In the IBC, stair width must be 44" b/w stringers when the occup load is greater than 50. 48" between handrails when the stair is an ADA accessible means of egress.
If I am needing to correct something please let me know. I agree and understand your statement I just don't know that the video doesn't state that information. As for ADA. I don't believe ADA actually states the minimum width of the stair. The accessible portion of IBC and/or ANSI may. Certainly thank you for your comment do want to learn, can you point out a little more specific on the information. Additionally this video is only covering really how to work through the calculations to see if indeed a 48 inch wide stair is sized appropriately
You're right. Not ADA. Accessible width is just in IBC. Video is not wrong, just more often than not the building is sprinkled so the stair doesn't need to be accessible. Great video still!! Great work.
I certainly appreciate your comments and any education. I truly do these things more for my education. With the diligence of people like yourself I learn a lot more. I've told many people that I work with I work and learn better by being corrected, so I don't mind putting myself out there. That's what these are all about is to point out flaws in my thinking. Again thank you very much I've got 4 more coming real soon
@@t10five What section in IBC are referring to? Section 1011? I think that at least one stair min. needs to be accessible as per ADA (however, ahj (authority having jurisdiction) may require all of the egress stairs to be accessible as well. I am not familiar with sprinkler system can provide an exception to this ADA requirement.
Following-up the sections in the code are 1011.2 IBC 2021 - Min width for stair is 44 inches. VS 1009.3.2 IBC 2021 - Min stair width says 48 inches between handrails. (2 exceptions for the 48 inches area of refuge and Sprinklered System) What is the diference for the accesible means of egress stair vs the one in sec 1011.2 ? Thank you those videos are aswome!!! 😍
I just watched a few of your videos and want to thank you for the clarify! Well done. If you are still looking for questions, what about this: How, exactly, are areas supposed to be measured for IBC calculations? Face of finish? Face of structure? Outside face of exterior walls? What can be excluded? Etc, etc...
Unless I missed something on the door requirement in the first example the door minimum is 32" so the 2 doors at 24" do not meet this requirement. This makes this example not code compliant, the doors need to be increased to 32" each.
32 inches is the minimum code requirement for any door width. What I'm showing by the 24 inches is what you need for code minimum four exit inches only. There are many other requirements such as minimum door width.
@@MartyHuie I too am confused by what you meant in the video by "this is code compliant." Did you mean if the width of the door is increased to 32 inches it is code compliant?
The video is correct. I think what we are all missing here is overlapping requirements. This is an extreme example and will not be code compliant all the way through that I'm getting ready to explain I'm wanting to explain the extreme to help paint how we might need to explain the code.. If we had 10 people and we were needing to pass through a door, we would need to take 10 people and tried to figure out the door width. So what we would do is take 10 people and multiply it by the factor required, which is .2 that would give us 2 inches. So using only the exit width requirement. All we would need is a door that was 2 inches wide. But there's another requirement saying a door cannot be less than 32 inches wide. In order to be considered an exit
I believe he means that the doors need to be increased to the minimum width of 32" each. Not sure why he explained it in such a confusing way. Taken literally, he implied that the width of 24" is code compliant...glad he clarified in this message stream.
I thought that handrail projections are allowed within the calculated "capacity of means of egress stairways" (section 1005.7.2 of IBC 2015). Hence, your 48" clearance (3:22 min) between the handrails is a requirement for accessible means of egress not for non-accessible egresses which are allowed (though a lot of architects these days seem to make all stairways a priori an accessible means of egress). Anyway, as per IBC, my understanding is that stairway capacity width calculating using the capacity factor is the min width of the stair (not including handrails (allows 4 1/2" projection), and trim which is allowed to project 1 1/2"). So 44 - 9 = 35 & 36 - 9 = 27 (when less than 50 people) is the min, correct?
Correct, I do believe I make a comment that 44 inches is permitted for less than 50 persons and or something about handrails are measured on the inside if they are less than 48 inches the dimension but generally, You are correct the handrails are allowed to project Know that NFPA requires 2 1/4 inches between your handrail and the next nearest obstruction different than IBC fire Marshall's For the extra depth of 2 1/4 inches Because of their gloves
Thank you for the video! I have a question that I hope you can answer: when is ADA stair required in a building? An ADA stair requires a minimum of 48" between the handrails, but IBC only requires 44" including the handrails and 36" for occ. load less than 50. This would make a big difference to the design. To make it more confusing, I can't find clear width requirement for stairs in ICC A117.1. So where is the 48" requirement coming from?
Also a few more parameters about how many square feet per floor is the building fully sprinkled are not what year IBC are you needing a follow, generally what is the occupancy type of the building
@@MartyHuieMy project is in WA. This is a small commercial project, about 4500sf per floor. It needs to be spinklered per code. The occ. type is Business.
@@darrenchang2907 I'm not sure I understand, if it has business occupancy unsprinklered you could build 9000 ft.² per floor yet if it is sprinkled each floor could be 27,000 ft.² per table 506.2 the 2021 IBC I believe it's similar to all of the versions. Yeah if you're sprinkling the building the exception say you don't have to have the 48 inches between handrails for the building code but you quoted ADA. ADA doesn't have that requirement I'm trying to understand where you're getting your information. Careful, the accessible requirements in the building code or not the ADA requirements they are totally different where a building official may be able to waive an accessible requirement in the building code they cannot ever wave and ADA requirement, and don't let anybody ever tell you otherwise. Being sad all the above, there may be other reasons you are needing to do some of what you're suggesting yet I am not finding it
@@MartyHuie OK, let me start over. My question comes to this: I have a 3-story commercial building in WA. Each floor has an occ type of Business and each has 4500sf. The occ. load is therefore 30 people per floor. I only need one egress stair in this case b/c my occ load is less than 50. What is the stair width? In IBC the minimum width is 36" if the occ < 50. Can I use 36" stairs? Does ADA play a role on this issue?
Nicely done. We're heading to a design review in the AM, so it's a good refresher for a junior inspector trying to help with plans review. Unrelated Q: How do you calculate "standing room only" when you have limited the non-fixed seating to allow adequate aisle spaces? For instance, if there is "wasted" space of 200 sq ft not required for aisles or chairs in a 2000 sq ft room, can you allow 40 more people to stand against the walls?
Not sure I totally understand the question, but let me try to describe something and see if this helps. Unless it is fixed seating or there is a clear and obvious Isle/path you would take the square footage of the entire room and use the appropriate number 7 for chairs 15 for tables and chairs and standing room only 5 ft.². Let's call it a dance floor, and there's a path to the bathroom, I cannot claim that path has no occupant load. I need to claim it has the standing room only occupant load for the function around it dictates it. Typically people are trying to limit the number of people in a space not try to get more in it. If you can accommodate the larger number and you have adequate exit capacity there is no reason why you could not accommodate the additional people standing in the corner.
Marty Huie Yep, I think we agree on the concept. Aisle reqmts are determined by the adjacent uses (seating, tables). So, if we've allowed enough clear aisle space in and around the seated areas, then we can allow standing room, up to the 5 sfpp limit in the remaining spaces.
Priscilla Cuadra Let me try to explain this a different way If you have to steal that is 48 inches wide and you divide that by .3 i.e. the factor get a number of 160. That is the maximum allowable number of persons, allowed to move down those stairs Can you do the same thing for the door but you use the door factor which is typically .2 the door remember it’s the clear door width not the whole width of the door. So yes you have a floor and you have two stairs you would divide by two for the two stairs then take the total number of persons and multiply by .3 and that will give you the minimum width of the stair that is required. Remember there’s also minimum code widths for the stair as well
I confirmed NFPA 101-2018 and IBC. Bath criteria were about same. There was a different between NET and GROSS, but since major does not change. Therefore, your video is correct, I think. Thank you very much, I'm doing architectural work at US Army Japan. Japanese architects are required not only for building but also knowledge on fire protection and structure. Therefore, many Americans ask us a variety of questions to architects in Japan. We respond instantly as far as Japan's Building Standards Act, but they have many questions about NFPA 101 and IBC. Why do Americans do not know American criteria? When acquiring qualifications, do not you study criteria in the United States?
+Natalie Burgos - - Yes, both in number and width required. Stairs are the same as well width and number. The added benefit of sprinkler building is (height, area and travel distance to an exit)
In the realm of buidling code, I'm trying to determine what is the minimum distance from a exit route to obstructed (materials or equipment) may be placed permanently or temporarily, within the exit route.
+Steven Torres sorry not understanding "realm" for hospitals, I have heard it said 20min's but also if it is wheels then it may be a bit longer. exit width is exit width and that needs to be there always
+Marty Huie Thank you for your reply. I'm trying to figure out what is the acceptable distance i can place materials (i.e. furniture) within the exit route.
+Steven Torres Am I to assume your working in a hospital? if so do you have a categorical waiver to use 2012 LSC? for that is they only way you could do that. Even then if your not a federal facility you would need to get your local fire marshal to agree as well. All that said, I don't know for I have not tryed to do this yet, for we have not gotten a Waiver for such yet
+Oliver Yu agreed, I will say though for quick calculations or documentation with the authority having jurisdiction if those items throw you over your likely going to have issues later in the building I've had a building were that's what was calculated removing all those items. And then the owner decided to change an area from offices to assembly we had to get really creative i.e. making a horizontal exit
as a relates to exiting and healthcare, time is not required. I do know from previous work,, when exiiting off of a train platform or out of an airplane time is a requirement. For healthcare and architectural buildings it is only travel distance and exit inches
This is from there website, so yes, there may be some variations do to the year, what is your question Welcome to the International Fire Code New Jersey Edition 2006 website. This site has been updated with the 2006 IFC NJ Version errata February 2009.
Not sure what is m2, any level exchange exit ie door should use .2 that is the door to a stair or HZ exit or door to the outside. .2 is the number for most codes other than IBC 2003
Where I might have used .3 for stairs you would use 7.6 for mm and where I used to .2, you would use 5. Using the inches, where we might have 34 inches required in millimeters it would be 865 mm required. The math would just need to be translated. The idea is exactly the same
There is an error in your video, I don't want others to get confused. From IBC 1005.3.1 stairways must be calculated 0.3" per occupant (0.2" in sprinkled building) and from section 1005.3.2 corridors are doors are calculated 0.2" per occupant (0.15" per occupant in sprinkled buildings)
You are absolutely correct for non-sprinkle building. Those are the numbers. As I've stated in my first video video number one and the introduction video. These are all based on healthcare in understanding the code. Healthcare is a required building to be sprinkled. Therefore, the numbers are correct. And I do not give specific years and or code sections for if you look back in the code. Those numbers also have changed .15 was removed at one point and then replaced back. .2 and .3 have always remained. Additionally, NFPA has modified these numbers from time to time as well. I'm glad you're getting something out of the video for you're able to pick those items up. If nothing else.
In the IBC, stair width must be 44" b/w stringers when the occup load is greater than 50. 48" between handrails when the stair is an ADA accessible means of egress.
If I am needing to correct something please let me know. I agree and understand your statement I just don't know that the video doesn't state that information.
As for ADA. I don't believe ADA actually states the minimum width of the stair. The accessible portion of IBC and/or ANSI may.
Certainly thank you for your comment do want to learn, can you point out a little more specific on the information.
Additionally this video is only covering really how to work through the calculations to see if indeed a 48 inch wide stair is sized appropriately
You're right. Not ADA. Accessible width is just in IBC. Video is not wrong, just more often than not the building is sprinkled so the stair doesn't need to be accessible. Great video still!! Great work.
I certainly appreciate your comments and any education. I truly do these things more for my education. With the diligence of people like yourself I learn a lot more. I've told many people that I work with I work and learn better by being corrected, so I don't mind putting myself out there. That's what these are all about is to point out flaws in my thinking.
Again thank you very much I've got 4 more coming real soon
@@t10five What section in IBC are referring to? Section 1011? I think that at least one stair min. needs to be accessible as per ADA (however, ahj (authority having jurisdiction) may require all of the egress stairs to be accessible as well. I am not familiar with sprinkler system can provide an exception to this ADA requirement.
Following-up the sections in the code are 1011.2 IBC 2021 - Min width for stair is 44 inches. VS 1009.3.2 IBC 2021 - Min stair width says 48 inches between handrails. (2 exceptions for the 48 inches area of refuge and Sprinklered System) What is the diference for the accesible means of egress stair vs the one in sec 1011.2 ? Thank you those videos are aswome!!! 😍
thank you for this video! very helpful!
I just watched a few of your videos and want to thank you for the clarify! Well done. If you are still looking for questions, what about this: How, exactly, are areas supposed to be measured for IBC calculations? Face of finish? Face of structure? Outside face of exterior walls? What can be excluded? Etc, etc...
vary good question, I will do one. but in short the table says net or gross
Unless I missed something on the door requirement in the first example the door minimum is 32" so the 2 doors at 24" do not meet this requirement. This makes this example not code compliant, the doors need to be increased to 32" each.
32 inches is the minimum code requirement for any door width. What I'm showing by the 24 inches is what you need for code minimum four exit inches only. There are many other requirements such as minimum door width.
@@MartyHuie I too am confused by what you meant in the video by "this is code compliant." Did you mean if the width of the door is increased to 32 inches it is code compliant?
The video is correct. I think what we are all missing here is overlapping requirements. This is an extreme example and will not be code compliant all the way through that I'm getting ready to explain I'm wanting to explain the extreme to help paint how we might need to explain the code.. If we had 10 people and we were needing to pass through a door, we would need to take 10 people and tried to figure out the door width. So what we would do is take 10 people and multiply it by the factor required, which is .2 that would give us 2 inches. So using only the exit width requirement. All we would need is a door that was 2 inches wide. But there's another requirement saying a door cannot be less than 32 inches wide. In order to be considered an exit
@@MartyHuie understood, thank you for the video! it is really helping me study for the ARE.
I believe he means that the doors need to be increased to the minimum width of 32" each. Not sure why he explained it in such a confusing way. Taken literally, he implied that the width of 24" is code compliant...glad he clarified in this message stream.
Where did you come up with the figure 184.2” at 4:33? Did you mean 154.2”?
I thought that handrail projections are allowed within the calculated "capacity of means of egress stairways" (section 1005.7.2 of IBC 2015). Hence, your 48" clearance (3:22 min) between the handrails is a requirement for accessible means of egress not for non-accessible egresses which are allowed (though a lot of architects these days seem to make all stairways a priori an accessible means of egress). Anyway, as per IBC, my understanding is that stairway capacity width calculating using the capacity factor is the min width of the stair (not including handrails (allows 4 1/2" projection), and trim which is allowed to project 1 1/2"). So 44 - 9 = 35 & 36 - 9 = 27 (when less than 50 people) is the min, correct?
Correct, I do believe I make a comment that 44 inches is permitted for less than 50 persons and or something about handrails are measured on the inside if they are less than 48 inches the dimension but generally, You are correct the handrails are allowed to project
Know that NFPA requires 2 1/4 inches between your handrail and the next nearest obstruction different than IBC fire Marshall's For the extra depth of 2 1/4 inches Because of their gloves
Thank you for the video! I have a question that I hope you can answer: when is ADA stair required in a building? An ADA stair requires a minimum of 48" between the handrails, but IBC only requires 44" including the handrails and 36" for occ. load less than 50. This would make a big difference to the design. To make it more confusing, I can't find clear width requirement for stairs in ICC A117.1. So where is the 48" requirement coming from?
First of all I need some help, state ADA requires a minimum of 48 inches between handrails. Can you please send me that section number
Also a few more parameters about how many square feet per floor is the building fully sprinkled are not what year IBC are you needing a follow, generally what is the occupancy type of the building
@@MartyHuieMy project is in WA. This is a small commercial project, about 4500sf per floor. It needs to be spinklered per code. The occ. type is Business.
@@darrenchang2907 I'm not sure I understand, if it has business occupancy unsprinklered you could build 9000 ft.² per floor yet if it is sprinkled each floor could be 27,000 ft.² per table 506.2 the 2021 IBC I believe it's similar to all of the versions. Yeah if you're sprinkling the building the exception say you don't have to have the 48 inches between handrails for the building code but you quoted ADA. ADA doesn't have that requirement I'm trying to understand where you're getting your information. Careful, the accessible requirements in the building code or not the ADA requirements they are totally different where a building official may be able to waive an accessible requirement in the building code they cannot ever wave and ADA requirement, and don't let anybody ever tell you otherwise. Being sad all the above, there may be other reasons you are needing to do some of what you're suggesting yet I am not finding it
@@MartyHuie OK, let me start over. My question comes to this: I have a 3-story commercial building in WA. Each floor has an occ type of Business and each has 4500sf. The occ. load is therefore 30 people per floor. I only need one egress stair in this case b/c my occ load is less than 50. What is the stair width? In IBC the minimum width is 36" if the occ < 50. Can I use 36" stairs? Does ADA play a role on this issue?
Nicely done. We're heading to a design review in the AM, so it's a good refresher for a junior inspector trying to help with plans review.
Unrelated Q: How do you calculate "standing room only" when you have limited the non-fixed seating to allow adequate aisle spaces? For instance, if there is "wasted" space of 200 sq ft not required for aisles or chairs in a 2000 sq ft room, can you allow 40 more people to stand against the walls?
Not sure I totally understand the question, but let me try to describe something and see if this helps. Unless it is fixed seating or there is a clear and obvious Isle/path you would take the square footage of the entire room and use the appropriate number 7 for chairs 15 for tables and chairs and standing room only 5 ft.². Let's call it a dance floor, and there's a path to the bathroom, I cannot claim that path has no occupant load. I need to claim it has the standing room only occupant load for the function around it dictates it. Typically people are trying to limit the number of people in a space not try to get more in it. If you can accommodate the larger number and you have adequate exit capacity there is no reason why you could not accommodate the additional people standing in the corner.
Marty Huie Yep, I think we agree on the concept. Aisle reqmts are determined by the adjacent uses (seating, tables). So, if we've allowed enough clear aisle space in and around the seated areas, then we can allow standing room, up to the 5 sfpp limit in the remaining spaces.
Question, so is the stair width factor giving you to the total width of the stair enclosure? Or is it just for half/one run of a stair?
Priscilla Cuadra Let me try to explain this a different way
If you have to steal that is 48 inches wide and you divide that by .3 i.e. the factor get a number of 160. That is the maximum allowable number of persons, allowed to move down those stairs
Can you do the same thing for the door but you use the door factor which is typically .2
the door remember it’s the clear door width not the whole width of the door.
So yes you have a floor and you have two stairs you would divide by two for the two stairs then take the total number of persons and multiply by .3 and that will give you the minimum width of the stair that is required. Remember there’s also minimum code widths for the stair as well
Thank a lot it helps me a lot
Could you please specify the reference table (from the IBC) used to get the number of exits per occupant load ?
Chapter 10. Table 1004.5
I think that the way of thinking is slightly different from the current NFPA 101-2018. What do you think?
no, it is the same. explain your thoughts
I confirmed NFPA 101-2018 and IBC. Bath criteria were about same. There was a different between NET and GROSS, but since major does not change. Therefore, your video is correct, I think. Thank you very much, I'm doing architectural work at US Army Japan. Japanese architects are required not only for building but also knowledge on fire protection and structure. Therefore, many Americans ask us a variety of questions to architects in Japan. We respond instantly as far as Japan's Building Standards Act, but they have many questions about NFPA 101 and IBC. Why do Americans do not know American criteria? When acquiring qualifications, do not you study criteria in the United States?
Is the number of physical exit the same for a sprinkler building.
+Natalie Burgos - - Yes, both in number and width required. Stairs are the same as well width and number. The added benefit of sprinkler building is (height, area and travel distance to an exit)
In the realm of buidling code, I'm trying to determine what is the minimum distance from a exit route to obstructed (materials or equipment) may be placed permanently or temporarily, within the exit route.
+Steven Torres sorry not understanding "realm" for hospitals, I have heard it said 20min's but also if it is wheels then it may be a bit longer. exit width is exit width and that needs to be there always
+Marty Huie Thank you for your reply. I'm trying to figure out what is the acceptable distance i can place materials (i.e. furniture) within the exit route.
+Steven Torres Am I to assume your working in a hospital? if so do you have a categorical waiver to use 2012 LSC? for that is they only way you could do that. Even then if your not a federal facility you would need to get your local fire marshal to agree as well.
All that said, I don't know for I have not tryed to do this yet, for we have not gotten a Waiver for such yet
Thanks again for your feedback!
The concentrated and unconcentrated assembly occ./sf apply to the net floor area; therefore, staircase and other accessory areas should be excluded.
+Oliver Yu agreed, I will say though for quick calculations or documentation with the authority having jurisdiction if those items throw you over your likely going to have issues later in the building
I've had a building were that's what was calculated removing all those items. And then the owner decided to change an area from offices to assembly we had to get really creative i.e. making a horizontal exit
How calculate evaluation time?
as a relates to exiting and healthcare, time is not required. I do know from previous work,, when exiiting off of a train platform or out of an airplane time is a requirement. For healthcare and architectural buildings it is only travel distance and exit inches
Is this New Jersey fire code
This is from there website, so yes, there may be some variations do to the year, what is your question
Welcome to the International Fire Code New Jersey Edition 2006 website. This site has been updated with the 2006 IFC NJ Version errata February 2009.
Nice
is it still 0.2 if one is using m2??
Not sure what is m2, any level exchange exit ie door should use .2 that is the door to a stair or HZ exit or door to the outside. .2 is the number for most codes other than IBC 2003
Just can't understand using inches, As I'm using metric measurements,, thanks for ur videos.
Where I might have used .3 for stairs you would use 7.6 for mm and where I used to .2, you would use 5. Using the inches, where we might have 34 inches required in millimeters it would be 865 mm required. The math would just need to be translated. The idea is exactly the same
There is an error in your video, I don't want others to get confused. From IBC 1005.3.1 stairways must be calculated 0.3" per occupant (0.2" in sprinkled building) and from section 1005.3.2 corridors are doors are calculated 0.2" per occupant (0.15" per occupant in sprinkled buildings)
You are absolutely correct for non-sprinkle building. Those are the numbers. As I've stated in my first video video number one and the introduction video. These are all based on healthcare in understanding the code. Healthcare is a required building to be sprinkled. Therefore, the numbers are correct. And I do not give specific years and or code sections for if you look back in the code. Those numbers also have changed .15 was removed at one point and then replaced back. .2 and .3 have always remained. Additionally, NFPA has modified these numbers from time to time as well. I'm glad you're getting something out of the video for you're able to pick those items up. If nothing else.
So glad you explained this because I had my stairway number as 0.2" and didn't understand why he was using 0.3"