the end of the range and they were stuck on steel plates and after I took my shots I went to collect the target paper only to feel the dents the lead pellets made in the steel sh*t was wild I vividly remember and still maintain the same sheer amazement at the power those things have but I'm fairly certain those were regulated airguns that require some sort of licensing to actually buy and own
My favorite handgun cartridge besides 5.7x28 and this guy does it great justice on camera
Mine is still 7.62x54mmR in an obrez
That’s what load development is, finding what works in your particular barrel best. Not rocket science but it needs to be said for some who don’t get it, what works in one person’s gun isn’t necessarily the best for everyone else with that model and production run. Each barrel has its own harmonics and needs to be loaded for individually.
Couldn't have been said better!
Hi there Jake, asked you about compression loads for this cartridge, & BAM, a video... Got a Ruger old army which got me addicted to black powder, never experimented with different loads, just what uncle told me to use[ back when he was alive]. Watching this has got me itching to drag the ol' girl out again & start playing again... thanks heaps....
Happy to help
Hey Old Mate! Don't ever stop making these videos. I love 'em all the way from Australia.
Thank you
Nice shooting!
Interesting to see the leading on the 45grn w/ 200 slug.
Thanks for sharing.
damn thats a lot of kinetic energy for black powder
Thank-you for all the time you put into these videos.
Happy to help
Way cool. Thanks for this.
It's amazing how you can weigh powder on a scale to the exact weight and load your pistol cylinder and the velocity when fired is high and low and the caps are hotter or cooler than each other and never get a level velocity that is the same! I've tried for 30 years and it's the same old up and down velocities !
Funny thing , i did try 45gr / 255gr on my Uberti Walker
and 30gr / 255gr on my Pietta 1858
Both one handed, and the Walker felt like pellet gun, while the Remington twist my wrist 😅 At almost 2time the weight, that behemot wont make you feel how hard he can really hit. But it surely do ! Because my chronograph di read ~1050fps with that 255 chunk of lead. That's 625 ft.lb 💪 ( Regular French PNF2 " Sport oriented " black powder is weaker than Goex, let alone Swiss powder. But still impressive from a 1847 Colt design imo )
I can hear the supersonic crack with those 200 grain pills
Well done and very informative video Sir.
Thank you!
Very interesting. Thank you very much for going through this work. My Uberti 1860 Henry rifle loves a 255 gr FN with 38 gr 3F. You are correct. These loads are powerful
Main thing is what size of bullet goes from cylinder chamber and then enters cone. If too small then jumps in pipe.
I used reamer, did job on cylinder. 457 bullets are nice tight fit. Better accuracy gained.
Is good to see you learned the Walker way of shooting, that old Colt Walker. Found early on, that string was important and considered a must have for shooting any Colt Walker or black powder revolver that did not have a keep on the loading lever.
Fast lead bullets in a 24" rifle lead even worse. PRS bullets (Big Lube) help, but powder coating totally cured it for me. I appreciate your efforts in making various BP recipies. Thanks!
Excellent test and...EXCELLENT RESULTS! That 40 grain load with a 250 gr. Flat point has got to produce kinetic energy VERY CLOSE to that of a .357 mag. Suffice it to say, that's damned impressive for a design that started in 1847 and upgraded with period-like upgrades to say, 1868 to 1870 standards. Those are incredible ballistic results, absolutely incredible! I once had to tell a couple of "black powder naysayers:" 'YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NEVER VISITED SOME CIVIL WAR GRAVEYARDS!" Suffice it to say, that shut them up very quickly!
I've long argued that the .357 Mag did not surpass the actual striking power of the .45 Colt 40 grain black powder load in 1935, and that it took the 44 Magnum in 1955 to finally surpass the striking power of the .45 Colt 40 gr BP loading.
The .357 Mag in 1935, from a 8 3/8" barrel revolver, moved a 158 gr bullet at 1450 fps, for 738 ft/lbs of KE(Kinetic Energy), and a striking force that moved a 100 pound Ballistic Pendulum at 3.93 inches per second.
In this video, from a 9" revolver barrel, EBP shows the .45 Colt 40 gr 3Fg loading moving the 250 gr bullet at 1068 fps, for 633 ft/lbs of KE but an actual striking force moving the 100 pound Balliistic Pendulum at 4.58 inches per second, a 16.5% greater striking force than the original .357 Magnum in 1935.
KE does not measure bullet striking force. KE is the calculated theoretical pressure required to accelerate the given bullet weight to stated velocity against gravitational and aerodynamic resistance. The .357 requires 738 ft / lbs of KE [ 1.34 HP!] to accelerate the 158 gr bullet to 1450 fps, while the .45 Colt requires 633 ft/lbs [1.15 HP] to accelerate the 250 gr bullet to 1068 ft/sec. The .357 requires so much more KE because the bullet has to be acclerated to 1450fps. Accelerating a 158 gr bullet past 1068 fps to 1450 fps would require 84% more KE! Doubling the velocity of a given bullet weight would require 4 times more KE. Even with the greater KE, the .357 Mag gives less striking force than the 45 Colt 40 gr BP load, as demonstrated by EBP!
[NOTE: The Colt Dragoon revolvers were actually more powerful than the .45 Colt 40 grain BP loading, because where cartridge manufacturers loaded the .45 Colt with either 2Fg ( about 950 fps) or 3Fg ( 1068 fps as shown in this video), the Dragoons were often loaded with very fine grained Hazard Number One Pistol Powder (4Fg), either a load of 40 grains under a 220 gr conical or 36 grains under a 260 grain conical, which could get the 260 grain conical to 1100+ fps]
@63DW89A Beautiful technical points!
Nice comparison, great shooting, no suck as usual !
Thank you
Thanks for the evaluations. The way things have been going we may all be using black powder for our shooting needs.
Thought it was very eye opening given the round balls are about 145 grains out the walkers. So yea I can see why the powder would be a lot less as well. Very informative. Keep your powder dry
Nice vid, and I am 100% in agreement about the full charges. I won BP category at a state Cowboy Action Match using 40 grains of Goex Cowboy (now discontinued, but basically a fine 2F with velocities between 2 & 3F) under my hand-cast 255 grain "big lube" bullets. I have personally found that going below 35 grains in the big Colt case leaves more fouling unless a filler is used. Mostest compressedest is the bestest...or something like that.
Lol, bitchin
@@Everythingblackpowder😂
Anyone who tells ya ‘black powder isn’t useful for self defence”, just smile and carry on.
Great Video
Thank you
i really shouldn't be watching this from where i live - i'd probably have to apply for a license from the home office! 🤫
Amazing to see about the same barrel rise with a gun heavier than an 1873.
It would be extremely interesting to see what happens if you put the same 40gr of 3F in the percussion cylinder under a 250gr conical type bullet and see if your velocities are similar to the same self contained cartridge load. I'm guessing it would be a good bit slower from the percussion cylinder because of gas leakage through the nipple.
I have to admit, you do have a steady pull on rifle and revolver shots.
Great Video, Man!
Thank you
Your information is very good 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👍💪
Thank you
Your 40 grain load was an eye-opener, at what distance was the target? Pretty impressive shooting
18 yards
Jake the other day i made my first BP, i used cedar and the powder was not as good as goex, 50gr. in my 40 flintlock was like shooting 40gr. of goex. and it was nasty! i live on the Edisto River in SC, it is full of river willows, millions of them on the banks. tomorrow me and a friend are going to commandeer some! i will see how they work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I agree with you. For me I use a 38-grain charge of BP with Lyman's 454190 for Cowboy shooting. It works well in my Colt SAAs and my Ruger old armies with a Krist cylinder, not a SASS legal velocity but at the club no one cares because they love the show and that cannon blast.
Nice test! The walker is a beast
Thank you
Impressive! I may try a few similar loads through my Taurus Judge, for shits and giggles.
Another great video
Thank you
Great video! Any recommendations on cleaning brass after using blackpowder?
I use a Frankfort arsenal wet tumbler. It’s the only way to fly.
@@Everythingblackpowder Thanks! I will try one out. 👍
That didn’t suck.
Love your stuff !!
@@georgeriedel9357 thank you
Excellent video comparison! Nice patterns, especially for handheld. Have you considered a benchrest? Just kidding! 😉
Thank you!
This is a fantastic video--I'm so tired of guesses and unsupported opinions. I want hard numbers with repeatable results. The most interesting part of this for me was that I have always heard that Swiss doesn't like compression, but your results clearly showed that to be wrong. I haven't tried 40 grains (I use 35 grains of Schuetzen 3F with a 250-grain RNFP bullet) because I was warned that some of the better powders didn't like compression, but I am really curious to do so now.
Thank you!
you know there really are some idiots out there that just know everything and they tell on their self after you start showing them wrong. you keep up the good work because you sure showed them up. keep ye powder dry
Thank you
I like your video! You helped me a lot.
Glad to hear it. Thank you
I know this video's 2 years old, but here goes anyway. The 200gr bullet is still consistent with the max spread. On average across all four loadings you're gaining 1fps of spread per 25fps velocity. If anything, it's a testament to how consistent swiss powder is. The 200gr being all over the place makes sense because the slow rifling in the repros was never meant to see let alone stabilize supersonic projectiles. Every shot of the 200/40 loads was supersonic. They grouped pretty well, considering.
Thank you. The twist rate in this reproduction Walker is 1-18
Kool video.. swiss for me is hard to find. Sold out in alot of places
Would love to see these loads out of a rifle.
Absolutely love your vids.
Thank you
Lol that hot plowboy round is smoking!
It’s the only way to fly
I wonder if the velocity was the reason for the leading. Maybe a wad would protect the bullet better? Or a harder bullet?
I’m sure the velocity is the culprit. A wad might help but the bullets are hard cast so if you wanted a harder bullet you would need a jacketed bullet. I was going to try it with some powder coated lead bullets
@@Everythingblackpowder curious how that will work. Maybe even a gas checked bullet. I commented that late last night when tired. I guess a thin wad would fit that isn’t thicker than the 50gr missing from the bottom of the bullet. I learned my lesson trying to get a full bp powder charge in a .44 russian case with a wad and 240gr bullet. Had to subtract the wad or some powder. It made the powder like a solid chunk from all the compression lol. I was new. Now I just use the wad and less powder.
Also, consider powder coating your lead bullets.
600 ft/lb 😮 Billy the Kid was laying down some heavy lead back in the day.
I edc a .32acp mouse gun that is at 120ft/lb LOL. My accuracy is dead nut on target, single hole at that 5 yard distances. I doubt I'll even need more distances than 5 yards, I'm fast a hell too. I've tried 380, 9mm, 45 acp and unfortunately I'm not fast , the weight of the gun, bigger barrel, and recoil all add up to slow me. Also too annoying to carry, go running, hiking, church, or conceal carry with out it digging into my comfort areas.
To think they would quick draw with a heavy revolver is nuts.
Very cool to see , I appreciate you doing a chronograph, and freehand to give a realistic shot group.😊
Thank you
Great video! (I say that partly because I don't want to have to make my own... besides, my results wouldn't be any different than yours.) Nice, knowledgeable, level headed analysis of black powder .45 Colt loads. And, like I said, your results pretty much duplicate my own. I've told people for years that I simply load 40 grains of FFFg, and the first thing some of them ask is "where do you get balloon head cases these days?" When I tell them that I use modern solid head cases, they tell me "that's impossible. They won't hold that much. Everyone knows that." Uh huh... I have made one "modern" concession, I will admit - I use a bullet with a crimping groove rather than crimping over the ogive. I like the Lyman #452664. Its flatter than original flat point makes it a wonderful hunting bullet, at least in my experience.
That 40 grain load is a thumper. The real reason the 45 Colt was called the great equalizer. 😁
It’s pretty impressive!
Have not finished watching yet so don't know the conclusions, I just thought I would add that loading instructions for the Whitworth hexagonal rifle was to gently seat the bullet ....zero compression ....always thought that was odd
Have you ever used the Lee 300 gr flat nose bullet? That one may give a higher ftlb at a given powder charge, and is about perfect for hunting deer with a pistol. It is basically a Keith bullet and can be used with a copper base to reduce leading.
Elmer Keith’s Black Powder 45 Colt Load
ua-cam.com/video/szSempNa3gI/v-deo.html
Outstanding!!❤
Thank you
great vid. for me a walker is for hunting. i would use your heavy load. for plinking 36 cal rem. 18 gr. 3f and round ball. 36 is a great walk around revolver for rabbits' and tin cans. walker and ruger oa deer hunting.👍👍👍👍👍
Agreed.
How much of a difference do you suppose a 7.5in barrel would make in the velocity of these rounds
Not much, maybe 50fps if I had to take a guess
While testing the 200 gr LFP was the gun louder? The bullet finally broke the sound barrier, I couldn’t imagine the connonous sound it would rip.
Yes it was louder
Stumbled across your channel by accident and subscribed after watching two videos. I ran a lot of black powder back in the eighties, mostly in .36 and .44, 1851 Navy and 1860 Army. They were always compressed loads. Has been interesting to watch you experiment with fillers and wads and different charges, very informative. I am now getting the urge to start running black powder again, thanks to your channel 😂. No longer have the 1861, but do have the 1851, along with two .45 Colts, one being a Blackhawk Bisley, the other is a SAA clone. I have GOT to now try some BP loads in .45. Have you tried any in .45 ACP? I know that would be unusual, but it would be interesting. Anyway, thanks for your work in producing the videos.
Glad to hear it. I have tried 45acp with black powder. I have a few videos on it. It works pretty well. Thanks
@@Everythingblackpowder thanks for the response. I'll have to check out those videos.
@@wendyvic4046 here is the most recent one
ua-cam.com/users/shortsKPpL4cCg8Fc?feature=share
@@Everythingblackpowder just watched that one. Fascinating. You running an 18lb recoil spring?
Whatever the firearm came with, I couldn’t say exactly what it is
Good test - thanks.👍
Thank you
I am commenting on this vid because I cant remember where that vid is. You compress you milled BP once and relieve pressure. You must grind it again and do it as many times as you have time for. In a facrory of old think when they wet stone milled with a 50 to 100ton stone. The same process happend once every min for days on end. At the higher pressure the temp increase and higer temp and pressure Potassiun Nitrate dissolve much much better, then relivieve the pressure quickly and the temp will fall and the PN will form small crystals in the Charcoal. That was the full idea behind it, a better mix/intamacy between C/S/KNO3. The Puck as you call it is not to make F/FF/FFF but to better mix. Stop your day long ball mill in the middle and make puck's then mill the made pucks again and do you normal process as you do, 100% sure you will have cleaner burn and more bang for your buck
Use fiberwad gas checks behind the 200 gr bullets.
Great video, thanks.
By the way, it's not worser, it's most worstest.
Very interesting video, I do not think it sucks but I will try to make my own videos cause where I live, in Poland, black powder shooting knowledge is desired but not easy availible in Polish language.
But I admire Your editing, need some time to make Your recordings as informative and accesible as possible.
Cheers man !
I thought you weren't supposed to go over 850fps with the cartridge conversion cylinder, is that just smokeless powder or because I have the new army 1858... Or both/ neither?
Personally I don’t go over 800fps with Smokeless ammo In a conversion and I I only use lead bullets, No jacketed rounds. I don’t worry about fps with black powder ammo the pressure curve is too low to cause any damage
Awesome, I have some cowboy loads was going to reload them with black powder after firing them, going to try out some different loads and see what kind of results I get!
Right on
Everyone on "the tube" keeps making me sure of my thoughts and firearms HISTORY?
lead projectiles should not go supersonic but stay around 1050 max.
BUT YOU HAD SOME RAGGED Holes for a few groups!
Ahw man use your powder? PLEASE?
Keep those Smoke Poles SMOKING! and you are Well Heeled.
i can't wait to test all mine in the Test Me Box!
Relatively new to casting. Your last load you said leaded the barrel a lot. Is that from high velocity and soft lead? Are adding things like gas checks or antimony of value in your opinion?
I am wanting to try c & r rifles with cast bullets and light black powder loads.
Love all of the tinkering and testing on your channel.
I would sure like to know what 35 grains of triple 7 would do in that load.
Very good numbers. What can you get with 60gr of BP under a 454 round ball with the original cylinder? Your leading might be because you were using 452 boolits.
With 55gr of 3F Swiss and a .454 round ball it averages mid 1100fps
New sub here. I’ve been reloading for several years and was asked to load some black powder 45 Colt loads for a family member. Having zero experience with BP I started researching because none of my manuals mention it. This is how I came across your channel, as well as Mike Beliveau’s, and I noticed he’s using big lube bullets while it appears you’re using more conventional lead bullets with smaller grooves. Mike seems adamant about a liberal amount of lube. Are the smaller grooves sufficient because you’re using better lube or is there another step I’m unaware of? Keep up the entertaining videos! Thanks.
That was the kind of video where I learn something. I always loaded Unique Smokeless powder and never looked at Black Powder for .45 Colt. I may have to take another look what kind of lube did you use on the bullets also did you cast your own? Oh the video didn't suck!
these are rim rock bullets that I melt the lube off and re lube them with my homemade BP lube made from lambs tallow and beeswax. I really like unique powder for its versatility but I would have to load 45 Colt with 10gr or more to get velocities like these BP loads, and it would definitely have higher pressures that would be safe for an open top gun like the Walker.
I just ran across your channel yesterday and I am interested in basically all guns I've been shooting the 45 Colt since the fifties and I've always been just a little bit curious about BP firearms never owned one only have modern cartridge firearms and of course I don't intend to load BP cartridges but I find it interesting to see I just might have to fool around with it a bit are the Colt clones okay for BP like a uberti SAA
Absolutely
Those velocities are impressive, definitely more than recommended for my conversion cylinders. Would love to reload my own loads, just don’t want to get in over my head and grenade my cylinder and lose a limb(s) only to end up on an episode of Darwin Awards as I’m just getting into black powder shooting and reloading.
Black powder is much more forgiving than smokeless
Do you find that swiss fouls less than goex?
Absolutely
Thanks I also shoot 40 grains but I use 777 powder and a 255 grain hard cast. I always wondered what the fps was. This is a stout load and I believe would be good even against bear. Again thanks again buddy.
I’m sure it would! 777 is more powerful than real black powder
I assume your powder charges are by VOLUME and not weight. Right? When I developed a 40-82 load in an early 1895 marlin, I used pyrodex (couldn't get black powder in Alaska). I determined what 82 grains-volume actually weighed with pyrodex, then thereafter weighed each charge. I know it is probably silly to put that much precision in a black powder rifle, but for what I shoot, I didn't mind the extra work.
Black Powder Basics. Yes you CAN weigh black powder!
ua-cam.com/video/IPbC1XvpY3M/v-deo.html
Outstanding information as always. Thank you for your effort to dispell all the myths out here on the shooters net.
impressive how the 40 grain has more energy than .357 magnum
Yep
@@Everythingblackpowder my whole life people told me that .45 long colt in black powder was comparable in power to .44 special only
@@gustavesoucy-breton6841 nope
Are you in S.D.? Looks like my old home town backdrop. Go Bulldawgs.
Have you ever used a drop tube? I find that my .45-70 bp loads were more consistent with the drop tube. 8)
Yes. I didn’t see any difference in performance.
I know a bunch of C$B target shooters in the N-SSA shooting @ 25 & 50 yd. They get the best accuracy with 18-20 gn 3f using a filler to top off chamber. I have tried the same load with a round ball just lightly crimped in the 45 LC for nice light accurate loads colt clone
Yep, I’m posting a video on that tomorrow
Should do a vid just on the cylinder for those interested in something similar
The lead in the barrel might be because the lead is too soft are the bullets may need gas checks problems happen with lead bullets at high velocities the hardness of the lead really matters
What's with you smart-ass kids showing off with your fancy metal cartridges? You're clearly doing well with yours though, so I can't knock them. Nice work!
I'm curious how you got your Walker to shoot somewhere near POA (as presumably it does?). I had to replace my factory front sight with a much taller one.
In my Walker I use a paper cartridge with 45 grains Swiss or O.E., and either a 200 grn flat point, a 225 gr FP, or a 217 gr flat hollowpoint. Each with a lube cookie (card, lube, card) behind the bullet. Pure lead cast bullets, and no discernible barrel leading.
Thank you. It shoots high but I know where to hold so I can make it look respectable.
Sir I was just sitting here and thinking about the 200 grain load and how much leading you got in the bore. Eduard Rubin did almost all of his development of jacketed bullets with compressed and uncompressed black powder. Could you (if it’s possible) do a test of black powder bullets with a normal lead, poly coated lead, and copper jacketed bullet, with black powder?
You bet
I have played around with some compress loads in 45 colt also which is why I was glad to see this video. The only negative is that in a lighter revolver such as the Uberti Cattleman, the recoil is quite stout and it really bangs my fingers, LOL. I think in the Walker, with its' weight, that would tame the recoil substantially. BTW, did you install the krist converter yourself, or did you have them do it?
Jake, I am becoming quite interested in a cap and ball revolver. but before i lay down hundreds of dollars on one, I am wondering if I can safely shoot black powder in my S&W 629 44 Magnum revolver. It would seem like I could, but I don't know how much pressure will be in a case nearly full of black powder. I know they burn differently. but I would rather ask and be safe than ruin a good gun.
You can’t fit enough black powder in a 44 magnum case to cause an over pressure situation. so there’s no danger there
Can we expect a .45 BPM any time soon from your Walker? ;)
They are more powerful than the box says. I have a 1858 replica
Interesting that your 30 grain load has the current "standard" smokeless load ballistics at a much safer pressure curve, and much easier for new reloaders to load safely, given that .1gr isn't going to make a dramatic difference in BP. Then you're upping to the equivalent of +P loads territory and still staying in the safe range not only for modern smokeless guns, but BP strength guns as well. Surprised you haven't been brigaded by the keyboard commandos for this one. :)
Always a good idea to shoot a ladder and see where your particular gun settles in, even with BP.
Another great video. Question: I would like to try bp under a .45 Hornady 250 gr. xtp any recommendation, I shoot colt SAA 4 3/4" barrels.
I haven’t experimented much with jacketed rounds and BP in 45 Colt but I would go with 40gr of 3F
@@Everythingblackpowder thank you
Have you used a drop tube when charging cases?
O,yes,cool